| lobbes: | diana_coman: just to update before I head to sleep: I'm definitely behind a bit with the logger work, but still progressing. I toiled a bit today because the server wasn't accepting connections via port 6667 (for IRC). Turns out it had a firewall already installed (firewalld), yet even after adding the port I still can't establish an IRC connection from the server | [00:25] |
| lobbes: | So tomorrow morning I need to either dig deeper into understanding firewalls and iptable rules (the latter because from what I gather firewalld is just a interface for iptables), or else I just say 'fuck it' and connect the bot to a znc instance instead (since I can set that up to take connections from whatever port). | [00:25] |
| lobbes: | me will look at the above 'either/or' again tomorrow with a fresher mind | [00:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Working on the fleetbot pseudo code article ate up the whole day. I finished a reviewed draft but I don't have time for the 1hr+ wait then review, so i will review tomorrow morning and then pbulish. | [01:01] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (64h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (64h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what's that firewalld? it's first time I hear of it, is that a centos7 thing? ftr on centos6 I always had at most iptables (and at times not even that is really needed, depending on what you want with the machine exactly). | [04:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: pbulish ahead! | [04:50] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (59h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (59h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: meant to say: do speak up if there's any way I can help; journalism is not something I know all that much about but if you think it helps to bounce off some ideas or anything, just speak | [09:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you. | [09:59] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (54h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (54h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Jan-2020#1016182 – alive indeed. yesterday paid off some sleep debt incured friday from svg article, but enjoying the mtn climb today. | [15:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-25 15:51:21 diana_coman: dorion: you alive under that mountain of writing you set for yourself for this weekend? lolz | [15:40] |
| dorion: | indulges impulse to play "country roads" then "rocky mountain high" | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, that's back to 15, lolz | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you around? | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: is that tmsr-os going to cause some more sleep debt today? | [15:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think I have a good handle on it, plus it's not yet 15:00 here. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: while I'm sure that's true, the best answer to that sort of question goes along the lines of "there's still x, y, z to do/at s stage and those should not take more than h hours so that leaves me a buffer of p hours counting from 3pm here to end of day/whatever hour" | [15:58] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I am around now. Sorry about that | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, you have first to answer MP in #t for quite a few things so maybe do that first anyway | [16:12] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: will do | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-26#1016212 << centos7 yeah, and firewalld is apparently a daemon managing firewalls. Though even turning it off doesn't solve the port-being-blocked issue, so I suspect something else is afoot | [16:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 08:42:38 diana_coman: lobbes: what's that firewalld? it's first time I hear of it, is that a centos7 thing? ftr on centos6 I always had at most iptables (and at times not even that is really needed, depending on what you want with the machine exactly). | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | ^^ I had that queued so figured I'd respond now | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: centos 7 already brings in systemd so yeah, expect all sorts; that being said, if it's a virtual machine you have there, iirc on centos there is at times some additional mess with "containers-wtf" so that's another possible addition to your tower of problems. | [16:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm okay, yeah that sounds like it could take me some time to figure out | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you can at least check relatively easily aka simply turn off iptables and firewalld and whatever other firewall you have already and see if that sorts it out at least | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | but dunno, I'd have thought you were trying to keep things *simple* since even then they are enough of a headache | [16:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: turning off firewalld didn't help things, though I didn't try also turning off iptables. I will try that | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: lolz; listen, this is basic: when you want to figure out the culprit, you *walk the whole chain* until you find the exact place; ie sure, start from whichever end but don't do just one thing and then walk away; so: either you turn off one by one *everything if need be* or you start with everything off and then add them back one by one until you find it. | [16:29] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah this makes sense. I was doing the haphazard jumping around thing instead of sane reasoning | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | dunno people, did those jumping arounds *ever* worked for any of you? | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | lozl | [16:30] |
| lobbes: | sometimes my issue is I don't know the whole chain even, but instead of trying to understand the chain I start doing the 'shamanism' | [16:33] |
| lobbes: | *shamanism thing | [16:33] |
| lobbes: | indeed, never works out | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: it's a huge waste of time really, even if it may feel different | [16:34] |
| whaack: | I would say that jumping around is a skill I've mistakenly been honing my whole life. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at least it's a …methodical jumping! | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:35] |
| whaack: | It's an art in and of itself, even if completely misguided. How fast can you bang your head and then find another place to bang your head until you've determined where things are in the room? | [16:35] |
| whaack: | exactly lol | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | gives a whole new meaning to using one's head! | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was it that they didn't have centos 6 anymore or why 7 anyway? | [16:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: honestly I wasn't sure the difference between 6 and 7; I'd never used either | [16:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016223 – thanks. I have the outline done and intro drafted. filling in the remainder of the outline primarily involves gathering the relevant links. I'm aiming to get it done by 18:30 here. then I will take a break for other things from 18:30-20:00 and have 20:00-21:30 as a buffer. aiming to be offline by 21:30 and asleep by 22:00. | [16:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 15:58:41 diana_coman: dorion: while I'm sure that's true, the best answer to that sort of question goes along the lines of "there's still x, y, z to do/at s stage and those should not take more than h hours so that leaves me a buffer of p hours counting from 3pm here to end of day/whatever hour" | [16:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016246 – my favorite hs math teacher had a bullseye on one of his walls with, "bang head here." written on it. lol. | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 16:35:37 whaack: It's an art in and of itself, even if completely misguided. How fast can you bang your head and then find another place to bang your head until you've determined where things are in the room? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: wait, is that the review & plan you are talking about, right? | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | outline + intro fine; how is the filling mainly links though? | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016239 – btw, this is not a problem in itself; if you don't know the whole chain, then you'll discover it by brute force even, if need be, what; sure, ideally you figure out the chain first but if that's a too high step to even start with, then just turn the damn things off ONE BY ONE – you'll still find out more about them that way. | [16:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 16:33:23 lobbes: sometimes my issue is I don't know the whole chain even, but instead of trying to understand the chain I start doing the 'shamanism' | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | there is the fact that on some things nobody really wants to find out all that much, granted; but that's a consideration for an earlier point in this story. | [16:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this makes sense | [17:00] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yes, I'm working on the tmsr os review and plan. the outline is fairly comprehensive, full grammatical sentences, so even that there is more to write, I have a good idea of what's to be said. thus, I anticipate most of the time to be consumed digging out the links to reference what's being said. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: hm, all right. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you provide a table of contents then do it properly and make those items links to the right place in the text. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | don't do things by half, it's ~always a losing strategy. | [17:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Noted, I will fix that right now. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aaargh, do not do the "we send" "we receive" "we …" | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | either own it that you do it or name the code/bot that does it. | [17:21] |
| whaack: | i see the ugliness of that wording. the latter solution makes the most sense to me, the article is supposed to describe what the code does | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how many more lines do you reckon I get to read before I barf again? lolz | [17:27] |
| jfw: | hm, believe I did some of those "we"s in the gbw-node series too | [17:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: probably not many, i can see some lines that will likely cause barfing on their own, and since you're already nauseous.. | [17:31] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: oy, so I went to go disable iptables and it turns out it wasn't even running. Apparently firewalld is a replacement for iptables, not an interface for it like I originally thought. Now I really wish I looked into cent os 7 vs 6 before pulling the trigger on this server | [17:31] |
| lobbes: | In any case now I know that with iptables/firewalld off I still cannot connect via port 6667. | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! you mean to say that since your previous lines already made it hard for poor subsequent lines to be read… | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: iirc your gbw-node series was written more like a walking the reader through the whole thing so possibly the "we" there stood for you-and-reader; it can work in that way if that's indeed how the text is built. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, if you just used it instead to hide behind it then yes, they'll stick out just as annoyingly as whaack's | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: can't they install something else or what's the thing with centos 7? | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | iirc centos 6 is set to vanish this March so myeah, possibly already gone from standard menu. | [17:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, I suppose I could get them to install something else, but I'm not even sure that *is* the problem (though probably is if 7 is systemd). | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | Plus, I'd need to wait for them to provision it, etc. | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | I tend to spin on these 'do I trade time already invested for a chance for saved time in the future' dilemmas | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what are your criteria to decide? | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | because yes, lacking clear criteria, you'll spin, of course, what *else* could you do. | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: is it a physical machine or a vm? | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: physical (rented dedicated server) | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: at any rate, note that this is not about "can't open port so I'll change OS", lolz | [17:44] |
| lobbes: | sure, I took it as "cent os 6 at least has less chance of towers of strange, plus more republican documentation" | [17:45] |
| lobbes: | but indeed, I lack proper criteria here | [17:46] |
| lobbes: | or at least, it isn't loaded in my head right now which I can see is a problem | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do a proper review and update of that article as really, I can't read it. | [17:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | and by review I mean the content too; remember that part with writing something to convey the meaning, not to prove that you actually read it in detail, yes? | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: where /on what did you run this before? | [17:50] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: all the development was on my other server running classic Gentoo | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what is classic gentoo anyway? | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | I have trouble being able to imagine "one" gentoo as such, it's more like shifting sands | [17:51] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thx for pointing out that distinction on the 'we'; not presently sure where my usage falls but will keep in mind | [17:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: eh just Gentoo (I was trying to distinguish from Cuntoo but.. unneeded) | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. as you were commenting on my article I was thinking to myself "well, this is my first time writing an article like this." but it's not, I did a similar article with similar mistakes when I annotated v.py | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what if it were first time even? | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so nothing. my mind was just racing to find a justification for having err'd | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's a justification going to do? | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | (I mean: what *good* is it going to do?) | [17:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: nothing, unless the justification reveals a problem that can be fixed | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, for all I know, you'll likely run into troubles (different set, sure) with centos 6 as well, mainly because of old versions of everything | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | so basically you have 3 (or more) sets of problems to choose from | [17:56] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ah yeah, I do recall your version troubles with cent os 6 while standing up the logbot (which is the base for this bot anyway) | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | your criteria should focus on ~which set of problems is the best choice currently given the whole context | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | thank you, I was about to ask how I should go about the criteria making | [17:58] |
| lobbes: | this makes sense | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: does it? | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the search for justification reveals a problem, certainly, lol | [17:59] |
| lobbes: | I think so. So in other words I need to look at each set and figure out which one I'd rather invest my time in | [17:59] |
| whaack: | lmao | [17:59] |
| lobbes: | I suppose I'd do that by finding the set that has the most 'capped' problems (ones that I can see the solution too at least) | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: eh, you're talking pure theory there | [17:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: absolutely :P | [18:00] |
| lobbes: | well, then perhaps I do not understand. How do I evaluate which set of problems is the best choice ? | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: why talk pure theory, how is that going to help you really? | [18:03] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I don't have much experience, so most of what I have is theory | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | I mean sure, I can let you nod at theory and get on with it | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: that above was the theory of a theory though, lolz; you don't have experience, fine, but ask how to do stuff, don't just nod that it's fine so you can then stare at it all some more (except now with a new theory behind the stare, sure) | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what *are* the existing options anyway, that's where it starts from, practically | [18:05] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is something I do a bit now that you mention it. This nodding along thing. I see what you mean | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | list the options; list your constraints, priorities, burning fires and coming impalements (or similar); since you don't know much about either of them, you'll probably need then to ask people about the corresponding sets of problems, so you'll do that | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | and if you don't want to burn, you'll probably at the very least keep people (the relevant people!) informed too | [18:07] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay. I may make this into a mini-article while I'm at it | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | can't hurt anything for sure | [18:08] |
| lobbes: | that'll also help to keep informed. okay | [18:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: thank you as always | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you're welcome; and if you keep quiet the whole coming week too, you'll have some additional fire coming after you. | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: can the justification-problem be fixed? | [18:10] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I can definitely hear the impalements being sharpened in the distance. I'll make sure to speak up | [18:10] |
| lobbes: | I'm going to step away from the terminal for a bit, but will return to get that options list (and review/plan) out tonight | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | sounds very sensible indeed. | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do search for causes; do not search for justifications. | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow. | [18:13] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (49h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (49h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| dorion: | ffs, the week I decide to write the dealing with death article, the best basketball player/athlete of a generation (who I probably spent days if not weeks watching during my fan years) crashes and burns on a hillside. rip kobe bryant, i suppose I'll reflect on you too in the mix. | [21:28] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (45h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (45h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: whaack: can the justification-problem be fixed? << If you mean can I fix the problem of running to excuses / explanations of why I make mistakes, then yes I certainly hope so. If you mean can my specific justification ('it was my first time!') be something that can be fixed | [22:35] |
| whaack: | fat fingered enter button halfway through typing | [22:36] |
| whaack: | If you mean "can my specific justification ('it was my first time!') be something that can be fixed?" then no, "because it was my first time" is a useless answer to "why did you fuck up?" | [22:38] |
| whaack: | doing a task for the first time is heavily correlated with messing up but it is not the cause itself | [22:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Basketball player maybe. The problem with best athlete is… specialization. See Micheal Jordan's adventures with the Chicago White Sox. | [22:45] |
April 21, 2020
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Jan 2020
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/25/rmd-review-jan-20-24th-202/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 20-24th, 202 | [00:57] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/25/rmd-plan-jan-25th-31st-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Jan 25th-31st, 2020 | [01:19] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (88h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (88h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: add the patch+context to the write-up, sure; re tired, you'll have to figure it out but focused work can do that at times, lol; break/refresh/nap even helps. | [04:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the article is not bad at all; how was it timewise and/or feet dragging-wise? | [05:19] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (83h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (83h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re adding patch+context to write up. as to the tired thing – i did take a break (in the form of a short surf session) and i came back with more energy. I am surprised you'd suggest a nap, i've always considered napping a bad idea that is to be avoided if possible | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why? | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | "if tired then go to sleep" doesn't change just because it's 3 pm or something; sure, a needed nap, not a full-blown siesta or something. | [11:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The main reason is because then one may have trouble falling asleep later | [11:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: also because there's some startup/wind down cost to sleeping, so it's better to do it all in one go | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | but seriously, even at 18, after 6 hours of Uni-level Maths at our prof's rather unrelenting pace (peppered with "this is obvious, won't go in detail, you'll figure it out yourselves in time for the exam), I *needed* 20 minutes nap, lol | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what you are describing is not nap though | [11:59] |
| whaack: | right i am thinking on the 1.5 hour scale not 20 min scale | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | needed nap is exactly that, basically a system shutdown to refresh; fall down and sleep, wake up 15/20 minutes later without any alarm clock or anything. | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | neah, 15-20 minutes thing; it makes though a significant difference. | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | hence my above: *not a siesta*! | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [12:00] |
| whaack: | haha | [12:00] |
| whaack: | i never use alarm clocks, unless i have to catch a flight or something | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | alternatively, you figure out what refresh works best for you, but it has to work and fast enough too. | [12:01] |
| whaack: | i'll give the 20 min nap a shot next time i feel similarly | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | re clocks, what can I say, generally I can rely on internal alarm clock to even wake up within ~5 minutes of desired time but I don't think it's an absolutely needed skill for everyone otherwise, lol. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | really, 5 mins? that is impressive. i don't know much about sleep cycles, but I have a suspicion that it's better to wake up at the moment one wakes up naturally than from an interrupt w/ an alarm clock. So even if I do have an alarm clock set, if I wake up with <1 hour remaining until the target time, I turn off the alarm clock and just get up at that moment. | [12:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For my writeup of the pseudocode I am going to only detail how the bot works on a per-network basis. This is because I am restructuring how I coordinate the orchestra of bots. I will include a section on what went wrong with the current orchestration strategy (each network having their own process) and describe possible solutions + the one i'm going with + why | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: 'twas more of a side effect really, never aimed as such for it or anything of the sort; and sure, it works under normal circumstances (ie it certainly wouldn't have worked – not that I even *tried* it, ffs – when extremely tired as in will fall asleep if I as much as lean on a wall for 1 second). | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds good. | [12:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (78h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (78h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The writeup is looking like it's going to take the better portion of the day, but it has already been a fruitful exercise. There are problems I've discovered from not having fully digested ircbot. | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, sounds exactly as expected :P | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, do it anyway. | [15:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yeah, i expected you had expected this outcome, lol | [15:32] |
| whaack: | and i even bet you're not surprised that i am not surprised that you expected this | [15:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I was pleased with the improvement in the article quality dimension, unfortunately the time wastage did not improve. I find I engaged in various other chats first, which surely could have waited a bit longer, then once started I let it drag on about 3 hours. I recall this being mostly pondering & obsessing & some re-reading & outlining at first, then once I got moving it wasn't so | [15:46] |
| jfw: | bad. | [15:46] |
| jfw: | This then came at the expense of the wallet work time. | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yeah, you need to learn to just get moving; time for pondering is when you go for a walk/set aside time specifically/can't do anything else anyway, that sort of thing but not when you should just start on something; takes some practice though, like everything else. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha; who do you find to do that bet with? :D | [15:50] |
| jfw: | isn't taking the bet | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you alive under that mountain of writing you set for yourself for this weekend? lolz | [15:51] |
| whaack: | xd i found a few fools in my truck full of logs | [15:51] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I expect I'll have plenty more opportunity to practice the just starting. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: certainly; will you take the opportunity to do exactly the just starting though? | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | (and yeah, I noticed and fully appreciated your help yesterday in the logs but it did ring the bell, hence the q today) | [15:54] |
| jfw: | I'll do my best & let it improve from there. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | sounds good. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | I'm limiting my goal for reviews for today to just the wayward December week, as I still have all the usual to finish as well. So it'll be two days of two of those practice opportunities, heh. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | now that's properly setting yourself up at least on the count-your-opportunities side ! | [15:59] |
| jfw: | will be at keyboard but focused elsewhere unless requested. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | perfect. | [16:01] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (73h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (73h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (69h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (69h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Stuck to schedule, except I didn't have time for my Spanish study. For TheFleet I ran into a dead end trying to find a way to reduce the memory my program uses. asdf at a minimum consumes ~25MB. I tried to load asdf -> load my program -> unload asdf, but afaik there's no way to "unload" in CL. On another front, I investigated and discovered the reason for the join/disconnect dance. I was disconnecting becau | [00:58] |
| whaack: | se the servers were sending malformatted irc replies. My bots logic is to reconnect when it hits an error, so it would get stuck in a cycle of connect->disconnect from bad reply->reconnect. Going forward I plan to not reconnect when I receive a malformatted reply. Also, I will put a limit on num reconnects per time window. | [00:58] |
| whaack: | And I read through a good chunk of cl-irc. I was going through some of the utility functions in the code that handle formatting, string parsing, encoding/decodings, etc. That was mind numbingly boring. There were certain large functions/macros that I did not grok and will have to tackle again. Tomorrow I will read more of the high level code. | [01:01] |
| jfw: | facing the puzzle of reporting two fails while not being too hard on self nor being too slow about the reporting. | [01:39] |
| jfw: | first: I'd intended to start before dinner or at least directly thereafter, which didn't happen | [01:41] |
| jfw: | *start writing. I ended up doing first all manner of other things that had been put off – laundry, dishwashing, a phone call home, a walk. (perhaps that displeasure being relative point is proven already! – not that those things are especially displeasurable, in fact some the opposite so idk) | [01:46] |
| jfw: | I did start though and not so late as to be tired, so, second: the log summarizing went poorly. I found myself going back through the text, trying to note each point of conversation briefly yet faithfully. I did not get far at all, by input line count or output word count | [01:54] |
| jfw: | I thought maybe I should instead try to work from memory, but… there's so many unconnected / loosely connected points, I think I'd just end up with some kind of random sample of what happened to stick | [02:00] |
| jfw: | another thought – ignored butterfly perhaps – was to (re)read one of the ossasepia log summary articles to get a better sense of how it could be done | [02:02] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (112h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (112h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Jan-2020#1015980 – this type of situation (too many/too quick reconnects) sounds like something you'd want reported to you/flagged too. | [03:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-24 00:58:41 whaack: se the servers were sending malformatted irc replies. My bots logic is to reconnect when it hits an error, so it would get stuck in a cycle of connect->disconnect from bad reply->reconnect. Going forward I plan to not reconnect when I receive a malformatted reply. Also, I will put a limit on num reconnects per time window. | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Jan-2020#1015984 – ahaha; well, if you get to cleaning ovens, the whole house and start looking for maybe digging as well the garden you don't have, *then* you'll know for sure you're truly avoiding there something! | [03:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-24 01:46:20 jfw: *start writing. I ended up doing first all manner of other things that had been put off – laundry, dishwashing, a phone call home, a walk. (perhaps that displeasure being relative point is proven already! – not that those things are especially displeasurable, in fact some the opposite so idk) | [03:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: summarising is not an easy task at best of times (because it means basically that you fully digested the whole thing and are then able to re-tell any/all of it at whatever level of detail you choose; there's a LOT going on to end up with a good summary, let alone an excellent one) | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | add to that the fact that #t logs are not an easy read either and so take the time to appreciate and enjoy the steps you took on that long road really | [03:43] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it takes time; no, there's no hurry nor pressure on *this* front so don't add it yourself where it doesn't belong | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so listen, do your reading of #t to catch-up and then for writing go ahead with the practice of summarising what you read of #t but *without* pressure on the result being "a faithful summary of all points" or whatever else; let it be exactly a summary of your recollection (if you need to, brand it as such, it's your own blog and you can write there "what happened to stick" too, what!) | [03:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: even better, take the writing on the #t logs as the fun part of the catchup and so write it whichever way you'd like to, be it picking and pointing what you enjoyed reading or poking fun at parts or whatever else! | [03:49] |
| diana_coman: | the log-summary can turn in log-satire even; I'll probably enjoy reading it all the more for that! | [03:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how long do you think it would take you to write down a schema of what your bots/full setup do exactly? e.g. the pseudocode of it all. | [03:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, from the sounds of it, what makes you avoid/postpone/drag your feet there is not perceived difficulty but outright perfectionism getting in the way. | [03:59] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (107h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (107h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| diana_coman: | now why does my blog spam keep asking me -and in Romanian too! – to order birthday cake in Kazan of all places and things to order. | [08:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm not sure, I would say 4-6 hours to be safe. It'd be a good exercise. Though I first want to apply some fixes for the problems discovered during the test run. | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right, apply the fixes first and then schedule somwhere the write-up of what's in there too. | [11:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i scheduled the writeup for tomorrow. i'll try to begin later today though if time permits | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: wait, so are you done with the fixes and otherwise figuring out the cl part and everything else? | [11:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have not applied the fixes, but I have a good idea of what needs to be done and I don't think it will take that long. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [11:36] |
| whaack: | The difficult tasks left are (1) fixing the memory issue, or figuring out a way to sidestep the problem (2) creating the function (get-all-channels-i-am-connnected-to) | [11:36] |
| whaack: | For (2) my plan is to parse the db and determine that we are connected to a channel if a JOINED-CHANNEL row for that channel appeared more recently than the latest DISCONNECTED-FROM-CHANNEL row. The problem with this is that if there is an unclean disconnect, then the function will return false positives. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | jfw: Can you explain, "You'll need to decide whether to apply initial or future rounds of yum updates. " ? | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Would it be an appropriate time to write my own V, and then use it to install items on my new comp? Or should I use an existing tested V and leave the exercise of writing my own for a later time? | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, re that plan on get-all-channels etc – it seems to me you should first set out to write properly your understanding of the whole thing and only then look at that and identify the best way to do what you want done | [11:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok | [11:50] |
| diana_coman: | solving a problem is always a matter of a. properly identifying what the problem IS in the first place b. scoping it out c. figuring out the options to address the problem d. choosing one option (with clear reasons too!) | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | it should never be "oh, this looks like it might solve it, let's go" | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how about manually v-ing for now, it's not like you need a ton of presses of very complicated trees, is it? | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | and damn it, now I really need to recall the name of that rrmartin story. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you are done with reading&understanding that cl part you are using, then write up what you have and then add to it what problems you are trying to solve + what options you see | [11:55] |
| whaack: | it should never be "oh, this looks like it might solve it, let's go" << this gave me a real chuckle | [11:55] |
| whaack: | ^ do you m ean the cl-irc part? | [11:57] |
| whaack: | mean* | [11:57] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: will give it a try with the low-pressure log summary, thanks | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, cl-irc part | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: cool. | [11:59] |
| whaack: | alright, no i am not done reading & understanding it, i will continue today | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: good; that comes first; then the write-up; then decision/discussion; only after all that any implementation. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack | [12:00] |
| jfw: | whaack: re yum updates – Red Hat publishes errata in the form of advisories, updated source RPMs, and binaries for paid customers. CentOS grabs the updated sources, applies the occasional rebranding type patch, and builds their free binary RPMs. These live in a separate "updates" repository while the base repository in theory doesn't change from release time. Sometimes the problems fixed are | [12:23] |
| jfw: | minor; sometimes they're security related; sometimes those might even be exploitable in your usage. Obviously this is not a V-like process, so the decision is necessarily kinda blind: do you trust the old packages with more-known holes or new ones with unknown holes? | [12:23] |
| jfw: | Standard "best practices" in "the industry" based on vendor's advice is to always install updates timely – if you're compromised by known bug it's seen as lazy system administration, whereas if compromised by the inherent bug of 'always take updates' policy then who coulda possibly predicted. | [12:25] |
| jfw: | That clarify the mess at least? | [12:26] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes it does, thank you. | [12:31] |
| jfw: | and would you have anything to add/correct there diana_coman? I recall you distinguish 'updates' from 'patches' but not sure how that works out in CentOS case | [12:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: re CentOS tbh I do not upgrade and that's that; the whole old-holes vs new-holes can easily be stated in quite a few interesting ways (perhaps the most appropriate being the good ol' are you with the party -and so we'll commiserate at your loss though ofc you'll lose- or are you not with the party and so you are to blame for (all) loss(es). | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | re updates vs patches what/where do you mean? | [12:35] |
| jfw: | ah, vpatch vs upgrade was the distinction rather; http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008861 | [12:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:02:55 diana_coman: jfw: out of pure curiosity now: do you find yourself upgrading software much those days? | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate and to state it clearly: it's not that I consider CentOS 6 to be some great OS or anything of the sort. It's just that I don't currently have anything better to put in its place and it is at least not changing aka not creating more work for no reason. | [12:39] |
| jfw: | right. I like the 'party' comparison | [12:45] |
| jfw: | whaack, would you like any more input from me on the CL memory thing or are you set for now with tracking down what the code does and what might be the problem? | [12:48] |
| whaack: | jfw: I would love input on the CL memory problem | [12:48] |
| jfw: | ok, well 25MB supposedly due to asdf is an improvement on 70MB noted previously, do I understand right? | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, your description above was fun to read anyway; my "write it as satire and have fun" earlier was not random either. | [12:49] |
| jfw: | ty diana_coman | [12:49] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes, and that was from running my script with 'sbcl –script my_progam.lisp' (with (require "asdf") as the first line instead of running my script with 'sbcl –load my_program.lisp' (–load automatically loads an init file ) | [12:50] |
| jfw: | whaack: a tricky thing with that 25MB, depending how you're measuring – might not be asdf itself but parts of sbcl that got swapped in to load it (just guessing, I'm not up on sbcl internals), or garbage collection overhead | [12:51] |
| jfw: | one way to look at it though, is that a CL environment is like an operating system in its own right, with memory-resident compiler even | [12:51] |
| jfw: | so the way it 'wants to be used' is with internal scheduling – internal processes/threads or some async thing | [12:53] |
| jfw: | so that overhead is paid once and shared by all processes. Running multiple UNIX processes, as IIRC you're doing, works but is kinda like loading a separate Linux kernel for each shell | [12:54] |
| jfw: | Doesn't this bot support threads? | [12:54] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes. And if I can't reduce the memory overhead I am planning on redesigning the system to run all in one process | [12:56] |
| jfw: | why would that be a 'redesign'? too much state in global variables or something? | [12:57] |
| whaack: | (i meant redesign the system to run in one unix process, still using multiple threads) | [12:58] |
| jfw: | well I guess the way it spawns up bots for the many networks would have to change at least. | [12:58] |
| jfw: | (understood) | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why did you choose separate unix processes vs single process? | [12:59] |
| jfw: | If it really is ASDF eating all that RAM though, the next step on that route could be removing that and explicitly specifying the whole buncha .lisp files to load and in what order, as I think you were planning anyway. | [13:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Two major reasons. One was for fault tolerance, since my program is writing to log files, parsing messages from random networks, etc. I figured there was a lot of opportunity for something to go wrong, and I didn't want a problem with one network crashing all the other networks. | [13:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The second reason is that there is a cap on threads-per-unix-process and web-sockets-per-unix-process. This problem is likely fixable – I believe there are commands / settings I can change to increase these caps. | [13:02] |
| jfw: | 'web-sockets'? O.o | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, for the first reason, if it crashes, it's the code that crashes so the fault is in there and as a result, not much gain from separating. | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | it's not the network that crashes after all, but your code. | [13:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. it's not a great reason. it's similar to the ~ "i'm going to throw this all in a try/catch cuz i can't conceptualize all the things that go wrong" | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, for now do the figuring out and the write up and the problem(s) description + options you see and we'll work out a proper process from there. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | (which I do anyways, surrounding the code that reads messages from the network) | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thing is, they will go wrong whether you conceptualize them or not; and the apparent-defense is worse than no defense in that it masks the problem until it becomes a beast. | [13:08] |
| whaack: | jfw: yup i could figure out the order of the .lisp files, but I think I'm going to pass on that task. and web-sockets i guess is the wrong terminology lol. there's a max number of sockets-per-process | [13:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yup. the reconnect-disconnect dance was an example of a masked problem that bit me | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | myeah. | [13:12] |
| jfw: | whaack: ah ok, saw the dashes and figured those were the literal symbols. There's also a Unix-level limit on file descriptors per process (which category includes sockets): ulimit -n | [13:14] |
| whaack: | jfw: I have to review what a file descriptor is / how "files" work under the hood. My understanding is that there is a table mapping integers to files. The integers in this table are the file descriptors. Files are anything that can be written to or read from. So they can be a block of address space in storage, or a buffer from a connection over a network. | [13:21] |
| jfw: | not a bad approximation; one missing level is the 'open file object'; these can be shared between processes. The file descriptor table is per-process | [13:24] |
| whaack: | did not know the file descriptor table was per process | [13:25] |
| jfw: | 'block of address space in storage' – not if you're thinking of that as a contiguous region on disk, it's more indirect than that, but the kernel presents it as contiguous address space, yes | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (102h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (102h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| whaack: | jfw: ok, i wasn't sure either way | [13:30] |
| jfw: | 'buffer from a connection' – the 'buffer' doesn't quite belong, it's more of an implementation detail. Could be as small as one byte (perhaps on a serial port) | [13:31] |
| jfw: | example of per-process FDs: FD 1 is considered 'standard output'; one process might have it connected to an xterm (via pseudo-tty driver), another to a regular file (as in a shell redirection), another to /dev/tty1, another to /dev/null etc. | [13:34] |
| jfw: | bbl. | [13:36] |
| whaack: | ok ty | [13:37] |
| jfw: | is back btw. | [15:46] |
| whaack: | I am getting an error "Determing IP Information for eth0…" failed. [Failed] after running "service network start" I guess I am missing a driver. My /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 file has the [following contents] [http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=aX_B] | [16:30] |
| whaack: | I also get spammed RTNETLINK answers: File exists | [16:34] |
| jfw: | whaack: I suspect you've got some basics to learn here too. ifconfig and route commands, DHCP | [16:36] |
| whaack: | yes i do | [16:36] |
| jfw: | the sysconfig scripts are fine but merely automate lower level tools that you will still need for figuring out what's going on. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | add 'ping' for sure too, then in the more advanced level of the toolkit there's arp, netstat, tcpdump. Then there's name resolution which is controlled principally by /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf and there's various tools for DNS testing. | [16:43] |
| jfw: | iptables will be a thing to learn about down the line I expect. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | jfw: alright, i will make a note to look into all those tools. for now am I correct in thinking that the error I'm receiving is because I am missing a driver? | [16:52] |
| jfw: | I think not. | [16:53] |
| jfw: | ifconfig will have the answer to that though. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | wishes he had man pages | [16:54] |
| jfw: | lol. well there's man pages online. Or on your mac, though there are slight differences. | [16:55] |
| whaack: | lol the man pages on the mac are dangerous! i got tripped up by a slight difference for some command a while back | [16:56] |
| whaack: | (specifically: the mac man page for crontab doesn't mention that crontab will fail if the crontab file doesn't have a newline at the end, nor does the tool give a warning.) | [16:57] |
| whaack: | the result from ifconfig brings up eth0 with RX: packets:3259, so it looks like there is some life there, i will invsestigate | [16:59] |
| jfw: | possibly very simple problem: did you try 'service network restart' ? perhaps it was already working but the scripts don't detect the double-start? | [17:01] |
| whaack: | yeah i did try that | [17:02] |
| whaack: | looks like the problem is with dhclient not being able to get an ip address. the output from "ip link" and "mii-tool" makes me believe i am connected to my router | [17:34] |
| jfw: | First base to cover is whether it's even expected to get one, i.e. that the router is serving DHCP. I would imagine so if it's a typical home setup. | [17:36] |
| jfw: | Next, you could run dhclient in the foreground to see its output (would also go to syslog normally but uncertain as yet that you have that captured) | [17:36] |
| jfw: | re 'makes me believe', I'm less familiar with the 'ip' suite, it's a newer linuxism; the expected ifconfig output would include UP and RUNNING. Also worth checking for blinky lights on the network port. | [17:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: lights are blinky. dhclient eth0 -d gives me a few "DHCPDISOCVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 7 (xid=0x1745f5ef) lines, and then No DHCPOFFERS received. | [17:45] |
| whaack: | I went to my router's page and I believe it is servering dhcp | [17:46] |
| jfw: | well, we could rule out DHCP problems for now by manually setting an otherwise unused IP/mask in the correct subnet and see if router pings | [17:50] |
| jfw: | hm, I'm also recalling that centos has some firewall rules enabled by default, though not especially strict. Possibly SELinux too | [17:52] |
| jfw: | on the former, 'iptables -F' should flush all the rules until next boot; on the former, check 'getenforce', either Disabled or Permissive is ok | [17:55] |
| whaack: | jfw: I set a static ip address and ran "ping 192.168.1.1" then I got "from 192.168.1.9 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable" for four lines and then after ping: sendmsg: No buffer space avaialable | [17:59] |
| jfw: | the no buffer space thing is odd, does make me wonder about the driver or hardware. Maybe do some looking through dmesg for clues related to eth0 | [18:04] |
| jfw: | anyone else watching have ideas at this point? I'm running low | [18:04] |
| whaack: | I see "eth0: no IPv6 routers present" in dmesg | [18:10] |
| jfw: | that's normal (for an ipv6-loaded kernel) | [18:13] |
| jfw: | something in there should name the chipset/driver which could be an avenue of research. | [18:15] |
| jfw: | I'm going afk; might be one of those times to break on this, do more reading, come back later with fresh mind | [18:17] |
| whaack: | getenforce was set to Enforcing, I Switched it to Permissive and restarted my connection, but that did not help | [18:17] |
| whaack: | yup i'm going to put this down until tomorrow | [18:17] |
| whaack: | thanks for the suggestions | [18:17] |
| jfw: | ahh ok. Well that'll avoid other troubles at any rate. | [18:17] |
| jfw: | iirc 'setenforce' writes to filesystem and so is persistent across boots | [18:18] |
| jfw: | and you're welcome. | [18:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (97h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (97h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (93h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (93h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Not too productive a day. I felt quite tired starting around 3:30pm, not sure why – i've been getting 8h+ sleep consistently. (minus the night of the fiesta, but that was almost a week ago) Anyways, I went through more of the cl-irc source. I am fairly certain I found a bug pertaining to handling unknown replies from the server. A simple patch should make my bot gracefully ignore+log a message that it can't parse inste | [23:11] |
| whaack: | ad of disconnecting the nick that received the message from all its channels. | [23:11] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: Completed my saltmine hours, and did my writing / Spanish study. I went a little under time on the 2h i had dedicated to 'setting up my computer.' Tomorrow I will publish a plan for setting up software on my new machine. | [00:16] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-22#1015820 << to update, I got this straightened out. At least they were quick about it | [00:31] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 23:30:28 lobbes: At least it is almost start of business in Malaysia so I ought to be able to get a hold of a human soon.. ugh | [00:31] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (136h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (136h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015809 – what doubts exactly? spell them out, maybe there is something to them or maybe it highlights a different trouble. | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 20:38:17 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015800 – I have my doubts but maybe I'll try it some time. | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015811 – ah, the way you said it earlier it sounded like you did precisely some #t catchup; don't you have exactly that in plan somewhere too anyway/ | [03:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 20:46:09 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015801 – while I read some #t log following a reference, I did not do the methodical catchup that was planned. Thus I did not have log to summarize today so returned to previous article plans. (Or am I misunderstanding that summary assignment?) | [03:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 17:47:49 jfw: I find I was not very productive yesterday. While I got a fair amount of reading in, I believe I used this in part as avoidance of getting started on writing; then there was stupidity worshipping in the same vein; and snowballing by not wanting to admit failure there thus not getting to other priorities either. | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015817 – glad to hear it; but myeah, that's exactly the sort of expected nonsense otherwise. | [03:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 00:31:08 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-22#1015820 << to update, I got this straightened out. At least they were quick about it | [03:46] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-21 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-20#1951637 – ugh, I have them on my list & contacted them via email but they must-account (though they did at least say they weren't all that bothered about actual address iirc). | [03:46] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 23:30:28 lobbes: At least it is almost start of business in Malaysia so I ought to be able to get a hold of a human soon.. ugh | [03:46] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (131h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (131h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: trying to spell out that doubt then – I would not be "fooled" by setting up task B: I'd know it's a ploy to make task A seem more attractive by comparison; or if I did see B as truly urgent, I'd end up all the more glum for having both on the plate but not touch A because B was more important. | [11:15] |
| jfw: | and yes, catchup is a big thing in the plan. | [11:18] |
| dorion: | jfw how goes today ? | [12:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, you don't seem to quite get the idea though: it's not even meant to "fool", no, and it's not about more important either. | [12:21] |
| dorion: | jfw putting a bit of our phone call last night in public, your last couple updates read to me like you're being a bit hard on yourself. | [12:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 17:47:49 jfw: I find I was not very productive yesterday. While I got a fair amount of reading in, I believe I used this in part as avoidance of getting started on writing; then there was stupidity worshipping in the same vein; and snowballing by not wanting to admit failure there thus not getting to other priorities either. | [12:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:31:43 jfw: I also let myself get worked up / stressed yesterday from being again behind on my plan. And hesitated to speak up along the way because of… perhaps some shame at how slow things were going plus a vain hope that I'd somehow still get it all in. | [12:22] |
| dorion: | I don't question that you're being honest, but seems like your focusing too much on the struggles and losing sight of the big picture. | [12:22] |
| dorion: | people are still getting caught up with what you've published these last months and you still have gems yet unpublished, e.g. gales scheme. | [12:22] |
| dorion: | I read the wtf part of diana_coman's comment to me about stressing meaning everyone here ought to take it into consideration. | [12:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:58:18 diana_coman: no need to *get to the stress* even, wtf. | [12:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: *are* you getting all that glum there? | [12:23] |
| dorion: | there's a mountain range of work for everyone here that's going to take months and years to get through and you can't expect to be on 100 every week/day/hour/minute. | [12:24] |
| dorion: | so try on being patient and shift to setting yourself up so that if you don't wanna do xyz or one day, do abc to make the day positive and keep yourself positive and not stressed and come back to xyz when ready. if that means xyz is going to miss your estimate, talk about it, change the estimate if needed, calm yourself and get to it. | [12:24] |
| dorion: | also, you're often more ready than you think you are, the mind can play tricks and quiets down once you actually start. | [12:25] |
| dorion: | in various performances they call it butterflies, sports is what I'm most familiar with. you're in your head imagining the game before you're in it and can get off to a shaky start. but once you settle into the game you stop thinking about it and find the flow. | [12:25] |
| dorion: | fin | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: listen to your manager there! | [12:25] |
| dorion: | and serendipitously | [12:26] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-01-23 mircea_popescu: being smart and having interesting work are the only cure to writer's block yet found or ever liable to be known | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | also, valid for everyone really: while I do pay attention to you to figure out way more than you say, it *does* work way better and it does help *a lot* if you actually provide feedback too rather than waiting for me to know it all. | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | needs to go but will be back later to add to this. | [12:29] |
| dorion: | diana_coman plus the opportunity cost of you reading between the lines saves your cycles for even higher quality feedback/insights. | [12:30] |
| dorion: | hasta luego. | [12:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015845 – part of his strong arm is seeing negatives/mitigating risks – doesn't mean he hasn't helped me see positives where I was focusing on negatives – but sometimes he expects from his weak arm feats his strong arm can do. | [12:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:23:01 diana_coman: jfw: *are* you getting all that glum there? | [12:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015515 – pretty much hits the nail on the head. back in 2015 I was reading the logs knowing it was important but drinking through a fire hose barely knowing wtf was going on. our friendship gained momentum by going for golden hour walks where he'd explain wonders like static linking to me, lol. | [12:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:49:42 diana_coman: I guess dorion goes for the scan, you go for the deep dive, on average it balances out all right over some cervezas or something, there's that possibility too. | [12:46] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015493 – the mentions are a starting point to cut to the chase. if ~others~ think you've missed important context, I'm sure they'll link you. | [12:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:35:40 jfw: dorion suggested prioritizing that by search for mentions. I suppose I've hesitated on that too because I worry I'd still miss too much context | [12:50] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (126h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (126h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015858 – linked at the root with not being all that comfortable with handling uncertainty | [15:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:38:26 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015845 – part of his strong arm is seeing negatives/mitigating risks – doesn't mean he hasn't helped me see positives where I was focusing on negatives – but sometimes he expects from his weak arm feats his strong arm can do. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015862 – dorion do note though that this has its downside too in that you are shifting some costs on those others and taken to that extreme as a usual thing it's not a great thing either. | [15:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:50:24 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015493 – the mentions are a starting point to cut to the chase. if ~others~ think you've missed important context, I'm sure they'll link you. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | as everywhere, some balance works better really | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what was your writing/reading plan today and how did that go? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015837 – to flesh this out some more: dragging your feet on getting started on something is still a signal (others call it at times laziness, plenty of ways to call it too) | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:21:51 diana_coman: jfw: hm, you don't seem to quite get the idea though: it's not even meant to "fool", no, and it's not about more important either. | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-05 16:08:46 diana_coman: laziness is essentially just a signal like many others. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | if you interpreted that as simply "I hate what I need to do for this" | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | rather than "I need to sort out something else first in order to be able to start on this" | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | then the answer to that is a straightforward escalation without any pretense | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | perceptions/projections of the sort "I don't like it" are relative, there's no escape to that part | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | hence the if you don't like that, here's worse so that you'll like it | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | it is true however that the above will work *only* if you interpreted the signal correctly in the first place | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | so indeed if you got that initial part wrong, then the problem is different and therefore the solution to it will be different too | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hence, it's worth indeed to have first another open minded look at the signal, sure; so – what is it you got stuck on? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | (re "ploy" and all that, note that there's no fooling, just using the existing mechanism quite on purpose; if you want a practical example of that, do that simple experiment with temperature: get some water at room temperature, some hotter and some colder; keep for a while one hand in the cold water, one in the hotter; then put both (one at a time for less confusing direct reading) in the room temperature water and see how one … | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | … reports it "cold" and the other "warm" – while you even know why and how and everything, did the hands get "fooled" or not? the perception is what it is and gets reported as such regardless of what higher-level thinking says) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | the above could be again restated as the older "get over yourself", sure, but I think it's way better to get *on with* yourself simply. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why /since when does blogging *require* emacs? | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well of course blogging does not require emacs explicitly…but it requires some editor and that is my editor of choice | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | also, it doesn't even require a graphics stack but if you mean for pictures, then at least add to the list imagemagick or gimp or feh – whatever you plan to use to process the pictures. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that may be, but not a reason to mix up the enumeration like that; make up your mind whether you enumerate the *sort of things you need* or your particular preferences and stick to it for the whole of one sentence at least ffs. | [16:13] |
| whaack: | ok noted, that was lazy writing | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | it is; and it makes for nauseous reading. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re guide for installing on centos, the fedora guide is closest basically. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | at which point I realise I never got to write-up the notes re client on centos, huh. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015869 – right you are. to be clear, I didn't mean it should be a habit, but worth testing out as a starting point for the sake of getting caught up this time. the read every #o line was a point that blocked him from submitting back in october and I don't think he, and perhaps anyone else, regrets he didn't get 100\% context. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 15:33:52 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015862 – dorion do note though that this has its downside too in that you are shifting some costs on those others and taken to that extreme as a usual thing it's not a great thing either. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | I also said it knowing him and that he would still get context around those mentions. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | yes, he needs to practice some lighter first-pass too, for sure | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re installing an image processor. I plan to install a graphics stack. I will need it for eulora anyways. We discussed this prior. | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 16:37:46 diana_coman: whaack: for reading blogs you wouldn't need graphics absolutely, no; that being said though, you DO need ONE station with graphics, lol | [16:21] |
| whaack: | and okay for eulora I will start with the fedora guide | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: btw, it was a pleasure to read your answer; and yes, you certainly and visibly are growing into the roles indeed; there is some more to be said on the integration part, hopefully we'll get to that soon/in a few days too. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | (sadly not today though, sorry.) | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: Sunday the 27th though doesn't fit my calendar though, lol; you did this in the plan/review before so maybe check your calendar mon/sun thing; it's either Sunday 26th or Monday 27th, isn't it. | [16:31] |
| jfw: | caught up here, contemplating | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: take your time, I'll be around for quite a while still. | [16:33] |
| jfw: | dorion: appreciated both the call and the approx. restatement now for closer consideration. | [16:34] |
| dorion: | diana_coman fuck, lol. and you're right it's the second time in as many weeks. i miscounted in head calendar rather than issuing April 2020 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30. sunday the 26th it'll be. |
[16:40] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015843 – as I understand it, stress is an effect, not cause – reducing it involves reasonable expectations & plans, working productively, and communicating | [16:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:22:59 dorion: I read the wtf part of diana_coman's comment to me about stressing meaning everyone here ought to take it into consideration. | [16:40] |
| jfw: | (not meaning to imply you said otherwise, just stating my own thinking there) | [16:41] |
| jfw: | so I guess what gets to me is that I'm trying to do all those and still dropping things | [16:43] |
| jfw: | not expecting to hit 100\% every day, but it's been more like two weeks at 50\% and was shaping up to be a third | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you count in there the fact that "trying to do all those" is currently yet-another-something-new and therefore a *task* in itself that you are taking on? | [16:44] |
| jfw: | hah, I suppose not | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, lack of practice with failure can at times bite too, lolz. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but more to the point here, there is that set yourself up for best results at all times, it's possible, worth it and no shame at all, quite the opposite. | [16:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 14:16:13 diana_coman: whaack: hm, you'll have to ask a better question really; exactly as it says: how you set yourself up in/for a situation does matter too. | [16:47] |
| jfw: | re failure – oh I've had practice, but perhaps was rusty! http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015845 – not too much thus far, I'm still getting back up to try again, and aware I'm getting plenty done still | [16:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:23:01 diana_coman: jfw: *are* you getting all that glum there? | [16:49] |
| jfw: | For today I decided to start with something lighter and try writing later (just not all-the-way-later like previously) | [16:50] |
| jfw: | got through a couple days of my #t backlog so I suppose I can do a summary on that | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what/where/why are you stuck with the writing now though? | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | aha; is that a problem / not something you want to start on either or what? | [16:51] |
| jfw: | I'm not certain I am stuck now. Yesterday there was the photo-pile as discussed | [16:52] |
| jfw: | which "that" – the reading or the summarizing? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | for that you'll just have to budget somewhere explicitly "filter photos" , there's no way around it ever ; but it doesn't have to count as "writing" since it's not really, either. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: both/whichever is a problem, lol | [16:53] |
| jfw: | the reading doesn't seem to be a problem, it had just kept getting pre-empted. Hence starting with that today.' | [16:53] |
| jfw: | as to summarizing – well I'll find out soon | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, all right then; and yeah, switch things around during the day if/when/as needed, what; that being said – hm, wasn't it supposed to be jfw-on-irc from about 7 utc rather than 8? lolz. | [16:55] |
| jfw: | I'll get back on that. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | also, how is that older getting back to daylight schedule and proper sleep at night? | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | didn't dig out the link for ref but it's in one of your plans/reviews of last year. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ is for you. | [16:57] |
| jfw: | Went well enough at that time; travel threw it off and been slowly recovering from there | [16:58] |
| jfw: | well not much at first, perhaps firefighting-mode. But more recently improving. And at least not my previous tendency to push it further. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it did seem to be off again, hence my question really; but if you say you are aware and moving it in the right direction, good. | [17:00] |
| jfw: | (ah, not fire-fighting entirely too, there were a number of late nights out) | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: does this explanation make sense to you? | [17:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 15:46:28 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015837 – to flesh this out some more: dragging your feet on getting started on something is still a signal (others call it at times laziness, plenty of ways to call it too) | [17:01] |
| jfw: | It signals that there's, how would you say it… unmet prerequisites for doing the thing? | [17:02] |
| jfw: | well that's one possibility at least and one needs to ask questions to understand the signal | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: in a very broad sense for "prerequisites", yes; but figuring out what sort those are is pretty much the key and in some cases they can simply be of the sort "this *seems* too ugly/difficult/I-don't-like-it" | [17:04] |
| jfw: | right, dorion's butterflies | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | yes but you know, each with their own species of butterflies, lolz | [17:08] |
| jfw: | and some migratory too no doubt. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | that can be I guess though I can't say I saw much of that; it's more the other way around if anything – ie ignoring your own because it works for another to ignore his might backfire (because not quite the same otherwise, eh) | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the work on the wallet thing going this week? | [17:11] |
| jfw: | know thy own butterflies then. | [17:11] |
| jfw: | Wallet's going pretty well | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to hear it and no reason for glum then, that's both a crucial and not-easy part! | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | indeed re butterflies, since they are part of you and still best to get along very well with yourself, lol. | [17:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 16:00:42 diana_coman: the above could be again restated as the older "get over yourself", sure, but I think it's way better to get *on with* yourself simply. | [17:14] |
| jfw: | the 2x time estimate factor I put in since initial plan has indeed been needed so far, and some time goes to reviewing the code & fixing minor mistakes, but no major problems come up yet. | [17:15] |
| jfw: | agreed on best to get along with oneself! | [17:15] |
| jfw: | from earlier: the water temperature perception example makes sense: the different levels of thinking | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: to add something concrete, I'm known to have taken the time (not all that little either though very concentrated) while otherwise drowning in 1001 ugly and complicated things to do, to …translate a whole poem; the thing is – I needed that as disconnect and once I got that out, I worked better on the rest as well. | [17:26] |
| jfw: | Not a short poem either I see. Interesting | [17:30] |
| dorion: | ofc, I now recall that trilema about butterflies, lmao. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, appropriate. | [17:36] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (121h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (121h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:29] |
| whaack: | trinque: I have a problem with my bot's sbcl process using too much memory. I noticed that loading quicklisp alone puts ~70MB of junk in the environment. So I am considering avoiding quicklisp attempting to load ircbot, cl-irc, and all subsequent dependencies using a series of calls to the (load "/path/to/file.lisp") function. I learned | [18:36] |
| whaack: | about the function (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file) . This prints out the paths to all the files loaded in the dependency tree. I ran (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file) after running (ql:quickload :fleetbot) (which depends on cl-irc, cl-postgres, ircbot, and postmodern.) I saw many paths in the manifest file that were not part of fleetbot's dependency tree. It seems quicklisp loads everything in local-projects by default. This may be what | [18:36] |
| whaack: | constitutes the '70MB of junk.’ Anyways, I have not yet found a way to load only what I need from the manifest file. So I’m currently planning on purging my quicklisp dir so it only contains the source necessary for loading fleetbot. If you have any other suggestions on how to reduce my program’s memory footprint, please let me know. | [18:36] |
| jfw: | whaack: oh hey I had left a comment re that: should be able to skip quicklisp altogether by using asdf directly | [18:43] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm i missed it, where is the comment? | [18:45] |
| jfw: | ztkfg, on your latest | [18:46] |
| whaack: | ah okay, i was looking for it on the above linked article, alright I'll look into using asdf directly | [18:47] |
| jfw: | background, in particular http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-04-01#1444010 | [19:31] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-04-01 phf: really, asdf lets you do "load all my source" quite trivially as long as you packed it into a package ahead of time | [19:31] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-04-01 asciilifeform: it is solved by ~not doing it~ | [19:31] |
| whaack: | argh it looks like asdf is the memory hogging culprit, not quicklisp itself | [20:31] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (117h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (117h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Comp build was a success, but it ate into TheFleet time. I did my writing prep for tomorrow, but did not complete my Spanish study / 1hr reading session. I will do a little of both before going to sleep. | [01:02] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (160h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (160h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, read the log on the os install adventures. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you finish that mpwp bot prep that was due yest iirc? | [04:20] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (155h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (155h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: It is moving along but no, not 100\% done yet. | [10:14] |
| lobbes: | I kept running into oddities relating to my newer version of mysql on the production box (subtly different sql syntax, having to detect and then turn off the various shiny new 'features' that were causing errors). Managed to figure it out though and now I got an instance of mp-wp and the bot running on target machine. | [10:14] |
| lobbes: | Still need to start testing (which includes testing the archived log dump i give MP) though. | [10:14] |
| lobbes: | bbl, mines | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | hopefully you did document/ keep notes re those tweaks required for different mysql versions. | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahahah, I do hope you wrote that to el torero escamillo! | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, it might make better Spanish practice than becky g, lolz. | [12:12] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (150h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (150h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha no, it was written inbetween watching videos of matadors getting gor'd. | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: see, learn to set yourself up better, what. | [13:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: not sure I understand what you mean ^ | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, you'll have to ask a better question really; exactly as it says: how you set yourself up in/for a situation does matter too. | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | (yes, I had a laugh but still, there is something to it too). | [14:16] |
| whaack: | ah okay the confusion was that i thought you were addressing my point of watching videos of the matadors getting gor'd. I started the article writing in my more common reflection style "why was I this stupid?" but then decided I wanted to write something different than usual. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, addressing the difference between choosing matadors getting gor'd vs el torero escamillo, you know? and it goes further than just the music/video or the writing or this specific instance even. | [14:20] |
| whaack: | alright. i see some similarities even between choosing to go in the bull ring and choosing to watch a matador getting gor'd. essentially they are both base activities that appear appealing/exciting that others are eager to draw you into (whether the others are 'amigos' or youtube's algo.) | [14:31] |
| diana_coman: | while searching for that php bug thread, I found the pickpocket thread I couldn't find yesterday. | [14:32] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-03-21 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-21#1903897 -> expert pickpocket is first of all expert in choosing victim; that being said, in Bucharest it was the 601 bus (always overflowing) and/or buses/trams from the North Station (bc. people with luggage in a hurry to get on the bus); this doesn't mean that it's not obvious and avoidable but assuming you want to bait them for the xp, those are easy spots. | [14:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:45:24 diana_coman: what BingoBoingo says above ; but more to the point: pickpockets do not randomly choose targets (or they won't last long really) | [14:32] |
| diana_coman: | dunno, if you wanted to watch something getting gor'd, I'd have say at least go for the bull getting it, not the matador, you see? | [14:37] |
| dorion: | lol. | [14:38] |
| diana_coman: | but yes, whenever you "go with the flow" set generically like that, you are pretty much going into a ~trap by definition; going with the flow can be fine but only *after* you know it so well that you go more into/out of it as you wish rather than being carried on/by it. | [14:39] |
| whaack: | lol well the process was -> Hm after frantically running from a bull I wonder how professionals deal with them -> Searches "Expert Matador" -> Youtube returns "Watch Matador get killed by bull!" -> Oh that's interesting, watches video | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah, is that "expert" you think? | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | lmao | [14:40] |
| whaack: | also watched, "bull jumps into stands and chases crowd!" | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: despite the toreador + name, the whole carmen is usually performed in French. | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol! why u so focused on the wrong side!! | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | I'd have thought you had enough live experience with that part too. | [14:42] |
| whaack: | lol i watched both. and i enjoyed seeing a matador gracefully handle a bull. i could see how one could get into watching the sport. | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | well, anything *well done* can be beautiful to watch, sure. | [14:44] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for the tip. downloaded, but waiting for lolz to subside prior to listening. | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | np; and not like there's any rush with that or anything. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | since I'm at it and specifically re escamillo part, my recommendation would be to find it sang by nicolai ghiaurov. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | for the female side I'm partial to angela gheorghiu (and she has excellent diction) but then she's Romanian :p | [15:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks! I still have a lot of training of the french, yet. | [15:16] |
| jfw: | I find I was not very productive yesterday. While I got a fair amount of reading in, I believe I used this in part as avoidance of getting started on writing; then there was stupidity worshipping in the same vein; and snowballing by not wanting to admit failure there thus not getting to other priorities either. | [17:47] |
| jfw: | Today I haven't published either: I gathered and sorted through my vacation photos, culling from 707 down to 317, but this took quite some time and now I must return to the other work. | [17:50] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (145h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (145h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, one way to make all that avoidance work for you is to set it up explicitly (need to do task A you hate? cool, set up task B that you hate even more!) | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | but anyway, why didn't you make the summary of what you read? | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | re photos, the culling will have to end up in that bucket of "either it gets done within this much SET time or ALL of them get published ffs"; ofc, it helps if you choose that set time wisely but anyways, can't then spend a day picking photos either. | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | (I'll admit though that the filtering-cost is one reason why I tend to take few photos rather than many; on top of a whole pile of other reasons but anyways.) | [19:08] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-22#1015774 << I did! Very detailed notes I'm happy to report. | [19:37] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 14:18:04 diana_coman: hopefully you did document/ keep notes re those tweaks required for different mysql versions. | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | Of course now Shinjiru is pulling some shenanigans. They "suspended" my service for nonpayment even though my payments to them have been automatic each month and I have the receipt that I indeed already paid for January… I responded to the email saying "wtf" which… created a ticket which since their offices were closed couldn't be handled! | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | At least it is almost start of business in Malaysia so I ought to be able to get a hold of a human soon.. ugh | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | bbl food | [19:41] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015800 – I have my doubts but maybe I'll try it some time. | [20:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 19:04:59 diana_coman: jfw: heh, one way to make all that avoidance work for you is to set it up explicitly (need to do task A you hate? cool, set up task B that you hate even more!) | [20:38] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015801 – while I read some #t log following a reference, I did not do the methodical catchup that was planned. Thus I did not have log to summarize today so returned to previous article plans. (Or am I misunderstanding that summary assignment?) | [20:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 19:05:17 diana_coman: but anyway, why didn't you make the summary of what you read? | [20:46] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (141h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (141h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Jan 2020
| whaack: | jfw: Hm yeah, I don't plan to switch languages mid project. That said maybe I'll try using your client when I setup my new comp | [00:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I went overtime on the Panama article / computer planning so I did not make too much distance with TheFleet (I created an outline for a plan article.) I did about 30 minutes of reading and no Spanish. The computer planning article will be published early tomorrow, it just needs a final review. Then after I publish the compl plan article I'm going to get right ahead to using it and build the machine. | [00:42] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (184h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (184h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re computer sounds fine. | [04:15] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (179h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (179h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| whaack: | dorion: reading your article w/ all its double rainbows, cigars and suits on the beach, exotic drinks, and surfing was a nice way to start my day | [12:15] |
| whaack: | and btw, i think i'm going to visit Panama again in 3 months for my next visa run. there are some flights from Liberia (shaves a cool 6-10hrs off the trip each way) I can get if I don't buy the tickets last minute | [12:32] |
| dorion: | whaack cheers x 2! | [12:33] |
| dorion: | whaack i did have fun writing the article, so glad you enjoyed reading. | [12:49] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (174h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (174h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| whaack: | so it looks like i was mistaken in thinking i need an auxillary power cable for the PCIe slot graphics card. Am I correct in thinking that it's possible the 8 pin 'CPU' power supplies power to the PCIe slot as well? | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: quite the whirlwind of fun in hawaii by the sounds of it, good for you! | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why don't you check the spec for your components, it should say exactly, no? | [16:02] |
| whaack: | is checking | [16:05] |
| whaack: | yes it must, because there is no listed connector for the PCIe auxiliary cable | [16:07] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, now back to the whirlwind of fun here :) | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, the whirlwind-you is welcome of course but otherwise here things be of the boring type! | [16:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:46:29 diana_coman: jfw: glad to know it! only boring stuff around here really, testing, going to sleep when tired, speaking up when needing to communicate, seriously, boring. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw that part with the "1 week sleep deprivation" terrible exercise got me laughing the most | [16:16] |
| billymg: | whaack: i think they are different cables/connectors, though both are 8-pin and look very similar. i would research a bit more what's coming out of your PSU before attempting to connect it to the PCIe card | [16:16] |
| billymg: | it's been a while since i've messed with any heavy duty video cards though, my most recent FX build has a dinky GPU that's powered only by the slot itself | [16:17] |
| whaack: | billymg: ^ right, my q was whether or not the GPU was powered by the slot itself, and that is the case | [16:18] |
| billymg: | ah ok | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: your question was not that clear as you just stated above though, ugh. | [16:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I didn't format the question as "can the GPU be powered by the slot itself"? Because I thought that on other motherboards the auxillary PCIe power cable plugged into the motherboard and thus the GPU still would get its power through the PCIe slot. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | iirc at least some higher end GPUs might need the auxiliary PCIe cable as they basically don't get enough power just through the slot | [16:22] |
| whaack: | i see, so the cable would plug directly into the GPU | [16:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: From what I understand if the GPU needs it. Usually there will be a place to plug a cable. Otherwise many GPUs can get all the power they find useful from the slot. | [16:57] |
| whaack: | successfully made it to the bios. CPU Freq: 4k MHz, Mem Frequency : 1.6kMHz, Mem Size: 16,384MB, CPU Temp: 40-50 C, both hard drives detected | [17:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Congrats | [17:24] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (169h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (169h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:29] |
| whaack: | BingoBoing: thx! | [18:39] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo* | [18:39] |
| whaack: | installing centos6 with sha256sum = 422af57b493b8af49d485885a730c5a1d955f803fac85aa51311c393168b9080 atm | [18:40] |
| jfw: | whaack: from the remote hash table of I take it this is CentOS-6.9-x86_64-minimal.iso | [18:46] |
| whaack: | yes | [18:46] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm, i am prompted the q what type of media contains the installation image. my options are: "Local cd/dvd, hard drive, nfs directory, URL" I am installing off a usb, not quite sure what to pick. | [18:51] |
| whaack: | (looks like hard drive was the right choice) | [18:55] |
| jfw: | woulda been one of the first two for sure. | [19:03] |
| whaack: | yeah my guess was local cd/dvd, but that was wrong | [19:04] |
| whaack: | weird, the install failed, and now it wont let me boot from the usb again | [19:12] |
| whaack: | (error was "an error was encountered while formatting device / format failed: 1") | [19:13] |
| whaack: | now i have the option to boot from the SSD from the failed install, but it just takes me to a blinking cursor screen | [19:21] |
| jfw: | hah, did you fdisk the usb drive instead of the ssd like everyone seems to do these days? | [19:22] |
| jfw: | ( http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014943 ) | [19:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 12:57:16 dorion: lobbes thanks for the updates, glad you're making progress. one point I'll alert you on is when you get to partitioning the disk with the installer, double check which /dev/sdX is the install media and which is the internal, target disk. | [19:23] |
| whaack: | jfw: lol i think i set those right…but looks like maybe not | [19:24] |
| jfw: | strange error though, why would something be trying to format a device while booting | [19:26] |
| jfw: | oh possibly I misread and that was from when the install failed; in that case got any more detail on "wont let me boot from the usb"? | [19:28] |
| jfw: | but yeah first suggestion is to sanity-check the usb from other machine, rewrite the .iso if needed | [19:29] |
| whaack: | jfw: so when I first booted from the usb all I did was plug in the USB and turn on the machine, and it took me right to the centos6 installer | [19:29] |
| whaack: | now it takes me to a blinking cursor page. I did sanity-check the usb and rewrote the .iso, but i'm getting the same problem | [19:30] |
| jfw: | ah so you had it too easy the first time :) Found how to get to the BIOS boot menu? | [19:30] |
| whaack: | i will triple-sanity check rn though, because a botched usb is the only thing that makes sense | [19:31] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes I can get to the BIOS boot menu, but within there i have no option to select the usb | [19:31] |
| jfw: | dare I ask, is there UEFI involved here? | [19:31] |
| whaack: | There's Boot Mode Selection, with three options, "UEFI and Legacy" "Legacy Only" "UEFI Only" . right now "UEFI and Legacy" are selected | [19:33] |
| jfw: | oof, so 10x the potential problems then. IIRC (possibly from spyked's research) there's no clearly established meaning to any of those choices. I'd expect "legacy only" would be most promising | [19:35] |
| whaack: | derp, my problem may have been a mechanical error. i have one of those shit usbs that can hide their head like a turtle. so i may have retracted the head when i thought i plugged it in | [19:38] |
| whaack: | alright here we go round 2, this time running "install or update an existing system" instead of the "install system with video driver" option | [19:40] |
| whaack: | hm. now i'm given 4 options for the q: 'what partition and directory on that partition holds the installation image for centos?: /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, /dev/sdb1, /dev/sdc1' | [19:42] |
| whaack: | i'm pretty sure its sdc1, i guessed that and was taken to the centos install screen | [19:43] |
| jfw: | the unstated question is "how would I check on that"? | [19:43] |
| whaack: | maybe if i unplugged and replugged the usb one option would disappear/reappear | [19:44] |
| jfw: | get a shell on another TTY, run fdisk -l /dev/sdX, check the size/partition layout, usually that's enough to figure it out | [19:44] |
| jfw: | I would not recommend replugging, not sure if the root FS is mounted from it or what. | [19:45] |
| jfw: | dmesg is your friend too | [19:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:57:45 dorion: lobbes cool, dmesg is a good friend to have :) | [19:47] |
| whaack: | i'm not sure exactly what you meant by get a shell on another tty. are you saying there's a way i could connect to my machine from another computer? | [19:48] |
| whaack: | dang, same error | [19:49] |
| jfw: | whaack: https://www.linux.org/threads/virtual-terminals.4135/ | [19:49] |
| whaack: | hm but that requires me to already have linux installed, i am not there yet. anyways, it seems my problem was i was trying to install on both my ssd and hdd. | [19:53] |
| jfw: | the installer itself is linux, what | [19:54] |
| jfw: | did you intend to install on both? should certainly be possible, like / on ssd and /home on hdd or something | [19:56] |
| whaack: | ah yeah for some reason i had in my head i was locked into the installer sequence. alright i finished the install but i will try to run the installer again and switch to a shell on another tty | [19:57] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm i can't get into a terminal with alt-f2 or any other alt function combination | [19:59] |
| jfw: | the ctrl-alt-fN, possibly the single biggest distinction between Linux and Windows in regards to whether human controls machine or vice versa. | [19:59] |
| jfw: | if it's a GUI installer, might need to add the ctrl. | [19:59] |
| whaack: | had to click num lock | [20:00] |
| whaack: | the other terminals though don't allow any input | [20:00] |
| jfw: | no login prompts? possibly centos installer is dumb like that then. | [20:00] |
| whaack: | i just have a blinking cursor | [20:00] |
| whaack: | anyways, i got centos6 installed on my ssd and arrived at a terminal. now i have to figure out how to connect to the network + start installing drivers, but all that is for tomorrow/later this week. | [20:12] |
| jfw: | cool. The 'minimal' install is indeed quite minimal if I recall – might not even have man pages and syslog for example. You'll have some yum installing to do. | [20:14] |
| whaack: | yup, no man pages | [20:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (165h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (165h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/jfw-review-week-of-jan-13-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Jan 13 2020 | [02:11] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-20-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 20 2020 | [02:19] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/rmd-review-jan-11-19th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 11-19th, 2020 | [03:34] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/rmd-plan-jan-20-24th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Jan 20-24th, 2020 | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you do like living dangerously, don't you. | [04:26] |
| dorion: | diana_coman while I've definitely taken my share of risk – some smart, some dumb – I know I can improve the balance of the ratio in favor of more smart risk. | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: some unbalance in that direction may be even better! but yes, setting yourself up for less dumb risk will do wonders and on more fronts than one really. | [11:54] |
| dorion: | for sure. set up to let compound interest of smart risk accrue. | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: note the difference there between your stated "more" (risk, be it smart) and my "less" (dumb risk); while "more of smart and less of dumb" may be the theoretical ideal, the practice is best served by focusing on the "less" first; it also makes for more calm and less stress really. | [14:50] |
| dorion: | diana_coman makes sense++ | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so how's that Hawaii article going wrt to the current deadline for it? | [15:08] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good. not sure if it'll be out before I sleep tonight, but good chance it will. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | iirc deadline is tomorrow so that sounds fine, glad to hear it; and no need to rush/skip the final review either. | [15:18] |
| dorion: | yes, deadline is tomorrow. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why were the bots kicked in the first place anyway? | [15:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: this i have not yet investigated. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | when you say they were kicked do you mean you looked and ~all were kicked or do you mean you saw some kicked and so "bots were kicked"? | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, before "fixing" it, you *have to* investigate what the fuck the problem is in the first place, you know? | [15:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I looked on one VM and I discovered I was banned from ~all of the 7-8 networks I had connected to. Then I looked into a few networks and saw that my bots had been kicked from channels and were constantly trying to rejoin them. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | hrm, now there's even a sf story for you but finish the odyssey or it'll take longer than it took ulysses by the sounds of it. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the same on other VMs or was there only one connected? | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | this is quite important too because ahem, if you don't figure out and solve it, there's not going to be much systematic anything there. | [15:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was running bots on two VMs and iirc yes the same thing happened on the other VM (checking now) | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | there was my previous clear statement re if kicked let the chan be but mk, test run and all that. | [15:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:41:24 diana_coman: let it join, what; collect data for 1 month and then see; if it gets kicked from a chan, let the chan be, not like I want to force anyone now out of the hole they enjoy, what. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any reason given on first kick? because the ban makes sense afterwards given the kick/rejoin dance, ofc. | [15:42] |
| whaack: | I just checked, on the other VM I was banned from 3 networks w/ errors: "ERR_YOUREBANNEDCREEP: shire.digitalirc.org snup97 "You are not welcome on this network. G-Lined: join/part spam. Email https://tickets.digitalirc.org for more information."" and "NOTICE: Defiant.GeekShed.net snup97 "*** You are banned from GeekShed (You are banned from GeekShed for 8d! Reason: Malicious bots, clones and drones are prohibited by the Network TO | [15:44] |
| whaack: | S." and "NOTICE: spinnaker.p2pchat.net roco44 "*** You are banned from P2PChat (either stay on or off (3 days))"" | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | so hm, join/part spam aka…connection flicker?? | [15:44] |
| whaack: | no I think the join/part spam is more likely from the kick/join dance | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | no data re kicks themselves? | [15:45] |
| whaack: | there should be data .. i have to dig for it | [15:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe the bots need girl names and an Eliza plugged into them? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | hands whaack a shovel. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: eh, I'm not (yet) trying to take over all chans too! | [15:46] |
| whaack: | lol | [15:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, something to do call/response | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | they can certainly say hello but I doubt that's the issue really | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | and at any rate, it's not like all networks are invited to dump all their issues for whaack to have what to address. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The query "select message, networkname from irclog where irc_message_type='CL-IRC:IRC-KICK-MESSAGE';" gave me the following results from vm1 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=VvJp and from vm2 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Igiq | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | "You have been found co-channeling in one or more blacklisted channels" | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | oh the lulz | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | but not that much variety, hm. | [16:04] |
| whaack: | I notice that it was only from 3 networks that I received kicks. But my fleetlogs show that on one VM i have 4354 disconnects and 4440 joins | [16:04] |
| whaack: | so there is likely something else causing the disconnect/reconnect dance. or i'm getting kicked from channels without receiving an irc-kick-message. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, overall it sounds like you should first understand a bit better just what exactly your bots are doing there and how, really | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: there's so much fun to be had there but you do need to be better at it than their lame efforts, seriously. | [16:06] |
| whaack: | btw, i didn't implement the reconnect-on-kick feature intentionally. with cl-irc you set a nick to have a list of channels, and i found out cl-irc automatically rejoins the nick to a network when kicked. I will have to explicitly remove the channel from the nick's list when it gets kicked. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean by I need to be better at it than their lame efforts? | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, fix so it doesn't reconnect on kick for starters; get to the bottom of that 4354 disconnects vs 4440 joins, if at all possible; add whatever additional logging you need to have full information on hand and preferably timely delivered too; maybe start with a smaller trial that you can monitor more closely to figure out what's going on, if needed | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, their "fighting the oh-noez-spam-not-ours" is from what I see a combination of "oh, you won't answer me???" and that co-channeling lulz; the rest is just repetition really. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | well, unintentional implementation is …. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | and anyways, their bans are for some number of days, can even rotate etc. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | alright I'll take BingoBoingo's advice and see if adding an Eliza-light will help | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | but it's not yet even clear it's worth the effort | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: first of all get to the bottom of the connect/reconnect and kick/not kick, anyway; eliza-light comes afterwards and only if really justified. | [16:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: btw do you have a way you'd like me to select the channels? I sorted by the most popular channels and joined those first…that was not because I thought that was a particularly good idea in the general case – but because I was mostly testing networks that had ~0 activity in anything but the more popular channels | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | it makes sense since otherwise you'd see empty lines anyway so not much gain; that's not a problem there | [16:13] |
| whaack: | ^ alright i'll publish a plan to address the above this evening / tomorrow midday. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is the whole code clear to you now how and why it works and what is going on in there? | [16:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: my code and trinque's irclogger are clear to me. (btw trinque did you look into the reconnect bug I pointed out? I will confirm there's a problem and publish a vpatch for it later this week if I get the time.) how cl-irc handles certain things is a bit of a blackbox. | [16:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:56:08 whaack: trinque: I think I may understand this if you never got around to it. The thread that normally calls ircbot-reconnect is the ircbot-ping-thread. However the ping-thread commits suicide because ircbot-disconnect calls (sb-thread:terminate-thread (ircbot-ping-thread bot)) . So when the ping thread calls ircbot-reconnect after calling ircbot-disconnect it never gets to the ir | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is cl-irc that huge/gnarly that it's a huge project to look and find out how it handles those exact certain things that you don't know about but need? | [16:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no it is comprehensible. 4.5k LOC and there is a lot of handling of portions of the irc protocol i don't need to look into. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then look into it, since you are relying on it for the whole thing. | [16:22] |
| whaack: | (4.5k LOC _and_ from my understanding it does not import any external libraries) | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | let eliza be for the moment; it might be a good idea but it will get evaluated when the problem and its extent are clear, not just slapped on now because "it seems like a good idea" , ugh. | [16:23] |
| whaack: | (ah nvm it does use three – :split-sequence :usocket and :flexi-streams) | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, it did sound rather too good to be true, lol. | [16:24] |
| whaack: | alright, no eliza | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: enough work there to keep you busy ? clear enough so you know what you need to do? | [16:26] |
| whaack: | certainly the former, and yes I think I have a good idea of what to tackle next and how to go about it. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | cool then. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | the other major item in the pipeline today is the plan for my computer | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | anyone else in need of work around here? speak up, there's plenty to pass around! | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: wasn't there some article too? | [16:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yup that is done, just needs to do the final review | [16:29] |
| whaack: | i just need* | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | good then; any trouble re plan for your computer? | [16:30] |
| whaack: | i don't think there should be, but i haven't made a meta plan lol | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, no, no need for that or you'll loop forever in the meta-metas; I simply meant if you needed to clarify anything on that front. | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, although I am not sure how much detail I need to go into for how I go about building the computer. Do I need to spell out how all the cables are going to be laid in what directions + what gets zip tied to what? | [16:32] |
| whaack: | Currently I'm thinking I list all the parts I need to install, what order I install them in, and what items i will need / have available in order to do their install. I also will include any important installation notes for various pieces. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no need for cable-level of detail, no; whenever in such doubt, focus on what the goal of the plan (or whatever it is you are working on) really is | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | that's where everything else should come from; so: what's the goal of this plan of yours? | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The goal is to ensure I have what I need and know what to do in order to execute a timely, safe, and proper build of my computer. | [16:36] |
| whaack: | safe means I don't open up the possibility of breaking something, and proper means I don't make a mistake that requires me to do undo a bunch of work to fix. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then, does that require a list of what gets zip tied and cable directions? (it might or it might not, but it's your decision since you defined the goal of what you need, so ..up to you) | [16:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right…that's why I asked, I'm not so sure. There are certain cables that must be laid out before installing other parts. So I think yes I will have to consider some of the cable layout in my plan. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then consider it, sure; it's *your* plan and it should serve you best, first and foremost. | [16:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | recommends saving zip ties for last. Otherwise there's opportunities for friction as you plug and unplug cables in search of the cleanest routes, the friction being cutting and placing new zip ties. | [16:42] |
| whaack: | ^ noted | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | aha, not a bad idea; and in general, tidying stuff neatly up tends to be at the end precisely because otherwise it might get untidy again before everything is done. | [16:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | You also don't want to be putting any cables under unnecessary tension. Once you're satisfied all cables are plugged in with a comfortable amount of slack, then zip tying can begin. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, nice photos, whaack ! and you basically showed Panama City more than jfw and dorion so far combined, ha! takes a non-local to publish photos of a place, it would seem. | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha that's how it goes I guess. I have ~no photos of NYC. | [18:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | So much more glass and height than Montevideo has. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: more recent former money place I guess. | [18:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Likely. | [18:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect Uruguay's generally less accomodating to height variance requests leading to 10 to 12 storey canyons on a number of streets. | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, my experience here is that the visitors have always come with fresher eyes. It doesn't seem to take much time for the visual landscape anywhere to start feeling normal. | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: if by normal you mean "perpendicular" (to my disposition at times if to nothing else), I'll fully agree to that – it doesn't take much time at all!! lolz | [18:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: By normal I mean, the brain starts applying a "this place is familiar" filter over what they eyes are sending it. There seems to be a window first arriving in a new place where the brain's "Everything in visual range is new!" gets the shutter button on the camera moving. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I got what you meant, just being amused otherwise because despite knowing what you mean, I am – if anything – even less able to take a decent picture of something new than of something more familiar. | [18:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, sometimes things are both new and familiar. The local Afro cultists might leave a dead chicken in a new place, but once you've seen enough chickens left in odd locations… | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | lol, that's one sort of new and familiar, can be. | [18:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's not even surprising anymore either. The flies give it away everytime, because it's almost rare to see flies in Montevideo outside of the specific situation. | [19:02] |
| jfw: | whaack: y'know, if cl-irc turns out to be some kind of eldritch horror, there is also http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/yrc-a-unix-irc-client-genesis/ which fits both irc client and UI in 2.5k lines. The irc parts could quite likely be isolated for use as a bot. Though I don't expect changing languages would be cheap for you at this point. | [21:32] |
| jfw: | or for that matter there's asciilifeform's log bot too, though looks like it's not set up to handle any message types besides ping and privmsg. | [21:48] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (189h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (189h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015350 – heh; listen, get used to *always* look a bit more at whatever you are doing at any given time; I specifically did not say anything about comment/articles numbers there so you have a chance to fix that too on your own steam; but you have to look and consider more than just the exact prod, what! | [04:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 19:32:20 lobbes: jfw: this is a good point, ty. I'll do just that | [04:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015344 – is that a question? lolz. | [04:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 18:01:44 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015339 << yeah, overall I liked the final result but indeed it took me 11 hours (from my estimated 6).. not sure why I'm so slow with writing | [04:41] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 09:09:40 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015311 – that sounds like it took way longer than you expected. | [04:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 19:35:15 lobbes: diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [04:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: are those weekly plans & reviews more useful to you on Fridays in the end or on Sundays or not that useful at all or what? | [10:35] |
| whaack: | so.. fiesta round two was just as bad as the first. One of my phones got pick pocketed, and then there was so much traffic leaving the party that we could not get out of the city until ~6am. rough way to end the vacation but i'm going to get to the review+plan for the week and then begin cranking out articles. | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like the usual "popular entertainment" experience really. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how do you find writing those gbw-node draft articles? | [15:24] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: they've been easy enough, but slow; I find a lot of time going into futzing with referencing, re-reading the code, thinking about what's clear or needs explanation or could use improvement | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, slow as in "I wish this went faster" or slow as in "not worth this much time on it"? | [15:29] |
| jfw: | then that 'futzing with referencing' breaks down into, let's say, the useful part of re-reading / checking that they're justified, and some 'html overhead' part | [15:30] |
| jfw: | I think the effort is worth it for this item though probably not all code I'd post. Also wish it went faster. | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | well, certainly not all the code and not in the same level of detail, sure; there's no "same for everything", no. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | as for faster, it should get faster with practice and/or improvement of process if there's some part that's really just overhead; what's that html overhead anyway? | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | as in writing the html tags or what? | [15:33] |
| jfw: | that, and also finding and testing the #select search terms | [15:35] |
| jfw: | then occasionaly I do get tags / syntax wrong so there's some cycling through save draft / preview / edit | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: uhm; fwiw I tend to write the whole thing as draft in some .txt, tags included and all that; then into mpwp + preview + edit and publish, that's it. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | not sure it's really worth previewing as you go really but anyways, if you'd rather it took less time, find ways that work for you to streamline it. | [15:39] |
| jfw: | I write in a .html first too (gets syntax highlighting); probably need to focus on getting that down to one cycle, yeah. | [15:41] |
| jfw: | maybe looking into editor features to help with tags | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible. | [15:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yup. i learned my lesson twice in a row about avoiding LATAM crowds (which can be extended to crowds in general) | [15:44] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015352 << this makes sense | [15:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 04:25:17 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015350 – heh; listen, get used to *always* look a bit more at whatever you are doing at any given time; I specifically did not say anything about comment/articles numbers there so you have a chance to fix that too on your own steam; but you have to look and consider more than just the exact prod, what! | [15:45] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015354 << I was definitely asking-without asking there. To state it properly: how do I speed up my writing? | [15:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 04:41:06 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015344 – is that a question? lolz. | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, in a few words it would be "through purposeful practice/review/feedback loop" really; but specifically for this instance, how did it go in the end like that since iirc your plan provided for some incremental work on it througout the week and then it ended all up on Friday+spill out on Saturday ? | [15:47] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: there was definitely spill-over. I did about an hour of writing on Wednesday but indeed didn't get started until Friday really | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: why? | [15:48] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'm thinking on this why | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | take your time. | [15:49] |
| lobbes: | I still just put it off I guess. Even though I budgeted the hour for each day I kept thinking 'ah well I'll have plenty of time Thursday in any case'. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: even if you had "plenty of time Thursday in any case" (which predictably, you didn't), the trouble starts with the very framing there: it's not about whether you have "enough time later for this or that" but rather: what did you do actually useful with the time on Monday and Tuesday? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, I can see this framing. I didn't really do anything useful with my time those days besides running an errand or two. I instead just did my usual wasting activities. | [15:55] |
| lobbes: | I find it harder to get started on things after saltmine days in general. Weekends are easier because I can just wake up refreshed and start working | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: myeah, that's the trouble with full-time saltmine esp if still screen-based really; it still eats up the day pretty much, regardless of "easy" or not. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | it's not even all that much after your effort really as after your time, basically keeping you… busy. | [15:58] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is starting to become tangible now through this recent failure to meet my deadlines | [15:58] |
| lobbes: | because yeah, it IS rather easy work but still when I come home I feel 'burnt out' | [15:59] |
| lobbes: | and Fridays too, while I'm still tired I can at least say 'well I can sleep in tomorrow' i.e. I have control of my time | [16:01] |
| whaack: | lobbes: Why not do your writing before your saltmines work? Get paid while being burnt out | [16:01] |
| lobbes: | whaack: not a terrible idea, I suppose if I started waking up a few hours earlier this is feasible | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, I'm not going to find solutions for you there but note that 2 days out of every 7 is going to take a very long time indeed to get anywhere | [16:02] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: understood. I'm going to need to remedy this in some way. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: make clear to yourself your own priorities and then align your actions to those | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, plenty of various ways to do it really but… only if you want (that hard want meaning) to do it. | [16:04] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this makes sense. Esp the making clear my own priorities. Then the various actions I could take are more readily identifiable | [16:05] |
| lobbes: | thank you | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome; and do speak up on it anytime if you're stuck/want feedback. | [16:06] |
| lobbes: | I will | [16:07] |
| whaack: | lobbes: waking up early is a good habit to pick up anyways | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | heh, if he goes to sleep early too then; not even a bad idea at all for that matter. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | i used to be a night owl but my schedule was switched out of necessity for surfing | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you know, if you are burnt out/tired then, logically speaking, go to sleep, what; no matter what the hour, if too tired to do anything useful, then go to sleep. | [16:09] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman / whaack it is true, I have a terrible habit of staying up / waking up late | [16:10] |
| whaack: | ^ how-to-not-snowball 101 :D | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: see, alternatively you move to CR, get into surfing and then apparently your schedule will switch by itself even, problem(s) solved! | [16:11] |
| lobbes: | bwhah | [16:11] |
| lobbes: | I'd be a horrid surfer I imagine; I can't even swim | [16:12] |
| lobbes: | I just.. sink | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | even better, you'll learn to swim too! esp with those rip currents in CR, there can't be a better place to learn to swim ! | [16:12] |
| lobbes: | lol do-or-die eh? | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | well, hard guarantees, yes? can't be much harder than that. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | but that aside, packing more than one problems into one solution is otherwise not a bad idea at all; just pick problems and solution wisely, that's all, lolz. | [16:14] |
| lobbes: | I like it. Efficient! | [16:15] |
| whaack: | well you can learn to surf without knowing how to swim, at the beginner spot here (where I took thimbronion) you can stay where it is only waist deep. | [16:17] |
| lobbes: | whaack: that does sound kind of fun | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you know, quite a big part of that style jfw says is mine comes pretty much from… lacking time to beat around various bushes. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:00:53 jfw: I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [16:18] |
| whaack: | well you should learn to swim / handle rip currents anyways | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, efficient better than inefficient, sure! | [16:18] |
| whaack: | the one and only corpse i've ever seen was an older man who washed up in the surf in Playa Guillones | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, that is one way to encourage him! | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | lol that is a good sales pitch | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you around at all? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | (granted there were 3 meter waves that day, i learned he had a daily swim routine that he *really* stuck to) | [16:20] |
| lobbes: | now that's dedication | [16:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: makes sense on the time thing. | [16:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I will bbl. I'll make sure to get review/plan out today. I also discovered that I have tomorrow off of work, so I'll have some extra space for mp-wp-bot prep spillover if need be | [16:27] |
| dorion: | diana_coman catching up now. | [16:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015376 << I suspect there's some profound cultural differences between your LATAM and my LATAM, but the crowds may not be the problem so much as you lack practice reading and navigating the crowds. | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 15:44:26 whaack: diana_coman: yup. i learned my lesson twice in a row about avoiding LATAM crowds (which can be extended to crowds in general) | [16:39] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015358 << they are helpful. this week I let my ego get tangled in losing the pics, which delayed my writing. I also didn't provision enough time in my plan last week to accomodate whaack, whose visit I very much enjoyed. as the logs indicate, I was working on the hawaii article friday night, rather than plan/review. | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 10:35:40 diana_coman: dorion: are those weekly plans & reviews more useful to you on Fridays in the end or on Sundays or not that useful at all or what? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that's quite likely indeed that he's not that good at dealing with crowds at all; but I'd still say best read from some …distance, lol. | [16:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Right. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: during my time in Tamarindo I had a stroke of good luck with regards to not being robbed etc. and that luck ran out yesterday | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so how do you pick what you work on when you get some time? | [16:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I also suspect losing the camera might be messing with your head a bit. You've got to mind how you present when you are out and about. If you move around like you've got something to lose, the local grab and run artists are going to read "target" out of that. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not being robbed etc is not a matter of luck really | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | what BingoBoingo says above ; but more to the point: pickpockets do not randomly choose targets (or they won't last long really) | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | they are actually quite good at reading people for that matter. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | at least in the specific way they are interested in, of course. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | I guess uni time in Bucharest came at least with a side education on this, lolz. | [16:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Down here its the same people getting robbed 6+ times a year. | [16:46] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yup I made a very specific and stupid error. I had my phone in my pants pocket and I moved it to my outside blazer pocket as I was in the thicket of a crowd. 1 min later i checked for it and it was gone | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, that's really more like a tax agreement than anything else | [16:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I am conscious of the plan, but clearly there's some gap between the thinking and doing. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | basically a less boring way of taxing | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: well, overall if looking back at all of it really, on the bright side, you'll do one way or another those parts that are absolutely crucial; and otherwise for the rest, well…. | [16:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman a friend gave me drucker's "the effective executive" yesterday, which I've started. one point it opened me up to is regularly re-evaluting priorities. | [16:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It really seems like it. "Reparations Recovery" is how Lafond describes Baltimore's version. | [16:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, the once nice film cameras didn't make their way to the feria because there is a robust used film camera market here. | [16:51] |
| dorion: | he says one can only effectively focus on one or two priorities at a time. once one has been completely, re-evaulate the priorities and plan. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: conscious of the plan I'm sure you are but the part that is not all that clear is how you deal with it esp when you are behind/it starts falling apart. | [16:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That isn't necessarily an error on its own. You left out the failure to keep a hand in your pocket while taking some time to think about who the most stabbable people in the crowd are. | [16:54] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, it's exactly clear to me either. there's definitely a stress response when I am getting behind. my understanding of brain function tells me the hypothalmus is more in control and the cortex less so, which thinking about it now is probably a reason I'm less conscious of that process. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the flexible part is that re-evaluate and adjust if/when needed, yes; not sure what are you saying there though, that weekly re-evaluation is too coarse? | [16:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-04 16:43:15 diana_coman: dorion_road: overall, the plan (and especially the initial plan) is really meant to be a roadmap, not a straightjacket (and I seriously think it would hinder rather than help you if you make it all that rigid); so plan it as a flexible thing to start with: a guide to make sure you don't waste time, but not something so fixed that it can't/shouldn't adapt to significant changes as they happen. | [16:56] |
| dorion: | not exactly clear* | [16:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That though seems to be enough to get the facial muscles moving in a way that the kids start looking for the next, less present target. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that's why I keep saying that the time to speak up about missing a deadline (and therefore to ADJUST the plan too!) is the day before the deadline, not the day of the deadline nor the one after nor "never", you know? | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | no need to *get to the stress* even, wtf. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: ah that sounds like an enjoyable exercise. should i also imagine how i'd go about it once i have identified my targets? | [16:59] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks. I see more flexibility, balance and proactive communication going a long way. I'll start focusing on those. it occurs those are causes to work from. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: if/when it's already late, might even work better to at least not snowball it: adjust the expectations of everyone for the bit that is late and focus on the one(s) that can still be done on time unless the priorities really are reversed; but seriously, don't get so stressed about it all. | [17:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman re the weekly planning cycle being too coarse. I don't think it is looking at it through the lens of the adaptable roadmap rather than straightjacket. | [17:04] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, I'll take that approach and also calm down. | [17:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I'll try to dig you some jameslafond links for you. My first few days here I was walking around as though I were in the neighborhood surrounding my brother's house in Saint Louis. | [17:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | This was to the point I nearly shoulder checked a motorscooter shortly after landing. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | cool, so look at it through that lens then, do simply speak up (I haven't yet eaten anybody around here for speaking up, have I?) and it'll be fine. | [17:06] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: cool, thanks | [17:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman no, you've not eaten anyone I'm aware of for speaking up :) | [17:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It was a bit much to be honest, but having the right sort of alert scowl at the ready work here not that Montevideo isn't near as alien anymore. | [17:08] |
| dorion: | thanks diana_coman | [17:11] |
| whaack: | lol hold on – when you 'stepped aside and turned' you stepped _towards_ the scooter? | [17:11] |
| whaack: | related: i learned in my early CR days that girl needs to walk on your curb-side unless you want to open her up to the possibility of the drive by ass slap. | [17:17] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015395 – calls to mind robert kiyosaki's (rich dad, poor dad) "pay yourself first." | [17:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:01:44 whaack: lobbes: Why not do your writing before your saltmines work? Get paid while being burnt out | [17:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015446 – like how bullies know/sense who to bully. | [17:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:45:40 diana_coman: they are actually quite good at reading people for that matter. | [17:22] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015450 – inside pockets of blazer for things of more value. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:47:08 whaack: BingoBoingo: Yup I made a very specific and stupid error. I had my phone in my pants pocket and I moved it to my outside blazer pocket as I was in the thicket of a crowd. 1 min later i checked for it and it was gone | [17:23] |
| whaack: | yup, everything moved to the inside pockets afterwards, of course. | [17:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I left my line on the sidewalk into the source of the uncomfortably close exhaust not and conspiciously turned to look while plenting my boots. Smart? Probably not. Effective at deterring a potential grab and run? Yes. | [17:25] |
| jfw: | I also let myself get worked up / stressed yesterday from being again behind on my plan. And hesitated to speak up along the way because of… perhaps some shame at how slow things were going plus a vain hope that I'd somehow still get it all in. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | Specifically – I'm not getting my 5 hours of wallet dev, and while I caught up on the #o log from break and got assorted blog reading in, I've barely made a dent in a mountain of #t backlog | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was the writing of those articles that ate up your time otherwise or what specifically? | [17:35] |
| jfw: | dorion suggested prioritizing that by search for mentions. I suppose I've hesitated on that too because I worry I'd still miss too much context | [17:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: that was quite a bit of it, the bvt & fixpoint responses took a while too | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | heh, as I was saying, he's fine at handling on time what's crucial/burning | [17:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:49:02 diana_coman: dorion: well, overall if looking back at all of it really, on the bright side, you'll do one way or another those parts that are absolutely crucial; and otherwise for the rest, well…. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so then re-adjust: next week plan at least a few days without article and with reading #t instead; anyway, does it take longer than the 1.5 hours/day? iirc there wasn't any really heavy log-day lately, was there? | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | it occurs to me that I should possibly start eating people up for NOT speaking really. | [17:39] |
| jfw: | I've also started to wonder if I'm just a really slow reader. Adding up the log catchup time (including whatever background reading that pulls in) came to ~50 words per minute; then I did some conscious speed tests on simple material at ~200wpm | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | the trouble with always handling only what's burning is that one is then basically firefighting; no wonder stressed up too, sure. | [17:41] |
| jfw: | one of the heavier days from #o was 2020-01-05 with the mp-wp patch review chat | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: even better: write up summary of the day's log; so you get your reading + your writing :D | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | talking of 2 problems in one solution | [17:42] |
| jfw: | yes I've allowed it to overflow 1.5h. Hmm, sounds good | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how fast/slow you read the logs is likely to depend on how deep you want to go into whatever is discussed + to what extent it is (or not) familiar to you. | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | so to some extent you should be able to *adjust* the speed when/if needed; the logs like all other text can also be re-read | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | so for catch-up situations, you can have a quicker read; then again, if after that you never get around to re-read any of it.. | [17:44] |
| jfw: | btw I quite enjoyed the testing thread | [17:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-05 16:45:11 diana_coman: lobbes: do you know what black box and white box testing are? | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to know it! only boring stuff around here really, testing, going to sleep when tired, speaking up when needing to communicate, seriously, boring. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | if I never get around to re-read, then what? I won't recall well + am indicating I didn't find it worth the read? | [17:47] |
| jfw: | "don't jump in crowded bullpens or swim in 3m waves" | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: then it's not much of an "adjust the speed" really; it's more of a "change your speed" | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: precisely! | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | I guess dorion goes for the scan, you go for the deep dive, on average it balances out all right over some cervezas or something, there's that possibility too. | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, never discussed any logs/trilema stuff at a Junto? | [17:50] |
| whaack: | ^ they do discuss logs/trilema stuff during Junto. a person there even knew me as "whaack" | [17:52] |
| jfw: | I've done some presentations on applied cryptography basics plus one on http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/ + http://trilema.com/2014/the-forum-and-its-implementation/ | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, you are a celebrity-bird, that's why they knew you! | [17:53] |
| whaack: | lmao | [17:53] |
| jfw: | oh I also did an "Everyday Digital Hygiene" – meaning of entropy, generating passwords with dice, and the like | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: getting back to http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015507 – the point is that if you decide something is worth another read, then you should explicitly schedule and do it; anything other than that is just pretense really as it will never happen so best not pretended either; you decide either way at any time but just …don't lie to yourself, it's not worth it. | [17:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:44:14 diana_coman: so for catch-up situations, you can have a quicker read; then again, if after that you never get around to re-read any of it.. | [17:56] |
| jfw: | yep, and I don't think I'm easily fooled by myself anyway | [18:00] |
| jfw: | probably doesn't stop me from trying, lol | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you are not; but you are also quite good at talking yourself into anything you want if you really choose to; basically it cuts both ways since yeah, it's …you with you, you know? | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | but sure, if/when you do fool yourself, it'll be an intricate thing, not the easy stuff; lolz. | [18:03] |
| jfw: | haha. gotta talk myself into things wisely then | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | sounds… wise! | [18:05] |
| jfw: | …at which point I notice how diana_coman almost let me off the hook from daily writing then found a way not to | [18:10] |
| jfw: | probably for the best | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; delayed-notice! | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow. | [18:11] |
| jfw: | cya diana_coman, pleasure chatting. | [18:12] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/wh-plan-for-week-15-jan-20th-jan-26th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 15 (Jan 20th – Jan 26th) | [21:17] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/wh-review-of-week-14-jan-13th-jan-19th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 14 (Jan 13th – Jan 19th) | [21:49] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/ejb-review-week-4-jan-13-jan-19/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 4 (Jan 13 – Jan 19) | [23:04] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/ejb-plan-week-5-jan-20-jan-26/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 5 (Jan 20 – Jan 26) | [23:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Jan 2020
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015264 << not sure how I missed this this morning, thanks jfw for the pointing it out. I've been working on the hawaii article. | [00:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 04:13:38 diana_coman: dorion: what/where/why are you stuck on silent with your blog now? | [00:49] |
| dorion: | one cloud that's been hanging over my head is in my sleepless daze I left my camera and pictures between the car rental drop off and gate in las vegas. I've been calling rental car/airport/airline – no luck. I've scraped together pictures taken by friends and family, which I'm going with for the article, but that mistake created some resistance. | [00:57] |
| dorion: | I spent more time on jwrd sales than I'd planned. following up with previous leads and also generated a few new promising ones. I did that instead of working through the article backlog. | [01:02] |
| dorion: | on the hawaii article itself, I used hanbot's tinyscheme + gimp method to resize the pics and jfw's script to create the scaffolding. one thiing I'm unsure about now though is when I preview the article, only the links to the pics show. when I click the links the pics open fine in a new tab, but they're not being rendered in the article. | [01:06] |
| dorion: | not sure if they'll actually be rendered when I publish or if I did something wrong. for further context, I used hanbot's 1024x638px dimensions. not sure if that's too big for my theme. I see jfw used 720px width. | [01:09] |
| jfw: | dorion: sounds like something done wrong, yes; have you tried viewing one of the thumbnail URLs individually? | [01:14] |
| jfw: | hm, I recall my script did both those things in one pass so did you modify it or what? if so, could paste the new version | [01:21] |
| jfw: | to bed | [01:24] |
| dorion: | jfw, I modified the width parameter and removed the imagemagick lines. here is the script and here is the diff. | [01:31] |
| jfw: | hm, the "f" loop variable isn't serving any purpose there anymore, but still looks like it should work, assuming the scheme code matches up. How about the earlier question? e.g. right click broken thumbnail -> View Image, what happens? | [01:51] |
| jfw: | really to bed nao | [01:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: from that paste, it looks like you should have 2 files there for each pic and if you say it doesn't render, it would seem like the -1024px.jpg file is missing/not found; did you check that url directly/that file being where the src of <img src=… > points to? | [05:15] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015311 – that sounds like it took way longer than you expected. | [05:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 19:35:15 lobbes: diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [05:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015315 – apparently it's a vanishing-cameras start of the year! | [05:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 00:57:14 dorion: one cloud that's been hanging over my head is in my sleepless daze I left my camera and pictures between the car rental drop off and gate in las vegas. I've been calling rental car/airport/airline – no luck. I've scraped together pictures taken by friends and family, which I'm going with for the article, but that mistake created some resistance. | [05:18] |
| diana_coman: | quite a pity though. | [05:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015316 – sales leads do have priority but there still has to be somewhere some time for getting back to your blog too; it's not all that unrelated either. | [05:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 01:02:00 dorion: I spent more time on jwrd sales than I'd planned. following up with previous leads and also generated a few new promising ones. I did that instead of working through the article backlog. | [05:23] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015325 – that's exactly it. there weren't any -1024px.jpgs. thank you. | [10:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 05:15:34 diana_coman: dorion: from that paste, it looks like you should have 2 files there for each pic and if you say it doesn't render, it would seem like the -1024px.jpg file is missing/not found; did you check that url directly/that file being where the src of <img src=… > points to? | [10:14] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015330 – the wound is healing, but the scar is going to endure quite a while I reckon. | [10:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 05:19:03 diana_coman: quite a pity though. | [10:16] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015331 – agreed. | [10:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 05:23:18 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015316 – sales leads do have priority but there still has to be somewhere some time for getting back to your blog too; it's not all that unrelated either. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015333 – glad to hear it's sorted and looking forward to the article. | [15:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 10:14:57 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015325 – that's exactly it. there weren't any -1024px.jpgs. thank you. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was this comment ever answered somewhere? | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do take pingbacks out of recent comments on your blog; see the patch | [15:52] |
| jfw: | diana_coman, dorion: I recall seeing the comment and pondering a bit but looks like I did miss responding, huh. Thanks for pointing it out. | [16:27] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015339 << yeah, overall I liked the final result but indeed it took me 11 hours (from my estimated 6).. not sure why I'm so slow with writing | [18:01] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 09:09:40 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015311 – that sounds like it took way longer than you expected. | [18:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 19:35:15 lobbes: diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [18:01] |
| lobbes: | and roger that on the pingbacks-in-recent-comments vpatch. I'll apply that today | [18:02] |
| lobbes: | patch applied, and ty for the prod. I'll say it is a pleasure to not have a cluttered sidebar anymore | [19:22] |
| jfw: | lobbes: while you're at it, I heartily recommend maxing out the recent posts [articles] and comments counts too | [19:24] |
| lobbes: | jfw: this is a good point, ty. I'll do just that | [19:32] |
| jfw: | dorion: pls let me know if my response is intelligible. | [21:40] |
#ossasepia Logs for 17 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you finish it then? | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, wb! | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what/where/why are you stuck on silent with your blog now? | [04:13] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: Still working that article now, but it isn't quite done. I think I may have to pick it up when I wake up. I'm working from home tomorrow so I should be able to finish it in the morning | [04:27] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you know, that ping was pretty much to get you starting before Friday on stuff, heh. | [04:29] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeahh I need to stop this wait-until-Friday jazz. I can see it is not working | [04:30] |
| diana_coman: | aha; anyways, have some rest & work well after that. | [04:32] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [04:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman, ty | [04:32] |
| lobbes: | will also bbl | [04:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ty. i made a terrible decision tonight. I went to the fiesta and went as part of the crowd inside the bull ring. I thought there was quite a bit of safety in numbers, but really the crowd makes it hard to see where the bull is + there are people in the way as you try to run away. The bull chased me and I had ample time to get out of the way but I lost my camera (it fell out of my pocket) as I scrambled under the fence | [07:15] |
| whaack: | (i saved the panama pics) | [07:16] |
| whaack: | to sleep | [07:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahahhaha; well, at least you got as a result quite the clear illustration of what "safety in numbers" ever means! And you still get to write it up, can't miss "Chased by the bull" article! | [07:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Yeah, when Latins start packing into a crowd, its time to start working your way out of there. They'll swear they just all wanted a good view, but it seems like some serious deeply wired "bees smothering invader to death" strategy. Here that happens with these little pop up fights from time to time. | [08:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Two folks already deep in a a crowd at the feria, Rambla, or any other dense gathering will start scrapping. The crowd will automatically pull tight around them. I have trouble interpreting these as anything other than "scam fight", their friends are probably getting ready to grab some bags off of members of the crowd and run during the distraction. | [08:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect a lot of the historical motivations for "gather around some bulls and piss them off" is that the folks who ran things enjoyed seeing bulls fucking up crowds. | [08:22] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I class it much simpler than that really but possibly because I saw enough of actual sheep herds, hm. | [08:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fyi, I got around to build Gales and it seems to have built fine on a CentOS 6 with gcc 4.9.4; there was just a short wtf moment when the… tar cmd failed; it turns out that the –sort option is available only from tar V 1.28 while my local tar is … 1.23; I didn't see any version spec in the prerequisites though probably my CentOS 6 is about as old everything as one gets nowadays | [12:34] |
| jfw: | whaack: I lol'd; glad you're alright though and sorry about the camera, it looked like a nice one | [15:59] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hey glad to hear it! And good to know about the tar version; the sort & other determinism tricks also don't work on Busybox tar as found on Gales itself. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yeah, I got why there was the –sort | [16:02] |
| whaack: | jfw: heh. yeah losing the camera was a night-ruiner…but at least i'll get a good (picture-less) article out of it | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, after reading your very useful BUILD doc a couple of times, I still packed the whole thing into a script mainly for speed but on reflection I think you got the right balance there – easy for one to make own script but not pre-packaged. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | I had considered implementing the tar format to surmount the limitations of the various implementations, but it's not pretty – historically fixed field widths with various extensions to surmount them. Ended up writing a shell archive tool instead, seen for example in the 'skeleton' script and gports. Should now be usable in place of tar actually. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol, I'd have thought it was the idiotic-crowd-mingling that was the night-ruiner; the camera was just the price of the lesson there. | [16:06] |
| jfw: | good to hear re balance of automation. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | I haven't yet got around to try deploying it too but at least there's a lenovo x200 unearthed that awaits to play the guinea pig. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | Looking forward to hearing how it goes. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | it might still be a while really. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | re tar, I don't really think it's worth /serious priority atm tbh | [16:10] |
| jfw: | yeah, and there's worse non-determinisms upstream of it IIRC | [16:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well yeah, i was pissed because i lost the camera because of a stupid decision. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | eh, you know, don't waste anger on the whole tree like that; just all to the root to make sure it sticks and that's it. | [16:13] |
| whaack: | alright. the real root is being convinced by cab driver 'ah yeah stay in the ring for a few more bulls' | [16:14] |
| whaack: | i should have quit while i was ahead after the 1st bull | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! so stupid decision but not even *your* own stupid idea to start with. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, always better to quit ahead of the bull I suppose, yes. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why so easily convinced anyway? | [16:17] |
| whaack: | unrelatedly, two people i've shared my blog with in person have commented with a raised eyebrow about how my site is 'not secure' (cuz I don't have HTTPS) | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | you should have told them that it has it SO secure that they can't even notice it!! | [16:18] |
| whaack: | ^ wut? lol | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | see, it helps to destabilise this sort of standard-comments | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | either something so out of the blue that it trips over the "expected flow" or …escalating the stupidity, it does wonders. | [16:19] |
| whaack: | aha yeah, that is how i should respond. trying to condense a long winded "well my site is read only, and should you want to ensure you are messaging me there's the gpg key listed. and btw you're being duped by your browser into thinking other sites are secure + who is the assigning authorithy you are trusting etc. etc." has not worked out | [16:23] |
| whaack: | as to the easily convinced question, i think it in part comes from me liking people who have a 'yes, let's do it!' attitude and then wanting to be that person i like. or in other words: i don't want to let people down when they're excited to do something together | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, if it's something *stupid*, cheer them on …from the sides, sure; and otherwise anyway, choose those who you don't want to let down, there's no possible good out of such blanket approach on this as on pretty much everything else. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | basically: discriminate. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [16:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [19:35] |
| jfw: | bvt: left a reply to your Gales report but it's not showing to me even as in moderation. Did it make it to your queue? | [20:37] |
#ossasepia Logs for 16 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-15#1015245 << Going well. I've got the next 4 hours blocked for finishing this penance article (sorry about the latency; I had missed this ping) | [21:59] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-15 07:46:13 diana_coman: lobbes: how's it going? | [21:59] |
| whaack: | is back at the outpost of progress | [22:09] |
#ossasepia Logs for 15 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | bvt: oh, hey, glad to hear you liked the CG map article! I had no idea you were at all interested in rendering or even graphics, huh; looking forward to your comments/article(s) on it then! | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how's it going? | [03:52] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Jan-2020#1015228 << your opining has been helpful and looking forward to reading more. I'm game for owning the relationships, wanted to make sure we're coordinated. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-14 21:56:41 trinque: dorion: as per previous comments, get at it. you're managing this project; I'm just opining loudly, hopefully to your benefit. leadership means you own the relationships. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Jan-2020#1015230 << yeah, I was biting my tongue on that and am not holding my breath, but yeah, let's see. | [16:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-14 21:57:38 trinque: if he works at canonical, I'm somewhat skeptical he'll align himself with burning down the world, but who knows. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | otoh wouldn't it be fun if he did turn around from canonical. | [16:23] |
| dorion: | sure would be. | [16:28] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: another day of failure to publish here. Seeing the spinning and wondering why I couldn't stop, I turned to writing whatever thoughts, which turned into a kind of internal dialogue. If I'm not willing to put forward my thoughts as truth, I can at least posit and consider them | [16:54] |
| jfw: | as I wrote: "This writing resistance is a signal. What's it telling me? Perhaps: that I'm not yet ready to write this article. That I'm missing something. So can't I limit the scope to what I already know? Original idea was just what's on my mind after all. But then I had to add on some missing context, and got hung up again on interpreting it." | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it is a signal, yes; but that "not ready" needs more qualifying really | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what are you stuck on? | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, are you stuck on writing or on publishing? | [17:00] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: on writing; specifically, on the background of how I approached my parental relationships in recent years | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: possibly you are asking a too-big question there, to start with. | [17:06] |
| jfw: | quite possible | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is it still keeping you from engaging with the code writings? | [17:07] |
| jfw: | I don't think it would now; I've just focused on it since that's what I had thought I wanted last week | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, you *did* get something clarified, if not through that first bit you published, at least through the discussion that followed in here, right? | [17:10] |
| jfw: | yes I think so, certainly made some points more concrete. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | so possibly it did take a bit the pressure off there; that being said, it will come back again anyway if you just forget about it but by the sounds of it, you are possibly better off giving it some time too. | [17:11] |
| jfw: | mm and getting your perspective was a novel addition. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | so switch back to other writings for now; think of smaller /different questions whenever you give it some thought and see where it is maybe next week or so. | [17:12] |
| jfw: | I'm happy to give it some time | [17:12] |
| jfw: | ok | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | some time, not all the time in the world, heh | [17:13] |
| jfw: | noted :) and thank you | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome :) | [17:13] |
#ossasepia Logs for 14 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Jan-2020#1015190 – quite so, yes. | [03:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-13 19:14:37 jfw: dorion: I also don't use spellcheckers except on occasion; my attitude is it's better to improve the brain-proofreading capacity first because spellchecker will never help with eg. "discuss with your further the cost". Perhaps they're most helpful if viewed like a teacher; they're not 'fixing for you' but pointing out mistakes so you can learn. For CLI environment I've used "aspell". | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Jan-2020#1015188 – tsk; any "preparing" of the dragging feet and other parts variety is to be logged under "worshipping stupidity" (or "wasted time" if you must) and then see at the end of the day how much you work and how much you waste-worship. If you don't count it/fail to record it, simply calculate it by ruthless subtraction but there is no time "not spent on anything" because it just … | [04:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-13 19:04:25 jfw: I've noticed that one time-stretching self-delusion I'm prone to is "I haven't yet sat down and logged a start time on task X, thus I'm now 'preparing myself' or something and can drag feet and it totally doesn't count as time spent on X" | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | … not possible. | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, it is that reptilian eye too, isn't it? enjoy panama and do take pictures for the blog too! | [04:06] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | diana_coman: o.O yes it must have been that reptilian eye | [10:08] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | diana_coman: i'm well under way to enjoying panama, i had a great time meeting up with dorion. the camera has been firing | [10:16] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | jfw: i messaged you on heathen comms. i'm going to go out for a bike ride sans electronics so i'll check in with you when i get back. | [12:47] |
| jfw: | whaack_temp_trav: I have not received; might need to check you're using traditional sms or phone call and not some facebookism | [13:03] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | jfw: kk | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the feet dragging going? | [15:16] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: for today I've sidestepped it by scheduling other things that really had to get done before my writing. I'm setting into that now. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | I see also I avoided ack'ing the worshipping stupidity advice, though I read this morning. | [16:12] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Jan-2020#1015211 << the pleasure was mine. looking forward to picking up and continuing tonight. | [16:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-14 10:16:04 whaack_temp_trav: diana_coman: i'm well under way to enjoying panama, i had a great time meeting up with dorion. the camera has been firing | [16:15] |
| jfw: | I will step up my detail of time recording by having all the time logged as something, at least as exercise for while this problem is ongoing. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds good. | [16:19] |
| dorion: | jfw does your log catch up include a response to bvt's gales installation report ? | [16:20] |
| jfw: | dorion: yes | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:57:19 jfw: bvt: thanks for the testing and writeup too and I will follow up in comments there. | [16:21] |
| dorion: | cool, thank you. | [16:22] |
| jfw: | I've made slow headway on the drafting, but I'm falling on face again as far as getting it done. whaack's arriving momentarily. Will get back to it either tonight or more likely first thing tomorrow. | [17:54] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: i liked your CG map post a lot (lots of nostalgia), and will try to follow in the comments – rendering technology was what brought me to programming when i was in high school, so it will be a personal story/brain dump of a sort. | [18:28] |
| trinque: | dorion: as per previous comments, get at it. you're managing this project; I'm just opining loudly, hopefully to your benefit. leadership means you own the relationships. | [21:56] |
| trinque: | in re: refind dood | [21:56] |
| trinque: | if he works at canonical, I'm somewhat skeptical he'll align himself with burning down the world, but who knows. | [21:57] |
#ossasepia Logs for 13 Jan 2020
| whaack: | jfw and dorion: i'm leaving my terminal, the best way to message me is here in #o but you can use try my digits as well if necessary. (Note – I will miss any pms you send me.) | [02:00] |
| jfw: | safe travels whaack & we'll see you shortly! | [02:27] |
| jfw: | spyked: feedbot's out | [02:31] |
| diana_coman: | new_yh 6 better here than in #eulora for the time being; what's your name? | [03:50] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-13-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 13 2020 | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/jfw-review-week-of-jan-6-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Jan 6 2020 | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/wh-plan-for-week-14-jan-13th-jan-19th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 14 (Jan 13th – Jan 19th) | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/ejb-plan-week-4-jan-13-jan-19/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 4 (Jan 13 – Jan 19) | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/rmd-review-jan-6th-12th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 6th-12th, 2020 | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/ejb-review-week-3-jan-6-jan-12/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 3 (Jan 6 – Jan 12) | [04:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman this is my draft of the email reaching out to the rEFInd fellow. I'd appreciate a sanity check from you when you have a moment prior to firing it off to him. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: why so…hm, fitful (and do use a spellchecker or something!); and give the guy first some time to react at all, first step is a more relaxed hi in and then depending on reaction, it moves forward one way or another; also, did you check with trinque as he was saying iirc he'll contact this guy, did he get around to contact him? | [15:58] |
| ossabot: | (eulora) 2020-01-05 mircea_popescu: say hi ? | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that convo linked from eulora might be of interest to you re MP's "say hi" | [15:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't use a spell checker.. do you have one to recommend ? | [16:02] |
| dorion: | I'll read that #e thread. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sadly no, I actually don't use one really (I'm just detail-oriented whether I like it or not). | [16:04] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't check with trinque, as of 12/29 he said he might. In my comment friday evening I said I could today. I'll ask trinque explicitly though. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | can't hurt and it's not like it can't wait (though I see why you'd rather have it done and not hanging like that, of course). | [16:07] |
| dorion: | yeah, not a rush, but has been two weeks ™ since it was suggested by both you and mp, so I thought why not ? trinque's churning out some really good stuff as it is. plus, if this guy actually does wanna step up to the plate, that could free spyked up for something else. | [16:15] |
| dorion: | i'll see what trinque says and if he gives me the green light, dial it back. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sure; and I really meant just sync with trinque , nothing more. | [16:17] |
| dorion: | cool, thanks. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | anytime. | [16:19] |
| jfw: | ahoy, I've again failed to get my article written; I did make good headway on organizing my loose pile of thoughts on the family, so I won't consider the time a waste. | [19:02] |
| jfw: | I've noticed that one time-stretching self-delusion I'm prone to is "I haven't yet sat down and logged a start time on task X, thus I'm now 'preparing myself' or something and can drag feet and it totally doesn't count as time spent on X" | [19:04] |
| jfw: | quite like the usg inflation measurement flexi-rulers huh | [19:06] |
| jfw: | dorion: I also don't use spellcheckers except on occasion; my attitude is it's better to improve the brain-proofreading capacity first because spellchecker will never help with eg. "discuss with your further the cost". Perhaps they're most helpful if viewed like a teacher; they're not 'fixing for you' but pointing out mistakes so you can learn. For CLI environment I've used "aspell". | [19:14] |
| jfw: | whaack: are you in yet? made contact with dorion? | [19:17] |
| jfw: | hm, the above is why imho spellchecker is a permissible thing in human society but autocorrect is not (beyond the more basic problem of being a machine designed to disobey commands) | [19:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Just remember that time, like some other things doesn't inflate very well | [19:38] |
| dorion: | jfw thanks for the aspell tip. there's other envs apart from cli ? | [20:10] |
| dorion: | jfw whaack wasn't expecting to get settled in until 7:30ish | [20:11] |
| jfw: | quite so BingoBoingo. dorion: was that a rhetorical question or what do you mean re other envs? | [20:42] |
| dorion: | jfw was joak | [20:42] |
| jfw: | gotcha. | [20:43] |
| dorion: | off to meet whaack | [21:03] |
| watchfuleye: | jfw: thx for asking, yup i am at selinas meeting up w/ dorion in a couple of mins | [21:12] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | ^ watchfuleye was my nick for fleetbot on alt comp | [21:12] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | anyways, cya tomorrow jfw | [21:13] |
| jfw: | and who doesn't love a watchful eye dropping in to say hi! | [21:14] |
#ossasepia Logs for 12 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | diana_coman: just to stay honest: I have technically missed my deadline for the Gales install. I was aiming to have it complete tonight, but I will instead complete tomorrow. | [00:17] |
| lobbes: | I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [00:18] |
| lobbes: | off to sleep. Will be at terminal bright n' early | [00:18] |
| jfw: | nifty lobbes. | [00:31] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013850 – also to voice others if I'm not mistaken; such privilege! | [00:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 09:51:56 whaack: diana_coman: No I had the idea that I did not have the right to speak in #trilema, but I will use my common sense going forward. | [00:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:50:49 jfw: diana_coman: I'm wondering what to do for a travel key, thinking it unwise to carry my main one into the Zone, in light of http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/ . One thing I learned from that is apparently I could have been giving dorion_road his !!ups all this time – I hadn't realized! | [00:33] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013871 – certainly a documentation TODO, but safe to skip as dorion_road said. Since for better or worse the gports system works by producing intermediate package files, I figured there'd better be a way to sign & verify them. The step in question is for if you want to include a public key for that in install media. | [00:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 09:36:52 bvt: I have a question to the BUILD document: what does 'Install package signing key(s) in installer/ and update installer/initramfs.list.sh' refer to? is it a TODO item or something i am supposed to do? | [00:55] |
| jfw: | bvt: thanks for the testing and writeup too and I will follow up in comments there. | [00:57] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013885 – noted re Popper recommendation, ty diana_coman | [00:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 13:09:49 diana_coman: for that matter the recommendation holds for anyone else interested ( whaack jfw shrysr ?) | [00:58] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013900 – nice, applied it. | [01:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 18:59:12 whaack: I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [01:00] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm not seeing any chance of finishing catchup Sunday; that would be the main snowballing mentioned earlier. For updated ETA, I'm not sure, maybe I should be checking word counts and such; for now I'll say Tuesday | [02:20] |
| jfw: | to bed | [02:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014918 – good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though? | [04:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:18:01 lobbes: I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so what happened there exactly, did you just spin on the writing or what? | [04:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, such cliffhanger! lolz! | [04:55] |
| diana_coman: | how about talking about it, maybe it would get you unstuck faster, you know? | [04:56] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014946 << I just started way too late in the week really. Early this week was heavy work with the saltmines, and when I got home I was loathing climbing back in front of a monitor again. Didn't really get going until Friday save some misc researching/reading here and there. | [12:13] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 08:45:34 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014918 – good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though? | [12:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:18:01 lobbes: I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [12:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I suppose there's no denying there was quite a bit of spinning. Also I think a kind of numbness to the urgency of getting it done & moving on. Definitely a return to old habit / comfort zone of lounging around pondering things in silence | [12:49] |
| jfw: | lolz, I tried everything except talking about it. Sat at keyboard, lounged on couch, re-read notes, went for walk, listened to some music, wrote whatever random thoughts or possible sentences, wrote sorta-outline | [12:52] |
| dorion: | lobbes thanks for the updates, glad you're making progress. one point I'll alert you on is when you get to partitioning the disk with the installer, double check which /dev/sdX is the install media and which is the internal, target disk. | [12:57] |
| jfw: | I'll have to spoil the cliffhanger to give better context: the bigger part of the thoughts that were hitting me on Wednesday were concerning family & especially parents: history, how things have developed, what's good, what's lacking, what I want there, what's possible, what I can do. | [12:57] |
| dorion: | lobbes I've fdisk'd /dev/sda assuming it was the internal disk in the past and ended up nuking the installer. not the end of the world since you can boot back to the build env and reinstall the install media, but check dmesg on the installer to be sure which is which. | [13:00] |
| jfw: | ty for pointing that out dorion: unless you use one of the uuid type schemes for disk naming, you get whatever order the BIOS / kernel enumerate, which indeed means sda is probably the install media if you're booting from usb. Then lilo.conf might need to be fixed up accordingly. | [13:03] |
| jfw: | ah, this is noted in the example lilo.conf as to why it doesn't include the boot= line so the directions should be fine on that score, but yes caution needed with fdisk/mkfs. | [13:07] |
| jfw: | Sadly the install process is way less explained than the build, so do ask if in doubt. | [13:11] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: btw, I hadn't particularly discussed my tmsr readings or submission here with parents previously. I had pretty much given up discussing politics or philosophy with them based on the results of past attempts; though I find myself cautiously open to reconsidering, as we've all changed at least somewhat since then | [13:31] |
| jfw: | They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [13:35] |
| jfw: | quite as I predicted there was allergic reaction to the qntraflag by my mom, the staunch Lincoln admirer | [13:37] |
| jfw: | I left it at "BingoBoingo likes to use it because the crowd says he can't" | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: There's also the fact that the bunny is black, though iirc cazalla ate him at some point. | [13:41] |
| dorion: | lol, fuck Lincoln. | [13:41] |
| jfw: | anyway the subject matter & readership does add to my perceived importance of writing the Right Thing | [13:41] |
| jfw: | haha, if we get dorion over for dinner it could get quite interesting | [13:42] |
| dorion: | likes to eat rabbit, tastes best when shot with own hands. | [13:42] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: the bunny has a sort of rebellious glare to him, now that I look full-size | [13:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Here there is quite a bit of gigantism going on in the farmed meat breeds. Well over 1.5 kilos dressed and cleaned for sale isn't uncommon. | [13:45] |
| dorion: | i'll never forget first encounter with larouche peeps. they were posted up in front of post office on long island with end the fed signs in 2011. I say, "hmm, what's this about." they hand me fdr (FDR !!!) propaganda. | [13:45] |
| jfw: | yeah their problem with the fed was its restraint, lolz. | [13:47] |
| jfw: | my folks are now ex-larouchies fwiw; what drew them to him remains, but there is perhaps more leeway for independent thought, or speech at any rate. | [13:51] |
| lobbes: | dorion: ty for the heads up on the fdisk step. I didn't know about dmesg so I will be sure to check its output | [13:56] |
| dorion: | lobbes cool, dmesg is a good friend to have :) | [13:57] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/12/wh-review-of-week-13-jan-6th-jan-12th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 13 (Jan 6th – Jan 12th) | [14:02] |
| jfw: | come to think of it, the "problem with the fed was its restraint" quip isn't technically accurate. The issue was more about what the printolade gets spent on; they wanted the emphasis on big infrastructure projects, Science, Education, space programs and such. | [14:14] |
| jfw: | …domestic manufacturing, "the physical economy". Inflation was understood as a monetary phenomenon iirc. | [14:16] |
| jfw: | But back to the subject of me, a main headwind I'm seeing against potential family-of-origin bliss is the militant ignorance that sometimes pops up | [14:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 14:48:28 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013922 – this is militant ignorance speaking; the fact that it's not "interesting to you" means simply that you are totally clueless atm; it is *important* and therefore you should *get interested*, not derp about that oh noez, not interesting to me atm, as if you were some measure of interestingness in this world. | [14:23] |
| jfw: | e.g. regarding Bitcoin, which I must have first talked to them about in 2012. Son devoting substantial activity to it, 1000x price appreciation since then, 11 yrs history, still not a priority to learn about? | [14:25] |
| dorion: | jfw as you know, I've been there. only you can decide how much disinterest / militant ignorance is tolerable. and what are the opportunity costs to tolerating. | [14:30] |
| dorion: | jfw http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-16-Oct-2019#1006570 | [14:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 16:41:06 diana_coman: jfw: for a core principle of mine (and I'd say not only mine but I don't really talk for others): focus on figuring things out for what they are rather than for what you'd want them to be/ find convenient to be | [14:33] |
| jfw: | a twist is that a couple years ago I mighta found it convenient to view them entirely as recalcitrant ignoramuses that I could safely tune out; while the reality is messier. We were able to connect in some ways. I enjoyed being in their company. We resonate on at least some of the frequencies. They have all sorts of knowledge, hard for | [14:49] |
| jfw: | me to judge how practical, and some modicum of usgtronic assets that I'd rather not see go up in smoke. | [14:49] |
| dorion: | jfw I didn't mean to imply it's simple or you ought to do one thing or another other than lay your cards on the table and be as honest as possible with them, see how they take it and let the chips fall where they may. e.g. in their company did you share with them your disappointment of their relative disinterest in what ~you~ think is of vital importance and hence what you've been dedicating your | [14:54] |
| dorion: | life to ? | [14:54] |
| jfw: | re assets, "the system is fragile" argument turns out not to get far with folks who accepted that and believed "crash just around the corner" since at least '73! The attitude now is, could still last a long time and nothing to be done about it anyway | [14:55] |
| jfw: | dorion: thanks, and starting to talk about it more publicly is a big step I think. | [14:56] |
| dorion: | jfw o fo sho | [14:59] |
| jfw: | I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [15:00] |
| jfw: | I (re)learned that my dad struggles with this avoidance/reticence too and even less so than his own father before (who I never knew); and that their wives helped balance this | [15:05] |
| jfw: | helped & help, rather! | [15:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Personally I don't much buy the "system is fragile" line anymore with respect to the US. The collapse up there is already well underway. | [15:06] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: certainly with respect to BTC; are there other yardsticks you'd point to? | [15:08] |
| dorion: | jfw folks thinking it's acceptable to walk outside in pajamas, lol. | [15:10] |
| jfw: | well I'm sure there are, based on your reporting; perhaps a more specific (perhaps difficult) question would be – which do you figure are most (a) meaningful or (b) perceptible in daily life? | [15:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Price of staple foods is a good start. Price of anything made of linen or wool another point. If you want a stong example, as of December 2019 when was the last time US troops were proudly fired upon by a state actor waving its flag? Compare the December 2019 answer to the January 2020 answers. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was there something you wanted to discuss today? | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | is catching up with the #o log, what a nice surprise for once. | [15:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Prices of furniture and other artifacts made of solid wood may be another point along with clothing to press the debasement of just about everything. | [15:13] |
| jfw: | hi diana_coman! looks like most of the points for my article ended up here. | [15:13] |
| jfw: | interesting angles BingoBoingo | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: This is a good starting point for the debasement line http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/ | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I already had this image of you smoking a good old pipe to ponder the depths in silence while the dark and smoke creep around but now you really cemented it! | [15:14] |
| dorion: | if only he dared to smoke, heh. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | well, it depends what one smokes, lol. | [15:16] |
| jfw: | ha! no pipe but some Ouzo was sipped | [15:16] |
| dorion: | "why would I want to inhale combusted plant material ?" | [15:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: This is a great companion to the inflation piece http://trilema.com/2014/the-bezzle-usd-and-the-tide-usd/ | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | well, why inhale recycled airs of others, you know? | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what /why clicked on Wednesday? | [15:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 12:57:56 jfw: I'll have to spoil the cliffhanger to give better context: the bigger part of the thoughts that were hitting me on Wednesday were concerning family & especially parents: history, how things have developed, what's good, what's lacking, what I want there, what's possible, what I can do. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014950 – bewildering things going on in #o? where, where? what did I miss? lolz. | [15:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:35:32 jfw: They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | but I know the reaction, yes; still, everyone is entitled to their reaction, whatever it might be, what. | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014955 – what do you mean here? | [15:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:41:22 jfw: anyway the subject matter & readership does add to my perceived importance of writing the Right Thing | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014957 – cher monsieur Dorion, le gibier manque. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:42:24 dorion: likes to eat rabbit, tastes best when shot with own hands. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-20 16:30:25 diana_coman: and maybe you do write this year that hunting thing too or you'll start 2020 with an audio article le gibier manque et les femmes sont rares | [15:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I had nothing specific to discuss for today. I'm just going to keep working through this build/install and then get that writeup done. I'll get my plan and review out as well | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: sounds good. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014974 – why do you need to swing between the extremes there? | [15:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:49:22 jfw: a twist is that a couple years ago I mighta found it convenient to view them entirely as recalcitrant ignoramuses that I could safely tune out; while the reality is messier. We were able to connect in some ways. I enjoyed being in their company. We resonate on at least some of the frequencies. They have all sorts of knowledge, hard for | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014976 – this is btw perfectly sane, yes. | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:54:52 dorion: jfw I didn't mean to imply it's simple or you ought to do one thing or another other than lay your cards on the table and be as honest as possible with them, see how they take it and let the chips fall where they may. e.g. in their company did you share with them your disappointment of their relative disinterest in what ~you~ think is of vital importance and hence what you've been dedicating your | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014981 – oh, thanks! (and if you ever want *more* of that, just make sure to annoy me thoroughly!) | [15:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:00:53 jfw: I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the cut-right-to-the-point question for you is what do you actually want from them? | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | I'm all caught up with the logs here so do speak. | [15:33] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014994 looks quite as valuable from standpoint of the notion of progress as inflation itself. | [15:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:14:57 BingoBoingo: jfw: This is a good starting point for the debasement line http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/ | [15:34] |
| jfw: | alright diana_coman | [15:34] |
| jfw: | why Wednesday – perhaps partly background thinking coming together over time, but there were some stimuli from the sequence of things I was reading too | [15:36] |
| jfw: | ah, one I didn't mention – http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-03-16#1628151 in the course of research for http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/errata-for-gbw-node-drafts-to-date-and-bitcoin-txid-collisions/ | [15:38] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-03-16 asciilifeform: btw this thread is unpleasantly reminiscent of , e.g., asciilifeform's conversations with his elderly parents , re thebezzle. 'look outside, sky not fallen, not moved a centimetre, you idiot' | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: let me ask this a different way: why is it important to you that your parents see this? | [15:40] |
| jfw: | hm, I don't think I mind what they do or don't see in itself, but as they probably will see what I publish, I get the same kind of hesitation of speaking directly that I do in person | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014971 – dorion, was this what triggered your break from your parents? | [15:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:30:11 dorion: jfw as you know, I've been there. only you can decide how much disinterest / militant ignorance is tolerable. and what are the opportunity costs to tolerating. | [15:44] |
| jfw: | is that clarifying if still stupid? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not fully answering yet that "why is it important to you"? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | so they will see what you publish, sure; they will have one reaction or another, as they see fit, sure; you can't control their reaction anyway, nor should you; you might even predict it though if you understand them well enough for that, sure; nevertheless: why is that important to you? | [15:46] |
| jfw: | hm, not sure I follow the question then. Important to me that they see what specifically? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | and to qualify it properly: why is it more important to you than speaking your truth as you understand it? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, that was ambiguous in my question – I meant why is it important to you that they see things as you do on this matter (or on any really). | [15:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it was. for how much stefan molyneux has been ripped on recently, his words gave me the insight and courage to bring the honesty, evaulate the response and act accordingly. I was 24 when I did it. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: fwiw I will forever remember 2 weeks of ~no sleep when I was 23. They cured me entirely of my parents though and I still think it's called being an adult. | [15:49] |
| jfw: | still here, that definitely clarifies the question, thinking | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | but you know, none of it had anything to do with "be young again" and that's pretty much what both of you, dorion and jfw seem to ask of your parents there. Why? | [15:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't want them to be young again, it was more, "hey, these are issues I'm dealing with that are rooted in my childhood, can we honestly talk about them ?" the response kept coming back as self-justification and disinterest. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ah, that seems a different thing than what jfw is saying though. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | well what comes to mind is, if someone doesn't at least show capacity to consider an argument – and I don't mean to say they don't, just that it's a struggle on some topics – then it's discouraging to speak honestly about it | [15:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that is different than what he's talking about and that was the fundamental part; there was also the part that there would have been way more interest in what I was doing if what I was doing was sportsball. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, I can see it if you say "it's not worth it trying to have this conversation with them" but I don't see in any way how is it discouraging to speak honestly (and esp. the link to honesty, how??) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: heh, to cite my mom : "why do you have to be so DIFFERENT from us???" | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [15:59] |
| jfw: | hrm, I agree, 'openly' is more the word I was looking for | [16:01] |
| whaack: | has been following this thread with interest. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, re holidays-with-mum, that was your choice of holidays, not mine, you know? | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you consider the writing on your blog as having a conversation with your parents? | [16:02] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not really, though conversation may follow | [16:03] |
| whaack: | My attitude towards my parents is something along the lines of ~ "I am thankful for you educating me enough to be able to know the various ways you fucked up." | [16:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman dad, "I don't want you to become a fanatic." (re economics/politics) also dad, "I'm an XYZ fan, I bleed rainbow." | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sure, anything *may follow*; why is that on your mind while writing though? | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahaha; people see what they know best, of course. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lmao; that's such a polite way to say fuck you. | [16:05] |
| dorion: | whaack hey, that's approx what I told them too. "I think you've done better than your parents, in particular because I'm having this conversation with you, this is me furthering the process." | [16:05] |
| dorion: | "I can't appreciate the sunshine without reconginzing there was plenty thunder and lightning." | [16:06] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I don't know why on my mind. It seems like a kind of acting towards purpose. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack, dorion the important part is whether you've made your peace with it all so that it's fully behind you rather than tripping you over unexpectedly as it seems to have happened now a bit with jfw | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that in part with an added side of "their reaction matters strongly to me" | [16:08] |
| jfw: | I suppose in childhood I had to be sensitive to their reactions; but now there's no reason it should matter strongly | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | there was never any problem with their saying/expectations/opinions/whatevers; the only problem (and that one that kept me awake & beyond miserable for 2 weeks) was fully and entirely my own, of course, as it ever is. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha of course I know that it was my choice. and lol yup, that's the jist! There is more resentment towards dad than mom, my dad is a professional bridge player which signals to me he has some cognitive ability that he never applied. My mom worked hard to raise me, but I think her development suffered b.c. she was pretty when younger and thus was [http://trilema.com/2019/why-the-females-of-any-sexuate-species-are-necess | [16:11] |
| whaack: | arily-going-to-be-lazy-stupid-and-annoying/][insulated from improvement] | [16:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I took a two year break and invited them back in after I observed meaningful positive change. it's not perfect today, nor do I expect it to be (I have a lot of work to do myself as has been well documented), but we're moving in the right direction. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what is this right direction? | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so they were this and that; so… what? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | resentment is just another form of "not over it" really. | [16:15] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that what needs to be said can be said and is heard without triggering an emotional outburst. | [16:19] |
| dorion: | lobbes comment in your mod queue. | [16:19] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: if I may ask, what was that only problem that kept you up those two weeks? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it is what it is, I have told them both what I thought in direct words. Mom took it well, dad stopped talking to me. (He would like to / tries talk to me about mundane shit, but I have unanswered questions that I restate when he tries to communicate, and he is unable to bring himself to answer them.) I have settled with a take care of mom and squeeze-dad-for-every-penny attitude. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you are taking on your own shoulders quite a lot there though, to get them over their own emotional outbursts. | [16:21] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: recalling http://ossasepia.com/2019/10/21/and-i-wont-save-you-from-the-rats/ , sounds like a good thing you were so DIFFERENT! | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: my own want to keep both them and myself happy; it was impossibly, it took me that time to figure out such a simple thing and decide which part matters and which one doesn't really. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | impossible* | [16:23] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think I helped foster the environment where they could process, e.g. being absent and recommending they seek therapy to talk with a pro about it all. plus, my father is a manager and through that he's received a lot of training to help process stress more rationally. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't know, fwiw I take mine for exactly what they are and don't feel any need to ask them for anything more than that really; I don't have neither specific expectations nor requests really. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: at significant cost to you. | [16:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman sure. it was costing me more to hang around and self-censor, a form of suicide as I saw it. | [16:30] |
| dorion: | I'm going to step away for a couple hours, will be back later tonight EST. thanks everyone for the convo ! | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: as long as it's not an ongoing cost. | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have any expectations from them. My dad just likes to be used, for example he has a dependopotamus woman living with him that he's been "trying to kick out" for over 2 years. From a cold, rational standpoint I think it's smart to try and ask him for money, etc. If he can't prevent people from using him, he may prefer to be used by his son. I think it's within my right to try, but I don't dedicate much time to t | [16:37] |
| whaack: | his nor do I expect to gain anything. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: makes sense that recognizing an impossibility of keeping both happy would take some doing; and does sound like being an adult indeed. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what is the significant cost you refer to re dorion? perhaps clear to him but not quite to me | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, I can see your point there; do note also that… hm, while he is your father, you are also your father's son, hm? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: he's possibly the best one to ask that question though, isn't he? | [16:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: oh i am aware. that is what makes some of my dislike towards him visceral. i can see some of the worst of myself in him. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so why hate the live warning? | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | not like there's anyone perfect, you know? if it wasn't that, it would have been some other "worst of yourself", what. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah, that question gives a nice way to think of him. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | look at him and learn from it; work on yourself and do the best instead of the worst, that's all. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it had occurred to me the two of you might not be referring to the same cost, but not sure if this holds on the re-read. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I think we are referring to the same cost really but I won't answer a question that is really his if he wants to answer it or not. | [16:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha okay I will stop shutting my eyes to him. maybe my avoidance of my dad has been from a ~ "holllllly shit — THAT's my destiny?" fear. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly; but there's no such thing as "you'll be your father" mainly because – whatever similarities there might be in the genetic makeup – you still are not your father, obviously. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: unrelated, re car, did you sort out fully the house? because the computer is still not built and running anyway. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean sort out fully the house? | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no more stupid problems tolerated around, for starters. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | iirc there was the electrics to look into, last thing. | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The electrics have no grounding wire, but it has not been solved. The other problem is there is an animal that lives on the roof that occasionally invites a girlfriend over at night and makes a fucking racket. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: has talking helped at all? | [17:03] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: helped quite a lot. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | still gotta write the article though, heh. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | and you know, it's there whenever you need it. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | yep | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | talk will stil not do the writing for you, no, it has this downside indeed. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/thoughts-on-shrysr-leaving-younghands-and-asciilifeforms-excommunication/#comment-148 – what's with that "having been the "psychologically dependent" in more than one codependent relationship in my life." ? | [17:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so one surfpal last year in Tamarindo, a tico, moved in with me. I had a nice apartment and we partied for months straight. I let him get away with not paying any rent for ~2.5 months, and I was also paying for the weed we both smoked. I became what I consider "psychologically dependent" not only because I enjoyed his company but also because he constantly invited over girls and guys from all over the world he met in t | [17:24] |
| whaack: | own+surfing. So my social network was being built all through this one heavy node. One day I was invited to a party by some of our mutual friends and I asked "ah is surfpal coming?" They bluntly told me that no, he wasn't invited, and asked why I felt the need to even to ask. Then I had an epiphany of how much I was depending on this guy to make friends and how I was being played for rent. What stuck out to me was that I was concer | [17:24] |
| whaack: | ned about how he would feel if I went to a party without him. | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, a sort of male dependopopotamus?? | [17:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: similar, but it was more of an unstated trade deal where he would do the work to meet friends / pickup girls for me instead of paying rent. he also drove me everywhere surfing. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | well, everything is always an unstated trade deal like that, sure. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you used the plural in that comment though so the above is 1; the rest? | [17:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. the main problem wasn't that part. it was the ~ "what will surfpal think if I go to a party without him?" attitude I started to develop | [17:38] |
| whaack: | typing up the second one | [17:38] |
| whaack: | (sorry one sec, someone came to the door) | [17:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The second one, about five years earlier, was a relationship I had with an ~alcoholic in college. There was no financial imbalance in this relationship (or it was in the other direction, she was a wealthy Wellesley student. – Wellesley is an all girls college 1hr away from MIT, and they have a shuttle that went back and fourth between the two schools.) This relationship was more of a _co_dependency, we were both enabl | [17:57] |
| whaack: | ing avoidance behavior / bad habits. ) I was a freshman and she was a junior, and while I was not a virgin, she was much more sexually experienced than me. I found her unbearable half the time she was sober, and pleasant while drunk. So given these two things, I was happy to enable her drinking (and get drunk myself) and hook up with her. We would spend copious amounts of time during school getting drunk, hooking up, and watching ~ | [17:57] |
| whaack: | netflix. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | apparently that's what school teaches, lol. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if there are more of those, just write them down in one article and be done with it. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright | [18:03] |
| whaack: | and yeah, that fate was not unique to me by any means. I was lucky we didn't get along well – otherwise the draining dissonant resonance may have gone for longer than it did (~1.5 years) | [18:13] |
| whaack: | stepping out for a bit, gn diana_coman and ty for the advice esp. re seeing dad as "live warning" | [18:14] |
| new_yh: | f … | [22:27] |
| dorion: | hello new_yh 6 , how goes and what brings you here ? | [22:35] |
| dorion: | is that a pipe in your name ? | [22:35] |
| new_yh: | f Hey, what's up! | [22:37] |
| new_yh: | f What pipe are you talking about? | [22:37] |
| new_yh: | f I had a question to ask here, but… | [22:38] |
| new_yh: | f I forgot what it was. | [22:38] |
| dorion: | the character between the h and 6 looks like , char 124 in ascii , aka pipe. | [22:40] |
| dorion: | why don't you share about yourself and maybe the question comes back to memory ? | [22:41] |
| new_yh: | f That pipe was unintentional. This username was randomly generated. | [22:43] |
| dorion: | oic | [22:44] |
| new_yh: | f I'm 18yrs old. I've got time on my hands. I'm lost in life, looking for some clarity. | [22:44] |
| new_yh: | f Social skills are a little rusty. I blame my existential crisis. Excuse the shoddy lingo. | [22:45] |
| new_yh: | f Hmm… Nothing comes to mind. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f I think it was a question about Eulora or something… | [22:46] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 well, this ain't the worst place to end up in your search for clarity. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f Good to know. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f Have any other "lost souls" turned up here before? | [22:47] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 this is a good place to ask about Eulora , diana_coman owns this channel and is CTO. | [22:49] |
| dorion: | there is also #eulora. | [22:50] |
| dorion: | but new_yh 6 if you want proper help, best to get yourself a name you actually want and register an RSA key with deedbot. the latter gives people confidence they're actually talking to you. | [22:51] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 did you read younghands.club yet ? | [22:52] |
| new_yh: | f dorion, Yeah, I've been to the site. | [22:54] |
| new_yh: | f I found my way here from a link on that site | [22:55] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 nice. here's a guide to setting up a RSA key and registering with deedbot : http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup | [22:56] |
| new_yh: | f Cool. Thanks | [22:57] |
| new_yh: | f I gotta eat. Brb | [22:57] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 aok. and about clarity, in my experience this is one of the ~better~ places to get it. | [22:58] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6!68f4e76c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.244.231.108 quits [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] << Digicel Jamaica. Right near da beach, boy ! | [23:32] |
#ossasepia Logs for 11 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/11/rmd-plan-jan-11-17th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Jan 11-17th, 2020 | [08:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what happened to you now since this is last anyone heard of you? nothing moves until all caught up by Sunday or what? | [10:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-09 01:37:36 jfw: diana_coman: in other sliding, I didn't get an article out today. I intended to continue the code writeup series, but had trouble engaging; not from lack of materials at hand, but my mind was elsewhere, mainly things I'd been reading and things from the trip. I expect I'll be able to expand on that soon; got some thoughts captured at least. | [10:41] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I've been committing all the sins: not communicating, snowballing problems, wasting time – because I got stuck on writing (felt bad about it all but what does that do?), leaving you to wonder rather than asking for help because of, I dunno, pride or embarassment or stubbornness, probably all three. | [14:44] |
| jfw: | (boy was there a strong finger repulsion field around the Enter key on that line.) | [14:45] |
| jfw: | I've got maybe half of the intended article, though at a reasonable break point; I'm thinking to take a lunch break then re-read and publish what I have. | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: at least got through that finger repulsion field! re feeling bad about it all – it depends what you do with it, otherwise by itself it doesn't do much useful, no; break + re-read + publish sounds reasonable. | [14:49] |
| jfw: | aha. thanks, will do | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes how's that gales install going, did you figure out/ask re uefi or what you needed? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re the uefi I should be good there. I realized that the laptop I have Cuntoo on uses traditional BIOS, so I'm just going to use that machine. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | ah, good then. | [16:09] |
#ossasepia Logs for 10 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | dorion: what happened to you? | [09:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman clawing my way back to normalcy, had still been paying off some sleep debt the past couple days. for the estimate on the catch up: I expect to be caught up on tmsr os threads by Sunday and I'm publishing my next weekly plan today. | [10:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Jan-2020#1014862 << upon reflection, I went into the hawaii trip with pretty low expectations and not much of a plan, figured I'd spend a lot of time doing normal tasks. when I got there I started enjoying myself and then wanted to make the most of that and didn't properly adjust. | [10:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-08 15:52:56 diana_coman: dorion: sounds like some slide back to old habit perhaps. | [10:41] |
| dorion: | whaack tuesday night at 6pm we have junto. our resident composer in training is presenting an intro to music theory. you're welcome to join. if interested, i'll pm you details. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I think by now it might be a good idea to prioritize some comments /talk to people who published their reports re tmsr-os; because from where they are, it's been a week+ and no response at all from you. | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | re work on the cruise, heh; you are so 200\% good intentions, you know? | [10:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ack on tmsr-os comments. | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: talking of music theory – while reviewing Minsky, I found out he actually wrote some articles on quite what I had in mind re writing/reading and music; e.g. Sonata as a Teaching Machine – worth a read. | [10:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 19:06:48 diana_coman: another way to look at it would be from music theory if that rocks your boat better but I didn't get the impression it would. | [10:52] |
| dorion: | thanks for the link, I'll read and share. | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | well, *all* of Minsky is worth a few reads really but since you were interested in that specific topic. | [10:52] |
| dorion: | on good intentions, yeah I see it. it occurs a good aim for the coming weeks/months is to keep as much good intentions, but balance it out with ~realistic~ outlook. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." | [10:54] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [10:56] |
| dorion: | working with you has started the process of bringing more realism, now the challenge is to make the process more endogenous. | [10:57] |
| whaack: | dorion: yes I'd be more than happy to attend, please pm the details | [22:35] |
| dorion: | whaack cool, done. | [22:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 09 Jan 2020
| jfw: | diana_coman: in other sliding, I didn't get an article out today. I intended to continue the code writeup series, but had trouble engaging; not from lack of materials at hand, but my mind was elsewhere, mainly things I'd been reading and things from the trip. I expect I'll be able to expand on that soon; got some thoughts captured at least. | [01:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you keep a journal while away as you said? | [03:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 12:46:55 jfw: likewise curious on the writing, maybe I'll at least keep a journal to stay in something of the habit | [03:40] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, write the things on your mind first, there's no reason not to. | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and he sent me the link to his font rendering library for the demo which is windows only (I had seen the link and at first I didn't realise why I hadn't seen the demo – until I scrolled and found out why,namely windows only). | [03:50] |
| diana_coman: | he does say in answer to one of my questions that he ("we") is working on a 2D vector graphics format too, OpenVGX, to be able to specify 3D geometry + camera view and then render the result as a 2D diagram. | [03:52] |
| diana_coman: | in his view, assets for run-time loading are best transmitted in binary, engine-specific formats. | [03:53] |
| diana_coman: | drat, wrong channel | [03:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I did not. There the notebook lay, waiting quietly and patiently to be used, but got no love until nearly the end. | [13:50] |
| jfw: | Ack on writing what's on my mind first. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | not an unusual fate for those "waiting quietly and patiently" at that; still, why u so mean to notebook! | [13:51] |
| jfw: | haha. | [13:52] |
| jfw: | not sure though, succumbed to distractions I suppose. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | sounds most likely; and given your earlier admission, it was probably an overdue break really. | [13:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-06 00:10:19 jfw: I'll admit a part of me has been reluctant about returning to normalcy – "this can totally go on forever, right??" Though even if it could, I don't imagine I'd stay satisfied for long, with all play and no work as it were, especially with such important work still to be done around here. | [13:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's not like the Montevideo trip included time for rest. | [13:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | Pretty much the opposite. | [13:58] |
| jfw: | heh, walking through the surf was probably the most restful thing there besides bed, yep. | [14:00] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: I saw your studiousness paid off with that mike_c advocate deal (though still behind the times on how it may have proceeded since), a big congrats on that | [14:06] |
| jfw: | well not just study ofc but words & deeds that got you in that position. | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, so ~when is the estimate for your catch-up ? | [14:25] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the above ^ q for you too. | [14:25] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it will be my main focus tomorrow through Sunday. I'll update if it looks like it can't be done by then. | [14:37] |
| jfw: | bbl tonight | [14:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Too early for congratulations on that. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right. | [15:45] |
#ossasepia Logs for 08 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | whaack: writing on your own blog is among the "relaxing activities" with reading and studying Spanish, so it doesn't get entirely put on hold for 2 weeks now, does it? | [07:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion see in #t | [07:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was planning on writing 2-3 for the two week period, but I will stick to the bidaily writing exercise if you think it best. | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any reason why it would *not* be best? | [09:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: If I stuck to a strict 1.5 hour a day of writing then it would be no problem, but I have a habit of letting it go over time | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so don't let it go over time during those 2 weeks and get to see also how that works out. | [09:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I like writing on my blog, but I can't say I categorize it as a 'relaxing activity' | [09:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, it's the sort of learnt relaxation. | [09:30] |
| whaack: | i understand how that is so | [09:33] |
| whaack: | in other news, I've been having a blast driving a rental hyundai tuscon. I'm zipping by people swerving around dodging holes instead of inching along in the pathfinder like a snail while having even bicyclists pass me. | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, cool then! | [09:48] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Jan-2020#1014842 << copa delivered the luggage at 9pm monday ftr, not sure wtf happened cause they told me at the airport it didn't arrive to panama, but whatevs. | [13:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-06 13:52:15 dorion: copa lost one of my bags, so that hasn't exactly helped things, but I'll survive. | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the silence was more re blog & tmsr-os comments for people who delivered the promised articles or at least that's how I'd take it. | [13:29] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, there was a lot of quality content published. I read, but didn't play my part in commenting. not exactly sure why atm, but do know I have those debts to pay down now. | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sounds like some slide back to old habit perhaps. | [15:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 06 Jan 2020
| jfw: | I'll admit a part of me has been reluctant about returning to normalcy – "this can totally go on forever, right??" Though even if it could, I don't imagine I'd stay satisfied for long, with all play and no work as it were, especially with such important work still to be done around here. | [00:10] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-6-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 6 2020 | [02:42] |
| diana_coman: | wb jfw ! And it all sounds like a great vacation really, good for you. Looking forward to the photo articles too. | [03:36] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm on the last stretch of mine as well, currently sitting at gate in las vegas, expected to touch down in panama 10am tomorrow. | [03:40] |
| dorion_road: | I'll probably go straight to sleep when I get back, this past week was probably my all time low in the sleep category and have 5hr time shift and back to back nights on a plane, but overall I'm feeling quite rejuventated and really excited to write it out and get back on rhythm. | [03:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: safe travel then and certainly get some rest too; glad to hear it was rejuvenating anyway. | [04:10] |
| dorion: | is back on the ground in panama. I'll voice in #t after some sleep. | [13:51] |
| dorion: | copa lost one of my bags, so that hasn't exactly helped things, but I'll survive. | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | welcome back to the ground then dorion, hopefully the bag follows too; and no rush otherwise. | [13:55] |
| dorion: | thanks diana_coman | [13:56] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/wh-review-of-week-12-dec-30th-jan-5th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 12 (Dec 30th – Jan 5th) | [15:10] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/wh-plan-for-week-13-jan-6th-jan-12th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan for Week 13 (Jan 6th – Jan 12th) | [15:10] |
#ossasepia Logs for 05 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent another long day on TheFleet and published my article. I said I would publish a plan for building my computer but instead all I had time for was to publish my disassembling notes. I also said I would take inventory of the parts but I did not yet go through all the cables. | [02:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-02 16:22:49 whaack: I will do that now and publish a plan for building my computer as my article for tomorrow and otherwise get back to working on TheFleet for now. | [02:43] |
| whaack: | I should have my review / plan for the week done by tomorrow. But I am not 100\% sure I will, because of my mother's arrival and everything having been pushed from me trying to get TheFleet running. | [02:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014609 – how about Sundays 7:30pm utc ? | [04:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 20:38:45 lobbes: diana_coman: I can definitely see how this can be an in depth discussion. You know, I think we have at least two items in a conversation queue now, so I wonder if we oughta have like a standing meeting at a certain interval? | [04:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014610 – ahahaha, the beauty of lisp, right? lmao. | [04:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:17:17 whaack: diana_coman: I have my bot running now connected to 7 networks with a more robust reconnect feature. I am capped at 7 because of memory issues – the problem is I load quicklisp in my environment which by itself is ~70MB. So a next step is to figure out how to load my dependencies without quicklisp. | [04:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in any case, 7 will have to do for the pilot test, so at least there's that. | [04:25] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: since you've been working on mp-wp anyway, what would your thoughts be on a mp-wp plugin for vpatches display+review? As hinted a bit earlier around here. | [04:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-29 12:01:05 trinque: incidentally this is a tool I want, a commentary tool for vpatches. | [04:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014610 – ahahaha, the beauty of lisp, right? lmao. << to see the beauty you just need Lisp Memory Usage Positivity | [11:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:17:17 whaack: diana_coman: I have my bot running now connected to 7 networks with a more robust reconnect feature. I am capped at 7 because of memory issues – the problem is I load quicklisp in my environment which by itself is ~70MB. So a next step is to figure out how to load my dependencies without quicklisp. | [11:37] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-05#1014632 << sounds good to me. Thank you! | [11:58] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-05 08:15:57 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014609 – how about Sundays 7:30pm utc ? | [11:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 20:38:45 lobbes: diana_coman: I can definitely see how this can be an in depth discussion. You know, I think we have at least two items in a conversation queue now, so I wonder if we oughta have like a standing meeting at a certain interval? | [11:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I connected to 7 more networks on another VM. | [12:01] |
| whaack: | a few were banned / dropped so the total connected right now is ~9 | [12:05] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: yeah, i think that would be great to have. i'm imagining something like phf's patch viewer with the added ability to add inline comments | [12:33] |
| billymg: | btw, whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009221 << finally did this | [12:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:15:58 whaack: billymg: you should put an avatar on billymg.com | [12:37] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: in mp-wp, i could see the addition of a new post type and comment type. let's say post_type="vpatch", and this is selectable from within the mp-wp UI when creating a new post. if this post type is selected, the user gets an additional <textarea> where they can paste the full contents of a vpatch. this text is stored in a new column in the posts table, e.g. post_code. when rendered, post_content will | [12:57] |
| billymg: | be rendered first, followed by post_code (which will be formatted similar to the existing patch viewer) | [12:57] |
| billymg: | alternatively, instead of pasting the vpatch contents into a <textarea>, it could prompt the user to upload a .vpatch file, store it in a sensible (organized) directory, and store a reference to the file in a new column on posts, e.g. post_code_filepath. the rendering would be the same | [12:58] |
| billymg: | i personally like the latter because it would result in a cleaner UI and doesn't require copy/pasting a vpatch into a text area (which just seems cumbersome). also, depending on the size of some patches, this avoids blowing up the mysql database | [13:01] |
| billymg: | line-level commenting would require a minimal amount of JS (just enough to insert an inline comment box at a given line number) | [13:03] |
| billymg: | less clear is how revisions after a discussion would be handled. perhaps just a new published article after the author addressed all of the comments in the first round | [13:04] |
| billymg: | and this is just off the top of my head, i figure after some discussion here i could spend some time publishing a formal spec for the feature (for review) before starting any code | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: there might be 2 parts to it and not even necessarily tied together really | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | the upload vpatch + store in sensible place is really a script that can even be outside mp-wp, not much to do with the mp-wp itself | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | for the text/article itself though, why not make it simply a different type of tag? e.g. like one has 1 for footnotes, use [[]] or something else for "this is vpatch content"? | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | I think the whole viewing + reviewing can happen perfectly fine on the existing blog article structure, can't it? | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | all it needs is this new tag+corresponding plugin to do the formatting (perhaps similar to that vpatch viewer, sure) | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | and then the comments to the post can simply reference that | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | if/when there's a new version of the vpatch, it's up to whoever *signs* the new vpatch to publish it as a new article, no? | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | I wouldn't really go otherwise much along the slippery path of "automate a vpatch's lifecycle" because of the fundamental of V that *reading* is authorship of code (and that can't be automated really). | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: re inline comments – would it be possible for the plugin to update the article's content to provide perhaps inline links to the relevant comments or something of this sort? | [13:16] |
| billymg: | that makes sense. my reason for not suggesting the route of [[]] or similar was out of consideration for very large vpatches | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | but tbh I think this is one of the situations where it's perhaps better to wait and see what is actually *needed* because it's unclear to me that at this stage, before any serious use, one can fully tell really | [13:16] |
| billymg: | i think [[]] works well for snippets of code, but not entire thousand+ line vpatches | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | ie you risk overspecifying/making choices too quickly/before knowing the problem really | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: very large vpatches are a bit of trouble in themselves | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | I know we still end up with those but …they *are* trouble so I wouldn't base the viewer on them. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | because also, who the fuck reads thousand+ line vpatch? | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | maybe it's for the better if this even *forces* one to split the damned thing. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: also, why wouldn't it work well anyway? not like there aren't otherwise articles of thousands of words published fine with mp-wp? | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: would you care to add your view/ideas on this thread? | [13:20] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: >billymg: also, why wouldn't it work well anyway? not like there aren't otherwise articles of thousands of words published fine with mp-wp? << yes, true | [13:21] |
| billymg: | re: uploading inside mp-wp, i think it was the concept of code shelves that brought me to this (along with the idea of separating code from article content) | [13:22] |
| billymg: | as in, if a code shelf is a concept inside mp-wp, then that justifies mp-wp having some features for managing that shelf | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: on one hand I can see the appeal of having mp-wp basically maintain the code shelf as simply an automatically updated page with all vpatch+sigs uploaded, sure | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | but otoh why mix it with the discussion /review of code (since perhaps I even want to discuss some vpatch *before*/without adding it yet to my shelf for instance?) | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | and also: what's the separation you see between code and article content? the way I see it, for some code review, the code may very well *be* the article content, no? and the reviews are the comments, naturally. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: you might have made for yourself 2 pieces of work ([[]] + shelf mgm) instead of 1, heh. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | the additional potential trouble that I see if you go the route of having [[]] take directly the vpatch from disk rather than its text is that any annotations you add inline to it would then be separated from the text? | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | aka you end up with that situation where the content of your article is partially in db and partially on disk; it's already rather annoying that this is the case to some extent for wp (eg categories iirc and at any rate, images…) | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | not sure I see the case for extending that sort of situation. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | and uhm, I'd much, much rather have *no* JS whatsoever. | [13:35] |
| billymg: | i didn't mean that publishing an article would automatically add the vpatch to the code shelf, only that the concept of a code shelf hosted in mp-wp makes mp-wp somewhat of a code hosting tool as well. and since mp-wp is being used to host the code, it follows that this would be a logical place to discuss/review the code as well (not in the shelf, but elsewhere in mp-wp) | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: sure. | [13:42] |
| billymg: | is thinking about the other comments… | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | no rush. | [13:43] |
| billymg: | ok, annotations from the author is something i didn't factor in. this would be much more complicated than necessary if the vpatch is stored on disk (UI would need to render the vpatch after upload and allow the user to annotate before publishing, ugh) | [13:49] |
| billymg: | re: stored in [[]] in post_content vs. stored in post_vpatch_code, i think with footnotes they are always tied to the article that contains them. vpatches are more portable. it makes sense to be able to display them inline in an article (for discussion/annotation), but they can also stand alone (be downloaded by a reader, be moved/promoted to the code shelf when ready) | [13:52] |
| billymg: | it gives more flexibility for later display or retrieval of all the code in ones mp-wp, rather than having to parse post_content looking for [[]] | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: the .vpatch file + the .sig file surely need of course to be standalone files too, there was no idea of NOT having them separate too; just NOT mixing the two at all: there's .vpatch files and those are indexed by the code shelf (which is singular because it's meant as one single entry point) and then there is – to the extent the author makes/wants it- a bunch of articles that discuss vpatch contents (and this can be … | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | … anything,even just parts of a vpatch at the end of the day, even not yet signed vpatch etc) | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | so certainly not parsing post_content, no. | [13:56] |
| billymg: | re: no javascript. yes, inline commenting could be done in the regular comment box if the commenter adds some annotation, e.g. ">>path/to/file.php#L22 comment text follows…" | [13:56] |
| billymg: | and then when rendered that comment is displayed at the correct file/line number | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: perhaps the [[]] can simply add html hooks for each line and then commenters can use those, right? | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | my potential suggestion – but more of an idea for laters, if needed – was to have it work backwards as well ie when a comment is approved, to collect the ref to any line-html hook and then update to add there a link to the comment; it might be overkill, not needed anyway, I don't really know atm, just throwing it out there. | [13:58] |
| billymg: | what do you mean by an html hook? | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: I meant an anchor for each line of code; but come to think of it, there's in principle already the selection mechanism, might even be enough, hm. | [14:02] |
| billymg: | ah, no, the anchor makes sense, e.g. <a href="#L22"> (the server-side selection mechanism still relies on a #select anchor to scroll to the selection) | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: yes, exactly. | [14:04] |
| billymg: | i was thinking that file name would need to be encoded in the anchor as well, but i see now that in the existing patch viewer the line numbers are cumulative | [14:05] |
| billymg: | not per file | [14:05] |
| billymg: | typing "#L22" at the beginning of a comment to make it render inline doesn't seem too bad | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, no need for more than that really; and it has this advantage that I see that one can in principle update the text too to list there for each line the links to comments that refer it (basically the non-js automated inline annotations if you want) | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | something like that; if it turns out it's useful. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | I need to go now but I'll be back in ~1.5 hours or so. | [14:07] |
| billymg: | ok, i'll think on this some more, and watch for additional comments from others | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: btw, if you publish your plan, we can start with that later today. | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: sure and if you publish some plan, I'll certainly read it. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [14:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: sounds good. I just published the plan now, should be coming through feedbot soon. I'll brb in ~7 mins | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: read it; what happened to the mp-wp polish idea as it seems entirely dropped? | [15:50] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well I'm still going to work through that today. Probably another 4 hours or so dedicated to it left | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: ah, so you aim to finish it today then? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I aim to at least get it up and running on the 'prod server' along with some rudimentary manual testing of bits | [15:54] |
| lobbes: | by the end of today, that is | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | ok, just don't let it drop afterwards in that forever-started-on state | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | taking the topics in order, there was the procrastination question – did you figure out anything re why? | [15:56] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is a good point on the dropping. I will add it to my "Things that I need to think on" items in this week's plan just in case there is spillover | [15:56] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/05/ejb-plan-week-3-jan-6-jan-12/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 3 (Jan 6 – Jan 12) | [15:57] |
| lobbes: | as for the procrastination q, the best thing I could up with besides "I'm just being lazy" is that it is some sort of instant gratification vs delayed gratification thing | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: hm; do/did you ever have any project/something you actually found it easy /fast to start on? | [15:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: if it is something that I keep 'loaded in my head' already then I usually have no issue picking it up / putting it down day-to-day. If that makes sense. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: it covers one part – it is easier to start on and therefore you start, yes. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do you procrastinate the same on relatively simpler tasks? because it starts sounding possibly related to the "too big jump in one step" simply. | [16:04] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: it is true that I don't really procrastinate on small things that I can get my head around quickly. It does seem to be more with things that I am unsure of where to start on | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | kind of ties in with your preference for clearly stated & neatly ordered stuff, yes. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | so break stuff into smaller & clearer steps and if unable /unsure of that, maybe just ask for more specific direction to get you started & anyway, until you start getting the hang of this part too | [16:07] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this makes sense. I will do just that | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | laziness is essentially just a signal like many others. | [16:08] |
| lobbes: | I never really thought of it like that before, but it does make sense | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | heh, I have yet to meet a single person (me included!) who has never been/can't be lazy, lol. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: re bugs & testing, what was your question there to start with? because it seems more like an overall confusion tbh so not sure where to start you from on that. | [16:11] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, I think I get your meaning on the "will eliminate possibility of bugs" point and on the "learning code is like writing well, you won't improve overnight by some series of steps" | [16:14] |
| lobbes: | but wrt to testing in an automated fashion, this is something I've never done | [16:14] |
| lobbes: | *will never eliminate possibility of bugs | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you can improve anything by a series of steps – it just needs to be the steps that fit the cause of the trouble, not the steps that fit the result of the trouble, generally speaking, lol. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: hm, let's see then from beginning: what's a bug? | [16:16] |
| lobbes: | I guess I'd generally define a bug as 'behavior that is unwanted' | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | unwanted by whom? | [16:17] |
| lobbes: | by whomever is the authority of those using the code I suppose | [16:18] |
| lobbes: | or the authority of the environment that the code will run within | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: heh, in that case what are you even testing there? if I run it on my comp, I'll find bugs because my authority vs yours or what? | [16:20] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm, well I mean in the case of the mp-wp-bot, MP is paying me for a product, and he gave a spec. So in this case he'd be the authority I reason; or the one to determine 'this is a bug / this is not a bug' | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: but in that case you can't test without him by your side, no? | [16:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, I do have the specifications he gave me. I can test against that without him present | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: aha, so your def of bug is wrt to spec: a difference between specified behaviour vs actual behaviour of your code. | [16:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, I would agree with that | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | heh, it's one of the usual definitions, yes. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, next step then: since a bug is defined as above, what would "thorough testing" of some code mean? | [16:24] |
| lobbes: | I'm thinking at a minimum I'd be running a series of tests that would show me that the bot's actual behavior lines up to specified behavior | [16:26] |
| lobbes: | but I guess I see what you mean by "how to define thorough" | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: there is even quite a large body of uhm, effort let's say, poured into what is technically called formal specification precisely with a view towards formal verification aka "as thorough as it gets when testing god dammit" ; preferably even formal *proof* of correctness (which is even pushing it further). | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: at any rate, if you want "thorough", you'd need to take the spec, extract all desired behaviour at the very least and then check that; there is of course further trouble caused by all sorts, not least of which…how do you actually check? | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | which brings us neatly to the very problem with testing itself as an activity: say you have a very neat and simple spec, it just says program should give result A to input B | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | so you'll test that simple thing – how? | [16:35] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: in that example I would input B, and see if I get A | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: right; how many times? | [16:36] |
| lobbes: | statistically, I think I 'should' do 20 times for a sample population. But now I'm starting to see the issues.. | [16:37] |
| lobbes: | i.e. if I have 100 inputs.. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; statistically based on what …assumptions? you do know that *each* statistical model in fact has some very cumbersome assumptions (although in general they are never mentioned and ~always silently assumed only, mainly because it's convenient) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | (or rather: because otherwise wtf are we to do???) | [16:38] |
| lobbes: | yeah, lol. I do recall some heavy assumptions back in my stats 101 days (and really with anything to do with 'models', be they financial models or whathaveyou) | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: above your population of inputs has only one item so not exactly *that* the trouble even, no; the trouble is that your code is running in a whole environment and it's not in fact as isolated of it as you'd like to think; what if it's a pointerfuck that reads nonsense on the 100001th attempt for instance? | [16:40] |
| lobbes: | this does makes sense on the 'can't isolate' point; you'd need to know the totality of the environment, which is very expensive | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | then there is of course the slightly more complicated spec that is still very simple: program should do simple addition of integers; how are you going to thoroughly test even the *inputs* on this one? | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: not to mention that then it will get run in a different environment anyway and given current state of "software", you can't guarantee anything really. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do you know what black box and white box testing are? | [16:45] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I do not | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | eh, so there's a whole to say on testing alone to start with; but even beyond that, the fundamental there is essentially that a test that passes does *not* give you any information as to the correctness of the code really | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's only a test that fails which tells you something useful | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | and that something useful is "this is surely broken" | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | however, the opposite of that (this is surely NOT broken) can *never* be found out just from testing, no matter how much you test it there. | [16:48] |
| lobbes: | hm, I see what you mean. So really, the most I can aim for is "simply not found to be broken yet" | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | if you are really curious, there are even studies re how many bugs one finds on what amount of time spent for testing (and even when having a more informed approach to testing rather than the naive one) | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | the main result though is that some tests are useful (because most bugs are found through some use, basically) but then it's too much trouble to search for them through this sort of method. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: pretty much, yes. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | now back to black/white box because it's a simple and otherwise useful thing: black box means that you don't look inside – basically you consider it as a whole of which you are interested strictly only in inputs and outputs | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | so you design tests based solely on whatever correspondence of inputs/outputs you have | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | white box means that you DO take into account the insides of whatever it is, in this case of your code | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | hence you design tests based *also* on the code itself | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | for both of those, there are specific strategies based essentially on heuristics of "most likely ways/places in which code breaks" | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: the most useful part of this whole thing and the main reason why I went in such detail for you here is that the approach as a whole is more generally valid though, it's not just specific to software. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | whatever you are interested in and you are trying to understand or assess – if you go at it by "testing", you'll have quite the same type of trouble (only probably magnified because more complex than software) | [16:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm okay. This is all helping quite a bit. So if I understand correctly, when testing something I should be focusing primarily on a black box testing approach with an eye towards tests that are most likely to illuminate the most bugs | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: why do you say focus on black box primarily? | [16:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm, I misunderstood you above when you said 'approach as a whole'; I equated that to the black box testing (since you said that is when you consider it as a whole) | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: no; the approach is all the above, lol. | [17:01] |
| lobbes: | now I gotcha | [17:02] |
| lobbes: | so, I have a few q's: for one, what is the benefit anyway to testing separately like that (looking at code vs not), and two, how do I know which tests will illuminate the most bugs? | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | black box means considering an item as a whole (different stuff!) | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: they tend to catch different bugs & black box frees you from what you "think/know the code should do" esp if it's your code & in some cases you can't do the white box; you can't know upfront really; if you want to choose only one approach, you'd go for white box rather than black box at all times. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: or do you mean how to design the tests for either? | [17:04] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ah okay, I understand what you mean now on 'why do separate white/black box testing'. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | in a nutshell, for black box testing you'd partition the inputs space into whatever partitions are relevant + choose testing inputs so you cover each partition through at least one value + all boundaries (because that's the most usual case of fail) | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | for white box testing, you'd aim in principle to cover at least once all the control and data flows in your code. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | this would be the most basic stuff really. | [17:07] |
| lobbes: | this makes sense, thank you! | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: see, the power of a few questions; you're welcome. | [17:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, I definitely have a much better plan of attack for testing this bot now. However, I definitely think I'll need to plan more time to work on it as well | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | re automated testing, the idea is that you write them once but you can run them as many times as you need and that is *very* useful for next time when you change something/add something to the code. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: one important implication of that limitation of what you can find by testing is that it's *always* a much better pay off in the long term to not have to test much ie to know what it does rather than test for what it does. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | again, extremely relevant and valid for life, not only for code. | [17:11] |
| lobbes: | I can definitely see the general applications of that advice, that is for sure | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you have further stuff to implement for mp-wp? | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | I seem to recall something else to enable a move from current display of logs. | [17:14] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hmm, well I mean that is the bot. It'll display the logs in the blogs (as seen in my haphazard testing blog) | [17:16] |
| lobbes: | though now that you mention it there was a related change to the xmlrpc.php I had to make; I'll need to vpatch that too at some point | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: does it update in db if it's current log? | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | more to the point: what would I need to do in order to have the content of currently logged channels spit out in real time into corresponding daily articles on my blog? | [17:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: you'd just need to press my mp-wp-bot vpatches, configure it for your mp-wp install database, and then run the bot | [17:19] |
| lobbes: | though I do still need to release a second vpatch that is not found in above link | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: so perhaps once you are done, you do that & illustrate it since you have a logger running anyway, right? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: also, why the latency throughout? | [17:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: sure thing, like put together an install manual on my blog? | [17:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: am I slow to respond? I'm honestly just this slow lol | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes; preferably after you had it running and basically living proof that everything is working great. | [17:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'd love that. Sounds like a plan to me | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: relatively slow, yes; and at times visibly slow, to the point I wonder if I lost you/ it's too much in one go, lol. | [17:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: nah, sometimes I'll just be reading and grokking, though sometimes I can sense you are moving a point along so I'll let you finish | [17:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'll let you know if it ever becomes too much in one go. So far it hasn't been for me | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: the let finish part is fine, obviously. | [17:24] |
| lobbes: | kk | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: btw, it's not like it has to be a meeting spec as such; you know I tend to be around from about 7pm on most days so you know, just ask then/say something, it's fine | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, anyone else | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was there anything else? | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: makes sense, and good to know. Though (and I think dorion_road mentioned this at some point for himself) I kind of like scheduled meetings. idk why | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: nothing else from my end | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | heh, you like scheduled everything, don't you | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | though this was very helpful, so thank you again for your time | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | hahaha for some things, yes I do! | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do note though that you keep pushing those remaining 2 articles | [17:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: noted | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | there's always some reason to push them to next week, ahem; so I'd say 2 pushes is fine, but then can't push it 3rd time. | [17:28] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, I'll make sure I get working on article 2 by week 4 | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | good; and you're welcome. | [17:28] |
| lobbes: | will bbl; food | [17:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Nothing to add other than I fired up fleetbot on another VM. I will finish my weekly report by the end of tomorrow. | [22:32] |
| whaack: | billymg: nice re avatar! you're arriving in CR pretty soon right? | [22:37] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/ejb-review-week-2-jan-2-jan-5/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 2 (Jan 2 – Jan 5) | [22:53] |
| billymg: | whaack: yessir, already in touch with a shipping company and planning logistics in general | [23:19] |
| billymg: | very much looking forward to it | [23:25] |
| jfw: | Hi all! I'm back in Panama, and have been resting up and settling in and starting on what promises to be a lengthy and interesting catchup. | [23:35] |
| jfw: | Vacation was great: I relaxed, hung out with Robinson & family, then my own direct & some extended family (Christmas dinner with 11 adults and six under-10 kiddos, quite the whirlwind!); solved assorted simple household problems; got in some hiking, some sightseeing, a bunch of driving, and finally skiing at Sunday River – still sore in all the right ways. Looking forward to sharing some photos. | [23:54] |
- [↩]
#ossasepia Logs for 04 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I missed the deadline for my article today. I worked on TheFleet all day again to try to get the bots online before I'm going to be away from my terminal. I obtained the max-chan-per-nick for my networks, setup join/part logging as well as kicked-from-chan logging, ^ switched the unique ids to pids + changed the db schema to have a specific fleetbotlogs table, created a deploy script, and then ran it. I ran | [01:29] |
| whaack: | out of RAM on my VM so I am only connected to 8 networks right now. I need to fix my script so that it takes good care to keep its memory usage minimal. There also seems to be an error with the reconnect functionality. | [01:29] |
| whaack: | and by 'connected to 8 networks' i mean i have 8 sbcl processes running, since a random few of them got cleaved due to running out of memory and since my disconnect logging is not working, i am not exactly certain which networks i'm connected to atm. | [01:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, a test of sorts it sounds like, at least; that out of memory thing sounds gross though. | [04:52] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Jan-2020#1014544 – I can see that; otoh though, how would you order them? I can see the case perhaps for both UUIDs and pids but having just one still keeps a set of problems around. | [04:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 23:05:12 trinque: I didn't want to be in the business of worrying about renumbering log lines if I merged logs from two sources, and had previously said all manner of things about that log-line by foreign-key reference | [04:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Jan-2020#1014478 – it actually exceeded expectations on pretty much every front. I took a lot of pictures the past 2 days and will have an article to publish, so will spare details now. I disembark tomorrow morning local time, then have back to back red eye flights with stop over in las vegas and arrive to panama Monday morning. it'll be quite the relief | [08:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 05:34:05 diana_coman: dorion_road: how's the cruise? | [08:11] |
| dorion_road: | to get my routine and rhythm in motion again. | [08:11] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: oh hey, sounds good; though on the article front, dunno, does it beat hunting then or what? | [09:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: re memory there is an easy fix i can do, right now each process unnecessarily keeps in memory the entire list of networks + all their channels. that is at least 5mb per process right from the start | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aha, no need to keep that in memory really, no. | [15:49] |
| trinque: | diana_coman: what problems do UUIDs cause? | [15:53] |
| trinque: | arguably they're a waste of space, in that all that might ever be said would fit in an int32 | [15:54] |
| trinque: | at any rate, what makes a good key for a row of data is an interesting problem | [15:56] |
| trinque: | I've long thought that eventually all this data in people's bots would be chattered among the bots to each other. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: I didn't say they were a waste a space, no; and ftr I can state it also: no, they are not a waste of space. | [15:57] |
| trinque: | just asking for your opinion of the problems they cause, not saying you're wrong. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | I just think that both UUIDs and PIDs are needed because they serve different purpose really | [15:58] |
| trinque: | sure, UUID doesn't tell you which you saw first, for instance | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: exactly; and this matters for log lines because timestamp is such a mess that you can't rely on it. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | UUIDs otoh are useful precisely for identifiers though one can argue that you can always calculate on the fly some hash | [16:00] |
| trinque: | yep, hash is perhaps much more appropriate a (somewhat) universal reference | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | the way I see it, as long as it's one db, might as well go with auto-increment since there's no loss as such; if/when mixing dbs, can identify same/different via a hash and otherwise if/when needed add perhaps another level of ref (e.g. provenance ) or otherwise still just calc and add hash at that time | [16:02] |
| trinque: | renumbering is quite the bitch, can be made easier by "on update cascade" | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, I was honestly curious as to why you chose that (and I hadn't caught /recalled what you said re log-line by foreign-key ref http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Jan-2020#1014544 ) | [16:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 23:05:12 trinque: I didn't want to be in the business of worrying about renumbering log lines if I merged logs from two sources, and had previously said all manner of things about that log-line by foreign-key reference | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | yes, renumbering is a bitch; otoh database design has anyway some tensions as soon as the whole thing is worth anything so I doubt there's a one/single/ideal/perfect solution there. | [16:05] |
| trinque: | for sure, tradeoffs in all directions | [16:05] |
| whaack: | i will likely have to merge dbs further down the line in this project. i need to route through multiple ips to bypass the max-connections-per-host limit. i was originally planning to still have everything running on one server and just go through proxies, but i realize that trying to log absolutely all irc network activity is likely an exercise in DDOSing myself | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you need to produce first a clear report re all those numbers, you know? what decision can one make on this sort of shaky sands of there-is-this-limit and that-limit but dunno exactly . | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | don't attempt to build the whole thing out of incremental blind adjustments; it'll end up a mess quite predictably. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | blind & undocumented* | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, each chan should be in a single db though, right? I don't see why would a single chan end up split across several dbs so not sure there's much actual trouble merging otherwise. | [16:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i will try to be more forward thinking with my design. i am still repeating that bad habit of "incremental adjustments" | [16:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes a single channel would never be split accross dbs | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, did that MIT ever mention development methodologies at all? lolz | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, if you have a use case for those UUIDs, you should have argued it and kept them in; if you don't, then they are not in. | [16:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i blame myself for not taking advantage of MIT. but the default software system design class that I took was a how-to-java class | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there is some space and even need for incremental, sure, but it's not all-there-is. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | so then programming language class was what? | [16:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean programming language class? I didn't take any class on language design or any class that *intended* to teach to a specific language | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: software system design means > how-to-any-language | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | ie by the name it actually intended to teach something other than a language; and otherwise hm, no..introductory programming course or something lower level (that I could see focusing on how-to-x-language)? | [16:27] |
| whaack: | http://stellar.mit.edu/S/course/6/fa14/6.005/materials.html "Software Construction" was the name of the class | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha; why not "nuts and bolts that java holds" | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyways, I guess I still haven't fully grokked the current MIT; don't take it to heart. | [16:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thanks lol. I would not major in CS if I went there again, my advisor warned me against it and i did not listen. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what did they advise for? | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | "against it" is easier than "for it", lolz. | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: He said anything else I was interested in. His argument was not that the CS curriculum was bad, but that I would probably learn CS on my own time, and that I wouldn't be taking full advantage of resources at mit by majoring in cs. (i.e. why not major in mechanical engineering and learn how to use a mil lathe?) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | good point really; so… why didn't you? | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had decided that for sure I wanted to major in cs and stubbornly closed myself to his input | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | (normally there would have been a retort to that "point" of your advisor but possibly not by that time anymore so they were right either because they knew CS well enough or because they didn't know it well enough, lol) | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | ah, so ~the mech eng is not fashionable enough and lathe is not lisp. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | the intro class freshman year was also fun and imo well run. we programmed little vehicles that used sonar sensors to get information about their surroundings to solve mazes | [16:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ pretty much | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | btw the moment one says that "you'll learn X on your own time", that *means* the curriculum is bad; because if you can indeed learn it just the same on your own time then sure, wtf "university" | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | and the sane retort to what I suspect is his different background simply rather than much more than that would have been that ahem, you can also learn to use mil lathe on your employer's money later on as needed but you'll never get access again to far more valuable resources such as Minsky, | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | as in "working with Minsky"; but myeah. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | they do a career fair at the beginning of the year too, and it's a big event for the SV circus show, all the cs majors are getting 5-0/hour internships for the summer while the other majors generally struggle to find jobs | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | I can imagine. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: re your search for bugs, the whole discussion can easily go through CS, Maths, Logics and Philosophy in a single paragraph too, lol; might fit better in a conversation or as an article if you want to look at that bit in more depth. | [17:07] |
| lobbes: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/24/ejb-plan-week-2-jan-2-jan-5/#comment-261 << diana_coman: I've not really ever tested in an automated fashion before. I just kinda manually try to break things as I go (and really even then I'm not too organized in exactly what to be testing for). | [20:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I can definitely see how this can be an in depth discussion. You know, I think we have at least two items in a conversation queue now, so I wonder if we oughta have like a standing meeting at a certain interval? | [20:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have my bot running now connected to 7 networks with a more robust reconnect feature. I am capped at 7 because of memory issues – the problem is I load quicklisp in my environment which by itself is ~70MB. So a next step is to figure out how to load my dependencies without quicklisp. | [22:17] |
| whaack: | actually i may be able to use asdf:load-system instead, i see that in trinque's ircbot | [22:24] |
| whaack: | err in trinque's ircbot USAGE file | [22:24] |
| whaack: | trinque: I think I may understand this if you never got around to it. The thread that normally calls ircbot-reconnect is the ircbot-ping-thread. However the ping-thread commits suicide because ircbot-disconnect calls (sb-thread:terminate-thread (ircbot-ping-thread bot)) . So when the ping thread calls ircbot-reconnect after calling ircbot-disconnect it never gets to the ir | [22:56] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-02-07 trinque: now that we're at something of a cuntoo interude while folks are testing, I'll find some time to figure out what deedbot gags on time to time re: reconnecting | [22:56] |
| whaack: | cbot-connect or ircbot-connect-thread. If you test ircbot-reconnect (in the repl or such) you will not see the bug because then ircbot-reconnect is being run from a different thread. | [22:56] |
#ossasepia Logs for 03 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | diana_coman: just letting you know I am back from holidays and at home terminal. Catching up and getting reorganized | [00:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did the act-first-think-second comp building this morning we discussed for 3hr. Then I sent 2hr on writing my article with the type of my disassembly notes. I did find a missing part, i do not have screws to mount the ssd and hdd (pcgamingcr did not send the case's assembly kit that contains them.) I ordered them for my mother to bring when she visits this Sunday. For TheFleet I setup basic join/disconnec | [01:42] |
| whaack: | t logging. I looked into logging join/part and it should be something I can get done quickly tomorrow. I have not forgot about the comment and took some time to draft a response. | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: wb, hope you had a refreshing break. | [05:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hopefully you get the test at least started so it can have a run over the next 2 weeks when it seems you'll not have much time on this. | [05:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: how's the cruise? | [05:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I am trying to get some bots connected by tonight / tomorrow midday. | [11:55] |
| whaack: | in scams: when I dropped the "no manuals? then the parts are not new?" message, i got no reply from pcgamingcr until the next day (this morning) "Todo es nuevo si no no dariamos garantia en los artÃculos" to which i responded "Cuales partes son nuevos y cuáles tienen garantia?" | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | lolz. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | i think some of the parts actually are new, and they decided to loot the accessories. because for example with the case they gave me the manual, just not the screws that come with it | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly or for that matter even "lost/dropped as unimportant the accessories" wouldn't surprise me much; but at the end of the day, this sort of details really don't matter, as the mess is still the mess, there's not much point to differentiating now between flavours of mess based on…intentions or something. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did they actually give you any papers for that "garantia"? and even if papers – what exactly are they worth? will they replace the part if it's faulty or what? (I can imagine how that would go,lolz) | [12:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. i don't care much about figuring out the intentions, i want to play my cards so that i just recuperate as much of my loss as possible. that's why i have not gone full PUTA MADRE ME ENGAÑÓ. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no i think the garantia is an empty statement but i could ask for some papers for that i guess | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you should ask for the papers anyway. | [12:11] |
| adlai: | this channel is now unsubscribed from cat facts; whaack may send a private message to request a link to the unsolicited advice | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have two categories of messages I need to log. One is a standard message to channel, like the one i'm sending right now. The other type of message I need to log is a special message from fleetbot giving some information, there are currently 4 special messages: a msg when fleetbot connects/disconnects from a channel, and a join/part message. Currently I am using the same table "log" for both types of messages. The ben | [13:04] |
| whaack: | efit of this design is you can do a simple select query on the log ordered by received date and see all the information about a channel you'd typically want in order. The bad part of this design is that the 'special messages' are distinguished from normal messages via ~ 'magic values' | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean by magic values? | [13:45] |
| diana_coman: | it's a different category and you need categories anyway so supposedly there's already a column for that, isn't there? | [13:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have a category column, would be a good addition. as for magic values – there are columns like "host" that I set to "127.0.0.1" for the "special messages" | [13:49] |
| whaack: | er "magic values" | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: neah, add the category column; you need it *anyway*, see http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Dec-2019#1014347 | [13:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-31 11:45:30 diana_coman: I'd rather it did; ideally marked as a different category (so you can filter them out/in later, at analysis time) | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, it IS the sane approach there, what; no 127.0.0.1, why would you even think of that? | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in general: do NOT blindly overload existing parts with whatever new meaning you happen to need on the spot, it's unsanitary, quite disgusting and the start of one full set of clusterfucks. | [13:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for not adding the column category immediately – I was being stupid for a second. However there still needs to be values put into fields (such as host) that don't have meaning for special messages, even if those values are just null / emptry string. | [13:56] |
| whaack: | My nose was at least working as I could smell the unsanitary code | [13:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the DB has default values, use them; this being said, the fact that you find yourself in the situation where you need to fill in fields that have no meaning for some rows is essentially a sign that you are stuffing in there what doesn't quite belong; whether it's a problem or not, it depends. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: strictly speaking, you are indeed abusing the log table there since the fleetbot "messages" are not irc messages, are they? | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, that "have to fill this which has no meaning" is precisely the flag of your abuse. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, the ordering is usually saner by id of message rather than the timestamp which can easily run in all sorts of trouble; is there an id per line? | [14:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes correct the fleetbot messages are not irc messages. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | (in turn, this can further complicate the trouble when you start inserting in there non-message messages); like all design, db design will end up quite a mess if you "just do it". | [14:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: each row has a unique id | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: basically your fleetbot messages belong in a table of their own and you can always do a join, dbms is good at that; have it log chan id or whatever for link + timestamp or something. | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so myeah, not very helpful to then mess up the sequence of message ids by inserting those non-messages in there. | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't recall how much xp you have with sql/similar/db. | [14:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah well the unique ids are random hexes, i will see to it that they have incrementing ids | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, why random hexes? | [14:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that is the design of logbot that I have not changed | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | ah, huh; I can't see a reason for that; trinque , why did you use random hexes as unique ids for each log line in db? | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: just add an auto-incrementing id to the table and the dbms will do the rest for you. | [14:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | I somehow rather doubt there's any danger of overflowing the data type there + if it's at that, there's potential trouble in theory with random hexes too via clash. | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [14:15] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-03#1014489 << ty, it was very refreshing! Good to be back though. | [18:37] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 09:22:37 diana_coman: lobbes: wb, hope you had a refreshing break. | [18:37] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-24#1013903 << anything specific by Popper you recommend I start with? I started chewing through Kant a bit last year, but didn't get too far (was indeed a bit over my head). | [18:37] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 17:13:33 diana_coman: ha, forgot lobbes ^ | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: he's very readable and quite enjoyable really in ~all I read; the trouble with starting points is that they make sense or not depending on what you already have (or not); otoh, one starts wherever one can anyway, so there isn't any "wrong" starting point either. | [18:42] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I think I gotcha. So I kinda have to start chewing through ~something~ to really get the rest anyways | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw (and iirc) I think I read first his essays (grouped I think in "in search of a better world") – kind of made me want to listen to what he had to say; the open society and its enemies draws upon a lot of references so on one hand it can be overwhelming if you have no idea of those references, on the other hand you could perhaps use it as a starting point to learn about those too. | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes re chewing and also keep in mind that first read is just that – the *first* read, not like you have to attempt the impossible task of "getting everything from this one read" | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: sure, you could in principle go at it historically ie start with the ancients and work your way as they did; it makes for a fun project but I wouldn't call it a very practical approach tbh. | [18:50] |
| lobbes: | this is true re: first reads. Looking back, anything I found worth reading I ended up reading more than once usually | [18:51] |
| lobbes: | lol, yeah starting with the ancients sounds fun but also I think I would perish from this earth before making it too far | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | that is 1; then reading is re-reading is 2; and usually one needs at least 3 passes to fully get something so that's 3 and we'll stop there as it's quite enough anyway. | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: heh, if you also add the requirement to read them in original, certainly; and that's precisely how one gets both very happy ("will never run out of stuff to do!!!") and totally useless (will *also* never get to *do* anything either) | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you enjoy Kant though? | [18:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I did enjoy (what little I grokked) of Kant. I need to get an english version though, it was an extra layer of confusion trying to see if I was getting the German translated correctly | [18:58] |
| lobbes: | It was an enjoyable exercise, but then I think that rolls into your 'never be bored, but never get to do anything' point just above | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | well, let me translate for you and the logs, this tidbit that might shed some light on my take on philosophy overall so what I say on it gets a bit of context too: I was once before sworn at by a philosopher as he said I was a philosopher myself. | [19:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: but re Kant, I asked because on reflection, initially I hadn't included you in the recommendation for Popper mainly because I thought you were quite likely to enjoy Kant possibly even more. | [19:03] |
| diana_coman: | basically I spent quite a lot of years considering all philosophers idiots :D | [19:05] |
| lobbes: | haha. For what reasons though? Too much opining about and not enough practical bits? | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, I was very young indeed (about 15-20 pretty much); looking back at it, I'd say that philosopher guy I mention in the comment had seen something ie it was a combination of "hah, I'll make my OWN if I need one, thank you very much" + they'll talk of everything and do nothing + some idiots as "teachers" of the subject in school (+ possibly more tbh). | [19:11] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [19:13] |
| lobbes: | that combination does resonate with me in a familiar way, I can say, esp. at that age. | [19:18] |
| lobbes: | will also bbl | [19:18] |
| trinque: | diana_coman: UUIDs are cheaply globally unique for tiny datasets like human-produced logs | [23:04] |
| trinque: | I didn't want to be in the business of worrying about renumbering log lines if I merged logs from two sources, and had previously said all manner of things about that log-line by foreign-key reference | [23:05] |
#ossasepia Logs for 02 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I had an unproductive day. First thing to mention – I surfed for 2h in the evening. In the morning, almost 4h were spent cleaning off the thermal paste from the cpu and hea tsink. Then I went quite overtime with my article, since I had only a very faint outline from yesterday (3-4hr) I only spent about 1.5 hr on TheFleet, 5hr 15min short of my plan. I worked on improving the channel-snagger – i saw that ind | [01:47] |
| whaack: | eed it throws errors for some networks that I can connect to with my client so there may be many available networks missing. | [01:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what a mess of a day indeed. | [05:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: looks like the motherboard is likely used. the manual says it comes with 4 sata cables and an i/o shield, both of which pcgamingcr did not send. | [11:57] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: (or anyone) Is there a preferred method you have for applying+spreading the thermal paste? | [12:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I've always gone with what the paste manufacturer suggests for the type of chip in question | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | On the documentation part of their website or in the print instructions that came with the paste, normally there's a breakdown of what they recommend for different chip types | [13:03] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: great ty. i would not have known to look there | [13:04] |
| whaack: | one of the mounting holes for the motherboard seems almost dethreaded. i took off the mobo and tried to see if i could get the screw in at all, and i was able to, but it took an unusual amount of precision | [13:44] |
| whaack: | screwed in mobo successfully | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I guess you can call this ordering stuff through pcgamingcr a truly multi-learning experience then. | [15:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yupp | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the plan+status on your computer? | [15:34] |
| whaack: | i'm currently practicing putting the heat sink on the processor before i put on the thermal paste. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | right; the bigger plan though? | [15:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My plan was just to keep working a few hours every day on it. | [15:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am over my allotted time for today but I still would like to keep going and get the heat sink installed with the thermal paste before wrapping up. | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, so yesterday the few hours were to clean the paste, today a few more hours to screw the mobo in and tomorrow a few more hours to… put the drives in, or what? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | do you have some clear idea of all the steps required and why/how you choose "what next"? what are the parts and where they go and why and all that? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you take photos? | [15:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes i've been taking photos along the way | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | do you have also notes re what you did on which day and how long it took? | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and yes a few steps took quite an unexpected amount of time. i hope the last few pieces will all fall together quickly. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | (why and with what results should be in the notes too) | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, I may have taken a few but they are spotty | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | ah, hope, that thing to hold on to for dire lack of anything else. | [15:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: (I can confirm I do have a few scribbles on the disassembling process) | [15:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: And my full plan is weak, it is just my memory of redoing what I undid. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah, meaning your full plan is not a plan just like the disassembling process was probably more of an accident than a process and so on. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the next question being of course: did you at least… count the parts? or you'll end up with a few remaining outside after you close the case, lolz. | [15:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have them in one spot | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | or so you… hope; not like you can actually tell. | [15:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, I should have counted the parts including all the screws for multiple reasons even if it is unlikely that I will lose them | [16:21] |
| whaack: | I will do that now and publish a plan for building my computer as my article for tomorrow and otherwise get back to working on TheFleet for now. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: more to the point, remember that basic part of being able to undo/redo? It *includes* a properly documented disassemble phase if that's your starting point; as in: disassembling happens with pen and paper at hand, parts get noted down and have their storage place; there's little more frustrating than ending up with "can't find a screw" or whatevers. | [16:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-26 12:57:51 diana_coman: whaack: also, as a basic engineering rule, for everything you plan to apply/assemble, you should have from starters everything required for the removal/disassemble really. | [16:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: understood. i did this only partly, i have some notes on the order of steps and i have an organized spot for items + pictures, but it was not done thoroughly and some steps are missing as well as the parts list. (sorry for the delayed response, someone was at the door) | [16:43] |
| whaack: | dorion_road and jfw: bump on q as to whether or not you'll be back and available on Jan 15th. | [20:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 15:12:05 jfw: whaack: pretty sure both dorion_road and I will be back by the 15th fwiw. | [20:35] |
| dorion_road: | whaack I confirm I'll be back in Panama next Monday and happy to meet up when you visit. Have you booked the trip yet ? | [23:15] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: no, but i will now :) | [23:15] |
| dorion_road: | cool. if you have any questions about where to stay, just ask. | [23:19] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: yes certainly if you have a recommendation, please lmk. also which airport should I fly into? | [23:20] |
| dorion_road: | are you hosteling / hotel / airbnb ? | [23:21] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: if you know of a nice hotel for <0 a night i'll take that, otherwise i'll do the hostel adventure | [23:23] |
| dorion_road: | whaack, I'd look at what's most convenient / economical from your cr airport. tocumen is the big one, but albrook is in the city and panama pacifico is on the west side of the canal, also close. | [23:24] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: looks like i'm going to go with tocumen | [23:27] |
| dorion_road: | whaack no hotel <0/night comes to mind. for hostels, selina's in casco viejo is nice and new. I've not stayed there, but been to parties. | [23:28] |
| dorion_road: | selina's probably has shuttles from tocumen, standard airport taxi rate is 0 to the city. | [23:30] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: they have a nice selina in tamarindo as well. sounds fun, alright i'll go with that then. | [23:31] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: thx for the help, i pulled the trigger. I get in the evening of Jan 13th and leave the morning of Jan 16th | [23:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 01 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Did 8h of saltmines, 1hr of Spanish, ~2 hr of 'writing time', but that was spent mostly researching reading #t logs + links. 45mins of setting up my comp was on my schedule, but I did not put anytime into that. (Also, my plan for this week needs to be updated to include which days I publish on) | [02:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds ok. | [05:51] |
| whaack: | i need a better method or i'm going to be cleaning this heat sink all day. i was only able to obtain 90\% ethyl alcohol. i am putting the ethyl on the heatsink with a qtip and rubbing aggressively with coffee filters. i've made progress but every pass still seems to pick up some excess thermal paste. | [11:35] |
| whaack: | and with the cpu i'm going to need to be way more gentle imo. i haven't decided whether to clean it with it in or out of the motherboard. currently i plan to leave it in because i don't think i'm going to spill the alcohol and i'll leave it ample time to evaporate anyways | [11:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you have that much thermal paste on there, give it some passes rubbing with qtips | [11:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | But still finish with the coffee filters | [11:38] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes i've been doing targeted qtip cleans as well for the nooks and crannies | [11:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Just get the qtip soaked with solvent and hold it on the problem areas so the solvent bleeds into the paste. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: ah okay | [11:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | Let the solvent do the hard work, save your aggressive rubbing for once the bulk of the grease is gone. | [11:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe take some pictures of what you've encountered on the heatsink/CPU mating surfaces. | [11:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | If you've got thick paste you're fighting (which usually means far too much was applied), you can: 1. wet a microfiber rag with solvent 2. set the rag on a flat and clean surface unpainted/unvarnished surface 3. set the item to be cleaned paste side down on the rag | [11:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you do use the microfiber rag to prime the paste with solvent, do use a clean one you don't mind tossing. | [11:48] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: i'll post a pic of what i'm working with. it's not a matter of there being a thick crusty paste that's hard to remove, i just can't get it to a particularly shiny finish | [11:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Still may be worth priming the past with a solvent rag, but the pics usually help | [11:52] |
| whaack: | ztkfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/DSC01052.JPG | [11:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Yeah that's still rather dirty. Maybe not soak a rag dirty, but soak a coffer filter (or in a pinch, a paper towel) dirty. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Alright i'll soak a coffee filter and place the heat sink on that for a while | [12:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: After 10 minutes or so wipe it dry with another filter. If you let if sit too long you'll lose solvent to the air. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: roger, timer set | [12:07] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: hm i think 10 mins may have been too long. it was almost completely dry when i lift it off | [12:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Maybe something that holds more solvent than a coffee filter would help | [12:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | Just don't use toilet paper unless you want to remove a bunch of lint later. | [12:28] |
| whaack: | alright giving the rag a go | [12:33] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: gah not too much luck really. are those circles on the right side of the pic thermal paste rings, btW? | [12:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It's hard to say from the picture. they could be joints between parts of the heatsink | [13:00] |
| whaack: | the real problem, from my limited knowledge, appears to be the residue inside the ridges | [13:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: What's between the ridges may be solder rather than thermal paste. | [13:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | Sure if rubbed hard enough, the soft metal in the solder can mark up what's being rubbed on it, but… it isn't going to dissolve in alcohol. | [13:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | What really matters is the flat surfaces that will be making contact are clean. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: k. looks like i'm getting some milage out of scrubbing much harder | [13:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Maybe do a quick finger nail test. Does the stuff you are attacking behave like a solidified goo or when you poke it, is it more like a sort of pewter? | [13:11] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: i don't know what a pewter is, but if you mean some sort of dust/removable material – it's hard to tell since the residue in the ridges is hard to pick at | [13:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Pewter's a sort of tin allow with properties similar to solder. If that residue just doesn't want to give… it could be the solder holding the thing together. | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The important thing is… does this stuff you are picking at interfere with the heatsink having a flat surface to mate with the CPU? | [13:39] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: no it doesn't, not on the edges, so you're right i don't think it will make a difference | [13:40] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: after much more scrubbing http://ztkfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/DSC01058.JPG | [13:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That looks clean, give it a couple gentle wipes with the coffee filters and try to be more gentle with the CPU | [13:45] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Alright. i think the pic makes it look a little extra clean because it is more of a birdseye view than the first pic | [13:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Is anything at all coming off when you wipe gently with a solvent wetted coffee filter? | [13:49] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: not with the coffee filter but yes with the qtip | [13:50] |
#ossasepia Logs for 31 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4h of saltmines + the trip to Santa Cruz + wrote my article. the lost 4h on saltmines and no dedicated Spanish time are b.c. of going a little over time with my article and b.c. i was awake for fewer hours today | [00:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, spill over is spill over, yes. | [04:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: a previous report was a major overstatement – i have ~40,000 channels from ~200 networks rather than [700,000 channels from ~500 networks][http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Dec-2019#1014202] | [10:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-28 02:17:11 whaack: just under 700,000 channels right now. I am missing channels from roughly 100 networks. They mostly offline, but some have a few rules that are messing up my script, such as "you must be connected for 60s before grabbing the channel list" | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lolz, quite the difference there; how come? and are there in the end ~500 networks and you're missing ~300 or are there simply ~200 total or what? | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there are 597 listed networks on netsplit.de, but some of them appear dead (i can't connect via the advertised hostname/port) | [11:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw this is NOT programming ffs, it's monkeying at the keyboard, ugh. | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you even spot-check those to see if it's perhaps just your bot(s)? | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | it seems rather too large a chunk to be just bogus although it's not impossible nowadays either. | [11:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i got the 500 networks-with-channels number because i ran an improper reduce on my list of networks. atm now i have nfi how i got the 700,000 channel total | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | well, at least it's funny. | [11:22] |
| whaack: | i think i did something like pipe it to wc and counted the words instead of the lines | [11:22] |
| whaack: | yup, that's what i did | [11:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no i didn't spot check the networks where I received USOCKET errors | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | it's just too many to leave it at that; one way or another it needs looked into; can still wait since there's a whole lot otherwise to get started on those you could connect to, but you can't say "they don't exist, netsplit.de is wrong" just on what you have so far; leave them for now in "??? category" perhaps, for laters. | [11:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, I plan to investigate all the networks I was unable to connect to. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | all right; but it can wait. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think right now I need to design the pipeline that connects channel-snagger and fleetbot. So fleetbot can use what is available atm and begin logging, and then when new networks and channels appear it will start logging those as well | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible, yes. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For the issue regarding connecting enough bots to the bigger networks, it will take more time to build this – but I am willing to get enough ips and route through them. | [11:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The work for that would be to setup ~10-20 proxy servers, and then find out how to set CL to route through different proxy servers on a per-thread basis. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that can also wait though; first make at the very least a "test run" that fully works and you know what's going on in there. | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also re "silence", do notice that it might be due to the holidays time to some extent; it is New Year's Eve, after all. | [11:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: of course, two networks were in Bulgaria and it was late at night for the majority of the time i was connected | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does the bot log the join/parts too? | [11:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, would you like it to? | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | I'd rather it did; ideally marked as a different category (so you can filter them out/in later, at analysis time) | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | but it can give I suppose an idea of just how much of the whole imagined "activity" is nothing more than …automated processes basically. | [11:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. i will look into adding it | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [11:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as for doing the "test run", should I connect a fleet to say ~50 or so small networks where I don't run into the max-connections-per-host problem? | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes; and monitor it's run for at least several days/ a week, it's basically a first chance to get some idea of the practical issues; atm it's even unclear how much data you'll get for instance (and I expect that's anyway going to end up on some power law basically but still); test run indeed. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | its* ; ugh. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do select your sources better, really; that "definition" of codependency is worse than useless really; the first part is microsoft-style and the 2nd part reads more like a confusion than a definition; the core of it is the enabling of one's faults (hence the previous clue re don't use tmsr as a crutch) | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | also, you glossed over/chose only some parts to answer to in that comment, lol. | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i'll reread and comment addressing the points i missed. i had already waited 2 days to respond and i wanted to get _some_ response in. | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why the delay anyway? | [14:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i thought writing a reply would take a while | [14:57] |
| diana_coman: | you can always ack the point(s) otherwise and note you'll need to think it some more or something but even better maybe discuss it instead of just spinning around it. | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; did it take then more than alloted and so you cut out parts or how does this even work? | [14:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i just addressed the points I saw most important to respond to and eventually decided i had spent enough time and hit the comment button | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | basically "the rest is not worth my time" then? | [15:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: arg no i don't think that even if my actions say it | [15:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but spinning on it is not worth my time, and i'm worried that i'll lose hours doing that | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, good; but yeah, that's what they say and why I said you should have at least explicitly stated that you need more time to consider the other points. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so…don't; hence – discuss/ask/talk, do NOT spin. | [15:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright i will get back to that comment thread later today after some saltmines. writing the article and reading the comments helped me quite a bit. the most important discovery was from mp calling out the b.s. 'worthy-because-worthless' reasoning that was underlying my "his strategy to stay safely seated on his throne and keep the council well indoctrinated" | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok; possibly "next year" even, no hurry. | [15:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: erm i need to clarify that is a light new years reference and not stinging sarcasm lol | [15:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ that is a malformed q : you are saying that it's okay if I get to it tomorrow, correct? | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha; yes, it's okay if you get to it tomorrow, no worries. | [15:26] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014287 – I wasn't using the <, but I changed those << for << and that indeed solved it, thank you! | [16:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 04:53:15 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Dec-2019#1014265 – possibly it gets confused by those < < that remained as such, try making them < since you do that for the rest anyway, right? | [16:03] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014289 – yeah, I let myself get caught in, "this should be so simple, wtf am I overlooking ?" | [16:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 04:57:24 diana_coman: dorion_road: also, don't bang head alone for that long – come in here and someone will bang your head for you if needed – or otherwise help you out way faster, you know? | [16:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: While I'm doing DNS things, did you have the minigame.biz restored anywhere? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: sadly no; it's only logs.minigame.biz that lobbes handles and so it's up. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: aren't those/the other < normally handled by jfw's script? ie did you just find a bug in jfw's script in fact? | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't use his logotron2wp script there, but won't neglect to use it moving forward. | [16:45] |
#ossasepia Logs for 30 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Another long 12h+ grind on TheFleet that went into the night. I did my writing too but no Spanish. I can connect a fleet to small networks, but networks have a max-conn-per-host limit that when passed boots all my bots. So my max channels per ip is (max-conn-per-host * num-chans-per-nick) until I find some trick. Otherwise, I learned a bit about error handling and threading today in CL. I'll publish the det | [03:48] |
| whaack: | ails tomorrow in my article. | [03:48] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Dec-2019#1014261 – exactly. | [04:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-29 18:36:18 whaack: diana_coman: i see, they're the half baked notions i wish to be true that I leave in my head unchallenged | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Dec-2019#1014265 – possibly it gets confused by those < < that remained as such, try making them < since you do that for the rest anyway, right? | [04:53] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-29 19:32:46 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Dec-2019#1014149 << done. however, I seem to be tripping on a bizarre mp-wp bug. a </strong> tag is being dropped upon serving the comment. when I edit the comment it's there, but upon saving it, it's dropped. I've been banging my head for the last 90 mins without any | [04:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: also, don't bang head alone for that long – come in here and someone will bang your head for you if needed – or otherwise help you out way faster, you know? | [04:57] |
| diana_coman: | btw, you might want to use a html validator as it will point out unclosed tags and other such things that tend to end up in weird errors. | [04:58] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014283 – what tends to be the range for those num-chans-per-nick and max-conn-per-host ? | [05:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 03:48:02 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: Another long 12h+ grind on TheFleet that went into the night. I did my writing too but no Spanish. I can connect a fleet to small networks, but networks have a max-conn-per-host limit that when passed boots all my bots. So my max channels per ip is (max-conn-per-host * num-chans-per-nick) until I find some trick. Otherwise, I learned a bit about error handling and threading today in CL. I'll publish the det | [05:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: 3-5 connections per host and 120 max-chans-per-nick is what i've seen, but I have not iterated through the channels. there is no command afaik to get these numbers – i have to keep going until i hit an error. | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what/why is the work on this so far eating that much time? It seems rather excessive from here. | [11:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Are you asking 'why put that much time in a single day?' or 'why is the logger not up and running yet?' | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I'm asking what took 12h+ and why is it a grind? | [11:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 03:48:02 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: Another long 12h+ grind on TheFleet that went into the night. I did my writing too but no Spanish. I can connect a fleet to small networks, but networks have a max-conn-per-host limit that when passed boots all my bots. So my max channels per ip is (max-conn-per-host * num-chans-per-nick) until I find some trick. Otherwise, I learned a bit about error handling and threading today in CL. I'll publish the det | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | so neither of your guesses there, really :) | [11:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: first, grind was a poor choice of words, since grind implies lots of tedious work (if i had manually connected to each network and figured out their connections-per-host etc. then that would be a grind) | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, that's what it suggested and part of why I asked the question. | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: What I did in the 12h was change trinque's bot to have a setting to connect with unauthed nicks and implemented make-fleetbot and fleetbot-connect-thread. One big time sink was I banged my head a bit on handling errors within threads. Another was then figuring out what was causing the errors sent by the networks | [11:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the discussion with trinque yesterday made me reevaluate my methodology with cl. cl+slime+emacs = the 'wonderful ability' to have a hotkey to take a function and put it inside the REPL so you can test it in isolation. but yesterday I bet I could point to hours lost 'masturbating' by firing off functions in the repl instead of reading my source and improving it | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that's exactly what it sounded like, indeed; and your statement yesterday re looking for code doing this or that was also a red flag. | [11:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note that testing something is *not* going to do a whole lot re understanding that something, esp not by itself; there are quite a few layers on this, hm. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | the point with using trinque's bot to start with was precisely to not end up with repeated 12h+ days on this but I suspect you have some very inefficient habits either programming in general or unknown language specifically. | [11:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it's a mixture of the two imo | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now the question is whether the reason you find it more pleasant writing in lisp is precisely because it feeds those bad habits, you know? | [11:44] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-29 whaack: trinque: First, I find it more pleasant writing in lisp. Second, I like the cultural aspect of a (present day) more niche language. Then for problems with python: i find the single line lambdas a strange requirement, and not having tail call optimization is lame (although i admit i can't think of many/any cases where that's been a problem) | [11:44] |
| whaack: | mhm | [11:45] |
| whaack: | trinque's qs were a good wake up call. ~ 'oh yeah you like lisp, are you going to bet your work/career/life/etc. on that feeling?' | [11:46] |
| whaack: | and the 'machine gun' programming language is nice, for about 10 seconds before it finds a way to jam. i have my handicap autocomplete on + jump to func definition + repl etc. these help, kind of. but guess what happens when i fire off a thread to connect to a network and the network returns an error? all of the sudden I can't even edit the file i'm working on because my emacs is locking up when it searches the environment for symb | [11:54] |
| whaack: | ols to autocomplete to | [11:54] |
| whaack: | but a bigger problem than the above is that I turn a blind eye to problems like it because i've found the 'sekret weapon language' meant for the smart kids frustrated with the world | [11:59] |
| whaack: | dorion_road and jfw: would you be able to meet for coffee if I came to Panama City sometime between Jan 14th-Jan19th? booking my border run is way overdue | [12:27] |
| whaack: | bbl, off to Santa Cruz | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014311 – heh, this sounds like you need a whole lot more experience to end up with the wisdom to simplify your own workbench. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 11:54:52 whaack: and the 'machine gun' programming language is nice, for about 10 seconds before it finds a way to jam. i have my handicap autocomplete on + jump to func definition + repl etc. these help, kind of. but guess what happens when i fire off a thread to connect to a network and the network returns an error? all of the sudden I can't even edit the file i'm working on because my emacs is locking up when it searches the environment for symb | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014313 – yeah, too many blind eyes even, heh. | [15:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 11:59:11 whaack: but a bigger problem than the above is that I turn a blind eye to problems like it because i've found the 'sekret weapon language' meant for the smart kids frustrated with the world | [15:24] |
#ossasepia Logs for 29 Dec 2019
| whaack: | argh. my power is out, and since my monitor is the only source of light i have started a bug festival at my desk. | [00:13] |
| whaack: | sets up distracting lamps and flashlights | [00:14] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/29/wh-review-of-week-11-dec-22nd-dec-28th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 11 (Dec 22nd – Dec 28th) | [01:39] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/29/wh-plan-for-week-12-dec-30th-jan-5th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan for Week 12 (Dec 30th – Jan 5th) | [01:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Not a successful day. I spent 4hr 15 min finishing my article, about 1hr on TheFleet (which was just reading CL notes) and then 1.5hr on the plan + review for this week. I surfed for 1hr for some exercise, I also had to do an operation to get the router hooked into my UPS when the power went out because my phone's backup internet ran out of data. (the router was previously placed in my landlord's home and I | [01:57] |
| whaack: | 've been connected through an ethernet cable through the wall.) | [01:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is that your router or your landlord's router? | [07:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it's the landlord's router | [09:35] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: In the case I can't find isopropyl alcohol, for the citrus solvent, am i looking for the state stuff used as paint thinner? | [10:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Only use citrus stuff if it is specifically labeled for removing thermal grease. If you can't find isopropyl, ethyl works, but get the highest concentration you can. Check pharmacies and hardware stores. As an absolute last resort "ronsonol" fuel sold for petrol lighters may be used with extreme caution. | [10:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Don't use automotive gasoline because it'll have metalic salts added to improve its octane. Just because they don't lead the gasoline anymore doesn't mean they don't dope it with a bunch of magnesium and manganese. | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | The reason why high concentration alcohols are favored is they can be completely cleaned off the surface, and they evaporate completely. A lesser paint stripper might leave some residue. Absolutely do not use the traditional dichloromethane paint strippers, because you need your brain in good health. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I have 80\% ethyl with me right now | [10:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you don't find better, that can work with greater precaution to keep it from going where it isn't wanted, and more time to evaporate. | [10:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's also require a bit more… not necessarily elbow grease, but… knuckle grease? | [10:54] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Okay if I resort to the ethyl then I would take the CPU out of the motherboard to clean it, correct? | [10:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Mine CPUs have usually been soldered onto the motherboard for being laptops, but taking the CPU out should make it easier to manage. | [10:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | In anycase, make sure your workbench is clean and dry. Contamination is the enemy. | [10:58] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: noted | [10:59] |
| whaack: | trinque: I need to use ~90\% of ircbot and ~50\% of logbot. For my modified ircbot, I need to remove all the authentication logic and replace it with always connecting with a random nick. As to the code from logbot I plan to modify the sql schema + the insert calls to include a column "network" that represents the irc network the logs are from. I plan to fork ircbot, and make something like ircbot-unauthed, and then my fleetbot will | [11:31] |
| whaack: | extend ircbot-unauthed. For the logic from logbot, I will just copy + modify what I need into fleetbot.lisp instead of extending logbot or making a fork. If there is a derp in my design please let me know. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | I don't plan to include the outbox either, as these logbots plan to be silent. diana_coman if you think these bots need to be able to speak plz let me know | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, no need for bots to speak. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why not your own router? | [11:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had my own router (that they provided for me) but it was just acting as a ~switch because there's only one phone line for the building. I needed to take their router (which is also a modem) and put it in my apartment and then run a long phone jack into their building. | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | I see. | [11:44] |
| trinque: | whaack: why not modify the thing such that you can enable/disable auth, rather than forking? | [11:48] |
| trinque: | that seems like an entirely reasonable feature, i.e. if there's nil supplied for password, don't auth | [11:48] |
| trinque: | I just never implemented this option because I had no need for it | [11:49] |
| whaack: | trinque: okay my thought process was to keep ircbot as light as possible but you're right this feature is reasonable and shouldn't increase the LOC by much if at all | [11:50] |
| trinque: | I'll be happy to review changes for ya too. | [12:00] |
| trinque: | incidentally this is a tool I want, a commentary tool for vpatches. | [12:01] |
| trinque: | bbl | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: that sort of tool is part of what I had in mind when last reviewing V use ; I didn't find yet the time to think it through fully so as to start getting it moving but it's certainly needed, yes. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: beliefs may be cuddly and warm but they will fuck you quite predictably ~all times in the end. | [18:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i see, they're the half baked notions i wish to be true that I leave in my head unchallenged | [18:36] |
| dorion_road: | waves from maui | [19:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | waves from Montevideo | [19:29] |
| trinque: | burps from austin | [19:32] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Dec-2019#1014149 << done. however, I seem to be tripping on a bizarre mp-wp bug. a </strong> tag is being dropped upon serving the comment. when I edit the comment it's there, but upon saving it, it's dropped. I've been banging my head for the last 90 mins without any | [19:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-27 11:03:51 diana_coman: dorion_road: you should add that talk re http://dorion-mode.com/2019/12/some-reasons-contributing-to-tmsr-os-is-ev/ to the comments there, where it belongs. | [19:32] |
| dorion_road: | success. | [19:32] |
| whaack: | trinque: I would like to catch errors that are being signaled from threads I've spawned off with ircbot-connect-thread. The errors are various but mostly I need to catch SIMPLE-STREAM-ERROR when I get booted from a server. lmk if you have a method for this or if you think it's a bad strat to begin with. | [21:38] |
| trinque: | I mean, ircbot-connect-thread just does ircbot-connect in a thread | [21:42] |
| trinque: | it's just a helper method, mostly for repl play | [21:43] |
| trinque: | why would you not implement your error handling in ircbot-connect :around ? | [21:44] |
| trinque: | probably wrapping read-message-loop | [21:45] |
| whaack: | trinque: handling the error in ircbot-connect :around seems to be a good idea. I just need to know the threads will die gracefully. Maybe they do that on their own and think they're interfering with the rest of the process because my repl is firing the debugger up | [21:51] |
| trinque: | if they gave ya a debugger, didn't exit gracefully | [21:56] |
| trinque: | whaack: what's the idea, you fork a bunch of threads, then do something once they're terminated? | [21:56] |
| trinque: | broadly, sounds like a list of threads you loop over periodically, taking action when they're all in a terminal state, or you're tired of waiting, w/e makes sense in context. | [21:57] |
| trinque: | and just to point out, if you were pasting me context I would have a better idea of what you're trying to make | [21:57] |
| whaack: | trinque: Let's say a network has 360 channels. I need to park a nick in all 360, but the network has a a 120 channel cap per nick. So I make 3 threads connecting to all the channels. If a thread drops I would like to be able to restart it. | [21:59] |
| trinque: | got it, so you're actually going to have an ircbot in each thread. | [22:00] |
| trinque: | so yep, implement error handling and reconnection as stated, and then w/e channel-joining as hooks in the connection lifecycle, should be about it | [22:01] |
| whaack: | trinque: here are the "scribbles of my notebook" Idk if it's worth your time to read since it's an unpolished mess but since you asked for context. The function in question is "set-sail" but I am pretty sure i understand my problem, the handler-case has to be inside of the function that is passed to sb-thread:make-thread http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=vfsr | [22:08] |
| whaack: | i'll also have to consider errors being thrown by the ping thread | [22:11] |
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I worked a few extra hours on TheFleet project today, close to 12h. I did about 2hr of writing, no Spanish. I have some good news. I was lucky to figure out that the servers that returned IRC-ERR_NOTREGISTERED-MESSAGE in response to /list were complaining because I didn't wait for them to acknowledge my random nick. In other words, very few / no networks require you register to issue /list. I have a list of | [02:17] |
| whaack: | just under 700,000 channels right now. I am missing channels from roughly 100 networks. They mostly offline, but some have a few rules that are messing up my script, such as "you must be connected for 60s before grabbing the channel list" | [02:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not bad; do take & keep notes re networks' various requirements, as they will surely come in handy at a later time too. | [05:33] |
| diana_coman: | you'll have quite a nice article coming out of all this too. | [05:33] |
| adlai: | unsolicited advice, for whaack: copying guitar tabulature is not sufficient cause for owning a dedicated printer; moreover, your musicianship will likely benefit from time spent reading and writing the scores yourself, and your finer musculature might benefit from a wider variety of cramps. | [16:46] |
| adlai: | wonders whether the truly manic superhackers can typeset tabulature so that the inkjet's servomotors provide appropriate percussive accompaniment while the human practices from an earlier copy | [16:51] |
| whaack: | adlai: what do you mean my finer musculature would benefit from a wider variety of cramps? | [17:04] |
| trinque: | he's doing his idiot adlai schtick where he breaks the fourth wall and talks to the tv audience for laughs. | [17:04] |
| whaack: | ah | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | adlai: unsolicited advice is for writing on your own blog, not in here; do write in here when you have some unsolicited but useful work you want to showcase. | [17:08] |
| adlai: | thank you for the admonition, lady of the oldcoloredskeletonphotochannel | [17:09] |
| whaack: | trinque: do you understand how/when (format t "example") decides to flush its output to the slime repl? I had to put the form (finish-output nil) after it in one of my loops to get it to print | [17:09] |
| whaack: | another q is when the debugger throws an error it has the option [*PROCESS-INPUT] Continue reading input, what is the difference between this and [ABORT] Return to SLIME's top level. | [17:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: You've got a comment | [20:19] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I saw! and am typing a response rn | [20:20] |
| trinque: | whaack: start reading here, and click the blue stuff https://eklitzke.org/stdout-buffering | [21:23] |
| trinque: | second question would be easier with moar context, i.e. a paste of the contents of repl | [21:25] |
| trinque: | maybe they're equivalent, and the abort option is common to all slime session errors. | [21:26] |
| whaack: | trinque: i'll read the link. the process input / abort is a general q. i see both options appear during errors. I would like to be able to send a signal that pauses evaluation (say i.e. mid loop) , be able to type stuff into the repl to change the environment, and then continue the evaluation | [21:27] |
| whaack: | process input looked like what I wanted, but yeah it appears to be the same as the abort option | [21:28] |
| trinque: | https://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Debugger.html | [21:32] |
| trinque: | typically folks set a breakpoint, let their program run until it hits the breakpoint, and then fiddle around using the debugger. | [21:33] |
| trinque: | this isn't unique to common lisp | [21:33] |
| whaack: | trinque: the first link cleared up an important confusion, ty. | [21:58] |
| whaack: | i often redirect to files and tail -f them, and i now know why output is often delayed. | [21:59] |
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Like I've done in previous weeks, I let the article I wrote eat up the entire day. (I reread An Outpost of Progress again before writing it.) With your permission, I would like a break from writing tomorrow so I can put hours into The Fleet. That would break the one-article-per-day assignment, but it will help keep this week's schedule more aligned in terms of hours distributed to different tasks. | [00:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for TheFleet project, all I got done was getting irrsi setup so I can redirect the output of /list to a file. I still need to write a script that connects to each irc network and issus the /list command, putting the output in a file tied to the corresponding irc network. | [00:20] |
| DKordic: | I will kick myself off the channel. | [05:07] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/27/sr-the-write-off-from-the-logs/ << Young Hands Club — SR – The Write Off from the Logs | [06:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how long did you spend on that article? | [06:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: according to your current plan, there are already 8hr45 minutes on TheFleet today so there is no point in making it more than that really; just keep with the 1.5hour on writing or if you really must let it spill over, let it be into the 1 hour of Spanish and certainly not more than that. | [06:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i spent 1h rereading, another ~.5hour on the outline, and then about 4.5 hours on the body + .5 hours proofread after time | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | hm, so 1.5 hours that should have been on previous days and otherwise 5 hours instead of 1.5 on writing; do the 1.5 or max 2.5 instead of Spanish today but you can get back to it tomorrow ie publish every other day. | [09:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ^ | [09:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay so to clarify going forward 1.5hours or 2.5 hours HARD LIMIT (that also means no Spanish), and this now happens every other day | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the publishing happens every other day; meaning: you can actually spend 5 hours of writing one single article if you really find you must, except those 5 hours will be spread over 2 days and eating up the Spanish. | [09:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: got it | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | we'll review it at the end of next week. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's on your reading list/do you still get to read other than yesterday's sort of had-to-re-read session? | [09:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i haven't been reading much. last time i read was waiting in line for the bank in Santa Cruz. I am about 60\% through the second read of The Odyssey | [09:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but why not? | [09:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: sorry only 40\% through, i just checked. I haven't been reading because I've been pressed for time | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | hm; if it's the same by mid/end-January, it will have to be looked at as well; but ok for now. | [09:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay, i'll use a 30 minute reading session before I go to sleep as a reward for an efficient day of no spinning. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | sounds good to me. | [09:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, how's the 2nd read of the odyssey compared to the 1st? | [09:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it has been much more enjoyable on the second read | [09:45] |
| diana_coman: | heh, quite as it goes indeed; good to hear it, too. | [09:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i can focus on other details cuz I know what damn island the man is on | [09:46] |
| diana_coman: | it can take a while to get familiar with that whole other world indeed. | [09:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, i still couldn't tell you the names of the islands, i just have a better understanding of the chronology of events | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: maybe get/print a map, you know? I'm sure you can even find one online or something. | [09:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: not a bad idea, i have no printer though | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | don't you need one at all otherwise? | [09:53] |
| whaack: | the only need i've thought of for it is printing out some scores for the guitar, which i'm not really playing much anymore anyways. but yes i think it may be a good investment. | [09:54] |
| whaack: | In other things I should mention, I've been getting slight pains in my pinky and ring finger. Interestingly, this has happened on both hands at the same time. The pain is not too bad at all and only lasts for a short time. But I am concerned about emacs eventually destroying my hands. I bought the https://ergodox-ez.com/ ergodox keyboard which in theory is more ergonomic. But I type / navigate so slowly with that keyboard that I wa | [10:08] |
| whaack: | nt to wait until I am using it with my new pc. (I also want to wait because I currently can't install the software to update the keybinds on my mac) | [10:08] |
| whaack: | (The pain does not occur at the exact same time on both hands, it just has recently started to occur occasionally on either hand) | [10:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there are some exercises against carpal tunnel syndrome, you might want to look those up; but at any rate, if it hurts…stop doing it, you know? find what works for you there, keyboard and setup included. | [10:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i know, i do not muscle through the pain. i take my hands off the keyboard and wait for it to subside or at least start typing slowly | [10:12] |
| whaack: | i'll take a look into exercises against carpal tunnel syndrome | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, if you just take a break and then get back to doing precisely the same thing, that's not "if it hurts, stop doing it". | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | figure out what's the cause and make the needed changes, don't just basically train to stop noticing it. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I haven't / don't have this sort of problem and I'm not even using any extraordinary keyboard. | [10:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright i'll record myself typing and see if i can catch a particularly bad pattern. I've also been typing the same way for years on ordinary keyboards without ever having any issues. And even now the pain is quite subtle. | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | maybe it's just the change of pattern exactly. | [10:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it did start happening when i started using the new ergodox keyboard | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then give it some adjusting time and/or try to make the change more gradual if possible. | [10:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: will do | [10:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect the "theoretically more ergonomic" keyboards might only actually be more ergonomic for those with pre-wrecked hands/wrists. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I can see that angle tbh. | [10:35] |
| whaack: | I buy the idea that a split keyboard is nicer because it lets you keep your chest open as you type. but i don't see the other benefits of this keyboard. | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you can wear it around your neck from the images I saw at the link you gave – maybe that's the idea? :D | [10:40] |
| whaack: | lolz damn i am doing it all wrong | [10:40] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: you use this keyboard, how do you lay it out? do you put it at angle / what's the height of your desk / did you have keybindings you can post? etc. | [10:42] |
| whaack: | do you have* keybindings | [10:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: When jfw comes back you should ask him what my workstation looks like. It's seen all 2009 of my Qntra pieces (out of 2759 total) clacked out. | [10:47] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: um..why would I ask him and not you? | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well he's seen it, and jfw has the advantage over me in being a thoughtful observer not that is not myself. It's a Lenovo X120e 11.6" notebook I keep on top of an aluminum wedge. | [10:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Over other laptops I've used… it has the great advantage of the keyboard going all the way to the edge of the body on both sides. Maybe I'm just maladapted, but I find it a very comfortable arrangement. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Do you have a separate monitor? | [10:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Not at this time. | [10:53] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: that seems an easy way to have your neck always bending slightly downwards | [10:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, it's on a wedge, and it does help me to break gaze from the screen with some regularity. | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it might be more important to actually take regular breaks for that matter; every hour move away, that sort of thing. | [10:59] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: makes sense. i was scarred by seeing a 'master chef' in Japan whose neck looked permanently fixed downwards ostensibly from always bending over to look at what he was cooking. | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you should add that talk re http://dorion-mode.com/2019/12/some-reasons-contributing-to-tmsr-os-is-ev/ to the comments there, where it belongs. | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I usually get up with that frequency to get water or something, but i'll make a point to ensure i do. | [11:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I suppose ergonomically I use my workstation more like a typewriter that happens to have a screen than the way gamers or other "monitor immersed" folks do. There are times where I can stare at the screen, but normally I'm taking my eyes off the screen with some frequency. | [11:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I may return to scrapping netsplit.de for the channel names. I think that may be easier than connecting to all the networks and issuing the /list command. The problem with /list is that (1) i still need to find a way to format the output into files. I tried using irssi, setting it to log to a file, and then setting the startup script to issue the /list command | [11:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but there are a few headache with this. first, some networks require identification to issue /list, so i need to have my script do the entire registration dance, which afaik could be different for different channels | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean by "format the output into files"? | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know how reliable/up to date the list on netsplit.de is and/or whether complete. | [11:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to issue the /list command for the 260 or so networks. I want a script that is going to connect to each network, issue the /list command, and save the output to a file. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | that's the main issue with scrapping that: it's from a secondary source while direct source is entirely available so there has to be a very good reason for ditching direct source really. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: isn't that file the logfile anyway? | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, one of your bots can do that since it will have to connect to a network anyway, I don't see how is this different. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | if you have a bot that will connect to the network to join channels 1-100, then that same bot can first simply connect and get the list. | [11:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the logbot doesn't have to issue commands. i tried for a second to have one of my bots issue the /list command and save the response, but i ran into a problem and then figured it would be easier to use irssi. but I have not had luck with irssi so I think I'm going to go back to using my bots + cl-irc, and anyways it will get me more familiar with the library. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ugh, ditching a problem because "that might be easier" is not a sound approach. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, it tends to end up in this sort of back and forth over however many alternative "it might be easier" approaches you can imagine, with the overall net result that you spend actually more time and still have 0 to show for it. | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, I don't get how is it that the logbot doesn't have to issue commands; at the very least it has to issue "/join #chan" , doesn't it? | [12:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes it does but that command is in the cl-irc library.. and now I realize I should be searching for the /list command wrapper | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; listen, don't just go like that after "what seems easier"; at the very least bounce off the idea in here, can't hurt. | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | if anything, the optimisation should be about return (gain/effort), not about min(effort) even assuming that you evaluate that min(effort) properly in the first place. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as for the knowing when to back out of a strategy and try another one, i know that flip flopping between possible solutions without putting the effort to see one through to the end is a bad strategy. but there is some point where you need to back out of a strategy. for example, i spent 30mins trying to properly undo the zip ties holding the PSU cables. but they were too tiny and awkwardly placed, so i gave up and just | [12:07] |
| whaack: | snipped them. i think that was the right call | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: certainly; but that example you give is quite a different sort (and your solution even has a well-known historical name – the Gordian Knot, as solved by Alexander). | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | it's also not just "flip flopping between possible solutions without putting the effort to see one through to the end"; it's mainly and firstly about *how you choose* which solution to try and for how long, that's the important part. | [12:12] |
| whaack: | right, that is difficult | [12:14] |
| whaack: | but i believe i should have stuck with trying to do it with my bots, because even while stuck i'm gaining more familiarity with CL and the codebase i'll be using. I don't know if i'll benefit from learning a bit of about setting up scripts with irssi | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: quite right, you should have stuck with trying to do it with your bots, yes. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | see, you do know how to choose; you just need to actually… choose to choose :P | [12:17] |
| whaack: | mhm makes sense. i ignored the fact that i would benefit regardless from struggling with the ircbot solution because I believe (incorrectly, in retrospect) that it would be easier to use irssi | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | easier != correct choice; for one thing indeed, you can't even truly know upfront for sure which one is easier and for the other, choose the right thing, not the easy thing, remember? (because "easy" in the moment has its own mid/long term costs really so there's no "easy" like that, no). | [12:22] |
| diana_coman: | basically be more intelligently-lazy not stupidly-lazy :P | [12:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha yes this was laziness-from-stupidness. it certainly wasn't avoidance going to irssi, i much prefer to be playing around in my slime repl then learning a scripting language of a command line tool. | [12:24] |
| whaack: | than* learning | [12:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i got a channel list for freenode safe and sound in an sexpr via cl-irc, now to iterate through the other channels. First I need to get the list of all networks into an sexpr, then figure out how to connect to networks without registered nicks (logbot is config'd to require one), then I need to get as many chan lists for all of them as I did for freenode, then I need to see which networks failed to get a chan list (bec | [14:48] |
| whaack: | ause some require a connection w/ a registered account to issue the /list command.) Then I will figure out a strategy to get a nick registered for every channel and then finally grab their channel lists as well. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you mean to iterate through the other networks? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | won't you need to register nicks anyway? | [15:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i was planning on using unregistered nicks | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | if in the end you *still* need to register a nick, what's the point in going now through connect-unregistered and then check fails and register? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, but if that doesn't work for all, then you'll still need to figure out how to register, right? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | sure, automate it but either it works unregistered for ~all or it has to be done. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | well it is possible it's <10 or so, it did not take much time to get the randomize nick working | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then you should have said *that*; ok, run it with randomized and see on how many it fails, sure. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | kk my current task is getting the list of servers/ports in an sexpr | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [15:50] |
| whaack: | i am trying to find another way to get the list, but it looks like i'm going to scrape netsplite.de with python again | [15:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=FeE0 Out of the 596 networks I found the server info for 495 of them on netsplit.de . I only looked for servers that did not require ssl. I only stored the first hostname/port I found. Further work including all information for the individual linknames. An example of the data I'm scraping can be seen here: https://netsplit.de/servers/?net=IRCnet | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: looks fine for a start, go ahead. | [18:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have the function that adds the list of all channels to each entry in the list above containing network names, hosts, and ports. however each network has a chance of failing for some reason or another. so it seems a perfect time to go through CL's famous restart system which i'm reading about here http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you'll have to keep me up to date on whatever CL does or does not do; I'm not all that into CL really (I enjoyed functional programming sometime ~15 years ago but even at that time it was more Scheme and Haskell than Lisp anyway); so make sure you communicate clearly on this, please. | [18:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: noted. i'm running my code that iterates through all networks grabbing their channel list. there is a function grab-all-channels-for-network that takes a hostname port pair as a parameter. It is supposed to return a list of channels obtained from the server, but for various reasons it can fail. CL has a system similar to a "try / catch" block, except the "catch" can be a template with various options. when the operator | [18:34] |
| whaack: | hits the error while running the loop in their repl, evaluation freezes and the operator can pick from the various options (known as "restarts") to continue from. for my case, I want to create two options for when grab-channel-all-channels-for-network fails ~ "try again" and "return an empty list". | [18:34] |
| whaack: | dang, my alphabetical-order channel-grabber exhausted my cl's environment allocated memory at "ZwergenIRC" , so close! | [22:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I got pulled out for Christmas celebration by neighbors again. It was not a productive day. I only produced my daily article and dissembled part of my machine. I still have to take out the CPU + motherboard. | [02:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as for the parts, my ordered Seasonic Focus 850 PSU turned out to be a Corsair RM850 , and my ordered RAM 2x Corsair 8GB Vengeance became 2x Patriot 8GB Viper | [02:43] |
| whaack: | motherboard+graphics card are what i ordered. cpu looks correct although i'll know for sure when i get the heat sink off tomorrow | [02:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol @ the morphing parts, it's the "our best effort when we feel like it" approach there at gamingpc. | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, dissemble != disassemble ffs; dissembling computers is what pcgamingcr has been doing apparently, hopefully you don't intend to follow in their footsteps now; stop dissembling (even computers!) and start dis-assembling, will you? | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | !o uptime | [09:24] |
| ossabot: | diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 11d 12h 39m | [09:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: heh, noted re dissemble vs. dis-assemble | [10:59] |
| whaack: | heatsink removed, looks like they put on some thermal paste, i'm going to clean it off now and then put on my own when i put it back together. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | i removed the thermal paste, but there is a thin barely visible layer still there. is there alright, or should i take extra steps to clean that off? | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what did you remove it with? | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should clean it off properly, yes. | [12:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: a thin porous cleaning cloth, one that i believe won't leave any tiny debris | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Either a rubbing alcohol (90\%+) or specialist citrus oil based solvents work. | [12:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Coffee filters makefine lint free cloths for this purpose | [12:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | Usually I use a cotton swap to dab a bit of solvent on to the paste, then use the coffee filters to remove the solvent/paste emulsion. | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | as BingoBoingo says really; whaack just the cloth is not enough, you need some 90\%+ alcohol really. | [12:34] |
| whaack: | alright i gotta make a trip to the store then | [12:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | has used Q-tip soaked in solvent to take bigger crustier chunks of paste off, but they aren't lint free so something lint free needs to follow. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, do you have otherwise what you need to keep your computer(s) clean? | [12:38] |
| whaack: | probably not | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | lol; at the very least some compressed air canisters, some 99\% isopropyl alcohol for your cleaning of thermal paste, lint-free cloths. | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright so operation build computer is paused until i make another trip to Santa Cruz. I could take out the cpu and motherboard but from my understanding it is easier to clean the cpu when it is locked into place | [12:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as a basic rule, whenever you plan to do something, the first step should be to figure out what you need as tools & consumables & working area. | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you might still find out there's more to it than you thought but cleaning the thermal paste is not a surprise in any way, ahem. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: how wasi supposed to know that there would be preapplied thermal paste? the parts were supposed to be in boxes. | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: once you saw it was assembled though. | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that in time you'll need to disassemble and reapply anyway. | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | granted, not every month or something, lol. | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, as a basic engineering rule, for everything you plan to apply/assemble, you should have from starters everything required for the removal/disassemble really. | [12:57] |
| diana_coman: | because mistakes can happen. | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does the above make sense? | [12:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, have a game plan for each task that includes the ability to 'undo' steps along the way. | [13:00] |
| diana_coman: | aha; at time you might even want to "undo" simply for practice & check, esp on things you do for the first time; it's up to you when/if/how much of this you do, but allow yourself *the option* to do it if you want/need to. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyways, since pc assembly takes a break, what makes it to be done instead of it from the "time permitting" list? | [13:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: back to working on The Fleet | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | ah, more time for that; works. | [13:05] |
| whaack: | well the computer was projected to be built by even yesterday so as per the schedule I'm behind on TheFleet as well. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | (though the planning was done was before knowing it was preassembled) | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why didn't you update the plan though when it turned out you got a preassembled box instead of components? | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: not updating my schedule is a mistake that has continued from last week, under the idea it is 'unnecessary overhead' | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you don't update it then your end of week review should note you failed to deliver what you promised and as a basic consequence, next week there's no guitar and no surfing and no spanish; easy. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack. i will update it and comment on what i failed so far. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [13:25] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012653 << I have sporadic notes in my journal. Did not think it important to blog. i am working on extracting stuff to publish from project work anyway. | [15:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 15:09:10 diana_coman: shrysr: why not write anything on your blog about all those things that went on, anyway? even "hey, I'm in Vancouver, hoooray!" or something ("I'm alive" works too, lol) | [15:08] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: Re the question of the extent to which I want to follow you and about bringing 'myself': I think my efforts need to be elsewhere. My focus atm is entirely on setting up a stable source of income + figuring out the consultancy projects and the jobs I'm targeting. | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Sep-2019#1002986 "as of today" and just about until you're out of trouble, right? | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 17:13:19 shrysr: the homework. fwiw: there are others i shown reverence who dont have 10\% of patience here and who've sent inept 1 line replies to my hours+++ of composed emails or repeated Q's…just so you know: i have no doubt as of today that diana_coman has my full attention and efforts as well. | [15:22] |
| shrysr: | till i'm outta trouble and can figure things out yea | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: if you are indeed sure that this is not about your ego and not-liking-hierarchy and all that jazz (that got you already in trouble before and will do it again, predictably) and if you are indeed sure that your efforts truly need to be forever elsewhere, then I'll write you off entirely, sure. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: neah, it was that I had your full attention and efforts only in theory only in reverence of the words-only-type and only for as long as it was convenient to you, sure. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | you can walk away from this but you don't get to dress it up as anything other than what it is and make sure you fully get that it's not a choice to easily undo at a later time when more convenient or whatever else. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | I can't even say that I see some way to undo at all but whatevers, never say never and all that. | [15:35] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: i don't see what is being dressed up. The reverence was there in the words and in actual and whatever effrots undertaken was with sincerity. But there are other considerations that bother me. These are things that I recognised slowly. You call it all that jazz, but yes – i do have a problem calling somebody king. WHere does ego come into the picture? | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: what do you think that problem is? | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | the "whatever efforts undertaken" amounted to little less than 0, do you realise? sure, with sincerity, as all those sort of good intentions for as long as convenient tend to go. | [15:38] |
| shrysr: | i still don't see why you call it convenient ?? | [15:39] |
| shrysr: | that problem is not due to ego | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: really; so enlighten me: what is it due to? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | and how is it not convenient to ditch the previous promise that you'll get to work come Christmas? | [15:40] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: why is it necessary that i dont have a problem with the concept of there being a king here? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: hm? necessary for what? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you haven't answered any of my questions. | [15:46] |
| shrysr: | re: promise and convenient – what is this work you mean? The premise of hte work was doing things to become the best version of myself. | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you know, for the same money you can "have a problem with the concept of gravity"; why do you think it's necessary that you don't have a problem with the concept of gravity? in general like that it's not even necessary really, you can choose to have a problem with anything you want; but realise that it doe NOT change what is, nor does it do anything other than give you more trouble in the long term, that's all. | [15:48] |
| shrysr: | Re: necessarry for your approval or for being here or participating etc for being a part of the republic. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: I never stated that necessary, you did. | [15:49] |
| shrysr: | i dont claim that myself having a problem with something changes the nature of the thing. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | you know, you used those months of silence to work yourself up into knots really. | [15:53] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Dec-2019#1014036 << i dont see the need for it. | [15:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-26 15:40:10 diana_coman: shrysr: really; so enlighten me: what is it due to? | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: understand that if I had a problem with people's problems, I wouldn't be any good at helping anyone learn anything. Learning is pretty much overcoming all sorts of problems, yeah. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: oh, *you* don't see any need for it, right. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: do you have a problem now with me asking questions too? | [15:55] |
| shrysr: | YEs, learning is overcoming all sortsa probs. No. I do not have a problem with you asking questions. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: just with actually answering them? lolz. | [15:57] |
| shrysr: | lol. no, i'll try to answer them. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | I'm listening then for the answers to the questions I already asked. | [15:58] |
| shrysr: | I am sure that my efforts need to be elsewhere. I've tried to explain no choice has been made out of convenience.. | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | you can't explain that because it's simply not the case and quite plainly. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: anyway, just this question: are you sure you now want to precisely fuck off? Say simply yes and we're done. | [16:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 16:39:04 shrysr: you..and i was even annoyed that i needed that because I was afraid you'd just tell me to fuck off or disappear at some point. even with asciilifeform – i suddenly had a surge of reverence towards him after actually reading some of his posts several weeks down after popping in here. | [16:09] |
| shrysr: | well it is the case. putting my time and effort into my own survival and progress is not outta 'convenience' | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | sidelining part of what helped you get into that position in the first place IS CONVENIENCE. | [16:10] |
| shrysr: | what am i sidelining ? | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | it was fine while it was good and it's suddenly in the way when it's not good; the very definition of convenience, no matter what else you prefer to think. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: me. | [16:11] |
| shrysr: | I am not sidelining you. and fwiw: i have expressed my gratitude several times. ANd yes, talking to you helped me recover at that time. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: what do you imagine you are doing then when "oh, thank you for this time but now I'm busy"? | [16:18] |
| shrysr: | its not just abt 'busy'. | [16:22] |
| shrysr: | and i've been the same busy, its not like extra busy toda since i was supposed to pop up | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: eh, you can go on changing the meaning of words to suit you forever. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | yes, in your suddenly very busy schedule, there's no place or meaning for pesky me because of course; and sure, there wasn't any space all the way since the moment you got out just enough to be able to find the next hole at a higher comfort level but that's also fine because really, there is NO LINK between what you found useful and what you are not all that comfortable with, no, can't possibly be. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | this lack of place is also not sidelining because that wouldn't be nice and doesn't agree with your own view of yourself and therefore sure, NOT SIDELINING! | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | nor convenience, no. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | (and absolutely not at all related to ego either in any way because that would also not agree with the image you can live with, sure.) | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Dec-2019#1014058 – all right, silence works perfectly fine as "yes"; hope you'll enjoy whatever comes out of this choice of yours. | [16:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-26 16:09:01 diana_coman: shrysr: anyway, just this question: are you sure you now want to precisely fuck off? Say simply yes and we're done. | [16:55] |
| shrysr: | I'm more concerned abt being honest here, than some self image. hmm, its not related to ego, because its not. I dont see the need to ack king, and if there is a Link as you say – then as of today – i'm not convinced it is a wholesome link, and I dont think it conforms to idea of republic. That being said – the utility i derived and was | [16:56] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-04 ossabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-16 diana_coman: jfw: as to the republic as a whole, the fundamental aspect I'd say is the fact that it's a republic of men (ie individual agents, active and self-directed entities) | [16:56] |
| shrysr: | grateful for was of a different nature. W.r.t you having a place and meaning for me – 1. I don't see how the sorta projects I need to do are aligned with the work you need done here, and i've expressed that before. 2. you did have a great place + meaning – but my observations of the log in the past few months made me reconsider. These impressions did not form overnight, and it is not a convenient move | [16:56] |
| shrysr: | outta busy schedule. The schedule and the goals have been prety much the same, to become the best version of myself. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: neah; you are using my very words to describe what "you" meanwhile decided is something else because that's totally how it goes; next you'll soon find out I'm evil too, just wait a few minutes. | [17:04] |
| shrysr: | totally how it goes? does it ? | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | totally how you imagine it goes, yes. And so how you'll fit your narrative to fit because that's what you do. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | now go and enjoy your choice, there's nothing more to do here. | [17:06] |
| shrysr: | Well, just as what I imagine need not be true – the same applies to you. Yes, I will enjoy my choice :) thank you. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's "disassemble" really; I wrote it separate to highlight just why it's that one the word you need rather than "dissemble", that's all. | [17:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah okay, I must admit I think I got fucked by the spellchecker again here. I was pretty sure it was 'disassemble' originally, must have typo'd that one once and then trusted the spell checker from thereon out | [17:46] |
| whaack: | going forward I will dictionary the word whenever a situation like the above arises. | [17:47] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013900 – nice find, works indeed! | [04:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 18:59:12 whaack: I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [04:59] |
| diana_coman: | and Merry Christmas everyone! | [04:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: EOD sounds good, I'll read the article later today too. | [05:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/thefleet-a-systematic-exploration-of-the-irc-space/#comment-136 – it's all in there really but in short, automated processing & filtering first. | [06:04] |
| DKordic: | whaack: Check out https://tools.suckless.org/ii/ . I don't use it, C is a stupid joke. I found it interesting. | [07:09] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: suckless aka cat-v is not unknown around here; see http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-search?q=suckless&chan=trilema and http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/ | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: why won't you register a key with deedbot anyway? | [10:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re not needing the interface. i'd much rather spend my time learning awk and/or R then making yet another webpage. | [11:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My interaction with the pcgamingcr rep unfortunately makes me think that there is a possibility you were right about them scamming me and selling me a used part. The dishonesty began with the SD card reader. Not only did they not tell me that it was missing before I went to go pick up the package, but they never told me to begin with that it was backordered. I gather once they knew I would be waiting for the RAM they f | [11:27] |
| whaack: | igured they could pretend everything else was in stock. The other glaring missing item that I did not realize is the FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD. I messaged them about that and they were like 'oh yeah same problem – out of stock.' But I don't believe them because when I was ordering I said something like any cheap mouse/keyboard will do, so I don't see why they would pick one that would need to be ordered. I think they just forgot a | [11:27] |
| whaack: | nd are lying. | [11:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: on top of all this, the rep dodges any question that makes him culpable, refuses to answer my calls, and ignores my requests to set a time to talk | [11:28] |
| whaack: | DKordic: If I can't find another way to get the channel data from the /list command, then this might come in handy. Other than that I don't see how it'd be useful for TheFleet. I would rather my data in an index'd postgres db than structured as a unix file tree. Thanks for the link | [12:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: This looks like something where hanbot might have some useful insights into how you can effectively pursue some sort of remedy | [12:58] |
| DKordic: | diana_coman: I have no idea what is a DeedBot :) . | [13:21] |
| DKordic: | Cryptography is SciFi for me. | [13:21] |
| whaack: | DKordic: deedbot is a tool of The Most Serene Republic that among other functions stores a set of gpg keys and provides a graph of ratings that owners of the keys have given to other keys. http://wot.deedbot.org/ | [13:34] |
| whaack: | DKordic: Without a registered gpg key, you have no identity. Whose to say you are the same DKordic that was here a couple of weeks ago? | [13:36] |
| DKordic: | Good point. ATM DeedBot doesn't seem interesting to me at all. | [13:45] |
| DKordic: | Not in the foreseeable future. | [13:46] |
| DKordic: | Re: cat-v.org: Yes, they are C programmers. | [13:49] |
| whaack: | hanbot: ^ Here is the quick summary of what BingoBoingo believes you may be able to give insight into. I spoke with a rep from pcgamingcr through Whatsapp for a week or so to establish a list of computer parts + accessories to order. When I picked up the package there were problems. First, they took the parts I ordered out of their boxes and assembled 90\% of a computer. As diana_coman mentioned I have no way to know if the parts th | [13:51] |
| whaack: | ey sold me are new. Second, there were items I ordered that were missing: an sd card reader, a mouse, and a keyboard. What I would like to do is (1) convince them to pay the extra to deliver to my door for the remaining parts OR get a speedy refund. (2) probe to see if the parts they sold me were new or used. (2) is albeit a bit silly because afaik all I can do is ask and use poker skills to see if they are lying. So far I have ask | [13:51] |
| whaack: | ed for an explanation as to why they did not inform me of the missing parts before i picked up the computer. They dodge every phrasing of the question, responding, "the parts are not there because they have not yet arrived from our manufacturer." | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re data, if the bot spits it out directly to db, you might even get away with cleaning in sql directly or something; you'll still find R useful afterwards for processing. | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013918 – so why didn't you simply ask, you know? don't you *want* to find stuff out? | [14:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 13:21:19 DKordic: diana_coman: I have no idea what is a DeedBot :) . | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: there's the guide written for Eulora – you may still find useful the key generation + registration part. But seriously, you are way better off asking for stuff to do than silently hanging around. What is *not* sci-fi to you? | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013922 – this is militant ignorance speaking; the fact that it's not "interesting to you" means simply that you are totally clueless atm; it is *important* and therefore you should *get interested*, not derp about that oh noez, not interesting to me atm, as if you were some measure of interestingness in this world. | [14:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 13:45:23 DKordic: Good point. ATM DeedBot doesn't seem interesting to me at all. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what a mess; apparently in cr you either go to the shop or otherwise have a ton of trouble; what do they say about the missing parts, are you meant to wait indefinitely or what? | [14:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: they did not give a status update on the missing parts, they only said they would refund me if they can't get them. as mentioned before I suspect they have the keyboard+mouse and are lying about them being backordered, and i bet they are having trouble finding the SD card reader altogether | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it does sound very hard to believe they don't have *any* mouse and keyboard, for sure. | [14:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right, i asked them for any cheap mouse+keyboard, why would they pick something they don't have? and they didn't mention it when they admitted to not having the memory card reader. I think they simply forgot, and they have demonstrated by avoiding questions they will not admit their own fault | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you ask them now to ship whatever kbd and mouse? their "backorder" or whatevers is not your problem after all. | [14:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, i can do that now | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | iirc hanbot said she always picked the stuff up so possibly that's really ~the only way to avoid such mess in cr. | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's up to you really ie what do you want exactly as resolution to this mess? | [15:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The missing keyboard/mouse/memory card/ + preassembled computer bs, while quite annoying, is not so big a deal. I'll ask for a refund and have my mother whose visiting soon bring what I'm missing. I have a keyboard I should be able to use for now, and can otherwise go to Santa Cruz to get a keyboard/mouse. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | so then get the refund and be done with them; hurray for mothers everywhere otherwise :P | [15:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the only issue I care about, is whether or not the parts I bought are used or new. The question then is if I knew they were used, which I should assume is the case, do I want to argue for a full refund? My answer is no, the hassle will be way too much and I will still learn from building my own machine. Also, I'd much rather use a machine I put together with AMD over intel running a linux distro than a mac. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: kind of hard to actually know now; you can still ask them to ship to you the manuals because they should have them if new. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | and I guess you can press with a "if not manuals then it's 2nd hand so you take it back and refund me" or similar. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | did you check in the end that all parts are at least precisely what you ordered? | [15:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, I'll do that today after I'm done with my article when I dissemble the machine | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [15:10] |
| DKordic: | diana_coman: Exactly, I am not a measure at all. | [15:22] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack, diana_coman : does cr have fascist customs, like e.g. BingoBoingostan ? cuz if not, i can eat coin & have any iron you like sent there | [15:36] |
| asciilifeform: | sent a crate of FG, back when mp was there, an' it arrived w/ 0 wank. tho admittedly this could have been blind luck | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: so are you getting interested in what matters, then? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I suspect this was a local flavour of mess-up really, nothign to do with customs as such. | [15:49] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: aite. but if fella is in the americas and wants irons that the aboriginals can't or won't stock, possibly can help. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: noted and thank you! | [15:52] |
| DKordic: | is looking at TMSR OS… | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: do you realise you *need* an identity as a pre-requisite for *everything* around here? | [15:56] |
| DKordic: | OK, I will be back one day. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: and you know, if you are looking at tmsr-os, you are in the right place; however, if you want to do more than just look forever, you'll have to speak up, ask and learn. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what do you think that will do? why not do something now while you are here? | [15:57] |
| DKordic: | thinks… | [15:59] |
| hanbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013940 << indeed, and letting the sales end string you along for a week over chatting is the red flag to look out for in the future. i trust the chair people didn't hmm and haw and maybe they'll order an armrest here and glue it on plz wait an' see etc. sorry to hear you ran into such trouble tho'. i hope your box comes together soon, been an odyssey huh! | [16:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 14:59:58 diana_coman: iirc hanbot said she always picked the stuff up so possibly that's really ~the only way to avoid such mess in cr. | [16:31] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: idk what is the criteria for facist customs. They charge a large impuesto but afaik everything makes it through. Unless it is biomatter, then the environmentalist squad confiscates and torches it. | [16:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-23 18:22:07 whaack: diana_coman: I have a bad experience of going to Guatemala for a local artist to pick up four bags of Flor De Madera, a wood that is distorted through fungal growth. The customs agents took all four bags and torched the wood because we didn't have a paper saying that it was treated. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | hanbot: the chair people + cococo had some tiny quirks but relatively/retrospectively they were great to work with. especially cococo, they are the only business so far that has followed up on their offer to deliver to my door. | [17:05] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013883 << thanks for the recommendation, I've yet to read Popper so will start with him when I start. | [17:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 13:09:22 diana_coman: dorion_road: btw, re Kant, if you just start reading philosophy, I recommend you start with Popper at least, it'll be both easier to follow and of more immediate interest to you I'd think. | [17:43] |
| whaack: | before I take apart and put back together the machine assembled by the ticos, I'm trying to view the bios screen. Nothing is coming out of the display port cable, is there some basic trouble shooting I should do? | [18:24] |
| whaack: | got it working by restarting the machine and switching to an hdmi cable. | [18:27] |
| whaack: | I'm going to start taking everything apart and putting it back together. Meanwhile I am downloading the centos 6.9 minimal iso found on the mirror here: http://archive.kernel.org/centos-vault/6.9/isos/x86_64/ | [18:39] |
| trinque: | some GPUs take their own power cable. | [19:12] |
| trinque: | bbl | [19:12] |
| whaack: | currently stuck trying to get the mounting brackets off the heat sink | [21:50] |
| trinque: | derp, missed the line where you said you got it working. | [22:35] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Completed my writing assignment which took about 3.5 hours, made my appearance at the bday party which was ~2hours and I credited my Spanish study, did 6h of saltmines, and did some work on the fleet project. I made this script (don't click if you just ate, you may yack a little) http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Il5w which is scraping for all the channels on netsplit.de's site | [02:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013859 – sounds very nice! | [04:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 21:55:17 dorion_road: jfw spent the past weekend here in vt, I took him on a couple hikes and countryside drives. we made the most out of the little to do here. | [04:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why scrape the chans from netsplit.de though? doesn't each network have some cmd to get the full list? | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | ie scrape the network list, sure but why chans? | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw have you seen http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956017 ? it was for you after all! | [04:53] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-24 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-23#1955954 was re ztkfg.com/2019/12/finding-meaning-in-a-deterministic-world-part-3/ btw, nfi why i thought it's self-obvious yest. | [04:53] |
| diana_coman: | hm, that was a bit too quick, Nemo_bis! | [08:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do take out the pagination of comments on your blog, it's useless and it even gets in the way (there's some setting from the dashboard, somewhere) | [09:23] |
| bvt: | dorion_road: ty, holidays (well, a short trip rather) were very nice. | [09:35] |
| bvt: | I have a question to the BUILD document: what does 'Install package signing key(s) in installer/ and update installer/initramfs.list.sh' refer to? is it a TODO item or something i am supposed to do? | [09:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm curious, how did you know I had pagination of comments enabled? It was set to paginate at 50 comments and afaik I don't I have an article with that many comments | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the link for comments contains "page-bla" or similar. | [12:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah okay | [12:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For freenode I found the command /msg alis list you have to feed it a regex and it only returns a maximum of 60 channels | [12:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: iirc there was something like /list directly; granted this was some… uhm, 15 years ago so if you are indeed sure that's all there is, I suppose you'll have to work around the idiocy. | [12:54] |
| dorion_road: | bvt that step isn't necessary. jfw can correct me if I'm wrong, but what he has in mind there is a way for a package to be built on one system, signed and then deploy that package across multiple machines. | [12:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah nope /list seems to work | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956026 | [13:07] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-24 diana_coman: jfw: Keksum's 3rd genesis is now signed and mirrored; as you've gathered already the previous comments on your article directly, I linked that and there's no need that I see for an additional article; also, you messed up something with your Keksum's article title now. | [13:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and i did notice http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956017 last night. i was surprised it was not from confusion from both lobbes and i having gone from blog.lobbesblog and whaacked to krankendenken and ztkfg respectively. now I should either change my theme or somehow get my widgets on the side for my individual articles. | [13:08] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-24 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-23#1955954 was re ztkfg.com/2019/12/finding-meaning-in-a-deterministic-world-part-3/ btw, nfi why i thought it's self-obvious yest. | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: btw, re Kant, if you just start reading philosophy, I recommend you start with Popper at least, it'll be both easier to follow and of more immediate interest to you I'd think. | [13:09] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-23 dorion_road: Unfortunately I've not yet read much Kant, though I know I need to. | [13:09] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter the recommendation holds for anyone else interested ( whaack jfw shrysr ?) | [13:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, if you don't ack, how would one know you noticed? why didn't you simply say thank you there or something? ack is not only for me/here, obviously. | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah just because of the inertia of self voicing…i'll get to it now | [13:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and I will gladly add Popper to the reading queue | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | I should add I suppose that Popper is more of a historian of science rather than philosopher in a classical sense; so perhaps not as much starting on philosophy proper; still an easier introduction on that path I think. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | ha, forgot lobbes ^ | [13:18] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013841 << going to spell it out in a piece I've got baking after I finish the one for the OS gents. | [13:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 06:21:20 diana_coman: trinque: I'd be very glad to discuss with you the tmsr-os as business really and I quite want to know how you actually see it/what you have in mind currently about it. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: sounds good; I'll read it. | [13:52] |
| trinque: | what concerns me about the former is I hear a lot of grand, elevated language that reminds me of some folks in the last batch, here http://dorion-mode.com/2019/11/implementing-tmsr-os/ | [13:52] |
| trinque: | and not a lot of mature process | [13:52] |
| trinque: | "here's a thing we were asked to do, the republic is very important, it has some things like V, and now lets dole out work" | [13:52] |
| trinque: | so I'm laying out the shape of such work, can be taken or left when it's done. | [13:53] |
| trinque: | if it continues as it is, "here are the things we need and therefore" it's towards-purpose, and success will be therefore accidental if success comes. | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: I can see what you mean; there are some differences in this case though too :) but I think laying out the shape of such work as you see it would be very useful indeed. | [13:55] |
| whaack: | I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [18:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent most of my day working on my article. It took roughly 5-6 hours. I've only done about 2 hours of saltmines, and my neighbor stopped by and invited me to Christmas Eve dinner with her family, which I think is right to accept. I will consider that Spanish study again, and just go short on my saltmines hours for the week. | [21:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and btw, Merry Christmas! | [21:59] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did my writing assignment and my spanish exercise. For the writing assignment I proofread first a few times without using a spellchecker. Then finally I did use a spellchecker and I saw there were a few words I had spelled egregiously wrong that I had missed. So I know for a fact my brain is filtering / not parsing the text correctly when I review. I have little to show apart from the writing assignment/S | [00:30] |
| whaack: | panish hr. I wanted to have my computer built today but instead I wasted time with various b.s. such as the power button fiasco and retaking pictures. | [00:30] |
| whaack: | An unexpected event for tomorrow is I have to go to another birthday bbq here. There is no traveling and it is just lunch, so I'll try to keep it as short as possible and count it as my Spanish study for the day. | [00:33] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/23/ejb-review-week-0-dec-16th-dec-22nd/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 0 (dec 16th – dec 22nd) | [05:16] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: where's your plan for this week? | [05:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: plan's being baked now. Since I'm going to be doing the holiday thing next week I wanted to plan out the week after next as well so I had plan to come back to | [05:35] |
| lobbes: | (and indeed, as it is about 4am here these plans are definitely late) | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: holiday is fine, planning for the week after next is fine again; being stupidly late like this is just stupid; being silent about it is idiotic; need I say more? | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | deadlines are not just some random hours either; now I had the time set out to read through all the plans and reviews and give feedback; yours is not there so guess what will happen? | [05:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: It is stupid; and indeed I'm just getting in the way of the entire point by being late like this | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: mk, finish it whenever you finish it and I'll get to it perhaps some other time this week or next Monday. | [05:43] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ok. I'll make sure I get a handle on my timeliness for the future | [05:46] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/23/ejb-plan-week-1-dec-23rd-jan-1st/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 1 (dec 23rd – Jan 1st) | [06:12] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: also, your previous plan was supposedly to be updated with the actual times as you went but that part died on the 19th? | [06:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: re procrastination, we'll get to it but in a nutshell, it's precisely this the root of it; so yeah, I'm not at all surprised. | [06:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:57:02 diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know? | [06:16] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: I'd be very glad to discuss with you the tmsr-os as business really and I quite want to know how you actually see it/what you have in mind currently about it. | [06:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 15:46:13 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013694 – hm, what do you have in mind as "business around tmsr os"? I get the impression you mean something quite clearly defined but I don't really know what. | [06:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: timings for prev. plan added (I had timings on my desk notebook yet did not keep blog updated) | [06:33] |
| lobbes: | I'll get the plan for Jan 2 – Jan 5 out tomorrow; sun's about to come up here and my cognition is waning. | [06:33] |
| lobbes: | bbl | [06:33] |
| whaack: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-23#1955954 <<– Hmm what is mp referring to? Perhaps this was meant for lobbes ? | [09:43] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-23 mp_en_viaje: whaack, hey, that's not even bad. | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I think he did mean lobbes's ebuilds article, yes. | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | but you can ask him, you know? | [09:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I had the idea that I did not have the right to speak in #trilema, but I will use my common sense going forward. | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ofc you have the right to speak in #trilema; you also have the responsibility to use it well and not talk nonsense, yes; but answering when spoken to comes under "use it well"; so yes, use that common sense, certainly. | [09:58] |
| whaack: | diana_comand: understood | [09:58] |
| bvt: | dorion_road: i will try building and installing gales over the next 3 days, will write a review afterwards, should finish everything until sunday | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: I'd certainly read a review on building and installing gales; might even come in handy for when I finally get around to try it out too. | [16:38] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: this is definitely a necessary step, because tmsr os is more probable to be gales-based than cuntoo-based. Re installation, the BUILD document looks rather detailed and well-written, so the whole procedure must already be solidly tested | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: indeed; and at any rate, if the docs turn out to not be detailed and well-written enough for a fresh install, I'm sure jfw and dorion_road certainly want to hear about it. | [16:49] |
| dorion_road: | bvt perfect, I'm looking forward to reading. thanks for the update. should any questions arise in the process, please ask jfw or myself. | [21:48] |
| dorion_road: | bvt how was the holidays ? | [21:49] |
| dorion_road: | jfw spent the past weekend here in vt, I took him on a couple hikes and countryside drives. we made the most out of the little to do here. | [21:55] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/24/ejb-plan-week-2-jan-2-jan-5/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 2 (Jan 2 – Jan 5) | [22:40] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Dec 2019
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/22/wh-review-of-week-10-dec-16th-dec-21st/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 10 (Dec 16th – Dec 21st) | [01:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I finished the daily article + wrote my review + plan for next week. I was quite tired and even took a 30 minute nap after the birthday party and drank coffee at 4pm to get the article+review+plan done. I am waiting until tomorrow to do my 30 minutes of planning for my next article. Tomorrow I will be building my computer. | [01:36] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/22/wh-plan-for-week-11-dec-23rd-dec-30th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 11 (Dec 23rd – Dec 30th) | [01:37] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013506 << I agree. I'm going to pick up that point in trilema right now. | [13:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 07:03:00 diana_coman: trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque). | [13:06] |
| trinque: | also diana_coman, I would benefit from your view on whether a business around tmsr os is viable, premature, what. | [13:08] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013556 << did you write this? runit already exists, and is exceptionally small | [13:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:19:07 whaack: diana_coman: Tackling the two headed beast, I am going to be splitting my time between reading the books recommended by trinque and moving forward with the irc project. I am starting to read The Art of the Metaobject Protocol right now. Later today will work on setting up a process monitor. The process monitor will run on a separate machine, and check every ~2 seconds to see if TheFleet is running. If it detects the process is dead | [13:09] |
| trinque: | I have intended to have runit as process 1. | [13:10] |
| trinque: | as it happens, a stripped-down runit lives in busybox already. | [13:10] |
| trinque: | has process supervision, etc. | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: great news! /s the helpful ticos already assembled the computer for me. They kept the packaging light+compact, leaving out the boxes for the various parts (w/ their instruction manuals). Oh and they left out the sd card reader entirely, which they informed me after I asked to confirm I had everything while picking up the package from the mail. | [13:20] |
| whaack: | I'm going to post pictures of how they assembled it, find all the manuals online, start disassembling the computer, and then put it back together. | [13:26] |
| trinque: | heh, turn it on first eh? save yourself some "did this ever work?" later | [13:27] |
| whaack: | trinque: well it's 90\% assembled, except the hard drives i ordered separately so they are missing. | [13:36] |
| trinque: | just saying not to mess with a system in all manner of ways prior to taking some measurements of initial conditions. | [13:36] |
| whaack: | trinque: alright i'll examine it + turn it on before I change anything. | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: When you do get to disassembly, see how they handled the thermal interface between the CPU and heatsink. | [13:42] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I was curious about that since I have my thermal paste out on the desk. I'll take note. Is there anything I need to be particularly careful about / watch out for while disassembling? | [13:46] |
| whaack: | The photos: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/the-preassembled-machine/ | [14:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack just if the heatsink and CPU take a LOT of force… they may have used epoxy. When you apply the new thermal paste make sure all of what they used is removed. | [15:01] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: thx | [15:05] |
| trinque: | dude this "ever helpful ticos" thing is real. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Dec-2019#1013681 – indeed, I'll fix it, thank you. | [15:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-21 17:03:29 bvt: diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href) | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Dec-2019#1013686 – well, talk to him since it's anyway better for you to talk to intelligent people; and don't worry either way, let him figure out (or not) stuff, what. | [15:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-21 22:08:35 whaack: English. Although unfortunately for him I worry that he bites into the US politics fast food too much. I have another close friend from Stuy, but same things with the politics + he has gone down the dark path of California and SV monopoly money like most of my MIT buddies. | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: we keep in touch and him + the doctor friend recently planned to visit me in the beginning of March | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | do return the visits some time too though, at the very least. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013694 – hm, what do you have in mind as "business around tmsr os"? I get the impression you mean something quite clearly defined but I don't really know what. | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:08:34 trinque: also diana_coman, I would benefit from your view on whether a business around tmsr os is viable, premature, what. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013700 – ahaha; this is…unexpected. | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:20:47 whaack: diana_coman: great news! /s the helpful ticos already assembled the computer for me. They kept the packaging light+compact, leaving out the boxes for the various parts (w/ their instruction manuals). Oh and they left out the sd card reader entirely, which they informed me after I asked to confirm I had everything while picking up the package from the mail. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol, I think they did it to save money on shipping | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013704 – second this! | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:36:37 trinque: just saying not to mess with a system in all manner of ways prior to taking some measurements of initial conditions. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and yes I will return the visits. From one perspective, they are now the ones returning my visits. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thing is, this sort of "helpful ticos" is precisely how they make the worst messes, the "helpful clueless" so ugh. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [15:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mhm. I am even concerned about turning on the machine. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: didn't you talk to them when you picked it up? ie you expected to pick up a pile of components and …it wasn't that so ? | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I sent them a picture of the box (unopened) and I asked "have I picked up everything?" having been surprised because it just looked like the box for the case, I expected there to be a few other little boxes. They responded, "yes, everything is in there, except we couldn't get the sd card reader." So I took the box home, but I did not open it until today when I realized it was preassembled. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, did you even get all the docs at least? | [16:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No the box is missing a few manuals most noteably the one from the motherboard. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Or did you mean mounting docs? There was nothing other than what was inside the Case other than the extra cables from the modular PSU and two sata cables. (Also you might have meant did I find the manuals online – I am searching right now.) | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I meant the manuals for each component, yes. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | so ugh indeed, what a mess; I'd say turn it on and see what happens – if anything! (or possibly they even installed Windows!) | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | and then you'll probably have to call them anyway, at the very least to give them a piece of wtf, have them send the manuals and explain just how does "those components" end up as "this 2nd hand machine you sent me" because seriously now, how do you even know it's new? | [16:34] |
| trinque: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-08-06#1515840 << reminds me of | [16:35] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-08-06 trinque: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=20015 << if the world ever rights "helpful" is going to be a euphemism for "tries to slip dick in when you turn your back" | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: lol, if only they even had what to slip at all. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Didn't even occur to me think about the 'not new' scam. Turning on the machine did nothing. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: knowing a bit re ticos, I would even be inclined to say they probably didn't think of it either, lol; but it's still the sort of very, very unhelpful help; the "good intentions" that make that road to hell basically. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | is worried that the power cables may have been plugged into the motherboard but not the psu itself (hidden from view) and thus I may have fried the PSU for flipping the switch. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that's on *them* | [16:42] |
| trinque: | how'd not being plugged in fry something? | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now I realise I can't quite parse that frying-sentence; what is it, again? | [16:46] |
| whaack: | I was warned in the guides I read about PSUs that turning on a PSU without having it connected to the motherboard would fry the PSU because it would have some complete circuit without a load. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | "Attach the power cables now. If you forget about them and later fire up your computer while the ATX connector is not connected to anything, then you will fry your computer's power supply. Computer power supplies need a load attached to the main power connector or else they will burn out when you plug them in." From https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble3.php | [16:48] |
| whaack: | (Of course that would be on them, but I don't want to have to pay for their mistakes if I can avoid it.) | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so you mean a shortcircuit? not sure why worry specifically about that though because from what you say, it might be that *nothing* is connected. | [16:51] |
| whaack: | yes I mean a short circuit | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | and no, if it's on them, it means specifically that *they pay* for it, not you. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | what sort of "on them" is it otherwise, lol. | [16:52] |
| whaack: | well i'm going to have to pay with my time regardless | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that you already have to pay anyway because you got something other than what you ordered and so there's more work to do, clearly. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, I think first step is to have a good look at what's in there + decide what are you going to do about it ; second step is anyway to call them. | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: already called them, but they're closed on Sundays | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | right, lolz. | [16:55] |
| trinque: | mmmm, pretty sure PSUs are turned on by a closed circuit being formed by the motherboard. | [16:57] |
| trinque: | there are some pins that get connected by pressing the power button, which in turn tells the PSU to fire up power on the other pins. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | trinque: that's what makes the most sense to me, i don't see how the PSU is going to have a short circuit that gets broken by being plugged into the motherboard. That's why I spelled out short circuit as 'it would have some complete circuit without a load' | [17:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It's hard to see what might be the pin headers on this motherboard. | [17:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | At least from the given pictures | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did they actually assemble the computer or just stuff everything in the case ? those pictures are pretty terrible btw, can't see much. | [17:03] |
| whaack: | sorry, I will upload better pictures. It looks like it is assembled but the power switch not doing anything makes me question. I am perhaps derping and missing some switch I need to flip on the motherboard. | [17:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: There should be a block of pins on the board where various cables from the case including the power button get attached | [17:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Pretty sure those are the cables in the top right of the motherboard in the picture | [17:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Is the other side cover of the case readily removable? | [17:07] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: yes…just a few screws. I'll include a view from the other side for the new pics as wel. | [17:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Aite. In addition to taking pictures, follow which wires are connecting what things. | [17:10] |
| whaack: | i'm goign to try to remove the PSU cover rom the case as well | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hopefully you know that even cases have some docs to help you figure out what/where/how if it's not obvious (I've seen some cases that can be rather puzzling indeed) | [17:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the case manual is one of the few i have, it is a thick little booklet | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you don't need to do a full detailed read right now, just to figure out what/where/how really so you can even know how to get to stuff /if it's in the right place anyway. | [17:36] |
| whaack: | kk. (I'm holding off on posting new pictures because they will not be that useful as the important stuff is hidden.) | [17:37] |
| whaack: | oh man I derp'd pretty badly. There was another on switch I missed on the other side of the case. | [17:40] |
| whaack: | an on button* I only flipped the on switch | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen, set the new toy aside for a bit and decide first wtf are you going to do exactly. | [17:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My plan is to (1) test it can turn on (2) read all the instructions of putting it back together + the various manuals I find online. (3) dissemble/reassemble it and then use it. I fucked up step (1) embarrassingly, but my plan is the same. | [17:47] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-22#1013747 << 1990s ps needed min. load. current-day ones, generally not. | [17:48] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 20:40:06 whaack: "Attach the power cables now. If you forget about them and later fire up your computer while the ATX connector is not connected to anything, then you will fry your computer's power supply. Computer power supplies need a load attached to the main power connector or else they will burn out when you plug them in." From https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble3.php | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: fine but before pushing buttons, inspect that all parts are in place and connected, you know? visual inspection is part 1 of assessing the darned thing esp when it's not what was expected. | [17:48] |
| lobbes: | I will say this helpful-ticos thread has been educational for me. I wager I'd be in a similar boat as whaack if this had happened to me | [17:49] |
| whaack: | lobbes: what boat am I in? lol | [17:50] |
| lobbes: | whaack: from you article you said you had zilch experience for computer assembly. I too have this zilch | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was/am doing that. I just saw your instructions 'turn it on and see what happens' and so i flipped the power switch and raised my fist 'goddamn nothin!' and then during my inspection realized 'oh right, power button in addition to power switch' | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | ah, I see; lol. | [17:53] |
| whaack: | i even pulled out the damn multimeter on the power cable lol | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how's that ebuilds write-up coming along? | [17:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: it is coming along (and hint taken; will get back to work) | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: good; review+plan are also due today, right? | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is correct. I will get those out too. | [17:59] |
| whaack: | on the bright side i get extra practice, computer disassembly + assembly. The preassembly is only a real problem because of the could-be-used-parts issue. I found the motherboard manual and I'm sure i'll find all the other missing ones online. | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you know the difference between intimated/intimidated, compromise/comprise? | [18:02] |
| whaack: | is thinking | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for some context1 and context2 because it's getting painful to read this sort of mistakes. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | yes, i know the difference enough to know those are awful errors. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how come you keep making this sort of mistake though? | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is this some sort of "if spellchecker did not complain then it's the right word" or what? | [18:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I proofread everything by reading out loud softly at the end, but yes I may be getting a false sense of confidence from the lack of a red squiggly. | [18:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: should I not have a spellchecker at all? | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: since you seem to be dependent on it rather than merely using it, yes, ditch it until you stop this nonsense. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: when you proofread – what are you looking for? | [18:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Loosely in the order of importance: ~ Unclear meaning, awkward wording, repetition, overuse of adverbs, misplaced modifiers, unclear antecedents | [18:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have a ready enumerable list, which is itself a problem. I also don't have 'spellchecking' in there because it's true I use spellchecker to spellcheck, and I guess my hope is that errors such as the above would be caught under the 'awkward wording' scan | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, when you look at some code, do you have a ready enumerable list of "problems I am looking to find"? | [18:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it goes the other way around (as it usually does): you are not to look for "a list of problems" because you can't possibly list them all anyway (sure, with experience, you can make a reasonable list of most-usual and that will be better than nothing but it won't be great reviewing, no) | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | what you are looking for is the opposite: is this sentence/para/text-so-far clear, relevant, any good (here the def is fuzzier, obv)? | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | you can much more easily and usefully enumerate what the text should be than all the possible ways in which it can fail to be | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay that makes sense. I need a list of do's rather a list of dont's. | [18:27] |
| whaack: | rather than* | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and more to the point, it gets again back to your pebble – even at review time, do NOT throw your pebble! you need to read it with a. fresh mind precisely so you can stand a chance at evaluating if it's any good (not if it's bad-this-way-or-that-way) and b. unsympathetic mind (aka it's your enemy's text rather than your own) | [18:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. Part of the issue may be related to time management. I'm always pushing over a little over 1.5 hours for the article itself so I'm rushing the proofread process (the first one, at least.) I talk about this in my review, and I believe the problem is further upstream and my articles take longer because I have a mediocre outline from the previous day. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so take whatever steps you need to take to fix that, sure; also, ftr, if you find you need to adjust something, just say it + argue it, what's the trouble? | [18:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: What are you referring to when you say 'if i find i need to adjust something?' I am comfortable saying/arguing adjustments to your instructions if I think I have a good reason to. | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then why exactly "rushing the proofread process"? | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | that IS snowballing too, it doesn't magically become something else just because it got sort-of-done. | [18:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I am already going overtime with the rushed proofread process. And to be clear I am still proofreading for a decent amount of time and then taking a break and doing another proofread. I was okay with make 1.5 hour writing assignments 2-2.5 hours, but I believe if I spend more time than that then i'd be repeating the problem I had from the previous week. | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what exactly are you spending on what ? because now it's confusing what exactly is taking that much time. | [18:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the bulk of wasted time comes from restructuring the outline of my article halfway through writing it. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm; does the first review do much? | [18:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well i think i measured before, i often do a major restructuring of part of the article or the entire thing during my first review. But if I do that, then I also do another proofread at the end of the restructuring. | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: something is off there because by the sounds of it you end up with 2 major restructurings and so yes, you are again pushing towards the original overkill; I'll see tomorrow your review and hopefully it's clearly stated in there just what you are doing. | [18:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Alright thank you, but no my review does not clearly state an explanation of what i'm doing – it only mentions quickly what I think is the problem + a solution. | [19:01] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Writing done + got everything done with my trip to SC. (The entire trip was just under 5 hours) I was invited to a night-time picnic on the beach as I was taking out the trash, and I used the opportunity to replace my Spanish studying. That took about 1.5 hours and I had to excuse myself to keep it at only that. I was invited by them to go tomorrow morning to a beach to have breakfast. Tomorrow there is als | [01:21] |
| whaack: | o a bbq for my landlord's birthday at noon. | [01:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I would like permission to do both of the above. The trip to the beach with the neighbors will take ~3 hours and the bbq will be ~2 hours. | [01:23] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/21/rmd-review-dec-14th-20th-2019/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Dec 14th-20th, 2019 | [01:34] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/21/rmd-plan-dec-21st-27th-2019/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Dec 21st-27th, 2019 | [01:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: go ahead; and enjoy! | [04:35] |
| trinque: | whaack: re: sha vpatches, these were produced prior to the switch to keccak. I can regrind them. | [15:32] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href) | [17:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ty, btw. The birthday party went a little bit late, and the writing assignment went over time again, so I am pushing to get the reviews done. An error I've been making with the writing assignments is I've been doing a poor job since I leave the 30 mins of planning for the next day as the last item before I go to bed. | [21:46] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013595 << I left this question unanswered. From MIT I have little to show. Most of my buddies there were made smoking and so I fell into the wrong crowd. They are 'doing well' in the sense of making 6 figures in monopoly money at some SV firm. There are a few friendships at MIT I failed to grow with some smart do-shit type of individuals, I can try to reach out to them and see wha | [22:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:54:14 diana_coman: or for that matter, aren't any of your former colleagues at stuyvesant or mit doing anything interesting ffs? | [22:08] |
| whaack: | t they're up to. In Stuyvesant I did a bit better, I have a tight nit meatwot that has lasted ten years. I have one close friend who has been very successful in med school and has his choice of pick for residency. His stories of the bs that goes on in hospitals are hilarious if not terrifying. I have another who is getting his Phd in physics in Paris. He is fluent in Hebrew and conversational/fluent in French and Italian on top of | [22:08] |
| whaack: | English. Although unfortunately for him I worry that he bites into the US politics fast food too much. I have another close friend from Stuy, but same things with the politics + he has gone down the dark path of California and SV monopoly money like most of my MIT buddies. | [22:08] |
| whaack: | speaking of monopoly money, i have a contact interested in buying 00,000 worth of btc. Pure cash deal that I will broker, if anyone in the CR area is interested please gpg me. | [22:11] |
| whaack: | (If you are interested in doing a smaller amount feel free to inquire as well) | [22:14] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Did my Spanish + Writing. I did 1hr of surfing today, and otherwise worked on the irc project. I did not get time to do the process monitor, and am pushing it back until I have a better idea of what TheFleet is going to look like when it is running on various irc networks. I read the appendix of The Meta Object Protocol that goes over CLOS and read the introduction. The book is pretty dry and I think I may | [02:08] |
| whaack: | want to read more about CL in general before I tackle it. I spent some time reading ircbot's source, I have a decent grasp of all its working – I can give it another read tomorrow/Saturday and then sign it and shortly after sign logbot as well. I dug into the cl-irc library it uses a bit, and started to read the rfc's for irc to get a better idea of the design of the system i'm exploring. Following thimbron's work I found the list | [02:08] |
| whaack: | of top irc servers + number of channels they have https://netsplit.de/networks/top100.php . Assuming that is not a bogus list, iterating through all the channels of top 100 networks + 'out of competition' networks seems like a good goal. There will be some hurdles to work through: I found for example freenode limits a user to 120 channels. Lastly I figured out how to connect to multiple channels with logbot (ben_vulpes had wrote a | [02:08] |
| whaack: | vpatch for this that I found in the logs, I lost some time not realizing that there were 2 separate vpatch files for 1 patch – one vpatch for logbot and one vpatch for ircbot.) | [02:08] |
| whaack: | Tomorrow I have a lot to do in Santa Cruz: pick up my computer, pick up my keyboard, pick up mail from the states, go grocery shopping, and get my debit card from the bank. | [02:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a productive day yesterday overall; the limit to 120 channels on freenode means one bot per 120 channels and/or walk the chanlist over a longer timeframe (aka first 120 chans logged over January, next over February and so on if absolutely must); re list on netsplit.de certainly, it's that one I had in mind anyway (didn't realise you weren't aware of it). | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | trip to Santa Cruz sounds like a good break too and sorting out needed stuff anyway. | [03:31] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013561 << I'm trying to unpack what makes for a superior form of identity; e.g. RSA signatures are better than hand written signatures because hand written signatures are rela | [15:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:24:09 diana_coman: e.g. "A strong individual identity is unique and expensive to replicate which generates signatures that are expensive to forge" – what?? | [15:52] |
| dorion_road: | tively cheap to forge. if I'm off there, what characteristics do you think make for a strong form of identity ? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: that sentence just doesn't parse at all, I just couldn't follow what you were trying to say. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | I could guess, sure; had about 3 guesses at it, lol. | [15:53] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yeah I can see that. I was trying to be concise and also I was working out the concept. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013563 << thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to say that tmsr tools are superior and create greater incentives for the individual to strengthen himself and meanwhile his alte | [15:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:29:39 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013526 – so to answer your stated question: I think you are trying to make the point that tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly and the larger environment; you have some concrete ideas & points as to how and why but your article doesn't really marshall them in any orderly way. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | rnatives are weakening because Bitcoin is a fuller specification for money. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | apologizes for the broken lines above. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | listen, you are trying there to do essentially synthesis and that's one of the …more difficult things to do properly and clearly, are you aware? | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | the way you go about it, it's what tends to happen at first attempts – you end up with just the top of some whole tree at best and nobody can follow or tell what it was about. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: do you think my summary there doesn't fit your text? | [16:00] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that paints the picture well, and no, I wasn't conscious that synthesis was/is what I'm doing. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | heh, what do you call it when you read 1001 things and you try to distill it all in …what do you have there, 500 words? lolz | [16:01] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I think your summary does fit the text, I think I need more time to see just how incomprehensible the first section is. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: well, that part is easy really: read it to someone from outside and see what they get; | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | but getting back to what you wanted to say: the "create greater incentives for the individual to strengthen himself" is the weaker version of my "tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly" | [16:03] |
| dorion_road: | agreed. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: how did you choose the structure ? | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | (the alternatives weakening would be again towards "the larger environment" but still more remote and weaker really) | [16:06] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm bringing up my outline, one sec. | [16:06] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I had more points from researching and thinking about what to include, when I got to writting I decided to focus on the top two, identity and money, and then went to explain why tmsr tools for identity and money are superior. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: uhm, your article though was supposedly focused on tmsr-os so first of all you should have made clear first the link tmsr-os -> identity+money | [16:10] |
| dorion_road: | right, I didn't establish that. | [16:12] |
| dorion_road: | I definitely see a reforge attempt in the near future. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | thing is, you didn't quite explain that either; you put them in, sure, but explaining them, hm. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: listen, you really need to start with smaller steps here, you are trying to step over what seems to you a tiny bump but it's a ..mountain, lol. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | so: it's all right and even very good to write stuff down to work out the concept, just as you said here: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Dec-2019#1013626 | [16:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-20 15:55:28 dorion_road: diana_coman yeah I can see that. I was trying to be concise and also I was working out the concept. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | that is part of the required steps *before* you can actually write the sort of thing you were trying to write there. | [16:16] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yeah, I can see that, heh. taking smaller steps seems to be the thing that could most improve my writting overall at present. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | and at all times, if you are aiming to write something *for others* ie not to work out the concept for yourself but to help others see stuff clearly, then you need to a. be already fully clear on all the points you want to make (and I mean this in a very specific way, there's a lot to it) b. think through and choose the best structure, not just "top two " or something. | [16:18] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that makes sense. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I'm sure you read a lot (and a lot of times) and so you have quite a wide view and can reference properly but you lack yet the practice structuring it all and making a clear argument in writing there, hm. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: what practice do you have with writing anyway (other than the private journals, I mean for others, reports, anything)? | [16:21] |
| dorion_road: | agreed. you pointed out similarly how I often don't see depth. | [16:21] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I've written some business plans and write clients. I did some documentation and copy writting for coinapult, but for the copy writing they wanted me to dumb things down. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | oh yes, copy writing is a sort of anti-writing, yes; (for my sins, I know it better than I wish I did). | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | what do you mean by "write clients"? | [16:24] |
| dorion_road: | write emails to them to develop the relationship, provide updates, etc. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | ah, right; hm. | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman fyi I have a couple errands to run in ~15 minutes. jfw will be arriving here in the next hour or two. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: heh, I need to leave in ~5 minutes anyway | [16:27] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thank you for helping me to untangle both the message and the method. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | I'd say a. write at least a few articles that are exactly focused on working out one single concept b. after that aim for one of those that bring several together but if you want some help,better come with the outlines first and ask. | [16:28] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that sounds like just the write thing, will do. | [16:29] |
| dorion_road: | right* | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, write the right thing, yes :P | [16:29] |
| dorion_road: | haha | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | and maybe you do write this year that hunting thing too or you'll start 2020 with an audio article le gibier manque et les femmes sont rares | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [16:30] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, that's part of the rebalancing plan. | [16:33] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I completed my writing + Spanish study, but did closer to 5hr of work for the irc project than 6hr 45min. I was at my desk and didn't do any obvert avoidance behavior, but I had to take care of some things such as dealing with coordinating the delivery of my keyboard on the phone. I installed logbot again on another VM, proofreading my instructional article while doing so. The article is just about ready to | [00:54] |
| whaack: | publish, although I could use some css improvements to better display bash commands on my blog. | [00:54] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/19/the-wayside-articles/ << Young Hands Club — The Wayside Articles | [01:16] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: in what I sadly suppose isn't a big surprise, several of my planned tasks this week are falling through, perhaps most notably today's – well, Wednesday's – publications | [02:00] |
| jfw: | reflecting a bit, since we last spoke I chose to prioritize responding in #t due to the upcoming potential offline spell, and let myself get drawn into the reading; then travel prep of course, wherein I also found some housekeeping debts to catch up on. The time-consuming articles this week contributed to a pile-up today too | [02:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013483 – re-genesis with the self-test is certainly better than nothing; other than that, you could I suppose just run my ada-keccak as ref since that's the practice anyway, isn't it? | [04:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 17:00:59 jfw: Do you have such test data for the original keccak? Otherwise, would you prefer I re-genesis now with fixed self-gen test, or postpone and try to figure this out? | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013490 – I'd like it in here as I can follow then more timely; some threads though might still belong in #t (eg if MP's input is needed); at any rate, I do follow & read all chans currently (if a bit slower on others than #o and #t at times). | [04:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 22:54:10 trinque: diana_coman: since jfw and dorion_road appear to be in your house, where would you like the OS thread carried? | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eod sounds good, looking forward to the article and then gradually the data & finally exploring this as it's been sitting around and waiting to get done for some time. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013496 – myeah; trouble is your prioritising tends to end up along the lines of "which ball did I drop already, will pick it up now rather than later?"; way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know? | [04:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 02:24:44 jfw: reflecting a bit, since we last spoke I chose to prioritize responding in #t due to the upcoming potential offline spell, and let myself get drawn into the reading; then travel prep of course, wherein I also found some housekeeping debts to catch up on. The time-consuming articles this week contributed to a pile-up today too | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should? | [04:28] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque). | [07:03] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-19 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955677 << this may even be so. but trinque , have mercy : in obtaining any desired result, the manager has indeed to await patiently for ~all possible~ results be delivered ? there is NO possibility of choice available, you mean, in the sense of none ~at all~ ? | [07:03] |
| jfw: | "way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know?" – indeed. | [07:33] |
| jfw: | keksum re-genesis out, and I'm off! | [07:53] |
| diana_coman: | enjoy your holidays jfw ! | [07:58] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013505 << I'm seeing I didn't explicitly write about how I prioritize, which is what I said I'd write about. I wrote about priorities changing and why, but not about how I choose to do what when. | [11:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 04:28:56 diana_coman: dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should? | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: exactly; why or how does it end up morphing like that without notice? | [11:12] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't properly review the task I wrote before and while I worked on it. | [11:15] |
| dorion_road: | It got morphed in my meat memory for reasons I don't know at present and I didn't rely on my notes to check the work. | [11:17] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman also, you probably noticed that it was submitted at the deadline I set for myself. When I hit publish, I knew it wasn't my best work, but I published what I had. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: myeah; at the very least review/re-read before you start on it since it does seem like your idea of what you were aiming for tends to change without you even noticing it. | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: re deadline there's a few questions for both articles of yesterday really; how did it go anyway? (iirc on Sat we touched briefly on this and the timings; there was no update so "everything is fine") | [11:22] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I had made good progress on the +ev article on tuesday. i had gathered more references/reasons than I ended up using, so narrowing down to what I wrote took about and hour more thought than I had planned. | [11:32] |
| dorion_road: | I was on a tight schedule last night and decided to published rather than postpone the deadline. | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: fwiw I had quite some trouble following the +ev article; read it twice and I think I got more or less what you wanted with it but I'm not so sure how much sense it makes for someone who doesn't already know what you are talking about there. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: that much is clear re tight schedule; the q though is why do you keep pushing everything so it's ~always on a tight schedule quite predictably. | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | and you know, postponing the deadline is something to do the day before, not one hour before the deadline, as I'm quite sure you know already. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha, Romanian teachers @ Stuyvesant! I had no idea, lol. | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and at MIT too? iirc there's actually at least a former highschool classmate of mine at MIT, lolz. | [11:39] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks for the article feedback. what did you infer what I wanted to say ? | [11:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: haha yup. I think that they may have all left though, I know my two teachers did. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm sure there are some at MIT too although I don't remember any. | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: heh, now you want me to pack your whole article in a sentence on the spot too? | [11:41] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman re the tight schedule, I think it's been an acknowledgement of how much there is to do; these last few weeks are showing me approaching it on a tight schedule isn't the best way to go about it. | [11:41] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman heh, I'm trying to ask question here ! | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: a question you certainly asked :) | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: do you find you'd rather spend all the time on tmsr-os reading/writing/thinking and so you cram the rest only if/as needed on the side? because frankly this is how it looks like from outside. | [11:45] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm seeing that's what I have been doing and learning that's not sustainable. | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you'd be surprised re "all left" ie some may have left and there's still plenty just waiting to get there instead and "live the dream"; it's exactly that after all, more of their own imagination than actual cold fact. | [11:47] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman these next few days I don't have any tmsr os articles planned, so will balance myself out and then jfw is arriving here tomorrow through the weekend. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: how do you mean/see this balancing? | [11:51] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-19#1013499 << got it, ty | [11:51] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 08:03:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too. | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: more than just not sustainable, it's also not best even for you getting where you want to with tmsr os itself; this was my original point re "not in isolation"; for one thing it's quite a central item anyway; for the rest, you need to integrate a lot to figure out a path for it too so narrow focus won't work best even if it were sustainable by itself (it does sound more like leading to burnout but anyway). | [11:53] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I mean I have a buffer of time where I can re-evaluate how to proceed in re-balancing to more sustainability. | [11:55] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman you're exactly right about the importance of integration. | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: all right; take that time then and let's see what comes out of the re-evaluation. | [11:58] |
| dorion_road: | thank you diana_coman | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Can't say I'd be too surprised, I've noticed that the 'chumpatron' or what have you cycles through people of the same culture. | [12:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The install article is done. Going to do my writing for today and then get to work on the next steps of the irc-exploration project. The trip to Santa Cruz is scheduled for tomorrow, everything should be there: presents, keyboard, computer, and debit card. | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there are some vpatches with sha and some with keccak, seriously?? | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | also, you should provide at least some checksums for those archives you mirrored. | [12:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yeah the different types of vpatches were a bit of a PITA. Especially when I had to find that bug related to have one space ' ' vs two spaces ' ' with keksum vs. sha512sum | [12:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 18:47:42 whaack: jfw: hm a small detail I noticed about keksum. the output contains 1 space between the hash and the filename, whereas my shasum on my mac and sha512sum on ubuntu contains 2 spaces between them. Afaik there's nothing wrong with your choice, and i don't know why those other hash functions put 2 spaces instead of 1, but I have to tweak my v.pl a little more to make it be compatible with this. | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should point trinque to that at the very least. | [12:40] |
| whaack: | trinque: The few pain points in downloading your sources: The biggest is the above problem where some of the vpatches are made with sha512sum and some with keccak. The other is the directory format is inconsistent, for logbot and ircbot you have an extra directory /v/ before /patches/ and /seals/. The last is that the naming convention of the vpatch files is inconsistent. For example for most of your tools (such as geepeegee) you n | [12:47] |
| whaack: | ame your genesis simply 'genesis.vpatch' but for ircbot and logbot you name the genesis 'ircbot-genesis.vpatch' and 'logbot-genesis.vpatch' | [12:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay I will update the post with the checksums right now. | [12:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Tackling the two headed beast, I am going to be splitting my time between reading the books recommended by trinque and moving forward with the irc project. I am starting to read The Art of the Metaobject Protocol right now. Later today will work on setting up a process monitor. The process monitor will run on a separate machine, and check every ~2 seconds to see if TheFleet is running. If it detects the process is dead | [16:19] |
| whaack: | , the monitor will (1) alert in channel and (2) run a command to restart TheFleet | [16:19] |
| whaack: | (TheFleet being the name of the process that logs all irc channels on all irc networks.) | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: on a 3rd re-read of your +ev article, it strikes me that it seems to actually start going somewhere only at the 6th para really; and some of the previous ones are quite incomprehensible. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | e.g. "A strong individual identity is unique and expensive to replicate which generates signatures that are expensive to forge" – what?? | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | basically up to that 6th para you seem to jot down your own notes rather than saying something clearly. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013526 – so to answer your stated question: I think you are trying to make the point that tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly and the larger environment; you have some concrete ideas & points as to how and why but your article doesn't really marshall them in any orderly way. | [16:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 11:39:45 dorion_road: diana_coman thanks for the article feedback. what did you infer what I wanted to say ? | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's your current plan re networks and chans + joins? | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have one yet. The first work that needs to be done is determine the number of channels and networks that are in existence and then design TheFleet based on those numbers. I haven't begun to do this, I was going to start by looking at the list of networks from thimbronion's attempt to contact admins. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: should add: the article doesn't quite make the ideas & points all that clear first of all; the lack of setting them properly to work comes after. | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Also I need to determine what criteria a channel must meet for TheFleet to put a nick inside the channel. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you don't need to plan it ALL upfront really; for one thing it might very well be that each network has its own specific requirements/whatever so .. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, I don't even know *what* information you can get automatically from each network. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | afaik you can get the list of chans | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | not sure if anything more than that re each chan, at least not without joining so… | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: from the other side too, why would it NOT join a channel, anyway | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | let it join, what; collect data for 1 month and then see; if it gets kicked from a chan, let the chan be, not like I want to force anyone now out of the hole they enjoy, what. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The only reason it would not join a channel in set P is if P is too large. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | what is "too large" and why? | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't know the max number of channels the bot could handle, but for one it can't sit in all possible channel names. | [16:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: If possible it may be interesting to preemptively park it in empty channels, such as all channel names that are words in the English dictionary. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you should certainly know that max number of channels the bot can handle, heh; and then it's not ONE bot but a fleet so they split the chans as needed, no? in extremis, you can further simply cover subsets on different time frames. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | eh, I want it to log one month of each and every chan that exists, not as much to create new ones now, what would that do? | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | it may be different exact 4 weeks for different chans, that's not a problem in itself. | [16:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Say a dorion and jfw type pop in a channel to talk, and we are already there to catch that conversation | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | if anything, I suppose the holidays season would make perhaps for less activity | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what? I'm not after snooping on what people happen to say every other time in a blue moon/wherever they hide from mommy or something. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | sure, such cases may exist, some chan coming alive with 2-3 people once per week or dunno; but if it doesn't happen at least ONCE in a month, I'd say it's really not worth anything. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | even that is quite finegrained as it is. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, you made me curious – what's a "dorion and jfw type" anyway? | [16:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha. I meant a pair of people doing something interesting. | [16:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: They would be possibly sitting in channels that are hard to find / not listed | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, then they are not yet doing something interesting :P | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | by definition of "interesting" | [16:51] |
| whaack: | haha fair enough | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not directly related but at least it pinged now through my weirdly wired thoughts: you mentioned (to lobbes I think) your alumni mailing list and similar; is there anything interesting happening *there*? | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | or for that matter, aren't any of your former colleagues at stuyvesant or mit doing anything interesting ffs? | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I haven't seen any interesting activity on the mailing list in a while. However there are people with keys and I think some that may be quite interesting in joining #o should they learn about it. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | interesting or interested? lolz; anyway, why not talk to them at least, see where they are and what they are up to? | [16:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will do that. There is some discussion about doing more meeting / introductions that happened on the mailing list a few days ago. I organized a bitcoin meetup once with about 15 people | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | as in …actual people or sheep-people ? :p | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | when was that? | [16:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: A couple of years ago, I think in 2015 | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | what came out of it, anyway? | [16:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ~nothing. I think the meeting itself went well, I did a little presentation on how the btc protocol works, discussed the 'block size debate', people were enganged and asking questions, but I did not follow up with others afterwards. | [17:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It's mostly sheep-people, but also some actual people in the list (imo) | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: just to be clear, I don't mean at all to "preach", no; but literally talk to people, find out what they are up to, and only if they ask at all, mention any of the things you think are most interesting for them anyway, from the coolness of "own os" to btc wallet or computer graphics, dunno. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: awww, why not follow up, seriously; that's quite the important part, if you are to get anything for your trouble really. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | such surprises you keep to :P | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | too* | [17:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: re not following up – I didn't know better / was lazy. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | heh, I see. | [17:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I understand that you don't mean to preach. That said I think a eulora ad may do well on the mailing list | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | if only I had already the proper client with smg.comms and everything ready too, argh. | [17:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there is no rush, that door will remain open | [17:08] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Dec 2019
| lobbes: | diana_coman: so I had a brief exchange with trinque and he suggested a linux-from-scratch exercise as a way to get a better grip on the fundamentals of an OS. | [00:15] |
| ericbot: | (trinque) 2019-12-18 trinque: LFS will teach you more about what actually constitutes a working system, because you'll make one with your hands | [00:15] |
| lobbes: | It actually sounds like a good idea to me, because part of my reason for wanting to help the tmsr os effort was to pay some of my learning-debt, but as I chew through the ebuild/Portage study I'm coming to terms with the basic fact that the debt I carry is quite large. | [00:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 22:35:03 diana_coman: as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too, | [00:15] |
| lobbes: | I'm thinking it may be prudent for me to instead just focus on paying that learning-debt down before I try to directly contribute to tmsr os (I fear I may just slow others down atm). I wanted to see what you thought about it anyway. | [00:15] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo, diana_coman: http://welshcomputing.com/jfw_travel-cert.asc | [00:59] |
| jfw: | (and to whomever else my travel key may concern.) | [01:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I had to edge into the night a bit, but I finished the schedule: writing exercise (2h), saltmines (8h), proofreading writing exercise (35min), preparing tomorrows writing exercise (15min), setting up postgres on VM (3hr), Spanish study (1h). The writing went overtime because I finished at t=90mins without having done a proofread. I have my VM setup. I can connect my local slime to an sbcl process running on | [03:20] |
| whaack: | the VM and spin off logbot threads. I have a test bot running in #whaacked. | [03:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013362 – when do you think you'd be done with a lfs exercise? | [06:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 00:15:22 lobbes: It actually sounds like a good idea to me, because part of my reason for wanting to help the tmsr os effort was to pay some of my learning-debt, but as I chew through the ebuild/Portage study I'm coming to terms with the basic fact that the debt I carry is quite large. | [06:24] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 22:35:03 diana_coman: as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too, | [06:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: to be explicit: it does sound like a good idea and a reasonable way to get you to figure out the basics, yes; at the same time though: 1. you can't now take the next 6 months to figure out what linux is; 2. you already did *some* investigation of the ebuilds system and so you should at the very least wrap that up and publish whatever you figured out (for yourself at a later stage if for nothing else); 3. at this stage it's … | [06:29] |
| diana_coman: | … anyway unclear if the ebuilds system is going to be of any use so the task there is *exploratory* really, not more and as such, it's something that can & should include documentation/research as needed, without dropping it all; 4. you can *use* lfs as a resource to learn, it doesn't have to be a project by itself. | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | understand also that for almost ~any practical work/project, you'll always have to ride this double-beast of a. making the most of what you *already* know b. learning and improving your knowledge+skill as much as possible as you work. | [06:34] |
| diana_coman: | (although I think I said the above some 10 times at least by now, apparently didn't quite say it in the logs so now it's here to link in the future, too.) | [06:35] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what's your current deadline+deliverable for the ebuilds investigation anyway? | [06:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013366 – your travel key concerns …you! silly. | [06:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 01:01:31 jfw: (and to whomever else my travel key may concern.) | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013367 – did the writing go overtime as in spinning on it or as in had more to write so kept on writing? | [06:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 03:20:38 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I had to edge into the night a bit, but I finished the schedule: writing exercise (2h), saltmines (8h), proofreading writing exercise (35min), preparing tomorrows writing exercise (15min), setting up postgres on VM (3hr), Spanish study (1h). The writing went overtime because I finished at t=90mins without having done a proofread. I have my VM setup. I can connect my local slime to an sbcl process running on | [06:39] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013368 – sounds good! | [06:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 03:20:38 whaack: the VM and spin off logbot threads. I have a test bot running in #whaacked. | [06:39] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013360 << you didn't ask me, but here's an idea : as a starting point, why don't you lean of jfw's experience adapting lfs and build and install Gales ? | [10:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 00:15:18 lobbes: diana_coman: so I had a brief exchange with trinque and he suggested a linux-from-scratch exercise as a way to get a better grip on the fundamentals of an OS. | [10:56] |
| ericbot: | (trinque) 2019-12-18 trinque: LFS will teach you more about what actually constitutes a working system, because you'll make one with your hands | [10:56] |
| dorion_road: | spyked, bvt, triqnue and diana_coman all said they have going through the process on their list in the near future. | [10:56] |
| dorion_road: | trinque* | [10:57] |
| dorion_road: | Doing it yourself and writting a report about it will add leverage to that conversation for everyone as what to adapt from Gales, Cuntoo, else to TMSR OS becomes understood. | [10:57] |
| dorion_road: | As for a time estimate, a data point is we guided our clients through the build, install and initial configure in ~4.5 hours (3 ~90 minute sessions). This includes explaining things to them, their beginner command line inefficiency and building on dual core, 4 GB RAM system. | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: would you rather he writes a report on Gales first than on ebuilds? what's exactly the priority/goal/status re ebuilds anyway? I'm getting a bit confused now re this part as I didn't keep it in head to this level of detail. | [11:21] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman ebuilds is most interesting in my view for the automatic dependency resolution and because there's a lot already extant. the cost of terraforming it vs. adapting the Gales build system isn't yet clear. | [11:31] |
| dorion_road: | regarding priority, lobbes, how far along are you and how much more time do you estimate on the ebuild report ? when is your deadline ? I know you have other items on your plate, e.g. auctionbot. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: so what are you after from him as a first report? | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | re ebuilds I mean. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: for that matter he actually did ask you – did I miss the answer to that? | [11:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-16 20:26:42 lobbes: dorion_road: I also wanted to pick your brain re: my eventual report on the state of the ebuilds. Where I currently stand is I've only ever used Portage; I've never really dug into it. I know it is a beast, so I was hoping that you could help me narrow my focus onto what specifically you'd like me to find out about it | [11:33] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman jesus, I did miss that. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | good he asked some more then, heh. | [11:35] |
| dorion_road: | lobbes focus on the automatic dependency resolution. I don't know how such a mechanism will fit under V / TMSR OS , but that's a big point of leverage that Gales lacks. | [11:40] |
| dorion_road: | have you delved into that at all so far ? | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: what's your current vision for this particular part (I guess it would be Package Management from your list)? | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | you are possibly in the best place atm for it anyway since you know Gales' system + you have some idea re Portage as user if not about internals; but from your article there, I don't really get any idea beyond "there's portage and there's gales" and we need something. | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I rather doubt it'll be either terraforming portage (I expect it would be a huge task really) OR directly using Gales' system as such; ie what I see missing there is some thought/root of thought into the V-shape of this | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: to ask it from a different angle too: in what way do you think the automatic dependency resolution of ebuilds may carry over directly to tmsr-os given its v-package management? | [11:47] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman the vision is a bit unclear atm and I agree the root of how to integrate with V is the biggest piece missing. I've used both, but my perspective isn't as informed technically and I'm looking forward to what my betters have to say about Gales once they've tried it to help clarify next steps. | [11:50] |
| jfw: | See also my thinking aloud and MP's response which was pretty enlightening to me re what V-shaped OS means | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | ha, jfw can't claim the "isn't as informed technically" | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that gales is his so… | [11:53] |
| jfw: | note that 1) dependency resolution in the abstract isn't rocket science, toposort as seen in V is maybe 15 lines of code; 2) I specifically didn't include it in Gales because didn't want to over-develop something that had to be thrown out anyway once V-OS was clarified | [11:53] |
| jfw: | from the above link, the ideal as I understand it is: there is no "package X requires separate package Y, some portage is needed to glue them together from different sources"; only "patch X builds on Y vtree, and system needs to support whatever X you wish to press". Static linking seems quite essential for that actually | [11:56] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman right about jfw , and as far as ownership, I think he would be a good fit. we haven't talked about what he wants to do yet, in part because wallet dev, travel, etc. I also think he'd be a good fit for compiler and C library if ave1 doesn't want it. | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ah, I wasn't trying to push jfw into doing it all, lol; just meant that you *can* pick his brain to help you get a better vision there esp as he's the authority on Gales, what. | [11:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Writing went over time for a reason closer to the ~ 'had more to write so kept on writing.' I finished getting down what I had to say at ~ t=90 minutes, and then still had to proofread. | [11:59] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't take it that you were pushing, and pick his brain I will :) | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and note that lobbes is basically saying precisely that he's not all that competent technically either so make up your mind there re what does installing Gales do anyway – you can't simultaneously claim that it didn't do much for you re getting a good technical grasp and at the same time suggest it to lobbes for..getting a good technical grasp, you know? | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that's the good type of going over time then; hopefully it will get even longer & you'll simply split it in 2 installments/articles if needed. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, comment in your mod q. | [12:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah thank you. I forgot to mention it to Jacob / comment on his – I had read that piece by jfw, and that's what inspired me to write my mine. | [12:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: tsk; do link refs already, don't do the silly "forgot to link" stuff. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | esp if it actually inspired you to read yours, just how exactly you …"forgot"?? | [12:10] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that's true. for example, it helped me clarify what static linking, cross compiling, etc are. my comment about technical grasp was more about steps forward in V-ifying the package management, rather than strengthening me from where I was. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: if only you'd wrote about it at that time :P | [12:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had read his article a few days prior and thought that a 9/11 piece would be a good topic for an open ended article. I guess it would be better to say while writing the article i didn't take the action to link / comment at the point when I remembered jfw's. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: anyways, to coordinate a bit here so poor lobbes doesn't end up entirely confused: from tmsr-os perspective, would a Gales-installation report be more useful atm than a beginner's take on ebuilds investigation? | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so take that action each and every time! and yes, better said like that. | [12:16] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman lobbes I think a Gales installation report would be better atm. espcially if there still remains a lot of work cut out for lobbes on the ebuilds. ebuilds can be approached as necessary after. | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: cool then. | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do a write-up of whatever you have already on ebuilds, just so it doesn't go to waste; take Gales and install it + report on it and remember that it's basically an accelerated lfs + you might still get direct help from jfw and/or dorion_road if you get stuck (and ask, ofc). | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion_road while I haven't really spent time specifically pondering the v-shape of a package management system, I think it essentially stems from that fundamental "each V-tree" is the context of its all vpatches; as such, for one thing there isn't an "automatic dependency resolution" external to the v-tree because what would it do anyway, mess up trees or what exactly? and the problem otherwise switches more to a proper grind … | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | … of the tree ie a reader/signer's thing rather than a system; ie possibly even different grinds of "my OS" since anyway, tmsr-os or not, it's still up to each user what exactly they run on their machine. | [12:33] |
| jfw: | whaack: glad to be of inspiration and looks like you're off to a strong start on the daily writing! | [12:35] |
| whaack: | jfw: ty! it is quite enjoyable | [12:35] |
| jfw: | lobbes: feel quite free to ask for help re Gales as needed. | [12:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack, I won't hesitate to link going forward | [12:35] |
| jfw: | the LFS handbook might make a good companion reference too, as I recall it went into greater depth on some explanations, though many of the steps involving glibc / dynamic linking aren't needed. | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | ^^^^^^ | [12:37] |
| jfw: | (needed by Gales at any rate.) | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's your plan re chan and blog over the holidays? | [12:38] |
| jfw: | I plan to follow the log and chime in as needed though it might be sporadic; on the blog, will keep an eye out for comments but not planning to write new articles | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | prolly better off calling it "I'll be offline but I'll try to at least read the logs"; makes for closer-to-likely-reality expectations all around. | [12:43] |
| diana_coman: | kind of curious if you'll find it harder to write after the break :D | [12:44] |
| jfw: | hmm… your closer-to-likely expectations have been on target so far so I won't dispute. | [12:44] |
| diana_coman: | well, I can always bait you with a lot of discussion of your own code and then you'll get online. | [12:46] |
| jfw: | likewise curious on the writing, maybe I'll at least keep a journal to stay in something of the habit | [12:46] |
| jfw: | could be, heh. | [12:47] |
| jfw: | I'd like some help as to adequately approaching the recall and reload / setting down carefully and time-consumingly process | [12:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-17 16:36:29 diana_coman: whaack: that is very possible; the other part to this is to start getting better at helping your recall and reload really; let me fish something out for you. | [12:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 04:11:25 diana_coman: To be explicit: there are just 3 options there, namely a. you drop the work quickly and painlessly now to pick it up painfully in January b. you set down the work carefully and time-consumingly now to pick it up easily in January c. you don't do either and therefore take the work (or parts of it) with you on holidays too, whether you sit down to do any of it or just carry it in your mind anyway. | [12:50] |
| jfw: | so far I've listed the tasks in flight and planned, and there's the earlier planning articles too | [12:51] |
| diana_coman: | is looking for that… question mark. | [12:51] |
| jfw: | Can you clarify the steps that you find helpful there? | [12:52] |
| diana_coman: | yay, question! jfw, this is a bit of an iterated/person-specific process really but essentially what I found I'm aiming for is to jot down the main bits of context really | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | tasks in flight and planned as you say sound good but also ideas/why | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | because – or at least the way I work – there's a lot of thinking before/in those "tasks" and it's mainly *that* part that is painful to lose/have to pick up from start again (or even remember that uhm, I was thinking of that/this/the other/pondering) | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | so I end up listing all sorts, including constraints (why I wanted to do this and not that) and wtfs | [12:57] |
| jfw: | . | [12:57] |
| jfw: | whoops. Makes sense | [12:57] |
| diana_coman: | or if it helps, maybe look at it from the other end: what would you want to have on one page to read to get you quickly back up to speed when you come back to it? | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | (then again, do note that my eulora work has consisted up to date mainly of figuring out and trimming a ~500k+ clusterfuck, so possibly on the heavy side in terms of tangles.) | [13:00] |
| jfw: | aha, seems I can manage mostly by reference to my own things from here | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [13:02] |
| jfw: | well except those trb patches, heh, but they're still not too invasive. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | happy you. | [13:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For my schedule today (2hr 15 min on writing, 1h Spanish study, 8hr 45 min on logbot / irc exploration project) I prefer to go ~2 hours short for logbot / irc so I can get to bed earlier. Last night I had to pick between going against my word or staying up late, and I chose the later. I would not like my schedule to shift into the night. | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: makes sense. | [13:17] |
| whaack: | CR is not a place for night owls, it is much nicer to wake up at ~5am here lest you cook in your bed in the morning | [13:19] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013429 << the matter needs to be considered further and i read your reasoning to be strong. in each deployment the user subjectively selects the vpatches and sigs for a particular machine and his plans for it. | [15:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 12:33:03 diana_coman: jfw, dorion_road while I haven't really spent time specifically pondering the v-shape of a package management system, I think it essentially stems from that fundamental "each V-tree" is the context of its all vpatches; as such, for one thing there isn't an "automatic dependency resolution" external to the v-tree because what would it do anyway, mess up trees or what exactly? and the problem otherwise switches more to a proper grind … | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | it's just my initial thought on it really, so I expect there will be more discussion on it esp as things get moving otherwise, certainly; the main thing though is that in this/similar, I fail to see much use/space for ebuilds/portage/very-similar. | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re ~5am in CR, that's pretty much the hour I was up each and every day of those 2 weeks I was there (+ even in the streets it was easy to notice that everyone had the schedule essentially earlier than the usual in Europe); the light was enough for the wake-up-at-5. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, it was rather… exhausting overall. | [15:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I imagine it was exhausting from the heat + the walking/traveling you did, not from waking up at 5am since ostensibly you also went to bed earlier | [15:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Going to bed before 10pm consistently was a major shift for me when I got here, but it is the only schedule that makes sense. Given the heat the two best times to be outside are sunrise and sunset. A walk at night in CR is awful, especially in non urban areas where there is no light and instead just a bunch of bugs out to eat you. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the "went to bed earlier" didn't quite…work out, no, lol. | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | but there was also some jet lag and all the rest, indeed. | [15:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha well at least there was good coffee here to aid you. (iirc you mentioned in your smilely alligator article that you drank some even though you do not drink coffee normally) | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | yes; and the rum to not-help. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | heh, not complaining though, no. | [15:41] |
| whaack: | lol | [16:18] |
| whaack: | well i have found a quite weird bug in my mpwp. I have 5 superscripts linking to footnotes in the body of my article, as I should, but only 4 footnotes appear down below. | [16:19] |
| whaack: | figured out problem. It was caused by a double quote, ", in an anchor tag being accidentally written as a single quote, ' | [16:23] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: in searching for test data for the full keccak sponge I've found "known-answer test result" zip files at https://keccak.team/archives.html ; despite the "warning, obsolete!11" these appear to come from various iterations of the NIST tweaking and I've not been able to reproduce at least by a naive interpretation of the test format. | [16:57] |
| jfw: | Do you have such test data for the original keccak? Otherwise, would you prefer I re-genesis now with fixed self-gen test, or postpone and try to figure this out? | [17:00] |
| jfw: | I see one sponge test at http://ossasepia.com/2018/01/25/eucrypt-chapter-7-keccak-sponge/ but seemingly for a 5-bit input whereas my prog demands bytes. | [17:06] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i wrote a comment re your vtronics piece (sadly much belated, was in uruguay) , is in your spam queue atm | [17:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My next step is to spin up a new VM and test run my instructions by reinstalling everything. There were a few "do, undo" steps I took and I want to make sure that (1) I have a pure environment without files I forgot to uninstall (2) I/anyone else can quickly rebuild using the instructions | [18:12] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-18#1013441 << sounds good to me, I will aim to have write-up of what I have already on ebuilds done by the Sunday. After that I will do a Gales install and report. | [20:52] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 16:23:58 diana_coman: lobbes: do a write-up of whatever you have already on ebuilds, just so it doesn't go to waste; take Gales and install it + report on it and remember that it's basically an accelerated lfs + you might still get direct help from jfw and/or dorion_road if you get stuck (and ask, ofc). | [20:52] |
| lobbes: | ty diana_coman, jfw, and dorion_road for the feedback, and I'll definitely reach out for help during install. | [20:52] |
| trinque: | diana_coman: since jfw and dorion_road appear to be in your house, where would you like the OS thread carried? | [22:54] |
| trinque: | here? #trilema ? my chan? | [22:54] |
#ossasepia Logs for 17 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Completed today's schedule: 1.5hr of writing w/ 15 min proofread + 30 min prep for next day, 8hr saltmines, 1hr of Spanish study. There was still some spinning/derpage (specifically ~1hr of texting at the end of the day) and it is clear that this new 'more aggressive' schedule still leaves quite a bit of room for improvement. | [01:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah; basically you are able to do way, way more than you have the habit to choose to do. | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: btw that review of time in tmsr is fine as an overview, still missing the conclusion part where you look at it all as laid out and attempt to figure out some concrete lesson to learn from it, moving forwards. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's not clear at all from your current plan is what are you going to do re work and holidays, esp since the wallet is not going to be ready before you leave, is it? | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | To be explicit: there are just 3 options there, namely a. you drop the work quickly and painlessly now to pick it up painfully in January b. you set down the work carefully and time-consumingly now to pick it up easily in January c. you don't do either and therefore take the work (or parts of it) with you on holidays too, whether you sit down to do any of it or just carry it in your mind anyway. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so which of a,b or c above you reckon it will be? | [04:11] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'm headed out to mines now, but I will give this some thought throughout the day. My initial take is that I'm not sure there is a single lesson that can be taken; rather a collection of them (which I thought I kinda touched on, but perhaps there's value it me laying it out explicity to myself) | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: better explicitly than implicitly for sure; and several lessons/collection of them, sure. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | the main trouble with "implicit" is that you can (and will) conveniently ignore/change it/lie to yourself about it, that's how it goes; so yeah, explicit & written down. | [11:02] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I see that without a firm decision it would default to option a, which sounds none too appealing. I think my free time on the holiday would be best allocated to reading; if I find myself inspired to continue coding then so much the better, but unwise to bank on it. So I'd better take option b and it'd be a good practice to learn anyway. I recall you linked an example from eulora work | [12:33] |
| jfw: | (i.e. taking the time now to set down the work carefully) | [12:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm wondering what to do for a travel key, thinking it unwise to carry my main one into the Zone, in light of http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/ . One thing I learned from that is apparently I could have been giving dorion_road his !!ups all this time – I hadn't realized! | [12:50] |
| jfw: | but with the contemplated change, I gather I won't be able to stay in the channel except when speaking, unless a lord rates my travel key +2 | [12:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: I can do that if you sign the announcement of your travel key. | [12:53] |
| jfw: | thanks BingoBoingo, solves that nicely. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I must say I feel quite happy knowing there is (what appears to be) a low resistance path to improvement. Cutting some of the bs should be quite easy. I'm going to work to make it into a positive feedback loop, as I gain from cutting out bad habits I'll be more inclined to get rid of the more entrenched ones. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm pushing back my trip to Santa Cruz until tomorrow/Thursday since there's a birthday present in the mail that won't arrive until then. That gives me 4 additional hours today, I will use 1hr for Spanish study and 3h for setting up my VM for the systematic exploration of irc networks project. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I can rate your travel key, not a problem. | [13:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds all good. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter if the new model is deployed sooner rather than later, I'll re-rate dorion_road's travel key to 2 as well so he can speak as he needs to, what. | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Dec-2019#1013342 – sounds good. | [13:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:33:52 jfw: diana_coman: I see that without a firm decision it would default to option a, which sounds none too appealing. I think my free time on the holiday would be best allocated to reading; if I find myself inspired to continue coding then so much the better, but unwise to bank on it. So I'd better take option b and it'd be a good practice to learn anyway. I recall you linked an example from eulora work | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Dec-2019#1013345 – btw, this was *yet another one* of those asking-without-asking; jfw if you keep at it, I'll start thinking I'm enabling bad habits by even tolerating those at all. | [14:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:52:15 jfw: but with the contemplated change, I gather I won't be able to stay in the channel except when speaking, unless a lord rates my travel key +2 | [14:19] |
| jfw: | right you are diana_coman, noted. | [14:24] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-17#1013354 << This resonates with me quite a bit actually, as I have definitely caught myself doing this "internal sliding" before. Anyways, I have added my key takeaways for each year. Ty for the feedback | [20:02] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 14:57:44 diana_coman: the main trouble with "implicit" is that you can (and will) conveniently ignore/change it/lie to yourself about it, that's how it goes; so yeah, explicit & written down. | [20:02] |
#ossasepia Logs for 16 Dec 2019
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012415 <– aite, sorry for the delay (ugh, I've been doing this too often for the last coupla weeks). will do this asap | [05:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 13:10:45 diana_coman: spyked: can you add the younghands.club feed to feedbot in here? | [05:44] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: thanks! and wb. | [05:46] |
| spyked: | ty diana_coman, it's good to be back | [05:48] |
| spyked: | feedbot's up and checking for yh feeds for the chan. pl0x to let me know if it misbehaves | [06:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: My day started late (at about 11am) because I got back late last night and slept in. I spent about 7h setting up my VM, and then did 1hr of reading + 25mins preparing my article for tomorrow (today). For the vm’s os i am using centos 6. I got sbcl and quicklisp running on the vm and was able to load trinque’s code. There were some hiccups in getting sbcl working… the version I could get from yum was t | [10:18] |
| whaack: | oo old / incompatible with the libraries trinque’s code uses, and for some reason the latest version on sbcl’s couldn’t build. I was eventually able to get version 1.4.14 running smoothly. I can create a swank server on the remote machine and connect my local slime via an ssh tunnel. I am currently working on getting postgres running on the VM. | [10:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm sending the eod report this morning because there was a net split last night. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds ok but you should write-up the above and publish on your blog really. | [10:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have been taking notes including all the commands I ran to produce the writeup, I was thinking the article is incomplete without postgres running but I guess it would be useful to have a standalone how to 'centos6 VM w/ sbcl running a swank server' | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it can wait until you have postgres running too and you publish it all in one article, not a problem | [10:27] |
| lobbes: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/15/ejb-plan-week-0-dec-16th-dec-22nd/#comment-209 << diana_coman on my way out the door to saltmines, but I indeed forgot deadlines; will add tonight. | [10:59] |
| lobbes: | bbl | [10:59] |
| lobbes: | (I linked to wrong comment above, should be: http://younghands.club/2019/12/15/ejb-plan-week-0-dec-16th-dec-22nd/#comment-212) | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: works. | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I didn't further comment on your blog and review as I think they got quite covered during Saturday's discussion; is there though anything specific in there you want to ask about? | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | meant plan* and review. | [15:42] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks, saturday covered it quite well indeed. I'll add the discussion as a comment where it makes sense. saturday was clear and at this point I don't have any questions. I'm on track to meet my deadline for the tmsr os mission and vision genesis article today with buffer. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: cool, glad to hear it. | [16:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, due dates have been added. | [20:26] |
| lobbes: | whaack: I've started to poke around the remote-saltmine market. I was wondering if you could recommend any specific job seeking strategy that helped you snag yours, or if it was simply a wot-hookup (looking back, virtually all of my jobs I've landed in the last decade were through my meat-wot; have never had much luck with the indeed.com or linkedin platforms) | [20:26] |
| lobbes: | dorion_road: I also wanted to pick your brain re: my eventual report on the state of the ebuilds. Where I currently stand is I've only ever used Portage; I've never really dug into it. I know it is a beast, so I was hoping that you could help me narrow my focus onto what specifically you'd like me to find out about it | [20:26] |
| whaack: | lobbes: My high school has a mailing list for all the students who were active in the comp sci community. I got my current gig responding to a job posting there. So no, I don't have a systematic job search strategy that works for everyone. In general I believe scanning one's meatwot is the best way to go. One strategy I've heard of although never tried is spamming employees at companies with referral programs. Then instead of being | [20:40] |
| whaack: | 1 in 1,000 emails sent to a recruiter, you are the ~only email, and you explain to the employee why you think you can get the job and remind them that 'hey if they hire me you get ,000' | [20:40] |
| whaack: | (or whatever the referral bonus is) | [20:41] |
| lobbes: | whaack: That is an interesting idea re: spamming employees at companies with referral programs. Mailing lists at old schools are something I didn't think of, I'll poke at that as well. But yeah, nothing beats a healthy wot | [20:48] |
| lobbes: | whaack: ty for the infos | [20:48] |
| whaack: | lobbes: gl. i'll be looking for a new gig soon as well since my contract finishes in February. If I see a good opportunity i'll send it your way. | [20:51] |
| lobbes: | whaack: tyvm (and gl on your search as well) | [20:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 15 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | as I finally realise that there are a few names I don't even know: lobbes, what's the J in ejb for? dorion_road, what's the M in rmd for? | [09:42] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman michael, robinson michael dorion. | [11:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: james | [11:28] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: btw speaking of names, how do I properly pronounce your last name? I've always assumed I knew but never confirmed it | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: thanks. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: thanks; and heh, you should prolly wonder how to properly pronounce even the first if you are after properly pronouncing, lol. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | coman is quite easy/as it seems really – as long as you don't introduce in there any spurious l (colman) or the like (as English-speakers seem to be sorely tempted to do); hah, there's even a youtube on it, look at that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NT0oC_oxY | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what languages do you speak ? | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw the switch to diana was mainly to spare the English going red in the face trying but failing to pronounce irina; at least for diana they have some reasonable idea that works. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | hello DKordic | [11:59] |
| DKordic: | Greetings, diana_coman and everyone else. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | what brings you here, DKordic ? | [12:03] |
| DKordic: | I enjoyed Your blog. It was inspiring. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, nice to hear that! | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | what did you read/like? | [12:04] |
| DKordic: | Let say loper-os.org the most :) . | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, that would be asciilifeform's blog! | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what are you interested in? | [12:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | DKordic: I'll let asciilifeform know when I see him in a few minutes, we're about to head out for some tourism | [12:06] |
| jfw: | sounds like quite some adventuring over there BingoBoingo, enjoy! | [12:07] |
| DKordic: | Excellent. Enjoy. | [12:07] |
| DKordic: | As we can see I am a bit slow :) . | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | take your time. | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did I answer more than you asked for? lolz. | [12:10] |
| DKordic: | I still have to think about it. As some say ""it restored my faith in humanity!"" It can be contrasted with http://dev.to/ and even worse http://medium.com/, but those should not even be mentioned, so I apologize ;) . ""The least we know about them the better. "" | [12:14] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: heh, I actually did a brief dive into dev.to at some point – it saved at least one person | [12:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-08-11 11:57:46 diana_coman: shrysr: eh, you realise that it's because I wasted some time in that shithole, precisely trying to see if there was anyone lost in there | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: do you have a blog? | [12:21] |
| diana_coman: | knowing stuff even about shit and shitholes can still have its uses even if it's indeed not a very pleasant way to spend one's time, sure. | [12:23] |
| DKordic: | Not yet. I am strugling with a diary (ChangeLog if You like), a private blog. | [12:23] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: why private ? | [12:23] |
| DKordic: | Yes, I saw Your thought about dev.to. | [12:23] |
| DKordic: | It has to start somewhere. I don't have much to say publicly (yet). | [12:24] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: eh, that's never true, you know? look here, you *are* saying something publicly, you know? | [12:25] |
| DKordic: | :3 | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | don't be shy, it's not to your advantage really; and there's nothing to lose for speaking publicly, quite the opposite. | [12:25] |
| DKordic: | What are most straightforward ways to set up a blog? | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | hmmm, that straightforward part is not-all-that-well defined, as it depends on what you find straightforward | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: how are you with computers, if you don't mind me asking? | [12:29] |
| DKordic: | Yes, exactly. It was a sily question. | [12:30] |
| DKordic: | Just an enthusiast. | [12:30] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: eh, don't beat your questions up right from the start, let them grow first :)) | [12:31] |
| DKordic: | Or more of a gambler ;) . | [12:31] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: an ethusiastic gambler? | [12:31] |
| DKordic: | I wanted to say, successful as a gambler. | [12:32] |
| DKordic: | [ROFL] | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: and what does that mean more precisely? lol | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | re blog, the way it goes whether you find it "straightforward" or not is to get yourself a server (even if it's a cheap virtual machine only, to start with), install mpwp above and then get going; there are a few guides around to help you along, you can ask and people will help, it should be doable. | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | iirc some providers even have profiles for VM ie you can get it directly with php and apache and mysql installed so you need only stand up mpwp | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | but then choose centos 6 so you have reasonable versions of everything or it'll be a huge pain. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: do you mind if I ask you how old you are? | [12:37] |
| DKordic: | s/successful/as successful/ | [12:37] |
| DKordic: | Born: 1991 | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | cool, thanks. | [12:37] |
| DKordic: | I am currently studying http://www.t3x.org/clc/index.html and similar. What do You think about that website setup? | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: it's not a good one for interacting with people and *most* of the benefit of having a blog/writing publicly is exactly the interaction with people | [12:39] |
| DKordic: | I see. | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | I get it, it's very "cool" and hacky and good ole' green on black, sure. | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: don't fall for the "recluse" and "working alone against the evil world" or something like that, it's not worth it. | [12:42] |
| DKordic: | I will give my best. | [12:43] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what do you want to do with Lambda Calculus that you are studying that and similar? | [12:43] |
| DKordic: | Not to waste so much of my effort in daily use of computers. | [12:51] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what's your daily use of computers about? (ie what do you do with them?) | [12:52] |
| DKordic: | Only practice programming :3 . ""Art for the sake of art"", or more precisely ""LiSP"" :D . | [13:01] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: well, I enjoyed functional programming so I can see the appeal but seriously now, what's wrong with doing something …useful too, hm? | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | I'll get to call that "art for the snake of art" – fixed it for you :D | [13:03] |
| DKordic: | OK What would be something useful for a start? In other words what should I ame for? | [13:05] |
| DKordic: | s/ame/aim/ | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: there's about a ton of work to be done around here, from tmsr-os to eulora game, computer graphics and anything under the sun; the question is more along the lines of …who are you really ? :) | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: you should register a key with deedbot too to …start being someone around here anyway; see http://deedbot.org/help.html | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: know also that you do not have to wait to "be ready" or "know X and Y" or something like that; the sooner you dive in, the faster you'll advance (provided you do make the right decisions and put in the required work, true). | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: seriously, what happened to you? | [13:14] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013217 << not at all! I asked those q's right after I woke up and checked logs, then went about morning business. In retrospect, I oughta have said I was going afk | [13:14] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-15 16:06:12 diana_coman: lobbes: did I answer more than you asked for? lolz. | [13:14] |
| lobbes: | (Then I saw you were engaged with DKordic; didn't want to interrupt the flow) | [13:14] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013200 << aha okay, it turns out I was pretty close in my head somehow! ty | [13:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-15 15:29:15 diana_coman: coman is quite easy/as it seems really – as long as you don't introduce in there any spurious l (colman) or the like (as English-speakers seem to be sorely tempted to do); hah, there's even a youtube on it, look at that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NT0oC_oxY | [13:15] |
| lobbes: | ended up looking up both diana and irina via that same youtube source, and will admit to playing irina a few times before he could parse lol | [13:15] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013201 << I am still ESL sadly. I've haphazardly been practicing both German and Spanish for about 4 years, but no serious study. fwiw I took French in high school, but I retained pretty much none of it (though I find that I did retain some of the general pronunciation rules of French, if that makes sense) | [13:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-15 15:31:35 diana_coman: lobbes: what languages do you speak ? | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, at least the French pronunciation rules should have helped really; anyways, yes, you should have said *something*; don't just vanish like that. | [13:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: roger that. In the future I'll let you know before I vanish lol | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | as the Ro saying goes, "nu disparea ca magaru-n ceata" (~don't vanish like an ass in the fog) | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | so you know now. | [13:20] |
| lobbes: | read that translation first as "ass in the frog" | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | why not :)) | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: but seriously, not only "before vanish"; it's the good old "acknowledge stuff", ok? | [13:20] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this I do understand. I will make sure to acknowledge | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: take your time as needed but also *ask* questions – still as needed. | [13:22] |
| DKordic: | OK Thank You. | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | no problem at all. | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: When I start parking bots in other channels on other networks per your instructions on my review, would you like me to (1) ask whether or not the chan admins mind if the bot takes a seat in the room (2) place the bot in the room unannounced, but use a nick with 'bot' as a suffix (3) place the bot in the room with a nick that makes it appear human ? | [13:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hmmm, for the lolz I'd do 2 and log who/where/if kicks you out and after how long but for the practical side, I'd just go with 3 for starters; just set a timer ie don't join at the same time all channels or something; there's a bit more to this in that you should adapt it to get the full list of channels for a network, set a timer and then join them gradually. | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | I'm even curious whether/how many/where would try to engage anyway | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | also, set it on some VM, hopefully that's obvious. | [13:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the VM is obvious | [13:52] |
| whaack: | especially given my pura vida internet (although I would put it on a VM regardless) | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | given how many nicks are anyway ~bots ie just linger there, I can't possibly see what would be a reasonable objection to the bot logging but then again, I don't expect much reasonable. | [13:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Do you have an objection to me sticking with digitalocean for this? | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, no objection; do you understand the goal of this? | [14:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: my understanding is it is to look for individuals doing anything productive. | [14:12] |
| whaack: | or maybe it could be phrased 'to look for rooms containing individuals doing something productive' | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, there's very little chance/expectation of that and moreover that makes for a rather poor goal in itself because it fails to ensure you get something out of the activity itself no matter what the outcome (which is not predictable/under your control); | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen, the effort will be spent anyway, regardless of whether there are productive individuals anywhere to be found; therefore it should be structured upfront as what it is namely a systematic exploration of what is there; | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | it's not the idiotic "let us prove this theory" but the sane "let us explore and find out the state of the practice" | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | as a result, the *systematic* part is quite important | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | ie you want to make sure you cover (gradually, sure) all networks and all chans in a network + for a reasonably long time, if at all possible | [14:19] |
| diana_coman: | collect all data and store it properly (so you know what is from where and when) & then proceed to analyse it and see what's there. | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | open-ended question really. | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does the above make full sense? | [14:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [14:20] |
| whaack: | I see how my stated goal was closer to ~ "let us prove this theory" | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | if you need to/think it's useful, you can even launch a fleet of bots so they join different channels with different names or whatever, that part is entirely up to you. | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | what I want out of this is a systematic exploration of the irc space; proper data and then we see from there. | [14:22] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [14:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Understood. Having bots with different names seems like a necessary step since the search will be exhaustive, and network admins may kick a nick they see in every channel. In the same vain it'd be better to have a collection of different ip addrs that the bots were connecting from. Having a list of ips seems more difficult/expensive. | [14:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hmmm, not sure why exactly would they be bothered by a nick that is in every channel really? ie it's not spamming or anything so..? | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, the trouble is more that if there is such nonsense, it will not be neatly defined like that "in every channel" but some inane "oh, I saw this too many times" or something; perhaps it helps to set it up on some znc so it doesn't flicker much but other than that I'm not sure there's a lot you can do against nonsense as such. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | I'd say give it first a go without bothering much about this and we find out at least if it is a problem in the first place. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | if it turns out that there IS this problem, we can *then* decide what to do about it (there are plenty of solutions really). | [15:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, I won't try to preemptively address these types of problems. I am not sure what you mean about 'setting up on some znc so it doesn't flicker.' Since my logbot fleet will run on a VM (and with something somewhere else checking to make sure the process is running / restarting it if it goes dead), I wouldn't understand the point of having the logbot fleet also connected via a bouncer. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | ah, the checker should be enough, yes. | [15:34] |
#ossasepia Logs for 14 Dec 2019
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: php code showing on your blog where the comments list should be – maybe excess space in the <?php | [01:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Will take a quick look | [01:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my re-reading article ~5h, setup jfw's keksum ~35min, pressed the vpatches on trinque's page ~1hr (this had a few bumps along the way. for ex: some of the vpatches used keccak for the hashes in the vdiff and others sha512sum. i was using a slightly modified v.pl v99993 which i needed to find out how to further tweak to deal with keksum only having one space between the hash and the filename in t | [01:00] |
| whaack: | he output.) I got trinque's logbot (different than ircbot) running with a local postgres db ~2h. — All the time estimates are fairly rough. I do not have a draft of an article for setting up logbot as per my original plan, instead I have just a few hand written notes. There was some spinning today, but not an extensive amount. I spent ~1h chopping vegetables into zip lock bags to save time cooking for the next few days. I also had | [01:00] |
| whaack: | a neighbor over for ~45mins in the evening. | [01:00] |
| BingoBoingo_: | jfw: ty, comments restored | [01:04] |
| BingoBoingo_: | space snuck its way in the tags | [01:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012977 – worth trying really; esp the full remote since it would give you both your time back and way more flexibility on all directions really. | [05:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 21:10:53 lobbes: diana_coman: to switch to full remote would require switching to another employer, the Hong Kong jobs could be done via current employer | [05:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1012981 – hm, that article doesn't go very far esp for the 5 hours that do not include the reading, re-reading and general prep for it; why so dry and tortured anyway? | [05:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 01:00:57 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my re-reading article ~5h, setup jfw's keksum ~35min, pressed the vpatches on trinque's page ~1hr (this had a few bumps along the way. for ex: some of the vpatches used keccak for the hashes in the vdiff and others sha512sum. i was using a slightly modified v.pl v99993 which i needed to find out how to further tweak to deal with keksum only having one space between the hash and the filename in t | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1012982 – ugh; next will be those "froze your food to save time"? I'm not even sure it does, if all the cleaning etc are added up but at any rate, it's "saved" at the cost of shittier food, inevitably; if you want to save time, learn to cook properly ie meals that 1. take only a quick setup and then will cook fine while you do something else 2. are part of a process so for the price … | [05:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 01:00:57 whaack: he output.) I got trinque's logbot (different than ircbot) running with a local postgres db ~2h. — All the time estimates are fairly rough. I do not have a draft of an article for setting up logbot as per my original plan, instead I have just a few hand written notes. There was some spinning today, but not an extensive amount. I spent ~1h chopping vegetables into zip lock bags to save time cooking for the next few days. I also had | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | … of the slightly longer prep on day 1 + quick and painless adjustment on subsequent days you are set for the whole week. | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | cooking courses wasn't something I had at all in mind for this school here, lmao. | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012900 – did I miss this somehow? | [05:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 15:56:14 dorion_road: diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [05:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I believe the article came out poorly because I took it in the wrong direction at the start. At multiple points I considered tossing it and trying to write something new, but I didn't want to have yet another article that consumed my whole week. | [09:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it seems like you really fret too much over "is this the wrong direction"; if it's a direction you want to explore, then write it out and explore it, what. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | and don't "toss it" – publish it + write something new. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it can very well be that you did the equivalent of writing yourself in a corner, so what. | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyways, quite enough of this already as it's not getting that much better as it is, is it? | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | so from Monday you'll write and publish one article every day; set aside half hour to plan it the day before, 1-1.5hours in the morning to write it, perhaps another 15 minutes somewhere to do a review and that's it. | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | I suggest you do plan in advance at least as general topics so you have some roadmap but up to you otherwise. | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | and happy birthday whaack ! | [09:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think my writing ability is improving, but maybe not and at a snails pace anyways. The timed articles every morning seems like a good strategy, I will put it in for next week. | [09:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thank you! | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | it probably IS improving but snail's pace indeed. | [09:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The short daily articles seem fun, I'm looking forward to writing them. | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | good then. | [09:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am working on my review for the week right now. Following this http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012246 I am writing my review in the following format (1) I am putting each day's plan next to the corresponding EOD report, and I am writing a footnote that contains [http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012249][an analysis of why the report was what it was and how to improve in the futur | [10:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 09:47:05 diana_coman: whaack: at some point you'll have to review those plans too overall, in one of the weekly reviews, it's not *all* just "how I changed". | [10:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 09:55:02 whaack: diana_coman: Yes. Simplfying: the report is the 'what' and the review is the 'why.' The review needs to include an analysis of why the report was what it was and how to improve in the future. | [10:01] |
| whaack: | e.] | [10:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Does that work or would you rather I write my review differently? | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, the point is the review not the plan so doesn't it make more sense the other way around ie you are writing the analysis while the eod+plan are the supporting info hence in there only as needed and in principle out of the way (so in footnotes or just linked or cited as/when needed) | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | the way you describe it, it sounds like the point is plan+eod with the actual analysis tucked away out of sight or something. | [10:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: You're right the analysis is the meat of the article so it should not in footnotes. | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | yes; and moreover, the plan+eod are already written/available so it's not a copy/paste job to do there; write it as a proper analysis & review, not a collage of plan&eod. | [10:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well it's done for the convenience of having the plan/eod in one spot next to each other. But I will this 'the plan&eod collage' as just a footnote to my otherwise 'proper analysis & review' | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | sure, that's fine. | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I went through your keksum proggy and it's been quite a pleasure really; a few nitpicks on top of those: 1. why default/fallthrough on "bad option" instead of the more useful help option? 2. you have nicely everywhere except in usage_err in main.c where it's s 3. just out of curiosity really since … | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | … otherwise it's of course not a problem at all: since you unrolled various bits basically + made the table for rho, how/why did you choose where to stop with the unrolling anyway? and why not use the constants for iota instead of calc each time (ie lfsr)? 4. why oh why only self-gen test? not like there weren't values and/or ways to obtain them, lolz! | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, once you regrind perhaps to fix the test at least, I'll gladly sign and mirror it. | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ahem. | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I want to talk to you this evening. | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl. | [10:51] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman okay, thanks. 7pm UTC as normal ? | [11:02] |
| jfw: | hits publish on 1849-word, 141-photo article finishing the Uruguay photolog. | [12:24] |
| jfw: | With due note that I didn't get anything out yesterday. | [12:24] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: thanks for that window, fire away on yours as you like. | [12:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-09 23:01:44 BingoBoingo: jfw: I'll also give you a healthy window to get your photoblog out first. | [12:27] |
| jfw: | my net connection did return yesterday ftr. | [12:33] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013020 – thanks diana_coman! | [12:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 10:25:32 diana_coman: jfw: I went through your keksum proggy and it's been quite a pleasure really; a few nitpicks on top of those: 1. why default/fallthrough on "bad option" instead of the more useful help option? 2. you have nicely everywhere except in usage_err in main.c where it's s 3. just out of curiosity really since … | [12:45] |
| jfw: | 1. usage_err does show the help, but returns a failure status whereas explicit help returns success. | [12:48] |
| jfw: | 2. mixed spaces and tab too, good catch! | [12:49] |
| jfw: | 3. iirc I unrolled where it would allow precomputing arithmetic and especially mod-5 ops in inner loops. Iota does relatively little work, just touching one lane per round, so I preferred to keep it in 'source' form rather than magic numbers which you'd then have to verify against someone else's. | [12:54] |
| jfw: | The table in rho I cribbed straight from the pdf. | [12:55] |
| jfw: | 4. just to clarify, I did use the provided tests for the permutation, but don't recall seeing any for the sponge, perhaps I should look harder. | [12:57] |
| jfw: | "It seems you forgot to update the expected test hash in test-sponge.sh so now the test will fail." – yep, that's what I meant in http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012925 | [12:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 17:32:13 jfw: gah, one test broken anyway by the default capacity change, but otherwise working for me, let me check on those errors. | [12:58] |
| jfw: | "why the -Woverlength-strings in main.c, isn't that included in -pedantic" – the way the pragma works is to *disable* that warning as it's tripped by the help text. The 'wat' expands to roughly: 'why does c89 allow compilers to limit strings to something as low as 509 characters? wtf am I supposed to do about this? I have no intention of supporting such broken compilers, next they'll be limiting | [13:05] |
| jfw: | source file length too.' | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: 7pm works best, yes. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahhh, for some reason I was under the impression that -pedantic enables it, not disables it; but yes, it's at any rate a total wtf; the comment re "wat" is that it's…cryptic for a comment, you know? | [13:27] |
| diana_coman: | more like "notes to self" than comment; there's a bit of that at times in other places too, a sort of "if you know this already, here's a reminder to think of it" rather than "in short it's this and otherwise here's ref (if applicable"; but anyways, it'll probably get better as you publish code rather than just use it yourself alone. | [13:29] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: -pedantic does enable it among others, hence then disabling the specific one as a sort of false positive. | [13:42] |
| jfw: | makes sense on comments vs notes to self. Writing code for the human reader first and only incidentally to be executed by machine. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: uhm, wait; you have in there -Woverlength-strings – isn't that the enable? ie the disable is -Wno-overlength-strings isn't it? | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | ah, diagnostic ignored, gah. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | nm, now I see. | [13:50] |
| jfw: | The thinking behind the #pragma is to make it a harder suppression at least for that file, so you can tweak compiler options as desired without this non-problem resurfacing. | [13:54] |
| jfw: | In "'static linking considered harmful' considered harmful" news from OpenBSD: "ld.so may fail to remove the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable for set-user-ID and set-group-ID executables in low memory conditions." | [14:28] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm standing by. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: http://younghands.club/2019/12/14/rmd-plan-dec-14th-20th-2019/?b=best&e=anticipated#select – this is btw true; it also includes the unstated *faster* and that comes with its own set of + and -. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | I get it that you are fully-focused on tmsr-os and it's huge and overwhelming and you want the initial burst and to make it good and all that, fine' | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | but a. it still has to be sustainable b. it's still not the only thing that matters because it's not in isolation c. by the looks of it you are working more in "emergency" mode than by any sort of planning | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | and it's not even clear how good a use you are making of all those hours that I am ready to believe you are indeed pouring into it. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing saying 20/40 hours on tmsr os is not by itself all that much planning and for the other, does the output match all that? | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | there's also a limit to how much "more time" poured like that indiscrimately into one single task really does | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | all the above aside for a moment, there's also the glaring http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012900 | [15:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 15:56:14 dorion_road: diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: do you see the big trouble with the above? | [15:13] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yes. the weaker habits and emergency mode are exposed further by being in vermont mode. I don't come here often and when I do I try to learn about the roots of the bad habits. that's what got away from me this week and caused the missed deadlines. I'm not sure how much of that is avoidance of the immensity of tmsr os. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: there's one thing to miss a deadline; another thing to miss it *silently*; an alltogether different level of mess to postpone something by means of a proposed deadline and then miss *that* silently. | [15:16] |
| dorion_road: | right. and it's not the first time I've let that pass or you pointing it out. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: the holiday/home-mode is understandable and part of why I actually kept trying to hold you back from overplanning even more than usual; either you accept it as such and therefore stop the pretense that you'll do it ALL and NOW or otherwise something somewhere will give. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: for that matter, there were supposedly 4 hours gained out of dropping that spurious December plan; where did those go? | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and furthermore, weren't you supposed to *ask for help* instead of avoiding the immensity or whatever else? | [15:20] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman at this point the marginal gain of the holiday/home-mode has diminished substantially. | [15:21] |
| dorion_road: | combined with moving faster and less perfectionism this week, I'm excited to see how much I improve. | [15:22] |
| dorion_road: | and yes, asking for help is point #1. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013065 – it's the first time you did however the "sales man" on me -whether you realise it or not- and that's just about the surest way to shoot yourself in the head as far as I'm concerned. | [15:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:17:28 dorion_road: right. and it's not the first time I've let that pass or you pointing it out. | [15:23] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't realize it. | [15:24] |
| dorion_road: | can you please clarify how it's a "sales man" ? I said it in acknowledgement of the loop because I know I have to fix it. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013064 – that is what I mean there by a different level of mess. | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:16:39 diana_coman: dorion_road: there's one thing to miss a deadline; another thing to miss it *silently*; an alltogether different level of mess to postpone something by means of a proposed deadline and then miss *that* silently. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ah, not the ack line but this: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012900 | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 15:56:14 dorion_road: diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [15:26] |
| dorion_road: | oh, I see. huh. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | ie you said the right thing to get something out of it and went and did something entirely else. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | besides the fact that I find it in general despicable as such, realise that if you keep fucking up your own word like that, the result will be that your word will be worth in the negatives. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know if that is crystal clear enough so you fully get it; is it? | [15:29] |
| dorion_road: | I should've done what I said. I've moved my plan/review day a bit, and do like the idea of the friday review better. but I have to act it out. | [15:29] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yes, very much so. and apologise for evoking the disgust. the only thing I see I can do now is not do it anymore. | [15:30] |
| dorion_road: | i.e. deliver on my word. | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I should very much hope so; and to increase the chances of this: do you get above why & how it's not *just* a missed deadline? | [15:32] |
| dorion_road: | yes, it's also a discussion on saturday costing your time, my time and all the log readers that would be available for whatever other productive thing if my act was together. | [15:34] |
| dorion_road: | and more costs on top of that. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | and the simple fact that it's a double miss and one worse than the other: one is the deadline itself; the other is the additional promise there "this is handled in the review and you'll see it tomorrow" | [15:36] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: did you notice you missed that self-proposed deadline before it was pointed out? | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter note that you could have said there "on Sunday" or whatevers if you knew – and by the timings you should have – that you still had a lot of work to do to finish that AAC article that was due on Sat morning. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | that grates additionally precisely because it projects the pretense – will say that should be and that's enough, ain't it. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | I'm quite sure he noticed although he hates so much noticing this sort of things that he'll bury himself in work instead of dealing with it. | [15:39] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: fwiw I don't think you were *trying* to bait-and-switch anyone but ended up fooling yourself foremost – saying you'll do it as an attempt to build your enthusiasm perhaps? | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly. | [15:40] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman right. I'm going to have to reconcile this convo with the review and see what key points I missed. | [15:40] |
| dorion_road: | jfw I noticed last night and pointed it out as notes in both the review and the plan I publlished this morning. | [15:40] |
| jfw: | ah ok I'm behind there then. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I took jfw's question to mean *before* the deadline actually passed. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | when it's the time to notice anyway. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: now tell me, did I get anything incorrectly above? | [15:43] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I reckon you're correct. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: any questions/unclear parts ? | [15:45] |
| dorion_road: | deal with what has to be dealt with, ask for help, deliver on the word. | [15:46] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm going to give it a couple reads this weekend and will ask if anything's unclear. thank you. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: what do you consider that "ask for help" to mean in the context of the tmsr-os task immensity ? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw I don't think he set out on purpose for this, hence my whether you realise it or not – because he possibly didn't even realise the full extent of it; that's also why we can move forwards anyway. | [15:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:23:25 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013065 – it's the first time you did however the "sales man" on me -whether you realise it or not- and that's just about the surest way to shoot yourself in the head as far as I'm concerned. | [15:49] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman well, there's help with the various parts, from technical decisions to, as mp pointed out, understanding what an os even is. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and there's asking for help with http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013056 | [15:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:10:46 diana_coman: but a. it still has to be sustainable b. it's still not the only thing that matters because it's not in isolation c. by the looks of it you are working more in "emergency" mode than by any sort of planning | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: understand that you do NOT have to do it ALL NOW; not sure how to get this through to you better. | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | I big part of how I've asked for help so far is to write articles, expecting questions, feedback, etc. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | that is not asking, do you realise? | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | A big* | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | perhaps I didn't, holy shit. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: asking means exactly that: question *asked* of someone | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | yes, around here I tend to make allowances to some extent and help at times before the explicit ask – mainly because there's relatively little time; but if you don't ask a question, it's not asking. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | and not a question somewhere in the article either, ok? | [15:54] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman makes sense. and yes a question of someone directly. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | hmm, an example of the sorta-kinda-not-really asking for help in my own work, compared to more direct asking but still in article only | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: so back to your newest plan that you packed again with 3 AAC since yeah, that's right, only last week I was saying that two AAC for one week are quite enough | [15:58] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I chose 3 based on the estimated time, not total tasks. | [15:59] |
| dorion_road: | that's where I confused your advice, if I now understand you. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: at least there's one not on tmsr-os, there is that; thing is, I rather doubt the 4hours is a good estimate for the +ev | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: both the total duration and the number matter for this sort of thing | [16:01] |
| jfw: | 3h for "Review everything that's fallen by the wayside these past 2 months and write about how I prioritize." sounds pretty optimisitc too but maybe that's just me… | [16:02] |
| dorion_road: | I should probably double to +ev then. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | because changing context also costs and moreover it can even be more tiresome to give it all on 3 separate tasks than on a bigger single one; but at any rate, perhaps even more clear: look there than other than the usual weekly tasks (keeping up with logs and so on), basically ALL of the rest are AAC | [16:02] |
| dorion_road: | now that you've pointed it out as such, the emergency mode is underlined. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: the further nudge that I'll spell out now is to plan each and every week at least one non-tmsr-os item too; it's not even all that productive to lock yourself into such narrow focus, not even for the first month; and moreover, it's precisely this sort of too-focused-on-just-this that increases the pressure of "immense task" rather than putting it in perspective: it might be immense, sure, but it's still to be taken one … | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | … step at a time and it's still just one out of all the rest. | [16:05] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman will do. and thanks for really spelling it out. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: part of the faster is that as you might have noticed in the rather recent discussions in #t, there's all sort of questions for which you'd have had the link ready except overdue | [16:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:08:35 diana_coman: dorion_road: http://younghands.club/2019/12/14/rmd-plan-dec-14th-20th-2019/?b=best&e=anticipated#select – this is btw true; it also includes the unstated *faster* and that comes with its own set of + and -. | [16:09] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-14 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955315 << I shared a bit in #o a couple months back, and have some overdue articles to publish detailing, but the short is I worked 2 years for euro pacific bank, a start up at the time. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | it's not just a coincidence really. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | So focus on one big thing at a time, since changing context costs ('loading into head'), but not to an excess that it blocks out everything else – is that the balance to aim for, diana_coman? | [16:11] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman right you are, not a coincidence. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: so now, tmsr-os may be huge but it still is to be taken one step at a time, prioritizing (and re-evaluating priorities if needed) at every step; there is help to be had on all aspects, not only technical, but you just need to ask for it rather than try to deal with all of it on your own, it's not like there isn't enough work for you otherwise, seriously now. | [16:13] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'll focus on what's mine to do, do it well, and what's mine to ask, ask it well. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the exact number (whether just one) might be at times not entirely his decision because well, if it burns, it has to get done; but otherwise yes, that sounds towards the right direction. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and before the deadline too :P | [16:16] |
| dorion_road: | takes the point | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: funny that although it started with jfw almost getting daily chat in his plan, by the looks of it, it's you risking to end up with it formalised as such, do you realise? | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-25 16:12:23 diana_coman: is seriously considering making 15 minutes daily chat part of jfw's weekly plan otherwise | [16:18] |
| jfw: | indeed I don't think he has the "just one" option right now… and speaking of which, dorion_road you gonna have time to hang out next weekend if I make the drive over? Would certainly be good for us getting back in sync | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | I didn't realize, but I do now. | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | jfw yeah I'll make time, come on over. | [16:20] |
| jfw: | great. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you'll have to tell me how black-and-blue you find him, ok? lolz | [16:21] |
| jfw: | haha, and I'll try to add to that no more than strictly necessary. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I gather you'll have quite the log to process but do take heart from it too – it wouldn't be there if I didn't think you can make best use of it. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahaha, before-and-after photos/ | [16:26] |
| jfw: | on my own priorities, the first draft of working online wallet component was done by moved-deadline yesterday, perhaps I blog it tomorrow. (Open to naming suggestions for the proggy…) Now to dig back into the offline side. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, are you asking-but-not-asking? | [16:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: An early EOD report, since surfpals are coming over for birthday fiesta soon: I did my review/plan for the week and did 30 mins of Spanish studying. I had a 1h block of reading scheduled for today that I am not sure I will get to do because I plan to drink a bit tn. | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | ahaaha, jfw careful not to let that birthday payback leak in before it's due, there may be counterpunch to come :) | [16:31] |
| jfw: | …it would appear so. Currently it's a rather uninspired 'gbw-node' (as in Gales Bitcoin Wallet, node-like part). Suggestions anyone? | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman quite the log indeed. and thank you. heart taken. | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | jfw what would you call the offline part ? gbw-keys ? | [16:33] |
| jfw: | gbwallet perhaps | [16:34] |
| jfw: | previously was just wallet.scm | [16:34] |
| dorion_road: | jfw I don't know if so uninspired, you've put a lot into the Gales name. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw I don't see any problem/trouble with gales wallet although gbw doesn't exactly roll off the tongue or anything. | [16:36] |
| dorion_road: | could do gales-node, gales-wallet | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, go and enjoy the party, don't mix it with reading (unless you do party-loud-reading or something) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: have fun (and great presents!) | [16:37] |
| jfw: | gbnode not bad actually since the database is presently 1-2GB | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thank you :) | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: may I suggest also eoihgwouthnode? | [16:39] |
| jfw: | felices fiestas whaack | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | other combinations equally readable :D | [16:39] |
| jfw: | lol, though not equally typeable perhaps | [16:39] |
| jfw: | tab complete!! | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you want /aim to rename, you'd need to think a bit as to what are you after really | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-14#1012999 << Kk. I'm going to add this into my week 0 workplan then (to start researching) | [19:27] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 09:17:57 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012977 – worth trying really; esp the full remote since it would give you both your time back and way more flexibility on all directions really. | [19:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 21:10:53 lobbes: diana_coman: to switch to full remote would require switching to another employer, the Hong Kong jobs could be done via current employer | [19:27] |
#ossasepia Logs for 13 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds all right; try jfw's keksum, good idea + you should read that too anyway; bot investigation sounds ok so continue from there and do take notes so you have them at write-up time. | [03:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I can try and use keksum this weekend and then try to digest the source next week. Before reading jfw's implementation I assume I should read the keccak reference, which looks like a sizeable task by itself. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: oh huh, you don't quite know what Keccak is? | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | but yes, you will have to read and digest Keccak, ofc, otherwise uhm, what sense exactly can you possibly make of any implementation of it, whether it's jfw's or mine or anyone else's really. | [10:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, Keccak is a black box for me. "s/I assume I should/I need to." | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: look perhaps through the eucrypt series, as I think I go in some detail over the Keccak mechanics as such too; iirc jfw also links some tutorials from his article introducing the genesis of his keksum. | [11:07] |
| dorion_road: | enjoyed the lobbes / diana_coman conversation, congrats to both! | [13:19] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012741 << is this a mandatory on premise saltmine ? or do you have room there to negotiate a contractor basis wrapped in a corporation, say deleware llc, and deliver the excel jockey work and administer the corporation from abroad ? | [13:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 16:50:27 lobbes: I stayed in that line of work for about 6 years until I got my current gig as an "excel jocky" (which I've been doing for about 3 yrs) | [13:20] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012755 << how much have you looked into selling the house and renting ? that'd at least provide you more liquidity. | [13:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:04:09 lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill) | [13:22] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012811 << glad to hear it. do you have any questions/comments about | [13:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:56:12 lobbes: diana_coman: The tmsr os work interests me because I think it could help me improve my overall computer literacy. Plus I think the dorion/jfw combo has some chance of bringing in money (the republic is indeed lacking profit centers). I would like to help out in that aim in some capacity | [13:25] |
| dorion_road: | the business plan ? | [13:25] |
| jfw: | hi all, my net connection's been down about an hour for reasons unknown. Mobile tethering right now and unsure if that'll be up to the task of finishing this photo-heavy article. For now I think I'll focus on investigating the net problem. | [14:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: As much as I don't like the additional suspense, it is a joy seeing these come out in pieces. Prolongs the time I get to see where I live through other people's eyes and lenses | [14:22] |
| jfw: | whaack: I'm curious at least from an academic standpoint whether keksum will build on Mac. We'll see if it's true what I heard that they killed static linking even more than Drepper did. Simple Makefile change if so. | [14:23] |
| jfw: | io.c and main.c won't require Keccak knowledge so there's all sorts of parallel approaches here. | [14:24] |
| jfw: | I certainly found diana_coman's articles helpful to whet the appetite for the full reference; I linked the first in the series. | [14:24] |
| jfw: | Digesting Keccak was pretty fun too I thought, rubik's bit cubes and sponges and all. | [14:26] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: I doubt I can do justice to all the sights at least without spending another week on it but will try! | [14:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Well, kinda how these things work. Eventually you'll tire of the men on horse statues as you did when they were in front of you | [14:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Change of plans. My keyboard is going to arrive in Santa Cruz (the nearby town I always refer to) tomorrow, so it would be a waste of time for me to go today and only be able to pick up the bank card. I am going to move the trip to town to Tuesday. I'm going to use the extra time today to keep working on studying / setting up trinque's bot. | [14:42] |
| whaack: | jfw: I'm running OSX 10.9 and I have some problems in general with installing various items, since my 'brew' (the os's package manager) is broken. So whether or not I can get keksum setup probably says little as to whether your 'average' mac user will be able to. I will report my success/failure regardless. | [14:45] |
| jfw: | 'average mac user' doesn't even have compiler or bash these days; long as you have those (which can be got right from Apple) you should be fine. | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012881 – the unexpected blows to all plans; did you sort it out meanwhile? | [15:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 14:19:39 jfw: hi all, my net connection's been down about an hour for reasons unknown. Mobile tethering right now and unsure if that'll be up to the task of finishing this photo-heavy article. For now I think I'll focus on investigating the net problem. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012885 – glad to hear it! | [15:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 14:24:56 jfw: I certainly found diana_coman's articles helpful to whet the appetite for the full reference; I linked the first in the series. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012889 – at least that makes for a better reason to spend those 5-6 hours on town-visit, certainly | [15:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 14:42:03 whaack: diana_coman: Change of plans. My keyboard is going to arrive in Santa Cruz (the nearby town I always refer to) tomorrow, so it would be a waste of time for me to go today and only be able to pick up the bank card. I am going to move the trip to town to Tuesday. I'm going to use the extra time today to keep working on studying / setting up trinque's bot. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is that town so far away or is it that poorly connected or why does it take anyway the best part of a day ? | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: where are you with the plan & changes this week? | [15:36] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ok. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I determined the outage is not just me, cable provider reported ~200 endpoints down in the neighborhood and has people working on it but no ETA. I've been focusing on offline work (wallet dev) for now, no shortage of that heh. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, sounds even good for your wallet work which was highest priority anyway iirc. | [16:00] |
| jfw: | yep. Looks like I'm on track for deadline of online / node part today, minus the sendrawtransaction TRB patch. Had some technical debt to pay – schema and code refactoring, but through that and back to the top-level commands. | [16:04] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: ^ | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | not bad. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | The change I made based on MP's comments was to add address tags (many-to-many) so you can define arbitrary address sets and query them independently. Thus one node can serve many wallets or have decoy sets | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is a ~1hr drive each way. The roads are 1 lane though and so problems can add 30mins+ to this. The bank takes about 30min-1hr depending on the line. Then I go grocery shopping which takes about another 40min. I also run around picking up miscellaneous items on every trip which takes another 30mins-1hr. | [16:24] |
| whaack: | jfw: Upon running make I get http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=PZLN . I ran gcc –version and got http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=33tu I learned that some version of Xcode swept gcc away and replaced it with Clang. So do you know if it is possible to compile keksum with Clang? If not I will try to get gcc installed, but it looks like I will run into the same headache I had with gnat. | [17:19] |
| jfw: | whaack: yes they switched to llvm to stick it to RMS or something; lots of effort went into making it as gcc-compatible as possible donw to the CLI options. | [17:21] |
| jfw: | Your problem there looks like the static linking thing. | [17:21] |
| jfw: | ("ld: library not found for -lcrt0.o" for the log.) | [17:22] |
| whaack: | jfw: ok so then do you know a "Simple Makefile change" I should try? Sorry if this should be self evident. | [17:24] |
| jfw: | see where it says -static in the makefile? ;) | [17:24] |
| whaack: | ahaha yeah i changed that to -dynamic | [17:24] |
| jfw: | nah just remove it. | [17:25] |
| whaack: | cool, works | [17:25] |
| jfw: | nice, runs too? | [17:25] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes, wonderful. now I can finally have a modern V on this comp. | [17:26] |
| jfw: | oh and I should mention, I updated my keksum and yrc articles with new genesis for patch renaming and changing the capacity default, last night. | [17:27] |
| jfw: | might want to make sure you have the latest, in case you want to build on it. | [17:28] |
| jfw: | whaack: does your box also have python 2? if so you can run the tests via 'make check' | [17:29] |
| whaack: | jfw: I get various errors. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=yJdp | [17:30] |
| whaack: | (the first line is missing the first c character, copy paste error) | [17:31] |
| jfw: | gah, one test broken anyway by the default capacity change, but otherwise working for me, let me check on those errors. | [17:32] |
| jfw: | that TEST_STEPS should be defined in testvectors.h which is generated by the python script. Does it look sane? | [17:33] |
| whaack: | ah testvectors.h is completely empty. maybe the python script failed silently | [17:34] |
| jfw: | did you miss copying more 'make check' output before that 'c'? | [17:35] |
| jfw: | I don't see it running at all. | [17:35] |
| whaack: | jfw: No the c was the only missing thing from the output of 'make check' (the full output here: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ucSE ) | [17:38] |
| jfw: | try again after 'make clean' please | [17:39] |
| jfw: | that empty testvectors.h is preventing it from re-running so we don't see why it's run wrong | [17:40] |
| whaack: | jfw: I ran "python munge-testvecs.py testvectorszero.txt testvectorsnonzero.txt > testvectors.h" manually and then "make check" and got back http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pPCn | [17:41] |
| whaack: | jfw: Now I will make clean and try again. | [17:41] |
| jfw: | interesting, you get different hash than me for the 'smoke test'. Wonder if 'yes' and 'dd' work different on mac, lol | [17:44] |
| jfw: | meanwhile you could "./keksum *" and see if hashes match what's in the vpatch. | [17:45] |
| whaack: | jfw: I found my problem. I had to switch "python2" to "python" in the Makefile. Then make clean make check gave me the same error as above ^ http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Hc40 | [17:45] |
| jfw: | aha, always something dumb like that. python2.7 might work too, I thought major-version-only was supposed to 'always exist' but whatevs. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | plain 'python' will sometimes turn out to be python3 though, /me glares at Gentoo | [17:47] |
| whaack: | jfw: soon to be python4 no doubt | [17:47] |
| jfw: | not in my vtree :) | [17:48] |
| jfw: | any of those hashed sources pass a manual check against the vpatch at least to the first copule digits? | [17:54] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes one source file passed a full check (using grep) | [17:55] |
| whaack: | jfw: i've updated my v to use keccak and now i'm going to try to properly press trinque's bot source without getting dumped a bunch of errors for unmatched hashes | [17:56] |
| whaack: | to use keksum* | [17:56] |
| jfw: | hokay good, it's probably just that hacky pipeline to generate test data that comes out different on mac. Think I'll remove that in favor of one of the sources. | [17:56] |
| jfw: | thanks for the testing! | [17:57] |
| whaack: | jfw: thanks for the tool! | [17:57] |
| jfw: | glad it's of use. | [17:58] |
| jfw: | arguably there's a 'user error' of make on my part here too; if you create files by redirection, make won't know that the command failed because an empty file is created. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm a small detail I noticed about keksum. the output contains 1 space between the hash and the filename, whereas my shasum on my mac and sha512sum on ubuntu contains 2 spaces between them. Afaik there's nothing wrong with your choice, and i don't know why those other hash functions put 2 spaces instead of 1, but I have to tweak my v.pl a little more to make it be compatible with this. | [18:47] |
| jfw: | the reason those utils use 2 spaces is the second is a 'format' char that could be * for systems that distinguish text from binary. I threw that out because such systems = Windows and there's no such distinction worth making imho. Not sure what phf's "ksum" does here, that might be the precedent worth following if any. | [18:51] |
| whaack: | jfw: okay cool. | [18:55] |
| jfw: | "worth making" here I mean strictly in the sense of "a file is a series of octets and the system has no business 'helpfully' mangling newlines or whatever", obviously text vs. binary is important for human habitation. | [18:55] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012821 << btw I grok this point now in that there is a big difference between ~knowing~ what to do and actually doing it. ty for the context | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 18:04:56 diana_coman: lobbes: here, to help you re that rational point; note the apparently in there too. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012873 << ty for the congrats! | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:19:38 dorion_road: enjoyed the lobbes / diana_coman conversation, congrats to both! | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012874 << unfortunately no real room to negotiate; I'm just a wage slave for a large bank. Though they do have jobs elsewhere in the world (Hong Kong, for example), so there is a potential path there. | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:20:28 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012741 << is this a mandatory on premise saltmine ? or do you have room there to negotiate a contractor basis wrapped in a corporation, say deleware llc, and deliver the excel jockey work and administer the corporation from abroad ? | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | In addition, I know some other folks that I used to work with at my current job that were able to snag 100\% remote work doing similar things, so that is another path in the back of my mind. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012876 << this is definitely my ultimate goal (I certainly don't want to sit on this house forever). I figure I sharpen my mind a bit first while getting the house in a more sellable shape (I got to clear out from it the useless shit I've accumulated over the years, and do some minor repairs, etc.). If the Charlotte bubble doesn't pop in the meanwhile I ought to come out the other side with some | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:22:29 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012755 << how much have you looked into selling the house and renting ? that'd at least provide you more liquidity. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | quidity. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012878 << tbh you both have real-world experience in running a business, whereas I do not. So I'm mostly just following along and learning from both the two of you and others that have offered advice/perspective. | [19:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:25:28 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012811 << glad to hear it. do you have any questions/comments about | [19:16] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-12-11 mp_en_viaje: "soo… well done on the 50mn exit. now, why are you at walmart with a credit card, in the same outfit as the single mother over there with her govt-issued scrip ? you know the same social worker can cut your access that gives her the electronic meal ticket, yes ?" | [19:16] |
| lobbes: | As such, I have no real questions/comments as of yet (but will definitely chime in if I do) | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012908 – ugh, a sort of commute; I guess it's the price of living on the beach otherwise. | [19:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 16:24:02 whaack: diana_coman: It is a ~1hr drive each way. The roads are 1 lane though and so problems can add 30mins+ to this. The bank takes about 30min-1hr depending on the line. Then I go grocery shopping which takes about another 40min. I also run around picking up miscellaneous items on every trip which takes another 30mins-1hr. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | interesting stuff out of testing jfw's keksum on mac at any rate; fwiw I tested it on centos 6 and didn't have any trouble at all (tests were fine too). | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012961 – this or even the Hong Kong version would still be an improvement over current situation really. | [19:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 19:15:43 lobbes: In addition, I know some other folks that I used to work with at my current job that were able to snag 100\% remote work doing similar things, so that is another path in the back of my mind. | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what does it take to switch to remote work? | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: since you had some interest in labels | [19:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 18:16:08 diana_coman: well, the label is either a burden or a recognition, depending on where you actually are. | [19:33] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: to switch to full remote would require switching to another employer, the Hong Kong jobs could be done via current employer | [21:10] |
| lobbes: | as for what it would take beyond that, I'd need to do some further research | [21:11] |
#ossasepia Logs for 12 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4hr of saltmines and did a trip to town where I got a multimeter, a mosquito net, groceries for the week, and opened a local bank account (I have to return to town on Friday though to pick up the debit card, I will adjust my schedule tomorrow morning.) I did 1hr 45mins of Spanish study tonight as well. | [00:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for next week's plan, list separately all those things that end up eating your days; it's getting rather tedious to keep searching in there for something other than saltmines, running around and various others really. | [03:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any more spinning? | [08:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes a bit, but significantly less than the previous day i believe. | [08:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012261 <– My understanding now is that Mateiu is the 'narcissist' and he is butthurt about 'discovering hypocrisy' of his father. He imagines it hypocritical for his father to write he was awed by his friend's "despising social discipline" years ago while today reprimanding his son for the ~same behavior. But I am still unclear as to why 'narcissist' is in quotes. My | [12:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 12:50:21 diana_coman: as to the last sentence, think of who in there would "discover hypocrisy" and then be all butthurt about it. | [12:32] |
| whaack: | guess (influenced from tlp dabbling) is some would characterize the 'despising social discipline' behavior as narcissism, but narcissism is something deeper/different. | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: just pay more attention to word-changes, that's all; it's …surprising and in this context boring is better really; (you did once before too). | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, how is he a narcissist if he cares that much about… his father's opinion of him rather than, you know, about himself? | [13:30] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks, will pay more attention. | [13:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Let me see if I get this straight. The larger point is that those who act as though they don't care what others think are going to be angry when they see what they consider to be hypocrisy of their idols. Since despite their pretense they are actually trying to live to be [what they imagine / is a convenient interpretation of] the person their idols would like to have a beer with. Their 'discovering hypocrisy' is them | [13:49] |
| whaack: | realizing they are not living up to be that person. | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well yes, it's the telltale sign of the whole pretense. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | and the "inevitable", "who could have predicted" result of it, too. | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you have all the computer components now? | [15:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I am still waiting for the parts to ship. The delay is because the RAM needed to be ordered from pcgamingcr's supplier. Their rep gave me the excuse that the order from the supplier is taking extra time since I ordered around black friday. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | sucks; ok. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what exactly are you going to read though for 4 hours on this?? | [15:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was going to look for articles of people explaining their process of having put together a computer. And then I was going to figure out what I need to do to get my os (centos 6) installed with my hardware. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | tbh if it's worth spending 4 hours reading, then it's by the same logic worth spending another half hour summarizing and publishing it; but I have a rather hard time imagining what you get out of just-theory-reading, it's a practical skill after all. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | isn't that best done when you can already …do it though? I mean what, you look at them now and then by the time you finally get the parts you forgot anyway most of it? | [15:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes it makes sense to move that until the parts are in my possession. I can update my schedule and replace today's task with going over trinque's published sources. (Tomorrow's will be replaced with going to town again to pick up my debit card.) | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter in general, why so carefully-theoretic-only about all of it really; sure, theory is fine and useful but only if put to practice too. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes and moreover *standing up* trinque's bot too; read the code, annotate it, but ALSO stand it up after that, what | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | it's not some artefact to worship-but-not-touch, what. | [15:25] |
| whaack: | aha | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | so update those tasks and do something with that bot too; it'll make for more interesting review too, anyway. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay will do. | [15:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I am ready when you are | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: cool; do you have something more concrete/detailed in mind re http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012295 ? | [16:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 20:01:05 lobbes: diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | you've been around for a lot of time but most of it you've been so elusive that overall there's surprisingly little all that clear from you, you know? | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | hm, yeah I know what you mean on the surprisingly little | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | well, I think I'd benefit from some kind of structure, but I am not exactly clear on how much. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | heh, 3.5m wide and 5.95 recurring tall; that's not something to know exactly clear upfront, lolz. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: to start from somewhere though – what do you want from here? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | as overall result I mean. | [16:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I think I could benefit from a sort of sounding board; the issue I keep having is thinking I'm on the right track when I'm not | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | how/when do you find out you "are not" though? | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | when I communicate what I'm doing I suppose | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | and others with experience weigh in | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | perhaps I just need some plan that I stick to that keeps me from ceasing this communication like I tend to do | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | hm, that you were supposedly addressing (and that's how this here took a break iirc) simply by publishing/talking more though; it doesn't seem to have worked/been enough; so how about you leave off for a minute the focus on "what do I need" and tell me where you want to get too. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | to*. | [16:22] |
| lobbes: | okay. /me takes a second to think | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | take your time. | [16:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I think where I ultimately want to get to is a situation where I have greater ownership over my own life. Right now, I really don't. I've made some steps, but still, I am a slave to the saltmines, I have epsilon working capital, and I also cannot code really | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | that sounds more useful already. | [16:28] |
| lobbes: | tmsr has given me many tools with which to help me towards that, but I am still fumbling on how to use many of the tools effectually it seems | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: so how did this come about really? ~all the context I have on you is along the lines of "he's been stuck for years on the comfy path to boiled-frog, snapped out of it at close-to-last-moment, didn't have much support/advice/something to lean on to extricate self" | [16:31] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: that context summary is pretty accurate. I have snapped out of it, but now am in a state of "wut do next?" | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | re fumbling, it's quite possibly because of the actual depth of those tools – there's much more to them than it seems and if you have no idea, it's not quite working, yes; it reminds me of my rather-interesting-learning-to-ski moment but sadly it's Romanian only lol. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | tldr: I had no idea but went willingly with friends who promised to "teach me"; they taught me how to put the equipment on and then pretty much shoved me down the slope, lolz; at the end of the day, down a black slope too; I…survived. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, back to you lobbes, mind if I ask you a whole bunch of questions? | [16:36] |
| lobbes: | lol, now I wish I could read Romanian. Sounds like a good tale | [16:37] |
| lobbes: | (well I wished I could read it before, but you know what I mean) | [16:37] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: fire away | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what did you study for all-that-debt anyway? | [16:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I started in computer science, but switched after about a semester to business management. While I did (and do) have an interest in business, I wagered it was a quicker/easier path to many Inca-salary-pellets | [16:40] |
| lobbes: | It was, too. I exam-took my way through the whole thing | [16:40] |
| lobbes: | much like I did for public school before | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | well, that clarifies the "can't code" and possibly a whole lot of the "can't quite use those tools properly", you know? | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: absolutely. | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | I was just smart enough to be very stupid | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | so you piled some learning-debt on top of the money-debt, after which you went ahead and found someone to also eat up those inca-salary-pellets? | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | yes, that is correct. Which I let happen for about 8 years; did not save any money during this time (save for my ~1.7 btc) | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | shakes head. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: now I wonder just where are you exactly otherwise, hm. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | what did you learn from that business management? | [16:44] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: a lot of useless nonsense for the most part, though I enjoyed statistics and a few others | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what work did you do? | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | and what "few others"? be more precise please, it's quite hard to pin anything down as it is. | [16:46] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I also liked calculus, accounting, and my economics classes. There were so many mandatory pantsuit ones though ("environmental responsibility" etc) that I checked out a bit | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw you do seem to like very-neatly-and-clearly-defined-sorted-categorised-stuff, yes. | [16:48] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: for work, I started out doing ETL work, migrating business data into the backend of SAP ERP. It was a consulting firm | [16:48] |
| lobbes: | I cut my teeth on SQL at that job, but that's really the only language I was exposed to | [16:49] |
| lobbes: | I stayed in that line of work for about 6 years until I got my current gig as an "excel jocky" (which I've been doing for about 3 yrs) | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | does that pay better or why the switch? | [16:50] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: pay is better, yes (even though I'm doing much easier work; that's charlotte for you though) | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | tbh from my (very limited, granted) experience with "jobs", the more mind-numbing it is, the better paid, at least up to some ceiling ie within a certain context, yes. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: thing is, it still seems like it's eating the best part of your time&energy; how much time do you actually have left anyway? | [16:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: time left each week after saltmines? probably about 20-30 hours depending on errands and such | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | hm, they don't… show for real so far, something's weird there. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | 20-30 hours per week is quite a lot really so either it's not really that or you don't make very good use of them. | [16:56] |
| lobbes: | it may be a bit of both of those.. I also am noticing I have a poor grasp on the time I spend each day into each activity | [16:57] |
| lobbes: | and a poor recollection on what I spent in time in the past | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | well, usually that works well only if actually measured; if you rely solely on memory, it will always lie to you, there's no way around that. | [16:58] |
| lobbes: | it is true that I have not been measuring my time spent | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you had on your blog all sorts of plans, for escape and some re selling that house and so on; there's a. no follow up on those so – where are they? b. unclear if you made them because "gotta make a plan" / "wtf to do???" or because "I actually want to do this" | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | so at b: which of those is it? | [17:01] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill) | [17:04] |
| lobbes: | it seems I ought to resolve those things first before I make any jumps | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | hm; did you study in your home town? I gathered you did move a bit about the US but not exactly when/why/how far; mind going through that? (there's a point to it). | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | if anything though, understand that there isn't really every any "ready" for anything as in ticking a list of stuff off upfront and that list being also actually useful; it's just not how it works | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | ever* not every, ffs. | [17:08] |
| lobbes: | I started out in a small town in the Cod; went to a community college there for first two years of school. Then moved to the western half of the state to go to a 'state school' for last two years. | [17:10] |
| lobbes: | After graduation I couldn't find any work around the area, but I had a buddy out in northern Ohio who was able to get my foot in the door at that consulting firm doing the ETL work. | [17:10] |
| lobbes: | moved out there and stayed for 6 years; kinda hit the ceiling in that area and heard the salaries were higher in Charlotte NC, so I picked up and moved there | [17:11] |
| lobbes: | but each time I moved, I had something 'lined up' first | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you live any time outside the US? | [17:12] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: no not at all. I did visit the Dominican Republic for a week (got to see the 'real' bit because I was with Dominicans, so it was a good experience), but that is the only time I've even left the US | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | has brushed up on US map. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: of all the things going on around tmsr, what appeals to you the most anyway? and really appeals, not the "oh, it would be so NICE if I did this" | [17:18] |
| lobbes: | hm, I'ma think a second on this one too | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: add to the thinking: how would you define/quantify "I want" ? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | so there's at least some more to think of, lol; take your time. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: thank you btw for all that info; I can certainly see why/how you make an excellent guide to a place, seriously. | [17:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: what appeals most, I think that what keeps me coming back is the fact that I have never in my life been able to articulate/work through my own thoughts as well as I can after spending these years interacting with actual humans. I don't know of any other place on the planet that helps me do this to same magnitude | [17:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It is a pleasure. Lots of little nuggests piled up in the collection while evaluating how much of the place we just might be able to capture. | [17:29] |
| lobbes: | It is the process itself that appeals to me most, I think. There's this trilema I can't find right now that has that Newman quote "It is the education which gives a man a clear, conscious view of their own opinions and judgements… It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought to detect what is sophistical and to discard what is irrelevant." | [17:30] |
| lobbes: | My actual schooling did not do this for me, but tmsr does and has | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I think that's quite it – you pay a lot of attention to a lot of things, basically documentation at its best, or I don't even know how to better put it; I'd guess it has to do with the journalism side but since I'm not all that knowledgeable on that, I can't fully tell. | [17:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: quantifying wants: can you do that? Wants are always changing | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you are looking for john henry newman | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes, you can and no, fundamental ones do not change that easily really. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | but look above, you said you wanted to sell the house and to travel | [17:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:04:09 lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill) | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | I doubt you actually want it atm though; you'd certainly like to, yes; but not want to. | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | poor English even gives a clue there I suppose, in that a "want" is essentially a deficiency/lack/state of need, isn't it? | [17:37] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I see what you mean re: fundamental wants not changing easily | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I literally just looked up etymology of "want" and that is exactly what I saw "deficiency, insufficiency" | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, the way to quantify a want is simply by what you are *truly willing to lose/give up* in order to fulfil that "want"; it's always like that, defined by the negatives. | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | well, *you* are the native speaker, what. | [17:41] |
| lobbes: | ah that negative space again | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | all sorts of negatives but yes. | [17:41] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: do you know how much English I've learned from Trilema though? :P | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; no, I don't; how much? (and anyway, trilema's not mine :P ) | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I know not yours, but I mean, non-native speakers are always schooling me in English | [17:42] |
| jfw: | re 'want', I recall learning this heavier meaning only later, as in early school I was taught about 'wants vs. needs' with 'wants' being more the 'would like to haves' | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | poor US schooling, you know | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: eh, stop blaming others/the environment/the year/the phases of the moon, will you? you are not 15 anymore. | [17:43] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: you are right. I will cease that behavior | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, and how did you learn that heavier meaning anyway? | [17:43] |
| lobbes: | it is on me | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: out of the work/tasks/directions around here though, what interests you? I get it that conversation and general interaction with actual people is (naturally!) what you want and like most, sure; anything other though that speaks to your interest(s) more seriously? | [17:45] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not sure specifically, I had heard the usage perhaps in older sounding text, looked it up at some point | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, older sounding text; I can see what you mean; and gah, I'll feel 83 again. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | if speaking well makes you feel old, I can't help there :P | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahahah; and I thought you had some wrecked schedule to set back on track :P | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | (but no, it wasn't a request for help at all; simply a statement of a fact.) | [17:48] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I do, though keeping up was part of it. | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh; you're always welcome of course. | [17:52] |
| jfw: | :) | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did I lose you somewhere? | [17:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: nah I'm here. processing | [17:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: The tmsr os work interests me because I think it could help me improve my overall computer literacy. Plus I think the dorion/jfw combo has some chance of bringing in money (the republic is indeed lacking profit centers). I would like to help out in that aim in some capacity | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | so always-very-rational-apparently, you know? | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | plus, I am interested in continuing improving my current things (the auctionbot, mp-wp bot) | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: what do you mean? Isn't being rational a good thing? | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, I suppose dorion_road would be rather happy to hear there's one man more rather than less; and the project certainly has both a huge need for people and a lot of potential, yes. | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: heh, it's … not the only thing, it never can be, that's all. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what do you make in the end of the lordship and castle thing anyway? | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | (if you prefer re rational, there's always that "too much of a good thing".) | [18:02] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm, idk if I fully grok your rational point yet (but I will ponder it in parallel) | [18:03] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: lordship castle thing, can you expound a bit? | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: here, to help you re that rational point; note the apparently in there too. | [18:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 14:06:12 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Sep-2019#1002885 – because you were going at it on *one leg only*; in short, you knew what you needed to do but you didn't care to do it and both those things matter, you can't just cut one out and pretend that the other takes over both functions. | [18:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:57:02 diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know? | [18:04] |
| lobbes: | reading thread | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you went this year back and forth through "I'd rather give up lordship"/ "no, I wouldn't"; "I'm better off as a knight" / "ugh, I like being a lord"; "I have/will make a castle since I'm a lord"/"wouldn't quite ask for a deed for it, hmmm"; what do you reckon now exactly, regardless of labels? | [18:07] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ah now I gotcha. Yes, I was quite concerned about all that until MP underlined the turns concept for me and I re-read his article | [18:14] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-09-25 mircea_popescu: it'll benefit the nooblets immensely if they seriously spend some time groking the "turn" thing. there's a time for everything ; and for most things that time isn't NOW. | [18:14] |
| lobbes: | so now I'm just focusing on improving; not trying to care about labels | [18:14] |
| lobbes: | because the label is just a pointer to someone who does things anyway | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | well, the label is either a burden or a recognition, depending on where you actually are. | [18:16] |
| lobbes: | makes sense | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | has literally told a uni prof "your saying that I'm a professor now does NOT make me a professor!!" | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | he was shocked, lol. | [18:16] |
| lobbes: | lol, I bet | [18:17] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: brb need to answer a saltmine call | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: all right, ping when you're back. | [18:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, I'm back | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: wb; anyways, I think I got at least a better picture of you after all this, so here's to some clarity. | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: listen, there's also that old promised series – whatever happened to that? | [18:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 05:05:52 diana_coman: lobbes: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/the-next-phases-of-escape/?b=wasting&e=#select – fwiw, it's very aptly put but also very sinful; one of those things for which you'll really have to do penance if you haven't done it already. | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | 3 months, look at that. | [18:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: you got me on that one | [18:27] |
| lobbes: | ahem :P | [18:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I was trying to focus 100\% on getting the mpwpbot out, but now I have time so I'll make a plan to get that article written | [18:29] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: there's no such thing, no. | [18:29] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: listen, if you want on, I'm willing to try and help you; I gather you are fine with that pledge because you will need it, yes; and it will take some closer reporting & follow up by the looks of it. | [18:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, this is a point on the putting off the article. There really isn't such a thing as '100\% focus' on anything | [18:33] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I would be honored, and if you are willing to help then I am willing to learn (also willing to take pledge) | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, for starters the 100\% on ONE thing is more of a luxury rather than anything and a. it's not all that productive really b. rather rare in practice. | [18:35] |
| lobbes: | this is true | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: all right; then start by writing out your plan for next week on yh by this Sunday; feel free to write some review of your time in tmsr so far too, it will be rather instructive I'd think; for next week you certainly have at the very least 1. a penance article of those long-ago-promised 2. concrete plan re figuring out the ebuilds; with time & deadline too, please; and start actually measuring your time at least for starters, … | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | … to figure out what is going on for real as opposed to what seems to be going on. | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: moving forwards, it would seem to me that atm you are rather staying where you are; and as such, you should then at least give some thought to actually making the most of that; so I'd expect some of that to show in your plans – if not for next week, then for the week after. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too, | [18:39] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: any questions there? or anything else? | [18:40] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: understood, and I will do so. I'll probably spend time re-reading our convo and linked threads/etc. If I have further questions I will let you know | [18:41] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: and thank you again for this help, I do appreciate it | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: cool; and you're welcome. | [18:41] |
| jfw: | I think I'm hearing a decision there among the "I will if you will"s so congrats both & welcome aboard lobbes! | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, is it not clear? hm, lobbes, is there something unclear? | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | ty jfw! | [18:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: all clear on my end | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: cool then. | [18:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did ~2hrs of Spanish study, did an unexpected bit of saltmines (~30min), finished a rough draft of the rereading article ~4h, and got trinque's irc ping-pong bot connected ~4h. There was a chunk of time I burned trying to set up keccak on my local machine so that I could press the vpatches correctly. I got stuck on setting up gprbuild. I think I may try to use jfw's keksum, but if that doesn't work I don' | [23:36] |
| whaack: | t know it's worth figuring out what's wrong on my osx 10.9 as I should have my new computer anyways soon. Reading through trinque's code and playing around with it, I see there are a few topics I need to go over: CLOS, threading with CL and slime, and CL's exception handling tool/restarts. | [23:36] |
| whaack: | I believe I was more focused today. I had some time where I wasn't working though: an interruption for ~40 mins when a surfpal stopped by, and I played guitar for another ~20 mins at sunset. | [23:47] |
#ossasepia Logs for 11 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: and…why? | [03:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is painful to type the reason out. Essentially I let the worries of whether or not I will continue to see my lady from Sunday occupy my headspace. | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why worries to start with? ie want to see her, call her/go, wtf. | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | and good that it's painful because seriously, worrying about, gah. | [10:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't want to start filling the channel with the specifics of this, lol. but i'll say she ended her relationship with someone a few days prior to meeting and seems beat up about it. I find it best to give it some time before calling her and trying to go see her. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | if only stupidity was more painful while indulging in it than when admitting it after the fact. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you "find it best" then you don't "worry"; and no, I'd rather not fill the channel with any of this either but that starts with not wasting time "worrying". | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | every time you start worrying about anything, do me a favour and tell yourself you're being an idiot. | [10:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I knew immediately as I started worrying I was being an idiot. I did not have a good method to stop it. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the best method to stop it is to DO something and preferably something difficult enough to not leave much space for idles worries. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in fairness, an even better solution is to have something more serious to be worried about at least, if you must, there is that too. | [10:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. I did try to keep myself busy, with saltmines work, which i guess is not important/difficult enough to take away my distracting thoughts. | [10:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: One concern is i wouldn't want to do anything I find important while I am distracted. I guess I need to find something difficult that is not too important. Like some manual labor house repair. | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | the point is to do something where you can't *afford* to be distracted. | [10:33] |
| diana_coman: | but myeah, you always leave for yourself pleeeenty of slack because why not, all the time in the world and pura vida and all that. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | dunno, set yourself some idiocy tax : one satoshi per minute of "worry" and see for how long you can afford it, lolz. | [10:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol send an address | [10:39] |
| whaack: | one satoshi a minute though.. that allows for a lot of worrying | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, this sort of thing has to be punishment rather than tax. | [10:42] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009447 << did so when suggested. I've read this one before. did not rem the author then. Depressing and instructive come to mind abt the story. | [13:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 13:49:23 diana_coman: shrysr: possibly for you too ^ | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | how's it going, shrysr ? | [13:10] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012520 << I read the logs. buncha things going on atm. | [13:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 20:36:33 jfw: shrysr: you still tuned in here? How's that learning and search for new job going? You still on track to resurface after Christmas? | [13:10] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: hallo. lol. well.. its going on | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: mind giving an update as to where you are with the job hunt/change? or would you rather wait until after Christmas? | [13:16] |
| RubenSomsen: | whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe. | [13:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 10:22:55 whaack: RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there. | [13:21] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: I was gonna wait. but the short of it is that – got laid off with strong reccomendations fwiw, lmao. secured a remote DS project and did some ML :) .. just delivered it. Hopefully there is more from that. shifted to vancouver | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: so you vouch for something based, essentially, on "the majority agrees (for now) it's so" ? | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: oh hey, not bad at all; and why wait, anyway? | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: even "what I perceive as majority" really. | [13:25] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012405 <<These were very helpful. One thing that caught my attention was the idea of a new world order where the poor won't receive a free handout and will have to find a way to be useful to the rich. Is that an idea with a lot of support here? | [13:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 12:09:45 diana_coman: RubenSomsen: here, let me help you just a bit: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/ http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/ http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/ … | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: for sure; I suppose you might want to read the take on universal franchise + consensus too, speaking of "majority consensus" | [13:28] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: No UTXO is secure if the majority does not agree. Tomorrow the majority can decide you can no longer spend your coins. Unlikely of course, but this is part of Bitcoin, like it or not. | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: the point is: there's no "secure" based on "majority agrees"; fuck "majority" with a sharp stick. | [13:29] |
| RubenSomsen: | Your coins are only worth something if others value it. So the opinion of others matters. Bitcoin can be whatever you want it to be, but if nobody else agrees with you, your coins will not have value. | [13:30] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: From my experience 'the majority' that use segwit have their bitcoin client on auto-update to whatever the mods on /r/bitcoin or the owners of some github repo push out. From my experience if you probe a 'segwit user' with questions about segwit you'll quickly find they have absolutely no idea what segwit is about. | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: no, not generally like that; people are not just numbers, you know? ie my bitcoins are worth something if *those I care to trade with* value them; not if "others" in general value it, fuck them. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | I care exactly 0 if the general "other" values my bitcoin (or my looks for that matter or my anything). | [13:31] |
| RubenSomsen: | whaack: I agree with you that that is not a good thing. People should not follow blindly, they should make informed decisions. | [13:31] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012551 << are all nodes equal ? or do certain nodes owned by certain people carry more importance ? | [13:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:21:25 RubenSomsen: whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | the important divide there is really that – people are not just interchangeable, equal, the same, how you want to call it. | [13:32] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: you are free to value whatever you want, but the utility of a coin that nobody wants is lower. To many people, me included, utility matters. | [13:33] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012555 << diana_coman: yea. I guess it is what it is and was not unpleasant, and funny in hindsight – but turning out to be good so far. job hunt is obv on. I might have another gig shaping up. gotta see. | [13:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:24:23 diana_coman: shrysr: oh hey, not bad at all; and why wait, anyway? | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: note I did not say "nobody", that's your addition; do you see the difference ? | [13:34] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: I was merely drawing an extreme to make a point. Replace "nobody" by "a subset" and the argument still holds. | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: I don't know much about your background to put this in a way that speaks more easily to you but no, the argument does not hold like that, ever; there is no power in just numbers (hey, they are MANY and therefore IMPORTANT). | [13:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: The big lesson I took from the altcoin dramas 2012-present is that it takes folk that already have money to decide what gets value for their wanting it. | [13:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: Fellow who wrote this piece has since disappeared into the not tracked wastes it seems, but relevant http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ | [13:38] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: Perhaps you mean to say that many people can value something unimportant? I would agree with that. Over time these people will go broke and become unimportant themselves. | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: so how's Vancouver? | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: I mean to say that what many people and moreover what generic, undistinguishable (ie yes, unimportant) people hallucinate that they value does *not matter* really. | [13:41] |
| RubenSomsen: | OK, yes, I guess what I said sounded like something has value because many people value it. That would definitely be incorrect circular reasoning. | [13:43] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: yes but do you see the link with your earlier statement re vouching for segwit ? | [13:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:21:25 RubenSomsen: whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe. | [13:45] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: lmao again. its like a breath of actual air. Seeing a McDonalds after 1+ years had me grinning like an idiot for some inexplicable reason. Walking distance to a library.. mass fuckinnn transit! I drove down here from my retirement village in alberta. Through the freakin mountains in the winter… in a car i severely underestimated as it turned out.. that was both terrifying and beautiful. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012578 – money does flow a certain way, yes; but this doesn't mean that those people were really important to start with, they were just as inconsequential in the beginning really; think of it this way: if you give tomorrow a fortune to a pig, does that make the pig's values important all of a sudden, you reckon? | [13:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:40:45 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: Perhaps you mean to say that many people can value something unimportant? I would agree with that. Over time these people will go broke and become unimportant themselves. | [13:48] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: I'm not entirely sure what your view on segwit is. Do you want to hold non-segwit UTXOs only? Do you only want coins that don't have a history that involves a segwit output? Do you only follow a hard fork that does not contain segwit such as BCH? | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: in a nutshell, I fully ignore segwit. | [13:49] |
| RubenSomsen: | OK, so the first then I guess. You can't fully ignore it because coins you receive may have a history with segwit. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | and I can't say I see any downside to this either, only positives really. | [13:50] |
| RubenSomsen: | There are some downsides such as higher fees and less fungibility, but I take your point that non-segwit outputs are more widely recognized by both old and new nodes. | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: uhm, how do you reckon I can't ignore it? you know, I also ignore a WHOLE lot of other equally "majority use" stuff and with the same sort of happy benefits (eg https! javascript! windows!) | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: heh, so why not pics and blog about it? | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: but honestly, do yourself a favour and don't eat that pressed cardboard they sell as food at mcdonalds, ffs. | [13:53] |
| RubenSomsen: | You can of course ignore it, but what I meant is some of your coin history will be "tainted" by segwit, which is theoretically less secure if you think those are anyone-can-spend outputs. | [13:53] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: From my understanding to someone that ignores segwit that question translates to: would you be okay with receiving coins from an anyone-can-spend address? The coins should be safe in their new home, so why not? Maybe you will want more confirmations since anyone could replace the txn sent to you with a txn w/ a higher free for the miners. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: for one thing I don't tend to receive btc just from anyone so there is that double layer of ignoring (ie I ignore also people-on-segwit really, not just segwit, I suppose). | [13:54] |
| RubenSomsen: | whaack: Yes, I agree with that | [13:54] |
| RubenSomsen: | I'd say the fact that you can ignore segwit is even an integral part of it | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: how do you mean? | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | but at any rate: if something can be fully ignored -> it does *not* do anything so ….what exactly is there to even talk about? | [13:56] |
| RubenSomsen: | It's opt-in, nobody has to use it, nobody gets hurt by those who do use it. This is how segwit and non-segwit users can coexist. | [13:57] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: I doubt that part with "nobody gets hurt" really; they do, namely the naive and the noobs and so on; just like they have been doing with in all other scams etc; there's plenty history of this "nobody gets hurt" except… | [13:58] |
| diana_coman: | but it's true, it's not on my back as it were, sure. | [13:58] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: lmao exactly. the deceitful authors needed to create a scam while making sure they didn't poke the lions | [13:59] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well, people are free to make bad decisions. But personally I don't think segwit is a bad decision (assuming people did their homework and know what they're signing up for, blind faith is not good) | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | but no, the fact that it can't take over (that's what you are saying there with "can coexist") is not "part of segwit", no. | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: why not make yourself your own blog and write there why exactly you think segwit is a good decision, anyway? | [14:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | remembers Gavin proposing segwit as a "this is how the protocol works now, sigs will be cleaved off of all transactions" but very quickly that proposal was buried and replaced with the current thing where it only damages those opting in to it. | [14:01] |
| diana_coman: | if you followed the links in those articles you read around here, you might have noticed that there are plenty of *relevant* comments AND links to pretty much all the articles around; it's neither by chance this, nor something to discard, quite the opposite. | [14:01] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well I did do a video on the subject of consensus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk2MTzSkQ5E | [14:02] |
| RubenSomsen: | It would probably clarify a lot of my views and I'd be curious if there are any parts you strongly disagree with | [14:03] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: people around here can read and that's more than 10 times faster than watching videos so ..uhm, thank you but no; do you have a transcript? | [14:03] |
| diana_coman: | seriously now, writing is the superior format from ~all points of view. | [14:04] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: Sorry, no. I absorb information better by audio myself (2x speed of course), but I understand that IRC self selects for people who prefer reading. | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: would you mind terribly if I ask you how old you are? | [14:05] |
| RubenSomsen: | 34 | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, not even that big gap, I'm 38. | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: it's not really that irc self-selects, it's the other way around ie we are on irc because text is better. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | I get the absorb (if you mean with those readers that double/triple the speed) but you lose on interaction and linking with others. | [14:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | lives in a place where the accents mean I can lose up to 60\% of what the local derps are saying in the worst case (poor folk who rarely leave their barrio, self-study English speakers, etc). | [14:08] |
| RubenSomsen: | I think both formats are valuable. Anyway, the video is only 12 min if you go at 2x speed. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: both formats have *their uses*, sure, nobody denies that. | [14:08] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well this is anecdotal, but Bryan Bishop writes up all the Bitcoin conference talks, and I always find it interesting how between my friends and colleagues some people strongly prefer the video over the transcript or vice versa | [14:09] |
| asciilifeform: | bishop << lol, kanzure ?! confessed enemy agent | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: just for a tiny thing: say I want to reference one specific sentence (or even just a part of it!) from your audio there; how exactly do I reference it precisely? while with text, look here: http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/?b=absolutely&e=#select | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | so yes, it might be "only 24 minutes" but what I get for spending those 24 minutes that way is significantly less than what I get for spending 24 minutes reading a properly written text, that's the rub (and what you get out of it is similary less, too). | [14:11] |
| RubenSomsen: | I don't think people are wired in the same way. My recollection and memorization is much better from audio, and I can stay more focused. Others seem to be the opposite. | [14:13] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: eh, go easy on him, he's in the thick of it there. | [14:13] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: right, but prolly oughta link : | [14:13] |
| asciilifeform: | !q seen-anywhere kanzure | [14:13] |
| snsabot: | kanzure last seen in #trilema on 2018-06-16 18:41:55: oh, i don't believe in particle acceleration | [14:13] |
| RubenSomsen: | You guys know him? | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: brain is quite a malleable thing, much more than most imagine; ie habits can easily mean you are currently better with one form than with another but that doesn't mean it is to your advantage overall to keep with it, nor that you "can't the other because differently wired" . | [14:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: Kanzure hung around here a bit. You'll find many member of the "core" and other crowds have had encounters with the crowd here. | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, you can always simply have a software read the text to you, no? | [14:16] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well I do a lot of reading as well, but perhaps you are right that given equal time on both, reading is superior | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: ie why produce video if you need to *listen*, it doesn't quite follow anyway. | [14:16] |
| RubenSomsen: | Robotic text to speech doesn't keep my brain engaged. Primitive perhaps, but true. | [14:17] |
| asciilifeform: | RubenSomsen: fella was friend of an old meatspace friend of mine. was a kind of esr-style lottery winner, as teenager; developed severe delusions of grandeur 'oh hey lemme make a nanotech cad despite knowing 0' and just as the money ran dry, was offered job as a professional bamboozler / bitcoin disinfo artist, by the reich. and afaik is what he does to this day. | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | and you'd be surprised how many are known around here though possibly not quite in the way you expect, lol. | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | ah, it's the abstract part that is less practiced, I see. | [14:18] |
| RubenSomsen: | If I had to self-diagnose, I think school made me hate reading and the default reaction is that my brain starts to wander. I do well with skimming, but if I have to read sentence-by-sentence, I need to be really motivated and interested in the content first in order to stay focused. | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | you do realise though that what this "audio but NOT text to speech" means is precisely *not* differently wired. | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: what did the school do so horribly re reading? | [14:21] |
| RubenSomsen: | Nothing special, I was just a difficult kid who passively resented the fact that he had to learn stuff for which he did not understand the purpose. | [14:22] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: I was too tensed overall and abt driving down to stop to take in the sights. first 12 hr drive in winter. Prolly felt good to conquer it head on. I intend to see some of those places again tho. | [14:24] |
| diana_coman: | well, now as an adult it might be worth perhaps revisiting the various acquired habits and deciding to keep/not keep and develop if needed what works best rather than what you happened to end up with; just saying here, not like I stand to gain anything by it either way. | [14:26] |
| RubenSomsen: | Of course, I'm always looking to self-improve. | [14:27] |
| RubenSomsen: | Specific to this I'm doing meditation to better control/notice when my mind wanders. | [14:28] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: well, writing and reading more would possibly be more straightforward really, especially if you do it around people who actively and routinely give feedback, as it happens here. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: btw re school, what they did wrong from what you say is precisely that they let you get away with that "passively resented"; here something for ref: http://trilema.com/2014/pro-idiotas-which-obviously-means-people-who-have-ideas-ie-idiots/ | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: why not write anything on your blog about all those things that went on, anyway? even "hey, I'm in Vancouver, hoooray!" or something ("I'm alive" works too, lol) | [15:09] |
| jfw: | I emerge (beholding the wreckage of my schedule). Got 257 photos winnowed down to 187, of which 31 out so far. I should be able to push the remainder out faster with that prep done | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | hah, I was just admiring your photos (and how the bar overlaps some of them, too). | [16:39] |
| jfw: | From yesterday's revised deadlines I missed my genesis regrinds and only finished the rest by cutting into sleep. | [16:40] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the sidebar? could zoom or resize window I guess, the theme has it absolute-positioned sadly | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | poor sleep. | [16:41] |
| jfw: | any magic number I pick for photo size will get cut off at some window size afaik | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, right you are, I had it on some zoom, right. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | yes, you are right. | [16:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: You may want to do something to your footer to kill the "Powered by WordPress" link to heathens | [16:49] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: right you are, and I suppose a vpatch would be ideal but can just fix locally for now; I've been more or less doing your core vs. theme maintenance split | [16:54] |
#ossasepia Logs for 10 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I logged 11h of saltmines today. As of now I plan to get in a few extra hours of saltmines this week, and then use those hours to work fewer hours next week. | [00:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: on the bright side, good for looking ahead; on the murky side, if saltmines are indeed the single most important thing to you, then you are screwed already. | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: good to hear all went well; looking forward to the article too! | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: get yourself all the sources that trinque published and make a plan to chew through them; they are mainly lisp too and you wanted that so hopefully you won't take ages on it either. | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, welcome RubenSomsen | [06:21] |
| RubenSomsen: | Looks like my patience has proven fruitful, hello | [06:22] |
| diana_coman: | has it? how's that? | [06:22] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: ^ | [06:24] |
| RubenSomsen: | The rabbit hole I dove in has reacted to my presence | [06:24] |
| diana_coman: | lolz; do you take *me* for a rabbit hole? | [06:25] |
| RubenSomsen: | Trilema was the rabbit hole, and yes, in a sense you are part of it, I believe | [06:26] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: the point is that holes don't ever react, no; it's always and only people that might *act*; if you just wait until someone taps you on the shoulder, you might end up waiting for ever, you know? | [06:26] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I do this thing on occasion, inviting people to talk but I might be rather …rare in this. | [06:27] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: anyways; so what did those friends say that got you to have a look in the first place? | [06:28] |
| RubenSomsen: | They were cryptic, it was not entirely clear to me, which is perhaps why I got curious | [06:28] |
| diana_coman: | btw, TMSR is the thing I'm part of; it does/did start with Trilema but it's not quite ~same thing. | [06:29] |
| RubenSomsen: | They're Bitcoin developers, cypherpunks | [06:29] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: oh huh, where do those cypherpunks hang around those days anyway? | [06:29] |
| diana_coman: | (and do they run away if I go and say hi?) | [06:29] |
| RubenSomsen: | I suppose you can find them in #bitcoin-wizards | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | searches for some old photo where she had blue fingernails and all that. | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: are you a cypherpunk too? | [06:30] |
| RubenSomsen: | I try not to carry too many labels, but I suppose it fits | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | eh, labels are stuck by others, what are they to you otherwise. | [06:31] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well, they become part of your ego, and that leads to attachment | [06:32] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: what are you working on those days? do you publish anything somewhere I can have a look at? (if you don't mind me looking at it…) | [06:32] |
| diana_coman: | not by default, no; the way I see it, labels are simply …offered as potential clues; you have a look at them and may choose /decide if you care at all, anyway | [06:33] |
| RubenSomsen: | https://twitter.com/SomsenRuben/status/1145738783192600576 | [06:33] |
| diana_coman: | how would that even work if *all* labels were necessarily part of your ego, good god, it'd be all contradictions in there, lolz. | [06:33] |
| RubenSomsen: | and more recently this, I suppose: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017287.html | [06:33] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [06:34] |
| RubenSomsen: | I think the ego easily adopts labels. And I suppose that's fine, but it becomes really hard to let go when the label no longer serves you. | [06:35] |
| RubenSomsen: | It manifests in tribalism, and you become willing to forego logic for the sake of it. I guess that's the part that bothers me. | [06:36] |
| diana_coman: | that might fit you, if you say so, but it's not a universal nor a mandatory way-it-works. | [06:36] |
| diana_coman: | hm, RubenSomsen did you stumble on trilema.com on any of the several articles touching on identity and how it works? | [06:38] |
| RubenSomsen: | I did not, do you have any recommended reading? | [06:39] |
| RubenSomsen: | One thing I'm curious about, is there a history between trilema and the early days of Bitcoin? | [06:41] |
| diana_coman: | hm, where to start you from since it's not exactly a small topic; I'd say for basics and at least useful in more ways than one: personal sovereignty, the WoT, the V manual genesis | [06:42] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: ahahah | [06:42] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: mind giving me a brief summary as to what you made of trilema so far? | [06:43] |
| RubenSomsen: | Thank you, I will read those | [06:43] |
| diana_coman: | so that I get some idea where you are at. | [06:43] |
| RubenSomsen: | I have no idea. Perhaps developers who talk about more than just coding. It feels like its glory days are in the past, and I am left looking at the remains. This is mostly my imagination filling in many blanks, I am probably wrong. | [06:45] |
| diana_coman: | you are …how to put this, not even close enough to be …wrong, lolz. | [06:45] |
| diana_coman: | do you know this thing that being wrong about something means that you are talking at least close enough to the topic as it were. | [06:46] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: from those links you gave, I get the impression that you are very much in with the popular crowd, segwit and all that; correct? | [06:47] |
| diana_coman: | re timing, you know you can for starters perhaps look at the keys of people around and where were they created, might give some hint, lol. | [06:48] |
| RubenSomsen: | I would say that is fair to say, but I am generally very open to differing opinions. I would not say I came to those views because they were popular. | [06:48] |
| RubenSomsen: | And I am looking forward to being corrected on the origin of trilema. | [06:49] |
| diana_coman: | well, for as long as you are still able to actually evaluate and re-evaluate things as you find them out, everything is still open; it's just when you are done re-evaluating anything that there's nothing left really. | [06:50] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-08 mp_en_viaje: "no time to read" implicitly includes "i'm done re-evaluatin ganything" | [06:50] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: do you know what this chan here is for/about? | [06:51] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012374 – meant "when the keys were created", no idea what/how I messed that up. | [06:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 06:48:38 diana_coman: re timing, you know you can for starters perhaps look at the keys of people around and where were they created, might give some hint, lol. | [06:51] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: btw, you should register a key with deedbot if you want that there is at all any "you" around here. | [06:52] |
| diana_coman: | the WoT article I linked earlier should help explain "why" on this. | [06:52] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: re keys and exploring the wot, see wot.deedbot.org eg. this is me | [06:54] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, now I snowed you in with links and all that, I'll let you chew through them; I'll bbl. | [06:55] |
| RubenSomsen: | yes, I am chewing, thanks for the links and for the chat, diana | [06:58] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: yw | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: have you been organising this ? | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, "Prof. Ruben Somsen" too; this will be fun. | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: why not give the links above when I asked about you? | [09:32] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha | [09:54] |
| RubenSomsen: | I went through all your links, but I'm still puzzled. I see the WoT as a recurring theme, and this particular web seems to center around mircea_popescu | [09:55] |
| RubenSomsen: | that individual seems to be an early bitcoin trader who did quite well for themselves | [09:56] |
| RubenSomsen: | and your comment regarding segwit made me wonder whether there's some dissatisfaction with the direction that Bitcoin took | [09:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012331 << Ack. For Thursday and Friday I reduced reading The Odyssey to 1h from 2h, and I added 2h for both of those days of reading/drafting an article of annotations of trinque's irc bot. I also assigned my Sunday 4h slot to doing a final draft of said annotations article. | [10:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 04:05:56 diana_coman: whaack: get yourself all the sources that trinque published and make a plan to chew through them; they are mainly lisp too and you wanted that so hopefully you won't take ages on it either. | [10:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: It is less of a dissatisfaction with what the core and other devteams did, and more of a rejection. | [10:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | Bitcoin today works fine without segwit. It works very well on clients that don't use levelDB, etc | [10:20] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there. | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012391 – without any haha really, you should make your own website and own everything you did/do, yes; it's quite basic personhood at that. | [12:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 09:54:00 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012393 – ahaha, now this is quite something; a bit like saying "oh, that sun seems to be a little glowworm that got a lucky break. | [12:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 09:56:21 RubenSomsen: that individual seems to be an early bitcoin trader who did quite well for themselves | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: it's all there and here and in the logs – it just needs reading really; and maybe realising that "x years in bitcoin" might mean quite a different thing from what you thought it did. | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: here, let me help you just a bit: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/ http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/ http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/ … | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | … http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/ | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | if after all that you can't find the rest on your own steam, it's unlikely anyone can help really so I'll leave it at that. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: http://trilema.com/2015/curriculum-vitae/ | [12:37] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012333 << welcome. | [12:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 06:22:04 RubenSomsen: Looks like my patience has proven fruitful, hello | [12:51] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012391 << setting up a blog with mp-wp is a standard starting point, lobbes wrote a set-up guide and he links to a few others. the exercise will provide a useful intro to V. | [13:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 09:54:00 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha | [13:01] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012398 << works fine without the 'multisig' softfork likewise. | [13:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 10:20:59 BingoBoingo: Bitcoin today works fine without segwit. It works very well on clients that don't use levelDB, etc | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: can you add the younghands.club feed to feedbot in here? | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: look though at your plan as well as a whole and figure out what \% you are where. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | see if you're happy with it. | [15:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Do you mean for this week, or for all things planned since I started in younghands? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I mean for any week; look at \% of time you spend and on what sort of things. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | take this week's plan for instance. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah I see, I misunderstood the request to be what \% I have completed so far, not how am I allocating my time. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | so good you asked then, at least it got clarified. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why no pics! | [15:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: they're coming, they're coming! I'm expecting it'll take some time to sort through them though so I wanted to make sure the text wasn't taking a back seat from the start | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | well, next time I'll have a go then "why no text!!!" :D | [15:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | The nice thing about photoblogging is once the pictures are organized, they make nice signposts for the text. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | any tool suggestions for photo culling btw? I'm quite sure my current setup is sub-optimal. | [15:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: And do feel free to ask if you get your bronze men on horseback mixed up | [15:57] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: if in doubt I can always guess Artigas right? | [15:58] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012166 – I reckon this advice is valid for me too. | [15:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 12:27:14 diana_coman: whaack: it's certainly a reflection of the fact that you find it important, yes; and so indeed you should certainly write about it; note that this doesn't mean that every tiny detail is just as important ie you aim for truthful (if, inevitably, subjective since it's your own lens) not some "objectively complete" nonsense. | [15:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Right! Darktable doesn't suck too much for batch processing a folder full of images. Ristretto is good for flipping through a bunch of pictures and hitting the delete key as needed to get a folder ready for darktable. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it is, yes. | [15:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: With your camera I imagine you should be able to read names, but Artigas is a good default guess. | [16:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | Lavalleja another | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | re photo tools, I'm probably not the best person to advise; I used all sorts, gimp, ristretto, feh, imagemagick; I think it's more a matter of figuring out the process that works best for you and then fitting the tools into it. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | ie I can't spend too much time on photos or I'll throw all of them to the bin, so… | [16:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | The workflow where I dump the photos from the camera into a folder, prune the folder with ristretto, and batch export them to blog size with darktable came about with the pizarro dismantling. Probably not the best work flow, but it keeps me from having to devote much attentive time to the task. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: darktable is looking more advanced than anything I need now compared to existing imagemagick recipe, but good to know; on ristretto, I was an XFCE fan back in the late '00s but it's now sadly blocked by DBus ban | [16:07] |
| jfw: | either cleaning that from a current release or reviving an old release that didn't mandate DBus would make a strong candidate for tmsr-os desktop imo. | [16:08] |
| jfw: | I think I can stick with 'feh' for now and focus on the process as diana_coman says. | [16:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | The particular tools involved probably aren't important as the look, cull, resize (if needed), and order workflow | [16:10] |
| jfw: | I'll say – it's pretty neat to read BingoBoingo in his real voice now; my imagined one was pretty far off, as such things tend to be. Not Middle Western enough probably. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | hah; so… are you going to publish a recording too? | [16:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | Writing too much about the photos before you've got them ordered seems like a recipe for leaving a lot of text on the discard pile | [16:14] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: didn't get one I'm afraid. | [16:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Nice to hear. It's always interesting to encounter in the irlspace folks from the IRC. | [16:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay without spending the time to create categories and come up with specific percentages, I see a problem and the reason for your message about saltmines being the most important thing for me. The issue is that I have this big chunk of saltmines to start the week, and then i'm scattered throughout 'a little/(a lot of) writing here, a little reading there, a dash of home improvement.' I would like to have a long multid | [16:17] |
| whaack: | ay block of time allocated where I am working on a tmsr related project. How about for next week and going forward I adjust by doing (1) 16 hours of saltmines a week split on Monday and Tuesday (2) 2h timed-and-capped writing sessions (ideally I can squeeze these into my saltmines days, but otherwise on Wed/Thursday) (3) allocate the rest of the time (about ~28 hours) to a tmsr related project you assign me. For next week the proje | [16:17] |
| whaack: | ct that makes the most sense imo is building my computer and installing one of cuntoo/gales linux. | [16:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It also didn't occur to us that a photograph of the servers rolling down the rambla is something that we should have taken until the servers were done rolling. Will try to get one when asciilifeform's servers are moving. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: aha, servers rollin' for sure. | [16:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not a single person asked us what we were moving or why. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's also simply overall; also, reading is not work ffs, it's meant to be enjoyable; the way you plan the reading it's like a chore; is it that horrid for you or what? | [16:19] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: makes sense re photos as guideposts. | [16:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No reading is not horrid at all lol. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then why so planned and eating out of the time for work, I don't get it. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, I just realised that there are even some old voice recordings from old [fain.polimedia.us][fain] days, ha. | [16:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Because it is enjoyable but needs focus, I don't see it as something to do while tired before going to sleep. (Nothing wrong with reading before going to sleep, but I have to assume I didn't digest the text as well as I could have.) | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well yes, but what, after 8 hours of saltmines you are so tired that you can't read for 2 hours?? | [16:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Here's a sample from my blogging output that does the narrative/photo mix. You probably recognize a lotta these places now. http://bingology.net/2019/notes-from-the-second-meeting-with-counsel-or-what-i-have-come-to-expect-from-urugauyos-in-offices/ | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, 8 hours of saltmines by itself does not incapacitate me for reading. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re installation attempts, give Gales a spin at least; at any rate, if you want graphics though, you'll still need something else. | [16:31] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: is the fain link supposed to be alive? looks like 'domain parking' from here | [16:32] |
| jfw: | whaack: at your service for any questions on the Gales front. | [16:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman and jfw: Thanks. The only reason I need graphics afaik is for reading my own/others' blogs. If this is a 'self-perceived need' that i don't actually need, lmk. | [16:36] |
| jfw: | whaack, I do think you need at least one machine capable of that. ANd you were interested in Eulora client work too right? | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, no, sadly it's not alive anymore; I linked it for reference as to what it was, though probably I should have linked some trilema articles on it (eg http://trilema.com/2011/sa-desenam-cu-fain/); but the recordings are on blogs, there was some poem reading/translating, hm | [16:37] |
| whaack: | jfw: ah yes, that as well. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for reading blogs you wouldn't need graphics absolutely, no; that being said though, you DO need ONE station with graphics, lol | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | yes, for eulora if not for anything else. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | photo blogs?? | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: are you *reading* photos now? | [16:39] |
| jfw: | ahaha, no, indeed. But it'd be harder to make sense of the text in them. | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | yes, if no graphics then no pics, obv; if all the article is nonsense without seeing the pics, then shame on the author really :P | [16:40] |
| jfw: | true too and I had a feeling you'd say that. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | yes, well, what's "harder" going to do though? ie all sorts of reasons for "harder" otherwise anyway; but yes, pics should not be mandatory for making sense of text, really now. | [16:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: So I think I mentioned before, i have a lenovo laptop with a hello-world gentoo install. I could replace the gentoo with gales, and then use my new computer for an os with graphics. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | perhaps not as much "harder" as missing one part, ie less content than the author provided, which is indeed precisely what it is: cut something out and you'll have less than it was (that being said and pushing this to the absolute ideal, even pics ca have textual descriptions to convey precisely what they are there for but let's not get too carried away). | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | can* | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: makes sense; but maybe first build that computer and get it running. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | for the logs since I brought up fain, this is the end announcement, when it was auctioned but nobody wanted to take it on and keep it alive. | [16:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay that will come before installing anything on the lenovo. I still need to choose an os that has graphics between now and ~Monday. Cuntoo afaik would be the best choice in terms of having something working where I can also be of use testing. | [16:55] |
| jfw: | I stand corrected on "harder", and wouldn't disagree that the text should stand on its own. So, just missing out on some of the provided content. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean? cuntoo does not have the x stack, no. | [16:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah for some reason I thought it did. Well then nevermind. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no but it's based on gentoo so in principle if you can get it to bring in the whole x stack you'll end up with…gentoo, I suppose. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, jfw for your ro-practice, here's from fain days: http://ossasepia.com/2010/07/20/versuri-si-traduceri/ answering the request from http://trilema.com/2010/cateva-versuri/ (and in turn the PS + some comments answer mine, as it happens). | [17:00] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012198 – thanks whaack, small changes went a long way on the css, mostly one color pick and deleting some web designer silliness. The stylesheet should make an easy diff against the one from stock 'classic' theme | [17:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 13:50:36 whaack: jfw: have fun in Uruguay, btw I never mentioned – the css on your blog is lookin sharp indeed! it's a nice touch for the great content that's being produced (although I admit I haven't found much time to fully read your articles.) | [17:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Is starting by installing cuntoo and then setting myself up with x11 a worthy exercise? | [17:46] |
| whaack: | jfw: your welcome | [17:46] |
| whaack: | you're* | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | behind the scenes, people ask for the recordings so here are the 2 rather poor recordings – first 2 links as the rest (other people reading same text) meanwhile vanished, gah. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, it's a … workout, lolz; how much did you use gentoo so far? | [17:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i didn't use it at all. | [17:49] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012243 – muahaha, chips whose time has come had best fear my pliers. 120 VAC smoke testing is fun too though we didn't go for that here. | [17:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 09:01:39 diana_coman: heh, jfw finds out he likes destroying things too, not only making them? | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, in that case it's not all that clear if it's worth it really; tbh on my eulora-client-has-to-have-everything I ended up setting centos 6 because no idea wtf else is even remotely sufferable currently otherwise | [17:50] |
| jfw: | "Click si ascultati:" – this much I understand! | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | the first is a text with all words starting with f – you can read it too as it's the previous article there | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ | [17:51] |
| jfw: | haha nice. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: last time I had a gentoo all graphics and bells and whistles and all that, it was horribly stinky (though I didn't bother to try and clean it, it was going to be stinky and that was that) | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well then centos 6 sounds like the practical option. I can use my side laptop for masochistic exercises with experimental operating systems. | [18:00] |
| jfw: | whaack: manual X11 build even on dynamic-linked musl and as someone who knows what most of the necessary pieces are was a workout indeed; wouldn't recommend as beginner exercise. OTOH, a 'normal' gentoo (if there's even such a thing) could be good experience and can indeed run full graphics after the requisite driver futzing. But yeah, centos 6 probably easiest. | [18:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Centos6 is probably the safer option. Playing with Devuan "Jessie" it seemed fine, but who knows how long the mirrors supporting it will remain before it gets depreciated for the next "oldstable" release. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aha; note that centos 6 is a. last one without systemd b. set to vanish next March iirc ie get everything you need for it offline. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | and sure, plenty of masochistic exercises available, don't worry of any lack there. | [18:04] |
| jfw: | there is however http://vault.centos.org/ , they preserve better than many. | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | yeah; still better on own shelf :P | [18:06] |
| jfw: | aye, and iirc it's not all that big of a thing to mirror at least if you restrict architectures | [18:07] |
| whaack: | the council appears to be in agreement. Okay I will go with centos 6 and make backups of drivers and such. | [18:07] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012284 – I totally just got what 'shannonizing' means, long after having seen the term in logs and read partway through his paper. | [18:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 13:25:00 diana_coman: whaack: words are NOT chosen at random around those parts! if you want random-words, go to the shannonizing crowd. | [18:38] |
| jfw: | RubenSomsen: welcome. "this is by no means a replacement for running a full node" – heh, well at least you say it! | [19:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 06:33:39 RubenSomsen: and more recently this, I suppose: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017287.html | [19:29] |
| jfw: | I wonder though, why the interest in exploring the space of how "owning btc" could be made easier for leechers who don't actually care to own their node? | [19:33] |
| jfw: | "It is our hope that gaining a deeper understanding of Bitcoin will lead to a deeply motivated community." – nice; deeper understanding can certainly be had from hanging around here though "community" might be too squishy a term. | [19:45] |
| jfw: | shrysr: you still tuned in here? How's that learning and search for new job going? You still on track to resurface after Christmas? | [20:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Comment in you mod hopper | [23:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | *your | [23:10] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: ty, approved | [23:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report : Today was not that successful. I got 9.5 hours of saltmines done, but almost nothing else. | [23:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 09 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Nothing to add other than the progress on the re-reading article this morning. | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012295 – sure; does 7pm UTC work for you on some day of the week? | [09:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 20:01:05 lobbes: diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school. | [09:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012298 – ha! looking forward to jfw's article then! | [09:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 20:18:45 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Tourism with jfw today seems to have been a success. The lower bound for distance put on the feet while tourisming together is 10 miles/16 kilometers. He took lots of pictures. | [09:30] |
| dorion_road: | good morning/afternoon #o | [11:41] |
| dorion_road: | if someone is available to grant me !!up in #t, I'd appreciate it. | [11:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion_road: done | [11:48] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Dec-2019#1012301 << I could do Thursday at 8pm UTC if that works. I can also do Friday at 7pm UTC proper. Whichever works for you best I will carve out | [18:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-09 09:29:39 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012295 – sure; does 7pm UTC work for you on some day of the week? | [18:45] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: Thursday 8pm can work, yes; Friday is really not much of an option (ie it tends to not work, on most weeks) | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what hours are you on irc otherwise anyway? | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: roger that. Sounds like Thursday at 8pm then | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | well I have the saltmines mon-friday each week. So I'm usually able to irc weekends and weeknights | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | some days I can weasel a work-from-home day (going to do that Thursday) however | [18:48] |
| lobbes: | is on Eastern Standard Time btw | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | ah, meant to ask if it's utc-5 so yes, est; that seems to leave indeed only that sort of odd weekday evening or otherwise some weekend time, hm. | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, all right, we'll talk this Thursday at 8pm utc then. | [18:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: sounds good. ty again for the opportunity | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | yw | [18:55] |
| jfw: | Hello world! My cargo and person have made it home safe. | [20:35] |
| jfw: | The servers did attract some curiosity at customs, but no trouble once clarified they were my own, used, relevant to occupation, or whatever other checksums the agent was looking for. | [20:41] |
| jfw: | They appear undamaged on first inspection. Can't quite say the same for myself, with one blister on finger to complement BingoBoingo's metal cut. | [20:44] |
| jfw: | I know I've got logs/responses to catch up on; will tackle that tonight through tomorrow. | [20:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Good to hear. The finger's healing up nicely, the torn aluminum made a rather clean cut. | [21:13] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: Glad to hear that then. | [21:16] |
| dorion_road: | hey jfw good to hear! | [21:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: I'll also give you a healthy window to get your photoblog out first. | [23:01] |
#ossasepia Logs for 08 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Completed the TODO list: I did 2 hours of reading the Odyssey (I got through just over 60 pages in that time,) finished my article for my meetup with Adam, and wrote the review + plan for next week. | [00:02] |
| diana_coman: | heh, jfw finds out he likes destroying things too, not only making them? | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does that mean all the tasks for this week got done? | [09:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Not yet, but hopefully by noon today. The last task I have is a rough draft of the rereading article on trilema. | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at some point you'll have to review those plans too overall, in one of the weekly reviews, it's not *all* just "how I changed". | [09:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. I will go back to something closer to my original format for next week. I thought I was getting the review of the plans in with the EOD reports, but I could dive into more detail in the review about for example the accuracy of my projections on how long different tasks took. | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the EOD reports are fine and good but they are just that: reports; do you get the difference between report and review? | [09:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes. Simplfying: the report is the 'what' and the review is the 'why.' The review needs to include an analysis of why the report was what it was and how to improve in the future. | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | works as a very simplified version, yes. | [09:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For the re-reading article my understanding of the structure is that (1) MP mentions briefly the importance of re-reading and then (2) shows an example of something he picked up on upon rereading. My plan for my current article will be to focus on point (1). I am not sure I even fully understand what he picked up on from reading the Caragiale excerpt + hi | [12:36] |
| whaack: | s son Mateiu's excerpt. | [12:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: MP ends with the line, "Now go forth and wonder why "discovering hypocrisy" is such a big deal for "narcissists"." From the article I would have to say the reason why discovering hypocrisy is important for Mateiu is because he wants what daddy says in his letters (which are assumed to be ~ "dude, get your shit together, you suck. Look how I am a man and my life is completed because i did x, y, z.") to be hypocritical s | [12:41] |
| whaack: | o he can (a) pretend daddy loves him (b) excuse his own laziness for not doing x,y,z | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ I am quite unsure about my above statement. | [12:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://trilema.com/2017/re-reading-is-the-most-powerful-tool/?b=successive&e=#select + "in this vein" -> it's the whole process there, not just a pedestrian "example = here's what I found". | [12:45] |
| diana_coman: | ie at first (and even several subsequent) read(s) of Caragiale's description of meeting Eminescu, you might get all sorts, there's plenty just in that alone. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | arguably you could get some things from Mateiu's letter too (though I admit I can barely stand reading his whining but anyways). | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | at some point though and *only upon re-reading* as in layer upon layer of peelings of meaning and of making connections and of integrating and you-name-it-what-else, something alltogether new may come to light for you | [12:47] |
| diana_coman: | as in this case that sharp contrast between what Caragiale himself wanted in a friend vs what he obviously wanted in a son (some years later too!) | [12:48] |
| diana_coman: | as to the last sentence, think of who in there would "discover hypocrisy" and then be all butthurt about it. | [12:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, the selected bit you just linked was informative to me and *that* was what I want to focus on. I guess the problem is that I am not (yet) able to fully understand how what Caragiale wanted in a friend vs. what he wanted in a son comes to light after a few rereads. | [12:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's the contrast between those 2 and the consequences of it that comes to light. | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | ie that require re-reads because you can't possibly quite get it at first read since at first read you barely get what is said in just that text really eg you might perhaps piece together just what it was exactly this "what I want in a friend", if even that. | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | it takes several passes to make links and the more passes for the more far-reaching links really. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: re the "discover hypocrisy" point you make, I think I am looking at that from the wrong angle. My intuition was that the 'narcissist' _wants_ to discover hypocrisy: he combs through the writings of his betters searching for something hypocritical so he can say, 'alas, this guy is b.s.' and feel good about himself. | [12:56] |
| whaack: | ^ That is possibly just a projection of a personal problem I (used to) have. | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, is this meant to be the review of An Outpost of Progress? | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, it does sound a lot like a projection first of all; for one thing, note the "" in the text on both hypocrisy and narcissist; and for the other, read the damned text, not your own inner script unless you really want to avoid at all costs actually learning something. | [13:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. When I wrote the first article I saw it as being too much of a paraphrasing / rewriting An Outpost of Progress in my own words. I thought to take a message from what I read and write something based off that instead. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that's fine and nice but it's not a review :P | [13:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, I can write a review as well. You did suggest that I should write multiple articles on An Outpost of Progress when I said I felt I had to lot to say from reading it. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | it's always fine to write more / + something else, sure; it's NEVER fine to SILENTLY switch something for something else, wtf. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | what is this, the soviet shop, we'll give you what-we-have-no-matter-what-you-asked-for? and be happy too. | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, I doubt you said all you can get out of reading it. | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | and esp out of re-reading it :P | [13:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I read back my plans, and you are right the assignment was a "REVIEW of An Outpost of Progress" through the weeks I changed the wording to an "An Outpost of Progress article" | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | myeah. | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for that matter, it's not even the first time you do this stupid morphing to the more convenient – see the very first delivery vs the actual requirement and even stated (by you!) work that was supposed to be done. | [13:12] |
| whaack: | is taking a look | [13:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes from rereading the logs I remember now. I was supposed to research into the potential different branches of work within tmsr and instead I just listed what I already knew about. | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | yes. | [13:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: One problem is my mind treating words and wording of instructions as something interchangeable. "review of An Outpost of Progress" becoming "an article on An Outpost of Progress" completely changes the task. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: words are NOT chosen at random around those parts! if you want random-words, go to the shannonizing crowd. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | and for that matter, you should not choose words at random either; that would be piling even more idiocy on top of the stupidity, indeed. | [13:25] |
| whaack: | I know that words are not chose randomly here. My mind may just be swapping words around until it finds a 'path of least resitance' | [13:27] |
| whaack: | And I do my best to carefully choose every word I use. | [13:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I should note this morning I made plans to meet at 1pm with someone and I have a birthday party to attend to afterwards. As of now I am not on track to have the rough draft of my rereading article finished by then. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | not exactly a surprise by now, is it. | [14:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, I can't say it is much of a surprise. I ask for permission as the meeting is a date and not something I know that I can easily reschedule | [14:37] |
| whaack: | just experienced his first earthquake. all good. | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | all right, go to it. | [15:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Thank you. I apologize for having 'asked permission' just now. I know this is not actually asking permission. I thought it was acceptable to make plans for this afternoon since it is Sunday and at the start of the morning I was on schedule to complete a rough draft of my article. I do have a good start to the draft, although I would put some more time on it today if I didn't have these upcoming plans. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | myeah. | [15:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school. | [20:01] |
| lobbes: | I'm not sure how it'd be structured but I'm willing to submit. I just know that I'm still not quite a person yet, and am growing tired of these same bugaboos cropping up in my life at all turns. I know I'll need some help in avoiding them in the future | [20:01] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-04 mircea_popescu: it's this sorta thing that gets you bloody. | [20:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Tourism with jfw today seems to have been a success. The lower bound for distance put on the feet while tourisming together is 10 miles/16 kilometers. He took lots of pictures. | [20:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw's distance traveled on foot still greater as he consistently took the initiative to come to my address. | [20:20] |
#ossasepia Logs for 07 Dec 2019
| whaack: | Another side task that I have not forgotten is fixing the pingbacks appearing in my recent comments. I was tempted today to apply your fix without going through the V overhead, but I figured that was the wrong way to go about it. The problem I have is I have made a few edits to my mpwp without changing up my V tree. So if my understanding is correct there will be a problem with my manifest file when I try to apply the new patch. Wh | [00:02] |
| whaack: | at's more, I built my mp-wp folder with V locally and then scp'd it over to my server. If I update mp-wp locally and try to scp it over again, i'm going to lose the few edits I've made + my photos. There is a work around for these problems, but it will require an a bit of an investigation and that is why I have not yet applied the fix. | [00:02] |
| jfw: | and bags arrived safe and sound. | [03:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to hear it and enjoy your time there! | [04:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: applying code manually would not be a problem in itself (it's code and you are supposed to read & get it therefore be able to deploy it yourself!); the problem there though is from your changes: if they are useful fixes, why didn't you v-pack and publish them? | [04:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The change is a snippet of code that prevents the selection tool from mangling html tags. I wasn't sure if I should v-pack it because MP commented that the problem came from user error, not from anything wrong with the tool. I kept it running on my personal blog because I still believe it has some utility and I had already made the change anyways. | [09:31] |
| whaack: | s/ that the problem/that the problem it fixes/ | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | well, you are then quite stuck on either porting all vpatches to some local vtree branch or otherwise making all further changes manually | [09:35] |
| diana_coman: | useful pain on both options there. | [09:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i think the right way to go about addressing the problem is to create a vpatch, even if i only use it personally | [09:42] |
| whaack: | (I applied the pingbacks-in-recent-comments fix manually for now) | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note that if you go the route of own local v-branch, you'll need to keep regrinding all future vpatches; if that's worth it, sure. | [10:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah right, I forgot there is this (drawback?) to having a manifest file. (Without the manifest file I would only have to regrind for patches that made changes to files affected by my private vpatch) | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, it's not a drawback to having a manifest file, ugh. | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you know, by now you can probably append there a whole list of stuff that fell by the wayside. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | it's unclear to me how do you pick out of the list and/or whether you have any defined way to pick really. | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what that is, is the pain that signals to you that either you are doing something stupid or otherwise the rest of people around are doing something stupid. | [10:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok. | [10:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Dec-2019#1012213 << The balance I've hit is mp-wp patches touching the theme still need read and applied manually so I don't nuke the changes I made to the theme. Just have to make sure the theme folder has a name other than one included in the v-tree | [10:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-07 04:37:12 diana_coman: whaack: applying code manually would not be a problem in itself (it's code and you are supposed to read & get it therefore be able to deploy it yourself!); the problem there though is from your changes: if they are useful fixes, why didn't you v-pack and publish them? | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | in truth, themes should rather be branches on the mp-wp common trunk, the way I see it but this is again not entirely possible without friction atm and so the tension there + getting them mixed in, ugh. | [10:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right. Just the way mp-wp and its predecessor is organized, the themes contain moving parts that aren't entirely restricted to a theme's functions.php file | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, it's a mess for sure. | [10:33] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Dec-2019#1012211 << glad to hear you made it and met BingoBoingo. | [19:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-07 03:31:59 jfw: and bags arrived safe and sound. | [19:52] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Dec-2019#1012223 << ok, I will append the wayside tasks. | [19:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-07 10:12:00 diana_coman: dorion_road: you know, by now you can probably append there a whole list of stuff that fell by the wayside. | [19:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion_road: jfw contributed admirably to the day's disk destruction session. | [21:02] |
| dorion_road: | BingoBoingo hah, nice! sounds fun. pics to come ? | [21:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion_road: Pics to come | [21:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | It turns out NAND chips flake, sorta like slate when you break them up | [21:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | Since the two rusty spinners ended up having metallic platters, they are cooking in a mild acid bath after having been sanded. | [21:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Despite Samsung SSD's using pentalobe screws, a pentalobe screwdriver was found to be unecessary for shucking them to get the good stuff out of the aluminum shells. | [21:21] |
#ossasepia Logs for 06 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4.5 hours of saltmines, and ~6hrs of writing about meeting with Adam. Despite the time put in, I have a yet to complete a rough draft of our encounter. I figure now that I will need a minimum of 4hr+ extra time to write this article. Even that may be an underestimate. I assigned the final draft to my open 4h slot on Saturday. | [00:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012113 – ha! not a moment too soon to have sorted those out, is it; for beeping elucidation -> rtfm? | [03:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 17:51:34 whaack: huzzah two days after arriving and my UPS is paying dividends. I am connected via backup internet running on power from my ups. Looks like Costa Rica is having an extended rainy season. Now to figure out how to make it stop beeping… | [03:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012117 – you know, it depends on what you have running and for how long the UPS can keep it running, in principle; if you don't care, you are better off just turning everything off anyway for the night and there's no problem at all. | [03:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 18:15:19 whaack: asciilifeform: I may have to do that if I can't figure out how to turn it off completely. I don't need to be woken up at night to be told my power is out. | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012127 – now this should better end up as some chronicles of tico adventures since I can't quite figure out what else can take 10hours+. | [03:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 00:23:34 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4.5 hours of saltmines, and ~6hrs of writing about meeting with Adam. Despite the time put in, I have a yet to complete a rough draft of our encounter. I figure now that I will need a minimum of 4hr+ extra time to write this article. Even that may be an underestimate. I assigned the final draft to my open 4h slot on Saturday. | [03:43] |
| jfw: | Morning all. My holiday is set for Dec 19 – Jan 5, which is 5 days later than the previous cvasi-plan. | [08:45] |
| jfw: | I plan to use the extra December workdays to continue wallet work on a more reasonable schedule with more slack for reading and such. | [08:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds good; how's the work on the wallet going otherwise? | [08:56] |
| jfw: | Behind the optimistic schedule but going well otherwise, no major obstacles as yet. | [08:57] |
| jfw: | The online component is able to import address lists and scan the chain to import relevant transactions; this scan took ~13 hours for a test set of ~1k addresses scraped from some arbitrary blocks. | [08:59] |
| diana_coman: | not that bad. | [08:59] |
| jfw: | I did hit a major performance problem, which through the python profiler I soon tracked down to a simple missing db index. | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | indices can make quite a difference indeed; so according to the not-so-optimistic schedule, when do you plan to be done with the wallet? | [09:01] |
| jfw: | I don't have a ready answer. Would like to say by the 19th but… possibly still optimistic. | [09:02] |
| diana_coman: | I see, ok. | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you end up looking for a dehumidifier make sure you calculate the cost too, esp if you run it in a sieve-house that you end up trying to dehumidify the jungle or something. | [09:10] |
| diana_coman: | the cost of running it* | [09:11] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012128 << I have been now reading the manual on all products I've received, including the manual on a quite self-explanatory rice cooker. The APC came with a list of safety tips + installation diagram, but the 'manual' comes in a cd format which I don't have the means to play. I should have searched for an online manual, I will put that on the TODO list. | [11:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 03:40:18 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012113 – ha! not a moment too soon to have sorted those out, is it; for beeping elucidation -> rtfm? | [11:05] |
| whaack: | As for the dehumidifier, getting that device is towards the bottom of the todo list. First I need to seal the entryways, as you imply, and get a hygrometer. I have not had that many skin issues since arriving here, at least not like I did the first time I came to Tamarindo (I got an infection that mostly hits babies – impetigo – for 1.5 weeks on my right eyelid, quite awful.) That said I will find a good skin powder on my next trip | [11:18] |
| whaack: | to town. | [11:18] |
| whaack: | And my writing is not taking 10hr+ because it is an epic saga. It is taking that time because I flip flopped on how I want to structure it / what I want it to contain (do I write about what we talked about, do I write about what we did, do I do some mixture?) I will commit to something today and write with more pace. | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so it's your spinning taking 10hrs+, not the writing; make a decision and stick by it, what; if you can't decide, then you get to write ALL variants (and if that doesn't make you decide next time faster, it's at least some writing practice for all that spent time). | [11:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay yes it is spinning, and I thought to myself last night something similar to your instructions above: 'I should just write more and chisel it down at the end.' | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you over-think there anyway? | [11:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I guess what causes spinning is I over-think what the effect of the article will be depending on how I write it. | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | certainly; for starters: why are you concerned with the effect? | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | as if you could anyway figure out the effect upfront; how are you going exactly to know the effect it will have and on whom, pray tell? | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: as your latest plan was made only up to today, does this mean you are publishing the next plan today or are you keeping the weekends out of the plan or what? | [11:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well shouldn't I be concerned with the effect of every article I write? For this one specifically it is because it describing an interaction gives a window of sight into me and Adam personally, and I do care what others think of me + how I describe someone else I like. I agree though that it is laughable to think I could predict what the actual effect of the article will be. | [11:44] |
| whaack: | s/an interaction gives/an interaction that gives/ | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why exactly should you be concerned "with the effect"? it's anyway a quite impossible "concern" and yes, it will inevitably send you spinning precisely because it is…impossible to fix. | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | when you write something, you *should* be concerned with reflecting as truthfully as you can whatever it is you are writing about but that's where it stops really; the "effect" is entirely out of your control and it will always be so. | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | understand this: if you take the time to write something, it's because *that something* is worth writing about; that's it. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and for that matter, in general, stop trying to control other people's reactions, it's silly bordering on stupid really because there's no real benefit from it but it comes with a very real cost. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [11:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay ack re the above points. I will write the most truthful reflection I can and not burn time pondering the potential ways it will be received. And if anything the draw to spinning may be used as an indicator that what i'm writing is worth it. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's certainly a reflection of the fact that you find it important, yes; and so indeed you should certainly write about it; note that this doesn't mean that every tiny detail is just as important ie you aim for truthful (if, inevitably, subjective since it's your own lens) not some "objectively complete" nonsense. | [12:27] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012157 << it means I am publishing the my review and next plan today. saturday and sunday will be included in the plan. | [12:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 11:43:18 diana_coman: dorion_road: as your latest plan was made only up to today, does this mean you are publishing the next plan today or are you keeping the weekends out of the plan or what? | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: works. | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | will go to admire more closely how English attempts at winter failed yet again; will bbl. | [12:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Frequently when I am stuck on the structure of what I want to write, I have to push myself to write out the trocitos, the little pieces that are going through my head whether or not I am sure I want to include them in the finished piece. | [12:47] |
| whaack: | learned a new Spanish word. | [12:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Once I've settled on a structure most of these may need to be rewritten, and many of them won't make the final cut. Especially on Qntra… | [12:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | What writing them out before I have the final structure does is it gives me the simpler task of re-writing when I put together the final piece instead of writing out the whole piece from nothing. | [12:49] |
| whaack: | I do have a small junkyard of trocitos from yesterday. I didn't just stare at the screen the whole time. I think the problem is that I could have made a larger collection of trocitos to choose from. | [12:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, part of the challenge is putting together the process and making the electrically conductive chunk of flesh in the headcase adapt to the process. | [12:50] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I didn't fully grok that last point. Are you saying that I need to put together a _writing_ process and then find a way to make myself follow that writing process? | [12:52] |
| dorion_road: | BingoBoingo an !!up in #t would be appreciated. | [12:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Not necessarily, but that's a point. As you get experience writing, you'll stumble into habits that may be brought together into a process that works for you in terms of leveraging your time well. Your brain may actively resist your intentions to bring the productive habits together into a solid workflow. | [12:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | When you find something that helps your output in volume/quality or simplifies your workflow, you may have to force yourself to repeat the process a few times or it won't stick. | [12:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or you may find parts of the process you stumbled into have other costs somewhere in either quality of output or volume of output. | [12:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | Some thing that need to be written will demand a different process than others. With the basement evacuation narrative I did the first draft with events as they happened, in order, and simply revised the thing for typos and clarity. | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | With Yesterday's VPN bug writeup I instead had to read the initial report, load up what the thing was describing, and hammer that down into a summary of what I understood of the thing and its background. | [13:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Sorry for the delayed response, I received a phone call from an old friend. I know / am learning that there are a few categories of writing topics and each of them require their own set of procedures. Is there a reason for the brain's active resistance of productive writing habits? Are there specific actions that you need to take to fight the resistance? | [13:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | I don't know any reason the brain resists other than it seems to be biased towards the familiar. Despite active recognition the familiar doesn't work as well as it should, on a deep level the brain seems to want to enforce the familiar. the reason may be something like "No lions or lizards have ate me yet, If I stick to these habits the lions and lizards will continue to not eat me" | [13:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | As far as overcoming the resistance, what works best for me is actively making myself do the thing I want to see become a habit for at least a couple weeks. After the third week or so I may still need the occasional reminder, but the mushy stuff up in the skull will lose its resistance to the new habit. | [13:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | Because despite doing the thing outside the routine, no lions nor lizards ate. | [13:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | After a few times the primitive alarm sorta resistance in the brain will be muted, but… killing it takes more time. | [13:33] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Okay so that sounds like the normal bad-habits-die-hard bug that applies to almost everything one does, not something specific to writing. | [13:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I'm more along the lines of "new habits scare the brain" | [13:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | And it may not be very specific to writing at all. | [13:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | In this case it isn't so much bad habits that have to go. It's getting settled into new habits while against an increasingly resistant brain evermore confident that preserving the status quo is the safest thing it can do. | [13:38] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: hmm okay I'll try looking at the general problem w/ sticking to something new from the 'new habits scare the brain' perspective. I'm surprised I haven't considered it that way before. | [13:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | The basics of this point have been on Trilema since forever, but it has taken me quite some time to digest it into this. | [13:40] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: got a feeling my review's a bit too skimpy, and I've failed to get next week's plan in at all. I'll plan to do one on the road and publish as soon as I'm able. | [13:43] |
| jfw: | Off to catch my flight now. I might drop in if network cooperates, otherwise, till Tuesday! | [13:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Safe travels! | [13:46] |
| whaack: | jfw: have fun in Uruguay, btw I never mentioned – the css on your blog is lookin sharp indeed! it's a nice touch for the great content that's being produced (although I admit I haven't found much time to fully read your articles.) | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012185 – or simply the fact that any change is by definition more costly than no change; resistance of the medium applies when yourself are the medium too. | [15:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 13:29:43 BingoBoingo: I don't know any reason the brain resists other than it seems to be biased towards the familiar. Despite active recognition the familiar doesn't work as well as it should, on a deep level the brain seems to want to enforce the familiar. the reason may be something like "No lions or lizards have ate me yet, If I stick to these habits the lions and lizards will continue to not eat me" | [15:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: ty for the simple cut | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | most welcome :) | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012195 – heh, your feelings are out to save you this time! | [15:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 13:43:15 jfw: diana_coman: got a feeling my review's a bit too skimpy, and I've failed to get next week's plan in at all. I'll plan to do one on the road and publish as soon as I'm able. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | safe travels and have fun in Uruguay jfw ! | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | on standyby awaiting news jfw has arrived in the oriental republic | [22:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent just about the entire day finishing the rough draft of my meeting with Adam. I know this is quite a problem. There may have been more spinning, although I can't say I was too hung up on what to include/not to include today. Part of the issue may have been I made the article too long, right now it is at 1,600 words. I moved my rough draft of my article on rereading to Sunday, and my Odyssey reading b | [23:55] |
| whaack: | lock to tomorrow. I am going to leave the revision of the article as the last task i do tomorrow. I am worried it will drag on and _again_ eat up my other tasks. | [23:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 05 Dec 2019
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Dec-2019#1011900 – thanks diana_coman. re "how secure", sure – expected number of clock cycles required to break (collision, preimage etc.) | [00:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-04 15:27:38 diana_coman: jfw: hah, certainly makes for less tense reading! can confirm too that it builds and matches expected hashes; further than that, the code will require some pen-and-paper reading though; re "as secure as SHA3", do you have some sort of "how secure" measurement at all? | [00:42] |
| jfw: | granted there's no proof on lower bounds there, but upper bounds can be found. | [00:43] |
| jfw: | In thinking about the sponge construction, I had convinced myself that 2^capacity was such an upper bound. I'm struggling to precisely recall why, perhaps I should try to have it out as a proof | [00:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did roughly 9hrs of saltmines and 30 mins of journaling. I practiced the guitar for 1hr as well. An expected-unexpected task was I had to exchange the gas cylinder for my stove, which took a little bit over 45mins. | [00:51] |
| jfw: | but if so, smaller capacity is less secure in that sense. However I have no idea whether larger capacity might make it less secure in some other way (more frequent iteration of the permutation 'leaking bits' or something) | [00:53] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Dec-2019#1011901 – interesting, it was deliberate (e.g I ended up with same for yrc genesis); I'd been thinking of each V 'project' as its own namespace for patches just as with the files in its tree | [00:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-04 15:27:54 diana_coman: jfw: that "genesis.vpatch" is a horribly-chosen name. | [00:57] |
| jfw: | or are main.c or Makefile also horrible names? | [00:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: eh, re genesis vs main/makefile – don't mix stuff there really; the idea with V overall is of building yggdrasil not just having tree-stumps all over the place (and all of them starting at genesis because ofc!) | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2018-10-15 mircea_popescu: kinda the fucking point, building yggdrasil over here. | [03:36] |
| diana_coman: | how do you reason anyway re similarity genesis-main/makefile? because "genesis" is whatever vpatch is the root of a tree but not really substantially different in any way from another vpatch otherwise. | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a normal saltmines working day,huh. | [03:43] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012033 – this is pretty much the core trouble – there is no clear proof of "this is indeed more secure than that"; you can pick and choose various criteria, sure, but what they mean exactly is not that clearcut. | [03:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 00:53:58 jfw: but if so, smaller capacity is less secure in that sense. However I have no idea whether larger capacity might make it less secure in some other way (more frequent iteration of the permutation 'leaking bits' or something) | [03:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it was normal indeed. no ocean waves or ladies over for coffee to interrupt the grind at least. | [10:36] |
| dorion_road: | awoke to a thin, sticky blanket of wet snow to shovel. good for snowballs, not sledding. | [11:38] |
| dorion_road: | I'd appreciate an !!up in #t when someone's available. | [11:39] |
| whaack: | misses skiing. | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha, can't have it all? | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: !!up done. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha well not all at once. I would love to go skiing on a trip to Europe | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | quoth Eulora: can't have it all – where would you put it? | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so …plan that trip? you do have quite a lot of stuff to sort out first though, iirc. | [11:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Aha that reminds me also of some George Carlin skit MP linked to once about how life can be seen as a game of figuring out where to put your stuff. The eulora servers are back up, correct? I need to get in there if not just to read the MOTD's | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the game server is up ; the webpage is not up though; do you have the client? | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | eulora is more of "figure out how to hold on long enough & make the most of it" | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I do have one installed on this computer…but I believe it is out of date / I didn't wind up getting it working. The last working client I had is on a desktop that didn't make it to Costa Rica. | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | iirc there is no incompatibility problem as such ie at most you need to update the server IP. | [11:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Towards the end of January I will plan a trip to Europe. I have a more immediate need to plan a border run by ~January 18th. Which prompts the question: jfw and dorion_road: are either of you available to meet for dinner/coffee/etc somewhere in Panama City between now and Jan 18th? My mother is visiting Costa Rica between Jan 5th – Jan 12th I believe, so those dates will not work. | [11:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, ls -l tells me that I set up Eulora in 2015…I remember having trouble getting the client to run and ./euclient gives me 'cannot execute binary file'. If I find some extra time I will try to get the game installed on this machine, otherwise I'll wait until I have my new comp built. | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that sounds like some mismatch there ie you have it compiled with something other than you have running on the machine currently. | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you have a eulora account already? | [12:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | so then possibly a recompile + change of server IP is all it takes. | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, not a priority atm. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: this para is not very clear at all if one doesn't import already quite a lot; just re-phrase it really. | [14:03] |
| jfw: | hmm ok, as an update? | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: just change it in there to make it clearer, not an issue. | [14:05] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012039 – I recall discussion of using the hash of a genesis patch to identify the trees it creates, suggesting to me that the genesis should contain some unique context | [14:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 03:37:56 diana_coman: how do you reason anyway re similarity genesis-main/makefile? because "genesis" is whatever vpatch is the root of a tree but not really substantially different in any way from another vpatch otherwise. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | I can't figure out which discussion you are referencing there, hm; but even as you state it there, that would be something done from outside *with* a patch considered "genesis"; basically any vpatch has a hash anyway, could equally well use that to identify the (sub-)trees that start from it, no? | [14:10] |
| jfw: | also probable I don't quite grasp the overall vision. ATM what I see does look more like a forest of separate projects than one big tree | [14:10] |
| jfw: | let me see if I can find it. | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it is; partly because parts are still missing (most glaringly moving files) | [14:12] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-06 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: not as far as I know; it was always *not done* but always popping up in people's memory as "working"; except every time I wanted to *move* a file rather than have it del/add, it turned out that …no. | [14:12] |
| jfw: | the discussion I recalled is hereabouts | [14:16] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-06-13 mircea_popescu: mod6 the part where each press should end up collected in the /genesis-hash/ dir is settled, i thought ? | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the way I read that is that a v-press from a leaf that has several possible roots should end up in as many dirs as you have roots – ie as many presses effectively – with each dir named based on the hash of the corresponding root (admiteddly I didn't go back fully to see maybe there's more I don't recall on that older convo) | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | ie not literally "genesis-hash" but "root1Name-its-hash" of sorts. | [14:21] |
| jfw: | I'm still finding the linked convo pretty confusing fwiw, a couple different aspects being discussed possibly. | [14:25] |
| jfw: | I think the "several possible roots" scenario is ruled out by the manifest | [14:25] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it is not very clear and moreover it's also a bit old by now so some things have changed, most notably – yes – the manifest part. | [14:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, now you basically give people a lot of work to do to catch up with your code that's finally published; I suppose that balances at least the writing-pain of sorts but I still feel like poking you in the eye for keeping silent for so long. | [14:29] |
| jfw: | More directly to the main.c/Makefile question, if patches are all existing in some unified tree (though I'm as yet unsure quite how that would work), top-level names like that could come in conflict and perhaps each 'project' needs its own subdir, as seen for example in trb and mp-wp | [14:30] |
| jfw: | winces, rubs eye | [14:31] |
| diana_coman: | I think that and similars will get clarified only as the thing finally gets moving towards that yggdrasil; so yes, not clear yet and it's been stuck for ages too. | [14:32] |
| jfw: | alright, small steps then. Think I should regrind that 'keksum' genesis to include name? Could just rename the file too but the name is also in the manifest. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | please do, yes; it's anyway less pain now before anyone else signed it. | [14:36] |
| jfw: | aite. | [14:36] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: Better? And hey the select link still works. | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | better indeed. | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you have your dates for the Dec/Jan holidays? | [15:00] |
| jfw: | sadly not certain yet | [15:01] |
| jfw: | (whaack: ^) | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | kind of weird the sort of uncertainties you choose to live with :P | [15:02] |
| jfw: | I think I need to figure it out today really. | [15:02] |
| jfw: | get it booked, rather. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible indeed. | [15:04] |
| jfw: | I hear the 'weird' too, heh. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | :P | [15:04] |
| whaack: | jfw: alright, I will likely go to Nicaragua and save my trip to Panama for late March / early April. If I do a Panama trip for this visa's border run, the most realistic dates are cerca January 15th. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | vaguely hopes whaack does border runs on some proper motorbike at least. | [15:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that sounds like my mode of travel i'd be using if i wanted to avoid the men in uniform with stamps | [15:11] |
| jfw: | whaack: pretty sure both dorion_road and I will be back by the 15th fwiw. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: otherwise why… run, yes. | [15:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you fly anywhere, since you'll probably hub through panama that'll probably be an opportunity to take a couple days there too. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I suppose you can equally visit BingoBoingo while he is still in Uruguay. | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | For however long I'm still here… | [15:15] |
| jfw: | hey, a bitcoin foundation server is still for sale iirc… | [15:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | It is. Tengo un Dell PowerEdge 610 con 2x 2.67 Ghz Intel E5640 CPUs, 48 GB RAM, 2 fuentes de alimentación y 2 fuentes de alimentación adicionales. | [15:16] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: well, I like the excuse to quickly plan a Panama+Uruguay trip. I'll consider this seriously the next few days. | [15:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, jfw will be able to offer some thoughts on Uruguay in the very near future. | [15:20] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012094 << the week of the 16th is still good for visiting vt. | [17:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 15:02:59 jfw: I think I need to figure it out today really. | [17:48] |
| whaack: | huzzah two days after arriving and my UPS is paying dividends. I am connected via backup internet running on power from my ups. Looks like Costa Rica is having an extended rainy season. Now to figure out how to make it stop beeping… | [17:51] |
| dorion_road: | whaack nice, good for you. good luck repressing the beeps. | [18:00] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: All I had to do was click any button on my APC. I read online though that some apc's don't come with an off button for the beeps and I got pretty worried. | [18:01] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i used to have a series of those. desolder wick cures. | [18:12] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: I may have to do that if I can't figure out how to turn it off completely. I don't need to be woken up at night to be told my power is out. | [18:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Since it runs lead-acid batteries, there are situations where your health might benefit from some beeping. | [18:17] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: ~those~ ( overheat, short, etc ) tend to silent.. | [18:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | I was thinking more along the lines of pre-mature failing battery gas, but probably silent too. Should however smell. | [18:20] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Hm okay, I will take action if the battery starts to smell. Are there other best practices / safety tips I should know about for this brick? | [18:22] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: (unless yer a miser) — 1x/2y battery swap. | [18:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Just if you smell sewer gas or the battery starts bulging remove either it or yourself from the residence as fast as you can. Like out the window fast. But yes, usually yearly battery changes will take the risk of this to almost zero. | [18:25] |
| asciilifeform: | if miser — 1x/3y. beyond that, box becomes 'decorative' | [18:25] |
| whaack: | hm okay. I would not put a bomb in my house to save ~50 yearly | [18:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | 1 year is the sorta interval that should give you a wide margin of safety. | [18:41] |
#ossasepia Logs for 04 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: This message comes later than it should, because I met people on the beach that I had over for a couple of hours after my surf session. I know as I type this I should not have had them over since it was during the prime morning hours and I wouldn't just dip out of a normal job. With that said, I finished 8hr of saltmining and 30 mins of journalin | [01:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-18 21:20:36 diana_coman: after all, if you were working somewhere, you wouldn't just nip out because they want you to go to the mechanic, would you? | [01:34] |
| whaack: | g. I also received the monitor+ups and set them up. The UPS is giving me a 'Site Wiring' warning so I need to investigate what may be wrong with my outlets here. To do this I need to first pay a debt and learn about home circuitry in the general. | [01:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I rather expect the wiring is a mess there and that's what's wrong but yes, you'll need to look at it, certainly. | [09:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The clues of the faulty wiring have been here all along. There's two lights I have here where light 1 needs to be switched on for it to be possible to switch on light 2. | [09:47] |
| diana_coman: | lmao | [09:49] |
| diana_coman: | you clearly get nudged to pay your basic electronics debts :P | [09:50] |
| whaack: | I was confused at first and thought the bulbs must be dead so I came back from the hardware store with a few extras in addition to the spares I had already gotten. | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you get yourself a multimeter too? | [09:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | There are some horror stories here too. Met a fellow staying in an AirBNB apartment that… ran on a single 5 amp breaker | [09:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, I will add one to the list. | [09:57] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: lol. My understanding is that would just be annoying and always breaking, is it unsafe as well? | [10:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well, depends on how much stuff runs on electricity in the place. It isn't inherently unsafe, but it is a tempation do unsafe things. | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | by the time all problems are actually addressed, whaack will build his own house in CR :D | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | (which is not as surprising as it might seem to the naive) | [10:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | The only firm conclusion of the real estate exploration here was that to own property the only things worth considering are new construction apartments priced to move or… have new construction built to your own spec. | [10:17] |
| jfw: | dammit, another monster article. Well I hope it's enjoyed. | [13:57] |
| jfw: | I'll need to focus elsewhere for now. | [13:59] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: very interesting massaged keccaktron. will confirm that it builds and matches output of diana_coman's when set to -c256 . | [14:01] |
| asciilifeform: | err, -s256 | [14:01] |
| jfw: | ty asciilifeform. The thinking on that naming is "s" for "sponge capacity", saving "c" for ye olde -c "check". | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hah, certainly makes for less tense reading! can confirm too that it builds and matches expected hashes; further than that, the code will require some pen-and-paper reading though; re "as secure as SHA3", do you have some sort of "how secure" measurement at all? | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that "genesis.vpatch" is a horribly-chosen name. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you have some unclose footnotes /other tags in your review and so half of it ends up as a footnote; will you fix it so I can have a proper look at it? | [15:29] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman fixed, thank you. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: to what extent did the "specify deadline" approach work to improve anything there? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | to be precise, deadlines were supposed to help structure the work and make communications more reliable | [15:50] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman it caused me to create a better schedule, not good enough, but prevented the task dragging on longer. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | if you mean it would have been otherwise even worse, I can see it, yes. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | otherwise though, those deadlines were clearly not enough/not well chosen; which of those? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: with those days previews/reviews, it sounded like you actually already had some experience with planning but now it's not that clear – was it only since coming here that you did this sort of thing? | [15:53] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I think they were not enough because there wasn't enough detail on the subtasks. And then I spent on unplanned actions. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | the inexperience in writing and the complexity of articles I tackled also contributed to the deadlines not being well chosen. | [15:57] |
| dorion_road: | we touched on this when you gave the rule of thumb of doubling the time you think it'll take. | [15:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 16:54:26 diana_coman: dorion: hm, ok; as a basic thing though, esp if it's something new /you have no experience with, the hard rule is pretty much "estimate the time and then DOUBLE it", lol | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | yes. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: did you ever plan similarly your time before? | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | (similarly aka to same level of detail) | [16:00] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman on the experience making plans. I have some experience, but not with a good guide. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | mind giving me a summary as to what you've got/learn from that experience? there are quite a few things I see there but it helps to know where you're coming from on this. | [16:01] |
| dorion_road: | a lot of the plans I've written for myself have been detailed, but they have largely been private these past couple years. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | private wouldn't be a problem in itself; the question is to what extent the events fit the plans. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | or hm, did you ever check that? lol. | [16:05] |
| dorion_road: | I did check, and I've made adjustments over time, but have a lot of strengthening yet. | [16:07] |
| dorion_road: | on what I've learned, do you mean what I learned writing the latest article or what I've learned through my experience making plans ? | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: through your experience making plans. | [16:08] |
| dorion_road: | well, the first would be how much more meaningful life is when one plans and reflects on his plans. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | I'd rather think that has more to do with reflection than with plans :P but good for you anyway. | [16:10] |
| dorion_road: | when your plans are more ambitious, every minutes and everything you have to do has to be considered, like when and for how long you spend time eating. | [16:11] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman hah. perhaps. but my plans have always been born during some reflection time :) | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: hm; and do you enjoy that "everything you have to do has to be considered, like when and for how long you spend time eating" ? | [16:15] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman to continue: when you're approaching a new problem or skill, try to find a guide who can help keep your plans in check with reality. | [16:15] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I enjoy it in the sense that it seems to me I'm making my best effort at getting the things done I want to see done. | [16:17] |
| dorion_road: | I also enjoy to relax, it seems responsible plans have relaxing time baked in too. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | that for sure but there's more to it there. | [16:18] |
| dorion_road: | my 97yo grandmother made the comment this weekend, "Boy, you really know how to relax. Every bone in your body looks calm." | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | "I want to see done" is incomplete as such; there's "I want to see done at ANY COST" and "I want to see done within this/that cost" | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that's a good point. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; was she correct at least? | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | she was at that time, yes. :) | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it :) | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman then the planning should always try to score cost/benefit ? | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | getting back to your review of the planning, on Thursday there's the "I had originally planned to have the JWRD article drafted and ready for Jacob to review here. I didn't manage that" – what happened there? ie was it just not enough time or did you get sidetracked or what exactly? | [16:22] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman letting the Panama article get away from me pushed the JWRD article start time. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: not necessarily; it's simply that there's planning and planning; ie "at all costs" means one thing and that thing is mainly: ~everything else gets cut to the bone, until the main thing is done; the "within this/that" means that the plan will be itself more leniently made. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | not everything is really worth (and even effective) planning at the same level of detail either; | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman when I sat down to write it, I didn't find myself sidetracked, especially less than the Panama article. It did take longer than the 8h I had allocated, so not enough buffer to begin with either. | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman makes sense on the modes of planning given the stakes. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you know, part of the reason why I asked you re past experience with planning is that otherwise you don't strike me as very… how to even say it, easily planned/plan-fitted; you clearly are/can be disciplined, yes but that's a different thing. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, back to your plan and review there: first thing is that unplanned stuff is a given really but you failed to make any provision for it, to start with. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know if this is because until joining here you found reality way more ..predictable or something (hah, did you?) | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | but even if you did, that was just luck :P | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | so, good plans are *not* extremely rigid and to-the-second-known-upfront | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | because that's just planning to fail really | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | how was it, failing to plan is planning to fail; but – adds diana – so is too-rigidly planning the unknown future. | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman for sure my life has consisted of many unplanned turns, but yes provisioning for the unplanned is something I need to strengthen. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | btw, this was mentioned before (if perhaps not all that clearly in this respect): http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010216 | [16:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 16:56:39 diana_coman: cool; nothing stops you otherwise from having a lengthy list to chew through in that happy case when you finally finish faster than you thought you would; but way better to do that then to constantly end up late. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | ie do NOT plan every hour of your day; because if you plan it ALL, you will inevitably end up snowballing stuff at the first unplanned event. | [16:33] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman as for the detailed, yet not rigid approach, I think I can improve in thinking through the details prior and building in explicit buffer for both learning what I don't know and the unplanned that's sure to manifest. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | sure, have "time permitting" stuff in the queue to fill those buffers should the world turn incredibly tame that day, but that's an unexpected piece of good fortune, not the expected turn of events. | [16:34] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that's for sure a helpful shift in perspective. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | the learning/new part simply means that you double/triple/whatever your estimate because you clearly can't possibly estimate it correctly when you are not even sure wtf that thing is; then there is the above and the expecting-the-unexpected that comes on top and yes, it's more of a perspective shift indeed. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | basically this lack of space for the unplanned is what threw off your week starting with Monday there. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | btw you have a broken link on "update" in #o on Wed in there. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: the other significant part is that you really seem to plan more on the "I'd love to do this" than "it'll take this much", lol | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | which makes you extremely pleasant to work with in first instance, granted, but doesn't help you otherwise a lot. | [16:40] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman fixed the link, ty. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: overall, the plan (and especially the initial plan) is really meant to be a roadmap, not a straightjacket (and I seriously think it would hinder rather than help you if you make it all that rigid); so plan it as a flexible thing to start with: a guide to make sure you don't waste time, but not something so fixed that it can't/shouldn't adapt to significant changes as they happen. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | and honestly, if anyone started planning my time on meals, I'd go nuts. | [16:43] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yea, I'm starting to see with the writing generally the benefit of the it'll take this much approach. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you also clearly need and benefit from time to process things; don't just discard/ignore that. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | it might seem "not productive" but that's not true. | [16:45] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that makes sense on the adaptable guide method. that and more humility on the time it'll take me will pay off. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | you don't really do humble all that well, do you. | [16:47] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman you know sometimes other people want a time from you for the meals. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | fuck them? | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:48] |
| dorion_road: | well that's before the meal. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, a 24 old me avoided French for lunch because with them it would take 1 hour ffs. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | and then the coffee break! | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, the point is not that it should take 4 hours or something but simply that whatever you do gets its proper time and attention, that's all. | [16:49] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman on the processing: yes time helps me with that and no I don't see how I could discard it. if you can believe it the processing I've done has helped humble me from where I was.. | [16:49] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman "A place for everything and every thing in it's place" | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | I can quite more-than-believe it, yes :) | [16:50] |
| dorion_road: | knew she could :) | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | ha! now to next week planning: how are you going to go about it | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | you do know more than you think and then at the same time you think you know more than you do :P | [16:52] |
| dorion_road: | I'd tend to agree. On this week's approach, start with splitting into "at all costs" and "within this/that". | [16:54] |
| dorion_road: | then get most detailed on the requirements for the all costs and lay them on the schedule first. | [16:56] |
| dorion_road: | whatever buffer/unplanned time I make on the first pass, double it, since that itself is a weakness. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | plan for the unplanned; double the unknowns; DO adjust it if/when/as needed rather than keeping quiet like a mouse yes? | [16:57] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, updates on the progress for sure. seems like the EOD reports are helping whaack. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | that doesn't mean they'd help you; figure out what/if it helps you, don't just reach for whatever is around; if you say it helps you, then go ahead but do think it through, ok? | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | and now: what part of your plan did I mess up with this long discussion today? :p | [17:00] |
| dorion_road: | ok, I will think it through. | [17:00] |
| dorion_road: | I had follow through planned. but haven't yet exercised today. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | heh, ruining your fitness then, I see. | [17:01] |
| dorion_road: | though there may be snow to shovel today, but alas, only cold. | [17:02] |
| dorion_road: | thought* | [17:02] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman if there's one thing I have to lean on it's my fitness ;) | [17:02] |
| dorion_road: | I'm going to run basketball practice with local high school tomorrow, we'll see how it goes, but that muscle memory takes a long time to die. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | hah; /me had school kill all basketball enjoyment, lol. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: any further questions re planning? does it all make sense/fit somewhere? | [17:05] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman no further questions, it makes sense, thanks for the feedback and I'll work it in. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | re think it through, know that it's not just that/here; it struck me that you have quite the trouble processing the not-so-sunny side of things really and that's most likely the actual cause of your long deep-freeze too; but that can perhaps wait. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | cool then; (hopefully with some snow soon too :P ). | [17:08] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, the not-so-sunny side of things had my attention for a several years of my 20s. I made a lot of changes and have thawed, but for sure was part of the deep-freeze. sneak peak in the fabled outlines to be filled. | [17:09] |
| dorion_road: | there's been snow on the ground since I've been here, just no new blanket to today. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | was seriously looking around for places-with-snow-to-go-to-already-ffs | [17:11] |
| dorion_road: | has been enjoying the cold and snow, believe it or not. | [17:11] |
| dorion_road: | heh. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | why not; extreme heat is way more…festering, anyway. | [17:12] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, at least you can dress for the cold and light a fire. | [17:17] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I left a comment that's in moderation http://ossasepia.com/2019/12/01/the-success-of-romanian-moft/#comment-7145 | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | published. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | and it does look like the one I was searching for there, indeed, thank you; will see if it's the one MP had in mind too. | [17:46] |
| dorion_road: | cool, my pleasure. | [17:53] |
| whaack: | lobbes: erm following the #t thread… at least in mp's example that is a string i.e. alphabetical comparison. you can't use < or > to sort dates unless you have YYYY-MM-DD format or are converting the date string into some sort of date type. | [22:07] |
| whaack: | s/to sort dates/to sort strings representing dates/ | [22:10] |
| lobbes: | whaack: technically I was converting a unix timestamp (e.g.1459468727) via e.g. line_time = time.gmtime(float(1459468727)) | [22:12] |
| lobbes: | then I was running that through time.strftime(\%d \%b \%Y, line_time) | [22:13] |
| lobbes: | which, you're right, converts it to string huh | [22:14] |
| whaack: | lobbes: okay but if you do the comparison on the string returned from time.strftime you are going to have the same problem. | [22:14] |
| whaack: | mhm | [22:14] |
| lobbes: | whaack ty, this makes sense to me now at least haha. Was indeed an implementation issue on my end | [22:15] |
| whaack: | lobbes: np. | [22:16] |
#ossasepia Logs for 03 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report : I fixed the crontab issue and setup apache/php on my toliet box + wrote a script that takes the the backup data and recreates my blog locally. I can confirm now with much more confidence that my blog is being backed up safely. I spent the rest of the day editing/finishing my Conrad post. That took much longer than the predicted 3hr – I spent closer to 6.5 hours. I will use extra time during my saltmine day | [00:02] |
| whaack: | s to tackle the 2h journaling block I had scheduled for today. | [00:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the backup sounds finally fine; re writing heh, keep that in mind at next "estimate" of timing, you know? | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do apply that mp-wp fix to keep trackbacks out of comments | [05:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack dorion_road you might want to increase the number of comments and posts shown in the sidebar, as 5 is rather little when there's quite the discussion going on; it's an easy change too. | [05:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mhm I thought 3h was generous because I thought my article was already completed – but on reread I saw it needed major restructuring. I will apply the mp-wp fix within the next two days, for now I increased the number of comments/posts (btw dorion_road that's just a setting on the dashboard under appearances->widgets) | [10:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm going to go surf for a bit, not an escape I swear, the waves look great and I hardly left the house once yesterday / could use some exercise. | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: enjoy! | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is this keccak background the result of 1.5 hours + 0.5hrs planning? | [15:25] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: closer to 4 hours :( | [15:29] |
| jfw: | in part I ended up doing some digging despite having initially wanted to keep scope to what I could do right then without it | [15:32] |
| jfw: | …so I guess I can't really be said to have decided on scope after all | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha; it even read a bit like "he's not FULLY decided on which way to go and which way to not go"; hence my question; hmm. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | what was that digging for/in/about? | [15:35] |
| jfw: | footnotes i-iv mainly | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | ah, do you mean it was time consuming finding the exact references there? (ie you knew what you wanted /that they existed but just had to spend time to find them?) | [15:37] |
| jfw: | yes, though I didn't know exactly what I was looking for | [15:38] |
| jfw: | had vague recollections. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | were the recollections enough to write the text though? ie could have written it first and then time the reference-digging separately; and yes, it's an ever growing pain to find refs around here though I expect in your cases here you had it even harder as it wasn't all that fresh in memory, hm. | [15:41] |
| jfw: | I didn't remember the year or the context so couldn't have written that second sentence at least | [15:43] |
| jfw: | I could have left it a 'todo' and then timed the rest separately | [15:45] |
| jfw: | Which would have given me the choice of whether to then do it on this pass | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes; other than that, the added trouble you are having there is the silence-gap that you are effectively trying to bridge while writing but inevitably retro-actively and so you get both the split and the resulting tension between "I'm talking of my work that I did alone" vs "but I *was* reading the logs and informed by it" | [15:48] |
| jfw: | I felt such tension indeed. | [15:50] |
| jfw: | That and the lack of freshness of refs would be among the debts of not writing mentioned in yesterday's | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | eh, the debt there has also the lack of your own writings to rely on otherwise; but more to the point, why not simply write it as what it was aka "I worked on this on my own (but reading the logs/this/that)"? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | you don't *have to* write it as if it was already part of the forum or anything; you are bringing it forwards now and people want to see it, yes, but the history is what it is, what. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | gah sorry, phone call distraction. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | k. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | back. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | Re debt also meaning lack of ready context – yep. | [16:06] |
| jfw: | hm, I wanted to include the context from the forum since it was to some degree informing my actions, though I was not a part of it | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, include it but precisely as what it was – a reference only. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | ie focus on your actions ie tell it from your perspective since that's how it was developed anyway + simply add footnotes/references when/where you used the logs/blogs/whatevers since that's how they played in anyway, isn't it? | [16:09] |
| jfw: | as in stating that more explicitly? yeah I guess that's what you said. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | as in keeping to the one perspective that matches anyway; for one thing it helps by reducing (or getting rid of) that tension anyway. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | the freshness problem would come up again in that I'm not certain when/where/how I read what things; I have some notes and chat but that'd be a dig as well | [16:11] |
| jfw: | but I think I get it as far as keeping to the one perspective. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | heh, you are there your own historian so you get the double pleasure of cursing those imbecilles who didn't document properly + being cursed :D | [16:12] |
| jfw: | aha. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | alternatively, you can of course just… admit and live with that, as "not worth recovering" or something, I suppose; your call, either way. | [16:14] |
| jfw: | I'm rather prefering to recover what I reasonably can, as I go, but yes. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | well then, if it helps, I'd rather read the recovered history than no history too, certainly. | [16:18] |
| jfw: | thanks. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Dec-2019#1011822 – ahem, did you do the re-read properly before this stage that was supposed to be just final review? | [16:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-03 10:36:59 whaack: diana_coman: mhm I thought 3h was generous because I thought my article was already completed – but on reread I saw it needed major restructuring. I will apply the mp-wp fix within the next two days, for now I increased the number of comments/posts (btw dorion_road that's just a setting on the dashboard under appearances->widgets) | [16:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes on Sunday I finished the rough draft, and then without having a time gap I reread and revised it. Then the next day I went for the final review. For this final review I had planned to make only word choice revisions / small edits. But I believed that the article needed a structural revision. So I did some major edits, and then I took a break and did another final revision. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for starters, it needs a time gap because otherwise you won't see as much as you could after a break. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | for the other, if you end up with major revision, then yes, it will need another pass, it's a sort of back-to-step-2 indeed. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | basically your "final review" was more like first revision really. | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I knew that it needed another "take break then revise" yesterday since I started with a major revision and not just some edits. My rough draft on Saturday was a completion of the steps up to '…obvious mistakes, mispellings, etc' http://ztkfg.com/2019/10/v-study-part-1-vpatches-and-vdiff/comment-page-1/#comment-47 (point 2) . | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For now it may be best to assume I need to do two break + revisions as I build up my writing muscles. This was also not my first rough draft I first tossed out some completely different articles as well. | [16:42] |
| whaack: | s/some completely different articles/a draft of a different article <— sorry there was only one and it was not complete. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: plan it like that then, with 2 passes and see how it goes, sure. | [16:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ Updated my plan for the week to take this into account for my next article. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [16:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Dec-2019#1011821 << thanks, I made articles 10 and comments 15. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-03 05:44:48 diana_coman: whaack dorion_road you might want to increase the number of comments and posts shown in the sidebar, as 5 is rather little when there's quite the discussion going on; it's an easy change too. | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | works. | [17:24] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks for the nudge and also the trackback fix. | [17:57] |
| dorion_road: | I'd appreciate an !!up in #t | [17:57] |
#ossasepia Logs for 02 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: I finished the review from last week + published the plan for next week, completed a rough draft of An Outpost of Progress article, and did a 1 hour session reading The Odyssey. I also did a short review of my backup scripts and found that they are not working – my most recent blog article is not backed up. The issue is that my ssh key is being rejected when rsync tries to connect to my account solely made | [01:02] |
| whaack: | for storing backups of the blog. I believe the first time crontab fired the script that syncs from digitalocean it worked and then the script failed every subsequent time. | [01:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, you should always run the crontab manually too as a basic test before letting it be; pfft. | [04:08] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, fix it, obviously. | [04:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well yes I ran the scripts manually before I put them on a crontab timer. I believe I also scheduled the crontab to fire a few minutes after the point in time I set them up, to make sure the crontab itself was running. | [10:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: In any case I will look into it the problem and fix it right now. | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then what changed and moreover did it actually do what was expected that crontab-test run or didn't you check the result or what happened there? | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [10:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Either I threw a pebble and did not thoroughly verify that the script worked, which truthfully is the most likely case, or after I set it up the first day I tweaked some setting on digitalocean / digitalocean tweaked some setting for me. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, did sound like a pebble really. | [10:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The problem is that crontab runs in a separate environment that by default is not set to used the ssh key my terminal has access to. So my script works manually but not when it is run via crontab. Since there were no changes to the files on my blog since i tested it manually, I didn't notice that rsync wasn't working. If i had checked my terminal mail and looked at the crontabs output, or checked the timestamps of file | [10:17] |
| whaack: | s, I would have caught this bug. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | eh, whaack, being beaten *by someone who knows what they are doing*; otherwise it's just broken bones, not growth, lolz. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: "a bit" there might be the understatement of the day; but if that was indeed apres apres-ski, I'm rather positively impressed with the result anyway. | [10:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Probably not something too important to address but so you're aware the graph of insanity in your article http://ossasepia.com/2017/02/18/the-open-sores-of-monkey-code/ goes all over the sidebar and can't be clicked / doesn't have a readable resolution. | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah, I noticed there are now quite a few of the old images that got messed up by the switch to the mp-wp theme, ugh; it's somewhere down at the bottom of the list but thanks anyway. | [11:17] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Dec-2019#1011762 << right, I understand there's many bytes of settling yet to do. with that being said, I'll take satisfaction in generating positively impressive results. | [11:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-02 10:52:01 diana_coman: dorion_road: "a bit" there might be the understatement of the day; but if that was indeed apres apres-ski, I'm rather positively impressed with the result anyway. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why not just sign the archive anyway? | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | for gales initial release I mean. | [15:16] |
| dorion_road: | jfw mind answering spyked's question about your build by hand X11 recipe. does it produce a statically linked X11 ? or dynamic linked musl ? | [15:24] |
| dorion_road: | (when you have the chance.) | [15:24] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hm, no strong reason I suppose. Large things are slow to get to my signing machine, but this isn't quite in that territory, I'm not typing base64 by hand or anything. | [15:53] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: will have a look, but in a word, that was dynamic, on gentoo | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw I enjoyed reading the gales files; esp after a CS dig, it makes for a refreshing crisp & don't-mess-my-shit read. | [15:58] |
| jfw: | glad to hear it | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | I certainly want to get to give it a try but it might be a while until I dig up some proper chunk of time for it. | [15:59] |
| jfw: | sure, and perhaps some further wrinkles will be ironed by then | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | that would be great. | [16:01] |
| jfw: | The bootstrap process takes me (including compile times) around an hour, with a fair amount of the copy-pasting I caution against ;) | [16:02] |
| jfw: | I'm sure it would be scriptable with a bit more thinking through. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh; not bad to know it though; for starters it will surely take me longer because of poking-it-everywhere and anyway, it's your one hour after the few years on it. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | right. some of those gcc configure options are a devil, miss one and something breaks 10 steps down the line | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, that monitor & ups will be coming forever "tomorrow" ? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: heh yes. i called cococo to check on the order, and they said the delivery company they were using wanted to charge an extra 00 or so to take the road to my exact location, so they told the delivery company to leave the packages in a nearby city with one of their partners. The partner will deliver it either 'Tuesday or Wednesday' so it'll probably get here about Friday, really. | [16:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it was amazing how the guy was well informed about my order and knew the whole change of plans that had happened but never thought he should ping me and let me know. | [16:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Welcome to Latin America | [16:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thinking about the what do you mean here now, might be easier discussed here. How to put it… there was a kind of shift in framing of my thought process | [16:43] |
| jfw: | The tasks themselves consist mostly of thinking, and the planning of the tasks likewise … | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you mean the coding tasks? | [16:45] |
| jfw: | right. so, how was I to come up with a solid plan for what to code, before thinking further about what the code itself needs | [16:45] |
| jfw: | the two need to feed back into each other as I see it | [16:46] |
| jfw: | (spec and implementation) | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | sure, that's fine and just like with any other piece of writing: at times you need to do more thinking before being able to write | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | there's no interdiction on thinking about code, quite on the contrary, the writing of spec is after all a form of "thinking about code" too | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | the potentially iffy part is at "what the code itself needs" | [16:47] |
| jfw: | yeah should be more like, what the code needs to do to solve the problem, what inputs it therefore needs and so on | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | because code is not exactly having much to say about needs of its own; but to the extent that you mean "what is still needed for this to be useful", sure. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | there, precisely :) | [16:49] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: and re "this does read more like a report than a review" – do you recall my past reviews being better in this regard – being more for myself? I'll go back over them and see if I can spot the difference. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, they were certainly more actively reviewing, you know? it might be that you simply left this one so late + rushed it so much that there was no time & inclination to review anything but that's the effect already, not the root cause. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | whether you did them more for yourself or not, only you can tell really; my suggestion here was simply to point out to you that ultimately they are meant to be of most use to you really. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, I quite think you are not very fond of reporting otherwise :P | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: or are you? | [17:17] |
| jfw: | hm. I'm tending to think it's more the reviewing I'm not fond of and so got displaced by reporting when I had to grab at something | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | well, it is easier for sure so that part I can see, yes. | [17:18] |
| jfw: | so yeah, will do that rereading and bear in mind that they're for me. | [17:19] |
| jfw: | thx | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | cool, np. | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | btw jfw dorion_road (when you get back to your key, obv) you should at least rate one another really. | [17:32] |
| jfw: | yeah I need to get all my ratings in really | [17:32] |
| dorion_road: | BingoBoingo are you around to grant me an !!up in #t ? it'd be appreciated. | [18:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Sorry, can in a bit late on it. | [18:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | *came | [18:34] |
| dorion_road: | ty for the try BingoBoingo | [18:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Dec-2019#1011772 << thanks for the follow up there. | [18:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-02 15:55:24 jfw: dorion_road: will have a look, but in a word, that was dynamic, on gentoo | [18:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 01 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: missing EOD report from yesterday: I began my week review (but did not finish it), had my discussion with you in pms, and then met with Adam for the evening. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a lot to still do today then. | [15:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | work well. | [15:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will do my best. I spent time this morning meditating on yesterday's conversation and journaling my thoughts. It was difficult and there was a good bit of spinning. Now I am putting my emotions aside and just buckling down for the rest of the day. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that could have waited for evening/tomorrow morning since the priority of the day is to get all that work done; anyways, it is what it is now. | [15:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ ack. | [15:41] |
#ossasepia Logs for 30 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: Today was a regression in terms of discipline. I did chores slowly and was overall distracted throughout the day. I also sinned and played guitar for 45 mins without having deserved it. What I got done was an article on the ordered computer parts + following up with cococo to make sure they were delivering my items. (The UPS and monitor should be here by Monday.) I also read the two trilema articles on [htt | [00:26] |
| whaack: | p://trilema.com/2017/re-reading-is-the-most-powerful-tool/][rereading] and the bicameral world at least twice each. Unsurprisingly I still need to spend more time to digest them. The main task that I flopped on was completing a rough draft of An Outpost of Progress. I sta | [00:26] |
| whaack: | rted editing something that I had already written, but it was clear looking at my output that my writing was school-like in that it didn't add a unique insight/perspective. The article in its current state is not too much more than me paraphrasing/plot summarizing Conrad. The other incomplete assignment I was supposed to do today was to read 30 pages of The Odyssey, I will make a small dent into that now before I go to bed. | [00:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011661 – if you mean the blog's own list in there, not really; onth I personally prefer that feedbot tells me about pingbacks too so I'd filter them for blog-publishing but not entirely out of the feed as such. | [04:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 20:49:54 jfw: diana_coman: the widget filtering part of http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/29/comments-filtering-for-mp-wp/ works for me, ty. Do you know if pingbacks are still supposed to be in the comments RSS? I recall some mention of this but can't seem to find it. | [04:36] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-01 mircea_popescu: anyways — i dun think a blog should list pingbacks either in the comment rss or in the "new comments" navbar. | [04:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011662 – I like it better too! | [04:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 21:16:32 jfw: ahh my blog looks so much nicer now. Main thing still missing afaik is titles-only archive. | [04:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011671 – this. | [04:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 21:42:16 BingoBoingo: jfw: I read that is he sees a lot of open questions that can prevent an OS from fitting in just one meg | [04:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011679 – why? | [04:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 00:26:55 whaack: diana_coman: EOD report: Today was a regression in terms of discipline. I did chores slowly and was overall distracted throughout the day. I also sinned and played guitar for 45 mins without having deserved it. What I got done was an article on the ordered computer parts + following up with cococo to make sure they were delivering my items. (The UPS and monitor should be here by Monday.) I also read the two trilema articles on [htt | [04:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: admitting is fine but not enough; why did you let it happen and what are you going to do so it doesn't continue? | [04:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: enjoy the festivities, it's weekend anyway. | [04:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not quite sure why I let myself lose focus. It's not as clear cut as the problem ~2 weeks ago where I had avoidance activities that were massive time sinks. That said, there is a bad habit I have ongoing that I nipped. The bad habit is listening to music with headphones while I do chores such as cooking. It's a bad habit because it prevents thinking during valuable free minutes. Another problem was that I started | [09:50] |
| whaack: | the day late. If you index my awake hours from hour 0 to hour 15 then my peak brain activity is during hour 1 to hour 7. Yesterday I didn't take full advantage of those morning hours and did most of my work in the evening. | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there's music and music really – some more helpful for thinking and some less so really but at any rate… even cooking requires thinking, lolz. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note also that if you give in to old patterns, you'll just get back to them, it's how it works. | [10:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the music was of the less thinking variety, also listening to music via headphones rather than speakers is much more mind-numbing. | [10:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I know that giving in to old patterns means I'll get back to them. But I don't know of a concrete 'old pattern' I am getting back into in this case other than a very general 'not-focused' pattern. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, for starters the "work in the evening"; for the other, the mind-numbing really. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | what does it tell you so terrible that you'd rather shut it down, anyway? | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: maybe meditate on that some more and filter out the answer in essay/article form at some point; meanwhile it's the question to ask whenever drawn towards "shut down, mind". | [10:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I haven't though about participating in my mind-numbing activities from the perspective of that question. But the question made me think of something I will pgp you. | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right. | [10:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=diZ8 | [10:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: got that & I'll look at it later today. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok ty. | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there is very little one can be totally sure to rely on; but the contrast does raise some questions. | [12:27] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011685 – good to hear. | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 04:37:16 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011662 – I like it better too! | [16:21] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011687 – then thanks both for clearing that up. So he was quite serious but I misinterpreted. /me adds to his MP reading luby codex | [16:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 04:37:58 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011671 – this. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, it takes some time to adjust, yes. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | possibly raleigh might help :P | [16:23] |
| jfw: | if only he were on irc! | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahaha; you know, his deeds record doesn't sound all that helpful but feel free to… invite? lolz | [16:26] |
| jfw: | oh, http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011682 – I meant the comments rss feed as opposed to the sidebar, and that was the ref I was remembering, yes. It does look to me like MP was talking about both though. | [16:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 04:36:50 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011661 – if you mean the blog's own list in there, not really; onth I personally prefer that feedbot tells me about pingbacks too so I'd filter them for blog-publishing but not entirely out of the feed as such. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I think he means both (ie he thinks trackbacks should not be in the comments rss feed either). | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | hm, might as well clarify this, why not; let's see. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | no disagreement with your points there, ftr. It does make for a bit of pressure when referencing – "I might be broadcasting to everyone who follows this blog" – but I suppose that's proper | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why pressure though? | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | ie yes, it might get broadcasted to all those that follow the blog you reference but…why is that adding pressure? | [16:56] |
| jfw: | hm, not sure 'why' really | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | :) | [16:58] |
| jfw: | worst that happens is you find out you were being dumb, and what's so bad about that, right? | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, even before that really; once you publish it, it's public; what difference does it make how many you specifically broadcast to? | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | ie you seem to latch there on to a false shade of sorts or dunno | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | other than that sure, the *best* that can happen is you find out *how* and *where* you were being dumb. | [17:03] |
| jfw: | right. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, the first time I ever wrote an academic article to actually publish, I did as best I knew how and then sent it – as one is supposed to – to my supervisor for a revision; he came back with "it's very good"; I was too stunned to swear on the spot (hence, I still got to finish my PhD degree in the end I suppose but still). | [17:05] |
| jfw: | you were expecting more criticism? | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I was expecting some help which yes, had to be criticism; and no, it was simply not possible that it was "good" like that, there is no such thing in the given circumstances. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | sure, it could have sucked even more, absolutely. | [17:08] |
| jfw: | ahh I see, an empty thumbsup treatment. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | yes; the easiest and least helpful thing ever; see also the mandatory reading re feedback in general because it's the same thing really. | [17:10] |
| jfw: | as was just in the other log too, heh | [17:11] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-30 mircea_popescu: dunning kruger, rite. | [17:11] |
| jfw: | Gotta run shortly but will add recursing to d-k recursion to re-reading queue. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | as it happens, yes. | [17:12] |
#ossasepia Logs for 29 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [03:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: looks good; is the fundamental approach in that thread clear now? | [03:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you have a broken link/messed up tags on "previous mention of rolling back " | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | such a pleasant read otherwise. | [14:12] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thank you, glad to hear it was pleasant, I fixed the link. | [18:12] |
| dorion_road: | I'm pretty tied down with festivities here, which will be cooling off sunday, and have also yielded renewing old connections that could be resourceful. I will catch up further tomorrow morning. | [18:17] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011654 – will answer in #t since MP asked as well. | [19:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 03:21:00 diana_coman: jfw: looks good; is the fundamental approach in that thread clear now? | [19:10] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the widget filtering part of http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/29/comments-filtering-for-mp-wp/ works for me, ty. Do you know if pingbacks are still supposed to be in the comments RSS? I recall some mention of this but can't seem to find it. | [20:49] |
| jfw: | ahh my blog looks so much nicer now. Main thing still missing afaik is titles-only archive. | [21:16] |
| jfw: | dorion_mode, gimme a shout if you want a hand with the comment filtration or otherwise. | [21:18] |
| jfw: | pretty easy tho. | [21:18] |
| jfw: | dorion_mode: also any thoughts re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953896 . | [21:20] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-29 jfw: mircea_popescu: nifty, thanks. Will see if I can accomodate on this pass; otherwise what I'd be working toward is a wallet that's still "declared" but with keys not accessible to node. | [21:20] |
| jfw: | The q = a + b thing he mentions could, in the most literal interpretation, be done with but a minor schema change in the current plan, though I do suspect the full index is necessary to fully generalize as I think he has in mind. | [21:24] |
| jfw: | ooh, perhaps I digest the Luby paper on the plane. | [21:25] |
| jfw: | also lol, wondering how serious http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953855 is. MS-DOS v2.0 source doesn't fit in 1MB :D | [21:37] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-29 mircea_popescu: aaaanyways. my chief takeaways from spyked 's article are that 1) a multi-gb os is a joke, no matter how you turn this. it is deeply unclear to me 1mb is a defensible amt of space for the os to occupy, | [21:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: I read that is he sees a lot of open questions that can prevent an OS from fitting in just one meg | [21:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | And as a critique of chasing absolute minimalism for minimalism's sake | [21:42] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: ohh so 1mb as unjustifiably *small*? that'd make a lot more sense | [21:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Multi gigs, too big. 1 MB probably too small. | [21:52] |
| jfw: | thimbronion: maybe try normal internet rather than ipv6, say by putting freenode in your hosts file? | [22:04] |
| thimbronion: | Ok, since it happened again after they said the problem was resolved, I'm parting. I will try your suggestion jfw. | [22:17] |
| thimbronion: | In the meantime I can be found in #exusia should anyone wish to contact me via irc. | [22:18] |
| thimbronion: | #exusiae, rather | [22:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | jfw: it seems it's probably best to ask any questions re wallet/transactions/trb in #t really; though atm the chances of getting a lot of help there aren't all that clear. | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: any chance you answer jfw's question ? | [04:05] |
| ossabot: | (trinque) 2019-11-25 jfw: trinque: do you know of an existing solution for pushing raw transactions with TRB, patched or otherwise? | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok; for btc though I do hope you are otherwise planning to look & find also some people other-than-surf-pal-who-moves-to-nicaragua or wherever, right? | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo_: in fedex-lolz, their tracking page now says it's in the US and "no scheduled delivery date available at this time". | [04:22] |
| diana_coman: | perhaps meanwhile they found out that the UK is on the other side of the ocean or something. | [04:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Well, they've done it to Huawei before | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, we shall see. | [10:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I'll keep networking/searching for people who trade btc/cash in either direction. | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: In last-minute updates, pcgamingcr told me that actually the graphics card they have available are ~00 Radeon RX 550 4GB or ~80 Radeon RX 580 4GB or ~00 Asus GTX 1660 6GB. My question is there a noticeable benefit I will see | [12:46] |
| whaack: | from shelling out for one of the ore pricier VC options for, say, hacking on the Eulora client. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not really, eulora is very undemanding re graphics + for hacking you'd anyway focus on non-graphics really | [12:47] |
| diana_coman: | iirc someone even managed to run the client on a virtual machine (though that was extreme & slow ofc) so it will run pretty much on ~anything | [12:48] |
| diana_coman: | sure, it will always look better, shinier etc on latest & greatest (+ the fitting drivers because those make the difference even more than card per se). | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but overall it's really more about how much you care about the graphics card otherwise really | [12:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: When you say 'care about the graphics card otherwise' what does otherwise refer to? I have ~0 experience working with the GPU, making animations, etc. I played a little bit with bagger's CEPL and got little past the hello world stage, but it seemed like something I may be interested in doing later. My thinking is 'maybe some day i would like to be able to produce shiny eulora cli | [13:00] |
| whaack: | ents, but i don't care about having a shiny eulora client today' | [13:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I mean mainly if you need/want/are interested in latest graphics for something other than eulora | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if it's "some day", leave it for then, it's not like you can't change a graphics card either | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | and/or build another machine specifically for that if you really get that interested in graphics. | [13:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | The sub 200 USD easy to find sorta graphics card is probably the sweet spot for anyone who isn't animating, rendering, or trying to make their games look like film. | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | but anyway, I expect even with your first option of graphics card there that you can still do decent graphics/animations really | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | basically if you don't know for sure what and why you need X or Y or Z graphics card, you'll likely find totally fine any decent option even if older or something. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | if later you figure out you want X or Y graphics card for good reason, you can just change it (if it works with the rest of configuration), what; not a big issue. | [13:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | under the impression the gfx card is the easiest thing to swap out later | [13:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay ty. I will go with the rx 550 then and make a proper investment in a graphics card if/when I actually need one. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: np; and sounds sensible, yes. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: depending on OS and all that, there can be all sorts of drivers-induced nightmares but otherwise and in principle myeah. | [13:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Another question. The [https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/SPEC-06-RGB/p/CC-9011146-WW#tab-tech-specs]][Corsair Spec 06 case] I am getting comes with 2 included 120mm fans with 6 potential spots for fans. Should I get additional fans? | [13:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: On that case the extra spots look like they are for folks doing weird with watercooling and such | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it looks like the 2 included should be enough for as long as you keep it in a sensible place really; at any rate, you can monitor the temp and figure out later if you really need to add fans, it depends in the end on your environment too. | [13:44] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes the case also supports watercooling. Is that an issue? I did not do too much of an investigation on cases. I know only that they need to have the right size / form factor, and bigger is better for cooling. | [13:45] |
| diana_coman: | also, if you have in there 8 running fans, it might end up rather noisy, so maybe not ideal if it can be helped. | [13:45] |
| whaack: | Yes I really don't want to replace my background audio of ocean waves with the noise of fans spinning. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re size, the less crowded stuff is, the more space for air to move about so yes. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | so then, let it be as it is and otherwise monitor it and see, that's how things are figured out anyway. | [13:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: cool. Looks like the major pieces are all decided then. I am going with the 00 1500VA UPS My thought process was if they are both so overpriced then the investment aspect is out the window and I should cut my losses by getting the cheaper option that addresses my immediate needs. I read a review on amazon that seemed thoughtful that de | [13:50] |
| whaack: | tailed how to attach a better off brand battery and added it to my notes. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [13:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Shouldn't be an issue | [13:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | Cases like that one they try to make versatile | [13:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's the smaller cases that try to force you into particular flavors of weird | [13:52] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Cool. | [13:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | On the big cases they have to offer the possibility of water cooling, or there's a subset of customers that'll give the case a hard pass. | [14:02] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: If my case offers vertical GPU mounting, should I get a mount / Pcie Riser Cable to do so? Or is it unnecessary. | [14:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: depends on the height of the GPU. If you don't have to, I don't see why you would. If space demands you mount vertically, it forces you to get one. | [14:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | If you can find your desired gfx card in a "low profile" version, that can also work and helps to keep the clutter down. | [14:37] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Alright ty. Looks like my GPU should fit just fine. | [14:52] |
| whaack: | asking though if they have the low profile version. | [14:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | Cool | [14:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I went to town and ordered the following items for my computer/work station: A cpu, motherboard, graphics card, psu, backup internal drive, a case, an internal ssd card reader, a mouse/keyboard, a monitor, and a UPS. I will write an article with the exact items ordered soon. I tried to open a bank account and learned that I need a letter from a local describing my job/living location/etc. My landlord will w | [21:19] |
| whaack: | rite one for me. The bank told me that I can deposit k/month at first, but that limit can be increased over time. I also spent time in town getting various items to improve the state of my apartment. I am pretty exhausted after today's trip and will have to push back my planned 4hours of reviewing backup strategy + testing my blog recovery. Instead I will do some item unboxing tonight and try to get some good rest for tomorrow. | [21:19] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Nov-2019#1011597 – belated ack. | [23:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-28 04:05:33 diana_coman: jfw: it seems it's probably best to ask any questions re wallet/transactions/trb in #t really; though atm the chances of getting a lot of help there aren't all that clear. | [23:20] |
| jfw: | Got a comment thread going with MP on how to do the node-wallet split more generally which I'm trying to make the most of. | [23:24] |
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: 6.5hr done of saltmines, I wound up spending closer to 3h today on researching/ordering parts. I used an extra 1hr 15min to read/study Spanish. I investigated the 0000 gmt datetime bug. The problem I am almost certain arose after I revived my dead sql process. mpwp uses the 0000 to signify a null date, and my new sql process has a setting that makes the date invalid and rejects the insert. The new time cons | [00:29] |
| whaack: | uming item I have is I must make trips to the atm (1h by taxi each way) to acquire cash to pay rent and have enough cash to be able to make bank deposits to order the computer parts. I am trying to speed the cash acquiring process up by doing a btc-buy in the us and a btc-sell locally. | [00:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: mpwp has 0000 set as default for dates indeed; does the insert rely on default values though? it sounds rather surprising because you'd end up with those 0000 everywhere then, hm; what happened to the "sql process" that it had to be revived anyway? | [04:16] |
| diana_coman: | the btc-buy/sell locally will be useful anyway. | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: atm whaack doesn't really have the luxury of figuring out how to build an UPS from scratch too, on top of everything else; yes, a working APC UPS is not ideal nor best nor anything else; it still is a working UPS. | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's this: http://ossasepia.com/2010/05/11/mica-fabula-de-kafka/#comment-7096 | [07:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not sure what killed the mysql process. 9 days ago digitalocean sent out an email saying they, "rolled out mitigation efforts across our entire fleet" to address Intel's statement regarding a vulnerability, "Machine Check Error Avoidance On Page Size Change." It may be that they restarted my machine and my mysql process is not set to run on startup. | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eurgh; such "service". | [08:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well recall digitalocean was the lifeboat from the TMSR fire. I think that I should find a new provider and use them as a test for recovering my backups. | [08:27] |
| diana_coman: | sounds like a plan. | [08:31] |
| whaack: | I found a solution to Incorrect datetime value bug. I edited the /etc/mysql/mysql.conf.d/mysqld.cnf file and added the line sql-mode = 'ONLY_FULL_GROUP_BY,STRICT_TRANS_TABLES,ERROR_FOR_DIVISION_BY_ZERO,NO_AUTO_CREATE_USER,NO_ENGINE_SUBSTITUTION,ALLOW_INVALID_DATE' . The change from my original sql_mode was I removed NO_ZERO_IN_DATE,NO_ZERO_DATE and added ALLOW_INVALID_DA | [09:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-26 00:12:53 whaack: For tomorrow's unexpected task list: I have a strange error that prevents me from saving drafts of articles on ztkfg. The error is some datetime value is getting set to 0000-00-00 00:00:00. My servers clock / date function seem to be working, and in the error log it shows some fields with the date/time set correctly. | [09:41] |
| whaack: | TES. Note that although in the client the variable is SQL_MODE in the cnf file you must assign the variable sql-mode with a hyphen. If you need to see your current sql mode you can run "SHOW VARIABLES LIKE 'sql_mode' ;" in the mysql client. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do the dates end up now invalid in db though? | [09:44] |
| whaack: | goes to check | [09:46] |
| whaack: | The dates end up as 0000-00-00 00:00:00 as I understand is intended. But I am going to see if I can remove the ALLOW_INVALID_DATES flag since that may not be necessary having already removed "NO_ZERO_DATE" and "NO_ZERO_IN_DATE". | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, dunno if intended; afaik in my db the dates are properly set really, for both post_date and post_date_gmt | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | the default values are 000 but I don't think it's meant to insert without setting it | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | hence my q yesterday and hint to go and look at the insert because it's not as much that it should allow bogus dates but rather WHY does it try to enter bogus dates to start with? | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | the trouble with unexpected resets and "updates" is that they might have fucked whatever versions of anything and therefore who knows how long it takes to track this down | [09:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The post_date is set correctly, but the post_date_gmt gets set to 0000. I will take a look as to why. | [10:00] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, can probably leave it at whatever non-breaking thing for now if it's not obvious, but should find a less time-consuming place for your blog indeed, by the looks of it | [10:00] |
| whaack: | Also I did not need to set the flag ALLOW_INVALID_DATES, and I removed it. I also can keep the NO_ZERO_IN_DATE flag. I just needed to remove the NO_ZERO_DATE flag. | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | gotta love the 3 flags for same thing approach, myeah. | [10:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay I did a small investigation. The sql schema has the 0000 date as the defaults. The post_date_gmt gets left at the default, 0000, to represent that the article has not been posted yet (because one is saving a draft). That said, the other date variable "post_date" is being set when one saves a draft. | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, so it's set fine when you publish it, then? | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | (I don't really keep drafts so yeah, I wouldn't notice that case) | [10:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | ok then. | [10:16] |
| whaack: | bootstraps | [10:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: It's just about a week until you hop on the plane. Any loose ends outstanding for your Montevideo trip? | [11:40] |
| dorion_road: | hiya #o, good afternoon/evening. any one around willing and able to !!up me in #t ? | [14:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: done. | [14:43] |
| jfw: | Well it looks like I got two days of writing in there in the effort to not leave that series hanging. | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, so you need… more pressure? :D | [14:44] |
| jfw: | heh, idk, still need mein laufrichtung andern perhaps | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | vielleicht. | [14:55] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Nov-2019#1011517 – nice, reads better to me. | [15:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-27 07:32:17 diana_coman: jfw: how's this: http://ossasepia.com/2010/05/11/mica-fabula-de-kafka/#comment-7096 | [15:07] |
| jfw: | can't comment as to the mouse's gender, afaik it's ambiguous in the German. There's a Clemens quote here, if I can find… | [15:08] |
| jfw: | yay! In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | eh, that's because she's no lady, just a madchen | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | but it's die Maus, isn't it? | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | das Madchen | [15:11] |
| jfw: | yes, so unclear if the 'sie' is because of the mouse or just the word, is what I mean. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | ah, well, it's a generic mouse, lol. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: nice to see your action in #t but mind actually updating me on your obviously-but-rather-left-unspecified new plans for the week as well? | [15:31] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman shall I leave a comment on my plan for the week with the updated plan for the remaining days ? sorry for the weak communication there. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: works, yes. | [15:52] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Nov-2019#1011542 – thanks for asking. I've asked around about old blankets and such for padding material but nothing's turned up yet; I'm assuming worst case I can buy a bunch of bubble wrap and pillows down there. | [15:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-27 11:40:53 BingoBoingo: jfw: It's just about a week until you hop on the plane. Any loose ends outstanding for your Montevideo trip? | [15:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Well, got any clean beach towels? | [15:53] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: sure, just not many. | [15:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | I have some bubble wrap after preparing diana_coman's server, but the place to get more bubble wrap is a trip. | [15:54] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman another !!up in #t would be appreciated. | [15:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, I don't see how having a variety of things padding machines could hurt | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: done. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: good to know, then I'll bring the bubble wrap along if needed. | [15:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Well, It's just a ride to the local Home Depot equivalent. Probably best to avoid too much bubble wrap if other things are available | [15:58] |
| asciilifeform: | will cross-post here for FG owners : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-27#1002772 | [16:05] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-27 asciilifeform: attn all FG owners : the legacy documentation, incl. all sources/sigs, is henceforth preserved here. | [16:05] |
| dorion_road: | ty asciilifeform | [16:06] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: the link to your fg page no longer resolves. lemme know plz if that article still on your www and you'd like it fixed. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: mind running a replace of dianacoman.com with ossasepia.com? | [16:08] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ty, worx. will fix in 1s. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | that's the trouble there; when I get a break I'll set up again the redirect for dianacoman.com > ossasepia.com too but atm it's not done. | [16:09] |
| asciilifeform: | fixed. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | thanks | [16:09] |
| asciilifeform: | verified, all links to FG user www's presently result. even that of esthlos, who sank into sea. | [16:10] |
| asciilifeform: | *resolve | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, I rather wish esthlos made it back. | [16:11] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Nov-2019#1011570 – sorry, missed ack'ing this. Def still on the lookout for other things, just that time is tight. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-27 15:58:08 BingoBoingo: jfw: Well, It's just a ride to the local Home Depot equivalent. Probably best to avoid too much bubble wrap if other things are available | [16:18] |
| jfw: | to grab a bite then write up some updates on wallet. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: mind setting a znc somewhere? it's getting rather annoying. | [17:00] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: apologies. I am actually connected via a znc via a machine at a colo. I can /part until I figure out why my colo's connection is so bad. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | huh, that's a weird connection at colo then; what colo is that? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: and btw, how's it going? it's been quite a while. | [17:03] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: datanoc.com is ther colo. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | well, now datanoc.com is in the logs for poor connection, lolz. | [17:07] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: In terms of getting to figuring out what's next, my blog is in much better shape – backups working, weird redirect bug fixed, text selection linking working. Also I wrote an image upload script that works well. I updated the pics in the hawaii post with it. Now I just need to do the hard part … which is to start writing an article about how to move on and be useful. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: sounds good; looking forward to that article then. | [17:11] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I have contacted my colo about the disconnections. If I don't get a satisfactory answer from them today, I will leave this channel until I can get a better connection somewhere. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [17:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mid/EOD report : Today's saltmine grind got interrupted because surfpal sold the car and wanted to buy some btc. I took the opportunity to go meet him and got a wad of cash so I can order my computer parts tomorrow. I have 3.5hrs left of saltmines for today/the week, I am going to spend the rest of the day finishing those hours and revising my orders so I can make all the necessary deposits when I go to town tomorrow. | [19:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Nov 2019
| whaack: | For tomorrow's unexpected task list: I have a strange error that prevents me from saving drafts of articles on ztkfg. The error is some datetime value is getting set to 0000-00-00 00:00:00. My servers clock / date function seem to be working, and in the error log it shows some fields with the date/time set correctly. | [00:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: oh, so you'll be able to get them from cr after all? not ba | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | not bad* | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | hm, haven't seen that wp error before but look at the part doing the insert and figure out why it ends up pushing 0000 ; is there some conversion to gmt that fails or what? | [03:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, looks like I'll be able to get everything I need here. (minus the hard drive + thermal paste thimbronion is bringing.) | [08:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok I will investigate the blog bug later today after my TODOs are done. | [08:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds ok. | [08:45] |
| asciilifeform: | ty diana_coman for writing your review. | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | np | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | I keep my promises. | [14:15] |
| asciilifeform: | a+++ diana_coman . ( plz see also comment. ) | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | answered. | [14:53] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: is it possible to put links in the comments on your www ? standard syntax ? | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes | [15:00] |
| asciilifeform: | ty | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | it will go to modqueue so have a bit of patience until I get to publish it, that's all. | [15:00] |
| dorion_road: | hi diana_coman , good evening. mind giving me an !!up in #t ? | [15:02] |
| dorion_road: | (or anyone else who's willing and able.) | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, BingoBoingo was faster. | [15:05] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: answr'd | [15:16] |
| dorion_road: | I'd appreciate another !!up in #t, por favor. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you are up, lol | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-26#1953609 <- dorion_road | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-26 diana_coman: !!up dorion_road | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha dorion_road ; fine, let him off the hook there. | [15:47] |
| dorion_road: | ah, scrolled past and this road terminal isn't scrolling up. haven't yet dug into why. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | so use a logs window if you are otherwise likely to miss stuff. | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | ok | [15:55] |
| whaack: | The only decent PCU I could find in stock in a CR store was Seasonic Focus PLUS 850 Gold . Is this one alright? I can pay a little more and wait for an order for my original Corsair RM850x | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so compare them and figure it out | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | can't even open that page on this machine really. | [17:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is an awful website..maybe a red flag in and of itself. | [17:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: And yes I am doing my own research on these parts in addition to asking in chan. If you'd rather I wait and write another blog article with an updated list instead of posting each item in chan individually I can do that as well. | [17:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: As far as I know Seasonic doesn't make bad power supplies. I put a Seasonic in the Qntrabox. The important thing is making sure you have enough plugs coming out of the supply to deliver power to the things you want in the machine. | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not necessarily article but say directly what the issue is that you can't decide yourself | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | eg I looked and they have same characteristics but it's only brand different or that has more power but the other one has … | [17:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay will do. BingoBoingo answered the question I should have made explicit "The specs on this Seasonic Focus Plus 850 Gold look fine, but I have not heard of Seasonic, has anyone had a good/bad experience with one of their PSUs?" | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what does it mean "look fine" ? are they the same /how different from the one you were looking at, previously? | [17:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | The nice to have upgrade is a "modular" supply where you can disconnect cables you don't use to keep them from cluttering your case, but whether that's worth it depends on availability. | [17:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The criteria of 'the specs look fine' were: it has the same wattage, it meets the 80 Plus standard, it has the right size. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: should be all right ; is that same shop you buy the rest of components? | [18:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, from pcgamingcr. Took me a while to hear from them but now I am messaging a responsive sales person. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ftr you should normally look in more detail beyond the total wattage but anyway, both of those PSUs are quite all right from what I se.e | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Right now I am ordering from pcgamingcr and cococo.co.cr. I am trying to cut out bestcomputersa if possible because their point person has been hard to work with and I want to reduce the number of deliveries I may have to pick up. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: makes sense. | [18:07] |
| jfw: | whaack: I have used a Seasonic too without trouble. | [18:08] |
| whaack: | jfw: great to hear! | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: since the tech work got pushed full speed in front, it makes sense to get it all published and be done with that part iirc there's more still waiting, isn't there? | [18:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: there is, and makes sense | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | the likelihood being ofc that once that's done there will be yet another pile of tech pushed happily on but anyways. | [18:16] |
| jfw: | I hear the concern. | [18:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Another question is what is the best investment to make regarding a UPS. Taking what I learned from attempting to buy a car, I figure I want a UPS that has easy-to-find battery replacements. cococo.co.cr carries ~only APC's, a brand which you've used a unit from successfully for 6 years, but asciilifeform said he 'had many headaches' with. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you certainly DO want to be able to find battery replacements, yes; (though it should be quite a few years until you need to replace the battery). | [18:20] |
| jfw: | whaack, fwiw I've been fine with APC BackUPS units. My current failed one is a cheapo Forza. | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | I still have APCs, too. | [18:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | I've only heard bad things about Forza UPS systems | [18:39] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack et al : my observation is that it is less important which vendor, but that you get a ~rack~-type unit (regardless of whether for rack or desk.) these tend to be made solidly (i.e. w/ actual forced air cooling, and 24/7 inverter sinusoid rather than 'on demand' crapola) and use arrays of ~standard~ 12v gel cells that you can buy ~anywhere on planet | [18:45] |
| asciilifeform: | konsoomer ups tends to use proprietary (or at least hard-to-find) 'cartridge' rather than standard lead-acid thing w/ simple iron '+'/'-' contacts | [18:45] |
| asciilifeform: | e.g. my particular historic favourite takes 4 x 12v 9A/hr cells, sold around world (for e.g. alarm systems) . | [18:48] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-20 19:47:08 asciilifeform: diana_coman: for ~decade nao i use several 'liebert' GXT2-1000RT120 (on diff comps), they work a++ (so long as you remember to buy new cells erry 2-3y) ; formerly apc (of simil. size) , w/ apc had many headaches. | [18:48] |
| asciilifeform: | the other thing you get from 'industrial' ups is ability to expand (has lugs on the back for 48v) , on konsoomer units is absent, given as normally they do not in fact have proper cooling and so not rated to run for >15m or whatever the internal cell permits | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: do note that he is building his *first* computere there | [18:50] |
| asciilifeform: | lastly — may be obv. to thinking folx, but do not use automobile battery indoors, no matter how cheap & tempting. vents h2. | [18:50] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: right. but asked re ups, so i'd like to put on record. | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | sure, thanks. | [18:51] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: apc co. is sometimes derisively called among dc folx 'american potato company' — but may be a cruel libel, my dislike for'em is entirely from having used the cheapo konsoomer line in '90s. for all i know, their high end items are reasonably solid. | [18:56] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-26#1002767 in case missed . | [18:58] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-26 asciilifeform: jfw: your crate has been sent. tracking # in pgpgram. | [18:58] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: uhm, he even acknowledged, no/ | [18:59] |
| ossabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-26 jfw: asciilifeform: will do. | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [18:59] |
| jfw: | ^ :) | [18:59] |
| asciilifeform: | aa damn. | [19:00] |
| asciilifeform: | nm then. | [19:00] |
| asciilifeform: | too many terminals, not enuff eyes. | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | even eyes don't scale | [19:00] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform and diana_coman: Alright. Just got off the phone with cococo.co.cr to confirm what UPS's they ~actually~ have. I am choosing between the 50 APC-Smart-UPS-1500VA-LCD and the ,000 rac kAPC Smart-UPS 3000VA LCD RM 2U 120V | [19:18] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: these prices seem imho to have an extra 0 in'em. but tbf i've never once bought such a thing 'new in box'. | [19:19] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack et al : is there no such thing as 2ndhand iron market in all of cr ?? | [19:21] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: hanbot said she's had little success apart from craigslist | [19:22] |
| ossabot: | (trilema-hanbot) 2019-11-10 hanbot: i never had much luck with the whole mercadolibre/online marketplace side of things there, with the exception of craigslist of all things, which has occasionally been useful for trading with gringos. | [19:22] |
| asciilifeform: | naturally you ~will~ want fresh 12v cells in yours. but e.g. my 'liebert' was built in 1990s and still runs (swapped 3 fans in last 10y, admittedly, and of course cells erry 3y. but aside from this, ~eternal) | [19:22] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i would not pay 1000 for item that can be bought in usa for 100 and mailed for 300. but if you need it ~quickly~ (as it seems from thread) you will have to go with what is available. | [19:24] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: I need it soon, but I think I can wait an extra week to save ~00 | [19:25] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: are you able/willing to use dirty heathen payment processors (e.g. 'paypal') ? then can 'ebay' or similar. | [19:26] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Yes I am although it is something that doesn't sit well with me | [19:28] |
| asciilifeform: | if lived in an orcistan where cannot get civilized ups, would do differently : buy atx ps that runs from 12v input, and wire it in parallel w/ a bank of 12v gel cels. entirely as good as ups, w/ the exception of lacking automatic gauge / shutdown trigger. | [19:29] |
| asciilifeform: | if you think about it — it's rather barbaric that folx burn watts on sinusoid inverter to get 120/220v only to then turn it back to 12v dc yer pc ultimately eats | [19:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Rackmount DC power supplies that feed servers 12v direct are a thing I discovered exist back in 2017 when shopping for proto-pizarro. The "how to feed a computer power" rabbit hole can go deep if you let it. | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: i had a chance to see close-up various heavy infrastructural irons in dc. many in fact eat 48v straight from the battery banks. | [19:34] |
| asciilifeform: | this as i understand was also common in the old telephonic world. | [19:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | May have been inherited from telephonics | [19:35] |
| asciilifeform: | it was. and in the old times there was not even such at thing available as a cheap/efficient (i.e. semiconductor) inverter. | [19:36] |
| asciilifeform: | edison's dc grid may not have made sense for new york city, but makes eminent sense inside 1 machine hall. | [19:37] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Nov 2019
| jfw: | Well that might be my record on weekly review length, if not timeliness. Now if I can work that ratchet in the other direction… | [01:58] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo_: got it, will have a look later today, thank you. | [03:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: here's for you to change direction then, courtesy of Kafka himself. | [03:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw and dorion_road you should both have quite a few passes of tech and governance ; not in a hurry nor all of the passes crammed "this week" but gradually until it sticks. | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: see in #t. | [09:15] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Nov-2019#1011334 << Thank you, I'll add it to my weekly reading and make the French passages part of my French practice until it sticks. | [13:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-25 03:56:27 diana_coman: jfw and dorion_road you should both have quite a few passes of tech and governance ; not in a hurry nor all of the passes crammed "this week" but gradually until it sticks. | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: heh, that's from Pascal there. | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | can't go wrong using Pascal for French practice, for sure. | [13:07] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman nice. I'm getting caught up in #t. | [13:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Your server is in Fedex's hands. Will GPGgram you the tracking number in a bit. With a bit more than 12 feet of bubblewrap the package came to an even 15kg on the scale. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: thank you. | [14:36] |
| diana_coman: | that will be interesting to ferry from the not-so-royal post office if it ends up in that middle of nowhere, huh. | [14:39] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: invoice me at your earliest convenience please. | [14:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I rolled it a bit more than 1 km to the fedex office on a hand truck. It was a bit sweaty, but with the padding I'm not concerned about it getting any bumps | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | ah, no worries re that; I was simply picturing myself having to handle the thing, lol; I'll have to draft in a helper. | [14:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Will do. Going to get part of jurov's into the mail and should fire all invoices this evening. | [14:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The dimensions make it a bit awkward, but if you can still lift the child, a couple maneuvers to put the server somewhere are probably doable. The box and bubble wrap make it much easier to grip. | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, child is more like 22kg and still fine, lolz. | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | no worries really. | [14:45] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: didja buy rails ? if not , vendor's 'CSE-PT52L' kit — fits. i've found that e.g. 'dell' rails do not fit 'supermicro' boxen. | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: first I'll have to study this inside out with a cat's curiosity because yes. | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | but there will be rails at some point too, so thank you for the pointer. | [14:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform diana_coman: I managed to break down the rails and make them fit. | [14:46] |
| asciilifeform: | aa, so nm. | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | oh, thank you BingoBoingo | [14:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: I can't recommend Dell rails for anything. The spring loaded locking mechanism they use is way too finicky to choose with any other options at all available. | [14:47] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: like complete idiot, i bought, coupla months ago, 100kg of rails. then only later found, they were 'dell' garbage, fits only ~their~ machines. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | pictures asciilifeform-on-rails | [14:49] |
| asciilifeform: | put this here cuz iirc diana_coman & students making racks, so perhaps can learn from asciilifeform's mistake. apol. for spam if uninteresting . | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: ah, don't take it that way please; no spam at all and thank you. | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, it is interesting. | [14:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: How they fit the Dell Machines is also a pain. It took some reps to get the knack for taking supermicro railed machines in and out of the rack, but once the thumbwork for that clicks in the muscle memory it's a reliable system. | [14:51] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: if you end up wanting own rk cluster, may also find this helpful. (i did promise photos/recipe.) | [14:52] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-17 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you may find interesting the new rk system , mounted last night. | [14:52] |
| asciilifeform: | the shelf in photo is a 'Rising Electronics Fixed Rack Server Shelf 1U', the rails — aluminum standard DIN rails; rivets & screws — M3 . | [14:53] |
| diana_coman: | I saw the shiny new RK photo too, looked very cool; tbh my reserve re RK is re ARM ie why do I need ARM given that it's also not exactly free (eg GNAT still no-worky) | [14:53] |
| asciilifeform: | this is entirely tru, diana_coman , afaik no one yet found a pill for that gnat bug on arm64. | [14:54] |
| asciilifeform: | until found, they're only good for 'lamp' & similar. | [14:54] |
| asciilifeform: | ( for thread-completeness — the dc power supply is this chinese item, 'Mixilin 2019 60 port'. ~100 $. there are many vendors making similar. ) | [14:57] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ ps of course dun come w/ a din clamp, but it does come apart and then bottom drilled & riveted to clamp. sits as if glued, and good thermal conduct. | [15:03] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: attempting a rough translation of the kafka: | [16:40] |
| jfw: | "Ach", said the mouse, "the world narrows with every day. First it was so wide that I was afraid; I ran further and was lucky to finally see right and left to the far walls; but these long walls are rushing so fast to join together, that I'm already in the last room, and there in the corner stands the trap I'm running into." / "You need only alter your direction of running", said the cat, and ate | [16:41] |
| jfw: | her. | [16:41] |
| dorion_road: | thanks for the update in #t jfw. My 21:30 meeting was moved up, headed afk for a couple hours now. | [16:41] |
| jfw: | alright good luck. Working on reply to wallet comments too. | [16:42] |
| dorion_road: | cool. | [16:42] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: want to tackle the French for me? :) | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: translation works! | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | "and was lucky" -> "and was happy" | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | glucklich is a false cognate there, not lucky. | [17:29] |
| jfw: | huh. I left it as a proper comment too btw. | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | comment published | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | ach would be oh maybe? or if you go for full feeling there perhaps alas! | [17:32] |
| jfw: | could work. With glucklich I wasn't going entirely by cognate, looks like it can be 'fortunate', and there's 'frohlich' for happy; I do see 'happy' fitting better in the sentence though. | [17:35] |
| jfw: | Using dict.cc , don't have a proper all-DE dictionary handy. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | do you speak German? | [17:37] |
| jfw: | Nicht sehr gut aber ich studierte in der Schule. | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | pas mal. | [17:38] |
| jfw: | aber le francais nein. | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | any other languages? | [17:40] |
| jfw: | besides the spanish nothing serious | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | eh, doesn't need to be "serious", what. | [17:44] |
| jfw: | heh, well then, there was some Esperanto (lolz) a while back; then I did some basic level audio courses in a couple: Cantonese (before I decided on Panama), Hungarian (part of the family came from there), an' Romanian (because Trilema) | [17:49] |
| jfw: | Also studied Greek and Cyrillic script / pronunciation. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | so can you read those? | [17:51] |
| jfw: | sound out, kinda; not understand. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, after the first 10 languages or so, it gets very easy :)) | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | but I gather it's you I should throw the Ro-blocks of text at, notes. | [17:53] |
| jfw: | heh, I'd give 'em a shot. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | now looks wtf is wrong with that old comment that is out of place in there. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, you should publish that Gales & docs too (I heard you have very good docs, yay!). | [18:32] |
| jfw: | Will do diana_coman, and we'll see how the docs measure up. | [18:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD / midday report. 6.5 hour of saltmines complete, i have to go drop off the car right now which is going to take me a little over 2 hours, when I get back I will do 2 hours of work related to ordering parts. | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [19:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Of course 5 seconds after I send that message surfpal messages saying he will meet me much closer. I now have 1 hour before I have to leave for about 1 hour. I will get started on ordering parts. | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | that surfpal of yours is expert at wasting your time really. | [19:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I don't deny that but I was still grateful to have this change of plans. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | at least so far it seems it might work for the best, yes. | [19:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Is the Dell P2419H [https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/accessories/apd/210-aqdx?mkwid=sQNLKHVIV&pcrid=396949429362&pkw=\%2Bp2419h&pmt=b&pdv=c&slid=&product=&pgrid=81127580801&pgrid=81127580801&ptaid=kwd-506909789223&ptaid=kwd-506909789223&VEN1=sQNLKHVIV,396949429362,901q5c14135,c,,,81127580801,kwd-506909789223&VEN1=sQNLKHVIV,39694942936 | [19:32] |
| whaack: | 2,901q5c14135,c,,,81127580801,kwd-506909789223&VEN2=b,\%2Bp2419h&VEN2=b,\%2Bp2419h&cid=312883082&cid=312883082&lid=59900160328&lid=59900160328&dgc=st&dgc=st&dgseg=bsd&dgseg=so&acd=12309152537461010&st=\%2Bp2419h&gclid=CjwKCAiAlO7uBRANEiwA_vXQ-846ZpjYhQcC3XpMyOHUF5Uq1dxYr8QQaVynMJ-PnyH5_yW6Docr-RoC4cUQAvD_BwE&VEN3=810105206369641399][specs: 24', 1980×1080 at 60hz, 8ms response, swivel to portrait available] an acceptable monitor to ord | [19:32] |
| whaack: | er? | [19:32] |
| whaack: | sorry for that atrocious link. | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | lolz. | [19:35] |
| diana_coman: | sounds ok re usual basic characteristics but monitors are a matter of personal preference & use really. | [19:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have some good news. I heard back from pcgamingcr. They have the fx-8350 + a GA-970A-UD3P rev 2 mother board + Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB video card. The mother board and video card seem to acceptable replacements to the ones I had chosen, I will give them a second review tomorrow morning. | [23:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: you may go, yes. | [04:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you're welcome; glad to see you got the deedbot wallet issue sorted too. | [04:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why was your review post with "no comments allowed"? did you set that up or did something get cut/messed up at publishing time or what happened? (I fixed the comments part meanwhile.) | [04:28] |
| diana_coman: | and glad to see the reading of An Outpost of Progress was not lost on you. | [04:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: weird, not sure how that happened. Only thing I can think of is I tabbed out of the focus of the editor at one point by accident, so I may have tabbed into the checkbox and toggled it. I don't think this is the case though. | [07:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: MP had once this trouble when the connection cut so not all the article got published/something was messed up; anyways, not a big issue now but keep an eye on it/check after publishing. | [07:34] |
| diana_coman: | and well done for this week, enjoy your surfing! | [07:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: That sounds much more likely. At one point only half my post got saved, I would have lost the other half if I didn't have a local copy. | [07:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and tyvm! | [07:38] |
| dorion_road: | good afternoon/evening #o. I'm back from the wilderness with a stable net; to start processing the responses I owe. | [13:37] |
| diana_coman: | wb to civilisation dorion_road | [13:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do I gather the half-hour evening planning worked well? | [13:45] |
| dorion_road: | thank you diana_coman, it was refreshing and it's good to be back. | [13:46] |
| jfw: | welcome back dorion_road, did you bring home any prizes? | [15:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: indeed it was a relief to have deedbot sorted. | [15:14] |
| jfw: | re evening planning working – not so well as regards saving time | [15:15] |
| jfw: | I think I wasn't focused or active enough with it; should have written down thoughts or questions or plans | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ofc writing them down, huh; did you just …what exactly? | [15:18] |
| jfw: | re-read the previous articles and outlined points, thought about it | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | but nothing for next day or what was the problem? | [15:20] |
| jfw: | nothing that I could just pick up and start the flow at any rate | [15:20] |
| jfw: | I found myself enjoying it once it did get started | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | did it take that long to get started? | [15:22] |
| jfw: | about half an hour. | [15:22] |
| dorion_road: | <jfw> welcome back dorion_road, did you bring home any prizes? << if you count material for an article a prize then yes; other than that, I filled no tags nor fired my rifle. | [15:23] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: you got what I meant but I'd say material counts too! | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | hm; do prepare better in the evening, that's what that half hour is for + it gives you some time to think it through really; but also, if you really need for now half hour to get started, factor it in and write 1.5hours or something; just don't end up making this "get started" longer and longer because there is more time or something. | [15:24] |
| jfw: | indeed that's a trap I have to be careful of. | [15:25] |
| jfw: | and will keep at the evening prep. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [15:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I believe I solved the problem of how to pad your server to build a box around. Will GPGtarball you photos and attempt to get it to Fedex tomorrow, weather permitting. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: works, thank you; at any rate, there's no hurry or anything. | [18:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: http://aaronrogier.net/dcboxprep.tar.gz.gpg << Only two good pics. Feel free to publish at your leisure or keep for your private comparison with what arrives. | [19:34] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: I was focused today in the sense that my ass was on the chair & again I did not indulge in nonsense (although I admit I took 30 mins on the guitar to watch the sunset.) That said I think I am 'spinning' throughout the day at various points since I still did not get much done. I knocked out four hours of saltmines, and had a conversation with bestcomputersa that turned out less than ideal. I tried to follow | [00:10] |
| whaack: | up with them about what other parts they have / could they send me some list since their website is out of date. They said yes they would but never got back to me. I have another lead pcgamingcr.com that I emailed and will call tomorrow. The best thing I walk away with today was probably having read hanbot's translation of mp's article. | [00:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I see. What's the situation there with your computer parts ie now you have some that go with a processor you can't find or what exactly? | [05:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Bestcomputersa does not have the video card, motherboard, nor graphics card I picked. So essentially the components that depend most on each other are all missing. | [08:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I went through the motherboards on pcgamingcr, none of them as far as I can tell support the fx 8350 so I would not be surprised if they also do not have the processor despite listing it on their website (i tried calling but their "24/7" support is a meaningless sticker they place on their site) | [08:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: So looks like I will have to either switch to the ryzen series (my understanding is that decision means paying a little more to be a beta tester on less 'pure' hardware) or go back to plan A of ordering from the states. | [09:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will speak with the three companies (pcgamingcr.com, cococo.co.cr, and bestcomputersa.com) on the phone today to get a better idea of my options. Bestcomputersa did say they had an fx-8000 so I might see if I can find a compatible motherboard/video card and go with that option. | [09:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [09:33] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: this not-quite-morning's article was late because I ran over time. I realized I wasn't clear on where the overall thing was going, so took some time to work on that. It seems I'm not at a point where the background thinking gets much done while in the background. | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, that part takes time too esp since it sounds otherwise like you have a lot of practice in making sure it doesn't happen that way, lol. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | if you keep going over 1 hour though, try maybe half hour in the evening to plan *something* and then 1 hour in the morning to write on that. | [16:08] |
| jfw: | Otherwise: dorion is stuck on a fondleslate because the supposed campsite power supply didn't deliver. I'd let him be except that I have to clarify what wallet expectations actually are in light of http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/next-steps-in-wallet-planning/#comment-42 | [16:08] |
| jfw: | sounds good, I'll try that. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so can you get hold of him to clarify on the wallet or not? | [16:11] |
| jfw: | Yes but unreliably. I'm planning to email the clients, though they're traveling as well | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | tbh I'd much rather incline at this stage to *not* change the plans now but you do need to talk to him and agree if that's the best way forward atm or not. | [16:14] |
| jfw: | aha, was my inclination too | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | is it perhaps a problem to have next year some "version 2" ? | [16:16] |
| jfw: | no; though I think his concern is trying to get the plan right the first time so as not to have to redo things | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | eh, that he won't ~ever get, lol. | [16:18] |
| jfw: | heh, and the v1 would be instructive in further planning I expect | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | it's more important to not get it catastrophically/fundamentally wrong, that's about it. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | that said, there IS a cost to having clients change versions though | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | hence my question above whether this is a potential problem or to what extent | [16:20] |
| jfw: | I'll add that to the list to clarify with them. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that is more to clarify with dorion really; they won't *know* to tell you exactly, how could they? | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you'll get an answer if you ask but … | [16:21] |
| jfw: | On reviewing the trilema wallet articles he linked, it looks like I've covered most of the points, except for things like better accounting functions and programmable input selection, which I'd think can be added later once better specified | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | so then it sounds like best to get v1 working really. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, there is that thing: fewer questions to the clients, it's enough that they pay for it!! | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:24] |
| jfw: | "they won't *know* to tell you exactly" – indeed, I'll keep the pressure on him then :D | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | heh, have fun. | [16:25] |
| jfw: | Do you have any thoughts on plain-text representation of structured data – S-expressions vs JSON and so on? (I wouldn't touch XML if I don't have to, lol) | [16:26] |
| jfw: | Know if there's a preferred standard in Ada-land? | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I am not aware of an Ada standard as such; thinking of it now, I would expect it's not a huge headache to implement either really but I haven't spent the time to consider/compare why one or the other. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose it depends on what you want you want to interface with further really | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | I'll be awk for a while. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | ah sorry. Indeed, depends on what you want to connect it to. They can be easier to implement too if you pick a subset, of course that has its downsides too. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | calls to mind the discussions of whether there can be one all-purpose OS, or all-purpose libraries for that matter, or every app has to be its own special thing | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: thing is, you are not really either aiming to or in a position to enforce a standard through this wallet implementation. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | sure, do NOT go for xml! lolz | [17:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what would that imply here – that I should at least be picking an existing standard? | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it implies that whatever you choose now may still need to change later if it turns out that the preferred/final standard is a different one | [17:37] |
| jfw: | was I a pain again with the not acknowledging back there btw? perhaps still need to remind myself of the basic etiquette. | [17:37] |
| jfw: | mm ok | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I simply had no idea if you got/read that or not; it does make for a bit of funny stuff as it is a matter of basic feedback, yeah. | [17:39] |
| jfw: | noted then. | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but as far as I understood the situation now, the focus was on getting a *working* version that keeps to republican fundamentals and that hopefully you can further iterate upon as you gain experience with your biz. | [17:41] |
| jfw: | that's right | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, I'm also not that sure that dorion's point was re getting it perfect now or something, eg "sufficiently extensive talks upfront and relatively less time coding than a brief terse exachange and longer than expected coding time." – this reads to me more like making sure it's clear what is to implement and how long it will take ie clarifying not perfecting. | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | then again, you talked to him, not me. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: put it also the other way: if you had this one extra month, what do you think would be delivered additionally? | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | give him the options: this month like this or in January like that. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | I answered the "sufficiently extensive" point but he didn't quite clarify that I saw; perhaps I'm indeed over-interpreting. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | sigh; /me goes to read your talk there. | [17:48] |
| jfw: | what would be delivered additionally is something that's perhaps received more input from the wider republic – although it's possible that such feedback can't be accomodated by January, e.g. if it's to rewrite in Ada or something | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that's not something feasible on that scale by end of January, no; and do NOT even think of re-writing it now because you can get an extension, GAH. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: he said correctly " What gaps remain ? What questions arise now in reading these articles ? Let's go ahead and leave our questions as comments on those articles." – that's about as much additional feedback you can get and then see if it squeezes through in this implementation; so: any questions there? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: tbh I think he stated there quite clearly for each point what next so not sure what is left other than the above ie if there are further gaps and/or questions on the fundamentals there | [17:54] |
| jfw: | fair enough; I didn't see any big questions on the fundamentals, more on the details. Can check if there's anything that can be asked in the context of the articles. | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | and this "evaluate the usage within the context of the skills they either already had or are building through working with us" – so how well does this v1 fit what your clients learnt to use? to what extent would pushing the deadline to January increase this fit? | [17:55] |
| jfw: | I don't see it increasing the fit, they'd be learning something new building on existing skills either way. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I thought you two were better at talking to one another, huh. | [17:56] |
| jfw: | we or at least I might be struggling a bit with the more async form | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | so then tell him all that ie 1. fundamentally it's aligned and fine, will check details today/tomorrow and see if there are further clarifications to ask for at those articles 2. not much to gain in extending the deadline as v1 of the wallet as it is would be a reasonable fit and either way they would still be learning something new (though ahem, do note that there are *degrees* there ie how much of a leap) | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | 3. can iterate in principle more usefully once this version is out and in use (if that's the idea). | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I think I covered there main points but see if there's anything else you had in mind. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I spoke with bestcomputersa and they informed me actually they do have ~one~ fx-8350 left. But they have no motherboard that supports it. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not much use by itself, hm. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so none of the local shops actually have all the components you wanted? | [18:03] |
| jfw: | thank you diana_coman; I will review the points. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: cococo did not and I have not heard back from pcgamingcr | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you have something more concrete re Jan delivery, add that eg if we push the deadline to January, we can also have this and that that might/might not make it slightly/not at all/a lot easier for clients to learn/use/whatever. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so at this point your options are either order parts from the US or otherwise change plans and build a ryzhen system, correct? | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and you know, reply to his points there eg will do etc. | [18:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Now that I know bestcompuersa has one fx-8350, i am checking to see if i can find any compatible motherboard in the other shops | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's risky because this sort of "have one" is dubious at best | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | what if in the end they..don't have it? or it's defective? or whatevers? | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what was the main problem with ordering from the US? the customs? | [18:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The experience for my test package was very smooth. The worry with ordering from US was extra trouble with customs for a bunch of electric parts + the lithium batteries on the motherboard. | [18:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The lithium battery on the montherboard is usually just a 2032 coin cell. It's the rechargables that usually cause trouble | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then look at most for the motherboard locally but other than that, it would seem that you'll need to find out the hard way how it works with the customs; aren't there any agents doing this service? also: can't any of those shops *order* the stuff for you? | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | did you ask them? | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | ie fine, they don't have them; can they order for you the list you give them? | [18:11] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: will review & ack *all* the points then, right. | [18:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I asked bestcomputersa and they said their provider does not supply them anymore | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | (though I have to admit that they sound infuriating already) | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as I was saying: infuriating; lolz; I'd say look into ordering from the US, it is what it is. | [18:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes it is one guy I have spoken with and it is a pain to communicate with him. Apparently he found this extra fx-8350, but he did not tell me until I called. I think I err'd early in the conversation by letting out a sigh and saying that the out of date website cost me a bunch of time. | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't recall: did you look for/were there any forwarding agents? | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | or was it through one of those that you ordered that test delivery? | [18:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was investigating them, but then when hanbot gave me the list of stores I dropped it and just sent one test package through boxcorreos – the one recommended by locals here. Everything went A+ smooth | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | so then try them further, why not | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do investigate if there are others and/or which ones though, not like you can't use a backup option if at all possible. | [18:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Heh okay I will send a test package through another service as well. That said if I get 00 worth of equipment jammed in customs through boxcorreos I'm going to be pretty hesitant to try again with another one. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but anyway, the investigation of other agents is task on the list for the future, not like you won't have *other* stuff to order, I'm sure. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you get it jammed, you unjam it, no? | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | and that doesn't quite parse/make sense there: so if those fail, you won't try ….others? why/how? | [18:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have a bad experience of going to Guatemala for a local artist to pick up four bags of Flor De Madera, a wood that is distorted through fungal growth. The customs agents took all four bags and torched the wood because we didn't have a paper saying that it was treated. | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, those test packages might also not test all that much because different stuff, significantly different value from what I understand so …it's a very basic test, more along the lines of "do they actually do this thing *at all*"? I can see why even that needs testing, sure, but I wouldn't then take it to mean too much if they passed that. | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: from what I understood, Guatemala is shitty beyond definition ; I can hardly picture ticos torching anything really,lol | [18:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that is so re Guatemala being complete shit | [18:24] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that computer parts are hopefully not distorted through fungal growth so maybe there's a bit less to treated or not treated papers, lolz. | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you must, I suppose you can simply order them in batches but not really sure it's worth it really | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | up to you that part | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mk. I think I would do it in one go. I am only ordering three parts (video card / motherboard / processor) | [18:27] |
| whaack: | at least for now | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right. | [18:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: BioGoop(TM)(R) tends to be what really puts customs agents on alert | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what was the mk for, anyway? | [18:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's the stuff that they get hit hard on when it passes through. Stuff like mysteryexoticwood in the world of border guards is how supertermites and crop blights spread | [18:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah it was to acknowledge the suggestion of ordering them in batches. Maybe I am using mk incorrectly | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: mk!=ok ; mk ~= I don't quite agree but I won't argue/explain now. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | do not copy without knowing what you're copying, ugh. | [18:34] |
| whaack: | I guess I had a notion of that, because that is tangent with what I was trying to say. I.e. I acknowledge the suggestion..but I also don't think it's worth it | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | except if it's "I also", there's no mk, lolz. | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | it's just plain ok ie you agree there, what | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, not a huge thing now. | [18:36] |
| whaack: | lol okay I am not completely unaware of the "mk" I just understand it means different things in different contexts and also based on tonality if it is actually said out loud. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | all right, next time link the sound file :P | [18:39] |
| whaack: | :) | [18:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have been asked to go surfing together by a different surfpal who I have consistently been turning down. May I go surf with him tomorrow morning? | [19:08] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Nov-2019#1011237 << well that was a piece of excuse-making huh. I quite expect there is room for us to improve our communications so thank you diana_coman for exposing some instances on my side. | [20:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-23 17:58:58 jfw: we or at least I might be struggling a bit with the more async form | [20:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Nov 2019
| whaack: | EOD report: Completed all missions during my trip to town: went grocery shopping, got a CR phone so I can tether for backup internet (i am sending this message while connected via the backup phone), picked up my test package from boxcorreos (a 5 uv light inside of a cage that attracts bugs + electrocutes them), and got various household tools / other items from the hardware store. The total time for that process was roughly 6 hou | [01:31] |
| whaack: | rs. I then spent the evening unpacking the items + doing home improvements. | [01:31] |
| whaack: | I've been making some stupid mistakes throughout the day that cost time, for example I put the sim card for the phone in the wrong slot and had to spend 20 minutes fiddling with a toothpick to get it out. However I have not been burning time via activities that I use as escapes while avoiding ongoing problems. | [01:37] |
| jfw: | whaack: nice, how's it feel to have those items unpacked and put to use? | [01:56] |
| whaack: | jfw: quite good. | [02:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well done! | [03:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you are quite spot-on with that comment! | [03:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Thank you. I wore a proper pair of sneakers for the day's activities instead of my usual flip-flops. | [10:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! seriously, flip-flops are fine *for the beach* and only there, lolz. | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: are you getting the computer parts today? | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ha yes and even that is only for the short walk before you get to the sand where they come off. | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to decide asap whether I should make a trip to SJ. If I am not making a trip I can start ordering parts today. | [11:04] |
| diana_coman: | what does that SJ/no SJ depend on? | [11:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to see if I can do a one day trip, come early in the morning, shop, come back same day, for a reasonable price. | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | tbh I thought it was more about whether you can get otherwise everything you need or not, lol; but other than that, I suspect that sooner or later you'll want to at least get once to SJ but perhaps it's easier later on when you get to the point where you can get a car, that might be. | [11:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I've been to SJ before | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | and had enough of it? lol | [11:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha well I never really explored it, just stayed at a friend's apartment for a night before going on a flight to Guatemala | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but from my understanding it is not the nicest area | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I just found out that I can drive Surfpal's car _to_ SJ since it would be convenient for him if I dropped it off there. | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you still need to get somehow back too though. | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | and sleeping in a town != been to town, lol. | [11:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: We did a little bit of exploring. I went to the top of some mountains with windmills that had absolutely gorgeous clouds at eye level | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right, I don't think that having a one way ride there helps me at all. It would be more expensive for me to find a cab back | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | is there any bus maybe? | [11:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: That's something I'd normally pay to avoid, but since I can avoid the bus in one direction it is much more worth it. | [11:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Not that i'm too excited to have my first long drive be from dirt "road" Junquillal to San Jose | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | my sample of CR buses was very small but even so, there was one perfectly fine (long distance though to the Pacific from SJ) and one perfectly horrible, so I can see the pay-to-avoid, certainly; but in that case, if bus is not an option, then you pretty much have no other choice than not to go to SJ, not sure why consider it in the first place. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | there is that too. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | do let me figure this out again: *why* are you even looking into getting to SJ? | [11:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | Down here the long distance busses are a different, nice contrast to the local ones | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that was my take on CR too; though after that I saw some "long distance" nightmares-on-wheels too so apparently it's not enough for it to be long distance, lol. | [11:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I suspect there are a variety of operators. Latinas tend to be *very* price sensitive | [11:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My thought was should there be a way to go to SJ it would be nice to avoid having to deal with the delivery and be able to see all the parts before I get them. Getting my chair was a small hassle, I had to be ~at the ready~ for 3 hours to drive to meet the delivery guy on the road on a nearby town. | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, I know how that works; the sort of price-sensitivity that whaack needs to get rid of too. | [11:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: while that sounds lousy, I suspect you'll find you do not really have to be at the ready all that much, if you handle the delivery guys properly; what, are they going to head back if you are not at the ready whenever they happen to drop by anywhere/everywhere ? | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | and dunno but going to SJ for the whole day + time on trip to avoid delivery hassle… uhm. | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | make the delivery more of a hassle for them if they are being idiotic about it than for you, what. | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | also, iirc it was a different company than the one with the chair, no/ | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [11:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: That happened with the chair on the first trip. They came on a Saturday (although they had told me it would be arriving the following Monday) and called with one hour notice, I missed it and thus they took it back lol. | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | well, they can go back and forth with it as much as they like, no? | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | you tell them and agree with them on some specific time window and you don't care about the rest, let them learn or something. | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | I know time is not a Latina concept but still. | [11:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: You're right, the trip to SJ is a lot of work for no reason. I will just get the parts delivered. | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | sensible; and problem sorted too. | [11:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not like the thermal paste is going to cross the Caribean any faster | [11:29] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: thimbronion is helping with that specific item. | [11:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Nice. Still, there's only so much you can do getting some parts locally while others wait on transit. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for that matter, usually this sort of "delivery on an unexpected schedule" tends to rely on "if I don't answer, talk to the neighbours/friends/extended village" and so on so maybe consider that sort of help too; it's among the hassles/benefits of that sort of environment, what can I say. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | has never liked it but not for lack of experience with how it works. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I tried that. The chair company had both my number and my landlord's, and we had a friend who works in a nearby town who they could drop it off with should we not be able to meet them. Unfortunately, all 3 points failed – they couldn't contact me/my landlord and the person who works in the shop in the town was not there that day. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | aha, it happens. | [11:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: But it was not such a big deal. They just came again the next Tuesday. Overall the delivery experience with them + boxcorreos has been better than I had hoped for. | [11:33] |
| BingoBoingo_: | One way Latin thrift manifests is they'll walk around with their cellphone/fondleslab turned on, but habitually turn off the data "para no gastar" | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | aha, so don't avoid it and don't worry about their self-inflicted waste of time, just don't let it infect you too, it's on them. | [11:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Cool. I'll go ahead and try and make a connection with someone working there and start ordering the parts. | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [11:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Misc questions: (1) The big item left that I have not decided on is a monitor. From my understanding the most important aspect is that it has a high refresh rate and has an adjustable height + a swivel to switch to document (portrait) view. Are there other traits I should look for? Is there any point to dual monitor? | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the most important part is that you can fully adjust it to fit your setup ie so as to have a healthy position really; most current monitors now will probably be quite all right re refresh rate tbh; maybe anti-glare can help too; re dual monitor it all depends on your working style and if you don't yet know if you need that, then you ..don't need it yet. | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I never really got along with multiple monitors, it's enough I have to stare at ONE screen; but a reasonably big screen is useful. | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I use to use two monitors… but then I read a thread in #t a while back that talked about how you can't focus on two documents at once anyways so dual monitors really just give another hotkey to alt-tab by moving your eyes. | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | that's pretty much it, yes; that being said, it is true that I do have another monitor in the room but …not on the same desk, not for the same machines and not meant to be used at the same time; given as you are just building your first computer there, I really don't see why you'd need more than 1 monitor | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | (fwiw I even have several computers connected to *same* monitor in one setup). | [11:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: (2) Question two is should I get an anti-static kit or should I just find a strategy / household item solution to keep myself grounded while working on the machine? | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | hm, is that a problem there? | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | I never bothered really for everyday work as such. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, it's not a big deal to ground yourself either way. | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | so get one if you want one, what. | [11:55] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman, whaack : modern irons have fairly good static discharge protection internally. unless your hygrometer's usually below ~30\%, you don't need 1990s-style antistatics . | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform put it more plainly above, yes. | [11:56] |
| whaack: | I didn't think it'd be a problem in CR, but I wanted to double check my basic understanding of static electricity was not off by a negative sign | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: talking of which, you should at least know a bit about your indoors environment esp re humidity for sure. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | brb | [12:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will add tools used to obtain awareness of my surroundings to the list of items for the next hardware store trip. Hygrometer (learned about that device today from asciilifeform's msg) and barometer are the first that come to mind. I will also try to get a wind-direction device (for surfing, i admit). Are there some others I should add? | [12:16] |
| whaack: | and thermometer, of course :D | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | heh; works. | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | won't suggest an astrolabe, lol. | [12:18] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: been struggling with getting thoughts together for the writing this morning. Word count isn't quite there but I'll publish. | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right. | [13:25] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i have a cheapo min/max-tracking thermo/hygrometer in erry room which i inhabit or in which store valuable equip. rec to erryone. | [13:26] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: re: >1 display — must agree w/ diana_coman , folx who don't have a pre-existing serious reason for >1 display, oughta stick w/ buying 1 high quality screen | [13:33] |
| jfw: | Recursive loop analogies… you know how I think! | [14:48] |
| jfw: | gah, paste fail. | [14:48] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Nov-2019#1011078 – was glad to hear it. | [14:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-22 03:49:10 diana_coman: jfw: you are quite spot-on with that comment! | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you're welcome. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the work on the wallet going? | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so… I come in shame to admit a fuckup. After contacting bestcomputersa I learned that what they list on their website has nothing to do with what they have in stock. If I were to categorize this fuckup I would say it is an example of throwing a pebble. Because their site said they had the product available I pretended I could move forward with that assumption. I will be slow to respond for a bit, I am stating this no | [15:40] |
| whaack: | w so as to confess my sins immediately upon realizing them. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: gah, mk; listen, they are not amazon and the like so *call* them. | [15:42] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: going alright I think; though in working on time estimates, reviewing the code, and thinking further through the data structures and flow, I identified some details that weren't in the plan | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | heh; who could have predicted!!11 | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | all right; do shout if it gets out of hand/in trouble though, ok? | [16:17] |
| jfw: | I believe I predicted it myself! and will do. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [16:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: certainly. The the correct course of action should have been seen then, and it is very easy to see now. They faltan the processor, motherboard, and video card. For processors they said they only carry the ryzen series now, but they do have an fx-8000. | [16:30] |
| hanbot: | whaack ugh, what a pain. i can't help but feel a little culpable by way of steering you there –i've always bought from them in person, and didn't realize they were doing the whole "stock list –in theory" thing. when you call, you might ask 'em if they'll order parts *for* you. | [19:34] |
| whaack: | hanbot: yes it's a pain but I should have shot them a quick email confirming they had the processor before picking the rest of the components around it. I have already spoken with them and they said they checked and their provider no longer has fx – 8350's | [23:15] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Nov 2019
| jfw: | diana_coman, your blog front page renders but articles all seem to be 404, e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/14/amito-data-centre-in-reading-uk/ | [00:25] |
| jfw: | mod_rewrite config I'd guess. | [00:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report – Writing the backup scripts took a bit of time because I had to pay a lot of unix debt along the way. I have the basic design you laid out here with steps a,b,c. done. I still have some questions about how the file's permissions + group + owner are copied over that I will investigate later. I need to make projections as t | [02:00] |
| whaack: | o how long before my hard drive fills up, and also exactly what it is on my local computer I want to save. Lastly, I need to do a dry run of recovering my blog to make sure everything is in order. | [02:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for the '2h of planning for the hardware store / listing comp parts' i didn't get to do that w/ a specific block of time. But I did make progress on that front earlier in the day w/ speaking to the carpenter + the figuring out the ssd for my comp. Continuing work on this is my first priority for tomorrow morning before I head to town. | [02:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Nov-2019#1010996 – should be fixed now, thanks! | [03:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-21 00:25:15 jfw: diana_coman, your blog front page renders but articles all seem to be 404, e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/14/amito-data-centre-in-reading-uk/ | [03:39] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Nov-2019#1010999 – good idea | [03:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-21 02:00:08 whaack: o how long before my hard drive fills up, and also exactly what it is on my local computer I want to save. Lastly, I need to do a dry run of recovering my blog to make sure everything is in order. | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | hello Jeff78 | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | ask in here Jeff78 | [03:43] |
| Jeff78: | Sure | [03:43] |
| Jeff78: | Can you tell me about to goal of ossasepia. and the platform on ossasepia.com? | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: this chan is basically the forum/discussion place/direct interaction for my YH (http://younghands.club/) project | [03:45] |
| diana_coman: | you can read the story on YH starting with http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/03/growing-young-hands/ (do note that you might need the IP directly for my blog 85.25.134.66 ) | [03:46] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: as to platform, what do you mean? ossasepia.com simply runs a customised version of wordpress really | [03:47] |
| diana_coman: | (as does younghands.club for that matter) | [03:47] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: how did you find this place? | [03:47] |
| Jeff78: | I've indeed read the part on younghandsclub. It difficult for me to understand though. | [03:47] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: there is a lot to it; but just ask further then; what are you stuck on? | [03:48] |
| Jeff78: | I will start of with reading the article here | [03:49] |
| Jeff78: | http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/03/growing-young-hands/ | [03:49] |
| Jeff78: | The reason I'm interested in your project is because I saw the domain eventix.de is directed to your project. I've started my own business recently after I graduated. To take it of the ground in germany I would be in need of the domain that is now pointing to your website. Would you be open to an offer from my side? | [03:50] |
| Jeff78: | If you actually using it thats fine too. I'll have to find another name haha ;) | [03:50] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: you might want to have a look at what others figured out too and/or the road they took to here, eg on their blogs | [03:51] |
| diana_coman: | eventix.de ? no idea | [03:51] |
| diana_coman: | lolz; what is this project about? | [03:52] |
| Jeff78: | Hahaha, did you see the redirect? | [03:52] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: I just switched IPs recently so it's possibly an old record somewhere | [03:52] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: I tend to ignore DNS and simply set the IPs in hosts file so not exactly bothered with all that | [03:53] |
| Jeff78: | Hmm that could be it. I was amazed because it didn't ooint anywhere a few weeks ago | [03:53] |
| Jeff78: | If people know where to find you IPs are fine haha :) | [03:53] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: so what's the project you are working on ? | [03:53] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, the people around here know and do; they are quite…knowing, like that. It's a bit the whole point around here, you know | [03:54] |
| Jeff78: | We're developing a ticket solution for cultural organisations to be able to sell their tickets without having to deal with high fees from companies such as ticketmaster. | [03:54] |
| Jeff78: | So I've had an interest in tracking the domain owner, but the whois records are set to anonymous | [03:55] |
| Jeff78: | So you're my only lead lol | [03:55] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: heh, the technical solution exists already really; there's a bot around those parts that does invoicing and payments and all that | [03:55] |
| Jeff78: | I know we're not the only one, but we aim to be the only free one :p | [03:55] |
| diana_coman: | to not have to pay high fees to ticketmaster and other similar slave-masters (because that's what they are), it's the people in those organisations you need to develop, not technical solutions | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | they are in that poor situation because they don't know better, not because they don't have more tools really | [03:56] |
| Jeff78: | Oh definetely the technical solution is never the only part. You need to educate people. | [03:57] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: the bot here is free, you know? but yes, it's free *not for anyone* and if you don't mind me saying it, the "free for everyone" approach is an extremely poor choice. | [03:58] |
| Jeff78: | Do you have any idea of what was hosted on the ip before? Maybe that will give me a lead to the owner of the domain. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: trouble is: what do you plan to educate them about/on? | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: I have no idea but apparently that eventix thing was hosted there before,no? | [03:59] |
| Jeff78: | uhm, probably just pointed here. | [03:59] |
| Jeff78: | There was never really a website | [03:59] |
| Jeff78: | Its just some domain squatter. | [03:59] |
| diana_coman: | well, I don't mind it,lolz. | [04:00] |
| Jeff78: | But the ip probably hosted more websites by the same owner | [04:00] |
| Jeff78: | Thanks for your help anyway | [04:00] |
| Jeff78: | And for your interest in what im working on. | [04:00] |
| diana_coman: | no problem; maybe find some time and read around a bit, you might find more than you came asking for :D | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | that's what I do around here: taking an interest in who people are and what they are working on; it reportedly… helps them. | [04:01] |
| dorion_road: | waves from vermont. | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | that's a long wave! good to see you made it though. | [11:06] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks. fog cancelled the afternoon flight from boston, ended up renting a driver to make the ~4 hour drive instead. got in later, but had had a nice conversation on the drive with a fellow traveler and made a connection so it worked out. | [11:11] |
| dorion_road: | to get caught up on log/blog reading. | [11:13] |
| dorion_road: | also, there's snow on the ground here, so that was nice to arrive to :) | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | enjoy! | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. Is there a specific type of thermal paste I should buy? Is the arctic mx4 an acceptable option? I am planning to get 2 4gram tubes of these. | [12:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That's probably a fine choice. Artic silver also probably a fine choice, but it is electrically conductive so gotta be very careful where it goes. When I do laptop heatsinks I usually use one of the artic ceramic pastes. | [12:35] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Cool, I will use the mx-4 then and be very careful where it goes regardless. | [12:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | More tubes of smaller size is better. You'll be using very little of it infrequently, so the next time you want to apply thermal grease it may be better to open the second tube instead of using the first again. I base this around the assumption thermal grease is a sort of glue and "bottle open time" is the enemy of shelf life. | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's fine,yes; but buy small tubes, you won't need a ton for one single computer. | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | ah, BingoBoingo already said it, huh; thank you BingoBoingo ! | [12:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | The most important thing is following the instructions. They vary by thermal grease. | [12:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: You're welcome. | [12:41] |
| whaack: | alright, I will get 4x 2g tubes. | [12:45] |
| whaack: | (the smallest size I see available on amazon) | [12:46] |
| jfw: | waves but will be pretty well tied up today. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | no worries. | [15:04] |
| jfw: | I look forward to your feedback on today's article and any direction for tomorrow's; a similar treatment of the WoT series would be my assumption. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for tomorrow pick better something from your original plan http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/planned-articles-as-of-october-2019/?b=something&e=#select | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | and do write it in the morning please. | [18:51] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: I believe I should also keep backups of my younghands posts. I am considering writing a script that just saves the html outputs because I imagine you have backups of younghands in its source form, and my use of the backups should younghands explode would be to review my weekly progress. I.e. it is not ideal but not the end of the world if I can't easily reconstruct a portion of the wp site. If I should go about backing | [02:13] |
| whaack: | up younghands in another way, please let me know. | [02:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you can always aim wget and mirror any site for that matter, not much of a script to write as such; but yes, do backup your yh posts for sure; and as a rule, you *always* do your own backups, no matter what others might or might not be doing. | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you get that deedbot/invoice problem sorted? | [04:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. Boxcorreos has informed me that they need me to send me my passport # via email to be able to receive the test package i sent through them. Normally I would just go ahead and do so, but my attempt at a do-as-diana_coman-would-do mentality is giving me pause. The reason I am okay with sending plaintext passport #'s through email is "eh it's such an insecure system anyways, why bother putting an effort to | [13:02] |
| whaack: | protect the #?" | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | They won't let you give them the number over the phone? | [13:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I can try calling them. | [13:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I thought of this but also I am not sure if its foolish thinking the phone is more secure. | [13:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well to be especially paranoid, if it gets harvested over a voice channel whoever intercepts it has to burn more CPU turning it into a db entry. | [13:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | And its just a magic string. | [13:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | A magic string that's got most of its utility tied to an arbitrary artifact. | [13:11] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Well that last point I understand, but I don't see how it's an argument for or against giving them the number through the phone. | [13:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I ran into this quite a bit after landing. Latino systems don't tend to be fucked the way US systems are. The local ID numbers aren't magic attractive ID theft targets like US Social Security numbers are. There's all sorts of rituals here where folks gotta check off having a number in their checklist. | [13:16] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I am aware of them constantly needing the passport number in LATAM. From my understanding police can do checks on hotels and ask for the passport numbers of all their clients, and if the hotel doesn't have them available they have to pay a fine. | [13:22] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: It is usually something I give out without second thought. I gave it recently through email to get my fancy chair delivered. | [13:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The hotels thing is retarded pantsuit "anti-human" trafficking bs. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's not going to make any difference; call them since it's good for your Spanish practice but other than that, it doesn't matter. | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ha alright | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: On a separate topic (jfw and dorion your advice is appreciated as well) for my possible parts list I would appreciate feedback on the motherboard and videocard. (of course feedback on all parts is welcome, but those were the two parts I feel most uncertain about) https://pcpartpicker.com/ warned me that the motherboard will not be compatible with | [13:32] |
| whaack: | the Fx8350 if it has an older bios version. On a forum I found a post saying that the incompatible bios version is from back in 2013, and thus the motherboard will most likely be compatible. | [13:32] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Your input is always very appreciated as well :) | [13:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: All I have to really say about the parts that hasn't been said is that the speed boost of a solid state disk is hard to pass up. | [13:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | One big advantage of desktop builds is getting multiple drive bays. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is your cpu in the list of supported cpus for that motherboard or not? it should be in the specs there, no? | [14:03] |
| diana_coman: | also, I think you got confused re drives or it reads like that atm on your blog: you seem to have swapped a Kingston SDD for a SATA (mine is SATA, not SDD) | [14:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: /me sighs. Practicing 'unflinching honesty' I must admit that I managed to list the Seagate with "7200 RPM" thinking it was an SSD in my head. | [14:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | while I fully agree that using SDD gives a speed boost, tbh I never bothered with them on my desktops really, not like I ever *needed* that boost. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I use them in servers, sure. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at any rate, there's nothing wrong with either option sdd or sata really, just know what you choose and why | [14:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | It seems to make a differnece if the computer is running a Bitcoin node, but a benefit of multiple bays is a small SSD large HDD combination can work | [14:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the yes was to having confused the drives btw, i will double check the list of supported cpus for the motherboard. I found the motherboard by checking the cpu's list of supported motherboards on a third party website. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: for btc node certainly. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the SPEC! that is the reference, not whatever someone you don't know wrote on a website, gah. | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | SSD* ofc, no idea why I keep writing it as SDD. | [14:08] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: fwiw i switched (incl. workstations) to 100\% ssd in '15, and it was the most subjectively pleasant upgrade ever had occasion to buy — much more palpable effect on e.g. compile times, etc than any cpu swap ever was | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and you know, that gigabyte website actually has categories, supported sockets etc; it's made to be useful, just use it and stop just looking around maybe someone else did all the thinking for you already. | [14:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the cpu is supported as per the spec on gigabyte's website. | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I can believe. I guess at some point I'll finally move on with the times on this too or something, lol. | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then what was your question again? | [14:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There are different bios versions for the motherboard, and the pcpartpicker site warned the motherboard needed to have a more recent version. But at first pass from the spec website there are only two bios versions and the older bios is also compatible with the FX-8350 | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so it should work; and if it doesn't you certainly have something interesting to write about if the actual spec is false. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re hdd atm go with ssd, you are probably better off getting used to them anyway; for that matter, why exactly did you not want that Kingston ssd? | [14:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it seemed a good way to save ~00. as I said I brainfarted and thought the seagate was an SSD | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | those "savings" of yours belong in that pile of stupid to burn. | [14:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: on second pass of the spec website, there are 2 revisions of the motherboard and bestcomputersa has the second revision. The second revision version of the motherboard appears to only have one bios version so I should be good to go. | [14:22] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman et al : re ssd/saving — i've found that 'samsung' is the only 1 that reliably serves for the 3-4yrs / 300-400 total overwrites given in the theoretical spec. i.e. you pay for the 'savings' of chinesium w/ sudden death of disks / total loss of contents. | [14:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I would like to understand the major price differences between SSD's that connect via SATA. For example there is the Maxtor 480 GB SSD that is ~100,000 colones cheaper than the Kingston | [14:24] |
| whaack: | well looks like asciilifeform has the answer lol | [14:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | Only a very small number of fabs make NAND flash. Right now Samsung is winning that race and they keep the best chips for end products with their own branding. | [14:27] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes, meant to add that if ssd then Samsung. | [14:42] |
| whaack: | alright i will double check again later but i can't seem to find a samsung ssd on hanbot's recommended sites. | [14:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | entered serious bids on the things I wanted, including the lots of SSDs, in the Pizarro auctions for reasons. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | what, are samsung ssds not found in cr ?? | [14:49] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ftr: afaik best 'for the $' samsung item currently in print is the 860 series. | [14:51] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack et al : 'the miser pays twice'. last thing i'd miser on is hdd (esp. if you dun have a raid5.) but maybe that's just me, 'defending empty islands'(tm)(r)(mp). (will add, tho, that not 1 piz customer using full-width sata (vs usb rk) ssd's which i specced, had a disk failure, in the 2y of piz.) | [14:54] |
| asciilifeform: | another 'seekrit' — if you're installing ssd in a 'human' (vs racked, where massive air pressure already) machine — get a ribbed heatsink for it and place in direct flow from front fan. | [14:56] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Thank you. I will invest in a good ssd, look into the ribbed heatsink, and place the ssd accordingly. | [15:01] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: it could even be economical to mail order from usa, if must. worth a look at least. i had spare rk & drives shipped to BingoBoingostan from usa, it 'merely' ~doubled their cost. | [15:03] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: I may need to take you up on your offer here. Do you think you could gpg me an address where that I can send an SSD to? | [15:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 11:35:29 thimbronion: whaack: I'll be arriving in Liberia on Nov. 26th. If you want me to bring in some smaller items let me know. | [15:04] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Alright I will go with the 860 that connects via sata and use a courier service to get the drive to CR if i can't find it here otherwise / thimbronion is unable to help out. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if I read the latest article correctly, you looked in more detail at those tasks and mainly found that some are actually done, some should not take too long and a few more are not all that clear but have to be done; is this it? | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you should add the log discussion of yest as comment to yesterday's post. | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the status re cables and other needed small parts? | [15:15] |
| jfw: | hi diana_coman, that's correct about tasks | [15:16] |
| jfw: | I thought to add the discussion of the footnotes to yesterday's, but sure, can do the whole thing. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's up to you really but don't you think it belongs there | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [15:17] |
| jfw: | I'll be reading the log closer shortly but I saw the invoice question, that is not resolved | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you check again? | [15:18] |
| jfw: | Can't hurt to save it, yeah, will be good to keep handy for re-reading. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | that's the idea, yes. | [15:18] |
| jfw: | I didn't check again. | [15:18] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: i had your crate weighed & priced etc. at post office, it will go within 1d of when you're able to pay | [15:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There has been very minimal progress there. I have only a list of tools I may want for building that I got from a website (screw driver set, forceps, anti-static kit, zip ties, and canned air) and two misc parts (ethernet cable, sd card reader) | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so check again first. | [15:19] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: postage is 0.002 btc. | [15:19] |
| whaack: | (+ extra thermal paste in that list as well) | [15:21] |
| jfw: | roger asciilifeform. | [15:21] |
| jfw: | checked, still encrypted to wrong key, will ping in #trinque. | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you need to figure out a full list preferably before you go to the hardware store, no? and also, there are some basic things (such as a good set of screwdrivers, yes!) that you should have in the house ANYWAY. | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, do that. | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so based on this revised plan for the wallet, what's your estimated time required? | [15:23] |
| jfw: | afraid I haven't determined a number yet. | [15:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I have making a list of items from the hardware store in my TODO list for tomorrow before I make the trip. I can also add that to today's tasks and push the backup scripts to Friday. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you will not push the backup scripts anywhere. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | well, you can push them to the front of the queue if you prefer, that much is fine. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think the smartest move is to push saltmines down the list. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: works. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do say what you plan to do next, preferably without me asking for each and every step, all right? | [15:27] |
| jfw: | Alright. | [15:28] |
| jfw: | so, next step here is to figure out the time estimates, to make it entirely explicit. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, and an estimate for the estimates :D | [15:29] |
| jfw: | lolz! 20:30 UTC. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | works, thanks. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | I gather that the rest of the week's articles will not be still-wallet though, correct? | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ | [15:33] |
| jfw: | hey I'm back, power blipped and the net needed some fiddling to get back. (I had a UPS on that router, but battery died…) | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | lolz; had the battery-beeps-at-2am only the other day, ugh. | [15:47] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I do think I need to get back to other topics. I don't have any lined up atm besides the technical list. Anything you'd like to assign? | [15:48] |
| jfw: | (re blogging.) | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: iirc you still had some unfinished, didn't you? | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: outta curiosity, what do you use for a ups ? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: look here: http://younghands.club/2019/11/04/jfw-plan-week-of-nov-4-2019/ | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: APC | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | well,atm it's.. more than 1 UPS but anyways | [15:52] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: for ~decade nao i use several 'liebert' GXT2-1000RT120 (on diff comps), they work a++ (so long as you remember to buy new cells erry 2-3y) ; formerly apc (of simil. size) , w/ apc had many headaches. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: it worked fine for me for 6 years already, honestly | [15:54] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I had finished the joining yhc and wot series, or at least so I thought | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: now that's interesting; would you kindly link me to last article of each series, maybe I missed it somehow? | [15:57] |
| jfw: | I have a feeling you didn't miss and rather I've missed including something but: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/the-road-to-ossasepia-part-6/ , http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/my-present-understanding-of-the-wot-part-2/ | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/the-road-to-ossasepia-part-6/ you say there yourself that there was more you should be saying, don't you> | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | and lolz @ uncategorized; that does say something too. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | re WoT series, it doesn't quite come together and I suspect you didn't really have a very clear idea as to what you wanted to say overall either; or did you? | [16:07] |
| jfw: | more I should have been saying – I did; if there's more, it hasn't "loaded" yet, though perhaps for lack of trying | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | if you considered it done anyway, what was there to load, ofc. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | on WoT, I did say the things I wanted to, but perhaps those weren't clear / coherent enough | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | carrying over from #t : http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-20#1951634 | [16:13] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-20 diana_coman: I've moved ossasepia.com to 85.25.134.66 where I hope it will stay for longer really; please update hosts files accordingly and sorry for the repeated moves; I've updated DNS records too but those might take a while, as they do. | [16:13] |
| jfw: | new IP works. I'm not seeing 20:30 happening for that estimate | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: there would be quite a few things to say even when reading both parts of the WoT articles together but at the very least, you can't just plonk at the end something like if this works and then leave it at that. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | thanks for testing the IP. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | the more appropriate title there would also be "my present thinking on the potential-maybe-perhaps? role the WoT might (one-day-if-it-aint-borked-really) play (but I won't stake my word on it either way!!)" | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, I'm messing up your deadline :D | [16:21] |
| jfw: | hmm. my thinking there was, MP's claim if I recall was that the WoT does the things it does far cheaper than any possible alternative – something I'm not sure I have the knowledge to claim on my own. I'd imagine then that I should have handled this by stating it as such | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes and with reference(s), ofc; the point is not about claiming something you don't know; the point is about giving a round account of whatever issue you choose to talk about; reader can't read your mind, what. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how do you plan/choose what should go in an article? | [16:28] |
| jfw: | Can't say I have a well understood process there. Something like: I list points I can think of about the topic; consider what overall points I want to make; see what fits and in what sequence, and what else comes to mind as I go | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you see any problem there? | [16:33] |
| jfw: | lack of coherence, or understanding of the proposed path to take the reader from one point to another as I recall you've put it | [16:35] |
| jfw: | also it doesn't seem to give a good structure to support the process; more intuition than clear reasoning | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: coherence you might even get in principle (you say you do look for the sequence so probably with enough iterations you can get there) but what you can't get at all with that approach are those pesky parts that you might not yet know about the topic to start with; and this can easily feed into your "sweat blood to write" really because if you don't yet know enough, you are quite stuck. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | basically your process there – whether knowingly or not – focuses on your thoughts, not on the topic. | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | you need to actually look at the topic and start cutting out the scope as it were; cutting it out as neatly as possible out of the whole world with which it is connected, of course. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | if you try to write solely from within your head, no wonder you find it hard on non-tech: you probably don't have the same depth that you simply get by direct practice on the tech. | [16:44] |
| jfw: | huh. how does one go about looking at a topic if it's not already in head? Or would that be the wrong thing to try and rather read more until it is? | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it might not be *all* in head yet and then yes, you find you'll need to read more before you can write about it. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | you start ofc with what you have but that's a starting point | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | and whether you have enough or not depends on how well it covers all the aspects or how many it basically leaves hanging/not even spotted. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | sure, by the end of it, you'll have it (hopefully) all in head but ..not always at the start too. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | so in that case you'd be trying to write on a topic, realize there's something missing, go back to digging, then pick it back up? | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: say I ask you to write next week an article on Aspasia of Miletus; are you going to just write what you already know? (how much do you know?) | [16:51] |
| jfw: | ~0 | [16:52] |
| jfw: | I would research it. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | eh, so I chose it well; precisely. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | how do you research a topic and when do you decide you researched it enough? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | if you realise at writing stage that something is missing then yes, you have no choice than to go back and dig, what can you do; but that is rather poor initial plan & research there. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what research did you do for the WoT? | [16:55] |
| jfw: | I search the web for references, or ask people who know about it for theirs; and I'm not sure how I'd decide when is enough. The old negative space / unknown unknowns | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: negative space is not the very same as unknown or even unknown unknowns (so better & rather than /), see the discussion there. | [16:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 12:39:20 diana_coman: dorion: what's the difference between negative space and blind spots? | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | unknown unknowns may be uncovered by considering the negative space, sure; but one term is not shortcut for the other. | [16:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | every year sends an increasing portio of my queries to google with the "site:address.tld" operator than without | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that is true for me too, | [16:59] |
| jfw: | for the WoT, I re-read http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ ; I knew there was http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/ as well, which I'd read at one point but didn't reread on this pass | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: tsk; and why didn't you re-read it? | [17:00] |
| jfw: | I had taken the assignment to be efficiently expressing my own present understanding of the topic, There'd be even more to read in logs too I'm sure, but I wouldn't know where to look or when to stop | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but then why did you re-read the first one? :D | [17:02] |
| jfw: | haha, thought you might ask as I wrote that. As I recall I had re-read it recently, after you'd first asked me about the topic. Sooo, I suppose because it was fresh in memory; I had an idea of what to look for when consulting it | [17:06] |
| jfw: | and yeah I better revisit the negative space discussion too, heh. Thought I'd got the distinction but probably not quite. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: mind there that you seem to be quite good at talking yourself into anything you choose really, lol. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how about you re-read those 2 mini-series of your own writing and do a proper analysis there ie extract the theme, structure and scope + look at the result and how good it is? | [17:11] |
| jfw: | does that mean getting to the bottom of the WoT topic as well or can this be done just based on the articles themselves? | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | (this should not plunge you into a lot of research this week since you still have to focus on the wallet really) | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for now you focus on what you wrote already, so no, not getting to the bottom of the WoT topic just yet. | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | basically a vivisection of what you've got, to see if there are perhaps even obvious missing limbs for instance. | [17:15] |
| jfw: | I worry that if I was blind to them at the time I'd still be blind now, but will give it a try | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: 1. why worry ? 2. do you have/know now the exact structure & scope ie would you be able to just give it now in 1 para for each? | [17:17] |
| jfw: | ah, at least after re-reading I surely would | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | eh, after re-reading, yes. | [17:18] |
| jfw: | *right* now, I'm not sure I could | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, it's easy then: do a re-reading tomorrow and extract theme, structure and scope for the road to ossasepia series, write them analytically bullet-point style and then see what you can say about them | [17:19] |
| jfw: | cool | [17:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Updated our plan per discussion http://younghands.club/2019/11/18/wh-plan-for-week-6-nov-18th-nov-24th/#comment-153 . The past 1.5hours I was eating lunch + coordinating with the desk carpenter. I also went over with him a set of home improvements I need. Now i'm going to tackle the rsync man page. | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: works. | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Should I read the details of rsync via rsync daemon? | [18:22] |
| whaack: | nvm, i will read it even though you said to use ssh, the section on rsync daemon is not long. | [18:31] |
| jfw: | sounds proper, whaack; daemon mode (or at least knowing the syntax for connecting to one) does come in handy sometimes, it's popular with mirror sites | [18:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: mm makes sense | [18:39] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: I will send you a gpggram later tonight. | [19:11] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: tyvm! | [19:11] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: np | [19:12] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Can I confirm with you that this is an acceptable choice of SSD from Samsung? | [20:04] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: good thing you asked : this one is their shit-unit (4 bits per cell), is fit to stoke furnace. i'ma guess you found it by 'lowest price to the penny' lol. | [20:05] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Lol good thing indeed, yes I choose the cheapest option under the '860' series | [20:06] |
| asciilifeform: | you want 'evo' or (if you're launching into orbit, as i did in 1 box in uy) the costlier (and ~10-20\% longer-lived) 'pro' . | [20:06] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i oughta have said specifically. apol. to whaack et al & diana_coman for the added log kilometrage from this. | [20:07] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: imho 'pro' cannot be justified in a box that you can easily physically get to & swap disk in. | [20:09] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Yes. I was just typing that it seems wisest to get evo and just make sure I back it up (as I plan / am assigned to do anyways) | [20:10] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: back up to a traditional mechanical hd. | [20:12] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Will do and I'll post the hard drive I pick for the purpose. Right now I am using an external Seagate Backup Plus Slim – I picked it off the shelf as I was stuffing bag for CR. | [20:19] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: msg securely received. That said I plan to put your addy through the heathen pipes on samsung's website on an order tied to my card. If there's another way you would like me to order the ssd to you, please let me know. For example I can reimburse you with cash here if you'd prefer to order it yourself. | [20:26] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: it's fine to use my info | [21:53] |
| whaack: | cool | [21:54] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Nov-2019#1010606 << he made a valiant effort but didn't quite manage the 30. Beverage was delivered too. | [23:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-18 14:26:39 dorion: looking forward to delivering the 30 punches and a pinch to grow an inch. | [23:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-19 17:57:26 diana_coman: you clearly owe him a cerveza for that at least, lol. | [23:13] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | http://younghands.club/2019/11/18/rmd-review-nov-11th-nov-17th/#comment-136 – speaking of foreign languages, if that's English article, than I'm talking Romanian here; dorion why not say something there? lol | [08:57] |
| diana_coman: | I do this at times and end up speaking not-the-language-I-thought so just …say something. | [08:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I paused and let myself go to something else when I ran into that. I don't know exactly why, but will be sure to speak up moving forward. | [09:07] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you don't, I can tell you (from experience) that one day I'll throw a block of ro-text at you and then be all surprised you don't get it already, lolz | [09:09] |
| dorion: | lolz, I would like to get to the point that I do get it already, but without the surprise on your side. | [09:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how's it going today? | [15:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good, i have not walked away from my saltmines for pointless tasks as i did yesterday | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [15:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: a big error though that i should reveal is i have been doing my blog backups manually, since my crontab settings are wrong. I had got 13 days without running the backup script. today when i checked my blog my mysql process had crashed and the blog was down. i was able to fix the problem quickly, but had something really go wrong i would have lost my two most recent posts and some saved drafts. | [15:58] |
| whaack: | s/i had got/i had gone | [15:58] |
| whaack: | arg and s/really go wrong/really gone wrong | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: pfft, I meant to ask what was wrong with your blog earlier today, lolz; but …why and how come manual backups?? | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: let me see: you set up the cron tasks but wrongly so they didn't work and you didn't check until today when you noticed it had been going on like that for 13 days so you did a manual backup; is this what you are saying there? | [16:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I noticed they weren't working and I was manually running the script, but I hadn't had it run successfully for 13 days | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do NOT live with broken stuff like that, ffs. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It takes ~3 hours now because of downloading my images (i am zipping before i download) | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why didn't you just…fix the cron tasks to start with? | [16:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to fix both the crontab settings + going forward make sure my computer is left on at night. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | and ugh, no, it should NOT take 3 hours EACH TIME, eurgh. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | you use rsync and transfer only what's different, not all each time, no? | [16:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I am redownloading everything each time, not applying a diff. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: man rsync | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, so your "crontabs not working" is just that you…turned off the computer while they were supposed to be working? | [16:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol i read that as "man, rsync" | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that too! | [16:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I did not investigate, the issue may be that my crontab settings are incorrect or that it is not running because my comp is off / i lose connection at some point during the long download | [16:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i did not know about the rsync command, i will look into it | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah; but listen here: it was clearly and obviously and even painfully a problem; which you happily chose to live with for 13 days and presumably would have continued to live with until…when? | [16:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Should I keep just the most recent version of my db? I thought it may be good to have the state from the previous N days. Maybe these questions will be answered when I look into rsync | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the way this goes is in layers really | [16:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Until I learned the hardway 'from experience' | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | ie sure, you can and possibly should keep versions but that is layer 2 aka locally ffs. | [16:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and I just dodged another bullet by getting this light scare from digitalocean | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | because – I hope in my naivety here – that you DO have ALSO backups of your local drive to some external medium, yes? | [16:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no master, I purchased extra hard drives before coming here but they are still in the box | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | myeah; what else is in the boxes still? | [16:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: …quite literally a bidet. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, with this "will live with it broken" you are doing there exactly the no capacity and no disposition to ever mind effectively anything | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | must be extremely useful in the boxes, obviously. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: this week and I don't care when you find the time for it but this week on top of what you have planned already, you get everything out of the boxes and in use. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | as you set up the backups properly too, from blog to local comp (and do backup everything needed) and then at least one more layer from local comp to an external drive. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | since your local "comp" is anyway a mac something, there's surely no raid so everything might go pouf quite easily at that. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | so do backup *all* your local stuff possibly; if there is anything worth anything you actually care about in there anywya. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. I will meditate on all the leaks i have, and do what is necessary to plug them. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what are you calling a leak there exactly? | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter iirc there was some discussion of an ups but I gather that was also not-as-sexy-as-a-car, wasn't it? | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It may be a bad analogy – since a leak slowly drains whereas not having backups hits you all at once. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you get an ups? | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | it's a LACK not a leak; namely a lack of your planning, not a leak of anything. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | it's a shoddy mud-and-sticks-building, that's what it is, if you are looking for comparisons. | [16:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I did not get a UPS nor another source of backup internet. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | well sure, why get or look for something like that, since there's no friend pushing to sell one and it's only useful but not that much fun, right? | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The (expensive) UPS did not seem so necessary since the rainy season just about ended and the power seems to go out rarely and for less time than the battery life on my comp. At least that was how I justified not getting one to myself. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so listen here, no more talks of any car until you get your house and working place in proper order as someone *working with computers* ffs, not just clucking at the screen in between surfing or whatever. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | you do realise that for one thing a desktop won't have battery and for the other, an UPS offers also some protection against spikes for instance if nothing else (you could in principle get that from a proper socket too but I won't dream you have that somehow). | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | the UPS is expensive but a 20 yo car leaking oil is somehow perfectly not expensive at 0.5 btcv | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how do you figure out whether something is "expensive" or not? | [16:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, I have looked into getting one for my desktop. And you are right, I am going to fry a device eventually. The only responsible thing i've done is unplugging my shit when there are thunderstorms, which of course may not happen when I am sleeping | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | the glory of manually doing the work of the machine, so responsible. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The mistake I am making is I am judging 'expensive' solely based on initial price, not based on how negative the expected value is over time. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you are clearly not judging anything there in any sense; you have some reactions and that's about it. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is there more to add to this mess? | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | at least to see it all in its full glory, can't clean anything properly otherwise. | [16:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: because you asked, the first thing that came to mind is i haven't taken out my wisdom teeth. they don't crowd my mouth but they leave pockets where small food can collect causing gingivitis when I am not diligent with washing those pockets out. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, part and parcel of being an adult is taking care of *yourself*; can you start actually doing that? | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | at that basic level, teeth and whatnot. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | I certainly do not want to set & follow up on tasks at the level of a 5 yo; seriously. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so will you or won't you take care of yourself without prodding? | [16:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes I will | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | I hope so. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there's no ups even mentioned in that prententiously named list of first build | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen here, put that guitar in the box instead of the hard drives and get your working place in proper order before touching it again; update this week's plan by this evening (your time) with clear tasks *in order of importance* to fix all this mess so that a. no more manual anything b. no more not-working anything c. proper backups d. hard-drives put to use | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | those get sorted and sorted first. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | ups is next on the list and you buy it together with those computer parts already. | [17:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. Sorry for the slow response I had to kill some spinning. The UPS was something I was considering in my head but the reason I did not list it is because I was also thinking "maybe I do not need this." Obviously this is fucking stupid and I will look into see what other things I have not obtained that I need such as a backup way to have internet. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | good, do that. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | move the reading and the review of an outpost of progress to next week; this week you have a mess to sort. | [17:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Re guitar + surfing. I have no inclination to do either at the moment as I would get no enjoyment out of either knowing that until I fix a concrete list of problems I am spiritually and even physically dying. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | decaying, yes; that much is true; so focus this week and sort it because it's fucking unbearable from here, I have no idea how can you live *with it* there. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | I'll read the updated plan tomorrow; and let me know how it goes/if you have questions. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: say something. | [17:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is becomes unbearable here as well as I become more in tune with reality. | [17:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Only through actual hallucination / misunderstanding of my situation can I go through the day merrily. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | that sort of "merrily" is the insane sort really; way better off miserable while working to actually fix it. | [17:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so yes I will update the plan and ask or rather beg for help out of this mess, really. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | all right; help is and remains available, just focus on what you need to do and otherwise ask & speak up. | [17:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: roger. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: over what interval have you been developing that wallet? if I read correctly it has already had a few iterations. | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | Sept 2016 in crypto.py, huh. | [17:26] |
| jfw: | right, then and oct 2017 mainly; then redid/expanded the hashes in May 2018 based on the comment. | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was that footnote 3 required by your clients or what? | [17:33] |
| jfw: | Support for sending to 3-addresses: some fiat exchanges we were looking at used them | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | re footnote 1 , preferable is one thing but required atm and given the tight timeframe you have there anyway, certainly not. | [17:34] |
| jfw: | agreed | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is that the minimum you can get away with currently (ie to actually have a working wallet)? | [17:35] |
| jfw: | hmm, the switching to builtin bignum could be skipped, or I could instead build on the Python though at this point I'm not sure that would save much | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | doesn't sound likely to save much, no. | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's the way you normally decide on those ? in there? | [17:41] |
| jfw: | looks like there's some different cases: for S-value, I'd check whether it's done already by TRB with -lows flag (don't believe it is though) | [17:43] |
| jfw: | otherwise: I'd take a guess which way is best, give it a try and see how it's going | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | at this point and given the little time I'd say it's more likely faster whichever way you usually go about it; ie ~any outside mix in there is more likely to slow you down than make it faster. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | huh, that give it a try…how exactly do you "see how it's going" anyway? | [17:45] |
| jfw: | seeing what unexpected difficulties come up | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, so you try A and if you run into …too hard difficulties then you backtrack and try B and if that runs (later on) into harder difficulties you go back to A or search for C? | [17:46] |
| jfw: | (I'm getting the idea I should instead spend more effort on anticipating the difficulties) | [17:46] |
| jfw: | something like that | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know if I envy you all the time you had or shudder at the idea there, lol. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | a big problem with that sort of approach in general is also that some difficulties are really way better to have than others, *even if they are harder*. | [17:49] |
| jfw: | because they lead to more growth? | [17:51] |
| jfw: | on the envy vs. shudder, I can imagine. How do you go about such decisions? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | at times simply because they don't kill the whole thing in the medium/long term; you can say lead to more growth (if you are talking of the whole business indeed) but that is in itself already quite optimistic. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: this sort of choices (to the extent it's about something rather important eg new rpc/btc protocol?) are normally management's decision really; precisely because that's the role of management – to be able to make the correct choice *for the business* not based on "technical difficulties encountered on the route" as such; tech supports aka provides as much relevant info from the tech perspective as required/available. | [17:55] |
| jfw: | ahh. And I'll note that "don't get lost in FFA right now, finish on what we've got" was advised by dorion. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | you clearly owe him a cerveza for that at least, lol. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | I do gather that dorion is more at ease first of all with marketing in fact; but he's clearly working on growing up the management skills too because yes, crucial. | [17:58] |
| jfw: | might get to buy that cerveza tonight. | [17:59] |
| dorion: | will collect on the cerveza tonight. | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's your current plan there on tackling those and fitting them within your 13th Dec deadline? | [18:00] |
| dorion: | diana_coman agreed on the working on mgmt and how crucial it is. | [18:00] |
| jfw: | First I need to give them time estimates and deadlines and schedule the whole period | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well yes but …priorities first; hence my first question earlier re what is absolutely crucial. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I don't really know how fast you work in general and on this in particular (and esp since you haven't touched it in a while if I understand correctly) but as the list stands vs the 2-3 weeks available, it still seems quite a lot & esp a lot of unknowns to me. | [18:05] |
| jfw: | ah ok, transaction signing is first I think, then, hm… | [18:05] |
| jfw: | possibly some parts could be done more manually at first | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: part of that is also to lean on the tech to support you, not to end up supporting the tech; not saying this is what happened/is happening here but just making sure it's said in clear, just in case. | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you see, that's part of the question you should ask dorion really – can some parts be done more manually at first? ie is that acceptable/better than ending up moving the whole thing later/crucial etc? | [18:09] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks. part of it was dereliction of duty as a manager. By knowing the difficulty for myself the correctly evaluate the tech aspects I left it to him to decide, since that's his expertise/domain. A big problem though was not having in 2017 the current pleasure of reading something like the article just published. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: basically you should provide dorion with some options that are realistic & then ask/discuss on the decision. | [18:11] |
| jfw: | I consider & spell out the options then ask, makes sense | [18:12] |
| jfw: | well "consider" as in consider what they'd look like rather than whether "best" or something | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes, you are not to ask him the impossible, certainly; but you should have certainly asked for something like this article, way sooner; and jfw should have provided one even unasked, yes; but at least one of you there to have taken some steps. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, you can and should provide as much relevant information as you can; including "what I think it's best from tech pov" but note that it's always with *that* mention: from tech pov; | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | and you can – if needed – give justification also ie why you'd rather this than that | [18:14] |
| dorion: | diana_coman agreed. | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | but just as jfw, you wrestle with the tech to find a working way, note that dorion has to wrestle with a much less clearly defined beast – namely the market and the future – to figure out something that works | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | so you know, you both want to help the other with their task, certainly but part of this is *also* letting and enabling the other to actually do their part. | [18:15] |
| dorion: | and that can't happen without proper reporting on both ends. | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: well yes; you need to tell him what the business needs and to communicate as clearly as possible what the priorities are + ask for information/details when/as you require them (and preferably with reasonable time in advance too, obv); he needs to provide you with clear, useful and timely updates on the work and with notice (preferably with enough time in advance) of forks int the road/the need for decisions. | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: dorion you know, those s.mg board discussions in public in #t were not just for MP's and my convenience or something. | [18:20] |
| jfw: | aha, could make good reading for illustration of putting this theory in practice | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | when I say I claim no management expertise I mean it in a very practical term: I have much more experience with (and frankly, preference for) the tech role; it doesn't mean though that I have no idea whatsoever of anything that management does (though I am sure I don't know *all* there is to do there, either). | [18:23] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for spelling it out. I read the s.mg meetings as instructional ; there's a big gap between reading and doing and the doing must be done. | [18:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, that summary I linked only the other day for a different reason & all the graphics in eulora series and so on. | [18:25] |
| jfw: | the spelling out of the theory should also be helpful in seeing better what's going on in the reading | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | yes, not all of the S.MG board meetings are public and not all documents can be public either; that's fine; but look at the pile that is anyway public and realise that there is even more behind it all. | [18:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do you have some clear(er) idea as to what would be absolutely crucial from his tasks there? ie can you give him any help prioritizing stuff in there? | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | even if you need to discuss further between the two of you, not necessarily right now. | [18:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman still digesting and also wrapping up for travel. I'ma give it my closest read and ask questions as needed. | [18:29] |
| jfw: | I could perhaps help with that by spelling out the ?'s better as noted here | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | timing is not the best for sure, yes; as mentioned earlier, I'd rather think it's fastest if you coordinate on this between the two of you and get it done but if there's any help you think I can provide, just ask/speak up. | [18:31] |
| jfw: | will do, thank you | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you can spell them better, do it at least directly when talking to him, certainly. | [18:32] |
| dorion: | likewise, thank you diana_coman | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | you're both welcome. | [18:33] |
| jfw: | who would be the best at this point to direct TRB questions? mod6 or trinque perhaps? | [18:33] |
| jfw: | *to ask | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: trinque, if he is available. | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | I'll ask him in his chan too. | [18:35] |
| jfw: | I have some familiarity with the source, and have previously implemented a 'getrawtransaction' RPC; a way to get raw block shouldn't be too different. But good to know when to escalate. | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so join #trinque anyway, I asked him in chan there and see. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anything else or all set for now? | [18:40] |
| jfw: | All set. | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | good; I'll be back tomorrow. | [18:44] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Nov-2019#1010294 << BingoBoingo http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=jea- << does that suffice ? | [18:53] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-14 13:04:15 BingoBoingo: dorion: I haven't hammered it yet. GPG sign instructions declaring this is what you want. | [18:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: That works. Signature shows good | [19:00] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo thank you! | [19:01] |
| dorion: | off to junto to learn about the disintegration of "typographic america" via "amusing ourselves to death" n. postman. | [19:02] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Nov 2019
| jfw: | Well in tonight's odometer clicks, I'm no longer a twenty-something. | [00:53] |
| lobbes: | happy bday jfw | [00:54] |
| jfw: | ty lobbes! | [00:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | Congrats | [00:59] |
| diana_coman: | happy birthday, jfw ! | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Nov-2019#1010573 – well, they are all ~same but anyway, had a laugh indeed: "If you’re still hesitant to put in your laborious-earned currency, sign up | [04:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-17 18:46:27 whaack: diana_coman: there's some mildly interesting spam in the younghands comment queue. the spammers website links to 'blogs' that appear to have 'ai' generated text. not sure if this is the same as the spammers/scammers i remember you mentioning before | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | for a demo account and then be a greater decide for yourself." | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | next time someone pesters me to make an account on their website must-have, I'll tell them in all seriousness about being a greater decide for oneself. | [04:06] |
| lobbes: | long before I came to tmsr, I once made this 'auto-generated / shannonized web comics' thing for kicks. It consisted of a set of 'stock images' I took from the internet, and a set of lines of text that I harvested from whatever I found amusing. When the page was loaded, it would randomly pair one image with a caption. Once in a while the pairings would work out to tickle a funny bone or two | [11:35] |
| lobbes: | I imagine "be a greater decide for yourself" would have fit in perfectly with that thing | [11:35] |
| dorion: | happy birthday jfw | [12:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: Somewhere down the line a revival of that thing better inputs may be an interesting to have around. | [12:28] |
| whaack: | feliz cumpleaños jfw! | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: when did you have that review ready/done ? | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | I mean this review | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I wrote it while the electricity was down before speaking with you | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | ah, ok; just meant to say that you can always publish it earlier if you prefer/planned it/have it done. | [13:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah yes I know. Also to be clear it was not revised until after our conversation, otherwise I would have published it before. | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: argggh, learn to use numberings properly already, will you? | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | how the fuck am I supposed to refer to "monday 1 and tuesday 2" in your plan? | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | I'll use 1.1 and so on; you'll figure it out + update afterwards. | [13:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I thought that my numbering system was okay because it allows an unambiguous way to reference the points, just as you say "Monday 1 and Tuesday 2" | [13:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but I see it reads weird when you type it out. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | I do NOT want to write Monday 1 and Wednesday 14th and the year of the rabbit after Mohammed, no. | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and in general: do NOT mix different things, it's quite unsanitary; if you use numbered lists, you should be able to reference any point by numbers-only (sure, have the headings too but not as replacement for numbers). | [13:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Alright noted, I will fix the numbering and address your comments by EOD. | [13:47] |
| jfw: | thanks all. | [14:23] |
| dorion: | looking forward to delivering the 30 punches and a pinch to grow an inch. | [14:26] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm overtime on the morning's writing; I reviewed my wallet code and produced an outline of what all it presently implements and an initial list of what remains to be done. Wanted to make sure I at least got the status right, didn't have one of those handy "where I'm leaving off" documents as discussed with whaack | [14:27] |
| jfw: | Need to move on right now but I could publish the outline as-is later tonight | [14:28] |
| jfw: | dorion's lines never cease to surprise me, lol. | [14:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: on the wallet thing and *only* if you have time otherwise ie without snoballing anything, you can take more time and add to it; the writing IS part of the work on the wallet and you need to do as much of that as you can as soon as possible really since you don't have all that much time left anyway. | [14:35] |
| jfw: | alright | [14:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahahah; and I still noticed you noticed & changed the category in the end, lolz. | [14:38] |
| dorion: | heh, that Derp easter egg gets me. | [14:41] |
| whaack: | midday report: I woke up late (and hungover) having went to bed late from the fiesta last night. I've spent today coordinating with three different people trying to sell a car, and I am taking surf-pal's pathfinder to a mechanic in about 20 minutes. So I will do only 4 hours of my original 8 hours of saltmines for today when I get back. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: mkay. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you even get 4 hours of those original 8 hours of saltmines work today? | [21:18] |
| diana_coman: | or did you end up wasting the whole day running around with this/cars ? | [21:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am planning on working into the night | [21:18] |
| diana_coman: | and why was cars-running/looking not even in the plan at all | [21:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that will mean tomorrow waking late/tired though, won't it? | [21:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the latter, which is quite frustrating seeing as everything could have been decided before going to the mechanic | [21:19] |
| diana_coman: | myeah; you know,stick to your plan, it's there to *take care* of you really. | [21:20] |
| diana_coman: | after all, if you were working somewhere, you wouldn't just nip out because they want you to go to the mechanic, would you? | [21:20] |
| diana_coman: | do respect your own time and plan more and simply schedule people for later when they just come like that to make a mess. | [21:21] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, I'll be back tomorrow. | [21:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No if I had a normal 9-5 job I wouldn't just step out for this. The surf pal was leaving to Nicaragua today so I thought I should handle taking the car to the mechanic. | [21:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will still be able to get a healthy amount of sleep and be up by 8am, but yes that is still pushing back my schedule | [21:24] |
April 20, 2020
#ossasepia Logs for 17 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not sure item #5 on my todo list, writing my review for An Outpost of Progress, will make it past its final revision tomorrow. The rough draft isn't complete, and I still need to do my review/plan as well as finish/proofread my projected computer parts list article. | [01:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why so late with that draft though? | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | how did you plan the work on it that it ended up incomplete draft on Sunday? | [04:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The first reason I am so late with the draft is that throughout the week anything that interrupts my work flow takes too long. For example when I go to eat breakfast, i'll waste time doing activities such as watching an instructional video on surfing or playing guitar before beginning my grind. The second reason is that there was extraneous work i did that was avoidance behavior. For example I spent time yesterday fixi | [15:22] |
| whaack: | ng the thumbnails of my images on my travel posts for Tokyo/Korea and on Wednesday spent time helping set up Richard with irc. The third reason is that I had imagined I had time to work in the evenings, but for two nights I was invited to dinner with my neighbors and took those opportunities. | [15:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and my apologies to responding to this late. I was out this morning and when I came back the power was gone (until now) | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why were you avoiding it? | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | the dinner with neighbours is fine and should be taken; work is anyway better done during the day, not at&after supper. | [15:26] |
| jfw: | Hello all, I'm pretty well recovered on sleep debt and presently tackling some reading debts that I've accumulated. | [15:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think that the avoidance comes from two reasons. The first is laziness, I enjoy writing but it takes mental effort and so I have to push myself to put the pen on paper. (Or the fingers on the keys?) | [15:30] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: per http://younghands.club/2019/11/11/jfw-plan-week-of-nov-11-2019/#comment-126 point 3 I'm planning to put today's blogging time toward the single wallet article | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | hello jfw ; what's the status on review + plan? | [15:30] |
| jfw: | to do today. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so wouldn't that be the thing to start with and get out of the way? | [15:31] |
| jfw: | I suppose; though more people will be asleep later if I need to discuss anything | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, hm, I thought you were on writing every morning schedule – did I miss today's article from you? | [15:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 16:40:54 diana_coman: jfw: when are you going to switch the writing to first thing in the morning? | [15:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The second is there may be some subconscious dodging involved with this particular article because of how I can see some of the ugliest parts of myself in the protagonists. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that makes sense but a. start with that if indeed it was reasoned already b. make sure you do have enough time to finish those by their deadline. | [15:33] |
| jfw: | no article this morning, I slept in, had breakfast, then figured I needed to catch up first and confirm about putting the time toward the upcoming one. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should run *towards* the scary/don't like it thing, not away from it! the more you run away from it, the uglier and bigger and nastier it will get. | [15:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I believe it is more of the first reason though. I can push through with the vulnerability required for this one. It is just a bit of a daunting writing task because there are many different parts I would like to touch on in the story and each could be potential articles by themselves. | [15:36] |
| jfw: | ack on making sure to get plan & review done. | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: there are also I think quite a few comments you just left hanging around there; do realise that if you don't reply wihtin some reasonable time (and doubly so on your OWN blog, ffs!), I'll take it you don't need comments and fine. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and note that everything *can* be argued in a …convenient way :P | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | but all right. | [15:37] |
| jfw: | I've seen I am delinquent on some comment responses, yes. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so why not split it then into several, what's the problem? | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: where are you with plan + review? | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it IS fine to change the plan but as long as you actually do it, as in come forwards with the what and why and set it all out. | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | plans are meant to help, not to hinder and because you can never know exactly what you discover as you go about doing something, there is *always* the expectation that you might, perhaps, need to change some things but *only* if there is indeed a good reason for that. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as to laziness, indeed, stop being that fucking lazy, it's not doing you any good. | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that is a good solution, and I will split it into at least two articles. | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Nov-2019#1010424 – so no, don't start watching videos on surfing just because you already took a break/haven't yet started work; leave *those* for the evenings, not the not-that-much-anyway work you have. | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-17 15:22:14 whaack: diana_coman: The first reason I am so late with the draft is that throughout the week anything that interrupts my work flow takes too long. For example when I go to eat breakfast, i'll waste time doing activities such as watching an instructional video on surfing or playing guitar before beginning my grind. The second reason is that there was extraneous work i did that was avoidance behavior. For example I spent time yesterday fixi | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for that matter I suspect your "surfing & guitar time" is more likely double what you "plan" in there, if you honestly add all of it. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: speak. | [15:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I have been measuring those thinking in terms of time lying on the board in the water + time with hands touching the strings, even that is more than the allocated time. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | myeah; but never somehow thought to mention it in any of the reviews, did you? | [15:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as to laziness I know i should not be 'that fucking lazy' but I don't see how it will click and my 'real life' of a man of discipline will begin | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you know by any chance if dorion is out with the fairies or something? he was meant to pong the pings but dunno if too much excitement lately or what. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | Let me check. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, you know it but you don't want it, lol. | [15:56] |
| whaack: | I mentioned my understatement of hours in my plan for this week here in point 3 http://younghands.club/2019/11/11/wh-plan-for-week-5-nov-11th-18th/ . But I did not highlight it as a major problem as I should have. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that sounds more on the "will always do this" rather than "it always spill waaay into everything else" | [15:57] |
| jfw: | dorion's on a phone call right now, acknowledges the ping. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | re discipline, it's really about taking full responsibility for yourself; you are quite intelligent, not like you don't know /can't see exactly what you are doing and when you are doing it; but for as long as you either think it doesn't matter or choose to ignore it anyway, it will go on, yes. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ok, thanks. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do this: set in the plan for next week some daily deadlines ie split your tasks into smaller chunks if needed and/or fit them day-by-day | [16:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it is horribly painful being at an intelligence high enough to see the situation i'm in, but perhaps not high enough to resolve the problem i'm able to perceive | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that I can fully believe indeed; but note that the discipline part is not really about intelligence, I'd say; it's more of a skill really ie something you need to… practice. | [16:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, I will split my tasks into smaller chunks and add mid week deadlines. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: was this the root of not quite sure if agree with 2nd point? | [16:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 15:23:29 whaack: diana_coman: i agree, at least with the first point lol | [16:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: When i typed "I don't see how it will click" i realized that it is ridiculous to imagine that discipline is something that 'clicks' in one moment | [16:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you get micromanaged before? (dunno, at home, at school, whatevers) | [16:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Home – my parents never put any pressure on me to do anything. I loved them for that up until now, today I resent their laissez faire parenting. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | so no they did not micromanage me at all | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so how did you approach/handle the longer-term commitments and work? ie ok, you managed yourself *somehow*; how? | [16:11] |
| whaack: | At Stuyvesant h.s. I was micromanaged with my daily schedule of classes, I guess. I wasn't micromanaged at MIT nor in any of my "SV" jobs/internships I've had. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: occasionally I manage to get myself into situations where I productively focus for long chunks of time. These are sporadic but when they happen I can use my wit to get shit done | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's specific to those situations? and how sporadic + long are they? | [16:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It's sad, but my productive periods have often happened when circumstances outside my control leave me with nothing fun to do otherwise. | [16:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I can buckle down for about 30 hours of hard work, spread out over ~three days. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and if there's still no fun to be had after those 3 days? | [16:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: heh, sure it can and has gone for longer periods of time. But if it's more than 3 days I would say I have to enjoy the work i'm doing as well | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, you mean that absent-fun you'll do even work-you-hate, lolz. | [16:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha yes | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: let me see if I got this straight: you *do* enjoy the work you've got in here but it's an effort and therefore getting started on it gets pushed to the latest moment (or beyond if possible) while all the fun to be easily had around is taken advantage of; is this correct? | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | I see; for one thing you need to plan your stop/start better ie make it easier for yourself to get back into the work; this is most likely something you are getting horribly wrong there. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | for the other thing, there is some approach to your trouble that would work but you'll have a lot of fighting to do with yourself. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i am intrigued | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, the fun of guitar + surfing, for all the fun that it is, will need to be earned rather than just taken for granted. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: when you work, do you ever get to some point where you really enjoy it and actually want to keep doing it? | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: good; so at that point you find a way to … stop; the point is to stop while you have something easy & enjoyable & clearly set up to do; so that it's easy to re-start + you even want to restart; do you get what I mean? | [16:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that is quite counter intuitive | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | if you look at it from the "enjoy now" pov, it surely is. | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but I see your point. if you keep working until you get to the dreaded part, and stop then, then it is frustrating to resume | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | but look at it from "getting back to work later", it should make sense. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | exactly; and not only frustrating but naturally something you'll …avoid; obviously. | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the only question I have is that sometimes the fun part is when i'm being extra productive, and I think that extra productivity comes from having a lot of information loaded into meat-ram | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: this doesn't mean that you have to stop at *every* enjoyable point, lol; just make sure that you stop only at such a point, *never* at "the dreaded part" | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that is very possible; the other part to this is to start getting better at helping your recall and reload really; let me fish something out for you. | [16:36] |
| whaack: | ok. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: read that 1st para in http://ossasepia.com/2019/09/05/a-summers-summary-and-next-steps-in-eulora/ | [16:38] |
| whaack: | begins reading. | [16:38] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I woke up to find my (us) bank account frozen, i.e. prevented from making atm withdrawals. then I call them and they claim they can only unblock the debit card if they send me an sms to a number their third party vendor claims is associated with my "identity"… said blocked due to suspicious activity, despite that I've made ~20 such withdrawals over the past year. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | o.O the joys of US bank accounts | [16:42] |
| dorion: | myeah, I'll be closing it asap, but this runaround ate up some hours today, thought I'd was close to passing their test a couple times.. | [16:43] |
| dorion: | anyways, my review and plan will be out by 8pm EST. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | I wanted to ask why you need one since you've been not in the US for quite some time already. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | anyways; did you figure out any part of MP's title? | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the 1st para is relevant to you, lolz; not that I mind you reading all. | [16:45] |
| dorion: | I didn't shut it down since receiving/making payments their can be helpful and it's not like panama banks are anything to write home about. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | I see. | [16:46] |
| dorion: | I don't believe I've cracked the title puzzle, no. yest was more focused on getting a coherent reply to his comment. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | the advantage with local bank is usually/normally that you can supposedly go directly to them and sort it out; + not sure I ever saw/heard of anything *worse* than US bank accounts but at any rate, you know that part best. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | all right; I'll let you get on with the work then. | [16:48] |
| dorion: | I know I have a couple other comments (on dm and yh) to get replies to today as well. Were you referring to other pings I didn't pong apart from yours earlier this afternoon? | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: there was one yest though it wasn't a question; it was just adding up and getting weird; it's cleared up now. | [16:49] |
| dorion: | there for sure has been more excitement then normal this past week, plus the mentioned recovery yesterday morning and making sure I've covered all bases prior to wednesday morning travels. | [16:50] |
| dorion: | but excitement I'm working to normalize and build on. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [16:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for pushing the panama and jwrd articles to the top of this week's priorities. there was a big weight of uncertainty in the composition of those that's now lifted. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: heh, as you messaged me I was carefully reading the first two bullet points of work of May, wanting to make sure I digested your article thoroughly although knowing that the specifics of your work on eulora was not the important takeaway. Yes, the first paragraph details a clever strategy that seems ~so obvious~ after reading it. I would both save time on my weekly reviews and be able to refresh my memory quicker if I | [16:54] |
| whaack: | were to write a review for my tasks as soon as I finish them. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: glad to hear it; and you're welcome. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so try that and see how it goes; and feel free to experiment there to find what works best for you – the important part is that you *develop* a way to put down/pick up tasks that *works*. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, maybe I should specifically say it: make *sure* thos reviews don't end up taking ages to do,lol! the point is to give yourself something to start with/from next time ie jot down the important bits and what next perhaps but at any rate, do not become exhaustive about it/start polishing it. | [16:59] |
| whaack: | dorion: hmm i have a suspicion that eventually i'm going to get my bank account blocked here. good luck getting that problem resolved (or maybe you already have it solved, not clear to me from the log lines). | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you still need a US bank account? | [17:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am actively looking into getting one here, with the hope of eventually getting rid of my US bank account | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any questions for next week? | [17:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do I have to do to earn time to surf and play guitar? | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | the jobs for the previous day; fully; obv, for that, you need to have planned them properly to start with, hence next week you do that. | [17:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: got it | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you need to, feel free to report in chan too, there's no problem with it. | [17:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: by report you mean report the progress of daily goals? | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, in general of anything you need to report :) but yes, that's what I had in mind. | [17:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay, will do | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should re-read today's log/convo too. | [17:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will note it in my review and read it again tomorrow once it has cleared my mind. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [17:16] |
| dorion: | whaack thanks for the luck. not resolved (going to go into the branch office wednesday pm or thursday am). typically if you tell them you're traveling, no problem. I asked them a while ago to permanently whitelist panama on my account. the atm i tried pulling from today is ~2km from the regular one I use and allegedly that flagged it. | [17:21] |
| dorion: | I worked through a blocking prior, but in the meantime they've changed their processes. and I don't do that "voiceprint" verification bs, so maybe that makes me even more suspicious in their crusty eyes. I dunno. not going to burn any more cycles on it till I can look them in eyes. | [17:24] |
| whaack: | dorion: that is useful to know that what flagged it was pulling from an atm that was not your regular one | [18:02] |
| dorion: | I've pulled from many atms though. not just one. so i dunno wtf, but the unfreeze part exposed even more backwardsness. | [18:04] |
| dorion: | bbiab | [18:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's been at least a year since I used my US based bank and its card for anything other than shit-web payments. I've seen no reason to use it at ATMs in a long time. | [18:05] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: If I may, how do you go about getting your local altcoin? | [18:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Local bank offers good conversion rate between Dosiedos and Pesos, Also cash taken from local bank to corner cambios. | [18:19] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: So you speak with a teller when you get your cash? Because going to the bank for me usually still involves using my card. | [18:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: ATM/Debit card is not a credit card. There is a dance that can be done to use the thing online, but it needs to be done for every single online transaction. Easier to take cash to an Abitab and pay for anything aquired online locally. | [18:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | They take card use requires chip+pin seriously down here. | [18:22] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Got it. When you said you have not used your card for a year I thought that included debit card withdrawals. | [18:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not like they can print fiat to cover the "these magic strings are all a payment needs" thing without collapsing | [18:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well that's the one from old country I haven't used. | [18:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | The card from old country has utility limited to "X wants a quick online payment for (domains, out of WoT hosting, etc)" | [18:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | I don't see any point to feeding the account old country card is linked to any more than trivial sums. | [18:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | Local account eatsand sends local/international wires. Transfers between different local banks happen same day, the local clearing house batches interbank transactions for clearing three times a day. | [18:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyone with an account other than a "financial inclusion" mandated salary receiving account gets both USD and UYU demoninated accounts at a minimum. Accounts denominated in EUR and Brazillian Reales are also available. | [18:30] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Of course CR will be different, but do you know if there is trouble (on the US side) moving 5 digit fiat numbers from old country to new country? | [18:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: When the US is involved there are lots of rituals, dances, and swearings | [18:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | At least once number cross the magic line | [18:35] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: And from the pieces of paper I get on airplanes that magic line is 0k | [18:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Per the US retardation the line could happen at any sum if you do it repeatedly. They call it "structuring" and accuse the victim of trying to evade the reporting limits. | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect the local banks are going to want you to have established legal residency before they'll touch you as a customer. Once you have legal residency established, I don't know if there is a best way to get dollars out of the US. dorion and jfw may have ideas. | [18:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | But here registering a business helped. Getting the local ID was magic. | [18:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | Buying Bitcoin seems the best solution for making balances stuck as USD inside the US more portable. Hanbot is almsot certainly going to be your best source for Costa Rica specific weird. | [18:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there's some mildly interesting spam in the younghands comment queue. the spammers website links to 'blogs' that appear to have 'ai' generated text. not sure if this is the same as the spammers/scammers i remember you mentioning before | [18:46] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: That seems the way. With a local btc/cash vendor I could forgo the CR bank account requirement as well. That said I still plan to get one. | [18:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, its handy. You're bound to encounter local businesses that find local wires convenient for regular payments. | [18:50] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes exactly for that purpose. I've already encountered this. | [18:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | This can also be done at terminals inside the local "Abitab" and "Redpagos" corner fortresses, but… | [18:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 16 Nov 2019
| dorion: | back from paying off a bit of sleep debt and a long city runwalk to mix in some sun and endorphins with the afterglow of this morning's comments and article ; now to work on the responses. | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do ask /speak up if there's anything. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: to add to your Odyssey-reading: http://trilema.com/2014/the-bicameral-world-in-one-room-the-city-dump-in-the-other-room-the-starred-restaurant-do-these-talk-to-each-other-read-on-to-find-out/ | [15:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Thank you, that article is going to take more than a minute to digest. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: certainly; and since you mentioned it as if it was surprising, have this one too: http://trilema.com/2017/re-reading-is-the-most-powerful-tool/ | [15:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha no, it was not surprising! | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | good then :) | [15:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I suffered from some spinning while I was typing ~ "and i'll read the re-reading article too, i've already read it once!" | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the worry? no need to even count the re-readings anyway; just re-read when needed/it's time comes again, that's all. | [15:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the irony of only having once read an article about rereading | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; so start with that, have a laugh at yourself and you'll even remember it next time perhaps. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: will do. I reread An Outpost of Progress, I caught one foreshadowing easter egg he places for the second go around, I would not be surprised if there are more that I may catch on a third pass. I also have a few pieces by Kafka in dead tree here, from my understanding his stories are in part built for rereading. | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: whether "built for" as in the author's intention is immaterial since you can't actually know either way; the important part though is that anything worth reading is worth re-reading and in this sense, sure, all literature is written to be re-read; you can easily argue that it's precisely that the definition of literature (expanding re-read to carry over centuries, not only individuals). | [15:35] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: yeah I gotta step up on my asking things. Re the Punta Trouville, how would you recommend booking – can they make a reservation by phone or email and take cash on arrival? | [17:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: They've done that before, but it's been more than a year since I've been there. I've always offered some sort of card when I reserved in advance. Mind that December through February 15th is the high season. Most of my interactions with them have been in the tourism off season. | [17:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Since you are arriving in the morning, I recommend calling anyways to make sure you have a place to park you bags and do your acute recovery rituals for having been on an airplane. | [17:33] |
| jfw: | The flight is arriving just after midnight, so I do need the extra night and the question that comes to mind is more about checkin or shuttle service at that hour | [17:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yeah, call and ask. | [17:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | And at that hour, might as well just get a SIM card at the airport when you land. | [17:39] |
| jfw: | aight | [17:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | That way if you get lost, need anything delivered etc, you can reach me or the hotel | [17:49] |
| jfw: | alright so the Spanish was more or less comprehensible, they can do cash but needed Visa/Mastercard/Amex for security, midnight checkin not a problem, 2/night sin desyuno, notbad, and sounds like there's an airport shuttle ~5. | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | I gather I might not need to read 1k words on suitcases after all; good. | [18:07] |
| jfw: | :) | [18:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not bad at all for December. Down ~10 USD since 2017. For food needs, there's a 24 hour mega gas station around the corner on the same block. Decent grocery section and a small cafe carveout. | [18:11] |
| jfw: | nice | [18:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | There's more expensive hotels in nominally better locations with much poorer night logistics. | [18:12] |
#ossasepia Logs for 15 Nov 2019
| jfw: | !Xbid 1068 1mn | [02:57] |
| jfw: | !Xbid 1072 55mn | [03:00] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Nov-2019#1010311 – apologies if you were in a hurry to send it out asciilifeform, I didn't realize. I'll take care of this by tomorrow. I might bid on the two Piz FG in your care (1075, 1076); if I get that you could combine the shipment if that's more convenient. | [03:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-14 14:38:45 asciilifeform: jfw: i hate to be a bother, but where do you want your irons sent ? you won the auction, and i don't have a postage addr yet . | [03:26] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (3h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (3h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (3h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (3h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (3h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (3h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (3h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (3h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=60mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (3h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (3h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (3h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (4h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (4h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 134mn total bids — | [08:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | !Xview 1064 | [11:04] |
| auctionbot: | Sell order # 1064: Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Opening: 1mn ecu Leading Bid: 1mn ecu Ending: 2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 UTC (0 hours 39 mins) | [11:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | Sniping time approaches | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: are you still snowed in with those tasks for this week? | [15:36] |
| jfw: | Pretty much, and with travel prep especially. | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | hmm, if you say so, all right. | [15:44] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hmm, this seems like an 'enough rope to hang myself' situation. I am perhaps over-prioritizing this not-really-planned flurry of tasks there, it's not like I'm leaving next week after all. I can be available for the next hour to chat if you'd like. No snowballing and all. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that's why I like you loads really; and yes, you do seem to entirely act out the maniacal slavedriver all for yourself there; just …why? | [16:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 05:55:49 ossabot: Logged on 2019-10-15 21:10:24 jfw: all, rather than go on spinning along the lines of "diana_coman is a maniacal slavedriver and I can never sleep again, or I'm inadequate for unfathomable reasons" | [16:08] |
| jfw: | heh. Which is the "why" there – because I caught myself? or would that be the slave-driving | [16:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: What sort of prep for the Montevideo trip still needs done? | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lol; the 2nd thought there; because it's the one that hits the nail on the head. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | Still need to arrange hotel and procure a suitably sturdy travel case | [16:12] |
| jfw: | been looking at 'Pelican' for that | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | for…how long looking? lolz | [16:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: To solve the hotel problem, just book the Punta Trouville. | [16:12] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: aight. diana_coman: not sure really, found a local supplier to check out then amazon as fallback | [16:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | But request a room facing the street, front of building. The view from the back is just the ugly ass end of skyscrapers. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: instead of just asking BingoBoingo for what to go with and booking it… | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | you know what, if you are looking at suitcases for more than 1 hour, you'll have to write 1000 words about it too! | [16:16] |
| jfw: | oof, ok I won't do that then! | [16:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: The suitcase store down here is https://www.zenitstore.com.uy/ | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | seriously, way more important stuff to spend time on. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: looking at your plan there, you are not supposed to have all that much left :D | [16:19] |
| jfw: | Not too much, no. Perhaps tomorrow I can relax a bit. | [16:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | Zenit may or may not have an adequately sized case. Anyways, I'm reading the auction results, you have two dulaps, the switches, and FUCKGOATS? | [16:22] |
| jfw: | correct BingoBoingo | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | pfft, take the rest of this hour that you said was available for chat and relax it today + work better tomorrow. | [16:22] |
| jfw: | + dorion's SSD once he authorizes. | [16:22] |
| jfw: | ty diana_coman! | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | yw. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | will be back later | [16:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: https://www.zenitstore.com.uy/inicio/2944-valija-zenit-antirrobo-ne-grande.html << This seems like it can fit the dulaps. Alternately you can call Copa and see what they charge if you bring a box back with you, and we box the daulaps. | [16:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | The switches will fit in a generic "large" suitcase with room to spare. | [16:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | Everything else can fit in a backpack/"personal item" leaving you the overhead carryon to fill as you please. | [16:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Anyways, whaack's post today has a point. It rarely hurts to ask. | [16:34] |
#ossasepia Logs for 14 Nov 2019
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (32h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (32h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (32h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (32h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (32h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (32h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (32h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (32h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (32h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (32h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (32h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (33h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (33h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:22] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [03:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (27h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (27h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (27h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (27h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (27h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (27h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (27h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (27h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (27h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (27h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (27h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (28h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (28h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:22] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [08:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010241 – meant to say: it's enough to post in #t a question I would think. | [09:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 18:34:32 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010224 << jfw, perhaps it'd be most effective to post this in #trinque so it's for sure right in front of him, then cross post to #trilema so mircea_popescu knows your status. | [09:27] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo is the 1TB SSD I was renting to own available for pick up by jfw ? | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: I haven't hammered it yet. GPG sign instructions declaring this is what you want. | [13:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | back in a bit | [13:04] |
| dorion: | thanks, will do sat or sunday. | [13:05] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (22h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (22h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (22h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (22h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (22h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (22h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (22h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (22h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (22h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (22h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (22h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (23h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (23h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:22] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [13:22] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: i hate to be a bother, but where do you want your irons sent ? you won the auction, and i don't have a postage addr yet . | [14:38] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (17h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (17h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (17h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (17h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (17h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (17h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (17h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (17h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (17h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (17h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (17h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (18h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (18h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [18:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (13h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (13h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (13h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (13h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (13h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (13h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (13h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (13h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (13h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (13h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (13h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (14h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (14h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:22] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [22:22] |
#ossasepia Logs for 13 Nov 2019
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Or Montevideo Shopping, or any kiosko | [00:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | brb, sleep | [00:15] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (56h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (56h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (56h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (56h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (56h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (56h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (56h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (56h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (56h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (56h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (56h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (57h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (57h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [03:21] |
| jfw: | diana_coman, I haven't missed your commitment re wallet question and will look into it when I awake. | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | works. | [05:42] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (51h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (51h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (51h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (51h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (51h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (51h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (51h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (51h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (51h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (51h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (51h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (52h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (52h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [08:21] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yesterday's exciting discussion at the grown up table and associated post-processing displaced the time I'd allocated for writting my Panama article. I'll have it published before midnight EST rather than the planned noon today. | [08:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010138 – it's ok; but in general you do need to plan some buffer time too, seriously. | [09:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 08:46:19 dorion: diana_coman yesterday's exciting discussion at the grown up table and associated post-processing displaced the time I'd allocated for writting my Panama article. I'll have it published before midnight EST rather than the planned noon today. | [09:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. My saltmine time that I usually do leave for today has been moved to tomorrow. My work I have cut out for me is (1) order a chair (2) write a summary of information I learned from hanbot (3) begin the process of delivering a small item to myself through a courier service (4) start my An Outpost of Progress review | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: morning; sounds all doable and with time to spare really; at any rate, it's up to you how you plan exactly on a daily basis. | [10:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, ik one can only manage to a certain degree. | [10:24] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (46h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (46h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (46h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (46h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (46h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (46h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (46h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (46h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (46h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (46h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (46h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (47h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (47h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [13:21] |
| dorion: | :w | [15:05] |
| dorion: | whoops, guess ^ that's not vim. sorry. | [15:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | At least it wasn't a password or privkey | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | lol; the joys of mode-based editors. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010143 – well, it is possible to micromanage but I don't think it's either healthy or a very good use of time really; and more to the point, I really don't think you need it either. | [15:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 10:24:17 whaack: diana_coman: yes, ik one can only manage to a certain degree. | [15:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i agree, at least with the first point lol | [15:23] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: my flight is booked, arriving in the early AM of Dec 7 and departing Dec 9. | [16:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | cool | [16:12] |
| jfw: | I'm guessing I should try to get some cash exchanged ahead of time | [16:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | nah | [16:13] |
| jfw: | airport's good enough? | [16:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | Nah, wait till you get out of the airport. Do bring USD in small bills to hold you over until you get to a real cambio | [16:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | although airport isn awful | [16:14] |
| jfw: | good to know. | [16:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | 100 to 200 usd in small bills should get you to your hotel to drop off the bags. There's a bunch of cambios in the city. | [16:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, it should give you a WIDE margin of safety in getting to the hotel | [16:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | This is a dual dollar/peso economy | [16:17] |
| jfw: | heh, was gonna say, 00 for airport cab?? | [16:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: ~50 when I came. ~55 ish when alf came. I recommend seeing if your hotel offers an airport shuttle. | [16:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | Outside of the airport, cabs aren't awfully priced. The airport cabs however are the shitty outlier. | [16:22] |
| jfw: | it's similar in panama; typically 0 iirc. | [16:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | Cambios in this country work the following way: When you get to the counter "Me gustarÃa pesos Uruguayos" hand over dollars, receive your pesos and a receipt | [16:23] |
| jfw: | facil! | [16:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | No id, no extra paper work. Cash in, different cash out | [16:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | As far as weather nights may be a bit chilly, but it'll be summer temperatures during the day. Unless it rains… when that happens the temperatured can go up, down, or anywhere in between | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw and dorion what's with you both with time management anyway? | [16:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: The address where the hardware is presently located http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Pw30 | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing you just jump to whatever sexy new thing appears | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | and for the other, esp jfw, do you really work better at night or what? | [16:31] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo et al : my flight booked also ( cab was ~50 $ incidentally ) but cancellable (in case the fella w/ the half-length flight outbids on errything) | [16:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: But you've been here before. You know how to get pesos, etc | [16:33] |
| jfw: | diana_coman, not sure what to say there. for the second – I do tend to end up on a later schedule; the quiet can be nice, but I think it's part of the time management problem really. | [16:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: The address for your convenience http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Be7Z | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: quiet can certainly be had during the day; and needed hours of sleep are still the same really, not like they diminish if pushed later. | [16:35] |
| jfw: | indeed | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you ever specifically plan with some extra time? and at any rate, do you ever end up with "done with all and it's still early, huh"? | [16:37] |
| jfw: | seems like not, there's always more I feel I need to do | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that is true and valid until you die, you know? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | it's still not a reason to overcram stuff because overall it ends up less productive really | [16:39] |
| jfw: | right | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: when are you going to switch the writing to first thing in the morning? | [16:40] |
| jfw: | I'll start tomorrow. | [16:41] |
| dorion: | diana_coman for this article I originally allocate time to be done with the draft last night and gave the morning for final review. in my mind that was sufficient buffer. it occurred to me this morning that my buffer allocation didn't involve more time to do the task than I thought I'd need. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: good. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahaha, that's no buffer, no. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, that's exactly it: you estimate what you think it takes, then you add something on top of the estimate | [16:43] |
| jfw: | and if it doesn't fit, don't force it eh | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | and "how much" depends on how good you are at estimating that sort of thing really | [16:43] |
| dorion: | on the writting side, I think a main difficulty is lack of practice at the skill. it doesn't involve just what you write, but also time to find links, etc. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not as much about "don't force it"; it's about re-evaluate *correctly* what it fully means to "force it" ie at the very least 1. how effective it would be (what and how much would it gain) 2. what you *lose* there (because there is always something you'll lose) | [16:45] |
| dorion: | on top of that, the Pananma and business plan articles have a relatively big scope. I've been approaching them by breaking up the allocated time into 1-2 hour blocks. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what would be "just what you write" ? what, typing speed? lolz | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | yes, referencing takes time, outlining and even working out the content takes time too, even proofreading takes time and so on. | [16:48] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I mean the drafting, the more subscious flow. I have more practice there from my journaling habit, which doesn't include the other processes which provide better structure and clarity. | [16:50] |
| dorion: | s/subscious/subconscious/ | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: hm, ok; as a basic thing though, esp if it's something new /you have no experience with, the hard rule is pretty much "estimate the time and then DOUBLE it", lol | [16:54] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aha. ok, I will starting doubling. makes complete sense. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | cool; nothing stops you otherwise from having a lengthy list to chew through in that happy case when you finally finish faster than you thought you would; but way better to do that then to constantly end up late. | [16:56] |
| dorion: | right. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the above is valid for you too. | [16:58] |
| jfw: | yes, I could use some more buffers and happy cases. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | cool; plan for them or they won't happen :P | [16:59] |
| jfw: | word. | [16:59] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for pressing on that. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | trinque: for some more context on my deedbot question, I was able to decrypt the OTP to !!up earlier that day | [17:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-12 21:07:16 jfw: trinque or others: I'm seeing the following strange behavior with deedbot, not sure if user error or what. I sent a !!received-invoices by PM, to see if MP's invoice had gone through. It returned a paste encrypted to an unknown key. I tried again after a couple minutes and it didn't respond. I have not made a deposit yet, perhaps that's | [17:04] |
| jfw: | and thanks diana_coman as well. | [17:04] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (41h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (41h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (41h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (41h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (41h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (41h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (41h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (41h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (41h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (41h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (41h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (42h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (42h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [18:21] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010224 << jfw, perhaps it'd be most effective to post this in #trinque so it's for sure right in front of him, then cross post to #trilema so mircea_popescu knows your status. | [18:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 17:04:41 jfw: trinque: for some more context on my deedbot question, I was able to decrypt the OTP to !!up earlier that day | [18:34] |
| jfw: | dorion: seems to me it's not time to bombard the man quite yet, he saw the ping yesterday but perhaps forgot after getting into a different thread. Can give him a chance to get to the terminal. I'll escalate if I haven't heard back by tomorrow. | [18:42] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo, confirming I got the address, ty. Should I also get a phone number or how would you prefer to coordinate on the ground? | [18:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw sure I'll shoot you the phone number in PM right now | [18:58] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (37h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (37h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (37h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (37h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (37h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (37h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (37h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (37h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (37h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (37h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (37h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (38h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (38h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [22:22] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo as some of these items are without bids, what happens if the last bid closes under the opening ask ? | [22:34] |
| jfw: | he's backing the opening price, so they'd be his | [22:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right. If no one else buys something I will. | [23:25] |
#ossasepia Logs for 12 Nov 2019
| jfw: | lobbes: auctionbot down again | [01:49] |
| lobbes: | ty jfw | [02:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Do let me know if you have any questions about Uruguay logistics or the hardware in the pile | [02:08] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: know the depth of the SMG servers? (my present bags should just fit 26") | [02:11] |
| jfw: | Thanks lobbes. Do I infer rightly that auctionbot's clock is ~6h fast but its display of time remaining is correct? | [02:14] |
| lobbes: | jfw: your inference is right on both points | [02:16] |
| lobbes: | server is UTC timezone, iirc | [02:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: The deeper of the 2 (testing) is right at 26" The other, production, is 24" This is without the ears, drive caddies, or power supplies installed. | [02:21] |
| jfw: | perfect | [02:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | The rails, if you want them, are presently longer, but may be able to shorten up for travel. Going back to Panama, you probably want the rails. | [02:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | means non-destructively disassemble the rails when saying "shorten up" | [02:24] |
| jfw: | yes, or perhaps they could be shipped separately with less difficulty than the servers | [02:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | Logistics wise, the most helpful thing I can offer on the information you presented is that Copa's the only airline you should be considering given the city to city pairing. | [02:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Yes, still a bit of weight. | [02:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | Tomorrow I'll make some time to open the rail bundle and see if they do. | [02:26] |
| jfw: | !Xbid 1063 55mn | [02:54] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=55mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (2h27) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (80h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (80h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (80h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (80h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (80h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (80h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (80h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (80h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (80h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (80h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (80h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (81h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (81h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 178mn total bids — | [03:21] |
| jfw: | well alright, I've got a flight to book. | [05:50] |
| diana_coman: | ha, congrats jfw | [05:51] |
| jfw: | ty diana_coman | [05:52] |
| jfw: | MP will invoice me through deedbot? | [05:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes; but you can ask in #t too if you aren't sure how it'll proceed. | [05:53] |
| jfw: | cool. For now, off to get some sleep. | [05:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you get the early chance to speak up re Gales, see in #t when you get up http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-12#1950592 | [07:37] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-12 mp_en_viaje: aite, send him over when he wakes, we continue this convo. | [07:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I suggest you are around at the same time in #t as you might be able to answer better some of the questions, it won't be all just-gales | [07:51] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (75h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (75h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (75h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (75h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (75h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (75h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (75h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (75h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (75h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (75h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (75h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (76h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (76h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [08:21] |
| dorion: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-12#1950571 << w00tie w00t ! | [09:54] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-12 auctionbot: Sell order # 1063 has ENDED: selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. SOLD to jfw for 55mn ecu. Attn: mp_en_viaje | [09:54] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Nov-2019#1009960 << I confirm I'll be present. | [09:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-12 07:51:19 diana_coman: dorion: I suggest you are around at the same time in #t as you might be able to answer better some of the questions, it won't be all just-gales | [09:55] |
| dorion: | jfw I have a coffee meeting at 11 in the neighborhood. it shouldn't last too long, but give me a call 20 mins you're about to speak in #t if it's around that time and I'll cut the coffee short. will be at desk otherwise today. | [09:57] |
| whaack: | jfw: congrats on the iron. a nice reason to go to Uruguay too! | [10:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: It is an ~8-ish hour flight, so you may want to book a place to sleep. I can offer recommendations that'll keep the iron hauling from being too much of a haul. | [10:58] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: certain irons you bought, are in usa. please see these instructions for postage . i'ma give postage cost as soon as i have a signed addr. | [11:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (70h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (70h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (70h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (70h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (70h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (70h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (70h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (70h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (70h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (70h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (70h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (71h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (71h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [13:21] |
| dorion: | back at desk and proactively communicating I haven't heard from jfw yet, but he was up quite late. | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: thanks for the update. | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | will be back in ~1 hour | [14:15] |
| jfw: | I'm here, catching up. | [14:55] |
| jfw: | asciilifeform: ty, I'll comment there as requested once I figure out where I want 'em. Might also bid on the 2 sealed Piz FGs in your possession if they're put up for auction. | [15:00] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: ty. and, that auction is already live and ends on fri. #1075, #1076. | [15:03] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo, I'll follow up on logistics in a bit, def interested in your lodging recommendations. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | I'm back and I'll be around for the next couple of hours. | [15:09] |
| jfw: | waves | [15:10] |
| dorion: | jfw probably best to give an eta for when you expect to be ready for #t. it is evening in europe by now. | [15:37] |
| jfw: | 10 mins. | [15:40] |
| jfw: | ready, trying a self-voice. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ok; let's see if MP is on anyway. | [15:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am considering again buying http://younghands.club/2019/11/03/wh-review-of-week-3-oct-28th-nov-4th/?b=selling&e=btc#select . I am also looking at some other cars. I'd like a car because it would greatly increase my freedom here, and I want to gain some driving experience (I have ~0 having lived in NYC/Boston for most of my life). But I know nothing about buying cars, so I ask humbly for advice first. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the first thing if you know nothing about cars is that you should most probably buy a *new* car | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | for all that it seems more expensive and that; your lack of knowledge means that you can't properly evaluate a used car so you can't properly speaking buy it | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, those toyotas-in-cr have a rather poor reputation iirc; I suggest you go again and ask hanbot about this too since she is quite an experienced CR driver. | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright I will ask her and look into the new car route. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | other than that, it does make sense to buy a car and start exploring too, sure, why not. | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mhm it would be nice to know some more than the pics on my blog and the road to the store, lol | [16:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | All I can really offer re: Latin Driving is beware of the Chinese cars | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you can always *rent* a car too, no/ | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | I doubt it's terribly expensive | [16:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Renting may be the way to get started as a very new driver. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | and hm, fwiw I actually got around during those 2 weeks in CR without driving myself (because I wanted a holiday and the driving I saw from locals didn't look all that conducive to calm). | [16:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I believe I can rent, yes. The only trouble that I may run into is I only got my license last June and some places require you have had your license for a year or so. | [16:31] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: What's wrong with the Chinese cars? | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: meant to check – did you see http://younghands.club/2019/11/04/rmd-week-1-plan-nov-4th-10th-2019/#comment-109 and http://younghands.club/2019/11/01/rmd-review-october-15th-november-1st-2019/#comment-110 ? I'm not sure how visible comments on older posts on yh are atm. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; what's wrong with Chinese things-you-find-outside-china in general? | [16:35] |
| dorion: | whaack I recommend checking what the license requirements in CR are. In panama, one can legally drive with foreign drivers license for 3 months upon entry; after 3 months continuously in country, need a panamanian license. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose he would probably want to get the CR license anyway. | [16:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: From what I've seen the build quality isn't inspiring. The ones I've ridden seemed to have a prematurely aged ride quality, loud gearbox, and other faults. The ones I've seen wreck didn't seem to have much structure to them at all. | [16:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I can guess they get sent out of the country cheaply for a reason lol | [16:38] |
| whaack: | dorion: Pretty sure it's the same here, ty though I will double check. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | and those importing stuff anyway pretty much look for the *cheapest*, myeah; so it will be what it usually is, mostly crap. | [16:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | has seen "Chery" cars with suspension components dragging. | [16:39] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm subscribed to younghands comments feed on feedbot and see not I somehow overlooked those. thank you for the ping, my apologies for the latency, digesting now. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: no rush. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: lol. diana_coman: alright I will be extra careful if I'm considering a used car. | [16:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Hanbot is probably the best resource. Otherwise you can look at the local taxi fleets, see what they use and pay attention to the model years they drive, if everything is incredibly new… the potential for longevity may be lacking. Also, if you've got a handyman putting together your desk… avoid the "quirky" classics you may see in numbers. Down here the sir cooled VW Fusca is common. I've considered one, but… the | [17:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | maintenance isn't trivial. Gotta adjust valve spacing every oil change, etc. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that's most likely your fly there. | [17:27] |
| dorion: | diana_coman hm ? where there ? I'm not hearing a buzz. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-12#1950729 | [18:20] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-12 mircea_popescu: it's not an idle question on my part. there's actually reflected in the very history of the republic as logged, the case of some dude showing up years later to push ridoinculous claims. look for grubbles sometime. | [18:20] |
| dorion: | oic, hm. thanks for sharing. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (65h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (65h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (65h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (65h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (65h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (65h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (65h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (65h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (65h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (65h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (65h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (66h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (66h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [18:21] |
| jfw: | trinque or others: I'm seeing the following strange behavior with deedbot, not sure if user error or what. I sent a !!received-invoices by PM, to see if MP's invoice had gone through. It returned a paste encrypted to an unknown key. I tried again after a couple minutes and it didn't respond. I have not made a deposit yet, perhaps that's | [21:07] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-12 mircea_popescu: !!invoice jfw 0.055 http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-12#1950571 | [21:07] |
| jfw: | the problem, but I'd like to confirm before sending coin. | [21:07] |
| trinque: | when did you register with deedbot | [21:07] |
| jfw: | a bit over a month ago | [21:07] |
| jfw: | (can check precisely if you'd like) | [21:08] |
| jfw: | ah, 2019-09-15, ~2 months ago. | [21:09] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (61h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (61h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (61h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (61h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=100 E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (61h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (61h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (61h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (61h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (61h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (61h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (61h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (62h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (62h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 123mn total bids — | [22:21] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: since I'm making the trip, I'd be interested to meet up for a chat at greater leisure than merely picking up the gear would entail. I expect you'll be pretty busy but would you be up for grabbing a coffee? | [22:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: That'll be fine. I can also do tours of the city. | [22:45] |
| jfw: | great, I'd love to explore it a bit too. | [22:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | If you promise not to evangelize, asciilifeform can speak to the tour guide credentials. | [22:46] |
| jfw: | Are there dates that will be better or worse for you, within the window of early December? | [22:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | December 6, 7, and 8 are ExpoCannabis. I'll be networking that weekend and working local contacts. | [22:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | I really recommend being in Uruguay on a Sunday for the tourism potential the Feria Tristan Narvaja presents. | [22:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Also 6, 7, 8 you are probably too late or nearly too late to book a hostel bed if you were thinking about that. | [22:51] |
| jfw: | Do you know a well-located hostel (vis-a-vis lugging the gear) with private rooms + internet? That could be an option | [22:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | The Rambler Pocitos is the only hostel I'd recommend on this side of town. They have one private "double" room. That was rarely price competitive with the Punta Trouville hotel. | [22:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | So I just stayed in the barracks and made sure to book hotels for date nights. | [22:55] |
| jfw: | I don't need luxury but would just as soon not let inquiring minds get too curious what's in the big case… | [22:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | I never tried the "Regency Way" Hotel, but it is close though uphill. | [22:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Punta Trouville isn't luxury, but it is clean. Rooms are the same size and layout as the local studio apartments. Good location. | [22:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | A bit of peaking at room rates suggests substantially lower prices than 2017-2018 high season. Probably because Argentina's economy shat the bed in the interim. | [23:00] |
| jfw: | perhaps Dec 14-16 is a good stay, I recall you wanted the gear out by the 15th | [23:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: That can work. asciilifeform has his ticket set for 13th through 17th iirc | [23:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | 7th through 9th can also work | [23:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | I'll just shake more hands on the 6th and 7th | [23:03] |
| jfw: | ah ok | [23:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, December means you are about as likely to be surrounded by Portuguese as Spanish in most places. | [23:06] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: 12-17, but lengthy wait in peru. | [23:40] |
| asciilifeform: | landing in the wee hours of dec 13. | [23:42] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-13#1010082 << will confirm, BingoBoingo is a+++ guide. | [23:42] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 02:40:39 BingoBoingo: If you promise not to evangelize, asciilifeform can speak to the tour guide credentials. | [23:42] |
| jfw: | I believe it. | [23:43] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: what would you suggest for local comms – can one buy a SIM at the airport? | [23:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 11 Nov 2019
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (26h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (104h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (104h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (104h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (104h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (104h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (104h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (104h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (104h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (104h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (104h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (104h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (105h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (105h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [03:07] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Nov-2019#1009805 – except he has already a task to publish the business plan and whatever else he has and it is to be done BEFORE taking MP's and hanbot's time; do I need somehow to make this clearer? | [03:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-10 17:40:46 jfw: dorion: seems like the time is ripe for discussion with hanbot on our longer-term plans of brokerage/exchange; I expect she could examine you on it far more usefully than I've managed. | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: thank you for the availability and they will surely go and discuss but let them first set out properly just what it is ffs. | [03:31] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Nov-2019#1009807 – would love to see those! | [03:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-10 17:43:29 jfw: Our trip was fun, hiking "La India Dormida" near El Valle de Anton. I'll be blogging some pics. | [03:47] |
| spyked: | diana_coman, I've tried pressing v.pl to the latest v_add_manifest.vpatch and something weird occurs. it seems that the vtron sees the patch as having no antecedents, so it doesn't apply all the previous patches. output: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=r8IV ; any ideas? I'm using the v_fixes_vpatch_sync.vpatch vtron. | [06:25] |
| spyked: | prolly an easy fix for this would be to add a comment to v.pl itself… though the manifest is there to prevent precisely that ad-hoc changelist in the file header, lolz. | [06:30] |
| hanbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009860 << gotcha. i'll make sure i'm current and you're asked, in the future. i'm a little overexcited. | [07:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 03:31:16 diana_coman: hanbot: thank you for the availability and they will surely go and discuss but let them first set out properly just what it is ffs. | [07:40] |
| diana_coman: | spyked ah, you mean it sees it as a genesis on its own? hm; I'll have a think, thank you for trying it out. | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009865 – heh, they are too! and it's quite understandable after all those years of self-imposed "wait" (more like freeze). | [09:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 07:40:31 hanbot: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009860 << gotcha. i'll make sure i'm current and you're asked, in the future. i'm a little overexcited. | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, while it all waited this long without any good reason, it certainly can take now its *needed* time to be done properly; and dorion and jfw can learn a bit of patience with what things *require* too. | [09:35] |
| diana_coman: | spyked, I think the most reasonable thing to do there would be to regrind your vpatch and include the manifest; would you mind doing that? alternatively I can of course regrind my last vpatch and add a change to the v.pl file but there's no good reason for it as such really ie it's a spurious patch essentially. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did I mention I quite enjoy reading your reviews? because I do. | [10:14] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009871 <– aite, will do. what do you think, should I remove the change descriptions from v.pl as I add them to the manifest? IMO there's no need to keep them in both files. | [10:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 09:41:19 diana_coman: spyked, I think the most reasonable thing to do there would be to regrind your vpatch and include the manifest; would you mind doing that? alternatively I can of course regrind my last vpatch and add a change to the v.pl file but there's no good reason for it as such really ie it's a spurious patch essentially. | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: makes sense, yes. | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | basically moving it to standard aka manifest and that's that; thank you. | [10:25] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Nov-2019#1009812 << howdy hanbot, and thank you for the invite. I'll certainly take you up on it after I've worked through my backlog and am prepared to make better use of your time. | [10:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-10 17:57:31 hanbot: howdy jfw/dorion: i'm by no means an expert, it's MP you want for a definitive grilling, but i'd be happy to help out if i can. wednesday and saturday this coming week are prolly best for me, if y'all'd like to set something up. | [10:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 03:30:49 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Nov-2019#1009805 – except he has already a task to publish the business plan and whatever else he has and it is to be done BEFORE taking MP's and hanbot's time; do I need somehow to make this clearer? | [10:43] |
| dorion: | diana_coman no need to clarify; I didn't mention it in my plan for this week because I knew I have prerequisites. | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: no worries; that was anyway @ jfw. | [10:45] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009870 << for sure the freeze accrued costs and the thawing ain't free. I've gone through enough winters to know the snow melts to make mud for spring's flowers. | [10:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 09:35:16 diana_coman: for that matter, while it all waited this long without any good reason, it certainly can take now its *needed* time to be done properly; and dorion and jfw can learn a bit of patience with what things *require* too. | [10:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:20:47 dorion: diana_coman we've paid for it, and don't think the paying is done. | [10:52] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009858 – d'oh! You're right. Of course. First things first. | [13:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 03:30:49 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Nov-2019#1009805 – except he has already a task to publish the business plan and whatever else he has and it is to be done BEFORE taking MP's and hanbot's time; do I need somehow to make this clearer? | [13:10] |
| jfw: | And even without using brain, I could have expressed it as "hey dorion, you know your plans better than I, would it make sense to do this?" rather than "can you do this?" | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: much better indeed; relieved to hear it from you really. | [13:12] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Nov-2019#1009872 – glad to hear it's still so! | [13:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-11 10:14:39 diana_coman: jfw: did I mention I quite enjoy reading your reviews? because I do. | [13:12] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (11h27) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (89h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (89h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (89h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (89h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (89h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (89h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (89h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (89h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (89h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (89h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (89h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (90h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (90h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 141mn total bids — | [18:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (7h27) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (85h22) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (85h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (85h23) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (85h23) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (85h23) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (85h24) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (85h24) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (85h24) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=50mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (85h24) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (85h25) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (85h25) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (86h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (86h7) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:21] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 141mn total bids — | [22:21] |
#ossasepia Logs for 10 Nov 2019
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (50h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (128h36) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (128h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (128h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (128h37) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (128h37) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (128h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (128h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (128h38) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (128h38) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (128h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (128h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (129h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (129h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [03:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (45h41) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (123h36) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (123h36) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (123h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (123h37) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (123h37) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (123h37) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (123h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (123h38) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (123h38) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (123h38) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (123h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (124h20) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (124h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [08:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: read http://thewhet.net/2019/11/reading-ossasepia-logs-or-my-jig-is-up/ and then go to #trilema-hanbot and ask about procuring computer parts, will you? | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes master diana_coman I will do that this afternoon. First I'm going to be out for ~2 hours and then I have to write my week's review. | [12:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right. | [12:43] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (40h41) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (118h36) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (118h36) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (118h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (118h37) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (118h37) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (118h37) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (118h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (118h38) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (118h38) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (118h38) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (118h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (119h20) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (119h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [13:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I went surfing with an older expat today that I had met the first time I was in CR. He is fairly ignorant about programming, bitcoin, etc. but seems to have a genuine interest in learning. I talked to him about eulora and he said he would very much like to play. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so point him to here and help him join, sure. | [16:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Will do. | [16:09] |
| jfw: | dorion: seems like the time is ripe for discussion with hanbot on our longer-term plans of brokerage/exchange; I expect she could examine you on it far more usefully than I've managed. | [17:40] |
| jfw: | Think you can fit that into next week's plan and coordinate with her on scheduling? | [17:41] |
| jfw: | Our trip was fun, hiking "La India Dormida" near El Valle de Anton. I'll be blogging some pics. | [17:43] |
| jfw: | oh, the previous would also provide useful context for comparison in the discussion of ISP or whatever other ventures. | [17:45] |
| whaack: | jfw and dorion: welcome back! | [17:45] |
| jfw: | ty whaack | [17:45] |
| jfw: | hunkering down for remaining tasks | [17:48] |
| hanbot: | howdy jfw/dorion: i'm by no means an expert, it's MP you want for a definitive grilling, but i'd be happy to help out if i can. wednesday and saturday this coming week are prolly best for me, if y'all'd like to set something up. | [17:57] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (35h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (113h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (113h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (113h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (113h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (113h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (113h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (113h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (113h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (113h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (113h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (113h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (114h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (114h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (31h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (109h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (109h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (109h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (109h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (109h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (109h39) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (109h39) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (109h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (109h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (109h40) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (109h40) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (110h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (110h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [22:06] |
#ossasepia Logs for 09 Nov 2019
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009509 << you did to an extent w/o the specifics in your yh comment about understanding before I do anything more than tea. experience does pay though. | [00:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:47:40 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009459 – that I could have answered for you without the trouble; but then again, experience is not transferable, certainly. | [00:34] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009515 << yeah, when I walked away from kbd I realized I let myself get caught up in the hyperbole. | [00:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:52:26 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001752 – dorion , this is not something you can expect people to hear like that, no. | [00:36] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009516 << yeah, apologies. it was painful for me to reread too, but tried relaxing from beating myself black and blue; the follow up comments here helped that. the biggest pain was in my plan I didn't mention the subjects I asked about today. when I went | [00:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:52:26 ossabot: (asciilifeform) 2019-11-08 dorion: not for now, but for your own sanity I'd hope you seriously reflect on what you could've done better over the time, apart from 'not get involved' , 'left earlier'. | [00:40] |
| dorion: | about the link gathering, I let these others distract me. In a sense, I circled myself. | [00:40] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009517 << pssh. this was the link I meant to reply to there. | [00:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:53:21 whaack: dorion: ^ that was more painful for me to read than thimbronion's convos with the irc admins | [00:42] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009521 << in his mind, receiving fg for debt priced in btc is different risk model that receiving debt priced in btc. | [00:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:58:12 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009461 – do me a favour and tell me sometime what exactly you clarified and what's it worth. | [00:44] |
| dorion: | what it's worth is a different matter that has to be considered in broader context, but what it's worth is arguably the more important question now that I let it sink in. | [00:45] |
| dorion: | I didn't/don't see a difference in btc priced debt for btc or fg, which is why to me it was circle. | [00:46] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009528 << reading it a few times a day is paying off. | [00:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 19:00:42 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009474 – smart as usual, yes. | [00:47] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009534 << thanks for clarifying I was completely tripping :D | [00:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 19:03:33 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009478 – I know; and ftr that is precisely why I let you go and have your say, despite quite expecting this result. | [00:49] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009517 – I noticed this was a feelings-statement, thus unclear whether the information it carries is more about whaack's head or the outside world. Could be more helpful if accompanied by some analysis | [00:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:53:21 whaack: dorion: ^ that was more painful for me to read than thimbronion's convos with the irc admins | [00:51] |
| jfw: | What occured to me about the orig. line was a deficit of humility. E.g., it could well be the best thing for asciilifeform's sanity to part ways with MP; dorion's not in a position to know | [00:53] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009557 << me too. on the one hand there's the learn to like it aspect, "yeah it's going to be cold nov-apr, you gonna bitch about it or enjoy it ?" ; on the other there's a intellectual satisfaction/appreciation of how well humans provisioned tools to dominate mother nature. | [00:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 19:26:17 diana_coman: I sometimes miss …the cold; the frost and the snow and the contrast in the end, I suppose. | [00:54] |
| jfw: | dorion: here you perhaps meant "than receiving *btc* for debt priced in btc"? I was confused at least. | [00:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-09 00:44:16 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009521 << in his mind, receiving fg for debt priced in btc is different risk model that receiving debt priced in btc. | [00:56] |
| dorion: | jfw it could be that whaack was importing the analysis of that situation in the statement of pain. | [00:56] |
| dorion: | jfw yes, ty. | [00:56] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009565 – it's been a struggle, but of a healthy sort I reckon. | [01:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 19:34:53 diana_coman: jfw: how's the writing going taken like that in 1 hour chunks? | [01:03] |
| jfw: | A confession is that today's was the first without existing draft material to work from, and I didn't make it near the minimum word count by the bell. Since what I wanted to say in the segment was fresh in mind and words were flowing, I opted to take more time to see it through, ended up at 2.5h. | [01:08] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (74h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (152h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (152h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (152h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (152h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (152h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (152h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (152h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (152h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=2mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (152h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (152h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (152h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (153h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (153h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 92mn total bids — | [03:06] |
| jfw: | heading out, will be back Sunday | [08:01] |
| jfw: | Didn't manage the more sanely but they'll get published as usual. | [08:02] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 18:36:26 diana_coman: jfw: all right, just plan your reviews & plans so they still get published, more sanely on Friday I suppose. | [08:02] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (69h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (147h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (147h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (147h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (147h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (147h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (147h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (147h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (147h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (147h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (147h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (147h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (148h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (148h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 100mn total bids — | [08:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Nov-2019#1009609 – in that context "pain" was a reference really; that being said, it's indeed not the most useful comment as it stands. | [10:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-09 00:51:38 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009517 – I noticed this was a feelings-statement, thus unclear whether the information it carries is more about whaack's head or the outside world. Could be more helpful if accompanied by some analysis | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Nov-2019#1009620 – hm; as a once off it's fine but it shouldn't go on like this; and ftr, the lower limit I set there is …lower than usual, specifically because you have this problem. | [10:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-09 01:08:29 jfw: A confession is that today's was the first without existing draft material to work from, and I didn't make it near the minimum word count by the bell. Since what I wanted to say in the segment was fresh in mind and words were flowing, I opted to take more time to see it through, ended up at 2.5h. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Nov-2019#1009637 – I expect it will. | [10:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-09 08:02:56 jfw: Didn't manage the more sanely but they'll get published as usual. | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Nov-2019#1009611 – eh, he's first of all entirely out of line there, then getting high on empty airs and finally miscommunicating to the extreme; I suspect it's more of an example of derpy-dorion of some years ago finding himself talking before quite thinking. | [10:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-09 00:53:04 jfw: What occured to me about the orig. line was a deficit of humility. E.g., it could well be the best thing for asciilifeform's sanity to part ways with MP; dorion's not in a position to know | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | but what are pals for if not to insist on a proper thrashing for one another! | [10:29] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Nov-2019#1009654 << I didn't elaborate because I was already interjecting while diana_coman was speaking | [10:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-09 10:15:13 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Nov-2019#1009609 – in that context "pain" was a reference really; that being said, it's indeed not the most useful comment as it stands. | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so you know, wait, not like you forget what you wanted to say, do you? | [10:41] |
| whaack: | The reason it was particularly painful for me is the entire time I'm reading the conversation I have this sense that the q's are all loaded. But they're thoughtful too, so it's not entirely clear, perhaps that's just how I feel about them. And then the last line removes my doubt, and I feel exactly as asciilifeform said – that you came to preach not inquire. And the preaching is extra awful because as diana_coman says you are 'out | [10:41] |
| whaack: | of line' to be preaching to asciilifeform given your relative age,status,etc. | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now at least that's way clearer as to what you had to say, so good. | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | but no, it's not about age for sure and fwiw I don't think he purposefully loaded his questions. | [10:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes i was trying to nod along as you spoke, but i should have just waited and written the above | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the trouble above is that you should state this sort of things as what they are namely *your thinking* on/of this case; not a statement on dorion at all but your current understanding of this or that bit of interaction/discussion/whatever it is. | [10:45] |
| diana_coman: | there's a difference there and it matters. | [10:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and the main reason + benefit in stating your thinking on those is precisely to get feedback there too. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I appreciate the intention but don't worry at all about nodding along or not :) | [10:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Are you saying I need to explicitly state some version of "This is what I think ___" before I type ? An English teacher told me once, 'never prefix with "i think" – of course everything you say is what you think' | [10:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, the teacher is right there; but there is a matter of context and making it clear what's your aim/intention there | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | eg it's one thing to say "yo, that is painful to read!" and slightly different thing to say "that seems even more painful than x" | [10:53] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing, you are peers here and while I'm all for you giving feedback to one another, that's what it should be and nothing more: feedback. | [10:54] |
| diana_coman: | help, adding and so on, I won't make now extensive lists. | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does that make sense to you? | [10:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm not fully sure. I understand that feedback should be feedback and not teasing without purpose. | [11:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: What I don't understand is how what I said was not "my thinking" of the case. My guess is because it seems like i'm just piggy backing what you're saying without adding any input | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: exactly. | [11:04] |
| diana_coman: | if what you want to say is that you agree with me, there's not much need of it anyway and at any rate, it should be stated exactly like that "I fully agree with x there" rather than restating what was said. | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | ie either you add new content (in which case yes, you say what you have to say) OR you add your support to some already-said content, in which case you say *that*. | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | obv, you might also state disagreement with something said and again, there you say *that*, clearly. | [11:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. I made that analogy with thimbronion because I saw a similarity. But the explaining the similarity is the ~same as http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009515 | [11:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:52:26 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001752 – dorion , this is not something you can expect people to hear like that, no. | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: seeing similarity is something but it's not enough in and by itself; how was the similarity relevant? that's what you should focus on when talking: the relevance, not just the similarity/link. | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, I didn't reference thimbronion's previous discussion because the similarity there is rather superficial from what I can see so far; ie the root causes in those cases are quite different. | [11:11] |
| whaack: | Ok. Since I botched that the sentence "But the explaining the similarity" The similarity is diana_coman's statement "this is not something you can expect people to hear like that, no" applies to both scenarios. | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that is certainly so, yes. | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: worth adding that when you see a similarity but can't figure out if/how/why/whether relevant, you should simply …ask | [11:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but you are right, the causes of the 'text that will not be well received' are completely different | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there, you still got something out of saying it, as it should always be the case anyway; good :) | [11:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: On another topic, I finished An Outpost of Progress last night. My mind didn't wander off at all compared to as with The Odyssey. I pretty much read it in one sitting, with maybe 1,2 interruptions. | [11:17] |
| diana_coman: | well, it is quite a different style for sure; I gather you enjoyed it, too. | [11:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes it was a fun read with a few paragraphs that interrupt the story to give something to think about | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | so think about it, maybe re-read, think some more; why not. | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | and then at some point write-up the result of the thinking. | [11:19] |
| whaack: | Two quotes I wrote down were: "Few men realize that their life, the very essence of their character, their capabilities and their audacities, are only the expression of their belief in the safety of their surrounding" and "Everybody shows a respectful deference to certain sounds that he and his fellows can make – but about feelings we really know nothing. Nobody knows what suffering or sacrifice mean except, perhaps the victims of | [11:20] |
| whaack: | the mysterious purpose of these illusions." (sry if these are not exact, they are transcribed from my notebook) | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you are entirely unfamiliar with Conrad, it would probably help to read his biography too, even if it's just main events, mainly for the context (for that matter it's not boring at all) | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, not badly chosen. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but seriously, this is what a blog is for, your online notebook (and then some more) | [11:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes I will blog my reflections. | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | have fun! | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [11:22] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (64h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (142h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (142h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (142h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (142h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (142h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (142h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (142h39) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (142h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (142h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (142h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (142h40) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (143h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (143h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 100mn total bids — | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (59h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (137h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (137h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (137h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (137h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (137h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (137h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (137h39) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (137h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (137h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (137h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (137h40) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (138h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (138h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (55h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=1mn E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (133h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (133h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (133h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (133h37) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (133h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (133h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (133h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (133h38) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=11mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (133h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (133h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (133h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (134h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (134h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 102mn total bids — | [22:07] |
#ossasepia Logs for 08 Nov 2019
| dorion: | !Qlater tell diana_coman http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=OQk1 | [00:40] |
| lobbesbot: | dorion: The operation succeeded. | [00:40] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009264 << agreed, which was a part of the more to pay. | [00:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 15:12:16 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009251 – except it should all be on V already. | [00:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:20:47 dorion: diana_coman we've paid for it, and don't think the paying is done. | [00:45] |
| dorion: | jfw perhaps diana_coman was referring to doing that analysis well before showing up last quarter, rather than what you seemed to infer as since joining. or moreso reporting before cuntoo was started. | [00:49] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (98h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [03:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009275 – all right. | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 22:56:21 jfw: diana_coman: I'm uncertain if http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009267 is meant in jest, but to be clear now: I didn't take that lead because indeed I thought it would distract from current priorities, and didn't say so at the time because of http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002527. | [03:36] |
| lobbesbot: | diana_coman: Sent 2 hours and 56 minutes ago: <dorion> http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=OQk1 | [03:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009278 – you're welcome. | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 23:00:47 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009247 – and moreover, as occurred to me once I was in a cab and unwinding a bit, thank you for the pushing, because that's what I signed up for after all. | [03:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009285 – exactly this, yes. | [03:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 00:49:04 dorion: jfw perhaps diana_coman was referring to doing that analysis well before showing up last quarter, rather than what you seemed to infer as since joining. or moreso reporting before cuntoo was started. | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I got that, I'll look at it later today. | [03:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eh, just a tiny fly what rabbit | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | plenty of buzzes like that with effect ~0 | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, feel free to get all the lolz out of it on your blog if/when you have time for it | [06:51] |
| diana_coman: | hi alex__c | [07:37] |
| diana_coman: | curaj, zi ceva, lolz. | [07:41] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (93h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [08:06] |
| whaack: | lobbes: so you know i'm not currently working on this http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-07#1950077 . I'd be happy to pick it back up if diana_coman thinks I should. For now I have a bandaid solution that fixes the problem here http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/#comment-132056 But I don't know why the white spaces are being stripped for mircea_popescu's original | [09:58] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-07 lobbes: the 'pingback linkback' selector is still suffering from the strip-spaces bug whaack found in the xmlrpc.php, but as that is outside of the scope of the logotron tree I figure that can wait for another day and this bot can be put to bed. | [09:58] |
| whaack: | code. | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you make your computer first :) | [09:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | The computer making and planning seems like a blogable thing | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | he'll certainly blog it and with pics too as already stated http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008790 | [10:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 03:39:11 diana_coman: whaack: why not actually buy the components and build yourself a desktop computer? take pics and document the process too and you've got a great post as well. | [10:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: of course that is task #1. There should be some downtime though between ordering and receiving parts. And yes BingoBoingo I will blog it, that was part of diana_coman's original instructions | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how long does it take for them to deliver the parts? | [10:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I do not know yet. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | all right, let me know when you have something concrete so there isn't otherwise downtime just waiting for them | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | plenty of stuff to do otherwise anyway | [10:07] |
| whaack: | I have found that DHL, boxcorreos, and UPS are the companies that deliver to my area. I had trouble setting up my account with DHL, and I have not tried UPS yet as I learned that it was an option last night. | [10:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I suspect blogging before ordering may be wise for the potential comments you may receive. The type of board used in the Qntra server may be interesting if you have a limited battery room to work with. | [10:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | As an example | [10:10] |
| whaack: | I am considering ordering two small items with boxcorreos and UPS and comparing the services before choosing one to deliver all the parts. | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the trouble with dhl? | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, if there's that much to it, might as well write-up the search for a company to deliver, too | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | can't hurt to have it written down for future ref if nothing else | [10:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | DHL has been fine down here for taking incoming once the eleborate game of telephone incurred by other people ordering stuff stopped. | [10:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The first problem is their website is a nightmare to navigate. Their select inputs are all hooked to triggers and so you get popups as you are filling out forms. The main issue is that from my understanding I need to call the local office and get setup with an import account number. | [10:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | You'll probably need an import account number or authorization no matter who you go through for the couriering. | [10:14] |
| whaack: | So after the initial effort I put into figuring out DHL I spoke with my landlord and she advised me to use boxcorreos. Another local recommended UPS | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thou shall disable popups! | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | block them & kill them with fire, what is that. | [10:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | When Pizarro used the "amazon global" plus "DHL" combo to import assorted things, there was a bit of necessary binder navigation required with DHL, but they did competently handle the local Aduanas interactions. | [10:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol well you need javascript for the site. it's not opening up a new window, sorry if i used the wrong terminology | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you plan going to the USA for Christmas/new year? | [10:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, I don't plan to go back for quite some time. | [10:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | It might be better to simply go to their office and get set up. It's not unimaginable that most office folks at DHL Costa Rica know each other well enough that when problems emerge you can say "Eugenia me ha dicho…" | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | ah, kk; and yes, probably best to just go to local office really | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter I'd even say you probably *want* to go and talk to them since there won't be that many so best if you get to know them and they you, what | [10:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's what worked here. The only thing I ever needed their site for was tracking. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: makes sense really. | [10:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | They'll also be able to tell you what will and won't fly with the local aduanas as long as you ask the right questions | [10:20] |
| whaack: | Alright thank you, that is certainly worth doing. That moves UPS up on the list since afaik they are the only ones with an office near me, but I will investigate further | [10:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | hasn't worked with Latino UPS because it doesn't seem to exist this far south. | [10:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | I imagine the situation is going to be similar for the reason that… In small countries they can't afford or won't need big office staff collections. They'll probably have 15-45 people in jobs not doing gruntwork and handling all of the procedural things. This means 1 Alejandro, 1 Eugenia, etc, and collecting these names can be a big help. | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | good points there BingoBoingo | [10:30] |
| whaack: | haha okay I will make sure to take note of their names and try to get to know them. | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | good practice for your Spanish too. | [10:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: ty whaack: The shipping folks are people to practice the Spanish with, but don't get too worried if they won't buddy up to you. You want the names when you order things because someone will likely give you instructions via email and when you show up at the counter, they will need to know who sent you the email in order to get your answers in a timely manner | [10:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | Say you drop off copies of your ID for the Aduanas. The desk clerk can either spend a lot of time navigating their system and looking you up, or they can email Betina and have exactly what they need to service you. | [10:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | One big help early was making pre-mission cheat sheets where I wrote down particular questions and left some space to scribble clarifications. I don't know how well your ears and mouth have conformed to the local accent, so writing is always a fallback. | [10:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | In my experience writing is the best fallback when clarity is essential. Refuse to let them retreat to google translate on their phones. | [10:40] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: The CR accent is one of the easier ones to understand, imo. That being said I will still lose a decent bit of whatever they say to me, so that cheat sheet is a great idea. | [10:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Over time and with more conversation hours, your ears will lose less. | [10:40] |
| whaack: | claro! | [10:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | And if anyone has a particularly degraded accent for their lack of teeth, in my experience whatever they had to say probably wasn't ever that important in the first place. | [10:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | Actually, your experience will probably differ on that point because you do live in the country. | [10:45] |
| whaack: | lol i recall a few 'do i not understand you because of Spanish issues or because you're talking nonsense'? moments from when i first moved here | [10:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, the most useful verb tense that gets pushed too late in most courses developed by primarily English speaking folks is the imperative tense. | [10:46] |
| diana_coman: | eh, imperative is a matter of manner even more than tense. | [10:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | But an inability to deploy it when necessary can lead to a lot of tension | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: certainly. | [10:49] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, inabilities in general don't go well with imperatives, lol. | [10:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | "Qué diciste" "Vayanse" and "Vete ala Mierda" are particularly useful phrases to commit to muscle memory for quickly handling pichis and other bipeds who refuse to make themselves intelligible. | [10:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Though deploying those phrases risks incurring dumb Latino bravado. | [10:52] |
| whaack: | lol | [10:53] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: I'll be arriving in Liberia on Nov. 26th. If you want me to bring in some smaller items let me know. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, how's it going thimbronion ? | [11:36] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: going well. I've been working on getting my blog in order and have a translation coming soon. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: well, the more important part is re next steps but at any rate, good to hear it's going well otherwise. | [11:40] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009296 << cool, I'll get around to blogging it eventually, but putting in fridge for now, no space on the backburner. | [11:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 06:37:12 diana_coman: dorion: eh, just a tiny fly what rabbit | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: aha; and take it lightly at any rate, more lulz than anything else. | [11:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Auctions for the former Pizarro hardware have gone live, auction IDs 1064 to 1074 for folks wishing to query auctionbot with !Xview | [11:49] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: In terms of next steps, I need to write a blog post with my thoughts on it. But first I want to ensure my blog is in proper working order. As of now it's a) not automatically backed up, and b) it still has the bug where it sends me to the install page if I try to view the home page while logged in. I've been digging into the source to remedy this. | [11:49] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I have successfully fixed the image uploading issue, but I have more to learn there as well. | [11:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aye | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: all right. | [11:50] |
| thimbronion: | eh, not blog post, article, sorry. | [11:55] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: Thanks! Hopefully that won't be necessary but there's a chance I'll need that one extra cable I forgot. Where are you staying in Guanacaste? | [12:06] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: I have a hotel booked near the airport in Liberia, but I don't plan to stay there the whole time. Haven't decided where else to go yet. Where are you at? | [12:09] |
| whaack: | I'm in Playa Junquillal | [12:11] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: can you recommend any hotels near there? I need decent internet and a desk basically because I'll be working. | [12:16] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: Not off the top of my head but I can do a bit of ground research. | [12:18] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: Thanks! much appreciated. | [12:21] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Do you have an estimate of how much I should be paying for shipping 1-3k usd worth of hardware? The UPS website calculator tool seems to give a lower bound of 00 | [12:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I do not know the peculiarities of Costa Rica. USD value of the hardware is one factor. The other is weight. | [12:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | If UPS is giving a 900 USD estimate to ship, it may be time to see what a round trip ticket with at least one checked back to Miami costs. | [12:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | *bag | [12:36] |
| whaack: | sighs | [12:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or price a different courier | [12:37] |
| whaack: | I will try the latter option first | [12:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or source a case locally and just ship guts | [12:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | You may want to try locating the store from http://trilema.com/2018/so-i-went-to-buy-a-new-hard-drive/ | [12:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | Whatever time of yours the exercise takes is likely to pay dividends in familiarity with your environment | [12:40] |
| dorion: | whaack Miami -> San Jose forwarding agents are likely to exist (they're quite abundant in Panama). | [12:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | Even if your current spoken spanish ability makes the exercise a frustrating one, this sort of mission is the kind you can look back on later to gauge your conquest of the local language. | [12:42] |
| whaack: | dorion: Yeah I found a couple of them. They look almost too-good-to-be-true. That's why I am considering ordering a small part first through them and see how it turns out. | [12:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Probably worth it to share the ones you found. | [12:44] |
| whaack: | boxcorreos.com and crbox.cr | [12:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | from boxcorreos: "La mercancÃa será consignada en un Depósito de Aduanas y se requerirá contratar a una Sociedad de Intermediación Aduanera (SIA) para la nacionalización." appears less than full service | [12:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or less than full service if they decide to throw their hands up in the air and be confused. Otherwise it may be worth a test. | [12:49] |
| dorion: | whaack as a reference point, I pay ~/lb here for air import, don't have numbers offhand for sea. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | dorion: I was hoping for a price more in that range :) | [12:54] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Hmm ty, I did not catch that. Where did you read that? | [12:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Their FAQ | [12:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | Gotta build the habit of reading ALL the instructions | [12:59] |
| diana_coman: | ^^^^ | [13:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | When a local says something works for them, there are all sorts of internalized things in their heads but not yours. This disjunction means that there is a large space to encounter rough edges if your assumptions and the local assumptions cleave. | [13:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the gun not the pebble ALWAYS. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | alternatively, just use a local if you got a relationship you trust, ofc. | [13:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | Reading the whole codigo penal last month wasn't just about seeing what I could hand the damned basement operators for. It was also to see how much I can push and where before I work myself into a corner that allows them to push. | [13:03] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes. I did read their FAQ but I did it in English and perhaps discounted that one because I thought 'restricted' package was for firearms/plant seeds etc. | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | throws a pebble at whaack | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | be very weary of "discounting" stuff, seriously. | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | and as a rule, read the stuff in local language because quite often the english translation …misses/skips over bits | [13:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the translation is ~ the original Spanish tossed in Google Translate | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so why on earth would you eat *that* esp while you are learning Spanish; sheesh. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (88h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (166h36) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (166h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (166h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (166h37) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (166h37) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (166h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (166h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (166h38) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (166h38) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (166h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (166h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (167h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (167h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [13:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [13:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It's clear now that the restricted items clause is very likely something put there as a place boxcorreos can point to should they run into any trouble. I will go through their site again in Spanish, as well as the other site (crbox.cr) | [13:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It may be that's what it means, but in practice it means you have to read more. | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the point is that you want to *know* about what might trip you over; dunno, sometimes I start suspecting that everything worked way too smoothly for a too long time for people. | [13:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | For all I know doing a quick pass, the coin cell battery on a motherboard could be a hazmat/flammables/explosives issue per the local code. | [13:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | It almost certainly shouldn't be, but very hard to bank on that. | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | iirc laptop batteries are certainly classed as "dangerous items" so … | [13:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Indeed | [13:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | The coin cell may have an inherently safer chemistry, but… its still a lithium battery. | [13:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | Which could mean it's fine so long as its installed or it could mean the whole thing is subject to a paperwork swamp | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know what, get some conrad to your reading list there, can't hurt | [13:22] |
| diana_coman: | joseph conrad | [13:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. Is there something by him I should start with? | [13:23] |
| whaack: | be back in a bit | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you read anything by him? | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | an outpost of progress came to mind really, what can I tell you. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | now I don't know if it should still be called of progress but anyways. | [13:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I have not read anything by him. Okay I found a copy here https://b-ok.cc/book/5218683/887efa | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's easy to find and a good story at that, yes; just …mind the parallels, lolz. | [13:47] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: possibly for you too ^ | [13:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Here is my current process. I am going through boxcorreos site with my Spanish dictionary at hand. I am digesting all the text on the site. When I see a word I don't know, I look up the definition and then write down the word and the definition in my Spanish notebook. If I don't know a word in the definition I look up that word as well, and I repeat that process if necessary for the subsequent definitions. This is movi | [14:25] |
| whaack: | ng at a snail's pace, but it seems the thorough way to do the job. | [14:25] |
| whaack: | bbl. | [14:41] |
| dorion: | kicked from #asciilifeform by asciilifeform!~asciilife@unaffiliated/asciilifeform [dorion] << glad it was restricted to 30 mins. | [17:12] |
| dorion: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001753 << if preach maps to aiming to clarify the extent to apparent (to me) contradictions are going to be resolved to assess the extent to which I can trust moving forward, I supposed I preached. If I'm hallucinating the contradictions, I'd appreciate being set straight. | [17:19] |
| ossabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-08 asciilifeform: dorion: so after all you came to preach. | [17:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: How many people have you met that ended up dying of drink or drug within a week or two of the last time you saw them? | [17:26] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo I guess I'm fortunate in that none. | [17:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | One great truth of this world is that you can't force help onto someone who doesn't want it. | [17:28] |
| dorion: | aye. | [17:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | The saddest one I've ever met was this girl Zoe. Last time I saw her, she had that healthy early recovery glow setting in after a couple weeks of being clean. Several hours later for unknowable reasons she shot up, got high, and died. | [17:32] |
| dorion: | this is why I started with questions ; I wasn't 100\% motivated to help, but was also qualifying to see the extent to which his isp could be referred customers. | [17:33] |
| dorion: | sorry to hear BingoBoingo | [17:33] |
| dorion: | though my questions did help me clarify his position on the bonds, though I'll have to think more the extent to which it's a distinction w/o difference. | [17:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | These things happen. Less frequently with AA meetings than NA meetings, but from folks that frequent both groups, NA seems to have a lot more young person funerals. | [17:36] |
| lobbes: | BingoBoingo: my dad went quick like that (according to rest of my family), though not that quick. Was about 4 months after drying out that he died; he went back at it hard | [17:36] |
| lobbes: | of course, he was dried out against his will really (as in, I dun think he wanted help) | [17:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: That also saw a couple times. | [17:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, the point is if you want to help someone… rhetorical cornering doesn't work | [17:38] |
| dorion: | lobbes my regards | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | dorion: ty, but no worries. Life is a bitch | [17:39] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo thank you, what does help ? | [17:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Being available to help when they ask for it. | [17:40] |
| lobbes: | but they gotta ask for it first | [17:40] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo makes sense | [17:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | If someone isn't convinced they have a problem enough to ask for help, then they don't have a problem you can help with yet. | [17:41] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo that line resonated and then I thought perhaps that's why asking for help is #1 in the pageboy's pledge | [17:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: It's also prominent in pop culture because creatives tend towards the drink, addiction, and at least some exposure to one of the 12 step programs | [17:47] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo and someone's not going to ask someone they don't know and respect, which was me in this situation. | [17:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Nah, that's actually somewhat common in the right environment. | [17:52] |
| dorion: | I did ask because the circles I brought to the table seem evident and I'd not seen them pointed out directly. | [17:53] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo hmm, my assumptions are being torn to shreds, but all for the better. | [17:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Anyways, I respect asciilifeform enough I'm not going to try to sell him anything he doesn't want. I hope his business comes upon the sorts of good problems of growth that will get him to reconsider aspects of his methods for his own profit. | [17:59] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (83h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (161h36) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (161h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (161h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (161h37) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (161h37) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (161h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (161h38) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (161h38) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=2mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (161h38) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (161h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (161h39) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (162h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (162h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [18:07] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 92mn total bids — | [18:07] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo make sense, and I hope he manages to profit as well. It's why I asked the questions. | [18:07] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo and for sure I appreciate your feedback and guidance. | [18:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, sometimes in life thing click, a light goes off, and you wanna just tell everyone this great thing you've discovered. In practice the discovery wasn't that novel and for the environment already being polluted by marketing, talking about how you now see the light just ends up alienating people you could have helped. | [18:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | More successful can be talking with them about how "how bad it was", but still the person you are talking to has to be ready. | [18:10] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo that hits home. acting out the benefit of the change such that people ask you about how they can get some of it too is a better use of time/energy for both you and them. | [18:12] |
| dorion: | bbl ; thanks again BingoBoingo | [18:13] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009303 << gotcha, (and ty for letting me know as this helps me plan). I may try to cut open the xmlrpc.php as my next move then. If I find anything I'll let you know | [18:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 09:58:11 whaack: lobbes: so you know i'm not currently working on this http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-07#1950077 . I'd be happy to pick it back up if diana_coman thinks I should. For now I have a bandaid solution that fixes the problem here http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/#comment-132056 But I don't know why the white spaces are being stripped for mircea_popescu's original | [18:15] |
| whaack: | lobbes: another path that may be worth exploring is whether the pingback _receiver_ should really be the server trying to construct a linkback. perhaps it should be the server _sending_ the pingback that alters their return address. this has the dubious advantage of making pingbacks that one sends to heathen blogs have linkbacks with the new selection mechanism | [18:23] |
| lobbes: | whaack: that is an interesting idea. I will indeed explore that path, ty | [18:26] |
| lobbes: | it makes sense too, in that the article that sends should be responsible for the linkback to itself | [18:28] |
| whaack: | lobbes: yes i think it is the correct way, especially since when you try to construct linkbacks for others you're still depending on them having the selection mechanism | [18:31] |
| whaack: | so the only gain would be for blogs that have the selection mechanism setup, but not proper pingback linkbacks, which hopefully will be a small set | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009459 – that I could have answered for you without the trouble; but then again, experience is not transferable, certainly. | [18:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 17:33:05 dorion: this is why I started with questions ; I wasn't 100\% motivated to help, but was also qualifying to see the extent to which his isp could be referred customers. | [18:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 13:06:36 diana_coman: fwiw I fully understand the need and the idea that it's possible to help there; unfortunately though I have long experience that shows it won't work but experience can't be directly passed on, obviously, it is what it is. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009448 – it will be worth your time for sure; alternatively you should make some tico friends and talk it over with them, it'll be more enjoyable and you'll still learn from it a lot. | [18:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 14:25:28 whaack: diana_coman: Here is my current process. I am going through boxcorreos site with my Spanish dictionary at hand. I am digesting all the text on the site. When I see a word I don't know, I look up the definition and then write down the word and the definition in my Spanish notebook. If I don't know a word in the definition I look up that word as well, and I repeat that process if necessary for the subsequent definitions. This is movi | [18:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay I will try to do both | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-08#1001752 – dorion , this is not something you can expect people to hear like that, no. | [18:52] |
| ossabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-08 dorion: not for now, but for your own sanity I'd hope you seriously reflect on what you could've done better over the time, apart from 'not get involved' , 'left earlier'. | [18:52] |
| whaack: | dorion: ^ that was more painful for me to read than thimbronion's convos with the irc admins | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009456 – add to this that even if they say they want it, it still doesn't always mean they want it; and more to the point: you can NEVER save people against their own wishes. | [18:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 17:28:50 BingoBoingo: One great truth of this world is that you can't force help onto someone who doesn't want it. | [18:57] |
| diana_coman: | whatever they might be saying. | [18:57] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009461 – do me a favour and tell me sometime what exactly you clarified and what's it worth. | [18:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 17:35:33 dorion: though my questions did help me clarify his position on the bonds, though I'll have to think more the extent to which it's a distinction w/o difference. | [18:58] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009463 – sorry to hear that, lobbes . | [18:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 17:36:13 lobbes: BingoBoingo: my dad went quick like that (according to rest of my family), though not that quick. Was about 4 months after drying out that he died; he went back at it hard | [18:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Right. And just because someone genuinely wants it one minute doesn't mean they'll keep wanting it even hours later | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: tell me about it; yes, quite so. | [18:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman and bingoboingo: should I also read the terms and conditions of these sites? | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009474 – smart as usual, yes. | [19:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 17:46:01 dorion: BingoBoingo that line resonated and then I thought perhaps that's why asking for help is #1 in the pageboy's pledge | [19:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That may be a bit much. Skim. Look for red flags. | [19:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at the very least scan them, yes; they tend to be boilerplate so once you read one you'll spot the differences but at least have a look. | [19:01] |
| diana_coman: | heh, crossing over with BingoBoingo there. | [19:01] |
| whaack: | :D | [19:03] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009478 – I know; and ftr that is precisely why I let you go and have your say, despite quite expecting this result. | [19:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 17:53:13 dorion: I did ask because the circles I brought to the table seem evident and I'd not seen them pointed out directly. | [19:03] |
| diana_coman: | for your experience there, nothing else. | [19:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The first fellow who asked me to help him work on the steps and actually managed to make the mandatory phone call the next day. He was they taurine sort. Blue collar guy, worked a lucrative construction niche, estranged wife and kids… Eventually he disappears for a couple weeks before the news hits. Dead at 45. | [19:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | ~1 month later I'm in Uruguay. | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: for all the troubles and the problems, and fwiw I still think you grew enormously from it. | [19:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I suspect I did as well, but the first couple months where I didn't function well in the language seems like it invovled a bit of a period of regression | [19:08] |
| diana_coman: | growth is usually like that, back and forth and all sorts; it's not a clean thing, nor can it be. | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose I have some more articles to translate now, huh. | [19:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | If nothing else, I can literally tell people I came a long way | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: heh, you have full rights to say so in more ways than one, I suspect. | [19:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | ~1/4 of the earth's circumference eyeballing the measure | [19:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: are you starting with the ISPs by distance or by preference of location or how? | [19:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not much by contemporary Euro standards, but quite a bit by North America standards | [19:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'm starting with the Atlantic Rim – Fortaleza, Central America, Panama | [19:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | And Iberia | [19:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | Mostly by preference of location and how likely there is to be a concentration of ISPs wherever I land | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I really hope it works out the way you want it, too. | [19:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | From there Eastern Europe, informed by MP's grand tour | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | well, bread is certainly better there :) and if you are partial to more than 2 seasons, that might be a bonus too. | [19:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | 2, 3, or 4 seasons are fine. the prospect of just one season gives me pause | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: any chance of parallegal in some Spanish-speaking area there? | [19:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Putting out some feelers, definitely a chance, but how strong of a chance is yet to clarify | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | I sometimes miss …the cold; the frost and the snow and the contrast in the end, I suppose. | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: fwiw I got the impression that *that* would be more of what you'd really want; so I don't know, if you really want it, make it happen somehow. | [19:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I suspect if I get a sustain my self in place job, a transition into paralegal work will happen over time. | [19:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Apparently the dispute between myself and the damned basement has been very… loud in local legal circles | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | I wouldn't be surprised if it were ….loud, yes; and all the more reason to try then to make it happen if you'd want it. | [19:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | After I Qntra up some lulz tonight I'll dump a bunch of Uruguay reflection into the blog to clear the brain up for a focused grind. | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: sounds like a plan; I'll go offline in a bit too. | [19:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, I set the start date for the focused effort Monday with the intention of tidying up the other loose ends through Sunday night. | [19:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the writing going taken like that in 1 hour chunks? | [19:34] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: makes sense. | [19:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, the oddest thing about Montevideo's latitude is… it combines the profound winter reduction of sunlight with a noticable lack of actual freezing cold | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009523 << nah, ty but no worries. I only brought it up to add anecdotal experience to BingoBoingo's point that "rhetorical cornering is -ev against a person that doesn't want help" | [19:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 18:58:55 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009463 – sorry to hear that, lobbes . | [19:42] |
| lobbes: | BingoBoingo: does it ever snow there? (I cannot recall you ever mentioning it) | [19:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | lobbes: In some remote part of the city. Inside the city I have not seen. Then again I heard no tornados and a few month of arrival a tornado parked itself in the river off the Puertito de Buceo. | [19:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | I think I *might* have seen frost, but it seemed more wind chill driven than the legit low temperature veggie killing phenomena back in old country. | [19:44] |
| lobbes: | makes sense I guess. With oceans being a thermal reservoir of sorts, certain coastal areas can sometimes be spared from very frigid temps | [19:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | The water here is a very odd sort littoral because the river is so damn wide. It has salt, but ~90km east in Punta del Este is where they formally draw the line for river versus ocean | [19:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | Southern Illinois routinely got both much hotter and much colder than any temperature I have experienced in Montevideo | [19:58] |
| lobbes: | yeah, the cod where I grew up was latitudinally closer to the pole than in northern ohio, but damn the hot/cold extremes were much greater in ohio (/me recalls one winter where it was -10 F for two months straight…) | [20:03] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (79h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1064 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:37:54.887600 (157h37) >>> Selling the server formerly known as UY1 no FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1065 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:11.900525 (157h37) >>> Selling the server formerly used for S.MG Testing with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1066 O=5mn LB=5mn E=2019-11-15 21:38:28.450290 (157h38) >>> Selling the server formerly used as S.MG Production with FUCKGOATS, no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1067 O=22mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:38.780227 (157h38) >>> Server formerly used for Qntra and DNS, no FG no disks; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1068 O=100 LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:38:56.904013 (157h38) >>> Two switches used in the late Pizarro's server rack; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1069 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:12.652465 (157h38) >>> Former Pizarro RockChip Plant, no used USB drives; buyer to take possession at his own expense. Notes. Tools In photo are included for scale as the plant as configured requires more than one rack unit of height to mount. Pliers not included in plant, but screwdriver is negotiable. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1070 O=55mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:24.229818 (157h39) >>> Lot of 5 unused Samsung 1 TB SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1071 O=33mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:39:41.809261 (157h39) >>> Lot of 2 Unused and 1 lightly used Samsung SSDs; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1072 O=1 LB=2mn E=2019-11-15 21:39:57.226390 (157h39) >>> Lot of 18 FUCKGOATS in anti-static bags; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1073 O=40mn LB=40mn E=2019-11-15 21:40:16.614209 (157h39) >>> Lot of 4 FUCKGOATS used; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1074 O=1mn LB=None E=2019-11-15 21:40:28.384179 (157h40) >>> 1U chassis with two servers and one power supply, one unused 6TB WD Red 3.5" HDD; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1075 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:21.919762 (158h21) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( UPPER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1076 O=10mn LB=10mn E=2019-11-15 22:22:32.404026 (158h22) >>> Refurb FUCKGOATS ( LOWER in http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/pz_fg_full.jpg ) ; buyer pays all postage and customs fees. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 92mn total bids — | [22:06] |
#ossasepia Logs for 07 Nov 2019
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009098 << I will be doing some planning this weekend re: my next few weeks of work. I'll put said plan on the blog once I have it hashed out | [00:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 15:28:53 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009074 – ok, so when's your eta to be done with putting those things in order so you can really get going? | [00:55] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (122h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [03:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009174 – myeah but listen here, wtf was that latency and dropping stuff there? | [03:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 18:42:19 jfw: nope, ty. | [03:09] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009177 – oh hey, glad to hear it! | [03:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 18:56:27 hanbot: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Jul-2019#999045 << i'm thoroughly enjoying my logreading, haha. i've been missing out! | [03:09] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: re time, there was an initial burst and then I reigned it in to something more sustainable, meaning about 3.5 hours per day averaged out; it's usually reading younghands.club on Monday morning + daily half hour in the morning, some attention as/if needed during the day and 2 hours from 7pm (though not on all days). | [03:16] |
| diana_coman: | then of course if people start spinning and answering like jfw yesterday as if everyone had all the time in the world to wait for them, there is waste and I'm currently considering measures against it. | [03:18] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: it's worth saying though that the above time is active time; there was and times is a lot of background-thinking that is much harder to measure. | [03:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009087 – you are welcome. | [03:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:35:25 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009044 << and a beautifully economizing description at that, thank you! | [03:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009184 – sounds good and I'll read it. | [03:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 00:55:14 lobbes: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009098 << I will be doing some planning this weekend re: my next few weeks of work. I'll put said plan on the blog once I have it hashed out | [03:33] |
| hanbot: | diana_coman thanks for the details –and yes i'm sure there's quite a column of less tangible organization etc. i was especially curious re daily commitment against what i'm reading, so your estimate helps | [07:28] |
| diana_coman: | np; if you are still going through July, that's certainly within the initial-burst, I suspect it even shows; then again, starting things tends to require some burst in my experience. | [07:56] |
| hanbot: | am well into august, and the burst is pretty clear, yeah. incidentally, i gather you did some funnel-making online to trawl for noobish/forlorn coders? was that more successful than the meattalk you gave etc? | [08:01] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (117h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [08:06] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: certainly more successful since basically all you see is ~that; meattalk resulted in full 0. | [08:12] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: though the online was initial stage ie manual only; the issue in the end turned out that I'm unpersuaded as to those forums being of much use (webstack derping oh god) | [08:13] |
| diana_coman: | basically I do *not* want coders but …live people, ffs. | [08:16] |
| diana_coman: | apparently a rare sort. | [08:16] |
| diana_coman: | ftr I should say that meattalk works for as long as meattalk only ie I'd need to kick them loads to get online and frankly I don't think they are worth *that* much. | [08:18] |
| diana_coman: | ave1: what happened to you? | [08:43] |
| hanbot: | diana_coman incredibly rare, in my (well international by now!) experience; people i meet face to face seem to have the interest, but not the proficiency, to find their way into the proverbial paper bag. online, i typically find the opposite, "why should i drop my tweeting/circlejerking/candy crush to jump hoops". so far and for a long while the only answer i've got is casting a wider net and not going nuts over it meanwhile. | [09:01] |
| hanbot: | it's especially in light of all that that i'm positive impressed with #o here. | [09:03] |
| hanbot: | *positively, lol | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: noted, thank you; I was/am reconsidering precisely the wider net & target part; fwiw in general I tend to notice & bring out the live people if/when I meet some but a bit at a loss as to where it's more likely to run into them | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot: thank you :) | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | possibly a working eulora would even help with that tbh | [09:04] |
| hanbot: | i'm sure | [09:05] |
| jfw: | Apologies for that latency diana_coman. In this case I am guilty of multitasking: had switched to browser window and got drawn into reading; the former being the stupid part since the latter is predictable. I see how this was disrespectful of your time. | [11:09] |
| jfw: | on dropped items, what's coming to mind is: 1) http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008850 from the previous day, 2) the news of weekend trip which I should have said first thing not last, possibly 3) http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009158 – had you wanted me to track him down right then? | [11:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:51:28 diana_coman: jfw: do you have certainty re supply there esp since older model? | [11:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 18:13:43 diana_coman: jfw grab dorion too and consider then; best in here too. | [11:15] |
| whaack: | billymg: you should put an avatar on billymg.com | [11:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 19:23:58 diana_coman: jfw: shrysr whaack get yourselves a proper avatar on your blog, will you? mp-wp will use whatever you have as avatar.png on your domain eg mine is http://ossasepia.com/avatar.png | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fine; don't do it again though. | [11:16] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: noted. | [11:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: not tracking him on the spot necessarily, no, but ack /some feedback as to what are you going to do (if anything??), basic. | [11:16] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009103 << cool. | [11:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 15:31:45 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009082 – not at all out of line, quite on the contrary since this is something related to your biz, so shared, I even expect you add to it if there's more (and he to your answers if they lack anything); and for that matter nudges in the open, it's perfectly fine. | [11:16] |
| jfw: | sticky-noted in fact. | [11:17] |
| diana_coman: | and dropping was re that weekend trip, yes; because if I take at face value your input there yest, it will end up badly. | [11:17] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008876 << it started with the motivation to freeze | [11:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:10:03 diana_coman: but hm, that does sound overall more like your own practice room to know-more-linux than anything else | [11:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:17:16 diana_coman: the point was precisely that, namely to pin down and freeze something that one can reliably reproduce and then have as a starting point | [11:18] |
| dorion: | after wrestling with gentoo, jfw decided he'd rather start clean as clean as possible, including bootstrapping where gentoo fails, rather than decruft. | [11:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-15 23:51:28 dorion: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-15#1006391 << to add more context to this and with the luxury of hindsight, the original also included premature optimatizations such as a) make a linux from scratch cause no way to 'catalyst' a gentoo stage3 without a gentoo and b) implement scheme interpreter because even though jfw is strong with python, "not specified, does anyone even | [11:18] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-10-15 20:18:42 jfw: Original idea of the business was to do btc/fiat brokerage, "done right" as in GPG API, TRB and so forth. The connections to do that didn't work out, but since I'd been working on hardware/software security, we've focused on selling that / training. | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, I know that impulse and desire; it's still not a practical path though. | [11:19] |
| dorion: | diana_coman we've paid for it, and don't think the paying is done. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: quite. | [11:22] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not quite following on http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009229 | [11:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:17:26 diana_coman: and dropping was re that weekend trip, yes; because if I take at face value your input there yest, it will end up badly. | [11:22] |
| jfw: | do you mean, if you allow a pattern of last-minute things? | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: look, whenever I'm talking here to any of you, I'm paying you full attention, right? now look back at that convo and see how it looks because besides the multitasking/not-quite-here, it would seem as if you dropped that thing precisely when I said I was going away and then not even bothered to look/wait at all. | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | I'll put it behind this time and this time only. | [11:25] |
| dorion: | takes note. circling is death. | [11:26] |
| jfw: | noted too. | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | thank you. | [11:27] |
| jfw: | and thank you for the patience. | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [11:29] |
| dorion: | to continue the Gales thread, the ports system (gports) grew with needs, deliberately opposed to Linux for s/everyone/no one/ ; it remains relatively small because projects like the Scheme interpreter took substantial time. | [11:31] |
| dorion: | The gbuild scripts follow how jfw thinks/needs the package to be build, aiming for enumarating goodness. | [11:32] |
| dorion: | On the one hand, there isn't a USE flag type mechanism, but otoh they're shell scripts which are straight foward enough to be modified by the operator, as opposed to the substantial investment one needs to make in gentooism to understand how to modify an ebuild. | [11:34] |
| jfw: | granted some investment required in either case, and some ebuilds are more comprehensible than others | [11:36] |
| dorion: | given Gales uses busybox, and trinque is looking at busybox, it occurs to me to ask if it's worth investigating what would be needed for gales to be integrated into cuntoo or vice-versa. | [11:39] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-06 trinque: and you have fewer men than you'd like, and I'm not going to pretend to be 20, and then cry when I fail at it. that's why I said I'm looking at kernel + busybox for my own stack. even it isn't human-sized, but it's about two orders of magnitude less twine and shit than "standard linux distro" | [11:39] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009107 << I had you in mind when I put it in my plan for the week. | [11:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 15:33:55 BingoBoingo: dorion, jfw: It occurs to me that an overview of the Gringo job market, cost of living, quality of life, etc in Panama could be of use to myself in the near future. Should diana_coman find this a useful allocation of some of either of your time. | [11:42] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009109 << will do, I had started on the outline earlier in the week. | [11:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 15:35:33 diana_coman: dorion: bump that up please. | [11:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | Attn all looking to build up their handware stockpiles, another chassis is set for the auction block: http://bingology.net/2019/pizarro-liquidation-auctions-proposal/#comment-1505 | [12:01] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (112h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009249 – it's of more concern that it's not that scalable really rather than that it's small currently | [15:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:31:15 dorion: to continue the Gales thread, the ports system (gports) grew with needs, deliberately opposed to Linux for s/everyone/no one/ ; it remains relatively small because projects like the Scheme interpreter took substantial time. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009251 – except it should all be on V already. | [15:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:34:29 dorion: On the one hand, there isn't a USE flag type mechanism, but otoh they're shell scripts which are straight foward enough to be modified by the operator, as opposed to the substantial investment one needs to make in gentooism to understand how to modify an ebuild. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | ie sure, I don't particularly want to support ebuilds; onth if I go for something else & new, it should be V-shaped. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009253 – not like I didn't tell that to him while he was still futzing about http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002523 | [15:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:39:59 dorion: given Gales uses busybox, and trinque is looking at busybox, it occurs to me to ask if it's worth investigating what would be needed for gales to be integrated into cuntoo or vice-versa. | [15:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 09:29:43 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002514 – so stop suspecting and instead, just install Cuntoo, do the comparison to find out the differences and write it down properly | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | but currently he still has other things to sort out first. | [15:15] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (107h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (103h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [22:06] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm uncertain if http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009267 is meant in jest, but to be clear now: I didn't take that lead because indeed I thought it would distract from current priorities, and didn't say so at the time because of http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002527. | [22:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 15:14:28 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009253 – not like I didn't tell that to him while he was still futzing about http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002523 | [22:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 09:32:55 diana_coman: jfw: at any rate, before "what task", you'll need to http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002518 ; | [22:56] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009247 – and moreover, as occurred to me once I was in a cab and unwinding a bit, thank you for the pushing, because that's what I signed up for after all. | [23:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:28:26 jfw: and thank you for the patience. | [23:00] |
#ossasepia Logs for 06 Nov 2019
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009011 – I've been had | [00:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 18:18:20 whaack: jfw: heh man i can't tell did you think i was serious re dual boot? no, i currently plan to run cuntoo. i am curious though, what hardware items make a computer more pure? | [00:30] |
| dorion: | lol | [00:32] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008820 << glad to hear that works for you and looking forward to it ! did it occur you had trained people to expect otherwise ? | [00:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:31:47 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1008814 << ftr he's scheduled for fri. 1530 new york. (and i wish moar people would work like this, for some reason nobody but dorion ever asked.) | [00:35] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:55:14 diana_coman: it will probably be quite hard to pin him down for a conversation as such but you can still budget your time on this overall even if it ends up as 5 minutes today and 5 tomorrow; the important thing is overall to have a clear stop somewhere because otherwise it will just drag on. | [00:35] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-05 asciilifeform: dorion: ok, friday 1530-1600 nyc time. | [00:35] |
| jfw: | so re pure, coreboot is a start, but many boards they only support by means of vendor blobs. Another thing is DDR2 memory, as anything later is widely susceptible to 'rowhammer' (now an open secret but believe I first learned this from asciilifeform). | [00:37] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (146h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:05] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 10mn total bids — | [03:05] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009019 – in here for mats please. | [03:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 18:44:21 dorion: and on the mangled hands thread, I have a link that may help mats ; diana_coman ought I add it here or reply to the thread it #t ? | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009022 – heh, whatever you neglect will come back to bite you exactly when you have least time for it. | [03:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 21:00:45 lobbes: diana_coman: next up for me, I think, after I get mp-wp bot settled is to get the auction house in better shape. I've been neglecting things like proper auto-invoicing and the damn price history that I let die. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009024 – good point; still, he needs to build first a desktop since he never ever did such a thing; the rackables can wait. | [03:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 21:07:14 BingoBoingo: whaack: Also consider that rackmount machines make fine desk/computers if you don't need heavy graphics rendering abilities. | [03:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/11/verifying-my-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-80 | [04:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eulora is a masterclass in economy mascarading as a videogame; that'd be as close to a "full description" as it gets. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw dorion re bidding on the auction, you can do it either here on in #t , it's up to you (bot will take your bid either way). | [04:15] |
| diana_coman: | you might want to set an autobid too for that matter, see the help page | [04:15] |
| bvt: | jfw: is gales linux fully self-bootstrapping (has packages for gcc&etc., with all static libs installed)? what about python? iirc statically linking it can be a trouble because lots of python modules dlopen, and i really expect the same for x11 | [04:20] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (141h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:05] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 10mn total bids — | [08:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. I saw your comment and had a response floating in my head that I did write, I will reply shortly | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ack more timely; it's fine to say you need some time to reflect but say it + give an eta for reflection's output, don't just leave it hanging like that, basic manners. | [09:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: understood | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: huh, no autobid? | [10:02] |
| whaack: | from out my window it looks like the wind, swell, and tide have aligned. gonna brb for 2 hours | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, enjoy! | [10:09] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: no autobid (still :/). This is also on my list of neglected items to tackle next. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what's eating your time that much though? | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I pointed that out because, there are going to be more rackables hitting the auction block in the very near future. | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | and he's not even far away from them ie easier to get them delivered, huh; good point. | [10:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | The only downside they have to being made into desk/Computers is the incredible fan noise | [10:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | And no, not that far either. He's gotta get to Panama City's Airport and then Montevideo is only 8-ish hours away via Copa airlines | [10:55] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: presumably they can be sent by courier too, can't they? | [10:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: There's two ways they could be shipped. One is that I haven't tested them to see if they work, I put a value on the export paper with fedex under 200 USD because the machine's functonality is uncertain. They other way is I test the machine, declare a reasonable market value, pay a Dispachante de Aduanas ~350 to do export paperwork, and that… makes shipping a roughly ~700 USD affair per machine. | [11:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | The magic paper is ~1/2 the total courier expense | [11:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | For much of the world, big suitcases and a bit of tourism is the economical option. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | ugh. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | good to know at least. | [11:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | The world customs information sharing system however appears to value FUCKGOATS with a very low dollar value as per the paperwork the ben_vulpes expedition left behind. | [11:03] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008832 << perhaps process is more correct than structure, but what I mean is does Latin define words using negative space ala Greek ? | [11:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:36:10 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008803 – sneakin' but right at least, can't complain there; what do you mean by does Latin have the structure? | [11:05] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 16:52:33 diana_coman: dorion: more like how the chair is *defined* as a result of taking things away from the whole ; as opposed to "positive" definition of the more usual sort "this chair is 4 wooden legs and one wooden plank" | [11:05] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-06#1009056 << the usual pretense was eating my time in the past | [11:06] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 14:45:17 diana_coman: lobbes: what's eating your time that much though? | [11:06] |
| lobbes: | the last month and change was getting the mp-wp bot built (+ saltmines and other private sphere things related to getting my internal (and external!) house in order) | [11:06] |
| lobbes: | (sure, in retrospect I perhaps should have had a kitchen built *before* offering omelettes for sale on the menu. Still I have no regrets) | [11:06] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-10-09 mp_en_viaje: "sure, most people specializing in serving breakfast for a fee can produce omlets in about ten minutes. but they start with a ready kitchen, which already contains eg eggs" | [11:06] |
| lobbes: | bbl, to mines | [11:07] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-06#1009034 << ddr3+, ftr. | [11:15] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 04:32:16 jfw: so re pure, coreboot is a start, but many boards they only support by means of vendor blobs. Another thing is DDR2 memory, as anything later is widely susceptible to 'rowhammer' (now an open secret but believe I first learned this from asciilifeform). | [11:15] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008850 << we do not; the thinkpads are very much a scrap market ; we'll need to expand to more options, laptops and desktops. the one upside of the thinkpads is they're relatively well designed and certain replacement parts, such as battery and kbd, are available. | [11:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:51:28 diana_coman: jfw: do you have certainty re supply there esp since older model? | [11:29] |
| dorion: | (not sure if I'm out of line there since the question wasn't addressed to me, but assumed he merely overlooked it given the outpour he was engaged in and decided to follow up in chan rather than nudge in pm) | [11:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008868 << which added to the push to move out of the manaloning shadows. | [11:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:06:18 jfw: I have not done much in the way of integrating the system with V as I didn't find myself qualified to even know what that would look like | [11:33] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008885 << does this mean if you try emerging something that doesn't have an ebuilds in /cuntoo/portage/ , it will use /usr/portage ? | [11:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:16:24 diana_coman: jfw: "/cuntoo/portage is configured as the system's highest priority repository, with upstream Gentoo and the overlays demoted." – to cite from the source | [11:34] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009044 << and a beautifully economizing description at that, thank you! | [11:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 04:11:27 diana_coman: dorion: eulora is a masterclass in economy mascarading as a videogame; that'd be as close to a "full description" as it gets. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | welcome hanbot | [12:45] |
| hanbot: | howdy an' ty. | [12:45] |
| hanbot: | curious where this'll go, and i'm sure i'll enjoy the read 'til i find out. :) feels like a leg-stretching luxury to come over here. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | heh, I hope you do enjoy it! | [12:46] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (136h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009069 – from what I know of Latin, I wouldn't say so but I'm not familiar enough with the space to say for sure that it doesn't; Latin is very strong on structure indeed and it builds on that so I'd say a different outlook. | [15:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:05:20 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008832 << perhaps process is more correct than structure, but what I mean is does Latin define words using negative space ala Greek ? | [15:27] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 16:52:33 diana_coman: dorion: more like how the chair is *defined* as a result of taking things away from the whole ; as opposed to "positive" definition of the more usual sort "this chair is 4 wooden legs and one wooden plank" | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009074 – ok, so when's your eta to be done with putting those things in order so you can really get going? | [15:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:06:53 lobbes: the last month and change was getting the mp-wp bot built (+ saltmines and other private sphere things related to getting my internal (and external!) house in order) | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009075 – absolutely no point to any regrets ever. | [15:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:06:58 lobbes: (sure, in retrospect I perhaps should have had a kitchen built *before* offering omelettes for sale on the menu. Still I have no regrets) | [15:29] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-10-09 mp_en_viaje: "sure, most people specializing in serving breakfast for a fee can produce omlets in about ten minutes. but they start with a ready kitchen, which already contains eg eggs" | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009082 – not at all out of line, quite on the contrary since this is something related to your biz, so shared, I even expect you add to it if there's more (and he to your answers if they lack anything); and for that matter nudges in the open, it's perfectly fine. | [15:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:30:58 dorion: (not sure if I'm out of line there since the question wasn't addressed to me, but assumed he merely overlooked it given the outpour he was engaged in and decided to follow up in chan rather than nudge in pm) | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009085 – yes, you can set it to anything you want for that matter; ofc whether or not it can still compile whatever it finds there is a different matter. | [15:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:34:37 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008885 << does this mean if you try emerging something that doesn't have an ebuilds in /cuntoo/portage/ , it will use /usr/portage ? | [15:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion, jfw: It occurs to me that an overview of the Gringo job market, cost of living, quality of life, etc in Panama could be of use to myself in the near future. Should diana_coman find this a useful allocation of some of either of your time. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: dorion has in his plan to write about his 7 years experience in Panama | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: bump that up please. | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you don't have to chew the Panama civil code upfront for that either, it can wait for afterwards. | [15:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: If the description of Panama sounds promising, I can eat the law myself | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | makes sense; he might still need to eat it too anyway for his own needs though. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: dorion where do you keep your servers anyway, do you know the local ISPs? | [15:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | suspects is Panama has a downside its going to be Climate+USG proximity | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: tbh I have no idea why would you want to go to Panama now but it can't hurt to consider the option at least, I suppose. | [15:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I don't particularly want to. Looking at the map of where Datacenter live, Panama seems to have some for being between the continents. It also gets point for speaking spanish. | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | that much is true, yes. | [15:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Also best western hemisphere travel hub, if next gig is a persistently mobile one | [15:44] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009047 – yes, it can bootstrap from self. Python modules can be linked in statically at interpreter build time, though indeed this means you can't "just setup.py install" things with interpreter extensions. And yes X11 is a big ??? atm | [17:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 04:20:05 bvt: jfw: is gales linux fully self-bootstrapping (has packages for gcc&etc., with all static libs installed)? what about python? iirc statically linking it can be a trouble because lots of python modules dlopen, and i really expect the same for x11 | [17:25] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009082 – ty dorion. | [17:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:30:58 dorion: (not sure if I'm out of line there since the question wasn't addressed to me, but assumed he merely overlooked it given the outpour he was engaged in and decided to follow up in chan rather than nudge in pm) | [17:26] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009063 – if I won S.NSA auction I'd lean toward rolling the dice on the untested option. If a higher value is declared there could also be hard-to-predict import duties on this end. If I paid all that extra I'd want some kinda guarantee that they'll actually work on arrival, and I dunno how realistic that is. | [17:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:00:06 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: There's two ways they could be shipped. One is that I haven't tested them to see if they work, I put a value on the export paper with fedex under 200 USD because the machine's functonality is uncertain. They other way is I test the machine, declare a reasonable market value, pay a Dispachante de Aduanas ~350 to do export paperwork, and that… makes shipping a roughly ~700 USD affair per machine. | [17:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: If you in Panama you have the least onerous possible journey to the Oriental Republic of Uruguay. I don't see why you wouldn't buy a plane ticket and some giant suitcases if you won. | [17:37] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: do you have physical dimensions, weight and parts listing of dulap + spare? | [17:37] |
| jfw: | I'd be open to a tourist + courier run | [17:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Pretty sure I've got measurements somewhere to dig up. Each dulap is ~14 kg | [17:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | 26×17.25×1.75 inches for a dulap. Or 66x44x5 in centimeters. | [17:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | And do consider that Pizarro will be firing off auctions soon as well http://bingology.net/2019/pizarro-liquidation-auctions-proposal/ | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | santa claus comes with dulaps this year | [17:42] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009113 – we don't have servers atm. We looked into colocation options at a couple points, this turned up a couple 'machine room in office building' type things, and possibly some more dedicated facilities | [17:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 15:38:04 diana_coman: jfw: dorion where do you keep your servers anyway, do you know the local ISPs? | [17:43] |
| jfw: | ty BingoBoingo. | [17:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Don't forget the switches, rails, and other grab bag items. | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: didn't you investigate those "possibly some more dedicated facilities" ? | [17:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Mod6 also has a dell server he's interested in unloading. It is bigger and heavier than the dulaps, but it does have 6 2.5" bays and a set of spare power supplies. | [17:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Intel inside though. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: looking at the pizarro auction proposal wouldn't it make more sense to link the server names to their specs? | [17:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I don't have the specs handy in a single location yet. I'm not confident I'll locate the specs. I plan to take pictures, but I cannot in good conscience publish specs I am uncertain about. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: oh; don't you have them on pizarroisp.net or aren't you sure those match? | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | eg http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/ for uy1? | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: I roughly know the servers but not everyone else does. | [17:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I am sure the information for every server is somewhere, but I've not yet found ever server's somewhere. I'll get the specs and publish an ad announcing intention to sell now that the shareholders seem to have accepted the plan. | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | works. | [17:59] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: we didn't investigate very far re datacenters, as I recall because the bigger question-mark was re funding. (dorion, is that correct?) | [17:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: For purely geographical reasons I expect there are a couple IXPs nearby. Pretty sure I remember trying to get a hold of at least one back in 2017. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: are you running your blogs from your home currently? | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | vaguely remembers something in jfw's notes | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: maybe you look up and figure out what/if isps in panama since you have to do that list anyway? | [18:05] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (131h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [18:06] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: initially pizarro rockchip, now USG VPS. I was contemplating a fiber hookup at home, though dunno if I'd be able to cohabitate with rackmount box noise | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | I wouldn't advise it really | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: if you want to live in a dc, might as well switch your business plans and do a proper isp already | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | could use it too | [18:09] |
| jfw: | It's worth considering, esp. if a battle-hardened BingoBoingo could advise or help. JFW is no BGP PhD | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw grab dorion too and consider then; best in here too. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: bgp? | [18:13] |
| jfw: | protocol by which ISPs advertise routes; though I'm using it here as symbolic of not having worked at 'proper ISP' with own address space and so on. | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | that was what I wasn't clear on, aha. | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, nobody's a phd at anything to start with; the issue is not that but quite different ie if you decide to do it, then it has to be done properly so not as a side thing or just bits and pieces and so on | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, not something to say much on right now | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow | [18:35] |
| jfw: | oh, diana_coman: dorion and I will be offline Saturday through mid-Sunday for some hiking in the mountains with the crew, which wasn't previously mentioned. (We thought it could be a later weekend, but schedule conflicts came up and this would be the last chance in 2019.) | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | ha | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right, just plan your reviews & plans so they still get published, more sanely on Friday I suppose. | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anything else? | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: At this point I am not interested in joining ventures involving folks getting their feet wet in a new field. I am focusing my search on established operations. | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'll end up doing that. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: no, you shouldn't get into a new isp for sure. | [18:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw! | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | mk. | [18:41] |
| jfw: | nope, ty. | [18:42] |
| jfw: | looks like I'll have my hands full digesting what I've inspired | [18:46] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-06 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, and in an unexpected turn of events, your pages are now inspiring trilema articles. | [18:46] |
| hanbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Jul-2019#999045 << i'm thoroughly enjoying my logreading, haha. i've been missing out! | [18:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-07-20 15:32:00 diana_coman: in crude words: don't cut off your own dick just because it's inconvenient to have one, at times | [18:56] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: understandable & godspeed. | [19:40] |
| jfw: | welcome hanbot; I for one would count myself fortunate to have your keen eye & thoughtful pen in here. | [19:41] |
| hanbot: | thanks jfw. looking forward to checking out the individual histories here. the healthily open atmosphere diana_coman's very patiently fostered is so very pleasant. speaking of which, diana_coman wouldja ballpark your avg time commitment/day over the past four months or so in here? | [19:51] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (127h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 20mn total bids — | [22:06] |
#ossasepia Logs for 05 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: why not actually buy the components and build yourself a desktop computer? take pics and document the process too and you've got a great post as well. | [03:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: good for you! | [04:17] |
| jfw: | :) been a long day but I think I'll sleep well. | [04:29] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it. | [06:02] |
| diana_coman: | carrying over from #t, the correct word describing the contents of a blog is articles rather than "posts"; so there shall be no more "posts", only articles. | [06:04] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-05 mp_en_viaje: seems to me article's exactly what we're doing. | [06:04] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=None E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (165h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:05] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 0 total bids — | [08:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw dorion you might want to have a look at ^ | [08:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. putting together a comp sounds both fun and worth my while; I will do it. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it is! and good for you :) | [11:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I would appreciate any advice on the subj. jfw and dorion do you have tips re acquiring parts in Central America? | [11:39] |
| dorion: | whaack while we've acquired some things locally, a lot has been received via Miami forwarding address. Also, Panama City is quite different from your point breaking beach. What's the population there anyways and how far are you from San Jose ? | [11:54] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Nov-2019#1008727 << I had a sneaking suspicion that'd be the reply. Does Latin have the structure ? | [12:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 15:41:02 diana_coman: dorion: greek is cannonical example there. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | dorion: I'm not sure the exact population, but I believe it is <1k . To San Jose it's 3-7 hours depending on traffic / driving style. | [12:13] |
| whaack: | dorion: i'm thinking my best bet is to do the Miami forwarding address, and then pick up packages from a post office in a nearby town | [12:15] |
| dorion: | whaack probably, yeah. | [12:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: There's specialist services like TiendaMia you can look into. Usually these take advantage of a "franchise" regime, only handling imports up to a certain value and in a certain quantity determined by the local aduanas. | [12:26] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: ty I will check it out. | [12:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | You may need to have some sort of local ID. It may be better to have things shipped to a pickup center of some sort rather than the home address depending on the quality of the local motorcycle couriers. | [12:29] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: lol well I have some tico acquaintances that could help me with the first problem. the state of the roads here require adept maneuvering, i will spare the couriers the trouble. | [12:37] |
| whaack: | off to the saltmines | [12:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you can ask your questions in #a whenever convenient at any rate, at least it's stated and you'll get whatever answers you get. | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | it will probably be quite hard to pin him down for a conversation as such but you can still budget your time on this overall even if it ends up as 5 minutes today and 5 tomorrow; the important thing is overall to have a clear stop somewhere because otherwise it will just drag on. | [13:00] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks, 'the medium is the message' | [13:03] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (160h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:05] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 10mn total bids — | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I fully understand the need and the idea that it's possible to help there; unfortunately though I have long experience that shows it won't work but experience can't be directly passed on, obviously, it is what it is. | [13:06] |
| dorion: | yeah, I accept the effects will be what they'll be, one of which being to demonstrate what I have to communicate and how I am currently going about it. | [13:10] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1008814 << ftr he's scheduled for fri. 1530 new york. (and i wish moar people would work like this, for some reason nobody but dorion ever asked.) | [15:31] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:55:14 diana_coman: it will probably be quite hard to pin him down for a conversation as such but you can still budget your time on this overall even if it ends up as 5 minutes today and 5 tomorrow; the important thing is overall to have a clear stop somewhere because otherwise it will just drag on. | [15:31] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-05 asciilifeform: dorion: ok, friday 1530-1600 nyc time. | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I asked him specifically to fix some time. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | (as I said in your chan too for that matter) | [15:32] |
| asciilifeform: | a++ | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it works best for you too that way, certainly. | [15:33] |
| asciilifeform: | it worx 9000x better than folx expecting to find asciilifeform alive in middle of the night etc. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: absolutely. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008801 – whaack, would this your first build? | [15:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 11:39:54 whaack: diana_coman: I would appreciate any advice on the subj. jfw and dorion do you have tips re acquiring parts in Central America? | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, judging by the local rural level + BingoBoingo's xp in south america you are probably better off ordering stuff | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008803 – sneakin' but right at least, can't complain there; what do you mean by does Latin have the structure? | [15:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 12:07:45 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Nov-2019#1008727 << I had a sneaking suspicion that'd be the reply. Does Latin have the structure ? | [15:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The one thing I'd suggest beyond simply ordering is sweeping all the promising stores in the big city to see who carries things like civilized thermal paste, cables, etc. Some stuff simply isn't worth shipping if it can be avoided. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose it depends on whether he can get them with same order or not | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | because the trouble is that in a rural area, who the fuck will have thermal paste and of good quality and in good condition? | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you have some time? | [15:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I assume folks living in committed ruralities do make adventures to the city or at least some sort of retail hub from time to time. Such has been my experience living in both North and South American rurality. | [15:43] |
| jfw: | whaack, I'm not aware of the original context of the desktop-building thread but one question to consider is what to optimize it for – performance, reliability, 'purity' | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: yes, but honestly, who in CR actually builds own computer? ie even in San Jose, while one can possibly find some seller, I wouldn't really trust them to have much in stock/good stuff because demand ~0 | [15:43] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I do. I've come down with a bit of a sore throat though, urgh. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: he has only a bunch of laptops in his house, namely 2 crapples and 1 thinkpad; so his optimisation first is to actually get… a computer. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, at least writing doesn't make it worse, hopefully. | [15:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: This is a problem. | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: as it seems it will take a while until you might get to write down neatly all the stuff you've been working on, mind giving me a clearer summary here? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I'm looking at your list at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/planned-articles-as-of-october-2019/ | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | the mp-wp patches and stuff might not fit meanwhile the head of the v-tree anyway | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | but at any rate, what's that Gales Linux exactly and how/in what way different from Cuntoo? where/what are your problems there? | [15:49] |
| jfw: | ok, well there's hardware which so far has involved a Coreboot build & flashing process for a specific model of older Thinkpad – starting with laptops for shipping cost / portability reasons but want to grow to desktops/servers | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you have certainty re supply there esp since older model? | [15:51] |
| jfw: | Gales Linux is a new distribution, not using Portage or other sort of auto-download and dependency resolution; it's got a set of package build scripts I've developed over time based on my own needs | [15:52] |
| jfw: | It has a cross-bootstrap procedure, somewhat inspired by the Linux From Scratch recipe, so its initial install media can be produced entirely from source given some existing unix-like system | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what did you start with? and when you say a set of package build scripts, does this literally mean you have a set of sources + scripts to build them or what? | [15:54] |
| jfw: | Yes, sources consist of upstream tarballs stored on a mirror, with their hashes, build scripts and patches stored in a tree | [15:55] |
| jfw: | There's some lightweight infrastructure for the common tasks of checking hashes and constructing built packages (it uses staged installation, ala RPM, producing package files that one could reuse if desired, rather than, say, 'make install'ing directly to /) | [15:57] |
| jfw: | Also the filesystem layout is a bit unique, with packages stored in separate versioned subdirectories, somewhat inspired by DJB's /package scheme. Combined with static linking this makes it quite possible to install multiple versions of both binaries and libraries in parallel | [15:58] |
| jfw: | There's a minimal 'init' program and DJB's daemontools are used for process supervision | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | hm | [16:00] |
| jfw: | Drawing from OpenBSD, config files are installed to /etc/examples by default so the owner's changes are never overwritten by upgrades | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | well, what upgrades, lolz | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: out of pure curiosity now: do you find yourself upgrading software much those days? | [16:02] |
| jfw: | well, it's still mostly a C stack and I can't guarantee no bugs, in fact quite the opposite, heh | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | sure, but that'd be a vpatch rather than an upgrade | [16:03] |
| jfw: | Not really, approach has been more 'if it turns out to be broken, shoot in head and find replacement' | [16:03] |
| jfw: | this ain't always cheap tho. | [16:04] |
| jfw: | writing own irc client for example; I used to use irssi but it was having, what, two critical bugs a year or something | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, it isn't; then again, how could it be cheap in the given context. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | I have not done much in the way of integrating the system with V as I didn't find myself qualified to even know what that would look like | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: are you effectively limited there by your scripts ie if you find tomorrow you want a new package then you're stuck until you write the script for it? | [16:07] |
| jfw: | Yes, at least as far as running it on own distro. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | (re irssi and bugs in general, there is also the q of whether all their bugs apply to you but not the moment to go on that tangent right now) | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | ouch | [16:08] |
| jfw: | One big practical limitation at the moment for example is no X11. So I still do a lot of work from a gentoo-based system | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | looks sideways at the shiny comp with all the bells and whistles she…had to get for work on eulora client. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | but hm, that does sound overall more like your own practice room to know-more-linux than anything else | [16:10] |
| jfw: | How does cuntoo fare in regards to 'long tail' of packages? Is it a full capture of existing gentoo, with however many TBs of mirror, or minimal subset? | [16:10] |
| jfw: | (I have built my own X11 stack before too, what a pain) | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: cuntoo as it stands currently is more of an initial minimal genesis + a roadmap waiting for people to get moving along it | [16:11] |
| jfw: | so if one wanted to 'deploy LAMP stack' on it, would need to write the A/M/P ebuilds? | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it has portage and you can point it in principle to anything you want | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | so basically you can use it as a clean starting point and then mess it up with anything | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | I'm not sure I'd call the result still cuntoo | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | but at least yes, it's not limited in that sense | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: "/cuntoo/portage is configured as the system's highest priority repository, with upstream Gentoo and the overlays demoted." – to cite from the source | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | the point was precisely that, namely to pin down and freeze something that one can reliably reproduce and then have as a starting point | [16:17] |
| jfw: | upstream Gentoo as I'm sure has been noted is constantly churning; what works on a system built this year unlikely to quite work on one built next year, unless you capture portage tree + mirror | [16:18] |
| jfw: | but, it's a start, yep. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: from what you say you went a much more restricted and idiosyncratic way there, hence my above http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008876 | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:10:03 diana_coman: but hm, that does sound overall more like your own practice room to know-more-linux than anything else | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the minimal tree is captured ie I have installed the whole thing totally offline | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | and ftr that's how I want it too: OFFLINE | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | ffs mirros | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | no more mirrors, thank you. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | the idea though is that the signed genesis does not yet include those offline tarballs too (though arguably it should since there's no way around it) | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, as you say, X11 and anything-more-than-minimal still needs to be captured and signed and so on | [16:21] |
| jfw: | I install mine entirely offline, indeed, no mechanism to do otherwise; the necessary tarballs presently weigh ~500M | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is that "Gales Bitcoin Wallet" somehow relying on some Gales-specific or why the name? | [16:27] |
| jfw: | a more restricted/idiosyncratic way, indeed; kind of a way to force myself to at least know what all the software I'm running is. | [16:28] |
| jfw: | nope I just reused the name there – though what it does pull in is my Scheme interpreter. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | huh, it's some 15 years since I last did anything with Scheme | [16:30] |
| jfw: | (I'd prefer it be portable in that sense, but the Scheme specs just don't specify enough) | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | not that I didn't enjoy at that time but uhm, iirc it was rather limited | [16:30] |
| jfw: | yes it is rather batteries-not-included | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how about that irc client? could I just run it? | [16:34] |
| jfw: | I first got interested in it through SICP, then by playing with 'tinyscheme' as seen in asciilifeform's 'shiva'. Found that implementation was very 'leaky' i.e. bad code could crash the interpreter, and with weird restrictions like segmented memory, but gave me the idea that it was a doable project | [16:35] |
| jfw: | ^ re Scheme | [16:35] |
| jfw: | Yep, irc client is plain python 2.7 and no dependencies | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | that would be quite a nice thing tbh | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | well, as nice as python can be, there is that hard limit, lolz. | [16:35] |
| jfw: | which limit? | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: python itself; it's not the cleanest thing there is, for sure | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | and with all the changes from one version to another, it might even not run fine on my 2.6.6 for instance | [16:37] |
| jfw: | right. Know of any things that are both clean + not limited though? :D | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, well done. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | ftr, I wasn't saying that against you/your code there, lol. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | IRC client has some known deficiencies but possibly not that hard to remedy them | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, I'd certainly give it a spin at least, why not. | [16:39] |
| jfw: | cool, I can bump it up on the schedule | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you understand V? | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | and the WoT for that matter? | [16:40] |
| jfw: | I've read up in various ways but found them pretty deep subjects and don't think I've got to the bottom of them | [16:41] |
| jfw: | Have read v.py, and made some tweaks like hash verification, but not written own vtron | [16:42] |
| jfw: | I re-read the WoT article and think I understand it better than last time you asked, I guess we'll see once I get the articles out! | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: certainly; it was more to have some idea where you are on that path there. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | all right; I'm still around and available to chat but I covered the topics I really wanted to ask you about today so thank you. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | oh, re S.NSA auction, I'm indeed considering a bid. Does one need a Eulora account or something since they're priced in ECu? | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: not really ie it's pegged and so the payment can still be done in BTC via deedbot | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | and for that matter if you'd absolutely need to pay in ecu, it wouldn't be a problem ; but atm seeing how no eulora server, it would be quite…difficult | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | just make sure you get the numbers right so you actually know what you're bidding there. | [16:47] |
| jfw: | ah cool. Is it 10 ECu to the satoshi -> 1bn to the BTC? | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | one satoshi is 10 ECu, yes; as per http://trilema.com/2017/and-now-for-a-special-eulora-news-bulletin/?b=Henceforth&e=#select | [16:50] |
| jfw: | ty. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, as far as I see it and since you say you are actually relying on FGs as part of your business, you should really look into making them yourself | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | it's more a matter of procurement anyway | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | did you consider this? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I realised I have no idea: how many people are you teaching in this batch that finishes end of Nov iirc? | [16:54] |
| jfw: | I thought it would be a fun project for sure, but potentially large time suck, thus hoping to make use of what's already done at this stage. I am inexperienced with getting hardware printed and would expect delays | [16:55] |
| jfw: | There are two in that batch and one working at a slower pace. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | hence why you need to think of it with enough time in advance but otherwise to the extent that's crucial to your whole biz, you can't quite avoid it really. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | that's not to say that you shouldn't make use of what's currently available, of course you should. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | but it's buying you time simply, not more. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008939 – huh, this is the people or the FGs?? | [16:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:55:54 jfw: There are two in that batch and one working at a slower pace. | [16:59] |
| jfw: | people, heh. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | I had to read that a couple of times, lol; ok. | [17:00] |
| jfw: | heh I can see it, picked up your word 'batch' right after talking hardware. | [17:01] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: do you know much about mainboard debugging for BIOS work? I see that as another important thing to invest in given the limited resource of pre-fritzchips, and the Sage probe that asciilifeform wrote about as a key tool | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | aha; you were saying that you're quite fond of your computers and it struck as rather interesting: how's that exactly ? | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sadly not much there, no; I suspect I might need to find out at some point though. | [17:05] |
| jfw: | Well I've been fascinated by computers from early age; the ability to direct such remarkable machines by mere words and numbers. And then there's the practical side of all they allow one to do – read, search, chat, compute (obv!), and fit all your important stuff in a pocket with as many backups as desired. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: in what way remarkable though? | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | what was your first computer anyway? | [17:11] |
| jfw: | Billions of computations per second seems remarkable to me! Though it's just the present state of a long history of development there I suppose. | [17:13] |
| jfw: | Grandpa had an old Mac (Performa I believe); first machine at home was a DOS box, could load Windows 3.1 with some effort | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, your brain does quite a lot of remarkable in that sense, doesn't it? | [17:15] |
| jfw: | It does. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, no zx80, how sad. | [17:16] |
| jfw: | And I'm rather fond of it too! | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, that's good to know! | [17:16] |
| jfw: | born into the dark ages already huh. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | eh, not like it started then or something | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | ftr my fondness of the zx80 clone I saw as first comp comes mainly from the fact that I literally saw it assembled piece by piece | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | not as much from the finished stuff as from peaking at its insides | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | I positively couldn't stand progrmaming too ! | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [17:19] |
| jfw: | nice re assembly. Oh it occurs to me the earlier computers I saw, though didn't use, were dial-in terminals to an Alpha, and one Wang, at parents' work | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the q re the practical side of what they allow one to do is precisely that – do they quite allow you to do all you wanted to do with them? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and ftr re dark ages: the difference is not *that* big, I'm 38. | [17:22] |
| jfw: | What I wanted to do with them grew, e.g. I had no idea 3D graphics were a thing to want as a kid, or cryptography. Seems that they do allow quite a bit but with big questions as to when they'll decide of their own accord not to allow what you thought they did. | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | when they do, shoot them! | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so what do you want most to do with them? | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | machines have no business "allowing" anything, that's not for them. | [17:24] |
| jfw: | hmm, I'm not finding a 'most want to do with them' here. I've come to see them less as about entertainment or interesting in their own right, and more, how can they serve my real-world needs | [17:28] |
| jfw: | hoping I don't become entirely jaded though. | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | that sounds more … adult than jaded, what. | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | what's wrong with real-world needs? | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | they are indeed tools or they are *supposed to be* tools, no? | [17:33] |
| jfw: | Nothing wrong at all, indeed. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, just… nothing excitingly right yet? | [17:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008829 << yes it would be my first build. | [17:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:34:57 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008801 – whaack, would this your first build? | [17:49] |
| jfw: | The Scheme interp has been the most exciting of my projects. Starting with simple and comprehensible components, like with logic chips on a breadboard, and seeing it all come to life | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, doubly exciting then, nice; but you should start then with some reading at the very least, gather a list with all the stuff you need and so on; to make it easy re choice of "what to build", I suppose you can get and fx & corresponding board eg the config in http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/14/a-working-cuntoo-install-on-amd-fx-8350-with-script/ | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | not like it's mandatory or "the best" or anything but as a starting point at least | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds like you quite enjoy making stuff actually; (and yes, I get what you mean there re simple+comprehensible & seeing it come to life) | [17:56] |
| jfw: | I do. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should read the specs for each component and check compatibility; that being said, there are also some sites that can help you with that, just search around. | [17:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha I was thinking of that post from when we were discussing having an os built with V. Okay, I will start with that and do my research. As for delivery it seems DHL is the company to go for here, and they do delivery-to-door here according to my landlord. | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: cool; make sure you get everything you need, esp the small bits eg thermal paste indeed and cables of all sorts; again, those partpicker sites can give you some idea if you don't have any otherwise since you can see there the full list. | [17:59] |
| jfw: | whaack: one detail a first-time builder might miss is power supply quality; I'd suggest not skimping there to avoid problems down the road. Also higher quality fans are a boon if you don't fancy it sounding like a vacuum cleaner | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | ^^^ good points. | [18:04] |
| whaack: | jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008839 << This is a good question to think about. I guess the overarching goal i'm optimizing for is "productivity". So I would say I need my computer to keep up with my actions i real time and then from there reliability is more important | [18:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:43:51 jfw: whaack, I'm not aware of the original context of the desktop-building thread but one question to consider is what to optimize it for – performance, reliability, 'purity' | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the trouble there is that it depends on what you are going to do exactly on it | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | so unless you know that already… | [18:05] |
| jfw: | aye, if 'running windows' is in there, no computer will ever keep up for long | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, why so mean jfw | [18:05] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (155h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:05] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 10mn total bids — | [18:05] |
| jfw: | experience. | [18:05] |
| whaack: | jfw: lol . gotta dual boot so i can play wow | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | tsk | [18:06] |
| jfw: | he meant eulora!! | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | you know, dorion should play eulora the most actually | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | but a state of sadness indeed, sigh. | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow | [18:08] |
| jfw: | whaack: if running Windows then 'purity' is probably not worth it and just buy the fastest stuff that fits your budget. For reliability, a RAID card and ECC memory might be worth considering; I haven't used these before for my home builds but have realized the error of my ways. | [18:12] |
| jfw: | (though an addendum re 'fastest stuff', some care is required if you want it to work well on Linux too especially GPU) | [18:14] |
| jfw: | will bbl | [18:14] |
| whaack: | jfw: heh man i can't tell did you think i was serious re dual boot? no, i currently plan to run cuntoo. i am curious though, what hardware items make a computer more pure? | [18:18] |
| dorion: | whaack corebootable is high on priorities for purity, and moreso than coreboot in 'purism' sense. they claim 'pure' while running i7 intels. | [18:24] |
| whaack: | jfw: performance is not particularly important to me, but i also don't plan to be particularly frugal. the specs here look good, and I may invest in a half decent graphics card as well | [18:25] |
| whaack: | dorion: just looked up puri.sm . from their website they look like the protonmail of hardware | [18:30] |
| whaack: | or the keybase.io of hardware, if you will | [18:30] |
| dorion: | whaack ayup, for those who 'just want to' have it since and shiny. | [18:39] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009005 << I'm game! Though never a videogamer myself, I've gather Eulora isn't like any other game — how you play is how you think, cause the a) bot-friendliness and b) auctions, not how you mash the board and mangle your hands. | [18:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 18:06:58 diana_coman: you know, dorion should play eulora the most actually | [18:42] |
| dorion: | and on the mangled hands thread, I have a link that may help mats ; diana_coman ought I add it here or reply to the thread it #t ? | [18:44] |
| dorion: | bbl:junto | [18:44] |
| whaack: | dorion: enjoy | [18:45] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: next up for me, I think, after I get mp-wp bot settled is to get the auction house in better shape. I've been neglecting things like proper auto-invoicing and the damn price history that I let die. | [21:00] |
| lobbes: | which, for the last few months, hasn't been a problem. Once eulora gets heated up again though.. | [21:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Also consider that rackmount machines make fine desk/computers if you don't need heavy graphics rendering abilities. | [21:07] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (151h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:05] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 10mn total bids — | [22:05] |
#ossasepia Logs for 04 Nov 2019
| jfw: | Well getting those out in ~3h where I'd budgeted 8, because Had To, was something of a thrill. Will await my Master's judgement as to their adequacy. | [02:16] |
| jfw: | though to be clear the above situation is itself a fuckup, as noted in the Review. | [02:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: get some proper sleep; I'll get to everything later today. | [04:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do ask if there's anything not entirely clear there. | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | I've deployed billymg's vpatch on younghands.club so let me know if you still see any trouble there. | [14:07] |
| jfw: | ty diana_coman, will let it simmer and update after work. | [14:18] |
| jfw: | Editor fix looks to be working. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: cool; do shout if you need to, lol. | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | welcome mats | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | how are you building that escape-wealth? | [15:32] |
#ossasepia Logs for 03 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | hello davout, it's been a long time | [08:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's it going? | [11:15] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not the greatest, I'm in the eleventh hour crunch again | [11:35] |
| jfw: | draft is not finished | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what does it lack to be finished? | [11:36] |
| jfw: | I've got a bunch of context as to my original goals and steps but what's lacking is much delving into the events of the month | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: in truth, it is a whole month indeed, dunno who exactly made it that.. long :P | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | but I'll let you focus on it now then, no worries. | [11:41] |
| dorion: | dunno who exactly made it that.. long :P << keks | [11:46] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: ok. Assuming I make it out of this one alive, is there an upcoming assignment I should get in next week's plan? | [11:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: an overview of the WoT as you understand it. | [11:52] |
| jfw: | alright | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | and do get out of it alive. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what's the difference between negative space and blind spots? | [12:39] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm not sure. | [12:46] |
| dorion: | searching in log now. | [12:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the easiest way to get an idea as to negative space is from drawing: | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | think of drawing an object such as a chair; the direct and usual approach is to look at the chair and attempt to draw its parts | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | however, the result is often way, way better if you look instead not at the chair itself but at the surrounding reality borders – basically the space that the chair takes out of its surroundings | [12:50] |
| diana_coman: | the chair-shaped gap, if you want | [12:50] |
| diana_coman: | no matter which bit or object you are looking at, there will be borders between it and surroundings | [12:51] |
| diana_coman: | the object itself is the "positive" as in that's what you were interested in to start with; but the space *around* it (and not just arbitrary but effectively *defining* it) is the negative space | [12:52] |
| dorion: | hmm, so then how the chair displaces whatever in the surroundings would've been there otherwise? | [12:52] |
| diana_coman: | as such, the negative space has nothing to do directly with blind spots (in that such blind spots are your own ie related to your vision, things you don't see; while the negative space has to do with the object it defines) | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: more like how the chair is *defined* as a result of taking things away from the whole ; as opposed to "positive" definition of the more usual sort "this chair is 4 wooden legs and one wooden plank" | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | this difference btw goes way way deeper in that it touches on how meaning of words is constructed even (or at least in some languages) | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the chair-drawing exercise is simple enough you can even do it, if you want; ie draw something focusing on the object itself; then on another day draw the same thing focusing on what is not-object in your chosen viewframe | [12:56] |
| diana_coman: | and then compare the two | [12:56] |
| diana_coman: | (now I have no idea how good you are at drawing, heh) | [12:56] |
| diana_coman: | obviously, if you do it, choose something reasonably non-compact ie preferably not-a-tennis-ball, lolz. | [12:57] |
| dorion: | diana_coman in that sense, I can be defined not by what I'm saying here or even the topic, but that you'd be doing something else right now if not delivering this negative space likbez. | [12:57] |
| diana_coman: | well, you are not really defined by what I'm saying though :) | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | but our interaction, yes | [12:58] |
| dorion: | I see. | [12:59] |
| diana_coman: | onth blind spots are really like in a car's mirror: those bits and parts that you don't see; as to *why* you don't see them, there can be all sorts of reasons | [12:59] |
| dorion: | not very practiced at drawing, but will give it a try. | [12:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: fwiw the "negative space drawing" is actually quite often used as an exercise to help beginners draw *better* pictures than they would otherwise. | [13:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: does that make sense? | [13:01] |
| dorion: | yes, thank you. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome. | [13:02] |
| dorion: | that I wasn't, or don't remember, being assigned such a drawing exercise indicates the poverty of my previous teachers or my lack of previous interest. | [13:03] |
| dorion: | they probably go hand in hand though. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | actual feedback and help to grow is rare indeed. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | another similar drawing exercise is to copy another drawing, but upside down, and then flip your final result. (i found the exercise from a book, "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" by Betty Edwards, recommended in a tlp post) i did the exercise and it produced the best drawing i've ever done lol | [13:12] |
| dorion: | yeah, modern 'teachers' are mainly there for 'work' being done at 3pm, summers off and the cushy pension checks, i.e. welfare. | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes. | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: in truth, there will never be enough teachers for *everyone* so yes, if you insist that everyone gets a teacher like that by decree, what else can you get than …welfare. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | my understanding from the tlp post is these drills prevent your brain from reducing the subject you're drawing to symbols "human head => circle" | [13:14] |
| dorion: | also, kids are easier to bully with nonsense compared to adults. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there is an element of that for sure; but the definition by subtraction vs definition by parts is more than just "don't reduce it to predefined symbols" | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eh, not all that many adults around either :P | [13:17] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I've read from john taylor gatto that back in one room school house days when US was relatively literate (perhaps not compared to their comtemporaries, but to modernity), older students taught the younger, with teaching as a form of proving understanding. | [13:17] |
| dorion: | diana_coman sure, esp after so many generations of prussian model, state enforced schooling. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | that in itself doesn't mean though that teaching was necessarily more than the prussian model really; it's just the natural result of mixed ages basically; while it may help in getting some deeper understanding, it's still not going to do much by itself, it's not like older students are all teachers just like that. | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do you have siblings? | [13:20] |
| dorion: | yeah, a sister 3 years younger. | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | heh, never explained to her anything? | [13:21] |
| dorion: | sure. my peculiar sitaution unfolded such that we weren't really close until ~after~ I moved out. In part because we were only in the same school building 2 years out of 15. when I was 12 and 18.. | [13:22] |
| diana_coman: | well, not in school but at home, lol; anyways, there you have it: it's enough to have a gap and people will "teach" one another *if they care* about that other, obv; that's the main part there. | [13:24] |
| whaack: | dorion: I think that is pretty normal. (becoming closer with your siblings when you no longer liver together) | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | bwahahaha; good god, NO. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | I can see the angle if basically you needed some space too but uhm, don't make it a rule, there's nothing solid behind it. | [13:25] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I see. | [13:26] |
| whaack: | lol ok | [13:27] |
| dorion: | whaack I dunno, I know plenty of siblings that were real close. In my situation, athletics were central to my activities and I was always interested in playing with the older kids on the block. thus drove my sister away a lot the time. | [13:27] |
| dorion: | once I realized sports don't matter and there's a big world out there, started talking to her more and realized I enjoyed her company. | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you are there like in eulora, approx: happiness is having a large, close-knit family in another town. | [13:28] |
| dorion: | and whaack thanks for the drawing exercise suggestion, sounds like a trip. | [13:29] |
| whaack: | right. i may be just projecting my experience on others. (to be clear by 'closer' i mean 'the level at which you appreciate any given moment') and if i think more about it i'm not sure that that's even the case for me | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, even thinking is re-thinking! | [13:30] |
| whaack: | any given moment together* | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [13:31] |
| whaack: | i'm not sure what you mean by 'you are there like in eulora'. | [13:32] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Nov-2019#1008672 << which languages would those be ? | [13:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 12:55:20 diana_coman: this difference btw goes way way deeper in that it touches on how meaning of words is constructed even (or at least in some languages) | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eulora has those quite pithy "message of the day", among which there's the one I paraphrased there | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | and your statement that it's quite normal to get along better with siblings only once not living together is pretty much that "loving, carrying and close-knit is great but mainly when far away too" | [15:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: is it bad that I agree with that quote? | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why /how would it be bad? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: greek is cannonical example there. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | but I suspect it's more a matter of the *people* speaking "the language" than language as a separate entity (if it can ever be separate anyway) | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | ie your own definitions of words can be the simple-cut-out 4legs+plank style or the much more perceptive negative-space style | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well perhaps one could say that someone who wants a "loving, caring, and a closet-knit family, but from a distance" is not all that loving and caring. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | onth def of words is further iffy in that it inevitably depends on/draws in the speaker's own knowledge otherwise (and with rather unrestricted scope too) | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha; no, not at all; it can mean several things out of a bunch but quite unlikely to mean "not all that loving and caring" | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | closet-knit though is a different thing :D | [15:44] |
| whaack: | lol XD | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so why would you rather have them further away? | [15:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i would have my friends/family 30 minutes away, ideally. close enough to make visits, but far enough so that there is cost to come over and say "come play with meeee" | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | that's answering "what does further away mean", not "why" | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | it's clearly that essentially you want to have your own space (and not just physical space) too which is perfectly adult-like, obviously. | [15:54] |
| whaack: | living near friends saps me of money, personal development, etc. this problem is twofold. (1) shitty friends (2) having an issue saying 'no' to the 'come play with meee' plea | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | they are related but yeah, make better friends and then you won't need to keep them "close but not too close" | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | whenever you end up with sort of mitigation (that's what you are doing there with close but not that close), you are pretty much living with a broken thing really | [15:56] |
| whaack: | hmm ok | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | and while some broken things might perhaps be inevitable around or happen from time to time, they 1. will cost you 2. are not mandatory | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the trouble is not as much that "family is broken" but rather that you still rely on them for warmth and close-knit (and as a result you have to deal somehow with the natural rift otherwise) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | but anyway, as far as I understood you actually quite took care of this part ie you have your own place and time without forced "come play with meee" , no? | [16:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes! it is a problem that currently seems fixed and i feel 100\% better for it. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | good for you; and glad to hear it :) | [16:01] |
| davout: | diana_coman: cheers! long time indeed | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, wb davout ; where are you those days? | [17:30] |
| davout: | i'm in the uk right now | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | ha; so come to reading/london some time? | [17:33] |
| davout: | sure why not, i'm in oxford so really not very far | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | did you get your pilot license or what? | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | once in a blue moon I even still go to oxford but no idea when it's next blue moon,lolz | [17:34] |
| davout: | i literally got the license in the mail yesterday! | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | congrats! | [17:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | Congrats davout. | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | davout: so what brings you back? | [17:38] |
| davout: | BingoBoingo: cheers | [17:39] |
| davout: | mucho mas tiempo, and missing the republican intellectual stimulation tbh | [17:41] |
| davout: | BingoBoingo: what happened to pizzaro isp? | [17:43] |
| davout: | i had a cursory look for a summary, couldn't find one | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | davout: this might be some summary including a bit re pizarro. | [17:47] |
| davout: | ty | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, fire me an email and come for a coffee or lunch or something. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow | [17:49] |
| lobbes: | davout: congrats on the license (and wb) | [18:21] |
| davout: | your captain thanks you | [18:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | davout: Sales ever took off in the way they needed to to survive the datacenter going non-performant | [18:35] |
| davout: | yeah, i guess having your sole provider going full retard isn't exactly helpful | [18:37] |
| davout: | either | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right now it's at the point where they lawyers are trying to work out the logistics of talking to each other. | [18:40] |
| trinque: | good evening davout | [18:40] |
| davout: | trinque: bonsoir! | [18:40] |
| davout: | BingoBoingo: yeah, i saw that bit, where even the language used in e-mail communication requires adjustment | [18:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | davout: Email communication has since stopped, nothing to communicate about through that channel. | [18:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | brb, air | [18:43] |
| jfw: | so my 'reflections' article just isn't anywhere publishable. Got maybe 80-90\% of planned content in the draft, but not reviewed at all, placeholder references and such. Trying to at least not snowball the mess to the review+planning but even that's looking iffy. | [23:45] |
#ossasepia Logs for 02 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, spaces between words in b, hm. | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | that's why I tend to look for a single b word there; indeed, user-wise it's both unhealthy and annoying if the spaces are discarded but this might be more of an issue on browser-side really | [09:57] |
| diana_coman: | ie the browser should *not* discard the spaces I would say. | [09:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i think the issue is that the links already have the spaces stripped, not that the browser is discarding them | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what/where strips them? | [10:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: if you click on your link "How my Blog Moved North"… that was sent via pingback on the proper-html-linking post you should see that the b value is "b=andt" not "b=and t" | [10:06] |
| diana_coman: | I see; tbh that link is already dubious ie wtf "and t" did I do there, lol | [10:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean what did you do? The links are generated by taking the first few characters of the excerpts. Your excerpt begins with "and the wasteful padding…" | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | right you are. | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | for some reason I kept thinking earlier that it was a manual select of mine instead of a pingback. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as far as I understand it now, it does seem to me like an actual problem with the way pingbacks are created; just express it more clearly to MP too, as apparently I'm not the only one that had trouble figuring out exactly what problem you found. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, since I did not make it clear to either of you I will try to examine why I didn't articulate myself well. I made a new comment ~an hour ago attempting to better explain the problem, but it is awaiting moderation since it has an external link. | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [13:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i kept stumbling on how to word the link i was talking about. i finally came up with "pingback linkback". you say '..an actual problem with the way pingbacks are created..' but I don't think that is the correct wording. _your_ blog correctly creates the pingback, the trilema server receives the pingback then modifies the "pingback linkback" and posts it as a comment | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so say it like that, even better (because yes, I kept looking at where the pingbacks are created and couldn't find why would that happen) | [13:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Hmm. this makes me think that the problem is upstream. the blog that creates the pingback _should_ be the one providing the b&e values. | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you look and see; while I did have a look, for one thing I don't know that part inside out and for the other it was still one of those rather quick looks so don't rely on that. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | basically so far you have that the pingback-comments are stripped of any whitespaces they might contain in the select part; next step is to find out where & why that strip happens. | [13:33] |
| diana_coman: | maybe have a look also if you find/have any pingback from trilema to a different blog, perhaps it's again some php version clash or other such nightmare. | [13:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i can't find that out because I don't know what code trilema's server is running. it is not the code he posted. I posted code that does not strip whitespace and explicitly puts +'s | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | it runs mp-wp, the original genesis; older php version (and in general: older versions of everything) | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: where are you otherwise with the rest of tasks for this week? | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | you might need to focus on what's for this Sunday and then investigate this further (if needed) next week rather than right now. | [13:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there is a modification to xmlrpc.php that is not vpatch'd. i'm not sure any blogs other than ztkfg/trilema are modifying the pingback linkbacks to use the new select mechanism | [13:36] |
| diana_coman: | mine isn't atm, I can confirm that. | [13:37] |
| diana_coman: | but I see what you are saying there; ok, leave it for now as it's basically waiting on clarifying it with MP and seeing his response. | [13:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am awfully behind. I am finishing up my post on examining the cause of using the link mechanism incorrectly and then I will move onto the V post. I have a rough draft for that but per our conversation it needs to be shifted quite a bit. | [13:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right; let the V post move on to next week and do it properly then. | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | you got this not-bad investigation out of that mess, at least. | [13:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes it was fruitful. also it gave me more context to understand the bootstrapping out of dk link you recently posted again | [13:43] |
| diana_coman: | heh, well done for spotting it; yes. | [13:44] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: in other news my first penance post on derealization is slowly morphing into a shape. Not what the shape will be at the end, but a shape nonetheless | [15:17] |
| lobbes: | has taken to keeping a notebook specifically for blog; writes down ideas as they come during the day. As days pass it tends to fall into focus | [15:17] |
| lobbes: | (ty, btw, diana_coman for original suggestion and in general) | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you're welcome; and I'll read it when you publish it. | [15:34] |
| lobbes: | Hmm, so I've got a new problem that is not related to the "1, 2, 3" mp-wp problems discussed here earlier. Wondering if anyone else has run into it: | [19:22] |
| lobbes: | It would seem that trackbacks to a post url that uses the new selection mechanism do not send. I've tested this by manually sending the trackbacks with plain ol' curl, so it seems like the issue isn't on the 'sending end', but on the 'receiving end'. Here's an example paste with two curl commands to my test blog (one that sends a post url sans-selection; the other with selection): http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=dxiq | [19:22] |
| lobbes: | The ones I send with the selection syntax in the url fail 100\% of the time. And now that I'm looking, I'm also noticing this behavior on others' blogs. | [19:22] |
| jfw: | lobbes: that does sound like a new thing, though of a sort that "surely someone woulda noticed by now!!" My own blog is missing self-pingbacks which I haven't yet investigated. | [20:41] |
| jfw: | does the curl show any fault code per http://hixie.ch/specs/pingback/pingback#TOC3 (though idk to what degree that spec actually describes WP) ? | [20:44] |
| jfw: | it would appear that the inaugural link doesn't show a pingback on its target | [20:46] |
| lobbes: | jfk: fwiw here's the output of another test: "Is there no link to us?" | [20:49] |
| lobbes: | yeah, I found another Trilema self-pingback that also did not appear to send: this to that | [20:51] |
| jfw: | jfk heh. It occurs to me there's gotta be a permalink resolver in there, redundant with the apache rewrite rules since those don't apply to xmlrpc payload. Possibly whatever that thing is requires a change analogous to the "QSA," allowing it to accept query parameters | [21:03] |
| lobbes: | lol whoops. (I realize I don't bother tab-completing your nick since it is so short) | [21:07] |
| lobbes: | hmm but this may just be another 'user error' on my end actually. At least in all my test cases the source post did not have a link to the target post in the post content. Plus I just tested via the blog (making sure to actually link) and a self-pingback using the selection syntax worked | [21:07] |
| lobbes: | So false alarm I suppose. (As for why I was trackback-ing arbitrary posts that do not have links, it was part of mp-wp bot's trackback testing) | [21:07] |
| jfw: | Ahh makes sense. | [21:08] |
#ossasepia Logs for 01 Nov 2019
| jfw: | (per selection, implications are worse than noted here so far – editor page can be html-injected) | [00:00] |
| jfw: | re http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008357 I'd say the problem isn't html doing what it's supposed to do i.e. displaying < as a literal less-than, but wordpress failing to account for this when rendering the initial editor content, exacerbated by the browser accomodating the brokenness to some degree. | [00:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 21:05:59 billymg: whaack: i have run into this same bug myself. the problem is html renders "escaped" html characters as their symbols. e.g. if you initially input something like "<p>" to render a <p> tag it will get saved as such in mysql. but when you edit the post, and the same "<p>" is pulled out of the db and put into the text area, it will render as "<p>" | [00:07] |
| jfw: | billymg, know a reason to prefer htmlentities to htmlspecialchars? fwiw I can't tell why the former even exists and the docs don't fully specify what it does | [00:32] |
| jfw: | I had a couple draft patches for this and other issues; I could publish next week but will defer to diana_coman on priorities. | [00:37] |
| jfw: | re selection mechanism quirks, note that the span tag insertion works at the low level of string insertion, no awareness of the HTML structure or anything, and I'd caution against trying to hack something like that onto it as it pulls in the whole mess of parsing malformed tag-soup since wordpress isn't strict to begin with. | [00:42] |
| whaack: | jfw: my current strategy is to disregard the position of the match for "b" if, after the position of the match, a close tag comes before an open tag. then try 1 more time to find a match after the close tag. | [00:53] |
| whaack: | (this is for fixing the problem that causes the select-display to break elements/links, i haven't done too much thinking re closing the <span> element) | [00:56] |
| whaack: | i agree with you that we cannot assume proper HTML structure. but since the sel-display is a best effort basis, i think it is the right thing to not insert a span tag when correct HTML structure would imply we'd be placing that tag inside of another tag. | [01:05] |
| whaack: | to sleep | [01:12] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008077 <– lulz @ "fast-food technology". I'm wondering how this translates to software in technical terms. is it just the inflation of code, or what? | [06:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 18:15:15 dorion: I think the problem is they're aiming for the masses rather than elite. think bitcoin can/will/is for liberating poor. so they push fast-food technology. | [06:32] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008349 <– ftr, I also stumbled upon this: http://thetarpit.org/2019/a-guide-to-systematically-exploring-the-entrails-of-mp-wp-illustrated-using-some-weird-found-in-the-post-editor . wrapping the input field content in htmlentities did the trick for me, but otherwise I thought this is something particular to my environment | [06:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 18:33:26 whaack: lol til after hitting 'save draft' on a mpwp post with html characters escaped, the escaped characters are evaluated to their html characters, thus hitting 'save draft' twice in succession can alter the content of a post. | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008378 – what is a "draft patch"? | [07:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 00:37:56 jfw: I had a couple draft patches for this and other issues; I could publish next week but will defer to diana_coman on priorities. | [07:19] |
| diana_coman: | such a nice #o log to wake up to! | [07:20] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: fast-food tech seems to me very aptly put, really; think of it: shiny and BIG, cheap and available in 1001 varieties of the same thing, "attractive" if you don't look much/haven't seen much else, shitty content and abismal quality that will screw you up in the end; what's there not to fit, really. | [07:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well done there; for the moment I'd say get out first what you had for this week anyway | [07:23] |
| diana_coman: | then we'll see for next week; if jfw already has an actual solution implemented, there's no need to duplicate the work, can just as well pick his apart :P | [07:23] |
| diana_coman: | and then billymg will pick apart that picking apart so hopefully the end result is fully tested. | [07:24] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: + there is that important part "you don't have to do it yourself!!" | [07:27] |
| diana_coman: | make it out of whatever shit you find, pre-packaged solutions tech or food-wise. | [07:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: why u not in #t ? add it to your autojoin and don't be silly. | [07:34] |
| spyked: | diana_coman, I can quite see the "one size fits all"/"pre-packaged silver bullet" angle. I'm only mildly curious what this says about the code itself, e.g. I looked at the google-android code at one point and it was grossly overengineered. and I suppose that's also the case with code that's otherwise proven to be working under extreme conditions, such as the linux kernel. | [07:50] |
| spyked: | imho useful to make the distinction between "complexity for fast consumption" and "complexity that gives a huge productivity boost" | [07:51] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2018-06-05 mircea_popescu: "thetarpit blog scaffolding is a few kLoC of CL, but lacks *any* editor-side interface" << understand something : i publish more than anyone, and by anyone we don't mean solo operators, we mean whole fucking outfits. there's a reason for this. the fact that trilema is comfortable to me provides those last edges of extra productivity and intellectual leverage that convert exceptional performance into mindblowing performance. t | [07:51] |
| diana_coman: | possibly; at the other extreme, the copy/paste/autogen horrors are anything *other* than overengineering, lol. | [07:51] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: heh, yes, the two types of complexity mirroring the two types of simplicity | [08:14] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-31 diana_coman: there's all sorts of simple and not all of it boring; that there though would be the boring-simple, more like the simple remains of a cut-out than the simple path to the core of an intricacy. | [08:14] |
| diana_coman: | but fast-food is not really about no-complexity at all, quite on the contrary it would seem to me that it's precisely a lot of complexity just of the wrong kind (it's industrial for a reason, after all) | [08:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack lobbes jfw is this all about putting markup in the text or is there more to it (if yes, what)? | [08:41] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-01 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-01#1949009 – hm; now I'll have to see this in detail then. | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, do delete those test-trackbacks, no need to actually keep them in there. | [08:42] |
| diana_coman: | and worse, they obscure actual comments. | [08:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. i implemented a solution last night to prevent select-display from hacking up other tags. I will give it a quick few tests and then publish it and continue with my week's work, if that sounds acceptable. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: might as well publish it if it's done anyway but as a rule, before implementing a solution give some thought and/or ask re what the perceived problem is | [10:35] |
| diana_coman: | because here essentially this is the q now that I have to figure out from you, jfw, billymg, lobbes : what *exactly* is the problem you set out to solve and why is it a problem? | [10:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008365 i think lobbes example is user-error. putting b=http is asking to break a link. however in my example, there is a legitamite reason why one wants to select the text "trilema" but cannot do it because it is the same text found inside the anchor tag | [10:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 21:49:56 whaack: lobbes: i am working on a solution to this http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-31#1948993 . you don't want to put any string for the b query param that is going to match a string inside of an anchor tag. this problem occurs frequently because often the same text in a link you want to select is inside of the anchor tag: i.e. for the text 'mp writes at <a href="http://trilema.com">trilema</a>' if you try to select trilema w | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: write it up and publish it since you have it, there's no harm in that and I'll read it, don't worry. | [10:38] |
| whaack: | kk | [10:41] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008384 << and building off diana_coman's comment, I see at least a couple angles. the first is who the technology is designed for. it seems since the '80s there has been a major push, primarily by aapl and msft, for computers for the masses, i.e. lowest common denominator, 'over 1 billion served'. | [13:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 06:32:40 spyked: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008077 <– lulz @ "fast-food technology". I'm wondering how this translates to software in technical terms. is it just the inflation of code, or what? | [13:45] |
| dorion: | this aim lead to 'point and click' (visual/spacial) rather than command prompt (verbal) usage modality. 'it should be so easy grandma can use it,' etc. further, the incorrect labeling of learned behaviour as 'intuitive', which really means luser ought never have to think, read manual or even error messages. | [13:47] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-09-14 asciilifeform: 'the only intuitive notation is the tit' or how did it go. | [13:47] |
| dorion: | To compensate for low quality user, all sorts of complexity needs to be built in, which is one part of the code inflation. another secondary part, described by naggum iirc (but don't have link handy) is demand for ever more 'programmers'. excess demand lowers quality on the creation side combined with sillycon valley, 'move fast and break things' so we can 'scale' (nevermind profitably) and sell | [13:50] |
| dorion: | to the suckers on the public markets. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | 'point and click' aka click-and-cluck | [13:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-08-29 19:13:57 diana_coman: shrysr: different yes but not better; it's usually touch-screens that they throw at kids from nursery, yes; + "learning to program by click-and-cluck" | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | and all of it coming from the core cause of too much money distributed to idiots; it makes for perverse incentives and the inevitable result of products made for them. | [13:53] |
| dorion: | lol at click-and-cluck | [13:54] |
| dorion: | more technically, "I'll import entire library rather than re-implement the one function I 'need'". and then the 'library' imports libraries. | [13:55] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2018-08-21 mircea_popescu: Mocky he has a point, "library" is oreilly-ism. before the free/open source struggle for power, it was rather a teaching tool. | [13:55] |
| dorion: | which leaves us in dark modern ages where can't buy professional computer — everything is 'sysco' — as well documented in http://loper-os.org , the logs, etc. | [13:57] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008397 << thanks for the nudge. I was idling in there with a couple comments. there was a netsplit shortly after the new voice model spec and went back to reading logotrons and joining here rather than idel there. | [14:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 07:34:02 diana_coman: dorion: why u not in #t ? add it to your autojoin and don't be silly. | [14:00] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-09-14 mircea_popescu: unrelatedly : hey trinque, now that there's actually multiple functional castles the time's prolly come to update the deedbot voice model into awareness of this situation. so how about a patch making voice in #trilema dependent on ~my~ wot, rather than deedbot's own ; and similarily in any castles that ask for it / you come to an understanding with the lords thereof, so they can use the voice model there if they wanna. | [14:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: meanwhile though I rated you and therefore you are not exactly idling in there; while you don't yet need to say anything, it's still better for you to be there. | [14:01] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter hm, whaack , u also not in #t ? | [14:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: nope i am not, I will change that now | [14:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right, letting go of the old habits, aligning to present. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | sorry people for the spew from feedbot. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I rated you in a pm to deedbot, sorry for the delay. The rating was !!rate diana_coman 9 My Master The Marquess Eulora, may I demonstrate gratitude through my actions | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no problem. | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | ftr the feedbot issue seems to be a flaw in how the bot decides which links are "new"; uncovered via unplanned testing when I increased the size of posts per page to make archives easier to use. | [17:32] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-01 diana_coman: just 1. took out content from archives.php 2. increased limit at per page | [17:32] |
| jfw: | Hi all, will catch up on log shortly. diana_coman: I've pushed through and got an outline. (Might be a bit verbose, for an outline.) Will see if I can hammer out the draft this evening. | [17:48] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008388 – vpatch I made to capture my local change, not signed as yet. | [18:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 07:19:44 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008378 – what is a "draft patch"? | [18:17] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008405 + http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-01#1949028 – I expect I'll have to figure out the markup in text point before I'll see what's stupid about using markup syntax to do markup. Is one not supposed to have tags at all in posts? | [18:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 08:41:31 diana_coman: whaack lobbes jfw is this all about putting markup in the text or is there more to it (if yes, what)? | [18:23] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-01 mp_en_viaje: i didn't look into it ; but going by the novel symbol <fn>, i expect he did a stupid thing, equivalent to walking on a rake, by declaring the footnote separators to be tag-like, <fn> and </fn> | [18:23] |
| jfw: | How else does one do links if not <a href="…">? Images if not <img src="…">? And so on. There was the TinyMCE visual editor that billymg's patches removed, is that the preferred thing? | [18:26] |
| jfw: | Then if I want to show the literal characters "<p>", how's that supposed to work? The exact problem I perceived myself to hit here is illustrated as: if you use entities ala <p> save, reload, save again, it turns into <p>, which for one thing wasn't the text I saved and for another it then goes through to the browser as a tag. | [18:32] |
| jfw: | (perhaps deeper: is there a WordPress manual somewhere that I missed?) | [18:34] |
| whaack: | jfw diana_coman: I think that we may be mixing up a few separate issues. Issue (1) is the select-display, i gather this is what MP is referring to and he is saying don't put html markup in your b&e values. Issue (2) is the text editor for mpwp/browser evaluating the output of html entities | [18:35] |
| jfw: | oh oh, I think you're right. | [18:37] |
| whaack: | jfw: mp says don't do footnotes with <fn> </fn>, not that you shouldn't use any html tags at all | [18:38] |
| jfw: | The selection bugs / operator errors are not the thing that I looked deeper at | [18:39] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-01 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-31#1948998 – and moreover, jfw already looked deeper at it, so they'll coordinate and it will be fixed. | [18:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: any chance that this http://ztkfg.com/category/a-sip-of-sicp/?b=Do&end=footnotes#select influenced your decision to do <fn> </fn> footnotes? | [18:41] |
| jfw: | whaack: it is possible as I recall seeing the article before, though it's the sorta thing I might have considered anyway, don't recall exactly. | [18:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I answered you incorrectly for http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008411 . The issue that the three of us were talking about was html entities evaluating in the text editor that I first mentioned here http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008349 . And I also see now that I forgot to include the example of the problem in my post (which was on the unrelated issue I was working on), I will a | [18:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 10:35:54 diana_coman: because here essentially this is the q now that I have to figure out from you, jfw, billymg, lobbes : what *exactly* is the problem you set out to solve and why is it a problem? | [18:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 18:33:26 whaack: lol til after hitting 'save draft' on a mpwp post with html characters escaped, the escaped characters are evaluated to their html characters, thus hitting 'save draft' twice in succession can alter the content of a post. | [18:47] |
| whaack: | dd it now as a comment. | [18:47] |
| jfw: | I'll ask belatedly then: why is <fn></fn> stupid? Just the extra typing? I had noticed the footnote plugin originally used <footnote></footnote> (and still supports it for compat!), which did overflow my threshold of comfort | [19:02] |
| jfw: | My reasoning was that there's already the entity quoting mechanism for entering a literal < (which is how this ties into the technically separate question of the editor), but none for any other sort of delimiter. | [19:05] |
| billymg: | jfw: html tags are fine and meant to be used. http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008357 specifically describes a bug in preserving "escaped" html entities (for example, when you want to output "<p>" in your post, rather than have it be interpreted as the html tag <p>) | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 21:05:59 billymg: whaack: i have run into this same bug myself. the problem is html renders "escaped" html characters as their symbols. e.g. if you initially input something like "<p>" to render a <p> tag it will get saved as such in mysql. but when you edit the post, and the same "<p>" is pulled out of the db and put into the text area, it will render as "<p>" | [19:15] |
| billymg: | as for footnotes, i think it's just easier and more convenient to use the footnotes plugin instead of manually editing markup to produce the same output | [19:19] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008377 << no reason in particular, it was just the first method i stumbled upon that seemed to achieve the desired result | [19:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 00:32:12 jfw: billymg, know a reason to prefer htmlentities to htmlspecialchars? fwiw I can't tell why the former even exists and the docs don't fully specify what it does | [19:21] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008394 << yes, i could include a test for that in the next mp-wp-tests patch | [19:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 07:24:36 diana_coman: and then billymg will pick apart that picking apart so hopefully the end result is fully tested. | [19:22] |
| jfw: | billymg: oh, I certainly like the footnotes plugin compared to manual tagging & cross-linking, ugh. The possibly-stupid thing I did was change my delimiters from 1 to <fn> </fn> (then cut my hand on the scythe because the regex code didn't quote the /) | [19:26] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008411 << i think there may be a few bugs being discussed currently, i was only commenting on the "escaped html entities are not preserved in subsequent edits" bug | [19:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 10:35:54 diana_coman: because here essentially this is the q now that I have to figure out from you, jfw, billymg, lobbes : what *exactly* is the problem you set out to solve and why is it a problem? | [19:26] |
| billymg: | jfw: ah, i see, i must have missed that part of the thread | [19:28] |
| whaack: | bbl | [19:31] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008471 – this, yes; can you tell me what problem(s) were you solving exactly? it got all muddied trying to follow what you were actually doing/talking about there. | [19:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 19:26:42 jfw: billymg: oh, I certainly like the footnotes plugin compared to manual tagging & cross-linking, ugh. The possibly-stupid thing I did was change my delimiters from 1 to <fn> </fn> (then cut my hand on the scythe because the regex code didn't quote the /) | [19:40] |
| jfw: | That if I used 1, Lisp code would be a pain. | [19:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: re < and the like, the question there is why would you want to write those in your text? (I suppose that's why I never got to see this) | [19:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I get that but just change that to some other delimiters, no? | [19:45] |
| jfw: | You never needed to use a less-than sign, or illustrate a tag? | [19:45] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, code is ~always in a pain in text, I agree. | [19:45] |
| diana_coman: | I don't, no; give me an example where you have to. | [19:46] |
| diana_coman: | (I know you *can* do it; I just haven't yet met the case where I *have to* do it) | [19:46] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: can't speak for others but i ran into that when i was displaying some html code in a post http://billymg.com/2019/08/mp-wp-automated-testing-proposal-and-vpatch/ | [19:47] |
| jfw: | I have not met the case where I have to either; but – it's my blog, I don't want it telling me I can't, neh? | [19:47] |
| billymg: | this line: "const postBody = '<p>When in the course of human events…" | [19:47] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: what's the ip for that as I think I have only your old pizarro one | [19:48] |
| billymg: | and without doing the whole < dance it would render the <p> rather than just the text "<p>" | [19:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, sure; the point is: why do you want to input < and the like? | [19:48] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: 192.187.114.50 | [19:48] |
| billymg: | wait, no, that's BingoBoingo's box that it lives on but he provided me with another for my dns record. one sec… | [19:49] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: hm? seems to work, lol | [19:49] |
| billymg: | oh, weird | [19:49] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [19:49] |
| billymg: | and yeah, it's the correct IP | [19:49] |
| billymg: | but when i enter it into my browser it goes to http://bingology.net | [19:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw did you read about feedback ? don't recall if I yet pointed you to it. | [19:50] |
| jfw: | oh hey, I did already have a case of less-thans, in the line of http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/misadventures-in-mp-wp-setup-the-sad-work-in-progress-post/?b=I\%20guess\%20the\%20start&e=block#select | [19:50] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: so inside <code> you mean? | [19:52] |
| billymg: | yes, correct | [19:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you usually write with < and the like or how come? | [19:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | billymg: The bare ip in the address bar doesn't give apache enough information to know it should serve your site. Gotta send a name with the request | [19:54] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: I think I tend to <cite>/<blockquote> code though yes, code is ~always a pain in posts/text (and I hate it too, because it IS text ffs, but can't say I have a solution that I'm happy with, really) | [19:54] |
| jfw: | I did read the d-k rec thread and linked article when first posted, certainly some of the meaning escaped me but yes, what appears a problem might be the world giving a clue that you're being stupid | [19:56] |
| jfw: | "do you usually write with < and the like" – no, and I haven't done that much writing in html really; if I end up with < in plain text and need to post in html, I can run it through 'sed' to escape them | [19:58] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: yeah, it's definitely a pain and aside from typing out the entity code per character i don't have a better solution either | [19:58] |
| jfw: | but was this a separate question from why change the footnote delimiter? | [19:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hence why it's always worth at the very least to first consider clearly what the proposed problem is; I'm still not entirely clear here as to what the problem(s?) you 4 suggest are exactly. | [19:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the main idea is that 1. the software should make it easy for the user to do what *they want* 2. including idiotic stuff if they are idiots | [20:00] |
| diana_coman: | that's I suppose the main surprise in a sense: the trouble with protecting user against own idiocy is that the protection might protect idiots but it gets in the way of non-idiots most of the time | [20:00] |
| diana_coman: | ie working with the user it's certainly preferable to write 1 (or whatever delimiters you prefer eg ^^ ^^) rather than <fn> </fn> | [20:01] |
| diana_coman: | and writing &lg is also not exactly what I'd ever want as a user, really | [20:03] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, on one hand on your very own blog you can of course do exactly and entirely *whatever you want* | [20:03] |
| diana_coman: | and on the other hand, at least from my point of view, different people can well have different preferences, sure | [20:03] |
| jfw: | Needing < to input a less-than is not my doing, it's html syntax, if that was unclear | [20:04] |
| diana_coman: | but I'd say it's at the *very least* worth giving a good thought to the alternative. | [20:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: no, I know. | [20:04] |
| diana_coman: | let me see now if I can in the end identify the various problems proposed: | [20:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008478 – clash of 2 delimiters with Lisp, 1. | [20:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 19:45:00 jfw: That if I used 1, Lisp code would be a pain. | [20:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Nov-2019#1008485 – html code is a pain to display, 2. | [20:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-01 19:47:07 billymg: diana_coman: can't speak for others but i ran into that when i was displaying some html code in a post http://billymg.com/2019/08/mp-wp-automated-testing-proposal-and-vpatch/ | [20:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: re injecting html, that hm, if someone can plug whatever code into your *editor* page, it's already too late to protect against injection really. | [20:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack's problem selecting elements inside an html tag with the b&e mechanism, 3. | [20:14] |
| diana_coman: | did I miss anything? jfw billymg whaack ? | [20:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: ^ ? | [20:15] |
| lobbes: | was about to respond to earlier ping, but that's all the info I have | [20:15] |
| lobbes: | re: #3 that is | [20:15] |
| jfw: | 2 was not among the issues I brought up, fwiw. And yes, the editor thing appears to be more involved than you've described there | [20:15] |
| jfw: | (it's the only one I see as a bug really) | [20:16] |
| lobbes: | (only thing I encountered was #3, and even that only last night. I have 0 knowledge of 1, 2) | [20:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: help me here: what is the bug you see? | [20:16] |
| jfw: | ok, so you want to display literal html code ala <p>. You write it as <p> , yes it's a pain, but it works | [20:17] |
| jfw: | But if you save a draft and redisplay the editor, it shows up in the text area as <p> – not what you typed. | [20:18] |
| jfw: | clearer? | [20:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: doesn't it work within <cite> or <blockquote> ? because code anyway doesn't quite work as plain text/outside of this ie it's not *just* those bits. | [20:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I suppose it's one of those: choose your pain; just choose wisely there. | [20:19] |
| jfw: | It would be the same inside any other tag as I understand it | [20:19] |
| diana_coman: | goes in search of a post-with-code | [20:19] |
| diana_coman: | damn it all, easier to test directly. | [20:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: just tested here and inside <blockquote> it shows as < fine? | [20:22] |
| diana_coman: | lettuce see the rest | [20:22] |
| jfw: | did you navigate out then back in to the editor? just clicking save might not trigger a re-render | [20:23] |
| diana_coman: | goes to try it | [20:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, I did and still can't see it; mind putting a paste on paste.deedbot with an example so I know I'm testing exactly what you're having trouble with there | [20:25] |
| jfw: | will do, can I test with a draft on younghands (as mine is patched)? | [20:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sure, why not | [20:26] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: steps to reproduce: 1) create a new post, include some encoded html character, e.g. < 2) save post, 3) reload post edit page, 4) the < you previously saved will render as a < in the editor text area, so a subsequent save inserts the < into the db, not the < you had before | [20:26] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: did that and…nope? | [20:26] |
| billymg: | damn | [20:26] |
| diana_coman: | but indeed, inside <cite> or <blockquote> or <code>, not just plain | [20:27] |
| diana_coman: | why would you want it inside plain text since it's ..not? | [20:27] |
| billymg: | yeah, same for me, inside code | [20:27] |
| billymg: | goes to try again | [20:27] |
| billymg: | inside <code>* | [20:27] |
| diana_coman: | I've put all 3 since I'm at it,lolz | [20:27] |
| diana_coman: | ie one of each | [20:27] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, I'll wait for pastes from you 2 and I'll try them | [20:27] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: ok, i loaded up http://billymg.com/2019/08/mp-wp-automated-testing-proposal-and-vpatch/ in the mp-wp edit screen and indeed the text area contained "<p>" instead of my originally saved "<p>" | [20:29] |
| billymg: | so for you when you navigate away / hard reload it preserves the "<p>" ? | [20:30] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=DpUR | [20:30] |
| billymg: | ^ that is consistent with what i am seeing as well | [20:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: does that happen on younghands.club? | [20:31] |
| jfw: | yes. | [20:31] |
| jfw: | is it possible you did < without semicolon like you typed here? | [20:32] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: I start suspecting it's something you broke with the latest /trimming patches really; iirc on ossasepia I have the original mpwp, ie not pressed to last vpatch | [20:32] |
| diana_coman: | and that might be | [20:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: no, I pasted exactly what you gave me there and it stays as you gave it | [20:32] |
| jfw: | interesting! I also have the trimming patches | [20:33] |
| billymg: | aha | [20:33] |
| billymg: | ok, let me go look at the patch and see if i accidentally ripped out a htmlentities() or htmlspecialchars() call somewhere | [20:34] |
| billymg: | ah, yes, found it | [20:36] |
| diana_coman: | heh | [20:36] |
| billymg: | "@param bool Whether or not the should pass through htmlspecialchars(). Default false." | [20:37] |
| billymg: | although it's not immediately apparent to me why you wouldn't want passed through htmlspecialchars() regardless | [20:37] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: before i spin up another local copy from the previous patch to test myself, was it in the html editor box that you tested behavior just now, or the "rich" editor box? | [20:39] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: html editor box | [20:39] |
| billymg: | ok cool | [20:39] |
| billymg: | based on what i'm seeing it's hopefully just a flag to set to true somewhere | [20:40] |
| billymg: | but will need to dig a bit more | [20:40] |
| billymg: | sorry all! | [20:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: thank you. | [20:41] |
| jfw: | yw! so neither of us were entirely crazy. | [20:42] |
| diana_coman: | now let's see, of the original 1,2,3 problems, is there anything left? | [20:42] |
| diana_coman: | 1 is a matter of delimiters; 2 is apparently not in the original mpwp; 3 is a matter of citing properly the context rather than term inside link. | [20:43] |
| diana_coman: | did I miss anything? | [20:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: usually nobody's entirely crazy *to start with*; it takes a while :P | [20:44] |
| jfw: | I am satisfied with using [[ ]] or something for footnotes because MP says so, though perhaps not entirely schooled on what's dumb about <fn> | [20:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: essentially it's more you molding to the machine than the other way around really. | [20:45] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: not a problem, happy we uncovered it at least. | [20:46] |
| billymg: | yeah, i appreciate all the "testing in production" it received | [20:46] |
| billymg: | also i see the mistake now, it'll be a one-line fix | [20:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: one of those days I wanted to ask you re machines but atm I gather you rather have to focus on the writing, isn't it? | [20:47] |
| jfw: | quite. | [20:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there's also the faulty span tags i mentioned in my post. and there's another issue that wasn't mentioned yet with the code posted for linking back to the excerpts in pingbacks that i will post | [21:09] |
| whaack: | a fix to shortly | [21:09] |
| whaack: | ^ the problem/fix | [23:26] |
#ossasepia Logs for 31 Oct 2019
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007815 <– ohey, thanks! re. xml parser, it's stolen off github, but code was small enough for me to read and understand in ~1 week | [05:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 13:35:21 jfw: spyked: I thought it was pretty cool that feedbot, at least from first glance, is parsing xml in lisp rather than binding to C libs like every other language I've seen does it. And I look forward to more reading time in your tarpit, once I'm a bit more unstuck from my own. | [05:29] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007819 <– I also hit this problem, sounds like an apache access control issue. iirc there's a .htaccess in wp-includes/wp-admin that needs some tuning. | [05:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 13:41:32 jfw: diana_coman: I noticed younghands.club/wp-includes/js/* are returning 403, which slows the page load and probably breaks some kind of admin functionality. I don't mind disabling JS on the whole domain – loads faster, more secure and all – though this would mean some gadgets like the word counter and autosave won't work | [05:31] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007856 <– lol, fair point. tbf, that particular secretary was always helpful rather than a hindrance, as opposed to the general image of harpies hired for that job. | [05:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 19:53:07 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007805 – spyked, for the life of me, I can't call those secretaries at upg "ladies" lolz; you really are too polite. | [05:33] |
| spyked: | I also worked with some of the harpies at one point, found out that they're overworked and underpaid, as per general chaotic "organizational" pattern in upb. looking at things from that point of view, it's hard to blame 'em now. | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: the access on younghands.club is more lax because of multiple authors from wherever etc; + the "rape & pillage good for highschool" lolz. | [06:10] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: if you publish though your recipe re .htaccess tuning, I'll read and apply if it fits the trouble, ofc. | [06:12] |
| diana_coman: | re harpies though, no, this "oh, we are overworked and underpaid so we'll steal from students (yes, they did, there was a whole thing with the transport reimbursements) + we'll therefore take it on students because we can" is precisely the sort of bullshit that *is* the very problem in the first place; if they are overworked and underpaid, they should *leave*. | [06:14] |
| diana_coman: | there is absolutely no excuse there. | [06:15] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: you know, this "oh, but see it from my point of view, how hard I have it" smacks of ~rezistenta prin cultura ; (and so my blood boils already at 9 am, lolz). | [06:16] |
| spyked: | eh, they've nowhere to leave, they're basically another version of the peasant subsisting on welfare. which means that yes, they'll be overworked and underpaid for years to come now | [06:23] |
| spyked: | diana_coman, had no idea they stole from students, but I don't find it surprising either. their boss and their boss' boss also steals from some bag or another, so this just perpetuates down the hierarchy. I wouldn't be surprised to hear the cleaning staff steals toilet paper, lol. | [06:27] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: nope, there is no such thing as "nowhere to leave" either; loads of land that nobody works because "it's not worth it" so what "nowhere to leave". | [06:32] |
| diana_coman: | and in general, this is what they'll always say, of course, of course, "oh, but there was *nothing else* I could do, poor me". | [06:33] |
| diana_coman: | note also that the one helpful exception you mean somehow could not-be a harpie though surely just as "underpaid and overworked", no? | [06:34] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: re toilet paper, probably they do, yes; but there is no way I'll buy into this passing the buck either up or down; it's again the "oh, it's owned by the state aka by nobody and therefore we can all steal, let's see who is the idiot who still does some work so we can *also* laugh at him", yes? | [06:35] |
| diana_coman: | so no, it's irrelevant if their boss steals too or whatever; they are still responsible individually, there is no we, what. | [06:36] |
| spyked: | re. leaving, yes, their barriers are 100\% self-imposed. it's prolly in the job description too. | [06:36] |
| spyked: | diana_coman, I meant that they most likely learned that habit from their boss. but otherwise sure | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | eh, they "learnt" it as in they saw that they can get away with it just fine and therefore did it, what learnt. | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | sure, precisely the sort of "dobitoaca dracului" , that much I agree. | [06:38] |
| diana_coman: | and in unexpected milestones: we have 1st spam (bitcoin advizee for ze millenial inveztorz!!) on younghands.club! congrats and all that, if I get any time today I'll write it up already. | [06:40] |
| bvt: | spyked: typically they work there for years and see what can be done without getting caught. at some point they start doing stupid shit (subtly sabotaging work) just out of boredom – not like they the work they do ever changes | [06:41] |
| spyked: | bvt, not sure how it goes elsewhere, but in ro they have this elaborate pretense of "public vacancies", where e.g. two people must compete for the job in order for the vacancy to be filled; in reality however the jobs are created on-demand for people who are brought in by relatives etc. (e.g. one of the admin. directors is the dean's cousin). hence my point above that everyone's in on it. | [07:02] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008293 <– yeah, I guess it depends on what policy you wanna enforce. I have a .htaccess in my wp-includes/js/ that looks along the lines of http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Uj-z ; afaik the default setting for mp-wp is to block everything | [07:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 06:12:12 diana_coman: spyked: if you publish though your recipe re .htaccess tuning, I'll read and apply if it fits the trouble, ofc. | [07:07] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: certainly; and I'd gladly burn the *whole lot* of it & them; (now you know just why I didn't want to go and give talks or whatevers there). | [07:07] |
| diana_coman: | the trouble not being that much that they are brought in, but that they are brought in *to steal and pretend*, nothing more. | [07:09] |
| shinohai: | Nothing like waking up in the morning and reading irc logs where diana_coman wants to burn stuff. It's gonna be a great day. | [07:09] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, what would that do for you shinohai, anyway? | [07:10] |
| bvt: | imo this is irrelevant detail, in places where there actually is a competition stuff is ~same (even if there is no stealing). one of profs at our university recently moved to another city because he could not fire his own secretary, who was messing to much with the chair | [07:11] |
| shinohai: | I dunno, I just imagine you as some sort of modern Olga of Kiev, wreaking havoc on enemies with fire and brings smile to my face. | [07:11] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: ahahaha; but I can imagine it, yes. | [07:11] |
| diana_coman: | shinohai: lol! I'll add it to the collection then. | [07:12] |
| shinohai: | It'd make a fantastic addition to Eulora – birds of fire appearing at snap of finger to immolate enemy. | [07:25] |
| diana_coman: | eh, dream on re snap of fingers. | [07:25] |
| shinohai: | Hilariously, didja notice minigame.bz now redirects to https://wot.bz/ diana_coman ? | [07:46] |
| diana_coman: | no idea and it doesn't really matter either. | [08:20] |
| whaack: | jfw: my table prefix was not the issue (it was set to mpwp_) The problem was occurring because the sql statement used for the archives widget doesn't work with the mysql version i am running, 5.7.27 | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | o.O I thought you had solved that yesterday whaack , didn't realise it was still dragging on; is it solved now? | [11:35] |
| whaack: | i did solve it yesterday and then went to bed, just now responding to jfw | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | ah, ok. | [11:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there is a decent bit I have to say on html linking itself before I address the separate personal issue I have with allocating my time to research how a tool works before i use it. I think it makes the most sense to make two posts, one addressing each of these points | [14:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right, no problem there at all | [14:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I report with some trepidation that I didn't finish my outline last night. It wasn't distraction, more of a sulking state where I know I gotta, but something in me just doesn't wanna; then somehow I got unwedged and it started to flow. Clearly a time waste and I dunno what to say other than it's a long standing pattern with my writing and I want to fix it. Gotta focus on other things | [15:25] |
| jfw: | now but I'll get back to it with urgency tonight and remind myself not to pre-optimize. | [15:25] |
| jfw: | whaack: I was gonna say I'd probably been talking nonsense there and maybe check your mysql & php versions? — but too late; glad you solved it then. | [15:27] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008209 << login was successful. | [16:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 17:55:32 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008138 << thanks, I've got the cyphertext, not going to be near my key until later this evening. I'll update once I've logged in. | [16:38] |
| dorion: | diana_coman how long should my review stretch this week? since I applied ~2 weeks ago? | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: whichever you prefer there. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: treat the sulking state with a big ignore and – if need be – force writing ie just *write continuously* whatever until sulky-you can't stand it anymore and rather than keep at nonsense will back off. | [16:44] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aok, thanks. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: from what i read about the new html linking, it seems there may exists a tool that will find appropriate values for the query parameters b & e. however I did not find that tool on the post/in the logs, afaik the values need to be hand crafted. the closest thing i found was the code for xmlrpc on the post, which haphazardly finds a value for b to include in the link back to the source sending a pingback. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: where did you read of a tool exactly? | [17:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it was hinted at in the lines "no one needs javascript to produce a selection" (although that could be because you can craft them now by hand) and hinted at in the linked discussion b/w alf and mp | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: link please | [17:22] |
| whaack: | http://btcbase.org/log/2019-07-19#1923762 i was wondering if this 'selector' was created and i had not found it | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not done, no. | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | and not worth doing as stated there either in my opinion. | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | ie not in js. | [17:25] |
| whaack: | okay ty. | [17:28] |
| whaack: | lol til after hitting 'save draft' on a mpwp post with html characters escaped, the escaped characters are evaluated to their html characters, thus hitting 'save draft' twice in succession can alter the content of a post. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | ugh. | [18:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Is this in the html view or the vestigial visual editor? | [18:51] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: in the html view. afaik the most recent mp-wp patch does not contain the visual editor. | [18:51] |
| whaack: | s/the most recent mp-wp patch/mp-wp pressed to the most recent patch/ | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: add that to your post on the html linking please; a concrete example would be best, too. | [19:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: will do. | [19:09] |
| whaack: | bbl | [19:16] |
| billymg: | whaack: i have run into this same bug myself. the problem is html renders "escaped" html characters as their symbols. e.g. if you initially input something like "<p>" to render a <p> tag it will get saved as such in mysql. but when you edit the post, and the same "<p>" is pulled out of the db and put into the text area, it will render as "<p>" | [21:05] |
| billymg: | so saving again saves the "<p>", not the "<p>" you originally entered | [21:06] |
| whaack: | billymg: yup, that is my understanding of the problem | [21:19] |
| billymg: | this might be helpful https://www.php.net/manual/en/function.htmlentities.php | [21:20] |
| billymg: | running the db output through that before inserting into the <textarea> converts everything to html entities. so tags you intended as tags, e.g. <p>, go into the <textarea> as <p> (rendered as the desired <p>), and tags you intended to escape, e.g. <p>, go into the <textarea> as &lt;p&gt; (rendered as the desired <p>) | [21:23] |
| billymg: | would certainly be a useful patch if you have the time to test further and ensure it works as expected without side effects | [21:25] |
| billymg: | also provided diana_coman finds it a worthwhile use of your time i should say | [21:32] |
| whaack: | billymg: ^ hah that is always a given. yes it seems like a good idea at first pass | [21:32] |
| whaack: | lobbes: i am working on a solution to this http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-31#1948993 . you don't want to put any string for the b query param that is going to match a string inside of an anchor tag. this problem occurs frequently because often the same text in a link you want to select is inside of the anchor tag: i.e. for the text 'mp writes at <a href="http://trilema.com">trilema</a>' if you try to select trilema w | [21:49] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-31 lobbes: in other weird, I found an odd (albeit edge case) bug in the new blog selection mechanism. If you do a select that begins with "http" (e.g. "?b=http&e=#select") it will mangle the selected link in the post itself when rendered | [21:49] |
| whaack: | ith b=trilema you will break the anchor tag instead. | [21:49] |
| whaack: | the other weird about the new selection mechanism is that when you leave no value for e, there is no closing </span> being added anywhere. afaik all browsers handle this by 'closing' the <span ..> tag by putting a </span> before either the next (1) the opening tag of a block element (2) the closing tag of any element that the <span ..> opening tag is nested in | [21:57] |
| lobbes: | whaack: aa interesting. I didn't know that about the no value for e; now that weird makes sense at least | [22:16] |
| lobbes: | and nifty. I look forward to your solution (possibly this was in the #o logz already and I missed it) | [22:16] |
| whaack: | lobbes: there is no solution proposed yet. the first two fixes that came to mind are to (1) make sure that you are not inside of an anchor tag when putting in the opening <span> and (2) to make sure you put the </span> explicitly if you hit one of the above scenarios before finding a match for the "e" value | [22:24] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Oct-2019#1008349 – I had also encountered this | [23:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-31 18:33:26 whaack: lol til after hitting 'save draft' on a mpwp post with html characters escaped, the escaped characters are evaluated to their html characters, thus hitting 'save draft' twice in succession can alter the content of a post. | [23:59] |
#ossasepia Logs for 30 Oct 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: to make sure i understand, you're saying that you can make ~0 inferences on what concepts people have in their heads from the tools that exist presently? or gpg just really doesnt say 'the inventor of this program was clearly thinking about the idea of a wot!'? As for my post, I don't particularly feel inclined to do a research project on previous deployment methods. My point was just to compare V with a V that only ha | [01:12] |
| whaack: | s a genesis patch ability, maybe i should just do that and not try to play guessing games as to what the 'old paradigm' was | [01:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, yes and …yes! | [04:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008128 – might be, except for the fact that there's already a reason why they "buy" it in the first place really. | [07:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 20:41:20 BingoBoingo: has come to believe the "non-aggression principle" is the doom of that sort of crowd. It means they are doomed to suffer the stupid seeking to burden them. | [07:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008062 – those were reading keys, not what you took "keys" to mean here (I didn't want to derail the discussion yest but better noted today). | [07:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 18:02:12 diana_coman: dorion: ahahaha, trilema-articles have lots of keys. | [07:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008092 – here also, investment stands for much more than you took it for. | [08:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 18:23:28 diana_coman: dorion: because he is fully invested in that system, in a nutshell; it would be way too costly for him to "read trilema" in the way you mean it. | [08:15] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wrzJ | [08:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I've rated you too, you can check it via pm with deedbot; the wot.deedbot.org might take a while to update; publish by Sunday a review + plan on younghands.club | [08:46] |
| diana_coman: | ofc, let me know if there's any weird/problem there. | [08:49] |
| diana_coman: | names | [08:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack jfw do get in the habit of adding responses given here to the relevant posts on your blogs, for later ref, I'm not going to keep adding those for you. | [08:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion jfw current tribulations in tmsr might even push your schedule earlier re getting more visible and involved. | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion whaack please add to your blogs the recent comments and recent posts widgets, they are quite useful. | [09:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. ack re linking to relevant conversations done re recent comments/posts. looking into why my archives is broken. | [09:54] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I am still semi-homeless and kid's school is still cancelled. I will update when the situation improves. | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: what happened there? at any rate: no worries here, there's nothing burning or anything and there was nothing pending/with deadline expected from you. | [12:14] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: Power company has decided to cut power for days at a time due to high winds. Has to do with their infrastructure failing causing about 60 people die in a forrest fire last year. I have another place served by a power company that is functional, but working conditions there are less ideal. | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: sounds rather horrible; anyways, as above: you currently have all the time you need to figure out your next step(s). | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I wanted to say re your chan name, maybe something shorter would work better? I never could quite follow your ref there either so maybe I'm just ignorant: why agriculturalsupremacy ? | [12:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It's what I registered back when I was still in old country. The though was there might be space there to do something. Now, with more years, my though is that pursuit of "agricultural supremacy" is a dangerous sort of optimization trap. | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: not like you can't change your mind or can't register another chan though. | [12:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Right. I am however a person who need heavy, constant self reminders to avoid falling into familiar traps over and over again. | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I'm rather sure many others could do with similar reminders; esp on such a thing as optimization traps; that being said, it's your chan so entirely your choice, I just had no idea of the actual meaning, hence asked. | [12:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: So my current understanding of this trap is Uruguay's rice production. World leading yields per hectare, and they can actually export rice sorted by cultivar which no one else apparently does. For this supremacy, the local rice sector is constantly shrinking. | [12:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | Because… Everyone else subsidizes rice and the locals here don't. | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | I see. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | uruguarice, lolz. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | (conflates in my head quite a few things at once but that might be more indicative of my head's contents atm than of the made-up word itself) | [12:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, the Uruguayo exceeded the world class standards with repect to rice production in every way, in one of the few sectors the government doesn't fuck up with gibs… And for the rest of the world's bad behavior… Rice is a local "problem dog" | [13:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suppose the weed thing could also work with the metaphor. Now that its legal, all the folks who planned to make fortunes "when the day came" have discovered there's no space for them. The growing is already solved, well optimized problem, and… how much money is there in wheat anyways… | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | that seems to be the usual way this "planned fortunes" go really, regardless of domain. | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | come to think of the very origin of the word there, it's not even surprising. | [13:16] |
| whaack: | I have spent a considerable amount of time so now I must humbly ask for help on what I thought should-be-easy. I am trying to get the nonjs html linking working on my blog. But I cannot get the QSA RewriteRule setting working as per MP's post. I have ensured that I do have the RewriteEngine enabled and that I can write in my own custom rules. I wrote the rule "RewriteRule ^wack$ /test.html [QSA,L]" in my .htaccess file and it is co | [16:03] |
| whaack: | rrectly redirecting ztkfg.com/wack to the ztkfg.com/test.html. When I put the rule RewriteRule (.*) /index.php [QSA,L] in my htaccess file I get a 500 error that stems from circular redirection. I think that there is a rewrite rule i need to disable somewhere. | [16:03] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008143 – to get into the club only to see so many of who I thought were its pillars dropping and/or flunking out, and the prospects of the republic more uncertain than ever, would be a bittersweet thing. | [16:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 09:00:24 diana_coman: dorion jfw current tribulations in tmsr might even push your schedule earlier re getting more visible and involved. | [16:04] |
| jfw: | (at least if I'm now reading trilema in the right key) | [16:05] |
| jfw: | whaack: you don't want to add a new RewriteRule, just modify the existing one that makes permalinks work | [16:05] |
| jfw: | just adding the QSA, | [16:06] |
| whaack: | jfw: ah I see. I had modified my htaccess file quite a bit a while back and had in my head that it was not part of mpwp, didn't know where the line he was referring to that already had the RewriteRule | [16:07] |
| jfw: | the modifying is fine & proper I expect, at the very least you have to modify the mp-wp provided ones to fit your own IPs; so it's wherever that rule ended up | [16:10] |
| whaack: | jfw: ty, I was able to get it working by looking at the htaccess file from the vpatch. I had that entire section snipped out for some reason. | [16:12] |
| jfw: | now doing my outlining, will see if I grasp the structuring thing | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the prospects are always what people make of them, as always and everywhere; re timing, one can always go "if only" but it's not helping much | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | re pillars, there is a long history of the bar getting higher | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | hence the dropping and the flunking (and the more difficult to get in too) | [16:16] |
| jfw: | 'the ratchet' | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: precisely that; and that's exactly what you witness now (sadly, I saw this before). | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: onth, you are at least unencumbered directly by any of this (or previous similar events), for the little silver lining that there is. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: + relevant for you especially, this particular case is also a very blunt illustration of technical cannot be apolitical. | [16:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 09:43:46 diana_coman: jfw: moreover, what you need to understand and understand *very clearly* is that "technical" is not and can not be apolitical; and as such, you aren't going to be able to push your way anywhere merely on the strength of technical | [16:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008128 << Stefan's case for the nap was/is more radical than most in that he applies it first and foremost to personal relationships and parent-child relationships in particular. on the political side, he does have the goal of reaching the widest audience, which while there are books and webforum, has meant most of his content is audio/video. | [17:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 20:41:20 BingoBoingo: has come to believe the "non-aggression principle" is the doom of that sort of crowd. It means they are doomed to suffer the stupid seeking to burden them. | [17:10] |
| dorion: | more people can listen than read. he sunk a lot of content into youtube and has tasted the bitter fruits of investing on socialist "platforms". | [17:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: It is bitter fruit of marketing ideas to the illiterate. Reading > Listening | [17:11] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008132 << I can't say I've fully unpacked why I bought into it, and I grew substantially from consuming the content. as thimbronion mentioned, actual conversations as opposed to the norm of people talking past one another. | [17:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 07:10:37 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008128 – might be, except for the fact that there's already a reason why they "buy" it in the first place really. | [17:12] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo right. | [17:12] |
| dorion: | A couple points that raised my skepticism were a) "philosopher" who only speaks English and b) talk about freedom, but remain invested in Windows. | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: was that "first human conversation" for you too? | [17:14] |
| dorion: | so I decided I need to humble myself and what I imagine I know, learn more languages, read the text in the original, then see where I am, what I believe. | [17:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not 100\% sure I will finish my V post by this Sunday. The post on proper html linking is going to take time. I understand it needs to show how the new selection mechanism works and also needs to discuss how to prevent my habit of using tools before I understand them. | [17:17] |
| dorion: | diana_coman for the most part, especially at the volume I consumed. an advantage I had, compared to most listener, was my business associate/roomate at the time was also listening along and we were able to practice what we were observing. | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, the specific cracks you notice first are less important than the basic fact that you actually looked and noticed them; which means exactly "not bought into it" from that moment on; hence the above "there's already a reason why they buy it" – at the very least that they don't look but usually there's more. | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the html mess was your own addition to this week's load, eh; if it results in V-post failed again this week, so it will be; good on you for saying it *now* though, yes. | [17:20] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aha. true story : I think the first trilema piece I read was interacting with fiat institutions, which made a big positive impression on me and lead to being lost in the trilema link maze for a good bit until I stumbled upon mp being spaced out where | [17:30] |
| dorion: | he threatens antonopowhatevers. | [17:30] |
| dorion: | showed friend Ashe the articles, "on the one hand, this man is telling the sec to pound sand ; on the other hand, he's telling andreas he'll kill him." ashe, "if he's threatening people I don't have to listen." me, "ah, right, NAP." plus, in my more illiterate phases, I listened to a lot of "let's talk bitcoin." but less than a year later ~I~ couldn't ignore. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008187 – ftr, the fact that ~all of you ended up learning/growing substantially from this guy for all his faults is *not* really *your* trouble; it's more likely – and as rather clearly indicated by the "first human conversation" – the trouble of the environment you grew up in. | [17:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 17:12:17 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008132 << I can't say I've fully unpacked why I bought into it, and I grew substantially from consuming the content. as thimbronion mentioned, actual conversations as opposed to the norm of people talking past one another. | [17:35] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right, which to his credit, he helped me begin to understand, as that's his focus. | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: lol! that part with "if he threatens, I don't *have to* listen" is such a contradiction in itself. | [17:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | FTR, the threat isn't itself an aggression. It's a conditional. | [17:38] |
| jfw: | one offhand comment from Stef that stuck with me was (approx.) "if you lot weren't quite so illiterate you'd realize that almost nothing I do is original" | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | lol, he had enough of the illiterates he went specifically to preach to, or what? in any case, to get at least more out of that than he intended: nothing anybody ever does is really original anyway, it's an old world really and everything has been recycled already many times already. | [17:44] |
| jfw: | "nothing new in the world except for the history you didn't know", right. | [17:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right. BingoBoingo that's what I came to realize. It's something like MP saying, "get off my lawn." by the time the sipa bounty was issued, I interpreted the act more as self-defense from systematic stupidity than anything. | [17:52] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008138 << thanks, I've got the cyphertext, not going to be near my key until later this evening. I'll update once I've logged in. | [17:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 08:42:21 diana_coman: dorion: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wrzJ | [17:55] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008139 << ty! the review + plan will be published by Sunday. | [17:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 08:46:44 diana_coman: dorion: I've rated you too, you can check it via pm with deedbot; the wot.deedbot.org might take a while to update; publish by Sunday a review + plan on younghands.club | [17:56] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: would you mind expanding on the and so on? Listing my goals of the time has been helpful but not sure how to further go about adding perspective. | [17:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 18:50:48 diana_coman: jfw: do me a favour and start not with archeology but with your own original goals and troubles and so on; you already know both the story and the ending there, so chart first the structure of how you're going to tell this and only *after that* and *at writing time* search for the needed references | [17:57] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008143 << while the tribulations aren't… ideal, they are what they are. as for strengthening my own weak arms, one step at a time and the results will be what they'll be. for sure glad I'm witnessing these tribulations from whatever margin of the field I occupy as opposed to the bleachers. | [18:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 09:00:24 diana_coman: dorion jfw current tribulations in tmsr might even push your schedule earlier re getting more visible and involved. | [18:01] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008144 << updated. | [18:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 09:02:59 diana_coman: dorion whaack please add to your blogs the recent comments and recent posts widgets, they are quite useful. | [18:06] |
| jfw: | ^ one of the surprisingly easy things to do in the whole blog setup, really! | [18:06] |
| jfw: | (Appearance -> Widgets, for future readers.) | [18:10] |
| whaack: | jfw dorion did you have to do any tweaks to get your archives working? | [18:14] |
| jfw: | whaack did you try adding the widget? | [18:22] |
| dorion: | whaack I added the widget, clicked the boxes and saved. | [18:22] |
| whaack: | yes i have the widget added | [18:24] |
| jfw: | I'd like to have a titles-only index as seen on qntra and bingology, dunno if that needed custom coding or what, just hasn't been a priority yet. | [18:27] |
| whaack: | i'm getting the error "WordPress database error Expression #1 of ORDER BY clause is not in GROUP BY clause and contains nonaggregated column 'ztkfgdb.wpmp_posts.post_date' which is not functionally dependent on columns in GROUP BY clause;", i'll look into it when i get out of the saltmines | [18:27] |
| jfw: | hmm, "ztkfgdb.wpmp_" is your table prefix? possibly the dot makes for syntax errors | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008213 – goals, troubles, steps taken, interactions, milestones, result. | [18:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 17:57:14 jfw: diana_coman: would you mind expanding on the and so on? Listing my goals of the time has been helpful but not sure how to further go about adding perspective. | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: any text is effectively a path proposed to take the reader from an initial situation to a final situation; so you need to decide at the very least where you start from, what path (ie steps + context) you follow and where you stop; this is quite generally speaking; what specifically got you stumped here though? | [18:34] |
| jfw: | not sure but… I was afraid of just proceeding to list events, archeologically, and missing the point about providing the necessary context or structure | [18:42] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008134 << thanks for the noting. by reading keys you mean then what to take from the text ? | [18:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 07:16:12 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008062 – those were reading keys, not what you took "keys" to mean here (I didn't want to derail the discussion yest but better noted today). | [18:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's an outline, list stuff, move it around if you need/want to, figure out the structure that works best for the way you'll tell what happened; the archeology starts literally if you go and dig in the logs (and you'll surely spend more time on it+ get sidetracked etc), not if you as much as think of events or handle them, no. | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | esp if you didn't do this before, it might take a few iterations but that's fine | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | if it's any help, the reason why I know this in such detail is simply because I spent about 1.5 years writing >=1500 words per day *every day* until I cured my telegraphic-writing-once-per-year. | [18:48] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008136 << ah, yes. thanks for pointing that out; it calls to mind the resistence some have to processing challenging/contrarian arguments, they're not hearing the arugment per se, but what they imagine their relationships would say/react should they present the challenging argument themselves. | [18:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 08:15:47 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Oct-2019#1008092 – here also, investment stands for much more than you took it for. | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: not even relationships but self-investment; think of it, for however many years, he grew/built himself up in that specific environment and he paid whatever price that required of him; add to this that he was here with s.dice and then *chose* to leave and that has its own cost too; just for the more obvious parts. | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: don't optimise it prematurely, lol. | [18:57] |
| jfw: | thx diana_coman, will give it a shot and iterate. | [19:00] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good points, thank you. | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008232 – more like how to approach and decipher it (hence: "key"); there's more than meets the eye directly on trilema articles | [19:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 18:45:17 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008134 << thanks for the noting. by reading keys you mean then what to take from the text ? | [19:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: did you ever re-read a book to realise you had missed on first pass a whole level of meaning, entirely? | [19:01] |
| dorion: | diana_coman makes sense and I've come to realize that; mp has more meaning than I'm able to understand much of the time. early impressions can/do make the wrong impact and if not re-evaulated with more context can pin one into a wrong frame of mind. | [19:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yes, that has happened for sure. puts further weight on to re-read is to read. | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | quite; (and he uses usual-triggers quite often too; all of it quite on purpose) | [19:04] |
| dorion: | diana_coman FUCKGOATS , nigga. | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: aha; so re-read + that's precisely it, the first time you missed (one of) the key(s) | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah, among the more obvious, yes. | [19:05] |
| dorion: | part of the ratchet I suppose, camouflage against idiots. | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | another way to look at it would be from music theory if that rocks your boat better but I didn't get the impression it would. | [19:06] |
| dorion: | perhaps not camouflage, but warning shots to stay away. | [19:07] |
| dorion: | the opposite of camouflage , doh. | [19:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: heh, I was just typing there! | [19:07] |
| diana_coman: | MP is also not exactly one for… camouflaging himself usually, lolz. | [19:09] |
| dorion: | diana_coman there is a classical composer in training in the Junto and our first sessions were on counterpoint, though I'm a beginner in the study, I'd enjoy what you have to say there. | [19:10] |
| dorion: | dorion-mode is a play on the natural minor scale with a raised sixth. | [19:10] |
| diana_coman: | I did wonder for a second there re dorion-mode, heh; now I realise though that I never actually talked in *English* about music theory, drat. | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | so atm stumped for…translation & differences that I'm even aware of between the schools, ffs. | [19:14] |
| dorion: | diana_coman lol, did you write on the ro side of your blog on it ? | [19:15] |
| dorion: | btw, which languages do you speak ? italian and french as well from your time there ? | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: not even that sadly; one of those things "oh, why would I write such a thing, it's obvious and there's no need for it!!" ; to ofc notice later that "if only I HAD WRITTEN IT" | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | romanian as native; english and french from school + later practice obv; italian as it was relatively easy after ro+french anyway; german at basic-middle level (as usual, can read more than speak); Russian about there basic-middle too. | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | well, I did manage around CR with "Spanish" I suppose, but ugh | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | more a matter of "not that far from the rest of latin-based languages" | [19:19] |
| dorion: | diana_coman shucks; when people have asked what my blog is about, I've been going with, "me, what I'm interested in, what I'm learned, etc." | [19:19] |
| diana_coman: | and what, isn't it about that too? | [19:20] |
| dorion: | diana_coman nice, good to know. is the ugh after Spanish cause you prefer it less than the other latin based ? or because less practice before finding yourself there ? | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: no, because I spoke it poorly for sure, lol. | [19:20] |
| dorion: | <diana_coman> and what, isn't it about that too? << didn't parse, mind restating? | [19:21] |
| diana_coman: | "practice" was "here's this grammar book" + well, I'm here and these guys have no idea of anything else, so let's see; it was fun ordering a taxi for sure esp with costa rican "addresses" that go along the lines "it's on the street towards X, about 1.5km, past the car washing, 2nd green gate on the left" | [19:21] |
| diana_coman: | but ticos wanted to understand for sure + it does make it easier to know already other languages from the same group ie at least I wasn't usually *that* far from the right word,lol. | [19:23] |
| jfw: | los direcciones son la direccion! | [19:23] |
| jfw: | *las, lol | [19:24] |
| dorion: | hah, they for sure don't have addresses in panama city either. "across from where xyz restaurant used to be" | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Oct-2019#1008272 – this was re your blog description, maybe I didn't parse correctly what you were saying there | [19:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 19:21:52 dorion: <diana_coman> and what, isn't it about that too? << didn't parse, mind restating? | [19:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 19:19:13 dorion: diana_coman shucks; when people have asked what my blog is about, I've been going with, "me, what I'm interested in, what I'm learned, etc." | [19:25] |
| jfw: | thinks the confusion is the 'shucks' refers to lack of music theory posts rather than what his blog is about | [19:26] |
| dorion: | I meant my blog is about me, not a particular topic. the shucks was in response to no music theory posts I could read. | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | there, jfw knows dorion, clearly | [19:26] |
| dorion: | has enjoyed the conversation and clarifications, but must step away for now. | [19:27] |
#ossasepia Logs for 29 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | ossabot got a maintenance reset to stop logging #pizarro and start logging #trinque ; since I was at it, I've added for now the tiny .ico pics too so no more broken icons; if only all the rest was as easy to un-break as this. | [11:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 18:28:34 PeterL: diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log I get broken picture icon for "young hands" and "ossasepia" at the top of the page, is that expected? | [11:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i'm finishing the saltmines grind that i began yesterday today & half of tomorrow. (i don't consider it #1, it's just easier for me to get it over with at the beginning of the week) i will then prioritize fixing my understanding of the selection tool & write a post examining the root cause of why i use power tools without rtfm first. That being said, I want to make sure that I am taking my V post in the right direction | [11:55] |
| whaack: | . My thesis for the post is that prior to V, the SOP for deploying was, in V terms, to _always_ regenesis. I am then using that thesis to discuss the importance of context for text/software. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: saltmines schedule/packing is fine; re V post, I don't quite see what you aim at there; I suppose you could look at it as "software had no traceable/recoverable/verifiable history at all" but it's rather a stretch to say there was any sort of genesis as genesis/regenesis already implies some V concepts that simply did not exist. | [12:08] |
| diana_coman: | I can understand why you might be looking for a neat description of previous state to help you structure & discuss but that doesn't mean you can just force-fit anything on some flimsy basis of similarity. | [12:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I plan to start actively maintaining #agriculturalsupremacy if you are inclined to point a logger at it | [12:11] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: oh hey, not-bad; mind publishing a post re the what and how of that? I'd love to read it and I'd certainly point the logger + move the bot to it | [12:11] |
| PeterL: | whaack: before v was written it was possible (and it still is) to do the steps by hand to verify authenticity of patches | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | also, BingoBoingo , trinque, lobbes why won't you *ask* MP for a license for your castles? if anything, this was my only initial hesitation re adding the chans – it would make more sense to have them licensed, no? | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: v is not just an implementation, what the ever loving fuck! | [12:13] |
| PeterL: | well, yes, I meant before the first v implementation | [12:13] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: and pretty please, go and write your thesis on the topic on your own blog before confusing newcomers, will you? | [12:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I will ask for the license after getting the mission statement, J-school course proposal done. Depending on what surprises today has it should be 18-48 hours. | [12:13] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: great to hear that! and I'll read it whenever it's ready | [12:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: You're right, I guess genesis is a bad term. Because a genesis explicitly states that there is no prior context, whereas old state was just "here's a clump of software" | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: myeah, you meant the first implementation as if *that* is meaningful there at all; go and write, ask for feedback, do some work first, it's not that hard. | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and moreover genesis is now a V term-of-art. | [12:16] |
| PeterL: | sure, I will write something re v to my blog | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: go ahead. | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: note also that this sort of in-here-but-not-quite-in-here won't end up well; make up your mind and either commit properly or lurk in there in silence as I won't have you or anyone else talk over people who actually committed and are busy at work, wtf. | [12:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. My point is to describe the previous state in terms of V. "hey, if you're just checking the sig on a package and nothing else, that's pretty similar to building just a genesis patch with V. and the only way you can be sure your software is from a trusted source is if you download one big clump that includes the whole enchilada: os, compiler, ect" | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note that there is also the diff re checking the sig on a binary package or a source package, at the very least; I'd say figure out (and possibly restrict as needed) your scope there well, as it can easily end up a huge scope to cover; not to say the exploration itself won't be useful to you, but be aware of what you're looking at in there. | [12:22] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: and for completion, the application 2-steps process applies to you just the same as to any newcomer (if anything, due to do-nothing history, you start with a minus compared to them). | [12:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i am aware of the diff re checking sig on binary or source, i am treating the 'previous state' as the protocol where one signs the source or at least zip of the source (although i admit this is often not the case for 'teh industry') | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and moreover, even if there is a sig, there is in fact no identity attached to it because no wot (and see how this expands your scope all of a sudden? because yes, everything is related, ofc); recall the github and "sig" or "verified" thing? | [12:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: tbh I'd say that the previous field was basically so muddled up that it's not really sane or worth it to try and approach it in such a clean way – it's more likely only to muddle you up than anything else. | [12:31] |
| diana_coman: | I need to go for a bit, I'll be back in an hour or so. | [12:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: although i'm sure the layman way is to download the pub key seconds before its used for verification, people could be building software in the 'old paradigm' with only keys from their wot | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you go with "could be" then they could be building v, sure; except they don't, and going with "could be" is really wishful thinking if not worse. | [12:34] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [12:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: for when you get back, the tools were in place for a seekrit society to have an internal wot. gpg says 'who dafuq is this?' when you import a new key. in other words, if all you see around you in your neighborhood are people 'hammering in nails with microscopes', you can still inference with reasonable probability of being right that somewhere in the world someone is studying microbes, seeing as you know that there doe | [12:44] |
| whaack: | s in fact exist a microscope. | [12:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that doesn't hold, no; having gpg key is not at all having microscope; it's more like having lenses perhaps; and if you go that route, you can equally say neandarthalians ALSO had microscope (and secret societies and V, why not) because look, sand hence silica everywhere, hence lenses, hence microscope, hence etc) | [13:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you can say it the other way around ie the above V is not just an implementation : sure you can have your wot and a manual "V" and so on, yes; but the direction is always from having first the concepts to using them with whatever tools available, no inference holds the other way around precisely because concepts&knowledge are more than one-or-another mechanical … | [13:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 12:13:17 diana_coman: PeterL: v is not just an implementation, what the ever loving fuck! | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | … tool, those are not just equal parts. | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you really must, you can perhaps look for proto-practices that could be traced as some sort of ancestors of V (as nothing quite appears entirely out of nowhere either) but I'm not all that sure that pays off or really helps you a lot there. | [13:56] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007844 << thank you. I'll be ready, looking forward to it. | [14:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 17:04:23 diana_coman: dorion: re footnotes 1 and 2 – it's totally fine, no worries; and it does the job well too, we'll talk tomorrow evening. | [14:06] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-29#1007867 << I plan to ask for a license, though atm I am 100\% focused on meeting my Nov 3rd deadline for mp-wp-bot delivery. Will apply for castlehood once that passes | [14:14] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 15:11:03 diana_coman: also, BingoBoingo , trinque, lobbes why won't you *ask* MP for a license for your castles? if anything, this was my only initial hesitation re adding the chans – it would make more sense to have them licensed, no? | [14:14] |
| lobbes: | but in general I agree, you don't know until you ask | [14:15] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-10-04 mp_en_viaje: so if you don't know, ask ; i'll either give you the thing or else tell you why not, at which point ~you'll fucking know why not~. see ? | [14:15] |
| lobbes: | is guilty of operating under this "assume first" mode before; never serves well | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | indeed it never does. | [14:19] |
| jfw: | Hi diana_coman. http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007845 – confused on this; are you saying the estimates were sane but not sane enough, or the tools too insane for estimating to even be possible, or what? | [14:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 17:55:20 diana_coman: jfw: "At least for one stage Robinson guessed 1.5h, I guessed 7, both ran way over" – ahahaha, this is good for the quotes collection. The sad part of it though being of course that both of you have in fact sane (and experience-revealing, hence the difference) estimates for what the whole thing should be; but there's not enough sane around for the estimates to work even when tempered by some experience. | [14:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: his estimate was that of a sane but inexperienced person expecting a sane environment; it's reasonable to expect to be able to install that in 1.5 hours, what, it shouldn't take a day, a week, a lifetime; your estimate was equally sane but tempered by your experience with computers – obviously more than 1.5hours but still something more or less manageable; nevertheless, the environment being rather insane, it didn't fit into any … | [14:29] |
| diana_coman: | … sane estimates whether padded by experience or not. | [14:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: does that make sense? | [14:29] |
| jfw: | yep, ty. | [14:34] |
| dorion: | diana_coman standing by, fyi, but also no rush as my schedule is dedicated to our convo this afternoon. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: in about 40 minutes. | [15:35] |
| dorion: | cool, ty. | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I'm here though on apparently rather rocky net connection all of a sudden (so if I vanish, you'll know UK is worse than Panama) | [16:19] |
| dorion: | diana_coman heh, thanks for the heads up. where ought we start ? | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do walk me through that mud first: how did you two actually end up in #o ? | [16:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 18:26:07 diana_coman: dorion: you'll have to explain to me tomorrow that pull because in the end between the two of you pulling/pushing one another, it's all as clear as mud who did what here. | [16:22] |
| dorion: | well, jfw entered after interaction with lobbes. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | that doesn't sound like you pulling both , lol | [16:24] |
| dorion: | I came to realize it wasn't just about developing programmers (although I'm not opposed to understanding tech at a deeper level). | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | oh my, if I ever start "developing programmers" do me a favour and shoot me. | [16:25] |
| dorion: | well, the pulling dates date further, prior to #o. since 2015 or so. | [16:25] |
| dorion: | we'd been back on forth about attempting to motivate ourselves/each other to speak up, which then was overcome by this july. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: good, so start from there: from your outlines I gather you heard something related as early as 2013/2014; what was that and how/why did it click only in …uhm, 2019. | [16:27] |
| dorion: | well, in 2013 (iirc) there was THE conference and evoorhees and mjr (josh rossi (satoshi square at the time), who moved to panama and worked for coinapult) attended | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, might be a different THE conference around those parts but go ahead. | [16:29] |
| dorion: | they mentioned it offhand, back then the learning curve was much much steeper for my window-head. | [16:30] |
| dorion: | diana_coman there's a pic on trilema, title is about conspiracy theories. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | but as in what, "there's that weird Romania country" or what? I can't quite imagine exactly what-other-than-mp would get mentioned at a bitcoin conf about Ro, lolz | [16:30] |
| dorion: | as in mp hosted. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yep, there is; voorhees attended a btc conference, yes | [16:31] |
| dorion: | s.dice was still in action, I believe. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | ah, so it was along the lines "been there too"? | [16:32] |
| dorion: | it wasn't stressed by them for the importance that is was, or at least I didn't infer the importance. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | I rather expect it was them preferring to not "notice" the importance but nevermind | [16:33] |
| dorion: | coinapult people were more apt to discuss/reference reddit/twitter , etc. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | ugh; that's the other thing: how on earth did you stay there that long? | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | (and myeah, I'm not surprised at all) | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | at their "reference" I mean | [16:35] |
| dorion: | as far as my own latency post coinapult, i.e. since 2015, I was opened up to essentially a whole new world , not only technically, but politically the latter being more challenging at first. | [16:36] |
| dorion: | you see, I was deep down the rabbit whole of libertarism/anarchocapitalism, i.e. rule, but no rulers. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ah, I see. | [16:37] |
| dorion: | this was primarily driven from material from stefan molyneux (freedomainradio.com). | [16:37] |
| dorion: | he made an attempt at universal ethics, a book called universally preferrable behaviour, which aims to universalize the non-agreesion principle. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw with all of you referencing this guy + that shiff, I did go and try to read them but barfed rather quickly. | [16:39] |
| dorion: | his primarily focus is on self-knowledge, the family, childraising, which I swallowed whole and acted on. | [16:40] |
| dorion: | I can see your barf, so you perhaps can see me finding tmsr from the other side. | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | so how did it go with tmsr/the logs: was it you or jacob finding them? was it you or jacob deciding it was important? then the trouble speaking up – what are/were your main hangups? | [16:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 16:27:29 dorion: we'd been back on forth about attempting to motivate ourselves/each other to speak up, which then was overcome by this july. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | (and yes, attempting here among other things to put together your picture from the other side) | [16:43] |
| dorion: | right now I don't have any hangups, this past week or so has been quite healthy/invigorating. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it :) | [16:44] |
| dorion: | the hangups were a self-perpetuating cycle: started in the freeze lobe of fight/flight/freeze response | [16:46] |
| dorion: | this is important, but I imagine/assume my past is 'sewage in the wine' | [16:47] |
| dorion: | I'll do work on the side to apply what I've learned from the reading (which I've done), but talk 'tomorrow'. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | (I noticed you wrote that in the outlines re your past but that's a bit silly really; we'll get back to it in a bit and clarify) | [16:48] |
| dorion: | then there was the excuse that jfw ought to join too. i'll wait for him to be ready. instead of getting in which'd caused him to get in. | [16:49] |
| dorion: | which is what eventually happened, but quite late. so there is some scar tissue to work through, but what've my 20s been if not several deep transformations. | [16:50] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it's clear as day now how silly it has been, but when amygdala is hyperactive, cortex has less influence. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you see, that's the thing, when you say "my past" you forget that it includes not only coinapult and assorted similars but also all your own growth and following your own mind and finding your feet from what I gathered from those outlines | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | heh, yes; listen, I'm not trying to find fault or assign blame; just to fully figure out where you are. | [16:53] |
| dorion: | right, I dove head first into some relatively risky ventures on a lot of faith; not to mention turmoil in personal relationships; had me in a gun shy loop. | [16:54] |
| dorion: | I don't "regret" going for it when i did, I accept that's who I was and was making the best decision I knew of at the junctures. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: all right, so you pushed jacob first; and kept reading from the side; bought those fg and still not saying anything; then finally jacob said something, got via lobbes here and then? | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | (good for you, there's absolutely no point to regrets) | [16:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman then I was prioritizing installing trb on the rockchip, manaloning (while bouncing some ideas of jfw) as it were. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | avoidance via trb, lolz | [16:57] |
| dorion: | with #t and piz going dark, seemed I'd be noise during the fire fighting. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | and I thought you were the manager there! | [16:58] |
| dorion: | then avoidance by mp-wp | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | heh | [16:58] |
| dorion: | I'm manager by necessity, not because I'm a master or have even been trained by masters, quite the contrary in fact. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | eh, where would one find masters now really | [16:59] |
| dorion: | in #o | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | you have a ton of smarts basically | [17:00] |
| dorion: | stumbling on some humble response | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: still, jacob had to pull/push for you to join; why or what was that? | [17:01] |
| dorion: | final shreds of 'mediocity being intellengence aimed at self-preservation' | [17:03] |
| dorion: | s/intellengence/intelligence/ lol | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | lol, ok; what was exactly this that you read enough ? | [17:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 16:32:57 dorion: diana_coman ok. I've read enough to know I want in. | [17:04] |
| dorion: | your conduct in general and this log in particular. the patience, but assertiveness. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | so you read the full log or what? | [17:06] |
| dorion: | conduct as read from #t and your blog. I've not read #e | [17:06] |
| dorion: | I didn't read the full #o log, but enough to trust. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | #e at the moment is quite quiet; and at any rate, the talk there is more eulora-play than anything else otherwise. | [17:06] |
| dorion: | as I'd gathered from various peaks. | [17:06] |
| dorion: | (i've not gone silent, just don't have more to add at present on this point) | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you said somewhere (and can't find atm the ref but if you don't recall, I'll look for it) that you invested in the strong tech arm – that seemed to be however jacob so I'm a bit confused there | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | what exactly is this current business of yours? | [17:10] |
| dorion: | the strong tech arm is I've improved my skills/understanding through working with jfw and been patient (perhaps pathologically) with the time it was taken. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | (and re patience, see no patience with idiots lolz) | [17:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 16:57:25 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Sep-2019#1002972 – ftr, I do NOT advise newcomers to believe this; there is also for instance the very short life of Bubico Garson (aka zmk) http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-07-29#1925422 | [17:11] |
| dorion: | the current business is a training program + hardware and software. the motto is personal sovereignty through digial security. our target clients know this is important, don't know where to start, but are willing/able to invest in their education/skills. | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: and how is it structured, are you two equal partners there or what? is it just you 2? | [17:14] |
| dorion: | so far none have had prior command line experience, so that's were were start them. over 25 90 minute sessions + homework, they develop system admin skills, compile the entire system, including coreboot, openbsd on edgerouter, then work on trb, gpg, etc. | [17:15] |
| dorion: | it's the two of us and we're equal partners. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | all right; what would be the longer trade relationships? | [17:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 18:08:41 diana_coman: jfw: what trade is that meant to be re "longer term trade relationships"? more/further training or what? | [17:17] |
| dorion: | essentially, jfw has the technology and curriculum development development and training ; I have sales, admin, and working on my training skills. | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: put that way, you need a 3rd person to do management, lolz. | [17:18] |
| dorion: | the idea is there we will reach a threshold of resourceful people that trust us at which point we can develop further business with them rather than continuing to focus on noobs. for example, panama has a somewhat deep btc-tide dollar otc market, but many rely on whatsapp to coordinate. | [17:19] |
| dorion: | you need a 3rd person to do management << i guess it's telling I didn't list that as my primary responsibility, but that's on me too. | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: why/where from this single focus on running an exchange basically? (it's not necessarily bad, just …not the only thing) | [17:21] |
| dorion: | panama also has a history of privacy/asset protection that has been substantially undermined and many are resentful of the undermining, but don't know how to proceed. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | so you basically say that you have there a good market for that, right? | [17:22] |
| dorion: | right. | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | ok; did you ever read hanbot's posts (as MPOE-PR) on bitcointalk? canonical ref | [17:24] |
| dorion: | we're not fixed on exchange idea, but seems logical that once we get clients comfortable with trb and trusting us, we'd be central in that network. | [17:25] |
| dorion: | I've read many mpoe-pr posts, the one that always cut the deepest was 'talking about Bitcoin now matter how loud, does not make you part of Bitcoin' | [17:26] |
| dorion: | it would be good to do another review, proper this time via my blog. | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it might even work; honestly, I have no concrete idea re panama and otherwise just this rather iffy-smell of "where clueless moneyed wannabee so-called-bitcoiners congregate"; but you are the ones there and to the extent that you do find actual people to build up, there's nothing a priori wrong with it or anything of the sort | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | and btw, what's, how was it called… "bitcoin embassy" in panama? | [17:27] |
| dorion: | there are a lot of wannabees , give off get rich quick negative signal to the relatively high class circles , we're aiming to create a new market for the higher class, not deal with derps. | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | good and quite glad to hear it in clear. | [17:30] |
| dorion: | that bitcoin embassy shit down, maybe last year, I don't know was never involved and the operators ran into legal trouble with there related business I hear. | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | well, I never heard of any actual related business but anyways, lol.z | [17:31] |
| dorion: | when I started with coinapult, I'd talk, after getting burned I decided I need to sit down stfu and understand. but that became habit I'm now replacing. | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | as usual, balance is rather more productive, yes. | [17:32] |
| dorion: | the business was cryptobuyer.com , that oneway machine in the panama makes me ill article , the machine that only buys dollars, lol. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | and it's out of them or something, yes. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you mentioned some accounting course for which you didn't quite study though – did you still complete it or what's the status there? | [17:33] |
| dorion: | I didn't complete it, I have all the books. It's chartered financial analyst, level 1. | [17:34] |
| dorion: | it's a global, independent organization. there are 3 levels to receive the charter. | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | and with the reading of management stuff – did you already go through MP's public experience or what are you aiming for there? | [17:35] |
| dorion: | I didn't have a good plan there and it covers quite a bit, including topics that're mainly relevant to fiat fianance, e.g. gaap. | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know what gaap is. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | as I was saying earlier, the Master in Management is MP really, I claim no real management title for myself. | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: anyways, what/how do you think I can help you? | [17:39] |
| dorion: | MP's public experience has made many impressions, but I can't say I've gone through it systematically (no blog was a real problem). this drucker book, 'management: task, responsibilities, practices' is an encyclopedia and I've found many of the points drucker makes MP makes as well. | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | (sounds reference-style book so possibly not-bad; at any rate, it won't be difficult to get a list of refs for you from people who know more, surely) | [17:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I accept my mind needs to be sharpened, and you're the sharpener. | [17:40] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-15-Oct-2019#1006468 | [17:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-15 23:36:16 dorion: diana_coman as for why I'm here: to sharpen myself for sound money and sane computing. | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: funnily enough with you, if anything, I'd need to ask you to stop beating yourself *that* much black and blue, lolz | [17:41] |
| dorion: | I want my blind spots exposed and rectified to become more complete and stronger version of myself. | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | beating your stupidity out of you is fine and good but breaking your own arms in the process is not that great | [17:42] |
| dorion: | hahaha. well that's a blind spot then! | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | I'll end up making dorion-rule: thou shall *not* covet another man's thrashing! | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | those are made to measure so what's yours will be your size, no need to fit someone else's,lol | [17:43] |
| dorion: | hahaha. I'll follow that rule. | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: part of it is that you tend/try to read so much in advance as to what it-could-possibly-fully-be that you may end up anywhere really, kind of hard to tell upfront. | [17:44] |
| dorion: | you see, going through the review it dawned on me that part of my log reading was a form of masochism. | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | or are you trying to beat yourself first before another one has the chance? lolz | [17:46] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right, after enthusiastically leaping x 2 , a protection mechanism developed and jfw's 200 ft of solid rock further contributed. | [17:47] |
| dorion: | as much as we've helped each other, there's also been a shared dilusion. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, can't know what you don't know, sure. | [17:48] |
| dorion: | it was something like beating myself up prior to anyone else being able to. but I'm ready to work to let that go. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you keep mentioning in your posts the coyness /inner coyote; what is this really about? | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: aha, that's exactly what it looked like. | [17:49] |
| dorion: | mp has been using coy somewhat frequently recently, so it was fresh, but dates back to generally having a somewhat shy side. | [17:50] |
| dorion: | no surprise that usian childhood is so very artificial and unhealthy. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | well, I had such a extremely healthy childhood that I can't quite comment there, lol | [17:52] |
| dorion: | when I was younger, I mostly made friends through sports, where I was strong. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | and how does this coy/shy apply here? | [17:53] |
| dorion: | well primarily taking me such a long time to speak and exacerbated by the 'inner bully'. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | eh, speak, there's nothing worth keeping that you might lose just for the speaking; quite the opposite | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | (and in fact the whole world to lose for keeping silent) | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: say something. | [17:59] |
| dorion: | digging for a link, 1 sec. | [17:59] |
| dorion: | item iii. of http://trilema.com/2014/time-for-some-bitlicenses-of-our-own/ perhaps lead me to believe otherwise. but I should've asked rather than assumed. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahahaha, trilema-articles have lots of keys. | [18:02] |
| dorion: | perhaps more accurate to say my own stupidity lead me to believe otherwise | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: but as with all other things, context is important of course; ie "speak" doesn't mean "say anything anywhere to anyone" | [18:02] |
| dorion: | I knew the key, but then was derping with the select on number iii which is tough since the repetition. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | it just means speak your mind clearly and openly when it's your turn. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: lol! | [18:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman i think lack of context made lead it to making a deep impact I didn't understand. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | I can see how that could happen; what's with the Junto, does this overlap with your training/clients? | [18:05] |
| dorion: | but your clarification and further context I've since gathered makes sensee. | [18:05] |
| dorion: | the Junto was started among jfw and another friend here for mutual improvement, back in January 2018. distill and deliver valuable information to the group and excercise the communication muscles. it has since grown to 7 regulars and yes, 3 have become clients. | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | good old human networking, what else; good for you. | [18:08] |
| dorion: | we were doing weekly up until summer, but have backed off to twice a month. we focus for two hours, then go for a meal/drinks. | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: where are you as relationships with all the coinapult/similar former crowd? | [18:09] |
| dorion: | I've not keep up very much. I visited my friend Ashe in denver in 2017, saw Justin Blincoe there (coinapult coo/cfo turned shapeshift cfo), scored a free lift ticket from erik to a-basin, but didn't see him. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | that's not saying a lot either way; what do you think is/was the problem there anyway? | [18:13] |
| dorion: | I think the problem is they're aiming for the masses rather than elite. think bitcoin can/will/is for liberating poor. so they push fast-food technology. | [18:15] |
| dorion: | and operate as fiat companies primarily. | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so if tomorrow they magically agree with you to "aim for the elite", the business will work? | [18:16] |
| dorion: | the problem is they're not reading trilema seriously, think they know better. | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | eh, how do you know they don't read it seriously or how do you even evaluate that? | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | and what, they are hm, fine, enough money, serial entrepreneurs, all that, no? | [18:17] |
| dorion: | I don't know what would work and to what extent their reputation is damaged. but say evoorhees asks for !!up tomorrow in #t . | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | aha, say he does. | [18:17] |
| dorion: | I evaluate there actions and what I can see, and as i type the negative space comes to mind. | [18:18] |
| dorion: | their* | [18:18] |
| dorion: | if he does, seems it depends on how the conversation goes, what causes are being acted from. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the trouble is that people are what they are, each of them; just like there are no causes that can really transform a chicken into a hawk, there are also no causes that can possibly transform one from serial entrepreneur in fiat system to bitcoin independent mind | [18:21] |
| dorion: | i shouldn't say that they're not reading, cause I don't know. but I ask why was erik pushing segwit 2x in 2017 instead of linking to trilema and being present in the forum ? | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | there might be those (and esp young ones) that are still searching and so end up in all places, it's not about where one has been but simply about what one does in a given situation | [18:22] |
| dorion: | diana_coman letting these sink in over here. | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: because he is fully invested in that system, in a nutshell; it would be way too costly for him to "read trilema" in the way you mean it. | [18:23] |
| dorion: | I can see that. s.dice wasn't though and I'd wager shapeshift equity is smaller in his portfolio than btc proper, but he did catch the altcoin bug, which when I met him he was a 'maximalist', 'there can only be one.' | [18:26] |
| dorion: | whatever is going on in his brainbox, I can't control ; I'm not bitter nor have ill will. what I can and must control is my brainbox and acting from what I understand to be true, which I want to do better. | [18:29] |
| dorion: | the problem could be rooted in ESLism for all I know. | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eh, you have quite some learning to do for evals; at any rate, I don't wish on you that you end up at some point in the middle before you got to figure out clearly with whom you'd stand if need be, that's really the cause of the question. | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: to ask it perhaps in a easier-to-answer way: what/how strong is still their current pull on you? | [18:34] |
| dorion: | diana_coman as in, if someone asked them about me, what'd they say ? oh, strike that I see, 'with whom I'd stand'. yes, I'm here committed to learning to act correctly. | [18:34] |
| dorion: | I've not kept up with them much. most I've not spoken with in a couple years. | [18:35] |
| dorion: | this is also what I ment by investing with jfw. and why I'm here. | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | not like there's any interdiction on speaking to them or anything; the question is more whether you still find what to actually talk with them (other than generic chitchat really) if in the same room and if you are sure you'd rather be here than there. | [18:38] |
| dorion: | both in #o and panama. the former to strengthen myself and add whatever value I'm capable of giving back to tmsr. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: all right then, I think you had enough grilling and fair warning; I'll gladly take you on and I'll set you up on yh by the end of this week for sure. | [18:39] |
| dorion: | if/when i do talk to them, i'd be more about curiosity as to why they've not engaged rather than see what opportunities there'd be for me to fit myself into their system. | [18:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you still have the series of posts so I think that'll keep you quite busy for now | [18:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm honored. and it was a pleasure. | [18:40] |
| jfw: | been following, cheers | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | are you all right to plan those now? | [18:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'll ask as soon as I find myself stuck. | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: heh, good idea | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I saw you added a comment but I didn't yet get time to read it, I'll get to it in a bit but ask me here if there's something you need for this week's tasks | [18:42] |
| dorion: | fist pumps. | [18:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: welcome! and have fun. | [18:43] |
| dorion: | and jfw let's make a real cheers soon. | [18:43] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: mostly I listed the planned steps for writing, such as they are; certainly interested in your critique when you get the chance, doesn't have to be this minute tho. | [18:45] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [18:46] |
| dorion: | looking forward to the re-read, as in actual read, here. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: acutely missing from there is the perspective aka something to guide your structuring | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | so you'll likely end up spending until Thursday/Friday reading forever more and accumulating notes/whatevers since there's always more to read/grab/do/avoid-thinking-of-the-ugly-how-the-fuck-do-I-do-this | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do me a favour and start not with archeology but with your own original goals and troubles and so on; you already know both the story and the ending there, so chart first the structure of how you're going to tell this and only *after that* and *at writing time* search for the needed references | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how about that? | [18:50] |
| jfw: | sounds more productive, yes | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so aim for an outline by tomorrow evening the latest, the actual writing Thurs/Fri, review Saturday and you're done | [18:53] |
| jfw: | alright | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | you'll be fine, there's more rock under your foot than you imagine :) | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow | [18:54] |
| jfw: | thanks, cya! | [18:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | has come to believe the "non-aggression principle" is the doom of that sort of crowd. It means they are doomed to suffer the stupid seeking to burden them. | [20:41] |
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Oct 2019
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007694 <– works fine on this end. jfw is right, the xml is rejected because of extra whitespace before first declaration | [03:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 17:04:29 asciilifeform: diana_coman: 2nd draft posted. (feedbot appears to be wedged??) | [03:23] |
| spyked: | ftr, feedbot's xml parser has no postelisms, it parses xml prolog strictly as described in spec. so arbitrary chars before the prolog will be rejected and parsing will fail. | [03:25] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: it turned out indeed that asciilifeform's rss was broken there; no fault with feedbot for sure. | [04:47] |
| spyked: | yeah, I answered before digesting the full convo. it seems that complaints of service malfunction early in the morning have this effect of making me spring into action before fully waking up | [05:29] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007795 <– this reminds me of younger self joining the dept at uni as teaching assistant and getting a look from one of the secretary ladies, followed by "oh, you're X's!" where X was one of the profs I was working with. view's well entrenched in ro mentality, someone had to bring me and mentor me there, no question about it. | [05:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 19:27:53 diana_coman: traditionally nobody cared about surnames, it would always be literally, you are X of Y's (aka your father's ) and the usual question in villages goes exactly like that: whose are you? | [05:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will reiterate here my fuckup. I failed to open my mouth re missing my deadline w/ my post on V at the moment i wasn't 100\% sure i'd finish on time. I tried to scramble and fix the post on the last day, but I knew I had to completely rewrite the post from the feedback i had received on my other posts for the week. In my attempt to put together the piece, I | [12:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-16 13:12:59 diana_coman: 1. the moment to open your mouth re deadlines is *as soon as you are not 100\% sure you'll be on time*; and the VERY LATEST, 1 day before the deadline | [12:46] |
| whaack: | pushed back my review/plan post. That lowered their quality. I also forgot to hit the publish button on my plan post until i woke up. | [12:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect I missed something in the LAMP setup which is why pingbacks aren't firing. Will take a look this week. | [13:29] |
| jfw: | trinque: belated ty re http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007641 . I expect I'll have questions on right things to learn when the time comes. | [13:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 23:36:56 trinque: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007554 << remember that it's an artifact, not a textbook. it's liable to teach you the wrong thing, possibly better off not touching it for now. | [13:29] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007798 – ha, that's the word I was looking for without realizing it. | [13:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 19:29:46 diana_coman: certainly; and for that matter similar reason as to Russian patronymics, obviously. | [13:31] |
| jfw: | spyked: I thought it was pretty cool that feedbot, at least from first glance, is parsing xml in lisp rather than binding to C libs like every other language I've seen does it. And I look forward to more reading time in your tarpit, once I'm a bit more unstuck from my own. | [13:35] |
| thimbronion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007684 << I believe I've made some progress here but I can't discuss it now as consulting will need to occupy all of my attention for the next 2 days or so. | [13:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 16:52:48 thimbronion: diana_coman: ok I will spend some time to try to figure it out. | [13:39] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: also things are in general a mess here in California with the power being out an school cancelled. | [13:39] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I noticed younghands.club/wp-includes/js/* are returning 403, which slows the page load and probably breaks some kind of admin functionality. I don't mind disabling JS on the whole domain – loads faster, more secure and all – though this would mean some gadgets like the word counter and autosave won't work | [13:41] |
| jfw: | I'll add that yesterday was a long Sunday; all my posts overflowed the time slots I'd arranged and I got 'em in just before the extended bell. Turning the WP article notes from plain text to something vaguely readable in HTML proved a particular pain. Plenty of incentive to avoid that happening again… | [14:16] |
| jfw: | Gotta run for now. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007809 – aham; why stop at 1 problem when you can snowball it into a whole mess, right? and admitting to it is one step but that's not going to do anything by itself for next time. | [15:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 12:46:48 whaack: pushed back my review/plan post. That lowered their quality. I also forgot to hit the publish button on my plan post until i woke up. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007818 – take the time to figure things out, because unless/until you do that, the rest of the motions by themselves won't help, no. | [15:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 13:39:43 thimbronion: diana_coman: also things are in general a mess here in California with the power being out an school cancelled. | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007819 – right you are; I generally run with js disable so didn't even notice; the mp-wp on yh is stripped down really and js stuff was discarded indeed (eg tinymce iirc); | [15:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 13:41:32 jfw: diana_coman: I noticed younghands.club/wp-includes/js/* are returning 403, which slows the page load and probably breaks some kind of admin functionality. I don't mind disabling JS on the whole domain – loads faster, more secure and all – though this would mean some gadgets like the word counter and autosave won't work | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007820 – lol, follow the incentives! | [15:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 14:16:24 jfw: I'll add that yesterday was a long Sunday; all my posts overflowed the time slots I'd arranged and I got 'em in just before the extended bell. Turning the WP article notes from plain text to something vaguely readable in HTML proved a particular pain. Plenty of incentive to avoid that happening again… | [15:44] |
| asciilifeform: | guten tag diana_coman . got 5min ? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I literally just got at the comp, still catching up on logs and everything else; if it burns though, I'm listening. | [15:49] |
| asciilifeform: | not burns. | [15:49] |
| asciilifeform: | can do after catch up. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: wtf is that link you gave in this comment ? | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | as jfw correctly points out, it's not even the right link nor the original link; and I'll add to that: it's not even a proper link at all, it's a monster you made out of mixing stuff you use like an idiot without even looking at it. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: read the fucking manual as many times as you need so you KNOW IT before you get your fingers in all sorts; and then go through your blog and comments and *everything* and fix so you use the correct selection format *everywhere*; keep track and write the report of this mess. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | talking of snowballing messes. | [15:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: investigating & reading | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: don't use stuff without as much as reading the manual or you'll end up writing reviews of your refrigerator's manual and publishing pics of its internals at most, what programming and such things. | [15:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes it was incredibly stupid to just take MP's comment literally without doing any investigation of how the selection mechanism works. I added fixing my understanding of html linking to my task list for the week, for now I need to return to saltmines. | [16:30] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: plz join #a when you get a chance (my logger there will continue to function, it aint mp-powered), imho my q for you is offtopic in #o. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I'm in # | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | in #asciilifeform | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re footnotes 1 and 2 – it's totally fine, no worries; and it does the job well too, we'll talk tomorrow evening. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: "At least for one stage Robinson guessed 1.5h, I guessed 7, both ran way over" – ahahaha, this is good for the quotes collection. The sad part of it though being of course that both of you have in fact sane (and experience-revealing, hence the difference) estimates for what the whole thing should be; but there's not enough sane around for the estimates to work even when tempered by some experience. | [17:55] |
| PeterL: | diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log I get broken picture icon for "young hands" and "ossasepia" at the top of the page, is that expected? | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: I don't have any icons for either really so yes, there's no pic. | [18:29] |
| PeterL: | in the source it looks like there is a img src="/static/yh.jpg" | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: yes, I changed the source but no, there is still no pic because no pic & bottom of the pile in terms of priority | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, if anyone in younghands wants to make a pic, speak up people, it's the place where you write too! | [18:35] |
| shinohai: | oldhands.club, when? | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | shinohai: lol; you interested or what? | [18:47] |
| shinohai: | keks, my days pretty full at moment as shitcoin warrior and smattering of projects. eulora ebuild still not off table for me when minigame.biz returns and I can ensure integrity of sources I have stashed away. | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | !o uptime | [19:23] |
| ossabot: | diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 20d 1h 7m | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Oct-2019#1007805 – spyked, for the life of me, I can't call those secretaries at upg "ladies" lolz; you really are too polite. | [19:53] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-28 05:35:52 spyked: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007795 <– this reminds me of younger self joining the dept at uni as teaching assistant and getting a look from one of the secretary ladies, followed by "oh, you're X's!" where X was one of the profs I was working with. view's well entrenched in ro mentality, someone had to bring me and mentor me there, no question about it. | [19:53] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: upb ofc (though upg too, that's the one in ploiesti) | [19:53] |
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007629 – misclassification indeed. | [04:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 18:35:12 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-21#1007023 << Just realized I missed this question. Well, in our PM convo at the end of September I decided to pause my current study in diana_coman's school so as to gain an understanding of what, specifically, I would wish to gain from it. In my head I had lumped the penance posts under this set of study, though perhaps this was a misclassification | [04:13] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 13:57:58 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002548 – lobbes, what ever happened to/with this? | [04:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 15:05:59 lobbes: diana_coman: interesting. I will do this, ty | [04:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007633 – is this the sort of fun that keeps you going or the sort that means you'll need a few days *after it* to be able to do anything useful again? | [04:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 18:47:29 whaack: diana_coman: I was just invited to go to Nicaragua next week from Thursday-Monday for a friend's birthday. (The same friend I was considering living with before) It looks like a++ fun, but it is quite a few days to give up. I am asking both for permission to go and guidance as to whether or not I should go. | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007641 – thank you trinque for stating this clearly for jfw ; he certainly has other things to do atm. | [04:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 23:36:56 trinque: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007554 << remember that it's an artifact, not a textbook. it's liable to teach you the wrong thing, possibly better off not touching it for now. | [04:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i admit i would need to take care to ensure it is the former and not the later | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: honestly, it sounds like you'd be way better off *without* that, esp since you aren't really lacking holidays otherwise; maybe meet the guys sometime in CR before/after that trip rather than sink those days in it. | [11:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright i will not lack in seeing them, i see them multiple times a week in the surf. | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: cool then; and btw, didn't you promise some photos/post of that wonderful view from your place? | [11:43] |
| whaack: | yes by EOD tomorrow latest! | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | heh, all right. | [11:44] |
| whaack: | i'm going to go on a walk and grab some more photos, brb 30min | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | enjoy! | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: are you back from Hawaii? | [12:20] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I am back and will be available in roughly 2 hours. | [13:01] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I also intend to write my plan and review at that time, although I could use some direction as to what to discuss in them. | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: make that more like 4 hours or write it down and I'll read it around that time. | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: see that comment I left on your blog and maybe answer that there first. | [13:05] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: ack | [14:42] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: http://thimbron.com/2019/10/hawaii-communication/#comment-37 << answered and enlarged images | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: ugh; listen: 1. use feedbot and subscribe to your own blog's comments at least so you actually see them more timely + you'll figure out why there's no need to ping 2. pics on blog have a medium size that fits your theme + linked to bigger size (IF that exists, you don't just enlarge a low res image ffs) ; mpwp even does that for you, dunno how you managed to mess it up there so badly. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | and you know, stop doing just the shape of things, there's a point to them and if you don't get the point, just doing the motions won't help any. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: this even strikes me as quite similar to your communication issue, it's almost as if you somehow interact/see the world quite flat/missing some dimensions entirely | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you re-read those annotations of yours? | [16:36] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I discovered in Hawaii that image uploading is not working. I added img tags linked to images uploaded to another server. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: just fix it, will you? | [16:37] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: yes, I will. | [16:37] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: ok I will use feedbot. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: good; still: why use feedbot? | [16:40] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: because it will notify me in irc so I don't have to check my rss reader. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: so what? | [16:44] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: That said I saw your comment immediately after you left it, but didn't have large enough time slot where I could focus enough to respond until now. | [16:44] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: so that I can respond in a timely manner. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: this then doesn't fit as it is; why? | [16:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 13:05:07 thimbronion: diana_coman: I also intend to write my plan and review at that time, although I could use some direction as to what to discuss in them. | [16:46] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I don't know why this doesn't fit. | [16:49] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I will have to step away in about 10 minutes. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: so try to figure it out, like a puzzle if nothing else; take your time too but don't just remain stuck at "don't know"; it's part of your problem. | [16:51] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: ok I will spend some time to try to figure it out. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: understand that there is no possible way for me to direct you at such extremely basic level, it would be ~psychological equivalent of moving your limbs about like a puppet and for one thing I really don't think that's sane or helpful even if it were possible. | [16:55] |
| thimbronion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007679 << diana_coman: are you referring to "direction" from here? | [16:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 16:46:06 diana_coman: thimbronion: this then doesn't fit as it is; why? | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: hm? I don't get what you are asking | [16:58] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: when you say "direct," are you referring to me asking for direction on what to address in my plan and review? | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: the "to direct" in http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007685 ? it's more general really; essentially when you get stuck and/or just go through the motion of a requested thing without (apparently) knowing what and why was the point requested. | [17:02] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 16:55:27 diana_coman: thimbronion: understand that there is no possible way for me to direct you at such extremely basic level, it would be ~psychological equivalent of moving your limbs about like a puppet and for one thing I really don't think that's sane or helpful even if it were possible. | [17:02] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: ok. I will think about this some more. I have to step away now. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [17:03] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: 2nd draft posted. (feedbot appears to be wedged??) | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: hm, it worked just a minute ago so possibly it just takes a bit of time? | [17:10] |
| asciilifeform: | possib | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | it depends on whether your rss announces immediately or not too; at any rate, I'll read in a bit. | [17:11] |
| asciilifeform: | ty diana_coman . read when you have time. | [17:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. i wrote them once, then corrected. then i waited ~5 hours and corrected them again. when i did my last proofread, i was quite dismayed at how bad it started. i felt i needed to do perhaps another 2nd wait and proofread, but i decided against it for the interest of time | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: other than the proofread though – how useful do you think they'd be for someone new to V and/or to that code? | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: even more to the point – why did you annotate the code there? | [17:19] |
| whaack: | whaack: i annotated the code to demonstrate i understood what it was doing. i think the stupid part of my annotations is that i have notes on "every function". so for the very simple functions my annotations are just noise | [17:22] |
| whaack: | (err ^ quotes should not be there for "every function") | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, that's not really the problem; the issue starts from what you just said really: there always is a marked difference between saying/writing something to demonstrate your understanding vs saying/writing something to make a point/communicate some knowledge; and you need to take this step and move away from school-style to adult-style | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, you are doing it because I ask it but there is a reason for which I asked for it and therefore there is a point to the task beyond demonstration of obeying the order, right? | [17:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: of course | [17:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so if i understand correctly I need to structure the post with the idea in mind that the next person learning V has an easier time should they read my post, not just rewording the entire code (which is only going to make it more confusing) | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not even that exactly, heh; remember causes vs purposes? what you say would be focusing on a purpose and as such, you can't quite deliver because… how exactly do you know what "the next person learning V" needs to have an easier time? | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the thing is: the point of annotations are not to prove your understanding, no; the point of annotations are to illuminate that which is annotated, correct? | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | is* | [17:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | sorry for the messed up grammar there, it's been a long and weird day here. | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then that's your focus and measure at each step: does this annotation bring some more light on what this code does and how/why? | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you ever have the dubious pleasure of using windows help? (or similar) | [17:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i don't know what windows help is | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: happy you! lol; ok, let me fabricate an example then, 1 sec | [17:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that makes sense for the goal with annotating. i must admit i believe i do not fully grok the causes over purposes theme that is so often mentioned here | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the clear dividing line there is time really; ie you have to base your decision on past or present, never on the future (because you can't possibly know it) | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the windows-style help I had in mind makes free use of circular definitions in a nutshell; eg "enter your 10-digit hwoegt code" "what is a 10-digit hwoegt code?" "that is your code that has 10 digits and is hwoegt" | [17:40] |
| whaack: | lol | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | hmrc.gov.uk excels in such help too but I really don't want to look atm. | [17:41] |
| whaack: | is that like the paperclip guy? | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: pretty much,yes; the paperclip guy is an animated version of nonsense-delivery including circular definitions and the like, so yes. | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but look that you have some good examples too in there e.g. note 11 goes in the right direction; possibly precisely because you were focusing on saying something there. | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also note 9 is not-bad. | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, 3 seems even wrong actually. | [17:47] |
| whaack: | takes a look | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, no; it's fine, I just misread, sorry. | [17:48] |
| whaack: | ok | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so, would you be able to implement V now? | [17:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i don't see why not | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | so do it then. | [17:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i will make it #1 for next week | [17:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: may i try to write it in CL? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you read the causes vs purposes canonical ref? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why not, it's your V :) | [17:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i have read it but i will read it again | [17:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: your point on time being the key factor sheds some light | [17:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as i received your message about time being the dividing line i had just finished typing " my understanding of causes over purposes is ~ when studying a phenomena, there is little to gain pondering the question for what purpose does this occur? but instead one should ponder what caused it to occur." | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | certainly; to start with, it can't possibly occur for a purpose anyway, how would that work | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | it might be that someone did some action with some purpose in mind, sure, but that still doesn't mean the action occured for that purpose; it still occured from some causes. | [18:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i guess i was thinking the point is to try to find those causes instead of guess the purpose in mind | [18:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but that might not be correct if you're studying the action because the purpose in mind is the cause of the action | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, aiming to find what goes on in people's minds is rather iffy anyway, not sure you can "find" with any certainty such a thing really. | [18:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right but that may be a separate problem from the causes vs purposes | [18:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: back to our example of V. can't one say switching my annotations from being 'to show i understand Stan's code' to 'to illuminate the meaning of the code' is simply switching my purpose? | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thoughts are reactions themselves, you know? | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, one can say anything really | [18:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes re thoughts being reactions | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | you don't swith the annotations, you switch the way you approach the task: the 2nd approach focuses on the existing code and its clarity and improves on that, it starts from "how can I make this clearer?" | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | you can however, pervert that into a purpose, sure; this is why I'm saying "one can say anything really"; it's possible to aim for whatever notion you may formulate as to "illuminated code" and so pursue that future-illumination, regardless of any causes. | [18:12] |
| jfw: | asciilifeform, spyked: http://younghands.club/2019/10/27/jfw-review-week-of-oct-21-2019/#footnote_1_120 re http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Oct-2019#1007694 (and my apologies, I should have said here when I noticed) | [18:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-27 17:04:29 asciilifeform: diana_coman: 2nd draft posted. (feedbot appears to be wedged??) | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and nobody can give you a fool-proof statement of task as it were. | [18:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i believe i understand better. you referred to c vs p because i said " oh so my approach to the task is to make it easier for the next person who learns V" but that is making a wild guess of what will be helpful in the future | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes. | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, so feedbot is actually down? | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: ? | [18:14] |
| jfw: | ^ specifically sees eggog on loper-os | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: do you have your rss messed up somehow/ | [18:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ty. i have to eat so i may be slow to respond for a bit. | [18:16] |
| jfw: | likewise grabbing a bite then back to remaining posts | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, it's actually enjoyable reading your review? | [18:19] |
| jfw: | why thank you diana_coman, felt good to get it out | [18:19] |
| jfw: | though I caught myself spinning for a sec on 'publish' button… "am I SURE sure sure?" | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the one part that hasn't been mentioned much around here yet but I start thinking might be relevant to you: it's important to prioritize and to do *that* well. | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh; sure you're sure, what. | [18:23] |
| dorion: | prioritize prioritization ! | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ha, you know that's anyway even more your task as a manager than his, right? | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [18:23] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman, jfw : i haven't made any changes to rss since last post | [18:24] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yes, and failing that over the years caused me to pull both of us in here. | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you'll have to explain to me tomorrow that pull because in the end between the two of you pulling/pushing one another, it's all as clear as mud who did what here. | [18:26] |
| asciilifeform: | actually strike that : loox like my doublequotes fix somehow broke it ( i get a mysterious eggog when loading feed , and not presently equipped to debug ) | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | but do finish first your post there, this can wait. | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: ha! | [18:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aok, will think about how to clarify the mud. | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | don't worry, I'll ask you questions until it's clear. | [18:29] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i'ma have to cut the thing open to fix, and 0\% chance of it happening today, been awake for 14+h already | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: get some sleep better; I'm reading. | [18:30] |
| asciilifeform: | will be doing a bit moar numerics before may sleep , so if diana_coman has q's in next coupla hrs , will try to answer. | [18:31] |
| asciilifeform: | has also crate of 'dulaps' to unpack & test, but unlikely to today | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I'm at the end of a long and weird day so I might need another pass tomorrow (and that won't happen until evening anyway) so don't count on immediate feedback, sorry. | [18:32] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: makes sense, got it | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | "This document is doomed to be revised again. And probably yet again." – bwahahah; asciilifeform , I'll end up cribbing this for a set of quotes on younghands.club , lol. | [19:09] |
| whaack: | fff looks like next week i may have to abandon the ship on the digitalocean | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw what does the f in there stand for? | [19:14] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: back at kb, catching up. F is for Frederick. | [19:15] |
| diana_coman: | thanks. | [19:21] |
| jfw: | You have an Irena there too, right? | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | Irina, yes | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | it's the Romanian/Russian form; the English equivalent would be Irene | [19:23] |
| jfw: | ah. Is Coman a Romanian name? Don't believe I've seen it often | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | well, Romanian surnames are anyway haphazard because they are rather recent; fwiw it's not the usual form (Popescu as in Mircea Popescu is one of the most common + more usual ending escu, yes) | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | traditionally nobody cared about surnames, it would always be literally, you are X of Y's (aka your father's ) and the usual question in villages goes exactly like that: whose are you? | [19:27] |
| jfw: | so much like the origin of '-son' I gather | [19:28] |
| jfw: | Anyway, these posts aren't gonna post themselves so I'd better hold my further curiosity for now. | [19:29] |
| diana_coman: | certainly; and for that matter similar reason as to Russian patronymics, obviously. | [19:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, work well then. | [19:30] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo_: what's going on with your connection that it's so flimsy lately? | [10:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have a few questions about V. (1) Has the idea of a minimal piece of software for a computer been entertained, where it has just enough to use V to install the rest of its operating system? (2) Ostensibly one could use V to put together the source for an OS and then build out an image and install it on another machine. But should a computer have V installed on ~itself~ when someone uses it to build the source? I buil | [11:03] |
| whaack: | t mpwp by using the V on my local machine and scp'ing the result to my external box. But I'm not sure whether I should have had V on the external machine and built out the source remotely. (3) Afaik right now trb leaves libraries such as openssl to be defined by the machine running trb, in the same way V does with gpg. A future goal is to have the definitions of all the symbols inside of trb be defined within a vpatch in its vtree, | [11:03] |
| whaack: | correct? | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: are you at all familiar with cuntoo and its genesis.vpatch? | [11:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I thought there was a vpatch for cuntoo and checked btcbase.org/patches and couldn't find it and then didn't explore further | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: trinque took a very elegant approach there, namely he produced a cuntoo bootstrapper that can effectively run entirely offline (if one gets all tarballs in place too) and produces as a result the genesis.vpatch *that matches trinque's sig*; ie he provides only the sig as a way for you to verify that what the script produced on your machine is *the same thing* as he produced. | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw btw are you familiar with Cuntoo at all and esp ^ ? | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Another slightly related item I was looking for that I couldn't find was an article on trilema about how minigame has to maintain an OS | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re vpatches in general yes, ideally *all* software that runs on my machine would be V-pressed entirely and I could then perhaps sleep better. | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | but there's still quite a way to go to get there for sure. | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, the minigame & OS was triggered by the fact that eulora's client compilation process was in the end still broken by the march of shitgnomes "updating/obsoleting" whatevers; as a response to this, the first attempt was to make a full mirror of some linux distros; I've burnt some time on this but the end result was that's it's effectively insane (huge size that just can't be justified in any possible way, let alone digested … | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | … even in principle) | [11:18] |
| whaack: | haha okay | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | so that was dropped, not sure that there is a trilema article specifically on it; it might be mentioned (I'd expect) in one of the s.mg reports but not in full gory detail (and sadly at the time I didn't dissect it on my blog either) | [11:20] |
| whaack: | right it is most likely in the s.mg reports because i skimmed through the s.mg category and did not find any obvious title for it | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you still find "only cryptography" interesting? | [11:23] |
| whaack: | well as you stated, having control of your computer is a necessary step to doing cryptography, and i find that necessary step very interesting as well | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, trilema titles are quite a bit like… sirens, lol. | [11:25] |
| whaack: | unrelated, the firefox on the tolietbox i'm using has this new feature where they list articles 'you may be interested in' from a company called | [11:30] |
| whaack: | [11:30] | |
| whaack: | some titles: "How To Talk To Kids About Climate Change", "How steak became manly and salads became feminine", "Online, no one knows your poor" | [11:31] |
| shinohai: | whaack: You can turn off that nonsense in (or just user startup page, but pretty simple to disable) | [11:31] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007506 << this looks to be what you're looking for >> http://trilema.com/2016/ideological-history-of-the-republic/ | [11:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 11:11:49 whaack: diana_coman: Another slightly related item I was looking for that I couldn't find was an article on trilema about how minigame has to maintain an OS | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lolz! but you shouldn't tolerate that shit being thrown at you *in your own browser* toilet or not; public toilet means you ban specifically stuff (rather than ban all + admit only selected on human box), certainly not that you tolerate any- and every-thing | [11:34] |
| whaack: | dorion: that was it, ty! | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | ah, ha; well done dorion ! | [11:35] |
| dorion: | de nada; ftr I searched site:trilema.com frozen OS | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | sometimes it's all about getting the right terms to search for, indeed. | [11:37] |
| whaack: | shinohai: ty btw | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | funnily enough the very same search was done only recently in #t yielding same result and… still didn't directly pop into memory, such a shame. | [11:40] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-09-03 mircea_popescu: incidentally re http://trilema.com/2019/so-i-was-thinking/#comment-131257 diana_coman , where's the article detailing the time we attempted to amber linux over it breaking eulora compile process ? is there one even ? | [11:40] |
| dorion: | "It's easy to play any musical instrument: all you have to do is touch the right key at the right time and the instrument will play itself." – J.S. Bach. | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eh, and carving davids out of surrounding marble and so on, sure | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | wb trinque | [12:01] |
| trinque: | ty! need to fix my autojoin list. | [12:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I don't have a bouncer set up yet, and The national telecom administration forces consumer connection to change ip at least once a day. Sometimes twice. I'll try to get a bouncer assembled soon | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that ip-flickering does rather force one to get a bouncer, huh; weird stuff. | [15:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Well they take their rituals seriously here. No fixed IP on consumer service means no fixed IP and they'll make it clear with the daily cycling. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | lol! | [15:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | When the hot basement closet appeared to work as a data center, this could be easily mitigated. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | certainly; no worries. | [15:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | The actual change takes less than a second. A whole bunch of shit protocols are completely without visible interuption. Just the good stuff gets a bit inconvenient | [15:31] |
| trinque: | heh, do they also turn off city power when it's sleepytime? | [16:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | trinque: Nah, I've seen power maybe blink three times aside from the time Argentina fucked up the regional grid. The power company however offers a number of plans which incentivize certain consumption patterns | [16:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | Far better stability in the local power grid than I have ever seen in a period of similar length living in the middle west | [16:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | The quality of the power grid outside of the outer poverty barrios where folks just tap into lines as they want to, this is an asset to Uruguay. | [16:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | In the US maybe Texas's grid alone can rival Uruguay's. | [16:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | unfamiliar with the Texas grid beyond knowing its its own thing | [16:07] |
| trinque: | summer sometimes causes problems when it's e.g. ~100-110F | [16:16] |
| trinque: | by and large works fine; we've got a few nuclear reactors too | [16:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | This country could use one. They've even had plans but… stalled indefinitely | [16:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | South America though is hydro country | [16:19] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007505 – sadly I have not studied cuntoo as such. I'm familiar with the reproducibility concept; was seen earlier in the 'rotor' TRB build, which is a mini-Linux-distro of its own right, 'buildroot' | [16:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 11:11:15 diana_coman: jfw btw are you familiar with Cuntoo at all and esp ^ ? | [16:26] |
| jfw: | Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study. | [16:27] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: otherwise, I have some sins to confess… I didn't get to where I wanted with the writing yesterday; asking myself why, I found I hadn't spent much dedicated time on it, but was unsure where the rest of the time had gone. Reflecting further, I had spent time on a bunch of things which indeed had to be done, but at least some of which didn't have to be done *right then*, and I hadn't | [16:34] |
| jfw: | planned any sort of limit on these as you illustrated with your blog theming discussion. I'm sure I'm not alone in having an ~inexhaustible list of these, and suppose there was an aspect of avoidance in it. Also I could have reported this last night, but didn't, which seems to contradict my commitment to more communication and left me with however much more to dig out of this morning. | [16:34] |
| jfw: | (blog theming discussion) | [16:37] |
| jfw: | Another thing that happened while 'thinking about the writing', yesterday as well as Wednesday, was various subtrees of my larger problem coming into focus. And I've been writing them down, so I guess I shouldn't think of that as a waste; not sure where the line is on mulling vs. spinning really | [16:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 00:31:29 jfw: But the principle failure, I think, beyond any particular bad decision, was in not reaching out to people who could have helped make better decisions. | [16:55] |
| jfw: | For example, I'd been undervaluing my own time when it came to otherwise interesting things (also known as the "ooh, shiny!" problem); also, by not having been writing all along, there's a lot of missing context in the blog setup story – I did X because I had Y, because I'd earlier chosen to Z and so on until the article no longer fits in head | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007554 – emphasis on *future*, all right? don't "oh, shiny" on it now. | [17:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 16:27:04 jfw: Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you *plan* any time specifically for the writing ? | [17:12] |
| jfw: | What would that mean exactly – number of hours, specific start/end times? I guess I didn't really | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: at least some time in your schedule set aside for this task | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | it is true that *some* thinking can and will go on in the background so it doesn't need nor benefit from separate time but the writing – esp. when you lack experience and positively avoid it – still takes time of its own. | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what did you go about it anyway? | [17:19] |
| jfw: | ack re above, I think i'll need to schedule it in more detail. "what did you go about it anyway" – not parsing there? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007556 – myeah, this was the time to say something. | [17:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 16:34:49 jfw: planned any sort of limit on these as you illustrated with your blog theming discussion. I'm sure I'm not alone in having an ~inexhaustible list of these, and suppose there was an aspect of avoidance in it. Also I could have reported this last night, but didn't, which seems to contradict my commitment to more communication and left me with however much more to dig out of this morning. | [17:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-25 15:43:59 diana_coman: jfw: how's your writing going? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so you found out on Tuesday evening you have to write this post by Sunday evening; ok, what happened next (relevant to this, obviously)? | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007568 – my typo there: what did you do about it (alternatively: how did you go about it); but see ^ , it's the same question. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 17:20:09 jfw: ack re above, I think i'll need to schedule it in more detail. "what did you go about it anyway" – not parsing there? | [17:23] |
| jfw: | Wednesday I did varous smaller tasks, but neglected to track time or come up with a schedule. Wrote the thoughts that came up about the writing. Next free time was Thursday night, where I worked on outlining | [17:24] |
| jfw: | So, I guess I didn't really have anything solid to go on when I told you I thought the writing was going alright :( | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007558 – at least the thinking + focus + writing down is certainly not bad, no; re mulling vs spinning ahem, it depends on what exactly you do there, we'll revisit. | [17:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 16:55:56 jfw: Another thing that happened while 'thinking about the writing', yesterday as well as Wednesday, was various subtrees of my larger problem coming into focus. And I've been writing them down, so I guess I shouldn't think of that as a waste; not sure where the line is on mulling vs. spinning really | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: before that, it would also seem you didn't have anything solid to go on when you said you will do it by Sunday. | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what do you have now, an outline or what? | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: say something. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | A partial outline, and extracts of earlier notes/chats documenting what I did | [17:31] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-26#1007554 << btw, new mirror for the pre-cuntoo item : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/dulap-r2.tar.gz . ( i have a new bootable version also, that abolishes need for the ancient plain gentoo usb stick, but needs moar test ) | [17:33] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 19:22:45 jfw: Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why so slow in answering anyway, it's not like I asked you complicated questions, is it? | [17:34] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007579 – I can't deny; I did not have an estimate of how many hours the different parts would take, or much to go on to come up with one | [17:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 17:28:39 diana_coman: jfw: before that, it would also seem you didn't have anything solid to go on when you said you will do it by Sunday. | [17:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I was checking on what I had, which… perhaps I didn't need to | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, start valuing your time more, there's not even a single second of it that you'll ever get back | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, really? you didn't know all of a sudden what you had? | [17:36] |
| jfw: | I… guess I didn't like it, had to see directly | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: mk; you finish that outline and publish it (or whatever sad-unfinished-outline you have by Sunday evening) + the relevant notes or whatever else you got sidetracked into; if you get sidetracked even more, you publish still tomorrow that too, whatever it is, all in one post. | [17:38] |
| jfw: | Yes Master. | [17:39] |
| jfw: | My blog or younghands for that? | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that goes on your blog | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: on younghands you'll still have to do the plan for next week but really do set aside in your own schedule time for each of the things (and even for your own otherwise, wtf, time is not some infinite resource); so far I'll still consider it's not absolutely necessary for you to publish that too but if you insist, it will become. | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you read the trouble with sliding plans? | [17:43] |
| jfw: | Yes but not recently. | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | apparently you're due a re-read of it. | [17:44] |
| jfw: | I expect so. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: have you always worked like this time-irrespective or is this just for writing/not-sexy work? | [17:49] |
| jfw: | Not sure if 'always' – e.g. in school, a rigorous planned schedule was essential – but I would say lately the discipline has been lacking. | [17:53] |
| jfw: | Last couple months dorion and I have been trying to improve on that, writing weekly plans, which has been helpful but I at least am not where I need to be yet, clearly. | [17:53] |
| jfw: | (Have I missed something in the question? Got a feeling I might be.) | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: basically school was last time when you really had too little time to indulge in wasting it. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you clearly answered the time-irrespective part, kind of side-stepped on the writing/not-sexy work. | [17:55] |
| jfw: | On the IT job time was also scarce for sure – there was an issue tracker, regular check-in with team members and management that provided structure. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | were you always on time (and without last minute mad rush) there? | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | now I hope you don't go to… check, lol. | [17:58] |
| jfw: | I recall the work being pretty independent – as long as things kept getting done, they'd stay happy; there weren't many specific deadlines. | [17:58] |
| jfw: | Mad rushes would happen in response to crises like provider outages. | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you do understand though that it's your time first and foremost at stake here, yes? | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | crises are a different thing, not relevant here. | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | because you know, I can let you slide and take a whole month on one post; at that rate possibly we'll get to have a look at your software sometime before I die of old age or something. | [18:00] |
| jfw: | My understanding was that failing deadlines makes one hard for other people to work with; perhaps I haven't fully connected how it affects my own time | [18:01] |
| jfw: | certainly that image helps. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that is one side of it for sure and yes, it's the one mainly covered in http://ossasepia.com/2018/02/06/its-only-words-and-assumptions-and-priorities-and-ouch/ | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | but there is also the waste of your own time for sure. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | and now I realise you might all think I'm anyway 90 or something, lolz. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right; clear and fine for this Sunday? | [18:06] |
| jfw: | yes, I will publish review/plan and however far I get on the article. | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: review != plan so hm, what are you publishing there? | [18:08] |
| jfw: | the review of week and plan of next week on young hands is what I meant there | [18:08] |
| jfw: | did I hallucinate the 'review' part of that? lol | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right; and don't spin/mull internally only, better come and speak up in here, yes? | [18:10] |
| jfw: | Will do. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: no, it exists, just that it's usually a separate post and so more like review & plan; your / there raised an eyebrow. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | good then. | [18:11] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-10-21#1007023 << Just realized I missed this question. Well, in our PM convo at the end of September I decided to pause my current study in diana_coman's school so as to gain an understanding of what, specifically, I would wish to gain from it. In my head I had lumped the penance posts under this set of study, though perhaps this was a misclassification | [18:35] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 13:57:58 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002548 – lobbes, what ever happened to/with this? | [18:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 15:05:59 lobbes: diana_coman: interesting. I will do this, ty | [18:35] |
| lobbes: | In any case, I do think I will make those posts once I finish and deploy mp's bot. I think this also has the benefit of allowing more time to pass for reflection | [18:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was just invited to go to Nicaragua next week from Thursday-Monday for a friend's birthday. (The same friend I was considering living with before) It looks like a++ fun, but it is quite a few days to give up. I am asking both for permission to go and guidance as to whether or not I should go. | [18:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Have you been to Nicaragua before? | [18:53] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes I have, in the southern part. This was a few months after they had a little shoot out in the capital that made tourists scared to go there | [18:54] |
| whaack: | have you been there / other parts of latam? | [18:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | I haven't. I went straight from the Middle West to living in Uruguay | [18:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | When the search for a datacenter began my initial suspicions were the search would land me somewhere in asia | [19:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe the Balkans | [19:03] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: sry, power died. I was surprised when you wound up in Uruguay as well. I have only been in San Juan del Sur in Nicaragua, it is nothing to write home about. Some of the beaches are filled with trash, it's disgusting. But the surf is excellent since there is a constant offshore wind from the lake. | [19:57] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Oct-2019#1007554 << remember that it's an artifact, not a textbook. it's liable to teach you the wrong thing, possibly better off not touching it for now. | [23:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-26 16:27:04 jfw: Seeing the cuntoo bootstrap tarball is back from the pizmess, I'll download for future study. | [23:36] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Oct 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am lost on the meaning of http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/#selection-79.1-83.14 I do not understand what MP means when he links to his line http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-11#1322055 because I know nothing about Galois. Why is it a good thing that identity is inaccessible to the subject? | [12:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; do you know what the rest of refs in the logs right before that cited line are? | [12:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not sure how far I need to scroll up, but I am trying to find a good starting point now. My first response is it would be a shame if I didn't know where the Sirens reference in the Kafka quote originated from lol. | [12:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: don't get lost in the logs now, lol | [13:06] |
| whaack: | "hm i guess i gotta start from 2013 to make sure i have all the context!" | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and then some more! but yes, kind of why "don't get lost " in there | [13:08] |
| whaack: | starts from the beginning of the day as per btcbase.org's clock | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | now I'm curious though: jfw do you know about Galois? | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: here's a more direct discussion of identity (but again: do not get lost in the context of *that*): http://trilema.com/2014/its-not-the-sauce-its-the-poultry-and-other-metamathematical-considerations/#footnote_0_52317 | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the log-lines references in fact earlier discussion at about http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-10#1321513 | [13:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: From my understanding the footnote contradicts principle 0x01. MP seems to imply that in the (rare) case where one has sovereignty, one can in fact construct their own identity. "Any attempt at a subjective construction of identity outside of outright control of the environment – which necessarily means sovereignity, in its invariant form from Antiquity to present times – is not much unlike an attempt to write software | [13:21] |
| whaack: | out of the contents of pointers" | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | funnily enough for the exact thing it's not even about Galois himself really. | [13:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, how exactly do you imagine one fully ever controls the full environment? | [13:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol okay i see, control over your own identity is a sliding scale that can't hit 100\%, and many overestimate their control | [13:31] |
| whaack: | is putting to rest trying to figure out how mp's linked line is evidence that it is beneficial to not be able to recognize one's own idea of himself. | [14:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the previous discussion there holds the key to that but yes, it's a side road atm and a bit to travel down it too so file it under "to revisit" and come back to it another time. | [15:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok. I am going to start writing my post on my understanding of what V is and why it is important. Perhaps I can still deepen my understanding, but afaik that can go on forever. I am not confident I fully comprehend MP's point about people running different linuxen vs. a unified linux. My understanding is that he is saying that it is impossible for two different systems to have the same context, so any process running o | [15:23] |
| whaack: | n one machine cannot be the same process that is running on a different machine, even if they have the same source. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: knowing when you have understood *enough* to move further is part of practice too, yes; indeed, there is no limit to "deeper understanding" and precisely because of that + finite resource time, you *have to* practice figuring this out too (+ the other part of this: making the *most* of what you know at any given time) | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so I gather your original outlines on which you based the estimate "5 articles by Sunday" was that list there? | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | the list | [15:30] |
| dorion: | diana_coman "there", as in, had I written it ? | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: is there more to those fabled outlines than the list of topics you published in this last post? | [15:33] |
| dorion: | not that I can immediately produce, I hand wrote them and not very well. as I got into the 2nd post, I realized there was more I wanted to say. | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: can you type them in and publish them in a single post by Sunday ? | [15:38] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that I can do. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: then do that and we talk on Tuesday evening. | [15:39] |
| dorion: | diana_coman: thank you. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | yw | [15:40] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'd heard of Galois, most recently through cryptography, but don't know much about him. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha; you'll probably end up hearing more of him anyway but yes, I got curious mainly because of survey of algebra since I can't quite see what sort of survey of algebra would leave him out. | [15:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 16:38:16 jfw: 'Survey of Modern Algebra' I did OK at, upon putting in the effort. That was things like group theory and possibly the first "you actually gotta prove things now, not just replay formula" | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's your writing going? | [15:43] |
| dorion: | diana_coman fwiw, towards the end of the taking lumps, it occured to me that writting the article itself may be a further continuation of the original coyness, but went ahead with publishing. was it better for you that I wrote it there rather than coming to the channel first ? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes, it was better as I could see what you had and where you were; and take heart, you do at least make it quite hard for people to *not* want to work with you. | [15:45] |
| dorion: | heart taken, sincerely, thank you. | [15:46] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not bad I think, got much of an outline down from memory, need to compare against notes then draft. I'm hoping to finish that by tonight and have tomorrow to review. | [15:47] |
| dorion: | (not that my other comments haven't been sincerely) | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right then | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yw; and don't worry, I got what you meant there. | [15:49] |
| dorion: | :) | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: update re my article ( 2nd draft of machine park prospectus ) : still set for 27 oct, may finish earlier. | [15:51] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: shall I assume I'm also on the weekly review & planning post cycle now? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes. | [15:51] |
| jfw: | alrighty, and I gather the format is up to me but I'll review others for inspiration. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, the format is entirely up to you; where are you with that time-consuming curriculum-dev otherwise? | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I'll read it whenever it's finished. | [15:58] |
| asciilifeform: | ty diana_coman . | [15:59] |
| jfw: | 13 sessions down out of 25 now planned – developing it as we go. Estimated completion end of November. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right; are you fine re plan for next week? | [16:01] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hmm, well I'd like to at least sustain the blogging pace but maybe push for two articles next week | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, finish this one, review how it went & what time it ate, plan the next and see if 2nd fits; what sort of time do you have available this coming week anyway? (ie for work that I get to see) | [16:06] |
| jfw: | 20-25 hours I think | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: works; hopefully you *will* just ask in here if/when stuck and without me prodding why-you-so-silent, yes/ | [16:11] |
| jfw: | reminder noted! | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | is seriously considering making 15 minutes daily chat part of jfw's weekly plan otherwise | [16:12] |
| jfw: | I will if you ask it; otherwise I'll try to make the formality unnecessary. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: good then; so far it's not necessary and I hope it stays this way. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [16:24] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Oct 2019
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007377 – heh, how fitting. | [03:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 19:38:15 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007357 << congrats jfw. I've not read through the backlog, but will tonight after the Junto. (jfw and I've been organizing a 'learning group' which meets a couple times a month, in the Benjamin Franklin spirit, for nearly 2 years now.) | [03:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw dorion you might want to use feedbot to follow blogs (posts and/or comments), just pm it eg /msg feedbot !1 help | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=wb-U | [10:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I also rated you with deedbot, you should be able to see it via pm eg /msg deedbot !!reputation jfw ; the website (wot.deedbot.org) takes some time to update iirc; atm my rating might still enable you to !!up yourself in #trilema but I suggest abstaining from it for now. | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: let me know if there's any weird/problem with the account. | [10:26] |
| asciilifeform: | guten tag diana_coman . you may have noticed, i put back the bot . it was synced with the new autosyncer that was to get deployed right before piz burned down. i'ma put it as vpatch, but prolly wont get chance this wk, hands full w/ 2nd draft of ispism. | [10:53] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: morning; and no worries re bot & vpatch; also, wb snsabot ! | [11:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't think I have enough background in formal logic to digest http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/ . MP says the two listed principles are absolutely true, universally valid, and fundamentally correct. He goes on to define those three statements. However I do not think I fully understand them, because for example I can not think of a statement that is absolutely true while also not universally valid. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, sounds like you didn't quite follow the explanations in the footnotes there; he's not opposing "absolutely true" to "universally valid" because those are not opposable, they are just different facets ie absolutely (true) as opposed to conventionally (true) + universally (valid) as opposed to domain-specific (valid) | [16:03] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: ty, and I oughta get some ratings out too. After blog post, I'm thinking. And login works. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | and feedbot will be a great help. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | re self voicing, yes I think "seen but not heard" unless requested is the prudent approach for now. | [16:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I see. I should have mentioned that I also did not know whether it was possible to oppose them, but your statement clears that up. To be sure I understand, can you confirm the following is true: X is absolutely true iff x is universally valid. | [16:09] |
| whaack: | (the first X in the statement should be lowercase) | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, follow the definitions for each and see; the best method is to work through the proof really. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | you have in the footnotes everything you need | [16:12] |
| whaack: | ok | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds all good. | [16:12] |
| whaack: | from my understanding the only reason those without a rating of 9 from mp can self voice in #t is because the new policy has not been implemented on deedbot | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, the deadline for the new policy is by convention April but in principle any time before that. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, your question is not about formal logic but still about philosophical categories mainly; not that it can hurt reading more on formal logic too if that's problematic for you but just so you know that it won't likely solve *this* problem. | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack. After I try to prove that the statement I said is true/false I will try to explain in my own words why the listed principles are absolutely true, universally valid, and fundamentally correct | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: possibly start with in your own words what absolutely true, universally valid and fundamentally correct *mean* | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | the why… oh my. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok i will do the above and then contemplate the problem with saying that i will try to "explain in my own words _why_ the listed principles are ab…" lol | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I do like your new-found thoroughness; so I'll cut short your proof-misery: note that your iff statement is yet another thing, namely a double implication ! | [16:39] |
| whaack: | Yes that was intended, I have a hunch that the double implication is true but I am not certain yet | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: based on what, that hunch? | [16:40] |
| whaack: | Based on the fact you said they were not opposable. And I interpreted not opposable to mean it is not possible for one to be false while the other is true. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hmmm, not opposable means that they reflect slightly different aspects | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: absolute there is opposed to conventional and being absolutely true means that you can't meaningfully negate them. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | onth universally valid means that they also *apply* everywhere ie you can't meaningfully reason outside of their influence. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you see the difference there? | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think so. So from those definitions you gave, I would say a statement being universally valid implies that it is absolutely true, but a statement that is absolutely true does not imply that it is universally valid. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | each of "absolutely true" and "universally valid" brings its own bit to the table, hence why MP lists both of them: he is *not* repeating himself there, lolz. | [16:55] |
| whaack: | well then i guess neither imply the other then lol | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well yes; otherwise indeed, no need for both | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: a statement being universally valid means that you'll find it in all domains; onth it doesn't yet say that you can't meaningfully *negate* it | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | so no, it does not imply absolute truth ; and in turn, absolute truth says precisely "you can't negate this meaningfully" BUT it does not imply that you can't find a domain where it just doesn't apply at all. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: shades and whiskers of meaning there it might seem perhaps but they matter. | [17:01] |
| whaack: | Okay I believe I understand and I do not doubt the importance of the details. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re "why"… does MP even say why in there? lolz | [17:05] |
| whaack: | no he doesn't | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so you know, leave it for another day, ok? you have loads to do anwyay. | [17:05] |
| whaack: | ok | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is V-reading at least interesting? | [17:07] |
| whaack: | yes I enjoy it quite a bit | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: good. | [17:08] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007370 << i set some profile pic based on your comment some time ago, which seems to be working on my blog (not mp-wp based). Presume you meant so that my avatar is used when i comment on other mp-wp blogs. So i've copied the same as avatar.png and checked that it is accessible like in your link. | [17:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 19:23:58 diana_coman: jfw: shrysr whaack get yourselves a proper avatar on your blog, will you? mp-wp will use whatever you have as avatar.png on your domain eg mine is http://ossasepia.com/avatar.png | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: yes, meant mp-wp compatible; from what you say, it should work. | [17:51] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Oct 2019
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1007048 << here I am laughing at myself cause I started to type… by whole world/public I meant the stakes are higher to do it correctly… and then realized that's working towards a purpose. (clears throat) If it's worth doing, do it for yourself to see it done well and have it for future reference. Do it on the blog because it lets you do it | [01:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 17:55:51 diana_coman: dorion: you may be overestimating how much "the whole world" actually reads anything, lol; (and at that it's a natural overestimation pretty much ~everyone does at first); other than that, the blog medium is about more than just the public aspect – it *also* allows you to link and therefore to build on your own already-spent effort in a way that paper just can't do. | [01:20] |
| dorion: | better. | [01:20] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1007050 << aok. | [01:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 18:02:34 diana_coman: dorion: as you say you'll finish this series this week, I'd say focus on it then and get it done and we talk afterwards, so next Tuesday since otherwise tomorrow we still pretty much continue from where we left off last time so there isn't a big gain. | [01:22] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo I've read the Private Interest Foundation and Corporation laws, but not many of codes beyond that. Panama has territorial taxation, which means foreign earned income is not taxed and organizations structure themselves accordingly. | [02:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: That's most of the world. What I mean is do they have a https://www.impo.com.uy/bases/codigo-civil/16603-1994 | [02:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or an either shorter or faster reading https://www.impo.com.uy/bases/codigo-penal/9155-1933 | [02:21] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo they do https://vlex.com.pa/vid/codigo-civil-panama-58511355 | [02:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007056 – well done. | [03:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 01:20:43 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1007048 << here I am laughing at myself cause I started to type… by whole world/public I meant the stakes are higher to do it correctly… and then realized that's working towards a purpose. (clears throat) If it's worth doing, do it for yourself to see it done well and have it for future reference. Do it on the blog because it lets you do it | [03:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1007052 – this might be an idea, I'll keep it in mind. | [03:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 22:11:16 BingoBoingo: dorion: If diana_coman thinks it would be a good use of your time, you can try writing tight prose for Qntra. | [03:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re sources and referencing: there is always a primary source aka the original author; if that's what you read, then you reference it directly as you did there ie Bastiat's Broken Window Falacy + link (and note that even in this case referencing includes the edition which in turns indicates the translator if any etc); if however it's *not* that, then it's secondary source and you *have to* indicate which of all possible … | [03:46] |
| diana_coman: | … secondary sources have you read & therefore are you referencing. | [03:46] |
| diana_coman: | all this is important on a rather basic level for intellectual activity, quite similar to food hygiene being important for body activity (and yes, not doing it properly strucks civilised people that notice it with the same sort of disgust essentially) | [03:49] |
| whaack: | billymg: mega-congrats on obtaining the new property | [10:21] |
| billymg: | whaack: thank you, sir | [11:19] |
| billymg: | looking forward to being neighbors | [11:19] |
| billymg: | heads off to salt mines | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: I thought the whole point was to get out of the salt mines; or what, does the new property come with salt mine attached so you feel "like home" ? lolz | [11:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: ty. And its not a dorion specific offer. If you think any of your pages would benefit from being drilled in Qntra style journalism, I will make myself available. After eating through more of the current pressing que, I'll probably blog out a proposal for Bingo's Qntra J-school short course. | [11:46] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007069 << It occurs to me I've had this concept, "My education started when I quit school." This is in part true, because my drive to learn was reactivated for the first time in over a decade in the nuke sense; I started to seek rather than wait to be assigned. | [12:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 03:46:29 diana_coman: dorion: re sources and referencing: there is always a primary source aka the original author; if that's what you read, then you reference it directly as you did there ie Bastiat's Broken Window Falacy + link (and note that even in this case referencing includes the edition which in turns indicates the translator if any etc); if however it's *not* that, then it's secondary source and you *have to* indicate which of all possible … | [12:44] |
| dorion: | However, without the proper structure to write about what I was learning, pretense leads to deskilling which if uncheck inflates the pretense and accelerates the deskilling. So thank you for the sourcing and referencing likbez, diana_coman. | [12:48] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007077 << ftr, it does interest me as qntra's been a boon to my reality processing; but in the short term reckon it's better keep deadline and heed c. jung's, "who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." | [13:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 11:46:37 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty. And its not a dorion specific offer. If you think any of your pages would benefit from being drilled in Qntra style journalism, I will make myself available. After eating through more of the current pressing que, I'll probably blog out a proposal for Bingo's Qntra J-school short course. | [13:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Kinda why I defer to diana_coman rather than yourself in this matter. | [13:16] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo right, understood ty. | [13:23] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm settled in & looking forward to conversation, at your convenience. | [14:43] |
| jfw: | dorion and I grabbed cervezas yesterday, over which he aptly recounted what had just come together for him about the long history of my, shall we say, independent streak. | [14:47] |
| jfw: | I could open with this, unless there's another way you'd prefer to proceed. | [14:47] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007078 << let me proactively correct my error on the referencing/sourcing there. I reckon' drawing the nuke quote from btcbase was caused by searching in #o search box rather than #t, which lead to looking in 'pre-dragon' logs. 'so help me my own intelligence and cursed be my own | [15:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 12:44:58 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007069 << It occurs to me I've had this concept, "My education started when I quit school." This is in part true, because my drive to learn was reactivated for the first time in over a decade in the nuke sense; I started to seek rather than wait to be assigned. | [15:05] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-08-30 asciilifeform: 'motivation from fear is a firecracker, from interest – a nuke' as the americans used to say | [15:05] |
| dorion: | stupidity.' | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: heh, good for you; and yes, there's no bot to cite the line from btcbase logs + it's unclear for how long those will stay up, anyway | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007077 – noted and thank you; that post sounds like a good idea at any rate; and fwiw I honestly had in the back of my mind to send your way any fit person I might meet but at least so far most still have to practice their basic writing more before attempting a qntra at any rate. | [15:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 11:46:37 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: ty. And its not a dorion specific offer. If you think any of your pages would benefit from being drilled in Qntra style journalism, I will make myself available. After eating through more of the current pressing que, I'll probably blog out a proposal for Bingo's Qntra J-school short course. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007086 – that sounds like a very good thing to do; by now I guess you two balance yourself not-bad in many ways so good for you | [15:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 14:47:07 jfw: dorion and I grabbed cervezas yesterday, over which he aptly recounted what had just come together for him about the long history of my, shall we say, independent streak. | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and yes, quite a good way to start, why not; I'm listening. | [15:43] |
| jfw: | Alright. I was born in 1989, an only-child and pretty much a "last chance" as my mother had just turned 41. | [15:45] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: if you have 5min, plox to help asciilifeform resolve 'catch 22'. asciilifeform is drawing prognoses for rack expansions. but presently does not know the magnitude of near-term demand. how many irons and of what type do diana_coman &c co contemplate parking in asciilifeform's usa rack ? ( no commitment implied, but i need to get gauge ) | [15:45] |
| asciilifeform: | ( the other side of this medal, is that i gotta make certain that the capacity for even initial l1 demand, is actually there ) | [15:46] |
| jfw: | My parents were long time members in the Lyndon LaRouche organization / political campaigns / "cult" / "movement" | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I personally would get one dulap for myself; depending on whether there is some concrete plan re expanding l2/bringing occupants/this-sort-of-non-technical-consideration too (please,please Stan!), there are the 2 S.MG servers looking for a house too. | [15:48] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ty for the estimate. i thought, tho, that the smg orchestra is to be spread across planet ? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: as in: mirrored aka multiple servers really; not as in… what exactly do you have in mind there? | [15:49] |
| jfw: | For those unfamiliar, this was a thing that started around the 1960's as a fork of the leftist 'Students for a Democratic Society' – LaRouche believed he had 'fixed the flaws in Marxism' or something like that. The message changed over the years — 'single-issue' it was not — but generally tried to associate with the Democratic party (to the displeasure of said party itself). | [15:49] |
| asciilifeform: | as in, mirrors in multiple continents | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I am still following you, don't worry. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, I am not very familiar with lyndon larouche. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes but mirrors; need one in each place, right? | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | larouche << very colourful american crackpot figure | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | sorta resembles e.g. zhirinovsky | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | the 2 are production + dev; they are not mirrors of one another, no. | [15:50] |
| jfw: | He ran for President at least 4x, once from federal prison. Ran on donations and print publication subscriptions | [15:50] |
| jfw: | One of the perhaps more unusual aspects of their teachings was Classical (European) culture as the ~only culture worth a hill of beans | [15:52] |
| jfw: | (unusual at least in the American landscape of the time) | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | quite unusual, I can imagine. | [15:53] |
| jfw: | The stick that kept supporters in line was the ever-imminent collapse of the global monetary/financial system, sometimes with a side of impending nuclear war. "The system is FINISHED!" | [15:54] |
| jfw: | So young me got quite the sense of proximity to specialness and urgency | [15:55] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i'm not familiar in detail w/ the smg architecture, but was working under impression that mp's plan was to put e.g. 1 in euro rack, 1 possibly in mine, 1 in… tbd, and so forth | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, I can see the urgency; why /in what way specialness? | [15:56] |
| jfw: | While I'd be listening to Bach, Mozart, Beethoven & friends at home, my peers were listening to the Spice Girls or who knows what | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes yes; on TOP of those basic 2. | [15:57] |
| asciilifeform: | aa. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, huh; ok. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | specialness – outsiders were seen as asleep, zombies, the herd | [15:57] |
| asciilifeform: | so , i'ma count smg presently as 2 prospective boxen, 500w total. ty diana_coman . | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes; yw. | [15:57] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: before i let off — didja succeed in getting euro rack just yet ? ( for asciilifeform's professional curiosity re prices/what-one-gets there ) | [15:58] |
| jfw: | So I had on the one hand a warm and stimulating intellectual culture at home and with parents' associates, but on the other a detachment from the larger society | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, at times that is a bonus (depends on society :P ) | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | but I get what you mean, yes. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: no, atm it's on hold until I get somehow to day with the full huge log of stuff to do /that was pushed back because of urgency etc. | [16:00] |
| jfw: | Yet my parents perceived, at least reportedly, to have no options besides sending me off to public school with the rest (in en_US, this means bottom-of-the-barrel 'free' government-sponsored school) | [16:00] |
| asciilifeform: | ok. ty diana_coman , this was all i needed here. ( tho if you have moar crit re prospectus later, dun hesitate to send in. ) i'ma let off nao tho. | [16:00] |
| jfw: | Peers would get insecure at how far ahead I was intellectually, and the system had minimal resources to help me along | [16:02] |
| jfw: | At the same time, I was behind on height / weight / general physical aptitute, for which it likewise had minimal accomodation. One 8yo gotta be the same as every other 8yo! | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, quite usual "school" scenario | [16:03] |
| jfw: | Another obstacle I had was some sort of food hyper-sensitivity. I'd call myself "vegetarian" as an approximation that people seemed more comfortable with, but it was more like, had a short whitelist of things that wouldn't evoke disgust | [16:05] |
| jfw: | Thus fitting in all the less at shared mealtimes. | [16:06] |
| jfw: | (Wasn't till college that I got around to mostly dealing with this by quite deliberate action – gradual desensitization to one thing at a time basically) | [16:07] |
| jfw: | Yet another brushstroke – not watching TV at home ("yeah of course we HAVE a TV, can watch movies – just not cable / channels!" – still incomprehensible to my average peer.) | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | in fairness it's quite easy anyway to be incomprehensible for average age-based-peer but yes, I know of no-tv-shock. | [16:11] |
| jfw: | By the time high school came around, my interests had started gravitating toward science / technology and specifically computers. I wanted to apply to the region's sci/tech magnet school, "TJ", but it was in the next county over and my folks wouldn't hear of it, imagined things would be getting better Real Soon Now. Needless to say they didn't | [16:12] |
| jfw: | To their credit they came around and I got in as a sophomore transfer. It was a mixed blessing because at least I was in a more stimulating environment and could better relate to people, | [16:13] |
| jfw: | but, was stuck getting up before sunrise, commuting by bus 3 hrs/day and had to choose between spending "free" time on computing interests or homework, or sleep | [16:14] |
| jfw: | Made friends on the bus pretty much, but we'd always be tired and a bit stressed in that time. Later was able to get involved in theater tech, which was fun and at least somewhat sociable. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what is "theater tech"? | [16:18] |
| jfw: | Then down to Charlottesville for college, where I'd finally get a bit more relational stability | [16:18] |
| jfw: | Set construction and stage crew is what I did, also includes lights/sound operation | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | aha, ok. | [16:19] |
| jfw: | I continued the theater interest, doing tech for "Shakespeare on the Lawn", also sampling other clubs like "Virginia Atheists & Agnostics", which while largely a left-leaning crowd, was where I first encountered the notion that "hey, maybe you shouldn't look to the government to solve all problems, go read Hayek" | [16:22] |
| jfw: | Also took up my first 'sport', with a ski team that would carpool out to the mountains 2x/wk during the season. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | not like the government hadn't tried by then to show you the sort of "solve" they offer, lolz. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | and aww @ ski; /me misses the Alps. | [16:24] |
| jfw: | quite. Oh, I missed the first bursting of the happy bubble… was sometime in early teenage years that I read some outside criticism of the LaRouchies – which came across as mainly mud-slinging sour grapes, but got me thinking that my intellectual diet had been a bit unbalanced and I needed to expand the horizon. | [16:25] |
| jfw: | Being in the Engineering school I didn't get much exposure to whatever nonsense they were surely teaching in what passed for 'liberal arts'. In economics, I was first enthralled by Milton Friedman, and later Peter Schiff (yes) | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | I see. | [16:30] |
| jfw: | But perhaps as the ready-made career path was on a good track — I was doing summer internships with a Northern VA IT consulting firm I'd go full time with after graduation — I didn't engage to the same degree as dorion | [16:30] |
| jfw: | Speaking of graduation, I almost didn't: while I did great in the CS courses, I didn't invest the effort that in hindsight would have been necessary in the side requirements, particularly math and "Science, Technology and Society" aka some kind of philosophy for engineers, and writing was a particularly sore spot | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: o.O how is that great in CS without…maths?? | [16:34] |
| jfw: | Tthe math part there is one regret, because I've always liked it. Well, things like differential equations which I can't say I've yet had a need for | [16:35] |
| jfw: | (I'm sure in something like shrysr's fluid dynamics, one would need) | [16:35] |
| jfw: | 'Survey of Modern Algebra' I did OK at, upon putting in the effort. That was things like group theory and possibly the first "you actually gotta prove things now, not just replay formula" | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw writing is certainly pre-uni skill in any sane place. | [16:38] |
| jfw: | funny thing there is I chose UVA over Va. Tech because, of the places I was accepted and could afford, it's the one that had more rigorous admissions including essay | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so ok at algebra; barely literate at analysis, is that it? | [16:40] |
| jfw: | Not sure what "analysis" covers so I guess that'd be a "yes"… | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | lol, ok. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | mathematical analysis, it's a branch; but go ahead. | [16:41] |
| jfw: | let's see, so I go off to work in IT, system administration basically, which was something I had become skilled enough at along the way, but not really my driving interest or what I'd studied | [16:43] |
| jfw: | But I had a high priority on building up savings, to have more leeway to make decisions, so I stuck at it for ~1.5yr. | [16:44] |
| jfw: | Meanwhile continued to hear how doomed USA was, from a different angle than in childhood; and yes, also encountered Stefan Molyneux. I was taken with his approach of focusing on your own problems before talking about the outside world and risking projecting. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was this work still close to your parents' home/were you still in the same environment out of office hours? | [16:48] |
| jfw: | ~25 minute drive; I got my own place across from the office after the first 6 months. | [16:49] |
| jfw: | I definitely didn't like living with parents for more than couple weeks at a time. (net cutting up a bit right now…) | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so at the time your plan was to save some money and then ..? | [16:51] |
| jfw: | I can't say I knew up front. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right; sysadmin; and then? | [16:54] |
| jfw: | In 2013, the Snowden news happened, and the impacts of Obamacare had trickled down to the paychecks, to the tune of something like 60\% premium hikes | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha; right. | [16:54] |
| jfw: | I decided it was time to get out. Willing to lose the job if I had to, but they kept me on board for part-time work | [16:54] |
| jfw: | Had also broken up with a girl earlier in the year, and didn't have the strongest relationships otherwise locally, so the decision was easy enough in that regard | [16:56] |
| jfw: | Came down to Panama, with a refundable onward ticket to Chile in the event that didn't work out. No contacts there and barely any Spanish, so I worked through the beginner stuff as quick as I could. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why/how come Panama of all places? | [16:58] |
| jfw: | I'd been reading & listening to a fellow going by "Simon Black" who had sung its praises — though tempered with reservations. There was the territorial tax thing where in theory my income could be siphoned by neither US nor Panama, and one could get permanent residency for <k | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: ^ :P | [17:01] |
| jfw: | In practice, there's still "self-employment tax" i.e. Social Security to deal with; it's supposedly possible by adding a third jurisdiction and the ensuing paperwork & costs. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ok; landed in Panama without much of a concrete plan otherwise I gather; gobbled up Spanish and basic stuff as quickly as possible; what came you way then? | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | your* | [17:03] |
| jfw: | So I stuck around to get the residency process done, at which point (2014) I'd got a year's lease, met dorion, and through him the then-Coinapult crowd | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: were you just living out of your savings at that point or what? | [17:05] |
| jfw: | But not being in much need of income or them seemingly in much need of me, I stuck to my own thing | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what was your own thing? | [17:05] |
| jfw: | Savings carried a while, then I'd top up by remote work | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | where/what sort of remote work? | [17:06] |
| jfw: | The same company as before, doing the portion of their server upkeep as could be done remotely | [17:06] |
| jfw: | well, more than server upkeep – | [17:06] |
| jfw: | they were doing an ERP deployment which brought up all sorts of integration problems with existing systems, so I did some glue coding for example | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | at least very useful sysadmin/work if they wanted you even remote. | [17:08] |
| jfw: | Also got to do some travel for a consulting gig with a client of theirs. | [17:08] |
| jfw: | Yeah I'd established my value pretty clearly to them at least. | [17:08] |
| jfw: | My own thing: | [17:09] |
| jfw: | Despite things going fairly well at the office, I wasn't seeing it going in the direction I wanted, and the pay seemed to have reached a ceiling | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well uhm, to the extent it was just remote work, I don't quite see how/why was it your own thing; it was…their thing. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | but anyway, ok; so 2014, met coinapult via dorion but not sucked into it; and then? | [17:12] |
| jfw: | I wanted to re-dedicate myself to the programming craft, so did various exercises on my own. (For their thing I had gone part-time.) | [17:12] |
| jfw: | (here, collecting thoughts.) | [17:13] |
| jfw: | I was making some effort to be informed about Bitcoin, because it certainly seemed pretty significant and the market concurred, though I hadn't identified useful channels for doing this. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | what market is that? | [17:16] |
| jfw: | e.g. BTCUSD exchanges | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you buy btc in 2014 or how come you got to it anyway? | [17:17] |
| jfw: | I had bought a small amount in late 2012, and added a bit more through 2013 | [17:18] |
| jfw: | Was succumbing partially to the temptation of selling to top up income in 2014-15 as I recall. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ok, give me the main milestones from 2014 on and how you ended up …uhm, teaching people or is that training or what? | [17:20] |
| jfw: | alright. The Coinapult hack was… 2014 or whenever it was. Dorion was destabilized as he mentioned, we started hanging out more | [17:22] |
| jfw: | I'd go meet with Ira (ex-CTO) from time to time, he still seemed an interesting character at least | [17:23] |
| jfw: | In early 2016, it turned out the new, much-downsized Coinapult had been running with ~no IT help for about a year. I took them on as a part-time gig; within 2 months I'd seen this was a mistake and got out. | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | heh, good for you. | [17:25] |
| jfw: | Or possibly was fired, rumor would have it. They never told me as such! | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [17:26] |
| jfw: | At this point, by dorion's urging I had put on my thick skin and started following #b-a / trilema; the BitBet drama was happening at the time which was pretty perplexing from the outside. | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | I guess ~everything is pretty perplexing from the outside. | [17:27] |
| jfw: | In the sense that, I could buy the argument of whoever happened to be speaking | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaa | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | that means -> have no idea. | [17:28] |
| jfw: | yup | [17:28] |
| jfw: | heh, dorion pointed out it could be good to mention my first buy-in price: 3 and 37 cents from a limit order on… campbx I think it was. | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yo, mention here if you have mentions, don't prod him behind the scenes! lolz | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so now you get to answer: why would that be good to mention? | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: followed the bitbet drama; then? | [17:31] |
| jfw: | ah correction, he said 'fun' to mention, and was earlier in thread. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | Ira was on a 'decentralizing' mission | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: awww, saving his skin there. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | He was trying to make a kind of programming co-op or 'guild' he called it, where one could bid for tasks, receive rep / btc, recorded in Git | [17:32] |
| jfw: | Also at this time dorion & his contact were toying with the brokerage idea, which was much more interesting to me, but I did some tool development tasks for Ira for cash | [17:34] |
| jfw: | Through that I soon found that the support he had shown me in my struggles with new-Coinapult soon turned to friction and he didn't have much regard for my input, so I got out of that too. | [17:35] |
| dorion: | diana_coman word. jfw cause btc is about money and selling usd at 3.37 to the btc is leet. | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: well, money and timing, lol. | [17:36] |
| jfw: | Mid to late 2016 we commit to our own business. I think he and I saw it as a chance to do everything 'properly'; my thinking now is we hadn't adequately processed the good and the bad of Coinapult and pretty much took a "do the exact opposite" approach | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ftr that idea sounds about as inept as what I've heard from reading uni students only quite recently. | [17:38] |
| jfw: | The third partner in question was a fiat equities broker who told us he had lots of interested clients and seemed like he could get bank accounts | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: does jfw's eval above sound right to you too? | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was this dorion's idea+plan & he drafted you in for the tech or what was your role in it? | [17:40] |
| jfw: | 'that idea' refers to the 'guild' thing ? | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes; ira's idea. | [17:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman let me properly read (was also drafting article leaving jfw the mic, which is why I wasn't talking in chan). | [17:41] |
| jfw: | The idea started with he and the other guy, then I got on board for tech, yes. | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: as to your business idea 1. it's not yet fully clear what it was 2. at least you had the sense to draft in someone with some finance experience (or so it seems) | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: serves you right for earlier jfw-prodding :P | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: since you had followed even the bitbet story at the time, hadn't you stumbled upon hanbot's posts? | [17:44] |
| jfw: | The idea was: 1. get corporation and bank accounts; 2. BTC exchange accounts from which to fill orders when the local book didn't supply, operating by API as securely as we could manage; 3. provide GPG interface for client order submission. We understood this would mean people trusting us, so made security a high priority | [17:45] |
| jfw: | I had seen some of them, yes. Fully digested, probably not | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: except finance is not at all only tech; sigh. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | but yes I did at least know I and he couldn't do it on our own. | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | for the logs: hanbot's posts aka MPOE-PR on bitcointalk.org , see http://trilema.com/2013/mpoe-pr-almost-two-years-in-the-swamp-an-anthology/ | [17:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman jfw is correct. ira was making open source brokerage, exchange and wallet software. the idea was to post bounties for the tasks, financed by consulting he'd aimed at negotiating with start ups. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so this still involved ira? | [17:48] |
| dorion: | originally yes. | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | I see; ok. | [17:50] |
| jfw: | We thought his existing software would provide a starting point; upon looking closer we found there really wasn't much there and what there was, was a mess | [17:51] |
| dorion: | right, since ira was planning to publish everything, the idea was to evaluate what he published over time and see that we could use for our purposes. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahahaha, doesn't that sound familiar. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right; what is the current biz ? | [17:53] |
| dorion: | the main part that sunk coinapult was the misallocation to support the masses, our plan was to appeal only to high value clients. | [17:54] |
| jfw: | If I may, before getting to current – the main problem that we percieved with the previous, was getting the elder (relative to us at least) finance partner up to speed on tech / security | [17:54] |
| jfw: | He'd be all friendly and say he'd put in the time, but not follow through. THen likewise with more basic things like forming company. | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: such parts don't appear in a …vacuum, I think you said, remember? | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: oh boy; next I'll hear he sent you to London/somewhere to work with his good-friend there on some business and then it just..somehow, did not work out; lolz. | [17:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right. | [17:57] |
| jfw: | So we had poor judgement, didn't do diligence on him I suppose. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I was just amused because it's such a …how to put it, an old story if you will; don't worry now about it though. | [17:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman didn't go that far. we were patient with him because on the other hard, the development work continued to be chewed away at, but not delivered. | [17:59] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that happened to Benjamin Franklin! | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ha! well don1 | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: now go and see to your draft and leave jfw alone for a bit, will you? | [18:00] |
| dorion: | yes, on it! | [18:00] |
| jfw: | (also true re development delays.) So current biz is to find people with BTC, or interested in it, but lacking knowledge of how to hold it in a good way, and provide a decent hardware & software option and training on its use. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so what's the decent hardware & software option? | [18:02] |
| jfw: | The hope also is that some of these grow into longer term trade relationships with more secure individuals. | [18:03] |
| jfw: | Machines with blob-free Coreboot/LinuxBIOS, at least one 'online' and one laptop for 'offline'; one way at a time optical isolation for comms between the two; FUCKGOATS TRNG; my Linux distro; TRB node for the 'online' | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: o.O did you buy FG or make your own from the schematics or what? | [18:05] |
| jfw: | We bought 5 in the original release – at the time thinking 'just for us'. Ability to source more is a worry now for sure. | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what trade is that meant to be re "longer term trade relationships"? more/further training or what? | [18:08] |
| jfw: | no, BTC / other assets | [18:09] |
| jfw: | is this stupid to contemplate? | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so are you educating your market there or how do you see this? | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I don't quite get what you are trying there. | [18:10] |
| asciilifeform: | remembers jfw as 1 of the 'mystery' FG buyers from '16-17. ( tho tradition is that asciilifeform does not mention who buys FG unless buyer 1st publicly speaks, jfw spoke, during the '#t went dark' thread , re subj. ) | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you don't actually know, that's an answer too. | [18:11] |
| jfw: | Educating our network, with the idea it could become a market, where previously nobody with money outside here would have a clue what we were saying re GPG etc. | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that in itself is certainly not a bad idea as far as I can see; the unclear/dubious part was re mid/long-term vision; but anyway, you're focused mainly on the tech I gather so possibly not all that clear on that part. | [18:15] |
| jfw: | possibly, yes | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: now the trouble is this gap that you accumulated and quite knowingly/with intention over those past few years; eg on one hand good enough to buy fg 2-3 years ago but somehow not good enough to say hi at the very least. | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I don't know if you appreciate this but you can't just pop in with "hi guyz, here's my OS" | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what was your plan anyway re this? since I remember you did have some intention this year at least to introduce yourself | [18:17] |
| jfw: | I do, and wish to dig out of this hole, because what else can I do. Unsure how though. | [18:18] |
| asciilifeform: | found it esp. interesting that someone would buy fg but not 'say hi', given as it is imho intrinsically an artifact that is worth little unless you have a sense of who made it, and why, and have proper wot link-up to its origin | [18:19] |
| jfw: | Plan was to try to engage conversations where I could, get blog up to introduce self more propelry | [18:19] |
| jfw: | *properly lol | [18:19] |
| jfw: | asciilifeform: I could see at least it was only option without the 'whitening' and only vendor even talking about that | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: funny how you say that when it maps so close to some of your hangups, lolz. | [18:20] |
| jfw: | focused on verifiability | [18:21] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i've 9000 hangups, lol. which 1 are you thinking of ? | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: you evaluate the tech very well and even prod it at length; but you don't particularly see the need for that to talk to the guys who made it and/or "ah, they won't answer anyway" etc. | [18:22] |
| jfw: | asciilifeform does at least seem to have less hangup on 'talk to people' than jfw… | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | or at least that's how it seems from here | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, you've been talking here for hours, what are you on about! | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [18:22] |
| jfw: | floodgates opened! | [18:23] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i've moar of a chronicle-talks hangup than 'talks' per se ( had to have endless talks w/ factory people when made FG; iron vendors; and most recently, rack folx ) but the experience is so frustrating that difficult to bring self to write about it at length . | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: he's quite hang up on chronicling too, no worries :)) | [18:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: on the tech side, how dearly are you married to strictly your stuff there? | [18:26] |
| jfw: | I'm quite open to exploring polygamy, lol | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahaha, not bad as an answer at least. | [18:27] |
| jfw: | in particular I absolutely want to learn Ada | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what progr languages do you know anyway? | [18:28] |
| jfw: | C, C++, Python, Java (if life depended on), JS (likewise), OCaml, Scheme… I'd file under "know", though "read spec cover-to-cover" only for Scheme. Dabbled in more, to be sure. | [18:30] |
| asciilifeform: | 'read spec' != 'know' tho. can read schematics of bmw for years, but not know how to drive etc | [18:31] |
| jfw: | of which, hmm, CL, Haskell, Mathematica (long ago), VB (likewise), x86/amd64 assembly, 6802 machine code. I'll not offend anyone by counting 'html' a prog lang | [18:32] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: in which of these didja have occasion to write nontrivial (i.e. not school hw) proggy ? | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what is what you want most (ONE thing) out of the effort I'll ask from you in here? | [18:33] |
| jfw: | asciilifeform: true, though also non-homework doesn't necessarily mean non-trivial, let me review and get back to you on that. | [18:35] |
| jfw: | ah forgot SQL for at least the 'dabbled', possibly others. diana_coman: thinking… | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: re languages it's ok, I wanted to get some idea of exposure & types more than anything else. | [18:36] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: if this isn't too broad a "one thing", I want integration of my professed values, my actions, and what's good for me. | [18:39] |
| jfw: | I want respect / recognition and see that as the path to it. | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what are your professed values? | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | (works as a one thing; not too broad for that, no) | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: or are those still to be found (ie do you just mean there harmony basically)? | [18:43] |
| jfw: | To pursue useful knowledge; to act on it and share it and its fruits with those who deserve; to honor one's word. Would be a start. | [18:43] |
| jfw: | But to the extent currently perceived values are stupid, I want to change them, yes. | [18:44] |
| jfw: | ^ would be high-level values, besides lower ones like 'this computer and not that computer' | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahahah, computer choices are at most some specific application of values, not themselves values, lolz. | [18:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why/how come you think I'm anyway able to help you with such a thing? | [18:46] |
| jfw: | Because I have seen you hold people to the truth or getting to the root of matters, facing discomfort and doing what is needed. I perceive you to be highly effective in your own affairs, and enjoy the good esteem of MP who is likewise in his. | [18:49] |
| jfw: | *and to enjoy | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: as long as you don't think I'm some sort of perfection, it might even work. | [18:51] |
| jfw: | I understand you are indeed human and that just means I gotta communicate myself all the more clearly. | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and more to the point, I *can* make mistakes too; your bet and hope there is that my mistakes are less worse than yours and/or my recovery from them is better than yours. | [18:53] |
| jfw: | Indeed. And it may be a while but I will be happy if some time I can help you see a mistake of yours. | [18:54] |
| jfw: | I understand there's no guarantee about you, but neither is there on any other path. | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: indeed; the issue though is one of commitment really, esp since by taking you on I have to take on this bridge-that-gap thing that is potentially very charged. | [18:58] |
| jfw: | Would you like to reflect on it further, or ask me more questions? | [18:59] |
| jfw: | I'll be re-reading the log for sure | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you get what the WoT is and how it works? | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | (and lol, do you think I wouldn't just say precisely "will reflect and let you know" and/or ask the questions I needed?) | [19:01] |
| jfw: | It is a representation of the graph of trust or distrust and their respective certainty level in human relationships. How it works, I think means how to use it effectively at which I think myself a beginner. | [19:02] |
| jfw: | heh, glad at least I knew what you might say, sorry for the noise then. | [19:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not just noise, more a matter of knowing what is whose worry really; it's not serving anyone (and you especially) well to confuse the roles really. | [19:04] |
| jfw: | gotcha. | [19:04] |
| jfw: | huh, "how it works" probably not the same as "how to use it" as those are separate clauses in the canonical article title… | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyway, given your long time on the fence (that wasn't spent idly from what I could see) + http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-15-Oct-2019#1006462 , I'm inclined to think you know it's not just "get out" if/when inconvenient | [19:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-15 23:18:01 jfw: The neighbors are probably wondering who died; as far as I could tell it was gonna be either my 5-year best friends relationship with him, my potential relationships with ~everyone here, or a particularly stubborn bit of our own stupidity. | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007351 – yes. | [19:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 19:06:08 jfw: huh, "how it works" probably not the same as "how to use it" as those are separate clauses in the canonical article title… | [19:06] |
| jfw: | http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ that is (wasn't avoiding citing, just digging for link.) | [19:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right; I'll take you on; I'll set you up with an account on yh by the end of this week; meanwhile you still have at least 1 article to write&publish on your blog for sure. | [19:08] |
| jfw: | Thank you Master Diana Coman. There a specific article you have in mind there or just getting the flow started? | [19:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/hello-world/?b=illustrate&end=#select – that bit there is such a bunch of avoidance that you'd better start with the illustration mentioned | [19:12] |
| jfw: | Will do. | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | and no, don't agonize; see the 3-steps process: 1. write down *the draft without worrying about everything at once* 2. proofread and basic revision 3. *after some time, at the very least 1 hour* re-read and do ONE proper, full revision if/as needed | [19:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and then you publish it, that's it; if it sucks, it's ok, you'll get told in clear enough terms. | [19:16] |
| whaack: | jfw: if you went to TJ then you may know of my high school, Stuyvesant. Do you come to CR ever? | [19:17] |
| jfw: | How should I approach "discuss my status in considering submission to Diana Coman's mentorship if I can get it", given the considering is complete? Just saying that? | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that would be a 2nd post, namely write-up your experience from stumbling on #o to now; on post 1 though focus on the adventures to bringing blog online, it's enough for one post. | [19:19] |
| jfw: | whaack: I've heard of it, yes, and my dad was a Bronx Science kid. Was gonna mention earlier but figured, first things first. Pleased to meet you btw. Haven't been to CR as yet. | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for that matter it would be quite useful to you to look back and structure the whole thing + write it up for later, it's been close to a month anyway by now. | [19:20] |
| whaack: | jfw: i may want to keep my 90 day visa in order until I get residency in CR so I'll likely be making a trip to Panama in the next 3 or 6 months | [19:22] |
| jfw: | whaack: cool, keep me posted, I'd be glad to meet up somewhere or have you over. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: shrysr whaack get yourselves a proper avatar on your blog, will you? mp-wp will use whatever you have as avatar.png on your domain eg mine is http://ossasepia.com/avatar.png | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | blogs* | [19:24] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: ack on looking back on month, avatar. | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack you blog that. | [19:24] |
| jfw: | Probably going to be visiting family back north around Christmas but otherwise should be around. | [19:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: certainly. | [19:35] |
| whaack: | and also I will get an avatar pic up by tonight | [19:36] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007357 << congrats jfw. I've not read through the backlog, but will tonight after the Junto. (jfw and I've been organizing a 'learning group' which meets a couple times a month, in the Benjamin Franklin spirit, for nearly 2 years now.) | [19:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 19:08:40 diana_coman: jfw: all right; I'll take you on; I'll set you up with an account on yh by the end of this week; meanwhile you still have at least 1 article to write&publish on your blog for sure. | [19:38] |
| dorion: | bbl. | [19:38] |
| whaack: | (btw for those reading the logs, the relationship between TJ and Stuyvesant is that they are both magnet high schools in the US that have math teams that do well in national scholastic competitions. The entrance exam for Stuyvesant, the only criteria that is considered for admission, is the same entrance exam used for Bronx Science) | [19:42] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Oct-2019#1007076 << heh, almost. the property is now secured but still a few months away from jumping the fence | [20:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-22 11:29:36 diana_coman: billymg: I thought the whole point was to get out of the salt mines; or what, does the new property come with salt mine attached so you feel "like home" ? lolz | [20:09] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | morning; so nice to wake up to the full list of expected things-to-read really. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | Guest73611: is that you, whaack? | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did the *plan* take you that long/longer than expected even? it looks like mainly a list of the technical stuff + an afterthought/unsure-wtf-this-is add-on; or is this just the bit that you finally published and you spent this time on getting started on other drafts or what happened here? | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | I will look at it and comment in more detail later today at any rate. | [04:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2019/10/simple-steps-part-1-school-spirit/?b=this\%20context&end=#select – quite; note also that it's not only what you *do* but also what you *fail to do* that also has priors and context. | [06:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: your text is quite dense and at times touching on several directions at once but at any rate, it seems useful to you especially if you never took the time before to look at it all in a more structured way. | [06:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: as you said you have 4 more articles to get to current day, this may take a while; what's your current eta on this initial series? | [06:08] |
| diana_coman: | since I ended up writing a whole post as comment for whaack's review of the past week, there are quite a few things in there that others might find useful too. | [07:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: morning/evening, ^ yes it was. rough waters in the digitalocean last night. | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | heh, wb whaack-not-guest then. | [09:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: to clarify, was your and-i-wont-save-you-from-the-rats post your comment? Because I don't see another comment on my week-1 review | [09:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no,hmmm let me see there. | [09:36] |
| whaack: | now i do. | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it was stuck in moderating queue; forgot that new install -> needs again first approved comment. | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | ah, not even that but because of the links in it; right. | [09:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: while the "what I've done with myself" is the right approach, your almost exclusive focus on "the technical" paints the single-arm picture (that asciilifeform will recognise); and note that just like in asciilifeform's case, this single-arm thing is very debilitating | [09:42] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-10 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-10#1944537 << i don't think you're a liar. i think you're a https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QO6WLGB4RBU/maxresdefault.jpg ; and as your misfortune would have it very few interesting or important things in this world can be done single handedly. | [09:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: moreover, what you need to understand and understand *very clearly* is that "technical" is not and can not be apolitical; and as such, you aren't going to be able to push your way anywhere merely on the strength of technical | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for a more concrete application here: while you possibly did very useful work, your failure to date to engage and your so-many-years persistence in man-aloning means now that there is a big trust&rep gap to fill; and just throwing your code+vpatches+docs out there won't fill it by itself because you are effectively asking people to spend their time on evaluating a big lump of unknown, as it stands. | [09:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, this is not to dishearten you or anything; merely to point out that you really can't neglect your "weak arm" anymore and that we do need to talk *first* of non-technical really. | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose I should clearly state that the biggest part of that lump of unknown above is *not* the code, but… you, the author of the code. | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: say something. | [10:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: read your comment. I was going to respond there but I'll ask here. | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: better here if you have questions as it will get an answer way more timely | [10:04] |
| whaack: | For the wandering thoughts while reading, I will go for about a page and a half reading and comprehending properly, and then I'll start thinking about something else. A big problem is that while thinking about the ~else~ I keep "reading", and then to recalibrate i have to rewind and find the spot in the text where I started wandering off | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also known as tuning out; did similar happen when you were watching that Spanish film/whatever? | [10:07] |
| whaack: | no I don't think so, at least I didn't realize it. I think that the sensory load of the tv prevents it from happening. | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: one easy way to go at it is simply to put the book down after a page and half to start with,take a break/do something else and then get back for another page and a half, with the aim to gradually increase this; it's a very frustrating thing for sure (good god, I'd kill someone if I had to put down the book after each 1.5pages) but it's certainly better than what you describe there | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does this happen for all books you read? | [10:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, but i think it's a function of how interesting i find the book and how difficult it is for me to comprehend the book. If it's interesting and easy to comprehend then I go for a longer stretch without tuning out. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: obviously; the bad habit there is to keep with the pretense (the reading-while-thinking-of-something-else) rather than anything else | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | other than that, realise that reading text is not a matter of "number of words" solely (hence why this current "5 minutes read" bullshit is so hillarious); ie more difficult books will have to be taken in smaller bites, yes | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | you can either start with easier reads or take more frequent breaks on the harder stuff; the one thing that you should however NOT do is to allow this apparent-reading-only | [10:16] |
| whaack: | lol do the medium blog posts put a time on the read automatically, that is not set by the author? i know in either case it's dumb since N-minutes read is also based on who the reader is. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I kept seeing it recently all around so not only medium but possibly it started there, no idea where exactly the nonsense started and it doesn't quite matter either. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, you can't set "reading time is this" because it won't be the same for everyone, obviously. | [10:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I was more cognizant of my cheating ahead while reading this time since I knew you may ask me questions about what I read | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! good for you. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | also worth noting that reading is re-reading really. | [10:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-08-19 13:37:43 diana_alt: shrysr: the basic rule is that you'll need to go through each thing at least 3 times to get it but that's more of a lower bound than anything else really | [10:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: next, regarding sustainable saltmines. i have cash saved up and food and rent are pretty cheap here so even 8 hours a week goes along way. that being said I do want to be saving and have a buffer so i don't ever have to sell any btc, if you will. I don't think my problem is i have a bad saltmines job. At least, i don't think i'm going to come by one that pays decent, is flexible, and has some mildly interesting featur | [10:30] |
| whaack: | es I can work on like this one. | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then do the work properly on this one for as long as it lasts at least; because look here that now you pushed it into this week that ends up with 20 hours for saltmine and that starts biting already. | [10:32] |
| whaack: | okay. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: update the plan for this week. | [10:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. I am not immediately clear about what I need to change for my plan from your comment on my review post. Two points I get from it are: 1. I need to do more reading about V. The work involved w/ my writeup on the Ode to V and The V Manual Genesis includes rereading, but perhaps I shall clarify that. 2. I need to do a writeup on The Odyssey. Is there some more I am missing? | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, there is. | [10:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: A summary for feelings are helpful but not for idiots. (i can't help but make an uncomfortable laugh at missing the reading comprehension task) | [10:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: quite so, yes; and btw, split the tasks in your plan in 2 groups: must-do + time-permitting; because you are planning too much there and you'll make a mess out of it all in the end if you keep all in the must-do | [10:56] |
| whaack: | ok | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Sep-2019#1002548 – lobbes, what ever happened to/with this? | [10:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 15:05:59 lobbes: diana_coman: interesting. I will do this, ty | [10:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Updated, but I am worried about my ability to compete the must-do list. The two new items, the feelings post summary and The Odyssey may take me a long time. And I can't see anything that I can move out of the must-do. | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: see comment | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: done. I wasn't sure from your comment if I should put saltmines as #1 or #2. I put it as #2, but I understand it must be completed. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: exactly so. | [11:23] |
| whaack: | cool ty. with that i'm off to the saltmines. | [11:23] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1006976 – I'm afraid so, nothing further drafted atm. I had thought I'd have another out by now, not sure what happened exactly. Describing the items on the list took time. But generally writing is definitely part of my weak side; not that I can't put the words together coherently, but that I sometimes get hung up on it, which historically has | [14:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 04:17:34 diana_coman: jfw: did the *plan* take you that long/longer than expected even? it looks like mainly a list of the technical stuff + an afterthought/unsure-wtf-this-is add-on; or is this just the bit that you finally published and you spent this time on getting started on other drafts or what happened here? | [14:42] |
| jfw: | discouraged me from doing it any more than strictly necessary, which in turn is surely keeping it weak. | [14:42] |
| jfw: | I accept that technology cannot be apolitical, though I probably don't understand it clearly enough. | [14:44] |
| jfw: | I'm not surprised by the criticism of unbalance, though it's good to see it spelled out, certainly. | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so then it might work still better simply talking to you; let's say tomorrow evening. | [15:17] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: ok, cool. | [15:20] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1006978 << right, thanks for making that a comment, I replied >> http://dorion-mode.com/2019/10/simple-steps-part-1-school-spirit/?b=this\%20context&end=#comment-3 | [16:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 06:01:08 diana_coman: dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2019/10/simple-steps-part-1-school-spirit/?b=this\%20context&end=#select – quite; note also that it's not only what you *do* but also what you *fail to do* that also has priors and context. | [16:37] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1006979 << yeah, I reckon the multidirectional density is a cost of condensing a series of events into one post. It was certainly useful, and enjoyable (!), to structure for publication. I've journaled privately and spoken with others about the decisions and context, but these mediums are inherently less structured and more costly to reproduce. | [16:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 06:07:18 diana_coman: dorion: your text is quite dense and at times touching on several directions at once but at any rate, it seems useful to you especially if you never took the time before to look at it all in a more structured way. | [16:40] |
| dorion: | I started a hand written journaling habit in 2015 as a way to reduce the spinning in that reading what I wrote last week or last month is less costly than 'thinking' about it again. While that's been good and all, there's greater chance of being blind to the negative spaces compared to publishing for the world to see and comment on. | [16:43] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Oct-2019#1006980 << I estimate by next Sunday. Part of the time investment/cost on this one was learning the medium, so that will improve with practice. | [16:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-21 06:08:46 diana_coman: dorion: as you said you have 4 more articles to get to current day, this may take a while; what's your current eta on this initial series? | [16:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm going to be stepping away for a few hours, but will check back later tonight and be ready to chat tomorrow evening GMT, as agreed last Thursday. | [17:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman do you have suggestions you'd be kind enough to share on mitigating the density/multidirectionality of the articles ? It occurs my initial reply 'accepted' the cost, rather than asking to improve it. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you may be overestimating how much "the whole world" actually reads anything, lol; (and at that it's a natural overestimation pretty much ~everyone does at first); other than that, the blog medium is about more than just the public aspect – it *also* allows you to link and therefore to build on your own already-spent effort in a way that paper just can't do. | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re density/multidirection, it's hard to say at the moment exactly what would work for you; for one thing I expect you'll get better at it anyway as you get more used to it and for the other, if you don't, the precise way in which you tend to break it will show more clearly once you published more. | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: as you say you'll finish this series this week, I'd say focus on it then and get it done and we talk afterwards, so next Tuesday since otherwise tomorrow we still pretty much continue from where we left off last time so there isn't a big gain. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | http://dorion-mode.com/2019/10/simple-steps-part-1-school-spirit/#comment-4 – in which dorion is introduced to some basic notions of sources and referencing; might come in handy for others too. | [18:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: If diana_coman thinks it would be a good use of your time, you can try writing tight prose for Qntra. | [22:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | Also, I'm curious what the legal codes are like in Panama. Have you read them yet? | [22:11] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: plox to comment at your earliest chance. nitpicks/flames welcome. | [23:08] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-21 feedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=3486 << Loper OS — TMSR North Ameristan Rack Prospectus: Initial Draft. | [23:08] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Oct-2019#1006958 – hopefully at least one of you two blogs this too. | [17:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-19 22:47:47 whaack: great hit me up when you're here if you want to meet for a cerveza | [17:15] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: confirmed, thank you very much! | [03:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lol; I'll put it down as Sunday-deadline and lump it all for reading with the younghands.club on Monday | [04:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: footnotes plugin working on younghands.club now; it was there but not activated; as part of testing I've updated your post so it has proper footnotes now. | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: use your initials in the titles of *all* your posts there though. | [04:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Thanks for activating footnotes, I added my initials. | [08:19] |
| whaack: | is off to CR | [08:49] |
| diana_coman: | safe travels | [08:55] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ok! and when you get chance — test what sorta bw you get there — atm you have entire pipe to yourself. | [12:29] |
| dorion: | hi diana_coman dorion-mode.com lives at 198.199.70.97 , i've started the draft of my initial article and aim to have it published by Sunday deadline. my approach at this point is to write in chronological order to document my ideological/intellectual development and decisions, which equates to fives articles to bring us to the present. | [12:56] |
| dorion: | future articles that expand on the various nodes will back cite this initial series. | [12:58] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Oct-2019#1006906 << fwiw, I spent a good chunk of my early 20s listening/reading ol' stefbot. my takeaway is he takes 'know thy self' and act with courage and integrity quite seriously. he focuses on encouraging people to apply their stated values to their personal relationships first and foremost, hence also the focus on childhood. "is the woman | [13:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-18 13:32:54 thimbronion: diana_coman: I don't think he did too much of that. For example, frequently told women complaining about their husbands that the problem lies largely with them. Each call starts with him getting to know the person, going over their childhood. Everything proceeds from there. | [13:12] |
| dorion: | complaining about her husband because he actually sucks? or is it because it's cheaper for her to walk away from him than confront her sucky parents?" if the latter, it's obviously harder because she built up an internal mechanism from a young age, that's likely now subconsious, to repress the confrontation. | [13:12] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Oct-2019#1006888 << to expand here on my understanding of the process for evoking the want: 1) determine what value you have to bring / problem you can solve, 2) establish your ideal client profile (not all clients are +ev, 'strategic superiority', 3) develop questions from 1+2 to qualify prospects, | [13:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-18 13:16:41 diana_coman: so then what conflict? the whole point is exactly to engage with them so that they *want* to do the sensible thing; if they are at all capable of being sensible, sure, but the attempt has to be done to even determine that. | [13:29] |
| dorion: | 4) if they are ideal client, their answers to your questions result in them voiceing they have a problem you can solve and it's a priority for them to solve it by working with you. 5) manage the process of closing the deal. | [13:29] |
| dorion: | easier said than done, like any skill takes practice and I'm not claiming to be a master of it. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: go ahead with the writing; at this stage there isn't much I can say on plans-only. | [14:22] |
| dorion: | diana_coman understood, will do, thank you. | [14:50] |
| whaack: | aaand greetings from Guanacaste | [21:01] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: Aloha | [22:42] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: ayo. did you get to Hawaii in one piece? | [22:45] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: very smooth voyage, thanks. | [22:46] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: Will be curious about Guanacaste. I'm headed there next month. | [22:46] |
| whaack: | great hit me up when you're here if you want to meet for a cerveza | [22:47] |
| thimbronion: | I shall! | [22:48] |
| whaack: | any chance you're going to surf in Hawaii? | [22:49] |
| thimbronion: | I might take lessons again. Probably more snorkeling though. | [22:51] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: are you a surfer? | [22:54] |
| whaack: | yes, i surfed ~everyday while living in CR for a year | [22:55] |
| whaack: | i'm sure Hawaii has some beginner friendly spots, but from my understanding most of the surf is over reef | [22:56] |
| thimbronion: | it was last time I tried. | [22:57] |
| whaack: | lol! that is an extreme way to learn to surf | [22:58] |
| whaack: | your faults will be exposed with gashes | [22:58] |
| thimbronion: | hm. it was long ago. I remember it being shallow for a long way out, with something not sand on the floor. Anyway, had an instructor right there. | [23:00] |
| whaack: | well save surfing for guanacaste then. we have sand beaches with swell protection, and here you can discuss a trilema article as you wait between waves | [23:03] |
| thimbronion: | consider it saved. | [23:05] |
| whaack: | :) enjoy hawaii, i'm off to bed | [23:06] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Oct 2019
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: how's the data collection going? | [03:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-17 12:59:57 thimbronion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Oct-2019#1006708 << is the idea here to set up a cloud instance with a bouncer on it maybe per network, then manually list and join all channels on the network and just take advantage of znc's built in logging? | [03:20] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-18#1946288 | [11:02] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-18 mp_en_viaje: [10:24:32] Hey Ahnberg I'm coming from TMSR (http://logs.ossasepia.net). << wtf is wrong with this guy ? | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: so get the data but stay off talking to them. | [11:03] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: right in the middle of something but 1) updated post to fix escaping problem with nicks, 2) won't talk to anyone 3) I was unable to get started on collecting the data. | [11:04] |
| diana_coman: | I see; aite. | [11:05] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-10-18#1946298 What is my status on the IRC Project now? | [11:46] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-18 mp_en_viaje: but he's certainly made it more difficult for anyone coming after him. which is the exact fucking opposite of helping. | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: you are certainly off talking to them so it's not going to be your project, no; trouble is that you supposedly wanted precisely to communicate re china too but you have big problems exactly there. | [11:54] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: indeed that is the necessary conclusion. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: until you seriously fix the communication, the only option open is to be very useful doing tech jobs for people that can communicate. | [11:58] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I see. Well my poor communication skills have gotten me into a lot of trouble in life. | [12:01] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: and I don't enjoy tech work all that much. I would really prefer to work on fixing my communication skills. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: if it's just about preference, it's unlikely to get fixed in any reasonable time frame; it's the sort of thing that needs to be about "I can't fucking stand this anymore and we'll do WHATEVER it takes to fix it" | [12:08] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: btw, is this why you don't get your own clients for that consulting ? | [12:09] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: yes it is. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | it's pretty much from *there* that it has to change; or even closer at home for you; this is the sort of thing for which if you were here I'd just send you *every day* to chat up random people until that first basic bit works at least acceptable. | [12:11] |
| thimbronion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Oct-2019#1006847 << I see what you mean here. | [12:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-18 12:08:06 diana_coman: thimbronion: if it's just about preference, it's unlikely to get fixed in any reasonable time frame; it's the sort of thing that needs to be about "I can't fucking stand this anymore and we'll do WHATEVER it takes to fix it" | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | that "we'll" was meant to be "will" above. | [12:13] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: say something. | [12:23] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I have a lot of feelings right now, but not many thoughts. | [12:23] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: I see; trace those feelings back to source to get thoughts; and don't act on them feelings. | [12:24] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: Can you tell me ideally how the conversations should have gone? | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: for that matter you know, you should probably just plan a trip to china, invite that Mia for some meal, talk to some people there; that http://thimbron.com/2019/10/a-bitcoin-missionary-in-china/ sounds just about as painful as the networks talk, the same sort. | [12:33] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: it's weirdly easier for me to talk to people in a foreign language. | [12:34] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: see http://thimbron.com/2019/10/espernet-2nd-chance/ ; the core of talking to *someone* is to actually engage with them personally for the duration of that conversation | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | look back through all the logs here: am I just spitting out same thing to everyone and expect they'll magically get it or what? | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: fwiw that "easier in a foreign language" points out to some very repressed home-culture/young interactions really. | [12:36] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: no you respond to exactly what people say. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: and even any starter I say is made specifically to that person too for as long as there is a clear person; look back to my first comment on your blog if nothing else; if it's not a person, the next discernible thing (eg the group, the chan, the network, the site, whatevers) | [12:38] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I had been thinking of visiting China this coming Summer to meet in person the contacts I would have made by that point. | [12:40] |
| thimbronion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Oct-2019#1006864 << this makes sense | [12:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-18 12:38:28 diana_coman: thimbronion: and even any starter I say is made specifically to that person too for as long as there is a clear person; look back to my first comment on your blog if nothing else; if it's not a person, the next discernible thing (eg the group, the chan, the network, the site, whatevers) | [12:42] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I can submit my review by Sunday. But at this point I have no idea what to write for my plan. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: leave both review and plan for when you get back; you clearly need more time to think this through and the review itself should benefit from giving it more thought; but you do need to think of it, it's not going to be disconnect-holidays. | [12:48] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: what is your plan re blog+here while on holidays anyway? | [12:49] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: Re: blog I was planning to take and post some pics. I wasn't planning on doing or saying anything in here during the trip. | [12:50] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: blog is fine but not just pics please; talk to people there, it's holidays + relaxed anyway so it might even help to get over some hangups | [12:53] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I want to be clear on what hangups I might have. For example, I'm not a shut in. I talk to people around my office (when I'm there), I talk to my local chinese contact a lot. Last time I went to CR I talked to a LOT of people – girls, uber drivers, random americans. Friendly chitchat is no problem whatsoever. | [12:58] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: had this fun situation at the Arenal hot springs where I was talking in Japanese with some Japanese tourists, then talking in spanish with a mexican girl, then going back to english for the American girl. It was great fun. | [12:59] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: that was the initial idea and why you got the talk to networks project – that you actually *are fine* talking to people; but obviously not and now the only possible suspicion from above is that you are "fine" for as long as it's literally generic chitchat ie exactly *not* quite engaging specifically with someone. | [13:01] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, getting drunk on multiple languages is a thing too. | [13:01] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I think my problem is with conflict. | [13:01] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: wasn't even drinking! (until like the very end) | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: no, I know; I said getting drunk *on* multiple languages; no drinks required, no, just the same resulting happy diziness, lolz; then again, it's even better if drinks + 4 languages, after a while it's just hysterical, but let's get back to what you say your problem is. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: how is it "conflict" with your potential clients? | [13:04] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I don't think it's conflict. I can't actually think of a time where I've done anything more than ping previous co-workers to see if they know about any work. | [13:08] |
| thimbronion: | In the IRC chats, I perceived the conflict as being them wanting me to fill out the form, and me wanting to say no I'm not going to do that. | [13:10] |
| thimbronion: | Also the conflict of my *trying to get somebody else to do something*. | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: re irc chats the problem starts earlier than that anyway; and at any rate, that's a rather weird definition of conflict. | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: lolz, do you imagine you'll *force* people to do something they don't want to, purely through a computer screen? | [13:14] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I don't imagine I'll force, no. | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | (also: that is most pointedly NOT diplomacy so wtf are you mixing there, on one hand imagining conflict and on the other hand claiming diplomacy) | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | so then what conflict? the whole point is exactly to engage with them so that they *want* to do the sensible thing; if they are at all capable of being sensible, sure, but the attempt has to be done to even determine that. | [13:16] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: So maybe I could have had a chat with them about the future of IRC. Like, "Do you see where it's going? You value it don't you? Then you must do X" | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: ugh, no; that is ~chinese article,lolz. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | you are there exactly like that chinese guy "buy mah btc cause future, why won't you" | [13:18] |
| thimbronion: | Yes, I think I am. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: how do those guy's attempts seem to you, by the way? | [13:18] |
| thimbronion: | Autistic | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: what you talk to them about in first instance is *themselves* | [13:21] |
| thimbronion: | The first time I ever found someone that actually listened to what people said was when I started to Stefan Molyneux. Actually that happened about the same time I started reading the logs and realizing, when I tried to say something in there, that I was not responding to what people actually said. | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | obv, for that you need first to be able and take the time/put in the effort to figure out something about who and how they are. | [13:21] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: yes I see I did not do that. | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | what's this stefan molyneux? | [13:22] |
| thimbronion: | Podcaster/Youtuber, mentioned in #bitcoin-assets a few times. "Biggest Philosophy Show in the World" is how he would describe what he does. For many years he took call-ins and worked through peoples problems with them. | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | 'dat title misses the "how to be happy and fulfilled in 10 easy steps" | [13:26] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: Ah self help? | [13:27] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: yeah but with the result of helping especially the talker; there is also this "listening to people" that is done (and done well at that) traditionally by fortune tellers and the like; I suppose in the US it might be the self-helpers that fill the role; but at any rate, yes, ~any successful show that gets people calling to talk and talk means that the person doing it is at least good at telling people what they want to hear. | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | there's a difference though between telling them what they want to hear (and they'll come in crowds to listen to THAT) and getting them to actually hear what they need rather than what they want. | [13:30] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I don't think he did too much of that. For example, frequently told women complaining about their husbands that the problem lies largely with them. Each call starts with him getting to know the person, going over their childhood. Everything proceeds from there. | [13:32] |
| diana_coman: | in fairness and on second pass, I suppose "biggest philosophy show in the world" fits better the "i fucking love science" than the self-help. | [13:32] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: that's a. stock answer, not personal b. actually what at least *some* women absolutely want to hear c. exactly priest style "come and confess your sins and unload your troubles, I have advice " | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | do realise that the format and hour and everything already makes a selection of participants | [13:35] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: His show would last sometimes 4 hours. Number of callers varied depending on how long it took to get to the root of the problem. | [13:36] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I can see c. | [13:36] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: good for them if it also worked. | [13:36] |
| thimbronion: | Wrt a) I'm generalizing and his criticisms were specifc and based on the caller's previous statements. | [13:37] |
| thimbronion: | b. I can believe. | [13:37] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: btw if indeed first time experiencing actual human conversation, it's not much wonder you find it difficult in your native language; but how the fuck is that even possible, where /in what sort of thing did you grow up to never have had someone actually talking *to you*? | [13:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-18 13:21:44 thimbronion: The first time I ever found someone that actually listened to what people said was when I started to Stefan Molyneux. Actually that happened about the same time I started reading the logs and realizing, when I tried to say something in there, that I was not responding to what people actually said. | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose it's worth stating explicitly also the difference between talking *to* someone and talking *at* someone: the first case involves that someone; the second just uses the someone as direction of some sounds/words. | [13:50] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: Hm. Parents divorced, two adopted sisters much older and with lots of problems. Moved schools almost yearly from age 7. I can recall *very* few conversations between my parents, who are divorced. Lots of conversations *about* things/history with my dad. My mom did not talk much, now that I think about it. | [13:54] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: They both definitely have problems saying what they actually think. | [13:56] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: Also scandinavian background if that helps explain things a little. | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | the surname certainly made me think -> scandinavian; but at any rate, the past is what it is; the q is what are you going to do for the future. | [13:59] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I don't know. Like you said, I need to take some times to think things over. I do not want to act rashly, or give up too easily. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: all right. | [14:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There are currently no footnotes on younghands, correct? | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, that's possible; I'll look at it some time this weekend. | [14:32] |
| whaack: | okay I will just put (n) in the text and a (n) with the footnote at the bottom for now. | [14:34] |
| jfw: | With 4 hours left I'm not certain I can make my ETA for first post. I will proceed as if I must, because if I don't and miss, I won't know whether I could have. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: good luck! | [17:42] |
| jfw: | ty! | [17:43] |
| jfw: | well I'm "close!!11" but not there, and other duties call for now so the "extended end of day" of when diana_coman wakes is probably not happening either. | [21:05] |
| jfw: | and not all that close on further consideration, lol. Revised ETA 21:00 GMT. | [21:37] |
| ascii_rack: | diana_coman: 205.134.172.6 . | [23:05] |
| ascii_rack: | diana_coman: please test & confirm when you get chance. | [23:05] |