#ossasepia Logs for 23 Nov 2019

April 21st, 2020 by Diana Coman
whaack: diana_coman: EOD report: I was focused today in the sense that my ass was on the chair & again I did not indulge in nonsense (although I admit I took 30 mins on the guitar to watch the sunset.) That said I think I am 'spinning' throughout the day at various points since I still did not get much done. I knocked out four hours of saltmines, and had a conversation with bestcomputersa that turned out less than ideal. I tried to follow [00:10]
whaack: up with them about what other parts they have / could they send me some list since their website is out of date. They said yes they would but never got back to me. I have another lead pcgamingcr.com that I emailed and will call tomorrow. The best thing I walk away with today was probably having read hanbot's translation of mp's article. [00:10]
diana_coman: whaack: I see. What's the situation there with your computer parts ie now you have some that go with a processor you can't find or what exactly? [05:02]
whaack: diana_coman: Bestcomputersa does not have the video card, motherboard, nor graphics card I picked. So essentially the components that depend most on each other are all missing. [08:32]
whaack: diana_coman: I went through the motherboards on pcgamingcr, none of them as far as I can tell support the fx 8350 so I would not be surprised if they also do not have the processor despite listing it on their website (i tried calling but their "24/7" support is a meaningless sticker they place on their site) [08:57]
whaack: diana_coman: So looks like I will have to either switch to the ryzen series (my understanding is that decision means paying a little more to be a beta tester on less 'pure' hardware) or go back to plan A of ordering from the states. [09:00]
whaack: diana_coman: I will speak with the three companies (pcgamingcr.com, cococo.co.cr, and bestcomputersa.com) on the phone today to get a better idea of my options. Bestcomputersa did say they had an fx-8000 so I might see if I can find a compatible motherboard/video card and go with that option. [09:06]
diana_coman: whaack: ok. [09:33]
jfw: diana_coman: this not-quite-morning's article was late because I ran over time. I realized I wasn't clear on where the overall thing was going, so took some time to work on that. It seems I'm not at a point where the background thinking gets much done while in the background. [16:05]
diana_coman: jfw: well, that part takes time too esp since it sounds otherwise like you have a lot of practice in making sure it doesn't happen that way, lol. [16:07]
diana_coman: if you keep going over 1 hour though, try maybe half hour in the evening to plan *something* and then 1 hour in the morning to write on that. [16:08]
jfw: Otherwise: dorion is stuck on a fondleslate because the supposed campsite power supply didn't deliver. I'd let him be except that I have to clarify what wallet expectations actually are in light of http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/next-steps-in-wallet-planning/#comment-42 [16:08]
jfw: sounds good, I'll try that. [16:09]
diana_coman: jfw: so can you get hold of him to clarify on the wallet or not? [16:11]
jfw: Yes but unreliably. I'm planning to email the clients, though they're traveling as well [16:13]
diana_coman: tbh I'd much rather incline at this stage to *not* change the plans now but you do need to talk to him and agree if that's the best way forward atm or not. [16:14]
jfw: aha, was my inclination too [16:14]
diana_coman: is it perhaps a problem to have next year some "version 2" ? [16:16]
jfw: no; though I think his concern is trying to get the plan right the first time so as not to have to redo things [16:18]
diana_coman: eh, that he won't ~ever get, lol. [16:18]
jfw: heh, and the v1 would be instructive in further planning I expect [16:18]
diana_coman: quite. [16:18]
diana_coman: it's more important to not get it catastrophically/fundamentally wrong, that's about it. [16:19]
diana_coman: that said, there IS a cost to having clients change versions though [16:20]
diana_coman: hence my question above whether this is a potential problem or to what extent [16:20]
jfw: I'll add that to the list to clarify with them. [16:20]
diana_coman: jfw: that is more to clarify with dorion really; they won't *know* to tell you exactly, how could they? [16:21]
diana_coman: sure, you'll get an answer if you ask but ... [16:21]
jfw: On reviewing the trilema wallet articles he linked, it looks like I've covered most of the points, except for things like better accounting functions and programmable input selection, which I'd think can be added later once better specified [16:23]
diana_coman: so then it sounds like best to get v1 working really. [16:23]
diana_coman: jfw: also, there is that thing: fewer questions to the clients, it's enough that they pay for it!! [16:24]
diana_coman: lolz [16:24]
jfw: "they won't *know* to tell you exactly" - indeed, I'll keep the pressure on him then :D [16:25]
diana_coman: heh, have fun. [16:25]
jfw: Do you have any thoughts on plain-text representation of structured data - S-expressions vs JSON and so on? (I wouldn't touch XML if I don't have to, lol) [16:26]
jfw: Know if there's a preferred standard in Ada-land? [16:27]
diana_coman: hm, I am not aware of an Ada standard as such; thinking of it now, I would expect it's not a huge headache to implement either really but I haven't spent the time to consider/compare why one or the other. [16:31]
diana_coman: I suppose it depends on what you want you want to interface with further really [16:31]
diana_coman: jfw: ^ [16:44]
diana_coman: I'll be awk for a while. [16:45]
jfw: ah sorry. Indeed, depends on what you want to connect it to. They can be easier to implement too if you pick a subset, of course that has its downsides too. [16:48]
jfw: calls to mind the discussions of whether there can be one all-purpose OS, or all-purpose libraries for that matter, or every app has to be its own special thing [16:57]
diana_coman: jfw: thing is, you are not really either aiming to or in a position to enforce a standard through this wallet implementation. [17:34]
diana_coman: sure, do NOT go for xml! lolz [17:35]
jfw: diana_coman: what would that imply here - that I should at least be picking an existing standard? [17:36]
diana_coman: jfw: it implies that whatever you choose now may still need to change later if it turns out that the preferred/final standard is a different one [17:37]
jfw: was I a pain again with the not acknowledging back there btw? perhaps still need to remind myself of the basic etiquette. [17:37]
jfw: mm ok [17:38]
diana_coman: jfw: I simply had no idea if you got/read that or not; it does make for a bit of funny stuff as it is a matter of basic feedback, yeah. [17:39]
jfw: noted then. [17:40]
diana_coman: jfw: but as far as I understood the situation now, the focus was on getting a *working* version that keeps to republican fundamentals and that hopefully you can further iterate upon as you gain experience with your biz. [17:41]
jfw: that's right [17:41]
diana_coman: fwiw, I'm also not that sure that dorion's point was re getting it perfect now or something, eg "sufficiently extensive talks upfront and relatively less time coding than a brief terse exachange and longer than expected coding time." - this reads to me more like making sure it's clear what is to implement and how long it will take ie clarifying not perfecting. [17:43]
diana_coman: then again, you talked to him, not me. [17:44]
diana_coman: jfw: put it also the other way: if you had this one extra month, what do you think would be delivered additionally? [17:45]
diana_coman: give him the options: this month like this or in January like that. [17:46]
jfw: I answered the "sufficiently extensive" point but he didn't quite clarify that I saw; perhaps I'm indeed over-interpreting. [17:47]
diana_coman: sigh; /me goes to read your talk there. [17:48]
jfw: what would be delivered additionally is something that's perhaps received more input from the wider republic - although it's possible that such feedback can't be accomodated by January, e.g. if it's to rewrite in Ada or something [17:49]
diana_coman: jfw: that's not something feasible on that scale by end of January, no; and do NOT even think of re-writing it now because you can get an extension, GAH. [17:51]
diana_coman: jfw: he said correctly " What gaps remain ? What questions arise now in reading these articles ? Let's go ahead and leave our questions as comments on those articles." - that's about as much additional feedback you can get and then see if it squeezes through in this implementation; so: any questions there? [17:52]
diana_coman: jfw: tbh I think he stated there quite clearly for each point what next so not sure what is left other than the above ie if there are further gaps and/or questions on the fundamentals there [17:54]
jfw: fair enough; I didn't see any big questions on the fundamentals, more on the details. Can check if there's anything that can be asked in the context of the articles. [17:55]
diana_coman: and this "evaluate the usage within the context of the skills they either already had or are building through working with us" - so how well does this v1 fit what your clients learnt to use? to what extent would pushing the deadline to January increase this fit? [17:55]
jfw: I don't see it increasing the fit, they'd be learning something new building on existing skills either way. [17:56]
diana_coman: hm, I thought you two were better at talking to one another, huh. [17:56]
jfw: we or at least I might be struggling a bit with the more async form [17:58]
diana_coman: so then tell him all that ie 1. fundamentally it's aligned and fine, will check details today/tomorrow and see if there are further clarifications to ask for at those articles 2. not much to gain in extending the deadline as v1 of the wallet as it is would be a reasonable fit and either way they would still be learning something new (though ahem, do note that there are *degrees* there ie how much of a leap) [17:59]
diana_coman: 3. can iterate in principle more usefully once this version is out and in use (if that's the idea). [18:01]
diana_coman: jfw: I think I covered there main points but see if there's anything else you had in mind. [18:01]
whaack: diana_coman: Well I spoke with bestcomputersa and they informed me actually they do have ~one~ fx-8350 left. But they have no motherboard that supports it. [18:02]
diana_coman: whaack: not much use by itself, hm. [18:02]
diana_coman: whaack: so none of the local shops actually have all the components you wanted? [18:03]
jfw: thank you diana_coman; I will review the points. [18:03]
whaack: diana_coman: cococo did not and I have not heard back from pcgamingcr [18:03]
diana_coman: jfw: if you have something more concrete re Jan delivery, add that eg if we push the deadline to January, we can also have this and that that might/might not make it slightly/not at all/a lot easier for clients to learn/use/whatever. [18:04]
diana_coman: whaack: so at this point your options are either order parts from the US or otherwise change plans and build a ryzhen system, correct? [18:05]
diana_coman: jfw: and you know, reply to his points there eg will do etc. [18:06]
whaack: diana_coman: Now that I know bestcompuersa has one fx-8350, i am checking to see if i can find any compatible motherboard in the other shops [18:07]
diana_coman: whaack: it's risky because this sort of "have one" is dubious at best [18:07]
diana_coman: what if in the end they..don't have it? or it's defective? or whatevers? [18:07]
diana_coman: whaack: what was the main problem with ordering from the US? the customs? [18:08]
whaack: diana_coman: The experience for my test package was very smooth. The worry with ordering from US was extra trouble with customs for a bunch of electric parts + the lithium batteries on the motherboard. [18:09]
BingoBoingo: whaack: The lithium battery on the montherboard is usually just a 2032 coin cell. It's the rechargables that usually cause trouble [18:10]
diana_coman: whaack: so then look at most for the motherboard locally but other than that, it would seem that you'll need to find out the hard way how it works with the customs; aren't there any agents doing this service? also: can't any of those shops *order* the stuff for you? [18:11]
diana_coman: did you ask them? [18:11]
diana_coman: ie fine, they don't have them; can they order for you the list you give them? [18:11]
jfw: diana_coman: will review & ack *all* the points then, right. [18:12]
whaack: diana_coman: I asked bestcomputersa and they said their provider does not supply them anymore [18:12]
diana_coman: (though I have to admit that they sound infuriating already) [18:12]
diana_coman: whaack: as I was saying: infuriating; lolz; I'd say look into ordering from the US, it is what it is. [18:14]
whaack: diana_coman: Yes it is one guy I have spoken with and it is a pain to communicate with him. Apparently he found this extra fx-8350, but he did not tell me until I called. I think I err'd early in the conversation by letting out a sigh and saying that the out of date website cost me a bunch of time. [18:14]
diana_coman: whaack: I don't recall: did you look for/were there any forwarding agents? [18:15]
diana_coman: or was it through one of those that you ordered that test delivery? [18:16]
whaack: diana_coman: I was investigating them, but then when hanbot gave me the list of stores I dropped it and just sent one test package through boxcorreos - the one recommended by locals here. Everything went A+ smooth [18:16]
diana_coman: so then try them further, why not [18:17]
diana_coman: whaack: do investigate if there are others and/or which ones though, not like you can't use a backup option if at all possible. [18:17]
whaack: diana_coman: Heh okay I will send a test package through another service as well. That said if I get 00 worth of equipment jammed in customs through boxcorreos I'm going to be pretty hesitant to try again with another one. [18:19]
diana_coman: whaack: but anyway, the investigation of other agents is task on the list for the future, not like you won't have *other* stuff to order, I'm sure. [18:19]
diana_coman: well, if you get it jammed, you unjam it, no? [18:20]
diana_coman: and that doesn't quite parse/make sense there: so if those fail, you won't try ....others? why/how? [18:21]
whaack: diana_coman: I have a bad experience of going to Guatemala for a local artist to pick up four bags of Flor De Madera, a wood that is distorted through fungal growth. The customs agents took all four bags and torched the wood because we didn't have a paper saying that it was treated. [18:22]
diana_coman: whaack: you know, those test packages might also not test all that much because different stuff, significantly different value from what I understand so ...it's a very basic test, more along the lines of "do they actually do this thing *at all*"? I can see why even that needs testing, sure, but I wouldn't then take it to mean too much if they passed that. [18:23]
diana_coman: whaack: from what I understood, Guatemala is shitty beyond definition ; I can hardly picture ticos torching anything really,lol [18:23]
whaack: diana_coman: that is so re Guatemala being complete shit [18:24]
diana_coman: not to mention that computer parts are hopefully not distorted through fungal growth so maybe there's a bit less to treated or not treated papers, lolz. [18:25]
diana_coman: whaack: if you must, I suppose you can simply order them in batches but not really sure it's worth it really [18:25]
diana_coman: up to you that part [18:26]
whaack: diana_coman: mk. I think I would do it in one go. I am only ordering three parts (video card / motherboard / processor) [18:27]
whaack: at least for now [18:28]
diana_coman: whaack: all right. [18:29]
BingoBoingo: whaack: BioGoop(TM)(R) tends to be what really puts customs agents on alert [18:30]
diana_coman: whaack: what was the mk for, anyway? [18:30]
BingoBoingo: It's the stuff that they get hit hard on when it passes through. Stuff like mysteryexoticwood in the world of border guards is how supertermites and crop blights spread [18:31]
whaack: diana_coman: Ah it was to acknowledge the suggestion of ordering them in batches. Maybe I am using mk incorrectly [18:32]
diana_coman: whaack: mk!=ok ; mk ~= I don't quite agree but I won't argue/explain now. [18:33]
diana_coman: do not copy without knowing what you're copying, ugh. [18:34]
whaack: I guess I had a notion of that, because that is tangent with what I was trying to say. I.e. I acknowledge the suggestion..but I also don't think it's worth it [18:34]
diana_coman: except if it's "I also", there's no mk, lolz. [18:35]
diana_coman: it's just plain ok ie you agree there, what [18:36]
diana_coman: anyways, not a huge thing now. [18:36]
whaack: lol okay I am not completely unaware of the "mk" I just understand it means different things in different contexts and also based on tonality if it is actually said out loud. [18:38]
diana_coman: all right, next time link the sound file :P [18:39]
whaack: :) [18:40]
whaack: diana_coman: I have been asked to go surfing together by a different surfpal who I have consistently been turning down. May I go surf with him tomorrow morning? [19:08]
jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Nov-2019#1011237 << well that was a piece of excuse-making huh. I quite expect there is room for us to improve our communications so thank you diana_coman for exposing some instances on my side. [20:39]
ossabot: Logged on 2019-11-23 17:58:58 jfw: we or at least I might be struggling a bit with the more async form [20:39]

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