The Young Hands Club Moving Forwards



March 29th, 2020 by Diana Coman

Started almost 9 months ago1 as an access path to TMSR, my Young Hands Club project has to change moving forwards to carve its place in the new context that includes only the inheritance of a closed down TMSR rather than an active entity of that essence. And so change it will, in some aspects, but note that the core remains exactly as it was, since it's just as valid now as it was at the start and as it will always be: the focus remains on self improvement (and that *means* change) of participants, on doing rather than talking and on growing one's own ability and knowledge at a *sustainable pace* so that the benefits of everything you do *accumulate* over time. In other words and to state it plainly, the focus remains on playing a winner game instead of that other, all too common nowadays loser game.

As to what changes specifically in practice - I'm opening it up more widely at the very basic entry level (e.g. that Hopefuls new category). While I appreciate the DCU coinage, the stark reality is that the entry level is likely to be way more diverse and generally lower than what would warrant such lofty names. Combined with all those bitter past lessons2, this means that there's as yet overall very little point to (and indeed very little capacity to use or actual request for) the sort of very close and personally tailored feedback and support I've been providing so far to all those involved.

I'll maintain such provision and support only for the top level, full members3 and open up that "Hopefuls" category to provide newcomers with more limited access & feedback that still gives them nevertheless the opportunity to get involved, get to know the people and benefit -as much as they can figure out how to- from the support of the existing infrastructure and overall environment (meaning, specifically: #ossasepia as a real-time communications and interactions channel, the WoT as support for building up one's own history and reputation, younghands.club as easy access to blogging, V for code versioning and effective collaboration, the various V trees as code library, the full library of related blogs).

Those two layers - full members and hopefuls - are not meant to be rigid in practice. Full members can choose to leave of course and to the extent that newcomers do figure out how to make use of what is available and build up their own personal reputation and history of interaction, they can certainly become full members if they are offered the option and if they see any benefit in taking it.

As before, #ossasepia is open for all productive and useful discussions really, whether you are simply in my WoT or a friend of someone in my WoT or even entirely new to everything. Everyone involved is quite welcome to invite friends4 and to use #ossasepia to communicate and keep in touch with one another, to ask questions or to discuss otherwise any of their own work that they have *published* (on their own blog or on younghands.club, as it may be the case) and note that this is *not* limited to code! Indeed, do note that there are some minimal requirements for any code published to be considered or even discussed at all and note also that you will need an identity in the WoT (a registered key with deedbot) before you can suggest topics of discussion, with code being the most likely to require first some acquired reputation before being given more than a cursory glance. There is already such an abundance of code that nobody really needs *more* of it and especially not from an unknown and unrelated source.

If you want to figure out what things are, how they work and why the difference between those two aspects even matters, if you want to work with others and to build up on existing infrastructure that can support you to get further than if you keep reinventing the wheel every time or if you are looking for meaningful feedback, clarity, effectiveness and confidence based on actual competence and experience, come in and ask for voice, it's as simple as that.

Just mind your step, realise that it's all likely quite different from anything else you've met and known so far and take your time -even better: ask your questions- to understand how it all works, as it all goes deeper than you probably realise at a first glance. It's that depth that can help you too, if you only choose to build on it as the solid foundation that it is and to work together with others instead of isolating yourself on your own and aiming to solve problems that have been solved already. The trouble of course is to know about those solutions - so come to #ossasepia and ask!


  1. How time passes and how this fits yet again exactly the 9 months gestation period and all those obvious and trite observations that one can easily make here. More to the point though: how much did this passing time force wider changes all around you and how prepared are you now for the new context? Did you change yourself quickly enough to find you are adapting easily now or did you hang on to the familiar for its comfort such as it was? And sure, don't even think of answering those questions when you can instead just be angry with me for asking them so plainly, thus being yet again so "aggressive" and "violent" - isn't that the perfect excuse to not change direction, after all? It's fine though either way - those are the type of questions that answer themselves anyway, whether anyone cared enough about you to ask them or not. 

  2. To list a few: what's offered and made available is disregarded, undervalued and unused or barely used; asking for something (or even just... helping/clarifying questions, at times!) is taken as an imposition and/or a request for "free work" rather than the opportunity and opening it represents; exam-taking and superficial form-fitting without regards to the essence of what was specified/required renders any attempt to specify tasks an exercise in wasted effort. 

  3. The current list reads: Aaron Rogier, Eric Benevides, Jacob Welsh, Robinson Dorion and Will Haack. So please let me know either in #ossasepia or in the comments below, if you'd rather move out of it now, there's no problem from my point of view either way, at this juncture. 

  4. I'll give one chance to speak to anybody who asks for it; for how long they retain the priviledge to speak in chan depends on how and for what they use that chance, of course. 

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7 Responses to “The Young Hands Club Moving Forwards”

  1. Jacob Welsh says:

    Among the bitter lessons noted here, the conclusion I'm having most trouble following - or might we say, that I'm most innocent to, in that I haven't knowingly witnessed it, whether or not I was involved - is the "exam-taking and superficial form-fitting without regards to the essence of what was specified/required renders any attempt to specify tasks an exercise in wasted effort".

    By analogy - and as is the trouble with reasoning by analogy, one must judge to what degree it fits - the fact that expecting computers to "do what I mean" doesn't really work, does not imply that learning to direct them more precisely is a waste.

    I suspect it's some philosophical points about essences or specification that I'm missing here, and I recall the "job board" link from your last review touching on this lesson in particular, so I can start there. Do you have pointers or examples otherwise?

  2. Aaron Rogier says:

    I find the new direction you've outlined prudent, and I'd like to continue.

    The end of TMSR left a bigger hole than I initially saw, felt, or realized. The coinciding doom that arrived via the fiat system's impromptu "who can out authoritarian who contest" also has come to outgrow what I had expected.

    Thank you for continuing to cultivate a space to see if people can grow.

  3. Diana Coman says:

    @Jacob It is indeed the deeper one (they are listed in that order in my footnote).

    The job board article linked from my review is indeed the best start for it on the theoretical side. On the practical side... if you don't see it when it's happening, you'd need a dissected example rather than just a pointer, wouldn't you? Fwiw though, I'll say this much - as far as I can see, you are indeed quite innocent of this (what trips you up at times is not the lack of aiming for what is required as opposed to the minimum the wording may be interpreted for but previous lack of feedback /requirements at similar levels and that gets sorted out quite quickly in the right environment).

    There isn't much at all that I can see for the analogy you are trying to make there, unless you are perhaps pushing exactly the point that current people are quite as machine-like as computers - are you?

    @Aaron All right, I'll take it you'd rather continue with the current level of involvement, for what that does.

  4. Jacob Welsh says:

    you'd need a dissected example rather than just a pointer, wouldn't you?

    That would help all the more, surely; though I thought I might see more of something just from a fresh look.

    unless you are perhaps pushing exactly the point that current people are quite as machine-like as computers - are you?

    Ha! Perhaps inadvertently.

    Thanks for clarifying re feedback.

  5. Thank you for clarifying the path forward. The new structure makes sense. I will continue as a full member.

    More to the point though: how much did this passing time force wider changes all around you and how prepared are you now for the new context? Did you change yourself quickly enough to find you are adapting easily now or did you hang on to the familiar for its comfort such as it was?

    I didn't change myself as quickly as I could have in the 9 months or prior, the challenge/opportunity now is to learn the lesson and change faster/smarter in the new context. I'm not angry at all at the questions and they're in fact a big part of why I applied in the first place.

    What makes me angry is not liking my answers to the questions at present.

    Regarding the bitter lessons in footnote 2, "what's offered and made available is disregarded, undervalued and unused or barely used;" seems to me where I could improve the most.

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