| lobbes: | diana_coman: just to stay honest: I have technically missed my deadline for the Gales install. I was aiming to have it complete tonight, but I will instead complete tomorrow. | [00:17] |
| lobbes: | I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [00:18] |
| lobbes: | off to sleep. Will be at terminal bright n' early | [00:18] |
| jfw: | nifty lobbes. | [00:31] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013850 - also to voice others if I'm not mistaken; such privilege! | [00:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 09:51:56 whaack: diana_coman: No I had the idea that I did not have the right to speak in #trilema, but I will use my common sense going forward. | [00:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:50:49 jfw: diana_coman: I'm wondering what to do for a travel key, thinking it unwise to carry my main one into the Zone, in light of http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/ . One thing I learned from that is apparently I could have been giving dorion_road his !!ups all this time - I hadn't realized! | [00:33] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013871 - certainly a documentation TODO, but safe to skip as dorion_road said. Since for better or worse the gports system works by producing intermediate package files, I figured there'd better be a way to sign & verify them. The step in question is for if you want to include a public key for that in install media. | [00:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 09:36:52 bvt: I have a question to the BUILD document: what does 'Install package signing key(s) in installer/ and update installer/initramfs.list.sh' refer to? is it a TODO item or something i am supposed to do? | [00:55] |
| jfw: | bvt: thanks for the testing and writeup too and I will follow up in comments there. | [00:57] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013885 - noted re Popper recommendation, ty diana_coman | [00:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 13:09:49 diana_coman: for that matter the recommendation holds for anyone else interested ( whaack jfw shrysr ?) | [00:58] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013900 - nice, applied it. | [01:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 18:59:12 whaack: I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [01:00] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm not seeing any chance of finishing catchup Sunday; that would be the main snowballing mentioned earlier. For updated ETA, I'm not sure, maybe I should be checking word counts and such; for now I'll say Tuesday | [02:20] |
| jfw: | to bed | [02:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014918 - good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though? | [04:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:18:01 lobbes: I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so what happened there exactly, did you just spin on the writing or what? | [04:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, such cliffhanger! lolz! | [04:55] |
| diana_coman: | how about talking about it, maybe it would get you unstuck faster, you know? | [04:56] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014946 << I just started way too late in the week really. Early this week was heavy work with the saltmines, and when I got home I was loathing climbing back in front of a monitor again. Didn't really get going until Friday save some misc researching/reading here and there. | [12:13] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 08:45:34 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014918 - good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though? | [12:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:18:01 lobbes: I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [12:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I suppose there's no denying there was quite a bit of spinning. Also I think a kind of numbness to the urgency of getting it done & moving on. Definitely a return to old habit / comfort zone of lounging around pondering things in silence | [12:49] |
| jfw: | lolz, I tried everything except talking about it. Sat at keyboard, lounged on couch, re-read notes, went for walk, listened to some music, wrote whatever random thoughts or possible sentences, wrote sorta-outline | [12:52] |
| dorion: | lobbes thanks for the updates, glad you're making progress. one point I'll alert you on is when you get to partitioning the disk with the installer, double check which /dev/sdX is the install media and which is the internal, target disk. | [12:57] |
| jfw: | I'll have to spoil the cliffhanger to give better context: the bigger part of the thoughts that were hitting me on Wednesday were concerning family & especially parents: history, how things have developed, what's good, what's lacking, what I want there, what's possible, what I can do. | [12:57] |
| dorion: | lobbes I've fdisk'd /dev/sda assuming it was the internal disk in the past and ended up nuking the installer. not the end of the world since you can boot back to the build env and reinstall the install media, but check dmesg on the installer to be sure which is which. | [13:00] |
| jfw: | ty for pointing that out dorion: unless you use one of the uuid type schemes for disk naming, you get whatever order the BIOS / kernel enumerate, which indeed means sda is probably the install media if you're booting from usb. Then lilo.conf might need to be fixed up accordingly. | [13:03] |
| jfw: | ah, this is noted in the example lilo.conf as to why it doesn't include the boot= line so the directions should be fine on that score, but yes caution needed with fdisk/mkfs. | [13:07] |
| jfw: | Sadly the install process is way less explained than the build, so do ask if in doubt. | [13:11] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: btw, I hadn't particularly discussed my tmsr readings or submission here with parents previously. I had pretty much given up discussing politics or philosophy with them based on the results of past attempts; though I find myself cautiously open to reconsidering, as we've all changed at least somewhat since then | [13:31] |
| jfw: | They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [13:35] |
| jfw: | quite as I predicted there was allergic reaction to the qntraflag by my mom, the staunch Lincoln admirer | [13:37] |
| jfw: | I left it at "BingoBoingo likes to use it because the crowd says he can't" | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: There's also the fact that the bunny is black, though iirc cazalla ate him at some point. | [13:41] |
| dorion: | lol, fuck Lincoln. | [13:41] |
| jfw: | anyway the subject matter & readership does add to my perceived importance of writing the Right Thing | [13:41] |
| jfw: | haha, if we get dorion over for dinner it could get quite interesting | [13:42] |
| dorion: | likes to eat rabbit, tastes best when shot with own hands. | [13:42] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: the bunny has a sort of rebellious glare to him, now that I look full-size | [13:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Here there is quite a bit of gigantism going on in the farmed meat breeds. Well over 1.5 kilos dressed and cleaned for sale isn't uncommon. | [13:45] |
| dorion: | i'll never forget first encounter with larouche peeps. they were posted up in front of post office on long island with end the fed signs in 2011. I say, "hmm, what's this about." they hand me fdr (FDR !!!) propaganda. | [13:45] |
| jfw: | yeah their problem with the fed was its restraint, lolz. | [13:47] |
| jfw: | my folks are now ex-larouchies fwiw; what drew them to him remains, but there is perhaps more leeway for independent thought, or speech at any rate. | [13:51] |
| lobbes: | dorion: ty for the heads up on the fdisk step. I didn't know about dmesg so I will be sure to check its output | [13:56] |
| dorion: | lobbes cool, dmesg is a good friend to have :) | [13:57] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/12/wh-review-of-week-13-jan-6th-jan-12th/ << Young Hands Club -- WH Review of Week 13 (Jan 6th - Jan 12th) | [14:02] |
| jfw: | come to think of it, the "problem with the fed was its restraint" quip isn't technically accurate. The issue was more about what the printolade gets spent on; they wanted the emphasis on big infrastructure projects, Science, Education, space programs and such. | [14:14] |
| jfw: | ...domestic manufacturing, "the physical economy". Inflation was understood as a monetary phenomenon iirc. | [14:16] |
| jfw: | But back to the subject of me, a main headwind I'm seeing against potential family-of-origin bliss is the militant ignorance that sometimes pops up | [14:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 14:48:28 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013922 - this is militant ignorance speaking; the fact that it's not "interesting to you" means simply that you are totally clueless atm; it is *important* and therefore you should *get interested*, not derp about that oh noez, not interesting to me atm, as if you were some measure of interestingness in this world. | [14:23] |
| jfw: | e.g. regarding Bitcoin, which I must have first talked to them about in 2012. Son devoting substantial activity to it, 1000x price appreciation since then, 11 yrs history, still not a priority to learn about? | [14:25] |
| dorion: | jfw as you know, I've been there. only you can decide how much disinterest / militant ignorance is tolerable. and what are the opportunity costs to tolerating. | [14:30] |
| dorion: | jfw http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-16-Oct-2019#1006570 | [14:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 16:41:06 diana_coman: jfw: for a core principle of mine (and I'd say not only mine but I don't really talk for others): focus on figuring things out for what they are rather than for what you'd want them to be/ find convenient to be | [14:33] |
| jfw: | a twist is that a couple years ago I mighta found it convenient to view them entirely as recalcitrant ignoramuses that I could safely tune out; while the reality is messier. We were able to connect in some ways. I enjoyed being in their company. We resonate on at least some of the frequencies. They have all sorts of knowledge, hard for | [14:49] |
| jfw: | me to judge how practical, and some modicum of usgtronic assets that I'd rather not see go up in smoke. | [14:49] |
| dorion: | jfw I didn't mean to imply it's simple or you ought to do one thing or another other than lay your cards on the table and be as honest as possible with them, see how they take it and let the chips fall where they may. e.g. in their company did you share with them your disappointment of their relative disinterest in what ~you~ think is of vital importance and hence what you've been dedicating your | [14:54] |
| dorion: | life to ? | [14:54] |
| jfw: | re assets, "the system is fragile" argument turns out not to get far with folks who accepted that and believed "crash just around the corner" since at least '73! The attitude now is, could still last a long time and nothing to be done about it anyway | [14:55] |
| jfw: | dorion: thanks, and starting to talk about it more publicly is a big step I think. | [14:56] |
| dorion: | jfw o fo sho | [14:59] |
| jfw: | I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [15:00] |
| jfw: | I (re)learned that my dad struggles with this avoidance/reticence too and even less so than his own father before (who I never knew); and that their wives helped balance this | [15:05] |
| jfw: | helped & help, rather! | [15:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Personally I don't much buy the "system is fragile" line anymore with respect to the US. The collapse up there is already well underway. | [15:06] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: certainly with respect to BTC; are there other yardsticks you'd point to? | [15:08] |
| dorion: | jfw folks thinking it's acceptable to walk outside in pajamas, lol. | [15:10] |
| jfw: | well I'm sure there are, based on your reporting; perhaps a more specific (perhaps difficult) question would be - which do you figure are most (a) meaningful or (b) perceptible in daily life? | [15:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Price of staple foods is a good start. Price of anything made of linen or wool another point. If you want a stong example, as of December 2019 when was the last time US troops were proudly fired upon by a state actor waving its flag? Compare the December 2019 answer to the January 2020 answers. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was there something you wanted to discuss today? | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | is catching up with the #o log, what a nice surprise for once. | [15:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Prices of furniture and other artifacts made of solid wood may be another point along with clothing to press the debasement of just about everything. | [15:13] |
| jfw: | hi diana_coman! looks like most of the points for my article ended up here. | [15:13] |
| jfw: | interesting angles BingoBoingo | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: This is a good starting point for the debasement line http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/ | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I already had this image of you smoking a good old pipe to ponder the depths in silence while the dark and smoke creep around but now you really cemented it! | [15:14] |
| dorion: | if only he dared to smoke, heh. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | well, it depends what one smokes, lol. | [15:16] |
| jfw: | ha! no pipe but some Ouzo was sipped | [15:16] |
| dorion: | "why would I want to inhale combusted plant material ?" | [15:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: This is a great companion to the inflation piece http://trilema.com/2014/the-bezzle-usd-and-the-tide-usd/ | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | well, why inhale recycled airs of others, you know? | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what /why clicked on Wednesday? | [15:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 12:57:56 jfw: I'll have to spoil the cliffhanger to give better context: the bigger part of the thoughts that were hitting me on Wednesday were concerning family & especially parents: history, how things have developed, what's good, what's lacking, what I want there, what's possible, what I can do. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014950 - bewildering things going on in #o? where, where? what did I miss? lolz. | [15:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:35:32 jfw: They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | but I know the reaction, yes; still, everyone is entitled to their reaction, whatever it might be, what. | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014955 - what do you mean here? | [15:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:41:22 jfw: anyway the subject matter & readership does add to my perceived importance of writing the Right Thing | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014957 - cher monsieur Dorion, le gibier manque. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:42:24 dorion: likes to eat rabbit, tastes best when shot with own hands. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-20 16:30:25 diana_coman: and maybe you do write this year that hunting thing too or you'll start 2020 with an audio article le gibier manque et les femmes sont rares | [15:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I had nothing specific to discuss for today. I'm just going to keep working through this build/install and then get that writeup done. I'll get my plan and review out as well | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: sounds good. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014974 - why do you need to swing between the extremes there? | [15:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:49:22 jfw: a twist is that a couple years ago I mighta found it convenient to view them entirely as recalcitrant ignoramuses that I could safely tune out; while the reality is messier. We were able to connect in some ways. I enjoyed being in their company. We resonate on at least some of the frequencies. They have all sorts of knowledge, hard for | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014976 - this is btw perfectly sane, yes. | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:54:52 dorion: jfw I didn't mean to imply it's simple or you ought to do one thing or another other than lay your cards on the table and be as honest as possible with them, see how they take it and let the chips fall where they may. e.g. in their company did you share with them your disappointment of their relative disinterest in what ~you~ think is of vital importance and hence what you've been dedicating your | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014981 - oh, thanks! (and if you ever want *more* of that, just make sure to annoy me thoroughly!) | [15:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:00:53 jfw: I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the cut-right-to-the-point question for you is what do you actually want from them? | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | I'm all caught up with the logs here so do speak. | [15:33] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014994 looks quite as valuable from standpoint of the notion of progress as inflation itself. | [15:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:14:57 BingoBoingo: jfw: This is a good starting point for the debasement line http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/ | [15:34] |
| jfw: | alright diana_coman | [15:34] |
| jfw: | why Wednesday - perhaps partly background thinking coming together over time, but there were some stimuli from the sequence of things I was reading too | [15:36] |
| jfw: | ah, one I didn't mention - http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-03-16#1628151 in the course of research for http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/errata-for-gbw-node-drafts-to-date-and-bitcoin-txid-collisions/ | [15:38] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-03-16 asciilifeform: btw this thread is unpleasantly reminiscent of , e.g., asciilifeform's conversations with his elderly parents , re thebezzle. 'look outside, sky not fallen, not moved a centimetre, you idiot' | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: let me ask this a different way: why is it important to you that your parents see this? | [15:40] |
| jfw: | hm, I don't think I mind what they do or don't see in itself, but as they probably will see what I publish, I get the same kind of hesitation of speaking directly that I do in person | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014971 - dorion, was this what triggered your break from your parents? | [15:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:30:11 dorion: jfw as you know, I've been there. only you can decide how much disinterest / militant ignorance is tolerable. and what are the opportunity costs to tolerating. | [15:44] |
| jfw: | is that clarifying if still stupid? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not fully answering yet that "why is it important to you"? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | so they will see what you publish, sure; they will have one reaction or another, as they see fit, sure; you can't control their reaction anyway, nor should you; you might even predict it though if you understand them well enough for that, sure; nevertheless: why is that important to you? | [15:46] |
| jfw: | hm, not sure I follow the question then. Important to me that they see what specifically? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | and to qualify it properly: why is it more important to you than speaking your truth as you understand it? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, that was ambiguous in my question - I meant why is it important to you that they see things as you do on this matter (or on any really). | [15:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it was. for how much stefan molyneux has been ripped on recently, his words gave me the insight and courage to bring the honesty, evaulate the response and act accordingly. I was 24 when I did it. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: fwiw I will forever remember 2 weeks of ~no sleep when I was 23. They cured me entirely of my parents though and I still think it's called being an adult. | [15:49] |
| jfw: | still here, that definitely clarifies the question, thinking | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | but you know, none of it had anything to do with "be young again" and that's pretty much what both of you, dorion and jfw seem to ask of your parents there. Why? | [15:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't want them to be young again, it was more, "hey, these are issues I'm dealing with that are rooted in my childhood, can we honestly talk about them ?" the response kept coming back as self-justification and disinterest. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ah, that seems a different thing than what jfw is saying though. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | well what comes to mind is, if someone doesn't at least show capacity to consider an argument - and I don't mean to say they don't, just that it's a struggle on some topics - then it's discouraging to speak honestly about it | [15:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that is different than what he's talking about and that was the fundamental part; there was also the part that there would have been way more interest in what I was doing if what I was doing was sportsball. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, I can see it if you say "it's not worth it trying to have this conversation with them" but I don't see in any way how is it discouraging to speak honestly (and esp. the link to honesty, how??) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: heh, to cite my mom : "why do you have to be so DIFFERENT from us???" | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [15:59] |
| jfw: | hrm, I agree, 'openly' is more the word I was looking for | [16:01] |
| whaack: | has been following this thread with interest. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, re holidays-with-mum, that was your choice of holidays, not mine, you know? | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you consider the writing on your blog as having a conversation with your parents? | [16:02] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not really, though conversation may follow | [16:03] |
| whaack: | My attitude towards my parents is something along the lines of ~ "I am thankful for you educating me enough to be able to know the various ways you fucked up." | [16:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman dad, "I don't want you to become a fanatic." (re economics/politics) also dad, "I'm an XYZ fan, I bleed rainbow." | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sure, anything *may follow*; why is that on your mind while writing though? | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahaha; people see what they know best, of course. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lmao; that's such a polite way to say fuck you. | [16:05] |
| dorion: | whaack hey, that's approx what I told them too. "I think you've done better than your parents, in particular because I'm having this conversation with you, this is me furthering the process." | [16:05] |
| dorion: | "I can't appreciate the sunshine without reconginzing there was plenty thunder and lightning." | [16:06] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I don't know why on my mind. It seems like a kind of acting towards purpose. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack, dorion the important part is whether you've made your peace with it all so that it's fully behind you rather than tripping you over unexpectedly as it seems to have happened now a bit with jfw | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that in part with an added side of "their reaction matters strongly to me" | [16:08] |
| jfw: | I suppose in childhood I had to be sensitive to their reactions; but now there's no reason it should matter strongly | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | there was never any problem with their saying/expectations/opinions/whatevers; the only problem (and that one that kept me awake & beyond miserable for 2 weeks) was fully and entirely my own, of course, as it ever is. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha of course I know that it was my choice. and lol yup, that's the jist! There is more resentment towards dad than mom, my dad is a professional bridge player which signals to me he has some cognitive ability that he never applied. My mom worked hard to raise me, but I think her development suffered b.c. she was pretty when younger and thus was [http://trilema.com/2019/why-the-females-of-any-sexuate-species-are-necess | [16:11] |
| whaack: | arily-going-to-be-lazy-stupid-and-annoying/][insulated from improvement] | [16:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I took a two year break and invited them back in after I observed meaningful positive change. it's not perfect today, nor do I expect it to be (I have a lot of work to do myself as has been well documented), but we're moving in the right direction. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what is this right direction? | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so they were this and that; so... what? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | resentment is just another form of "not over it" really. | [16:15] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that what needs to be said can be said and is heard without triggering an emotional outburst. | [16:19] |
| dorion: | lobbes comment in your mod queue. | [16:19] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: if I may ask, what was that only problem that kept you up those two weeks? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it is what it is, I have told them both what I thought in direct words. Mom took it well, dad stopped talking to me. (He would like to / tries talk to me about mundane shit, but I have unanswered questions that I restate when he tries to communicate, and he is unable to bring himself to answer them.) I have settled with a take care of mom and squeeze-dad-for-every-penny attitude. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you are taking on your own shoulders quite a lot there though, to get them over their own emotional outbursts. | [16:21] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: recalling http://ossasepia.com/2019/10/21/and-i-wont-save-you-from-the-rats/ , sounds like a good thing you were so DIFFERENT! | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: my own want to keep both them and myself happy; it was impossibly, it took me that time to figure out such a simple thing and decide which part matters and which one doesn't really. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | impossible* | [16:23] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think I helped foster the environment where they could process, e.g. being absent and recommending they seek therapy to talk with a pro about it all. plus, my father is a manager and through that he's received a lot of training to help process stress more rationally. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't know, fwiw I take mine for exactly what they are and don't feel any need to ask them for anything more than that really; I don't have neither specific expectations nor requests really. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: at significant cost to you. | [16:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman sure. it was costing me more to hang around and self-censor, a form of suicide as I saw it. | [16:30] |
| dorion: | I'm going to step away for a couple hours, will be back later tonight EST. thanks everyone for the convo ! | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: as long as it's not an ongoing cost. | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have any expectations from them. My dad just likes to be used, for example he has a dependopotamus woman living with him that he's been "trying to kick out" for over 2 years. From a cold, rational standpoint I think it's smart to try and ask him for money, etc. If he can't prevent people from using him, he may prefer to be used by his son. I think it's within my right to try, but I don't dedicate much time to t | [16:37] |
| whaack: | his nor do I expect to gain anything. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: makes sense that recognizing an impossibility of keeping both happy would take some doing; and does sound like being an adult indeed. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what is the significant cost you refer to re dorion? perhaps clear to him but not quite to me | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, I can see your point there; do note also that... hm, while he is your father, you are also your father's son, hm? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: he's possibly the best one to ask that question though, isn't he? | [16:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: oh i am aware. that is what makes some of my dislike towards him visceral. i can see some of the worst of myself in him. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so why hate the live warning? | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | not like there's anyone perfect, you know? if it wasn't that, it would have been some other "worst of yourself", what. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah, that question gives a nice way to think of him. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | look at him and learn from it; work on yourself and do the best instead of the worst, that's all. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it had occurred to me the two of you might not be referring to the same cost, but not sure if this holds on the re-read. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I think we are referring to the same cost really but I won't answer a question that is really his if he wants to answer it or not. | [16:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha okay I will stop shutting my eyes to him. maybe my avoidance of my dad has been from a ~ "holllllly shit --- THAT's my destiny?" fear. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly; but there's no such thing as "you'll be your father" mainly because - whatever similarities there might be in the genetic makeup - you still are not your father, obviously. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: unrelated, re car, did you sort out fully the house? because the computer is still not built and running anyway. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean sort out fully the house? | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no more stupid problems tolerated around, for starters. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | iirc there was the electrics to look into, last thing. | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The electrics have no grounding wire, but it has not been solved. The other problem is there is an animal that lives on the roof that occasionally invites a girlfriend over at night and makes a fucking racket. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: has talking helped at all? | [17:03] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: helped quite a lot. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | still gotta write the article though, heh. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | and you know, it's there whenever you need it. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | yep | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | talk will stil not do the writing for you, no, it has this downside indeed. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/thoughts-on-shrysr-leaving-younghands-and-asciilifeforms-excommunication/#comment-148 - what's with that "having been the "psychologically dependent" in more than one codependent relationship in my life." ? | [17:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so one surfpal last year in Tamarindo, a tico, moved in with me. I had a nice apartment and we partied for months straight. I let him get away with not paying any rent for ~2.5 months, and I was also paying for the weed we both smoked. I became what I consider "psychologically dependent" not only because I enjoyed his company but also because he constantly invited over girls and guys from all over the world he met in t | [17:24] |
| whaack: | own+surfing. So my social network was being built all through this one heavy node. One day I was invited to a party by some of our mutual friends and I asked "ah is surfpal coming?" They bluntly told me that no, he wasn't invited, and asked why I felt the need to even to ask. Then I had an epiphany of how much I was depending on this guy to make friends and how I was being played for rent. What stuck out to me was that I was concer | [17:24] |
| whaack: | ned about how he would feel if I went to a party without him. | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, a sort of male dependopopotamus?? | [17:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: similar, but it was more of an unstated trade deal where he would do the work to meet friends / pickup girls for me instead of paying rent. he also drove me everywhere surfing. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | well, everything is always an unstated trade deal like that, sure. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you used the plural in that comment though so the above is 1; the rest? | [17:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. the main problem wasn't that part. it was the ~ "what will surfpal think if I go to a party without him?" attitude I started to develop | [17:38] |
| whaack: | typing up the second one | [17:38] |
| whaack: | (sorry one sec, someone came to the door) | [17:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The second one, about five years earlier, was a relationship I had with an ~alcoholic in college. There was no financial imbalance in this relationship (or it was in the other direction, she was a wealthy Wellesley student. - Wellesley is an all girls college 1hr away from MIT, and they have a shuttle that went back and fourth between the two schools.) This relationship was more of a _co_dependency, we were both enabl | [17:57] |
| whaack: | ing avoidance behavior / bad habits. ) I was a freshman and she was a junior, and while I was not a virgin, she was much more sexually experienced than me. I found her unbearable half the time she was sober, and pleasant while drunk. So given these two things, I was happy to enable her drinking (and get drunk myself) and hook up with her. We would spend copious amounts of time during school getting drunk, hooking up, and watching ~ | [17:57] |
| whaack: | netflix. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | apparently that's what school teaches, lol. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if there are more of those, just write them down in one article and be done with it. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright | [18:03] |
| whaack: | and yeah, that fate was not unique to me by any means. I was lucky we didn't get along well - otherwise the draining dissonant resonance may have gone for longer than it did (~1.5 years) | [18:13] |
| whaack: | stepping out for a bit, gn diana_coman and ty for the advice esp. re seeing dad as "live warning" | [18:14] |
| new_yh: | f ... | [22:27] |
| dorion: | hello new_yh 6 , how goes and what brings you here ? | [22:35] |
| dorion: | is that a pipe in your name ? | [22:35] |
| new_yh: | f Hey, what's up! | [22:37] |
| new_yh: | f What pipe are you talking about? | [22:37] |
| new_yh: | f I had a question to ask here, but... | [22:38] |
| new_yh: | f I forgot what it was. | [22:38] |
| dorion: | the character between the h and 6 looks like , char 124 in ascii , aka pipe. | [22:40] |
| dorion: | why don't you share about yourself and maybe the question comes back to memory ? | [22:41] |
| new_yh: | f That pipe was unintentional. This username was randomly generated. | [22:43] |
| dorion: | oic | [22:44] |
| new_yh: | f I'm 18yrs old. I've got time on my hands. I'm lost in life, looking for some clarity. | [22:44] |
| new_yh: | f Social skills are a little rusty. I blame my existential crisis. Excuse the shoddy lingo. | [22:45] |
| new_yh: | f Hmm... Nothing comes to mind. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f I think it was a question about Eulora or something... | [22:46] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 well, this ain't the worst place to end up in your search for clarity. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f Good to know. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f Have any other "lost souls" turned up here before? | [22:47] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 this is a good place to ask about Eulora , diana_coman owns this channel and is CTO. | [22:49] |
| dorion: | there is also #eulora. | [22:50] |
| dorion: | but new_yh 6 if you want proper help, best to get yourself a name you actually want and register an RSA key with deedbot. the latter gives people confidence they're actually talking to you. | [22:51] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 did you read younghands.club yet ? | [22:52] |
| new_yh: | f dorion, Yeah, I've been to the site. | [22:54] |
| new_yh: | f I found my way here from a link on that site | [22:55] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 nice. here's a guide to setting up a RSA key and registering with deedbot : http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup | [22:56] |
| new_yh: | f Cool. Thanks | [22:57] |
| new_yh: | f I gotta eat. Brb | [22:57] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 aok. and about clarity, in my experience this is one of the ~better~ places to get it. | [22:58] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6!68f4e76c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.244.231.108 quits [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] << Digicel Jamaica. Right near da beach, boy ! | [23:32] |
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