| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009011 - I've been had | [00:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 18:18:20 whaack: jfw: heh man i can't tell did you think i was serious re dual boot? no, i currently plan to run cuntoo. i am curious though, what hardware items make a computer more pure? | [00:30] |
| dorion: | lol | [00:32] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008820 << glad to hear that works for you and looking forward to it ! did it occur you had trained people to expect otherwise ? | [00:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:31:47 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-05#1008814 << ftr he's scheduled for fri. 1530 new york. (and i wish moar people would work like this, for some reason nobody but dorion ever asked.) | [00:35] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:55:14 diana_coman: it will probably be quite hard to pin him down for a conversation as such but you can still budget your time on this overall even if it ends up as 5 minutes today and 5 tomorrow; the important thing is overall to have a clear stop somewhere because otherwise it will just drag on. | [00:35] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-05 asciilifeform: dorion: ok, friday 1530-1600 nyc time. | [00:35] |
| jfw: | so re pure, coreboot is a start, but many boards they only support by means of vendor blobs. Another thing is DDR2 memory, as anything later is widely susceptible to 'rowhammer' (now an open secret but believe I first learned this from asciilifeform). | [00:37] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (146h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [03:05] |
| auctionbot: | --- end of auction list, 10mn total bids --- | [03:05] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009019 - in here for mats please. | [03:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 18:44:21 dorion: and on the mangled hands thread, I have a link that may help mats ; diana_coman ought I add it here or reply to the thread it #t ? | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009022 - heh, whatever you neglect will come back to bite you exactly when you have least time for it. | [03:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 21:00:45 lobbes: diana_coman: next up for me, I think, after I get mp-wp bot settled is to get the auction house in better shape. I've been neglecting things like proper auto-invoicing and the damn price history that I let die. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1009024 - good point; still, he needs to build first a desktop since he never ever did such a thing; the rackables can wait. | [03:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 21:07:14 BingoBoingo: whaack: Also consider that rackmount machines make fine desk/computers if you don't need heavy graphics rendering abilities. | [03:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/11/verifying-my-understanding/comment-page-1/#comment-80 | [04:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eulora is a masterclass in economy mascarading as a videogame; that'd be as close to a "full description" as it gets. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw dorion re bidding on the auction, you can do it either here on in #t , it's up to you (bot will take your bid either way). | [04:15] |
| diana_coman: | you might want to set an autobid too for that matter, see the help page | [04:15] |
| bvt: | jfw: is gales linux fully self-bootstrapping (has packages for gcc&etc., with all static libs installed)? what about python? iirc statically linking it can be a trouble because lots of python modules dlopen, and i really expect the same for x11 | [04:20] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=10mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (141h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [08:05] |
| auctionbot: | --- end of auction list, 10mn total bids --- | [08:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. I saw your comment and had a response floating in my head that I did write, I will reply shortly | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ack more timely; it's fine to say you need some time to reflect but say it + give an eta for reflection's output, don't just leave it hanging like that, basic manners. | [09:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: understood | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: huh, no autobid? | [10:02] |
| whaack: | from out my window it looks like the wind, swell, and tide have aligned. gonna brb for 2 hours | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, enjoy! | [10:09] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: no autobid (still :/). This is also on my list of neglected items to tackle next. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what's eating your time that much though? | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I pointed that out because, there are going to be more rackables hitting the auction block in the very near future. | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | and he's not even far away from them ie easier to get them delivered, huh; good point. | [10:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | The only downside they have to being made into desk/Computers is the incredible fan noise | [10:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | And no, not that far either. He's gotta get to Panama City's Airport and then Montevideo is only 8-ish hours away via Copa airlines | [10:55] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: presumably they can be sent by courier too, can't they? | [10:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: There's two ways they could be shipped. One is that I haven't tested them to see if they work, I put a value on the export paper with fedex under 200 USD because the machine's functonality is uncertain. They other way is I test the machine, declare a reasonable market value, pay a Dispachante de Aduanas ~350 to do export paperwork, and that... makes shipping a roughly ~700 USD affair per machine. | [11:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | The magic paper is ~1/2 the total courier expense | [11:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | For much of the world, big suitcases and a bit of tourism is the economical option. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | ugh. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | good to know at least. | [11:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | The world customs information sharing system however appears to value FUCKGOATS with a very low dollar value as per the paperwork the ben_vulpes expedition left behind. | [11:03] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008832 << perhaps process is more correct than structure, but what I mean is does Latin define words using negative space ala Greek ? | [11:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:36:10 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008803 - sneakin' but right at least, can't complain there; what do you mean by does Latin have the structure? | [11:05] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 16:52:33 diana_coman: dorion: more like how the chair is *defined* as a result of taking things away from the whole ; as opposed to "positive" definition of the more usual sort "this chair is 4 wooden legs and one wooden plank" | [11:05] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-06#1009056 << the usual pretense was eating my time in the past | [11:06] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 14:45:17 diana_coman: lobbes: what's eating your time that much though? | [11:06] |
| lobbes: | the last month and change was getting the mp-wp bot built (+ saltmines and other private sphere things related to getting my internal (and external!) house in order) | [11:06] |
| lobbes: | (sure, in retrospect I perhaps should have had a kitchen built *before* offering omelettes for sale on the menu. Still I have no regrets) | [11:06] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-10-09 mp_en_viaje: "sure, most people specializing in serving breakfast for a fee can produce omlets in about ten minutes. but they start with a ready kitchen, which already contains eg eggs" | [11:06] |
| lobbes: | bbl, to mines | [11:07] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-11-06#1009034 << ddr3+, ftr. | [11:15] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 04:32:16 jfw: so re pure, coreboot is a start, but many boards they only support by means of vendor blobs. Another thing is DDR2 memory, as anything later is widely susceptible to 'rowhammer' (now an open secret but believe I first learned this from asciilifeform). | [11:15] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008850 << we do not; the thinkpads are very much a scrap market ; we'll need to expand to more options, laptops and desktops. the one upside of the thinkpads is they're relatively well designed and certain replacement parts, such as battery and kbd, are available. | [11:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 15:51:28 diana_coman: jfw: do you have certainty re supply there esp since older model? | [11:29] |
| dorion: | (not sure if I'm out of line there since the question wasn't addressed to me, but assumed he merely overlooked it given the outpour he was engaged in and decided to follow up in chan rather than nudge in pm) | [11:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008868 << which added to the push to move out of the manaloning shadows. | [11:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:06:18 jfw: I have not done much in the way of integrating the system with V as I didn't find myself qualified to even know what that would look like | [11:33] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008885 << does this mean if you try emerging something that doesn't have an ebuilds in /cuntoo/portage/ , it will use /usr/portage ? | [11:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:16:24 diana_coman: jfw: "/cuntoo/portage is configured as the system's highest priority repository, with upstream Gentoo and the overlays demoted." - to cite from the source | [11:34] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009044 << and a beautifully economizing description at that, thank you! | [11:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 04:11:27 diana_coman: dorion: eulora is a masterclass in economy mascarading as a videogame; that'd be as close to a "full description" as it gets. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | welcome hanbot | [12:45] |
| hanbot: | howdy an' ty. | [12:45] |
| hanbot: | curious where this'll go, and i'm sure i'll enjoy the read 'til i find out. :) feels like a leg-stretching luxury to come over here. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | heh, I hope you do enjoy it! | [12:46] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (136h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [13:06] |
| auctionbot: | --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids --- | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009069 - from what I know of Latin, I wouldn't say so but I'm not familiar enough with the space to say for sure that it doesn't; Latin is very strong on structure indeed and it builds on that so I'd say a different outlook. | [15:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:05:20 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008832 << perhaps process is more correct than structure, but what I mean is does Latin define words using negative space ala Greek ? | [15:27] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 16:52:33 diana_coman: dorion: more like how the chair is *defined* as a result of taking things away from the whole ; as opposed to "positive" definition of the more usual sort "this chair is 4 wooden legs and one wooden plank" | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009074 - ok, so when's your eta to be done with putting those things in order so you can really get going? | [15:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:06:53 lobbes: the last month and change was getting the mp-wp bot built (+ saltmines and other private sphere things related to getting my internal (and external!) house in order) | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009075 - absolutely no point to any regrets ever. | [15:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:06:58 lobbes: (sure, in retrospect I perhaps should have had a kitchen built *before* offering omelettes for sale on the menu. Still I have no regrets) | [15:29] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-10-09 mp_en_viaje: "sure, most people specializing in serving breakfast for a fee can produce omlets in about ten minutes. but they start with a ready kitchen, which already contains eg eggs" | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009082 - not at all out of line, quite on the contrary since this is something related to your biz, so shared, I even expect you add to it if there's more (and he to your answers if they lack anything); and for that matter nudges in the open, it's perfectly fine. | [15:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:30:58 dorion: (not sure if I'm out of line there since the question wasn't addressed to me, but assumed he merely overlooked it given the outpour he was engaged in and decided to follow up in chan rather than nudge in pm) | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009085 - yes, you can set it to anything you want for that matter; ofc whether or not it can still compile whatever it finds there is a different matter. | [15:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:34:37 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008885 << does this mean if you try emerging something that doesn't have an ebuilds in /cuntoo/portage/ , it will use /usr/portage ? | [15:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion, jfw: It occurs to me that an overview of the Gringo job market, cost of living, quality of life, etc in Panama could be of use to myself in the near future. Should diana_coman find this a useful allocation of some of either of your time. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: dorion has in his plan to write about his 7 years experience in Panama | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: bump that up please. | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you don't have to chew the Panama civil code upfront for that either, it can wait for afterwards. | [15:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: If the description of Panama sounds promising, I can eat the law myself | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | makes sense; he might still need to eat it too anyway for his own needs though. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: dorion where do you keep your servers anyway, do you know the local ISPs? | [15:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | suspects is Panama has a downside its going to be Climate+USG proximity | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: tbh I have no idea why would you want to go to Panama now but it can't hurt to consider the option at least, I suppose. | [15:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I don't particularly want to. Looking at the map of where Datacenter live, Panama seems to have some for being between the continents. It also gets point for speaking spanish. | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | that much is true, yes. | [15:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Also best western hemisphere travel hub, if next gig is a persistently mobile one | [15:44] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009047 - yes, it can bootstrap from self. Python modules can be linked in statically at interpreter build time, though indeed this means you can't "just setup.py install" things with interpreter extensions. And yes X11 is a big ??? atm | [17:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 04:20:05 bvt: jfw: is gales linux fully self-bootstrapping (has packages for gcc&etc., with all static libs installed)? what about python? iirc statically linking it can be a trouble because lots of python modules dlopen, and i really expect the same for x11 | [17:25] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009082 - ty dorion. | [17:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:30:58 dorion: (not sure if I'm out of line there since the question wasn't addressed to me, but assumed he merely overlooked it given the outpour he was engaged in and decided to follow up in chan rather than nudge in pm) | [17:26] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009063 - if I won S.NSA auction I'd lean toward rolling the dice on the untested option. If a higher value is declared there could also be hard-to-predict import duties on this end. If I paid all that extra I'd want some kinda guarantee that they'll actually work on arrival, and I dunno how realistic that is. | [17:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 11:00:06 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: There's two ways they could be shipped. One is that I haven't tested them to see if they work, I put a value on the export paper with fedex under 200 USD because the machine's functonality is uncertain. They other way is I test the machine, declare a reasonable market value, pay a Dispachante de Aduanas ~350 to do export paperwork, and that... makes shipping a roughly ~700 USD affair per machine. | [17:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: If you in Panama you have the least onerous possible journey to the Oriental Republic of Uruguay. I don't see why you wouldn't buy a plane ticket and some giant suitcases if you won. | [17:37] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: do you have physical dimensions, weight and parts listing of dulap + spare? | [17:37] |
| jfw: | I'd be open to a tourist + courier run | [17:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Pretty sure I've got measurements somewhere to dig up. Each dulap is ~14 kg | [17:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | 26x17.25x1.75 inches for a dulap. Or 66x44x5 in centimeters. | [17:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | And do consider that Pizarro will be firing off auctions soon as well http://bingology.net/2019/pizarro-liquidation-auctions-proposal/ | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | santa claus comes with dulaps this year | [17:42] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Nov-2019#1009113 - we don't have servers atm. We looked into colocation options at a couple points, this turned up a couple 'machine room in office building' type things, and possibly some more dedicated facilities | [17:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-06 15:38:04 diana_coman: jfw: dorion where do you keep your servers anyway, do you know the local ISPs? | [17:43] |
| jfw: | ty BingoBoingo. | [17:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Don't forget the switches, rails, and other grab bag items. | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: didn't you investigate those "possibly some more dedicated facilities" ? | [17:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Mod6 also has a dell server he's interested in unloading. It is bigger and heavier than the dulaps, but it does have 6 2.5" bays and a set of spare power supplies. | [17:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Intel inside though. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: looking at the pizarro auction proposal wouldn't it make more sense to link the server names to their specs? | [17:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I don't have the specs handy in a single location yet. I'm not confident I'll locate the specs. I plan to take pictures, but I cannot in good conscience publish specs I am uncertain about. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: oh; don't you have them on pizarroisp.net or aren't you sure those match? | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | eg http://pizarroisp.net/shared-hosting/ for uy1? | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: I roughly know the servers but not everyone else does. | [17:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I am sure the information for every server is somewhere, but I've not yet found ever server's somewhere. I'll get the specs and publish an ad announcing intention to sell now that the shareholders seem to have accepted the plan. | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | works. | [17:59] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: we didn't investigate very far re datacenters, as I recall because the bigger question-mark was re funding. (dorion, is that correct?) | [17:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: For purely geographical reasons I expect there are a couple IXPs nearby. Pretty sure I remember trying to get a hold of at least one back in 2017. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: are you running your blogs from your home currently? | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | vaguely remembers something in jfw's notes | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: maybe you look up and figure out what/if isps in panama since you have to do that list anyway? | [18:05] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (131h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [18:06] |
| auctionbot: | --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids --- | [18:06] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: initially pizarro rockchip, now USG VPS. I was contemplating a fiber hookup at home, though dunno if I'd be able to cohabitate with rackmount box noise | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | I wouldn't advise it really | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: if you want to live in a dc, might as well switch your business plans and do a proper isp already | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | could use it too | [18:09] |
| jfw: | It's worth considering, esp. if a battle-hardened BingoBoingo could advise or help. JFW is no BGP PhD | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw grab dorion too and consider then; best in here too. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: bgp? | [18:13] |
| jfw: | protocol by which ISPs advertise routes; though I'm using it here as symbolic of not having worked at 'proper ISP' with own address space and so on. | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | that was what I wasn't clear on, aha. | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, nobody's a phd at anything to start with; the issue is not that but quite different ie if you decide to do it, then it has to be done properly so not as a side thing or just bits and pieces and so on | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, not something to say much on right now | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow | [18:35] |
| jfw: | oh, diana_coman: dorion and I will be offline Saturday through mid-Sunday for some hiking in the mountains with the crew, which wasn't previously mentioned. (We thought it could be a later weekend, but schedule conflicts came up and this would be the last chance in 2019.) | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | ha | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right, just plan your reviews & plans so they still get published, more sanely on Friday I suppose. | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anything else? | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: At this point I am not interested in joining ventures involving folks getting their feet wet in a new field. I am focusing my search on established operations. | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'll end up doing that. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: no, you shouldn't get into a new isp for sure. | [18:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw! | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | mk. | [18:41] |
| jfw: | nope, ty. | [18:42] |
| jfw: | looks like I'll have my hands full digesting what I've inspired | [18:46] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-06 mircea_popescu: diana_coman, and in an unexpected turn of events, your pages are now inspiring trilema articles. | [18:46] |
| hanbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Jul-2019#999045 << i'm thoroughly enjoying my logreading, haha. i've been missing out! | [18:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-07-20 15:32:00 diana_coman: in crude words: don't cut off your own dick just because it's inconvenient to have one, at times | [18:56] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: understandable & godspeed. | [19:40] |
| jfw: | welcome hanbot; I for one would count myself fortunate to have your keen eye & thoughtful pen in here. | [19:41] |
| hanbot: | thanks jfw. looking forward to checking out the individual histories here. the healthily open atmosphere diana_coman's very patiently fostered is so very pleasant. speaking of which, diana_coman wouldja ballpark your avg time commitment/day over the past four months or so in here? | [19:51] |
| auctionbot: | S#1063 O=1 LB=20mn E=2019-11-12 15:43:00.630180 (127h42) >>> selling items 1, 2 and 4 through 7 on http://www.loper-os.org/pub/bones/snsa_1_nov_2019.txt ; buyer to take possession at his own expense. | [22:06] |
| auctionbot: | --- end of auction list, 20mn total bids --- | [22:06] |
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