| dorion: | hi tanami | [00:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019614 – dorion, tbh *the* most helpful change was that of myself – unsurprisingly but also not quick nor easily passed on unfortunately; in practical terms though and probably more along the lines of the sort of answer you were looking for, there were several strategies that I gradually developed for myself and worked (and I'd choose one or another depending a lot on context and … | [04:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 17:33:21 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019587 – what did you find were the most helpful changes ? | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | … people involved, how else); if I were to attempt now a listing I'd say, in order from the least-flexible end: there's no free, only discounted (initially heavy, gradually or abruptly on no-shows less heavily discounted) time-expenditure; there's a deposit that gets reimbursed if nothing comes out of it/credited if closed/forfeited if no-show/less than 24 hours cancel notice; accept graciously one (ONE) … | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | … rescheduling/no-show/mess-up but move the approach down to one of the previous points for the next time then (this would be closest to your suggested approach I think); accept graciously ONE rescheduling/no-show/mess-up but make sure to redirect the rescheduled meeting in this case to a. a day and time of your choice not theirs and especially not their first suggestion or b. potentially convert instead to an invite to one of your … | [04:02] |
| diana_coman: | … events (obv, you'd need to have such things & this is why I was saying this is several layers wide and deep); accept graciously ONE reschedule, make clear and explicit the trouble + the fact that you are indeed going out of your way to make *sure* the 2nd agreed-upon meeting is at a time&place that works perfectly for them because there will never be a third if the 2nd is messed up too. | [04:02] |
| diana_coman: | hm, it got cut bc. stupid irssi never heard of more-than-one-breaks, ffs. | [04:02] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I'll really have to fully check out jfw's client; on the list it goes. | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | back to it, let me repair it then: | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | ah, no, just slow logger; /me kicks the logger then. | [04:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019623 – BingoBoingo, wouldn't you say that is what is needed? | [04:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 17:47:52 BingoBoingo: realizing through the revision of the plans that this is growing into a near, if not entirely complete operational reboot of Qntra. | [04:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: tea also contains caffeine afaik, if in smaller quantities indeed; anyways, trouble starts not at caffeine but at addiction (or rather – at dependency); fwiw the fact that I drink very little coffee (and anyway I started drinking any of it only relatively recently) is simply because I literally did *not* need even more… alertness or how to put it; it took 1.5 years of at most 3 hours of sleep per night (and broken/not … | [04:14] |
| diana_coman: | … continuous at that) to have any use for it (and by then it would have been too little, of course so …) | [04:14] |
| diana_coman: | sleep deprivation is a torture indeed, only for women it gets rebranded as joys of motherhood. | [04:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, try next week to get those EOD reports as comments on your plan on yh so they are in one place and you can go through them more easily at the end of the week too; since it seems the approach helps others too, I'm checking the comments in the morning anyway so I'll read it there just as well as here. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019624 – BingoBoingo, this is significantly better, indeed; re-read it and revise it even qntra-style for clarity though (it's even visible where you warmed up there as the end is WAY clearer than the start); and you need to add more re offline venues & approaches + automation for non-blogs/commenting; re crawler and all that, I want to see already the first step (and nothing … | [04:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 19:34:12 BingoBoingo: presents next draft of the plan http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=c8k8 | [04:34] |
| diana_coman: | … further for now, just do THAT one first step properly and without worrying about everything else on that front at once). | [04:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Ty, the reboot is indeed what's needed. I'll give it that re-read and hammer that first step. | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahaha, I had a look at that drucker book and it has some really funny gems in there; do be careful what and how you take out of it, as it's so narrowly stuck in a very specific self-selected sliver of artificial-reality (sounds american to me but regardless) that you risk importing nonsense too along any useful exercises/practice you might get, hm. | [11:48] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for detailing, I like the deposit idea. on the events end, we were discussing just this week with one of our clients to do more regular events. we'll hold them at his office and we'll both send invites to our respective networks. | [14:44] |
| dorion: | diana_coman re drucker, you had a look at "the effective executive" ? I have been conscious about keeping perspective and separating the good from bad. he was Austrian, but lived from his mid twenties in America. from what I've read, he's used examples from the UK and Japan, but there is for sure a big focus on American business and major corps at that since afaik he had the most exposure to those | [14:48] |
| dorion: | in his consulting. | [14:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: sheesh 3 disjointed hours of sleep for 1.5years… Maybe I'm too much of a princess when it comes to getting a good night's sleep. Re the caffeine addiction, yes the main problem is I have a dependency on my routine 2 cups of coffee in the morning. Yesterday I had a consistent light headache that was possibly from withdrawal. | [14:52] |
| dorion: | whaack caffeine is one of the hardest to kick afaiu. I regularly take ginger tea. dice up the roots and boil with both cinnamon and lemon. I'd expect the roots to be plentiful and cheap by your beach. | [14:57] |
| whaack: | dorion: nice, i put the ingredients on the shopping list | [15:00] |
| dorion: | whaack with that being said, I'll join in on the week long break from caffeine with you. | [15:01] |
| whaack: | dorion: good to hear, that's extra motivation to stick to my resolution | [15:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and ack, eod reports from now on will be posted as comments on my plans for the week. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Feb-2020#1019651 – so whose events are those then exactly? | [15:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-28 14:44:35 dorion: diana_coman thanks for detailing, I like the deposit idea. on the events end, we were discussing just this week with one of our clients to do more regular events. we'll hold them at his office and we'll both send invites to our respective networks. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re drucker yes, "the effective executive"; it's not as much the examples themselves (those are indeed including some from UK and Japan) but more a. the environment and approach he pushes/has in mind/builds on&for b. the obliviousness (whether on purpose or out of ignorance I can't tell but it doesn't matter) to the roots of both what he sees and what he pushes. | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I'll need to write up the notes now, huh. | [15:25] |
| dorion: | diana_coman they will be at his office. when we present we will be a joint host and promote through our own channels. on our side, I'll publish blog articles in advance and send to my contacts. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Feb-2020#1019654 – well, I certainly do NOT recommend that sort of sleep deprivation to anyone, no; in between that extreme and leisurely 8h+ every night of blissful sleep, there's of course a lot of space, lol. | [15:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-28 14:52:24 whaack: diana_coman: sheesh 3 disjointed hours of sleep for 1.5years… Maybe I'm too much of a princess when it comes to getting a good night's sleep. Re the caffeine addiction, yes the main problem is I have a dependency on my routine 2 cups of coffee in the morning. Yesterday I had a consistent light headache that was possibly from withdrawal. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so they are effectively a joint-event, explicitly organised by his biz & jwrd, right? | [15:29] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yes, at least when we present. he'll likely have other events where either he's presenting or even other clients of his (the bulk of his business deals with multinationals). we could push to sponsor the latter, but haven't discussed with him what that would look like. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: wait, what do you mean exactly by "events" in "to do more regular events" and "he'll likely have other events" – are you doing presentation(s)~=event there? | [15:35] |
| dorion: | diana_coman sorry for the confusion. on the one hand, we'll present several times, but he'll also have other people present on topics. on the other hand, one take away I had from the conference experience is we should do it again in a couple months now that a) we've got the presentations and venue and b) several people didn't attend due to travel. | [15:41] |
| dorion: | apart from presentations, last year I organized several happy hours where I invited people with expressed interest in Bitcoin. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: myeah but see, that's not your event, that's the thing; you are basically making his numbers and serving his audience there which mhm, fine but not fully serving your purpose really. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what's the trouble anyway with aiming and having your own "conference" or whatever? not like you can't rent a room. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | you can invite him to present, sure; returning the favour afterwards and all that. | [15:44] |
| dorion: | diana_coman there isn't a trouble in hosting our own. in fact, the other guys that presented don't want to hold another until next year. so it mainly comes down to putting it together. | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: how did those happy hours go, did most people show up, were they interested, why not focus on growing those if you are not yet sure you have enough to make a conference work ? (though remembering that focus on "exclusivity", it can't be a problem) | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so then what, the admin work, you mean? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | there can be a lot of admin work, sure, but there are also event organisers /rooms usually don't come just bare walls and bring your chairs from home (or hm, maybe they do in Panama?); there is still a lot of work on getting the people you want to actually come etc so yes, that part is to be considered well, but really it's that part only; and considered as in "what does this bring for jwrd and therefore is this worth doing?", not … | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | … otherwise. | [15:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman we did focus on the exclusivity for the happy hours and ended up with about 50\% attendance. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: question is – was it the *useful* 50\%? | [15:52] |
| dorion: | diana_coman well I didn't invite the useless, lol. having someone rsvp then not show was a bit annoying on the one hand, but a cheap test on the other. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: wider though, the question basically has at root the – what's your growth and development strategy there? | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you can't invite the useful, only the promising, you know? and it's not your fault or anything, lol | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, quite a cheap test at that, indeed. | [15:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good distinction re useful and promising. the strategy was to focus on the relationship development. now we're in a better position to make them more useful because we've done more the set ourselves up. the last happy hour I did was the beginning of november prior to traveling. | [15:57] |
| dorion: | re relationship development, have regular meetings/conversation with promising people to establish some trust and provide a solid basis to bring in more people. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ok; iirc from your published business plan you have a clear profile of the sort of people that are promising so that's good; do you have also concrete ways to evaluate those meetings/conversations/invites even? and for that matter competitors, market, all that jazz? | [16:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I've not written out an evaluation methodology, no. | [16:04] |
| dorion: | I've thought about it, but should write and publish it, both for myself and to show the invitees. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: it doesn't have to be some full-blown 10 pages monstrosity; but you do need to have for yourself some way of evaluating because otherwise you can't really increase the focus on what delivers the results you are after; esp when it's meetings and talks and conversations and so on, it's very easy to end up dragged about everywhere for as long as you have any free hour for it but at the end of the day what matters is what really … | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | … came out of it whether short, medium or long-term, whether deal or strategic advantage etc. | [16:09] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, set expectations both for myself and the people attending. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you will never have the time to go/talk/be everywhere for sure but the good news is that anyway that's not needed as such really; on one hand it might make it way easier to make everyone *come* to you where & when you are and for the other, you want to filter the ocean so you do need some working tools or you'll just exhaust yourself. | [16:12] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, that was the idea of hosting. both that I get to see many people at once and that they associate me with introducing them to interesting people. | [16:14] |
| jfw: | In filtering tools on the tech training side: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/jwrd-placement.html | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so then think and write down some steps & aims for that, implement to build it up, make sure there's time for it even at the expense of talks/meetings otherwise and talk/write/ask more to help you with it if/as needed. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: now I realised how long it's been since I suffered through any sort of school, lolz. | [16:21] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Feb-2020#1019663 – I'd be interested for sure; the book seems influential in our local circles so if there's poison to be noted, might be of value to more than just dorion & me | [16:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-28 15:25:07 diana_coman: I guess I'll need to write up the notes now, huh. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you plan/need to distribute those or why that format? | [16:22] |
| dorion: | jfw nice on the placement test. | [16:23] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: as opposed to more of an interview? The idea is to have something reusable | [16:23] |
| jfw: | I can see it being …daunting | [16:24] |
| jfw: | but also supposed to be pretty easy if you know the stuff | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: no, as opposed to an actual task to do I guess. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | I had to fight the initial eyes glazing-over effect but that's possibly me-and-filling-forms, so not necessarily your trouble there. | [16:26] |
| dorion: | jfw yeah, apart from a few I completed in the time it took to read. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, it's easy if you know the stuff; it's probably "wtf is a…process??" if you don't, lol. | [16:27] |
| jfw: | I do think a hands-on sort of puzzle would be a good addition; it'll need some thought. | [16:27] |
| dorion: | jfw agree re puzzle addition, but reckon this'll suffice for today. | [16:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My revised outline for learning the command line http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=2wbr | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you might want afterwards to give the test at the end to your pupils too, esp if they took it in the beginning and found it hard, heh. | [16:33] |
| jfw: | whaack, re caffeine: I quit cold turkey a couple years back (& stayed off for maybe a year). Withdrawal symptoms lasted to some extent for about a week; I'd just suggest being prepared to give yourself some slack – possibly lengthy surprise naps, basic painkillers for headaches, eating well | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's combinatorially without c in the middle, lol; because it's from combinations not categories nor combinategories ! | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | reads further | [16:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: for sure. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, what am I here, the universal librarian? "as with learning all things, focus on understanding what and how and why it is and does", lol | [16:37] |
| jfw: | whaack: there's a detail to note with 'getent hosts' in what it does different from the other examples that could make it give a different result – I suppose I should let you figure out what. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the "do not X" is at most a footnote really; while that specific do not is relevant to you and possibly others, if you start listing all the do NOTs, you'll end up with a mighty tome. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's certainly better; the why is a bit disjointed/not clear if you know what you are going to say there really (ie why is the piping one level below one cmd at a time and not on the same level?) | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | the how to sounds like you don't really have all that clear learning strategies in place, huh. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha yeah, well its come to my attention that my process of obtaining knowledge is quite broken | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | sure, all you say there is fine and useful to do,yes, read the man pages, always think with your own brain when reading something even if it's written by God himself, do practice, do read other people's scripts etc | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | but hm | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, why do *you* want to learn cmd line tools? | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | why is that missing from there anyway, it's your own personal blog | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | I'd say have a good look at it and see if you can think of more to add in there, then go ahead and write it up, at least to see how the writing turns out on this sort of skeleton. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | needs to go now. | [16:44] |
| jfw: | In other news, a gbw transaction escapes into the wild: https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/7386679d841bdca0b7c412d09d936627e7310597542be8f7d75cb39811d799b1 | [16:45] |
| jfw: | (sadface for not having republican block explorer to link there.) | [16:45] |
| jfw: | From this exercise I learned some ugly history I didn't know from the era of Gavin's turn to the dark side, http://archive.is/tE6nK , which may indicate some minor tweaks to the fee/change logic. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | (basically, if you send an output with value under , 0.8.2+ considers it dust spam regardless of fee.) | [16:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: tbh I have a concern that the reason I want to learn the cmd line tools is in part because I enjoy solving little puzzles. Otherwise I would say I want to learn them because I see them as a means to increase my productivity and I guess also (this could be added to my list of whys) as a way to learn about topics such as networking and how various parts of a computer work (tools can | [16:52] |
| whaack: | shed light on how the hardware is designed) | [16:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | stepping back from hammering on Qntra plan to let eyes freshen and hammer out note on US stock market indexes taking biggest weekly loss since 2008. | [19:08] |
| whaack: | jfw: congrats on the gbw transaction, and with a baked in advertisement as well! | [20:45] |
April 21, 2020
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Feb 2020
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I focused on fixing misunderstandings while working on my outline. WTI: Keep notes on what, if anything, I learned during the writing process for each article. B: I've let a few comments go without a response. WTI: I'll respond to them tomorrow and make it a goal to always at the very least acknowledge a comment within 24 hours. | [00:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The outline I made today: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=3uXl Originally I was going to make an article about learning the command line w/ an example of a command I created, but I decided to move that example command into a separate article | [00:23] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Feb-2020#1019466 lol well it's easier for me to know whether I get along with him than to know whether he is a good mechanic | [00:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-26 03:56:14 diana_coman: whaack: re mechanic, the more important part is how good a mechanic he is, rather than how well you get along with him, lol. | [00:25] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: it's better but you seem to lack/not have yet clear a high-level structure of what exactly you are trying to figure out so that you get some clarity and can even evaluate how much/what you did/still need to do, hm. | [08:37] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: looking at what you have there, how about this high-level structure: 1. Readership growth 1.1 strategy/approach 1.2 venues of interest (online and offline) 1.3 tools & implementation 1.4 discarded (ie already known to not-work, whatever they are but it's useful to list stuff & reasons anyway, lest one forgets or ends up otherwise with "nothing to show") | [08:42] |
| diana_coman: | for 2. Contributor growth, it seems to be ~same really, could work perfectly fine. | [08:42] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: here's a quick skeleton made for the readership growth based on the above structure; look at it and see how& where your items fit + what further space it opens up for clear exploration; structure similarly (and/or see what is different if anything at this level) for contributors growth; for both you really need to add and explore more offline options too, for sure; but unless you … | [09:07] |
| diana_coman: | … structure it somehow, there's no chance to either get some clarity as to what *options* there are or to hold your ground and be able to have a proper talk when asked "what did qntra do for growth", you know? | [09:07] |
| diana_coman: | it's one thing to say "no new contributors" and it's another thing to say "no new contributors after trawling x blogs, inserting y comments, picking z fights in t months; still in the pipeline to explore gab and twitter etc" | [09:08] |
| diana_coman: | also, seriously now, qntra is not working in a void so you should get known too as the active voice behind qntra if nothing else; the point is that it's unseemly that all idiots get to talk unchallenged and shamelessly promote all the shit everywhere while qntra stands by like a wallflower or what? | [09:10] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: if needed, do keep in mind/plan as well so that you rely a bit more on thimbronion and nicoleci or what other contributors you already have so that you do minimum for now on the writing as such and focus on growth first and foremost. | [09:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how does that link-archiving work, can I have it in here too or what does it require? | [09:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019476 good ideas there overall, indeed. | [09:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 00:21:53 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I focused on fixing misunderstandings while working on my outline. WTI: Keep notes on what, if anything, I learned during the writing process for each article. B: I've let a few comments go without a response. WTI: I'll respond to them tomorrow and make it a goal to always at the very least acknowledge a comment within 24 hours. | [09:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you need to figure out better your "why" there for sure, heh. | [09:15] |
| diana_coman: | at least the outline is good for highlighting this – you don't really know/have/are used to extract good whys. | [09:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: e.g. "Piping lets one switch back and fourth between languages" – this is not a why and it can't possibly be a why; piping is very *powerful* but NOT because it makes you…switch languages, wtf! how do you even reason you'd link that in as a why learn it? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, the "how to learn" is so, SO poor! | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | could add there "and stare at the examples for 1 hour while intensely piping languages"! | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so, the good news is that those outlines ARE useful; the unexpected news is that there's way more work to be done on them before they are useful *for writing*; so far they are useful for highlighting where you need to do more work & thinking really. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019478 – that may very well be but it still doesn't do anything; you know, it's *exactly* for this sort of reason that "LOC" ended up as "measure of software", with all the idiotic results of it: because it is indeed easier to …measure; basically measuring stuff that is easy to measure instead of stuff that is *useful* to measure – horrible approach. | [09:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 00:25:28 whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Feb-2020#1019466 lol well it's easier for me to know whether I get along with him than to know whether he is a good mechanic | [09:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you. This is a good bit of direction, and getting myself out into the shit thumping idiots is an important point. | [09:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | As is pulling back from writing myself to push on the growth front. | [09:27] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: yw; have a look and a think, put the meat on those bones and/or ask if there's something unclear, see if there's perhaps more /different to add, iterate and come back, just keep going and it will get moving. | [09:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Alright, will do. I'm expecting incoming news from thimbronion later today, so that's one thing I don't have to worry about. | [09:31] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: for that matter, what's your editing/publishing schedule/plan anyway? | [09:31] |
| diana_coman: | why it was never requested/asked for is mainly because it seemed you have it well under control so yeah, no need to ask; but now I wonder – do you have a clear plan there? | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | notes she is NOT A JOURNALIST | [09:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: So far I take pieces as they come in, because the GPG wrapping obscures whether the story is breaking until I open the it up and give it that first pass read. That does leave my attention vulnerable to interruption, so editing and publishing is probably going to need some planning, though it isn't in the most urgent need for it yet. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that's one good point but not even the meat of it, huh; nevertheless, as you say, it is indeed not yet burning so it shall have to wait for now. | [09:42] |
| diana_coman: | adds a note to get back to this when there's at least some plan in place for tending the more pressing fires; sigh. | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion what places/apps/whatevers are popular nowadays with the btc-interested people you know? it might help BingoBoingo to add to his list. | [09:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | inclined to take some time Sunday to go to the old city with the camera and cover the changing of the Presidents down here. May be some lulzy derps protesting etc, and the last photostory on Qntra did get some decent drama when I threw it on one of the LATAM subreddits | [09:49] |
| diana_coman: | why not. | [09:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | not seeing an answer to "Why not?" beyond the time it'll take, which doesn't seem to outweight the up to now rare opportunity for boots on the ground. | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: meant to ask : what/how do you weigh whether drama is decent or not? | [15:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 09:49:21 BingoBoingo: inclined to take some time Sunday to go to the old city with the camera and cover the changing of the Presidents down here. May be some lulzy derps protesting etc, and the last photostory on Qntra did get some decent drama when I threw it on one of the LATAM subreddits | [15:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I weight drama when it draws curiosity or gets a rise. In that case, I made a since deleted submission, but someone else carried the Qntra piece around reddit asking about the story and receiving mostly dense responses http://archive.is/AigEd | [15:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Decent drama is drama that gets other people to assist the spreading. | [15:34] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019476 – reminds me I've slipped on comment acknowledgement too. | [15:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 00:21:53 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I focused on fixing misunderstandings while working on my outline. WTI: Keep notes on what, if anything, I learned during the writing process for each article. B: I've let a few comments go without a response. WTI: I'll respond to them tomorrow and make it a goal to always at the very least acknowledge a comment within 24 hours. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: well, that sounds like some publicity so not-bad but it also sounds like an opportunity that could have been perhaps pursued for more, really; for one thing that someone who carried the piece around – did you talk to them? for the other – what/how many people/or-anything-visible/measurable did it bring back to qntra? | [15:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'll have to follow these up more in the future. In this case all I did on that front was answer derps that yes, the Navy was involved, etc. That piece is recent enough that when access.log gets fed to AWstats, that there will be data on what that story drew. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you know, the more I think about it, the more I start doubting that the lack of a proper editorial plan is NOT pressing, huh. | [15:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 09:43:28 diana_coman: adds a note to get back to this when there's at least some plan in place for tending the more pressing fires; sigh. | [15:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: This is starting to come together in my head as well. If we want decent drama, it's going to take some directed effort looking for lulz that connect. | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: iirc in the beginning when you started with cazalla you bought some journalism book(s) – were those on writing only or more and have you mastered it/them, did you stop there, have you read anything further? | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: and not *only* that, but seriously, you can't have a decent paper with …whatever happens to fall from the sky or what? | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, if it was indeed the case that just reading every day the news still was enough to get articles out with reasonable frequency, then it's probably *so much* that you've been leaving on the table that it …hurts. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: basically get it into your head that Qntra is a. a *business* not a hobby b. your future | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | so you know, it can't be just like that whatever happens to happen or something. | [15:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Beyond the AP style guide, no other books that I recall or that made the trip here. There indeed is quite a bit that's been left on the table over the years. Breaking the "whatever happens to happen" approach to things is something I've got to break. | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing, reading the about page, qntra is of course meant to be a proper paper aka reporting on everything of interest, not *just* on idiots and lulz, wtf. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | so I don't know – was for instance the clean dissolution of pizarro reported? of nosuchlabs? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | why not? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | the start of tmsr-os project? | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | gah, I am not a journalist and I shall not become one overnight either but you can surely do better than that. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: your overall goal with Qntra is to *own* the newspace in *everything* bitcoin-related; does this make full sense to you? | [15:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Alright. Expanding the coverage to everything is going into the plan, and does add some emphasis on the need to grow the contributor pool. | [15:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It makes sense. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, of course you need more contributors, certainly. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: the main question would be I supposed – do you actually want to own that space? | [15:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 15:50:26 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: your overall goal with Qntra is to *own* the newspace in *everything* bitcoin-related; does this make full sense to you? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | suppose* | [15:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | But it's become very clear the post-2017 "keep alive" slump and every assumption I've held since needs challenged. | [15:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I do want to own that space. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | good then. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | *that* is the long-term aim. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | talking of short-term and long-term plans; *that*. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | at this rate I'll end up on qntra's board without even realising it, ugh. | [15:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | Thank you. I'm assembling the next revision, and I'll include editorial. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the fire-setting/fighting/tending? | [15:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: That is a distinct risk you are running right now. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: mostly cooled now and I'm working on some catchup. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | ketchup! | [16:00] |
| jfw: | One of the things was preparing a placement test for this prospective client; it was pointed out to us that, um, we can't just take their word that they know CLI stuff and sell them on one thing, then have it turn out that they don't and we need to spend a bunch of unexpected time | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: myeah, especially with words about what people claim to "know". | [16:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I learned now that one of my two fleets crashed about 9 hours ago. It seems to have been from some type of out of memory error http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=x6Mh I imagine that there is no point of standing up the fleet again until I've debugged the issue. | [16:03] |
| whaack: | The dead fleet logged 850,000 lines before crashing. The one that is still going has logged over 2 million | [16:04] |
| jfw: | We thought we might get that done yesterday but the meeting didn't get confirmed and is now tentatively Friday. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: this memory issue thing is both ugly and really going on for way longer than it should; what's the root cause there anyway? the "great lisp environment" or your specific code or setup or what? | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the joys of working with "busy" people; that's how it tends to go more often than not, indeed. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | aye. | [16:05] |
| whaack: | This is a different memory issue than before. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | A bunch of dorion's time and some of mine was lost yesterday also on someone who "meet at my office" then turned out to be hanging out on the other side of town… | [16:06] |
| whaack: | I do not know the cause of this one. But I did see a similar error when I had a memory leak in my program (I was previously storing some irc messages in memory, so eventually the program would run out of space) | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: at some point you do need to put in place some ways to dealing with this sort of people that mess you around though because it's usually not just a "one-off" either. | [16:08] |
| jfw: | having more options is the best way I know to get more leverage on that kind of thing; but yeah, I could see some policy / sharper teeth helping anyway, and acting as a signal of our own value too. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not about "more options" as such, no, it can't be; first of all because if they are the sort of time-wasters, they will *anyway* waste *more of your time* than they are worth as they'll just keep dragging you down essentially; I get the trouble of "but it's anyway hard like hell to find even *that*" – it still doesn't mean it's fine to go along with it in that shape; hm. | [16:14] |
| jfw: | it occurs to me, if we don't push back on time-wasting, we deprive someone of the chance to demonstrate they're capable of improving on it | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: exactly; and moreover, you give a signal that you do NOT want to give, there is that too and it's not unimportant. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | regardless of how many/if you have prospects, you should still value your time properly because if *you* don't, then *they will surely not* and it's only going to get worse. | [16:21] |
| jfw: | That signal being that we can be pushed around? | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the way you described it so far, it would seem that is the signal you give, yes; it's fine to give the signal that you are acommodating but it should *have a cost* if they mess you about. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | a cost for them, obviously. | [16:22] |
| jfw: | right. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, it's amazing how quickly people "find time" to stick to what they said if they paid some advance or something; this is not to say it has to be an advance – find some way that works, but you can't just not do anything about it. | [16:24] |
| jfw: | yeah, the incentive would depend on the situation but in general some way of recognizing the time value of … well, simply the value of time. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and moreover of *your* time, specifically. | [16:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019491 I can do better. To clarify the point about piping, would "One should learn the command line because the commands provide a means to write powerful and terse programs." be a proper "why learn the command line" and then a proper subcategory for that may be "One can create powerful programs because the output of command line | [16:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 09:15:17 diana_coman: whaack: you need to figure out better your "why" there for sure, heh. | [16:30] |
| whaack: | tools can be wired to the input of other command line tools forming arbitrarily long chains via piping" | [16:30] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: heh, right. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | as you are there to educate them because you *know* something they *need* and they can't find anywhere else, so you're not just some replaceable resource they can't find anywhere | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | but all of this is several layers deep and wide and all that; and moreover I can't even say I fully get exactly how you positioned yourselves there so far and how you are working exactly, kind of hard to say like this. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | it does come back to that don't sell yourselves short that I think I already repeated/pointed out in specific instances but you two know exactly what and how your are doing there. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, it's you there, not me. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that already sounds better indeed; go into more detail and explore the why(s) there as it will surely help you too, it's basically a way to better understand what it's all about anyway | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the typical analogy is with lego pieces: basically command line tools offer small-and-clear-enough to grasp and use pieces that can be *further* combined together via piping to build larger and more powerful structures *gradually* (meaning while still controlling what is going on and without having to swallow huge complexity of the universal-tool-that-supposedly-does-it-all-nobody-knows-how) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw, I know all about the "selling yourself short" through very direct and personal experience, lolz; only I was about 23-24 yo at the time and I tried to learn as fast as I could, lol. | [16:38] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I know missed or last-minute cancelled meetings or extended silences have happened a couple times at least with potential clients and partners, some more than others. Could be part of a selling selves short pattern, hm. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | it's almost always a combination of factors, of course; but the part you control is still just one and it does matter. | [16:39] |
| jfw: | I forget if I mentioned but it did feel like a novelty and some fun giving that stronger-on-sales presentation the other week. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: another way to look at command line tools is that they are the only "reusable components" that actually work, despite all the wank and pretense in OO or whatever other similar camps | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: oh hey, you didn't mention it so far, no; and really glad to hear it, too! :) | [16:44] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thanks, and for the nudges at the time. (And silly of me to not bother responding there in real time.) | [16:53] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019509 – whatsapp is ubiquitous in Panama and most of latam from my understanding. i gather telegram is popular in 'crypto' world. and signal is for people who want to imagine one phone app can be fundamentally better than another. | [16:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 09:44:50 diana_coman: jfw, dorion what places/apps/whatevers are popular nowadays with the btc-interested people you know? it might help BingoBoingo to add to his list. | [16:54] |
| jfw: | ^, and facebook properties generally | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | well, BingoBoingo needs to trawl *all* the swamps, so *everything* goes in. | [16:55] |
| jfw: | some others I've heard of are Slack and Gitter. I imagine trawling one swamp will naturally lead to others | [17:00] |
| dorion: | for the telegram thing I've used tg, which is terminal proggy. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yw; I suppose the other thing I should point out explicitly -and not just for you really, for everyone- is that failing to value & acknowledge good things & people around explicitly and timely is both very easy to do and very damaging in the longterm (and no, even if it sounds self-serving, it's not this the reason I'm pointing it out). | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ideally trawling one swamp should indeed naturally lead to the others, but given the poor record, I'd say it's best to have a list as long as possible to start with | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ^ | [17:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. I will revise the outline again today and if time permits publish a short article explaining the command I made to turn a list of domains into a list of (ip, domain) for a host file. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right; remember, your focus should be on doing things right first and foremost; the schedule/plan will have to adapt to *that*, not the other way around. | [17:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The point where piping lets one gradually build up a program from small, understandable chunks (that can be individually tested) is a good one that I had somehow missed | [17:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Indeed, I need all the swamps I can get. | [17:09] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: right, it's damaging whether pointed out or not so I've appreciated that you highlight it. | [17:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and ack re adapting schedule to how long it takes me to do things properly. | [17:10] |
| jfw: | whaack: I'm following from a distance here but 'ping' is definitely not the right tool for DNS lookup, heh. There are a couple options depending on which mess you prefer to depend on: | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that can be individually *mastered* aka known in full detail, this is not about "tested"; imagine it like this: basically on one hand you can learn stuff in reasonably small chunks that are themselves useful and then as you learn more of them, the benefits increase not linearly but *combinatorially* because ….piping. | [17:14] |
| jfw: | BIND, an old and ill-reputed monolithic DNS server, includes side utilities "host" and "nslookup". Glibc includes "getent hosts". I tend to use djbdns which includes "dnsip" and similar, though isn't widely installed by default. | [17:16] |
| jfw: | whaack: ah, "dig" also comes with BIND I believe, though I see it as for more advanced tracing. | [17:17] |
| jfw: | whaack: also the generating commands with awk and piping to bash strategy, while clever, strikes me as overkill when you could use a for or while loop | [17:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019587 – what did you find were the most helpful changes ? | [17:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 16:38:18 diana_coman: jfw: fwiw, I know all about the "selling yourself short" through very direct and personal experience, lolz; only I was about 23-24 yo at the time and I tried to learn as fast as I could, lol. | [17:33] |
| dorion: | I could see, "okay you missed a meeting, we'll reschedule with you once. if that's missed, it's 50/hr. (50/hr is what I've seen from some lawyers for general consulting.) | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: btw, *still from that about* page, following the very link on qntra's creation, it turns out yet another clear aim & venues – did you ever/do you at all even have a list with the "competition" in the bitcoin arena? do you make sure they don't have "news" that qntra doesn't cover? | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so do this properly and re-read *all* related to what qntra is even meant to be since apparently you never quite fully bothered to look or something; I can't begin to imagine exactly how but there it is. | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: extract from there everything of use, why wouldn't you even?? | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | takes a break to calm down already. | [17:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I do have such a list. Over time there was a tendency to retreat too much into the once fasionable bluster that "if things aren't happening in the Republic it isn't in Bitcoin", in retrospect it clearly wasn't the defensible line it may have seemed, and it is going in the discard pile for the editorial section of the plan which I'm hammering on atm. There's quite a bit of built up "old hands" shit of the sort that for | [17:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Qntra and other projects isolated, that has to be flushed. | [17:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | realizing through the revision of the plans that this is growing into a near, if not entirely complete operational reboot of Qntra. | [17:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | presents next draft of the plan http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=c8k8 | [19:34] |
| whaack: | jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Feb-2020#1019613 Noted, I'll tryrewrite the command with a for loop. And all the commands you mentioned are indeed a more direct way to get the ip for a domain, "getent hosts" even returns (ip, domain) in the right format in one go. | [20:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-27 17:18:25 jfw: whaack: also the generating commands with awk and piping to bash strategy, while clever, strikes me as overkill when you could use a for or while loop | [20:52] |
| whaack: | s/tryrewrite/rewrite | [20:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I took a stance against my one remaining drug addiction – caffeine. Instead today I drank some "organic indian chai tea." WTI: Try to not drink coffee for a week and see how that goes. B: Maybe related to the G, I was lethargic in the afternoon and took a nap that didn't seem to help. WTI: I'm going to go to bed very early tonight and try to stick to waking up at | [21:36] |
| whaack: | sunrise (~5am here). | [21:36] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Feb 2020
| diana_coman: | whaack: re mechanic, the more important part is how good a mechanic he is, rather than how well you get along with him, lol. | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: what's the status on the scripts part? did you refine those steps to something more useful for the task? | [15:24] |
| jfw: | I (predictably) have some fires to put out – or perhaps ignite – and will most likely remain tied up today. | [15:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I think I'm close to getting repeated curls done with while and other bash builtins. I've got the steps to the point where they appear clear and mechanizable. | [15:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | hammering on the second draft of the plans atm | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ok. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lolz, I kept refraining from telling you that you really should have gone for being a firefighter by the looks of it, but here, it has to be said! | [15:28] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: at least I'd have a shiny red truck to ride in | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | and with lights & sounds! | [15:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | Alright, second draft together, probably still some more paths to explore http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ksYf | [17:57] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Feb 2020
| diana_coman: | so now it takes ChanServ ~1hour to set +v mode?? jeez. | [08:32] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: my irssi config does not login to NickServ, on which +v depends | [08:43] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: ahh, that makes at least some sense then, ok. | [08:58] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: but hm, you don't have then set to change name if not logged in either? ie someone else can in principle squat your nick ? | [09:01] |
| bvt: | isn't the nick-squatter kicked/renamed when i do login to nickserv? | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: I would think so though I don't know; afaik there's some flag/option to have the squatter renamed if not logged in within some timeframe; the point being that you don't want squatting, not as much that you want to have a way to get back your nick when you do get online, or at least that's how I see it. | [09:19] |
| bvt: | ok, i have just enabled this setting (SET ENFORCE ON). ty for notification, will see how it goes now. | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | np | [09:27] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: looking at the qntra listing on mpex I realised that you are actually on a board with MP at least so re overall management you should talk to him and clarify any issues, no? Is the situation with cazalla clarified/set somehow (as the mpex listing still says he's the editor in chief, huh)? | [09:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm planning to read S.H. Bucher's translation of Aristotle's Poetics. Please let me know if I should read a different translation. | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: should be all right; for a second pass and to get a bit more used to a better workout with a text, it's worth you look afterwards at the version on perseus with the additional notes and context (it's also a different translation so all the better for noticing the differences & similarities). | [10:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: cool, I look forward to the workout. | [12:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The cazalla situation was handled through a repurchase of his share block, noted in the October 2015 statement. | [12:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: mircea_popescu, per the last discussion on Qntra, | [12:29] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-01-25 mircea_popescu: ideally, let's revisit the plans wrt attracting writers and improving circulation, and their respective state of implementation. | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | wants to see concrete plans and their implementation with respect to increasing circulation and attracting writers. He's also made it clear that he wants me to get started with the implementation of plans and collection of measurements before I've got enough to reopen the conversation with him, because otherwise I'd just be doing that thing I tend to fall into with words instead of offering concretes. | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | It isn't the case that I don't want or don't value the man's input. The case is that until I remediate these foundational holes, I can't bring enough to the table for the input to be anything other than a repetition of the standing orders to remediate these foundational holes. | [12:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | offers this draft for review http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KGzb | [14:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | uncertain whether the immediate short term and less immediate short term ought to merit their own treatments | [14:58] |
| jfw: | I've got no article still, but it's moving so I think I'll press on. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds like a plan; & good luck! | [15:18] |
| jfw: | thanks! | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ok, that fills in the picture at least, I hadn't followed Qntra in that detail; the good news is that your "management" part is therefore slimmer actually – you simply have the chief-editor management rather than overall. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Feb-2020#1019386 – hm, what did you start with and how did you work from there? | [15:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-25 14:53:55 BingoBoingo: offers this draft for review http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KGzb | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: how useful do you consider that draft plan to be to you as it currently stands? | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do you have that outline for review today? | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | lol, the sound of silence | [15:34] |
| dorion: | diana_coman here's what I have : http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=k9CA | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: a. you clearly mean history of Bitcoin, not generically like that b. the point in the introduction make more sense in the exact opposite order – do you see why? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | the 2 points* | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | what you have otherwise is mostly a timeline with some headings of your own; do you mean it as a timeline or do you intend to add more to it – if yes, what? (because while dates are supposedly easy to check, comments/additions can make or break the whole thing really) | [15:46] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I see what you mean about the introduction since finance and commerce existed way before Bitcoin. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes; and moreover, to the extent that you *want* precisely to talk to an audience as wide as you can, you *want to* start from the familiar and move on to the new, not the other way around! | [15:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right. regarding adding more, I'm primarily going to add links to properly reference. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | links are needed, certainly; and shouldn't be problematic, no. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: there is one oddity though | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: your 2 first headings (birth+infancy; early power rangers) are of one type (ie you identify some eras in there, fine) but the third one is of a different type (you identify basically a different area that btc extended too/started growing in) | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | both are fine and good and potentially useful, but you shouldn't mix them in the same listing as if they were the same sort of distinction – because they are not. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: also, the early power ranger history actually looks rather thin, hm | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | possibly it's simply early power ranger and market development history, really | [15:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman hm. it seems the first two cover some technical points and some of the people doing the technical work on the Bitcoin software itself, while later is people using the software and to build an economy around. | [15:57] |
| dorion: | re early power ranger history, the first technical point I pointed out in my presentation was the multisig soft fork which was implemented in 2012. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that is precisely the expansion/growth I was noting earlier, yes; it started as a proof of concept and the initial focus was on the software (sadly it even lasted for longer than it should have, at that, but this is aside); it took quite a while until the environment (as a whole because yes, it can't be just the software ever) was anywhere near some sort of recognisable forms or organising for commerce – and even then it's … | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | … quite debatable if anyone worth anything would call glbse commerce, ahem | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | this is the sort of trouble you risk running into there as soon as you aim to qualify the events rather than simply collect and structure them at most: you'll need to know very well what words you use and why exactly, going quite beyond what the various things/people called themselves at that time. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: basically you need on one hand the full timeline without added stuff; then, based on that, you can go ahead and look at it from technical, financial, political perspective (to the extent you can neatly separate those, which will be at least at times quite tough anyway) | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | the timeline is one and arguably can be extracted at a reasonable granularity so it's documented well and not disputed; however, different events will certainly have different importance and will require more or less or different context depending on which of the three perspectives you are focusing on | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | taking only the financial perspective, it's one thing to have the initial flurry "everyone can make an exchange nao" (of which Mt.Gox is arguably simply the most prominent example but not otherwise alone or something so hm re missing stuff there) and it's another thing to have actual finance people moving in. | [16:09] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok. if I understand correctly, start the article with the timeline and finish with commentary ? I agree that the three categories overlap quite a bit. one big challenge seems to be explaining how they overlap. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the trouble is not the fact that they overlap per se; the trouble is that you make again an enumeration of different things; hm, something is not quite fully getting over to you there and I'm not sure what/how much. | [16:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it seems a question I have to answer clearly for myself and the reader is why do I bring up the three perspectives ? | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: hm, do you see your three categories there to correspond to the three perspectives? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | the first simply read like a timeline really; if you aimed instead to make it "the technological perspective" then why is it focusing on satoshi rather than on …well, the techological really, all of it? | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | I realise it's possibly this the disconnect earlier – you considered those three groups to stand for the 3 perspectives and while I noticed it for the 3rd, it didn't even register for the first 2, huh. | [16:19] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think if someone wants to understand Bitcoin, they need to consider each category. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sure, that is nice and fine; but then take each in turn and follow it through the full timeline basically; this is why I was saying earlier that there's one timeline but three quite meaningful perspectives for its discussion | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-25 16:04:40 diana_coman: dorion: basically you need on one hand the full timeline without added stuff; then, based on that, you can go ahead and look at it from technical, financial, political perspective (to the extent you can neatly separate those, which will be at least at times quite tough anyway) | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | so if you want to talk techological perspective, follow the code base and all the drama there; when you look at the financial, follow the evolution of trades & exchanges + assorted drama there; if you follow the political, take the actors, their deeds and drama there. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | I could easily see *each* of those taking a few thousand words without any trouble – but I have no idea what exactly you want to cover, how deep and – even more importantly – how do you pick and choose there. | [16:26] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok. the structure shaping in my head is : intro explaining why, timeline 2009-2011, with commentary on the technology, rules and people and people, assets and exchanges. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: btw, how do you link the intro to the timeline exactly? | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | so intro is finance and commerce routed in trust + basically how trust is in fact still present in bitcoin, except in a shape that is perhaps not that familiar to someone coming from fiat world | [16:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I've picked and chosen for the most part by identifying the bigger projects and people. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | in itself the above fits together fine; how does it jump though to "and here's the history"? | [16:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: apologies for the delay. I went to move the legs and visit the grocer before getting hungry. | [16:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: With respect to the draft, it reads to me like an enumeration of rough edges with text attached to most of those edges that could readidily be replaced with the string "To Be Determined" | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Feb-2020#1019392 | [16:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-25 15:27:46 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Feb-2020#1019386 – hm, what did you start with and how did you work from there? | [16:32] |
| dorion: | diana_coman something along the lines of, "building from the basis of trust being established through one's history of promises and actions, here is a timeline of the history of Bitcoin I view to be most important to understand." | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: hm, that would logically push a history of *main actors* in bitcoin, ie that's your focus & perspective really. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | I suspect you are pretty much mixing there at least 3 topics and that's why it ends up pushing in different directions at each step; you have "trust in the bitcoin world" (or perhaps ~how bitcoin changed trust determinations), "timeline of bitcoin", "politics, tech and markets in the btc environment" | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: does the above make sense to you? | [16:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I started from Qntra's lacks and tried to sweep out from there what other edges are going to be encounted in trying to fill those lacks. | [16:39] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think that is a better description. I mainly focused on the people and commented on the some of the underlying aspects to provide context on the people. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: myeah, it shows; listen, there's a marked difference between growth and expansion on one hand vs reducing loss on the other. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | you planned for the last and you should plan for the first; why are you so concerned with leaks and all that, when there isn't even a proper boat to speak of? | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: it's fine to focus on that but then focus explicitly and purposefully ie first of all the focus should be clear *for you*, second you should be mindful of it so it really drives & shapes the content, third you should keep to it once clearly identified so the result is consistent and fully delivering on its aim instead of ending up a scattering of different bits and pieces. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | getting back to the trees discussion, if you aim therefore on identifying and talking of the main actors, then it's *them* that end up as main nodes in your tree and the rest flows from there; sure, context is needed of course but it will come then second, not first. | [16:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Alright, so I need to walk back from the edges and set the lens strictly on the growth and building at this point? | [16:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for hammering it home. I think my bad habit of loose language usage is the root of the scatter. | [16:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok re tree restructuring. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: quite likely; and btw, it potentially stores further trouble if unchecked, because it makes communication with you quite unreliable on both ends ie you think you said something but you said something else and it can take a while – in the happy case!- until either you or the other party figures out the misunderstanding (if it gets figured out…) | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you have the high-level/long-term aims even clearly stated already, as it turns out, here | [16:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-25 12:29:05 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: mircea_popescu, per the last discussion on Qntra, | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so that's what you set your eyes on and then you look at *everything and the devil's own kin* that might get you even in the slightest closer to that, yes? | [16:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good point. | [16:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | Alright. Gotta flesh out those unknowns with all of the things to try for growth | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: based on the above discussion and your existing outline, I'd really much rather see from you a draft that implements it all (can be a draft of the article, not necessarily of the outline again but please do make sure you either do as discussed or ask for further clarification/discussion where and what it's not making sense/fit/whatever) and gets another review rather than a published article; does this sit well with you? | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you have the aims; you have some known-to-work previous attempts; you have some known-to-fail previous attempts; there's the whole world in between; include the first, steer away from the second (and anything similar in *nature* to it); bring in *anything* and as much as you can glimpse even if unclearly from the third; does this make any sense? | [16:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it does. my goal will be drafted article. I'll consider a bit further update you on my deadline. | [16:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you, it seems to make sense. I'll give it another go. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: all right; take your time – as long as it's productive ; and talk /ask at any point or stage as soon as just taking the time is not that productive, the focus is on getting to do it right, not on sticking to the previous plan even when it stops fitting or something. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: good; so version 2 should have two main headings, namely A. improving circulation B. Attracting writers , ok? And at B I'll say it plainly that I think it includes the "and growing writers", just so it's not lost on the way. | [17:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | Ok | [17:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, and thank you. | [17:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I got along well with the mechanic, got his contact, and found out he lives quite close to me. WTI: I'll try to keep meeting handy people. B: I started working on my writing too late, and did not finish producing an outline. WTI: Start writing a little earlier, it can't be the last task I do before going to sleep. | [23:42] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Feb 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/jfw-review-week-of-17-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of 17 Feb 2020 | [02:25] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/jfw-plan-week-of-24-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of 24 Feb 2020 | [02:41] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/ejb-review-of-feb-17-feb-23-plan-for-feb-24-mar-1/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review of Feb 17-Feb 23 ; plan for Feb 24-Mar 1 | [03:44] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/rmd-review-feb-17th-23rd-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Feb 17th-23rd, 2020 | [04:42] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/rmd-plan-feb-24-28th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Feb 24-28th, 2020 | [05:03] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: yeah, no need to ping, I ~always follow one way or another what I asked for and with a deadline at that. | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | lol, scaaaary! | [06:31] |
| jfw: | whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Feb-2020#1019245 – the not being listed in /dev resolved itself then? | [14:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-22 23:18:16 whaack: jfw: I selected /dev/sdb in parted and used the command print. I got the error 'Error: /dev/sdb: unrecognised disk label | [14:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-21 22:43:53 whaack: B: I used a command, mkfs.ext4, on my hdd before fully understanding the command. Now my hdd is not listed in /dev/ and I don't know why. WTI: I don't know what to say. Obviously, don't use commands before understanding what they do. | [14:13] |
| jfw: | whaack: the buffer I/O errors in the kernel log are something to look into. Could mean failing drive, loose connection or something. It does bother me how unspecific they are, unless there's some meaning hidden that I just can't decode yet. | [14:16] |
| jfw: | whaack: I don't have specific reading to recommend on circuits, but brushing up on the basics of electricity & magnetism wouldn't hurt; from that article I get the idea your HS physics teacher slept through his own lectures too (whether or not words were coming out of his mouth) and | [14:39] |
| jfw: | would assume Ohm's Law got lost somewhere alongside f=ma | [14:39] |
| jfw: | whaack: on the practice side, maybe get some breadboard and parts to play with, build some beginner projects based on schematics | [14:48] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes the /dev/ has resolved itself… I'm not quite sure how/why. As root, sometimes ls shows about 15 entries in that folder, sometimes it shows 190+ | [15:07] |
| jfw: | lol, 15, really? I suspect incorrect usage of measuring stick | [15:17] |
| jfw: | now, udev is a thing, which adds and removes nodes based on hotplug events from the kernel, so it's indeed possible the sdb came and went based on those I/O errors / driver resets. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: beware of problems that "resolve themselves" , lolz | [15:22] |
| whaack: | jfw: Sigh, I have to come admitting more stupidity. I was judging the content of the folder half of the time based off of what i saw from hitting tab twice, not from using ls. ls always gives ~190 entries. | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: is that comment clear to you? | [15:23] |
| whaack: | most files are not executables nor directories so..they're missing from the display of tab auto complete. I had the mistaken idea that sdb1 should be a folder. | [15:24] |
| whaack: | sdb1 is a folder/directory* | [15:24] |
| jfw: | whaack: ahh so not even tab complete in file context, which should be ~same as ls, +- dotfiles, but in command context, right. | [15:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It seems so with respect to measuring times. With respect to grouping the tasks, I have a suspicion something in the line of: Things I'm already comfortable with versus things I need to learn may be a useful grouping | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Feb-2020#1019312 – not that I'm against whaack's need to brush up on basic physics and all that but how did it come to circuits, what did I miss? | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-24 14:39:07 jfw: whaack: I don't have specific reading to recommend on circuits, but brushing up on the basics of electricity & magnetism wouldn't hurt; from that article I get the idea your HS physics teacher slept through his own lectures too (whether or not words were coming out of his mouth) and | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: no, grouping is by topic, not by your comfort level, lolz | [15:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Alright | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | if you want to add the comfort level for your own measurement, add it, sure | [15:26] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Feb-2020#1019266 re circuits | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-23 19:09:33 whaack: infamous for. A recommendation on a textbook or source to learn about circuits would be greatly appreciated. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | but you can't do a meaningful grouping by a thing that is anyway first of all your characteristic rather than of those things you aim to group and second anyway poorly defined & not exactly measurable as such either. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, I see; anyways, forrest mims on electronics probably but before that …basic physics indeed. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ^ | [15:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | thank you for the clarification | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: the point of the grouping is to see which directions you are covering and to what extent; ideally you'll also notice from the exercises directions that are missing/not covered – but this would work better indeed if you had already even a draft plan re wut-do-with-qntra since that's the focus anyway | [15:30] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Feb-2020#1019314 not a bad idea. I have some potential kits in mind -> http://ossasepia.com/2019/08/12/camera-tests-of-a-sunday/ | [15:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-24 14:48:21 jfw: whaack: on the practice side, maybe get some breadboard and parts to play with, build some beginner projects based on schematics | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is it fair to say that your planning/daily schedule actually works quite fine for you (except when/if you have in there some of the eeek-factor tasks)? | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol, if it serves, then why not! | [15:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it's been working pretty well, if not 100\% | [15:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'll push to get that draft out tomorrow or wednesday. Right now, the mid and long term are where I am seeing the least clarity | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: eh, next you'll carefully observe that efficiency in practice is *also* (annoyingly! inadmissibly!) not 100\%! | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: hopefully you do realise that there's a different level of detail that is required and makes sense for each level there, right? | [15:38] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: efficiency is never 100\% even in theory, heh | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | aka by "clarity" you are not looking to see concrete detailed steps for the mid and long term | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ha, you admit plainly to it!! heh. | [15:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The realization that this isn't a gathering of fortune tellers did occur to me, but the fineness and broadness out on each level is… not something I've had much practice weilding. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: the more reason to get out a draft faster rather than slower since there's not much to gain by …waiting; it's through iteration you can get better at it, not through staring at it for longer; anyways, the main idea there is to take your aim and then look to identify as many directions towards it, pretty much; do understand that it's not some "promise" ie don't block anything too early, there's plenty of time to … | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | … prune/change any plans. | [15:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Alright, I'll aim to minimizing the staring before publication when I pick it back up again this evening. | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | sounds good; can anyway stare at it to your heart's content *after* publishing,lol. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: talking of publishing and staring – any eta for your next article? | [15:49] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: 22:00 UTC. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | nice. | [15:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I've grouped the items by which hat I'm wearing and flagged, for myself, the items including more of that scary unfamiliarity. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you missed 9, lol | [16:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | Ah, ty. Can't let that important personal management task fall on the floor. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: and huh, is 4 (reviewing contributors' submissions) scary too? | [16:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It doesn't strike me as scary, but reviewing his homework as part of the course is a newer, less familiar thing. So I decided to bias towards flagging it. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | I guess you can directly tell there now just by the number of tasks in each group how the whole is skewed. | [16:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | The skew is a lot more visible after the grouping. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, it's fine for this week for starters, but yeah, need to see it and consider it as it shouldn't keep going /get worse. | [16:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Thank you. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | yw | [16:21] |
| jfw: | beholds his impressive powers of non-starting and chickens out of today's ETA. | [17:53] |
| jfw: | I'll scrape some corrosion from my battery terminals and retry for 19:00 UTC tomorrow. | [17:54] |
| whaack: | jfw: Sometimes when I type mklabel in parted and pass 'gpt' the command works, and I can correctly see the label with print. But when I tried to make a file system with mkpartfs I hit some errors in parted and dmesg gave me quite a few messges http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=0n4u . Tomorrow I'll try connecting the sata cable to a new slot on the mobo. | [23:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Feb 2020
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-22#1019165 << I'll be honest, I spent Friday night and today on 100\% leisure activity (socializing, which honestly I kinda needed). Still I missed Friday's update since I felt guilty for not doing any work. | [00:23] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-02-22 19:16:45 diana_coman: lobbes: how's the server setup, is it really going to eat up the whole weekend+ ? | [00:23] |
| lobbes: | But to answer your Q directly: it really shouldn't take up the whole weekend; I aim to head to bed now and get an early start on it all tomorrow. I don't have anything else planned tomorrow except that (and eating I guess). | [00:23] |
| lobbes: | to sleep | [00:23] |
| diana_coman: | obbes: eh, balance is key, what; but this sort of "won't say it because feels guilty" is some ~15 years of age, not 30+, wtf; the situation is already there whether you say it or not, so saying something about it can only have benefits really. | [05:12] |
| diana_coman: | hm, lobbes ^ | [05:13] |
| whaack: | in lulz found from checking/reading through the megalogger this morning http://archive.is/E7iJ8 "The Criminal Assets Bureau (Cab) has confiscated the 12 online accounts, or wallets, containing 6,000 bitcoin. However, The Irish Times has learned the accounts cannot be accessed because the codes are missing. | [10:19] |
| whaack: | It means the €53.6 million monetary value of the bitcoin inside them, which is the biggest case in the Cab’s 25-year history, is out of the bureau’s reach. | [10:19] |
| whaack: | Garda officers said they were hopeful advances in technology would one day enable them to access the bitcoin so it could be sold." | [10:20] |
| whaack: | Maybe one day PRB will give them the advance in technology they're hoping for | [10:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: roger that on the balance, I feel a bit better hearing you confirm it tbh. And I agree that I gotta stop with the weird habits of avoiding speaking up (especially over simple shit like that) | [15:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: as for our standing meeting today, I have nothing specific to discuss. Today I'm just planning on getting as much of the server set-up complete as I can. It has been smooth so far this morning as I have mainly just been retracing my notes from last time | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: ok; maybe if the server setup really takes 1 full day, keep an eye as you go as to what /how to make it faster for next time at least. | [15:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: My first weekly plan has been published on Young Hands | [17:13] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/23/ar-plan-february-24th-march-1st-2020/ << Young Hands Club — AR Plan February 24th – March 1st 2020 | [17:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | Ah, I guess I didn't need to ping that. | [17:18] |
| whaack: | When attempting to jump my car (didn't work, btw) I had to sit through cackles of laughter from those helping me as I connected the negative clamp to the chasis on the dead car. I was considered a silly gringo for not connecting it to the negative terminal of the dead battery. I tried to convince them that this was the proper way, having done research prior and reading about the chance of a spark | [19:09] |
| whaack: | exploding the battery. They insisted on connecting the clamp to the negative terminal, so I shrugged and watched from a safe distance. Anyways, I'm sharing this anecdote because this scene made me think a little harder about the circuitry of jumping a car and I must admit I have some gaps in knowledge/understanding that my alumni of my alma matter are | [19:09] |
| whaack: | infamous for. A recommendation on a textbook or source to learn about circuits would be greatly appreciated. | [19:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The car not successfully jumpstarting did produce information that will be useful tomorrow when you take the car into the shop. | [19:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | At any point did you disconnect the terminals from the battery and check their condition? | [19:19] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Feb-2020#1019144 http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Feb-2020#1019145 I left these unanswered. jfw: Starting the car would make the dashboard flicker and cause a series of repeated clicks. I was able to start the car one day later. Then after I turned it off it would not start again. After attempting to jump the car the series of clicks no longer | [19:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-22 00:18:41 jfw: and "would not start" too, lol. Wouldn't crank at all? Any lights? | [19:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-22 05:20:51 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Feb-2020#1019138 – lmao; should I even ask if you checked the battery at least? (if you even have what to check it with…?) ; but surely the taxi-pal sorted it all out by now, right? | [19:20] |
| whaack: | happens. Now the lights go on and there is no noise at all. diana_coman: I did not have anything to check the battery when the problem occured. I took my multimeter today and read a bit about problems with car batteries before looking at the car. The terminals were fairly corroded. I cleaned them with a solution of water and baking soda that worked very well. Then I measured the voltage between | [19:20] |
| whaack: | the terminals – 12.5V. Then I turned on the car (not staring the engine) and let the headlights on for a minute. The voltage dropped to 8V. | [19:20] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: The wrench I brought to disconnect the terminals was the wrong size so I only cleaned what I could with them still connected. | [19:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | takes a deep breath, strongly recommends not cleaning connected terminals. | [19:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Alright. The place where corrision can cause or contribute to the problem you are having is on the part of the terminal that screws into the battery and makes contact. | [19:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | More properly the the battery cable's terminal. | [19:37] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Okay that makes sense why the most important part to clean requires disconnecting the terminals. I am guessing your deep breath was because I did something dangerous most likely to myself and possibly the car. | [19:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It probably would have been more dangerous if the other side of the terminals wasn't likely incredibly corroded as well. | [19:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The traditional solution to this problem among the people I grew up with involved disconnecting the terminals, scraping off "enough" corrosion, and then jumping the car/replacing the battery. | [19:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | But replacing the cables and battery normally isn't particularly expensive than replacing the battery on its own when that sort of corrosion builds up over decade+ spans of time. | [19:46] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I didn't understand that last message | [19:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: So the battery can be replaced, and it gets replaced because it needs to be. The battery cables can be replaced as well. Cleaning the cable's terminals from time to time is a frequently useful stopgap, but when they are old and profoundly corroded… the time has probably come to replace the cables. | [19:51] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: k, ty for the clarification. I will get new cables if I discover they are quite worn. | [19:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | I sounds like you've discovered on your own that they are quite worn. | [19:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suscpect the Ticos are going to be inclined to simply scrape off enough corrosion with a screwdriver to get contact with a battery working again. | [19:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | That's almost certainly happened numerous times in your car's 16 or 17 years of life. | [19:58] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: From jumping with someone who owns 8+ cars and jumper cables but did not know you could connect the cable to the chasis on the dead car, I gather that people here do not research how to do things and instead learn only from experience. This could be true also with the mechanic, so I will consult with the mechanic and use his tools but I will take his advice with a grain of salt and | [20:04] |
| whaack: | try my best to figure out the problem on my own as well. | [20:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | back in old country got good at taking apart the window and door lock switches in my car. A couple, the ones that actually got used, would get this carbon buildup. The contacts were clearly worn in a mechanical sense, but I kept cleaning them until cleaning wasn't enough. It took a winter week of open driver's window for the new switch to come. | [20:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | didn't stay in the US with that car long enough to see the new switch fail, but I suspect its still going if the car is. | [20:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | back after walking around the block trying not to vomit too much of my car ownership experience into the thread and crowding out room for learning. | [20:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: So cars have obvious wear items. These include oil, tires, batteries, and other items rated for a certain number of miles or years before replacement is recommended on a schedule. Over a car's first five or even 10 years of life, it is possible to not see anything outside of the scheduled items wear. | [20:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | On a longer time horizon, everything on car is a wear item | [20:41] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/wh-review-of-week-19-feb-17th-feb-23rd/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 19 (Feb 17th – Feb 23rd) | [21:42] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Heh maybe I should sit down for coffee with every a few used car owners and asked them about their relevant woes. | [21:43] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/24/wh-plan-for-week-20-feb-24th-mar-1st/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 20 (Feb 24th – Mar 1st) | [21:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It probably couldn't hurt too much, but the exercise will require quite a bit of sharpness looking for patterns that get people into trouble. | [21:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I got to work quickly after waking up. WTI: I will work on reducing the time between when my eyes open and when I am seated at my desk attacking my first task. B: I didn't get to working on my article/outline until the evening and did not wind up making any progress at all. WTI: I should have announced in the morning my further delay on this assignment. I focus on | [23:51] |
| whaack: | announcing any delays asap. | [23:51] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Feb 2020
| jfw: | whaack: I get the idea you're talking about an external hdd, maybe usb, though you don't say so. Normally mkfs shouldn't make device nodes come and go or even change the partition table at all. Checked the syslog + kernel log? | [00:15] |
| jfw: | re the car, yeesh, electrical AND transmission problems at once? Might help to provide some detail on "haywire" and "felt very off" | [00:17] |
| jfw: | and "would not start" too, lol. Wouldn't crank at all? Any lights? | [00:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Feb-2020#1019138 – lmao; should I even ask if you checked the battery at least? (if you even have what to check it with…?) ; but surely the taxi-pal sorted it all out by now, right? | [05:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-21 22:16:05 whaack: diana_coman: ahh.. I can't help but think you will get some joy out of reading this message. Not because you wish me ill but because you'll be glad luck didn't prevent me from being punished for a mistake. The RAV4 is currently out of operation on the side of the road near my surfpal's house. The dashboard lights went haywire and something felt very off with the transmission as I was dropping him | [05:20] |
| diana_coman: | I hope the surfpal at least rubbed it in properly since it's amply deserved. | [05:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I see a great day of lulz! | [05:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Feb-2020#1019143 – you know, maybe his car is running windows? | [05:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-22 00:17:37 jfw: re the car, yeesh, electrical AND transmission problems at once? Might help to provide some detail on "haywire" and "felt very off" | [05:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Feb-2020#1019136 – glad to hear it! (and I can quite picture it too, heh) | [05:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-21 16:38:07 jfw: And regarding the wallet. That was the fitting of the keystone into a bridge quite some time in the making, I carried a Cheshire cat's grin upon considering it all. | [05:42] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=AcFn | [06:16] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: do write up your plan with concrete tasks you aim to do over the next week; you can choose your deadline as it suits you on this but my reading window for those is most usually Monday morning UTC | [06:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: from that comment, you actually have in there quite some seeds for at least one part of your qntra strategy and otherwise re steps for automation (and in general for tasks) – you need to identify what are the machine-tasks essentially … | [06:22] |
| diana_coman: | … as opposed to "take a browser" | [06:22] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: for all new stuff, the iterative learning process goes 1. make a draft 2. ask for feedback 3. implement feedback to have another version of the draft 4. repeat from 2 until feedback comes back ~it's fine. | [06:24] |
| diana_coman: | and for everyone else struggling with new/never-did-before-stuff, seriously, the above ^ | [06:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you, I'll start with my deadline set at 23:59 UTC on Sundays. | [12:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | Unloading the unproductive sort of urgency that had been congesting the brain has been a great help in backing out of the "throw things, test against what sticks" process into "pause and read docs" | [12:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | In other news, a number of visible trb nodes have been wedged for some time. | [13:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | has this sort of soft, squishy hypothesis that too many folks setting their version string at 99999 and not enough trb nodes set at lower 50400 to 70001 versions strings leaves the network vulnerable to getting congested with oversized segwit blocks from out of WoT nodes. | [13:31] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: I was just noticing my own not getting blocks (even bastards), upon attempting to use it for some testing. I haven't taken a systematic look but I have the notion this happens with some frequency, contrary to some claims that the sync worx fine | [13:32] |
| jfw: | I've been known to swap in a non-malleus_mikehearnificarum build when this happens and presently that seems to have worked. | [13:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: My one node that survived this event was 143.202.160.10:8333 running version flag 70001 | [13:32] |
| jfw: | I'm flying the jolly 99999 roger | [13:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: The uncomfortably squishy part is that both of these solutions broaden the space of "heathen" nodes that could hand over a valid block. | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Maybe it's the case I've got some projection leaking into this thought, but the trb-verse problem seems to have parallels to the Qntra problem in a sort of defensive stagnancy coupled with bravado obscuring a lack. | [13:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | Differently framed: While the potential code problem may be more attractive, there seems to be a network graph problem that's consistently escaped notice. | [14:14] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: manpower at least is a none-too-obscured lack | [14:24] |
| jfw: | as far as stagnancy, I've certainly felt the lack of basic stuff like getblock, getrawtransaction and sendrawtransaction. And documentation of ~anything. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo, jfw well, there's been ~0 work on trb for quite a while and moreover nobody really owns it explicitly to start with. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's your status/plan for the plan & review this week? | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | also, is the writing again stuck or falling by the wayside due to focus on the wallet or what? | [15:18] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I need to check on plans this evening; depending on that I'll do the review then or tomorrow. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: in other words, most likely similar to last week, lolz. | [15:20] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I think the writing vs. wallet has been more a matter of resistance to getting started and turning to other work to at least get something done. I have things to write on too, just need to buckle down and do it | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | adds to the list of things to ponder just wtf are deadlines such a difficult thing for others. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: where are you with all the pending stuff anyway? | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how's the server setup, is it really going to eat up the whole weekend+ ? | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: honestly, I'm really happy to hear of your progress on the wallet; there is at least that. | [15:27] |
| jfw: | thanks diana_coman, glad to hear it. | [15:27] |
| jfw: | better if more progress on 'fixing my head' too as BingoBoingo puts it, I know. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | myeah; I guess I might need to look for a bigger hammer in the end, dunno. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do tell me something – is the wallet work otherwise really taking up all time/mind-space or is it just that there's ~always something else found to fill the non-wallet space or what exactly? | [15:30] |
| jfw: | it doesn't soak up all the time, no. so as to what does… I guess it's reading or thinking but not being efficient about it | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you figure out any usefulness for those weekly reviews? | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the above is re this comment | [15:36] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I haven't taken a proper look at them; but at least they get me to look closer at what's going on and keep a record | [15:38] |
| jfw: | kinda looks like I ignored the comment, huh. I didn't exactly; thought "that's a good idea, I should take the time to do those things"; but then didn't make the time | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, all the good intentions, I know. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: revised outline in a tree structure. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=zXWZ There is room for improvement, but this is what I could produce in 2 hours. I tried to make every node in the tree be a statement that somehow supports / explains its parent node. For the formatting, I used emacs org mode syntax and added a new line everytime the next node was higher in the tree than the node on | [16:09] |
| whaack: | the current line. | [16:09] |
| whaack: | jfw: All the warning lights on the dashboard went on, the fuel guage / spedometer all dropped to E/0, and the radio turned on/off repeatedly. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack:well, structure is better; content, uhm; listen, "links to parent node" is one thing, but *how* it links is more important, lolz. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for example, just what/why is jwrd now all of a sudden a …reason?? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | what is this, fashion or thinking? | [16:16] |
| whaack: | jfw: It's hard to remember what specifically happened with the transmission. The car seemed to switch gears abruptly. It lunged forward abruptly as I was either slowing down or speeding up. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: have a look at this re-write of your first points there: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=VotQ | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you have any sort of warranty or insurance for this sort of thing? | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | or what's your plan there anyway? | [16:22] |
| jfw: | whaack: sounds like possibly not a matter of switching gears but the engine losing/regaining ignition which would fit with the electrical symptoms. Still you'll need someone who knows where the alternator is to troubleshoot I imagine, not really sounding like a novice job | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re outline, basically you have a topic (building that local otc network) and then you have clear subtopics that flow naturally, the why build it, the *how* build it at the very least, possibly the previous experience to the extent that you use it to add to the discussion rather than just sticking it on the side. | [16:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I put jwrd there because I see their business model as a great example of building a network of motivated people. But I see that doesn't quite make jwrd a "reason" to build out a btc otc network | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so sure, it can go as example and source of inspiration but it's not a reason, no. | [16:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I don't have warranty or insurance on the car. I am going to take it to the mechanic on Monday. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: kind of hard to imagine though that this somehow just happened now the first time or something, huh. | [16:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. Given I bought it used recently the probability this is a serious problem and not something simple like a broken alternator is much higher. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re that past experience with otc, if you want to focus on it as such, it probably makes an article on its own of the sort "lessons learnt" or "funny recollections" or whatever; but if you stick it in this one, then it's likely it can go either as concrete examples/supporting evidence to/for some points/choices you make or otherwise possibly *against* not taking other paths, not sure I see atm other places where it would … | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | … easily fit as such. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you see the core difference between your points and my re-write there? | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I heavily considered making it its own article and/or taking it out of this one. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what are the reasons why you decided it better goes in this article then? | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was thinking about excluding it because I wasn't sure if it fit in the article. Then when I thought "oh i see, I can include it as a list of things to remember going forward" I decided to stick it in. I can see now that I munged it so it fit. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that is also *not* at all "heavily considered", lolz. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: out of pure curiosity, just what would be "lightly considered" if the above is the heavy version? | [16:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the adverb is useless. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | and misleading | [16:38] |
| whaack: | internally I thought "leave it in.. no no take it out… no leave it in.. no no take it out" about 2-4 times, instead of just once | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | the poor adverb is just misused really; and otherwise the misuse is -unsurprisingly- not helping you at all, no. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that is called "I hesitated on whether to include it or not and couldn't make up my mind" | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | nothing to do with an actual consideration at all really. | [16:40] |
| whaack: | yes, that is the proper way to phrase what I did. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | I'm working on obtaining a good understanding of the difference between my outline and your revision | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: try to add/continue on that revision, at any rate. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The main difference I see is that your outline does a better job at making sure the content is in line with the tree structure. Specifically, in your outline it is clear how a child node relates to ALL of their parents, not just their immediate parent. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, that is given once you do it properly (because guess what, you are related to your grandparents too, not only to your parents, lolz) | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: deeper levels should detail (various aspects of) the higher levels, it's not just this sort of superficial "related" as in "oh, if I can find *something* in common then they are related" | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | and that is really the deeper difference – your outline just mix-and-matches stuff; despite its pretended tree structure, it's still as flat and 2d as it can be; it's not a tree, but at most an image of a tree. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if it helps, perhaps think of it as a boxes-inside-boxes structure, that's how it works, you should be able to open it up/close it to any level and it should still make FULL sense. | [17:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. The error began with my process at looking at my previous outline and thinking "how do I treeify this". I believe I understand what you mean by the boxing/unboxing. (Org mode actually has the ability to hide/show the contents under any asterisk level) | [17:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't know if I fully understand what it means for a point to detail a higher level. How does "why build it?" detail "build a local btc network in guanacaste". I see various types of nodes. Some (like why build it) must be expanded. Leaf nodes obviously can't be expanded. Some, like "finding others with similar mindset (intelligent, self-reliant, ??)", could serve on their own or be | [17:11] |
| whaack: | expanded | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: building something implies among others a "why", doesn't it? | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | well, if it is proper building, true. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | to the extent that your focus is on the building rather than the otc term, the detailing goes on to look at what building that thing is all about; and logically speaking you start with…why do it at all, no? | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: to contrast perhaps – you could find "related" by the sort of "word association" in which case it could be just about anything really, but to give an example, perhaps it goes "building otc network -> my experience selling btc for weed" | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, re leaf nodes, it's not necessarily that they *can't* be expanded; it simply is that the author doesn't care to expand it further for this specific outline/article, that's enough. | [17:21] |
| whaack: | laughs, and then sighs | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: btw, all the above discussion of tree-structuring might be of use to you too. | [17:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Alright. I was hung up on the wording of the node "Why build it" because I saw it as something that *must* be expanded. (As opposed to my previous "There are multiple reasons why I want to build network of people to trade with." which is a dull sentence, but it stands on its own) | [17:24] |
| whaack: | For log reference: my original 2d outline: http://archive.is/S0EKZ , my 2d outline that tries to disguise itself as a tree: http://archive.is/7tq64, diana_coman's revision of my fake tree outline: http://archive.is/DmJAA | [17:30] |
| whaack: | jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Feb-2020#1019142 It's an internal drive, the hdd I have purposed for backing up my computer. I did not have syslog setup. I installed it with 'yum install syslog' (from my understanding this adds extra logs to /var/log/messages) These are the results of lsblk and lsblk -f http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Pf_u | [22:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-22 00:15:53 jfw: whaack: I get the idea you're talking about an external hdd, maybe usb, though you don't say so. Normally mkfs shouldn't make device nodes come and go or even change the partition table at all. Checked the syslog + kernel log? | [22:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: I selected /dev/sdb in parted and used the command print. I got the error 'Error: /dev/sdb: unrecognised disk label | [23:18] |
| whaack: | jfw: Then I ran 'mklabel gpt' and saw the following from dmesg: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=-E0k | [23:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I asked for help in various ways. WTI: I'll continue to work on asking for help right away when "figure it out yourself" is expensive. B: I ate a bowl of some sugary cereal for breakfast. I had less energy throughout the day and I blame the lazy dietary decision. WTI: Start my day with something like the hearty local dish gallo pinto w/ eggs, sausage, and the like. | [23:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I messaged every business near me (there were 8) that was listed on coinmap.org. WTI: Make sure to iterate through thoroughly even when things look hopeless. B: I am a little disorganized with TheFleet. It is deployed but certain parts of the code could be cleaned. I'm connected to some networks on 1 VM | [02:32] |
| whaack: | some other networks on another. I have all the info written down but I am worried I am building a house of cards for myself. WTI: Ask for organizational help. | [02:32] |
| whaack: | jfw: hey, nice! | [02:32] |
| whaack: | I attempted to connect to 145 networks tonight. As of now I am connected and actively logging 100/145. | [02:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Feb-2020#1018959 – oh hey, well done! | [04:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-20 23:45:44 jfw: And the Scheme wallet spits out babby's first signed raw transaction. | [04:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what are "goals" for you when writing? | [04:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's missing in there is the underlying tree structure of the reasoning you are trying to write down; more fundamentally, until and unless you approach writing as what it should be – aka an exercise in *thinking and reflection* – rather than a "text production" process, you'll keep ending up with … | [04:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 17:13:46 diana_coman: dorion: how about those steps: aim first for a minimal tree with the root tmsr-os itself, see what you get on that, include branches on environment as much as you consider relevant | [04:45] |
| diana_coman: | … infuriating drivel really, by necessity. | [04:45] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Feb-2020#1018956 – nice! I will get today to that article too, only a bit later. | [04:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-20 20:19:20 BingoBoingo: http://bingology.net/2020/a-homework-assignment-from-diana_coman-trawling-ancient-pms-seeking-what-worked-for-early-qntra-and-where-im-at-on-scripting-a-conversion-engine/#comment-1814 << Open problem in my statement of problems solved by reading docs for more tools | [04:47] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Feb-2020#1018946 <– ty, updated article | [05:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-20 15:39:16 diana_coman: spyked: comment in your modq | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: http://bingology.net/2020/a-homework-assignment-from-diana_coman-trawling-ancient-pms-seeking-what-worked-for-early-qntra-and-where-im-at-on-scripting-a-conversion-engine/#comment-1821 | [09:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: ty, digesting | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: what's your background actually? | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | I vaguely know you have a degree in something humanities-related (librarian?) but that's about it | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | and although you seemed totally fine with hardware and routers and the sort, there's weird going on re programming. | [09:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Majored in philosophy with minors in mathematics and economics as an undergrad at Mckendree College in Lebanon, Illinois. Did two years of graduate coursework in philosophy at SIU with the second year mostly spent looking for an exit from the insane environment. Ended up getting a Master's in Library Science from the University of Missouri. | [09:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | I did take two introductory computer science courses as an undergrad that consisted of MS Visual C++ that culminated in Object Orientation | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | well, could have been possibly worse – excel. | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | (who the fuck comes up with names like Lebanon, Illinois; boggles the mind). | [09:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's what they did in the in the early 19th Century, recycling place names. | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: what does "graduate coursework" mean? | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | well, previously there was at least the decency of adding "new" (as in new york, new england, new fuck) | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | but this sort of "we'll make our local Lebanon" is something else; (then again, I suddenly recall there was some new-money-romanian in the '90s who made his "Eiffel tower" in the middle of the nowhere plains; perhaps it's just lucky that Romania is way smaller so even the nowhere plains are not that big). | [09:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I went in with the idea I'd get a Phd took classes, was a teaching assistant for some intro to logic sections. | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ah, I see; and what/why the environment insane /more insane than you knew it as a student? | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | you know, philosophy, mathematics, economics, library and a sprinkle of practical computer science sounds even not bad at all on the face of it. | [10:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | Taking in my fellow students at various stages of that journey, I came to realize that studying philosophy in Southern Illinois was at dead end. The department there had a fascination with "American Philosophers" which for them meant John Dewey, and I found Dewey's "History will end in Hugging" to be… | [10:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | Just wtf | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [10:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | Everything before 1910 was treated as "History of Philosophy" in the courses, and the treatments were… glib | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: but dunno, why not look further afield then? and I do mean – outside the US, what. | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | I don't think the US has *ever* had any sort of reputation in Philosophy, whether Illinois or Washington makes little difference from where I see it. | [10:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right, but I was at the time stuck hard in that bubble that comes with growing up in the zone without quite seeing it for what it is. | [10:06] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: what's that bubble, anyway? | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | as in "there's nothing outside" ? | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | or "there is no outside" ? | [10:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The one where the US is the biggest, richest, etc while the outside is old and talks funny. | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | heh, philosophy is generally speaking exactly old and talking funny :D | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, the "there's nothing outside", ok. | [10:09] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: was that Master's in Library Science better/worse/same? | [10:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Looking back, I left high school with far less cognitive dissonance stuck in my head than when I left US University. | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: do you mean that as "highschool was less fucked" ? because it can equally well be just a matter of age really. | [10:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The Master's in library science was different in that it actually graduated people. It was a swing to a different insane extreme. | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | ha; what's that new insane extreme? | [10:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The coursework never challenged. It was light. Classes introduced this as "this is what this does" without pushing into the how, or why. Most classes actually met, in person with great infrequency due to being "hybrid online" | [10:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | at the time felt I was learning more in my grad assistant gig sitting in on Pharmacy School lectures | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | ah, the watered down, degree shopfloor, aha; tbf the "library science" title is saying it all already, indeed. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | sadly it's not any extreme though, there's always more space downwards, as it pretty much *has to be*. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: was that highschool in a small/big/medium town/village/what? | [10:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: In a town of ~10,000 in a location that puts it in an odd state of being a far suburb that's also a hub for the more rural areas. | [10:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | The library science program I took actually managed to lose accreditation in 2015. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | lol! | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so what did you do after that library science escape from bad to worse? | [10:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I applied at a lot of libraries, I drank a lot of vodka, I looked for remote work opportunites online, drank some more, and imagined alt-histories where I had the sense to take enough biology and chemistry courses as an undergrad to do pharmacy school | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: why not actually (trying to, at least) go for that pharmacy school ? | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | is that where the vodka started? | [10:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It started to get really bad inside library school. I was incredibly bored. | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | I can quite imagine the boredom, certainly. | [10:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | I left highschool bright, but ignorant. I left university dull and broken. | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: eh, do realise you can never leave yourself though so might as well take charge and aim quite purposefully for what you want exactly, outside be damned and all that. | [10:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, looking for remote work brought me to looking at Bitcoin, and then came the dreams of "This might be the only thing with enough upside to climb out of this hole" | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: why did you leave the US anyway? (I know how it happened aka isp-need etc but that's not as much a reason as an opportunity you took – and good for you that you did, for sure) | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so what would you say "this hole" is/was? | [10:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Well, all that time in US university built a rather substantial pile of debt. The pile from undergrad wasn't so much, but the grad school pile… | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | ahh, right. | [10:35] |
| diana_coman: | I had forgotten that socialist accomplishment in mass-scamming, indeed. | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | managed to get mostly paid for being in academia, even as a student. | [10:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | let a chumpatron of the worst sort eat me. | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: how did you end up in/find tmsr (proto or whatevers) ? | [10:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Late 2012 I started exploring Bitcoin at the margins. Sometime in 2013 hanbot invited me to visit #bitcoin-assets. The first few months I'd stopped by infrequently, but by sometime in 2014 I'd become swept up into it. | [10:45] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: and then? what would be a summary timeline of your actions within, as you see it? | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | My recollection of the period between 2012 and 2015 isn't of very high resolution, but I started the blog in the second half of 2013. When cazalla got the offer to start a sort of news site in 2014, I offered to help him out with it thinking that having 2 folks would assist in preventing burnout. After cazalla left in 2015, I kept the thing going. | [10:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | Late October 2015 I started on a stretch of sobriety that lasted through my first month or two in Uruguay. When Qntra and so many other TMSR servers went offline in 2017 and with everyone else resisting the need to address the ISP project, I decided to give it a try if only to get Qntra back online. I had so thoroughly let my identity attach to doing Qntra, that I thought I could somehow learn enough as I go while managing to keep | [11:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | both things afloat. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: fwiw that might be what saved you anyway, regardless ofthe pizarro failure otherwise. | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: 1. still sober or not? 2. still identity attached to Qntra or not? | [11:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'm sober today, 24 hours at a time. | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | good, keep that up for sure. | [11:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: As far as identity attached to Qntra or not, I would like it to be. On the other hand I have to accept that without improving and accomplishing things, I'm rando mcnobody with a long string of failures. | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so count the long string of learning from failures rather than the fails; with both the isp and qntra though, the part that sticks out most as "must learn" is to aim for growth and for life, not for "keeping alive with an oxygen mask". | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: and there's this rather troublesome direction of the attachment – I'd see it attaching Qntra to self rather than the other way around | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | this is also why I was noting earlier that the what you like is weirdly missing from the picture almost entirely. | [11:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 18:10:48 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: you know, that's actually an interesting bit – I can almost say more about what you do NOT like than I can say about what you DO like; and the trouble with not-likes is that they are indeed not productive by nature; they can work as a sort of productive only once-removed (aka destroy/clear up/make space/maybe even motivate others to rebuild but not directly). | [11:14] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you know, you dug yourself out of several holes already and you brought others with you too with Qntra and moreover, you did carve your way in a different country and a foreign language and all that so there is quite clear evidence that you CAN do a lot – if you actually aim purposefully for clear doings though and don't get sidetracked/daydreaming/whatever it is that ends up eating you into passive "keep alive" mode. | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so I'll ask again explicitly – what is it that you actually want to do as your own? | [11:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | I want to do harm to the system I grew up in for as long as I can. | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: could work quite well actually so hold on to that then; (/me would add "as much as I can" but that's… me) | [11:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | It doesn't seem a very healthy want, but it is the most concrete want I have right now. | [11:23] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: eh, there's nothing better than proper hate to get one out of a deep hole. | [11:23] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so, through what means are you going to do that? | [11:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, grasping what I want, it occurs to me that since 2017 I've been using Qntra to vent hate without much looking into whether I'm actually doing harm. I need to improve my tools for making the distinction between doing hard and simply venting. | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | aha; quite a difference between venting and attacking, yeah. | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so if I understand it correctly, you do see Qntra as your main tool and focus, right? | [11:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | I'm going to eat awk and regex until I get sick, and then I'm going to eat it some more because I need these tools to help make the distinction. | [11:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I do indeed. | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: all right; do realise though that yes, you need sharping but so does Qntra if it's to serve properly and what/if it becomes depends currently quite entirely on what you *do*. | [11:29] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: whether you like it or not, you *are* effectively qntra's manager as well as editor in chief (and apparently CTO too) and so you really need to start wearing all those hats properly, you can't just wear the one you are most used to. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | you can however ask for help with whatever you need – just ask intelligently. | [11:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you for asking these questions, because in the high noise low results era of the Republic… organizing myself in this way… slipped through th cracks. | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome; you know, I meant that exactly as said, so I'm glad if I could help. | [11:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-15 13:50:00 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: all right; fwiw I fully appreciate your salvaging of hardware and data + the work to help people recover/get back online and if I didn't say anything so far is just because I knew you were busy and focused on this; but if there's any help you need, just speak up. | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: now back to here and #o – considering all the above as well, do you want yh access? | [11:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Considering all of the above, I do want it. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: all right, then you've got it and I will hold you up to the same standard as for everyone else; I'll set you up by the end of the week anyway and I hope you'll make the most use of it. | [11:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you for the opportunity. | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: yw; for now see to that comment and otherwise as background/longer term, do think of a proper strategy & plan for qntra, short, medium and long-term (that's your management hat). | [11:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-21 09:39:36 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: http://bingology.net/2020/a-homework-assignment-from-diana_coman-trawling-ancient-pms-seeking-what-worked-for-early-qntra-and-where-im-at-on-scripting-a-conversion-engine/#comment-1821 | [11:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I will get to work. | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ah, also, mind just using your own photo already? wtf do you need someone else's (be it even the only ~philosopher the US produced) as your profile pic? | [11:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I will repair that today | [11:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | also has Spanish class contending for my time this afternoon, but addressing the comment, fixing the profile picture, and getting a start on drafting short, medium, and long term plans can all be done before bed. | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | cool, sounds like the best sort of busy day really so good luck! | [11:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | I'm thankful for the clarity. | [12:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My goal when writing in general is to coherently display what is in my head. The "goals" in the outline was picking out what I want to display for this specific article. | [12:17] |
| whaack: | I understand that writing is an exercise in thinking and reflection. But perhaps my problem is that I am focusing on the question "how am I going to present these thoughts?" instead of "how can I organize my thoughts for myself?". If I can answer the latter properly then the answer to the former will follow. | [12:24] |
| whaack: | Changing my outlines to a tree structure instead of the rigid grade school topic/concluding + body paragraphs is a good start. | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes! and moreover, your aim should always be to *figure things out*, not to say this or that; ie you should be searching for the truth whatever it might be (and whatever existing belief/comfort it might require shattered in the process) | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | so you should have a topic, sure; and a scope, indeed; but not a goal of the moralist kind "now we shall prove this theory" | [12:29] |
| diana_coman: | it is more of the sort "here I am thinking on THIS topic" | [12:29] |
| diana_coman: | sure, once and AFTER you get THAT part well, you will indeed be in a position to pick and choose further refinements essentially and you'll have the capacity to choose the style and so on; but that's way, way further up that mountain. | [12:30] |
| whaack: | right, otherwise I'm putting lipstick on a pig. | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [12:32] |
| whaack: | On another topic, I have some questions regarding what to do next with TheFleet | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | shoot | [12:33] |
| whaack: | Last night the two armadas (armada = a set of bots all connected on 1 VM) logged 400,000+ lines and counting. There are 45 other networks that I was able to connect to and get their channel limits that my bots disconnected from for one reason or another. There are also probably 25-200 more networks that I could potentially log, but I was unable to get a list of channels from them. | [12:36] |
| whaack: | The code for TheFleet could be cleaned up. It may have been a mistake to send out the bots without giving the code more proofreads and revisions. I released it to meet my schedule / begin a rotation and because I believe I have a good grasp of what's going on + I tested everything and it looks like everything is working. | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, on one hand the "meet my schedule" is not a good reason for anything (other than shooting yourself in the foot); that aside though – why do you think it might be a mistake? | [12:42] |
| whaack: | I think it may be a mistake because if I say I logged X channels for Y days I want to have the absolute highest confidence possible that I was indeed logging those channels. And if there are unecessary components / complexity in the code that's logging the channels then I cannot have that "highest confidence possible" | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, that sounds well intended but quite confused; let's clear it up: you want more confidence in the claims you make as a result of running some code- this part is as it should be, indeed; you consider that unecessary components/complexity in the code are certainly in the way of having confidence in that code – while true as such, this is also 1. jumping some intermediate steps in the very statement so that it's … | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | … clearly..unclear 2. further making a jump from the original "want to have confidence in my claim" | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | for 1. confidence in your code doesn't come *directly* from little complexity; there can be as little complexity as one wishes – if you don't fully grasp what's going on, you'll still lack confidence; confidence is after all saying something about *your understanding*, not about the code. | [12:50] |
| diana_coman: | sure, less complexity makes it *easier* to understand it and grasp it; it still doesn't do anything by itself nor is it like that a hard prerequisite for having confidence. | [12:51] |
| diana_coman: | for 2. if you want to have confidence in a claim, you'd usually look to a. monitor rather than trust b. triangulate information that supports whatever claim you make (this includes making sure there is what to triangulate, ofc but that supposedly comes from a) | [12:53] |
| whaack: | Okay. For example I have a set of functions that I use to probe what's going on, some of which I no longer use. I guess having some of those still lying around is not so bad since they don't add much to the complexity (they don't interweave with the normal operations of thefleet) | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | c. (if needed, not always) have some redundancy | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, do they muddle up your understanding of what actually happens? no? then why would they lower your confidence in your own claim? | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | sure, it's not ideal code, not even good looking code and all that; but that's a *different* consideration, you can't muddle things up like this. | [12:55] |
| whaack: | I see, yes I was confusing two separate problems | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | "I am running this ugly code that I fully own however" is different from "I am running this code I found and uhm, I kind of hope it does X and moreover I fervently hope it doesn't do something worse either!!" | [12:56] |
| whaack: | lol | [12:56] |
| diana_coman: | lol as you wish but there's plenty of such lol around, heh. | [12:57] |
| whaack: | well i have the latter mentality with my os | [12:58] |
| whaack: | ok so with that distinction between clean code and understanding / having confidence in the code, I daresay I have a reasonable amount of confidence in thefleet's source and so while I'll review the codebase again a couple of times over I'll keep in mind that my goal is to make sure I understand what's going on + that the code is achieving my ends, rather than cleaning up the code for the sake of | [13:03] |
| whaack: | having "clean code" | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: indeed; obviously, as you go and if/when you see what to cut away as unnecessary, do it since it helps but don't end up in that trap of endlessly-polishing-the-code as if the polish is the very goal. | [13:05] |
| whaack: | Alright, I'm going to list off some other problems I need to solve: | [13:09] |
| whaack: | 1. I grabbed the channels for the networks I'm logging in… December or so. Some of the channels no longer exist, and there's probably new channels on these networks that may have some activity. | [13:10] |
| whaack: | 2. I can only connect 3 bots per IP to a network. For many networks this was enough to log all of their channels. However for some networks I'm logging atm there are many channels not being logged. I need to create a criteria for saying "I have successfully logged this channel, and I don't need to log it anymore" so that I can strike channels off a list and log the rest of the channels when I | [13:13] |
| whaack: | start my next rotation in a month or so. | [13:13] |
| whaack: | 3. There are a set of networks that I have a channel list for that I could not stay connected to. I need to investigate what went wrong with these networks. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | 4. There is* a set of networks that I could not get a channel list for, likewise I need to see what went wrong with them. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | 5. I am not logging ERR_BANNEDFROMCHAN and ERR_YOURBANNEDCREEP (banned from network) messages. | [13:16] |
| whaack: | ERR_YOUREBANNEDCREEP* | [13:16] |
| whaack: | That's it. The biggest question I have is (2). When can I mark a channel as being successfully logged, how do I keep track of all the successfully logged channels, and what should I do regarding logging new channels that get created from networks I had previously considered fully logged. | [13:18] |
| whaack: | er I guess 6. I need to devise a plan to log all of freenode. This is large enough task to be almost considered a separate project. | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: 2.1 channel successfully logged == at least 2 weeks of *continuous* logs for it 2.2 how do you keep track of it is up to you really – it depends on your setup, no? plan it so you reliably keep track, I don't see what your question is asking exactly | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | 2.3 this is where latency otherwise will keep biting you – if it takes you half a year to log what you have, ofc meanwhile there will be new chans and all that; so ideally – don't take that long! that being said, simply setup some interval where you scan for new chans and then add them to the list, aiming to gradually reduce the gap or something | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | 6 is not a question!! (not that the rest contained the slightest question mark explicitly but anyways) | [13:23] |
| whaack: | Sorry for just dumping my list of tasks I need to get done. I should have made it more clear that what I wanted was advice on which tasks to focus on. | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: logging + keeping track of logging sounds like first priority really, if it's not already in place. | [13:30] |
| whaack: | Systems are in placed to know what channels I'm connected to and when I have disconnected/rejoined. | [13:30] |
| whaack: | For 2 weeks of contiuous logging, if I disconnect + reconnect automatically at some point within the 2 week window I can still count the channel, right? | [13:32] |
| whaack: | still count the channel as logged* | [13:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, as long as the break disconnect/reconnect is not longer than a few minutes. | [13:33] |
| whaack: | Okay. I'll get to work creating a place/data structure where I keep a list of the successfully logged channels + a function that looks at a channels JOIN/DISCONNECT timestamps to determine whether or not the channel was logged successfully for 2 weeks. | [13:39] |
| diana_coman: | sounds like a plan. | [13:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: for my writing assignment for today should I redo my outline or go ahead with what I have and try to make an article out of it? | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: redo your outline, why would you persist without that? it's no trouble if you write&publish therefore tomorrow, is it? | [13:41] |
| whaack: | the answer to the question was obvious after I wrote out the question lol | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: btw, you have that course and it's a good thing to have so do aim to use it; sure, if you really have contributors that don't *need* it, fine; again, it's all right to give new contributors time to get to the point where they can see they need it; but getting contributors to graduate from it (either formally or informally aka actually having that knowledge) *should be* mandatory, there's no way around this. | [13:46] |
| jfw: | A hearty log breakfast of refining and structuring proper hate, purposes of writing and code cleaning. Thanks for the workout all! | [16:35] |
| jfw: | And regarding the wallet. That was the fitting of the keystone into a bridge quite some time in the making, I carried a Cheshire cat's grin upon considering it all. | [16:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Comment's responded to, avatar.png replaced, planning started | [21:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ahh.. I can't help but think you will get some joy out of reading this message. Not because you wish me ill but because you'll be glad luck didn't prevent me from being punished for a mistake. The RAV4 is currently out of operation on the side of the road near my surfpal's house. The dashboard lights went haywire and something felt very off with the transmission as I was dropping him | [22:16] |
| whaack: | off at his place. After I turned off the car it would not start again. | [22:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report G: I took the time to pay the debt of not setting up backup systems on my new computer. When mounting my HDD I had a few questions that lead me to reading about the ext4 file system and GPT (GUID Partition Table). WTI: When I have a specific question, instead of just trying to answer that question, try to find out what is the broader misunderstanding and learn that topic. | [22:43] |
| whaack: | B: I used a command, mkfs.ext4, on my hdd before fully understanding the command. Now my hdd is not listed in /dev/ and I don't know why. WTI: I don't know what to say. Obviously, don't use commands before understanding what they do. | [22:43] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright tomorrow I'll publish the outline I produce. | [01:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: TheFleet is looking stable. I removed the general "try catch" and now I instead have the various errors enumerated. The main issue I have now is with running out of memory. Being connected to 30 networks takes 1GB of RAM. WTI: Figure out exactly what is taking up all the memory. B: I wasn't so happy with the title of my most recent article. WTI: Develop a process for | [02:28] |
| whaack: | picking titles for articles. | [02:28] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: sounds productive in all sorts of unexpected ways, so no loss there at all; and no rush either. | [05:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that "process for picking titles for articles" brought to mind instantly the "process"- pick stuff out of a big hat, lolz; anyways – how do you/did you pick titles so far ? | [05:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The ancient PM logs lead to re-reading early Qntra pieces, in particular the "Hard Fork Missile Crisis" that the show of hands here revealed caught a lot of attention, even if not all readers showed up at the same speed or time. | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: nothing wrong with reviewing early or even past Qntra either but I wouldn't base a review on what was revealed meanwhile to have caught a lot of attention – first of all because it comes with the exact risks of all other towards-purposing and as a second consideration, given how late the reveal came, it follows that there might be other pieces that caught even more attention, only longer term or whatevers. | [11:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I wait until I'm finished with my article and then I pick the first title that comes to mind. I try to keep it simple and to the point | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that IS "using mind as big-hat-to-pick-from" ; a sort of simple-association or what? lolz | [11:36] |
| whaack: | yeah so many there is nothing wrong with my process and I just grabbed the wrong slip of paper yesterday | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: seriously, I can see a case for reviewing Qntra matter but then done as a proper review and that's quite a different thing; atm I would also say that there really are more pressing matters to finish first. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lolz, Fortuna is never wrong! | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you want the title to serve as? because depending on that you can aim to actually…write a title rather than glue on whatever label came at hand. | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | the fact that titles are generally shorter than the text itself does not mean that they are not text too or not written! | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: do you often end up like this going on 1001 tangents? do you always follow everything that comes up or how/where do you even stop (if you stop)? | [11:41] |
| whaack: | Well I see titles as a nice opportunity to be creative. I don't think they always need to serve as the same thing. Sometimes they can be a hook, sometimes they can be used to foreshadow, etc. | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what does it mean "to be creative"? | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | braces for the round-the-corner "expressing yourself" | [11:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Usually when assembling a piece to write I do hit on a number of these tangents that end up on the cutting room floor later. I'm better than I used to be at catching myself and stopping, but when writing longer form on the blog rather than short form on Qntra, I do tend to leave more text on the floor. | [11:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'll try to keep the scope in this review narrow and set aside the clipping to maybe come back to later. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: maybe just jot them down in a separate file as "to do/laters/ideas/whatever" – it's a matter of efficiency at the end of the day, esp if it turns out otherwise that most of it still just gets discarded rather than distilled. | [11:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol. It means to write like The Riddler. | [11:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Ok | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: do speak up though if you have a different view on this since hm, you know your process there way better ; I'm working on what you *said* about it and that's not much so if it doesn't fit…say more, please. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lolz, does the riddler even …write? I confess I'm only vaguely aware of the character. | [11:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: As part of how I've been trying to cover all the edges when doing long for deep dives on the blog, I tend to read wide and deep. On the scope of what cazalla and I did differently in the early days… The core could live in bullet points, and while that simplicity fits the scope, there's a part of me wondering if presenting a few bullet point and going over a few couple practical examples (Mostly the GAW Miners case) is | [11:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | going to appear too glib of a treatment. | [11:59] |
| whaack: | idk the character at all heh, I am going off of his name. I mean to say that since the title is not necessarily part of the path that guides the reader from point A to point B, it can take many different forms that the author can pick from. | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, it can *in the general* case but that is not the point; for any specific, given article/text, you still need to pick one aim (or even several but a clear & well defined (sub)set of aims) and then USE that; and ugh @ "going off of his name" wtf! | [12:14] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: are you saying there that you can't quite decide as to what's the best level of detail essentially? | [12:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I was stuck on it, but now I'm inclined to use the single example of the "GAW miners" case to illustrate the different level of aggression and leave the rest of the bits I'd started on to the side for potentially revisiting later. | [12:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | Bullet points for what I found different above the narrative of the GAW miners vase for illustration. | [12:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | *case | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: go for it then; do realise that it's first of all about what *you* consider useful, clear & sufficient. | [12:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Alright, this narrows things quite a bit. | [12:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: sorry for the mega stupid. I did not know of the character *at all* i just read The Riddler as someone who writes in riddles. But it is obvious The Riddler most likely refers to a literary/movie character and I should not have jumped to using his name in an explanation when I didn't know the reference | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah; just don't do this sort of thing, playing words by how they sound – it's the sort of thing that disqualifies one from civilised conversation, do you realise? | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: cool, good we talked about it and got it unstuck. | [12:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'm glad as well. | [12:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I understand that "playing words by how they sound" leads one to transmit packets of junk information. | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and more generally, when you meet/find/hear something you don't *know* – you *ask* what it is! | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: looking at that tmsr-os plan of yours, are you going to end up chasing yourself over it in the end? lolz. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: comment in your modq | [15:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. i've noticed i have a bad habit of not asking for clarification when I hear a Spanish word/sentence that I don't understand. It comes from a misguided attempt to not frustrate the person i'm speaking with / keep the conversation flowing. It's annoying to have to pause and ask for an explanation when someone tells a joke for example. But it's *way* worse, and even rude, to nod | [16:28] |
| whaack: | along without understanding. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for those cases where indeed you can't ask (maybe because you just overheard the word or whatever), you still go and look it up; essentially requesting unknown stuff is a duty not an option. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | the essential is that you do not *ignore* it and especially that you don't "guess" it and the use it or similar; whether asking on the spot or not depends on the exact situation & people/ | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | rather basic stuff really. | [16:44] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Feb-2020#1018945 – if that's what it takes. a reason jwrd activities/client meetings took priority this week was because carnivales starts this weekend and the city will be dead until ~wednesday. I have a follow up tomorrow, but after that I'll have more space to deliver on that plan. | [17:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-20 15:30:27 diana_coman: dorion: looking at that tmsr-os plan of yours, are you going to end up chasing yourself over it in the end? lolz. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ah, the latin/southern style of "work" (that I apparently happily forgot about as soon as I didn't have to put up with it anymore); at any rate, there's no trouble with "took priority" as such, more a note that it would be better if it doesn't end up ~took over. | [17:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Exercise accomplished http://bingology.net/2020/a-homework-assignment-from-diana_coman-trawling-ancient-pms-seeking-what-worked-for-early-qntra-and-where-im-at-on-scripting-a-conversion-engine/ | [17:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://bingology.net/2020/a-homework-assignment-from-diana_coman-trawling-ancient-pms-seeking-what-worked-for-early-qntra-and-where-im-at-on-scripting-a-conversion-engine/#comment-1814 << Open problem in my statement of problems solved by reading docs for more tools | [20:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have not yet read all the context required for that comment, but ack that one can't always get clarification immediately and that one should never guess (using i.e. "context clues") what something means. | [21:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My outline for tomorrow's article http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=8HbR | [21:05] |
| jfw: | And the Scheme wallet spits out babby's first signed raw transaction. | [23:45] |
| dorion: | w00t, congrats. | [23:58] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I have a better sense of how I want to go about filling the hours that are currently dedicated to saltmines from our discussion. WTI: I will work on asking for help in the right way for important decisions. B: Yesterday I prepared a pre-outline for today's outlining session. Today I improved that preoutline a bit and then tried to get a head start on writing tomorrow's | [00:04] |
| whaack: | article. I think I should have stuck to improving the outline before beginning the article. WTI: Do not skimp on the planning phase of writing. | [00:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018852 – so it would seem BingoBoingo would do indeed well to consider again the outreach of Qntra for readership too, huh. | [04:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 21:14:48 whaack: BingoBoingo: iirc http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ hooked me into reading trilema | [04:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018854 – congrats! | [04:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 21:38:56 jfw: oh hey, fixpoint gets its first spam. for …amoxicillin online! | [04:38] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Feb-2020#1018855 – by the sounds of it you really need to do some proper outline and consider it as such; maybe ask for some feedback on it, one day? | [04:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-19 00:04:34 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I have a better sense of how I want to go about filling the hours that are currently dedicated to saltmines from our discussion. WTI: I will work on asking for help in the right way for important decisions. B: Yesterday I prepared a pre-outline for today's outlining session. Today I improved that preoutline a bit and then tried to get a head start on writing tomorrow's | [04:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Reviewing the logs, there's one big high return activity that fell out of the routine between the fall 2017 downtime and February 2018 restoration. Picking fights with idiots to get the idiots to direct their audience towards Qntra. | [08:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: At this point it's looking clear that I have to stop letting other things keep pushing AWStats down the todo list indefinitely so I can get some readership information that isn't on a 5 year delay. | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: sounds like the log review is already starting to pay off; but do first finish the review and write-up, there's time afterwards to look at it all and use it properly, ok? | [09:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Ok, thank you. It isn't like access.log is going to run away. | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | exactly; and it waited so long, it can still wait a few days more | [09:21] |
| jfw: | This musl mission has definitely brought out some internal resistance/nervousness (neuroticism?) on my part. I felt it on sending the message, and even checking for responses. Perhaps a bit of conflict-avoidant nice-guy-ism – which I understand isn't actually nice to anyone least of all myself | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was it re "seasoned engineers" aka you looking up to them? or just that "ugh, gotta tell them what they won't like to hear"? or both? | [15:27] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: both | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, you did fine otherwise, it's not like there was any clear trouble on your part as such; sure, practice & experience will help further but I wouldn't say there's much to worry there at all. | [15:29] |
| jfw: | ty. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so given their response and overall approach – what's your take on them? | [15:30] |
| jfw: | well, the latest from the main guy – which I'll shortly link in #t – confirms that they're pretty set on this path and it was their goal from the start | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | ah, there's more to the drama! | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is it draining/tiresome on you otherwise? | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | (remembering from quite a few years back, there can be some added …dread/would-rather-not associated with ~omg, those were the intelligent ones, it just can't be that they are nevertheless THAT stupid because then it *really* sucks) | [15:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it has been somewhat tiring or perhaps distracting, I don't mean to complain though | [15:36] |
| jfw: | well, it doesn't surprise me at least that bright people can have strange notions deeply held | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | it's not about strange notions or about deeply held; it's about the consequence that ends up – then there's no help from those quarters and when that keeps adding up/repeating, it can be rather tiresome. | [15:40] |
| jfw: | suspected deserts becoming known deserts on exploration | [15:48] |
| jfw: | I think I do owe them a reply because at least the first guy asked a question but I expect that'll be it. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's the question? but at any rate, sure, reply and/or comment in there to your satisfaction that you said everything you wanted to have said. | [15:53] |
| jfw: | "Why do you not believe that musl could provide any of these features using clear and concise code?" | [15:55] |
| jfw: | which isn't what I said of course; and beside the point as I see it: doesn't matter how well you do something if you're doing the wrong thing | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and at any rate, it's precisely that change from "suspected deserts" to "known deserts" that matters and that is important; as it was said plainly, nobody really expected this to deliver in the sense of musl not going the unicode-way; nevertheless, it's only once attempted and experienced that it serves and can be pointed to as a fact. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: myeah, as it usually happens, they read what they had in mind, not what you wrote and that's where it breaks down; fwiw the guy in #t yesterday clearly hadn't done more than scan&get-annoyed-at-bad-attitude your message really. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | right | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but sure, do answer them, even as you did above if you want to; just do note that you can choose how you phrase your answer to basically inflame them further or not, it's quite up to you. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: how's the pms/logs/dig going time/effort-wise? | [16:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I did a second look after the first, but most of the reveals seem to be on the surface all in the first two months. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: do you mean that there wasn't much new attempted/discussed after that? | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, whatever is in there is what it is, not a problem; my question was re how much time&effort the review is eating up. | [16:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Reviewing the logs got 3 hours yesterday evening, another seperate 2 hour re-reads in the morning today. Write up has been started. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | meanwhile I reviewed your blog's archive and there's quite a lot in there too; fwiw, I think it's not at all that clear case of one-trick pony as such. | [16:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 18:02:02 BingoBoingo: I would like to start confronting my flaws in an organized way, becoming productive and escaping my worn schtick as a one-trick pony | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ah, that sounds not bad at all, glad to hear it. | [16:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Well, the logs got really short ad bursty after October 2015. Only a year of them, total. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: if anything, what strikes me after re-reading your blog is that you tend to go for a wide, far & high level view/vision of ~everything (which can and does btw deliver your best/signature style, that well-informed and right on target); but it's the closer to home that seems to be…less easily seen or noticed,somehow. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, looking forward to reading your write-up there and we'll see afterwards. | [16:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you. The temptation to keep throwing things at the command line to see what comes out persists, but I'll try to get the review published this evening. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | heh, so publish and *then* throw things at the command line if you must; and you're welcome. | [16:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Supplying links to support the observations has taken more time than I thought it would. I'm going to have to freshen the eyes and re-read. I seem to have escaped the problem scope in the writeup and going to have to pin down where I left the rails. | [21:13] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I produced my article for today in a timely manner. WTI: Continue to focus on creating well structured outlines + not spinning while writing. B: I failed to make any progress connecting with people who trade btc here. I searched for meetups but all I saw was blockchain events in San Jose. WTI: I can go to the various bitcoin related meetup pages and message everyone who | [01:06] |
| whaack: | is actively attending events, asking if they know anyone willing to sell some btc for cash near where I live. | [01:06] |
| diana_coman: | http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/who-said-that-or-the-importance-of-v/#comment-208 – whaack , you'll have to sing your vpatch nao! | [04:38] |
| jfw: | Now we know why music has all those key signatures! | [11:18] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: could you have a look at my draft musl missive at your convenience (after 7pm is fine)? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=gp4K | [11:46] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Feb-2020#1018607 – thanks for clarifying bvt; the joys of beholding this will await me. | [11:53] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-17 18:13:33 bvt: jfw: phf has fully done the job of vpatch parsing in ada, so not all string processing tasks in ada are hard; only if you go outside of the "string model" of the language this is the case; but specifically with ada, in some tasks you end up with 100x code for no clear benefit. | [11:53] |
| dorion: | whaack there may be people buying/selling btc at britneychain events. pretense, aside btc is > 90\% of actual trade and otc morseo, so shitcoiners still need the cash/btc trade. then they can sell their btc for alts on their decentralized exchanges or w/e. | [11:57] |
| feedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/18/strutting-waving-and-skin-sharing-euloras-defaults/ << Ossa Sepia — Strutting, Waving and Skin Sharing (Eulora's Defaults) | [12:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: If it's not too late, I would like to pledge as a page. This weekend as I turned 34, I was struck by terror as I pondered what exactly is inside my veins. Dread left me paralyzed. For years I've been trying to conquer my shortcomings as an independent, and I have failed. | [13:55] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-02-15 mp_en_viaje: i seriously do not wish to hear anymore from you. if all you've got inside is in that vein, do me the favour and make that your last word. | [13:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | I have to surrender, unguided I don't have the stuff. If you will have me, I'm ready. Please help me take the steps to stop being a lemon. | [13:55] |
| jfw: | tips his hat to BingoBoingo. | [14:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | I find myself powerless over my stupid and my life, to the extent I might still have one, has become unmanageable. | [14:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | to the grocery store | [14:14] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018610 bahaha, just waiting for billymg's vpatch viewer to include the necessary audio upload feature | [14:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 04:38:34 diana_coman: http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/who-said-that-or-the-importance-of-v/#comment-208 – whaack , you'll have to sing your vpatch nao! | [14:23] |
| whaack: | dorion: Alright, I will include the more politically correct words that signal a chance of bitcoin activity as keywords in my search | [14:27] |
| dorion: | whaack I said that to you, but wouldn't say that to the uninitiated. I was more saying don't give up on talking to them so fast. It's worth finding out if there are potential trade sources there because the reality is even if they're talking block chain, there is still probably a good percentage doing btc on the trade side. | [14:46] |
| dorion: | in my experience, many block chain/shitcoin people are open that they're only talking about/trading the alts to get more btc. | [14:47] |
| whaack: | dorion: do you think btc is where it stops, or are they in turn only interested in getting more btc to get more fiat? | [14:58] |
| dorion: | whaack hard to say generally outside of people have interest in making relationships to source liquidity in both directions. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | hello MrMeseekx ; what brings you here? | [15:14] |
| MrMeseekx: | Hello Diana. I heard about bingo's need for assistance to make a crawler for qntra outreach. | [15:15] |
| MrMeseekx: | So I am trying to contact him. Last thing I know is he went for groceries. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: so how/where did you hear of that ? | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: well done on registering your key with deedbot; do you know someone around here or how did you find your way in here now? | [15:18] |
| MrMeseekx: | I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic. | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: oh, huh; but why just..watch? are we…entertaining? lolz. | [15:19] |
| MrMeseekx: | I went into #trilema once and introduced myself, unfortunately lost my previous key. | [15:20] |
| MrMeseekx: | I'd say entertaining and interesting to observe. | [15:20] |
| MrMeseekx: | And also admirable. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018612 – jfw, it looks at your most reasonable self; the only bit that I think it's perhaps better set differently would be that "urge" – seriously, I have yet to see anyone do or even seriously consider something because of being urged by someone they didn't know; so maybe just set that as as a question and/or state that there is no reason for the added complexity? | [15:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 11:46:18 jfw: diana_coman: could you have a look at my draft musl missive at your convenience (after 7pm is fine)? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=gp4K | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: eh, dunno if we are that much in the showbusiness, lolz; what came of that previous introduction before losing your key, anyway? | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you talk to Hannah at all ? | [15:25] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-18#1604613 | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: hey, first of all – happy birthday! | [15:26] |
| MrMeseekx: | MP made some fun of me as an ancap and had some discussion over my plans for marriage and stuff. But I think I didn't end up that bad :D | [15:27] |
| MrMeseekx: | It is BingoBoingo's birthday? haha, what a coincidence. May I script something for him as a bday present :P | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | reads the ancient history of 2017, lmao; have a bit of patience. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: the best bday present is where he learns how to script, really; that doesn't mean necessarily you can't do anything, but you know, helping people is a tricky thing to get right. | [15:30] |
| MrMeseekx: | As far as I know he said he will study the code once he gets it. | [15:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HjM0 (no urgency) | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: I'm sure he will but that's separate anyway; so did you do that ancapia-nation-thing? lolz | [15:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I did not. I'll go ahead and ask for advice in her castle. | [15:34] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: I didn't, got too busy getting married. Still in my plans tho. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: and….why? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | I mean why still in the plans, lol? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | for the getting married I can imagine why a bit more easily. | [15:35] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: You mean why is there any need for it if Trilema and the WoT already exist? I ask myself the same. | [15:35] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: I think I still want to make an implementation of my own plan in my own way. | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: not even that far, way closer – I mean first of all why do you think you "make" a… nation; well, as a side hobby, too, by the sounds of it; nothing wrong with your own plan and your own way but exactly what is this your own way? | [15:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | MrMeseekx: My birthday was actually Sunday, but thank you. I apologize but I've made a habit of not responding to private messages from strangers. | [15:38] |
| MrMeseekx: | BingoBoingo: Understandable. | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: you know, re scripts and that, nobody can stop you making and publishing it anyway. | [15:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | MrMeseekx: Really it's been made clear to me that I've got to wrestle with it myself. Playing with tools that last few days has helped ease things a bit, but I'm still bumping into things and wrestling with how to shape the thing. | [15:40] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: My own way is basically creating the tools and environment that I believe would make the thing progress and thrive. Originally I thought it could start as social media, but then I thught a better idea is to make a to-do-list application… then turning them into contracts. | [15:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | MrMeseekx: I don't know hw many channel logs you've been following, but here's where I was as of last night http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-02-17#1001392 | [15:41] |
| ossabot: | (trilema-hanbot) 2020-02-17 BingoBoingo: hanbot_abroad diana_coman: The problem of identifying an article url on a blog url without importing python or something else heavy has me stumped, so I've been reconsidering the possibility of blasting out a crawl over serveral degrees. The flow filewise would be something like 'churn' to 'churndomains' to 'churn2' to 'churndomains2' and so on out to the ending on a list of all the urls scraped in the third or fourth iteration | [15:41] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: yeah the urging doesn't add much; better to do than talk about doing. Tweaked the wording and will launch momentarily. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: do you think it's tools that make anything progress and thrive? | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | is that the nation of shiny tools you are planning there? | [15:42] |
| MrMeseekx: | BingoBoingo: So if I understand correctly the problem is identifying the links to blog articles? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: understand that I'm not against help but help is what is actually needed, not what one finds convenient to give at one time or another, that's the rub; and if I get correctly that "voluntaryism" to mean the sort of "tourism where you volunteer aka get to feel virtuous while seeing others that have it worse than you", there is some serious mismatch. | [15:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you | [15:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | MrMeseekx: It's one potential problem. There is also the meta problem of whether that's actually the problem I should be attacking. | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: what does this admirable mean concretely from your point of view? that you want to be part of this admirable thing? or that you'd rather not be part of it? | [15:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 15:20:47 MrMeseekx: And also admirable. | [15:49] |
| MrMeseekx: | BingoBoingo: To resolve the meta problem I think the goal must be very clearly stated. I can say that from what I read in your bingology post crawler specs, you are kind of mixing *what* you want to get with *how* you are trying to get it. From step 3 I can get that the goal seems to be to find targets. But it specifies that targets will be identified by finding comment boxes. | [15:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | MrMeseekx: In my attempts to do mass commenting by hand, discovery of functioning comment boxes is indeed the biggest time sink. Bigger than actually spinning comments relevant to the articles attached to the boxes. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: we'll talk for sure some more but at a time when it's a bit more…peaceful. | [15:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you. | [15:52] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: It is admirable that a community based on gpg contracts wot was built. Do I want to be part of it? I think so. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: dunno, I thought you'd rather made your own thing than be part of anything, admirable or not, as it might be. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | for the logs, the voluntaryism, actual virtual nation and other projects | [15:58] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-01-17 Ingolfr_Arnarson: asciilifeform: I do not have a www created. Just owning www.ancapia.com, trying to design the best plan to make it a guide for people into voluntaryism or to turn it into an actual virtual nation conforming instructions. If possible. If I decide it is not, then I'll drop it and dedicate onto other projects I have. | [15:58] |
| MrMeseekx: | BingoBoingo: Do you have any urls of pages that have been difficult to process that way? | [16:00] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: Do both things have to be mutually exclusive? | [16:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | MrMeseekx: Right now I'm still working on finessign an step earlier than that. | [16:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman for my article series in progress, I took a step back to clarify the subject, scope and structure. here's what I have for that. I've started on converting the content I have in .tex to html , but not done yet. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: what's your idea of "being part of tmsr"? | [16:03] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: and yes, tools is what makes things progress. If you disagree I'd like to know why. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: because no pile of tools is ever worth anything by itself; it's always people that make things progress (or regress) and you can give/have the most amazing of tools and you'll still not get anywhere without the people capable and willing to get somewhere; is this news? | [16:05] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: I see being part of tmsr as being part of the conversation, joining the WoT, earning your rates fulfilling your contracts. | [16:05] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: Of course you need the people, but once you find the people, they will need the right tools. Actually, if the tools you have help you in finding the right people, even better. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: now that sounds like a History of TMSR from its pre-history to the present but I can't quite tell yet if you are aiming style-wise for Xenophon, Herodotus, Gibbon or who else! | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: so you followed the logs since 2017 and you got this idea that tmsr is like a corporation that you might fulfill some contracts for and therefore become "part of it"? | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | with added bonus that there are some amazing tools (that you'll make because since it's tools you are used to make then and therefore it follows that it's exactly *tools* that happen – how conveniently! – to be the actual core and crux and *everything* most needed and most important otherwise, right? | [16:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, that's essentially what my presentations were on. The history of Bitcoin and TMSR that's there, waiting to be read, that many people haven't found their way to. | [16:12] |
| dorion: | The idea is for the series to be a coherent entry point for the context. | [16:13] |
| dorion: | AMAZING COMPANY !!! | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes but it's one thing to set out to document and it's another thing to set out to "Discuss the deeds of the major actors in Bitcoin on technological, financial and political fronts." | [16:15] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: well, tmsr is the last place where humans can prove being worth of surviving after everything else goes to zero. But basically yeah, it is built on identity and getting things done. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you know, for one thing one might correctly ask you what and how exactly qualifies you for that sort of discussion; what are you going to answer exactly? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: that being built on identity doesn't strike you at all at odds with your proposed approach to be "part of it" by …fulfilling contracts on the side in between "making own nation", marriage and building those amazing tools? | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | (those that will bring people out of …hm, out of what, even?) | [16:18] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good question. a correct shift then to align the task with what my qualifications may be could be, "this is the important history as I understand it" | [16:21] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: hahaa, no because I am not meaning it in a way of being 'part of it' as becoming a refugee under welfare in a progressive nation, but to be literally a part. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: if you are aiming to provide that "coherent entry point", your goal is to collect & structure, not to discuss; does this distinction make sense to you? | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: it's not even possible to be part of it as a "refugee under welfare", what nonsense is that | [16:23] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: exactly. But you know how 'a nation' is defined nowadays, everybody can be part of it, you can do anything. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: trouble is that it's *also* not "being part of it" through the act of ..coding as such, that is also pure nonsense. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the choice/selection is of course entirely yours and personal and as such inevitably "the important history" as *you* understand it, of course. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | to the extent you want/have comments, you can of course also add those comments in there, it's your article and all that; but that doesn't quite amount to "discussing the deeds etc" | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: tmsr is anyway a republic so not exactly much to do with "how a nation is defined nowadays" | [16:27] |
| MrMeseekx: | so how is one part of it. | [16:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok. collect and structure was the meat of what I did in the presentation. the comments I made were summaries of various articles/events, e.g. the politics of bitcoin delineates, among other things, fiat businessness attempting to exploit bitcoin for fiat gains and Bitcoin businesses insulated from fiat. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: is that a question? apparently outside tmsr it's even question marks that are difficult to …find? at any rate, for one quick and clear answer, here: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-03-04#1900385 | [16:32] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-03-04 mircea_popescu: empire does not in any factual sense exist. man who works 70\% of the time for idiots is === the remaining 30\% of that man. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: all right; so do you /were you planning to do something in addition to that? (if yes, what?) or just more of that ie more details/events/articles? | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: understand that I'm not trying to hold you back from enjoyable work there; I'm only trying to hold you back from overshooting without even quite realising it. | [16:34] |
| dorion: | more of the details/events/articles since I restricted the content of the presentations to the 2hrs speaking I had. and to turn the deck as prompts for speaking to coherent articles. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: another way of putting this is that whether you are part of tmsr or not starts from *who you are* in everything you do and as such, when you are coming from a long history of purposefully staying *outside* of it, it usually involves/requires a lot of self-change aka learning at its most…radical, let's say. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: all right, so by the sounds of it you are aiming for something reasonable, except your statement of it got out of hand entirely ie you do need to either pay more attention to what words like "discuss the deeds of" really mean or otherwise generally to tone down the *description* of what you plan to do. | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | possibly both really, it's essentially just another facet of that tendency to jump abruptly | [16:42] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-02-17 dorion: spyked is rebuilding trb shortly, so if mod6 leads the way, followed by jfw and spyked that's at least 3 people scrutinizing the clearsigning scheme, tools and likely many of the same patches within the same timeframe. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: anyways, then do the outline for that 2009-2010 so you can get started sooner rather than later, all right? | [16:43] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: so to be (as in to exist) in tmsr one must be 100\% in tmsr, meaning the cost of opportunity of not being is 100\%. | [16:45] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, probably both. goes back to the point you made a while ago about the opportunity I have to get more depth. | [16:45] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, will move on 2009-2010 outline. | [16:45] |
| dorion: | ty diana_coman | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: more depth indeed; and yw, do come with whatever version of that outline you have, sooner rather than later, ok? | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: well, tell me something, are you part of your marriage 30\%? 50\%? what \%? | [16:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aok. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: as you might have noticed, that doesn't mean people don't live in the real world or something; it simply means that it's all about who you are and that's always 100\% indeed, in all places and at all times, how can it be less that that. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | (not to mention why on Earth would you *want* it to be less than that – it's like wanting to chop off a leg) | [16:53] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: I see your point. | [16:54] |
| MrMeseekx: | But how to know who somebody is? | [16:55] |
| MrMeseekx: | Or how do you do to find out who somebody is. | [16:55] |
| MrMeseekx: | But clearly with \% I meant to not waste time in doing things what won't help you achieve the goals you have. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018737 – traditionally that is most obviously found out in crisis situations really; did you read modernism and traditionalism? | [17:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 16:55:28 MrMeseekx: Or how do you do to find out who somebody is. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018738 – what if your goals are wrong to start with? | [17:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 16:57:01 MrMeseekx: But clearly with \% I meant to not waste time in doing things what won't help you achieve the goals you have. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: and no, that "clearly" is not at all clearly to me; I don't follow so maybe you explain to me what you mean there. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: you know, as an analogy – how do you find out if something shiny is gold or not? you …test it, right? | [17:06] |
| MrMeseekx: | You have resources, at any point, time, money, credibility, etc. You have to decide which \% of each use for what, depending of which goal you pick. If your goal is wrong, then that \% used in it got wasted. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: eh, do read that modernism and traditionalism because you are sidestepping there entirely any being as such. | [17:08] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: Yes, you test it. Using the best tools you have to test it at the moment.Yes, you can be wrong about the right tools too, as you can be wrong about a goal. But finding out when one is wrong is how you get your knowledge. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, that focus on tools. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | sure, finding out when you are wrong *and changing as a result* is exactly how one learns, certainly. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | do mind that troublesome second part. | [17:10] |
| MrMeseekx: | I agree. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: glad to hear the words; curious to see how the actions will match that too, heh. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: got it, thanks; is there something you wanted to discuss ? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you around? | [17:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I am | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: mind telling me (or perhaps writing it up if that's easier/clearer) in more detail what you figured out to be in your veins as you put it? | [17:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 13:55:24 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If it's not too late, I would like to pledge as a page. This weekend as I turned 34, I was struck by terror as I pondered what exactly is inside my veins. Dread left me paralyzed. For years I've been trying to conquer my shortcomings as an independent, and I have failed. | [17:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I found a lot of uncertainty. I found that in my disorganization, I let a skills gape, culture gap, and all sorts of other small gaps grow in my blindspots. | [17:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | I found that if I keep trying to maintain the pretense of independence, these gaps can only grow. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: why can they only grow? | [17:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I lack practice and experience productively directing my attention and activity | [17:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | I see the examination and confrontation of flaws in this castle, and I've stubbornly been thinking I'm special. I'm not, and this honestly seems like the sort of help I need. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: there is this striking disconnect in that when it comes to writing-for-qntra (and *strictly*, only that), you seem to be both productive and quite self-directed without any trouble; on other sides (like pizarro), it seemed more fitful/hit and miss (and with wide discrepancy too); on yet other parts it's like a huge block and/or going round about it. | [17:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | It strikes me that it is as though I have some sort of blinders like a horse. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: well, each and every person is themselves for sure; what is this "special" supposed to be more than that? | [17:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I suspect finding myself on a certain list year after year has been feeding a pernicious, self-protecting/defeating part of the ego. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | that list starts sounding more and more like the list-of-doom, huh. | [17:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It does. | [17:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | I would like to start confronting my flaws in an organized way, becoming productive and escaping my worn schtick as a one-trick pony | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: while you've been around and active (very visibly active, even!) for a long time really, I still can't quite put together a very clear picture of where you really are and why – in part possibly because of my relative lack of fit re journalism, in part because of the jumps/fits, not sure if there aren't any other parts too. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: why is qntra such a great fit for you and why is ~nothing else able to fit the same? | [18:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I came in early but shy, maybe I ought to do something on the biography. | [18:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | As to why Qntra seems so much easier than everything else… | [18:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | There's a lot of overlap in who/what I don't like in the world and who/what the republic doesn't like. Still as experience, recent and otherwise has shown… that's not a very strong tie on its own despite being an oft repeated trope. | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: you know, that's actually an interesting bit – I can almost say more about what you do NOT like than I can say about what you DO like; and the trouble with not-likes is that they are indeed not productive by nature; they can work as a sort of productive only once-removed (aka destroy/clear up/make space/maybe even motivate others to rebuild but not directly). | [18:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Despite being loud and appearing in the occasional photograph, I don't know that I've ever been challenged enough on the shyness. | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: how does this shyness apply here? | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | (and good god, what's with you and shyness people??) | [18:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | It seems to be part of the Anglotarded problem pushed by the environment. My ancestors were the rustic sort of Northern Europeans and Germans that were brough over to fill in the middle west when it wasn't quite such a new world. | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: eh, for starters do stop finding excuses for whatever it is; that has never ever helped anyone – and not for lack of being thoroughly tried, lol. | [18:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Alright | [18:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There is nothing additional I wish to discuss regarding that msg other than what to do with my additional ~20 hours per week that will become available once my contract is done. | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, it's not like I don't know what being shy means/how it works; but it's a rather…younger age thing, hm. | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how do you define opportunity cost? | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: back to the issue at hand – how/why do you say shyness applies there/in what way? as I don't quite get it. | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: you talk & have been talking in the chans, relatively all right, kept that blog more or less; didn't seem to visibly shy away from conversation etc. | [18:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I guess it comes in with not knowing how to talk about myself. | [18:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or at least with not knowing how to talk about myself in a civilized, adult manner. | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | that sounds more likely and for that matter less to do with shyness, more to do with lack of …practice with civilized, adult conversations, quite a different thing. | [18:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | That's the sort of connection I'm having trouble making for myself. | [18:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The difference between what one has gained for some decision and what would would have gained for the best possible decision. | [18:26] |
| diana_coman: | what I don't quite see (or not yet) is where and why it breaks in those places for you, hm. | [18:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how do you figure out what you'd have gained "for the best possible decision"? | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | and anyway, since you can figure out what that best possible decision is, why the hell wouldn't you …go for it? lolz | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: looking at your blog archive, it does strike as very btc-oriented with only occasional excursions in any you-territory | [18:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: That would be a fair assessment, maybe even understating it a bit. | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: when you say you want to get out of this one-trick pony thing – do you mean generally or do you mean it Qntra-specific? | [18:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well the definition can still hold up even if you only learn what was the best possible decision retroactively. But I think the problem with using the concept of opportunity cost in the way I did is that opportunity cost doesn't have meaning unless one's comparing like things. | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the opportunity cost is the loss of *not choosing the other available options*; nothing to do with hypothetical (since it can't be anything other than hypothetical) "best" | [18:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I mean I want to work on growing into a person who can do more than produce and edit stories for Qntra. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: putting it the simplest possible, if I ask you to choose between an apple and a pear, your opportunity cost if you choose the apple is that pear, not some "best fruit" | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: sounds sensible as in wanting to grow into a full, healthy person, sure. | [18:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Right, but if you offer me an apple, a pear, or two pears, and I pick the apple, then my opportunity cost is a pair of pears, right? I think I see your point though. | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the opportunity cost is everything you didn't get so technically speaking, it's 3 pears really. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | by choosing an apple, you gave up 3 pears; regardless of the fact that "oh, but I couldn't have gotten both the single pear and the pair of pears"; no matter. | [18:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok, the definition is more clear now. | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose the attraction to consider "the best choice" is that yes, it makes it neat; but my trouble with it is the implicit assumption that you actually can evaluate *upfront* the actual benefit. | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the above being said, I should mention that I ~always quarelled with economists-with-diploma (despite even helping at some point my father write his MBA thesis, huh). | [18:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: And with respect to Qntra and learning to script and navigate the command line, I could use help targeting which part of the problem tree I should be attacking and how to not let trying to eat the whole tree at once monopolize my attention.. | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | so it might well be that my definition for opportunity cost is not entirely fitting the classics or something. | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at any rate, the thing that started this – do you see that remote job as the thing you lose ie your opportunity cost? | [18:45] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: hm, re qntra at this stage the trouble seems to be deeper in that it's unclear to me to what extent you have made some plans – not as definitive "recipes" – but as "I know what I'm going to *do* and therefore it it turns out it's not working, what I'll change" | [18:47] |
| whaack: | heh I concentrated in economics at MIT. I *really* checked out of those classes and I do not think that was a mistake. (One history of finance class professor gave a timeline of bitcoin that included "satoshi discovered" (as hoaxtoshi)) | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I have to admit that the economics teacher entirely lost my attention the moment they re-arranged some formula and insisted that it was *a different formula*; but that aside, my quarrels there go deeper, lolz. | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: are you specifically looking atm for fine-grained direction on those scripts? | [18:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'm not sure if the problems I'm hitting are of fine or coarse grain. | [18:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: You do have a point on the deeper problem. In the early days of Qntra, cazalla and I would egg each other on and push each other to do all sorts of things to see that sticks, but we did it through the now unseemly channel of private irc messages. | [18:57] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I meant more re the direction aka micro-management if you prefer. | [18:57] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: what sorts of things did you try at that time, anyway? (I wasn't even quite aware of specific attempts, huh) | [18:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Having played with awk and pipes for a few days, I don't suspect I'll require particularly micro-scale management. | [18:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Back them we could reliably bait traffic from reddit, and other social media venues. | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: did that ever translate in any contributors or at least enquiries in that vein? | [19:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It's hard to say that far back. It might have brought in whaack and some other folks at the periphery. | [19:02] |
| MrMeseekx: | BingoBoingo: I have been playing with pipes and sed all day trying to make the crawler as specified. :D | [19:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, I don't see it as the opportunity cost. I very much want to be doing something else with my time. I see saltmines as a drag that I *must do* but it is possible that is not the case and I can stop for a while or forever once I'm done with this contract. | [19:03] |
| jfw: | "No one user matters more than another" – first response from musl list :D | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: but you see, you do what you do what you'd have done anyway essentially and otherwise expect/hope it willl somehow be also what is needed/useful; that's a terribly poor strategy and one with documented horrible outcomes. | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aahhaha, do cite it in #t too, for the record if for nothing else. | [19:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The intial push to build QNtra by attacking the GAW miners scam did draw leaks http://qntra.net/2015/04/garza-friends-additional-emails-detailed/ | [19:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | The attack on GAW built momentum that kept Qntra relevant through the hardfork wars. | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there is no must in that sense, no; what you *must* do is to make sure your effort and time works for *you* and esp for you in the long term; the exact form of that however can never be a must in that way, no. | [19:06] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: I enjoy doing it tho. | [19:08] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: so listen, do yourself a favour for starters, trawl those pms or whatever and write up a summary with what you 2 tried and what worked and what didn't, in what way, etc; write up somewhere in clear also what your current script does and what/where you're stuck + why; I honestly couldn't quite follow at that level of detail from the chans only. | [19:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you. I'll get to work. | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: that I'm sure you do; did you notice the topic in #trilema? maybe figure out what it means, as it's basically speaking straight to you there. | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018635 – btw, MrMeseekx why won't that friend come in, register a key and say hi? and all the others for that matter, as you can see, you survived unharmed. | [19:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-18 15:19:07 MrMeseekx: I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic. | [19:13] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: Yeah, time is gone. I just feel the need to solve the problem as it is stated there, it is there, i wanna solve it. | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, this musl adventure of yours turned out quite instructive since there you go, that "no user matters more than another" thrown back at reflex-speed (and just as obviously ignoring all your carefully crafted message) is quite what seasoned engineers means by now. | [19:18] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: oh, my friend did that and didn't survive. :p | [19:19] |
| MrMeseekx: | But insists all the time in all of us should come and registrer a key and try to prove if we are human. | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: so you are utterly vulnerable to a ddos-by-stated-problems attack? lolz; the unreflecting wanna-solve-it can turn out very sour. | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: ahaha, is that the code-solver-from-under-the-bed? | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | I was rather surprised at the recent canada-based popularity, lolz. | [19:21] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: he didn't *want* to survive, what can one do. | [19:21] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: yeah…. i bit the bait. | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: did he put it as … a problem to solve? | [19:22] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: Bingo call for a script? Well, it looked like a problem to solve. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | but you know, even better than learning from when *you* are wrong, is when you learn from when someone *else* was wrong so that you don't …repeat the same mistakes at least; just saying here. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | MrMeseekx: neah, the bait to come here (where horrible things happen!!!!1!!) | [19:24] |
| MrMeseekx: | diana_coman: LOL, I'll try to die not. | [19:25] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: iirc http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ hooked me into reading trilema | [21:14] |
| dorion: | as well. | [21:26] |
| jfw: | oh hey, fixpoint gets its first spam. for …amoxicillin online! | [21:38] |
#ossasepia Logs for 17 Feb 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/17/wh-review-of-week-18-feb-10th-feb-16th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review Of Week 18 (Feb 10th – Feb 16th) | [00:29] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/17/wh-plan-for-week-19-feb-17th-feb-23rd/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 19 (Feb 17th – Feb 23rd) | [00:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I had a nice time of concentration working on TheFleet. WTI: I had a sense of determination b.c. I needed to get the bot running tn so that I could see how it faired over a period of time. I need to find a way to summon that determination on command. B: I wasted 30 mins this morning speaking with a friend who lives in Paris. WTI: I justified chatting up friend b.c. | [00:48] |
| whaack: | "it's Sunday". But it doesn't matter what the day of week \% 7 is, I should ~never give up my valuable mornings. | [00:48] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/17/jfw-review-week-of-10-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of 10 Feb 2020 | [02:53] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/17/jfw-plan-week-of-17-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of 17 Feb 2020 | [03:12] |
| jfw: | My lateness seems to get worse there. | [03:17] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/17/rmd-plan-feb-17th-21st-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Feb 17th-21st, 2020 | [04:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what caused that ban exactly? I don't quite follow how/based on what do they ban; re talks – surely you can just find a better time for them, even accounting for the different time zones. | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, what are you doing to yourself there with the schedule? | [05:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not sure what caused the ban. However after connecting to 30 or so different networks, I was banned from joining networks I had not yet connected to. I have a suspicion that certain networks notify dronebl when someone joins there network, and if dronebl detects an IP has joined n+ networks it puts the ip on a ban list. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I suppose you can of course simply contact dronebl and ask them to remove you because you are not a bot/did nothing wrong; alternatively, let them come out with what exactly did you do "wrong" | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | or whatevers, one of the networks that banned you | [15:39] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: with the schedule I'm… letting things expand to fill not just all available time but some more besides, and setting myself up to start the week already behind. Or so it would appear :D | [15:41] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Feb-2020#1018370 – my trouble was I drastically underestimated how long the research would take. | [15:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-13 08:35:53 diana_coman: jfw, dorion you'll have to tell me one day just why couldn't you come with those slides yesterday at 7pm UTC for instance but anyways. | [15:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well one issue with asking them to unban my ip is the problem happened locally, and my ISP here gives me a new IP address every 3 days or so. However I will ask them to unban my IP on my VM when/if it gets banned as well. | [15:44] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-15-Feb-2020#1018468 – LaTex sources and pdfs available at http://dorion-mode.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/btc-history-{I,II}.{tex,pdf} | [15:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-15 16:28:10 jfw: dorion did his history presentation as a two-parter. | [15:45] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-16-Feb-2020#1018505 – I want to double down on the am/pm blocks I've set out in my plan and cash those in. the 19:00 UTC you're available for can serve for me as the standing meeting. | [15:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-16 15:40:30 diana_coman: dorion: do you want/prefer to set explicitly some standing meeting too? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, should be all right then; the point is that asking can help to get some idea/answer re why ban but anyway, it can wait. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that works; I had a look at your presentation slides, not bad; I gather you want first to get some outline(s) based on them+the full research, right? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: tbh reading your latest, I could see bits and pieces of additional research, but it didn't strike me like a lot of added content, more like added reading out of interest – is that a fair description ? | [15:52] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: yeah, not a lot of added content | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: thing is: overall it starts to add up to some quite successful self-tripping you got yourself there, heh; on one hand you are all "this is what needs to be done so will – glumly if need be – do it" + "there is not that much time nor need for leisure" and on the other hand – not all that surprisingly either – at any chance there is, you steal the leisure only marking it as "work", pretty much. | [15:58] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: sounds about right, lol. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | how was that – you are not easily fooled, right? except by…self, lol | [16:01] |
| dorion: | diana_coman correct. the .tex files are a notbad.jpg starting point and easy enough to sed them into wordpress suitable html. there's more research because a lot of potential content to left out to fit the 2x1hr time slots. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: atm there's quite the list of articles/pages in your queue so – which of them do you plan to focus on first? | [16:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman converting the presentation. I have the most momentum there and I also think it will segue nicely back into the benefits of tmsr os. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: there's no need to cheat yourself out of leisure OR work; and if you do one, it will of course backfire as it did there; so acknowledge and allow yourself proper leisure too, do enjoy work as work as well but don't allow one to pretend to be another. | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: it is also the *largest* part as such, esp if you aim for the full thing in one go; anyways, go ahead with it then, but do come with whatever/how much you have by tomorrow as it might be enough for one article anyway even if you haven't finished the full thing; that's the trouble with going based on momentum alone – sure it makes it easier/faster but it's not always fitting/considering all the context around all that well. | [16:08] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: noted. Though I now find myself curious about the distinction / definitions there, as I suppose I had it something like "work is that which is less-fun and/or more-necessary" | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what a lousy definition of work, lol | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | no wonder you drag your feet | [16:09] |
| jfw: | haha. what's yours diana_coman? | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: work is that which *needs to be done*; the fun or not fun is most of the times a matter of how you approach the doing, anyway. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | basically the distinction work/leisure is based on optionality not on fun. | [16:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah. I'm leaning towards a series. both to get myself in better writing rhythm and to make the reading more digestible for the dear readers. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: a series sounds more sensible for sure and most likely to fit better anyway; you made me laugh with the dear readers though – did you mean it as sarcastically as it sounds? | [16:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: aha, so while leisure itself isn't optional, the distinction is that what one applies it toward is | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that sounds very confused, let's try again: work is that which is NOT optional (in whatever way you define optional because otherwise at the extreme, *everything* is optional, breathing included); leisure is by definition that which is entirely optional; then fun is a layer on top and you get to apply it (or not) to whatever you want & whenever you want. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: otherwise put you can glum your way through leisure just as much as you can – as surprisingly as that might sound – fun your way through mountains of work, really | [16:16] |
| jfw: | huh | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | to have fun you need to …organise it ! or otherwise put: you need to know how to have fun! | [16:17] |
| jfw: | I mean, I definitely have fun with work sometimes, but then what remains is the …less-fun but still non-optional parts, so yeah, the "layer applied to anything" is the surpising part to me. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | diana_coman my readers are dear to me ! but also having fun over here :) | [16:18] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: but aren't you indeed also saying (and I, demonstrating) that leisure itself isn't optional? | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sure it is optional in that wide sense mentioned above – it's not *productive* in the long term but it is…optional in the sense that yeah, you can insist on not having it, what. | [16:20] |
| jfw: | right, ok, and I have no intention of thus insisting. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: your own fun is not something coming from outside of you, perhaps that's the less obvious part. | [16:22] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I don't know if I mentioned before, but in high school people voted me 'sincerely sarcastic'. a lot of that rubbed off once I grew up a bit, but sometimes still shows. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: meant to say that at least they weren't old dears, lol; and now I wonder at the exact difference between sincereley sarcastic and sarcastically sincere. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, I don't quite see why it would need rubbing off but possibly that's just me. | [16:30] |
| dorion: | diana_coman in the sense that many things when unbalanced can be a defense against growth. I mainly used it to call people on bullshit (the good I aim to retain), but sometimes I'd use it to bring people down cause I didn't want to level up (the bad I've done a lot to wash). | [16:33] |
| dorion: | e.g I reckon jfw and I would've been enemies when younger since our interests were quite unaligned. | [16:34] |
| jfw: | In leisure time this morning I dusted off my Aug 2019 notes from reading some of the GNAT user guide. I have a mind to continue that learning with some beginner exercises on the coding side and trying to reproduce ave1's bootstrap on the implementation side | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: eh, how you use a tool is different from the tool, sure; that's more purposeful use rather than any rubbing off of it though; and heh, enemies is not all that far away from friends, you know? | [16:37] |
| jfw: | enemies better than friends even for saying what you don't want to hear! | [16:38] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good point. and re enemies, some of best friends were opponents rather than teammates. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lolz, are you quite sure you are letting leisure be leisure rather than using it as "spare time to do more of the same"? | [16:38] |
| dorion: | jfw what do you think about reviewing bvt's latest work for Ada learning ? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, I quite wish that was the case; I did even write it already in two languages even but sadly it seems meanwhile there's very little of even proper enemies left to go around or something; one gets those sad excuses of "bully!!!" instead, sigh. | [16:39] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I had just that article in mind, yep. And uh, not quite sure re letting it be leisure, hm. | [16:42] |
| jfw: | dorion: that might come later, but I've already "passively absorbed" through eg. ffa and eucrypt's keccak and I think I need to get in the writing-things-myself practice, seeing & sorting through all the errors, getting the language constructs into long-term memory, to get much out of further reading. | [16:54] |
| dorion: | jfw aok. | [16:56] |
| jfw: | for example, bvt writes that string handling is a pain in Ada. I can't evaluate that statement, as I have not tried and felt the pain | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: seriously, more programming is not that much leisure when your non-leisure is also programming; no matter what you might like to think. | [16:57] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: makes sense when I take what I might like to think out of the picture, too. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that "what I might like to think" [of myself] is one of the deadliest tools your own best enemy – that one that has always slept in the same bed as you – has; so yeah, burn that part with fire. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: or in other words, don't pleasure yourself with thoughts! | [17:06] |
| bvt: | jfw: phf has fully done the job of vpatch parsing in ada, so not all string processing tasks in ada are hard; only if you go outside of the "string model" of the language this is the case; but specifically with ada, in some tasks you end up with 100x code for no clear benefit. | [18:13] |
#ossasepia Logs for 16 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: Reviewing my article I caught the error in "He found prespective deals". WTI: I will continue to keep a watchful eye for errors where I accidently use a similar sounding / similarly spelt words. But more importantly I will focus on selecting the right words in the first place. B: I didn't read my plan for today in the morning and had forgotten I had set aside a chunk of | [01:06] |
| whaack: | time to handle misc tasks. WTI: I will start each day by reading my plan for the day and create a schedule assigning the tasks to specific windows of time. | [01:06] |
| auctionbot: | B#1079 O=150mn LB=None E=2020-02-22 07:17:55.278379 (138h2) >>> Web crawler described in http://bingology.net/2020/outreach-automation-a-call-for-bids/ | [03:32] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 0 total bids — | [03:32] |
| auctionbot: | B#1079 O=150mn LB=None E=2020-02-22 07:17:55.278379 (133h2) >>> Web crawler described in http://bingology.net/2020/outreach-automation-a-call-for-bids/ | [08:32] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 0 total bids — | [08:32] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-16-Feb-2020#1018474 – reading/looking at the plan sounds like a basic requirement, lolz; the detailed schedule/assignment of tasks afterwards is entirely up to you – it sounds a bit overkill to me but if it works for you, then fine. | [09:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-16 01:06:20 whaack: time to handle misc tasks. WTI: I will start each day by reading my plan for the day and create a schedule assigning the tasks to specific windows of time. | [09:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The more important part is doing something active when reading the day's tasks in the morning. Today I reviewed my TODO list and further specified the tasks I had setout for myself. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible. | [13:23] |
| auctionbot: | B#1079 O=150mn LB=None E=2020-02-22 07:17:55.278379 (128h2) >>> Web crawler described in http://bingology.net/2020/outreach-automation-a-call-for-bids/ | [13:32] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 0 total bids — | [13:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: my sticky note reminded me to tell you that I've nothing specific to discuss at our standing meeting today if you've nothing. I'll be working on yardwork and botworks | [13:48] |
| lobbes: | bbl food | [13:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: are you happy with how this week turned out? looking at your previous review and hm, no plan, it doesn't seem all that great – the q is: do you have a clear idea what you'll change so that next week improves at least? | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | will be awk for ~1 hour | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | afk, lol | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: see q above. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the blog writing/review/plan ? | [15:32] |
| lobbes: | re: the plan for last week, I kinda wove it into the review, though maybe this upcoming review I will separate it. | [15:33] |
| lobbes: | My goal for this last week was to get the garage clean, get the hoster nailed down, and then either start setting up the new server or getting the auctionbot fix complete depending on if the server is provisioned. I managed to get garage clean, and hoster is secured. If I get the fixes to auctionbot complete today I will be on track | [15:33] |
| lobbes: | Only target I wasn't hitting was my waking up on time, so I'll plan with this in mind with today's review | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: ah, the additional stuff fallen by the wayside for you was from previous week even, huh. | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: anyways, if you pack them both in one place, then change the title accordingly or something, not like it's forbidden. | [15:36] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman, roger that | [15:36] |
| lobbes: | I'll make it a "review/plan" then, simple enough! | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: are you happy otherwise with the balance saltmines/you work there? | [15:36] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: no, definitely need to find a new saltmine. Getting unbalanced | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: so at the current rate/plan, when do you estimate you get around to focus on that or how do you see it? | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | you know, in general lines you should have at least some idea over the longer term too | [15:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: the way my current saltmine is, the first two weeks of each month I have ~4 deadlines to meet (reporting cycles). So I can focus more in the 2nd half. Long term though.. | [15:39] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I've been making progress on the blog article, but slowly, and not like it's going to be some kind of masterpiece for the time. And I'm laughing out loud at how predictable this situation is. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do you want/prefer to set explicitly some standing meeting too? | [15:40] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I need to give some thought to the long term indeed. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: making your own fun there! heh | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: trouble is that "can focus more in the 2nd half" of every month and then tired from the first half and so on, and next you know a year passed and you barely moved otherwise; it sounds rather life draining to me, tbh. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: no masterpieces required anyway, as you well know; but what's exactly stopping you from going faster anyway? | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the status with the irc project? in between all the details, the elephant got rather lost or so it seems? | [15:45] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, it is slowly burning me out. Ok, I will make sure I make stick to some clear deadline on escape from that situation too | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how do you plan to escape though? esp since you say you'd rather not go on this sort of things without a plan, no matter what. | [15:47] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: at least on this one I seem to be getting sidetracked on details; looking things up, looking closer at the photos, whether anything comes of it or not | [15:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: Well, atm I've been beginning to train some people on the specific portions of the work I do because I am moving on to some new project. | [15:52] |
| lobbes: | In general I hate leaving places high and dry with no one trained on what I do (even if the company sucks, I usually like the people I work with and don't like fucking them over), so in a few months I'll already have people trained and I'll be kinda in a place to take off | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that sounds more like enjoying the photos/details/topic so …not bad in itself at all, why not, but why does it have to be instead of writing rather than part of your leisure reading or similar? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | meanwhile I figure I can just focus on keeping an eye on the remote market (making notes this time) and then start applying for stuff once I get to that point of people being trained | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, that sort of training though sounds precisely the type you do over lunch/dinner/social meeting with those people though and at their asking you nicely; because it's one thing to not let *them* being fucked over and another thing entirely to not let high and dry the biz that is otherwise draining you. | [15:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I can see your point | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | I really don't see why and how that has to do with the work there; talk to them and let them know that you are available for *them*, sure; after all, you can't have a sane relationship with an institution. | [15:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I applied the fixes that address the problems in the first run and I tested a bot running/logging on my new machine. One task I had setout to do this week (have a way to determine which channels I'm currently connected to) did not get completed but it is possible I can get it done tonight. I think that there is a gordion knot solution to the problem, I can run TheFleet inside of the | [15:58] |
| whaack: | repl in a tmux on my vm, and then just reconnect via ssh/attaching to see the status of my program. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: for that matter, if you tell them privately that you *have to go* and they have a problem with that because oh noez their own ass, then I really don't see the point in all this "gotta not let their ass down" | [15:58] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the effort to write about them was what motivated the study, so they're intertwined in a way. I take it I should better separate them somehow | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right. | [15:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: makes sense. Okay I'll drop this 'have to wait until they are trained' idea. I'll focus instead on just applying to places asap | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if it works better mixed then simply plan it over leisure+writing time, that's all. | [16:00] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: ah ok | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes; essentially you can't quite afford that "nice guy" carelesness about yourself that is, btw, pretty much the way you get trained to fuck yourself over. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | if you sink, you won't be in any position to help anyone else at any time, anyway; for the obvious. | [16:02] |
| lobbes: | that's true; if I lose agency then I can't do any good for anyone | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | (and for the possibly not-obvious to the naive: none of those thus helped will "have time" to get you out of that sinking either). | [16:02] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/17/ejb-review-of-feb-10-feb-16-plan-for-feb-17-feb-23/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review of Feb 10-Feb 16 ; plan for Feb 17-Feb 23 | [22:01] |
| whaack: | I did just as described in my last message. I have a test bot connected to 15 small networks in a tmux. I tried to connect to a larger number of networks locally, but I got put on a global banlist here https://dronebl.org/ . | [23:49] |
#ossasepia Logs for 15 Feb 2020
| jfw: | Well, no reason I couldn't have had an article out today, besides this accursed inner force that apparently doesn't want me to get (certain) things done and holds me back; as it held me back from getting presentations prepared expeditiously. I ask it – why? So far it doesn't answer. I recall also the advice to ignore it. | [01:55] |
| jfw: | Then on reading that back the thought flits by: "quit complaining about inner forces and just do things already!" | [02:01] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Feb-2020#1018415 – good point, I could be a better Socrates, the point is to be helpful rather than to "win" | [02:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-14 03:41:46 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Feb-2020#1018408 – tsk; jfw, add simply the question(s) they never asked themselves properly before spewing the common nonsense; in this case: why do you want to increase mass adoption? (and then from there on, until they run into whatever walls they choose, sure). | [02:09] |
| jfw: | g'night all; and the last of those holiday pics WILL be published! | [02:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: Read and tested out your vcodectrl scripts. WTI: Take more advantage of tools written by folks around here (jfw your clocking tool comes to mind) B: Woke up late (10am) WTI: Follow my own advice I gave to lobbes. I made the mistake last night of doing late night trilema reading. | [02:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and sign vpatches, too! | [04:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the trouble with all this "holding back" is that it has some significant costs that *also* accumulate, even if it might not seem so in the moment; for one obvious thing, the way the work on the presentations went was quite bureaucratic in manner – you'll end up taking whatever time is available but not really making the most of it; and fwiw the wallet work seems to follow the same pattern. | [04:42] |
| diana_coman: | if there's no "why" then it means it's "for no good reason" and so -> ignore it already; note also that if you ~always get to work only if/when under pressure, then the logical result is that you'll end up ~always under pressure. | [04:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's not a healthy thing (although it can even feel good in an unsustainable way, sure). | [04:47] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the bureaucratic manner of time usage hadn't occurred to me but seems apt, huh. | [15:29] |
| jfw: | the ending up always under pressure makes complete sense | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: not to mention that management is by definition stuck with doing what works, so dunno, maybe you'd rather make sure there's something *other than pressure* that… works, you know? | [15:32] |
| jfw: | being curious about or interested in something does work, though seemingly not on demand | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, what's wrong with/why don't you purposefully maximize benefits of any work you do? | [15:34] |
| jfw: | Nothing wrong with. Maybe I'm not accustomed to thinking about how to do that | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-15-Feb-2020#1018430 – how do you mean this? | [15:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-15 15:33:58 jfw: being curious about or interested in something does work, though seemingly not on demand | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-15-Feb-2020#1018432 – the way it looks from here is that you ~never quite consider that at all really. | [15:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-15 15:35:45 jfw: Nothing wrong with. Maybe I'm not accustomed to thinking about how to do that | [15:37] |
| jfw: | I mean that I'm not too aware of when or why that kind of motivation comes or goes, or how to make it more useful for me | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | that sounds like you need to develop a healthier curiosity, heh. | [15:39] |
| jfw: | exactly | [15:40] |
| jfw: | well hm, healthier as in generally larger? or… better somehow? | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: of a better quality & substance, yes. | [15:42] |
| jfw: | How might I go about that then? | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | the way you describe it there, it really sounds more like "whims" although I wouldn't have said those fit you very well otherwise/generally. | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | curses not being able to find a ref that was exactly on this. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the core of it would be more… systematic curiosity, heh. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | as with everything else related to yourself, it also starts with actually looking at what and how it currently does (not) work for you, exactly; so take an example of something where you started curious/interested and then it ..vanished – where/why/when | [15:48] |
| jfw: | I was & still am having trouble thinking of an example there; perhaps I put it badly as "comes and goes". Certainly things can get more difficult as you go deeper & require re-dedication – the wallet's an example there – or get buried by more pressing needs | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | hm, do you mean that difficult stuff kills your curiosity or what? | [15:57] |
| jfw: | examples for the second being my scheme interpreter and gports work, which I haven't touched in quite some time though they're a ways from where I'd like them to be | [15:57] |
| jfw: | no, doesn't kill the curiosity | [15:57] |
| jfw: | more of a, "huh, this mountain is taller than I realized, better decide if I still want it" | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahaha | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | ~all mountains are taller than they seem at first. | [15:58] |
| jfw: | that can be the fun of it too. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: indeed; as long as you choose your mountains well to start with, that's the main trick. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | and otherwise it's again about how you set yourself up really. | [16:01] |
| jfw: | like preparing, finding the necessary resources | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | is thinking how to structure all that goes in there so that there's some clear entry point and path; this part is not one I needed to structure so far so hm, might take a while. | [16:04] |
| jfw: | a cache miss, huh? well no rush on my part | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lol, worse (or better really from my pov!) than a cache miss; but yeah, it will have to wait. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | one thing that sticks out though (and esp with how you approached this conference thing) is that you seem to be surprisingly unconcerned with making the most of resources around in general, not only time really. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | I can't say if that's again one of those poisoned results of relative abundance/comfort generally or what exactly but it's certainly not helping you any. | [16:13] |
| jfw: | hm. interesting, I'll try to keep in mind | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, did you give a different presentation on the 2nd day or how was that split? | [16:20] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/15/rmd-review-feb-8-14th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Feb 8-14th, 2020 | [16:22] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: yes, the second day I did "There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Block". Some basics of bitcoin, how proof of work provides security, how it's funded. Only got it ready at the last minute of course… | [16:25] |
| jfw: | Also got in a demonstration of dice password gen, to add some practical value, which seemed to go well. | [16:27] |
| jfw: | dorion did his history presentation as a two-parter. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [16:28] |
| feedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/15/the-i-eye-and-aye/ << Ossa Sepia — The I, Eye and Aye | [18:20] |
| auctionbot: | B#1079 O=150mn LB=None E=2020-02-22 07:17:55.278379 (143h2) >>> Web crawler described in http://bingology.net/2020/outreach-automation-a-call-for-bids/ | [22:32] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 0 total bids — | [22:32] |
#ossasepia Logs for 14 Feb 2020
| jfw: | whaack: interactive things over tcp do tend to bring out the flaws in one's network connection, packet loss especially. Do you see the same lag typing around in a plain shell on the server? | [00:21] |
| jfw: | that local buffer feature sounds like a local emacs downloading, editing locally then re-uploading so not really comparable. | [00:23] |
| jfw: | I have this problem too on occasion and have just suffered with it. | [00:23] |
| jfw: | shrysr reported success with 'mosh', which does things like buffering characters locally and bypassing some tcp 'features'. It didn't look too hygienic though at first glance, mandatory-unicode-everywhere for instance | [00:27] |
| jfw: | hm, and doing its own crypto protocol – not that that's a bad thing per se, but much easier to get wrong than right | [00:29] |
| jfw: | Otherwise: my presentation went fine and seemed well received. Got some lively debate going in the audience toward the end. Got one lead on my plate so far, and at least a possible referral source on Robinson's | [00:35] |
| jfw: | Not fully recovered on health but hanging in, just exhausted mainly. | [00:38] |
| whaack: | jfw: nice to hear you pulled through. curious to hear what the debate was about | [00:43] |
| whaack: | jfw: and yeah it's the same lag i see normally while in a shell. | [00:48] |
| jfw: | whaack: main outbreak I'm recalling was one of the more talkative fellows saying ~ "well this is great information and all, certainly serious people should learn this stuff, but how will there ever be mass adoption if these are the lengths you have to go to?" Bunch of others then chimed in with "who needs mass adoption, the masses don't have savings in fiat anyway" | [00:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: G: When I got tired I swapped to an easier task instead of stopping work altgoether. WTI: Keep a list of easy tasks to attack when I have short time / am tired. B: I struggled all day with navigation around my comp, and did not take proper steps to improve my station setup. WTI: take steps that will permanently improve my setup i.e. remap hotkeys instead of learning what | [00:58] |
| whaack: | they are set to by default only to change them later. | [00:58] |
| whaack: | jfw: aha nice. I've seen the "no mass adoption if its so complicated" line of reasoning a million times, but cool to hear there were " a bunch of others " on the other side | [01:02] |
| whaack: | jfw: in fact I think the most common topic at any typical "blockchain/crypto conference" is "how do we increase mass adoption (for the stupid plebs of which we could not possibly be a part of)" | [01:04] |
| jfw: | ikr? I scarcely had anything to add. | [01:09] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Feb-2020#1018399 – oh hey, glad to hear it and well done! | [03:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-14 00:35:35 jfw: Otherwise: my presentation went fine and seemed well received. Got some lively debate going in the audience toward the end. Got one lead on my plate so far, and at least a possible referral source on Robinson's | [03:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Feb-2020#1018403 – ahaha, nice. | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-14 00:55:48 jfw: whaack: main outbreak I'm recalling was one of the more talkative fellows saying ~ "well this is great information and all, certainly serious people should learn this stuff, but how will there ever be mass adoption if these are the lengths you have to go to?" Bunch of others then chimed in with "who needs mass adoption, the masses don't have savings in fiat anyway" | [03:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Feb-2020#1018404 – it sounds like a good time to reassess those shortcut keys or whatevers but if they are indeed the best, then ofc just set them on the new computer too, why wouldn't you | [03:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-14 00:58:18 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: G: When I got tired I swapped to an easier task instead of stopping work altgoether. WTI: Keep a list of easy tasks to attack when I have short time / am tired. B: I struggled all day with navigation around my comp, and did not take proper steps to improve my station setup. WTI: take steps that will permanently improve my setup i.e. remap hotkeys instead of learning what | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Feb-2020#1018408 – tsk; jfw, add simply the question(s) they never asked themselves properly before spewing the common nonsense; in this case: why do you want to increase mass adoption? (and then from there on, until they run into whatever walls they choose, sure). | [03:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-14 01:09:27 jfw: ikr? I scarcely had anything to add. | [03:41] |
#ossasepia Logs for 13 Feb 2020
| whaack: | jfw: sorry to hear that, hope you get well soon. | [01:34] |
| whaack: | jfw: I like the color choice for the slides, the black background fits the "Monster under Bitcoin Bed" title. The last slide made me reflect. | [01:36] |
| whaack: | idk the context / title of your speech so i'm not sure if it's obvious but if your audience doesn't know that you are also promoting JWRD you may want to mention that you are going to talk about your company at the beginning. This may be just me but personally I tune out when I feel that a presenter has baited me with some interesting opening topic only to start selling their product a few slides in. | [01:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Good: It only took 2 seconds to get the AC fix in motion. Way to improve: I irrationally connect the work required for a task to how long it will take before that task is done. It may be a week before the AC technician comes in and cleans the filters or w/e but the time it took me to get that started was ~0. Going forward I'll try to actively work against this irrationality and see if there's more easy frui | [02:40] |
| whaack: | t to pick. Bad: Low motivation during saltines work. WTI: Just muscle through it + By next Sunday create a list of options for next potential job / ways to get cash. | [02:40] |
| whaack: | jfw: by "title of your speech" i meant how your presentation is displayed on any brochure/itinerary the meetup has. iirc there was a discussion about how the pdf that was shared earlier by dorion did not mention JWRD | [02:42] |
| dorion: | whaack good point on the potential "bait and switch". on the one hand, he could probably mitigate in the introduction by explaining the outline upfront. e.g. "this is who I am and what I do. I'm going to start talking about some risks few people consider and finish in explaining the service we've developed to help clients mitigate for these risks." | [03:31] |
| dorion: | on the other hand, if someone that didn't know about any of those risks gets their panties in a bunch that we tell them the solutions we're prepared to provide… perhaps that's a good indication they're not a good fit. | [03:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion as much as I like Taleb's books and writings in general, his message there is supporting what you say but not your main message so that first slide (after title one) is just not fitting at all. | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | also, I get that your slides follow the flow of what you are trying to say but understand that presentations are not exactly like articles in that the audience can't just go back and forth as they want/need so you need to do the crucial bit of that for them so they get most of it | [04:04] |
| diana_coman: | one approach (linked to that reading of stuff 3 times to fully get it) is a. tell them what you'll say b. say it c. tell them what you said | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | the a. part can be in this case essentially a juicier bait to make them really pay attention (and tbh I think your quote from MP's http://trilema.com/a-conceit-or-the-importance-of-blogging ) is possibly better in the beginning – even more so if they do *not* know it/MP because it's new so it has some "interestingness" just in that | [04:07] |
| diana_coman: | and circling back to it at the end is not a problem i.e. now after all this, you have also some idea as to *why* that is so, eh? | [04:08] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion also, please, do write your JWRD credentials on the title slide, why in the world don't you? | [04:08] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, you are the cto there for all intents and purposes, own it already; dorion, you are the ceo there idem for all intents and purposes and what's the trouble with it? | [04:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hope you get better soon | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion I hope you'll get to re-use (and refine, sure) those presentations some more at whatever events in there, esp seeing how in the end they took almost a full week to prepare, huh. | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Feb-2020#1018321 – maybe simply write down/think of the actual task that *you* need to do as opposed to someone else; tbh you do phrase it rather weirdly in that it's never quite fully clear that you'll do ~0 re the AC as such – what you mean to do there is simply to get someone else to do the work, lolz. | [04:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-13 02:40:10 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: Good: It only took 2 seconds to get the AC fix in motion. Way to improve: I irrationally connect the work required for a task to how long it will take before that task is done. It may be a week before the AC technician comes in and cleans the filters or w/e but the time it took me to get that started was ~0. Going forward I'll try to actively work against this irrationality and see if there's more easy frui | [04:15] |
| diana_coman: | so your task there is "schedule AC apptm" or whatever, not "fix AC"; just use the words properly and help yourself already. | [04:17] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thanks for the feedback, been working it in. | [08:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to hear it made it in time, what can I say. | [08:09] |
| jfw: | Uploaded monsters-2.{pdf,odp} | [08:11] |
| jfw: | re my main point, I see it as: there are dangers in what you don't know about your environment, but solutions exist | [08:13] |
| jfw: | (and let us help you find them!) | [08:14] |
| jfw: | Certainly I expect to reuse this or large parts of it. | [08:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, the main point is good as stated; the tricky part as usual is to find the best way to fully get it across esp to a …innocent audience. | [08:16] |
| diana_coman: | basically to make them properly afraid of their own ignorance (as it's healthy really) and then able to see how you can indeed help. | [08:17] |
| jfw: | mhm | [08:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, re taleb my point was really about the slide with his pic + book, not necessarily to take out the whole point; the thing is, version 1 looked like you were advertising taleb's book tbh, lolz. | [08:18] |
| jfw: | heh. I moved him a bit later, to make the point of "okay so there are risks but do they matter? hasn't happened to me" | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: re risks if you have at hand concrete examples work best, ofc. | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | is still going through version 2 | [08:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: "We provide qualified individuals a relatively sane," – awww, do not say that | [08:22] |
| diana_coman: | I know what you mean and why you say it and all that but your clients will hear only the "relatively" and tune out because wtf solution is that | [08:22] |
| jfw: | hm, it's also one of the few points I didn't write on this pass. | [08:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what you provide is a working solution to exclude a LOT of the existing risks that are not in fact *mandatory* and otherwise to mitigate and keep under direct control those risks that still have to be taken. | [08:24] |
| jfw: | so we do. | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | the HOW that solution works is through a tailored (by JWRD computing) computing environment that *you can and will* customise to meet clients' specific needs and for which you provide full support including but not even limited to in-depth training etc | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | literally, you are there to help them not be the turkey, what | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | why are you selling yourself so short there with that slide 14, ouf. | [08:28] |
| diana_coman: | look at it, you focus on founded in 2016 and then began publishing in late 2019 without telling people what really *matters*… | [08:29] |
| jfw: | mmf, I see. | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not the founding that matters, nor the beginning of publishing; what matters is: been working *since 2016* to develop, revise, review, tune and *apply* the working solution! | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | ie you already have *years* of practical experience that you are packaging in your offer there! | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | they are not buying just a course made like all the rest out of reading "the literature" and 10 slides, ffs | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | and re 2019, the point there is that now that you have a fully working solution that *has been already deployed* (because you did, that's your pilot set!), you *also* have gained *access* to and support from the WoT that matters | [08:32] |
| diana_coman: | and *that* is important to your audience because a. they are at that specific event precisely on the "oh, not public" – so hit them with the fact that you 2 are the *direct link* to an even more selective "not public" in that way, ok? | [08:33] |
| diana_coman: | and b. through that link you can gain for them too more support /different opportunities when/if needed, that's the point. | [08:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: does the above make full sense to you? | [08:35] |
| diana_coman: | and for that matter to dorion when he wakes up I guess. | [08:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the key reframing I'm seeing is putting it from the standpoint of what matters to them. | [08:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion you'll have to tell me one day just why couldn't you come with those slides yesterday at 7pm UTC for instance but anyways. | [08:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: exactly! since you are talking *to* them, please, always and forever *to people*, not *at people" so yes, what matters to them. | [08:36] |
| diana_coman: | (that is not to say necessarily what they imagine you should say or other such nonsense but it *does* matter what they *should* care about because it is important to what they do/where they are/etc) | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | does mean* (instead of does matter above) | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: any questions /anything else atm? | [08:39] |
| diana_coman: | the rest seems ok at this pass at least. | [08:39] |
| jfw: | nope, and feeling greatful you gave it that second pass. | [08:40] |
| jfw: | *grateful | [08:40] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome. | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | goes to see about lunch | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot_abroad: do you know perhaps of any good refs in English for literary theory and criticism? While I ended up recommending simply Aristotle's Poetics, perhaps there is something in the English space too that I'm just not aware of? | [10:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-10 16:25:45 diana_coman: whaack: by the sounds of it you should probably read up first on some literary theory and criticism but now ofc figuring out good English refs for it is a different matter. | [10:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-10 16:29:25 diana_coman: whaack: otoh I guess you really can't go wrong reading Aristotle's Poetics | [10:27] |
| hanbot_abroad: | diana_coman, whaack, afaik aside from trilema (particularly annotations, the cs lewis and hayek thingcome to mind for instance), english sorely lacks anything of much use in this vein beyond maybe joseph conrad, and moreover i'm loathe to rec | [11:44] |
| hanbot_abroad: | ommend reading heidegger or any actual theorists in translation. i think the best avenues are either to read and discuss (with non-us-style-academitards) classical lit, and/or learn german and/or french. or in other words, i heartily agree, haha. | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot_abroad: thanks! I recall I read at some point something quite sensible by Northrop Frye if memory serves but I never properly reviewed him so I can't say if I was just lucky or what. | [11:48] |
| hanbot_abroad: | hmm, dunno 'im | [12:20] |
| hanbot_abroad: | but yeah, a major reason why english sucks. | [12:21] |
| diana_coman: | the other major reason being possibly the lack of swearing depths, as spyked's latest article helpfully reminds us! | [12:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re proper wording for the tasks. | [14:30] |
| hanbot_abroad: | diana_coman literature, swearing, expression…i just noticed the other day for instance that the sheer lack of expressivity in this language was tempting me to interpret statements like "he was good" as having heavy implicit negation of the subject's being good anymore –this sort of forced reading between the lines that often enough makes text bizarre and communication difficult. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | hm, makes sense actually; and good technical manuals! /me recalls the horror of French tech texts, lol. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | dorion or jfw: I am new to tmux. I ssh'd into my server and started yrc in a tmux session and detached the session. When I want to open irc I ssh back in and reattach to the tmux session. This works fine but sometimes there is delay between the time where i press the key and the time i see the character in my yrc client | [23:25] |
| whaack: | it's something I can live with but I was wondering if I'm doing something wrong. Emacs iirc can keep a local buffer when you open a remote file, although I don't use that feature | [23:27] |
#ossasepia Logs for 12 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Good: I found an excuse to teach myself a bit of awk while doing saltmines work. I'll keep trying to use more command line tools to edit files etc. why saltminin'. Bad: I have not snagged anything off my miscellaneous TODO list nor updated my weekly plan to reflect changes. I will update my plan tomorrow morning, keep it updated, and also dedicate 15 mins to getting misc task done. (The one that comes to mi | [01:04] |
| whaack: | nd is calling the AC technician) | [01:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [04:03] |
| jfw: | As luck would have it I've come down with a fever the day before presentation. Going to take it easy tonight, and dorion offered to fill in tomorrow if necessary. And I got such nice slides prepared too! | [18:12] |
| dorion: | jfw, give'm a link. | [18:37] |
| jfw: | http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/monsters.pdf (or .odp if preferred). | [18:43] |
#ossasepia Logs for 11 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: the bad: I spent 25 mins in the morning chatting+helping a friend back home with some trivial coding problem he had for his work. not engaging in irc until 1pm is pointless if I engage in a worse form of communication. the good: I had a moment of about 45 minutes of focused writing. method to improve: turn off heathen comms in the morning – the specific culprit was "iMessenger" | [01:35] |
| whaack: | also: my schedule is shifted because today I had to go pickup the car, I didn't think I was going to have to do that until Friday. | [01:38] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Feb-2020#1018278 – ahaha, sounds great to me! | [03:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-10 23:07:28 jfw: I'm contemplating a title for that sales-y presentation of "Monsters Under the Bitcoin Bed", with the theme that the important risks to worry about lie in the darkness of the things you don't know, but become manageable as you learn and face them. This quote and | [03:57] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, the anchors should do well. | [03:57] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Feb-2020#1018280 – turn it off indeed, wtf iMessenger anyway. | [03:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-11 01:35:17 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: the bad: I spent 25 mins in the morning chatting+helping a friend back home with some trivial coding problem he had for his work. not engaging in irc until 1pm is pointless if I engage in a worse form of communication. the good: I had a moment of about 45 minutes of focused writing. method to improve: turn off heathen comms in the morning – the specific culprit was "iMessenger" | [03:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: schedule shift can happen like that, not a problem. | [03:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: come to think of it, you could equally go for something like Monsters of the Bitcoin Depths or something, kind of depends on the tone you are aiming for and what you know of your audience. | [09:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My allocated writing time is up and I don't have something I can publish. And I was supposed to publish yesterday. I'm not sure how to go about fixing this. Even if I extended writing by 1.5 hours I don't know that I'd finish with something decent. I believe my problem comes from poor outlining. | [12:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in what way is the outlining poor/letting you down? | [12:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It doesn't create a path from point A to point B. It is just a list of notes. I've discussed this problem with you before and I think I repeated the error because I rushed to finish the article yesterday. | [12:59] |
| whaack: | Also fwiw 1hr into writing the article I thought to myself "Man, I regret choosing this subject. I don't have much interesting to say here" | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: tsk@regrets; no regrets! lolz; if you don't have much interesting to say there, then and therefore you should find out more about the topic – aka go and get something interesting to say there but indeed, it won't come out of nowhere; you can always try to look at it from a different perspective – one that you know more about and therefore you have more to say about but you can't just dump it because difficult basically, wtf. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re no path from A to B – that means you needed to start today with another iteration on the outline essentially – you need to have *some idea* as to *what path* you mean between A and B, yes; so myeah, no article today and/or tomorrow, but 1. see if you need to change perspective/approach/what and/or what research to do in order to have something to say 2. fix/iterate on the outline until it is a useful one. | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, re yesterday's eod – you should *also* note what you need to reinforce/do more of so that the good part repeats / becomes usual rather than extraordinary. | [13:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Alright. I will either do more research on my topic or change it slightly so that it focuses on points where I have something to say. And I will redo the outline tomorrow and publish on Thursday. | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds good. | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The good part from yesterday, the block of focus, I owe in part to using the new computer. I will see to it to remove any/all dependencies on my tolietbox. | [13:26] |
| whaack: | for my new machine: I plan to disconnect it from DNS, but it makes sense to me to keep a way to do manual domain name resolution | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean by manual DNS? you can always simply ping on toilet box to get the IP and then add that to the hosts file if you want it on your computer; or what do you mean? | [13:31] |
| whaack: | that's what i meant, except w/ the pinging on my main comp | [13:31] |
| whaack: | something like | [13:32] |
| diana_coman: | uhm; possibly dig I guess. | [13:34] |
| whaack: | ok. I want to reduce the time I spend swiveling my chair to the tolietbox. | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so see man dig | [13:35] |
| whaack: | k | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | tbh I fail to see how exactly would you end up with a lot of dns lookup needs if you keep indeed that computer clean but anyways. | [13:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | curious to see whan the motor carriage will be revealed on ztkfg | [13:38] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: ETA Saturday | [13:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | cool | [13:42] |
| feedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/11/no-atmos-in-the-atmosphere-euloras-defaults/ << Ossa Sepia — No Atmos in the Atmosphere (Eulora's Defaults) | [14:44] |
#ossasepia Logs for 10 Feb 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/jfw-review-week-of-3-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of 3 Feb 2020 | [02:23] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/jfw-plan-week-of-10-feb-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of 10 Feb 2020 | [02:42] |
| jfw: | in after the late buzzer again. Even worked on them earlier in the day too, but I dunno, couldn't muster the urgency. Review seems on the superficial side too. | [02:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why is it *urgency* that you are looking for? | [04:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: more importantly is whether it was time well spent, you know? how about you switch a bit those EOD to note each day something that went well and why, something that didn't go well and why, a (be it small) change you'll make going forward to increase the "went well" parts and decrease the others? | [04:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Feb-2020#1018139 – I could see it as BingoBoingo says, "both", but tbh I still think it's just misplaced dedication&investment really. | [04:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 22:07:59 billymg: at first i thought extremely dense, now suspect bored troll. sad either way i suppose | [04:13] |
| diana_coman: | come to think of it, that would even fit both there too, heh. | [04:16] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, seriously, why does ChanServ not like you, ave1 ? | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Feb-2020#1018133 – myeah, do that; lobbes , you asked for this standing meeting, don't you want/need it anymore or what? | [09:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 21:54:37 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-09#1017968 << oy, I was out today during that time and neglected to let you know ahead of time. I'ma slap a big ass sticky note on my wall so I don't do this in the future | [09:42] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 19:17:37 diana_coman: lobbes: you around? | [09:42] |
| feedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/10/ossasepia-m/ << Ossa Sepia — #ossasepia +m | [13:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think the time was well spent. Refreshing advice given is necessary after 17 weeks and I uncovered some tasks that are simple yet important (mirroring the WOT) that I had forgotten about / missed. | [15:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The new EOD plan looks good. | [15:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have a pile of dead tree to pick from for my next book. I can type up the list of all the titles or post a picture of the shelf. Currently I am considering Voltaire's Candide as translated by Donald Frame. | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! but yes, Voltaire's Candide sounds good; just you know, for starters, be a bit more cautious esp when reading classics ie you don't know what you don't know and they are… how to put this, way older than you and still read for some reasons, you know? | [15:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: noted, I am maybe blind to some of the meaning but I am not blind to the state of being blind. I can hear the whoosh as that meaning flies over my head. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what sort of thing did you do in school re literature anyway? | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | I have no idea what/how does US school do that (though I DO hope it…does have such lessons, huh) | [15:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Hm well I can take the time to try to really think back and create a list of the classes I took and the books I read. But I remember that we mostly read contemporary American literature: To Kill A Mocking Bird, Catcher in The Rye, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, and Of Mice and Men are the first titles that come to mind. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: beyond concrete meaning, the part to which you gave at least the impression of blindness is essentially the wider context (and as a consequence what and why and when is appropriate since yeah, that's what context does); hence my question above, trying to figure out what you are used to as approach and what you know of it anyway. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: my question was more re *how* did you read them aka what does "literature class" mean in the US? | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | (or whatever it's called, I don't even know the name used). | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion how's it going with those presentations? | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: basically: what did a usual assignment ask for? what discussion/what else was done in class? what do you consider/think you got from it all, if anything? | [16:02] |
| whaack: | For middle school (up until your 13) they called the relevant class "English" class. Then in High School there is a series of classes that meet the "English class requirement" each having individual names: "AP English Literature" and "Creative Non-Fiction" are two course titles I remember | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | creative… non-fiction? I'm almost afraid to ask what that is, lol; what is it supposed to be? | [16:05] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I haven't started on presentation work yet today. Was about to get into responding to your points of this morning, then blog; but perhaps the blog should go later, knowing how I tend to slip. | [16:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Generally there's a book that the class reads together over the period of 2 weeks – 2 months. You're assigned to read to a certain page. Along the way writing assignments of all sorts are given. Also along the way the class sits in a circle and discusses some part of the book | [16:06] |
| whaack: | Creative non-fiction was a class where we read auto biographies and memoirs and wrote our own | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I'd say presentation gets higher priority for now so focus on that, even if you skip one day of blog; what you don't want is to end up doing the presentation on Wed for Thu; but do make sure you use the time effectively, the higher priority doesn't mean "can therefore drag feet longer on it", ahem. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | quite right. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, the fiction is that memoirs and biographies are non-fiction! I see; lolz. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | aha | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | but come to think of it, writing "own biography and memoir" in highschool, good god. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so the class consisted in …reading in group? what? | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | meant: or what? | [16:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: reading out loud in a circle was really common | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | bwahahaa | [16:10] |
| whaack: | each kid gets a paragraph and rotating | [16:11] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Feb-2020#1018148 – it's urgency that gets me moving on reviews at the last chance, but yeah, mustering something more internal would be much nicer. | [16:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-10 04:06:38 diana_coman: jfw: why is it *urgency* that you are looking for? | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | yes, uhm, that was primary to make sure everyone CAN read (7yo to 11yo) and at most one more year afterwards (for reading with proper intonation etc). | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | and uhm, that reading to a certain paragraph – does that mean they did NOT expect each kid to read the whole book?? | [16:12] |
| whaack: | well everyone is supposed to read along of course, it's not like they only had 1 book and passed it in a circle | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no,no, I meant at home, lolz. | [16:13] |
| whaack: | although i'm sure it'll come to that some day lol | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | neah, they'll get directly some shortened version; after all iirc they already did some "cleaned up" Twain and similar horrors. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, I never really thought my highschool literature classes were any good (mainly because I was in heavy-CS class so kind of the weird one interested in literature too + fewer hours) but by comparison, I start to appreciate it more, lol. | [16:15] |
| whaack: | There were some classes I thought were good, but of course was in no position to judge. Not all of them did the reading in circle shenanagins at least. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what did you get out of those good classes? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: by the sounds of it you should probably read up first on some literary theory and criticism but now ofc figuring out good English refs for it is a different matter. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot_abroad: maybe you know ^ ? | [16:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | saw the circle thing persist into University. As class sizes shrank it turned into something called "The liberal arts arc" | [16:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Because… moving the chairs to close the circle was more work | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well, we read some books I enjoyed – some I recall : Wuthering Heights, The Count of Monte Cristo, Animal Farm, and Of Mice and Men. Then I improved my writing by writing/revising essays. What I enjoyed most though was the class discussions – specifically I enjoyed when the teacher put some topic to debate in the class and the students had to take a side and use evidence from the book. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | aha "the liberal arts arc" | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: otoh I guess you really can't go wrong reading Aristotle's Poetics | [16:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: should I put that on the top of my list? | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah, but that still sounds so pedestrian essentially that you end up precisely with the sort of thing you wrote in that article of yours. | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, put it at the top and see how it goes. | [16:30] |
| whaack: | k. | [16:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha yeah I see that now, the topic written on the blackboard that sparked the article was "Is Odysseus really a good leader?" | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | …. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | poor blackboard. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | but seriously, that's "social indoctrination class, 1.0.1",what literature. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | was odysseus a good commie too? | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | lolz. | [16:36] |
| whaack: | ahaha | [16:36] |
| whaack: | I had one teacher, Mr. Mott, who would assign a kid to lead the class discussion and then promptly fall asleep | [16:37] |
| whaack: | he would wake from his slumber to make certain statements like, "what's the point? none of you kids get laid anyways, this play [A Streetcar Named Desire] has no meaning to you" | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, he had a point! | [16:38] |
| whaack: | yeah come to think of it he may have been the best teacher | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: lmao re circle; schools in RO still had those fixed 2-people benches so no chance of any circles, arcs and other such things, lol. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: but for that matter, can you help re http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Feb-2020#1018197 perhaps? | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-10 16:25:45 diana_coman: whaack: by the sounds of it you should probably read up first on some literary theory and criticism but now ofc figuring out good English refs for it is a different matter. | [16:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The worst resource allocation I saw in US Universities was when I was repeatedly assigned to TA logic discussion sections in… An equipped Chemistry lab. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | well, it can make for …explosive illustrations of logical errors! | [16:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | I did enjoy that every wall in the room was a chalkboard. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | I'd say make best use of provided environment! | [16:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | thinking of texts that might be helpful for whaack | [16:42] |
| jfw: | I've been enjoying this thread; hadn't heard of Aristotle's Poetics. Most I'm remembering of literary theory from high school was archetypes and heroic cycle | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | we had physics classes in the biology lab and biology classes in the chemistry lab and it didn't make any difference since neither actually used any lab material even when they matched (it happened at times!) the topic with the lab, so… | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I was even thinking you might add to/enjoy it but …you have a presentation to make!! | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:43] |
| jfw: | heh, yes, books will still be on shelf tomorrow. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha; still, glad to hear you enjoyed the thread anyway. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: on musl outreach, one question coming to mind about the initial approach is how to treat that "we"? Most likely they have no idea who I am, and no idea what they might've seen of tmsr | [16:48] |
| whaack: | the STATE REQUIRED labs for biology were extra lulzy. How do you explain evolution to kids? You make put beads in one bowl and have 2 other empty bowls and you play a game where one kid has a chopstick and the other kid has a spoon and you compete to see who can put more beads into their bowl in 30 seconds and then you write a lab report comparing the spoons/chop sticks to birds' beaks. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so give concrete examples and links and that will clarify the "we" implicitly | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | starting with your gales (and the we there is you and dorion ), then e.g. ave1's work | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you set the links in place and let them ask/figure out/remain stupid, what | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | you don't need to give them a full lecture on ~everything just to state your point. | [16:50] |
| jfw: | trb "rotor" comes to mind too re musl usage. Ok, makes sense | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | so give rotor link too, sure; you don't even need to give the names for any of it, just say gales (link), rotor (link) and they can follow and see what we etc. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: awww, poor ericbot now is surely out of sync, sorry. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I suppose you can even avoid the "we" if you are iffy about it as such, and just state tmsr uses musl intensively (eg x,y,z with links) etc. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | https://www.nysedregents.org/livingenvironment/818/lenv82018-ltexamw.pdf (The exam that follows said labs. Can't make it passed q 1 before the 'subtle' propaganda begins "Which human activity most directly causes a significant increase in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere?" ) | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, I don't mind it if you call it "pleasure reading" but it makes for a lot esp in your context there, lolz. | [16:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack diana_coman: Probably as close as any Enlish language text coming out of the US is going to come, https://www.uky.edu/~eushe2/Pajares/jcertain.html | [16:56] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: a lot of what? | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, this CO2 madness is now in full swing indeed; I have to look *very* carefully even at books for small kids | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: a lot of potential fun/laughter* | [16:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: you're indoctrinating them!!11 | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: OUR judgments concerning the worth of things, big or little, depend on the feelings the things arouse in us – say what?? | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I am? there might be some peanut gallery I'm not following there, lol. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I guess I see your point. It's painful to read no matter where I try to excavate even a single sentence. | [16:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It's rather an indictment of the space isn't it. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | poor, poor words. | [16:59] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Feb-2020#1018169 – I've made progress, but not yet done. I've found myself doing more journaling than I had expected, which has slowed down the process of getting the presentation and other tasks done, but I'm okay with it because it seems like I'm processing unexamined habits that were previously holding me back. | [17:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-10 16:01:57 diana_coman: jfw, dorion how's it going with those presentations? | [17:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | Aristotle's Poetics seems a better place to start than any work born in English | [17:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i'm mocking the 'anyone who deviates from the party's curriculum' is religious nut or w/e | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that sounds like it will pay off by itself anyway; and you still have enough time for the pressing presentation so it works. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: usually that line goes with "it's the enemy", they don't have that much sophistication. | [17:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, that's my thought. Now that I think about it, it makes sense too as a logical next step in the progression from last week. I will admit that I was a bit down last night that I'd missed the deadline I'd set and allowed that to snowball into posting the update for the day as a comment. sometime this morning through the journaling I realized that was treating the plan as a | [17:06] |
| dorion: | striaghtjacket. | [17:06] |
| dorion: | straitjacket* | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: aha; and seriously, not the case to be down at all there, don't be silly. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: and do keep up posting those updates for the day as comments, just every day; if anything, probably even more so when feeling down – you might find out in response that there isn't anything to feel down about. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: in other sads, I can offer as small match to your found masterpiece there, this bit here: "25th Anniversary Edition of Terry Eagleton's classic introduction to literary theory First published in 1983, and revised in 1996 to include material on developments in feminist and cultural theory" | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, I'll stick to Aristotle, thank you. | [17:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, thanks, will do. | [17:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: William James is as close as North America got to having a philosopher. I thought for a very long time the problem was John Dewey aggressively abusing the pragmatism to Pantsuit that was the problem, but… the problems are deeper. The well was well poisoned no later than Emerson. | [17:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | James' attacks on the "Saint Louis Hegelians" survive in my esteem mostly through my not having the time or inclination to revisit my memories (and my old notebooks not making the luggage cut). Other than that… His prose has "New England Disease" infecting it throughout, and his self-experiments in neuroscience seem to have had lingering effects outside his essays explicitly discussing them. | [17:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right, they don't have the sophistication but even if they did it would be disadvantageous for them to phrase it like that – "it's the enemy" may spark interest while "eh, religious rubish" [ossasepia.com/2019/11/24/some-questions-for-early-mornings/?b=Why+do+they&e=!#select][is a useful phrase to discredit something for young minds] | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: ahaha, that sounds like you'd enjoy writing an article on it really; (and the resulting article sounds like a fun read at the very least). | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thing with the young minds – when young but on their own so teens rather than 7yo – is that they'll naturally swing against the latest thing so not necessarily "won't spark interest"; depends which young you talk about really, it's a matter of place & time, not of "young". | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | rather: against the *last* thing; towards the "latest" thing. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow. | [17:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It's one I'll start passively jotting notes for, because it will require a slow bake to get the relevant point. The conclusion as to how I latched on to the fellow's writing is rather concise: "Of the American philosophers fashionable in Southern Illinois University's Department of Philosophy, he was treated most marginally for being the least overtly pantsuit. I found this unfortunate. Still more unfortunate was the | [17:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | narrowness of the discussion space omitting or glossing over better thinkers, not in English." | [17:48] |
| jfw: | I'm contemplating a title for that sales-y presentation of "Monsters Under the Bitcoin Bed", with the theme that the important risks to worry about lie in the darkness of the things you don't know, but become manageable as you learn and face them. This quote and | [23:07] |
| jfw: | Taleb's turkey should make for good anchors | [23:07] |
#ossasepia Logs for 09 Feb 2020
| diana_coman: | whaack: congrats on car acquisition then. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you around? | [15:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thank you | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | lmao | [17:10] |
| NOTd41r: | hi guys, quick question | [17:10] |
| NOTd41r: | is the real bitcoin client still compatible with btc chain? | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | does that question make sense to anyone? | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: everyone around here runs trb. | [17:11] |
| whaack: | NOTd41r: yes, bitcoin is compatible with bitcoin | [17:11] |
| NOTd41r: | as far as i understand, segwit transactions are considered "all can spend" by older implementations | [17:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | NOTd41r: They are indeed "anyone can spend" transactions. | [17:12] |
| NOTd41r: | therefore… mmm… what happens if someone using trb tries to spend a segwit utxo? | [17:12] |
| NOTd41r: | fork? | [17:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | No, trb doesn't have the ability bolted on to spend to "Pay to script hash" addresses (the ones that start with 3). | [17:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | But it will take incoming transactions from P2SH addresses fine since it's coming from "pay to anyone" | [17:14] |
| NOTd41r: | no P2SH at all? | [17:14] |
| NOTd41r: | how do you do atomic swaps then? | [17:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | … I don't understand the confusion of ideas | [17:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | Around these parts… we deal with people dealing with people. | [17:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | If folks want to swap things they can. No need to mechanize it. | [17:18] |
| NOTd41r: | is there any other chain besides bitcoin, where trb implementation is being currently used? | [17:21] |
| whaack: | I played a video game a while back called a Tale In The Desert. Instead of having a trade window like some MMORPGs the only way to 'trade' was to drop your item on the ground and have the other person drop their item on the ground, and then each would pick up the other's item. The person who dropped their item first could be robbed. I liked this feature, it's more interesting. There is no such thing as an 'atomic swap' confirmed tr | [17:22] |
| whaack: | ade window irl. | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: nobody really cares about who uses what on pump-and-dump stuff. | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | admits the NOTd41r is at least entertaining. | [17:23] |
| NOTd41r: | is that retro-maximalism? | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: what does "retro-maximalism"? | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: what does "retro-maximalism" mean? | [17:24] |
| NOTd41r: | like "only btc, please, but not the current rules people are using" | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: that doesn't make any sense to me. | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | and it's not a definition at all; see the definition of what a definition is | [17:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 16:38:21 diana_coman: so a definition is a declarative sentence that states the proximate genus and specific difference for a given concept. | [17:25] |
| NOTd41r: | pretty good stuff going on alts right now, the non-p&d 1\% is well worth it | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: so go there then, good luck. | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: note that you again just deflected and failed to learn anything and so you are going the very same way of d41r for all the pretense you are NOTd41r ; it won't be long before you arrive in the same place too. | [17:28] |
| NOTd41r: | ehmm… I'm a minimalist, and I see trb like something minimalistic and therefore good, no matter what chain is put on to run | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: seeing everything else as something like what you are is a common but rather debilitating condition really. | [17:29] |
| NOTd41r: | since bch doesn't have full support for all the segwit bs, I suppose that some trb instances must be running | [17:32] |
| NOTd41r: | on it | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r, kindly tell me something: are you under some impression that this chan here really can't be made off limits to someone? | [17:36] |
| dorion: | NOTd41r altfever seems to be at odds with your claimed minimalism since, afaict, they pretty much all layer on complexity that trb isn't infected with. | [17:36] |
| NOTd41r: | dorion: exactly, that's what I hate about them | [17:39] |
| NOTd41r: | diana_coman: made off limits? could you be more clear, please? | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: let me ask a simpler question then: do you imagine that people in here have some sort of obligation to listen to what you say just because you are polite? | [17:40] |
| NOTd41r: | diana_coman: thanks for the compliment | [17:42] |
| NOTd41r: | I don't believe in obligations, if that answers your question | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: that avoids my question. | [17:43] |
| NOTd41r: | I don't believe in anyone having obligations in this channel, if that answers your question | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | who knew it's so hard to even answer a question as stated, huh. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: why/what makes you think then that you can just walk in and keep talking about your suppositions and the like while ignoring/avoiding what doesn't fit with your expectations/requires some change from you? | [17:45] |
| NOTd41r: | maybe you spend too much time with people that say what you wanna hear | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, no, quite on the contrary. | [17:45] |
| NOTd41r: | then what's so bothering about a rando asking questions? | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: it's a waste of time and space at best; and no, this space here and people's time (because the log is read by people) are not for free for you to come and "ask questions" autistically. | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | !o uptime | [17:48] |
| ossabot: | diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 1m | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | ugh | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: is that whole shinohai drama a secret or what? | [17:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: my irc client got a message 'tomaw [Global Notice] We'll shortly be rerouting a number of servers that will result in most users seeing large numbers of people reconnecting.' | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: they can't be accused of not saying it, I see. | [18:00] |
| whaack: | so that disconnect was likely a result above the above and did not have to do with anything on your end. | [18:00] |
| whaack: | of the above* | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | well, in fairness, we are still on #freenode so I guess we deserve all the shit, clearly. | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, I know; I was just suddenly aware that I might need to resync the log and that's really not a pleasure. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah alright. Let me know if you want me to add 'patch ossabot so it logs join/parts' to my TODO list. The logs don't provide the context for your 'lmao' from earlier when NOTd41r joined the channel. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: neah, it's fine to have only the text in the log really. | [18:16] |
| whaack: | k | [18:16] |
| NOTd41r: | mmm, did i understand correctly? no p2sh support? | [18:58] |
| diana_coman: | it boggles the mind how can one think he's fine to ignore others but they will not ignore him. | [19:02] |
| NOTd41r: | diana_coman: I'm not ignoring anyone. | [19:12] |
| NOTd41r: | also, I think it's ok to use the /ignore command, it's there for a reason, feel free to use it on me if you desire | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: do you realise you are coming to my chan and then spew at me nonsense? | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | and you wonder why you get kicked and banned? | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | go and wonder. | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | stating "I'm not ignoring" is not the same as not ignoring; and you are ignoring, have been ignoring and continue to ignore; so get out. | [19:13] |
| NOTd41r: | what am i ignoring? | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | everything that doesn't fit your expectation; you have plenty of questions you haven't answered – that means you ignored them | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | will you answer them? before you ask anything else. | [19:15] |
| NOTd41r: | I don't feel like there are questions left behind. | [19:15] |
| diana_coman: | your feelings are not facts. | [19:15] |
| NOTd41r: | unanswered. | [19:15] |
| NOTd41r: | would you mind asking directly first? what is so important that you need to know from me? | [19:15] |
| NOTd41r: | s/first/please/ | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: for example: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Feb-2020#1018010 | [19:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 17:45:14 diana_coman: NOTd41r: why/what makes you think then that you can just walk in and keep talking about your suppositions and the like while ignoring/avoiding what doesn't fit with your expectations/requires some change from you? | [19:16] |
| NOTd41r: | I told you: I don't think that's the case. | [19:17] |
| NOTd41r: | I disagree with that view. Happy now? | [19:17] |
| NOTd41r: | Can we just move on now? | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: no; this is a learning place and you refuse to learn because you consider your feelings and views matter like that. | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | they don't . | [19:17] |
| NOTd41r: | I don't consider my feelings and views matter. | [19:18] |
| NOTd41r: | I confess: I know nothing. | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | this is a resource and you are wasting it; it is my resource too so I'll kick you out and make sure you stay out until you actually want to learn. | [19:18] |
| NOTd41r: | And I'm happy that this is "a place to learn", that's awesome. | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: then go back and do the homework you got. | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | go through the logs and pick all the questions and answer them; start a blog, it makes a great article. | [19:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Feb-2020#1017995 – this is still true. | [19:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 17:28:26 diana_coman: NOTd41r: note that you again just deflected and failed to learn anything and so you are going the very same way of d41r for all the pretense you are NOTd41r ; it won't be long before you arrive in the same place too. | [19:19] |
| NOTd41r: | that's your opinion. | [19:19] |
| NOTd41r: | I do not "deflect", I only state what I think. | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: unlike yours, mine has way more behind it and for that reason it matters. | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: you have your homework; until and unless you do it, you don't have any right to ask questions and state nonsense in my chan; go and do it in your chan or someone else's, there's no problem (since you think it's just a space like that anyway) | [19:21] |
| NOTd41r: | I tried to join trb channel, but somewhere i read that first i should go to #ossasepia | [19:22] |
| NOTd41r: | is this correct? | [19:22] |
| NOTd41r: | I'm asking questions about trb | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: did you read and understood any of the links people offered you so far? | [19:22] |
| NOTd41r: | yes | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | all of them? | [19:23] |
| NOTd41r: | i guess so | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, so what sort of understood is that …guess? | [19:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It isn't a secret. I've just not spent time on trying to debug his internal state. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: for some reason I thought he actually said something explicitly; meanwhile I saw his comment so I guess that's his statement – he can't pass on such an opportunity to consider himself terribly important with no work at all. | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: you are here without a key now so that shows ~0 understanding of at least the 2 links on what the wot is and how it works. | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | to just pick an example. | [19:25] |
| NOTd41r: | diana_coman: i know what the wot is and how it works | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | you consider that simply coming here is what it means to "go to #ossasepia first" so that shows directly that you either haven't read younghands.club at all or haven't understood anything. | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: you don't; because you can't "be here" without being part of it. | [19:26] |
| NOTd41r: | mmmmmkay, maybe I'm doing something wrong? How to join the trb club then? | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, are they a club now? | [19:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | NOTd41r: You can't without an identity | [19:27] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: look here, I get it: you want to do only what you want, namely to use trb code as if it were in a vacuum. | [19:27] |
| diana_coman: | it won't work and it doesn't wash and for a ton of reasons that I keep explicitly pointing to you but you still don't want to see because they are not what you want. | [19:27] |
| NOTd41r: | BingoBoingo: you mean being on the wot? I'm in it already. | [19:27] |
| NOTd41r: | diana_coman: you don't know where innovation might lead trb's code. supressing innovation doesn't always goes well | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: do you see how you just deflected? | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | instead of addressing what I said, you jumped sideways on something else that is more convenient. | [19:28] |
| NOTd41r: | diana_coman: maybe i'm just stupid but… no, i didn't see. | [19:28] |
| NOTd41r: | that's like… your opinion, man, you know | [19:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | NOTd41r: Registering a key alone isn't even the minimum. You've gotta establish an identity. Who is your daddy? What does he do? What do you DO? | [19:29] |
| NOTd41r: | My daddy is Pimperoo Pinkolo | [19:29] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: nope, it's not just "an opinion" and "here, I have mine and is just as good as yours" because reasons etc. | [19:29] |
| NOTd41r: | he's a carpenter | [19:29] |
| NOTd41r: | does it matter? this is ridiculous | [19:30] |
| NOTd41r: | "what your daddy does" | [19:30] |
| NOTd41r: | that's silly | [19:30] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: note that as d41r you are in the wot indeed and you have negratings; since you know what the wot is and how those work, you surely know how and why and where that matters. | [19:30] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: as this nick you have no key registered that I can see, so no, you are not in the wot. | [19:30] |
| NOTd41r: | oh, of course, I forgot to tell you, I registered with another nick the other day, but some furious cat lady throw me out of the channel. | [19:31] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: to address your latest nonsense http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Feb-2020#1018084 – nobody is supressing innovation; you however are in no position to "innovate" anything and you clearly don't even understand why and how. | [19:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 19:28:24 NOTd41r: diana_coman: you don't know where innovation might lead trb's code. supressing innovation doesn't always goes well | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: so you do not understand anything still. | [19:32] |
| NOTd41r: | ad hominem much? | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | NOTd41r: nope. | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | but clearly wasting my time with you so I'll ban and ignore you, that's fine. | [19:33] |
| NOTd41r: | yeah, you're invalidating my statement, because I stated it. | [19:33] |
| NOTd41r: | ok, great stuff, that's how you treat people who collaborate with code | [19:34] |
| diana_coman: | "collaborate with code" good god. | [19:35] |
| diana_coman: | and he pretends in the same breath he understands what the wot is and how it works; how can people get this autistic, I don't get it. | [19:35] |
| diana_coman: | for the logs: indeed, if you come bent on "collaborating with code", save your time and mine and go somewhere else. | [19:36] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: any chance of having that voice model for #ossasepia any time soon? | [19:37] |
| deflect0r: | set the example, so everybody learns, that the great dictator won't accept contributions from non-boot lickers | [19:37] |
| diana_coman: | deflect0r: do you get out now or should I kick you again? | [19:37] |
| diana_coman: | I will not accept contributions from randos who don't want to be people, no. | [19:38] |
| diana_coman: | nothing to do with any boots. | [19:38] |
| deflect0r: | now trying to dehumanize me? | [19:38] |
| deflect0r: | why all this hate? | [19:38] |
| diana_coman: | akick #ossasepia ADD *!*@2a03:1b20:9:f011::a02d | [19:38] |
| diana_coman: | I wonder why all this love. | [19:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | Seriously. Can't believe he hasn't read that dehumanizing is one of the more powerful tools in the chest. | [19:40] |
| diana_coman: | I guess that voice model is just a must | [19:40] |
| i-will-answer-al: | iron first lady | [19:40] |
| i-will-answer-al: | fist | [19:40] |
| diana_coman: | i-will-answer-al: so come when you have the link to that article where you indeed answer the questions. | [19:41] |
| i-will-answer-al: | i don't even know what the hell are you talking about, | [19:42] |
| i-will-answer-al: | at this point you're just bullying me | [19:42] |
| diana_coman: | mk; until the voice model is in, ignore will have to do. | [19:50] |
| stop-bullying: | 👠| [19:50] |
| diana_coman: | we are back to manual voice until we have the civilised automated wot-based voice; if anyone finds themselves without voice in here, pm me please. | [20:12] |
| diana_coman: | and for any newcomers and log readers: please register first a key with deedbot (see the guide: http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup) as otherwise it's unlikely you'll get voiced in here. | [20:13] |
| jfw: | well that was fun! | [20:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: These were a lot more common at one point | [21:22] |
| whaack: | huh what problem does ChanServ have with ave1 | [21:39] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-02-09#1017968 << oy, I was out today during that time and neglected to let you know ahead of time. I'ma slap a big ass sticky note on my wall so I don't do this in the future | [21:54] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-02-09 19:17:37 diana_coman: lobbes: you around? | [21:54] |
| lobbes: | in any case, I'm gonna get my review done now | [21:54] |
| lobbes: | (looks like I missed some drama in #o as well..) | [21:55] |
| lobbes: | well, "drama". I guess IRC-rando rain shower is more apt | [21:55] |
| billymg: | d41r walks onto someone else's private property and starts spewing nonsense under the guise of "asking questions" and "collaborating with code" to "innovate". is politely, and with great patience, told how to *actually* join and participate. continues to spew belligerent nonsense, is kickbanned… "stop bullying me!!11" | [22:07] |
| billymg: | at first i thought extremely dense, now suspect bored troll. sad either way i suppose | [22:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | billymg: Probably both | [22:34] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/ejb-review-week-7-feb-3-feb-9/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 7 (Feb 3 – Feb 9) | [22:44] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/wh-review-for-week-17-feb-3rd-feb-9th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review For Week 17 (Feb 3rd – Feb 9th) | [23:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Spent my day working on my review/plan. As described in my review I went through all my previous plans/reviews and took notes. | [23:52] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/10/222/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 18 (Feb 10th – Feb 16th) | [23:54] |
#ossasepia Logs for 08 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I worked on TheFleet and more of setting up my dev environment today. For TheFleet I calculated how many IPs i'm going to need for each of the 138 networks I have channels for http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=K3SX. Most networks only require a couple of IPs. Freenode is the main beast, to log all its channels concurrently I need 109 bots spread across 36 IPs. | [01:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I should have published an article for my blog today as well, but my schedule has been shifted back. Tomorrow I will be busy for a chunk of the day looking at cars. | [01:49] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017717 – d41r, the automation of everything that you seem bent on is going to get you to grief only; the WoT is well and truly in use and at the moment you are outside of it and trying with all you have to stay outside. | [04:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 16:38:48 d41r: what is the purpose of the WOT if you can't use it? | [04:49] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017722 – myeah, he answers selectively, protects what is keeping him back and expects that it will wash indefinetely. | [04:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 16:47:08 jfw: d41r, again with not answering the question. What do you suppose automation would achieve there? Why would I care about the set of all alleged identities that've been announced somewhere, except perhaps for research projects? | [04:52] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017738 – billymg, maybe ask Hannah since she surely has experience with this in CR? iirc the best bet was anyway some redundancy at the very least. | [04:53] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 16:55:38 billymg: but i think best option might be one of those cellular hotspots and a data plan, provided i can find one that has LTE coverage where i am (which i know exists because some people visiting the property were getting it on their phones) | [04:53] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017740 – d41r what "we"? | [04:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 16:56:16 d41r: in the case of mitm or any other attack on wot.deedbot.org we're basically… fucked | [04:54] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017769 – gah; d41r listen here, first you confuse the WoT's representation with the WoT; then you keep wasting space pushing your idiotic "let's hide under the bed because being a real person is so very hard" and on top of that you think you are now part of some "we", keybase is some solution and some pile of new code and assorted tech will solve "humanity's" problems because … | [04:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 17:10:03 d41r: BingoBoingo: great, that you need to manually verify and manually replicate on your own personal WoT | [04:58] |
| diana_coman: | … clearly you already solved *all* your own problems now so you are seeing uninvited to other people's problems too | [04:59] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017786 – you will not "work" on anything around here until and unless you get out of your autistic bubble and actually start having some relationships with people; that's what matters before any "work on this" bullshit coding, is that clear enough for you? | [05:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 19:16:53 d41r: I think I'll work on solving that. | [05:01] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017799 – works. | [05:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 21:34:18 dorion: diana_coman my review was a bit on the heavy side and I have some potential clients to meet up with for an hour or two. my plan is to be back in relative early tonight, sleep at a decent hour and make the plan tomorrow am. I hope that doesn't throw off your plan for tomorrow. | [05:03] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017802 – I haven't fully followed the vpatches here so correct me if I don't get something but my understanding is that it's a choice between branching the tree vs program flag, is this correct? | [05:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 22:31:54 trinque: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016795 << ok, I won't sign a patch that removes functionality I use. no biggie either way, but I question this "PROGRAM MAY NOT HAVE FLAGS" undercurrent implicit. | [05:04] |
| diana_coman: | menalone and their saving the world from under the bed, I really just have enough of it. | [05:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017809 – you know, esp given the rather sad experience with the previous pilot test, I'd say focus first on making sure your setup works fine from 1 IP and as much as that covers; getting more IPs is the *easy* part, so sort out properly the rest first. | [05:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 01:41:54 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I worked on TheFleet and more of setting up my dev environment today. For TheFleet I calculated how many IPs i'm going to need for each of the 138 networks I have channels for http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=K3SX. Most networks only require a couple of IPs. Freenode is the main beast, to log all its channels concurrently I need 109 bots spread across 36 IPs. | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017810 – you'll have a cars article to write then. | [05:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 01:49:13 whaack: diana_coman: I should have published an article for my blog today as well, but my schedule has been shifted back. Tomorrow I will be busy for a chunk of the day looking at cars. | [05:39] |
| adlai: | happens to have an 'otr' plugin lying around; wonders whether to wrap the wotpaste-gpg amulet with otr, for that triple-condom security | [09:05] |
| d41r2: | who pissed in your cheerios this morning, diana_coman ? why so much aggressivity? | [09:58] |
| d41r2: | what I did of so terrible to be banned? | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | d41r2: read and re-read the logs, it's all in there; and if you want to hang around, learn from it rather than persisting with the stupid. | [10:10] |
| d41r2: | you're not answering the question, diana_coman | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | d41r2: you *are* persisting with the stupid that got you banned and will get you ignored too. | [10:15] |
| d41r2: | what? I mean, is that reason why I was banned? "you're not answering the question" | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, *you* have a load of questions you never answered. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | d41r2: read the logs! the reason is given in there in ample detail and I won't say it again. | [10:16] |
| d41r2: | she charged her gun | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: any eta on that proposed voice model for chans? | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | d41r2: to make it perfectly clear: you have the choice to go through all the log, collect those questions you ignored or refused to answer so far and then answer them in here one by one; only after you do that, you may ask for further clarification and/or talk in here; alternatively, you can of course either register a new key and restart this in a saner way and without all the stupid or otherwise get back to whatever you were doing … | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | … and forget about this place as it's not for you. | [11:11] |
| d41r2: | wow, you are a violent person, did you know that? | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | with idiocy I'm violent, yes; it's a requirement for sane living; just like being "violent" with pests is. | [11:13] |
| d41r2: | diana_coman: cool down, when you're in a more calm mood, we can resume our chat | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | when d41r* will finally aim to get rid of his stupidity instead of increasing it, then and only then we can resume chat. | [11:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re focusing on having 1 VM/IP running smoothly before connecting all of them. | [11:22] |
| whaack: | and I will write a car article | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds good. | [11:22] |
| whaack: | maybe it's because i'm an aegist but I don't think that d41r* has been around the sun 30 times yet | [11:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-06 16:43:32 diana_coman: d41r: are you 30+ by any chance? | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | who cares really. | [11:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suppose giving it something more to read before the seemingly inevitable return is prudent, but I have doubts it'll be read with intent The basics and some discussion of actual attacks | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | not that I didn't link the ref for him to start with but by all means, if only he starts actually reading for figuring things out instead of going on about what he imagines, sure. | [11:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 15:01:48 diana_coman: c0ncord: specifically re what the WoT is | [11:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: He's committed to shyness which offers a grim prognosis. Especially with his feelings doing him in. In the best probable case he spins over the second link a while before noising it up again. | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: shyness you think? to me it looks more like he's fully soaked in ~all the stupid he could find, from "muh anonymity" to "decentralised but not with PEOPLE in it because oh, the horror, PEOPLE??" | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | I guess the "violence is bad at all times" was predictable in there too. | [12:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | Seems like a terminal case, yes. Other people are characters he may or may not be fond of, but he's special enough to be a star anonymously under the bed. | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | myeah; it's ok, the under-bed is a fully non-violent place. | [12:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | It only looks that way until other folks bust in to make loving violence on top of the bed. | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah, true; there might also be some who still do cleaning properly; it's a tough life! | [12:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, if he comes back with an open mind and his own blog, I'm open to seeing if he can be put to work for Qntra's benefit in a way that forces him to challenge the shyness. | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | if. | [12:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right, the conditional is important. I'm not interested in this one in particular beyond it showing up in engagement range. These things are the largest export of the Anglophone space these past few decades. | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | eh, he clearly thinks in French (though most probably quebecois, to be precise). | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | come to think of it, ain't that the funniest part about "muh anonymity", that his very words betray him. | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | lol, fingerprinting is a thing. | [12:29] |
| hanbot_abroad: | diana_coman that's a violent observation!!1 | [12:29] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot_abroad: ahahaha, indeed it is!!1 | [12:29] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/08/rmd-plan-feb-8-14th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Feb 8-14th, 2020 | [13:06] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017861 – what stood out to me from the latest round was the conflation of "words that make me uncomfortable" with violence, and violence per se with aggression. But the reason I bring it up is to ask, does an emphasis on those distinctions reflect an unhelpful remnant of non-aggression-ism on my part? Trilema for example seems to routinely walk | [13:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 12:04:47 diana_coman: I guess the "violence is bad at all times" was predictable in there too. | [13:33] |
| jfw: | all over them. | [13:33] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017815 << of course, this should have been my first step | [13:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 04:53:53 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017738 – billymg, maybe ask Hannah since she surely has experience with this in CR? iirc the best bet was anyway some redundancy at the very least. | [13:48] |
| billymg: | asking over in trilema-hanbot | [13:48] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017875 – well, to the extent that you are careful about using the exact word at all times, it doesn't have to mean anything else beyond that but I can't say just like that; so what are the exact distinctions that you make? | [15:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 13:33:51 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017861 – what stood out to me from the latest round was the conflation of "words that make me uncomfortable" with violence, and violence per se with aggression. But the reason I bring it up is to ask, does an emphasis on those distinctions reflect an unhelpful remnant of non-aggression-ism on my part? Trilema for example seems to routinely walk | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, I can actually see d41r*'s point: he followed all the rules that he's accustomed to (while conveniently ignoring everything that didn't fit the rules because yeah, easier that way) and then surprise, I ban him outright!!! And so yeah, "no answer" that he could see because what is there doesn't fit what his rules says is *permitted* to be there, hence… it must be that this diana_coman is just crazy/moody etc; and if … | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | … she outright and explicitly breaks the politeness rules then she's the bad too, aka "violent". | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what/how much experience do you have with presentations ? | [15:31] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I've made and delivered a half dozen or so last year. Prior to that it had been a while. | [15:39] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017537 – cool, I expect to be here, looking forward to it! | [15:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 23:36:38 whaack: jfw and dorion: i'm booking flights to Panama for April 2nd – April 9th, i hope you two around around then :) | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so is it something you are at ease with then? or still working on figuring out or what? | [15:39] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm at relative ease with it. On the making the presentation, I'm using latex beamer, which I'm comfortable with. On the delivering the presentation, I'm comfortable with the content, aim to keep it simple, engage the audience as much as possible and practice the delivery on a timer. | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sounds good then; anyway, simply speak up if you want feedback on the draft, for whatever that's worth. | [15:47] |
| dorion: | thanks, will do. | [15:49] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: let's see, one distinction that I actually don't see involved here but I seem to have referenced above is between feeling upset/hurt/offended by words, which may just reflect one's internal state, and whether the words are indeed strong, violent, forceful, vehement or similar. … | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how do you tell if one set of words is strong/violent/forceful/vehement or ..not? they are just words after all, aren't they? | [15:55] |
| jfw: | The second does seem to be some bad programming in my head where 'violence' means infliction of physical harm specifically. The dictionary and reflecting on obvious usage doesn't sustain this. | [15:56] |
| jfw: | The third (just to finish setting these down) is violence versus aggression, wherein aggression is violence with no cause in the actions of the subject. I can see how d41r would perceive the words as aggressive if he thought he followed all the (convenient) rules as you mention | [15:58] |
| jfw: | er, s/subject/object/ I think: recipient of the violence | [15:58] |
| jfw: | how do I tell? hm, possibly one can't tell objectively from the words alone, without knowing the state of mind of the speaker | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | well, it's dubious if anyone/everyone fully knows their own state of mind at any time, let alone that of someone else so that's not all that much to rely on really. | [16:02] |
| jfw: | knowing one's own might be harder than another's even | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: in principle there is threat and then there is violence so strictly speaking it would be as you say – either it's physical so violence or otherwise it's *at most* a threat. | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | common usage is relaxed to the point that one prefixes "physical violence" and so on, sure; the thing is that if you want to be able to talk about things, you need to first define them so taking the "common usage" when it's so muddled up is not going to help much. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | well from Webster's 1913 via gutenberg, violence is "1. The quality or state of being violent [gee, thanks]; highly excited action, whether physical or moral; vehemence; impetuosity; force. That seal You ask with such a violence, the king, Mine and your master, with his own hand gave me. Shak." | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, such definitions | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | we'll get to that basic of questions: jfw, what's a definition supposed to do exactly so it qualifies as a definition? | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | (the 1st one there is circular as you noticed and the rest are at best ~synonyms + example; I feel all of a sudden like at one of those "caminul cultural" aka ~village's cultural "institution") | [16:12] |
| jfw: | this seems a bit too shallow but: a definition is supposed to inform you of what a word means, in terms of simpler constructs | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | (come to think of it, since I kicked the guy out of chan, does the virtual kick qualifies as virtual/cyber violence – since a real kick would, presumably, qualify?) | [16:14] |
| jfw: | violation of his packet sending rights! | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | hm, as in taking apart the word to express it out of …subwords of sorts? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | the violation (is that rape?) of rights is already yet another layer on the soup of nonsense, yeah. | [16:17] |
| jfw: | that doesn't sound like it could do the job really, not sure what would a sub-word be | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's the role of a definition of a concept? (perhaps that gives you a clue) | [16:18] |
| jfw: | to delineate what is or isn't covered by the concept | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | aha; and given that knowledge is structured, that means something very specific. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | (on the violation of rights, it strikes me in the background that it could very well be that I violated his wrongs!) | [16:22] |
| jfw: | I'd seen that "proximate genus and specific difference" thing somewhere or other but not quite grasped it. And now I know where that "flat-nailed featherless bipeds" thing qntra's been using comes from, heh | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you grasp it now or is it still unclear | [16:25] |
| jfw: | hm, one thing that still gets me about it is, does that definition conform to itself? "A definition is that sort of ??? which includes the proximate genus and specific difference" | [16:28] |
| jfw: | perhaps this is trivial though. maybe ??? could be… "declaration"? | [16:29] |
| jfw: | to the example of "violence", the "highly excited action" part would be a suitable definition as I understand it then the rest is sorta there to point out some aspects of the concept and connections | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | ah, you mean that it's not set there as a definition of a definition, heh; so set it then: what's the proximate genus for definition and what makes it different from the rest in that genus | [16:31] |
| jfw: | genus: declarative sentence concerning a concept; difference: that it states the proximate genus and specific difference | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: not bad, is it? | [16:36] |
| jfw: | I think not. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | so a definition is a declarative sentence that states the proximate genus and specific difference for a given concept. | [16:38] |
| jfw: | Although I'm not certain we can exclude incomplete sentences | [16:39] |
| jfw: | I'm also not certain whether an incomplete sentence is considered a type of sentence, heh | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what do you mean? | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | incomplete sentence as in …part of a sentence? | [16:41] |
| jfw: | right, lacking a verb for instance. I suppose it's a technicality since one can readily furnish the verb for a given definition | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if it's "lacking" a verb in the sense that it's …implicit, then yeah, you're just being pedantic there for no good reason; if it's missing a verb in the sense that the result is nonsensical then…it's not a sentence so what are you on about, lol. | [16:44] |
| jfw: | so "Violence is that kind of action that is highly excited in its nature" could be the full expansion for that sense | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, that's how they got to the "violent passions, overruling the weaker sex", see? | [16:45] |
| jfw: | I suppose I'm used to defining things for compilers which can be quite pedantic indeed. /me looks up that ref | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: funnily enough though you don't – happily! – speak like for compilers too! | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, the ref is possibly quite obscure, Lloyd's "Observations on the Fall of Sir Thomas Lake"; but the idea was more prevalent anyway, if not expressed exactly in those words otherwise/in other places. | [16:52] |
| dorion: | tends to look up etymology as a first step towards understanding. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: as a first step it surely helps; as long as it's clear it's just a step though, not the full travel. | [17:01] |
| dorion: | I primarily use duckduckgo as browser default search because redirects to https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=violence | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | this is btw why I was saying last time: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016856 | [17:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 16:37:22 diana_coman: well, that risks the trouble with not seeing the woods for the trees among other things. | [17:01] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aha. yeah, there's room for me to improve there. | [17:03] |
| jfw: | yeah but then do I need an all-Latin dictionary to get any further than "comes from violentia"?! | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, the more you know, the more you realise there's… more to know! | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | is that surprising? | [17:04] |
| jfw: | not especially. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | you mean perhaps "not violently surprising" | [17:04] |
| jfw: | but there is that, what was it called – memory hole effect, where the brain fails to generalize | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | well, the brain fails all the time really, it's basically expert at dealing with failures mostly. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and you'll never get to know *everything* anyway so if you want absolutely to despair, there's your opportunity right there. | [17:06] |
| jfw: | sure; I'd quite like to "at least" know what the words I use mean! But I'm getting the sense this is quite comparable to "knowing what a program means" requiring knowing the whole compiler and machine to really get there | [17:10] |
| jfw: | anyway I turned up a footnote in a "Memoirs of the Peers of England during the Reign of James the First", p. 473, "After Sir Robert Cecil's time the place of Secretary was divided into two; and not long after Sir Thomas was appointed one; and so continued with honourable esteem of all men, until malice and revenge, two violent passions overruling the weaker sex, concerning his wife and daughter, | [17:14] |
| jfw: | involved him in their quarrel, the chief and only cause of his ruin." | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, it's possibly worse in that if you aim for "fully know what the words mean" like that, generically, then I'd say it's an unbounded thing really – sure, you can get away with "knowing the definition as proximate genus + specific difference!" but note that the quality of your definitions depends inevitably on the wealth of detail in your tree of knowledge, heh; and add to it the … | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | … conceits and you're done for. | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha, that Sir Thomas indeed. | [17:15] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Feb-2020#1017887 – somehow thought I'd replied here but seems not; I expect to be here too. | [17:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-08 15:39:23 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017537 – cool, I expect to be here, looking forward to it! | [17:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent the day looking at cars and purchased one in the end, details to follow in an article. I have no completed work to report, after I returned I went to a local bbq | [23:22] |
#ossasepia Logs for 07 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I only completed my revised article for TheFleet. I distracted myself for part of the day by responding to the concerns that arose from a meatwot friend having seen a comment from mp on ztkfg + then reading trilema | [02:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol, did you put their concerns to sleep at least? | [06:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that photo article made a lovely start to my day. | [06:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: hardcore classicist this Chad friend of yours I gather; all downhill from beethoven, heh. | [06:49] |
| feedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/07/thinkpad-in-gales/ << Ossa Sepia — Thinkpad in Gales | [11:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: maybe slightly but i don't think so. the politics are a 180 | [11:49] |
| whaack: | 180 degree turn* | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, the gain usually is simply to get them to engage (in this case to get them to comment on your blog first, on trilema then etc) rather than attempt the sort of turning on the spot anyway; unless you really want to apply that ever useful advice to "use a bigger hammer" to put ~everything to sleep, ofc. | [11:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean by "'use a bigger hammer' to put ~everything to sleep"? | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol, it's the "rule of (non)engineering" – if it doesn't work/fit/start/stop, you can *always* use a …bigger hammer; literally! | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | in the case of other people's concerns, it usually goes along the lines of giving them worse to be concerned about. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | aha | [12:06] |
| whaack: | jfw: do you use znc with yrc / have instructions anywhere for setting that up? | [16:17] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017693 – for sure. though he's also been known to indulge Tool and Jimi Hendrix since I suppose Bach and Mozart didn't express every emotion. | [16:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 06:49:25 diana_coman: dorion: hardcore classicist this Chad friend of yours I gather; all downhill from beethoven, heh. | [16:20] |
| dorion: | whaack nah. we run yrc on a server in a tmux. | [16:21] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Feb-2020#1017692 – glad to hear it and the thinkpadingales one made a lovely start to mine. | [16:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-07 06:35:39 diana_coman: jfw: that photo article made a lovely start to my day. | [16:25] |
| jfw: | whaack: I have not used bouncers and don't know how they do their thing; if they're supposed to be compatible with a normal irc server then I expect it should work | [16:25] |
| whaack: | jfw: There's a property "login name" separate from "nick" on my current client, and I believe that needs to be set appropriately for znc. The other property that gets used is 'server password' | [16:27] |
| whaack: | jfw: But I think I will use your tmux method. | [16:28] |
| jfw: | normal irc has a username separate from nick as well, and yrc can give a password on login | [16:28] |
| jfw: | It doesn't look like I've made it possible to set the username differently from the nick though. Some clients implicitly grab it from your OS username which I always thought kinda rude. | [16:31] |
| d41r: | how do you guys import all the wot keys into your gpg client? | [16:32] |
| jfw: | d41r: typically one only imports those in one's own WoT or that one is otherwise interested in | [16:35] |
| d41r: | that sounds like mining bitcoin with a pencil and a leaf of paper | [16:36] |
| jfw: | lol, do you expect to have meaningful & important conversations with everyone in there or what? | [16:37] |
| d41r: | what is the purpose of the WOT if you can't use it? | [16:38] |
| d41r: | (unless doing a lot of manual stuff) | [16:38] |
| d41r: | btw, something's broken, my nick still does not appear on the "D" page | [16:41] |
| dorion: | d41r join #trinque and ping raise it with trinque there. note that http://wot.deedbot.org/5092C1145245B67517A6CC1C8FE0D8F9352472FC.html exists. | [16:44] |
| d41r: | dorion: thanks, i guess you need rating before appearing on the list, or something like that | [16:45] |
| jfw: | d41r, again with not answering the question. What do you suppose automation would achieve there? Why would I care about the set of all alleged identities that've been announced somewhere, except perhaps for research projects? | [16:47] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017311 << very productive, including a meeting about the fiber optic line with the technician you put me in touch with (thanks again) | [16:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 13:10:30 whaack: travel_billy: how has the rest of your trip turned out? | [16:48] |
| whaack: | billymg: nice. | [16:49] |
| billymg: | back in tx now, with a multipage todo list in my notebook to chew through before the move date | [16:49] |
| billymg: | yeah, turns out the only fiber service they can offer me is enterprise tier, not residential (which he explained is split between 5 businesses vs. residential which is split between 25 homes) | [16:51] |
| billymg: | cost for 10/10 is about 80/mo | [16:51] |
| billymg: | 3 month buildout to lay the cable, need to first fill out an RFP to get a detailed proposal from them | [16:52] |
| billymg: | going to do that and also research to see if there are other ISPs serving that area | [16:52] |
| billymg: | (perhaps BingoBoingo can weigh on whether this all sounds legit or not based on his experience with latam internet service) | [16:53] |
| whaack: | billymg: does your place have dsl in the meantime? | [16:53] |
| d41r: | jfw: "Obtaining the PGP/GPG key of an author (or developer, publisher, etc.) from a public key server also presents risks, since the key server is a third-party middle-man, itself vulnerable to abuse or attacks. To avoid this risk, an author can instead choose to publish their public key on their own key server (i.e., a web server accessible through a domain name owned by them, and securely located in | [16:53] |
| d41r: | their private office or home) and require the use of HKPS-encrypted connections for the transmission of their public key. For details, see WOT Assisting Solutions below." from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_of_trust#Problems | [16:53] |
| billymg: | whaack: previous owners had _something_, will have to look into that as temp measure as well | [16:54] |
| d41r: | just a reminder that wot.deedbot.org is totally unencrypted | [16:55] |
| whaack: | lol @ wikipedia article explaining how something else is 'vulnerable to abuse or attacks' | [16:55] |
| billymg: | but i think best option might be one of those cellular hotspots and a data plan, provided i can find one that has LTE coverage where i am (which i know exists because some people visiting the property were getting it on their phones) | [16:55] |
| whaack: | billymg: yes, you're going to want the cellular hotspot + data plan anyways | [16:56] |
| d41r: | in the case of mitm or any other attack on wot.deedbot.org we're basically… fucked | [16:56] |
| d41r: | it's 100\% unencrypted and centralized | [16:56] |
| jfw: | d41r, how would you authenticate someone's dns private home hkps etc without already having their key? | [16:56] |
| d41r: | is that the case of wot.deedbot.org? | [16:57] |
| jfw: | not sure what you mean there really. | [16:59] |
| d41r: | deedbot's wot is 100\% unencrypted and centralized | [17:00] |
| jfw: | is it possible deedbot serves a malicious key? sure, as it's possible someone registers "d4lr" to try some social engineering, or my name isn't really jfw. Building trust starts from human relationships, the tools follow | [17:01] |
| jfw: | what would encryption accomplish anyway? public keys necessarily are… public | [17:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | billymg: This doesn't sound too abnormal. You probably want to ask everyone in the country, if everyone needs to build to get to you… You're essentially working as a small rural ISP yourself. | [17:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | And if they are calling the service "enterprise" all of the 10/10 should be yours. | [17:03] |
| billymg: | BingoBoingo: that was the only part that sounded funny to me too, "enterprise" being split between 5 | [17:04] |
| dorion: | d41r it's always best to meet in person and exchange keys, which many people have already done, which means someone will probably notice if someone tries to mitm and they'll speak up ;) | [17:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: jfw any myself met, exchanged key fingerprints, ate very cheesy pizza, good times to be had breaking out of the 'anon' bubble | [17:05] |
| billymg: | and yes, when he told me this i started thinking about using this for my personal hosting needs, although i'm not sure if it's a good idea to mix blog/bouncer hosting with what will also be my home internet | [17:05] |
| dorion: | d41r then jfw brought me one of BingoBoingo's business cards with fingerprint and voila. | [17:06] |
| whaack: | d41r: And I have BingoBoingo's fingerprint through meeting jfw | [17:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | billymg: At the very least see what every ISP in Costa Rica can offer your place. I suspect that the monthly price per bps can drop quite a bit if you get more speed. | [17:07] |
| jfw: | I'm patient 0 of the dreaded uruguayo identivirus! | [17:07] |
| d41r: | jfw: an attacker could substitute a considerable amount of public keys with his own public keys, at any moment, and intercept private communication channels (irc, email, etc.) | [17:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: One advantage of blog keeping is being able to publish your own keys for folks to compare. | [17:08] |
| d41r: | …on unencrypted web servers | [17:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | "An attacker can" many things. | [17:08] |
| dorion: | d41r there's no substitute for getting to know people. | [17:08] |
| d41r: | then yet again… what is the purpose of having wot.deedbot.org? | [17:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: What's your understanding of the "Heartbleed" episode | [17:09] |
| billymg: | BingoBoingo: makes sense | [17:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | <d41r> then yet again… what is the purpose of having wot.deedbot.org? << Repository for ratings. | [17:09] |
| d41r: | BingoBoingo: a lot of work updating stuff, I remember | [17:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: It allowed reading arbitrary bits of memory while creating no loglines on the victim machine. | [17:10] |
| d41r: | BingoBoingo: great, that you need to manually verify and manually replicate on your own personal WoT | [17:10] |
| d41r: | I mean, this is not a new problem, Keybase exists for a reason. | [17:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: This is actually something a bit of scripting can assist, but yes. It is my WoT and keybase doesn't exist for it. | [17:11] |
| whaack: | jfw or anyone else: does your normal work flow involve being in an x session? if so, do you use a tool to hotkey the movement of windows? | [17:11] |
| jfw: | whaack, I sometimes use tiling window managers and otherwise might use alt-click to drag them around, not sure what movement you have in mind though | [17:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: I didn't acquire all the public keys in my keyring all in one gulp if that's what you are asking. | [17:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | It happened 2012/2013 through present and it is ongoing | [17:14] |
| whaack: | jfw: i'm looking for a way to hotkey "move + resize active window to left/right half of screen" (and top/bottom left/right corner) | [17:15] |
| whaack: | looks like yes, the term for what i'm looking for is a 'tiling window manager' | [17:17] |
| jfw: | whaack: I don't know a thing that does specifically that other than it's what the tiling ones do full-time, though many have hotkeys for vertical or horizontal maximize | [17:17] |
| dorion: | d41r how does PKI protect you from CAs diddling the WoT ? | [19:09] |
| d41r: | it doesn't | [19:11] |
| dorion: | good. so why do you want it ? | [19:12] |
| d41r: | when I said I wanted it? | [19:13] |
| d41r: | pki is shit, bro, it's literally technological shit | [19:13] |
| d41r: | the epitome of centralization | [19:14] |
| d41r: | what I did say is that we don't even have that level of shitty protection, we're totally unprotected right now, we only got the centralization and no protection, not even a shitty one | [19:16] |
| d41r: | I think I'll work on solving that. | [19:16] |
| dorion: | d41r hm, perhaps I inferred incorrectly, apologies. | [19:18] |
| d41r: | no worries | [19:20] |
| dorion: | I disagree that there's no protection though. e.g. I put the probability of me having an incorrect key for jfw at ~0\%. | [19:20] |
| d41r: | well, yeah, maybe next time I aqcuire teleportation powers I'll meet each one of you while wearing a mask (muh anonymity) so that we can exchange keys, jokes, and drink beer together | [19:22] |
| dorion: | and , e.g. if he did end up issuing a new key signed by the one I now have, I'd not allocate the same level of trust until I verified it in person. | [19:22] |
| d41r: | meanwhile, as I don't have many teleportation powers (or money for plane tickets, for that matter), I'll go with a more remote approach, like keybase.io, just decentralized | [19:24] |
| d41r: | for now, if anyone wants to pm me, you can use this script I wrote: http://dpaste.com/32P2SSB , and a lot of trust on this link: http://wot.deedbot.org/5092C1145245B67517A6CC1C8FE0D8F9352472FC.html | [19:28] |
| dorion: | d41r don't take it personal, but I wouldn't hold my breath for that if I were you. I'm open to be corrected, but I think it's safe to say the logs are a big reason people are here. | [19:35] |
| d41r: | I'll put it this other way: don't pm me unless you encrypt your messages. | [19:41] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Feb-2020#1017538 – thank you for the update. | [21:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-06 01:11:58 lobbes: dorion: just to explicitly state it somewhere: I'm pulling off of tmsr os work for now while I sort out some other priorities. | [21:23] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/08/rmd-review-feb-1st-7th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Feb 1st-7th, 2020 | [21:24] |
| dorion: | diana_coman my review was a bit on the heavy side and I have some potential clients to meet up with for an hour or two. my plan is to be back in relative early tonight, sleep at a decent hour and make the plan tomorrow am. I hope that doesn't throw off your plan for tomorrow. | [21:34] |
| d41r: | dorion: clients? | [21:43] |
| d41r: | what do you sell? | [21:43] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016795 << ok, I won't sign a patch that removes functionality I use. no biggie either way, but I question this "PROGRAM MAY NOT HAVE FLAGS" undercurrent implicit. | [22:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 10:35:49 whaack: trinque: I agree with diana_coman and so in the end decided to remove the rejoin on kick feature altogether | [22:31] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017513 << yeah, the guy can sign the new key with the old, and I'll get around to it. I don't mind. | [22:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 16:54:35 jfw: your best bet would be to join #trinque and ask trinque nicely | [22:32] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Feb-2020#1017555 << thanks for flagging that. I'll fix. | [22:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-06 11:21:30 d41r: trinque: https://0x0.st/iic8.png | [22:32] |
| d41r: | what about trb? has it forked from btc's chain? | [23:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 06 Feb 2020
| lobbes: | dorion: just to explicitly state it somewhere: I'm pulling off of tmsr os work for now while I sort out some other priorities. | [01:11] |
| whaack: | s/around around/are around/ | [02:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I made some more progress setting up my comp, finishing eulora, installing gnat and gprbuild, and getting jfw's yrc client running. I spent a decent chunk of time on The Odyssey article since as mentioned I had nothing prepped from yesterday. I'm going to return to focusing on TheFleet tomorrow. | [02:34] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017535 – are you some sort of nut? vim.cx the site that does shit in your browser and "I only do this to see who does that", jeez. | [04:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 21:55:15 d41r: to see who asks what it is | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Feb-2020#1017540 – sounds ok. | [04:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-06 02:34:36 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I made some more progress setting up my comp, finishing eulora, installing gnat and gprbuild, and getting jfw's yrc client running. I spent a decent chunk of time on The Odyssey article since as mentioned I had nothing prepped from yesterday. I'm going to return to focusing on TheFleet tomorrow. | [04:07] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: since you seem to quite enjoy the qntra writing, maybe think of taking BingoBoingo's course then? | [04:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: why's that Ode to Joy article late since you already recorded the piece anyway? | [04:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 15:15:46 dorion: finally, recorded the harmonica piece, ode to joy, last night. | [04:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: it's rather impossible to follow there too since there was the draft of tmsor dependencies page due Tuesday meanwhile moved to Friday, the draf conf presentation that is hanging somewhere this week too, additional comments to publish supposedly, the ode to joy due yest and silently missed, the deaths article due today supposedly (though not that expectedly anymore … | [04:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 17:12:17 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017365 – Friday is feasible for the draft. I will want feedback, but it's not a big rush. people are working through backlogs already and trinque has a specification planned as part 5 of his series. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | … given the backlog), it's a whole list already. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | is anything going to get done today? | [04:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: comment in your modq | [09:13] |
| d41r: | diana_coman: http://dpaste.com/194PW3Y.txt | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: do me a favour and paste it on paste.deedbot.org, will you? | [11:14] |
| d41r: | trinque: https://0x0.st/iic8.png | [11:21] |
| d41r: | shouldn't you change it too? | [11:21] |
| d41r: | diana_coman: paste.deedbot.org doesn't have an api | [11:26] |
| d41r: | or does it? | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: you can send to it with your favourite script, it's basic http, not sure what are you after there. | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | need something more complicated for a paste? | [11:27] |
| d41r: | nah, it's ok | [11:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | curl, it's a tool | [11:43] |
| d41r: | BingoBoingo: how do you get the server response with curl after POST? | [11:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | iirc -d opens possibilities, but this is one of the things I'm not very strong with | [11:46] |
| d41r: | dpaste.com's api allows me to script the whole thing | [11:48] |
| d41r: | paste.deedbot.org on the other hand forces me to use a browser-like library that will refresh the "page" in order to get a response from the server | [11:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Ah "Expect: 100-continue" | [11:49] |
| d41r: | oh, thanks, let me check that out | [11:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | will have to look into this. Apparently there's a -L flag for redirects and all sorts of knobs for going beyond the basics. | [11:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: approved | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: can I have feedbot announce ossasepia articles in here too, please? | [11:58] |
| spyked: | diana_coman, was just getting to some feedbot updates, I'll add it in a moment | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: yay, thank you! | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thanks; do you know of the distinction I'm talking about in that comment? | [12:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as in the distinction of being vs doing? I thought there was no distinction, what you do defines who you are. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | i am reading the links atm | [12:07] |
| spyked: | diana_coman: aand done! yw | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aha, read then, there's a lot to it. | [12:07] |
| d41r: | BingoBoingo: # curl -si -X POST -F "pastebox=" http://paste.deedbot.org/ grep Location sed 's/Location: //' | [12:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright i'm on it. a little trilema and a little ossasepia is a nice way to start the day. chewing on http://trilema.com/2016/the-burial-and-the-impossible-object/ atm. | [12:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: Nice, congrats | [12:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: Anyways, the system comes with tools. Something I'm trying to work on myself is getting a better grasp of how to use those tools. It smooths the workflow and prevents constantly reinventing the wheel | [12:34] |
| d41r: | what system? | [12:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: Ones that aren't Windows | [12:38] |
| d41r: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=EpTj | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: heh, it took a whole one line to replace a full api you were looking for, right? | [13:47] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I will consider it. I have the flu or something like that today so I will be a bit unresponsive. | [14:23] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Feb-2020#1017551 – yeah, I let it turn into a mess that's getting cleaned up today. | [14:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-06 04:19:54 diana_coman: is anything going to get done today? | [14:26] |
| d41r: | what are you guys working on? | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: taking over the world! | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | see the blogs, people are writing there about what they are doing, no? | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: what are you working on and/or where do you write about it? | [15:32] |
| d41r: | i do not write | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | and you do not answer; and you do not talk either; so dunno, what do you want from being here? | [15:59] |
| d41r: | what? i do answer | [16:02] |
| d41r: | and talk | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: selectively, lol | [16:02] |
| d41r: | well, i'm shy, ok? | [16:02] |
| d41r: | right now i'm writing this script to facilitate sending and receiving gpg messages | [16:03] |
| d41r: | http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=38Cn | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: there is some tension between convenience and protecting your private key, you know? | [16:05] |
| d41r: | what do you mean? | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | your private key is your identity around here because think of it, how can anyone know it's "you" ? | [16:06] |
| d41r: | don't you like the script? is that what you mean? | [16:06] |
| d41r: | i don't think it poses any risk to private keys | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: what I mean is exactly what I say: there's that tension and it seems you don't even realise it. | [16:07] |
| d41r: | why do you assume that? | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | what assumption do you think I'm making? | [16:08] |
| d41r: | that i don't even realising such obvious thing | [16:08] |
| d41r: | *i'm not | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | ah, all right then, good for you. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | see, it's enough to say it and I'll gladly correct. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: what do you think poses a risk to private keys? | [16:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | d41r: I'm going to assume you've been indoctrinated with the "anonymity good" fashion popular in other parts, so I'm going to ask you age in a low resolution way. Are you a zoomer, millenial, gen X-er, boomer, or ancient | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I wouldn't be able to answer that question myself, lolz. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | he could just give it in whatever interval he's fine with, numbers are still numbers. | [16:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: lol, that's a point | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: don't be shy, there's no need for it. | [16:20] |
| d41r: | http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=XjnZ ok, done, I hope it helps someone some day | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: well, being on a paste, it will be gone in 24 hours or so, you know? otoh if you had a blog and wrote it there, it would stay there and maybe indeed be of some use to someone some day; why pass on your own work accumulating benefits for yourself? | [16:21] |
| d41r: | (i'm afraid i know what the answer will look like but..) what about git? | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: git means it's someone else who gets the accumulated benefit of your work such as it is, you know? | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: are you really looking for someone to own you ? | [16:24] |
| d41r: | isn't that the case with a blog as well? | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: if it's *yours*, how can it be? | [16:25] |
| d41r: | what do you mean by "yours"? i'll have to host it somewhere ,right? | [16:26] |
| d41r: | or you mean gpg signing every new entry? | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: hosting it somewhere simply means that you rent some space for it; how does that make it not yours? if something happens, you move somewhere else. | [16:26] |
| d41r: | isn't that the same with git hosting services? | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: V patches are signed and for good reasons; but otherwise no, I don't mean signing all text. | [16:27] |
| d41r: | mm ok | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: no, it's not the same. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | because you do not have any control over github and moreover you are effectively the goat in that pen or how you prefer to put it | [16:28] |
| d41r: | for example, i get sick of microsoft ruinning github, i can migrate pretty easily my repo to codeberg.org or gitea.snopyta.org | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: but more directly: why are you so much against actually owning /controlling anything? | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: ie you go from one pen to another and that's ok because god forbid you actually ever make your own house where you get to be the master, is that the idea? | [16:28] |
| d41r: | i do own my repo, on my computer, the "host" (in this case codeberg.org or whichever i upload to) is only a mirror/hub | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | ah, you are fine to own, just as long as it's in private ie nobody can really care about it? | [16:30] |
| d41r: | well, that's a good point | [16:31] |
| d41r: | writing about what you do makes your work become popular eventually (or not, if it sucks) | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: there's even more benefit than just that really. | [16:32] |
| d41r: | and even if it doesn't become popular, it's good having feedback | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: after all, think of…how you found this place here; would you have found it you think if I and everyone else around here kept our stuff private because reasons? | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | yes, feedback, getting to know people you actually might want to know and/or work with, and that's still just for starters. | [16:33] |
| d41r: | there are things that i prefer to stay private, but whatever i work on, i'm fine with letting the world know | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: what/why are you not fine with having your own site for showcasing it though? | [16:33] |
| d41r: | i'm fine with that, yeah | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | so set it up and let me know url + ip, I'll come and visit, what. | [16:34] |
| d41r: | i plan to publish a website on a decentralized platform that i'm working on, based on ipfs and blockchain | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | oh dear | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: is that OTR plugin something you work/worked on? | [16:36] |
| d41r: | (why did i know that you weren't gonna like it) | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | possibly because I have clear causes for my likes and dislikes, did it occur to you? | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | heh | [16:36] |
| d41r: | no, OTR is pretty standard stuff, it's old tech actually, people are moving to more recent developments like Old and Megolm | [16:37] |
| d41r: | OMEMO still has some traction | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [16:38] |
| d41r: | I like OTR more because it's truly end-to-end | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | obviously | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: does that "move to more recent developments" ring absolutely no problem bells for you? | [16:38] |
| d41r: | absolutely yes | [16:38] |
| d41r: | i mean, i hate Matrix, for example, and ipfs to some extent | [16:39] |
| d41r: | ipfs however does what i need, gonna use it until something better appears | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: uhm, I'm happily ignorant of any need to use ipfs or whatever other similars. | [16:40] |
| d41r: | newer/frequently-updated doesn't mean "good" | [16:40] |
| d41r: | bittorrent? ipfs is similar | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: nevertheless you seem very much in the know with the newer stuff and that takes time and resources so ..why spend them there at all. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | I still don't see the need, lol. | [16:41] |
| d41r: | well, that's true, it takes a lot of time, and it is tiresome some times | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: so…don't do it, you know? nothing to gain, lots to lose; and there's no single second of your own time that you'll ever get back. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: are you 30+ by any chance? | [16:43] |
| d41r: | it doesn't matter, don't be an ageist ^^ | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: it fits your actions and outlook, it's not about ageist. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | and do note that "don't be an x-ist" is such a poor cover that it's almost sad really. | [16:44] |
| d41r: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=NnAx | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: do you plan on sending me a string of gpg-grams? | [16:54] |
| d41r: | ehe, encrypted with your public key, you can decrypt it | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | sure I *can*; question is …why should I? | [16:55] |
| d41r: | you may choose not to, but that's a risk I'm willing to take, hehe | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: how is it a risk? | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | and seriously, my question above is genuine; while I'm open and willing to talk to you to find such reasons, I'm not going now to decrypt everything everyone throws at me, why would I. | [16:58] |
| d41r: | don't do it if you don't wish, no worries | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | can't say I follow your reasoning there but…ok. | [17:00] |
| d41r: | http://wot.deedbot.org/D.html how to get my key listed there? | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | d41r: if you registered your key with deedbot it will get there, it just takes some time until it updates the site. | [17:07] |
| d41r: | ok, I'll wait the most serenly. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | well, you can fret if you prefer. | [17:08] |
| d41r: | ^^ | [17:09] |
#ossasepia Logs for 05 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I let installing Eulora eat up the better part of my day. I fell short on my saltmine hours (I only did 5) and also did not do my 1.5 hour of outlining for my article to be published tomorrow. | [00:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Feb-2020#1017292 – aha; that's why it helps to have a ton of motivation from the wider picture than any specific task itself. | [04:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-04 23:17:27 jfw: Already grabbed the lower hanging fruits so quite possible that's why I wasn't feeling so motivated for picking it back up. | [04:00] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017293 – you know, it looks like you'd rather focus on something until you're done with it and then move on; it's not necessarily a problem in itself, just adjust accordingly so the rest still gets done even if on another day. | [04:02] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 00:22:21 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I let installing Eulora eat up the better part of my day. I fell short on my saltmine hours (I only did 5) and also did not do my 1.5 hour of outlining for my article to be published tomorrow. | [04:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that's part of it, i thought about just switching my saltmines day to today and finishing up the job entirely. I probably should have, but I wanted to stick to what was left of my schedule. | [11:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: in any event, i'll allocate 90 mins to fix the next problem with installing this morning: 'configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro _AC_CC' | [11:10] |
| whaack: | the versions of some relevant tools: autoconf: 2.63 ; libtool 2.2.6b; automake 1.11.1 | [11:16] |
| whaack: | i fixed my problem by upgrading to autoconf 2.69. redhat ships autoconf 2.63 with centos 6, so i'm not quite sure how i wound up with autoconf 2.63 in the first place. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, so it was version trouble indeed; anyways, well done sorting it out. | [12:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-04 15:35:25 diana_coman: whaack: uhm, I didn't run into that either; it really sounds like you are missing something/have mismatched versions | [12:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: when you get an opportunity can you gpg me my eulora credentials? | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: o.O you said you already had an account? | [12:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes.. the credentials are stored on a desktop that I did not take out of the reich | [12:23] |
| diana_coman: | … | [12:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | Ouch | [12:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Although I would much prefer to not have to, I understand if I have to wait until I make a visit home to get it. And in full disclosure I've made a similar / the same mistake before. | [12:35] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-01-13 mircea_popescu: whaack oh didn't you have one already ? | [12:35] |
| whaack: | travel_billy: how has the rest of your trip turned out? | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017304 – to put it plainly: I can; I am not convinced that I should and you are certainly not helping there much because the way it looks you clearly consider those credentials worth ~0 and/or other people's problem. | [13:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 12:17:39 whaack: diana_coman: when you get an opportunity can you gpg me my eulora credentials? | [13:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: my evaluation of the credentials has changed, and I acknowledge that my fuck up is a waste of your time. | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | hello c0ncord | [14:51] |
| diana_coman: | what brings you here? | [14:51] |
| c0ncord: | Hello, guys. | [14:52] |
| c0ncord: | I'd like to work on blockchain things. | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: have you been working on something related? or how /why? | [14:53] |
| c0ncord: | yes, I have | [14:53] |
| c0ncord: | wow, i like that motto "work on what matters, so you matter too" | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: cheers! | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: do you have a blog/site/write somewhere? | [14:55] |
| c0ncord: | i generally hang out on irc, may i OTR you? | [14:55] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: why do you want/need OTR? | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | as you can see, we quite hang out on irc too, lolz. | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | except with logs and all that, quite publicly. | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: how did you find #trilema? | [14:56] |
| c0ncord: | for more privacy, you know, here we're being logged, i generally don't mind but… in order to build trust you need to speak more about yourself and… i feel the need for more privacy | [14:57] |
| c0ncord: | how did i find? well, it was long ago, i don't quite remember, but this time, today, i was looking for a SegWit-free bitcoin implementation | [14:57] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: you are right re trust that it involves indeed to get to know the person, sure; the privacy however doesn't quite link like that but… take your time, there's no hurry :) | [14:57] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: oh, so you've been lurking for a while? or just found it and then went away and now came back again or what is it? | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | you know, I'm asking you this stuff exactly to get to know you as otherwise nothing will come out of it really; otoh if you don't know me, there's all the logs and my blog and younghands.club and ..you can always ask whatever you need to ask. | [14:59] |
| c0ncord: | no lurking, only knew about the project some time ago, "the real bitcoin", thought it was kinda cool | [14:59] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017330 – cool. welcome c0ncord. | [15:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 14:57:57 c0ncord: how did i find? well, it was long ago, i don't quite remember, but this time, today, i was looking for a SegWit-free bitcoin implementation | [15:00] |
| c0ncord: | thanks, man | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: do you know what the WoT is/ | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [15:00] |
| c0ncord: | yes | [15:00] |
| c0ncord: | web of trust | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: so why not register a key with deedbot then? | [15:01] |
| c0ncord: | yeah, why not | [15:01] |
| c0ncord: | i like learning new stuff every day | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: specifically re what the WoT is | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: plenty to learn around here. | [15:02] |
| c0ncord: | thanks, i'm reading | [15:02] |
| c0ncord: | :) | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | take your time, there's no rush | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Feb-2020#1017222 | [15:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-04 15:25:08 diana_coman: dorion: is this silence-since-Sunday the busy-silence or the stuck-silence? | [15:03] |
| dorion: | c0ncord I lurked for quite a while too. | [15:04] |
| c0ncord: | > "you know, I'm asking you this stuff exactly to get to know you as otherwise nothing will come out of it really; otoh if you don't know | [15:04] |
| c0ncord: | me, there's all the logs and my blog and younghands.club and ..you can always ask whatever you need to ask. | [15:04] |
| c0ncord: | " | [15:04] |
| c0ncord: | yes, i've been reading your blog today | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | o.O ALL of it? | [15:05] |
| c0ncord: | haha, impossible | [15:05] |
| c0ncord: | let's say I'm impressed by your intellect | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | well, I'll admit I haven't written all that much or even as much as would have been best but…yeah, still. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: let's say then thank you. | [15:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman busy silence, but that includes the busy getting unstuck silence, i.e. I've been reflecting on the my habits via the hand written journal and that has included researching and practicing some new techniques. | [15:07] |
| dorion: | diana_coman working on unpacking the luggage, so to speak. | [15:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 16:08:21 diana_coman: dorion: luggage in the sense of unexamined habits/practices | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sounds good; what's your plan re the due draft of that tmsr os page, do you want feedback on it (and if yes, when)? | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: where in the world are you? | [15:11] |
| c0ncord: | sorry for the noobiness, what is TMSR? | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | the most serene republic; #trilema is its forum | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | it's a deep rabbit hole you found, heh, take it easy | [15:11] |
| c0ncord: | a rock band? | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah | [15:11] |
| whaack: | lmao | [15:12] |
| c0ncord: | google lies to me? how it comes? | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: for the short explanation, you might want to read the thread starting for instance here (maybe the whole day there could be of interest to you, dunno) | [15:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 16:43:15 diana_coman: jfw: as to the republic as a whole, the fundamental aspect I'd say is the fact that it's a republic of men (ie individual agents, active and self-directed entities) | [15:14] |
| whaack: | c0ncord: i've been practicing the guitar, jfw played the violin, and diana_coman the piano, but so far no albums yet | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw also said he played the piano; and dorion promissed a harmonica piece so yeah, could qualify for some band too, why not | [15:15] |
| c0ncord: | lol | [15:15] |
| c0ncord: | by the way, what is V? some sort of git alternative? are you guys crazy? | [15:15] |
| dorion: | finally, recorded the harmonica piece, ode to joy, last night. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: now if I say "I'm not crazy" – would you believe me? | [15:17] |
| c0ncord: | Diana how it comes only today I learned about your existance? I heard about TMSR before (didn't know what it is, but heard the name at least), and of course read things about Mircea, but never about you. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: as to V, follow the link from my latest article to the overview | [15:17] |
| c0ncord: | or the rest of you, guys. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: well, I'm …more invisible than Mircea for sure. | [15:18] |
| c0ncord: | I feel like I'm stepping in an old abandoned church were a secret society is holding a meeting or something. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: other than that, how do I know why *you* didn't hear of me? because you didn't look in the right place? lolz | [15:19] |
| c0ncord: | I always look at the right place: google. And google told me you don't exist. | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah, it's publicly logged, what secret society? | [15:19] |
| whaack: | aha | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: tsk; who could have imagined! | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: where did you hear of tmsr before? | [15:21] |
| c0ncord: | I'm almost sure it was while reading about Mircea. | [15:21] |
| c0ncord: | but didn't understand what it was (still attempting) | [15:21] |
| dorion: | c0ncord Do you know what "personalized google searches" are ? | [15:21] |
| whaack: | c0ncord: also re google http://ztkfg.com/2018/11/google-shows-you-what-you-want-to-see/ | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: proper understanding takes some time; and a lot of effort on occasion, lol. | [15:22] |
| c0ncord: | i use duckduckgo on a hardened firefox profile behind few proxies and 3 vpn's | [15:22] |
| c0ncord: | which i cycle from time to time, of course | [15:23] |
| c0ncord: | duckduckgo sucks, i know | [15:23] |
| c0ncord: | i said "google" just kidding | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: what did you read about Mircea? | [15:23] |
| c0ncord: | whaack: i'm aware, yeah | [15:23] |
| c0ncord: | diana_coman: that he was some kind of degenerate developer or something | [15:24] |
| c0ncord: | didn't pay much attention really | [15:24] |
| whaack: | dorion: sorry about not including you in the potential band, i am not denying the importance of the harmonica | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: what's a "degenerate developer"? | [15:24] |
| c0ncord: | lol, i don't remember, my memory sucks | [15:24] |
| c0ncord: | but i didn't believe it | [15:24] |
| c0ncord: | politics in the crypto space is nauseating | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: well, if you don't remember what it is, how do you know you don't believe it? lolz | [15:25] |
| c0ncord: | i remember not believing in the source, like it was some kind of politics drama or something | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: politics is fine; shit and vomit trying to pass for politics are nauseating, sure, obviously. | [15:25] |
| c0ncord: | true | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | ah, choose thy sources properly or you'll barf; certainly! | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why on earth did you never ever write that install script similar to the build script for gales? now I found out everything I never wanted to know about required kernel flags for using that initramfs of yours! | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: what do you do for a living if you don't mind me asking? | [15:27] |
| c0ncord: | developer | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: so what sort of things do you develop | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: btw, if you need help with registering a key with deedbot, there's this handy guide | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | and otherwise… ask in here if you get stuck. | [15:32] |
| c0ncord: | well, I'm trying to make things that help Humanity break free from centralized manipulation and authoritarianism | [15:33] |
| c0ncord: | thanks, gonna register soon | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: hm, mind getting Humanity come by and say hi? I'd like to meet it. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | the overview of V, to keep your reading list full. | [15:35] |
| c0ncord: | sorry, i meant Humankind, our species | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: that too! or what, now that centralized manipulation and authoritarianism are brought by aliens or how do you even imagine it? | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: are you/have you been working alone? | [15:36] |
| c0ncord: | yes | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | hopefully you had enough of that by now then! you know, man-alone is already a term of art around here (and it's not great for the …man-alone). | [15:39] |
| c0ncord: | i have some projects in mind, i'm trying to work on them, but it's hard, very hard alone | [15:40] |
| c0ncord: | in a way, yes, it's been enough, it's been tough | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: and it's self-defeating and unnecessary and unsanitary and …do you need me to go on? | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: how old are you, if it's not a secret? | [15:44] |
| c0ncord: | i prefer to remain anonymous | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: why? | [15:44] |
| c0ncord: | i value anonymity a lot, the how i came to this point… it's a long story, that i enjoy discussing, but not in public, because… anonymity XD | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: ain't that circularity a bit… biting your own tail there, don't you think? | [15:49] |
| c0ncord: | yes, it's recursive, and it's tough | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that hm, what did you do that terribly important that anyone cares to find out all that much about you anyway? and if they do…what? | [15:49] |
| c0ncord: | ah, i would love to respond to that question… otr (i know i sound like a jerk, sorry for that) | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: do you realise you are asking me to keep you secrets ? | [15:50] |
| c0ncord: | yes | [15:51] |
| c0ncord: | i trust you | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: that is fine and dandy re trust but keeping someone else's secrets has its costs and …why would I pay that for a "you" that I don't know? | [15:51] |
| c0ncord: | cost not very high, i promise | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: you can't promise on *my* costs, you know? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: but walk me through this contradiction here: you say it's important that you don't say it in public but at the same time the cost to keep it private is…"not very high"? | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | how can that be? | [15:53] |
| c0ncord: | in any case, if you spill the beans, i'm the only affected, no consequences for you, my confessor | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | if it is indeed important, then the cost is high; if the cost is low then it's not important. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: that's unrelated to the cost of *keeping a secret* though. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | that's related to the consequences of *not* keeping it, lol. | [15:54] |
| c0ncord: | oh, i see what you mean | [15:54] |
| c0ncord: | i never felt a weight in keeping others' secrets, if i feel the need to tell someone i just change the name or say "someone" | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | ahahahha | [15:55] |
| c0ncord: | :D | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, not "feeling a weight" has to do with not really keeping, certainly. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | around here words mean something though and apparently quite a lot more than outsiders imagine. | [15:56] |
| c0ncord: | i see | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: for that matter, do you imagine a pm on irc is "kept a secret"? | [15:57] |
| c0ncord: | oh, only via OTR plugin | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | which does what? | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | (I had no idea there's a plugin for that, jeez) | [15:58] |
| c0ncord: | https://otr.cypherpunks.ca/ | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | reluctantly goes to read | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | and https too ffs | [15:59] |
| c0ncord: | i noticed that you guys don't use https, why is that? | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: see this thread as the question has been asked before | [16:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-07-25 17:51:00 diana_coman: back to the "protect the client" (note that there is still the assumption that https actually delivers on what is says though this is not true) – 1. what/how are you exactly protecting them? 2. why? 3. why would you even want to be read by someone who expects *you* to "protect" them without even knowing you, just like that because …what? | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, win32 installer | [16:02] |
| c0ncord: | oh, yeah, i see what you mean | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: you know, wtf do you need a plugin instead of just sending an encrypted (and signed if you want, sure) message? | [16:03] |
| c0ncord: | like, the certificate authorities can intercept the traffic and read | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | people around here send those all the time, here, have a look how it goes, all those paste links were encrypted communciations: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/eulora/2020-02-04 | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: not even *just* that; read the full thread there really, you won't get very far with just "the gist of it" or something | [16:04] |
| c0ncord: | i like otr because it offers perfect forward secrecy and deniability | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: was that pre-recorded? lolz | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | "if you lose control of your private keys" – good god. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | and seriously, *why* would you want to deny you said what you said? to basically make sure you end up with all the disadvantages possible and none of the advantages? | [16:08] |
| c0ncord: | that feature doesn't matter much really, it's just being able to say "i didn't say that" in a provable way | [16:09] |
| c0ncord: | or more precisely "you can't prove i said that" | [16:10] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017416 – all I can say is, other priorities intervened, or more like other fires to put out; and since it was working fine for me it didn't become a fire in my mind (or dorion's afaik) | [16:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 15:27:30 diana_coman: jfw: why on earth did you never ever write that install script similar to the build script for gales? now I found out everything I never wanted to know about required kernel flags for using that initramfs of yours! | [16:10] |
| jfw: | but, is this the diana_coman I know – complaining about having to learn things about how her system works? :) | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lolz, you don't really know how complaints actually sound, do you? | [16:11] |
| jfw: | I suppose I have an idea how worse ones sound; what word would you use then? | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: you know, if you end up in the sort of situation where you need to say that, you are already screwed and no amount of your saying that will save you. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: mild rant at poor documentation :D | [16:14] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: aight, and the prod is appreciated too. | [16:15] |
| jfw: | any kernel flags in particular? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | it's in the …write-up queue, hm. | [16:16] |
| c0ncord: | yeah, i agree, that's the least important of its features, i think | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: yeah, it has way more important anti-features indeed :D | [16:16] |
| c0ncord: | don't you like perfect-forward secrecy? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: config_kernel_xz config_rd_xz config_dec_xz | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: I don't see any reason to like it, no. | [16:17] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: gotcha. I like xz, perhaps in the way c0ncord likes his otr: not having looked inside. Substantially higher compression ratio than the classic lz77 in many cases. But ultimately I can't justify having multiple compression algos when not even one is V-signed. As was pointed out too | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-14 mp_en_viaje: xz AND zlib lol ok, this discussio ncan continue later. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha. | [16:23] |
| jfw: | heh, the other point of course is that when your sources are so big that fiddling with compression yields substantial savings, you have way bigger problems and shouldn't be fiddling with the compression. | [16:35] |
| jfw: | (going not just for me but the rather numerous projects that've adopted tar.xz distribution these days) | [16:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | c0ncord: Experience suggests that the massive PR support encryption "for anonymity" and "deniability" enjoys in the mainstream isn't really that different from the marketing push towards "Segwit" | [16:39] |
| c0ncord: | how to remove the key i just registered on deedbot? | [16:48] |
| jfw: | c0ncord: my own foray into blogging and throwing off the shackles of the hallucinated option of private life (aka manaloning) begins at http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/hello-world/ . I'm presently working on what you might call "blockchain development" among other things | [16:49] |
| c0ncord: | gonna check it out, jfw, thanks | [16:49] |
| c0ncord: | <deedbot> 908173E641EE2B13D203BB9C46A3F4A6D19F6866 is already registered as c0ncord. | [16:50] |
| c0ncord: | :( | [16:50] |
| jfw: | c0ncord: something wrong with that key or why do you want to change? | [16:51] |
| c0ncord: | it was a mistake, i didn't want a 3072 bits key | [16:51] |
| c0ncord: | i thought default was 4096 | [16:52] |
| jfw: | c0ncord, since you just now registered it might be doable, though in general such things are frowned on – another putting incentives in the right place thing. | [16:54] |
| jfw: | your best bet would be to join #trinque and ask trinque nicely | [16:54] |
| jfw: | if you're attached to the name | [16:54] |
| jfw: | (he operates deedbot) | [16:55] |
| c0ncord: | i will just join with another name later, don't worry | [16:57] |
| whaack: | c0ncord: nice, you'll be able to deny everything you've already said :p | [16:57] |
| c0ncord: | jfw, thanks a lot, and interesting af blog, reading it rn | [16:58] |
| jfw: | yw. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017501 – that 2nd thought jfw that I love. | [17:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 16:35:13 jfw: heh, the other point of course is that when your sources are so big that fiddling with compression yields substantial savings, you have way bigger problems and shouldn't be fiddling with the compression. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: btw, for your thorough information on what is tmsr | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | c0ncord: so you'll get in with a different nick and…start all over? | [17:02] |
| dorion: | c0ncord you can use the key you registered to rate your new nick if you wanna go the new nick/key route. | [17:06] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017365 – Friday is feasible for the draft. I will want feedback, but it's not a big rush. people are working through backlogs already and trinque has a specification planned as part 5 of his series. | [17:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 15:09:59 diana_coman: dorion: sounds good; what's your plan re the due draft of that tmsr os page, do you want feedback on it (and if yes, when)? | [17:12] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017406 – thanks, but I didn't take offense, esp given that I've not provided much cause for you to remember, yet. | [17:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 15:24:29 whaack: dorion: sorry about not including you in the potential band, i am not denying the importance of the harmonica | [17:13] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Feb-2020#1017503 – this is a good point. | [17:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-05 16:39:07 BingoBoingo: c0ncord: Experience suggests that the massive PR support encryption "for anonymity" and "deniability" enjoys in the mainstream isn't really that different from the marketing push towards "Segwit" | [17:14] |
| d41r: | https://vim.cx/?cb714f8f99a9e93d#6sBoiPwPGnFPNQ5gRKJqv5TsxX9Dp7MCuHyNEKWXLzJ7 | [18:53] |
| dorion: | c0ncord/d41r wut is that link ? | [19:21] |
| d41r: | it's a javascript thing, your browser wouldn't understand | [19:24] |
| dorion: | d41r why did you link it then ? | [21:50] |
| d41r: | to see who asks what it is | [21:55] |
| whaack: | d41r: being “clever†is dangerous around here. why not try and really think about the answer to the question:_why_ did you link it? do you think that tool has some actual utility? were you curious to see the people in this channel’s evaluation of the tool? were you just trying to get a reaction? | [22:41] |
| whaack: | jfw and dorion: i'm booking flights to Panama for April 2nd – April 9th, i hope you two around around then :) | [23:36] |
#ossasepia Logs for 04 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did my daily writing (which went a bit overtime), 2h of setting up comp, and then 6h of saltmines. The 2h of setting up comp was well spent, I continued my study of the commands jfw had mentioned. After I gained some more knowledge it was easy to diagnose and fix my problem – my comp is now connected. | [02:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-24 16:36:30 jfw: whaack: I suspect you've got some basics to learn here too. ifconfig and route commands, DHCP | [02:33] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I've published notes in leau of a summary article today. Would you rather I finish that tomorrow or move on? | [02:38] |
| jfw: | The following log days were shorter so on the first pass reading side I'm all caught up. | [02:40] |
| jfw: | whaack: nice to hear, did you figure out if it was realtak driver problem or what? | [02:42] |
| jfw: | will be back on the morrow. | [02:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what was the problem anyway? | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Feb-2020#1017152 – jfw, up to you really; fwiw notes were funny to read so I won't complain either way, not like they are not clear for me or anything of the sort, lol. | [04:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-04 02:38:48 jfw: diana_coman: I've published notes in leau of a summary article today. Would you rather I finish that tomorrow or move on? | [04:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The first problem is that the standard NIC by all appearances cannot send packets. I solved this by using a spare ethernet<->usb adapter. Then once I was using "eth1' instead of 'eth0' I could not connect because my routes table did not have the 'default' set to my router's ip address. | [09:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Now that I have a connection I'll download gcc and compile the other driver for my network card and see if I can connect without using the ethernet<->usb adapter. If not then likely there is a problem with the hardware. | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, your "I solved this" is "I worked around that", did you even notice? | [09:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol I missed that I used that wording just now. | [10:00] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, not a distinction to which you are used to pay much attention, that's why; that's why I highlighted it too, because you should pay attention to it specifically and to this sort of differences more generally: it can be fine to choose a workaround instead of a solution in some cases but it's *never* fine to call things something other than they actually are. | [10:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: understood. I know it is a workaround but the language I employed shows that on some level I see 'workarounds' and 'solutions' as interchangeable. I'll take care to make the distinction. | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [10:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the real funny bit is i originally typed "I know it is a temporary solution but the…" | [11:02] |
| whaack: | (atm it looks like it's going to be a permanent work around) | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | there is no such thing as a "temporary solution" and it's still not a solution | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, the curse of "temporary" is that it ~always ends up permanent | [11:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: do you have a specific type of article you'd like me to write for The Odyssey? | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, what do you *want* to write now you read it? | [12:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the first topic that comes to mind is something to do with the ethics of honesty, which would discuss how Odysseus occasionally makes up these long elaborate lies. Sometimes his deceitfulness seems prudent (i.e. when he's trying to keep his disguise while setting up his slaughter of the suitors)..sometimes it seems he's lying for sport (when he reunites with his father at first he pretends to be someone else for no rea | [13:00] |
| whaack: | son clear to me) | [13:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha, if you do a full blown analysis of deceitfulness @ Greeks, that would be quite something, lol | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | can do a phd thesis out of the topic, I dare say (though yes, obv, not based on the odyssey alone, how could that ever be) | [13:02] |
| whaack: | lol, well I don't kid myself that I can do a great job on the topic, especially with a 3hr writing limit. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so pick something that fits the time better or otherwise work on it more | [13:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: btw, the first eulora dependency from the fedora install guide, boost-jam, was not available | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how about choose your favourite event/chapter/part and review that – summarise what's going on, how it's built/told and why it matters | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | link it to anything relevant you know otherwise | [13:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, centos 6 has an older thing though that works; look for jam or ftjam , there is some package containing on or the other, can't recall now without the notes | [13:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright | [13:07] |
| whaack: | the weird thing though is i downloaded the rpm for bootjam and ran "cat boost-jam-1.55.0-25.el6.x86_64.rpm" (dont ask why) and my terminal turned into hieroglyphics, i had to restart my comp | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah | [13:08] |
| whaack: | i don't understand why displaying characters to stdout would then change the symbols for characters permanently | [13:09] |
| jfw: | hehe, whaack learns about in-band signalling and state machines | [13:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you try simply a "reset" cmd first? | [13:09] |
| diana_coman: | before restarting computer, try some simpler measures, you know? | [13:09] |
| whaack: | let me reproduce the bug and try | [13:10] |
| whaack: | yes reset does the job | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, you'll get that sort of thing ~any time you display non-ascii | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you are an optimist after all! | [13:11] |
| jfw: | whaack: https://vt100.net/docs/vt100-ug/chapter3.html#SCS is what typically causes the hieroglyphs (box-drawing character set really, https://vt100.net/docs/vt100-ug/table3-9.html ), though there are other weird things that can happen too, of which 'reset' can fix most | [13:13] |
| whaack: | jfw: thanks i'll give the two a read | [13:14] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what can I say, it worked last time just with some delay :D | [13:14] |
| jfw: | whaack: my go-to for displaying might-be-binary files is 'less', as it escapes terminal control characters by default | [13:16] |
| jfw: | of course to actually inspect a binary there's hexdump or xxd | [13:17] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Feb-2020#1017157 – thanks; thinking I'll go for finishing it | [13:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-04 04:20:04 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Feb-2020#1017152 – jfw, up to you really; fwiw notes were funny to read so I won't complain either way, not like they are not clear for me or anything of the sort, lol. | [13:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: links to get cal3 http://minigame.biz/eulora/source/cal3d.tar.gz and http://minigame.biz/eulora/binaries/cal3d.tar.gz are dead atm | [13:52] |
| whaack: | Cal3D * | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, use my blog | [13:53] |
| diana_coman: | minigame's website was not resurrected after pizarro's implosion. | [13:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ty | [13:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I guess update the wiki too, what can it hurt. | [13:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was about to say I'm on it | [13:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Please let me know if you would like the domain DNS pointed somewhere else. Right now it's all pointed at the Eulora logs. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: thanks; so far there was simply no decision to bring the website back up; will let you know if anything changes on this. | [13:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Ok, thank you. | [13:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: wow, i learned i have an account on the wiki page from a while back | [14:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: should I have to be root to run "autoreconf –install –force" ? | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, should not require root; why? | [15:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I got the error "Can't exec "aclocal": Permission denied at /usr/share/autoconf/Autom4te/FileUtils.pm line 326. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | I guess you'd end up needing that only if you are trying to install it somewhere where you don't have permissions | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | it's the first time I see/hear of such a thing; do you have some incompatible versions of autotools? | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | that's usually where the weird stems from on autoreconf and the like. | [15:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had to run | [15:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i admit i skipped the step and kept going without trouble. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | cal3d is quite undemanding, yes | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: is this silence-since-Sunday the busy-silence or the stuck-silence? | [15:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: now at the "./autogen.sh" step I get "configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro: _AC_CC | [15:31] |
| whaack: | "If this token and others are legitimate, please use m4_pattern_allow. See the autoconf documentation. Autogen failed" | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, I didn't run into that either; it really sounds like you are missing something/have mismatched versions | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you install libtool ? | [15:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no I don't think so. | [15:37] |
| jfw: | whaack: does 'aclocal' work manually from shell? might need to be installed separately. | [15:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: I don't have the aclocal command | [15:40] |
| jfw: | the 'autotools' come in a couple related but not always used packages: autoconf, automake, libtool mainly. Looks like aclocal is part of automake. | [15:40] |
| whaack: | I got aclocal from doing yum install libtool. but I still get the same error. | [15:42] |
| jfw: | whaack: which same error, did you circle back to the autoreconf ? | [15:42] |
| whaack: | jfw: no i had not, and i just did now, and that fixed the original autoreconf problem, i'll continue and redo the other steps. | [15:43] |
| jfw: | imports those vt100 / vt102 user guides to the fixpoint library, as the Paul Williams fella already broke his site by forcing https | [15:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I got a few errors on the step. Here is the [paste.deedbot.org/?id=2aRJ] and [paste.deedbot.org/?id=S9ec][here] is the missing optional dependencies from cs. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: cal3d lists as "optional" pretty much everything because the original author was so afraid to decide on anything at all that he ended up with this situation where rendering stuff (and similar) is somehow optional for a graphics engine, among other lulz. | [15:55] |
| whaack: | kek | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, the walktest thing has to work if you are to have any use for cs really because that's the basic test of graphics pretty much | [15:56] |
| whaack: | i recall the wonderful feeling of walking around that dungeon the first time i installed eulora | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: zlib is a must iirc; and you'll probably need zlib-devel package | [15:58] |
| jfw: | whaack: don't you think you might want to get x11 working first before getting to things a couple layes of deps above that? | [15:59] |
| whaack: | jfw: I do have x11 working | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | and uhm, x11 missing? | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [15:59] |
| whaack: | idk why it says i don't | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: something is missing, so it's not finding it | [15:59] |
| jfw: | ah ok, then probably just missing the -devel packages (headers mainly). | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | probably like for zlib above, you don't have the devel packages | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | heh, as jfw says | [16:00] |
| whaack: | so do i just do a yum install and slap -devel onto all those missing things? | [16:00] |
| jfw: | redhat does this thing where "we'll save you 10kb of header files because why would you want to compile anything rather than eat binaries?" | [16:00] |
| whaack: | (just did that for zlib) | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: didn't you look at the list of deps for fedora and other systems? because the package names might be different but the deps are still deps | [16:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, is there a list of deps for eulora posted somewhere or should i search online for a list of deps for cs? | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, those on the wiki# | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | and don't waste time searching online re deps for cs, lolz, that's really not going to do anything other than waste time. | [16:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The wiki doesn't have an explicit list of deps | [16:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I tried to find an equiv for every package that didn't have the same name as the one in fedora's repo | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I'll have to write-up my notes at some point then. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | jam I had to search for in the wild, and my machine has been hard at work since i got zlib-devel | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: since my list of to-write is long and only getting longer and otherwise on centos I just ported the darned client to gnat anyway, here's a raw paste of notes with packages for corresponding CS stuff, from when I was simply mapping what fits what (ie see what is really needed, perhaps not all of them are): http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=KogY | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: looking at it now, I can even tell that bullet is not needed and otherwise it even tends to create trouble so leave it out | [16:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thx | [16:46] |
| whaack: | currently stuck with Cg. I installed from nvidia but thought about using the rpmfusion repo | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | see possibly the note that it needs the libgl-devel thing too | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | if you look in the configure script, you'll see exactly what/how it checks anyway; it's a long thing but relatively straightforwardly written, as those things go. | [16:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I installed cg, I am pretty sure, but all i can find is an executable /usr/bin/cgc — i need to look for a folder though, correct? | [16:51] |
| whaack: | (to put as the destination of the ./configure –with-Cg="" –with-CgGL="") | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so it's missing the headers; the -devel package etc | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [16:52] |
| jfw: | whaack: assuming you still have it installed from nvidia rather than rpmfusion you probably do have all the headers and just don't know where to look, and the configure argument wouldn't be necessary | [17:19] |
| jfw: | (I haven't used Cg though so just guessing.) | [17:20] |
| whaack: | jfw: I solved? worked around? the problem by downloading the tarball from nvidia, extracting it to /opt/nvidia-cg-toolkit, and setting the config arguments accordingly | [17:22] |
| jfw: | cool, sounds like a solution to me as I don't see any benefit in adding a new intermediary just to install what's surely a pile of blobs anyway | [17:25] |
| jfw: | given that it's apparently self-contained in a subdir like that | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a solution, well done! | [17:54] |
| whaack: | thanks, i got the walk test running! | [18:13] |
| whaack: | one thing that tripped me up was while installing i started my x11 as root, and was su'd into my non-root user | [18:15] |
| whaack: | i was not able to start x11 (and thus the walktest) from the terminal running as the non-root user | [18:16] |
| jfw: | whaack: "not able" how? | [18:17] |
| whaack: | (also, back to the same bug with ./autogen.sh "configure:3522: error: possibly undefined macro: _AC_CC) | [18:19] |
| whaack: | jfw: I logged into a tty as root. Then I ran startx. Then, while in the graphical environment, i opened up a terminal. I ran su whaack (my nonroot user) and then ran the walktest. It gave me an error akin to 'X11 failed to start' | [18:22] |
| whaack: | I fixed this by running startx as 'whaack' | [18:22] |
| jfw: | uh, I thought you specifically said you couldn't start X as non-root user | [18:23] |
| jfw: | and yeah, it's not the greatest practice to start an X session as root, gives all the GUI stuff more privilege than it ought to have | [18:25] |
| jfw: | the X server process does need to be root but that's distinct from the clients and should be handled by startx and the setuid bit | [18:26] |
| whaack: | jfw: right, that was not clear. I was not able to start x11 while su'd into a non-root user in a terminal that was started in an x environment that i started as root. (quite a mouthful, and i'm sorry if I am using some of the x11 terms incorrectly) | [18:27] |
| jfw: | so you wanted to start an x11 inside the x11? lol | [18:27] |
| jfw: | technically what you were trying might be possible by setting the DISPLAY variable to match it was in the root shell. That doesn't mean starting a new X server, but telling the clients how to connect to the existing one. But yeah, best to start as whaack to begin with. | [18:28] |
| jfw: | **match what it was | [18:28] |
| jfw: | I'm celebrating the minor mental victory of getting back into the wallet code and specifically the godawful signing algorithm I hadn't touched since '17. | [23:15] |
| jfw: | Already grabbed the lower hanging fruits so quite possible that's why I wasn't feeling so motivated for picking it back up. | [23:17] |
#ossasepia Logs for 03 Feb 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/03/jfw-plan-week-of-feb-3-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Feb 3 2020 | [02:19] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/03/jfw-review-week-of-jan-27-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Jan 27 2020 | [02:31] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1017016 – it is indeed so I can see your point and yeah, if aiming for this, some remote controls would make more sense; my point was not at all that you should rely on "one should not" but that it's not really on the bot's operator to protect users against themselves and especially not if the available solution swings it to the other side ie "can't kick bot out, need to ban it … | [04:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 22:26:54 trinque: but at any rate, connected and not in chan is a useless state, so I prevented it | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | … entirely to even keep it out" | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, on one hand a car by itself won't solve *all* the problems, not even all of those related to santa cruz & co; and otoh, if you keep trying to sort this out by ignoring complexity, you'll only make for yourself even more – and more difficult – things to sort out. | [04:06] |
| diana_coman: | serban85 ai si tu putintica rabdare stimabile. | [08:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: of course a car in itself will not solve all the problems, I only see it as a step in the right direction. Getting a car has little to do with the santa cruz issue, and more to do with being able to get out in the evenings. Atm I'm having my cab driver friend look for a car for me. | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen, why don't you do this properly and thoroughly instead of delegating it on blind faith so that you further end up having to handle the friend-part where it doesn't belong | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | sure, ask the guy if he knows of any good cars, fine; but don't ask him to look for a car for you, he's not your daddy, wtf | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | *you* get off your ass and figure out all the options around, figure out what you want and especially what you do NOT want | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | try out several cars via rentals; look at all the rest with a cool head and unhurried mind | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for that matter, was it a 1 year lease you got there on that flat? | [11:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yeah it's a 1 year lease | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | are you happy with that remote location/is the being-on-the-beach more important than being in a town or what | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | because do realise also that going out in the evening by car is fine but then not exactly much party if you need to drive afterwards too and so on. | [11:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There are parts of it I absolutely love, but yes I miss the socialization that i've always had from either living in a big city or a popular town. | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | there will always be some tradeoff, obviously; the question is which part is more important to you and especially more fitting to what you are aiming for really. | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | because I can see the appeal of living on the beach, sure, but it's pretty much holiday/retirement mode unless you have otherwise all the resources to basically make your own anything right at home, wherever that might be | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | or by the sounds of it, you are nowhere near that, not even having a clear idea as to what that might be really (and yeah, not expected or anything either, there's plenty of time for that later on) | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | admittedly CR is all of it holiday land for that matter but anyways. | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | if beach & surf is important, make sure they are within reasonable reach, sure; but is that the most important/the goal really? | [11:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for the cab driver friend looking for cars, he is currently helping someone else buy a car (and he goes to San Jose to see more options) so I asked him to let me know of any good options he sees. Buying a car is a time consuming task so I thought it may be best to have someone I trust who knows more about the process doing the leg work (and I would pay him for the effort, not sure what a good amount would be yet) | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes; question is: what's your trust based on? to what extent and why do you trust him on this? | [11:29] |
| diana_coman: | yes, buying a car (and also maintaining afterwards a car) IS a time consuming task; and for that matter, having a car is a liability too, not an asset; what this means though is that you need to make sure it's worth it. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The trust is based on having many repeated relations with the guy, we talk for long car rides every week, have been to each other's birthday parties, etc. I asked him how he bought his car. He said he made 2-3 trips to San Jose, checking them all out, first sign of any problem he bails, until he eventually finds one. Then he talked about the process of finding a lawyer, how since he pays in cash it is very possible to | [11:32] |
| whaack: | be robbed (at gun point!) in San Jose, and also how there are many fake lawyer shops – so you have to go to a 'buffet' a place with lots of lawyers and then agree to one there. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | that robbing at gun point in San Jose sounds rather hard to believe to be honest. | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | so why not go with him instead of passing it on to him | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | ask to go with him, you get to see some interesting things and learn something too, if it's oh-so-dangerous | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention better than any other socializing of the boring sort | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | if he really knows what he's doing, there's your opportunity to learn too, why pass it on anyway | [11:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: He did not say that he had it happen, but that he considers it and always meets in a public place. He insisted himself that I go with him to San Jose to try out the cars myself. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, but go with him and look at cars, ask him to explain to you what he's looking at and why and so on | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | this is not to say to not pay him otherwise, sure, pay him | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | but learn too, that's the main gain there, if indeed there's something to learn. | [11:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: diana_coman seems to have the right idea with trying a handful of shorter term rentals. Since you haven't driven much it's the only real way to see what you like and what will annoy the hell out of you in a car fast. | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | you get to learn and socialise, what salsa and jiu-jitsu classes bah | [11:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol well yeah but as much as I like my cab driver friend that is the one person I speak with on a regular basis and I'm trying to branch out here.. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, well, better -as in more useful- branches though; talking to those lawyers, fake lawyers and so on is still better than talking to organised classes people, ugh. | [11:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: How many people do you estimate live in your neighborhood? | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that depends on his definition of people :D | [11:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: AHA | [11:41] |
| whaack: | waves at billymg | [11:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or, an estimate of featherless bipeds with flat nails could be informative as well. | [11:42] |
| whaack: | I believe on the order of 500. There are a few large families that make up the town. Pretty much everyone is the primo/a of someone I know. | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | question is how many of those you'd really *want* to know, if it weren't for the accident of them being in the vicinity, eh. | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | tries to keep the ruralia-sudden-barf in check. | [11:45] |
| whaack: | the number is low to zero. | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | kind of sucks. | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | possibly travel_billy has the masterplan of bringing in some life worth knowing to that place, maybe better off talking to him and see if he needs help with it or something, if at that; meanwhile though, the visits to san jose and learning what your cab driver friend supposedly knows sounds like the only actual opportunity for anything useful. | [11:49] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Regarding lots of short term rentals, that seems smart but another expensive and time consuming task. I could see myself gathering a list of cars I like and then going to Tamarindo (40 mins out) renting a car i'm considering buying for a week, and doing that 4x, which will run me close to 000 + 5 round trips | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | such is ruralia where there's nothing: everything is suddenly expensive, time consuming and overall not worth it. | [11:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Four times sounds like a solid number of times, but a week per car sounds long. Maybe try a day or two. Each. Weeklong rental maybe to shakedown an outlier that you like. | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose his next trouble is that then he won't find that particular car to buy second hand or something | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: car rentals in CR don't deliver the car or what? | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, did you even calculate taxi costs for nights out and came to the conclusion that it's actually cheaper to have the trouble of your own car for that or what? | [11:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Actually yes they can/do deliver cars. | [11:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I guess I'm taking it for granted that the rental company inventories would overlap with what other fleet buyers in Costa Rica buy, which… if gringos are renting "sport sedans" could tilt the rental fleet susbtantially out of whack. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: yeah, I'm not so sure they overlap all that much because renting are probably mainly tourists, buying/selling mainly locals so you end up with second hand market mainly tiny-toyotas if what I saw on the roads is any indication. | [11:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I imagine that it would be cheaper to not have a car and only use cabs. But I would like the freedom of having my own car and not having to base my schedule around cab driver availability | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | but I suppose whaack can get a clear idea of what is usually available on the second hand market …if he goes with this friend and sees with his own eyes. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | o.O how is that "cab driver availability"?? | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | wtf now they are somehow…. not available? | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | lmao, the cab service that is not available, how does that work? | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | and in fairness, for all the time I was in CR, I *never* had any trouble ordering or finding a taxi | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | and I don't mean in San Jose where there were plenty just waiting; I do mean out and about wherever really; sure, needed to call and order but they always came within 10 minutes max really, never heard of "not available" | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, if you want the car-toy, sure, fine; you want the toy and that's it; but yeah, be responsible about your toys and use them to learn at least. | [12:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Only once here did I have the 'not available' situation come up. Usually the problem is just having mins of waiting | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | well, compared to the mins of waiting in traffic, the 5-10 minutes that are even *predictable* (ie can PLAN so that *they wait* for you, not the other way around, you know?) don't seem exactly relevant in any way. | [12:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | Minutes of waiting probably unavoidable most places unless, you're located at some sort of hub of activity. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | as to "not available", on one hand have several options so if one not available, next one fine. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | and on the other hand probably once you are regular client, less not available anyway. | [12:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Also, travel_billy and I spoke briefly at dinner about finding / bringing people worth knowing here. Hopefully he can use his bnb to this end. In any case I am more than happy to help out. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: to sum it up though: if you absolutely want a car to call your own, then invest the time to learn wtf you are doing there so go with that friend and learn, don't avoid the opportunity now, what sense does that even make to you; figure out what can be found anyway, what it would cost to maintain, what you will actually do with it supposing you have it and how well/if it really fits the purpose anyway (as a toy it's rather on … | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | … the expensive side but well, your money and your toys after all). | [12:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | If it's a used toy, probably budget to replace the shocks and brakes on all four corners. | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | and the tires; and the battery and … | [12:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right | [12:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | just remembers in the last iteration of this coversation that shock/brake weird on a particualr vehicle was being presented as "normal" | [12:22] |
| diana_coman: | myeah; honestly, I don't follow why would one *want* all that trouble but possibly because whaack happily discards the trouble and imagines it all "just works" | [12:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | My parents always had a broken attitude towards their cars. "they just worked, until they stopped doing so" except, not really. They came up with all sorts of stupid and rituals to work around the fact their cars didn't work like that. | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | Still, I've come to see far weirder "My car just works like this" coping. | [12:34] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, the mystical approach to everything, push the button (or more buttons, until something happens) and it magically "works" (until it doesn't,sure, but then buy another one if it *really* doesn't). | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, a very young me got to help take apart and put back together again one of those Dacia cars and there were several interesting "works" involved for sure (mainly because well, the local/communist/of-the-time industrial process was not all that…precise) | [12:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I admit that I have always seen cars as much more reliable than as they are presented in this channel. It's clear to me though that I am going to have to eat a financial loss to get this new toy. | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the poor cars are made to be reliable; but they are also *mechanisms* and as such require maintenance to remain reliable; and moreover, your approach of "the car is reliable" (by itself, as a given, no need to have any idea really or any bother with it) is exactly what stupid is made out of. | [12:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | There's also a lot of space for maintenance to be done in wrong ways that are far more expensive than the right way. | [12:42] |
| diana_coman: | ^^^^^ | [12:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | The worst I remember was the fascination "Cheapies Used Tires" of Alton, Illinois inspired in the AA crowd back home. One particular trainwreck/snowflake got a 500 dollar car that needed a new shock in one corner (maybe 300 USD). Because the shock was "expensive" she instead bought a 50 USD used tire roughly every week for that corner of the car. Sometime she needed two in a week. Sometimes no one would drive her to the damned used | [12:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | tire shop and she'd go a month without car to her great financial benefit. | [12:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | was simply appalled by the idea of a used tire shop | [12:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Yet the damned used tire shop HAD REGULARS! | [12:47] |
| whaack: | ahahaha | [12:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | "It's cheaper", "They don't nickle and dime you on the labor cost", never mind that in the best case these regulars were spending 200+ USD every six months on tires when a bit more than that opens the door to new tires good for years, plural. | [12:50] |
| travel_billy: | whaack: i can ask some of my meatwot here (tico and expat) about finding a car as well | [12:53] |
| whaack: | travel_billy: ty, please do | [12:53] |
| travel_billy: | i know that the previous owners of the proprety bought their hyundai suv used from a rental agency. and that when i rented a car here a few months back the guy at the rental agency told me about this as well | [12:54] |
| travel_billy: | i know buying from rental agencies has sort of a stigma about it, "the car's been abused by a series of non-owners with no stake in its longevity" | [12:54] |
| travel_billy: | but i don't know how true this actually is (i've always taken good care of rental cars so as not to be on the hook for damages) | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | as opposed to the car being abused by a few idiots with no idea of maintenance | [12:55] |
| travel_billy: | ^ exactly | [12:56] |
| diana_coman: | supposedly the rental agency has actually quite an interest in maintaining the cars properly | [12:56] |
| travel_billy: | yeah, that as well. it needs to be running smooth for the next customer always | [12:57] |
| travel_billy: | so might be another avenue for your search, contact a few agencies and see if they're selling any old stock | [12:57] |
| whaack: | when rushing to catch some waves the phrase "it's a rental, don't be gentle" pops up around here | [12:57] |
| travel_billy: | lol | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | so possibly go to agencies in san jose instead where there's no rush to catch waves, lolz. | [12:58] |
| travel_billy: | i think it will also be like buying any used car, need to do an in-person inspecition, and know what you're looking for (perhaps your friend could help with this) | [12:59] |
| travel_billy: | inspection* | [12:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes that is what the cab friend told me, he goes to SJ because the probability that someone is offloading their problem that came from driving in shit roads is much lower there | [13:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | Depending on the make and model of the car, problems inflicted by driving on shit roads can sometimes simply be unbolted and replaced. Other times not so much on cars that were cheaper new where cost saving measures like a solid rear axel are used in building the car. | [13:03] |
| travel_billy: | i've personally settled on something with body-on-frame construction vs. unibody for this reason | [13:11] |
| whaack: | From my understanding / what cab friend told me agencies charge a markup for being a safer option than buying on the street. He prefers to save the money/gamble by using his ability to judge cars. | [13:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | ^ solid axel isn't necessarily a bad thing if it's sitting on a bunch of leaf springs in the manner used in constructing small trucks. | [13:12] |
| whaack: | (But that is a necessity of having less capital.) | [13:12] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It's also a skill that can be built. Plenty of farmers and mechanics don't like to buy cars that aren't 10+ years old. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | !o uptime | [14:11] |
| ossabot: | diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 0d 0h 7m | [14:11] |
| jfw: | re http://younghands.club/2020/02/03/jfw-review-week-of-jan-27-2020/#comment-348 , dorion is invited to kick me in the ribs, but bearing in mind that intact bones & lungs are important for productivity, and there miiight be a thing or two he owes me too :p | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the question still stands as to what you owe yourself. | [16:26] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I think my top priority needs to be getting the wallet work done, at the very least so as to make good on the promise and make time for whatever the business may need from me next | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, that "needs to be", how much it says, you know? but the question was even wider (or if you prefer, in yesterday's obv re trees – on upper levels of that tree) than the wallet really. | [16:29] |
| jfw: | well some levels up would be needing to make money, and further up: to survive & grow | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: those might be needs of all sorts, sure; none of them necessarily a priority unless you choose it as such; the q at any rate was what is your top priority, as you choose it, that's all. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | but you know, the one you care about, not the one that "needs to be" | [16:33] |
| jfw: | hm. I see how it's necessary to care about something and just saying it's important isn't enough | [16:35] |
| jfw: | I know I'm still not answering the question though, not sure what to say. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: think it through, it's no rush and no need for an answer right now. | [16:38] |
| jfw: | alright | [16:38] |
#ossasepia Logs for 02 Feb 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/02/wh-review-of-week-16-jan-27th-feb-2nd/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 16 (Jan 27th – Feb 2nd) | [01:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my article w/ the ircbot reconnection vpatch and wrote my review of the week. I spent the evening getting drinks with my new neighbor billymg | [01:34] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Jan-2020#1016753 – hm, why? I can see the point if you expect this sort of accidental to happen much but otherwise dunno, if one wants the bot in there, one should not kick it "accidentally" and certainly not complain if they have to wait for it to get back if/when they kick it. | [04:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-31 21:38:43 trinque: I didn't want "oops I accidentally kicked the bot" to require human interaction. | [04:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Feb-2020#1016755 – hopefully you remember that next time and go directly for learning what you need, heh. | [04:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-01 00:24:52 whaack: made the mistake of manaloning and attempting solutions that took time and gave me nothing in return. I am now going through a guide on networking, learning the commands jfw mentioned. | [04:41] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Feb-2020#1016782 – epsilon! | [04:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-01 15:38:57 jfw: Seeing as how I'm just starting now, I've got about zero chance of finishing review and plan by my 21:00 UTC deadline. | [04:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016786 – ha! who blogs this first? | [04:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 01:34:17 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my article w/ the ircbot reconnection vpatch and wrote my review of the week. I spent the evening getting drinks with my new neighbor billymg | [04:45] |
| whaack: | trinque: I agree with diana_coman and so in the end decided to remove the rejoin on kick feature altogether | [10:35] |
| whaack: | billymg: do you have handy the css update that removes horizontal scrolling? | [11:59] |
| whaack: | In advice I wish I had listened to earlier there are good prices for long term car rentals. I think I'm going to go to liberia today and rent a car for a month, it'll run me just a little over 00. | [13:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-12 16:28:24 diana_coman: whaack: you can always *rent* a car too, no/ | [13:03] |
| travel_billy: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016793 << it was a good time, whaack's in a gorgeous beachfront location | [13:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 04:45:16 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016786 – ha! who blogs this first? | [13:13] |
| travel_billy: | whaack: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=1TD3 << i don't have an updated patch yet (still waiting to resolve the discussing around open/close tags) but this css should fix the formatting issues | [13:15] |
| travel_billy: | discussion* | [13:15] |
| whaack: | travel_billy: ty | [13:15] |
| whaack: | travel_billy: is the wind howling where you are like it is here? | [13:16] |
| travel_billy: | it is indeed, the trees are swaying nicely | [13:17] |
| dorion: | diana_coman here's the outline I have so far : http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=9sM- | [15:12] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: instead of our standing 7:30 pm UTC meeting I would like to put together an article explaining what's on my mind. It would be an easier medium for me to reference various things and string together my thoughts (plus I can communicate to several parties that I owe stuff to at once) | [15:23] |
| lobbes: | To sum it up though: I'm falling behind with basically everything in my life atm, so I think I need to take that signal as something needs to change. Specifically from the cause of wanting greater control of my life I think I need to pull back a bit and refocus on some basic things first that I've been ignoring. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I need to sort out some irl unexpecteds but I'll be back in half an hour max | [15:23] |
| lobbes: | This is kinda related to your always-very-rational-apparently point I think; I need to get my other leg back online first before I can really be productive | [15:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 14:06:12 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Sep-2019#1002885 – because you were going at it on *one leg only*; in short, you knew what you needed to do but you didn't care to do it and both those things matter, you can't just cut one out and pretend that the other takes over both functions. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: go ahead re article. | [15:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ok | [15:23] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, best and talk soon. | [15:24] |
| lobbes: | will be back in a few; grabbing food / doing some errands then will start article | [15:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | having difficulties reading the string "going to go to liberia" without red flags raising and alarms sounding | [15:33] |
| dorion: | always thinks of the liberia lincoln promoted to maintain segregation. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: back and read your outline; do you know what's the role of scope when you decide to write something? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | fishes out the notes on prev version too, 1 sec | [15:52] |
| dorion: | I'm thinking the role of scope is to prevent tangents from distracting the reader of the point you want them to take away. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the outline you pasted clearly tries to provide some structure but it runs rather unequally in several directions and mainly because you haven't fully decided on either scope or focus. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: only in part and not even the main part; the role of scope is to clearly delineate (hence also help you at writing time choose and the reader at reading time evaluate) what the text covers and what is not covered. | [15:57] |
| dorion: | diana_coman one thought that returned while making this one, which you also noted in previous comments, was to first start with an article focuses on the topic of one's interest. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | if your scope is too wide, you'll end up writing 10 volumes; if it's too narrow, you'll not get to say much interesting to the user (at one extreme I suppose you could see copywriting as an extremely narrow scope thing) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | the "user" is the reader above, ofc; ( /me shakes user loose from head) | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re-reading your 1st article a bit earlier, it struck me that it really reads like you wrote it with some luggage, hm; let me extract this more clearly. | [16:00] |
| dorion: | diana_coman makes sense re scope. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: version 1 of your article sounds at times like a sales pitch (though you switch from one audience to another) | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: btw, what's with the soundbites reliance anyway? | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | is this due to the environment there or is it deliberate/do you realise you do it there or what? | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: say something. | [16:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman soundbites as in the blockquotes to reference ? | [16:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman luggage in the brain load sense ? | [16:06] |
| ossabot: | (eulora) 2020-01-10 mircea_popescu: there;s this important factor nobody seems to realize, about brain load. if you're trying to work while loaded with articles you've not written, you take longer. much like if you try to drive a truck you didn't unload, you'll take longer. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: luggage in the sense of unexamined habits/practices | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | the possible brain load would not show that directly in that it might slow you down, but it doesn't directly change the text. | [16:09] |
| dorion: | diana_coman hm. for sure I expect I have unexamined habits and also habits I'm aware of to a degree that haven't been examined enough for me to replace. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re soundbites, it's a more general thing ie you tend to shorten your text more by importing constructions & terms known *in a certain environment* than by concise focus on some core idea; and when those accumulate also, it all sounds very copywriting style essentially. | [16:12] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I see sales as talking with people to identify problems and help them determine if the problem is big enough for them to be motivated to solve. | [16:12] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that makes sense. instead of doing the work of distilling into my own text, I import what someone else said. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sure; the problem is not sales per se, lol; if anything and after having read that .pdf from the crypto-something, I suspect what creeps in is that environment you have there. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: exactly that, well said. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | now, circling back to those notes of mine building on your version 1 + the previous discussion: 1. what is the full set of points from which you said last time you ended up selected only the top 2? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | 2. you said part of the trouble was that you were trying to figure out some concepts at the same time as using them; did you list what those were and/or did you figure them out properly meanwhile? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: re short & convincing, you can certainly aim for that too, but it will really work best as a 2nd step, *after* a well written article that really drills down into the details | [16:19] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I need a couple minutes to gather the responses. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | in no small part precisely because an article is meant to provide that sort of depth; and in part because your audience is basically more diverse than the usual you-have-5-minutes-to-make-your-pitch or similar. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: take your time; fwiw, there's more too, so prepare yourself, lol. | [16:22] |
| dorion: | diana_coman nice and prepared :) | [16:27] |
| dorion: | re 1 : kernel with trng, de-uefizing modern hardware, Bitcoin (not in the money sense alone) re-institutes a functional hierarchy with steeper peaks – which makes humanities possible. | [16:30] |
| dorion: | re 2. I don't think I have them fully worked out, but they are : a) what makes a functional identity, b) what constitutes one's interests, c) what is meant by EV. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | ah, I see. | [16:34] |
| dorion: | re a) what is an identity generally and what makes one strong in the modern world. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: how do you know/decide when you have something "fully worked out" ? heh | [16:35] |
| dorion: | diana_coman grasping the word by word meaning, which I typically explore the etymology to determine/clarify. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | well, that risks the trouble with not seeing the woods for the trees among other things. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | (which I'm even rather surprised at, coming from you, huh) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, let's roll this back a bit so it gets where we were heading to start with (see, this is scope in action really) | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: in your outline, you qualify "subject" as the starting point; the subject of an article though is not at all "the starting point" but the central topic that you aim to talk about | [16:39] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ah, ok re subject. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | given one topic, you can choose all sorts of starting points really and they are not even all that fixed upfront ie you can re-write even the same thing, just starting from a different point. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | the subject is however something you need to be very clear on upfront because it has to be the focus of everything really | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | so, first of all: what is your chosen subject for this article? | [16:42] |
| dorion: | right now I'm unsure if I should go with one article or a series. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | that is not a concern at this stage | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | don't worry about that just yet, you'll get plenty of time (and enough info) to decide on it later | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | first of all: what is your subject aka central topic | [16:45] |
| dorion: | that contributing to and operating tmsr os is in a given individual's interest. | [16:45] |
| dorion: | I wrote long term at first, but then removed. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: if you aim it like that on a given individual's interest, you get the trouble of… individuals being individuals, heh; how about "the benefits of tmsr-os" as overall topic that can then branch easily into contributing and using it, if need be | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | basically to get clarity (and understanding really), you need to build and maintain trees, that's what it is; if you find yourself running around from one thing to another and lost in details, you need to abstract one level up; if you run out of abstractions/have nothing to say, you need to drill down | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | that long term for instance is exactly an example of lower down in the tree; each of the above branches can further have their own short-term and long-term respectively | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the thing is also: whatever benefits there are, they will stem out of necessity from what tmsr-os is (which in turn means also the wider environment since nothing is in a vacuum, sure); but the individuals come into all this only afterwards and they do not drive the benefits really, regardless of what they'd like to think. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | so that's why your subject as such is tmsr-os with the scope already getting some shape from focusing the discussion on benefits rather than everything else | [16:53] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok on "the benefits of tmsr-os". the point about individuals is that the fiat system is not sustainable, but as I write it occurs that some are dying everyday who've lived off that system and avoided the short term pain of change for long term gain. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you can still bring in that point but notice that is one point aka one leaf in your tree and we're still just clarifying the root, lol | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, need some branches to get there | [16:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, right. and the above makes sense. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | so now, from the benefits of tmsr-os, do you want to focus on contributors only, on users only or branch on this so you have both? | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | (and you see, at each branch, if it ends up too much, you can always decide to make a different article; but that's a decision for when you know "this is such a big branch that it could be its own article) | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | btw, if you are into visual thinking, that's probably where those mindmap things can be useful. | [16:59] |
| dorion: | diana_coman both I think because it seems natural that potential contributors would use prior to contributing. so then establish the use case first, then expand to contributing. | [16:59] |
| dorion: | thanks for the tip, but I always found those mindmap softwares too cumbersome to use. I'll stick with vim. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | well, for that matter you can cut it differently and focus it all instead on the very rationale for the project to start with, having then benefits of users/contributors as consequences of this (and thus getting less space in it) | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | I didn't even mean mindmap software, can be hand-written if it's any use; fwiw no, I never found them useful either but I know people who work better with them so whatever works for one at the end of the day. | [17:02] |
| dorion: | yeah, the rationale is even more to the root. so "why tmsr-os came to be" rather than "the benefits of tmsr-os" | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: exactly. | [17:04] |
| dorion: | diana_coman cool, thanks a lot! | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, you're not done, lol | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | that why tmsr-os came to be needs to be split and scoped too or you'll end up talking of how bitcoin came to be as well | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: does the above exercise give you at least some idea re the process on this sort of thing? | [17:06] |
| dorion: | can see it, rebuckles seatbelt. | [17:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it's a good example, will probably take re-reads and practice to sink in, but let's try in realtime. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so then, from the "why tmsr-os came to be" node, which branches do you see and which ones are you going to follow and why them? | [17:08] |
| dorion: | my first thought is tmsr-os came to be because of V, which came to be because of Bitcoin. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | mmm, V gives the shape, not the rationale though | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: how about those steps: aim first for a minimal tree with the root tmsr-os itself, see what you get on that, include branches on environment as much as you consider relevant | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | not right now, obv, take some time, do that, come with it. | [17:14] |
| dorion: | one branch of the rationale is that point on meaning being established through authority. another, perhaps related, is trust being implicit in the modern computing environment given the sprawl of complexity. | [17:14] |
| jfw: | publishes, has been skimming here on the side, turns attention now to log | [17:15] |
| jfw: | whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016786 – double win! | [17:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 01:34:17 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my article w/ the ircbot reconnection vpatch and wrote my review of the week. I spent the evening getting drinks with my new neighbor billymg | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: welcome to the branching log! | [17:15] |
| dorion: | a summary of a baker's dozen days, look at jfw go! | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I can see it in there but you will need to bridge it in | [17:16] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016791 – I've seen the term around here indeed but yet uncertain of the meaning. Is it "almost but not quite zero" deriving from the delta/epsilon definition of the limit? | [17:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 04:44:40 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-01-Feb-2020#1016782 – epsilon! | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you still fresh enough to go through a closer highlight of the jumps and troubles in your version 1 article? | [17:17] |
| dorion: | diana_coman the first there or the second ? it occured the first (meaning flowing from authority, i.e. sovereignty) may be the root. and as a consequence, nothing is upstream of tmsr-os. | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it is indeed; I never realised that would not be obvious, but now you asked, it dawns on me it might actually be "obvious" only based on a certain way Maths was taught, huh. | [17:18] |
| dorion: | diana_coman i'm fresh. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: meaning being established through authority can be one root indeed and certainly ancestor of anything you want to bring in re implicit trust in current environment | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, give this a go and come back with what comes out of it | [17:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 17:13:46 diana_coman: dorion: how about those steps: aim first for a minimal tree with the root tmsr-os itself, see what you get on that, include branches on environment as much as you consider relevant | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: now, on version 1 : | [17:22] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016913 – ok. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 17:21:53 diana_coman: anyways, give this a go and come back with what comes out of it | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | you start with a statement that the reader's interest is derived from who they are (which is arguably obvious so fine) but then you qualify this with "ie your identity, signature, name, words and actions" | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | which is already one jump in itself | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | because you pick there a list and don't give any reason nor even indication as to how/why you picked those bits precisely | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | it is an enumeration in format but those things are not even the same sort really | [17:25] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, kind of a big jump too. | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the next paragraph introduces all of a sudden the "strong individual identity" | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | so now the identity is proposed to be strong or weak but again – why and where did this come from? | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | from that "expensive to replicate" it would seem to me you actually moved from a mainstream notion of "identity" to the republican one, based on rsa but you never as much as hint at this or even at there being a difference at all | [17:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I was going for who you are is what you do, and also how others perceive what you do, i.e. identify you. | [17:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman should I let you identify the gaps here and then reply one at a time ? | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: there you are touching then on yet another important bit that can't be just skimmed over – who you are is one thing; your own knowledge of who you are is however another thing; and your identity is a social construct | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | a whole forest in there | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | and you need to be aware of it quite explicitly so you choose a path rather than drop this or that as it comes | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes, let me go now through the list, apparently if I didn't write it up earlier, I'm doing it now anyway | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | next, from strong signatures (that you link at least to the strong identity, if not with much detail/argument, more of a statement of fact) you bring in yet another thing: "sound contracts" and those being pillar of commerce | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | which fine, they are but …where did *those* come from in your text so far? | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | and why commerce all of a sudden when it wasn't even mentioned before; why not war, why not sex, those are after all quite important for identity too! | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | words and actions,lol | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | having dropped the contracts and commerce in, the paragraph then steps back with what tmsr uses for identification purposes apparently | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | I can see the thought there ie signatures hence rsa but …it's not in the text, it's outside of it really | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, if you drop those acronyms in there, it's *those* you want to link/footnote if you aim also for non-tmsr audience | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | moving on, the next paragraph/sentence talk of more effective tools being essentially good than (supposedly) less effective tools | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | point granted with a side of raised eyebrows as to the need for it here; the increased leverage uhm, isn't that "more effective", yes? and what is "resourceful commerce" ? | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | next paragraph circles back on using "identity tools" but it's the first time those are named as such (and yes, I can see which and why you mean but take pity on a poor reader without all the background – how are they supposed to have any idea what this new construct is now?) | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | and then the text takes apparently a publicity break to inform the reader that if effective in contribution then contribution is …quite effective at strenghtening as apparently it has been noted above though it's the first time tmsr-os is mentioned other than in title + the first sentence | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | money comes in and at least it's likely to make all readers pay attention so good; but then: you are well advised, says the guide | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | and …by whom? why? whaaaat? | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | value function, bitcoin makes an appearance, peer to peer is mentioned though not introduced (in either form or function) and adamant is invited to give a speech in the middle of the text. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | once the speech suffered through (without any clear reason as to the reason WHY should one go through it), the guide is back with… everybody knows | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do not, ever, "everyone knows" in a text! | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | and off to fiat lands for the spell of one paragraph | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | (btw, you reader, still following and still keeping track of all those rabbits jumping about ?) | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | because we are close to the end, mercifully, as we find out that "that's what we're aiming for here with this OS" (because and because) | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | all of it in one sentence, since it's enough space to find out – be told! – that bitcoin is also an os (is this tmsr-os ? a different os? how different? why? is then bitcoin "this os" from the starting clause?) | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | and then the guide tells readers they are also not worth much more effort really: there's more he could say (DO believe it!) but he …won't say it! | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | because… dunno, apparently they should do some work too in the comments or something | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: fin. | [17:55] |
| dorion: | perhaps by that time I had exhausted myself out from all the gaps I'd been jumping over, but didn't take that as I sign that I should slam the brakes and ask for help. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | sounds very possible indeed. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | then again, you wouldn't have gotten a full blown review, so there. | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: does the above clarify the "what are the jumps" and how incomprehensible it is? | [17:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-20 16:01:19 dorion_road: diana_coman I think your summary does fit the text, I think I need more time to see just how incomprehensible the first section is. | [17:59] |
| dorion: | diana_coman lol. yeah, for sure clarifies. I really appreciate the full blown review cause not sure I'd have pieced it together on my own steam. there's nothing I dispute in what you said, I think the best I can do at this point is to acknowledge the appreciation by making this a comment there and making a note at the top to apologize in advance to the reader and to take heart that the comments | [18:04] |
| dorion: | provide relief. | [18:04] |
| dorion: | and more than anything this article is a good example of the ossasepia in action, so come over to #o if you're stretching to grow. | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you're very welcome :) | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | and I guess it's there next to bad titles vs asking questions illustration. | [18:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 16:39:24 diana_coman: and look at that, bad titles are better than good titles – at least at getting a different perspective since neither of you asked a question otherwise :P | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: tell me something though, did you never have any help or did you never let anyone help or why is the very notion of help such alien to you? | [18:09] |
| dorion: | diana_coman hm. I know in athletics, the center of my first 20 years, I had a lot of good help many times and enjoyed, relished good coaches. on the education side though I was pretty disinterested until about 20, at which point I had to fight to work on what I determined mattered. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you know, the principles are still the very same though; sure, a different sort of pain, but still pain too; it's a different type but of the same thing really. | [18:14] |
| dorion: | probably an unexamined bad habit that's coming into the light here. | [18:15] |
| dorion: | finding my feet has been a bumpy road. | [18:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-29 16:52:22 diana_coman: dorion: you see, that's the thing, when you say "my past" you forget that it includes not only coinapult and assorted similars but also all your own growth and following your own mind and finding your feet from what I gathered from those outlines | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | well, fight does mean no expectation of help, obviously, but… you won that fight already, no need to fight the help too, lol. | [18:18] |
| dorion: | I think there's some protection mechanism built in from people that I looked up to and that mentored me (either directly or indirectly through reading/listening to them) later turning out to be a lot smaller and/or less trustworthy than I thought. | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I can see how that can be; but look at it properly: what sort of protection is that to apply the breaks to learning instead of improving the evaluation/choice of mentors? | [18:24] |
| diana_coman: | it is also true that at the end of the day, it might very well be that any and all living people will turn out "a lot smaller" than you thought – after all, that has to do with what you think and nobody can ever stop you from thinking people anything at all | [18:25] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think I've moved in that direction of improving evaluation/choice of mentors, which is in part why I stayed in the shadows, but finally showed up here. there's probably a part that's still in the past though, so now the challenge/opportunity is to be fully present. | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | it's not as much that they did something or the other; it's always that your evaluation did not match what was there to start with; but that – like everything else – is something you get better at with practice and – inevitably – with failures in different degrees/at different times, sure. | [18:28] |
| dorion: | right. and the other part is to better integrate what I've learned from others and experience and act out the inner mentor – with the caveat that the inner mentor know when and how to ask for help. | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, it's at least in clear in the open and that's quite a lot in itself so… keep up the good work on it, is all. | [18:32] |
| dorion: | yeah, thanks for helping to bring it out. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | yw | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | calls it a long-enough day. | [18:34] |
| dorion: | diana_coman cheers! | [18:36] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016871 – I've been noticing this conceptual trees model a lot lately: nodes down the tree of idiocy, Everything's a something to a something else, except for the world | [18:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 16:49:37 diana_coman: basically to get clarity (and understanding really), you need to build and maintain trees, that's what it is; if you find yourself running around from one thing to another and lost in details, you need to abstract one level up; if you run out of abstractions/have nothing to say, you need to drill down | [18:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 04:19:17 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020#1016628 – the result of my dive into that specific swamp was after all that they are all quite the same wrt to want-account-won't-gpg; the differences are at most a couple of nodes down the tree of idiocy from there, with asiatics especially automated in the worst way possible; so on that side, the best I can currently say I saw at least is some that respond quickly and do as told … | [18:54] |
| whaack: | Well, I have to admit to another car related failure that could have been easily avoided. The price I received from 'expedia' was 1/3 of what the agency asked for at the desk. The 30 rental had 000+ in required taxes + insurance. I decided not to rent the car. | [19:52] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Not sure if that was a joke re Africa, but your red flags and alarms were right for one reason. | [20:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 15:33:31 BingoBoingo: having difficulties reading the string "going to go to liberia" without red flags raising and alarms sounding | [20:01] |
| jfw: | whaack: ouch, that's about the daily rate I paid in USA in December, short-term with ALL the insurance | [20:02] |
| jfw: | there at least the marketing is based on assumption that everyone already has insurance policy for the car back home | [20:03] |
| whaack: | jfw: wait, what was your daily rate? 30 / 30? | [20:05] |
| dorion: | whaack did you click through expedia all the way to the end to get a total from them or just extrapolate the topline daily rate over a month ? | [20:06] |
| whaack: | dorion: Yes I clicked through to make a reservation where they said the price I would pay at desk was 30 + insurance/tax. I willfully ignored how much that insurance and tax could be | [20:10] |
| dorion: | oic | [20:11] |
| whaack: | dorion: the tax + insurance was quite deceptive on the reservation receipt. It says after the price "The total price includes all mandatory taxes and fees." | [20:15] |
| jfw: | whaack: oops, got the math way off there, mine came to 00/day, from a base rate of ~32 | [20:16] |
| whaack: | It's the bottom bullet point "Your rental may have mandatory insurance requirements that result in additional charges at the time of rental." that tripled the price. | [20:16] |
| whaack: | jfw: aha. yeah well tbh the real price I was given (0 / day) was just what I expected the price to be prior to today. The only reason I believed the 30 price was because someone told me that they had rented a car for a day. When he told me that the a day was from a rental company, I laughed and called bullshit and questioned him. But he insisted that indeed got the car for that cheap. So when I went to rent a car today an | [20:31] |
| whaack: | d saw the listed prices I thought to myself "holy shit maybe the guy wasn't lying – there must be a fake car rental economy." (Like how there's the fake taxi economy in cities w/ subsidized Uber/Lyft prices) | [20:31] |
| whaack: | has some #o to read | [20:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: There seems to be a sort of "cheapskate braggart" that inflates they degree of the bargains they find much like "big fish" stories | [20:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or their story and price is right, but they ignore the whole… inflation thing. | [20:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or they omit material facts of the story. | [20:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | For example, Montevideo does have hotels that are price competitive with the local hostels much of the year, but… 1920's Latino poured concrete construction doesn't age well if it isn't maintained… | [20:45] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Right, I think he was being a "cheapskate braggart." He saw the price listed for a day so he said he paid a day (and conveniently excluded the fact that the insurance/taxes made it closer to 0 a day or w/e.) | [20:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or maybe he rented an air cooled VW beetle from a farmer he's known for some years in an informal sorta deal, or… | [20:48] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: No he specifically said it was from a company. The most likely thing I can think of is he already had car insurance back home that had international coverage. | [20:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe. Could also be a flexible definition of company or some other sort of fabrication. | [20:49] |
| whaack: | sure, who knows | [20:51] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Feb-2020#1016787 << because I'd rather rely on this than "one should not" and then deedbot isn't in chan for a week while I'm elsewhere. | [22:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-02-02 04:40:39 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Jan-2020#1016753 – hm, why? I can see the point if you expect this sort of accidental to happen much but otherwise dunno, if one wants the bot in there, one should not kick it "accidentally" and certainly not complain if they have to wait for it to get back if/when they kick it. | [22:24] |
| trinque: | /kick d<tab><enter> oops and so on | [22:25] |
| trinque: | remote controls on the thing would ftr be a better solution than this. | [22:25] |
| trinque: | but at any rate, connected and not in chan is a useless state, so I prevented it | [22:26] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/03/ejb-review-week-6-jan-27-feb-2/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 6 (Jan 27 – Feb 2) | [22:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I botched today. I wasted time with the car crap and then only did a bit of saltmines work. I spent some other time talking to friends from the states in the evening. | [23:30] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/03/wh-plan-for-week-17-feb-3rd-feb-9th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 17 (Feb 3rd – Feb 9th) | [23:36] |
#ossasepia Logs for 01 Feb 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I continued this morning reading about computer arch. Then I fixed the bug in ircbot, and I have a terse solution on top of the fix that should make the reconnect functionality more robust. I don't have a keccak vdiff tool at the moment (i can press keccak, but not actually make keccak vpatches – I may write my own as an exercise.) Lastly I spent a large amount of time trying to get my computer connected. I | [00:24] |
| whaack: | made the mistake of manaloning and attempting solutions that took time and gave me nothing in return. I am now going through a guide on networking, learning the commands jfw mentioned. | [00:24] |
| whaack: | From debugging my problem I've found that my computer is able to receive packets from my router, but is not able to send them out. I tried to install another driver for my realtek NIC (I am currently using r8169, but some forum conversations have said to try r8168). I ran into errors trying to build r8168 and learned I had to ferry over my kernel-specific kernel-devel and kernel-header rpm and install those. I did that, but now I n | [00:32] |
| whaack: | eed to choose a gcc to install (and would like advice on this.) | [00:32] |
| whaack: | ah. I am now able to ping my router. I did this by plugging my ethernet cable into a ethernet->usb converter. I had tried this before (to debug the hardware) but I did not properly configure the new network device the first time. | [00:55] |
| jfw: | whaack: what is the choice you're facing with gcc, does centos 6 ship multiple versions? | [00:57] |
| whaack: | jfw: centos6 minimal shipped with no version | [01:00] |
| jfw: | that's why I asked what they ship, not what you picked up so far ;) | [01:01] |
| whaack: | ah sorry, yeah i realize now. The concept of an os having a stable repository is new to me | [01:02] |
| whaack: | jfw: looks like it's v4.4.7 | [01:03] |
| jfw: | sounds good then. | [01:04] |
| whaack: | jfw: cool, gn! | [01:05] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/01/rmd-review-jan-25th-31st-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 25th-31st, 2020 | [04:33] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/02/01/rmd-plan-feb-1st-7th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Feb 1st-7th, 2020 | [04:52] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Jan-2020#1016735 <– yeah, this got feedbot temp-banned back in the day, not sure if I want it there myself | [08:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-31 12:30:05 whaack: spyked: that seems reasonable. btw, any chance you know why ircbot immediately rejoins a channel when it is kicked? I can't see why that behavior would be desired, and the multiple channels version rejoins all channels when kicked from 1 channel certainly makes no sense. | [08:36] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2018-11-26 mircea_popescu: there's no other way here, is there. | [08:36] |
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Jan-2020#1016741 <– makes sense, even though I'm not sure myself if ircbot-multiple-channels-corrected is too soon. so far every person who started implementing their stuff went directly on top of ircbot… maybe unexaminedly, so indeed worth looking at. | [08:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-31 21:18:36 trinque: spyked: I'd be willing to at least question whether what's already there can be generalized for people's use-cases, rather than branching the thing so soon | [08:39] |
| trinque: | spyked: kinda points to my having coupled it to postgres being a bad design, neh? | [12:36] |
| trinque: | rather than giving it a clean interface, and then written a second proggy as the glue between the two | [12:37] |
| jfw: | whaack, do you still have this pain? Seems like a tool or usage problem, I had no such difficulties blogging python-with-tabs, and the indentation would be important for legibility for any language | [13:03] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-29 whaack: trinque: pasting chunks of python code is also a pain given the blocks-created-by-tabs design | [13:03] |
| whaack: | jfw: I haven't been pasting around chunks of python in a while. If you're pasting python code always to the same place / using the tools, then you can set the tools' knobs the right way and there's no problem. The issue arises when you want to send a small snippet of code over a medium not normally used for sharing code, such as in an irc message. | [13:12] |
| whaack: | I see the argument though that you should never do this, or that if you need to you can always paste the code with paste.deedbot.org/ etc. | [13:14] |
| jfw: | whaack: no I can see it; the enforced newlines/indents is an artificial constraint that reduces your options. Though I suppose that's simultaneously the argument for it | [13:15] |
| jfw: | but it comes up also in the "why can't I have working lambda?" "because guido couldn't figure out how to make it pretty enough for his style" | [13:16] |
| dorion: | lol | [13:18] |
| jfw: | Seeing as how I'm just starting now, I've got about zero chance of finishing review and plan by my 21:00 UTC deadline. | [15:38] |
| jfw: | Then I'm occupied this evening. Really given http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Jan-2020#1016567 I should have started yesterday in order to finish today. I will treat the work time now as the preparing part and aim to leave myself a good start for tomorrow. | [15:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-29 14:39:11 diana_coman: jfw: how about you split this sort of thing into 2 "tasks": one is of the type "ponder and prepare", to be done on one day; the 2nd comes after that and picks up from the notes/output of the first; I'm making some assumptions here re what is keeping you from starting, since you haven't really said anything on that score so if it doesn't fit, you'll have to dig as to what the trouble really is. | [15:43] |
#ossasepia Logs for 31 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | dorion: ty for the references, I'll keep those within arm's reach. | [00:10] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-30#1016647 << this makes sense. I know that being able to at least talk to a human is top on my list (and yeah, I've had two encounters with asiatic hosters so far and both were ~100\% automated…) | [00:10] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 08:14:36 diana_coman: lobbes: so if you want to filter them more stringently, you need to decide first what are you filtering them for ie what you really can't live with (as usual, it's the negative that defines it, what can one do) | [00:10] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-30#1016648 << yeah, I guess save for flying and visiting a potential hoster it will always be hard to sniff out odd up-front. Still, I like your suggestion re: net pipes. I'll keep that in my back pocket. | [00:10] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 08:20:10 diana_coman: re search, I took at some point in anger the map of net pipes and went from there, datacentre lists per country etc; the trouble however is that as long as you search online only, the options are really "many of the same thing" with the odd stuff quite invisible as far as I can tell. | [00:10] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-30#1016650 << ack and agreed | [00:10] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 08:21:27 diana_coman: lobbes: also, you should publish your "fuck you, shinjiru", for your own future ref if nothing else | [00:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent the greater portion of my day writing the network socket notes article, and then went on to study the mother board, taking notes as well. The most notable discovery I made is that my GPU is not plugged into the fastest slot (the PCIe x16 – the only PCIe slot that connects to the North Bridge controller.) | [00:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: a day of discoveries at least, lolz. | [04:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: (and trinque:) I explored the problem with reconnecting with ircbot a bit more thoroughly and I have a few questions about submitting a vpatch. (1) There are some other side bugs I have found in ircbot, do I lump extra fixes into one vpatch or do I keep my vpatch concise with only one goal. (2) Reconnection atm is broken entirely (when the bot tries to reconne | [11:45] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-12-24 asciilifeform: you changed 'channel' slot in ircbot class to 'channels', but never bothered to change the corresponding line in make-ircbot !! ben_vulpes ) | [11:45] |
| whaack: | ct the program is guaranteed to crash). I can fix the immediate bug that causes this, but even then reconnection hardly does anything – because even with the fix the bot will only reconnect in a very specific narrow case that i'm not sure ever happens in the wild. | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: from my pov, as long as it doesn't result in a huge vpatch, I don't see any problem in one vpatch fixing several issues; just make it clear and readable, that's all. | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok. wrt to point (2) I can make a simple vpatch that fixes what is a clear bug but likely doesn't help further the goal of 'keeping ircbot connected' or I can write something more complicated to make ircbot reconnect aggressively | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do first the vpatch that fixes the clear bug, since that needs fixing anyway, right? | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | as to the reconnect, do what *you* need and then pack that. | [12:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. I will fix the clear bug and include in the reconnect fix a fix to some side bugs and submit a vpatch for that. Then I will submit a second vpatch (or perhaps regrind the first one) that redesigns reconnection all together. | [12:06] |
| whaack: | in the end i may just regenesis ircbot, the current vpatches use sha512 hashes | [12:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha; so then yes, regenesis it with keccak and that's it. | [12:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: kk | [12:11] |
| spyked: | whaack: this might prove useful | [12:11] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, good point spyked; thank you. | [12:12] |
| whaack: | spyked: ah yup, thanks. I'll have to think how to properly insert my vpatch in the tree and I'm sure I'll have some questions shortly. | [12:19] |
| spyked: | diana_coman, np. whaack: I think patching on top of ircbot-multiple-channels-corrected (or whatever you want to use for your code) is the right way to go. then whoever maintains their branch (e.g. I'm working on top of the trilemabot/feedbot branch) can add the patch separately and work from there | [12:24] |
| spyked: | trinque: does this ^ sound reasonable to you? | [12:24] |
| whaack: | spyked: that seems reasonable. btw, any chance you know why ircbot immediately rejoins a channel when it is kicked? I can't see why that behavior would be desired, and the multiple channels version rejoins all channels when kicked from 1 channel certainly makes no sense. | [12:30] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: comment in your modqueue. | [12:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: do you want to discuss the structure for that 2nd attempt at the +ev contribution to the tmsr-os article? | [13:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I do, but have a lunch meeting that I've got to leave for in about 15 minutes. are you available tomorrow evening 19:00 UTC ? | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: on Sunday then; tomorrow won't work. | [13:30] |
| dorion: | diana_coman aok, confirmed, thanks. | [13:33] |
| trinque: | spyked: I'd be willing to at least question whether what's already there can be generalized for people's use-cases, rather than branching the thing so soon | [21:18] |
| trinque: | arguably someone's wrong if such a tiny thing is being branched | [21:18] |
| trinque: | whaack: it aggressively rejoins channels because it was built to handle the voice model and "be in channel at all costs" was a goal of mine. | [21:19] |
| trinque: | I'd certainly sign a patch that made that a constructor flag, :rejoin t or something | [21:19] |
| trinque: | also would love an explanation of the bug you found! | [21:20] |
| trinque: | I bet this has plaged the thing for a long time if so. | [21:20] |
| whaack: | trinque: alright, i can make my vpatch make the rejoin channels feature be set by a flag | [21:21] |
| trinque: | I think it's important to differentiate between two reasonable use-cases, and fundamental disagreement about design. | [21:22] |
| trinque: | I think the former is appropriate as a flag, and the latter *must* be a fork in the V-tree | [21:22] |
| whaack: | trinque: I explained the bug briefly in #o but i'll have it in an article going over it in more detail likely by tomorrow evening along with the vpatch | [21:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:56:08 whaack: trinque: I think I may understand this if you never got around to it. The thread that normally calls ircbot-reconnect is the ircbot-ping-thread. However the ping-thread commits suicide because ircbot-disconnect calls (sb-thread:terminate-thread (ircbot-ping-thread bot)) . So when the ping thread calls ircbot-reconnect after calling ircbot-disconnect it never gets to the ir | [21:24] |
| whaack: | trinque: makes sense re two use-cases and disagreement. That said I can't say I really understand your use case – I didn't know that the voice model kicks people from channel | [21:28] |
| trinque: | I didn't want "oops I accidentally kicked the bot" to require human interaction. | [21:38] |
#ossasepia Logs for 30 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: As I was waiting for your response to the above I spent the day working on fixing the reconnect functionality for ircbot. I discovered another problem with ircbot's reconnection in addition to the one I'd mentioned before. To be able to best address the additional problem I needed to get a better understanding of system level network calls. So I spent time reading and taking notes on internet sockets, and s | [01:26] |
| whaack: | pecifically looked into the functions: socket, bind, connect, listen, accept, send, recv, and accept. | [01:26] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-29#1016559 << this is a point ty | [01:44] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-29 08:09:33 diana_coman: you are fine with it, cool for you; what about the stuff people were waiting on you to deliver otherwise? it's not the provider's scammy status the most interesting thing there. | [01:44] |
| lobbes: | dorion: I'm going to aim for getting that Gales install and write-up complete by Sunday | [01:44] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I want to filter these next isp providers a little more stringently; do you think as a general rule I ought to just stay away from providers that do not gpg and require 'accounts'? Also, did you use any tools/directories for searching besides e.g. duckduckgo queries? | [01:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: wtf is that whaack_temp_trav thing? | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Jan-2020#1016619 – well, I couldn't even read the whole dump so the first problem is that it's unreadable really; this doesn't mean there aren't further problems otherwise; re what-do: start with the purpose of the article (giving a clear and correct description of what and how the bot does), decide on how you want to structure it and then start filling it in keeping in mind that you aim to … | [04:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-29 18:04:41 whaack: d article I plan to focus on what the bot does, by going through that draft and cutting out everything that I deem an implementation detail that does not aid in understanding. Then, with what I have left, I will revise the pseudocode/explanations so that they are as clear as possible. | [04:09] |
| diana_coman: | … explain and get someone (be that some future you) up to speed. | [04:09] |
| diana_coman: | I would suggest you start with a blank page and use the existing draft only to extract info out of; because the trouble with trimming this one and whatevers is that you risk carrying over some of its problems anyway and there is little benefit. | [04:10] |
| diana_coman: | re waiting for an answer, what can I say – you could have asked the same thing earlier; it takes some planning, yes, the horror. | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020#1016624 – good; and since you looked into those and took notes, put it into the pipeline to write it up and publish it properly as an article one of those days. | [04:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 01:26:03 whaack: pecifically looked into the functions: socket, bind, connect, listen, accept, send, recv, and accept. | [04:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020#1016628 – the result of my dive into that specific swamp was after all that they are all quite the same wrt to want-account-won't-gpg; the differences are at most a couple of nodes down the tree of idiocy from there, with asiatics especially automated in the worst way possible; so on that side, the best I can currently say I saw at least is some that respond quickly and do as told … | [04:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 01:44:28 lobbes: diana_coman: I want to filter these next isp providers a little more stringently; do you think as a general rule I ought to just stay away from providers that do not gpg and require 'accounts'? Also, did you use any tools/directories for searching besides e.g. duckduckgo queries? | [04:19] |
| diana_coman: | … (though you might need to tell them 3,4,5 times and otherwise pre-empt their idiotic automations) | [04:19] |
| diana_coman: | after all, my blog is hosted with "if it can't be the right thing, let it be at least the cheapest" – and that means re interaction too, not only monthly price; there's ample previous pain behind that. | [04:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: so if you want to filter them more stringently, you need to decide first what are you filtering them for ie what you really can't live with (as usual, it's the negative that defines it, what can one do) | [04:21] |
| diana_coman: | re search, I took at some point in anger the map of net pipes and went from there, datacentre lists per country etc; the trouble however is that as long as you search online only, the options are really "many of the same thing" with the odd stuff quite invisible as far as I can tell. | [04:27] |
| diana_coman: | (if it exists even…) | [04:27] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: also, you should publish your "fuck you, shinjiru", for your own future ref if nothing else | [04:28] |
| diana_coman: | let's even see after all, can't hurt asking: | [04:29] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: do you have any recommendation of a data centre in Korea/around where you live? what data centre do you use? | [04:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah, apologies for the join/part spam from whaack_temp_trav. i had that nick parked in a separate channel watching to see if ircbot successfully reconnected. but somehow it passed my notice that it was also in #o | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, bots escaping notice, they'll take over next you know! | [09:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'll convert my notes for the internet socket functions into an article right now. I have an outline for another article that was going to be my daily article, but the outline is not thorough enough for me to be able to convert it into an article in 1.5hours. | [09:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol well the late whaack_temp_trav wasn't even a bot, it was just the nick used on my alt toliet box | [09:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Ishack is the venezualan I've done quite a bit of local trading with. He's interested in the fight against socialism. | [13:39] |
| whaack: | Ishack: bienvenidos | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | welcome Ishack | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is your log reading even slowing down now? | [15:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: seems so; the 30th was on the lengthy & challenging side | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: can you actually do a first pass/scan to get up to date? and jot down what/where you want to drill down later? because at this rate, you're lucky it's relatively quiet or you'll never catch up. | [15:56] |
| jfw: | Yes, I'd better. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | "circumvectamur amore" | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | quite so. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that cryptoworld pdf made an interesting read, let's say; are there many groups like that in panama or what's the wider landscape? | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw, now looking again through the 30th Dec day of logs with your reading in mind, I can see why you found it challenging; from koschei to naggum, rochester en passant and a whole other forest of trees around, huh. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | basically: such a pleasant day of logs! | [16:22] |
| jfw: | yep, I could indeed have got lost at an arbitrary depth. Didn't even attempt any ro-translation | [16:25] |
| dorion: | diana_coman there are a few public groups around 'fintech' and 'block chain'. the more public people tend to be more about 'apolitical technology'. with that being said, bitcoin dominates the market of what's traded and my understanding is the people that're doing the trading don't typically go to public events. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I'd expect they don't; trouble is, I expect there's more layers to "not public" and what you have there is not enough. | [17:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman not sure I take your meaning. as in it's still too public to motivate the more serious people to go ? | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: consider this: why do you think the people doing the trading don't typically go to public events? | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | (btw and just to be clear: do go to it, certainly). | [17:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman probably because they already have the relationships they need and have better things to do. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that doesn't seem linked directly to public or not public though, does it; ie something being not public doesn't do anything for them *in itself*. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | and what you have there seems more specifically built to be "not public", basically as a selling point in itself really | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: essentially what you are looking for with "not public" is access to a certain WoT. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | whether this thing is at all related to that WoT or not is the question really. | [17:16] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right on all the above. | [17:16] |
| dorion: | diana_coman the other leg to differentiate is to focus pretty much only on Bitcoin. e.g. someone associated with an altcoin asked to have the altcoin as a sponsor and the offer was declined. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: can't hurt, at least, for sure. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: why is there no mention of JWRD though? ie jfw is a special guest and you are entrepreneur and nobody would even guess you two are working together? | [17:22] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, that was a drop of the ball on our part. they made the flyers and we had several other corrections to give them, but didn't correct/clarify that part. | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020#1016669 – also, while this was close enough to serve the purpose there, note that if they indeed really have *all* the relationships they need, it means they are pretty much stuck and not going anywhere; if they indeed stopped evaluating, there is no possible entry (nor should you wish for one really since it's more of a waste of time in such case) | [17:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 17:11:34 dorion: diana_coman probably because they already have the relationships they need and have better things to do. | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that's a bit the thing, tbh it seems to me you are overall selling yourselves a bit short there and I don't mean only specifically this event (which is just one event after all, not the end of anything either way) | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what position are you aiming for in that whole landscape for jwrd? | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: mull it over if you need to, there's no hurry. | [17:31] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks, I can see the selling ourselves short at time. the short story of what we're aiming for is to be the go to people for those that want to take and enforce ownership of their assets and in doing so displace/marginalize the pretenders. | [17:33] |
| dorion: | at times* | [17:33] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020#1016664 – example of block chain crowd. | [17:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 17:01:03 dorion: diana_coman there are a few public groups around 'fintech' and 'block chain'. the more public people tend to be more about 'apolitical technology'. with that being said, bitcoin dominates the market of what's traded and my understanding is the people that're doing the trading don't typically go to public events. | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: being the go to people sounds to me exactly as it should be; the filtering though seems premature esp given that you aim effectively to educate too. | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | so yes, your solution solves the core problem (take and enforce ownership of own assets) but the point is that it will win on its own force, there's no need to prefilter otherwise since how can you, anyway | [17:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that seems to resonate also with mp's advice about limiting ourselves too much to the one, concrete service we've developed. | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes, it does; for a small thing that popped in your comment, you said -and I'm quite sure it's an accurate description of what happened there – " he got up to speed himself the best he could in a short period " | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | so cool, but wouldn't that have been better if he knew to come to you for that getting up to speed for instance? | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | not the full blown thing, sure, but exactly that, get up to speed in a saner way. | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | to the extent that it's about bitcoin, to my mind your goal is to be the go to there, pretty much end of sentence. | [17:47] |
| dorion: | I'm thinking to apply to speak at that block chain summit in march. that saifedean guy who apparently never managed to gpg or wot, but nevertheless cites mp and others previously present in his book, is a featured speaker. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, let me fill you in : http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-04-02#1635889 | [17:48] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-04-02 diana_coman: !!rate saifedean -1 bla-bla peddler full of air and nothing much besides it. | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | there's a lulzy thread there where he came in trying to peddle his book with all the assorted "correct" noises | [17:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah it would've been better if the guy mentioned in the comment knew to come to us. in 2017 we weren't active in marketing ourselves as such. planting and sowing the seeds to be the go to in 2020. | [17:50] |
| dorion: | diana_coman lolz | [17:53] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-04-02 diana_coman: it seems that academia meanwhile went even faster downhill than I thought possible; at this rate it will soon produce colouring books and "educate" people on how pencils are not even good for much besides making marks on paper (for which one can use their hands anyway! there's one chapter on that plus 10 on history of mark-making and its perks) | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I doubt he had/has any interest in learning or owning or whatever; he had/has an interest in selling the book to "normies" and all that; basically the "sales" at its "current best", there's enough money floating around that one can get some if working the required incantations long enough/in the approved manner. | [17:55] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, I didn't mean he is a good fit for what we're doing, clearly he didn't want to learn. but if they're going to let him talk in my city, why not me ? | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sure; my question to you though is why do you think you need someone to "let" you talk? set yourself up so that they will *have to* come to hear you talk, what let you. | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | figure out what you need for that and speak up and ask for it; it's not a lack of resources for intelligent works around here, at all. | [18:02] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, all about the set up. will do the figuring and speak up. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [18:03] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Jan-2020#1016627 – sounds good, I'll look forward to it. take your time and ping jfw or me if any questions arise. fyi, the install docs are a bit more terse than the build, e.g. fdisk and mkfs usage. the busybox docs and gentoo handbook may help fill in the gaps. | [23:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-30 01:44:26 lobbes: dorion: I'm going to aim for getting that Gales install and write-up complete by Sunday | [23:23] |
#ossasepia Logs for 29 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 9h of saltmines and my bidaily article. A little extra time on the saltmines/article + some inefficiency + 1hr30min of surfing left no time for my Spanish study. I'll get some of my reading block done before I fall asleep. | [01:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: that much I had seen in the logs, sure; except that was only an ack on your part with no specifics re what and *when* you'll DO it, you know? | [04:15] |
| diana_coman: | you are fine with it, cool for you; what about the stuff people were waiting on you to deliver otherwise? it's not the provider's scammy status the most interesting thing there. | [04:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did it fit within the time? reading the text sounds like on occasion you remembered it for a bit but not much, indeed, heh. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Jan-2020#1016550 – I gather next time people are bewildered by what you are getting into, you can admit that maniacal slavedriver indeed but you enjoy it like that! | [04:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-28 21:07:19 jfw: Though I find I did enjoy the exercise a bit anyway. | [04:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:35:32 jfw: They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [04:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-15 21:10:24 jfw: all, rather than go on spinning along the lines of "diana_coman is a maniacal slavedriver and I can never sleep again, or I'm inadequate for unfathomable reasons" | [04:22] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/29/jfw-review-week-of-jan-20-2019/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Jan 20 2019 | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I guess that answered my question re time, huh. | [04:31] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: yes, both summary and review went quite over time, the latter over bedtime. The just get moving problem again there | [13:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-25 15:50:16 diana_coman: jfw: yeah, you need to learn to just get moving; time for pondering is when you go for a walk/set aside time specifically/can't do anything else anyway, that sort of thing but not when you should just start on something; takes some practice though, like everything else. | [13:08] |
| jfw: | there was plenty of written material to consult for the review, but my mind didn't seem to want to help on recalling or putting it together. | [13:10] |
| jfw: | re slavedriving I'm not sure where I could have done better. I didn't want to cut sleep but also didn't want the task to continue hanging over, I figured that would mess up the rest of the week even more than the sleep. Is there a better option I'm missing besides the obvious "don't take so long"? | [13:14] |
| whaack: | I'm looking into seeing if I have the right driver for my network interface card. First I need to find out what NIC i have. Through my search I saw I should use lspci. However this command does not come bundled with the minimal centos 6.9 install. Should I try to install lspci or should I find an alternative method to figure out what NIC I have / what driver I need? | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: since the trouble is at the getting started part, it's that you need to address really; sure, once you get started too late, it will spill one way or another. | [14:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how about you split this sort of thing into 2 "tasks": one is of the type "ponder and prepare", to be done on one day; the 2nd comes after that and picks up from the notes/output of the first; I'm making some assumptions here re what is keeping you from starting, since you haven't really said anything on that score so if it doesn't fit, you'll have to dig as to what the trouble really is. | [14:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, how come you don't know what nic you have, to start with? | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | didn't you make this computer with your own hands? how can it be you don't …know what is in there? | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, you can try lshw perhaps (and more specifically lshw -class network); or ifconfig -a if it says anything | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, when you find yourself postponing starting on a task – did you try to just pick a different task from the full list for the week and see if there's any on which you'd start directly? | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | because if there is, it would at least give you some clues re what's exactly going on. | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | (and if there isn't, that also says something – namely that you need to learn to bake in proper breaks as well, because you most probably end up using household chores or whatever as "breaks") | [14:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I did not spend time studying the motherboard and all its components | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why not? | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: where did you ever lose your curiosity ? | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | there are all those components that you get to see directly and otherwise end up afterwards doing all sorts from playing your others-are-working shit to everything else and you …don't even look at it when you specifically take it out and put it back in; why? | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | you know, it's this sort of thing that turns out any task into "minimal effort and I'll call it a day"; does it need to bite you so you actually look at it properly? or what, do you need me to ask you to draw detailed diagrams of everything? | [14:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not sure why not. I guess because I saw the mission be to get the computer built and thought that studying the mobo in more detail was a large task for another day. | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as in for another day that never comes. | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: mk, so turn it off, open it up, study the mobo. | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | write it down; turn it on, try the lshw and see. | [14:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright. | [14:53] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, the mission was to get the computer built but that includes knowing *what* you are building it out of! ffs, how can it NOT include that to this degree that you don't even know what nic you have? (or maybe you don't even have one? lolz) | [14:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not going to be surprised at this point if I don't have one / I have a broken one. | [14:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: One mildly annoying, probably possibility you run into is that it's a realtek that wants a firmware binary that your Centos Install image didn't have. May have to ferry it over manually. | [14:57] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I believe that is the case | [14:58] |
| whaack: | I say that because while doing research on my mobo I found Realtek LAN Driver's for windows. | [15:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: To address your other q's: I hope that I have not 'lost my curiosity.' But based on this I must say 'i hope my curiosity has gone dormant only temporarily.' Looking at the mobo now and taking in what's there, it's clear that I did not observe the thing at all previously. For example, before I did not even notice it had an optical connector. A quote from An Outpost of Progress comes to mind. | [15:14] |
| whaack: | "They lived like blind men in a large room, aware only of what came in contact with them (and of that only imperfectly), but unable to see the general aspect of things. The river, the forest, all the great land throbbing with life, were like a great emptiness. Even the brilliant sunshine disclosed nothing intelligible. Things appeared and disappeared before their eyes in an unconnected and aimless kind of way. The river seemed to c | [15:15] |
| whaack: | ome from nowhere and flow nowhither. It flowed through a void." | [15:15] |
| whaack: | I have questions about the mobo, I can ask them all in here if you'd like or I can first research and see if I can answer them on my own. | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: don't you have /didn't you find already the full spec & docs for your mobo? | [15:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | so doesn't that hold the answers to your questions re mobo? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | and myeah for the rest; wake up already, it's worth it way more than drifting about. | [15:53] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Jan-2020#1016567 – ok. I wish I could say more on what the trouble is, it's not clear to me either. I will try this split and see how it goes | [15:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-29 14:39:11 diana_coman: jfw: how about you split this sort of thing into 2 "tasks": one is of the type "ponder and prepare", to be done on one day; the 2nd comes after that and picks up from the notes/output of the first; I'm making some assumptions here re what is keeping you from starting, since you haven't really said anything on that score so if it doesn't fit, you'll have to dig as to what the trouble really is. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you do that sort of feet dragging for all tasks? | [15:55] |
| jfw: | I believe it is task-specific so not about inadequate breaks in general | [15:56] |
| jfw: | ^ lines crossed but similar point; it's not all tasks. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | so what's the crucial difference between the 2 classes of tasks then? | [15:56] |
| jfw: | hm. first thing coming to mind is 'writing' but that's not it since it depends on the subject | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | and that's not a difference either :) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyway, do you really mean you never drag your feet on anything *other* than writing? | [15:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the questions are of the 'what does this thing (that is likely a part of all mobos) do?' type | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | (because hm, I think I have counterexamples at the ready, lol) | [15:59] |
| jfw: | no, other things too but… I think I get over the resistance quicker. but maybe I'm blacking out your examples? | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so research that, but do mind your sources; and you know, it's not *only* mobo that has spec and docs. | [16:00] |
| whaack: | ok | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the obvious that I recall seemed mainly of the "don't really care/want to deal with this" | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, try then to basically prepare it that way in advance and see how it goes; hopefully you don't then drag feet on even pondering & preparing it, ha; maybe set up the time for that when convenient/you'd do some thinking/planning anyway. | [16:03] |
| jfw: | will do. | [16:04] |
| jfw: | whaack: the traditional model in Windows was that peripheral vendors ship their own driver binaries, whereas in Linux, open source drivers for all supported hardware are included in the kernel tree (though not necessarily built/installed everywhere). Around the 'vista' era, Windows started gaining more generic drivers out of the box, but still the existence of a realtek driver isn't that | [16:11] |
| jfw: | surprising and doesn't tell you much about the linux situation. | [16:11] |
| jfw: | I kinda doubt 'lshw' will be there if 'lspci' isn't; but I still suspect there's yet things to be learned from closer study of 'dmesg'. | [16:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I want to clarify that I understand the problems with my most recent article on fleetbot's pseudocode and the right way forward. As I see it what I did wrong was I published something closer to a dump of notes than a clear explanation of what the bot does. (and that dump of notes was awkwardly worded.) As you said what I published was a draft. For the revise | [18:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 12:38:24 diana_coman: basically you published a draft, what can one do. | [18:04] |
| whaack: | d article I plan to focus on what the bot does, by going through that draft and cutting out everything that I deem an implementation detail that does not aid in understanding. Then, with what I have left, I will revise the pseudocode/explanations so that they are as clear as possible. | [18:04] |
| whaack: | jfw: ok. I was using that link just as evidence/a clue that the nic on my graphics card is a realtek. (Of course, there are better methods to find out what my NIC is) | [20:48] |
| whaack: | jfw: There was something else I saw in dmesg, when I connect my computer again I | [20:49] |
| whaack: | I'll take a look again and post what I saw that may be relevant to my problem | [20:50] |
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Jan 2020
| jfw: | That balance of catching up while keeping up with present #t log and articles swung entirely to the latter today. Poor Fixpoint is again silent. For tomorrow I think I'd best focus only on the log catchup, summary, review, and #o. | [02:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (16h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (16h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016507 – ahaha, he has his moments. | [04:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 20:51:31 jfw: well congrats to dorion on tempting me way off schedule with that os review article! | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that sounds overall like a lousy day; you need to fix this santa cruz thing though, one way or another, because it's more of an ongoing nuisance than anything else. | [04:02] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Jan-2020#1016515 – do focus on the logs first; articles can wait, esp when they are anyway fresh out like yesterday's temptation there. | [04:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-28 02:29:38 jfw: That balance of catching up while keeping up with present #t log and articles swung entirely to the latter today. Poor Fixpoint is again silent. For tomorrow I think I'd best focus only on the log catchup, summary, review, and #o. | [04:04] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: thanks, i can see how that sort of 'ping' was a shitty one | [04:35] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (11h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (11h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I got a few errands done in SC, but yes it was not a great day. I don't know how to fix the Santa Cruz thing nor am I sure I want to. It's one of the few (and often the only) times i get out during the week. At the minimum I need to get groceries – there's a local store but its stock is abysmal. | [09:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: fix does not mean "get rid of the trip",lolz; what it means is "make it *work* properly" | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing, getting out does not have to mean santa cruz (and I rather doubt it's such a great place for *that* purpose) | [09:45] |
| whaack: | Okay, I meant to have a written plan for this trip but didn't get around to it so I just started writing things I wanted to get done while in the car ride there. | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that may or may not help; like any fix, it starts with figuring out the problem; so on one hand if it's just groceries, see if there's a more efficient way of getting that done; if it's getting out, plan proper get outs, what, it's not like you "get out" to visit the grocery shop wtf; on occasion the 2 can mix, sure, but it doesn't have to be the default or anything; and at any rate, the core trouble there is that it's both … | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | … longer than it's worth (for what it is) and unpredictable in the sense of mostly screwing up the whole day and/or snowballing etc. | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | (I admit I could never count shopping (of any sort, groceries or whatever else) as getting out.) | [10:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yeah, shopping is not "getting out". yet since there's no bars or hostels or w.e. to meet people here where i live, i've been making an effort to make the most of talking to people while waiting in line, lol. I will keep that going but figure out a better way to meet people. Last Sunday I ate at a restaurant and noticed they had a bar and a decent number of people showed up. Mostly older expats, but it's something | [10:20] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Jan-2020#1016522 – ack. | [12:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-28 04:04:45 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Jan-2020#1016515 – do focus on the logs first; articles can wait, esp when they are anyway fresh out like yesterday's temptation there. | [12:03] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (6h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (6h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how is the mpwp test&deploy&handover moving in the end? | [15:27] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (1h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (1h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-28#1016547 << not too well. MP said to simply ditch the scammy Shinjiru so I will listen and ditch | [20:18] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-28 19:19:44 diana_coman: lobbes: how is the mpwp test&deploy&handover moving in the end? | [20:18] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2020-01-28 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957408 << roger that. Yeah, the 'oops suspended' thing was pretty odd. I'm fine just declaring "Shinjiru" a scammer and finding someone else then | [20:18] |
| lobbes: | So now my plans have changed for this week as I need to source a new provider. While doing that sourcing I may as well make those fixes to Auctionbot. | [20:18] |
| jfw: | I seem to have forgotten the "having fun with it" on today's summary, fell back to "covering all the points" (which of course doesn't end up covering them all) | [21:03] |
| jfw: | Though I find I did enjoy the exercise a bit anyway. | [21:07] |
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/27/wh-review-of-week-15-jan-20th-jan-26th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 15 (Jan 20th – Jan 26th) | [00:20] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/27/ejb-review-week-5-jan-20-jan-26/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 5 (Jan 20 – Jan 26) | [00:29] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/27/wh-plan-for-week-16-jan-27th-feb-2nd/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 16 (Jan 27th – Feb 2nd) | [00:29] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo I grant specialization is a problem, but baseball is its own can of worms. in most professions if you deliver on a regular activity 30\% of the time, you're fired. in baseball they'll not only let you hang around for 20 years if you can get a hit 30\% of the time, they'll make you a hall of famer. shit, they euphemisitcally call it batting 300 cause it's so damned hard. | [00:29] |
| dorion: | plus, baseball has more developmental levels to leap through prior to getting to the show than any other sport. | [00:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Baseball being its own can of worms is true. Still basketball height is a liability on the line of scrimmage in handegg. US Runningbacks are too bursty and heavy to do Euro/Latino football. | [00:40] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo picture if MJ instead went to catch or throw TDs at soldier field for da bears those years. | [00:40] |
| dorion: | lol handegg. | [00:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/27/ejb-plan-week-6-jan-27-feb/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 6 (Jan 27 – Feb) | [00:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Tall can be an advantage in handegg up to a point. Too much height is a lot of extra injury risk in a sport built around collisions. | [00:41] |
| dorion: | sure MJ's frame doesn't suit him for running back, but I don't doubt he would have had any issue dropping or catching dimes in the nfl. most of the elite quarterbacks and wide receivers around MJ's 6'6". | [00:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | Now, if MJ or Kobe picked an arm and trained pitching all their lives… Their height can mean wicked speed, wicked curveballs, or both. | [00:43] |
| whaack: | dorion: unrelated, you may enjoy reading You Know Me Al: A Busher's Letters I read it off of BingoBoingo's recommendation, it's pretty funny | [00:43] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/27/jfw-review-week-of-dec-16-2019/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Dec 16 2019 | [00:44] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo troo. and I don't doubt that both would have owned the inner half of the plate and batter mental real estate all day, every day given their killer instincts. | [00:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: That's true, but he'd have to be carrying a bit more weight and he'd likely have had a much shorter career. It's part of the specialization being treacherous. | [00:45] |
| dorion: | anyways, I'm a better person for witnessing kobe compete. | [00:45] |
| dorion: | BingoBingo yeah, 16-20 nfl games is brutal. then again, the nba's 100+ ain't no walk in the park. | [00:47] |
| dorion: | while football is a collision sport, basketabll is a contact sport (or used to be). | [00:47] |
| dorion: | whaack thanks for the link. | [00:48] |
| whaack: | of course, and I forward thanks to you BingoBoingo | [00:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | hasn't been following sports actively in a while, especially not since flying south | [00:50] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm sure you noticed while you were sleeping I was ~2 hrs past that 21:30 cut off, but published the plan was. | [00:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Thank you. | [00:50] |
| whaack: | ^ lol new feedbot feature, messages get dm'd to you mid dream | [00:52] |
| dorion: | BingoBoingo I retired from heavy fandom in ~2011ish after Kobe tore my Celtics heart out. Now I'll maybe watch a game or two a year for pure entertainment or at social gatherings and am quite happy to either not know 1/2-3/4 of the players or have my mind fucked to see old players on completely new teams. | [00:53] |
| dorion: | to call it a night, hasta manyana. | [00:54] |
| whaack: | buenas noches | [00:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did not do much today, my output was reviewing the fleetbot article (which came out poor), writing up the review for the week and plan for next week (neither of which are particularly detailed), and addressing some points i glossed over in my first response to mp's comment a while back. | [01:35] |
| jfw: | Looking at my less-recent past appears to go easier than the more-recent. I got the missed December review without much trouble but for this week's I've hit a lot of initial resistance. Not seeing any way it gets done on time either. | [01:51] |
| jfw: | though that shouldn't surprise me since apparently I tried to fit the 2 reviews in the same time frame I normally just get one, huh. | [02:01] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/27/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-27-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 27 2020 | [02:33] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (40h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (40h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: why won't you link that qntra course offer from the contribute to qntra article? or is it linked and I just missed it? | [04:00] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016345 – cool; fix what can be fixed, indeed. | [04:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 22:35:34 whaack: diana_coman: whaack: can the justification-problem be fixed? << If you mean can I fix the problem of running to excuses / explanations of why I make mistakes, then yes I certainly hope so. If you mean can my specific justification ('it was my first time!') be something that can be fixed | [04:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016353 – I did hear this before, except with a different sports-name, heh. | [04:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 00:29:12 dorion: BingoBoingo I grant specialization is a problem, but baseball is its own can of worms. in most professions if you deliver on a regular activity 30\% of the time, you're fired. in baseball they'll not only let you hang around for 20 years if you can get a hit 30\% of the time, they'll make you a hall of famer. shit, they euphemisitcally call it batting 300 cause it's so damned hard. | [04:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016372 – ahaha; it's enough to know, what notice, lol; and glad it was, I'll read it. | [04:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 00:50:39 dorion: diana_coman I'm sure you noticed while you were sleeping I was ~2 hrs past that 21:30 cut off, but published the plan was. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016378 – what came out poor, the article or the review or what? | [04:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 01:35:01 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I did not do much today, my output was reviewing the fleetbot article (which came out poor), writing up the review for the week and plan for next week (neither of which are particularly detailed), and addressing some points i glossed over in my first response to mp's comment a while back. | [04:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016379 – was it more than just the resistance of uhm, fitting 2 in space for 1 indeed? | [04:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 01:51:58 jfw: Looking at my less-recent past appears to go easier than the more-recent. I got the missed December review without much trouble but for this week's I've hit a lot of initial resistance. Not seeing any way it gets done on time either. | [04:21] |
| new_yh: | f zyx | [06:58] |
| diana_coman: | hello new_yh 1 | [07:04] |
| new_yh: | f Hi Diana | [07:04] |
| diana_coman: | what brings you around here? | [07:05] |
| new_yh: | f curiosity, i was reading some blog posts on trilema… | [07:07] |
| new_yh: | f what is about? got my mind stuck there | [07:07] |
| diana_coman: | new_yh 1: heh, curiosity is the best reason to be around really | [07:08] |
| diana_coman: | new_yh 1: which bit are you asking about? there's a lot going on around here, kind of both wide and deep. | [07:09] |
| diana_coman: | new_yh 1: you can change your nick to something more… yours, you know? the command is /nick what-you-want-as-nick | [07:11] |
| new_yh: | f for me is like the unseen part of life. anyway thanks! do you have a group or something? forum etc | [07:16] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: you mean a place where people talk to one another? like…here? lolz; there are the logs, see http://logs.ossasepia.com/log | [07:18] |
| diana_coman: | and the intro for this place: http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/20/the-young-hands-club/ | [07:19] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: it does tend to strike people as a lot of… that unseen part of life, indeed; mainly because nowadays there seems to be so *little* part of life outside, what can one say. | [07:20] |
| Trixmi: | logs are ok but i prefer structured data. | [07:21] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: as to the "group", I guess see http://younghands.club/ | [07:21] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: o.O ; what do you mean by structured data in this context? | [07:21] |
| diana_coman: | you'd want q&a ordered by a neat and all-knowingly-upfront hierarchy of "topics" and all that? | [07:22] |
| diana_coman: | or "threads where we discuss X and not Y + we have moderators too because saying the bad words means you don't have a point"? | [07:23] |
| diana_coman: | the blogs try – as much as that works, which is not all that much – to have reasonable categories and/or tags for articles | [07:24] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: would you mind saying how old are you? | [07:25] |
| Trixmi: | as where u can mark/search the data / threads – yes | [07:25] |
| Trixmi: | 30 | [07:26] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: you can search the logs for sure; you can even download the data and get it into your own db/R/whatever and so mark it to your heart's desire | [07:26] |
| Trixmi: | thank you | [07:28] |
| diana_coman: | for #trilema channel there are a few summaries for some of the weeks way back, see the category on my blog; for the rest, do realise that it's precisely very much alive, hence no, doesn't fit that easily in that sort of straightjacket. | [07:28] |
| diana_coman: | np; do speak up at any time and ask questions, it tends to work best. | [07:28] |
| Trixmi: | (y) | [07:29] |
| diana_coman: | there might be delay in receiving an answer as people are not always around; but stay connected and an answer will come, people do read the logs. | [07:29] |
| diana_coman: | Trixmi: do you have a blog/write somewhere online? | [07:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now this is gold! | [07:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: it seems I somehow ended up duplicating my comment on your rock article though no idea how that happened; please delete one, ofc. | [08:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: also, there's a "//" trailing there so possibly you have something borked in your theme | [08:08] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (35h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (35h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: This run through, I aimed to write around the style guide, and linking the course and bringing in material from that needs to be done for sure. | [10:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 04:00:42 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: why won't you link that qntra course offer from the contribute to qntra article? or is it linked and I just missed it? | [10:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the article itself came out poor, the review of the article has not been done yet. | [11:57] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016290 <– specifically, this review has not been done yet | [11:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 17:47:32 diana_coman: whaack: do a proper review and update of that article as really, I can't read it. | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: review & update as in just fix it; no need to write another review article about the review etc, ok? | [12:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay, but I should post the fix as a new article and leave the old one as is, correct? | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in this particular case, just update it; hopefully it's not a FULL REWRITE you need there either, is it? | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | basically you published a draft, what can one do. | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: or do you intend a full rewrite/structural change? | [12:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well perhaps a different format would have been better. but in the interest of time I can trim some of that fat off this one and fix some wording to make it be somewhat useful. | [12:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes I was intending to do a full rewrite | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: gah, why not aim for the right thing the first time! | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: fine then; if it's a full rewrite, it will have to be another article, yes; and time there will have to be found to do things properly, sure | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so think it through properly this time, choose your structure well and write the 2nd article, all right. | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. | [12:41] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: meant to say, did you ping MP re your answer there? and I do mean specific ping "I answered this", not just this. | [12:53] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-01-21 bvt: hello. i have also published and replied to all comments | [12:53] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (30h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (30h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:30] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016394 – I thought there was more resistance to even getting started on the second than the first. However this could just mean I was in some way drained after the first; also I see I did a number of tasks not strictly required at the time, causing me to start too late, so those probably amount to resistance on the first as well. | [13:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 04:21:49 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Jan-2020#1016379 – was it more than just the resistance of uhm, fitting 2 in space for 1 indeed? | [13:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, there's also carrots, not only sticks, lol; the result of having done one review should not be "cool, now jump directly into ANOTHER one", lolz | [13:46] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: yep, I didn't set myself up well there. | [13:53] |
| jfw: | Working on reply to plan comment. | [13:54] |
| jfw: | replied. | [14:08] |
| jfw: | lobbes: comment in mod q. | [14:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why not focus that second presentation quite explicitly on your training (aka its rationale in the first place, ofc), what's wrong with that? iirc there'd be quite a lot of punchier stuff anyway, from the away from fast food computing to your motto even | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | as far as I'm aware it's not like you get paid for those presentations so I don't see how/why would they have something against you actually …promoting your stuff | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | or what's the rub? | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ^ if you have something to add there. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | it's re jfw's comment | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, your descriptions of your presentations lack one very important part, namely the "why should I care about this"; possibly you cover it well in the actual presentation, but since you didn't mention it there, better said than passed in silence, just in case. | [16:17] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I often cover the 'why care' but probably sometimes neglect it, so better to make it explicit, yes. | [16:20] |
| jfw: | There's not a problem with promoting; I think the idea is to demonstrate value & knowledge rather than a direct sales pitch though. A proper sales presentation is something dorion was devloping & practicing so I think he'd be the one for that anyway | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: dunno, I don't quite see this difference you make there | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: maybe you can clarify the above from the sales presentation part | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and at any rate, don't do this "that part is not mine, won't touch it"; just like dorion still learnt and learns some tech, so will you still learn some more sales too, for sure. | [16:26] |
| jfw: | as I understand it the sales presentation is roughly: here's the problem you have; here's what we've done about it; here's how we will help you get to where you need to be; then here are the choices, prices & next steps. | [16:27] |
| jfw: | yeah, would be good for me to continue improving there for sure | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | but back to the point of the presentation itself: recall that you are trying to essentially help people solve some problems so that's where it starts from; sure, proving you can solve their problems (hence knowledge and value) is important, but first of all make sure they are listening aka they can see how it relates to their problems | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha, crossed lines there; so yes, first part of sales presentation is still relevant, though you can of course choose to illustrate with a different problem/other specific angle | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | it even helps perhaps, since then you get to cover more between the two of you | [16:30] |
| dorion: | diana_coman jfw I don't think there'll be a problem focusing the second around our training. the hosts are satisifed customers as it is and no, we're not being paid to present. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: more to the point – wouldn't it be what serves you best too? | [16:31] |
| dorion: | yes and ultimately the atendees since for the most part, they don't know what they don't know. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | sure; make it useful to them too, absolutely. | [16:32] |
| jfw: | and haven't yet seen why they *should* know it | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: exactly! | [16:32] |
| dorion: | jfw the deck I have is very close to the business plan with the main difference being it's made to guide a conversation rather than be read. | [16:33] |
| jfw: | I am liking this angle: we're making the same pitch but exploring in different directions | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | your main aim is precisely to make them see why they should know it; everything else comes second to that really; and jfw nobody will ever think they should know it just because you show you know it. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: exactly that: same pitch, different directions | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | admits she has never ever been into sales but seriously now. | [16:36] |
| jfw: | "and jfw nobody will ever think they should know it just because you show you know it" – experience confirms, lol | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | ain't experience a darling. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | and look at that, bad titles are better than good titles – at least at getting a different perspective since neither of you asked a question otherwise :P | [16:39] |
| jfw: | thanks for the sharp eyes diana_coman. | [16:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ahaha. working on asking in lieu of fucking up so you point it out. | [16:42] |
| jfw: | y'know I did ask dorion + the organizers for feedback on the topics :P Should've asked the not-really-into-sales person instead! | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw you're welcome :) | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: one way or another… | [16:49] |
| jfw: | dorion: http://dorion-mode.com/2020/01/tmsr-os-january-2020-statement/ << to review December, straitjacket (or straightjacket apparently), after following, 14:32:04dorion_road, ought to exist | [17:00] |
| jfw: | "tmsr-os.orgUSG.dnsTVraft" << hurt my eyes even knowing the reference, also not sure the relevance since using your domain instead of some other domain is still DNS | [17:02] |
| dorion: | jfw thanks, wanna make a comment ? | [17:03] |
| jfw: | idk, would you prefer that? | [17:03] |
| dorion: | yeah. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-01-27#1957491 fare, not fair; well, hopefully fare fairly but anyways. | [17:05] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-01-27 dorion: re 4.9.4 diana_coman noted GNAT and Eulora have been built/tested with it and it's unknown at present how earlier versions will fair on that front. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ^ | [17:05] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks. | [17:12] |
| jfw: | dorion: what's your present process for importing log lines to wordpress? I ask because I have a hunch it's burning time + producing errors | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (25h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (25h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| jfw: | well congrats to dorion on tempting me way off schedule with that os review article! | [20:51] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-27#1016433 << yeah there's something really odd going on with my theme. The comments are actually not being duplicated in the DB I don't think, however blog appears to be showing every single comment twice for some reason. I'll have to dig into it | [22:17] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-27 12:00:58 diana_coman: lobbes: also, there's a "//" trailing there so possibly you have something borked in your theme | [22:17] |
| lobbes: | btw ty diana_coman spyked jfw thimbronion for the comments on the article. Even though I think I'll need to ditch this provider for scammy behavior I'm still going to try those suggestions for my own edification. For one, I'm simply curious what the issue is (hell maybe an article reviewing Shinjiru can come of it) and two, I simply need to learn how to deal with this kinda troubleshooting | [22:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (21h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (21h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: The trip to Santa Cruz was delayed and took longer than expected (~7h), and I came back tired and did not have time for saltmines (apart from answering a few messages.) For this week I'll let my fiat wallet take the hit, but next week I may need to ramp up my saltmines hours back to previous levels (20h/week) as I finish up my contract. | [23:27] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | diana_coman: just to update before I head to sleep: I'm definitely behind a bit with the logger work, but still progressing. I toiled a bit today because the server wasn't accepting connections via port 6667 (for IRC). Turns out it had a firewall already installed (firewalld), yet even after adding the port I still can't establish an IRC connection from the server | [00:25] |
| lobbes: | So tomorrow morning I need to either dig deeper into understanding firewalls and iptable rules (the latter because from what I gather firewalld is just a interface for iptables), or else I just say 'fuck it' and connect the bot to a znc instance instead (since I can set that up to take connections from whatever port). | [00:25] |
| lobbes: | me will look at the above 'either/or' again tomorrow with a fresher mind | [00:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Working on the fleetbot pseudo code article ate up the whole day. I finished a reviewed draft but I don't have time for the 1hr+ wait then review, so i will review tomorrow morning and then pbulish. | [01:01] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (64h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (64h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what's that firewalld? it's first time I hear of it, is that a centos7 thing? ftr on centos6 I always had at most iptables (and at times not even that is really needed, depending on what you want with the machine exactly). | [04:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: pbulish ahead! | [04:50] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (59h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (59h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: meant to say: do speak up if there's any way I can help; journalism is not something I know all that much about but if you think it helps to bounce off some ideas or anything, just speak | [09:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Thank you. | [09:59] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (54h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (54h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Jan-2020#1016182 – alive indeed. yesterday paid off some sleep debt incured friday from svg article, but enjoying the mtn climb today. | [15:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-25 15:51:21 diana_coman: dorion: you alive under that mountain of writing you set for yourself for this weekend? lolz | [15:40] |
| dorion: | indulges impulse to play "country roads" then "rocky mountain high" | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, that's back to 15, lolz | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you around? | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: is that tmsr-os going to cause some more sleep debt today? | [15:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think I have a good handle on it, plus it's not yet 15:00 here. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: while I'm sure that's true, the best answer to that sort of question goes along the lines of "there's still x, y, z to do/at s stage and those should not take more than h hours so that leaves me a buffer of p hours counting from 3pm here to end of day/whatever hour" | [15:58] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I am around now. Sorry about that | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, you have first to answer MP in #t for quite a few things so maybe do that first anyway | [16:12] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: will do | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-26#1016212 << centos7 yeah, and firewalld is apparently a daemon managing firewalls. Though even turning it off doesn't solve the port-being-blocked issue, so I suspect something else is afoot | [16:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 08:42:38 diana_coman: lobbes: what's that firewalld? it's first time I hear of it, is that a centos7 thing? ftr on centos6 I always had at most iptables (and at times not even that is really needed, depending on what you want with the machine exactly). | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | ^^ I had that queued so figured I'd respond now | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: centos 7 already brings in systemd so yeah, expect all sorts; that being said, if it's a virtual machine you have there, iirc on centos there is at times some additional mess with "containers-wtf" so that's another possible addition to your tower of problems. | [16:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm okay, yeah that sounds like it could take me some time to figure out | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you can at least check relatively easily aka simply turn off iptables and firewalld and whatever other firewall you have already and see if that sorts it out at least | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | but dunno, I'd have thought you were trying to keep things *simple* since even then they are enough of a headache | [16:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: turning off firewalld didn't help things, though I didn't try also turning off iptables. I will try that | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: lolz; listen, this is basic: when you want to figure out the culprit, you *walk the whole chain* until you find the exact place; ie sure, start from whichever end but don't do just one thing and then walk away; so: either you turn off one by one *everything if need be* or you start with everything off and then add them back one by one until you find it. | [16:29] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah this makes sense. I was doing the haphazard jumping around thing instead of sane reasoning | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | dunno people, did those jumping arounds *ever* worked for any of you? | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | lozl | [16:30] |
| lobbes: | sometimes my issue is I don't know the whole chain even, but instead of trying to understand the chain I start doing the 'shamanism' | [16:33] |
| lobbes: | *shamanism thing | [16:33] |
| lobbes: | indeed, never works out | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: it's a huge waste of time really, even if it may feel different | [16:34] |
| whaack: | I would say that jumping around is a skill I've mistakenly been honing my whole life. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at least it's a …methodical jumping! | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:35] |
| whaack: | It's an art in and of itself, even if completely misguided. How fast can you bang your head and then find another place to bang your head until you've determined where things are in the room? | [16:35] |
| whaack: | exactly lol | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | gives a whole new meaning to using one's head! | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was it that they didn't have centos 6 anymore or why 7 anyway? | [16:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: honestly I wasn't sure the difference between 6 and 7; I'd never used either | [16:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016223 – thanks. I have the outline done and intro drafted. filling in the remainder of the outline primarily involves gathering the relevant links. I'm aiming to get it done by 18:30 here. then I will take a break for other things from 18:30-20:00 and have 20:00-21:30 as a buffer. aiming to be offline by 21:30 and asleep by 22:00. | [16:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 15:58:41 diana_coman: dorion: while I'm sure that's true, the best answer to that sort of question goes along the lines of "there's still x, y, z to do/at s stage and those should not take more than h hours so that leaves me a buffer of p hours counting from 3pm here to end of day/whatever hour" | [16:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016246 – my favorite hs math teacher had a bullseye on one of his walls with, "bang head here." written on it. lol. | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 16:35:37 whaack: It's an art in and of itself, even if completely misguided. How fast can you bang your head and then find another place to bang your head until you've determined where things are in the room? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: wait, is that the review & plan you are talking about, right? | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | outline + intro fine; how is the filling mainly links though? | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Jan-2020#1016239 – btw, this is not a problem in itself; if you don't know the whole chain, then you'll discover it by brute force even, if need be, what; sure, ideally you figure out the chain first but if that's a too high step to even start with, then just turn the damn things off ONE BY ONE – you'll still find out more about them that way. | [16:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-26 16:33:23 lobbes: sometimes my issue is I don't know the whole chain even, but instead of trying to understand the chain I start doing the 'shamanism' | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | there is the fact that on some things nobody really wants to find out all that much, granted; but that's a consideration for an earlier point in this story. | [16:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this makes sense | [17:00] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yes, I'm working on the tmsr os review and plan. the outline is fairly comprehensive, full grammatical sentences, so even that there is more to write, I have a good idea of what's to be said. thus, I anticipate most of the time to be consumed digging out the links to reference what's being said. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: hm, all right. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you provide a table of contents then do it properly and make those items links to the right place in the text. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | don't do things by half, it's ~always a losing strategy. | [17:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Noted, I will fix that right now. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aaargh, do not do the "we send" "we receive" "we …" | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | either own it that you do it or name the code/bot that does it. | [17:21] |
| whaack: | i see the ugliness of that wording. the latter solution makes the most sense to me, the article is supposed to describe what the code does | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how many more lines do you reckon I get to read before I barf again? lolz | [17:27] |
| jfw: | hm, believe I did some of those "we"s in the gbw-node series too | [17:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: probably not many, i can see some lines that will likely cause barfing on their own, and since you're already nauseous.. | [17:31] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: oy, so I went to go disable iptables and it turns out it wasn't even running. Apparently firewalld is a replacement for iptables, not an interface for it like I originally thought. Now I really wish I looked into cent os 7 vs 6 before pulling the trigger on this server | [17:31] |
| lobbes: | In any case now I know that with iptables/firewalld off I still cannot connect via port 6667. | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! you mean to say that since your previous lines already made it hard for poor subsequent lines to be read… | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: iirc your gbw-node series was written more like a walking the reader through the whole thing so possibly the "we" there stood for you-and-reader; it can work in that way if that's indeed how the text is built. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, if you just used it instead to hide behind it then yes, they'll stick out just as annoyingly as whaack's | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: can't they install something else or what's the thing with centos 7? | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | iirc centos 6 is set to vanish this March so myeah, possibly already gone from standard menu. | [17:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, I suppose I could get them to install something else, but I'm not even sure that *is* the problem (though probably is if 7 is systemd). | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | Plus, I'd need to wait for them to provision it, etc. | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | I tend to spin on these 'do I trade time already invested for a chance for saved time in the future' dilemmas | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what are your criteria to decide? | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | because yes, lacking clear criteria, you'll spin, of course, what *else* could you do. | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: is it a physical machine or a vm? | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: physical (rented dedicated server) | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: at any rate, note that this is not about "can't open port so I'll change OS", lolz | [17:44] |
| lobbes: | sure, I took it as "cent os 6 at least has less chance of towers of strange, plus more republican documentation" | [17:45] |
| lobbes: | but indeed, I lack proper criteria here | [17:46] |
| lobbes: | or at least, it isn't loaded in my head right now which I can see is a problem | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do a proper review and update of that article as really, I can't read it. | [17:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | and by review I mean the content too; remember that part with writing something to convey the meaning, not to prove that you actually read it in detail, yes? | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: where /on what did you run this before? | [17:50] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: all the development was on my other server running classic Gentoo | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what is classic gentoo anyway? | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | I have trouble being able to imagine "one" gentoo as such, it's more like shifting sands | [17:51] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thx for pointing out that distinction on the 'we'; not presently sure where my usage falls but will keep in mind | [17:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: eh just Gentoo (I was trying to distinguish from Cuntoo but.. unneeded) | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. as you were commenting on my article I was thinking to myself "well, this is my first time writing an article like this." but it's not, I did a similar article with similar mistakes when I annotated v.py | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what if it were first time even? | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so nothing. my mind was just racing to find a justification for having err'd | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's a justification going to do? | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | (I mean: what *good* is it going to do?) | [17:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: nothing, unless the justification reveals a problem that can be fixed | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, for all I know, you'll likely run into troubles (different set, sure) with centos 6 as well, mainly because of old versions of everything | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | so basically you have 3 (or more) sets of problems to choose from | [17:56] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ah yeah, I do recall your version troubles with cent os 6 while standing up the logbot (which is the base for this bot anyway) | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | your criteria should focus on ~which set of problems is the best choice currently given the whole context | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | thank you, I was about to ask how I should go about the criteria making | [17:58] |
| lobbes: | this makes sense | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: does it? | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the search for justification reveals a problem, certainly, lol | [17:59] |
| lobbes: | I think so. So in other words I need to look at each set and figure out which one I'd rather invest my time in | [17:59] |
| whaack: | lmao | [17:59] |
| lobbes: | I suppose I'd do that by finding the set that has the most 'capped' problems (ones that I can see the solution too at least) | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: eh, you're talking pure theory there | [17:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: absolutely :P | [18:00] |
| lobbes: | well, then perhaps I do not understand. How do I evaluate which set of problems is the best choice ? | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: why talk pure theory, how is that going to help you really? | [18:03] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I don't have much experience, so most of what I have is theory | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | I mean sure, I can let you nod at theory and get on with it | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: that above was the theory of a theory though, lolz; you don't have experience, fine, but ask how to do stuff, don't just nod that it's fine so you can then stare at it all some more (except now with a new theory behind the stare, sure) | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what *are* the existing options anyway, that's where it starts from, practically | [18:05] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is something I do a bit now that you mention it. This nodding along thing. I see what you mean | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | list the options; list your constraints, priorities, burning fires and coming impalements (or similar); since you don't know much about either of them, you'll probably need then to ask people about the corresponding sets of problems, so you'll do that | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | and if you don't want to burn, you'll probably at the very least keep people (the relevant people!) informed too | [18:07] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay. I may make this into a mini-article while I'm at it | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | can't hurt anything for sure | [18:08] |
| lobbes: | that'll also help to keep informed. okay | [18:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: thank you as always | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you're welcome; and if you keep quiet the whole coming week too, you'll have some additional fire coming after you. | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: can the justification-problem be fixed? | [18:10] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I can definitely hear the impalements being sharpened in the distance. I'll make sure to speak up | [18:10] |
| lobbes: | I'm going to step away from the terminal for a bit, but will return to get that options list (and review/plan) out tonight | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | sounds very sensible indeed. | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do search for causes; do not search for justifications. | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow. | [18:13] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (49h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (49h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| dorion: | ffs, the week I decide to write the dealing with death article, the best basketball player/athlete of a generation (who I probably spent days if not weeks watching during my fan years) crashes and burns on a hillside. rip kobe bryant, i suppose I'll reflect on you too in the mix. | [21:28] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (45h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (45h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: whaack: can the justification-problem be fixed? << If you mean can I fix the problem of running to excuses / explanations of why I make mistakes, then yes I certainly hope so. If you mean can my specific justification ('it was my first time!') be something that can be fixed | [22:35] |
| whaack: | fat fingered enter button halfway through typing | [22:36] |
| whaack: | If you mean "can my specific justification ('it was my first time!') be something that can be fixed?" then no, "because it was my first time" is a useless answer to "why did you fuck up?" | [22:38] |
| whaack: | doing a task for the first time is heavily correlated with messing up but it is not the cause itself | [22:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion: Basketball player maybe. The problem with best athlete is… specialization. See Micheal Jordan's adventures with the Chicago White Sox. | [22:45] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/25/rmd-review-jan-20-24th-202/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 20-24th, 202 | [00:57] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/25/rmd-plan-jan-25th-31st-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Jan 25th-31st, 2020 | [01:19] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (88h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (88h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: add the patch+context to the write-up, sure; re tired, you'll have to figure it out but focused work can do that at times, lol; break/refresh/nap even helps. | [04:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the article is not bad at all; how was it timewise and/or feet dragging-wise? | [05:19] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (83h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (83h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re adding patch+context to write up. as to the tired thing – i did take a break (in the form of a short surf session) and i came back with more energy. I am surprised you'd suggest a nap, i've always considered napping a bad idea that is to be avoided if possible | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why? | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | "if tired then go to sleep" doesn't change just because it's 3 pm or something; sure, a needed nap, not a full-blown siesta or something. | [11:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The main reason is because then one may have trouble falling asleep later | [11:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: also because there's some startup/wind down cost to sleeping, so it's better to do it all in one go | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | but seriously, even at 18, after 6 hours of Uni-level Maths at our prof's rather unrelenting pace (peppered with "this is obvious, won't go in detail, you'll figure it out yourselves in time for the exam), I *needed* 20 minutes nap, lol | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what you are describing is not nap though | [11:59] |
| whaack: | right i am thinking on the 1.5 hour scale not 20 min scale | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | needed nap is exactly that, basically a system shutdown to refresh; fall down and sleep, wake up 15/20 minutes later without any alarm clock or anything. | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | neah, 15-20 minutes thing; it makes though a significant difference. | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | hence my above: *not a siesta*! | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [12:00] |
| whaack: | haha | [12:00] |
| whaack: | i never use alarm clocks, unless i have to catch a flight or something | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | alternatively, you figure out what refresh works best for you, but it has to work and fast enough too. | [12:01] |
| whaack: | i'll give the 20 min nap a shot next time i feel similarly | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | re clocks, what can I say, generally I can rely on internal alarm clock to even wake up within ~5 minutes of desired time but I don't think it's an absolutely needed skill for everyone otherwise, lol. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | really, 5 mins? that is impressive. i don't know much about sleep cycles, but I have a suspicion that it's better to wake up at the moment one wakes up naturally than from an interrupt w/ an alarm clock. So even if I do have an alarm clock set, if I wake up with <1 hour remaining until the target time, I turn off the alarm clock and just get up at that moment. | [12:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For my writeup of the pseudocode I am going to only detail how the bot works on a per-network basis. This is because I am restructuring how I coordinate the orchestra of bots. I will include a section on what went wrong with the current orchestration strategy (each network having their own process) and describe possible solutions + the one i'm going with + why | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: 'twas more of a side effect really, never aimed as such for it or anything of the sort; and sure, it works under normal circumstances (ie it certainly wouldn't have worked – not that I even *tried* it, ffs – when extremely tired as in will fall asleep if I as much as lean on a wall for 1 second). | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds good. | [12:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (78h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (78h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The writeup is looking like it's going to take the better portion of the day, but it has already been a fruitful exercise. There are problems I've discovered from not having fully digested ircbot. | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, sounds exactly as expected :P | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, do it anyway. | [15:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yeah, i expected you had expected this outcome, lol | [15:32] |
| whaack: | and i even bet you're not surprised that i am not surprised that you expected this | [15:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I was pleased with the improvement in the article quality dimension, unfortunately the time wastage did not improve. I find I engaged in various other chats first, which surely could have waited a bit longer, then once started I let it drag on about 3 hours. I recall this being mostly pondering & obsessing & some re-reading & outlining at first, then once I got moving it wasn't so | [15:46] |
| jfw: | bad. | [15:46] |
| jfw: | This then came at the expense of the wallet work time. | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yeah, you need to learn to just get moving; time for pondering is when you go for a walk/set aside time specifically/can't do anything else anyway, that sort of thing but not when you should just start on something; takes some practice though, like everything else. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha; who do you find to do that bet with? :D | [15:50] |
| jfw: | isn't taking the bet | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you alive under that mountain of writing you set for yourself for this weekend? lolz | [15:51] |
| whaack: | xd i found a few fools in my truck full of logs | [15:51] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I expect I'll have plenty more opportunity to practice the just starting. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: certainly; will you take the opportunity to do exactly the just starting though? | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | (and yeah, I noticed and fully appreciated your help yesterday in the logs but it did ring the bell, hence the q today) | [15:54] |
| jfw: | I'll do my best & let it improve from there. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | sounds good. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | I'm limiting my goal for reviews for today to just the wayward December week, as I still have all the usual to finish as well. So it'll be two days of two of those practice opportunities, heh. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | now that's properly setting yourself up at least on the count-your-opportunities side ! | [15:59] |
| jfw: | will be at keyboard but focused elsewhere unless requested. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | perfect. | [16:01] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (73h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (73h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (69h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (69h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Stuck to schedule, except I didn't have time for my Spanish study. For TheFleet I ran into a dead end trying to find a way to reduce the memory my program uses. asdf at a minimum consumes ~25MB. I tried to load asdf -> load my program -> unload asdf, but afaik there's no way to "unload" in CL. On another front, I investigated and discovered the reason for the join/disconnect dance. I was disconnecting becau | [00:58] |
| whaack: | se the servers were sending malformatted irc replies. My bots logic is to reconnect when it hits an error, so it would get stuck in a cycle of connect->disconnect from bad reply->reconnect. Going forward I plan to not reconnect when I receive a malformatted reply. Also, I will put a limit on num reconnects per time window. | [00:58] |
| whaack: | And I read through a good chunk of cl-irc. I was going through some of the utility functions in the code that handle formatting, string parsing, encoding/decodings, etc. That was mind numbingly boring. There were certain large functions/macros that I did not grok and will have to tackle again. Tomorrow I will read more of the high level code. | [01:01] |
| jfw: | facing the puzzle of reporting two fails while not being too hard on self nor being too slow about the reporting. | [01:39] |
| jfw: | first: I'd intended to start before dinner or at least directly thereafter, which didn't happen | [01:41] |
| jfw: | *start writing. I ended up doing first all manner of other things that had been put off – laundry, dishwashing, a phone call home, a walk. (perhaps that displeasure being relative point is proven already! – not that those things are especially displeasurable, in fact some the opposite so idk) | [01:46] |
| jfw: | I did start though and not so late as to be tired, so, second: the log summarizing went poorly. I found myself going back through the text, trying to note each point of conversation briefly yet faithfully. I did not get far at all, by input line count or output word count | [01:54] |
| jfw: | I thought maybe I should instead try to work from memory, but… there's so many unconnected / loosely connected points, I think I'd just end up with some kind of random sample of what happened to stick | [02:00] |
| jfw: | another thought – ignored butterfly perhaps – was to (re)read one of the ossasepia log summary articles to get a better sense of how it could be done | [02:02] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (112h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (112h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Jan-2020#1015980 – this type of situation (too many/too quick reconnects) sounds like something you'd want reported to you/flagged too. | [03:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-24 00:58:41 whaack: se the servers were sending malformatted irc replies. My bots logic is to reconnect when it hits an error, so it would get stuck in a cycle of connect->disconnect from bad reply->reconnect. Going forward I plan to not reconnect when I receive a malformatted reply. Also, I will put a limit on num reconnects per time window. | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Jan-2020#1015984 – ahaha; well, if you get to cleaning ovens, the whole house and start looking for maybe digging as well the garden you don't have, *then* you'll know for sure you're truly avoiding there something! | [03:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-24 01:46:20 jfw: *start writing. I ended up doing first all manner of other things that had been put off – laundry, dishwashing, a phone call home, a walk. (perhaps that displeasure being relative point is proven already! – not that those things are especially displeasurable, in fact some the opposite so idk) | [03:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: summarising is not an easy task at best of times (because it means basically that you fully digested the whole thing and are then able to re-tell any/all of it at whatever level of detail you choose; there's a LOT going on to end up with a good summary, let alone an excellent one) | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | add to that the fact that #t logs are not an easy read either and so take the time to appreciate and enjoy the steps you took on that long road really | [03:43] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it takes time; no, there's no hurry nor pressure on *this* front so don't add it yourself where it doesn't belong | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so listen, do your reading of #t to catch-up and then for writing go ahead with the practice of summarising what you read of #t but *without* pressure on the result being "a faithful summary of all points" or whatever else; let it be exactly a summary of your recollection (if you need to, brand it as such, it's your own blog and you can write there "what happened to stick" too, what!) | [03:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: even better, take the writing on the #t logs as the fun part of the catchup and so write it whichever way you'd like to, be it picking and pointing what you enjoyed reading or poking fun at parts or whatever else! | [03:49] |
| diana_coman: | the log-summary can turn in log-satire even; I'll probably enjoy reading it all the more for that! | [03:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how long do you think it would take you to write down a schema of what your bots/full setup do exactly? e.g. the pseudocode of it all. | [03:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, from the sounds of it, what makes you avoid/postpone/drag your feet there is not perceived difficulty but outright perfectionism getting in the way. | [03:59] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (107h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (107h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| diana_coman: | now why does my blog spam keep asking me -and in Romanian too! – to order birthday cake in Kazan of all places and things to order. | [08:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm not sure, I would say 4-6 hours to be safe. It'd be a good exercise. Though I first want to apply some fixes for the problems discovered during the test run. | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right, apply the fixes first and then schedule somwhere the write-up of what's in there too. | [11:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i scheduled the writeup for tomorrow. i'll try to begin later today though if time permits | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: wait, so are you done with the fixes and otherwise figuring out the cl part and everything else? | [11:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have not applied the fixes, but I have a good idea of what needs to be done and I don't think it will take that long. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [11:36] |
| whaack: | The difficult tasks left are (1) fixing the memory issue, or figuring out a way to sidestep the problem (2) creating the function (get-all-channels-i-am-connnected-to) | [11:36] |
| whaack: | For (2) my plan is to parse the db and determine that we are connected to a channel if a JOINED-CHANNEL row for that channel appeared more recently than the latest DISCONNECTED-FROM-CHANNEL row. The problem with this is that if there is an unclean disconnect, then the function will return false positives. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | jfw: Can you explain, "You'll need to decide whether to apply initial or future rounds of yum updates. " ? | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Would it be an appropriate time to write my own V, and then use it to install items on my new comp? Or should I use an existing tested V and leave the exercise of writing my own for a later time? | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, re that plan on get-all-channels etc – it seems to me you should first set out to write properly your understanding of the whole thing and only then look at that and identify the best way to do what you want done | [11:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok | [11:50] |
| diana_coman: | solving a problem is always a matter of a. properly identifying what the problem IS in the first place b. scoping it out c. figuring out the options to address the problem d. choosing one option (with clear reasons too!) | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | it should never be "oh, this looks like it might solve it, let's go" | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how about manually v-ing for now, it's not like you need a ton of presses of very complicated trees, is it? | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | and damn it, now I really need to recall the name of that rrmartin story. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you are done with reading&understanding that cl part you are using, then write up what you have and then add to it what problems you are trying to solve + what options you see | [11:55] |
| whaack: | it should never be "oh, this looks like it might solve it, let's go" << this gave me a real chuckle | [11:55] |
| whaack: | ^ do you m ean the cl-irc part? | [11:57] |
| whaack: | mean* | [11:57] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: will give it a try with the low-pressure log summary, thanks | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes, cl-irc part | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: cool. | [11:59] |
| whaack: | alright, no i am not done reading & understanding it, i will continue today | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: good; that comes first; then the write-up; then decision/discussion; only after all that any implementation. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack | [12:00] |
| jfw: | whaack: re yum updates – Red Hat publishes errata in the form of advisories, updated source RPMs, and binaries for paid customers. CentOS grabs the updated sources, applies the occasional rebranding type patch, and builds their free binary RPMs. These live in a separate "updates" repository while the base repository in theory doesn't change from release time. Sometimes the problems fixed are | [12:23] |
| jfw: | minor; sometimes they're security related; sometimes those might even be exploitable in your usage. Obviously this is not a V-like process, so the decision is necessarily kinda blind: do you trust the old packages with more-known holes or new ones with unknown holes? | [12:23] |
| jfw: | Standard "best practices" in "the industry" based on vendor's advice is to always install updates timely – if you're compromised by known bug it's seen as lazy system administration, whereas if compromised by the inherent bug of 'always take updates' policy then who coulda possibly predicted. | [12:25] |
| jfw: | That clarify the mess at least? | [12:26] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes it does, thank you. | [12:31] |
| jfw: | and would you have anything to add/correct there diana_coman? I recall you distinguish 'updates' from 'patches' but not sure how that works out in CentOS case | [12:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: re CentOS tbh I do not upgrade and that's that; the whole old-holes vs new-holes can easily be stated in quite a few interesting ways (perhaps the most appropriate being the good ol' are you with the party -and so we'll commiserate at your loss though ofc you'll lose- or are you not with the party and so you are to blame for (all) loss(es). | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | re updates vs patches what/where do you mean? | [12:35] |
| jfw: | ah, vpatch vs upgrade was the distinction rather; http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Nov-2019#1008861 | [12:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-05 16:02:55 diana_coman: jfw: out of pure curiosity now: do you find yourself upgrading software much those days? | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate and to state it clearly: it's not that I consider CentOS 6 to be some great OS or anything of the sort. It's just that I don't currently have anything better to put in its place and it is at least not changing aka not creating more work for no reason. | [12:39] |
| jfw: | right. I like the 'party' comparison | [12:45] |
| jfw: | whaack, would you like any more input from me on the CL memory thing or are you set for now with tracking down what the code does and what might be the problem? | [12:48] |
| whaack: | jfw: I would love input on the CL memory problem | [12:48] |
| jfw: | ok, well 25MB supposedly due to asdf is an improvement on 70MB noted previously, do I understand right? | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: btw, your description above was fun to read anyway; my "write it as satire and have fun" earlier was not random either. | [12:49] |
| jfw: | ty diana_coman | [12:49] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes, and that was from running my script with 'sbcl –script my_progam.lisp' (with (require "asdf") as the first line instead of running my script with 'sbcl –load my_program.lisp' (–load automatically loads an init file ) | [12:50] |
| jfw: | whaack: a tricky thing with that 25MB, depending how you're measuring – might not be asdf itself but parts of sbcl that got swapped in to load it (just guessing, I'm not up on sbcl internals), or garbage collection overhead | [12:51] |
| jfw: | one way to look at it though, is that a CL environment is like an operating system in its own right, with memory-resident compiler even | [12:51] |
| jfw: | so the way it 'wants to be used' is with internal scheduling – internal processes/threads or some async thing | [12:53] |
| jfw: | so that overhead is paid once and shared by all processes. Running multiple UNIX processes, as IIRC you're doing, works but is kinda like loading a separate Linux kernel for each shell | [12:54] |
| jfw: | Doesn't this bot support threads? | [12:54] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes. And if I can't reduce the memory overhead I am planning on redesigning the system to run all in one process | [12:56] |
| jfw: | why would that be a 'redesign'? too much state in global variables or something? | [12:57] |
| whaack: | (i meant redesign the system to run in one unix process, still using multiple threads) | [12:58] |
| jfw: | well I guess the way it spawns up bots for the many networks would have to change at least. | [12:58] |
| jfw: | (understood) | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why did you choose separate unix processes vs single process? | [12:59] |
| jfw: | If it really is ASDF eating all that RAM though, the next step on that route could be removing that and explicitly specifying the whole buncha .lisp files to load and in what order, as I think you were planning anyway. | [13:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Two major reasons. One was for fault tolerance, since my program is writing to log files, parsing messages from random networks, etc. I figured there was a lot of opportunity for something to go wrong, and I didn't want a problem with one network crashing all the other networks. | [13:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The second reason is that there is a cap on threads-per-unix-process and web-sockets-per-unix-process. This problem is likely fixable – I believe there are commands / settings I can change to increase these caps. | [13:02] |
| jfw: | 'web-sockets'? O.o | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, for the first reason, if it crashes, it's the code that crashes so the fault is in there and as a result, not much gain from separating. | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | it's not the network that crashes after all, but your code. | [13:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. it's not a great reason. it's similar to the ~ "i'm going to throw this all in a try/catch cuz i can't conceptualize all the things that go wrong" | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, for now do the figuring out and the write up and the problem(s) description + options you see and we'll work out a proper process from there. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | (which I do anyways, surrounding the code that reads messages from the network) | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thing is, they will go wrong whether you conceptualize them or not; and the apparent-defense is worse than no defense in that it masks the problem until it becomes a beast. | [13:08] |
| whaack: | jfw: yup i could figure out the order of the .lisp files, but I think I'm going to pass on that task. and web-sockets i guess is the wrong terminology lol. there's a max number of sockets-per-process | [13:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yup. the reconnect-disconnect dance was an example of a masked problem that bit me | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | myeah. | [13:12] |
| jfw: | whaack: ah ok, saw the dashes and figured those were the literal symbols. There's also a Unix-level limit on file descriptors per process (which category includes sockets): ulimit -n | [13:14] |
| whaack: | jfw: I have to review what a file descriptor is / how "files" work under the hood. My understanding is that there is a table mapping integers to files. The integers in this table are the file descriptors. Files are anything that can be written to or read from. So they can be a block of address space in storage, or a buffer from a connection over a network. | [13:21] |
| jfw: | not a bad approximation; one missing level is the 'open file object'; these can be shared between processes. The file descriptor table is per-process | [13:24] |
| whaack: | did not know the file descriptor table was per process | [13:25] |
| jfw: | 'block of address space in storage' – not if you're thinking of that as a contiguous region on disk, it's more indirect than that, but the kernel presents it as contiguous address space, yes | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (102h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (102h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| whaack: | jfw: ok, i wasn't sure either way | [13:30] |
| jfw: | 'buffer from a connection' – the 'buffer' doesn't quite belong, it's more of an implementation detail. Could be as small as one byte (perhaps on a serial port) | [13:31] |
| jfw: | example of per-process FDs: FD 1 is considered 'standard output'; one process might have it connected to an xterm (via pseudo-tty driver), another to a regular file (as in a shell redirection), another to /dev/tty1, another to /dev/null etc. | [13:34] |
| jfw: | bbl. | [13:36] |
| whaack: | ok ty | [13:37] |
| jfw: | is back btw. | [15:46] |
| whaack: | I am getting an error "Determing IP Information for eth0…" failed. [Failed] after running "service network start" I guess I am missing a driver. My /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 file has the [following contents] [http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=aX_B] | [16:30] |
| whaack: | I also get spammed RTNETLINK answers: File exists | [16:34] |
| jfw: | whaack: I suspect you've got some basics to learn here too. ifconfig and route commands, DHCP | [16:36] |
| whaack: | yes i do | [16:36] |
| jfw: | the sysconfig scripts are fine but merely automate lower level tools that you will still need for figuring out what's going on. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | add 'ping' for sure too, then in the more advanced level of the toolkit there's arp, netstat, tcpdump. Then there's name resolution which is controlled principally by /etc/hosts and /etc/resolv.conf and there's various tools for DNS testing. | [16:43] |
| jfw: | iptables will be a thing to learn about down the line I expect. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | jfw: alright, i will make a note to look into all those tools. for now am I correct in thinking that the error I'm receiving is because I am missing a driver? | [16:52] |
| jfw: | I think not. | [16:53] |
| jfw: | ifconfig will have the answer to that though. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | wishes he had man pages | [16:54] |
| jfw: | lol. well there's man pages online. Or on your mac, though there are slight differences. | [16:55] |
| whaack: | lol the man pages on the mac are dangerous! i got tripped up by a slight difference for some command a while back | [16:56] |
| whaack: | (specifically: the mac man page for crontab doesn't mention that crontab will fail if the crontab file doesn't have a newline at the end, nor does the tool give a warning.) | [16:57] |
| whaack: | the result from ifconfig brings up eth0 with RX: packets:3259, so it looks like there is some life there, i will invsestigate | [16:59] |
| jfw: | possibly very simple problem: did you try 'service network restart' ? perhaps it was already working but the scripts don't detect the double-start? | [17:01] |
| whaack: | yeah i did try that | [17:02] |
| whaack: | looks like the problem is with dhclient not being able to get an ip address. the output from "ip link" and "mii-tool" makes me believe i am connected to my router | [17:34] |
| jfw: | First base to cover is whether it's even expected to get one, i.e. that the router is serving DHCP. I would imagine so if it's a typical home setup. | [17:36] |
| jfw: | Next, you could run dhclient in the foreground to see its output (would also go to syslog normally but uncertain as yet that you have that captured) | [17:36] |
| jfw: | re 'makes me believe', I'm less familiar with the 'ip' suite, it's a newer linuxism; the expected ifconfig output would include UP and RUNNING. Also worth checking for blinky lights on the network port. | [17:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: lights are blinky. dhclient eth0 -d gives me a few "DHCPDISOCVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 7 (xid=0x1745f5ef) lines, and then No DHCPOFFERS received. | [17:45] |
| whaack: | I went to my router's page and I believe it is servering dhcp | [17:46] |
| jfw: | well, we could rule out DHCP problems for now by manually setting an otherwise unused IP/mask in the correct subnet and see if router pings | [17:50] |
| jfw: | hm, I'm also recalling that centos has some firewall rules enabled by default, though not especially strict. Possibly SELinux too | [17:52] |
| jfw: | on the former, 'iptables -F' should flush all the rules until next boot; on the former, check 'getenforce', either Disabled or Permissive is ok | [17:55] |
| whaack: | jfw: I set a static ip address and ran "ping 192.168.1.1" then I got "from 192.168.1.9 icmp_seq=2 Destination Host Unreachable" for four lines and then after ping: sendmsg: No buffer space avaialable | [17:59] |
| jfw: | the no buffer space thing is odd, does make me wonder about the driver or hardware. Maybe do some looking through dmesg for clues related to eth0 | [18:04] |
| jfw: | anyone else watching have ideas at this point? I'm running low | [18:04] |
| whaack: | I see "eth0: no IPv6 routers present" in dmesg | [18:10] |
| jfw: | that's normal (for an ipv6-loaded kernel) | [18:13] |
| jfw: | something in there should name the chipset/driver which could be an avenue of research. | [18:15] |
| jfw: | I'm going afk; might be one of those times to break on this, do more reading, come back later with fresh mind | [18:17] |
| whaack: | getenforce was set to Enforcing, I Switched it to Permissive and restarted my connection, but that did not help | [18:17] |
| whaack: | yup i'm going to put this down until tomorrow | [18:17] |
| whaack: | thanks for the suggestions | [18:17] |
| jfw: | ahh ok. Well that'll avoid other troubles at any rate. | [18:17] |
| jfw: | iirc 'setenforce' writes to filesystem and so is persistent across boots | [18:18] |
| jfw: | and you're welcome. | [18:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (97h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (97h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (93h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (93h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:30] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Not too productive a day. I felt quite tired starting around 3:30pm, not sure why – i've been getting 8h+ sleep consistently. (minus the night of the fiesta, but that was almost a week ago) Anyways, I went through more of the cl-irc source. I am fairly certain I found a bug pertaining to handling unknown replies from the server. A simple patch should make my bot gracefully ignore+log a message that it can't parse inste | [23:11] |
| whaack: | ad of disconnecting the nick that received the message from all its channels. | [23:11] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: Completed my saltmine hours, and did my writing / Spanish study. I went a little under time on the 2h i had dedicated to 'setting up my computer.' Tomorrow I will publish a plan for setting up software on my new machine. | [00:16] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-22#1015820 << to update, I got this straightened out. At least they were quick about it | [00:31] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 23:30:28 lobbes: At least it is almost start of business in Malaysia so I ought to be able to get a hold of a human soon.. ugh | [00:31] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (136h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (136h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015809 – what doubts exactly? spell them out, maybe there is something to them or maybe it highlights a different trouble. | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 20:38:17 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015800 – I have my doubts but maybe I'll try it some time. | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015811 – ah, the way you said it earlier it sounded like you did precisely some #t catchup; don't you have exactly that in plan somewhere too anyway/ | [03:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 20:46:09 jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015801 – while I read some #t log following a reference, I did not do the methodical catchup that was planned. Thus I did not have log to summarize today so returned to previous article plans. (Or am I misunderstanding that summary assignment?) | [03:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 17:47:49 jfw: I find I was not very productive yesterday. While I got a fair amount of reading in, I believe I used this in part as avoidance of getting started on writing; then there was stupidity worshipping in the same vein; and snowballing by not wanting to admit failure there thus not getting to other priorities either. | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015817 – glad to hear it; but myeah, that's exactly the sort of expected nonsense otherwise. | [03:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 00:31:08 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-22#1015820 << to update, I got this straightened out. At least they were quick about it | [03:46] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-21 diana_coman: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-20#1951637 – ugh, I have them on my list & contacted them via email but they must-account (though they did at least say they weren't all that bothered about actual address iirc). | [03:46] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 23:30:28 lobbes: At least it is almost start of business in Malaysia so I ought to be able to get a hold of a human soon.. ugh | [03:46] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (131h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (131h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: trying to spell out that doubt then – I would not be "fooled" by setting up task B: I'd know it's a ploy to make task A seem more attractive by comparison; or if I did see B as truly urgent, I'd end up all the more glum for having both on the plate but not touch A because B was more important. | [11:15] |
| jfw: | and yes, catchup is a big thing in the plan. | [11:18] |
| dorion: | jfw how goes today ? | [12:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, you don't seem to quite get the idea though: it's not even meant to "fool", no, and it's not about more important either. | [12:21] |
| dorion: | jfw putting a bit of our phone call last night in public, your last couple updates read to me like you're being a bit hard on yourself. | [12:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 17:47:49 jfw: I find I was not very productive yesterday. While I got a fair amount of reading in, I believe I used this in part as avoidance of getting started on writing; then there was stupidity worshipping in the same vein; and snowballing by not wanting to admit failure there thus not getting to other priorities either. | [12:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:31:43 jfw: I also let myself get worked up / stressed yesterday from being again behind on my plan. And hesitated to speak up along the way because of… perhaps some shame at how slow things were going plus a vain hope that I'd somehow still get it all in. | [12:22] |
| dorion: | I don't question that you're being honest, but seems like your focusing too much on the struggles and losing sight of the big picture. | [12:22] |
| dorion: | people are still getting caught up with what you've published these last months and you still have gems yet unpublished, e.g. gales scheme. | [12:22] |
| dorion: | I read the wtf part of diana_coman's comment to me about stressing meaning everyone here ought to take it into consideration. | [12:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:58:18 diana_coman: no need to *get to the stress* even, wtf. | [12:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: *are* you getting all that glum there? | [12:23] |
| dorion: | there's a mountain range of work for everyone here that's going to take months and years to get through and you can't expect to be on 100 every week/day/hour/minute. | [12:24] |
| dorion: | so try on being patient and shift to setting yourself up so that if you don't wanna do xyz or one day, do abc to make the day positive and keep yourself positive and not stressed and come back to xyz when ready. if that means xyz is going to miss your estimate, talk about it, change the estimate if needed, calm yourself and get to it. | [12:24] |
| dorion: | also, you're often more ready than you think you are, the mind can play tricks and quiets down once you actually start. | [12:25] |
| dorion: | in various performances they call it butterflies, sports is what I'm most familiar with. you're in your head imagining the game before you're in it and can get off to a shaky start. but once you settle into the game you stop thinking about it and find the flow. | [12:25] |
| dorion: | fin | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: listen to your manager there! | [12:25] |
| dorion: | and serendipitously | [12:26] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-01-23 mircea_popescu: being smart and having interesting work are the only cure to writer's block yet found or ever liable to be known | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | also, valid for everyone really: while I do pay attention to you to figure out way more than you say, it *does* work way better and it does help *a lot* if you actually provide feedback too rather than waiting for me to know it all. | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | needs to go but will be back later to add to this. | [12:29] |
| dorion: | diana_coman plus the opportunity cost of you reading between the lines saves your cycles for even higher quality feedback/insights. | [12:30] |
| dorion: | hasta luego. | [12:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015845 – part of his strong arm is seeing negatives/mitigating risks – doesn't mean he hasn't helped me see positives where I was focusing on negatives – but sometimes he expects from his weak arm feats his strong arm can do. | [12:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:23:01 diana_coman: jfw: *are* you getting all that glum there? | [12:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015515 – pretty much hits the nail on the head. back in 2015 I was reading the logs knowing it was important but drinking through a fire hose barely knowing wtf was going on. our friendship gained momentum by going for golden hour walks where he'd explain wonders like static linking to me, lol. | [12:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:49:42 diana_coman: I guess dorion goes for the scan, you go for the deep dive, on average it balances out all right over some cervezas or something, there's that possibility too. | [12:46] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015493 – the mentions are a starting point to cut to the chase. if ~others~ think you've missed important context, I'm sure they'll link you. | [12:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:35:40 jfw: dorion suggested prioritizing that by search for mentions. I suppose I've hesitated on that too because I worry I'd still miss too much context | [12:50] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (126h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (126h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015858 – linked at the root with not being all that comfortable with handling uncertainty | [15:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:38:26 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015845 – part of his strong arm is seeing negatives/mitigating risks – doesn't mean he hasn't helped me see positives where I was focusing on negatives – but sometimes he expects from his weak arm feats his strong arm can do. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015862 – dorion do note though that this has its downside too in that you are shifting some costs on those others and taken to that extreme as a usual thing it's not a great thing either. | [15:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:50:24 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015493 – the mentions are a starting point to cut to the chase. if ~others~ think you've missed important context, I'm sure they'll link you. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | as everywhere, some balance works better really | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what was your writing/reading plan today and how did that go? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015837 – to flesh this out some more: dragging your feet on getting started on something is still a signal (others call it at times laziness, plenty of ways to call it too) | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:21:51 diana_coman: jfw: hm, you don't seem to quite get the idea though: it's not even meant to "fool", no, and it's not about more important either. | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-05 16:08:46 diana_coman: laziness is essentially just a signal like many others. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | if you interpreted that as simply "I hate what I need to do for this" | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | rather than "I need to sort out something else first in order to be able to start on this" | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | then the answer to that is a straightforward escalation without any pretense | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | perceptions/projections of the sort "I don't like it" are relative, there's no escape to that part | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | hence the if you don't like that, here's worse so that you'll like it | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | it is true however that the above will work *only* if you interpreted the signal correctly in the first place | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | so indeed if you got that initial part wrong, then the problem is different and therefore the solution to it will be different too | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hence, it's worth indeed to have first another open minded look at the signal, sure; so – what is it you got stuck on? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | (re "ploy" and all that, note that there's no fooling, just using the existing mechanism quite on purpose; if you want a practical example of that, do that simple experiment with temperature: get some water at room temperature, some hotter and some colder; keep for a while one hand in the cold water, one in the hotter; then put both (one at a time for less confusing direct reading) in the room temperature water and see how one … | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | … reports it "cold" and the other "warm" – while you even know why and how and everything, did the hands get "fooled" or not? the perception is what it is and gets reported as such regardless of what higher-level thinking says) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | the above could be again restated as the older "get over yourself", sure, but I think it's way better to get *on with* yourself simply. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why /since when does blogging *require* emacs? | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well of course blogging does not require emacs explicitly…but it requires some editor and that is my editor of choice | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | also, it doesn't even require a graphics stack but if you mean for pictures, then at least add to the list imagemagick or gimp or feh – whatever you plan to use to process the pictures. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that may be, but not a reason to mix up the enumeration like that; make up your mind whether you enumerate the *sort of things you need* or your particular preferences and stick to it for the whole of one sentence at least ffs. | [16:13] |
| whaack: | ok noted, that was lazy writing | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | it is; and it makes for nauseous reading. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re guide for installing on centos, the fedora guide is closest basically. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | at which point I realise I never got to write-up the notes re client on centos, huh. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015869 – right you are. to be clear, I didn't mean it should be a habit, but worth testing out as a starting point for the sake of getting caught up this time. the read every #o line was a point that blocked him from submitting back in october and I don't think he, and perhaps anyone else, regrets he didn't get 100\% context. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 15:33:52 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015862 – dorion do note though that this has its downside too in that you are shifting some costs on those others and taken to that extreme as a usual thing it's not a great thing either. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | I also said it knowing him and that he would still get context around those mentions. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | yes, he needs to practice some lighter first-pass too, for sure | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re installing an image processor. I plan to install a graphics stack. I will need it for eulora anyways. We discussed this prior. | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 16:37:46 diana_coman: whaack: for reading blogs you wouldn't need graphics absolutely, no; that being said though, you DO need ONE station with graphics, lol | [16:21] |
| whaack: | and okay for eulora I will start with the fedora guide | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: btw, it was a pleasure to read your answer; and yes, you certainly and visibly are growing into the roles indeed; there is some more to be said on the integration part, hopefully we'll get to that soon/in a few days too. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | (sadly not today though, sorry.) | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: Sunday the 27th though doesn't fit my calendar though, lol; you did this in the plan/review before so maybe check your calendar mon/sun thing; it's either Sunday 26th or Monday 27th, isn't it. | [16:31] |
| jfw: | caught up here, contemplating | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: take your time, I'll be around for quite a while still. | [16:33] |
| jfw: | dorion: appreciated both the call and the approx. restatement now for closer consideration. | [16:34] |
| dorion: | diana_coman fuck, lol. and you're right it's the second time in as many weeks. i miscounted in head calendar rather than issuing April 2020 Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30. sunday the 26th it'll be. |
[16:40] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015843 – as I understand it, stress is an effect, not cause – reducing it involves reasonable expectations & plans, working productively, and communicating | [16:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:22:59 dorion: I read the wtf part of diana_coman's comment to me about stressing meaning everyone here ought to take it into consideration. | [16:40] |
| jfw: | (not meaning to imply you said otherwise, just stating my own thinking there) | [16:41] |
| jfw: | so I guess what gets to me is that I'm trying to do all those and still dropping things | [16:43] |
| jfw: | not expecting to hit 100\% every day, but it's been more like two weeks at 50\% and was shaping up to be a third | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you count in there the fact that "trying to do all those" is currently yet-another-something-new and therefore a *task* in itself that you are taking on? | [16:44] |
| jfw: | hah, I suppose not | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, lack of practice with failure can at times bite too, lolz. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but more to the point here, there is that set yourself up for best results at all times, it's possible, worth it and no shame at all, quite the opposite. | [16:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 14:16:13 diana_coman: whaack: hm, you'll have to ask a better question really; exactly as it says: how you set yourself up in/for a situation does matter too. | [16:47] |
| jfw: | re failure – oh I've had practice, but perhaps was rusty! http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015845 – not too much thus far, I'm still getting back up to try again, and aware I'm getting plenty done still | [16:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 12:23:01 diana_coman: jfw: *are* you getting all that glum there? | [16:49] |
| jfw: | For today I decided to start with something lighter and try writing later (just not all-the-way-later like previously) | [16:50] |
| jfw: | got through a couple days of my #t backlog so I suppose I can do a summary on that | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what/where/why are you stuck with the writing now though? | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | aha; is that a problem / not something you want to start on either or what? | [16:51] |
| jfw: | I'm not certain I am stuck now. Yesterday there was the photo-pile as discussed | [16:52] |
| jfw: | which "that" – the reading or the summarizing? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | for that you'll just have to budget somewhere explicitly "filter photos" , there's no way around it ever ; but it doesn't have to count as "writing" since it's not really, either. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: both/whichever is a problem, lol | [16:53] |
| jfw: | the reading doesn't seem to be a problem, it had just kept getting pre-empted. Hence starting with that today.' | [16:53] |
| jfw: | as to summarizing – well I'll find out soon | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, all right then; and yeah, switch things around during the day if/when/as needed, what; that being said – hm, wasn't it supposed to be jfw-on-irc from about 7 utc rather than 8? lolz. | [16:55] |
| jfw: | I'll get back on that. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | also, how is that older getting back to daylight schedule and proper sleep at night? | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | didn't dig out the link for ref but it's in one of your plans/reviews of last year. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ is for you. | [16:57] |
| jfw: | Went well enough at that time; travel threw it off and been slowly recovering from there | [16:58] |
| jfw: | well not much at first, perhaps firefighting-mode. But more recently improving. And at least not my previous tendency to push it further. | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it did seem to be off again, hence my question really; but if you say you are aware and moving it in the right direction, good. | [17:00] |
| jfw: | (ah, not fire-fighting entirely too, there were a number of late nights out) | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: does this explanation make sense to you? | [17:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 15:46:28 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Jan-2020#1015837 – to flesh this out some more: dragging your feet on getting started on something is still a signal (others call it at times laziness, plenty of ways to call it too) | [17:01] |
| jfw: | It signals that there's, how would you say it… unmet prerequisites for doing the thing? | [17:02] |
| jfw: | well that's one possibility at least and one needs to ask questions to understand the signal | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: in a very broad sense for "prerequisites", yes; but figuring out what sort those are is pretty much the key and in some cases they can simply be of the sort "this *seems* too ugly/difficult/I-don't-like-it" | [17:04] |
| jfw: | right, dorion's butterflies | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | yes but you know, each with their own species of butterflies, lolz | [17:08] |
| jfw: | and some migratory too no doubt. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | that can be I guess though I can't say I saw much of that; it's more the other way around if anything – ie ignoring your own because it works for another to ignore his might backfire (because not quite the same otherwise, eh) | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the work on the wallet thing going this week? | [17:11] |
| jfw: | know thy own butterflies then. | [17:11] |
| jfw: | Wallet's going pretty well | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to hear it and no reason for glum then, that's both a crucial and not-easy part! | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | indeed re butterflies, since they are part of you and still best to get along very well with yourself, lol. | [17:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-23 16:00:42 diana_coman: the above could be again restated as the older "get over yourself", sure, but I think it's way better to get *on with* yourself simply. | [17:14] |
| jfw: | the 2x time estimate factor I put in since initial plan has indeed been needed so far, and some time goes to reviewing the code & fixing minor mistakes, but no major problems come up yet. | [17:15] |
| jfw: | agreed on best to get along with oneself! | [17:15] |
| jfw: | from earlier: the water temperature perception example makes sense: the different levels of thinking | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: to add something concrete, I'm known to have taken the time (not all that little either though very concentrated) while otherwise drowning in 1001 ugly and complicated things to do, to …translate a whole poem; the thing is – I needed that as disconnect and once I got that out, I worked better on the rest as well. | [17:26] |
| jfw: | Not a short poem either I see. Interesting | [17:30] |
| dorion: | ofc, I now recall that trilema about butterflies, lmao. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, appropriate. | [17:36] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (121h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (121h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:29] |
| whaack: | trinque: I have a problem with my bot's sbcl process using too much memory. I noticed that loading quicklisp alone puts ~70MB of junk in the environment. So I am considering avoiding quicklisp attempting to load ircbot, cl-irc, and all subsequent dependencies using a series of calls to the (load "/path/to/file.lisp") function. I learned | [18:36] |
| whaack: | about the function (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file) . This prints out the paths to all the files loaded in the dependency tree. I ran (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file) after running (ql:quickload :fleetbot) (which depends on cl-irc, cl-postgres, ircbot, and postmodern.) I saw many paths in the manifest file that were not part of fleetbot's dependency tree. It seems quicklisp loads everything in local-projects by default. This may be what | [18:36] |
| whaack: | constitutes the '70MB of junk.’ Anyways, I have not yet found a way to load only what I need from the manifest file. So I’m currently planning on purging my quicklisp dir so it only contains the source necessary for loading fleetbot. If you have any other suggestions on how to reduce my program’s memory footprint, please let me know. | [18:36] |
| jfw: | whaack: oh hey I had left a comment re that: should be able to skip quicklisp altogether by using asdf directly | [18:43] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm i missed it, where is the comment? | [18:45] |
| jfw: | ztkfg, on your latest | [18:46] |
| whaack: | ah okay, i was looking for it on the above linked article, alright I'll look into using asdf directly | [18:47] |
| jfw: | background, in particular http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-04-01#1444010 | [19:31] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-04-01 phf: really, asdf lets you do "load all my source" quite trivially as long as you packed it into a package ahead of time | [19:31] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-04-01 asciilifeform: it is solved by ~not doing it~ | [19:31] |
| whaack: | argh it looks like asdf is the memory hogging culprit, not quicklisp itself | [20:31] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (117h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (117h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Comp build was a success, but it ate into TheFleet time. I did my writing prep for tomorrow, but did not complete my Spanish study / 1hr reading session. I will do a little of both before going to sleep. | [01:02] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (160h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (160h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, read the log on the os install adventures. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you finish that mpwp bot prep that was due yest iirc? | [04:20] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (155h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (155h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: It is moving along but no, not 100\% done yet. | [10:14] |
| lobbes: | I kept running into oddities relating to my newer version of mysql on the production box (subtly different sql syntax, having to detect and then turn off the various shiny new 'features' that were causing errors). Managed to figure it out though and now I got an instance of mp-wp and the bot running on target machine. | [10:14] |
| lobbes: | Still need to start testing (which includes testing the archived log dump i give MP) though. | [10:14] |
| lobbes: | bbl, mines | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | hopefully you did document/ keep notes re those tweaks required for different mysql versions. | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahahah, I do hope you wrote that to el torero escamillo! | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, it might make better Spanish practice than becky g, lolz. | [12:12] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (150h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (150h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha no, it was written inbetween watching videos of matadors getting gor'd. | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: see, learn to set yourself up better, what. | [13:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: not sure I understand what you mean ^ | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, you'll have to ask a better question really; exactly as it says: how you set yourself up in/for a situation does matter too. | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | (yes, I had a laugh but still, there is something to it too). | [14:16] |
| whaack: | ah okay the confusion was that i thought you were addressing my point of watching videos of the matadors getting gor'd. I started the article writing in my more common reflection style "why was I this stupid?" but then decided I wanted to write something different than usual. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, addressing the difference between choosing matadors getting gor'd vs el torero escamillo, you know? and it goes further than just the music/video or the writing or this specific instance even. | [14:20] |
| whaack: | alright. i see some similarities even between choosing to go in the bull ring and choosing to watch a matador getting gor'd. essentially they are both base activities that appear appealing/exciting that others are eager to draw you into (whether the others are 'amigos' or youtube's algo.) | [14:31] |
| diana_coman: | while searching for that php bug thread, I found the pickpocket thread I couldn't find yesterday. | [14:32] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-03-21 diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-03-21#1903897 -> expert pickpocket is first of all expert in choosing victim; that being said, in Bucharest it was the 601 bus (always overflowing) and/or buses/trams from the North Station (bc. people with luggage in a hurry to get on the bus); this doesn't mean that it's not obvious and avoidable but assuming you want to bait them for the xp, those are easy spots. | [14:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:45:24 diana_coman: what BingoBoingo says above ; but more to the point: pickpockets do not randomly choose targets (or they won't last long really) | [14:32] |
| diana_coman: | dunno, if you wanted to watch something getting gor'd, I'd have say at least go for the bull getting it, not the matador, you see? | [14:37] |
| dorion: | lol. | [14:38] |
| diana_coman: | but yes, whenever you "go with the flow" set generically like that, you are pretty much going into a ~trap by definition; going with the flow can be fine but only *after* you know it so well that you go more into/out of it as you wish rather than being carried on/by it. | [14:39] |
| whaack: | lol well the process was -> Hm after frantically running from a bull I wonder how professionals deal with them -> Searches "Expert Matador" -> Youtube returns "Watch Matador get killed by bull!" -> Oh that's interesting, watches video | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah, is that "expert" you think? | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | lmao | [14:40] |
| whaack: | also watched, "bull jumps into stands and chases crowd!" | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: despite the toreador + name, the whole carmen is usually performed in French. | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol! why u so focused on the wrong side!! | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | I'd have thought you had enough live experience with that part too. | [14:42] |
| whaack: | lol i watched both. and i enjoyed seeing a matador gracefully handle a bull. i could see how one could get into watching the sport. | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | well, anything *well done* can be beautiful to watch, sure. | [14:44] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks for the tip. downloaded, but waiting for lolz to subside prior to listening. | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | np; and not like there's any rush with that or anything. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | since I'm at it and specifically re escamillo part, my recommendation would be to find it sang by nicolai ghiaurov. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | for the female side I'm partial to angela gheorghiu (and she has excellent diction) but then she's Romanian :p | [15:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks! I still have a lot of training of the french, yet. | [15:16] |
| jfw: | I find I was not very productive yesterday. While I got a fair amount of reading in, I believe I used this in part as avoidance of getting started on writing; then there was stupidity worshipping in the same vein; and snowballing by not wanting to admit failure there thus not getting to other priorities either. | [17:47] |
| jfw: | Today I haven't published either: I gathered and sorted through my vacation photos, culling from 707 down to 317, but this took quite some time and now I must return to the other work. | [17:50] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (145h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (145h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:29] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, one way to make all that avoidance work for you is to set it up explicitly (need to do task A you hate? cool, set up task B that you hate even more!) | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | but anyway, why didn't you make the summary of what you read? | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | re photos, the culling will have to end up in that bucket of "either it gets done within this much SET time or ALL of them get published ffs"; ofc, it helps if you choose that set time wisely but anyways, can't then spend a day picking photos either. | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | (I'll admit though that the filtering-cost is one reason why I tend to take few photos rather than many; on top of a whole pile of other reasons but anyways.) | [19:08] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-22#1015774 << I did! Very detailed notes I'm happy to report. | [19:37] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 14:18:04 diana_coman: hopefully you did document/ keep notes re those tweaks required for different mysql versions. | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | Of course now Shinjiru is pulling some shenanigans. They "suspended" my service for nonpayment even though my payments to them have been automatic each month and I have the receipt that I indeed already paid for January… I responded to the email saying "wtf" which… created a ticket which since their offices were closed couldn't be handled! | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | At least it is almost start of business in Malaysia so I ought to be able to get a hold of a human soon.. ugh | [19:37] |
| lobbes: | bbl food | [19:41] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015800 – I have my doubts but maybe I'll try it some time. | [20:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 19:04:59 diana_coman: jfw: heh, one way to make all that avoidance work for you is to set it up explicitly (need to do task A you hate? cool, set up task B that you hate even more!) | [20:38] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Jan-2020#1015801 – while I read some #t log following a reference, I did not do the methodical catchup that was planned. Thus I did not have log to summarize today so returned to previous article plans. (Or am I misunderstanding that summary assignment?) | [20:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-22 19:05:17 diana_coman: but anyway, why didn't you make the summary of what you read? | [20:46] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (141h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (141h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Jan 2020
| whaack: | jfw: Hm yeah, I don't plan to switch languages mid project. That said maybe I'll try using your client when I setup my new comp | [00:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I went overtime on the Panama article / computer planning so I did not make too much distance with TheFleet (I created an outline for a plan article.) I did about 30 minutes of reading and no Spanish. The computer planning article will be published early tomorrow, it just needs a final review. Then after I publish the compl plan article I'm going to get right ahead to using it and build the machine. | [00:42] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (184h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (184h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [03:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re computer sounds fine. | [04:15] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (179h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (179h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [08:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [08:29] |
| whaack: | dorion: reading your article w/ all its double rainbows, cigars and suits on the beach, exotic drinks, and surfing was a nice way to start my day | [12:15] |
| whaack: | and btw, i think i'm going to visit Panama again in 3 months for my next visa run. there are some flights from Liberia (shaves a cool 6-10hrs off the trip each way) I can get if I don't buy the tickets last minute | [12:32] |
| dorion: | whaack cheers x 2! | [12:33] |
| dorion: | whaack i did have fun writing the article, so glad you enjoyed reading. | [12:49] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (174h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (174h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [13:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [13:29] |
| whaack: | so it looks like i was mistaken in thinking i need an auxillary power cable for the PCIe slot graphics card. Am I correct in thinking that it's possible the 8 pin 'CPU' power supplies power to the PCIe slot as well? | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: quite the whirlwind of fun in hawaii by the sounds of it, good for you! | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why don't you check the spec for your components, it should say exactly, no? | [16:02] |
| whaack: | is checking | [16:05] |
| whaack: | yes it must, because there is no listed connector for the PCIe auxiliary cable | [16:07] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, now back to the whirlwind of fun here :) | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, the whirlwind-you is welcome of course but otherwise here things be of the boring type! | [16:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:46:29 diana_coman: jfw: glad to know it! only boring stuff around here really, testing, going to sleep when tired, speaking up when needing to communicate, seriously, boring. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw that part with the "1 week sleep deprivation" terrible exercise got me laughing the most | [16:16] |
| billymg: | whaack: i think they are different cables/connectors, though both are 8-pin and look very similar. i would research a bit more what's coming out of your PSU before attempting to connect it to the PCIe card | [16:16] |
| billymg: | it's been a while since i've messed with any heavy duty video cards though, my most recent FX build has a dinky GPU that's powered only by the slot itself | [16:17] |
| whaack: | billymg: ^ right, my q was whether or not the GPU was powered by the slot itself, and that is the case | [16:18] |
| billymg: | ah ok | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: your question was not that clear as you just stated above though, ugh. | [16:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I didn't format the question as "can the GPU be powered by the slot itself"? Because I thought that on other motherboards the auxillary PCIe power cable plugged into the motherboard and thus the GPU still would get its power through the PCIe slot. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | iirc at least some higher end GPUs might need the auxiliary PCIe cable as they basically don't get enough power just through the slot | [16:22] |
| whaack: | i see, so the cable would plug directly into the GPU | [16:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: From what I understand if the GPU needs it. Usually there will be a place to plug a cable. Otherwise many GPUs can get all the power they find useful from the slot. | [16:57] |
| whaack: | successfully made it to the bios. CPU Freq: 4k MHz, Mem Frequency : 1.6kMHz, Mem Size: 16,384MB, CPU Temp: 40-50 C, both hard drives detected | [17:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | Congrats | [17:24] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (169h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (169h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [18:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [18:29] |
| whaack: | BingoBoing: thx! | [18:39] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo* | [18:39] |
| whaack: | installing centos6 with sha256sum = 422af57b493b8af49d485885a730c5a1d955f803fac85aa51311c393168b9080 atm | [18:40] |
| jfw: | whaack: from the remote hash table of I take it this is CentOS-6.9-x86_64-minimal.iso | [18:46] |
| whaack: | yes | [18:46] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm, i am prompted the q what type of media contains the installation image. my options are: "Local cd/dvd, hard drive, nfs directory, URL" I am installing off a usb, not quite sure what to pick. | [18:51] |
| whaack: | (looks like hard drive was the right choice) | [18:55] |
| jfw: | woulda been one of the first two for sure. | [19:03] |
| whaack: | yeah my guess was local cd/dvd, but that was wrong | [19:04] |
| whaack: | weird, the install failed, and now it wont let me boot from the usb again | [19:12] |
| whaack: | (error was "an error was encountered while formatting device / format failed: 1") | [19:13] |
| whaack: | now i have the option to boot from the SSD from the failed install, but it just takes me to a blinking cursor screen | [19:21] |
| jfw: | hah, did you fdisk the usb drive instead of the ssd like everyone seems to do these days? | [19:22] |
| jfw: | ( http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014943 ) | [19:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 12:57:16 dorion: lobbes thanks for the updates, glad you're making progress. one point I'll alert you on is when you get to partitioning the disk with the installer, double check which /dev/sdX is the install media and which is the internal, target disk. | [19:23] |
| whaack: | jfw: lol i think i set those right…but looks like maybe not | [19:24] |
| jfw: | strange error though, why would something be trying to format a device while booting | [19:26] |
| jfw: | oh possibly I misread and that was from when the install failed; in that case got any more detail on "wont let me boot from the usb"? | [19:28] |
| jfw: | but yeah first suggestion is to sanity-check the usb from other machine, rewrite the .iso if needed | [19:29] |
| whaack: | jfw: so when I first booted from the usb all I did was plug in the USB and turn on the machine, and it took me right to the centos6 installer | [19:29] |
| whaack: | now it takes me to a blinking cursor page. I did sanity-check the usb and rewrote the .iso, but i'm getting the same problem | [19:30] |
| jfw: | ah so you had it too easy the first time :) Found how to get to the BIOS boot menu? | [19:30] |
| whaack: | i will triple-sanity check rn though, because a botched usb is the only thing that makes sense | [19:31] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes I can get to the BIOS boot menu, but within there i have no option to select the usb | [19:31] |
| jfw: | dare I ask, is there UEFI involved here? | [19:31] |
| whaack: | There's Boot Mode Selection, with three options, "UEFI and Legacy" "Legacy Only" "UEFI Only" . right now "UEFI and Legacy" are selected | [19:33] |
| jfw: | oof, so 10x the potential problems then. IIRC (possibly from spyked's research) there's no clearly established meaning to any of those choices. I'd expect "legacy only" would be most promising | [19:35] |
| whaack: | derp, my problem may have been a mechanical error. i have one of those shit usbs that can hide their head like a turtle. so i may have retracted the head when i thought i plugged it in | [19:38] |
| whaack: | alright here we go round 2, this time running "install or update an existing system" instead of the "install system with video driver" option | [19:40] |
| whaack: | hm. now i'm given 4 options for the q: 'what partition and directory on that partition holds the installation image for centos?: /dev/sda1, /dev/sda2, /dev/sdb1, /dev/sdc1' | [19:42] |
| whaack: | i'm pretty sure its sdc1, i guessed that and was taken to the centos install screen | [19:43] |
| jfw: | the unstated question is "how would I check on that"? | [19:43] |
| whaack: | maybe if i unplugged and replugged the usb one option would disappear/reappear | [19:44] |
| jfw: | get a shell on another TTY, run fdisk -l /dev/sdX, check the size/partition layout, usually that's enough to figure it out | [19:44] |
| jfw: | I would not recommend replugging, not sure if the root FS is mounted from it or what. | [19:45] |
| jfw: | dmesg is your friend too | [19:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:57:45 dorion: lobbes cool, dmesg is a good friend to have :) | [19:47] |
| whaack: | i'm not sure exactly what you meant by get a shell on another tty. are you saying there's a way i could connect to my machine from another computer? | [19:48] |
| whaack: | dang, same error | [19:49] |
| jfw: | whaack: https://www.linux.org/threads/virtual-terminals.4135/ | [19:49] |
| whaack: | hm but that requires me to already have linux installed, i am not there yet. anyways, it seems my problem was i was trying to install on both my ssd and hdd. | [19:53] |
| jfw: | the installer itself is linux, what | [19:54] |
| jfw: | did you intend to install on both? should certainly be possible, like / on ssd and /home on hdd or something | [19:56] |
| whaack: | ah yeah for some reason i had in my head i was locked into the installer sequence. alright i finished the install but i will try to run the installer again and switch to a shell on another tty | [19:57] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm i can't get into a terminal with alt-f2 or any other alt function combination | [19:59] |
| jfw: | the ctrl-alt-fN, possibly the single biggest distinction between Linux and Windows in regards to whether human controls machine or vice versa. | [19:59] |
| jfw: | if it's a GUI installer, might need to add the ctrl. | [19:59] |
| whaack: | had to click num lock | [20:00] |
| whaack: | the other terminals though don't allow any input | [20:00] |
| jfw: | no login prompts? possibly centos installer is dumb like that then. | [20:00] |
| whaack: | i just have a blinking cursor | [20:00] |
| whaack: | anyways, i got centos6 installed on my ssd and arrived at a terminal. now i have to figure out how to connect to the network + start installing drivers, but all that is for tomorrow/later this week. | [20:12] |
| jfw: | cool. The 'minimal' install is indeed quite minimal if I recall – might not even have man pages and syslog for example. You'll have some yum installing to do. | [20:14] |
| whaack: | yup, no man pages | [20:18] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (165h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (165h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/jfw-review-week-of-jan-13-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Jan 13 2020 | [02:11] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-20-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 20 2020 | [02:19] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/rmd-review-jan-11-19th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 11-19th, 2020 | [03:34] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/rmd-plan-jan-20-24th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Jan 20-24th, 2020 | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you do like living dangerously, don't you. | [04:26] |
| dorion: | diana_coman while I've definitely taken my share of risk – some smart, some dumb – I know I can improve the balance of the ratio in favor of more smart risk. | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: some unbalance in that direction may be even better! but yes, setting yourself up for less dumb risk will do wonders and on more fronts than one really. | [11:54] |
| dorion: | for sure. set up to let compound interest of smart risk accrue. | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: note the difference there between your stated "more" (risk, be it smart) and my "less" (dumb risk); while "more of smart and less of dumb" may be the theoretical ideal, the practice is best served by focusing on the "less" first; it also makes for more calm and less stress really. | [14:50] |
| dorion: | diana_coman makes sense++ | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so how's that Hawaii article going wrt to the current deadline for it? | [15:08] |
| dorion: | diana_coman good. not sure if it'll be out before I sleep tonight, but good chance it will. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | iirc deadline is tomorrow so that sounds fine, glad to hear it; and no need to rush/skip the final review either. | [15:18] |
| dorion: | yes, deadline is tomorrow. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why were the bots kicked in the first place anyway? | [15:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: this i have not yet investigated. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | when you say they were kicked do you mean you looked and ~all were kicked or do you mean you saw some kicked and so "bots were kicked"? | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, before "fixing" it, you *have to* investigate what the fuck the problem is in the first place, you know? | [15:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I looked on one VM and I discovered I was banned from ~all of the 7-8 networks I had connected to. Then I looked into a few networks and saw that my bots had been kicked from channels and were constantly trying to rejoin them. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | hrm, now there's even a sf story for you but finish the odyssey or it'll take longer than it took ulysses by the sounds of it. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the same on other VMs or was there only one connected? | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | this is quite important too because ahem, if you don't figure out and solve it, there's not going to be much systematic anything there. | [15:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was running bots on two VMs and iirc yes the same thing happened on the other VM (checking now) | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | there was my previous clear statement re if kicked let the chan be but mk, test run and all that. | [15:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:41:24 diana_coman: let it join, what; collect data for 1 month and then see; if it gets kicked from a chan, let the chan be, not like I want to force anyone now out of the hole they enjoy, what. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any reason given on first kick? because the ban makes sense afterwards given the kick/rejoin dance, ofc. | [15:42] |
| whaack: | I just checked, on the other VM I was banned from 3 networks w/ errors: "ERR_YOUREBANNEDCREEP: shire.digitalirc.org snup97 "You are not welcome on this network. G-Lined: join/part spam. Email https://tickets.digitalirc.org for more information."" and "NOTICE: Defiant.GeekShed.net snup97 "*** You are banned from GeekShed (You are banned from GeekShed for 8d! Reason: Malicious bots, clones and drones are prohibited by the Network TO | [15:44] |
| whaack: | S." and "NOTICE: spinnaker.p2pchat.net roco44 "*** You are banned from P2PChat (either stay on or off (3 days))"" | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | so hm, join/part spam aka…connection flicker?? | [15:44] |
| whaack: | no I think the join/part spam is more likely from the kick/join dance | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | no data re kicks themselves? | [15:45] |
| whaack: | there should be data .. i have to dig for it | [15:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe the bots need girl names and an Eliza plugged into them? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | hands whaack a shovel. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: eh, I'm not (yet) trying to take over all chans too! | [15:46] |
| whaack: | lol | [15:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, something to do call/response | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | they can certainly say hello but I doubt that's the issue really | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | and at any rate, it's not like all networks are invited to dump all their issues for whaack to have what to address. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The query "select message, networkname from irclog where irc_message_type='CL-IRC:IRC-KICK-MESSAGE';" gave me the following results from vm1 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=VvJp and from vm2 http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Igiq | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | "You have been found co-channeling in one or more blacklisted channels" | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | oh the lulz | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | but not that much variety, hm. | [16:04] |
| whaack: | I notice that it was only from 3 networks that I received kicks. But my fleetlogs show that on one VM i have 4354 disconnects and 4440 joins | [16:04] |
| whaack: | so there is likely something else causing the disconnect/reconnect dance. or i'm getting kicked from channels without receiving an irc-kick-message. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, overall it sounds like you should first understand a bit better just what exactly your bots are doing there and how, really | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: there's so much fun to be had there but you do need to be better at it than their lame efforts, seriously. | [16:06] |
| whaack: | btw, i didn't implement the reconnect-on-kick feature intentionally. with cl-irc you set a nick to have a list of channels, and i found out cl-irc automatically rejoins the nick to a network when kicked. I will have to explicitly remove the channel from the nick's list when it gets kicked. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean by I need to be better at it than their lame efforts? | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, fix so it doesn't reconnect on kick for starters; get to the bottom of that 4354 disconnects vs 4440 joins, if at all possible; add whatever additional logging you need to have full information on hand and preferably timely delivered too; maybe start with a smaller trial that you can monitor more closely to figure out what's going on, if needed | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, their "fighting the oh-noez-spam-not-ours" is from what I see a combination of "oh, you won't answer me???" and that co-channeling lulz; the rest is just repetition really. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | well, unintentional implementation is …. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | and anyways, their bans are for some number of days, can even rotate etc. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | alright I'll take BingoBoingo's advice and see if adding an Eliza-light will help | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | but it's not yet even clear it's worth the effort | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: first of all get to the bottom of the connect/reconnect and kick/not kick, anyway; eliza-light comes afterwards and only if really justified. | [16:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: btw do you have a way you'd like me to select the channels? I sorted by the most popular channels and joined those first…that was not because I thought that was a particularly good idea in the general case – but because I was mostly testing networks that had ~0 activity in anything but the more popular channels | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | it makes sense since otherwise you'd see empty lines anyway so not much gain; that's not a problem there | [16:13] |
| whaack: | ^ alright i'll publish a plan to address the above this evening / tomorrow midday. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is the whole code clear to you now how and why it works and what is going on in there? | [16:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: my code and trinque's irclogger are clear to me. (btw trinque did you look into the reconnect bug I pointed out? I will confirm there's a problem and publish a vpatch for it later this week if I get the time.) how cl-irc handles certain things is a bit of a blackbox. | [16:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:56:08 whaack: trinque: I think I may understand this if you never got around to it. The thread that normally calls ircbot-reconnect is the ircbot-ping-thread. However the ping-thread commits suicide because ircbot-disconnect calls (sb-thread:terminate-thread (ircbot-ping-thread bot)) . So when the ping thread calls ircbot-reconnect after calling ircbot-disconnect it never gets to the ir | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is cl-irc that huge/gnarly that it's a huge project to look and find out how it handles those exact certain things that you don't know about but need? | [16:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no it is comprehensible. 4.5k LOC and there is a lot of handling of portions of the irc protocol i don't need to look into. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then look into it, since you are relying on it for the whole thing. | [16:22] |
| whaack: | (4.5k LOC _and_ from my understanding it does not import any external libraries) | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | let eliza be for the moment; it might be a good idea but it will get evaluated when the problem and its extent are clear, not just slapped on now because "it seems like a good idea" , ugh. | [16:23] |
| whaack: | (ah nvm it does use three – :split-sequence :usocket and :flexi-streams) | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, it did sound rather too good to be true, lol. | [16:24] |
| whaack: | alright, no eliza | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: enough work there to keep you busy ? clear enough so you know what you need to do? | [16:26] |
| whaack: | certainly the former, and yes I think I have a good idea of what to tackle next and how to go about it. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | cool then. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | the other major item in the pipeline today is the plan for my computer | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | anyone else in need of work around here? speak up, there's plenty to pass around! | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: wasn't there some article too? | [16:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yup that is done, just needs to do the final review | [16:29] |
| whaack: | i just need* | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | good then; any trouble re plan for your computer? | [16:30] |
| whaack: | i don't think there should be, but i haven't made a meta plan lol | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, no, no need for that or you'll loop forever in the meta-metas; I simply meant if you needed to clarify anything on that front. | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, although I am not sure how much detail I need to go into for how I go about building the computer. Do I need to spell out how all the cables are going to be laid in what directions + what gets zip tied to what? | [16:32] |
| whaack: | Currently I'm thinking I list all the parts I need to install, what order I install them in, and what items i will need / have available in order to do their install. I also will include any important installation notes for various pieces. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no need for cable-level of detail, no; whenever in such doubt, focus on what the goal of the plan (or whatever it is you are working on) really is | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | that's where everything else should come from; so: what's the goal of this plan of yours? | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The goal is to ensure I have what I need and know what to do in order to execute a timely, safe, and proper build of my computer. | [16:36] |
| whaack: | safe means I don't open up the possibility of breaking something, and proper means I don't make a mistake that requires me to do undo a bunch of work to fix. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then, does that require a list of what gets zip tied and cable directions? (it might or it might not, but it's your decision since you defined the goal of what you need, so ..up to you) | [16:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right…that's why I asked, I'm not so sure. There are certain cables that must be laid out before installing other parts. So I think yes I will have to consider some of the cable layout in my plan. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then consider it, sure; it's *your* plan and it should serve you best, first and foremost. | [16:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | recommends saving zip ties for last. Otherwise there's opportunities for friction as you plug and unplug cables in search of the cleanest routes, the friction being cutting and placing new zip ties. | [16:42] |
| whaack: | ^ noted | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | aha, not a bad idea; and in general, tidying stuff neatly up tends to be at the end precisely because otherwise it might get untidy again before everything is done. | [16:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | You also don't want to be putting any cables under unnecessary tension. Once you're satisfied all cables are plugged in with a comfortable amount of slack, then zip tying can begin. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, nice photos, whaack ! and you basically showed Panama City more than jfw and dorion so far combined, ha! takes a non-local to publish photos of a place, it would seem. | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha that's how it goes I guess. I have ~no photos of NYC. | [18:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | So much more glass and height than Montevideo has. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: more recent former money place I guess. | [18:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Likely. | [18:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect Uruguay's generally less accomodating to height variance requests leading to 10 to 12 storey canyons on a number of streets. | [18:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, my experience here is that the visitors have always come with fresher eyes. It doesn't seem to take much time for the visual landscape anywhere to start feeling normal. | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: if by normal you mean "perpendicular" (to my disposition at times if to nothing else), I'll fully agree to that – it doesn't take much time at all!! lolz | [18:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: By normal I mean, the brain starts applying a "this place is familiar" filter over what they eyes are sending it. There seems to be a window first arriving in a new place where the brain's "Everything in visual range is new!" gets the shutter button on the camera moving. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I got what you meant, just being amused otherwise because despite knowing what you mean, I am – if anything – even less able to take a decent picture of something new than of something more familiar. | [18:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, sometimes things are both new and familiar. The local Afro cultists might leave a dead chicken in a new place, but once you've seen enough chickens left in odd locations… | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | lol, that's one sort of new and familiar, can be. | [18:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's not even surprising anymore either. The flies give it away everytime, because it's almost rare to see flies in Montevideo outside of the specific situation. | [19:02] |
| jfw: | whaack: y'know, if cl-irc turns out to be some kind of eldritch horror, there is also http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/yrc-a-unix-irc-client-genesis/ which fits both irc client and UI in 2.5k lines. The irc parts could quite likely be isolated for use as a bot. Though I don't expect changing languages would be cheap for you at this point. | [21:32] |
| jfw: | or for that matter there's asciilifeform's log bot too, though looks like it's not set up to handle any message types besides ping and privmsg. | [21:48] |
| auctionbot: | S#1077 O=17mn LB=None E=2020-01-29 05:43:03.567830 (189h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from U.S. (Server-A) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | S#1078 O=17mn LB=18mn E=2020-01-29 05:43:42.679910 (189h28) >>> Dell R610 PE Server ships from Uruguay (Server-B) http://blog.mod6.net/2020/01/physical-specifications-for-the-bitcoin-foundations-servers/ | [22:29] |
| auctionbot: | — end of auction list, 18mn total bids — | [22:29] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015350 – heh; listen, get used to *always* look a bit more at whatever you are doing at any given time; I specifically did not say anything about comment/articles numbers there so you have a chance to fix that too on your own steam; but you have to look and consider more than just the exact prod, what! | [04:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 19:32:20 lobbes: jfw: this is a good point, ty. I'll do just that | [04:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015344 – is that a question? lolz. | [04:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 18:01:44 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015339 << yeah, overall I liked the final result but indeed it took me 11 hours (from my estimated 6).. not sure why I'm so slow with writing | [04:41] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 09:09:40 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015311 – that sounds like it took way longer than you expected. | [04:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 19:35:15 lobbes: diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [04:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: are those weekly plans & reviews more useful to you on Fridays in the end or on Sundays or not that useful at all or what? | [10:35] |
| whaack: | so.. fiesta round two was just as bad as the first. One of my phones got pick pocketed, and then there was so much traffic leaving the party that we could not get out of the city until ~6am. rough way to end the vacation but i'm going to get to the review+plan for the week and then begin cranking out articles. | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like the usual "popular entertainment" experience really. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how do you find writing those gbw-node draft articles? | [15:24] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: they've been easy enough, but slow; I find a lot of time going into futzing with referencing, re-reading the code, thinking about what's clear or needs explanation or could use improvement | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, slow as in "I wish this went faster" or slow as in "not worth this much time on it"? | [15:29] |
| jfw: | then that 'futzing with referencing' breaks down into, let's say, the useful part of re-reading / checking that they're justified, and some 'html overhead' part | [15:30] |
| jfw: | I think the effort is worth it for this item though probably not all code I'd post. Also wish it went faster. | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | well, certainly not all the code and not in the same level of detail, sure; there's no "same for everything", no. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | as for faster, it should get faster with practice and/or improvement of process if there's some part that's really just overhead; what's that html overhead anyway? | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | as in writing the html tags or what? | [15:33] |
| jfw: | that, and also finding and testing the #select search terms | [15:35] |
| jfw: | then occasionaly I do get tags / syntax wrong so there's some cycling through save draft / preview / edit | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: uhm; fwiw I tend to write the whole thing as draft in some .txt, tags included and all that; then into mpwp + preview + edit and publish, that's it. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | not sure it's really worth previewing as you go really but anyways, if you'd rather it took less time, find ways that work for you to streamline it. | [15:39] |
| jfw: | I write in a .html first too (gets syntax highlighting); probably need to focus on getting that down to one cycle, yeah. | [15:41] |
| jfw: | maybe looking into editor features to help with tags | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible. | [15:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yup. i learned my lesson twice in a row about avoiding LATAM crowds (which can be extended to crowds in general) | [15:44] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015352 << this makes sense | [15:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 04:25:17 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015350 – heh; listen, get used to *always* look a bit more at whatever you are doing at any given time; I specifically did not say anything about comment/articles numbers there so you have a chance to fix that too on your own steam; but you have to look and consider more than just the exact prod, what! | [15:45] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015354 << I was definitely asking-without asking there. To state it properly: how do I speed up my writing? | [15:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 04:41:06 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015344 – is that a question? lolz. | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, in a few words it would be "through purposeful practice/review/feedback loop" really; but specifically for this instance, how did it go in the end like that since iirc your plan provided for some incremental work on it througout the week and then it ended all up on Friday+spill out on Saturday ? | [15:47] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: there was definitely spill-over. I did about an hour of writing on Wednesday but indeed didn't get started until Friday really | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: why? | [15:48] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'm thinking on this why | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | take your time. | [15:49] |
| lobbes: | I still just put it off I guess. Even though I budgeted the hour for each day I kept thinking 'ah well I'll have plenty of time Thursday in any case'. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: even if you had "plenty of time Thursday in any case" (which predictably, you didn't), the trouble starts with the very framing there: it's not about whether you have "enough time later for this or that" but rather: what did you do actually useful with the time on Monday and Tuesday? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, I can see this framing. I didn't really do anything useful with my time those days besides running an errand or two. I instead just did my usual wasting activities. | [15:55] |
| lobbes: | I find it harder to get started on things after saltmine days in general. Weekends are easier because I can just wake up refreshed and start working | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: myeah, that's the trouble with full-time saltmine esp if still screen-based really; it still eats up the day pretty much, regardless of "easy" or not. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | it's not even all that much after your effort really as after your time, basically keeping you… busy. | [15:58] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is starting to become tangible now through this recent failure to meet my deadlines | [15:58] |
| lobbes: | because yeah, it IS rather easy work but still when I come home I feel 'burnt out' | [15:59] |
| lobbes: | and Fridays too, while I'm still tired I can at least say 'well I can sleep in tomorrow' i.e. I have control of my time | [16:01] |
| whaack: | lobbes: Why not do your writing before your saltmines work? Get paid while being burnt out | [16:01] |
| lobbes: | whaack: not a terrible idea, I suppose if I started waking up a few hours earlier this is feasible | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, I'm not going to find solutions for you there but note that 2 days out of every 7 is going to take a very long time indeed to get anywhere | [16:02] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: understood. I'm going to need to remedy this in some way. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: make clear to yourself your own priorities and then align your actions to those | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, plenty of various ways to do it really but… only if you want (that hard want meaning) to do it. | [16:04] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this makes sense. Esp the making clear my own priorities. Then the various actions I could take are more readily identifiable | [16:05] |
| lobbes: | thank you | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome; and do speak up on it anytime if you're stuck/want feedback. | [16:06] |
| lobbes: | I will | [16:07] |
| whaack: | lobbes: waking up early is a good habit to pick up anyways | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | heh, if he goes to sleep early too then; not even a bad idea at all for that matter. | [16:08] |
| whaack: | i used to be a night owl but my schedule was switched out of necessity for surfing | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you know, if you are burnt out/tired then, logically speaking, go to sleep, what; no matter what the hour, if too tired to do anything useful, then go to sleep. | [16:09] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman / whaack it is true, I have a terrible habit of staying up / waking up late | [16:10] |
| whaack: | ^ how-to-not-snowball 101 :D | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: see, alternatively you move to CR, get into surfing and then apparently your schedule will switch by itself even, problem(s) solved! | [16:11] |
| lobbes: | bwhah | [16:11] |
| lobbes: | I'd be a horrid surfer I imagine; I can't even swim | [16:12] |
| lobbes: | I just.. sink | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | even better, you'll learn to swim too! esp with those rip currents in CR, there can't be a better place to learn to swim ! | [16:12] |
| lobbes: | lol do-or-die eh? | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | well, hard guarantees, yes? can't be much harder than that. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | but that aside, packing more than one problems into one solution is otherwise not a bad idea at all; just pick problems and solution wisely, that's all, lolz. | [16:14] |
| lobbes: | I like it. Efficient! | [16:15] |
| whaack: | well you can learn to surf without knowing how to swim, at the beginner spot here (where I took thimbronion) you can stay where it is only waist deep. | [16:17] |
| lobbes: | whaack: that does sound kind of fun | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you know, quite a big part of that style jfw says is mine comes pretty much from… lacking time to beat around various bushes. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:00:53 jfw: I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [16:18] |
| whaack: | well you should learn to swim / handle rip currents anyways | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, efficient better than inefficient, sure! | [16:18] |
| whaack: | the one and only corpse i've ever seen was an older man who washed up in the surf in Playa Guillones | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, that is one way to encourage him! | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | lol that is a good sales pitch | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you around at all? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | (granted there were 3 meter waves that day, i learned he had a daily swim routine that he *really* stuck to) | [16:20] |
| lobbes: | now that's dedication | [16:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: makes sense on the time thing. | [16:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I will bbl. I'll make sure to get review/plan out today. I also discovered that I have tomorrow off of work, so I'll have some extra space for mp-wp-bot prep spillover if need be | [16:27] |
| dorion: | diana_coman catching up now. | [16:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015376 << I suspect there's some profound cultural differences between your LATAM and my LATAM, but the crowds may not be the problem so much as you lack practice reading and navigating the crowds. | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 15:44:26 whaack: diana_coman: yup. i learned my lesson twice in a row about avoiding LATAM crowds (which can be extended to crowds in general) | [16:39] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015358 << they are helpful. this week I let my ego get tangled in losing the pics, which delayed my writing. I also didn't provision enough time in my plan last week to accomodate whaack, whose visit I very much enjoyed. as the logs indicate, I was working on the hawaii article friday night, rather than plan/review. | [16:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 10:35:40 diana_coman: dorion: are those weekly plans & reviews more useful to you on Fridays in the end or on Sundays or not that useful at all or what? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that's quite likely indeed that he's not that good at dealing with crowds at all; but I'd still say best read from some …distance, lol. | [16:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Right. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: during my time in Tamarindo I had a stroke of good luck with regards to not being robbed etc. and that luck ran out yesterday | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: so how do you pick what you work on when you get some time? | [16:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I also suspect losing the camera might be messing with your head a bit. You've got to mind how you present when you are out and about. If you move around like you've got something to lose, the local grab and run artists are going to read "target" out of that. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not being robbed etc is not a matter of luck really | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | what BingoBoingo says above ; but more to the point: pickpockets do not randomly choose targets (or they won't last long really) | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | they are actually quite good at reading people for that matter. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | at least in the specific way they are interested in, of course. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | I guess uni time in Bucharest came at least with a side education on this, lolz. | [16:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | Down here its the same people getting robbed 6+ times a year. | [16:46] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yup I made a very specific and stupid error. I had my phone in my pants pocket and I moved it to my outside blazer pocket as I was in the thicket of a crowd. 1 min later i checked for it and it was gone | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, that's really more like a tax agreement than anything else | [16:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I am conscious of the plan, but clearly there's some gap between the thinking and doing. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | basically a less boring way of taxing | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: well, overall if looking back at all of it really, on the bright side, you'll do one way or another those parts that are absolutely crucial; and otherwise for the rest, well…. | [16:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman a friend gave me drucker's "the effective executive" yesterday, which I've started. one point it opened me up to is regularly re-evaluting priorities. | [16:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It really seems like it. "Reparations Recovery" is how Lafond describes Baltimore's version. | [16:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, the once nice film cameras didn't make their way to the feria because there is a robust used film camera market here. | [16:51] |
| dorion: | he says one can only effectively focus on one or two priorities at a time. once one has been completely, re-evaulate the priorities and plan. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: conscious of the plan I'm sure you are but the part that is not all that clear is how you deal with it esp when you are behind/it starts falling apart. | [16:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That isn't necessarily an error on its own. You left out the failure to keep a hand in your pocket while taking some time to think about who the most stabbable people in the crowd are. | [16:54] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, it's exactly clear to me either. there's definitely a stress response when I am getting behind. my understanding of brain function tells me the hypothalmus is more in control and the cortex less so, which thinking about it now is probably a reason I'm less conscious of that process. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the flexible part is that re-evaluate and adjust if/when needed, yes; not sure what are you saying there though, that weekly re-evaluation is too coarse? | [16:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-04 16:43:15 diana_coman: dorion_road: overall, the plan (and especially the initial plan) is really meant to be a roadmap, not a straightjacket (and I seriously think it would hinder rather than help you if you make it all that rigid); so plan it as a flexible thing to start with: a guide to make sure you don't waste time, but not something so fixed that it can't/shouldn't adapt to significant changes as they happen. | [16:56] |
| dorion: | not exactly clear* | [16:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That though seems to be enough to get the facial muscles moving in a way that the kids start looking for the next, less present target. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that's why I keep saying that the time to speak up about missing a deadline (and therefore to ADJUST the plan too!) is the day before the deadline, not the day of the deadline nor the one after nor "never", you know? | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | no need to *get to the stress* even, wtf. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: ah that sounds like an enjoyable exercise. should i also imagine how i'd go about it once i have identified my targets? | [16:59] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks. I see more flexibility, balance and proactive communication going a long way. I'll start focusing on those. it occurs those are causes to work from. | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: if/when it's already late, might even work better to at least not snowball it: adjust the expectations of everyone for the bit that is late and focus on the one(s) that can still be done on time unless the priorities really are reversed; but seriously, don't get so stressed about it all. | [17:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman re the weekly planning cycle being too coarse. I don't think it is looking at it through the lens of the adaptable roadmap rather than straightjacket. | [17:04] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, I'll take that approach and also calm down. | [17:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I'll try to dig you some jameslafond links for you. My first few days here I was walking around as though I were in the neighborhood surrounding my brother's house in Saint Louis. | [17:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | This was to the point I nearly shoulder checked a motorscooter shortly after landing. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | cool, so look at it through that lens then, do simply speak up (I haven't yet eaten anybody around here for speaking up, have I?) and it'll be fine. | [17:06] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: cool, thanks | [17:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman no, you've not eaten anyone I'm aware of for speaking up :) | [17:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It was a bit much to be honest, but having the right sort of alert scowl at the ready work here not that Montevideo isn't near as alien anymore. | [17:08] |
| dorion: | thanks diana_coman | [17:11] |
| whaack: | lol hold on – when you 'stepped aside and turned' you stepped _towards_ the scooter? | [17:11] |
| whaack: | related: i learned in my early CR days that girl needs to walk on your curb-side unless you want to open her up to the possibility of the drive by ass slap. | [17:17] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015395 – calls to mind robert kiyosaki's (rich dad, poor dad) "pay yourself first." | [17:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:01:44 whaack: lobbes: Why not do your writing before your saltmines work? Get paid while being burnt out | [17:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015446 – like how bullies know/sense who to bully. | [17:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:45:40 diana_coman: they are actually quite good at reading people for that matter. | [17:22] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015450 – inside pockets of blazer for things of more value. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:47:08 whaack: BingoBoingo: Yup I made a very specific and stupid error. I had my phone in my pants pocket and I moved it to my outside blazer pocket as I was in the thicket of a crowd. 1 min later i checked for it and it was gone | [17:23] |
| whaack: | yup, everything moved to the inside pockets afterwards, of course. | [17:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I left my line on the sidewalk into the source of the uncomfortably close exhaust not and conspiciously turned to look while plenting my boots. Smart? Probably not. Effective at deterring a potential grab and run? Yes. | [17:25] |
| jfw: | I also let myself get worked up / stressed yesterday from being again behind on my plan. And hesitated to speak up along the way because of… perhaps some shame at how slow things were going plus a vain hope that I'd somehow still get it all in. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | Specifically – I'm not getting my 5 hours of wallet dev, and while I caught up on the #o log from break and got assorted blog reading in, I've barely made a dent in a mountain of #t backlog | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was the writing of those articles that ate up your time otherwise or what specifically? | [17:35] |
| jfw: | dorion suggested prioritizing that by search for mentions. I suppose I've hesitated on that too because I worry I'd still miss too much context | [17:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: that was quite a bit of it, the bvt & fixpoint responses took a while too | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | heh, as I was saying, he's fine at handling on time what's crucial/burning | [17:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 16:49:02 diana_coman: dorion: well, overall if looking back at all of it really, on the bright side, you'll do one way or another those parts that are absolutely crucial; and otherwise for the rest, well…. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so then re-adjust: next week plan at least a few days without article and with reading #t instead; anyway, does it take longer than the 1.5 hours/day? iirc there wasn't any really heavy log-day lately, was there? | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | it occurs to me that I should possibly start eating people up for NOT speaking really. | [17:39] |
| jfw: | I've also started to wonder if I'm just a really slow reader. Adding up the log catchup time (including whatever background reading that pulls in) came to ~50 words per minute; then I did some conscious speed tests on simple material at ~200wpm | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | the trouble with always handling only what's burning is that one is then basically firefighting; no wonder stressed up too, sure. | [17:41] |
| jfw: | one of the heavier days from #o was 2020-01-05 with the mp-wp patch review chat | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: even better: write up summary of the day's log; so you get your reading + your writing :D | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | talking of 2 problems in one solution | [17:42] |
| jfw: | yes I've allowed it to overflow 1.5h. Hmm, sounds good | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how fast/slow you read the logs is likely to depend on how deep you want to go into whatever is discussed + to what extent it is (or not) familiar to you. | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | so to some extent you should be able to *adjust* the speed when/if needed; the logs like all other text can also be re-read | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | so for catch-up situations, you can have a quicker read; then again, if after that you never get around to re-read any of it.. | [17:44] |
| jfw: | btw I quite enjoyed the testing thread | [17:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-05 16:45:11 diana_coman: lobbes: do you know what black box and white box testing are? | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to know it! only boring stuff around here really, testing, going to sleep when tired, speaking up when needing to communicate, seriously, boring. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | if I never get around to re-read, then what? I won't recall well + am indicating I didn't find it worth the read? | [17:47] |
| jfw: | "don't jump in crowded bullpens or swim in 3m waves" | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: then it's not much of an "adjust the speed" really; it's more of a "change your speed" | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: precisely! | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | I guess dorion goes for the scan, you go for the deep dive, on average it balances out all right over some cervezas or something, there's that possibility too. | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, never discussed any logs/trilema stuff at a Junto? | [17:50] |
| whaack: | ^ they do discuss logs/trilema stuff during Junto. a person there even knew me as "whaack" | [17:52] |
| jfw: | I've done some presentations on applied cryptography basics plus one on http://trilema.com/2014/a-complete-theory-of-economics/ + http://trilema.com/2014/the-forum-and-its-implementation/ | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, you are a celebrity-bird, that's why they knew you! | [17:53] |
| whaack: | lmao | [17:53] |
| jfw: | oh I also did an "Everyday Digital Hygiene" – meaning of entropy, generating passwords with dice, and the like | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: getting back to http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Jan-2020#1015507 – the point is that if you decide something is worth another read, then you should explicitly schedule and do it; anything other than that is just pretense really as it will never happen so best not pretended either; you decide either way at any time but just …don't lie to yourself, it's not worth it. | [17:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-19 17:44:14 diana_coman: so for catch-up situations, you can have a quicker read; then again, if after that you never get around to re-read any of it.. | [17:56] |
| jfw: | yep, and I don't think I'm easily fooled by myself anyway | [18:00] |
| jfw: | probably doesn't stop me from trying, lol | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you are not; but you are also quite good at talking yourself into anything you want if you really choose to; basically it cuts both ways since yeah, it's …you with you, you know? | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | but sure, if/when you do fool yourself, it'll be an intricate thing, not the easy stuff; lolz. | [18:03] |
| jfw: | haha. gotta talk myself into things wisely then | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | sounds… wise! | [18:05] |
| jfw: | …at which point I notice how diana_coman almost let me off the hook from daily writing then found a way not to | [18:10] |
| jfw: | probably for the best | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; delayed-notice! | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | will be back tomorrow. | [18:11] |
| jfw: | cya diana_coman, pleasure chatting. | [18:12] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/wh-plan-for-week-15-jan-20th-jan-26th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 15 (Jan 20th – Jan 26th) | [21:17] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/wh-review-of-week-14-jan-13th-jan-19th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 14 (Jan 13th – Jan 19th) | [21:49] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/ejb-review-week-4-jan-13-jan-19/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 4 (Jan 13 – Jan 19) | [23:04] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/20/ejb-plan-week-5-jan-20-jan-26/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 5 (Jan 20 – Jan 26) | [23:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Jan 2020
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015264 << not sure how I missed this this morning, thanks jfw for the pointing it out. I've been working on the hawaii article. | [00:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 04:13:38 diana_coman: dorion: what/where/why are you stuck on silent with your blog now? | [00:49] |
| dorion: | one cloud that's been hanging over my head is in my sleepless daze I left my camera and pictures between the car rental drop off and gate in las vegas. I've been calling rental car/airport/airline – no luck. I've scraped together pictures taken by friends and family, which I'm going with for the article, but that mistake created some resistance. | [00:57] |
| dorion: | I spent more time on jwrd sales than I'd planned. following up with previous leads and also generated a few new promising ones. I did that instead of working through the article backlog. | [01:02] |
| dorion: | on the hawaii article itself, I used hanbot's tinyscheme + gimp method to resize the pics and jfw's script to create the scaffolding. one thiing I'm unsure about now though is when I preview the article, only the links to the pics show. when I click the links the pics open fine in a new tab, but they're not being rendered in the article. | [01:06] |
| dorion: | not sure if they'll actually be rendered when I publish or if I did something wrong. for further context, I used hanbot's 1024x638px dimensions. not sure if that's too big for my theme. I see jfw used 720px width. | [01:09] |
| jfw: | dorion: sounds like something done wrong, yes; have you tried viewing one of the thumbnail URLs individually? | [01:14] |
| jfw: | hm, I recall my script did both those things in one pass so did you modify it or what? if so, could paste the new version | [01:21] |
| jfw: | to bed | [01:24] |
| dorion: | jfw, I modified the width parameter and removed the imagemagick lines. here is the script and here is the diff. | [01:31] |
| jfw: | hm, the "f" loop variable isn't serving any purpose there anymore, but still looks like it should work, assuming the scheme code matches up. How about the earlier question? e.g. right click broken thumbnail -> View Image, what happens? | [01:51] |
| jfw: | really to bed nao | [01:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: from that paste, it looks like you should have 2 files there for each pic and if you say it doesn't render, it would seem like the -1024px.jpg file is missing/not found; did you check that url directly/that file being where the src of <img src=… > points to? | [05:15] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015311 – that sounds like it took way longer than you expected. | [05:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 19:35:15 lobbes: diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [05:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015315 – apparently it's a vanishing-cameras start of the year! | [05:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 00:57:14 dorion: one cloud that's been hanging over my head is in my sleepless daze I left my camera and pictures between the car rental drop off and gate in las vegas. I've been calling rental car/airport/airline – no luck. I've scraped together pictures taken by friends and family, which I'm going with for the article, but that mistake created some resistance. | [05:18] |
| diana_coman: | quite a pity though. | [05:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015316 – sales leads do have priority but there still has to be somewhere some time for getting back to your blog too; it's not all that unrelated either. | [05:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 01:02:00 dorion: I spent more time on jwrd sales than I'd planned. following up with previous leads and also generated a few new promising ones. I did that instead of working through the article backlog. | [05:23] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015325 – that's exactly it. there weren't any -1024px.jpgs. thank you. | [10:14] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 05:15:34 diana_coman: dorion: from that paste, it looks like you should have 2 files there for each pic and if you say it doesn't render, it would seem like the -1024px.jpg file is missing/not found; did you check that url directly/that file being where the src of <img src=… > points to? | [10:14] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015330 – the wound is healing, but the scar is going to endure quite a while I reckon. | [10:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 05:19:03 diana_coman: quite a pity though. | [10:16] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015331 – agreed. | [10:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 05:23:18 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015316 – sales leads do have priority but there still has to be somewhere some time for getting back to your blog too; it's not all that unrelated either. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015333 – glad to hear it's sorted and looking forward to the article. | [15:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 10:14:57 dorion: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Jan-2020#1015325 – that's exactly it. there weren't any -1024px.jpgs. thank you. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: was this comment ever answered somewhere? | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do take pingbacks out of recent comments on your blog; see the patch | [15:52] |
| jfw: | diana_coman, dorion: I recall seeing the comment and pondering a bit but looks like I did miss responding, huh. Thanks for pointing it out. | [16:27] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-18#1015339 << yeah, overall I liked the final result but indeed it took me 11 hours (from my estimated 6).. not sure why I'm so slow with writing | [18:01] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-18 09:09:40 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Jan-2020#1015311 – that sounds like it took way longer than you expected. | [18:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-17 19:35:15 lobbes: diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [18:01] |
| lobbes: | and roger that on the pingbacks-in-recent-comments vpatch. I'll apply that today | [18:02] |
| lobbes: | patch applied, and ty for the prod. I'll say it is a pleasure to not have a cluttered sidebar anymore | [19:22] |
| jfw: | lobbes: while you're at it, I heartily recommend maxing out the recent posts [articles] and comments counts too | [19:24] |
| lobbes: | jfw: this is a good point, ty. I'll do just that | [19:32] |
| jfw: | dorion: pls let me know if my response is intelligible. | [21:40] |
#ossasepia Logs for 17 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you finish it then? | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, wb! | [04:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what/where/why are you stuck on silent with your blog now? | [04:13] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: Still working that article now, but it isn't quite done. I think I may have to pick it up when I wake up. I'm working from home tomorrow so I should be able to finish it in the morning | [04:27] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you know, that ping was pretty much to get you starting before Friday on stuff, heh. | [04:29] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeahh I need to stop this wait-until-Friday jazz. I can see it is not working | [04:30] |
| diana_coman: | aha; anyways, have some rest & work well after that. | [04:32] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [04:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman, ty | [04:32] |
| lobbes: | will also bbl | [04:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ty. i made a terrible decision tonight. I went to the fiesta and went as part of the crowd inside the bull ring. I thought there was quite a bit of safety in numbers, but really the crowd makes it hard to see where the bull is + there are people in the way as you try to run away. The bull chased me and I had ample time to get out of the way but I lost my camera (it fell out of my pocket) as I scrambled under the fence | [07:15] |
| whaack: | (i saved the panama pics) | [07:16] |
| whaack: | to sleep | [07:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahahhaha; well, at least you got as a result quite the clear illustration of what "safety in numbers" ever means! And you still get to write it up, can't miss "Chased by the bull" article! | [07:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Yeah, when Latins start packing into a crowd, its time to start working your way out of there. They'll swear they just all wanted a good view, but it seems like some serious deeply wired "bees smothering invader to death" strategy. Here that happens with these little pop up fights from time to time. | [08:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Two folks already deep in a a crowd at the feria, Rambla, or any other dense gathering will start scrapping. The crowd will automatically pull tight around them. I have trouble interpreting these as anything other than "scam fight", their friends are probably getting ready to grab some bags off of members of the crowd and run during the distraction. | [08:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect a lot of the historical motivations for "gather around some bulls and piss them off" is that the folks who ran things enjoyed seeing bulls fucking up crowds. | [08:22] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I class it much simpler than that really but possibly because I saw enough of actual sheep herds, hm. | [08:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fyi, I got around to build Gales and it seems to have built fine on a CentOS 6 with gcc 4.9.4; there was just a short wtf moment when the… tar cmd failed; it turns out that the –sort option is available only from tar V 1.28 while my local tar is … 1.23; I didn't see any version spec in the prerequisites though probably my CentOS 6 is about as old everything as one gets nowadays | [12:34] |
| jfw: | whaack: I lol'd; glad you're alright though and sorry about the camera, it looked like a nice one | [15:59] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hey glad to hear it! And good to know about the tar version; the sort & other determinism tricks also don't work on Busybox tar as found on Gales itself. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yeah, I got why there was the –sort | [16:02] |
| whaack: | jfw: heh. yeah losing the camera was a night-ruiner…but at least i'll get a good (picture-less) article out of it | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, after reading your very useful BUILD doc a couple of times, I still packed the whole thing into a script mainly for speed but on reflection I think you got the right balance there – easy for one to make own script but not pre-packaged. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | I had considered implementing the tar format to surmount the limitations of the various implementations, but it's not pretty – historically fixed field widths with various extensions to surmount them. Ended up writing a shell archive tool instead, seen for example in the 'skeleton' script and gports. Should now be usable in place of tar actually. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol, I'd have thought it was the idiotic-crowd-mingling that was the night-ruiner; the camera was just the price of the lesson there. | [16:06] |
| jfw: | good to hear re balance of automation. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | I haven't yet got around to try deploying it too but at least there's a lenovo x200 unearthed that awaits to play the guinea pig. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | Looking forward to hearing how it goes. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | it might still be a while really. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | re tar, I don't really think it's worth /serious priority atm tbh | [16:10] |
| jfw: | yeah, and there's worse non-determinisms upstream of it IIRC | [16:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well yeah, i was pissed because i lost the camera because of a stupid decision. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | eh, you know, don't waste anger on the whole tree like that; just all to the root to make sure it sticks and that's it. | [16:13] |
| whaack: | alright. the real root is being convinced by cab driver 'ah yeah stay in the ring for a few more bulls' | [16:14] |
| whaack: | i should have quit while i was ahead after the 1st bull | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! so stupid decision but not even *your* own stupid idea to start with. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, always better to quit ahead of the bull I suppose, yes. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why so easily convinced anyway? | [16:17] |
| whaack: | unrelatedly, two people i've shared my blog with in person have commented with a raised eyebrow about how my site is 'not secure' (cuz I don't have HTTPS) | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | you should have told them that it has it SO secure that they can't even notice it!! | [16:18] |
| whaack: | ^ wut? lol | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | see, it helps to destabilise this sort of standard-comments | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | either something so out of the blue that it trips over the "expected flow" or …escalating the stupidity, it does wonders. | [16:19] |
| whaack: | aha yeah, that is how i should respond. trying to condense a long winded "well my site is read only, and should you want to ensure you are messaging me there's the gpg key listed. and btw you're being duped by your browser into thinking other sites are secure + who is the assigning authorithy you are trusting etc. etc." has not worked out | [16:23] |
| whaack: | as to the easily convinced question, i think it in part comes from me liking people who have a 'yes, let's do it!' attitude and then wanting to be that person i like. or in other words: i don't want to let people down when they're excited to do something together | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, if it's something *stupid*, cheer them on …from the sides, sure; and otherwise anyway, choose those who you don't want to let down, there's no possible good out of such blanket approach on this as on pretty much everything else. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | basically: discriminate. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [16:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, penance article published! Now to start planning mp-wp bot work this weekend | [19:35] |
| jfw: | bvt: left a reply to your Gales report but it's not showing to me even as in moderation. Did it make it to your queue? | [20:37] |
#ossasepia Logs for 16 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-15#1015245 << Going well. I've got the next 4 hours blocked for finishing this penance article (sorry about the latency; I had missed this ping) | [21:59] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-15 07:46:13 diana_coman: lobbes: how's it going? | [21:59] |
| whaack: | is back at the outpost of progress | [22:09] |
#ossasepia Logs for 15 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | bvt: oh, hey, glad to hear you liked the CG map article! I had no idea you were at all interested in rendering or even graphics, huh; looking forward to your comments/article(s) on it then! | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how's it going? | [03:52] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Jan-2020#1015228 << your opining has been helpful and looking forward to reading more. I'm game for owning the relationships, wanted to make sure we're coordinated. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-14 21:56:41 trinque: dorion: as per previous comments, get at it. you're managing this project; I'm just opining loudly, hopefully to your benefit. leadership means you own the relationships. | [16:18] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Jan-2020#1015230 << yeah, I was biting my tongue on that and am not holding my breath, but yeah, let's see. | [16:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-14 21:57:38 trinque: if he works at canonical, I'm somewhat skeptical he'll align himself with burning down the world, but who knows. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | otoh wouldn't it be fun if he did turn around from canonical. | [16:23] |
| dorion: | sure would be. | [16:28] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: another day of failure to publish here. Seeing the spinning and wondering why I couldn't stop, I turned to writing whatever thoughts, which turned into a kind of internal dialogue. If I'm not willing to put forward my thoughts as truth, I can at least posit and consider them | [16:54] |
| jfw: | as I wrote: "This writing resistance is a signal. What's it telling me? Perhaps: that I'm not yet ready to write this article. That I'm missing something. So can't I limit the scope to what I already know? Original idea was just what's on my mind after all. But then I had to add on some missing context, and got hung up again on interpreting it." | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it is a signal, yes; but that "not ready" needs more qualifying really | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what are you stuck on? | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, are you stuck on writing or on publishing? | [17:00] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: on writing; specifically, on the background of how I approached my parental relationships in recent years | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: possibly you are asking a too-big question there, to start with. | [17:06] |
| jfw: | quite possible | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is it still keeping you from engaging with the code writings? | [17:07] |
| jfw: | I don't think it would now; I've just focused on it since that's what I had thought I wanted last week | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, you *did* get something clarified, if not through that first bit you published, at least through the discussion that followed in here, right? | [17:10] |
| jfw: | yes I think so, certainly made some points more concrete. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | so possibly it did take a bit the pressure off there; that being said, it will come back again anyway if you just forget about it but by the sounds of it, you are possibly better off giving it some time too. | [17:11] |
| jfw: | mm and getting your perspective was a novel addition. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | so switch back to other writings for now; think of smaller /different questions whenever you give it some thought and see where it is maybe next week or so. | [17:12] |
| jfw: | I'm happy to give it some time | [17:12] |
| jfw: | ok | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | some time, not all the time in the world, heh | [17:13] |
| jfw: | noted :) and thank you | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome :) | [17:13] |
#ossasepia Logs for 14 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Jan-2020#1015190 – quite so, yes. | [03:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-13 19:14:37 jfw: dorion: I also don't use spellcheckers except on occasion; my attitude is it's better to improve the brain-proofreading capacity first because spellchecker will never help with eg. "discuss with your further the cost". Perhaps they're most helpful if viewed like a teacher; they're not 'fixing for you' but pointing out mistakes so you can learn. For CLI environment I've used "aspell". | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Jan-2020#1015188 – tsk; any "preparing" of the dragging feet and other parts variety is to be logged under "worshipping stupidity" (or "wasted time" if you must) and then see at the end of the day how much you work and how much you waste-worship. If you don't count it/fail to record it, simply calculate it by ruthless subtraction but there is no time "not spent on anything" because it just … | [04:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-13 19:04:25 jfw: I've noticed that one time-stretching self-delusion I'm prone to is "I haven't yet sat down and logged a start time on task X, thus I'm now 'preparing myself' or something and can drag feet and it totally doesn't count as time spent on X" | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | … not possible. | [04:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, it is that reptilian eye too, isn't it? enjoy panama and do take pictures for the blog too! | [04:06] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | diana_coman: o.O yes it must have been that reptilian eye | [10:08] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | diana_coman: i'm well under way to enjoying panama, i had a great time meeting up with dorion. the camera has been firing | [10:16] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | jfw: i messaged you on heathen comms. i'm going to go out for a bike ride sans electronics so i'll check in with you when i get back. | [12:47] |
| jfw: | whaack_temp_trav: I have not received; might need to check you're using traditional sms or phone call and not some facebookism | [13:03] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | jfw: kk | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the feet dragging going? | [15:16] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: for today I've sidestepped it by scheduling other things that really had to get done before my writing. I'm setting into that now. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | I see also I avoided ack'ing the worshipping stupidity advice, though I read this morning. | [16:12] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Jan-2020#1015211 << the pleasure was mine. looking forward to picking up and continuing tonight. | [16:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-14 10:16:04 whaack_temp_trav: diana_coman: i'm well under way to enjoying panama, i had a great time meeting up with dorion. the camera has been firing | [16:15] |
| jfw: | I will step up my detail of time recording by having all the time logged as something, at least as exercise for while this problem is ongoing. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds good. | [16:19] |
| dorion: | jfw does your log catch up include a response to bvt's gales installation report ? | [16:20] |
| jfw: | dorion: yes | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:57:19 jfw: bvt: thanks for the testing and writeup too and I will follow up in comments there. | [16:21] |
| dorion: | cool, thank you. | [16:22] |
| jfw: | I've made slow headway on the drafting, but I'm falling on face again as far as getting it done. whaack's arriving momentarily. Will get back to it either tonight or more likely first thing tomorrow. | [17:54] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: i liked your CG map post a lot (lots of nostalgia), and will try to follow in the comments – rendering technology was what brought me to programming when i was in high school, so it will be a personal story/brain dump of a sort. | [18:28] |
| trinque: | dorion: as per previous comments, get at it. you're managing this project; I'm just opining loudly, hopefully to your benefit. leadership means you own the relationships. | [21:56] |
| trinque: | in re: refind dood | [21:56] |
| trinque: | if he works at canonical, I'm somewhat skeptical he'll align himself with burning down the world, but who knows. | [21:57] |
#ossasepia Logs for 13 Jan 2020
| whaack: | jfw and dorion: i'm leaving my terminal, the best way to message me is here in #o but you can use try my digits as well if necessary. (Note – I will miss any pms you send me.) | [02:00] |
| jfw: | safe travels whaack & we'll see you shortly! | [02:27] |
| jfw: | spyked: feedbot's out | [02:31] |
| diana_coman: | new_yh 6 better here than in #eulora for the time being; what's your name? | [03:50] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-13-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 13 2020 | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/jfw-review-week-of-jan-6-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW review, week of Jan 6 2020 | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/wh-plan-for-week-14-jan-13th-jan-19th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 14 (Jan 13th – Jan 19th) | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/ejb-plan-week-4-jan-13-jan-19/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 4 (Jan 13 – Jan 19) | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/rmd-review-jan-6th-12th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Jan 6th-12th, 2020 | [04:40] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/13/ejb-review-week-3-jan-6-jan-12/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 3 (Jan 6 – Jan 12) | [04:40] |
| dorion: | diana_coman this is my draft of the email reaching out to the rEFInd fellow. I'd appreciate a sanity check from you when you have a moment prior to firing it off to him. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: why so…hm, fitful (and do use a spellchecker or something!); and give the guy first some time to react at all, first step is a more relaxed hi in and then depending on reaction, it moves forward one way or another; also, did you check with trinque as he was saying iirc he'll contact this guy, did he get around to contact him? | [15:58] |
| ossabot: | (eulora) 2020-01-05 mircea_popescu: say hi ? | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: that convo linked from eulora might be of interest to you re MP's "say hi" | [15:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't use a spell checker.. do you have one to recommend ? | [16:02] |
| dorion: | I'll read that #e thread. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sadly no, I actually don't use one really (I'm just detail-oriented whether I like it or not). | [16:04] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't check with trinque, as of 12/29 he said he might. In my comment friday evening I said I could today. I'll ask trinque explicitly though. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | can't hurt and it's not like it can't wait (though I see why you'd rather have it done and not hanging like that, of course). | [16:07] |
| dorion: | yeah, not a rush, but has been two weeks ™ since it was suggested by both you and mp, so I thought why not ? trinque's churning out some really good stuff as it is. plus, if this guy actually does wanna step up to the plate, that could free spyked up for something else. | [16:15] |
| dorion: | i'll see what trinque says and if he gives me the green light, dial it back. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sure; and I really meant just sync with trinque , nothing more. | [16:17] |
| dorion: | cool, thanks. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | anytime. | [16:19] |
| jfw: | ahoy, I've again failed to get my article written; I did make good headway on organizing my loose pile of thoughts on the family, so I won't consider the time a waste. | [19:02] |
| jfw: | I've noticed that one time-stretching self-delusion I'm prone to is "I haven't yet sat down and logged a start time on task X, thus I'm now 'preparing myself' or something and can drag feet and it totally doesn't count as time spent on X" | [19:04] |
| jfw: | quite like the usg inflation measurement flexi-rulers huh | [19:06] |
| jfw: | dorion: I also don't use spellcheckers except on occasion; my attitude is it's better to improve the brain-proofreading capacity first because spellchecker will never help with eg. "discuss with your further the cost". Perhaps they're most helpful if viewed like a teacher; they're not 'fixing for you' but pointing out mistakes so you can learn. For CLI environment I've used "aspell". | [19:14] |
| jfw: | whaack: are you in yet? made contact with dorion? | [19:17] |
| jfw: | hm, the above is why imho spellchecker is a permissible thing in human society but autocorrect is not (beyond the more basic problem of being a machine designed to disobey commands) | [19:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Just remember that time, like some other things doesn't inflate very well | [19:38] |
| dorion: | jfw thanks for the aspell tip. there's other envs apart from cli ? | [20:10] |
| dorion: | jfw whaack wasn't expecting to get settled in until 7:30ish | [20:11] |
| jfw: | quite so BingoBoingo. dorion: was that a rhetorical question or what do you mean re other envs? | [20:42] |
| dorion: | jfw was joak | [20:42] |
| jfw: | gotcha. | [20:43] |
| dorion: | off to meet whaack | [21:03] |
| watchfuleye: | jfw: thx for asking, yup i am at selinas meeting up w/ dorion in a couple of mins | [21:12] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | ^ watchfuleye was my nick for fleetbot on alt comp | [21:12] |
| whaack_temp_trav: | anyways, cya tomorrow jfw | [21:13] |
| jfw: | and who doesn't love a watchful eye dropping in to say hi! | [21:14] |
#ossasepia Logs for 12 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | diana_coman: just to stay honest: I have technically missed my deadline for the Gales install. I was aiming to have it complete tonight, but I will instead complete tomorrow. | [00:17] |
| lobbes: | I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [00:18] |
| lobbes: | off to sleep. Will be at terminal bright n' early | [00:18] |
| jfw: | nifty lobbes. | [00:31] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013850 – also to voice others if I'm not mistaken; such privilege! | [00:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 09:51:56 whaack: diana_coman: No I had the idea that I did not have the right to speak in #trilema, but I will use my common sense going forward. | [00:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:50:49 jfw: diana_coman: I'm wondering what to do for a travel key, thinking it unwise to carry my main one into the Zone, in light of http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/ . One thing I learned from that is apparently I could have been giving dorion_road his !!ups all this time – I hadn't realized! | [00:33] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013871 – certainly a documentation TODO, but safe to skip as dorion_road said. Since for better or worse the gports system works by producing intermediate package files, I figured there'd better be a way to sign & verify them. The step in question is for if you want to include a public key for that in install media. | [00:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 09:36:52 bvt: I have a question to the BUILD document: what does 'Install package signing key(s) in installer/ and update installer/initramfs.list.sh' refer to? is it a TODO item or something i am supposed to do? | [00:55] |
| jfw: | bvt: thanks for the testing and writeup too and I will follow up in comments there. | [00:57] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013885 – noted re Popper recommendation, ty diana_coman | [00:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 13:09:49 diana_coman: for that matter the recommendation holds for anyone else interested ( whaack jfw shrysr ?) | [00:58] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013900 – nice, applied it. | [01:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 18:59:12 whaack: I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [01:00] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm not seeing any chance of finishing catchup Sunday; that would be the main snowballing mentioned earlier. For updated ETA, I'm not sure, maybe I should be checking word counts and such; for now I'll say Tuesday | [02:20] |
| jfw: | to bed | [02:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014918 – good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though? | [04:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:18:01 lobbes: I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so what happened there exactly, did you just spin on the writing or what? | [04:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, such cliffhanger! lolz! | [04:55] |
| diana_coman: | how about talking about it, maybe it would get you unstuck faster, you know? | [04:56] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-12#1014946 << I just started way too late in the week really. Early this week was heavy work with the saltmines, and when I got home I was loathing climbing back in front of a monitor again. Didn't really get going until Friday save some misc researching/reading here and there. | [12:13] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 08:45:34 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014918 – good to hear it's going well at least; why did it spill then though? | [12:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 00:18:01 lobbes: I'm about midway through jfw's build document and no real problems yet. It has been a rather peaceful experience really; everything has been quite digestible. I think I'm on track to be able to complete the install and hit my deadline for the respective article tomorrow | [12:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I suppose there's no denying there was quite a bit of spinning. Also I think a kind of numbness to the urgency of getting it done & moving on. Definitely a return to old habit / comfort zone of lounging around pondering things in silence | [12:49] |
| jfw: | lolz, I tried everything except talking about it. Sat at keyboard, lounged on couch, re-read notes, went for walk, listened to some music, wrote whatever random thoughts or possible sentences, wrote sorta-outline | [12:52] |
| dorion: | lobbes thanks for the updates, glad you're making progress. one point I'll alert you on is when you get to partitioning the disk with the installer, double check which /dev/sdX is the install media and which is the internal, target disk. | [12:57] |
| jfw: | I'll have to spoil the cliffhanger to give better context: the bigger part of the thoughts that were hitting me on Wednesday were concerning family & especially parents: history, how things have developed, what's good, what's lacking, what I want there, what's possible, what I can do. | [12:57] |
| dorion: | lobbes I've fdisk'd /dev/sda assuming it was the internal disk in the past and ended up nuking the installer. not the end of the world since you can boot back to the build env and reinstall the install media, but check dmesg on the installer to be sure which is which. | [13:00] |
| jfw: | ty for pointing that out dorion: unless you use one of the uuid type schemes for disk naming, you get whatever order the BIOS / kernel enumerate, which indeed means sda is probably the install media if you're booting from usb. Then lilo.conf might need to be fixed up accordingly. | [13:03] |
| jfw: | ah, this is noted in the example lilo.conf as to why it doesn't include the boot= line so the directions should be fine on that score, but yes caution needed with fdisk/mkfs. | [13:07] |
| jfw: | Sadly the install process is way less explained than the build, so do ask if in doubt. | [13:11] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: btw, I hadn't particularly discussed my tmsr readings or submission here with parents previously. I had pretty much given up discussing politics or philosophy with them based on the results of past attempts; though I find myself cautiously open to reconsidering, as we've all changed at least somewhat since then | [13:31] |
| jfw: | They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [13:35] |
| jfw: | quite as I predicted there was allergic reaction to the qntraflag by my mom, the staunch Lincoln admirer | [13:37] |
| jfw: | I left it at "BingoBoingo likes to use it because the crowd says he can't" | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: There's also the fact that the bunny is black, though iirc cazalla ate him at some point. | [13:41] |
| dorion: | lol, fuck Lincoln. | [13:41] |
| jfw: | anyway the subject matter & readership does add to my perceived importance of writing the Right Thing | [13:41] |
| jfw: | haha, if we get dorion over for dinner it could get quite interesting | [13:42] |
| dorion: | likes to eat rabbit, tastes best when shot with own hands. | [13:42] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: the bunny has a sort of rebellious glare to him, now that I look full-size | [13:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Here there is quite a bit of gigantism going on in the farmed meat breeds. Well over 1.5 kilos dressed and cleaned for sale isn't uncommon. | [13:45] |
| dorion: | i'll never forget first encounter with larouche peeps. they were posted up in front of post office on long island with end the fed signs in 2011. I say, "hmm, what's this about." they hand me fdr (FDR !!!) propaganda. | [13:45] |
| jfw: | yeah their problem with the fed was its restraint, lolz. | [13:47] |
| jfw: | my folks are now ex-larouchies fwiw; what drew them to him remains, but there is perhaps more leeway for independent thought, or speech at any rate. | [13:51] |
| lobbes: | dorion: ty for the heads up on the fdisk step. I didn't know about dmesg so I will be sure to check its output | [13:56] |
| dorion: | lobbes cool, dmesg is a good friend to have :) | [13:57] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/12/wh-review-of-week-13-jan-6th-jan-12th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 13 (Jan 6th – Jan 12th) | [14:02] |
| jfw: | come to think of it, the "problem with the fed was its restraint" quip isn't technically accurate. The issue was more about what the printolade gets spent on; they wanted the emphasis on big infrastructure projects, Science, Education, space programs and such. | [14:14] |
| jfw: | …domestic manufacturing, "the physical economy". Inflation was understood as a monetary phenomenon iirc. | [14:16] |
| jfw: | But back to the subject of me, a main headwind I'm seeing against potential family-of-origin bliss is the militant ignorance that sometimes pops up | [14:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 14:48:28 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013922 – this is militant ignorance speaking; the fact that it's not "interesting to you" means simply that you are totally clueless atm; it is *important* and therefore you should *get interested*, not derp about that oh noez, not interesting to me atm, as if you were some measure of interestingness in this world. | [14:23] |
| jfw: | e.g. regarding Bitcoin, which I must have first talked to them about in 2012. Son devoting substantial activity to it, 1000x price appreciation since then, 11 yrs history, still not a priority to learn about? | [14:25] |
| dorion: | jfw as you know, I've been there. only you can decide how much disinterest / militant ignorance is tolerable. and what are the opportunity costs to tolerating. | [14:30] |
| dorion: | jfw http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-16-Oct-2019#1006570 | [14:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 16:41:06 diana_coman: jfw: for a core principle of mine (and I'd say not only mine but I don't really talk for others): focus on figuring things out for what they are rather than for what you'd want them to be/ find convenient to be | [14:33] |
| jfw: | a twist is that a couple years ago I mighta found it convenient to view them entirely as recalcitrant ignoramuses that I could safely tune out; while the reality is messier. We were able to connect in some ways. I enjoyed being in their company. We resonate on at least some of the frequencies. They have all sorts of knowledge, hard for | [14:49] |
| jfw: | me to judge how practical, and some modicum of usgtronic assets that I'd rather not see go up in smoke. | [14:49] |
| dorion: | jfw I didn't mean to imply it's simple or you ought to do one thing or another other than lay your cards on the table and be as honest as possible with them, see how they take it and let the chips fall where they may. e.g. in their company did you share with them your disappointment of their relative disinterest in what ~you~ think is of vital importance and hence what you've been dedicating your | [14:54] |
| dorion: | life to ? | [14:54] |
| jfw: | re assets, "the system is fragile" argument turns out not to get far with folks who accepted that and believed "crash just around the corner" since at least '73! The attitude now is, could still last a long time and nothing to be done about it anyway | [14:55] |
| jfw: | dorion: thanks, and starting to talk about it more publicly is a big step I think. | [14:56] |
| dorion: | jfw o fo sho | [14:59] |
| jfw: | I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [15:00] |
| jfw: | I (re)learned that my dad struggles with this avoidance/reticence too and even less so than his own father before (who I never knew); and that their wives helped balance this | [15:05] |
| jfw: | helped & help, rather! | [15:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Personally I don't much buy the "system is fragile" line anymore with respect to the US. The collapse up there is already well underway. | [15:06] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: certainly with respect to BTC; are there other yardsticks you'd point to? | [15:08] |
| dorion: | jfw folks thinking it's acceptable to walk outside in pajamas, lol. | [15:10] |
| jfw: | well I'm sure there are, based on your reporting; perhaps a more specific (perhaps difficult) question would be – which do you figure are most (a) meaningful or (b) perceptible in daily life? | [15:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Price of staple foods is a good start. Price of anything made of linen or wool another point. If you want a stong example, as of December 2019 when was the last time US troops were proudly fired upon by a state actor waving its flag? Compare the December 2019 answer to the January 2020 answers. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was there something you wanted to discuss today? | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | is catching up with the #o log, what a nice surprise for once. | [15:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Prices of furniture and other artifacts made of solid wood may be another point along with clothing to press the debasement of just about everything. | [15:13] |
| jfw: | hi diana_coman! looks like most of the points for my article ended up here. | [15:13] |
| jfw: | interesting angles BingoBoingo | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: This is a good starting point for the debasement line http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/ | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I already had this image of you smoking a good old pipe to ponder the depths in silence while the dark and smoke creep around but now you really cemented it! | [15:14] |
| dorion: | if only he dared to smoke, heh. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | well, it depends what one smokes, lol. | [15:16] |
| jfw: | ha! no pipe but some Ouzo was sipped | [15:16] |
| dorion: | "why would I want to inhale combusted plant material ?" | [15:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: This is a great companion to the inflation piece http://trilema.com/2014/the-bezzle-usd-and-the-tide-usd/ | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | well, why inhale recycled airs of others, you know? | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what /why clicked on Wednesday? | [15:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 12:57:56 jfw: I'll have to spoil the cliffhanger to give better context: the bigger part of the thoughts that were hitting me on Wednesday were concerning family & especially parents: history, how things have developed, what's good, what's lacking, what I want there, what's possible, what I can do. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014950 – bewildering things going on in #o? where, where? what did I miss? lolz. | [15:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:35:32 jfw: They did some reading; were pretty bewildered by what's going on here or what I was getting into. But they were delighted that you'd got me writing and your no-nonsense but sympathetic & reasonable approach | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | but I know the reaction, yes; still, everyone is entitled to their reaction, whatever it might be, what. | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014955 – what do you mean here? | [15:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:41:22 jfw: anyway the subject matter & readership does add to my perceived importance of writing the Right Thing | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014957 – cher monsieur Dorion, le gibier manque. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 13:42:24 dorion: likes to eat rabbit, tastes best when shot with own hands. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-20 16:30:25 diana_coman: and maybe you do write this year that hunting thing too or you'll start 2020 with an audio article le gibier manque et les femmes sont rares | [15:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I had nothing specific to discuss for today. I'm just going to keep working through this build/install and then get that writeup done. I'll get my plan and review out as well | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: sounds good. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014974 – why do you need to swing between the extremes there? | [15:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:49:22 jfw: a twist is that a couple years ago I mighta found it convenient to view them entirely as recalcitrant ignoramuses that I could safely tune out; while the reality is messier. We were able to connect in some ways. I enjoyed being in their company. We resonate on at least some of the frequencies. They have all sorts of knowledge, hard for | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014976 – this is btw perfectly sane, yes. | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:54:52 dorion: jfw I didn't mean to imply it's simple or you ought to do one thing or another other than lay your cards on the table and be as honest as possible with them, see how they take it and let the chips fall where they may. e.g. in their company did you share with them your disappointment of their relative disinterest in what ~you~ think is of vital importance and hence what you've been dedicating your | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014981 – oh, thanks! (and if you ever want *more* of that, just make sure to annoy me thoroughly!) | [15:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:00:53 jfw: I did not mention disappointment like that, no. Perhaps as big of a headwind, then, and the only one that's in my control, is developing that diana_coman style cut-right-to-the-point say-what's-really-on-your-mind approach, which I indeed admire in her | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the cut-right-to-the-point question for you is what do you actually want from them? | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | I'm all caught up with the logs here so do speak. | [15:33] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014994 looks quite as valuable from standpoint of the notion of progress as inflation itself. | [15:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 15:14:57 BingoBoingo: jfw: This is a good starting point for the debasement line http://trilema.com/2013/the-wonder-of-inflation/ | [15:34] |
| jfw: | alright diana_coman | [15:34] |
| jfw: | why Wednesday – perhaps partly background thinking coming together over time, but there were some stimuli from the sequence of things I was reading too | [15:36] |
| jfw: | ah, one I didn't mention – http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2017-03-16#1628151 in the course of research for http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/errata-for-gbw-node-drafts-to-date-and-bitcoin-txid-collisions/ | [15:38] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2017-03-16 asciilifeform: btw this thread is unpleasantly reminiscent of , e.g., asciilifeform's conversations with his elderly parents , re thebezzle. 'look outside, sky not fallen, not moved a centimetre, you idiot' | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: let me ask this a different way: why is it important to you that your parents see this? | [15:40] |
| jfw: | hm, I don't think I mind what they do or don't see in itself, but as they probably will see what I publish, I get the same kind of hesitation of speaking directly that I do in person | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Jan-2020#1014971 – dorion, was this what triggered your break from your parents? | [15:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-12 14:30:11 dorion: jfw as you know, I've been there. only you can decide how much disinterest / militant ignorance is tolerable. and what are the opportunity costs to tolerating. | [15:44] |
| jfw: | is that clarifying if still stupid? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not fully answering yet that "why is it important to you"? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | so they will see what you publish, sure; they will have one reaction or another, as they see fit, sure; you can't control their reaction anyway, nor should you; you might even predict it though if you understand them well enough for that, sure; nevertheless: why is that important to you? | [15:46] |
| jfw: | hm, not sure I follow the question then. Important to me that they see what specifically? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | and to qualify it properly: why is it more important to you than speaking your truth as you understand it? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, that was ambiguous in my question – I meant why is it important to you that they see things as you do on this matter (or on any really). | [15:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman it was. for how much stefan molyneux has been ripped on recently, his words gave me the insight and courage to bring the honesty, evaulate the response and act accordingly. I was 24 when I did it. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: fwiw I will forever remember 2 weeks of ~no sleep when I was 23. They cured me entirely of my parents though and I still think it's called being an adult. | [15:49] |
| jfw: | still here, that definitely clarifies the question, thinking | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | but you know, none of it had anything to do with "be young again" and that's pretty much what both of you, dorion and jfw seem to ask of your parents there. Why? | [15:51] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I didn't want them to be young again, it was more, "hey, these are issues I'm dealing with that are rooted in my childhood, can we honestly talk about them ?" the response kept coming back as self-justification and disinterest. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ah, that seems a different thing than what jfw is saying though. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | well what comes to mind is, if someone doesn't at least show capacity to consider an argument – and I don't mean to say they don't, just that it's a struggle on some topics – then it's discouraging to speak honestly about it | [15:56] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that is different than what he's talking about and that was the fundamental part; there was also the part that there would have been way more interest in what I was doing if what I was doing was sportsball. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hm, I can see it if you say "it's not worth it trying to have this conversation with them" but I don't see in any way how is it discouraging to speak honestly (and esp. the link to honesty, how??) | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: heh, to cite my mom : "why do you have to be so DIFFERENT from us???" | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [15:59] |
| jfw: | hrm, I agree, 'openly' is more the word I was looking for | [16:01] |
| whaack: | has been following this thread with interest. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, re holidays-with-mum, that was your choice of holidays, not mine, you know? | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you consider the writing on your blog as having a conversation with your parents? | [16:02] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not really, though conversation may follow | [16:03] |
| whaack: | My attitude towards my parents is something along the lines of ~ "I am thankful for you educating me enough to be able to know the various ways you fucked up." | [16:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman dad, "I don't want you to become a fanatic." (re economics/politics) also dad, "I'm an XYZ fan, I bleed rainbow." | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sure, anything *may follow*; why is that on your mind while writing though? | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: ahaha; people see what they know best, of course. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lmao; that's such a polite way to say fuck you. | [16:05] |
| dorion: | whaack hey, that's approx what I told them too. "I think you've done better than your parents, in particular because I'm having this conversation with you, this is me furthering the process." | [16:05] |
| dorion: | "I can't appreciate the sunshine without reconginzing there was plenty thunder and lightning." | [16:06] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I don't know why on my mind. It seems like a kind of acting towards purpose. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack, dorion the important part is whether you've made your peace with it all so that it's fully behind you rather than tripping you over unexpectedly as it seems to have happened now a bit with jfw | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that in part with an added side of "their reaction matters strongly to me" | [16:08] |
| jfw: | I suppose in childhood I had to be sensitive to their reactions; but now there's no reason it should matter strongly | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | there was never any problem with their saying/expectations/opinions/whatevers; the only problem (and that one that kept me awake & beyond miserable for 2 weeks) was fully and entirely my own, of course, as it ever is. | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha of course I know that it was my choice. and lol yup, that's the jist! There is more resentment towards dad than mom, my dad is a professional bridge player which signals to me he has some cognitive ability that he never applied. My mom worked hard to raise me, but I think her development suffered b.c. she was pretty when younger and thus was [http://trilema.com/2019/why-the-females-of-any-sexuate-species-are-necess | [16:11] |
| whaack: | arily-going-to-be-lazy-stupid-and-annoying/][insulated from improvement] | [16:11] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I took a two year break and invited them back in after I observed meaningful positive change. it's not perfect today, nor do I expect it to be (I have a lot of work to do myself as has been well documented), but we're moving in the right direction. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what is this right direction? | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so they were this and that; so… what? | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | resentment is just another form of "not over it" really. | [16:15] |
| dorion: | diana_coman that what needs to be said can be said and is heard without triggering an emotional outburst. | [16:19] |
| dorion: | lobbes comment in your mod queue. | [16:19] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: if I may ask, what was that only problem that kept you up those two weeks? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it is what it is, I have told them both what I thought in direct words. Mom took it well, dad stopped talking to me. (He would like to / tries talk to me about mundane shit, but I have unanswered questions that I restate when he tries to communicate, and he is unable to bring himself to answer them.) I have settled with a take care of mom and squeeze-dad-for-every-penny attitude. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: you are taking on your own shoulders quite a lot there though, to get them over their own emotional outbursts. | [16:21] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: recalling http://ossasepia.com/2019/10/21/and-i-wont-save-you-from-the-rats/ , sounds like a good thing you were so DIFFERENT! | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: my own want to keep both them and myself happy; it was impossibly, it took me that time to figure out such a simple thing and decide which part matters and which one doesn't really. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | impossible* | [16:23] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I think I helped foster the environment where they could process, e.g. being absent and recommending they seek therapy to talk with a pro about it all. plus, my father is a manager and through that he's received a lot of training to help process stress more rationally. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't know, fwiw I take mine for exactly what they are and don't feel any need to ask them for anything more than that really; I don't have neither specific expectations nor requests really. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: at significant cost to you. | [16:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman sure. it was costing me more to hang around and self-censor, a form of suicide as I saw it. | [16:30] |
| dorion: | I'm going to step away for a couple hours, will be back later tonight EST. thanks everyone for the convo ! | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: as long as it's not an ongoing cost. | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have any expectations from them. My dad just likes to be used, for example he has a dependopotamus woman living with him that he's been "trying to kick out" for over 2 years. From a cold, rational standpoint I think it's smart to try and ask him for money, etc. If he can't prevent people from using him, he may prefer to be used by his son. I think it's within my right to try, but I don't dedicate much time to t | [16:37] |
| whaack: | his nor do I expect to gain anything. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: makes sense that recognizing an impossibility of keeping both happy would take some doing; and does sound like being an adult indeed. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what is the significant cost you refer to re dorion? perhaps clear to him but not quite to me | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, I can see your point there; do note also that… hm, while he is your father, you are also your father's son, hm? | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: he's possibly the best one to ask that question though, isn't he? | [16:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: oh i am aware. that is what makes some of my dislike towards him visceral. i can see some of the worst of myself in him. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so why hate the live warning? | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | not like there's anyone perfect, you know? if it wasn't that, it would have been some other "worst of yourself", what. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah, that question gives a nice way to think of him. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | look at him and learn from it; work on yourself and do the best instead of the worst, that's all. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it had occurred to me the two of you might not be referring to the same cost, but not sure if this holds on the re-read. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I think we are referring to the same cost really but I won't answer a question that is really his if he wants to answer it or not. | [16:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha okay I will stop shutting my eyes to him. maybe my avoidance of my dad has been from a ~ "holllllly shit — THAT's my destiny?" fear. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly; but there's no such thing as "you'll be your father" mainly because – whatever similarities there might be in the genetic makeup – you still are not your father, obviously. | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: unrelated, re car, did you sort out fully the house? because the computer is still not built and running anyway. | [16:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean sort out fully the house? | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no more stupid problems tolerated around, for starters. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | iirc there was the electrics to look into, last thing. | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The electrics have no grounding wire, but it has not been solved. The other problem is there is an animal that lives on the roof that occasionally invites a girlfriend over at night and makes a fucking racket. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: has talking helped at all? | [17:03] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: helped quite a lot. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | still gotta write the article though, heh. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | and you know, it's there whenever you need it. | [17:04] |
| jfw: | yep | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | talk will stil not do the writing for you, no, it has this downside indeed. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/thoughts-on-shrysr-leaving-younghands-and-asciilifeforms-excommunication/#comment-148 – what's with that "having been the "psychologically dependent" in more than one codependent relationship in my life." ? | [17:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so one surfpal last year in Tamarindo, a tico, moved in with me. I had a nice apartment and we partied for months straight. I let him get away with not paying any rent for ~2.5 months, and I was also paying for the weed we both smoked. I became what I consider "psychologically dependent" not only because I enjoyed his company but also because he constantly invited over girls and guys from all over the world he met in t | [17:24] |
| whaack: | own+surfing. So my social network was being built all through this one heavy node. One day I was invited to a party by some of our mutual friends and I asked "ah is surfpal coming?" They bluntly told me that no, he wasn't invited, and asked why I felt the need to even to ask. Then I had an epiphany of how much I was depending on this guy to make friends and how I was being played for rent. What stuck out to me was that I was concer | [17:24] |
| whaack: | ned about how he would feel if I went to a party without him. | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, a sort of male dependopopotamus?? | [17:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: similar, but it was more of an unstated trade deal where he would do the work to meet friends / pickup girls for me instead of paying rent. he also drove me everywhere surfing. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | well, everything is always an unstated trade deal like that, sure. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you used the plural in that comment though so the above is 1; the rest? | [17:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. the main problem wasn't that part. it was the ~ "what will surfpal think if I go to a party without him?" attitude I started to develop | [17:38] |
| whaack: | typing up the second one | [17:38] |
| whaack: | (sorry one sec, someone came to the door) | [17:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The second one, about five years earlier, was a relationship I had with an ~alcoholic in college. There was no financial imbalance in this relationship (or it was in the other direction, she was a wealthy Wellesley student. – Wellesley is an all girls college 1hr away from MIT, and they have a shuttle that went back and fourth between the two schools.) This relationship was more of a _co_dependency, we were both enabl | [17:57] |
| whaack: | ing avoidance behavior / bad habits. ) I was a freshman and she was a junior, and while I was not a virgin, she was much more sexually experienced than me. I found her unbearable half the time she was sober, and pleasant while drunk. So given these two things, I was happy to enable her drinking (and get drunk myself) and hook up with her. We would spend copious amounts of time during school getting drunk, hooking up, and watching ~ | [17:57] |
| whaack: | netflix. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | apparently that's what school teaches, lol. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if there are more of those, just write them down in one article and be done with it. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright | [18:03] |
| whaack: | and yeah, that fate was not unique to me by any means. I was lucky we didn't get along well – otherwise the draining dissonant resonance may have gone for longer than it did (~1.5 years) | [18:13] |
| whaack: | stepping out for a bit, gn diana_coman and ty for the advice esp. re seeing dad as "live warning" | [18:14] |
| new_yh: | f … | [22:27] |
| dorion: | hello new_yh 6 , how goes and what brings you here ? | [22:35] |
| dorion: | is that a pipe in your name ? | [22:35] |
| new_yh: | f Hey, what's up! | [22:37] |
| new_yh: | f What pipe are you talking about? | [22:37] |
| new_yh: | f I had a question to ask here, but… | [22:38] |
| new_yh: | f I forgot what it was. | [22:38] |
| dorion: | the character between the h and 6 looks like , char 124 in ascii , aka pipe. | [22:40] |
| dorion: | why don't you share about yourself and maybe the question comes back to memory ? | [22:41] |
| new_yh: | f That pipe was unintentional. This username was randomly generated. | [22:43] |
| dorion: | oic | [22:44] |
| new_yh: | f I'm 18yrs old. I've got time on my hands. I'm lost in life, looking for some clarity. | [22:44] |
| new_yh: | f Social skills are a little rusty. I blame my existential crisis. Excuse the shoddy lingo. | [22:45] |
| new_yh: | f Hmm… Nothing comes to mind. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f I think it was a question about Eulora or something… | [22:46] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 well, this ain't the worst place to end up in your search for clarity. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f Good to know. | [22:46] |
| new_yh: | f Have any other "lost souls" turned up here before? | [22:47] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 this is a good place to ask about Eulora , diana_coman owns this channel and is CTO. | [22:49] |
| dorion: | there is also #eulora. | [22:50] |
| dorion: | but new_yh 6 if you want proper help, best to get yourself a name you actually want and register an RSA key with deedbot. the latter gives people confidence they're actually talking to you. | [22:51] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 did you read younghands.club yet ? | [22:52] |
| new_yh: | f dorion, Yeah, I've been to the site. | [22:54] |
| new_yh: | f I found my way here from a link on that site | [22:55] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 nice. here's a guide to setting up a RSA key and registering with deedbot : http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup | [22:56] |
| new_yh: | f Cool. Thanks | [22:57] |
| new_yh: | f I gotta eat. Brb | [22:57] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6 aok. and about clarity, in my experience this is one of the ~better~ places to get it. | [22:58] |
| dorion: | new_yh 6!68f4e76c@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.104.244.231.108 quits [Quit: Ping timeout (120 seconds)] << Digicel Jamaica. Right near da beach, boy ! | [23:32] |
#ossasepia Logs for 11 Jan 2020
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/11/rmd-plan-jan-11-17th-2020/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Jan 11-17th, 2020 | [08:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what happened to you now since this is last anyone heard of you? nothing moves until all caught up by Sunday or what? | [10:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-09 01:37:36 jfw: diana_coman: in other sliding, I didn't get an article out today. I intended to continue the code writeup series, but had trouble engaging; not from lack of materials at hand, but my mind was elsewhere, mainly things I'd been reading and things from the trip. I expect I'll be able to expand on that soon; got some thoughts captured at least. | [10:41] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I've been committing all the sins: not communicating, snowballing problems, wasting time – because I got stuck on writing (felt bad about it all but what does that do?), leaving you to wonder rather than asking for help because of, I dunno, pride or embarassment or stubbornness, probably all three. | [14:44] |
| jfw: | (boy was there a strong finger repulsion field around the Enter key on that line.) | [14:45] |
| jfw: | I've got maybe half of the intended article, though at a reasonable break point; I'm thinking to take a lunch break then re-read and publish what I have. | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: at least got through that finger repulsion field! re feeling bad about it all – it depends what you do with it, otherwise by itself it doesn't do much useful, no; break + re-read + publish sounds reasonable. | [14:49] |
| jfw: | aha. thanks, will do | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes how's that gales install going, did you figure out/ask re uefi or what you needed? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re the uefi I should be good there. I realized that the laptop I have Cuntoo on uses traditional BIOS, so I'm just going to use that machine. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | ah, good then. | [16:09] |
#ossasepia Logs for 10 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | dorion: what happened to you? | [09:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman clawing my way back to normalcy, had still been paying off some sleep debt the past couple days. for the estimate on the catch up: I expect to be caught up on tmsr os threads by Sunday and I'm publishing my next weekly plan today. | [10:38] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Jan-2020#1014862 << upon reflection, I went into the hawaii trip with pretty low expectations and not much of a plan, figured I'd spend a lot of time doing normal tasks. when I got there I started enjoying myself and then wanted to make the most of that and didn't properly adjust. | [10:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-08 15:52:56 diana_coman: dorion: sounds like some slide back to old habit perhaps. | [10:41] |
| dorion: | whaack tuesday night at 6pm we have junto. our resident composer in training is presenting an intro to music theory. you're welcome to join. if interested, i'll pm you details. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I think by now it might be a good idea to prioritize some comments /talk to people who published their reports re tmsr-os; because from where they are, it's been a week+ and no response at all from you. | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | re work on the cruise, heh; you are so 200\% good intentions, you know? | [10:49] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ack on tmsr-os comments. | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: talking of music theory – while reviewing Minsky, I found out he actually wrote some articles on quite what I had in mind re writing/reading and music; e.g. Sonata as a Teaching Machine – worth a read. | [10:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-30 19:06:48 diana_coman: another way to look at it would be from music theory if that rocks your boat better but I didn't get the impression it would. | [10:52] |
| dorion: | thanks for the link, I'll read and share. | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | well, *all* of Minsky is worth a few reads really but since you were interested in that specific topic. | [10:52] |
| dorion: | on good intentions, yeah I see it. it occurs a good aim for the coming weeks/months is to keep as much good intentions, but balance it out with ~realistic~ outlook. "the road to hell is paved with good intentions." | [10:54] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [10:56] |
| dorion: | working with you has started the process of bringing more realism, now the challenge is to make the process more endogenous. | [10:57] |
| whaack: | dorion: yes I'd be more than happy to attend, please pm the details | [22:35] |
| dorion: | whaack cool, done. | [22:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 09 Jan 2020
| jfw: | diana_coman: in other sliding, I didn't get an article out today. I intended to continue the code writeup series, but had trouble engaging; not from lack of materials at hand, but my mind was elsewhere, mainly things I'd been reading and things from the trip. I expect I'll be able to expand on that soon; got some thoughts captured at least. | [01:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you keep a journal while away as you said? | [03:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 12:46:55 jfw: likewise curious on the writing, maybe I'll at least keep a journal to stay in something of the habit | [03:40] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, write the things on your mind first, there's no reason not to. | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and he sent me the link to his font rendering library for the demo which is windows only (I had seen the link and at first I didn't realise why I hadn't seen the demo – until I scrolled and found out why,namely windows only). | [03:50] |
| diana_coman: | he does say in answer to one of my questions that he ("we") is working on a 2D vector graphics format too, OpenVGX, to be able to specify 3D geometry + camera view and then render the result as a 2D diagram. | [03:52] |
| diana_coman: | in his view, assets for run-time loading are best transmitted in binary, engine-specific formats. | [03:53] |
| diana_coman: | drat, wrong channel | [03:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I did not. There the notebook lay, waiting quietly and patiently to be used, but got no love until nearly the end. | [13:50] |
| jfw: | Ack on writing what's on my mind first. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | not an unusual fate for those "waiting quietly and patiently" at that; still, why u so mean to notebook! | [13:51] |
| jfw: | haha. | [13:52] |
| jfw: | not sure though, succumbed to distractions I suppose. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | sounds most likely; and given your earlier admission, it was probably an overdue break really. | [13:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-06 00:10:19 jfw: I'll admit a part of me has been reluctant about returning to normalcy – "this can totally go on forever, right??" Though even if it could, I don't imagine I'd stay satisfied for long, with all play and no work as it were, especially with such important work still to be done around here. | [13:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's not like the Montevideo trip included time for rest. | [13:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | Pretty much the opposite. | [13:58] |
| jfw: | heh, walking through the surf was probably the most restful thing there besides bed, yep. | [14:00] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: I saw your studiousness paid off with that mike_c advocate deal (though still behind the times on how it may have proceeded since), a big congrats on that | [14:06] |
| jfw: | well not just study ofc but words & deeds that got you in that position. | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, so ~when is the estimate for your catch-up ? | [14:25] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the above ^ q for you too. | [14:25] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it will be my main focus tomorrow through Sunday. I'll update if it looks like it can't be done by then. | [14:37] |
| jfw: | bbl tonight | [14:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Too early for congratulations on that. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right. | [15:45] |
#ossasepia Logs for 08 Jan 2020
| diana_coman: | whaack: writing on your own blog is among the "relaxing activities" with reading and studying Spanish, so it doesn't get entirely put on hold for 2 weeks now, does it? | [07:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion see in #t | [07:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was planning on writing 2-3 for the two week period, but I will stick to the bidaily writing exercise if you think it best. | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any reason why it would *not* be best? | [09:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: If I stuck to a strict 1.5 hour a day of writing then it would be no problem, but I have a habit of letting it go over time | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so don't let it go over time during those 2 weeks and get to see also how that works out. | [09:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I like writing on my blog, but I can't say I categorize it as a 'relaxing activity' | [09:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, it's the sort of learnt relaxation. | [09:30] |
| whaack: | i understand how that is so | [09:33] |
| whaack: | in other news, I've been having a blast driving a rental hyundai tuscon. I'm zipping by people swerving around dodging holes instead of inching along in the pathfinder like a snail while having even bicyclists pass me. | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, cool then! | [09:48] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Jan-2020#1014842 << copa delivered the luggage at 9pm monday ftr, not sure wtf happened cause they told me at the airport it didn't arrive to panama, but whatevs. | [13:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-06 13:52:15 dorion: copa lost one of my bags, so that hasn't exactly helped things, but I'll survive. | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the silence was more re blog & tmsr-os comments for people who delivered the promised articles or at least that's how I'd take it. | [13:29] |
| dorion: | diana_coman yeah, there was a lot of quality content published. I read, but didn't play my part in commenting. not exactly sure why atm, but do know I have those debts to pay down now. | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sounds like some slide back to old habit perhaps. | [15:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 06 Jan 2020
| jfw: | I'll admit a part of me has been reluctant about returning to normalcy – "this can totally go on forever, right??" Though even if it could, I don't imagine I'd stay satisfied for long, with all play and no work as it were, especially with such important work still to be done around here. | [00:10] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/jfw-plan-week-of-jan-6-2020/ << Young Hands Club — JFW plan, week of Jan 6 2020 | [02:42] |
| diana_coman: | wb jfw ! And it all sounds like a great vacation really, good for you. Looking forward to the photo articles too. | [03:36] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm on the last stretch of mine as well, currently sitting at gate in las vegas, expected to touch down in panama 10am tomorrow. | [03:40] |
| dorion_road: | I'll probably go straight to sleep when I get back, this past week was probably my all time low in the sleep category and have 5hr time shift and back to back nights on a plane, but overall I'm feeling quite rejuventated and really excited to write it out and get back on rhythm. | [03:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: safe travel then and certainly get some rest too; glad to hear it was rejuvenating anyway. | [04:10] |
| dorion: | is back on the ground in panama. I'll voice in #t after some sleep. | [13:51] |
| dorion: | copa lost one of my bags, so that hasn't exactly helped things, but I'll survive. | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | welcome back to the ground then dorion, hopefully the bag follows too; and no rush otherwise. | [13:55] |
| dorion: | thanks diana_coman | [13:56] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/wh-review-of-week-12-dec-30th-jan-5th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 12 (Dec 30th – Jan 5th) | [15:10] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/wh-plan-for-week-13-jan-6th-jan-12th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan for Week 13 (Jan 6th – Jan 12th) | [15:10] |
#ossasepia Logs for 05 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent another long day on TheFleet and published my article. I said I would publish a plan for building my computer but instead all I had time for was to publish my disassembling notes. I also said I would take inventory of the parts but I did not yet go through all the cables. | [02:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-02 16:22:49 whaack: I will do that now and publish a plan for building my computer as my article for tomorrow and otherwise get back to working on TheFleet for now. | [02:43] |
| whaack: | I should have my review / plan for the week done by tomorrow. But I am not 100\% sure I will, because of my mother's arrival and everything having been pushed from me trying to get TheFleet running. | [02:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014609 – how about Sundays 7:30pm utc ? | [04:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 20:38:45 lobbes: diana_coman: I can definitely see how this can be an in depth discussion. You know, I think we have at least two items in a conversation queue now, so I wonder if we oughta have like a standing meeting at a certain interval? | [04:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014610 – ahahaha, the beauty of lisp, right? lmao. | [04:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:17:17 whaack: diana_coman: I have my bot running now connected to 7 networks with a more robust reconnect feature. I am capped at 7 because of memory issues – the problem is I load quicklisp in my environment which by itself is ~70MB. So a next step is to figure out how to load my dependencies without quicklisp. | [04:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in any case, 7 will have to do for the pilot test, so at least there's that. | [04:25] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: since you've been working on mp-wp anyway, what would your thoughts be on a mp-wp plugin for vpatches display+review? As hinted a bit earlier around here. | [04:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-29 12:01:05 trinque: incidentally this is a tool I want, a commentary tool for vpatches. | [04:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014610 – ahahaha, the beauty of lisp, right? lmao. << to see the beauty you just need Lisp Memory Usage Positivity | [11:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 22:17:17 whaack: diana_coman: I have my bot running now connected to 7 networks with a more robust reconnect feature. I am capped at 7 because of memory issues – the problem is I load quicklisp in my environment which by itself is ~70MB. So a next step is to figure out how to load my dependencies without quicklisp. | [11:37] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-05#1014632 << sounds good to me. Thank you! | [11:58] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-05 08:15:57 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Jan-2020#1014609 – how about Sundays 7:30pm utc ? | [11:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-04 20:38:45 lobbes: diana_coman: I can definitely see how this can be an in depth discussion. You know, I think we have at least two items in a conversation queue now, so I wonder if we oughta have like a standing meeting at a certain interval? | [11:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I connected to 7 more networks on another VM. | [12:01] |
| whaack: | a few were banned / dropped so the total connected right now is ~9 | [12:05] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: yeah, i think that would be great to have. i'm imagining something like phf's patch viewer with the added ability to add inline comments | [12:33] |
| billymg: | btw, whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Nov-2019#1009221 << finally did this | [12:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-07 11:15:58 whaack: billymg: you should put an avatar on billymg.com | [12:37] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: in mp-wp, i could see the addition of a new post type and comment type. let's say post_type="vpatch", and this is selectable from within the mp-wp UI when creating a new post. if this post type is selected, the user gets an additional <textarea> where they can paste the full contents of a vpatch. this text is stored in a new column in the posts table, e.g. post_code. when rendered, post_content will | [12:57] |
| billymg: | be rendered first, followed by post_code (which will be formatted similar to the existing patch viewer) | [12:57] |
| billymg: | alternatively, instead of pasting the vpatch contents into a <textarea>, it could prompt the user to upload a .vpatch file, store it in a sensible (organized) directory, and store a reference to the file in a new column on posts, e.g. post_code_filepath. the rendering would be the same | [12:58] |
| billymg: | i personally like the latter because it would result in a cleaner UI and doesn't require copy/pasting a vpatch into a text area (which just seems cumbersome). also, depending on the size of some patches, this avoids blowing up the mysql database | [13:01] |
| billymg: | line-level commenting would require a minimal amount of JS (just enough to insert an inline comment box at a given line number) | [13:03] |
| billymg: | less clear is how revisions after a discussion would be handled. perhaps just a new published article after the author addressed all of the comments in the first round | [13:04] |
| billymg: | and this is just off the top of my head, i figure after some discussion here i could spend some time publishing a formal spec for the feature (for review) before starting any code | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: there might be 2 parts to it and not even necessarily tied together really | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | the upload vpatch + store in sensible place is really a script that can even be outside mp-wp, not much to do with the mp-wp itself | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | for the text/article itself though, why not make it simply a different type of tag? e.g. like one has 1 for footnotes, use [[]] or something else for "this is vpatch content"? | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | I think the whole viewing + reviewing can happen perfectly fine on the existing blog article structure, can't it? | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | all it needs is this new tag+corresponding plugin to do the formatting (perhaps similar to that vpatch viewer, sure) | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | and then the comments to the post can simply reference that | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | if/when there's a new version of the vpatch, it's up to whoever *signs* the new vpatch to publish it as a new article, no? | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | I wouldn't really go otherwise much along the slippery path of "automate a vpatch's lifecycle" because of the fundamental of V that *reading* is authorship of code (and that can't be automated really). | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: re inline comments – would it be possible for the plugin to update the article's content to provide perhaps inline links to the relevant comments or something of this sort? | [13:16] |
| billymg: | that makes sense. my reason for not suggesting the route of [[]] or similar was out of consideration for very large vpatches | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | but tbh I think this is one of the situations where it's perhaps better to wait and see what is actually *needed* because it's unclear to me that at this stage, before any serious use, one can fully tell really | [13:16] |
| billymg: | i think [[]] works well for snippets of code, but not entire thousand+ line vpatches | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | ie you risk overspecifying/making choices too quickly/before knowing the problem really | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: very large vpatches are a bit of trouble in themselves | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | I know we still end up with those but …they *are* trouble so I wouldn't base the viewer on them. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | because also, who the fuck reads thousand+ line vpatch? | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | maybe it's for the better if this even *forces* one to split the damned thing. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: also, why wouldn't it work well anyway? not like there aren't otherwise articles of thousands of words published fine with mp-wp? | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: would you care to add your view/ideas on this thread? | [13:20] |
| billymg: | diana_coman: >billymg: also, why wouldn't it work well anyway? not like there aren't otherwise articles of thousands of words published fine with mp-wp? << yes, true | [13:21] |
| billymg: | re: uploading inside mp-wp, i think it was the concept of code shelves that brought me to this (along with the idea of separating code from article content) | [13:22] |
| billymg: | as in, if a code shelf is a concept inside mp-wp, then that justifies mp-wp having some features for managing that shelf | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: on one hand I can see the appeal of having mp-wp basically maintain the code shelf as simply an automatically updated page with all vpatch+sigs uploaded, sure | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | but otoh why mix it with the discussion /review of code (since perhaps I even want to discuss some vpatch *before*/without adding it yet to my shelf for instance?) | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | and also: what's the separation you see between code and article content? the way I see it, for some code review, the code may very well *be* the article content, no? and the reviews are the comments, naturally. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: you might have made for yourself 2 pieces of work ([[]] + shelf mgm) instead of 1, heh. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | the additional potential trouble that I see if you go the route of having [[]] take directly the vpatch from disk rather than its text is that any annotations you add inline to it would then be separated from the text? | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | aka you end up with that situation where the content of your article is partially in db and partially on disk; it's already rather annoying that this is the case to some extent for wp (eg categories iirc and at any rate, images…) | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | not sure I see the case for extending that sort of situation. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | and uhm, I'd much, much rather have *no* JS whatsoever. | [13:35] |
| billymg: | i didn't mean that publishing an article would automatically add the vpatch to the code shelf, only that the concept of a code shelf hosted in mp-wp makes mp-wp somewhat of a code hosting tool as well. and since mp-wp is being used to host the code, it follows that this would be a logical place to discuss/review the code as well (not in the shelf, but elsewhere in mp-wp) | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: sure. | [13:42] |
| billymg: | is thinking about the other comments… | [13:42] |
| diana_coman: | no rush. | [13:43] |
| billymg: | ok, annotations from the author is something i didn't factor in. this would be much more complicated than necessary if the vpatch is stored on disk (UI would need to render the vpatch after upload and allow the user to annotate before publishing, ugh) | [13:49] |
| billymg: | re: stored in [[]] in post_content vs. stored in post_vpatch_code, i think with footnotes they are always tied to the article that contains them. vpatches are more portable. it makes sense to be able to display them inline in an article (for discussion/annotation), but they can also stand alone (be downloaded by a reader, be moved/promoted to the code shelf when ready) | [13:52] |
| billymg: | it gives more flexibility for later display or retrieval of all the code in ones mp-wp, rather than having to parse post_content looking for [[]] | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: the .vpatch file + the .sig file surely need of course to be standalone files too, there was no idea of NOT having them separate too; just NOT mixing the two at all: there's .vpatch files and those are indexed by the code shelf (which is singular because it's meant as one single entry point) and then there is – to the extent the author makes/wants it- a bunch of articles that discuss vpatch contents (and this can be … | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | … anything,even just parts of a vpatch at the end of the day, even not yet signed vpatch etc) | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | so certainly not parsing post_content, no. | [13:56] |
| billymg: | re: no javascript. yes, inline commenting could be done in the regular comment box if the commenter adds some annotation, e.g. ">>path/to/file.php#L22 comment text follows…" | [13:56] |
| billymg: | and then when rendered that comment is displayed at the correct file/line number | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: perhaps the [[]] can simply add html hooks for each line and then commenters can use those, right? | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | my potential suggestion – but more of an idea for laters, if needed – was to have it work backwards as well ie when a comment is approved, to collect the ref to any line-html hook and then update to add there a link to the comment; it might be overkill, not needed anyway, I don't really know atm, just throwing it out there. | [13:58] |
| billymg: | what do you mean by an html hook? | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: I meant an anchor for each line of code; but come to think of it, there's in principle already the selection mechanism, might even be enough, hm. | [14:02] |
| billymg: | ah, no, the anchor makes sense, e.g. <a href="#L22"> (the server-side selection mechanism still relies on a #select anchor to scroll to the selection) | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: yes, exactly. | [14:04] |
| billymg: | i was thinking that file name would need to be encoded in the anchor as well, but i see now that in the existing patch viewer the line numbers are cumulative | [14:05] |
| billymg: | not per file | [14:05] |
| billymg: | typing "#L22" at the beginning of a comment to make it render inline doesn't seem too bad | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, no need for more than that really; and it has this advantage that I see that one can in principle update the text too to list there for each line the links to comments that refer it (basically the non-js automated inline annotations if you want) | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | something like that; if it turns out it's useful. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | I need to go now but I'll be back in ~1.5 hours or so. | [14:07] |
| billymg: | ok, i'll think on this some more, and watch for additional comments from others | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: btw, if you publish your plan, we can start with that later today. | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | billymg: sure and if you publish some plan, I'll certainly read it. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [14:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: sounds good. I just published the plan now, should be coming through feedbot soon. I'll brb in ~7 mins | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: read it; what happened to the mp-wp polish idea as it seems entirely dropped? | [15:50] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well I'm still going to work through that today. Probably another 4 hours or so dedicated to it left | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: ah, so you aim to finish it today then? | [15:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I aim to at least get it up and running on the 'prod server' along with some rudimentary manual testing of bits | [15:54] |
| lobbes: | by the end of today, that is | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | ok, just don't let it drop afterwards in that forever-started-on state | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | taking the topics in order, there was the procrastination question – did you figure out anything re why? | [15:56] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is a good point on the dropping. I will add it to my "Things that I need to think on" items in this week's plan just in case there is spillover | [15:56] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/05/ejb-plan-week-3-jan-6-jan-12/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 3 (Jan 6 – Jan 12) | [15:57] |
| lobbes: | as for the procrastination q, the best thing I could up with besides "I'm just being lazy" is that it is some sort of instant gratification vs delayed gratification thing | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: hm; do/did you ever have any project/something you actually found it easy /fast to start on? | [15:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: if it is something that I keep 'loaded in my head' already then I usually have no issue picking it up / putting it down day-to-day. If that makes sense. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: it covers one part – it is easier to start on and therefore you start, yes. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do you procrastinate the same on relatively simpler tasks? because it starts sounding possibly related to the "too big jump in one step" simply. | [16:04] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: it is true that I don't really procrastinate on small things that I can get my head around quickly. It does seem to be more with things that I am unsure of where to start on | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | kind of ties in with your preference for clearly stated & neatly ordered stuff, yes. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | so break stuff into smaller & clearer steps and if unable /unsure of that, maybe just ask for more specific direction to get you started & anyway, until you start getting the hang of this part too | [16:07] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this makes sense. I will do just that | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | laziness is essentially just a signal like many others. | [16:08] |
| lobbes: | I never really thought of it like that before, but it does make sense | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | heh, I have yet to meet a single person (me included!) who has never been/can't be lazy, lol. | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: re bugs & testing, what was your question there to start with? because it seems more like an overall confusion tbh so not sure where to start you from on that. | [16:11] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, I think I get your meaning on the "will eliminate possibility of bugs" point and on the "learning code is like writing well, you won't improve overnight by some series of steps" | [16:14] |
| lobbes: | but wrt to testing in an automated fashion, this is something I've never done | [16:14] |
| lobbes: | *will never eliminate possibility of bugs | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you can improve anything by a series of steps – it just needs to be the steps that fit the cause of the trouble, not the steps that fit the result of the trouble, generally speaking, lol. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: hm, let's see then from beginning: what's a bug? | [16:16] |
| lobbes: | I guess I'd generally define a bug as 'behavior that is unwanted' | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | unwanted by whom? | [16:17] |
| lobbes: | by whomever is the authority of those using the code I suppose | [16:18] |
| lobbes: | or the authority of the environment that the code will run within | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: heh, in that case what are you even testing there? if I run it on my comp, I'll find bugs because my authority vs yours or what? | [16:20] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm, well I mean in the case of the mp-wp-bot, MP is paying me for a product, and he gave a spec. So in this case he'd be the authority I reason; or the one to determine 'this is a bug / this is not a bug' | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: but in that case you can't test without him by your side, no? | [16:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, I do have the specifications he gave me. I can test against that without him present | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: aha, so your def of bug is wrt to spec: a difference between specified behaviour vs actual behaviour of your code. | [16:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, I would agree with that | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | heh, it's one of the usual definitions, yes. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, next step then: since a bug is defined as above, what would "thorough testing" of some code mean? | [16:24] |
| lobbes: | I'm thinking at a minimum I'd be running a series of tests that would show me that the bot's actual behavior lines up to specified behavior | [16:26] |
| lobbes: | but I guess I see what you mean by "how to define thorough" | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: there is even quite a large body of uhm, effort let's say, poured into what is technically called formal specification precisely with a view towards formal verification aka "as thorough as it gets when testing god dammit" ; preferably even formal *proof* of correctness (which is even pushing it further). | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: at any rate, if you want "thorough", you'd need to take the spec, extract all desired behaviour at the very least and then check that; there is of course further trouble caused by all sorts, not least of which…how do you actually check? | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | which brings us neatly to the very problem with testing itself as an activity: say you have a very neat and simple spec, it just says program should give result A to input B | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | so you'll test that simple thing – how? | [16:35] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: in that example I would input B, and see if I get A | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: right; how many times? | [16:36] |
| lobbes: | statistically, I think I 'should' do 20 times for a sample population. But now I'm starting to see the issues.. | [16:37] |
| lobbes: | i.e. if I have 100 inputs.. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; statistically based on what …assumptions? you do know that *each* statistical model in fact has some very cumbersome assumptions (although in general they are never mentioned and ~always silently assumed only, mainly because it's convenient) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | (or rather: because otherwise wtf are we to do???) | [16:38] |
| lobbes: | yeah, lol. I do recall some heavy assumptions back in my stats 101 days (and really with anything to do with 'models', be they financial models or whathaveyou) | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: above your population of inputs has only one item so not exactly *that* the trouble even, no; the trouble is that your code is running in a whole environment and it's not in fact as isolated of it as you'd like to think; what if it's a pointerfuck that reads nonsense on the 100001th attempt for instance? | [16:40] |
| lobbes: | this does makes sense on the 'can't isolate' point; you'd need to know the totality of the environment, which is very expensive | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | then there is of course the slightly more complicated spec that is still very simple: program should do simple addition of integers; how are you going to thoroughly test even the *inputs* on this one? | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: not to mention that then it will get run in a different environment anyway and given current state of "software", you can't guarantee anything really. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do you know what black box and white box testing are? | [16:45] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I do not | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | eh, so there's a whole to say on testing alone to start with; but even beyond that, the fundamental there is essentially that a test that passes does *not* give you any information as to the correctness of the code really | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's only a test that fails which tells you something useful | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | and that something useful is "this is surely broken" | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | however, the opposite of that (this is surely NOT broken) can *never* be found out just from testing, no matter how much you test it there. | [16:48] |
| lobbes: | hm, I see what you mean. So really, the most I can aim for is "simply not found to be broken yet" | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | if you are really curious, there are even studies re how many bugs one finds on what amount of time spent for testing (and even when having a more informed approach to testing rather than the naive one) | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | the main result though is that some tests are useful (because most bugs are found through some use, basically) but then it's too much trouble to search for them through this sort of method. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: pretty much, yes. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | now back to black/white box because it's a simple and otherwise useful thing: black box means that you don't look inside – basically you consider it as a whole of which you are interested strictly only in inputs and outputs | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | so you design tests based solely on whatever correspondence of inputs/outputs you have | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | white box means that you DO take into account the insides of whatever it is, in this case of your code | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | hence you design tests based *also* on the code itself | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | for both of those, there are specific strategies based essentially on heuristics of "most likely ways/places in which code breaks" | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: the most useful part of this whole thing and the main reason why I went in such detail for you here is that the approach as a whole is more generally valid though, it's not just specific to software. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | whatever you are interested in and you are trying to understand or assess – if you go at it by "testing", you'll have quite the same type of trouble (only probably magnified because more complex than software) | [16:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm okay. This is all helping quite a bit. So if I understand correctly, when testing something I should be focusing primarily on a black box testing approach with an eye towards tests that are most likely to illuminate the most bugs | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: why do you say focus on black box primarily? | [16:59] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm, I misunderstood you above when you said 'approach as a whole'; I equated that to the black box testing (since you said that is when you consider it as a whole) | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: no; the approach is all the above, lol. | [17:01] |
| lobbes: | now I gotcha | [17:02] |
| lobbes: | so, I have a few q's: for one, what is the benefit anyway to testing separately like that (looking at code vs not), and two, how do I know which tests will illuminate the most bugs? | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | black box means considering an item as a whole (different stuff!) | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: they tend to catch different bugs & black box frees you from what you "think/know the code should do" esp if it's your code & in some cases you can't do the white box; you can't know upfront really; if you want to choose only one approach, you'd go for white box rather than black box at all times. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: or do you mean how to design the tests for either? | [17:04] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ah okay, I understand what you mean now on 'why do separate white/black box testing'. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | in a nutshell, for black box testing you'd partition the inputs space into whatever partitions are relevant + choose testing inputs so you cover each partition through at least one value + all boundaries (because that's the most usual case of fail) | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | for white box testing, you'd aim in principle to cover at least once all the control and data flows in your code. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | this would be the most basic stuff really. | [17:07] |
| lobbes: | this makes sense, thank you! | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: see, the power of a few questions; you're welcome. | [17:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, I definitely have a much better plan of attack for testing this bot now. However, I definitely think I'll need to plan more time to work on it as well | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | re automated testing, the idea is that you write them once but you can run them as many times as you need and that is *very* useful for next time when you change something/add something to the code. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: one important implication of that limitation of what you can find by testing is that it's *always* a much better pay off in the long term to not have to test much ie to know what it does rather than test for what it does. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | again, extremely relevant and valid for life, not only for code. | [17:11] |
| lobbes: | I can definitely see the general applications of that advice, that is for sure | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you have further stuff to implement for mp-wp? | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | I seem to recall something else to enable a move from current display of logs. | [17:14] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hmm, well I mean that is the bot. It'll display the logs in the blogs (as seen in my haphazard testing blog) | [17:16] |
| lobbes: | though now that you mention it there was a related change to the xmlrpc.php I had to make; I'll need to vpatch that too at some point | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: does it update in db if it's current log? | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | more to the point: what would I need to do in order to have the content of currently logged channels spit out in real time into corresponding daily articles on my blog? | [17:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: you'd just need to press my mp-wp-bot vpatches, configure it for your mp-wp install database, and then run the bot | [17:19] |
| lobbes: | though I do still need to release a second vpatch that is not found in above link | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: so perhaps once you are done, you do that & illustrate it since you have a logger running anyway, right? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: also, why the latency throughout? | [17:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: sure thing, like put together an install manual on my blog? | [17:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: am I slow to respond? I'm honestly just this slow lol | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes; preferably after you had it running and basically living proof that everything is working great. | [17:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'd love that. Sounds like a plan to me | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: relatively slow, yes; and at times visibly slow, to the point I wonder if I lost you/ it's too much in one go, lol. | [17:22] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: nah, sometimes I'll just be reading and grokking, though sometimes I can sense you are moving a point along so I'll let you finish | [17:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'll let you know if it ever becomes too much in one go. So far it hasn't been for me | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: the let finish part is fine, obviously. | [17:24] |
| lobbes: | kk | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: btw, it's not like it has to be a meeting spec as such; you know I tend to be around from about 7pm on most days so you know, just ask then/say something, it's fine | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter, anyone else | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: was there anything else? | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: makes sense, and good to know. Though (and I think dorion_road mentioned this at some point for himself) I kind of like scheduled meetings. idk why | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: nothing else from my end | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | heh, you like scheduled everything, don't you | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | though this was very helpful, so thank you again for your time | [17:26] |
| lobbes: | hahaha for some things, yes I do! | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do note though that you keep pushing those remaining 2 articles | [17:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: noted | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | there's always some reason to push them to next week, ahem; so I'd say 2 pushes is fine, but then can't push it 3rd time. | [17:28] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, I'll make sure I get working on article 2 by week 4 | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | good; and you're welcome. | [17:28] |
| lobbes: | will bbl; food | [17:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Nothing to add other than I fired up fleetbot on another VM. I will finish my weekly report by the end of tomorrow. | [22:32] |
| whaack: | billymg: nice re avatar! you're arriving in CR pretty soon right? | [22:37] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2020/01/06/ejb-review-week-2-jan-2-jan-5/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 2 (Jan 2 – Jan 5) | [22:53] |
| billymg: | whaack: yessir, already in touch with a shipping company and planning logistics in general | [23:19] |
| billymg: | very much looking forward to it | [23:25] |
| jfw: | Hi all! I'm back in Panama, and have been resting up and settling in and starting on what promises to be a lengthy and interesting catchup. | [23:35] |
| jfw: | Vacation was great: I relaxed, hung out with Robinson & family, then my own direct & some extended family (Christmas dinner with 11 adults and six under-10 kiddos, quite the whirlwind!); solved assorted simple household problems; got in some hiking, some sightseeing, a bunch of driving, and finally skiing at Sunday River – still sore in all the right ways. Looking forward to sharing some photos. | [23:54] |
- [↩]
#ossasepia Logs for 04 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I missed the deadline for my article today. I worked on TheFleet all day again to try to get the bots online before I'm going to be away from my terminal. I obtained the max-chan-per-nick for my networks, setup join/part logging as well as kicked-from-chan logging, ^ switched the unique ids to pids + changed the db schema to have a specific fleetbotlogs table, created a deploy script, and then ran it. I ran | [01:29] |
| whaack: | out of RAM on my VM so I am only connected to 8 networks right now. I need to fix my script so that it takes good care to keep its memory usage minimal. There also seems to be an error with the reconnect functionality. | [01:29] |
| whaack: | and by 'connected to 8 networks' i mean i have 8 sbcl processes running, since a random few of them got cleaved due to running out of memory and since my disconnect logging is not working, i am not exactly certain which networks i'm connected to atm. | [01:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, a test of sorts it sounds like, at least; that out of memory thing sounds gross though. | [04:52] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Jan-2020#1014544 – I can see that; otoh though, how would you order them? I can see the case perhaps for both UUIDs and pids but having just one still keeps a set of problems around. | [04:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 23:05:12 trinque: I didn't want to be in the business of worrying about renumbering log lines if I merged logs from two sources, and had previously said all manner of things about that log-line by foreign-key reference | [04:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Jan-2020#1014478 – it actually exceeded expectations on pretty much every front. I took a lot of pictures the past 2 days and will have an article to publish, so will spare details now. I disembark tomorrow morning local time, then have back to back red eye flights with stop over in las vegas and arrive to panama Monday morning. it'll be quite the relief | [08:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 05:34:05 diana_coman: dorion_road: how's the cruise? | [08:11] |
| dorion_road: | to get my routine and rhythm in motion again. | [08:11] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: oh hey, sounds good; though on the article front, dunno, does it beat hunting then or what? | [09:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: re memory there is an easy fix i can do, right now each process unnecessarily keeps in memory the entire list of networks + all their channels. that is at least 5mb per process right from the start | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aha, no need to keep that in memory really, no. | [15:49] |
| trinque: | diana_coman: what problems do UUIDs cause? | [15:53] |
| trinque: | arguably they're a waste of space, in that all that might ever be said would fit in an int32 | [15:54] |
| trinque: | at any rate, what makes a good key for a row of data is an interesting problem | [15:56] |
| trinque: | I've long thought that eventually all this data in people's bots would be chattered among the bots to each other. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: I didn't say they were a waste a space, no; and ftr I can state it also: no, they are not a waste of space. | [15:57] |
| trinque: | just asking for your opinion of the problems they cause, not saying you're wrong. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | I just think that both UUIDs and PIDs are needed because they serve different purpose really | [15:58] |
| trinque: | sure, UUID doesn't tell you which you saw first, for instance | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: exactly; and this matters for log lines because timestamp is such a mess that you can't rely on it. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | UUIDs otoh are useful precisely for identifiers though one can argue that you can always calculate on the fly some hash | [16:00] |
| trinque: | yep, hash is perhaps much more appropriate a (somewhat) universal reference | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | the way I see it, as long as it's one db, might as well go with auto-increment since there's no loss as such; if/when mixing dbs, can identify same/different via a hash and otherwise if/when needed add perhaps another level of ref (e.g. provenance ) or otherwise still just calc and add hash at that time | [16:02] |
| trinque: | renumbering is quite the bitch, can be made easier by "on update cascade" | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, I was honestly curious as to why you chose that (and I hadn't caught /recalled what you said re log-line by foreign-key ref http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Jan-2020#1014544 ) | [16:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 23:05:12 trinque: I didn't want to be in the business of worrying about renumbering log lines if I merged logs from two sources, and had previously said all manner of things about that log-line by foreign-key reference | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | yes, renumbering is a bitch; otoh database design has anyway some tensions as soon as the whole thing is worth anything so I doubt there's a one/single/ideal/perfect solution there. | [16:05] |
| trinque: | for sure, tradeoffs in all directions | [16:05] |
| whaack: | i will likely have to merge dbs further down the line in this project. i need to route through multiple ips to bypass the max-connections-per-host limit. i was originally planning to still have everything running on one server and just go through proxies, but i realize that trying to log absolutely all irc network activity is likely an exercise in DDOSing myself | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you need to produce first a clear report re all those numbers, you know? what decision can one make on this sort of shaky sands of there-is-this-limit and that-limit but dunno exactly . | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | don't attempt to build the whole thing out of incremental blind adjustments; it'll end up a mess quite predictably. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | blind & undocumented* | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, each chan should be in a single db though, right? I don't see why would a single chan end up split across several dbs so not sure there's much actual trouble merging otherwise. | [16:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i will try to be more forward thinking with my design. i am still repeating that bad habit of "incremental adjustments" | [16:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes a single channel would never be split accross dbs | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, did that MIT ever mention development methodologies at all? lolz | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, if you have a use case for those UUIDs, you should have argued it and kept them in; if you don't, then they are not in. | [16:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i blame myself for not taking advantage of MIT. but the default software system design class that I took was a how-to-java class | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there is some space and even need for incremental, sure, but it's not all-there-is. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | so then programming language class was what? | [16:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: what do you mean programming language class? I didn't take any class on language design or any class that *intended* to teach to a specific language | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: software system design means > how-to-any-language | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | ie by the name it actually intended to teach something other than a language; and otherwise hm, no..introductory programming course or something lower level (that I could see focusing on how-to-x-language)? | [16:27] |
| whaack: | http://stellar.mit.edu/S/course/6/fa14/6.005/materials.html "Software Construction" was the name of the class | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha; why not "nuts and bolts that java holds" | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyways, I guess I still haven't fully grokked the current MIT; don't take it to heart. | [16:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thanks lol. I would not major in CS if I went there again, my advisor warned me against it and i did not listen. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what did they advise for? | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | "against it" is easier than "for it", lolz. | [16:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: He said anything else I was interested in. His argument was not that the CS curriculum was bad, but that I would probably learn CS on my own time, and that I wouldn't be taking full advantage of resources at mit by majoring in cs. (i.e. why not major in mechanical engineering and learn how to use a mil lathe?) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | good point really; so… why didn't you? | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had decided that for sure I wanted to major in cs and stubbornly closed myself to his input | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | (normally there would have been a retort to that "point" of your advisor but possibly not by that time anymore so they were right either because they knew CS well enough or because they didn't know it well enough, lol) | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | ah, so ~the mech eng is not fashionable enough and lathe is not lisp. | [16:44] |
| whaack: | the intro class freshman year was also fun and imo well run. we programmed little vehicles that used sonar sensors to get information about their surroundings to solve mazes | [16:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ pretty much | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | btw the moment one says that "you'll learn X on your own time", that *means* the curriculum is bad; because if you can indeed learn it just the same on your own time then sure, wtf "university" | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | and the sane retort to what I suspect is his different background simply rather than much more than that would have been that ahem, you can also learn to use mil lathe on your employer's money later on as needed but you'll never get access again to far more valuable resources such as Minsky, | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | as in "working with Minsky"; but myeah. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | they do a career fair at the beginning of the year too, and it's a big event for the SV circus show, all the cs majors are getting 5-0/hour internships for the summer while the other majors generally struggle to find jobs | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | I can imagine. | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: re your search for bugs, the whole discussion can easily go through CS, Maths, Logics and Philosophy in a single paragraph too, lol; might fit better in a conversation or as an article if you want to look at that bit in more depth. | [17:07] |
| lobbes: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/24/ejb-plan-week-2-jan-2-jan-5/#comment-261 << diana_coman: I've not really ever tested in an automated fashion before. I just kinda manually try to break things as I go (and really even then I'm not too organized in exactly what to be testing for). | [20:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I can definitely see how this can be an in depth discussion. You know, I think we have at least two items in a conversation queue now, so I wonder if we oughta have like a standing meeting at a certain interval? | [20:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have my bot running now connected to 7 networks with a more robust reconnect feature. I am capped at 7 because of memory issues – the problem is I load quicklisp in my environment which by itself is ~70MB. So a next step is to figure out how to load my dependencies without quicklisp. | [22:17] |
| whaack: | actually i may be able to use asdf:load-system instead, i see that in trinque's ircbot | [22:24] |
| whaack: | err in trinque's ircbot USAGE file | [22:24] |
| whaack: | trinque: I think I may understand this if you never got around to it. The thread that normally calls ircbot-reconnect is the ircbot-ping-thread. However the ping-thread commits suicide because ircbot-disconnect calls (sb-thread:terminate-thread (ircbot-ping-thread bot)) . So when the ping thread calls ircbot-reconnect after calling ircbot-disconnect it never gets to the ir | [22:56] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-02-07 trinque: now that we're at something of a cuntoo interude while folks are testing, I'll find some time to figure out what deedbot gags on time to time re: reconnecting | [22:56] |
| whaack: | cbot-connect or ircbot-connect-thread. If you test ircbot-reconnect (in the repl or such) you will not see the bug because then ircbot-reconnect is being run from a different thread. | [22:56] |
#ossasepia Logs for 03 Jan 2020
| lobbes: | diana_coman: just letting you know I am back from holidays and at home terminal. Catching up and getting reorganized | [00:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did the act-first-think-second comp building this morning we discussed for 3hr. Then I sent 2hr on writing my article with the type of my disassembly notes. I did find a missing part, i do not have screws to mount the ssd and hdd (pcgamingcr did not send the case's assembly kit that contains them.) I ordered them for my mother to bring when she visits this Sunday. For TheFleet I setup basic join/disconnec | [01:42] |
| whaack: | t logging. I looked into logging join/part and it should be something I can get done quickly tomorrow. I have not forgot about the comment and took some time to draft a response. | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: wb, hope you had a refreshing break. | [05:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hopefully you get the test at least started so it can have a run over the next 2 weeks when it seems you'll not have much time on this. | [05:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: how's the cruise? | [05:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I am trying to get some bots connected by tonight / tomorrow midday. | [11:55] |
| whaack: | in scams: when I dropped the "no manuals? then the parts are not new?" message, i got no reply from pcgamingcr until the next day (this morning) "Todo es nuevo si no no dariamos garantia en los artÃculos" to which i responded "Cuales partes son nuevos y cuáles tienen garantia?" | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | lolz. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | i think some of the parts actually are new, and they decided to loot the accessories. because for example with the case they gave me the manual, just not the screws that come with it | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly or for that matter even "lost/dropped as unimportant the accessories" wouldn't surprise me much; but at the end of the day, this sort of details really don't matter, as the mess is still the mess, there's not much point to differentiating now between flavours of mess based on…intentions or something. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did they actually give you any papers for that "garantia"? and even if papers – what exactly are they worth? will they replace the part if it's faulty or what? (I can imagine how that would go,lolz) | [12:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right. i don't care much about figuring out the intentions, i want to play my cards so that i just recuperate as much of my loss as possible. that's why i have not gone full PUTA MADRE ME ENGAÑÓ. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no i think the garantia is an empty statement but i could ask for some papers for that i guess | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you should ask for the papers anyway. | [12:11] |
| adlai: | this channel is now unsubscribed from cat facts; whaack may send a private message to request a link to the unsolicited advice | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have two categories of messages I need to log. One is a standard message to channel, like the one i'm sending right now. The other type of message I need to log is a special message from fleetbot giving some information, there are currently 4 special messages: a msg when fleetbot connects/disconnects from a channel, and a join/part message. Currently I am using the same table "log" for both types of messages. The ben | [13:04] |
| whaack: | efit of this design is you can do a simple select query on the log ordered by received date and see all the information about a channel you'd typically want in order. The bad part of this design is that the 'special messages' are distinguished from normal messages via ~ 'magic values' | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean by magic values? | [13:45] |
| diana_coman: | it's a different category and you need categories anyway so supposedly there's already a column for that, isn't there? | [13:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have a category column, would be a good addition. as for magic values – there are columns like "host" that I set to "127.0.0.1" for the "special messages" | [13:49] |
| whaack: | er "magic values" | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: neah, add the category column; you need it *anyway*, see http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-31-Dec-2019#1014347 | [13:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-31 11:45:30 diana_coman: I'd rather it did; ideally marked as a different category (so you can filter them out/in later, at analysis time) | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, it IS the sane approach there, what; no 127.0.0.1, why would you even think of that? | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in general: do NOT blindly overload existing parts with whatever new meaning you happen to need on the spot, it's unsanitary, quite disgusting and the start of one full set of clusterfucks. | [13:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for not adding the column category immediately – I was being stupid for a second. However there still needs to be values put into fields (such as host) that don't have meaning for special messages, even if those values are just null / emptry string. | [13:56] |
| whaack: | My nose was at least working as I could smell the unsanitary code | [13:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the DB has default values, use them; this being said, the fact that you find yourself in the situation where you need to fill in fields that have no meaning for some rows is essentially a sign that you are stuffing in there what doesn't quite belong; whether it's a problem or not, it depends. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: strictly speaking, you are indeed abusing the log table there since the fleetbot "messages" are not irc messages, are they? | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, that "have to fill this which has no meaning" is precisely the flag of your abuse. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, the ordering is usually saner by id of message rather than the timestamp which can easily run in all sorts of trouble; is there an id per line? | [14:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes correct the fleetbot messages are not irc messages. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | (in turn, this can further complicate the trouble when you start inserting in there non-message messages); like all design, db design will end up quite a mess if you "just do it". | [14:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: each row has a unique id | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: basically your fleetbot messages belong in a table of their own and you can always do a join, dbms is good at that; have it log chan id or whatever for link + timestamp or something. | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so myeah, not very helpful to then mess up the sequence of message ids by inserting those non-messages in there. | [14:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't recall how much xp you have with sql/similar/db. | [14:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah well the unique ids are random hexes, i will see to it that they have incrementing ids | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, why random hexes? | [14:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that is the design of logbot that I have not changed | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | ah, huh; I can't see a reason for that; trinque , why did you use random hexes as unique ids for each log line in db? | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: just add an auto-incrementing id to the table and the dbms will do the rest for you. | [14:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | I somehow rather doubt there's any danger of overflowing the data type there + if it's at that, there's potential trouble in theory with random hexes too via clash. | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [14:15] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-01-03#1014489 << ty, it was very refreshing! Good to be back though. | [18:37] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-01-03 09:22:37 diana_coman: lobbes: wb, hope you had a refreshing break. | [18:37] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-24#1013903 << anything specific by Popper you recommend I start with? I started chewing through Kant a bit last year, but didn't get too far (was indeed a bit over my head). | [18:37] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 17:13:33 diana_coman: ha, forgot lobbes ^ | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: he's very readable and quite enjoyable really in ~all I read; the trouble with starting points is that they make sense or not depending on what you already have (or not); otoh, one starts wherever one can anyway, so there isn't any "wrong" starting point either. | [18:42] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I think I gotcha. So I kinda have to start chewing through ~something~ to really get the rest anyways | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw (and iirc) I think I read first his essays (grouped I think in "in search of a better world") – kind of made me want to listen to what he had to say; the open society and its enemies draws upon a lot of references so on one hand it can be overwhelming if you have no idea of those references, on the other hand you could perhaps use it as a starting point to learn about those too. | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes re chewing and also keep in mind that first read is just that – the *first* read, not like you have to attempt the impossible task of "getting everything from this one read" | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: sure, you could in principle go at it historically ie start with the ancients and work your way as they did; it makes for a fun project but I wouldn't call it a very practical approach tbh. | [18:50] |
| lobbes: | this is true re: first reads. Looking back, anything I found worth reading I ended up reading more than once usually | [18:51] |
| lobbes: | lol, yeah starting with the ancients sounds fun but also I think I would perish from this earth before making it too far | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | that is 1; then reading is re-reading is 2; and usually one needs at least 3 passes to fully get something so that's 3 and we'll stop there as it's quite enough anyway. | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: heh, if you also add the requirement to read them in original, certainly; and that's precisely how one gets both very happy ("will never run out of stuff to do!!!") and totally useless (will *also* never get to *do* anything either) | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you enjoy Kant though? | [18:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I did enjoy (what little I grokked) of Kant. I need to get an english version though, it was an extra layer of confusion trying to see if I was getting the German translated correctly | [18:58] |
| lobbes: | It was an enjoyable exercise, but then I think that rolls into your 'never be bored, but never get to do anything' point just above | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | well, let me translate for you and the logs, this tidbit that might shed some light on my take on philosophy overall so what I say on it gets a bit of context too: I was once before sworn at by a philosopher as he said I was a philosopher myself. | [19:02] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: but re Kant, I asked because on reflection, initially I hadn't included you in the recommendation for Popper mainly because I thought you were quite likely to enjoy Kant possibly even more. | [19:03] |
| diana_coman: | basically I spent quite a lot of years considering all philosophers idiots :D | [19:05] |
| lobbes: | haha. For what reasons though? Too much opining about and not enough practical bits? | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, I was very young indeed (about 15-20 pretty much); looking back at it, I'd say that philosopher guy I mention in the comment had seen something ie it was a combination of "hah, I'll make my OWN if I need one, thank you very much" + they'll talk of everything and do nothing + some idiots as "teachers" of the subject in school (+ possibly more tbh). | [19:11] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [19:13] |
| lobbes: | that combination does resonate with me in a familiar way, I can say, esp. at that age. | [19:18] |
| lobbes: | will also bbl | [19:18] |
| trinque: | diana_coman: UUIDs are cheaply globally unique for tiny datasets like human-produced logs | [23:04] |
| trinque: | I didn't want to be in the business of worrying about renumbering log lines if I merged logs from two sources, and had previously said all manner of things about that log-line by foreign-key reference | [23:05] |
#ossasepia Logs for 02 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I had an unproductive day. First thing to mention – I surfed for 2h in the evening. In the morning, almost 4h were spent cleaning off the thermal paste from the cpu and hea tsink. Then I went quite overtime with my article, since I had only a very faint outline from yesterday (3-4hr) I only spent about 1.5 hr on TheFleet, 5hr 15min short of my plan. I worked on improving the channel-snagger – i saw that ind | [01:47] |
| whaack: | eed it throws errors for some networks that I can connect to with my client so there may be many available networks missing. | [01:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what a mess of a day indeed. | [05:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: looks like the motherboard is likely used. the manual says it comes with 4 sata cables and an i/o shield, both of which pcgamingcr did not send. | [11:57] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: (or anyone) Is there a preferred method you have for applying+spreading the thermal paste? | [12:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I've always gone with what the paste manufacturer suggests for the type of chip in question | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | On the documentation part of their website or in the print instructions that came with the paste, normally there's a breakdown of what they recommend for different chip types | [13:03] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: great ty. i would not have known to look there | [13:04] |
| whaack: | one of the mounting holes for the motherboard seems almost dethreaded. i took off the mobo and tried to see if i could get the screw in at all, and i was able to, but it took an unusual amount of precision | [13:44] |
| whaack: | screwed in mobo successfully | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I guess you can call this ordering stuff through pcgamingcr a truly multi-learning experience then. | [15:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yupp | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the plan+status on your computer? | [15:34] |
| whaack: | i'm currently practicing putting the heat sink on the processor before i put on the thermal paste. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | right; the bigger plan though? | [15:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My plan was just to keep working a few hours every day on it. | [15:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am over my allotted time for today but I still would like to keep going and get the heat sink installed with the thermal paste before wrapping up. | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, so yesterday the few hours were to clean the paste, today a few more hours to screw the mobo in and tomorrow a few more hours to… put the drives in, or what? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | do you have some clear idea of all the steps required and why/how you choose "what next"? what are the parts and where they go and why and all that? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you take photos? | [15:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes i've been taking photos along the way | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | do you have also notes re what you did on which day and how long it took? | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and yes a few steps took quite an unexpected amount of time. i hope the last few pieces will all fall together quickly. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | (why and with what results should be in the notes too) | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, I may have taken a few but they are spotty | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | ah, hope, that thing to hold on to for dire lack of anything else. | [15:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: (I can confirm I do have a few scribbles on the disassembling process) | [15:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: And my full plan is weak, it is just my memory of redoing what I undid. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah, meaning your full plan is not a plan just like the disassembling process was probably more of an accident than a process and so on. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the next question being of course: did you at least… count the parts? or you'll end up with a few remaining outside after you close the case, lolz. | [15:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have them in one spot | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | or so you… hope; not like you can actually tell. | [15:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, I should have counted the parts including all the screws for multiple reasons even if it is unlikely that I will lose them | [16:21] |
| whaack: | I will do that now and publish a plan for building my computer as my article for tomorrow and otherwise get back to working on TheFleet for now. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: more to the point, remember that basic part of being able to undo/redo? It *includes* a properly documented disassemble phase if that's your starting point; as in: disassembling happens with pen and paper at hand, parts get noted down and have their storage place; there's little more frustrating than ending up with "can't find a screw" or whatevers. | [16:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-26 12:57:51 diana_coman: whaack: also, as a basic engineering rule, for everything you plan to apply/assemble, you should have from starters everything required for the removal/disassemble really. | [16:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: understood. i did this only partly, i have some notes on the order of steps and i have an organized spot for items + pictures, but it was not done thoroughly and some steps are missing as well as the parts list. (sorry for the delayed response, someone was at the door) | [16:43] |
| whaack: | dorion_road and jfw: bump on q as to whether or not you'll be back and available on Jan 15th. | [20:35] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 15:12:05 jfw: whaack: pretty sure both dorion_road and I will be back by the 15th fwiw. | [20:35] |
| dorion_road: | whaack I confirm I'll be back in Panama next Monday and happy to meet up when you visit. Have you booked the trip yet ? | [23:15] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: no, but i will now :) | [23:15] |
| dorion_road: | cool. if you have any questions about where to stay, just ask. | [23:19] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: yes certainly if you have a recommendation, please lmk. also which airport should I fly into? | [23:20] |
| dorion_road: | are you hosteling / hotel / airbnb ? | [23:21] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: if you know of a nice hotel for <0 a night i'll take that, otherwise i'll do the hostel adventure | [23:23] |
| dorion_road: | whaack, I'd look at what's most convenient / economical from your cr airport. tocumen is the big one, but albrook is in the city and panama pacifico is on the west side of the canal, also close. | [23:24] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: looks like i'm going to go with tocumen | [23:27] |
| dorion_road: | whaack no hotel <0/night comes to mind. for hostels, selina's in casco viejo is nice and new. I've not stayed there, but been to parties. | [23:28] |
| dorion_road: | selina's probably has shuttles from tocumen, standard airport taxi rate is 0 to the city. | [23:30] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: they have a nice selina in tamarindo as well. sounds fun, alright i'll go with that then. | [23:31] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: thx for the help, i pulled the trigger. I get in the evening of Jan 13th and leave the morning of Jan 16th | [23:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 01 Jan 2020
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Did 8h of saltmines, 1hr of Spanish, ~2 hr of 'writing time', but that was spent mostly researching reading #t logs + links. 45mins of setting up my comp was on my schedule, but I did not put anytime into that. (Also, my plan for this week needs to be updated to include which days I publish on) | [02:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds ok. | [05:51] |
| whaack: | i need a better method or i'm going to be cleaning this heat sink all day. i was only able to obtain 90\% ethyl alcohol. i am putting the ethyl on the heatsink with a qtip and rubbing aggressively with coffee filters. i've made progress but every pass still seems to pick up some excess thermal paste. | [11:35] |
| whaack: | and with the cpu i'm going to need to be way more gentle imo. i haven't decided whether to clean it with it in or out of the motherboard. currently i plan to leave it in because i don't think i'm going to spill the alcohol and i'll leave it ample time to evaporate anyways | [11:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you have that much thermal paste on there, give it some passes rubbing with qtips | [11:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | But still finish with the coffee filters | [11:38] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes i've been doing targeted qtip cleans as well for the nooks and crannies | [11:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Just get the qtip soaked with solvent and hold it on the problem areas so the solvent bleeds into the paste. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: ah okay | [11:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | Let the solvent do the hard work, save your aggressive rubbing for once the bulk of the grease is gone. | [11:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | Maybe take some pictures of what you've encountered on the heatsink/CPU mating surfaces. | [11:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | If you've got thick paste you're fighting (which usually means far too much was applied), you can: 1. wet a microfiber rag with solvent 2. set the rag on a flat and clean surface unpainted/unvarnished surface 3. set the item to be cleaned paste side down on the rag | [11:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you do use the microfiber rag to prime the paste with solvent, do use a clean one you don't mind tossing. | [11:48] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: i'll post a pic of what i'm working with. it's not a matter of there being a thick crusty paste that's hard to remove, i just can't get it to a particularly shiny finish | [11:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Still may be worth priming the past with a solvent rag, but the pics usually help | [11:52] |
| whaack: | ztkfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/DSC01052.JPG | [11:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Yeah that's still rather dirty. Maybe not soak a rag dirty, but soak a coffer filter (or in a pinch, a paper towel) dirty. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Alright i'll soak a coffee filter and place the heat sink on that for a while | [12:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: After 10 minutes or so wipe it dry with another filter. If you let if sit too long you'll lose solvent to the air. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: roger, timer set | [12:07] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: hm i think 10 mins may have been too long. it was almost completely dry when i lift it off | [12:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Maybe something that holds more solvent than a coffee filter would help | [12:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | Just don't use toilet paper unless you want to remove a bunch of lint later. | [12:28] |
| whaack: | alright giving the rag a go | [12:33] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: gah not too much luck really. are those circles on the right side of the pic thermal paste rings, btW? | [12:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It's hard to say from the picture. they could be joints between parts of the heatsink | [13:00] |
| whaack: | the real problem, from my limited knowledge, appears to be the residue inside the ridges | [13:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: What's between the ridges may be solder rather than thermal paste. | [13:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | Sure if rubbed hard enough, the soft metal in the solder can mark up what's being rubbed on it, but… it isn't going to dissolve in alcohol. | [13:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | What really matters is the flat surfaces that will be making contact are clean. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: k. looks like i'm getting some milage out of scrubbing much harder | [13:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Maybe do a quick finger nail test. Does the stuff you are attacking behave like a solidified goo or when you poke it, is it more like a sort of pewter? | [13:11] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: i don't know what a pewter is, but if you mean some sort of dust/removable material – it's hard to tell since the residue in the ridges is hard to pick at | [13:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Pewter's a sort of tin allow with properties similar to solder. If that residue just doesn't want to give… it could be the solder holding the thing together. | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The important thing is… does this stuff you are picking at interfere with the heatsink having a flat surface to mate with the CPU? | [13:39] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: no it doesn't, not on the edges, so you're right i don't think it will make a difference | [13:40] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: after much more scrubbing http://ztkfg.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/DSC01058.JPG | [13:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That looks clean, give it a couple gentle wipes with the coffee filters and try to be more gentle with the CPU | [13:45] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Alright. i think the pic makes it look a little extra clean because it is more of a birdseye view than the first pic | [13:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Is anything at all coming off when you wipe gently with a solvent wetted coffee filter? | [13:49] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: not with the coffee filter but yes with the qtip | [13:50] |
#ossasepia Logs for 31 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4h of saltmines + the trip to Santa Cruz + wrote my article. the lost 4h on saltmines and no dedicated Spanish time are b.c. of going a little over time with my article and b.c. i was awake for fewer hours today | [00:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, spill over is spill over, yes. | [04:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: a previous report was a major overstatement – i have ~40,000 channels from ~200 networks rather than [700,000 channels from ~500 networks][http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Dec-2019#1014202] | [10:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-28 02:17:11 whaack: just under 700,000 channels right now. I am missing channels from roughly 100 networks. They mostly offline, but some have a few rules that are messing up my script, such as "you must be connected for 60s before grabbing the channel list" | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lolz, quite the difference there; how come? and are there in the end ~500 networks and you're missing ~300 or are there simply ~200 total or what? | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there are 597 listed networks on netsplit.de, but some of them appear dead (i can't connect via the advertised hostname/port) | [11:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw this is NOT programming ffs, it's monkeying at the keyboard, ugh. | [11:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you even spot-check those to see if it's perhaps just your bot(s)? | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | it seems rather too large a chunk to be just bogus although it's not impossible nowadays either. | [11:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i got the 500 networks-with-channels number because i ran an improper reduce on my list of networks. atm now i have nfi how i got the 700,000 channel total | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | well, at least it's funny. | [11:22] |
| whaack: | i think i did something like pipe it to wc and counted the words instead of the lines | [11:22] |
| whaack: | yup, that's what i did | [11:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no i didn't spot check the networks where I received USOCKET errors | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | it's just too many to leave it at that; one way or another it needs looked into; can still wait since there's a whole lot otherwise to get started on those you could connect to, but you can't say "they don't exist, netsplit.de is wrong" just on what you have so far; leave them for now in "??? category" perhaps, for laters. | [11:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, I plan to investigate all the networks I was unable to connect to. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | all right; but it can wait. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think right now I need to design the pipeline that connects channel-snagger and fleetbot. So fleetbot can use what is available atm and begin logging, and then when new networks and channels appear it will start logging those as well | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible, yes. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For the issue regarding connecting enough bots to the bigger networks, it will take more time to build this – but I am willing to get enough ips and route through them. | [11:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The work for that would be to setup ~10-20 proxy servers, and then find out how to set CL to route through different proxy servers on a per-thread basis. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that can also wait though; first make at the very least a "test run" that fully works and you know what's going on in there. | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also re "silence", do notice that it might be due to the holidays time to some extent; it is New Year's Eve, after all. | [11:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: of course, two networks were in Bulgaria and it was late at night for the majority of the time i was connected | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does the bot log the join/parts too? | [11:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, would you like it to? | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | I'd rather it did; ideally marked as a different category (so you can filter them out/in later, at analysis time) | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | but it can give I suppose an idea of just how much of the whole imagined "activity" is nothing more than …automated processes basically. | [11:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. i will look into adding it | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [11:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as for doing the "test run", should I connect a fleet to say ~50 or so small networks where I don't run into the max-connections-per-host problem? | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes; and monitor it's run for at least several days/ a week, it's basically a first chance to get some idea of the practical issues; atm it's even unclear how much data you'll get for instance (and I expect that's anyway going to end up on some power law basically but still); test run indeed. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | its* ; ugh. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do select your sources better, really; that "definition" of codependency is worse than useless really; the first part is microsoft-style and the 2nd part reads more like a confusion than a definition; the core of it is the enabling of one's faults (hence the previous clue re don't use tmsr as a crutch) | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | also, you glossed over/chose only some parts to answer to in that comment, lol. | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay i'll reread and comment addressing the points i missed. i had already waited 2 days to respond and i wanted to get _some_ response in. | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why the delay anyway? | [14:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i thought writing a reply would take a while | [14:57] |
| diana_coman: | you can always ack the point(s) otherwise and note you'll need to think it some more or something but even better maybe discuss it instead of just spinning around it. | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; did it take then more than alloted and so you cut out parts or how does this even work? | [14:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i just addressed the points I saw most important to respond to and eventually decided i had spent enough time and hit the comment button | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | basically "the rest is not worth my time" then? | [15:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: arg no i don't think that even if my actions say it | [15:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but spinning on it is not worth my time, and i'm worried that i'll lose hours doing that | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, good; but yeah, that's what they say and why I said you should have at least explicitly stated that you need more time to consider the other points. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so…don't; hence – discuss/ask/talk, do NOT spin. | [15:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright i will get back to that comment thread later today after some saltmines. writing the article and reading the comments helped me quite a bit. the most important discovery was from mp calling out the b.s. 'worthy-because-worthless' reasoning that was underlying my "his strategy to stay safely seated on his throne and keep the council well indoctrinated" | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok; possibly "next year" even, no hurry. | [15:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: erm i need to clarify that is a light new years reference and not stinging sarcasm lol | [15:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ that is a malformed q : you are saying that it's okay if I get to it tomorrow, correct? | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha; yes, it's okay if you get to it tomorrow, no worries. | [15:26] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014287 – I wasn't using the <, but I changed those << for << and that indeed solved it, thank you! | [16:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 04:53:15 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Dec-2019#1014265 – possibly it gets confused by those < < that remained as such, try making them < since you do that for the rest anyway, right? | [16:03] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014289 – yeah, I let myself get caught in, "this should be so simple, wtf am I overlooking ?" | [16:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 04:57:24 diana_coman: dorion_road: also, don't bang head alone for that long – come in here and someone will bang your head for you if needed – or otherwise help you out way faster, you know? | [16:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: While I'm doing DNS things, did you have the minigame.biz restored anywhere? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: sadly no; it's only logs.minigame.biz that lobbes handles and so it's up. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: aren't those/the other < normally handled by jfw's script? ie did you just find a bug in jfw's script in fact? | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't use his logotron2wp script there, but won't neglect to use it moving forward. | [16:45] |
#ossasepia Logs for 30 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Another long 12h+ grind on TheFleet that went into the night. I did my writing too but no Spanish. I can connect a fleet to small networks, but networks have a max-conn-per-host limit that when passed boots all my bots. So my max channels per ip is (max-conn-per-host * num-chans-per-nick) until I find some trick. Otherwise, I learned a bit about error handling and threading today in CL. I'll publish the det | [03:48] |
| whaack: | ails tomorrow in my article. | [03:48] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Dec-2019#1014261 – exactly. | [04:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-29 18:36:18 whaack: diana_coman: i see, they're the half baked notions i wish to be true that I leave in my head unchallenged | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Dec-2019#1014265 – possibly it gets confused by those < < that remained as such, try making them < since you do that for the rest anyway, right? | [04:53] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-29 19:32:46 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Dec-2019#1014149 << done. however, I seem to be tripping on a bizarre mp-wp bug. a </strong> tag is being dropped upon serving the comment. when I edit the comment it's there, but upon saving it, it's dropped. I've been banging my head for the last 90 mins without any | [04:53] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: also, don't bang head alone for that long – come in here and someone will bang your head for you if needed – or otherwise help you out way faster, you know? | [04:57] |
| diana_coman: | btw, you might want to use a html validator as it will point out unclosed tags and other such things that tend to end up in weird errors. | [04:58] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014283 – what tends to be the range for those num-chans-per-nick and max-conn-per-host ? | [05:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 03:48:02 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: Another long 12h+ grind on TheFleet that went into the night. I did my writing too but no Spanish. I can connect a fleet to small networks, but networks have a max-conn-per-host limit that when passed boots all my bots. So my max channels per ip is (max-conn-per-host * num-chans-per-nick) until I find some trick. Otherwise, I learned a bit about error handling and threading today in CL. I'll publish the det | [05:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: 3-5 connections per host and 120 max-chans-per-nick is what i've seen, but I have not iterated through the channels. there is no command afaik to get these numbers – i have to keep going until i hit an error. | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what/why is the work on this so far eating that much time? It seems rather excessive from here. | [11:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Are you asking 'why put that much time in a single day?' or 'why is the logger not up and running yet?' | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I'm asking what took 12h+ and why is it a grind? | [11:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 03:48:02 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: Another long 12h+ grind on TheFleet that went into the night. I did my writing too but no Spanish. I can connect a fleet to small networks, but networks have a max-conn-per-host limit that when passed boots all my bots. So my max channels per ip is (max-conn-per-host * num-chans-per-nick) until I find some trick. Otherwise, I learned a bit about error handling and threading today in CL. I'll publish the det | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | so neither of your guesses there, really :) | [11:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: first, grind was a poor choice of words, since grind implies lots of tedious work (if i had manually connected to each network and figured out their connections-per-host etc. then that would be a grind) | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, that's what it suggested and part of why I asked the question. | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: What I did in the 12h was change trinque's bot to have a setting to connect with unauthed nicks and implemented make-fleetbot and fleetbot-connect-thread. One big time sink was I banged my head a bit on handling errors within threads. Another was then figuring out what was causing the errors sent by the networks | [11:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the discussion with trinque yesterday made me reevaluate my methodology with cl. cl+slime+emacs = the 'wonderful ability' to have a hotkey to take a function and put it inside the REPL so you can test it in isolation. but yesterday I bet I could point to hours lost 'masturbating' by firing off functions in the repl instead of reading my source and improving it | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that's exactly what it sounded like, indeed; and your statement yesterday re looking for code doing this or that was also a red flag. | [11:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note that testing something is *not* going to do a whole lot re understanding that something, esp not by itself; there are quite a few layers on this, hm. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | the point with using trinque's bot to start with was precisely to not end up with repeated 12h+ days on this but I suspect you have some very inefficient habits either programming in general or unknown language specifically. | [11:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it's a mixture of the two imo | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now the question is whether the reason you find it more pleasant writing in lisp is precisely because it feeds those bad habits, you know? | [11:44] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-29 whaack: trinque: First, I find it more pleasant writing in lisp. Second, I like the cultural aspect of a (present day) more niche language. Then for problems with python: i find the single line lambdas a strange requirement, and not having tail call optimization is lame (although i admit i can't think of many/any cases where that's been a problem) | [11:44] |
| whaack: | mhm | [11:45] |
| whaack: | trinque's qs were a good wake up call. ~ 'oh yeah you like lisp, are you going to bet your work/career/life/etc. on that feeling?' | [11:46] |
| whaack: | and the 'machine gun' programming language is nice, for about 10 seconds before it finds a way to jam. i have my handicap autocomplete on + jump to func definition + repl etc. these help, kind of. but guess what happens when i fire off a thread to connect to a network and the network returns an error? all of the sudden I can't even edit the file i'm working on because my emacs is locking up when it searches the environment for symb | [11:54] |
| whaack: | ols to autocomplete to | [11:54] |
| whaack: | but a bigger problem than the above is that I turn a blind eye to problems like it because i've found the 'sekret weapon language' meant for the smart kids frustrated with the world | [11:59] |
| whaack: | dorion_road and jfw: would you be able to meet for coffee if I came to Panama City sometime between Jan 14th-Jan19th? booking my border run is way overdue | [12:27] |
| whaack: | bbl, off to Santa Cruz | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014311 – heh, this sounds like you need a whole lot more experience to end up with the wisdom to simplify your own workbench. | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 11:54:52 whaack: and the 'machine gun' programming language is nice, for about 10 seconds before it finds a way to jam. i have my handicap autocomplete on + jump to func definition + repl etc. these help, kind of. but guess what happens when i fire off a thread to connect to a network and the network returns an error? all of the sudden I can't even edit the file i'm working on because my emacs is locking up when it searches the environment for symb | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Dec-2019#1014313 – yeah, too many blind eyes even, heh. | [15:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-30 11:59:11 whaack: but a bigger problem than the above is that I turn a blind eye to problems like it because i've found the 'sekret weapon language' meant for the smart kids frustrated with the world | [15:24] |
#ossasepia Logs for 29 Dec 2019
| whaack: | argh. my power is out, and since my monitor is the only source of light i have started a bug festival at my desk. | [00:13] |
| whaack: | sets up distracting lamps and flashlights | [00:14] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/29/wh-review-of-week-11-dec-22nd-dec-28th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 11 (Dec 22nd – Dec 28th) | [01:39] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/29/wh-plan-for-week-12-dec-30th-jan-5th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan for Week 12 (Dec 30th – Jan 5th) | [01:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Not a successful day. I spent 4hr 15 min finishing my article, about 1hr on TheFleet (which was just reading CL notes) and then 1.5hr on the plan + review for this week. I surfed for 1hr for some exercise, I also had to do an operation to get the router hooked into my UPS when the power went out because my phone's backup internet ran out of data. (the router was previously placed in my landlord's home and I | [01:57] |
| whaack: | 've been connected through an ethernet cable through the wall.) | [01:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is that your router or your landlord's router? | [07:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it's the landlord's router | [09:35] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: In the case I can't find isopropyl alcohol, for the citrus solvent, am i looking for the state stuff used as paint thinner? | [10:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Only use citrus stuff if it is specifically labeled for removing thermal grease. If you can't find isopropyl, ethyl works, but get the highest concentration you can. Check pharmacies and hardware stores. As an absolute last resort "ronsonol" fuel sold for petrol lighters may be used with extreme caution. | [10:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Don't use automotive gasoline because it'll have metalic salts added to improve its octane. Just because they don't lead the gasoline anymore doesn't mean they don't dope it with a bunch of magnesium and manganese. | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | The reason why high concentration alcohols are favored is they can be completely cleaned off the surface, and they evaporate completely. A lesser paint stripper might leave some residue. Absolutely do not use the traditional dichloromethane paint strippers, because you need your brain in good health. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I have 80\% ethyl with me right now | [10:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you don't find better, that can work with greater precaution to keep it from going where it isn't wanted, and more time to evaporate. | [10:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's also require a bit more… not necessarily elbow grease, but… knuckle grease? | [10:54] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Okay if I resort to the ethyl then I would take the CPU out of the motherboard to clean it, correct? | [10:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Mine CPUs have usually been soldered onto the motherboard for being laptops, but taking the CPU out should make it easier to manage. | [10:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | In anycase, make sure your workbench is clean and dry. Contamination is the enemy. | [10:58] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: noted | [10:59] |
| whaack: | trinque: I need to use ~90\% of ircbot and ~50\% of logbot. For my modified ircbot, I need to remove all the authentication logic and replace it with always connecting with a random nick. As to the code from logbot I plan to modify the sql schema + the insert calls to include a column "network" that represents the irc network the logs are from. I plan to fork ircbot, and make something like ircbot-unauthed, and then my fleetbot will | [11:31] |
| whaack: | extend ircbot-unauthed. For the logic from logbot, I will just copy + modify what I need into fleetbot.lisp instead of extending logbot or making a fork. If there is a derp in my design please let me know. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | I don't plan to include the outbox either, as these logbots plan to be silent. diana_coman if you think these bots need to be able to speak plz let me know | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, no need for bots to speak. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why not your own router? | [11:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had my own router (that they provided for me) but it was just acting as a ~switch because there's only one phone line for the building. I needed to take their router (which is also a modem) and put it in my apartment and then run a long phone jack into their building. | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | I see. | [11:44] |
| trinque: | whaack: why not modify the thing such that you can enable/disable auth, rather than forking? | [11:48] |
| trinque: | that seems like an entirely reasonable feature, i.e. if there's nil supplied for password, don't auth | [11:48] |
| trinque: | I just never implemented this option because I had no need for it | [11:49] |
| whaack: | trinque: okay my thought process was to keep ircbot as light as possible but you're right this feature is reasonable and shouldn't increase the LOC by much if at all | [11:50] |
| trinque: | I'll be happy to review changes for ya too. | [12:00] |
| trinque: | incidentally this is a tool I want, a commentary tool for vpatches. | [12:01] |
| trinque: | bbl | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: that sort of tool is part of what I had in mind when last reviewing V use ; I didn't find yet the time to think it through fully so as to start getting it moving but it's certainly needed, yes. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: beliefs may be cuddly and warm but they will fuck you quite predictably ~all times in the end. | [18:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i see, they're the half baked notions i wish to be true that I leave in my head unchallenged | [18:36] |
| dorion_road: | waves from maui | [19:27] |
| BingoBoingo: | waves from Montevideo | [19:29] |
| trinque: | burps from austin | [19:32] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Dec-2019#1014149 << done. however, I seem to be tripping on a bizarre mp-wp bug. a </strong> tag is being dropped upon serving the comment. when I edit the comment it's there, but upon saving it, it's dropped. I've been banging my head for the last 90 mins without any | [19:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-27 11:03:51 diana_coman: dorion_road: you should add that talk re http://dorion-mode.com/2019/12/some-reasons-contributing-to-tmsr-os-is-ev/ to the comments there, where it belongs. | [19:32] |
| dorion_road: | success. | [19:32] |
| whaack: | trinque: I would like to catch errors that are being signaled from threads I've spawned off with ircbot-connect-thread. The errors are various but mostly I need to catch SIMPLE-STREAM-ERROR when I get booted from a server. lmk if you have a method for this or if you think it's a bad strat to begin with. | [21:38] |
| trinque: | I mean, ircbot-connect-thread just does ircbot-connect in a thread | [21:42] |
| trinque: | it's just a helper method, mostly for repl play | [21:43] |
| trinque: | why would you not implement your error handling in ircbot-connect :around ? | [21:44] |
| trinque: | probably wrapping read-message-loop | [21:45] |
| whaack: | trinque: handling the error in ircbot-connect :around seems to be a good idea. I just need to know the threads will die gracefully. Maybe they do that on their own and think they're interfering with the rest of the process because my repl is firing the debugger up | [21:51] |
| trinque: | if they gave ya a debugger, didn't exit gracefully | [21:56] |
| trinque: | whaack: what's the idea, you fork a bunch of threads, then do something once they're terminated? | [21:56] |
| trinque: | broadly, sounds like a list of threads you loop over periodically, taking action when they're all in a terminal state, or you're tired of waiting, w/e makes sense in context. | [21:57] |
| trinque: | and just to point out, if you were pasting me context I would have a better idea of what you're trying to make | [21:57] |
| whaack: | trinque: Let's say a network has 360 channels. I need to park a nick in all 360, but the network has a a 120 channel cap per nick. So I make 3 threads connecting to all the channels. If a thread drops I would like to be able to restart it. | [21:59] |
| trinque: | got it, so you're actually going to have an ircbot in each thread. | [22:00] |
| trinque: | so yep, implement error handling and reconnection as stated, and then w/e channel-joining as hooks in the connection lifecycle, should be about it | [22:01] |
| whaack: | trinque: here are the "scribbles of my notebook" Idk if it's worth your time to read since it's an unpolished mess but since you asked for context. The function in question is "set-sail" but I am pretty sure i understand my problem, the handler-case has to be inside of the function that is passed to sb-thread:make-thread http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=vfsr | [22:08] |
| whaack: | i'll also have to consider errors being thrown by the ping thread | [22:11] |
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I worked a few extra hours on TheFleet project today, close to 12h. I did about 2hr of writing, no Spanish. I have some good news. I was lucky to figure out that the servers that returned IRC-ERR_NOTREGISTERED-MESSAGE in response to /list were complaining because I didn't wait for them to acknowledge my random nick. In other words, very few / no networks require you register to issue /list. I have a list of | [02:17] |
| whaack: | just under 700,000 channels right now. I am missing channels from roughly 100 networks. They mostly offline, but some have a few rules that are messing up my script, such as "you must be connected for 60s before grabbing the channel list" | [02:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not bad; do take & keep notes re networks' various requirements, as they will surely come in handy at a later time too. | [05:33] |
| diana_coman: | you'll have quite a nice article coming out of all this too. | [05:33] |
| adlai: | unsolicited advice, for whaack: copying guitar tabulature is not sufficient cause for owning a dedicated printer; moreover, your musicianship will likely benefit from time spent reading and writing the scores yourself, and your finer musculature might benefit from a wider variety of cramps. | [16:46] |
| adlai: | wonders whether the truly manic superhackers can typeset tabulature so that the inkjet's servomotors provide appropriate percussive accompaniment while the human practices from an earlier copy | [16:51] |
| whaack: | adlai: what do you mean my finer musculature would benefit from a wider variety of cramps? | [17:04] |
| trinque: | he's doing his idiot adlai schtick where he breaks the fourth wall and talks to the tv audience for laughs. | [17:04] |
| whaack: | ah | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | adlai: unsolicited advice is for writing on your own blog, not in here; do write in here when you have some unsolicited but useful work you want to showcase. | [17:08] |
| adlai: | thank you for the admonition, lady of the oldcoloredskeletonphotochannel | [17:09] |
| whaack: | trinque: do you understand how/when (format t "example") decides to flush its output to the slime repl? I had to put the form (finish-output nil) after it in one of my loops to get it to print | [17:09] |
| whaack: | another q is when the debugger throws an error it has the option [*PROCESS-INPUT] Continue reading input, what is the difference between this and [ABORT] Return to SLIME's top level. | [17:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: You've got a comment | [20:19] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I saw! and am typing a response rn | [20:20] |
| trinque: | whaack: start reading here, and click the blue stuff https://eklitzke.org/stdout-buffering | [21:23] |
| trinque: | second question would be easier with moar context, i.e. a paste of the contents of repl | [21:25] |
| trinque: | maybe they're equivalent, and the abort option is common to all slime session errors. | [21:26] |
| whaack: | trinque: i'll read the link. the process input / abort is a general q. i see both options appear during errors. I would like to be able to send a signal that pauses evaluation (say i.e. mid loop) , be able to type stuff into the repl to change the environment, and then continue the evaluation | [21:27] |
| whaack: | process input looked like what I wanted, but yeah it appears to be the same as the abort option | [21:28] |
| trinque: | https://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Debugger.html | [21:32] |
| trinque: | typically folks set a breakpoint, let their program run until it hits the breakpoint, and then fiddle around using the debugger. | [21:33] |
| trinque: | this isn't unique to common lisp | [21:33] |
| whaack: | trinque: the first link cleared up an important confusion, ty. | [21:58] |
| whaack: | i often redirect to files and tail -f them, and i now know why output is often delayed. | [21:59] |
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Like I've done in previous weeks, I let the article I wrote eat up the entire day. (I reread An Outpost of Progress again before writing it.) With your permission, I would like a break from writing tomorrow so I can put hours into The Fleet. That would break the one-article-per-day assignment, but it will help keep this week's schedule more aligned in terms of hours distributed to different tasks. | [00:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for TheFleet project, all I got done was getting irrsi setup so I can redirect the output of /list to a file. I still need to write a script that connects to each irc network and issus the /list command, putting the output in a file tied to the corresponding irc network. | [00:20] |
| DKordic: | I will kick myself off the channel. | [05:07] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/27/sr-the-write-off-from-the-logs/ << Young Hands Club — SR – The Write Off from the Logs | [06:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how long did you spend on that article? | [06:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: according to your current plan, there are already 8hr45 minutes on TheFleet today so there is no point in making it more than that really; just keep with the 1.5hour on writing or if you really must let it spill over, let it be into the 1 hour of Spanish and certainly not more than that. | [06:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i spent 1h rereading, another ~.5hour on the outline, and then about 4.5 hours on the body + .5 hours proofread after time | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | hm, so 1.5 hours that should have been on previous days and otherwise 5 hours instead of 1.5 on writing; do the 1.5 or max 2.5 instead of Spanish today but you can get back to it tomorrow ie publish every other day. | [09:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ^ | [09:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay so to clarify going forward 1.5hours or 2.5 hours HARD LIMIT (that also means no Spanish), and this now happens every other day | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the publishing happens every other day; meaning: you can actually spend 5 hours of writing one single article if you really find you must, except those 5 hours will be spread over 2 days and eating up the Spanish. | [09:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: got it | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | we'll review it at the end of next week. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's on your reading list/do you still get to read other than yesterday's sort of had-to-re-read session? | [09:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i haven't been reading much. last time i read was waiting in line for the bank in Santa Cruz. I am about 60\% through the second read of The Odyssey | [09:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but why not? | [09:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: sorry only 40\% through, i just checked. I haven't been reading because I've been pressed for time | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | hm; if it's the same by mid/end-January, it will have to be looked at as well; but ok for now. | [09:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay, i'll use a 30 minute reading session before I go to sleep as a reward for an efficient day of no spinning. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | sounds good to me. | [09:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, how's the 2nd read of the odyssey compared to the 1st? | [09:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it has been much more enjoyable on the second read | [09:45] |
| diana_coman: | heh, quite as it goes indeed; good to hear it, too. | [09:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i can focus on other details cuz I know what damn island the man is on | [09:46] |
| diana_coman: | it can take a while to get familiar with that whole other world indeed. | [09:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, i still couldn't tell you the names of the islands, i just have a better understanding of the chronology of events | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: maybe get/print a map, you know? I'm sure you can even find one online or something. | [09:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: not a bad idea, i have no printer though | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | don't you need one at all otherwise? | [09:53] |
| whaack: | the only need i've thought of for it is printing out some scores for the guitar, which i'm not really playing much anymore anyways. but yes i think it may be a good investment. | [09:54] |
| whaack: | In other things I should mention, I've been getting slight pains in my pinky and ring finger. Interestingly, this has happened on both hands at the same time. The pain is not too bad at all and only lasts for a short time. But I am concerned about emacs eventually destroying my hands. I bought the https://ergodox-ez.com/ ergodox keyboard which in theory is more ergonomic. But I type / navigate so slowly with that keyboard that I wa | [10:08] |
| whaack: | nt to wait until I am using it with my new pc. (I also want to wait because I currently can't install the software to update the keybinds on my mac) | [10:08] |
| whaack: | (The pain does not occur at the exact same time on both hands, it just has recently started to occur occasionally on either hand) | [10:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there are some exercises against carpal tunnel syndrome, you might want to look those up; but at any rate, if it hurts…stop doing it, you know? find what works for you there, keyboard and setup included. | [10:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i know, i do not muscle through the pain. i take my hands off the keyboard and wait for it to subside or at least start typing slowly | [10:12] |
| whaack: | i'll take a look into exercises against carpal tunnel syndrome | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, if you just take a break and then get back to doing precisely the same thing, that's not "if it hurts, stop doing it". | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | figure out what's the cause and make the needed changes, don't just basically train to stop noticing it. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I haven't / don't have this sort of problem and I'm not even using any extraordinary keyboard. | [10:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright i'll record myself typing and see if i can catch a particularly bad pattern. I've also been typing the same way for years on ordinary keyboards without ever having any issues. And even now the pain is quite subtle. | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | maybe it's just the change of pattern exactly. | [10:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it did start happening when i started using the new ergodox keyboard | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then give it some adjusting time and/or try to make the change more gradual if possible. | [10:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: will do | [10:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | I suspect the "theoretically more ergonomic" keyboards might only actually be more ergonomic for those with pre-wrecked hands/wrists. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I can see that angle tbh. | [10:35] |
| whaack: | I buy the idea that a split keyboard is nicer because it lets you keep your chest open as you type. but i don't see the other benefits of this keyboard. | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you can wear it around your neck from the images I saw at the link you gave – maybe that's the idea? :D | [10:40] |
| whaack: | lolz damn i am doing it all wrong | [10:40] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: you use this keyboard, how do you lay it out? do you put it at angle / what's the height of your desk / did you have keybindings you can post? etc. | [10:42] |
| whaack: | do you have* keybindings | [10:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: When jfw comes back you should ask him what my workstation looks like. It's seen all 2009 of my Qntra pieces (out of 2759 total) clacked out. | [10:47] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: um..why would I ask him and not you? | [10:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well he's seen it, and jfw has the advantage over me in being a thoughtful observer not that is not myself. It's a Lenovo X120e 11.6" notebook I keep on top of an aluminum wedge. | [10:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Over other laptops I've used… it has the great advantage of the keyboard going all the way to the edge of the body on both sides. Maybe I'm just maladapted, but I find it a very comfortable arrangement. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Do you have a separate monitor? | [10:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Not at this time. | [10:53] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: that seems an easy way to have your neck always bending slightly downwards | [10:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, it's on a wedge, and it does help me to break gaze from the screen with some regularity. | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it might be more important to actually take regular breaks for that matter; every hour move away, that sort of thing. | [10:59] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: makes sense. i was scarred by seeing a 'master chef' in Japan whose neck looked permanently fixed downwards ostensibly from always bending over to look at what he was cooking. | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you should add that talk re http://dorion-mode.com/2019/12/some-reasons-contributing-to-tmsr-os-is-ev/ to the comments there, where it belongs. | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I usually get up with that frequency to get water or something, but i'll make a point to ensure i do. | [11:04] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I suppose ergonomically I use my workstation more like a typewriter that happens to have a screen than the way gamers or other "monitor immersed" folks do. There are times where I can stare at the screen, but normally I'm taking my eyes off the screen with some frequency. | [11:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I may return to scrapping netsplit.de for the channel names. I think that may be easier than connecting to all the networks and issuing the /list command. The problem with /list is that (1) i still need to find a way to format the output into files. I tried using irssi, setting it to log to a file, and then setting the startup script to issue the /list command | [11:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but there are a few headache with this. first, some networks require identification to issue /list, so i need to have my script do the entire registration dance, which afaik could be different for different channels | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean by "format the output into files"? | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know how reliable/up to date the list on netsplit.de is and/or whether complete. | [11:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to issue the /list command for the 260 or so networks. I want a script that is going to connect to each network, issue the /list command, and save the output to a file. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | that's the main issue with scrapping that: it's from a secondary source while direct source is entirely available so there has to be a very good reason for ditching direct source really. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: isn't that file the logfile anyway? | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover, one of your bots can do that since it will have to connect to a network anyway, I don't see how is this different. | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | if you have a bot that will connect to the network to join channels 1-100, then that same bot can first simply connect and get the list. | [11:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the logbot doesn't have to issue commands. i tried for a second to have one of my bots issue the /list command and save the response, but i ran into a problem and then figured it would be easier to use irssi. but I have not had luck with irssi so I think I'm going to go back to using my bots + cl-irc, and anyways it will get me more familiar with the library. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ugh, ditching a problem because "that might be easier" is not a sound approach. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, it tends to end up in this sort of back and forth over however many alternative "it might be easier" approaches you can imagine, with the overall net result that you spend actually more time and still have 0 to show for it. | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, I don't get how is it that the logbot doesn't have to issue commands; at the very least it has to issue "/join #chan" , doesn't it? | [12:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes it does but that command is in the cl-irc library.. and now I realize I should be searching for the /list command wrapper | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh; listen, don't just go like that after "what seems easier"; at the very least bounce off the idea in here, can't hurt. | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | if anything, the optimisation should be about return (gain/effort), not about min(effort) even assuming that you evaluate that min(effort) properly in the first place. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as for the knowing when to back out of a strategy and try another one, i know that flip flopping between possible solutions without putting the effort to see one through to the end is a bad strategy. but there is some point where you need to back out of a strategy. for example, i spent 30mins trying to properly undo the zip ties holding the PSU cables. but they were too tiny and awkwardly placed, so i gave up and just | [12:07] |
| whaack: | snipped them. i think that was the right call | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: certainly; but that example you give is quite a different sort (and your solution even has a well-known historical name – the Gordian Knot, as solved by Alexander). | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | it's also not just "flip flopping between possible solutions without putting the effort to see one through to the end"; it's mainly and firstly about *how you choose* which solution to try and for how long, that's the important part. | [12:12] |
| whaack: | right, that is difficult | [12:14] |
| whaack: | but i believe i should have stuck with trying to do it with my bots, because even while stuck i'm gaining more familiarity with CL and the codebase i'll be using. I don't know if i'll benefit from learning a bit of about setting up scripts with irssi | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: quite right, you should have stuck with trying to do it with your bots, yes. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | see, you do know how to choose; you just need to actually… choose to choose :P | [12:17] |
| whaack: | mhm makes sense. i ignored the fact that i would benefit regardless from struggling with the ircbot solution because I believe (incorrectly, in retrospect) that it would be easier to use irssi | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | easier != correct choice; for one thing indeed, you can't even truly know upfront for sure which one is easier and for the other, choose the right thing, not the easy thing, remember? (because "easy" in the moment has its own mid/long term costs really so there's no "easy" like that, no). | [12:22] |
| diana_coman: | basically be more intelligently-lazy not stupidly-lazy :P | [12:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha yes this was laziness-from-stupidness. it certainly wasn't avoidance going to irssi, i much prefer to be playing around in my slime repl then learning a scripting language of a command line tool. | [12:24] |
| whaack: | than* learning | [12:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i got a channel list for freenode safe and sound in an sexpr via cl-irc, now to iterate through the other channels. First I need to get the list of all networks into an sexpr, then figure out how to connect to networks without registered nicks (logbot is config'd to require one), then I need to get as many chan lists for all of them as I did for freenode, then I need to see which networks failed to get a chan list (bec | [14:48] |
| whaack: | ause some require a connection w/ a registered account to issue the /list command.) Then I will figure out a strategy to get a nick registered for every channel and then finally grab their channel lists as well. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you mean to iterate through the other networks? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | won't you need to register nicks anyway? | [15:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i was planning on using unregistered nicks | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | if in the end you *still* need to register a nick, what's the point in going now through connect-unregistered and then check fails and register? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, but if that doesn't work for all, then you'll still need to figure out how to register, right? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | sure, automate it but either it works unregistered for ~all or it has to be done. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | well it is possible it's <10 or so, it did not take much time to get the randomize nick working | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then you should have said *that*; ok, run it with randomized and see on how many it fails, sure. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | kk my current task is getting the list of servers/ports in an sexpr | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [15:50] |
| whaack: | i am trying to find another way to get the list, but it looks like i'm going to scrape netsplite.de with python again | [15:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=FeE0 Out of the 596 networks I found the server info for 495 of them on netsplit.de . I only looked for servers that did not require ssl. I only stored the first hostname/port I found. Further work including all information for the individual linknames. An example of the data I'm scraping can be seen here: https://netsplit.de/servers/?net=IRCnet | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: looks fine for a start, go ahead. | [18:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have the function that adds the list of all channels to each entry in the list above containing network names, hosts, and ports. however each network has a chance of failing for some reason or another. so it seems a perfect time to go through CL's famous restart system which i'm reading about here http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/beyond-exception-handling-conditions-and-restarts.html | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you'll have to keep me up to date on whatever CL does or does not do; I'm not all that into CL really (I enjoyed functional programming sometime ~15 years ago but even at that time it was more Scheme and Haskell than Lisp anyway); so make sure you communicate clearly on this, please. | [18:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: noted. i'm running my code that iterates through all networks grabbing their channel list. there is a function grab-all-channels-for-network that takes a hostname port pair as a parameter. It is supposed to return a list of channels obtained from the server, but for various reasons it can fail. CL has a system similar to a "try / catch" block, except the "catch" can be a template with various options. when the operator | [18:34] |
| whaack: | hits the error while running the loop in their repl, evaluation freezes and the operator can pick from the various options (known as "restarts") to continue from. for my case, I want to create two options for when grab-channel-all-channels-for-network fails ~ "try again" and "return an empty list". | [18:34] |
| whaack: | dang, my alphabetical-order channel-grabber exhausted my cl's environment allocated memory at "ZwergenIRC" , so close! | [22:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I got pulled out for Christmas celebration by neighbors again. It was not a productive day. I only produced my daily article and dissembled part of my machine. I still have to take out the CPU + motherboard. | [02:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: as for the parts, my ordered Seasonic Focus 850 PSU turned out to be a Corsair RM850 , and my ordered RAM 2x Corsair 8GB Vengeance became 2x Patriot 8GB Viper | [02:43] |
| whaack: | motherboard+graphics card are what i ordered. cpu looks correct although i'll know for sure when i get the heat sink off tomorrow | [02:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: lol @ the morphing parts, it's the "our best effort when we feel like it" approach there at gamingpc. | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, dissemble != disassemble ffs; dissembling computers is what pcgamingcr has been doing apparently, hopefully you don't intend to follow in their footsteps now; stop dissembling (even computers!) and start dis-assembling, will you? | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | !o uptime | [09:24] |
| ossabot: | diana_coman: time since my last reconnect : 11d 12h 39m | [09:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: heh, noted re dissemble vs. dis-assemble | [10:59] |
| whaack: | heatsink removed, looks like they put on some thermal paste, i'm going to clean it off now and then put on my own when i put it back together. | [12:05] |
| whaack: | i removed the thermal paste, but there is a thin barely visible layer still there. is there alright, or should i take extra steps to clean that off? | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what did you remove it with? | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should clean it off properly, yes. | [12:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: a thin porous cleaning cloth, one that i believe won't leave any tiny debris | [12:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Either a rubbing alcohol (90\%+) or specialist citrus oil based solvents work. | [12:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Coffee filters makefine lint free cloths for this purpose | [12:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | Usually I use a cotton swap to dab a bit of solvent on to the paste, then use the coffee filters to remove the solvent/paste emulsion. | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | as BingoBoingo says really; whaack just the cloth is not enough, you need some 90\%+ alcohol really. | [12:34] |
| whaack: | alright i gotta make a trip to the store then | [12:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | has used Q-tip soaked in solvent to take bigger crustier chunks of paste off, but they aren't lint free so something lint free needs to follow. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, do you have otherwise what you need to keep your computer(s) clean? | [12:38] |
| whaack: | probably not | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | lol; at the very least some compressed air canisters, some 99\% isopropyl alcohol for your cleaning of thermal paste, lint-free cloths. | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: alright so operation build computer is paused until i make another trip to Santa Cruz. I could take out the cpu and motherboard but from my understanding it is easier to clean the cpu when it is locked into place | [12:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as a basic rule, whenever you plan to do something, the first step should be to figure out what you need as tools & consumables & working area. | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you might still find out there's more to it than you thought but cleaning the thermal paste is not a surprise in any way, ahem. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: how wasi supposed to know that there would be preapplied thermal paste? the parts were supposed to be in boxes. | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: once you saw it was assembled though. | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that in time you'll need to disassemble and reapply anyway. | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | granted, not every month or something, lol. | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, as a basic engineering rule, for everything you plan to apply/assemble, you should have from starters everything required for the removal/disassemble really. | [12:57] |
| diana_coman: | because mistakes can happen. | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does the above make sense? | [12:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes, have a game plan for each task that includes the ability to 'undo' steps along the way. | [13:00] |
| diana_coman: | aha; at time you might even want to "undo" simply for practice & check, esp on things you do for the first time; it's up to you when/if/how much of this you do, but allow yourself *the option* to do it if you want/need to. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyways, since pc assembly takes a break, what makes it to be done instead of it from the "time permitting" list? | [13:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: back to working on The Fleet | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | ah, more time for that; works. | [13:05] |
| whaack: | well the computer was projected to be built by even yesterday so as per the schedule I'm behind on TheFleet as well. | [13:06] |
| whaack: | (though the planning was done was before knowing it was preassembled) | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why didn't you update the plan though when it turned out you got a preassembled box instead of components? | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: not updating my schedule is a mistake that has continued from last week, under the idea it is 'unnecessary overhead' | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you don't update it then your end of week review should note you failed to deliver what you promised and as a basic consequence, next week there's no guitar and no surfing and no spanish; easy. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack. i will update it and comment on what i failed so far. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [13:25] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012653 << I have sporadic notes in my journal. Did not think it important to blog. i am working on extracting stuff to publish from project work anyway. | [15:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 15:09:10 diana_coman: shrysr: why not write anything on your blog about all those things that went on, anyway? even "hey, I'm in Vancouver, hoooray!" or something ("I'm alive" works too, lol) | [15:08] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: Re the question of the extent to which I want to follow you and about bringing 'myself': I think my efforts need to be elsewhere. My focus atm is entirely on setting up a stable source of income + figuring out the consultancy projects and the jobs I'm targeting. | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Sep-2019#1002986 "as of today" and just about until you're out of trouble, right? | [15:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 17:13:19 shrysr: the homework. fwiw: there are others i shown reverence who dont have 10\% of patience here and who've sent inept 1 line replies to my hours+++ of composed emails or repeated Q's…just so you know: i have no doubt as of today that diana_coman has my full attention and efforts as well. | [15:22] |
| shrysr: | till i'm outta trouble and can figure things out yea | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: if you are indeed sure that this is not about your ego and not-liking-hierarchy and all that jazz (that got you already in trouble before and will do it again, predictably) and if you are indeed sure that your efforts truly need to be forever elsewhere, then I'll write you off entirely, sure. | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: neah, it was that I had your full attention and efforts only in theory only in reverence of the words-only-type and only for as long as it was convenient to you, sure. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | you can walk away from this but you don't get to dress it up as anything other than what it is and make sure you fully get that it's not a choice to easily undo at a later time when more convenient or whatever else. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | I can't even say that I see some way to undo at all but whatevers, never say never and all that. | [15:35] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: i don't see what is being dressed up. The reverence was there in the words and in actual and whatever effrots undertaken was with sincerity. But there are other considerations that bother me. These are things that I recognised slowly. You call it all that jazz, but yes – i do have a problem calling somebody king. WHere does ego come into the picture? | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: what do you think that problem is? | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | the "whatever efforts undertaken" amounted to little less than 0, do you realise? sure, with sincerity, as all those sort of good intentions for as long as convenient tend to go. | [15:38] |
| shrysr: | i still don't see why you call it convenient ?? | [15:39] |
| shrysr: | that problem is not due to ego | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: really; so enlighten me: what is it due to? | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | and how is it not convenient to ditch the previous promise that you'll get to work come Christmas? | [15:40] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: why is it necessary that i dont have a problem with the concept of there being a king here? | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: hm? necessary for what? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you haven't answered any of my questions. | [15:46] |
| shrysr: | re: promise and convenient – what is this work you mean? The premise of hte work was doing things to become the best version of myself. | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you know, for the same money you can "have a problem with the concept of gravity"; why do you think it's necessary that you don't have a problem with the concept of gravity? in general like that it's not even necessary really, you can choose to have a problem with anything you want; but realise that it doe NOT change what is, nor does it do anything other than give you more trouble in the long term, that's all. | [15:48] |
| shrysr: | Re: necessarry for your approval or for being here or participating etc for being a part of the republic. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: I never stated that necessary, you did. | [15:49] |
| shrysr: | i dont claim that myself having a problem with something changes the nature of the thing. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | you know, you used those months of silence to work yourself up into knots really. | [15:53] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Dec-2019#1014036 << i dont see the need for it. | [15:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-26 15:40:10 diana_coman: shrysr: really; so enlighten me: what is it due to? | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: understand that if I had a problem with people's problems, I wouldn't be any good at helping anyone learn anything. Learning is pretty much overcoming all sorts of problems, yeah. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: oh, *you* don't see any need for it, right. | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: do you have a problem now with me asking questions too? | [15:55] |
| shrysr: | YEs, learning is overcoming all sortsa probs. No. I do not have a problem with you asking questions. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: just with actually answering them? lolz. | [15:57] |
| shrysr: | lol. no, i'll try to answer them. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | I'm listening then for the answers to the questions I already asked. | [15:58] |
| shrysr: | I am sure that my efforts need to be elsewhere. I've tried to explain no choice has been made out of convenience.. | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | you can't explain that because it's simply not the case and quite plainly. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: anyway, just this question: are you sure you now want to precisely fuck off? Say simply yes and we're done. | [16:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 16:39:04 shrysr: you..and i was even annoyed that i needed that because I was afraid you'd just tell me to fuck off or disappear at some point. even with asciilifeform – i suddenly had a surge of reverence towards him after actually reading some of his posts several weeks down after popping in here. | [16:09] |
| shrysr: | well it is the case. putting my time and effort into my own survival and progress is not outta 'convenience' | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | sidelining part of what helped you get into that position in the first place IS CONVENIENCE. | [16:10] |
| shrysr: | what am i sidelining ? | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | it was fine while it was good and it's suddenly in the way when it's not good; the very definition of convenience, no matter what else you prefer to think. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: me. | [16:11] |
| shrysr: | I am not sidelining you. and fwiw: i have expressed my gratitude several times. ANd yes, talking to you helped me recover at that time. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: what do you imagine you are doing then when "oh, thank you for this time but now I'm busy"? | [16:18] |
| shrysr: | its not just abt 'busy'. | [16:22] |
| shrysr: | and i've been the same busy, its not like extra busy toda since i was supposed to pop up | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: eh, you can go on changing the meaning of words to suit you forever. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | yes, in your suddenly very busy schedule, there's no place or meaning for pesky me because of course; and sure, there wasn't any space all the way since the moment you got out just enough to be able to find the next hole at a higher comfort level but that's also fine because really, there is NO LINK between what you found useful and what you are not all that comfortable with, no, can't possibly be. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | this lack of place is also not sidelining because that wouldn't be nice and doesn't agree with your own view of yourself and therefore sure, NOT SIDELINING! | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | nor convenience, no. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | (and absolutely not at all related to ego either in any way because that would also not agree with the image you can live with, sure.) | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-26-Dec-2019#1014058 – all right, silence works perfectly fine as "yes"; hope you'll enjoy whatever comes out of this choice of yours. | [16:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-26 16:09:01 diana_coman: shrysr: anyway, just this question: are you sure you now want to precisely fuck off? Say simply yes and we're done. | [16:55] |
| shrysr: | I'm more concerned abt being honest here, than some self image. hmm, its not related to ego, because its not. I dont see the need to ack king, and if there is a Link as you say – then as of today – i'm not convinced it is a wholesome link, and I dont think it conforms to idea of republic. That being said – the utility i derived and was | [16:56] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-04 ossabot: (ossasepia) 2019-10-16 diana_coman: jfw: as to the republic as a whole, the fundamental aspect I'd say is the fact that it's a republic of men (ie individual agents, active and self-directed entities) | [16:56] |
| shrysr: | grateful for was of a different nature. W.r.t you having a place and meaning for me – 1. I don't see how the sorta projects I need to do are aligned with the work you need done here, and i've expressed that before. 2. you did have a great place + meaning – but my observations of the log in the past few months made me reconsider. These impressions did not form overnight, and it is not a convenient move | [16:56] |
| shrysr: | outta busy schedule. The schedule and the goals have been prety much the same, to become the best version of myself. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: neah; you are using my very words to describe what "you" meanwhile decided is something else because that's totally how it goes; next you'll soon find out I'm evil too, just wait a few minutes. | [17:04] |
| shrysr: | totally how it goes? does it ? | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | totally how you imagine it goes, yes. And so how you'll fit your narrative to fit because that's what you do. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | now go and enjoy your choice, there's nothing more to do here. | [17:06] |
| shrysr: | Well, just as what I imagine need not be true – the same applies to you. Yes, I will enjoy my choice :) thank you. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's "disassemble" really; I wrote it separate to highlight just why it's that one the word you need rather than "dissemble", that's all. | [17:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah okay, I must admit I think I got fucked by the spellchecker again here. I was pretty sure it was 'disassemble' originally, must have typo'd that one once and then trusted the spell checker from thereon out | [17:46] |
| whaack: | going forward I will dictionary the word whenever a situation like the above arises. | [17:47] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013900 – nice find, works indeed! | [04:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 18:59:12 whaack: I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [04:59] |
| diana_coman: | and Merry Christmas everyone! | [04:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: EOD sounds good, I'll read the article later today too. | [05:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/thefleet-a-systematic-exploration-of-the-irc-space/#comment-136 – it's all in there really but in short, automated processing & filtering first. | [06:04] |
| DKordic: | whaack: Check out https://tools.suckless.org/ii/ . I don't use it, C is a stupid joke. I found it interesting. | [07:09] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: suckless aka cat-v is not unknown around here; see http://logs.ossasepia.com/log-search?q=suckless&chan=trilema and http://trilema.com/2016/cat-vorg-adnotated/ | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: why won't you register a key with deedbot anyway? | [10:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack re not needing the interface. i'd much rather spend my time learning awk and/or R then making yet another webpage. | [11:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My interaction with the pcgamingcr rep unfortunately makes me think that there is a possibility you were right about them scamming me and selling me a used part. The dishonesty began with the SD card reader. Not only did they not tell me that it was missing before I went to go pick up the package, but they never told me to begin with that it was backordered. I gather once they knew I would be waiting for the RAM they f | [11:27] |
| whaack: | igured they could pretend everything else was in stock. The other glaring missing item that I did not realize is the FUCKING MOUSE AND KEYBOARD. I messaged them about that and they were like 'oh yeah same problem – out of stock.' But I don't believe them because when I was ordering I said something like any cheap mouse/keyboard will do, so I don't see why they would pick one that would need to be ordered. I think they just forgot a | [11:27] |
| whaack: | nd are lying. | [11:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: on top of all this, the rep dodges any question that makes him culpable, refuses to answer my calls, and ignores my requests to set a time to talk | [11:28] |
| whaack: | DKordic: If I can't find another way to get the channel data from the /list command, then this might come in handy. Other than that I don't see how it'd be useful for TheFleet. I would rather my data in an index'd postgres db than structured as a unix file tree. Thanks for the link | [12:07] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: This looks like something where hanbot might have some useful insights into how you can effectively pursue some sort of remedy | [12:58] |
| DKordic: | diana_coman: I have no idea what is a DeedBot :) . | [13:21] |
| DKordic: | Cryptography is SciFi for me. | [13:21] |
| whaack: | DKordic: deedbot is a tool of The Most Serene Republic that among other functions stores a set of gpg keys and provides a graph of ratings that owners of the keys have given to other keys. http://wot.deedbot.org/ | [13:34] |
| whaack: | DKordic: Without a registered gpg key, you have no identity. Whose to say you are the same DKordic that was here a couple of weeks ago? | [13:36] |
| DKordic: | Good point. ATM DeedBot doesn't seem interesting to me at all. | [13:45] |
| DKordic: | Not in the foreseeable future. | [13:46] |
| DKordic: | Re: cat-v.org: Yes, they are C programmers. | [13:49] |
| whaack: | hanbot: ^ Here is the quick summary of what BingoBoingo believes you may be able to give insight into. I spoke with a rep from pcgamingcr through Whatsapp for a week or so to establish a list of computer parts + accessories to order. When I picked up the package there were problems. First, they took the parts I ordered out of their boxes and assembled 90\% of a computer. As diana_coman mentioned I have no way to know if the parts th | [13:51] |
| whaack: | ey sold me are new. Second, there were items I ordered that were missing: an sd card reader, a mouse, and a keyboard. What I would like to do is (1) convince them to pay the extra to deliver to my door for the remaining parts OR get a speedy refund. (2) probe to see if the parts they sold me were new or used. (2) is albeit a bit silly because afaik all I can do is ask and use poker skills to see if they are lying. So far I have ask | [13:51] |
| whaack: | ed for an explanation as to why they did not inform me of the missing parts before i picked up the computer. They dodge every phrasing of the question, responding, "the parts are not there because they have not yet arrived from our manufacturer." | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re data, if the bot spits it out directly to db, you might even get away with cleaning in sql directly or something; you'll still find R useful afterwards for processing. | [14:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013918 – so why didn't you simply ask, you know? don't you *want* to find stuff out? | [14:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 13:21:19 DKordic: diana_coman: I have no idea what is a DeedBot :) . | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: there's the guide written for Eulora – you may still find useful the key generation + registration part. But seriously, you are way better off asking for stuff to do than silently hanging around. What is *not* sci-fi to you? | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013922 – this is militant ignorance speaking; the fact that it's not "interesting to you" means simply that you are totally clueless atm; it is *important* and therefore you should *get interested*, not derp about that oh noez, not interesting to me atm, as if you were some measure of interestingness in this world. | [14:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 13:45:23 DKordic: Good point. ATM DeedBot doesn't seem interesting to me at all. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what a mess; apparently in cr you either go to the shop or otherwise have a ton of trouble; what do they say about the missing parts, are you meant to wait indefinitely or what? | [14:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: they did not give a status update on the missing parts, they only said they would refund me if they can't get them. as mentioned before I suspect they have the keyboard+mouse and are lying about them being backordered, and i bet they are having trouble finding the SD card reader altogether | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it does sound very hard to believe they don't have *any* mouse and keyboard, for sure. | [14:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right, i asked them for any cheap mouse+keyboard, why would they pick something they don't have? and they didn't mention it when they admitted to not having the memory card reader. I think they simply forgot, and they have demonstrated by avoiding questions they will not admit their own fault | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you ask them now to ship whatever kbd and mouse? their "backorder" or whatevers is not your problem after all. | [14:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, i can do that now | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | iirc hanbot said she always picked the stuff up so possibly that's really ~the only way to avoid such mess in cr. | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's up to you really ie what do you want exactly as resolution to this mess? | [15:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The missing keyboard/mouse/memory card/ + preassembled computer bs, while quite annoying, is not so big a deal. I'll ask for a refund and have my mother whose visiting soon bring what I'm missing. I have a keyboard I should be able to use for now, and can otherwise go to Santa Cruz to get a keyboard/mouse. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | so then get the refund and be done with them; hurray for mothers everywhere otherwise :P | [15:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the only issue I care about, is whether or not the parts I bought are used or new. The question then is if I knew they were used, which I should assume is the case, do I want to argue for a full refund? My answer is no, the hassle will be way too much and I will still learn from building my own machine. Also, I'd much rather use a machine I put together with AMD over intel running a linux distro than a mac. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: kind of hard to actually know now; you can still ask them to ship to you the manuals because they should have them if new. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | and I guess you can press with a "if not manuals then it's 2nd hand so you take it back and refund me" or similar. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | did you check in the end that all parts are at least precisely what you ordered? | [15:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no, I'll do that today after I'm done with my article when I dissemble the machine | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [15:10] |
| DKordic: | diana_coman: Exactly, I am not a measure at all. | [15:22] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack, diana_coman : does cr have fascist customs, like e.g. BingoBoingostan ? cuz if not, i can eat coin & have any iron you like sent there | [15:36] |
| asciilifeform: | sent a crate of FG, back when mp was there, an' it arrived w/ 0 wank. tho admittedly this could have been blind luck | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: so are you getting interested in what matters, then? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I suspect this was a local flavour of mess-up really, nothign to do with customs as such. | [15:49] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: aite. but if fella is in the americas and wants irons that the aboriginals can't or won't stock, possibly can help. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: noted and thank you! | [15:52] |
| DKordic: | is looking at TMSR OS… | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: do you realise you *need* an identity as a pre-requisite for *everything* around here? | [15:56] |
| DKordic: | OK, I will be back one day. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: and you know, if you are looking at tmsr-os, you are in the right place; however, if you want to do more than just look forever, you'll have to speak up, ask and learn. | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what do you think that will do? why not do something now while you are here? | [15:57] |
| DKordic: | thinks… | [15:59] |
| hanbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Dec-2019#1013940 << indeed, and letting the sales end string you along for a week over chatting is the red flag to look out for in the future. i trust the chair people didn't hmm and haw and maybe they'll order an armrest here and glue it on plz wait an' see etc. sorry to hear you ran into such trouble tho'. i hope your box comes together soon, been an odyssey huh! | [16:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-25 14:59:58 diana_coman: iirc hanbot said she always picked the stuff up so possibly that's really ~the only way to avoid such mess in cr. | [16:31] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: idk what is the criteria for facist customs. They charge a large impuesto but afaik everything makes it through. Unless it is biomatter, then the environmentalist squad confiscates and torches it. | [16:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-23 18:22:07 whaack: diana_coman: I have a bad experience of going to Guatemala for a local artist to pick up four bags of Flor De Madera, a wood that is distorted through fungal growth. The customs agents took all four bags and torched the wood because we didn't have a paper saying that it was treated. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | hanbot: the chair people + cococo had some tiny quirks but relatively/retrospectively they were great to work with. especially cococo, they are the only business so far that has followed up on their offer to deliver to my door. | [17:05] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-24-Dec-2019#1013883 << thanks for the recommendation, I've yet to read Popper so will start with him when I start. | [17:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-24 13:09:22 diana_coman: dorion_road: btw, re Kant, if you just start reading philosophy, I recommend you start with Popper at least, it'll be both easier to follow and of more immediate interest to you I'd think. | [17:43] |
| whaack: | before I take apart and put back together the machine assembled by the ticos, I'm trying to view the bios screen. Nothing is coming out of the display port cable, is there some basic trouble shooting I should do? | [18:24] |
| whaack: | got it working by restarting the machine and switching to an hdmi cable. | [18:27] |
| whaack: | I'm going to start taking everything apart and putting it back together. Meanwhile I am downloading the centos 6.9 minimal iso found on the mirror here: http://archive.kernel.org/centos-vault/6.9/isos/x86_64/ | [18:39] |
| trinque: | some GPUs take their own power cable. | [19:12] |
| trinque: | bbl | [19:12] |
| whaack: | currently stuck trying to get the mounting brackets off the heat sink | [21:50] |
| trinque: | derp, missed the line where you said you got it working. | [22:35] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Completed my writing assignment which took about 3.5 hours, made my appearance at the bday party which was ~2hours and I credited my Spanish study, did 6h of saltmines, and did some work on the fleet project. I made this script (don't click if you just ate, you may yack a little) http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Il5w which is scraping for all the channels on netsplit.de's site | [02:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013859 – sounds very nice! | [04:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 21:55:17 dorion_road: jfw spent the past weekend here in vt, I took him on a couple hikes and countryside drives. we made the most out of the little to do here. | [04:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why scrape the chans from netsplit.de though? doesn't each network have some cmd to get the full list? | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | ie scrape the network list, sure but why chans? | [04:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw have you seen http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956017 ? it was for you after all! | [04:53] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-24 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-23#1955954 was re ztkfg.com/2019/12/finding-meaning-in-a-deterministic-world-part-3/ btw, nfi why i thought it's self-obvious yest. | [04:53] |
| diana_coman: | hm, that was a bit too quick, Nemo_bis! | [08:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do take out the pagination of comments on your blog, it's useless and it even gets in the way (there's some setting from the dashboard, somewhere) | [09:23] |
| bvt: | dorion_road: ty, holidays (well, a short trip rather) were very nice. | [09:35] |
| bvt: | I have a question to the BUILD document: what does 'Install package signing key(s) in installer/ and update installer/initramfs.list.sh' refer to? is it a TODO item or something i am supposed to do? | [09:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm curious, how did you know I had pagination of comments enabled? It was set to paginate at 50 comments and afaik I don't I have an article with that many comments | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the link for comments contains "page-bla" or similar. | [12:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah okay | [12:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For freenode I found the command /msg alis list you have to feed it a regex and it only returns a maximum of 60 channels | [12:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: iirc there was something like /list directly; granted this was some… uhm, 15 years ago so if you are indeed sure that's all there is, I suppose you'll have to work around the idiocy. | [12:54] |
| dorion_road: | bvt that step isn't necessary. jfw can correct me if I'm wrong, but what he has in mind there is a way for a package to be built on one system, signed and then deploy that package across multiple machines. | [12:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah nope /list seems to work | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956026 | [13:07] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-24 diana_coman: jfw: Keksum's 3rd genesis is now signed and mirrored; as you've gathered already the previous comments on your article directly, I linked that and there's no need that I see for an additional article; also, you messed up something with your Keksum's article title now. | [13:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and i did notice http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-24#1956017 last night. i was surprised it was not from confusion from both lobbes and i having gone from blog.lobbesblog and whaacked to krankendenken and ztkfg respectively. now I should either change my theme or somehow get my widgets on the side for my individual articles. | [13:08] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-24 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-23#1955954 was re ztkfg.com/2019/12/finding-meaning-in-a-deterministic-world-part-3/ btw, nfi why i thought it's self-obvious yest. | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: btw, re Kant, if you just start reading philosophy, I recommend you start with Popper at least, it'll be both easier to follow and of more immediate interest to you I'd think. | [13:09] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-23 dorion_road: Unfortunately I've not yet read much Kant, though I know I need to. | [13:09] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter the recommendation holds for anyone else interested ( whaack jfw shrysr ?) | [13:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, if you don't ack, how would one know you noticed? why didn't you simply say thank you there or something? ack is not only for me/here, obviously. | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ah just because of the inertia of self voicing…i'll get to it now | [13:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and I will gladly add Popper to the reading queue | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | I should add I suppose that Popper is more of a historian of science rather than philosopher in a classical sense; so perhaps not as much starting on philosophy proper; still an easier introduction on that path I think. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | ha, forgot lobbes ^ | [13:18] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Dec-2019#1013841 << going to spell it out in a piece I've got baking after I finish the one for the OS gents. | [13:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-23 06:21:20 diana_coman: trinque: I'd be very glad to discuss with you the tmsr-os as business really and I quite want to know how you actually see it/what you have in mind currently about it. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: sounds good; I'll read it. | [13:52] |
| trinque: | what concerns me about the former is I hear a lot of grand, elevated language that reminds me of some folks in the last batch, here http://dorion-mode.com/2019/11/implementing-tmsr-os/ | [13:52] |
| trinque: | and not a lot of mature process | [13:52] |
| trinque: | "here's a thing we were asked to do, the republic is very important, it has some things like V, and now lets dole out work" | [13:52] |
| trinque: | so I'm laying out the shape of such work, can be taken or left when it's done. | [13:53] |
| trinque: | if it continues as it is, "here are the things we need and therefore" it's towards-purpose, and success will be therefore accidental if success comes. | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: I can see what you mean; there are some differences in this case though too :) but I think laying out the shape of such work as you see it would be very useful indeed. | [13:55] |
| whaack: | I discovered today you can go to Appearance->Widgets and then click the "edit" button on Recent Posts under Current Widgets and change the title to, for example, "Recent Articles" | [18:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent most of my day working on my article. It took roughly 5-6 hours. I've only done about 2 hours of saltmines, and my neighbor stopped by and invited me to Christmas Eve dinner with her family, which I think is right to accept. I will consider that Spanish study again, and just go short on my saltmines hours for the week. | [21:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and btw, Merry Christmas! | [21:59] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did my writing assignment and my spanish exercise. For the writing assignment I proofread first a few times without using a spellchecker. Then finally I did use a spellchecker and I saw there were a few words I had spelled egregiously wrong that I had missed. So I know for a fact my brain is filtering / not parsing the text correctly when I review. I have little to show apart from the writing assignment/S | [00:30] |
| whaack: | panish hr. I wanted to have my computer built today but instead I wasted time with various b.s. such as the power button fiasco and retaking pictures. | [00:30] |
| whaack: | An unexpected event for tomorrow is I have to go to another birthday bbq here. There is no traveling and it is just lunch, so I'll try to keep it as short as possible and count it as my Spanish study for the day. | [00:33] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/23/ejb-review-week-0-dec-16th-dec-22nd/ << Young Hands Club — ejb review: week 0 (dec 16th – dec 22nd) | [05:16] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: where's your plan for this week? | [05:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: plan's being baked now. Since I'm going to be doing the holiday thing next week I wanted to plan out the week after next as well so I had plan to come back to | [05:35] |
| lobbes: | (and indeed, as it is about 4am here these plans are definitely late) | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: holiday is fine, planning for the week after next is fine again; being stupidly late like this is just stupid; being silent about it is idiotic; need I say more? | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | deadlines are not just some random hours either; now I had the time set out to read through all the plans and reviews and give feedback; yours is not there so guess what will happen? | [05:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: It is stupid; and indeed I'm just getting in the way of the entire point by being late like this | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: mk, finish it whenever you finish it and I'll get to it perhaps some other time this week or next Monday. | [05:43] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ok. I'll make sure I get a handle on my timeliness for the future | [05:46] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/23/ejb-plan-week-1-dec-23rd-jan-1st/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 1 (dec 23rd – Jan 1st) | [06:12] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: also, your previous plan was supposedly to be updated with the actual times as you went but that part died on the 19th? | [06:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: re procrastination, we'll get to it but in a nutshell, it's precisely this the root of it; so yeah, I'm not at all surprised. | [06:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:57:02 diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know? | [06:16] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: I'd be very glad to discuss with you the tmsr-os as business really and I quite want to know how you actually see it/what you have in mind currently about it. | [06:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 15:46:13 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013694 – hm, what do you have in mind as "business around tmsr os"? I get the impression you mean something quite clearly defined but I don't really know what. | [06:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: timings for prev. plan added (I had timings on my desk notebook yet did not keep blog updated) | [06:33] |
| lobbes: | I'll get the plan for Jan 2 – Jan 5 out tomorrow; sun's about to come up here and my cognition is waning. | [06:33] |
| lobbes: | bbl | [06:33] |
| whaack: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-23#1955954 <<– Hmm what is mp referring to? Perhaps this was meant for lobbes ? | [09:43] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-23 mp_en_viaje: whaack, hey, that's not even bad. | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I think he did mean lobbes's ebuilds article, yes. | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | but you can ask him, you know? | [09:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I had the idea that I did not have the right to speak in #trilema, but I will use my common sense going forward. | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ofc you have the right to speak in #trilema; you also have the responsibility to use it well and not talk nonsense, yes; but answering when spoken to comes under "use it well"; so yes, use that common sense, certainly. | [09:58] |
| whaack: | diana_comand: understood | [09:58] |
| bvt: | dorion_road: i will try building and installing gales over the next 3 days, will write a review afterwards, should finish everything until sunday | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: I'd certainly read a review on building and installing gales; might even come in handy for when I finally get around to try it out too. | [16:38] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: this is definitely a necessary step, because tmsr os is more probable to be gales-based than cuntoo-based. Re installation, the BUILD document looks rather detailed and well-written, so the whole procedure must already be solidly tested | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: indeed; and at any rate, if the docs turn out to not be detailed and well-written enough for a fresh install, I'm sure jfw and dorion_road certainly want to hear about it. | [16:49] |
| dorion_road: | bvt perfect, I'm looking forward to reading. thanks for the update. should any questions arise in the process, please ask jfw or myself. | [21:48] |
| dorion_road: | bvt how was the holidays ? | [21:49] |
| dorion_road: | jfw spent the past weekend here in vt, I took him on a couple hikes and countryside drives. we made the most out of the little to do here. | [21:55] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/24/ejb-plan-week-2-jan-2-jan-5/ << Young Hands Club — ejb plan: week 2 (Jan 2 – Jan 5) | [22:40] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Dec 2019
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/22/wh-review-of-week-10-dec-16th-dec-21st/ << Young Hands Club — WH Review of Week 10 (Dec 16th – Dec 21st) | [01:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I finished the daily article + wrote my review + plan for next week. I was quite tired and even took a 30 minute nap after the birthday party and drank coffee at 4pm to get the article+review+plan done. I am waiting until tomorrow to do my 30 minutes of planning for my next article. Tomorrow I will be building my computer. | [01:36] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/22/wh-plan-for-week-11-dec-23rd-dec-30th/ << Young Hands Club — WH Plan For Week 11 (Dec 23rd – Dec 30th) | [01:37] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013506 << I agree. I'm going to pick up that point in trilema right now. | [13:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 07:03:00 diana_coman: trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque). | [13:06] |
| trinque: | also diana_coman, I would benefit from your view on whether a business around tmsr os is viable, premature, what. | [13:08] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013556 << did you write this? runit already exists, and is exceptionally small | [13:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:19:07 whaack: diana_coman: Tackling the two headed beast, I am going to be splitting my time between reading the books recommended by trinque and moving forward with the irc project. I am starting to read The Art of the Metaobject Protocol right now. Later today will work on setting up a process monitor. The process monitor will run on a separate machine, and check every ~2 seconds to see if TheFleet is running. If it detects the process is dead | [13:09] |
| trinque: | I have intended to have runit as process 1. | [13:10] |
| trinque: | as it happens, a stripped-down runit lives in busybox already. | [13:10] |
| trinque: | has process supervision, etc. | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: great news! /s the helpful ticos already assembled the computer for me. They kept the packaging light+compact, leaving out the boxes for the various parts (w/ their instruction manuals). Oh and they left out the sd card reader entirely, which they informed me after I asked to confirm I had everything while picking up the package from the mail. | [13:20] |
| whaack: | I'm going to post pictures of how they assembled it, find all the manuals online, start disassembling the computer, and then put it back together. | [13:26] |
| trinque: | heh, turn it on first eh? save yourself some "did this ever work?" later | [13:27] |
| whaack: | trinque: well it's 90\% assembled, except the hard drives i ordered separately so they are missing. | [13:36] |
| trinque: | just saying not to mess with a system in all manner of ways prior to taking some measurements of initial conditions. | [13:36] |
| whaack: | trinque: alright i'll examine it + turn it on before I change anything. | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: When you do get to disassembly, see how they handled the thermal interface between the CPU and heatsink. | [13:42] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I was curious about that since I have my thermal paste out on the desk. I'll take note. Is there anything I need to be particularly careful about / watch out for while disassembling? | [13:46] |
| whaack: | The photos: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/the-preassembled-machine/ | [14:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack just if the heatsink and CPU take a LOT of force… they may have used epoxy. When you apply the new thermal paste make sure all of what they used is removed. | [15:01] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: thx | [15:05] |
| trinque: | dude this "ever helpful ticos" thing is real. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Dec-2019#1013681 – indeed, I'll fix it, thank you. | [15:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-21 17:03:29 bvt: diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href) | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Dec-2019#1013686 – well, talk to him since it's anyway better for you to talk to intelligent people; and don't worry either way, let him figure out (or not) stuff, what. | [15:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-21 22:08:35 whaack: English. Although unfortunately for him I worry that he bites into the US politics fast food too much. I have another close friend from Stuy, but same things with the politics + he has gone down the dark path of California and SV monopoly money like most of my MIT buddies. | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: we keep in touch and him + the doctor friend recently planned to visit me in the beginning of March | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | do return the visits some time too though, at the very least. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013694 – hm, what do you have in mind as "business around tmsr os"? I get the impression you mean something quite clearly defined but I don't really know what. | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:08:34 trinque: also diana_coman, I would benefit from your view on whether a business around tmsr os is viable, premature, what. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013700 – ahaha; this is…unexpected. | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:20:47 whaack: diana_coman: great news! /s the helpful ticos already assembled the computer for me. They kept the packaging light+compact, leaving out the boxes for the various parts (w/ their instruction manuals). Oh and they left out the sd card reader entirely, which they informed me after I asked to confirm I had everything while picking up the package from the mail. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol, I think they did it to save money on shipping | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013704 – second this! | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:36:37 trinque: just saying not to mess with a system in all manner of ways prior to taking some measurements of initial conditions. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and yes I will return the visits. From one perspective, they are now the ones returning my visits. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thing is, this sort of "helpful ticos" is precisely how they make the worst messes, the "helpful clueless" so ugh. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [15:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mhm. I am even concerned about turning on the machine. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: didn't you talk to them when you picked it up? ie you expected to pick up a pile of components and …it wasn't that so ? | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I sent them a picture of the box (unopened) and I asked "have I picked up everything?" having been surprised because it just looked like the box for the case, I expected there to be a few other little boxes. They responded, "yes, everything is in there, except we couldn't get the sd card reader." So I took the box home, but I did not open it until today when I realized it was preassembled. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, did you even get all the docs at least? | [16:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No the box is missing a few manuals most noteably the one from the motherboard. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Or did you mean mounting docs? There was nothing other than what was inside the Case other than the extra cables from the modular PSU and two sata cables. (Also you might have meant did I find the manuals online – I am searching right now.) | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I meant the manuals for each component, yes. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | so ugh indeed, what a mess; I'd say turn it on and see what happens – if anything! (or possibly they even installed Windows!) | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | and then you'll probably have to call them anyway, at the very least to give them a piece of wtf, have them send the manuals and explain just how does "those components" end up as "this 2nd hand machine you sent me" because seriously now, how do you even know it's new? | [16:34] |
| trinque: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-08-06#1515840 << reminds me of | [16:35] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-08-06 trinque: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=20015 << if the world ever rights "helpful" is going to be a euphemism for "tries to slip dick in when you turn your back" | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: lol, if only they even had what to slip at all. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Didn't even occur to me think about the 'not new' scam. Turning on the machine did nothing. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: knowing a bit re ticos, I would even be inclined to say they probably didn't think of it either, lol; but it's still the sort of very, very unhelpful help; the "good intentions" that make that road to hell basically. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | is worried that the power cables may have been plugged into the motherboard but not the psu itself (hidden from view) and thus I may have fried the PSU for flipping the switch. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that's on *them* | [16:42] |
| trinque: | how'd not being plugged in fry something? | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now I realise I can't quite parse that frying-sentence; what is it, again? | [16:46] |
| whaack: | I was warned in the guides I read about PSUs that turning on a PSU without having it connected to the motherboard would fry the PSU because it would have some complete circuit without a load. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | "Attach the power cables now. If you forget about them and later fire up your computer while the ATX connector is not connected to anything, then you will fry your computer's power supply. Computer power supplies need a load attached to the main power connector or else they will burn out when you plug them in." From https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble3.php | [16:48] |
| whaack: | (Of course that would be on them, but I don't want to have to pay for their mistakes if I can avoid it.) | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so you mean a shortcircuit? not sure why worry specifically about that though because from what you say, it might be that *nothing* is connected. | [16:51] |
| whaack: | yes I mean a short circuit | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | and no, if it's on them, it means specifically that *they pay* for it, not you. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | what sort of "on them" is it otherwise, lol. | [16:52] |
| whaack: | well i'm going to have to pay with my time regardless | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that you already have to pay anyway because you got something other than what you ordered and so there's more work to do, clearly. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, I think first step is to have a good look at what's in there + decide what are you going to do about it ; second step is anyway to call them. | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: already called them, but they're closed on Sundays | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | right, lolz. | [16:55] |
| trinque: | mmmm, pretty sure PSUs are turned on by a closed circuit being formed by the motherboard. | [16:57] |
| trinque: | there are some pins that get connected by pressing the power button, which in turn tells the PSU to fire up power on the other pins. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | trinque: that's what makes the most sense to me, i don't see how the PSU is going to have a short circuit that gets broken by being plugged into the motherboard. That's why I spelled out short circuit as 'it would have some complete circuit without a load' | [17:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It's hard to see what might be the pin headers on this motherboard. | [17:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | At least from the given pictures | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did they actually assemble the computer or just stuff everything in the case ? those pictures are pretty terrible btw, can't see much. | [17:03] |
| whaack: | sorry, I will upload better pictures. It looks like it is assembled but the power switch not doing anything makes me question. I am perhaps derping and missing some switch I need to flip on the motherboard. | [17:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: There should be a block of pins on the board where various cables from the case including the power button get attached | [17:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Pretty sure those are the cables in the top right of the motherboard in the picture | [17:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Is the other side cover of the case readily removable? | [17:07] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: yes…just a few screws. I'll include a view from the other side for the new pics as wel. | [17:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Aite. In addition to taking pictures, follow which wires are connecting what things. | [17:10] |
| whaack: | i'm goign to try to remove the PSU cover rom the case as well | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hopefully you know that even cases have some docs to help you figure out what/where/how if it's not obvious (I've seen some cases that can be rather puzzling indeed) | [17:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the case manual is one of the few i have, it is a thick little booklet | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you don't need to do a full detailed read right now, just to figure out what/where/how really so you can even know how to get to stuff /if it's in the right place anyway. | [17:36] |
| whaack: | kk. (I'm holding off on posting new pictures because they will not be that useful as the important stuff is hidden.) | [17:37] |
| whaack: | oh man I derp'd pretty badly. There was another on switch I missed on the other side of the case. | [17:40] |
| whaack: | an on button* I only flipped the on switch | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen, set the new toy aside for a bit and decide first wtf are you going to do exactly. | [17:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My plan is to (1) test it can turn on (2) read all the instructions of putting it back together + the various manuals I find online. (3) dissemble/reassemble it and then use it. I fucked up step (1) embarrassingly, but my plan is the same. | [17:47] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-22#1013747 << 1990s ps needed min. load. current-day ones, generally not. | [17:48] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 20:40:06 whaack: "Attach the power cables now. If you forget about them and later fire up your computer while the ATX connector is not connected to anything, then you will fry your computer's power supply. Computer power supplies need a load attached to the main power connector or else they will burn out when you plug them in." From https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble3.php | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: fine but before pushing buttons, inspect that all parts are in place and connected, you know? visual inspection is part 1 of assessing the darned thing esp when it's not what was expected. | [17:48] |
| lobbes: | I will say this helpful-ticos thread has been educational for me. I wager I'd be in a similar boat as whaack if this had happened to me | [17:49] |
| whaack: | lobbes: what boat am I in? lol | [17:50] |
| lobbes: | whaack: from you article you said you had zilch experience for computer assembly. I too have this zilch | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was/am doing that. I just saw your instructions 'turn it on and see what happens' and so i flipped the power switch and raised my fist 'goddamn nothin!' and then during my inspection realized 'oh right, power button in addition to power switch' | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | ah, I see; lol. | [17:53] |
| whaack: | i even pulled out the damn multimeter on the power cable lol | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how's that ebuilds write-up coming along? | [17:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: it is coming along (and hint taken; will get back to work) | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: good; review+plan are also due today, right? | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is correct. I will get those out too. | [17:59] |
| whaack: | on the bright side i get extra practice, computer disassembly + assembly. The preassembly is only a real problem because of the could-be-used-parts issue. I found the motherboard manual and I'm sure i'll find all the other missing ones online. | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you know the difference between intimated/intimidated, compromise/comprise? | [18:02] |
| whaack: | is thinking | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for some context1 and context2 because it's getting painful to read this sort of mistakes. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | yes, i know the difference enough to know those are awful errors. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how come you keep making this sort of mistake though? | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is this some sort of "if spellchecker did not complain then it's the right word" or what? | [18:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I proofread everything by reading out loud softly at the end, but yes I may be getting a false sense of confidence from the lack of a red squiggly. | [18:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: should I not have a spellchecker at all? | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: since you seem to be dependent on it rather than merely using it, yes, ditch it until you stop this nonsense. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: when you proofread – what are you looking for? | [18:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Loosely in the order of importance: ~ Unclear meaning, awkward wording, repetition, overuse of adverbs, misplaced modifiers, unclear antecedents | [18:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have a ready enumerable list, which is itself a problem. I also don't have 'spellchecking' in there because it's true I use spellchecker to spellcheck, and I guess my hope is that errors such as the above would be caught under the 'awkward wording' scan | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, when you look at some code, do you have a ready enumerable list of "problems I am looking to find"? | [18:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it goes the other way around (as it usually does): you are not to look for "a list of problems" because you can't possibly list them all anyway (sure, with experience, you can make a reasonable list of most-usual and that will be better than nothing but it won't be great reviewing, no) | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | what you are looking for is the opposite: is this sentence/para/text-so-far clear, relevant, any good (here the def is fuzzier, obv)? | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | you can much more easily and usefully enumerate what the text should be than all the possible ways in which it can fail to be | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay that makes sense. I need a list of do's rather a list of dont's. | [18:27] |
| whaack: | rather than* | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and more to the point, it gets again back to your pebble – even at review time, do NOT throw your pebble! you need to read it with a. fresh mind precisely so you can stand a chance at evaluating if it's any good (not if it's bad-this-way-or-that-way) and b. unsympathetic mind (aka it's your enemy's text rather than your own) | [18:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. Part of the issue may be related to time management. I'm always pushing over a little over 1.5 hours for the article itself so I'm rushing the proofread process (the first one, at least.) I talk about this in my review, and I believe the problem is further upstream and my articles take longer because I have a mediocre outline from the previous day. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so take whatever steps you need to take to fix that, sure; also, ftr, if you find you need to adjust something, just say it + argue it, what's the trouble? | [18:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: What are you referring to when you say 'if i find i need to adjust something?' I am comfortable saying/arguing adjustments to your instructions if I think I have a good reason to. | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then why exactly "rushing the proofread process"? | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | that IS snowballing too, it doesn't magically become something else just because it got sort-of-done. | [18:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I am already going overtime with the rushed proofread process. And to be clear I am still proofreading for a decent amount of time and then taking a break and doing another proofread. I was okay with make 1.5 hour writing assignments 2-2.5 hours, but I believe if I spend more time than that then i'd be repeating the problem I had from the previous week. | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what exactly are you spending on what ? because now it's confusing what exactly is taking that much time. | [18:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the bulk of wasted time comes from restructuring the outline of my article halfway through writing it. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm; does the first review do much? | [18:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well i think i measured before, i often do a major restructuring of part of the article or the entire thing during my first review. But if I do that, then I also do another proofread at the end of the restructuring. | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: something is off there because by the sounds of it you end up with 2 major restructurings and so yes, you are again pushing towards the original overkill; I'll see tomorrow your review and hopefully it's clearly stated in there just what you are doing. | [18:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Alright thank you, but no my review does not clearly state an explanation of what i'm doing – it only mentions quickly what I think is the problem + a solution. | [19:01] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Writing done + got everything done with my trip to SC. (The entire trip was just under 5 hours) I was invited to a night-time picnic on the beach as I was taking out the trash, and I used the opportunity to replace my Spanish studying. That took about 1.5 hours and I had to excuse myself to keep it at only that. I was invited by them to go tomorrow morning to a beach to have breakfast. Tomorrow there is als | [01:21] |
| whaack: | o a bbq for my landlord's birthday at noon. | [01:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I would like permission to do both of the above. The trip to the beach with the neighbors will take ~3 hours and the bbq will be ~2 hours. | [01:23] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/21/rmd-review-dec-14th-20th-2019/ << Young Hands Club — RMD review, Dec 14th-20th, 2019 | [01:34] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/21/rmd-plan-dec-21st-27th-2019/ << Young Hands Club — RMD plan, Dec 21st-27th, 2019 | [01:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: go ahead; and enjoy! | [04:35] |
| trinque: | whaack: re: sha vpatches, these were produced prior to the switch to keccak. I can regrind them. | [15:32] |
| bvt: | diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href) | [17:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ty, btw. The birthday party went a little bit late, and the writing assignment went over time again, so I am pushing to get the reviews done. An error I've been making with the writing assignments is I've been doing a poor job since I leave the 30 mins of planning for the next day as the last item before I go to bed. | [21:46] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013595 << I left this question unanswered. From MIT I have little to show. Most of my buddies there were made smoking and so I fell into the wrong crowd. They are 'doing well' in the sense of making 6 figures in monopoly money at some SV firm. There are a few friendships at MIT I failed to grow with some smart do-shit type of individuals, I can try to reach out to them and see wha | [22:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:54:14 diana_coman: or for that matter, aren't any of your former colleagues at stuyvesant or mit doing anything interesting ffs? | [22:08] |
| whaack: | t they're up to. In Stuyvesant I did a bit better, I have a tight nit meatwot that has lasted ten years. I have one close friend who has been very successful in med school and has his choice of pick for residency. His stories of the bs that goes on in hospitals are hilarious if not terrifying. I have another who is getting his Phd in physics in Paris. He is fluent in Hebrew and conversational/fluent in French and Italian on top of | [22:08] |
| whaack: | English. Although unfortunately for him I worry that he bites into the US politics fast food too much. I have another close friend from Stuy, but same things with the politics + he has gone down the dark path of California and SV monopoly money like most of my MIT buddies. | [22:08] |
| whaack: | speaking of monopoly money, i have a contact interested in buying 00,000 worth of btc. Pure cash deal that I will broker, if anyone in the CR area is interested please gpg me. | [22:11] |
| whaack: | (If you are interested in doing a smaller amount feel free to inquire as well) | [22:14] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Did my Spanish + Writing. I did 1hr of surfing today, and otherwise worked on the irc project. I did not get time to do the process monitor, and am pushing it back until I have a better idea of what TheFleet is going to look like when it is running on various irc networks. I read the appendix of The Meta Object Protocol that goes over CLOS and read the introduction. The book is pretty dry and I think I may | [02:08] |
| whaack: | want to read more about CL in general before I tackle it. I spent some time reading ircbot's source, I have a decent grasp of all its working – I can give it another read tomorrow/Saturday and then sign it and shortly after sign logbot as well. I dug into the cl-irc library it uses a bit, and started to read the rfc's for irc to get a better idea of the design of the system i'm exploring. Following thimbron's work I found the list | [02:08] |
| whaack: | of top irc servers + number of channels they have https://netsplit.de/networks/top100.php . Assuming that is not a bogus list, iterating through all the channels of top 100 networks + 'out of competition' networks seems like a good goal. There will be some hurdles to work through: I found for example freenode limits a user to 120 channels. Lastly I figured out how to connect to multiple channels with logbot (ben_vulpes had wrote a | [02:08] |
| whaack: | vpatch for this that I found in the logs, I lost some time not realizing that there were 2 separate vpatch files for 1 patch – one vpatch for logbot and one vpatch for ircbot.) | [02:08] |
| whaack: | Tomorrow I have a lot to do in Santa Cruz: pick up my computer, pick up my keyboard, pick up mail from the states, go grocery shopping, and get my debit card from the bank. | [02:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a productive day yesterday overall; the limit to 120 channels on freenode means one bot per 120 channels and/or walk the chanlist over a longer timeframe (aka first 120 chans logged over January, next over February and so on if absolutely must); re list on netsplit.de certainly, it's that one I had in mind anyway (didn't realise you weren't aware of it). | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | trip to Santa Cruz sounds like a good break too and sorting out needed stuff anyway. | [03:31] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013561 << I'm trying to unpack what makes for a superior form of identity; e.g. RSA signatures are better than hand written signatures because hand written signatures are rela | [15:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:24:09 diana_coman: e.g. "A strong individual identity is unique and expensive to replicate which generates signatures that are expensive to forge" – what?? | [15:52] |
| dorion_road: | tively cheap to forge. if I'm off there, what characteristics do you think make for a strong form of identity ? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: that sentence just doesn't parse at all, I just couldn't follow what you were trying to say. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | I could guess, sure; had about 3 guesses at it, lol. | [15:53] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yeah I can see that. I was trying to be concise and also I was working out the concept. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013563 << thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to say that tmsr tools are superior and create greater incentives for the individual to strengthen himself and meanwhile his alte | [15:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:29:39 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013526 – so to answer your stated question: I think you are trying to make the point that tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly and the larger environment; you have some concrete ideas & points as to how and why but your article doesn't really marshall them in any orderly way. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | rnatives are weakening because Bitcoin is a fuller specification for money. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | apologizes for the broken lines above. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | listen, you are trying there to do essentially synthesis and that's one of the …more difficult things to do properly and clearly, are you aware? | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | the way you go about it, it's what tends to happen at first attempts – you end up with just the top of some whole tree at best and nobody can follow or tell what it was about. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: do you think my summary there doesn't fit your text? | [16:00] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that paints the picture well, and no, I wasn't conscious that synthesis was/is what I'm doing. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | heh, what do you call it when you read 1001 things and you try to distill it all in …what do you have there, 500 words? lolz | [16:01] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I think your summary does fit the text, I think I need more time to see just how incomprehensible the first section is. | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: well, that part is easy really: read it to someone from outside and see what they get; | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | but getting back to what you wanted to say: the "create greater incentives for the individual to strengthen himself" is the weaker version of my "tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly" | [16:03] |
| dorion_road: | agreed. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: how did you choose the structure ? | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | (the alternatives weakening would be again towards "the larger environment" but still more remote and weaker really) | [16:06] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm bringing up my outline, one sec. | [16:06] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I had more points from researching and thinking about what to include, when I got to writting I decided to focus on the top two, identity and money, and then went to explain why tmsr tools for identity and money are superior. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: uhm, your article though was supposedly focused on tmsr-os so first of all you should have made clear first the link tmsr-os -> identity+money | [16:10] |
| dorion_road: | right, I didn't establish that. | [16:12] |
| dorion_road: | I definitely see a reforge attempt in the near future. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | thing is, you didn't quite explain that either; you put them in, sure, but explaining them, hm. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: listen, you really need to start with smaller steps here, you are trying to step over what seems to you a tiny bump but it's a ..mountain, lol. | [16:15] |
| diana_coman: | so: it's all right and even very good to write stuff down to work out the concept, just as you said here: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-20-Dec-2019#1013626 | [16:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-20 15:55:28 dorion_road: diana_coman yeah I can see that. I was trying to be concise and also I was working out the concept. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | that is part of the required steps *before* you can actually write the sort of thing you were trying to write there. | [16:16] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yeah, I can see that, heh. taking smaller steps seems to be the thing that could most improve my writting overall at present. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | and at all times, if you are aiming to write something *for others* ie not to work out the concept for yourself but to help others see stuff clearly, then you need to a. be already fully clear on all the points you want to make (and I mean this in a very specific way, there's a lot to it) b. think through and choose the best structure, not just "top two " or something. | [16:18] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that makes sense. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I'm sure you read a lot (and a lot of times) and so you have quite a wide view and can reference properly but you lack yet the practice structuring it all and making a clear argument in writing there, hm. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: what practice do you have with writing anyway (other than the private journals, I mean for others, reports, anything)? | [16:21] |
| dorion_road: | agreed. you pointed out similarly how I often don't see depth. | [16:21] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I've written some business plans and write clients. I did some documentation and copy writting for coinapult, but for the copy writing they wanted me to dumb things down. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | oh yes, copy writing is a sort of anti-writing, yes; (for my sins, I know it better than I wish I did). | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | what do you mean by "write clients"? | [16:24] |
| dorion_road: | write emails to them to develop the relationship, provide updates, etc. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | ah, right; hm. | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman fyi I have a couple errands to run in ~15 minutes. jfw will be arriving here in the next hour or two. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: heh, I need to leave in ~5 minutes anyway | [16:27] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thank you for helping me to untangle both the message and the method. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | I'd say a. write at least a few articles that are exactly focused on working out one single concept b. after that aim for one of those that bring several together but if you want some help,better come with the outlines first and ask. | [16:28] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that sounds like just the write thing, will do. | [16:29] |
| dorion_road: | right* | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, write the right thing, yes :P | [16:29] |
| dorion_road: | haha | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | and maybe you do write this year that hunting thing too or you'll start 2020 with an audio article le gibier manque et les femmes sont rares | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [16:30] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, that's part of the rebalancing plan. | [16:33] |
#ossasepia Logs for 19 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I completed my writing + Spanish study, but did closer to 5hr of work for the irc project than 6hr 45min. I was at my desk and didn't do any obvert avoidance behavior, but I had to take care of some things such as dealing with coordinating the delivery of my keyboard on the phone. I installed logbot again on another VM, proofreading my instructional article while doing so. The article is just about ready to | [00:54] |
| whaack: | publish, although I could use some css improvements to better display bash commands on my blog. | [00:54] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/19/the-wayside-articles/ << Young Hands Club — The Wayside Articles | [01:16] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: in what I sadly suppose isn't a big surprise, several of my planned tasks this week are falling through, perhaps most notably today's – well, Wednesday's – publications | [02:00] |
| jfw: | reflecting a bit, since we last spoke I chose to prioritize responding in #t due to the upcoming potential offline spell, and let myself get drawn into the reading; then travel prep of course, wherein I also found some housekeeping debts to catch up on. The time-consuming articles this week contributed to a pile-up today too | [02:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013483 – re-genesis with the self-test is certainly better than nothing; other than that, you could I suppose just run my ada-keccak as ref since that's the practice anyway, isn't it? | [04:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 17:00:59 jfw: Do you have such test data for the original keccak? Otherwise, would you prefer I re-genesis now with fixed self-gen test, or postpone and try to figure this out? | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013490 – I'd like it in here as I can follow then more timely; some threads though might still belong in #t (eg if MP's input is needed); at any rate, I do follow & read all chans currently (if a bit slower on others than #o and #t at times). | [04:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 22:54:10 trinque: diana_coman: since jfw and dorion_road appear to be in your house, where would you like the OS thread carried? | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eod sounds good, looking forward to the article and then gradually the data & finally exploring this as it's been sitting around and waiting to get done for some time. | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013496 – myeah; trouble is your prioritising tends to end up along the lines of "which ball did I drop already, will pick it up now rather than later?"; way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know? | [04:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 02:24:44 jfw: reflecting a bit, since we last spoke I chose to prioritize responding in #t due to the upcoming potential offline spell, and let myself get drawn into the reading; then travel prep of course, wherein I also found some housekeeping debts to catch up on. The time-consuming articles this week contributed to a pile-up today too | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should? | [04:28] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque). | [07:03] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-19 mp_en_viaje: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-18#1955677 << this may even be so. but trinque , have mercy : in obtaining any desired result, the manager has indeed to await patiently for ~all possible~ results be delivered ? there is NO possibility of choice available, you mean, in the sense of none ~at all~ ? | [07:03] |
| jfw: | "way better to prioritise so as not to drop any to start with, you know?" – indeed. | [07:33] |
| jfw: | keksum re-genesis out, and I'm off! | [07:53] |
| diana_coman: | enjoy your holidays jfw ! | [07:58] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013505 << I'm seeing I didn't explicitly write about how I prioritize, which is what I said I'd write about. I wrote about priorities changing and why, but not about how I choose to do what when. | [11:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 04:28:56 diana_coman: dorion_road: does your wayside article fully cover what you said it should? | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: exactly; why or how does it end up morphing like that without notice? | [11:12] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't properly review the task I wrote before and while I worked on it. | [11:15] |
| dorion_road: | It got morphed in my meat memory for reasons I don't know at present and I didn't rely on my notes to check the work. | [11:17] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman also, you probably noticed that it was submitted at the deadline I set for myself. When I hit publish, I knew it wasn't my best work, but I published what I had. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: myeah; at the very least review/re-read before you start on it since it does seem like your idea of what you were aiming for tends to change without you even noticing it. | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: re deadline there's a few questions for both articles of yesterday really; how did it go anyway? (iirc on Sat we touched briefly on this and the timings; there was no update so "everything is fine") | [11:22] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I had made good progress on the +ev article on tuesday. i had gathered more references/reasons than I ended up using, so narrowing down to what I wrote took about and hour more thought than I had planned. | [11:32] |
| dorion_road: | I was on a tight schedule last night and decided to published rather than postpone the deadline. | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: fwiw I had quite some trouble following the +ev article; read it twice and I think I got more or less what you wanted with it but I'm not so sure how much sense it makes for someone who doesn't already know what you are talking about there. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: that much is clear re tight schedule; the q though is why do you keep pushing everything so it's ~always on a tight schedule quite predictably. | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | and you know, postponing the deadline is something to do the day before, not one hour before the deadline, as I'm quite sure you know already. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha, Romanian teachers @ Stuyvesant! I had no idea, lol. | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and at MIT too? iirc there's actually at least a former highschool classmate of mine at MIT, lolz. | [11:39] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks for the article feedback. what did you infer what I wanted to say ? | [11:39] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: haha yup. I think that they may have all left though, I know my two teachers did. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm sure there are some at MIT too although I don't remember any. | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: heh, now you want me to pack your whole article in a sentence on the spot too? | [11:41] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman re the tight schedule, I think it's been an acknowledgement of how much there is to do; these last few weeks are showing me approaching it on a tight schedule isn't the best way to go about it. | [11:41] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman heh, I'm trying to ask question here ! | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: a question you certainly asked :) | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: do you find you'd rather spend all the time on tmsr-os reading/writing/thinking and so you cram the rest only if/as needed on the side? because frankly this is how it looks like from outside. | [11:45] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm seeing that's what I have been doing and learning that's not sustainable. | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you'd be surprised re "all left" ie some may have left and there's still plenty just waiting to get there instead and "live the dream"; it's exactly that after all, more of their own imagination than actual cold fact. | [11:47] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman these next few days I don't have any tmsr os articles planned, so will balance myself out and then jfw is arriving here tomorrow through the weekend. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: how do you mean/see this balancing? | [11:51] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-19#1013499 << got it, ty | [11:51] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 08:03:31 diana_coman: asciilifeform: comment liberated, will answer it soon too. | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: more than just not sustainable, it's also not best even for you getting where you want to with tmsr os itself; this was my original point re "not in isolation"; for one thing it's quite a central item anyway; for the rest, you need to integrate a lot to figure out a path for it too so narrow focus won't work best even if it were sustainable by itself (it does sound more like leading to burnout but anyway). | [11:53] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I mean I have a buffer of time where I can re-evaluate how to proceed in re-balancing to more sustainability. | [11:55] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman you're exactly right about the importance of integration. | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: all right; take that time then and let's see what comes out of the re-evaluation. | [11:58] |
| dorion_road: | thank you diana_coman | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | you're welcome. | [12:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Can't say I'd be too surprised, I've noticed that the 'chumpatron' or what have you cycles through people of the same culture. | [12:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The install article is done. Going to do my writing for today and then get to work on the next steps of the irc-exploration project. The trip to Santa Cruz is scheduled for tomorrow, everything should be there: presents, keyboard, computer, and debit card. | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there are some vpatches with sha and some with keccak, seriously?? | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | also, you should provide at least some checksums for those archives you mirrored. | [12:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yeah the different types of vpatches were a bit of a PITA. Especially when I had to find that bug related to have one space ' ' vs two spaces ' ' with keksum vs. sha512sum | [12:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 18:47:42 whaack: jfw: hm a small detail I noticed about keksum. the output contains 1 space between the hash and the filename, whereas my shasum on my mac and sha512sum on ubuntu contains 2 spaces between them. Afaik there's nothing wrong with your choice, and i don't know why those other hash functions put 2 spaces instead of 1, but I have to tweak my v.pl a little more to make it be compatible with this. | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you should point trinque to that at the very least. | [12:40] |
| whaack: | trinque: The few pain points in downloading your sources: The biggest is the above problem where some of the vpatches are made with sha512sum and some with keccak. The other is the directory format is inconsistent, for logbot and ircbot you have an extra directory /v/ before /patches/ and /seals/. The last is that the naming convention of the vpatch files is inconsistent. For example for most of your tools (such as geepeegee) you n | [12:47] |
| whaack: | ame your genesis simply 'genesis.vpatch' but for ircbot and logbot you name the genesis 'ircbot-genesis.vpatch' and 'logbot-genesis.vpatch' | [12:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay I will update the post with the checksums right now. | [12:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Tackling the two headed beast, I am going to be splitting my time between reading the books recommended by trinque and moving forward with the irc project. I am starting to read The Art of the Metaobject Protocol right now. Later today will work on setting up a process monitor. The process monitor will run on a separate machine, and check every ~2 seconds to see if TheFleet is running. If it detects the process is dead | [16:19] |
| whaack: | , the monitor will (1) alert in channel and (2) run a command to restart TheFleet | [16:19] |
| whaack: | (TheFleet being the name of the process that logs all irc channels on all irc networks.) | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: on a 3rd re-read of your +ev article, it strikes me that it seems to actually start going somewhere only at the 6th para really; and some of the previous ones are quite incomprehensible. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | e.g. "A strong individual identity is unique and expensive to replicate which generates signatures that are expensive to forge" – what?? | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | basically up to that 6th para you seem to jot down your own notes rather than saying something clearly. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013526 – so to answer your stated question: I think you are trying to make the point that tmsr-os strengthens both individual contributors directly and the larger environment; you have some concrete ideas & points as to how and why but your article doesn't really marshall them in any orderly way. | [16:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 11:39:45 dorion_road: diana_coman thanks for the article feedback. what did you infer what I wanted to say ? | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's your current plan re networks and chans + joins? | [16:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have one yet. The first work that needs to be done is determine the number of channels and networks that are in existence and then design TheFleet based on those numbers. I haven't begun to do this, I was going to start by looking at the list of networks from thimbronion's attempt to contact admins. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: should add: the article doesn't quite make the ideas & points all that clear first of all; the lack of setting them properly to work comes after. | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Also I need to determine what criteria a channel must meet for TheFleet to put a nick inside the channel. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you don't need to plan it ALL upfront really; for one thing it might very well be that each network has its own specific requirements/whatever so .. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, I don't even know *what* information you can get automatically from each network. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | afaik you can get the list of chans | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | not sure if anything more than that re each chan, at least not without joining so… | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: from the other side too, why would it NOT join a channel, anyway | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | let it join, what; collect data for 1 month and then see; if it gets kicked from a chan, let the chan be, not like I want to force anyone now out of the hole they enjoy, what. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The only reason it would not join a channel in set P is if P is too large. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | what is "too large" and why? | [16:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't know the max number of channels the bot could handle, but for one it can't sit in all possible channel names. | [16:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: If possible it may be interesting to preemptively park it in empty channels, such as all channel names that are words in the English dictionary. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you should certainly know that max number of channels the bot can handle, heh; and then it's not ONE bot but a fleet so they split the chans as needed, no? in extremis, you can further simply cover subsets on different time frames. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | eh, I want it to log one month of each and every chan that exists, not as much to create new ones now, what would that do? | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | it may be different exact 4 weeks for different chans, that's not a problem in itself. | [16:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Say a dorion and jfw type pop in a channel to talk, and we are already there to catch that conversation | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | if anything, I suppose the holidays season would make perhaps for less activity | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what? I'm not after snooping on what people happen to say every other time in a blue moon/wherever they hide from mommy or something. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | sure, such cases may exist, some chan coming alive with 2-3 people once per week or dunno; but if it doesn't happen at least ONCE in a month, I'd say it's really not worth anything. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | even that is quite finegrained as it is. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, you made me curious – what's a "dorion and jfw type" anyway? | [16:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha. I meant a pair of people doing something interesting. | [16:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: They would be possibly sitting in channels that are hard to find / not listed | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, then they are not yet doing something interesting :P | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | by definition of "interesting" | [16:51] |
| whaack: | haha fair enough | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not directly related but at least it pinged now through my weirdly wired thoughts: you mentioned (to lobbes I think) your alumni mailing list and similar; is there anything interesting happening *there*? | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | or for that matter, aren't any of your former colleagues at stuyvesant or mit doing anything interesting ffs? | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I haven't seen any interesting activity on the mailing list in a while. However there are people with keys and I think some that may be quite interesting in joining #o should they learn about it. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | interesting or interested? lolz; anyway, why not talk to them at least, see where they are and what they are up to? | [16:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will do that. There is some discussion about doing more meeting / introductions that happened on the mailing list a few days ago. I organized a bitcoin meetup once with about 15 people | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | as in …actual people or sheep-people ? :p | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | when was that? | [16:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: A couple of years ago, I think in 2015 | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | what came out of it, anyway? | [16:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ~nothing. I think the meeting itself went well, I did a little presentation on how the btc protocol works, discussed the 'block size debate', people were enganged and asking questions, but I did not follow up with others afterwards. | [17:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It's mostly sheep-people, but also some actual people in the list (imo) | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: just to be clear, I don't mean at all to "preach", no; but literally talk to people, find out what they are up to, and only if they ask at all, mention any of the things you think are most interesting for them anyway, from the coolness of "own os" to btc wallet or computer graphics, dunno. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: awww, why not follow up, seriously; that's quite the important part, if you are to get anything for your trouble really. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | such surprises you keep to :P | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | too* | [17:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: re not following up – I didn't know better / was lazy. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | heh, I see. | [17:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I understand that you don't mean to preach. That said I think a eulora ad may do well on the mailing list | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | if only I had already the proper client with smg.comms and everything ready too, argh. | [17:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: there is no rush, that door will remain open | [17:08] |
#ossasepia Logs for 18 Dec 2019
| lobbes: | diana_coman: so I had a brief exchange with trinque and he suggested a linux-from-scratch exercise as a way to get a better grip on the fundamentals of an OS. | [00:15] |
| ericbot: | (trinque) 2019-12-18 trinque: LFS will teach you more about what actually constitutes a working system, because you'll make one with your hands | [00:15] |
| lobbes: | It actually sounds like a good idea to me, because part of my reason for wanting to help the tmsr os effort was to pay some of my learning-debt, but as I chew through the ebuild/Portage study I'm coming to terms with the basic fact that the debt I carry is quite large. | [00:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 22:35:03 diana_coman: as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too, | [00:15] |
| lobbes: | I'm thinking it may be prudent for me to instead just focus on paying that learning-debt down before I try to directly contribute to tmsr os (I fear I may just slow others down atm). I wanted to see what you thought about it anyway. | [00:15] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo, diana_coman: http://welshcomputing.com/jfw_travel-cert.asc | [00:59] |
| jfw: | (and to whomever else my travel key may concern.) | [01:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I had to edge into the night a bit, but I finished the schedule: writing exercise (2h), saltmines (8h), proofreading writing exercise (35min), preparing tomorrows writing exercise (15min), setting up postgres on VM (3hr), Spanish study (1h). The writing went overtime because I finished at t=90mins without having done a proofread. I have my VM setup. I can connect my local slime to an sbcl process running on | [03:20] |
| whaack: | the VM and spin off logbot threads. I have a test bot running in #whaacked. | [03:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013362 – when do you think you'd be done with a lfs exercise? | [06:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 00:15:22 lobbes: It actually sounds like a good idea to me, because part of my reason for wanting to help the tmsr os effort was to pay some of my learning-debt, but as I chew through the ebuild/Portage study I'm coming to terms with the basic fact that the debt I carry is quite large. | [06:24] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 22:35:03 diana_coman: as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too, | [06:24] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: to be explicit: it does sound like a good idea and a reasonable way to get you to figure out the basics, yes; at the same time though: 1. you can't now take the next 6 months to figure out what linux is; 2. you already did *some* investigation of the ebuilds system and so you should at the very least wrap that up and publish whatever you figured out (for yourself at a later stage if for nothing else); 3. at this stage it's … | [06:29] |
| diana_coman: | … anyway unclear if the ebuilds system is going to be of any use so the task there is *exploratory* really, not more and as such, it's something that can & should include documentation/research as needed, without dropping it all; 4. you can *use* lfs as a resource to learn, it doesn't have to be a project by itself. | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | understand also that for almost ~any practical work/project, you'll always have to ride this double-beast of a. making the most of what you *already* know b. learning and improving your knowledge+skill as much as possible as you work. | [06:34] |
| diana_coman: | (although I think I said the above some 10 times at least by now, apparently didn't quite say it in the logs so now it's here to link in the future, too.) | [06:35] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what's your current deadline+deliverable for the ebuilds investigation anyway? | [06:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013366 – your travel key concerns …you! silly. | [06:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 01:01:31 jfw: (and to whomever else my travel key may concern.) | [06:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013367 – did the writing go overtime as in spinning on it or as in had more to write so kept on writing? | [06:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 03:20:38 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I had to edge into the night a bit, but I finished the schedule: writing exercise (2h), saltmines (8h), proofreading writing exercise (35min), preparing tomorrows writing exercise (15min), setting up postgres on VM (3hr), Spanish study (1h). The writing went overtime because I finished at t=90mins without having done a proofread. I have my VM setup. I can connect my local slime to an sbcl process running on | [06:39] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013368 – sounds good! | [06:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 03:20:38 whaack: the VM and spin off logbot threads. I have a test bot running in #whaacked. | [06:39] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013360 << you didn't ask me, but here's an idea : as a starting point, why don't you lean of jfw's experience adapting lfs and build and install Gales ? | [10:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 00:15:18 lobbes: diana_coman: so I had a brief exchange with trinque and he suggested a linux-from-scratch exercise as a way to get a better grip on the fundamentals of an OS. | [10:56] |
| ericbot: | (trinque) 2019-12-18 trinque: LFS will teach you more about what actually constitutes a working system, because you'll make one with your hands | [10:56] |
| dorion_road: | spyked, bvt, triqnue and diana_coman all said they have going through the process on their list in the near future. | [10:56] |
| dorion_road: | trinque* | [10:57] |
| dorion_road: | Doing it yourself and writting a report about it will add leverage to that conversation for everyone as what to adapt from Gales, Cuntoo, else to TMSR OS becomes understood. | [10:57] |
| dorion_road: | As for a time estimate, a data point is we guided our clients through the build, install and initial configure in ~4.5 hours (3 ~90 minute sessions). This includes explaining things to them, their beginner command line inefficiency and building on dual core, 4 GB RAM system. | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: would you rather he writes a report on Gales first than on ebuilds? what's exactly the priority/goal/status re ebuilds anyway? I'm getting a bit confused now re this part as I didn't keep it in head to this level of detail. | [11:21] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman ebuilds is most interesting in my view for the automatic dependency resolution and because there's a lot already extant. the cost of terraforming it vs. adapting the Gales build system isn't yet clear. | [11:31] |
| dorion_road: | regarding priority, lobbes, how far along are you and how much more time do you estimate on the ebuild report ? when is your deadline ? I know you have other items on your plate, e.g. auctionbot. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: so what are you after from him as a first report? | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | re ebuilds I mean. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: for that matter he actually did ask you – did I miss the answer to that? | [11:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-16 20:26:42 lobbes: dorion_road: I also wanted to pick your brain re: my eventual report on the state of the ebuilds. Where I currently stand is I've only ever used Portage; I've never really dug into it. I know it is a beast, so I was hoping that you could help me narrow my focus onto what specifically you'd like me to find out about it | [11:33] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman jesus, I did miss that. | [11:35] |
| diana_coman: | good he asked some more then, heh. | [11:35] |
| dorion_road: | lobbes focus on the automatic dependency resolution. I don't know how such a mechanism will fit under V / TMSR OS , but that's a big point of leverage that Gales lacks. | [11:40] |
| dorion_road: | have you delved into that at all so far ? | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: what's your current vision for this particular part (I guess it would be Package Management from your list)? | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | you are possibly in the best place atm for it anyway since you know Gales' system + you have some idea re Portage as user if not about internals; but from your article there, I don't really get any idea beyond "there's portage and there's gales" and we need something. | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I rather doubt it'll be either terraforming portage (I expect it would be a huge task really) OR directly using Gales' system as such; ie what I see missing there is some thought/root of thought into the V-shape of this | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: to ask it from a different angle too: in what way do you think the automatic dependency resolution of ebuilds may carry over directly to tmsr-os given its v-package management? | [11:47] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman the vision is a bit unclear atm and I agree the root of how to integrate with V is the biggest piece missing. I've used both, but my perspective isn't as informed technically and I'm looking forward to what my betters have to say about Gales once they've tried it to help clarify next steps. | [11:50] |
| jfw: | See also my thinking aloud and MP's response which was pretty enlightening to me re what V-shaped OS means | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | ha, jfw can't claim the "isn't as informed technically" | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that gales is his so… | [11:53] |
| jfw: | note that 1) dependency resolution in the abstract isn't rocket science, toposort as seen in V is maybe 15 lines of code; 2) I specifically didn't include it in Gales because didn't want to over-develop something that had to be thrown out anyway once V-OS was clarified | [11:53] |
| jfw: | from the above link, the ideal as I understand it is: there is no "package X requires separate package Y, some portage is needed to glue them together from different sources"; only "patch X builds on Y vtree, and system needs to support whatever X you wish to press". Static linking seems quite essential for that actually | [11:56] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman right about jfw , and as far as ownership, I think he would be a good fit. we haven't talked about what he wants to do yet, in part because wallet dev, travel, etc. I also think he'd be a good fit for compiler and C library if ave1 doesn't want it. | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ah, I wasn't trying to push jfw into doing it all, lol; just meant that you *can* pick his brain to help you get a better vision there esp as he's the authority on Gales, what. | [11:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Writing went over time for a reason closer to the ~ 'had more to write so kept on writing.' I finished getting down what I had to say at ~ t=90 minutes, and then still had to proofread. | [11:59] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't take it that you were pushing, and pick his brain I will :) | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and note that lobbes is basically saying precisely that he's not all that competent technically either so make up your mind there re what does installing Gales do anyway – you can't simultaneously claim that it didn't do much for you re getting a good technical grasp and at the same time suggest it to lobbes for..getting a good technical grasp, you know? | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that's the good type of going over time then; hopefully it will get even longer & you'll simply split it in 2 installments/articles if needed. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, comment in your mod q. | [12:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah thank you. I forgot to mention it to Jacob / comment on his – I had read that piece by jfw, and that's what inspired me to write my mine. | [12:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: tsk; do link refs already, don't do the silly "forgot to link" stuff. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | esp if it actually inspired you to read yours, just how exactly you …"forgot"?? | [12:10] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that's true. for example, it helped me clarify what static linking, cross compiling, etc are. my comment about technical grasp was more about steps forward in V-ifying the package management, rather than strengthening me from where I was. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: if only you'd wrote about it at that time :P | [12:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I had read his article a few days prior and thought that a 9/11 piece would be a good topic for an open ended article. I guess it would be better to say while writing the article i didn't take the action to link / comment at the point when I remembered jfw's. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: anyways, to coordinate a bit here so poor lobbes doesn't end up entirely confused: from tmsr-os perspective, would a Gales-installation report be more useful atm than a beginner's take on ebuilds investigation? | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so take that action each and every time! and yes, better said like that. | [12:16] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman lobbes I think a Gales installation report would be better atm. espcially if there still remains a lot of work cut out for lobbes on the ebuilds. ebuilds can be approached as necessary after. | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: cool then. | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do a write-up of whatever you have already on ebuilds, just so it doesn't go to waste; take Gales and install it + report on it and remember that it's basically an accelerated lfs + you might still get direct help from jfw and/or dorion_road if you get stuck (and ask, ofc). | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion_road while I haven't really spent time specifically pondering the v-shape of a package management system, I think it essentially stems from that fundamental "each V-tree" is the context of its all vpatches; as such, for one thing there isn't an "automatic dependency resolution" external to the v-tree because what would it do anyway, mess up trees or what exactly? and the problem otherwise switches more to a proper grind … | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | … of the tree ie a reader/signer's thing rather than a system; ie possibly even different grinds of "my OS" since anyway, tmsr-os or not, it's still up to each user what exactly they run on their machine. | [12:33] |
| jfw: | whaack: glad to be of inspiration and looks like you're off to a strong start on the daily writing! | [12:35] |
| whaack: | jfw: ty! it is quite enjoyable | [12:35] |
| jfw: | lobbes: feel quite free to ask for help re Gales as needed. | [12:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack, I won't hesitate to link going forward | [12:35] |
| jfw: | the LFS handbook might make a good companion reference too, as I recall it went into greater depth on some explanations, though many of the steps involving glibc / dynamic linking aren't needed. | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | ^^^^^^ | [12:37] |
| jfw: | (needed by Gales at any rate.) | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's your plan re chan and blog over the holidays? | [12:38] |
| jfw: | I plan to follow the log and chime in as needed though it might be sporadic; on the blog, will keep an eye out for comments but not planning to write new articles | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | prolly better off calling it "I'll be offline but I'll try to at least read the logs"; makes for closer-to-likely-reality expectations all around. | [12:43] |
| diana_coman: | kind of curious if you'll find it harder to write after the break :D | [12:44] |
| jfw: | hmm… your closer-to-likely expectations have been on target so far so I won't dispute. | [12:44] |
| diana_coman: | well, I can always bait you with a lot of discussion of your own code and then you'll get online. | [12:46] |
| jfw: | likewise curious on the writing, maybe I'll at least keep a journal to stay in something of the habit | [12:46] |
| jfw: | could be, heh. | [12:47] |
| jfw: | I'd like some help as to adequately approaching the recall and reload / setting down carefully and time-consumingly process | [12:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-17 16:36:29 diana_coman: whaack: that is very possible; the other part to this is to start getting better at helping your recall and reload really; let me fish something out for you. | [12:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 04:11:25 diana_coman: To be explicit: there are just 3 options there, namely a. you drop the work quickly and painlessly now to pick it up painfully in January b. you set down the work carefully and time-consumingly now to pick it up easily in January c. you don't do either and therefore take the work (or parts of it) with you on holidays too, whether you sit down to do any of it or just carry it in your mind anyway. | [12:50] |
| jfw: | so far I've listed the tasks in flight and planned, and there's the earlier planning articles too | [12:51] |
| diana_coman: | is looking for that… question mark. | [12:51] |
| jfw: | Can you clarify the steps that you find helpful there? | [12:52] |
| diana_coman: | yay, question! jfw, this is a bit of an iterated/person-specific process really but essentially what I found I'm aiming for is to jot down the main bits of context really | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | tasks in flight and planned as you say sound good but also ideas/why | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | because – or at least the way I work – there's a lot of thinking before/in those "tasks" and it's mainly *that* part that is painful to lose/have to pick up from start again (or even remember that uhm, I was thinking of that/this/the other/pondering) | [12:55] |
| diana_coman: | so I end up listing all sorts, including constraints (why I wanted to do this and not that) and wtfs | [12:57] |
| jfw: | . | [12:57] |
| jfw: | whoops. Makes sense | [12:57] |
| diana_coman: | or if it helps, maybe look at it from the other end: what would you want to have on one page to read to get you quickly back up to speed when you come back to it? | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | (then again, do note that my eulora work has consisted up to date mainly of figuring out and trimming a ~500k+ clusterfuck, so possibly on the heavy side in terms of tangles.) | [13:00] |
| jfw: | aha, seems I can manage mostly by reference to my own things from here | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [13:02] |
| jfw: | well except those trb patches, heh, but they're still not too invasive. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | happy you. | [13:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For my schedule today (2hr 15 min on writing, 1h Spanish study, 8hr 45 min on logbot / irc exploration project) I prefer to go ~2 hours short for logbot / irc so I can get to bed earlier. Last night I had to pick between going against my word or staying up late, and I chose the later. I would not like my schedule to shift into the night. | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: makes sense. | [13:17] |
| whaack: | CR is not a place for night owls, it is much nicer to wake up at ~5am here lest you cook in your bed in the morning | [13:19] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Dec-2019#1013429 << the matter needs to be considered further and i read your reasoning to be strong. in each deployment the user subjectively selects the vpatches and sigs for a particular machine and his plans for it. | [15:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 12:33:03 diana_coman: jfw, dorion_road while I haven't really spent time specifically pondering the v-shape of a package management system, I think it essentially stems from that fundamental "each V-tree" is the context of its all vpatches; as such, for one thing there isn't an "automatic dependency resolution" external to the v-tree because what would it do anyway, mess up trees or what exactly? and the problem otherwise switches more to a proper grind … | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | it's just my initial thought on it really, so I expect there will be more discussion on it esp as things get moving otherwise, certainly; the main thing though is that in this/similar, I fail to see much use/space for ebuilds/portage/very-similar. | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re ~5am in CR, that's pretty much the hour I was up each and every day of those 2 weeks I was there (+ even in the streets it was easy to notice that everyone had the schedule essentially earlier than the usual in Europe); the light was enough for the wake-up-at-5. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, it was rather… exhausting overall. | [15:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I imagine it was exhausting from the heat + the walking/traveling you did, not from waking up at 5am since ostensibly you also went to bed earlier | [15:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Going to bed before 10pm consistently was a major shift for me when I got here, but it is the only schedule that makes sense. Given the heat the two best times to be outside are sunrise and sunset. A walk at night in CR is awful, especially in non urban areas where there is no light and instead just a bunch of bugs out to eat you. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the "went to bed earlier" didn't quite…work out, no, lol. | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | but there was also some jet lag and all the rest, indeed. | [15:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha well at least there was good coffee here to aid you. (iirc you mentioned in your smilely alligator article that you drank some even though you do not drink coffee normally) | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | yes; and the rum to not-help. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | heh, not complaining though, no. | [15:41] |
| whaack: | lol | [16:18] |
| whaack: | well i have found a quite weird bug in my mpwp. I have 5 superscripts linking to footnotes in the body of my article, as I should, but only 4 footnotes appear down below. | [16:19] |
| whaack: | figured out problem. It was caused by a double quote, ", in an anchor tag being accidentally written as a single quote, ' | [16:23] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: in searching for test data for the full keccak sponge I've found "known-answer test result" zip files at https://keccak.team/archives.html ; despite the "warning, obsolete!11" these appear to come from various iterations of the NIST tweaking and I've not been able to reproduce at least by a naive interpretation of the test format. | [16:57] |
| jfw: | Do you have such test data for the original keccak? Otherwise, would you prefer I re-genesis now with fixed self-gen test, or postpone and try to figure this out? | [17:00] |
| jfw: | I see one sponge test at http://ossasepia.com/2018/01/25/eucrypt-chapter-7-keccak-sponge/ but seemingly for a 5-bit input whereas my prog demands bytes. | [17:06] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: i wrote a comment re your vtronics piece (sadly much belated, was in uruguay) , is in your spam queue atm | [17:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My next step is to spin up a new VM and test run my instructions by reinstalling everything. There were a few "do, undo" steps I took and I want to make sure that (1) I have a pure environment without files I forgot to uninstall (2) I/anyone else can quickly rebuild using the instructions | [18:12] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-18#1013441 << sounds good to me, I will aim to have write-up of what I have already on ebuilds done by the Sunday. After that I will do a Gales install and report. | [20:52] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-18 16:23:58 diana_coman: lobbes: do a write-up of whatever you have already on ebuilds, just so it doesn't go to waste; take Gales and install it + report on it and remember that it's basically an accelerated lfs + you might still get direct help from jfw and/or dorion_road if you get stuck (and ask, ofc). | [20:52] |
| lobbes: | ty diana_coman, jfw, and dorion_road for the feedback, and I'll definitely reach out for help during install. | [20:52] |
| trinque: | diana_coman: since jfw and dorion_road appear to be in your house, where would you like the OS thread carried? | [22:54] |
| trinque: | here? #trilema ? my chan? | [22:54] |
#ossasepia Logs for 17 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Completed today's schedule: 1.5hr of writing w/ 15 min proofread + 30 min prep for next day, 8hr saltmines, 1hr of Spanish study. There was still some spinning/derpage (specifically ~1hr of texting at the end of the day) and it is clear that this new 'more aggressive' schedule still leaves quite a bit of room for improvement. | [01:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah; basically you are able to do way, way more than you have the habit to choose to do. | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: btw that review of time in tmsr is fine as an overview, still missing the conclusion part where you look at it all as laid out and attempt to figure out some concrete lesson to learn from it, moving forwards. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's not clear at all from your current plan is what are you going to do re work and holidays, esp since the wallet is not going to be ready before you leave, is it? | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | To be explicit: there are just 3 options there, namely a. you drop the work quickly and painlessly now to pick it up painfully in January b. you set down the work carefully and time-consumingly now to pick it up easily in January c. you don't do either and therefore take the work (or parts of it) with you on holidays too, whether you sit down to do any of it or just carry it in your mind anyway. | [04:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so which of a,b or c above you reckon it will be? | [04:11] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I'm headed out to mines now, but I will give this some thought throughout the day. My initial take is that I'm not sure there is a single lesson that can be taken; rather a collection of them (which I thought I kinda touched on, but perhaps there's value it me laying it out explicity to myself) | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: better explicitly than implicitly for sure; and several lessons/collection of them, sure. | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | the main trouble with "implicit" is that you can (and will) conveniently ignore/change it/lie to yourself about it, that's how it goes; so yeah, explicit & written down. | [11:02] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I see that without a firm decision it would default to option a, which sounds none too appealing. I think my free time on the holiday would be best allocated to reading; if I find myself inspired to continue coding then so much the better, but unwise to bank on it. So I'd better take option b and it'd be a good practice to learn anyway. I recall you linked an example from eulora work | [12:33] |
| jfw: | (i.e. taking the time now to set down the work carefully) | [12:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I'm wondering what to do for a travel key, thinking it unwise to carry my main one into the Zone, in light of http://trilema.com/2019/the-contemplated-update-to-the-trilema-voice-model/ . One thing I learned from that is apparently I could have been giving dorion_road his !!ups all this time – I hadn't realized! | [12:50] |
| jfw: | but with the contemplated change, I gather I won't be able to stay in the channel except when speaking, unless a lord rates my travel key +2 | [12:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: I can do that if you sign the announcement of your travel key. | [12:53] |
| jfw: | thanks BingoBoingo, solves that nicely. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I must say I feel quite happy knowing there is (what appears to be) a low resistance path to improvement. Cutting some of the bs should be quite easy. I'm going to work to make it into a positive feedback loop, as I gain from cutting out bad habits I'll be more inclined to get rid of the more entrenched ones. | [13:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm pushing back my trip to Santa Cruz until tomorrow/Thursday since there's a birthday present in the mail that won't arrive until then. That gives me 4 additional hours today, I will use 1hr for Spanish study and 3h for setting up my VM for the systematic exploration of irc networks project. | [13:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I can rate your travel key, not a problem. | [13:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds all good. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter if the new model is deployed sooner rather than later, I'll re-rate dorion_road's travel key to 2 as well so he can speak as he needs to, what. | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Dec-2019#1013342 – sounds good. | [13:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:33:52 jfw: diana_coman: I see that without a firm decision it would default to option a, which sounds none too appealing. I think my free time on the holiday would be best allocated to reading; if I find myself inspired to continue coding then so much the better, but unwise to bank on it. So I'd better take option b and it'd be a good practice to learn anyway. I recall you linked an example from eulora work | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Dec-2019#1013345 – btw, this was *yet another one* of those asking-without-asking; jfw if you keep at it, I'll start thinking I'm enabling bad habits by even tolerating those at all. | [14:19] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 12:52:15 jfw: but with the contemplated change, I gather I won't be able to stay in the channel except when speaking, unless a lord rates my travel key +2 | [14:19] |
| jfw: | right you are diana_coman, noted. | [14:24] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-17#1013354 << This resonates with me quite a bit actually, as I have definitely caught myself doing this "internal sliding" before. Anyways, I have added my key takeaways for each year. Ty for the feedback | [20:02] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-17 14:57:44 diana_coman: the main trouble with "implicit" is that you can (and will) conveniently ignore/change it/lie to yourself about it, that's how it goes; so yeah, explicit & written down. | [20:02] |
#ossasepia Logs for 16 Dec 2019
| spyked: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012415 <– aite, sorry for the delay (ugh, I've been doing this too often for the last coupla weeks). will do this asap | [05:44] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 13:10:45 diana_coman: spyked: can you add the younghands.club feed to feedbot in here? | [05:44] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: thanks! and wb. | [05:46] |
| spyked: | ty diana_coman, it's good to be back | [05:48] |
| spyked: | feedbot's up and checking for yh feeds for the chan. pl0x to let me know if it misbehaves | [06:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: My day started late (at about 11am) because I got back late last night and slept in. I spent about 7h setting up my VM, and then did 1hr of reading + 25mins preparing my article for tomorrow (today). For the vm’s os i am using centos 6. I got sbcl and quicklisp running on the vm and was able to load trinque’s code. There were some hiccups in getting sbcl working… the version I could get from yum was t | [10:18] |
| whaack: | oo old / incompatible with the libraries trinque’s code uses, and for some reason the latest version on sbcl’s couldn’t build. I was eventually able to get version 1.4.14 running smoothly. I can create a swank server on the remote machine and connect my local slime via an ssh tunnel. I am currently working on getting postgres running on the VM. | [10:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm sending the eod report this morning because there was a net split last night. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds ok but you should write-up the above and publish on your blog really. | [10:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have been taking notes including all the commands I ran to produce the writeup, I was thinking the article is incomplete without postgres running but I guess it would be useful to have a standalone how to 'centos6 VM w/ sbcl running a swank server' | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it can wait until you have postgres running too and you publish it all in one article, not a problem | [10:27] |
| lobbes: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/15/ejb-plan-week-0-dec-16th-dec-22nd/#comment-209 << diana_coman on my way out the door to saltmines, but I indeed forgot deadlines; will add tonight. | [10:59] |
| lobbes: | bbl | [10:59] |
| lobbes: | (I linked to wrong comment above, should be: http://younghands.club/2019/12/15/ejb-plan-week-0-dec-16th-dec-22nd/#comment-212) | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: works. | [11:37] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I didn't further comment on your blog and review as I think they got quite covered during Saturday's discussion; is there though anything specific in there you want to ask about? | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | meant plan* and review. | [15:42] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks, saturday covered it quite well indeed. I'll add the discussion as a comment where it makes sense. saturday was clear and at this point I don't have any questions. I'm on track to meet my deadline for the tmsr os mission and vision genesis article today with buffer. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: cool, glad to hear it. | [16:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, due dates have been added. | [20:26] |
| lobbes: | whaack: I've started to poke around the remote-saltmine market. I was wondering if you could recommend any specific job seeking strategy that helped you snag yours, or if it was simply a wot-hookup (looking back, virtually all of my jobs I've landed in the last decade were through my meat-wot; have never had much luck with the indeed.com or linkedin platforms) | [20:26] |
| lobbes: | dorion_road: I also wanted to pick your brain re: my eventual report on the state of the ebuilds. Where I currently stand is I've only ever used Portage; I've never really dug into it. I know it is a beast, so I was hoping that you could help me narrow my focus onto what specifically you'd like me to find out about it | [20:26] |
| whaack: | lobbes: My high school has a mailing list for all the students who were active in the comp sci community. I got my current gig responding to a job posting there. So no, I don't have a systematic job search strategy that works for everyone. In general I believe scanning one's meatwot is the best way to go. One strategy I've heard of although never tried is spamming employees at companies with referral programs. Then instead of being | [20:40] |
| whaack: | 1 in 1,000 emails sent to a recruiter, you are the ~only email, and you explain to the employee why you think you can get the job and remind them that 'hey if they hire me you get ,000' | [20:40] |
| whaack: | (or whatever the referral bonus is) | [20:41] |
| lobbes: | whaack: That is an interesting idea re: spamming employees at companies with referral programs. Mailing lists at old schools are something I didn't think of, I'll poke at that as well. But yeah, nothing beats a healthy wot | [20:48] |
| lobbes: | whaack: ty for the infos | [20:48] |
| whaack: | lobbes: gl. i'll be looking for a new gig soon as well since my contract finishes in February. If I see a good opportunity i'll send it your way. | [20:51] |
| lobbes: | whaack: tyvm (and gl on your search as well) | [20:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 15 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | as I finally realise that there are a few names I don't even know: lobbes, what's the J in ejb for? dorion_road, what's the M in rmd for? | [09:42] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman michael, robinson michael dorion. | [11:21] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: james | [11:28] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: btw speaking of names, how do I properly pronounce your last name? I've always assumed I knew but never confirmed it | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: thanks. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: thanks; and heh, you should prolly wonder how to properly pronounce even the first if you are after properly pronouncing, lol. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | coman is quite easy/as it seems really – as long as you don't introduce in there any spurious l (colman) or the like (as English-speakers seem to be sorely tempted to do); hah, there's even a youtube on it, look at that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NT0oC_oxY | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what languages do you speak ? | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw the switch to diana was mainly to spare the English going red in the face trying but failing to pronounce irina; at least for diana they have some reasonable idea that works. | [11:38] |
| diana_coman: | hello DKordic | [11:59] |
| DKordic: | Greetings, diana_coman and everyone else. | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | what brings you here, DKordic ? | [12:03] |
| DKordic: | I enjoyed Your blog. It was inspiring. | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, nice to hear that! | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | what did you read/like? | [12:04] |
| DKordic: | Let say loper-os.org the most :) . | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, that would be asciilifeform's blog! | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what are you interested in? | [12:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | DKordic: I'll let asciilifeform know when I see him in a few minutes, we're about to head out for some tourism | [12:06] |
| jfw: | sounds like quite some adventuring over there BingoBoingo, enjoy! | [12:07] |
| DKordic: | Excellent. Enjoy. | [12:07] |
| DKordic: | As we can see I am a bit slow :) . | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | take your time. | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did I answer more than you asked for? lolz. | [12:10] |
| DKordic: | I still have to think about it. As some say ""it restored my faith in humanity!"" It can be contrasted with http://dev.to/ and even worse http://medium.com/, but those should not even be mentioned, so I apologize ;) . ""The least we know about them the better. "" | [12:14] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: heh, I actually did a brief dive into dev.to at some point – it saved at least one person | [12:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-08-11 11:57:46 diana_coman: shrysr: eh, you realise that it's because I wasted some time in that shithole, precisely trying to see if there was anyone lost in there | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: do you have a blog? | [12:21] |
| diana_coman: | knowing stuff even about shit and shitholes can still have its uses even if it's indeed not a very pleasant way to spend one's time, sure. | [12:23] |
| DKordic: | Not yet. I am strugling with a diary (ChangeLog if You like), a private blog. | [12:23] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: why private ? | [12:23] |
| DKordic: | Yes, I saw Your thought about dev.to. | [12:23] |
| DKordic: | It has to start somewhere. I don't have much to say publicly (yet). | [12:24] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: eh, that's never true, you know? look here, you *are* saying something publicly, you know? | [12:25] |
| DKordic: | :3 | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | don't be shy, it's not to your advantage really; and there's nothing to lose for speaking publicly, quite the opposite. | [12:25] |
| DKordic: | What are most straightforward ways to set up a blog? | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | hmmm, that straightforward part is not-all-that-well defined, as it depends on what you find straightforward | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: how are you with computers, if you don't mind me asking? | [12:29] |
| DKordic: | Yes, exactly. It was a sily question. | [12:30] |
| DKordic: | Just an enthusiast. | [12:30] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: eh, don't beat your questions up right from the start, let them grow first :)) | [12:31] |
| DKordic: | Or more of a gambler ;) . | [12:31] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: an ethusiastic gambler? | [12:31] |
| DKordic: | I wanted to say, successful as a gambler. | [12:32] |
| DKordic: | [ROFL] | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: and what does that mean more precisely? lol | [12:33] |
| diana_coman: | re blog, the way it goes whether you find it "straightforward" or not is to get yourself a server (even if it's a cheap virtual machine only, to start with), install mpwp above and then get going; there are a few guides around to help you along, you can ask and people will help, it should be doable. | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | iirc some providers even have profiles for VM ie you can get it directly with php and apache and mysql installed so you need only stand up mpwp | [12:35] |
| diana_coman: | but then choose centos 6 so you have reasonable versions of everything or it'll be a huge pain. | [12:36] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: do you mind if I ask you how old you are? | [12:37] |
| DKordic: | s/successful/as successful/ | [12:37] |
| DKordic: | Born: 1991 | [12:37] |
| diana_coman: | cool, thanks. | [12:37] |
| DKordic: | I am currently studying http://www.t3x.org/clc/index.html and similar. What do You think about that website setup? | [12:38] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: it's not a good one for interacting with people and *most* of the benefit of having a blog/writing publicly is exactly the interaction with people | [12:39] |
| DKordic: | I see. | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | I get it, it's very "cool" and hacky and good ole' green on black, sure. | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: don't fall for the "recluse" and "working alone against the evil world" or something like that, it's not worth it. | [12:42] |
| DKordic: | I will give my best. | [12:43] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what do you want to do with Lambda Calculus that you are studying that and similar? | [12:43] |
| DKordic: | Not to waste so much of my effort in daily use of computers. | [12:51] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: what's your daily use of computers about? (ie what do you do with them?) | [12:52] |
| DKordic: | Only practice programming :3 . ""Art for the sake of art"", or more precisely ""LiSP"" :D . | [13:01] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: well, I enjoyed functional programming so I can see the appeal but seriously now, what's wrong with doing something …useful too, hm? | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | I'll get to call that "art for the snake of art" – fixed it for you :D | [13:03] |
| DKordic: | OK What would be something useful for a start? In other words what should I ame for? | [13:05] |
| DKordic: | s/ame/aim/ | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: there's about a ton of work to be done around here, from tmsr-os to eulora game, computer graphics and anything under the sun; the question is more along the lines of …who are you really ? :) | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: you should register a key with deedbot too to …start being someone around here anyway; see http://deedbot.org/help.html | [13:08] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: know also that you do not have to wait to "be ready" or "know X and Y" or something like that; the sooner you dive in, the faster you'll advance (provided you do make the right decisions and put in the required work, true). | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: seriously, what happened to you? | [13:14] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013217 << not at all! I asked those q's right after I woke up and checked logs, then went about morning business. In retrospect, I oughta have said I was going afk | [13:14] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-15 16:06:12 diana_coman: lobbes: did I answer more than you asked for? lolz. | [13:14] |
| lobbes: | (Then I saw you were engaged with DKordic; didn't want to interrupt the flow) | [13:14] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013200 << aha okay, it turns out I was pretty close in my head somehow! ty | [13:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-15 15:29:15 diana_coman: coman is quite easy/as it seems really – as long as you don't introduce in there any spurious l (colman) or the like (as English-speakers seem to be sorely tempted to do); hah, there's even a youtube on it, look at that, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5NT0oC_oxY | [13:15] |
| lobbes: | ended up looking up both diana and irina via that same youtube source, and will admit to playing irina a few times before he could parse lol | [13:15] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-15#1013201 << I am still ESL sadly. I've haphazardly been practicing both German and Spanish for about 4 years, but no serious study. fwiw I took French in high school, but I retained pretty much none of it (though I find that I did retain some of the general pronunciation rules of French, if that makes sense) | [13:15] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-15 15:31:35 diana_coman: lobbes: what languages do you speak ? | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, at least the French pronunciation rules should have helped really; anyways, yes, you should have said *something*; don't just vanish like that. | [13:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: roger that. In the future I'll let you know before I vanish lol | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | as the Ro saying goes, "nu disparea ca magaru-n ceata" (~don't vanish like an ass in the fog) | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | so you know now. | [13:20] |
| lobbes: | read that translation first as "ass in the frog" | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | why not :)) | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: but seriously, not only "before vanish"; it's the good old "acknowledge stuff", ok? | [13:20] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this I do understand. I will make sure to acknowledge | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | DKordic: take your time as needed but also *ask* questions – still as needed. | [13:22] |
| DKordic: | OK Thank You. | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | no problem at all. | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: When I start parking bots in other channels on other networks per your instructions on my review, would you like me to (1) ask whether or not the chan admins mind if the bot takes a seat in the room (2) place the bot in the room unannounced, but use a nick with 'bot' as a suffix (3) place the bot in the room with a nick that makes it appear human ? | [13:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hmmm, for the lolz I'd do 2 and log who/where/if kicks you out and after how long but for the practical side, I'd just go with 3 for starters; just set a timer ie don't join at the same time all channels or something; there's a bit more to this in that you should adapt it to get the full list of channels for a network, set a timer and then join them gradually. | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | I'm even curious whether/how many/where would try to engage anyway | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | also, set it on some VM, hopefully that's obvious. | [13:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the VM is obvious | [13:52] |
| whaack: | especially given my pura vida internet (although I would put it on a VM regardless) | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | given how many nicks are anyway ~bots ie just linger there, I can't possibly see what would be a reasonable objection to the bot logging but then again, I don't expect much reasonable. | [13:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Do you have an objection to me sticking with digitalocean for this? | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, no objection; do you understand the goal of this? | [14:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: my understanding is it is to look for individuals doing anything productive. | [14:12] |
| whaack: | or maybe it could be phrased 'to look for rooms containing individuals doing something productive' | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, there's very little chance/expectation of that and moreover that makes for a rather poor goal in itself because it fails to ensure you get something out of the activity itself no matter what the outcome (which is not predictable/under your control); | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen, the effort will be spent anyway, regardless of whether there are productive individuals anywhere to be found; therefore it should be structured upfront as what it is namely a systematic exploration of what is there; | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | it's not the idiotic "let us prove this theory" but the sane "let us explore and find out the state of the practice" | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | as a result, the *systematic* part is quite important | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | ie you want to make sure you cover (gradually, sure) all networks and all chans in a network + for a reasonably long time, if at all possible | [14:19] |
| diana_coman: | collect all data and store it properly (so you know what is from where and when) & then proceed to analyse it and see what's there. | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | open-ended question really. | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does the above make full sense? | [14:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes | [14:20] |
| whaack: | I see how my stated goal was closer to ~ "let us prove this theory" | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | if you need to/think it's useful, you can even launch a fleet of bots so they join different channels with different names or whatever, that part is entirely up to you. | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | what I want out of this is a systematic exploration of the irc space; proper data and then we see from there. | [14:22] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [14:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Understood. Having bots with different names seems like a necessary step since the search will be exhaustive, and network admins may kick a nick they see in every channel. In the same vain it'd be better to have a collection of different ip addrs that the bots were connecting from. Having a list of ips seems more difficult/expensive. | [14:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hmmm, not sure why exactly would they be bothered by a nick that is in every channel really? ie it's not spamming or anything so..? | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, the trouble is more that if there is such nonsense, it will not be neatly defined like that "in every channel" but some inane "oh, I saw this too many times" or something; perhaps it helps to set it up on some znc so it doesn't flicker much but other than that I'm not sure there's a lot you can do against nonsense as such. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | I'd say give it first a go without bothering much about this and we find out at least if it is a problem in the first place. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | if it turns out that there IS this problem, we can *then* decide what to do about it (there are plenty of solutions really). | [15:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, I won't try to preemptively address these types of problems. I am not sure what you mean about 'setting up on some znc so it doesn't flicker.' Since my logbot fleet will run on a VM (and with something somewhere else checking to make sure the process is running / restarting it if it goes dead), I wouldn't understand the point of having the logbot fleet also connected via a bouncer. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | ah, the checker should be enough, yes. | [15:34] |
#ossasepia Logs for 14 Dec 2019
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: php code showing on your blog where the comments list should be – maybe excess space in the <?php | [01:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Will take a quick look | [01:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my re-reading article ~5h, setup jfw's keksum ~35min, pressed the vpatches on trinque's page ~1hr (this had a few bumps along the way. for ex: some of the vpatches used keccak for the hashes in the vdiff and others sha512sum. i was using a slightly modified v.pl v99993 which i needed to find out how to further tweak to deal with keksum only having one space between the hash and the filename in t | [01:00] |
| whaack: | he output.) I got trinque's logbot (different than ircbot) running with a local postgres db ~2h. — All the time estimates are fairly rough. I do not have a draft of an article for setting up logbot as per my original plan, instead I have just a few hand written notes. There was some spinning today, but not an extensive amount. I spent ~1h chopping vegetables into zip lock bags to save time cooking for the next few days. I also had | [01:00] |
| whaack: | a neighbor over for ~45mins in the evening. | [01:00] |
| BingoBoingo_: | jfw: ty, comments restored | [01:04] |
| BingoBoingo_: | space snuck its way in the tags | [01:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012977 – worth trying really; esp the full remote since it would give you both your time back and way more flexibility on all directions really. | [05:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 21:10:53 lobbes: diana_coman: to switch to full remote would require switching to another employer, the Hong Kong jobs could be done via current employer | [05:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1012981 – hm, that article doesn't go very far esp for the 5 hours that do not include the reading, re-reading and general prep for it; why so dry and tortured anyway? | [05:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 01:00:57 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I published my re-reading article ~5h, setup jfw's keksum ~35min, pressed the vpatches on trinque's page ~1hr (this had a few bumps along the way. for ex: some of the vpatches used keccak for the hashes in the vdiff and others sha512sum. i was using a slightly modified v.pl v99993 which i needed to find out how to further tweak to deal with keksum only having one space between the hash and the filename in t | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1012982 – ugh; next will be those "froze your food to save time"? I'm not even sure it does, if all the cleaning etc are added up but at any rate, it's "saved" at the cost of shittier food, inevitably; if you want to save time, learn to cook properly ie meals that 1. take only a quick setup and then will cook fine while you do something else 2. are part of a process so for the price … | [05:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 01:00:57 whaack: he output.) I got trinque's logbot (different than ircbot) running with a local postgres db ~2h. — All the time estimates are fairly rough. I do not have a draft of an article for setting up logbot as per my original plan, instead I have just a few hand written notes. There was some spinning today, but not an extensive amount. I spent ~1h chopping vegetables into zip lock bags to save time cooking for the next few days. I also had | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | … of the slightly longer prep on day 1 + quick and painless adjustment on subsequent days you are set for the whole week. | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | cooking courses wasn't something I had at all in mind for this school here, lmao. | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012900 – did I miss this somehow? | [05:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 15:56:14 dorion_road: diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [05:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I believe the article came out poorly because I took it in the wrong direction at the start. At multiple points I considered tossing it and trying to write something new, but I didn't want to have yet another article that consumed my whole week. | [09:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it seems like you really fret too much over "is this the wrong direction"; if it's a direction you want to explore, then write it out and explore it, what. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | and don't "toss it" – publish it + write something new. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it can very well be that you did the equivalent of writing yourself in a corner, so what. | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyways, quite enough of this already as it's not getting that much better as it is, is it? | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | so from Monday you'll write and publish one article every day; set aside half hour to plan it the day before, 1-1.5hours in the morning to write it, perhaps another 15 minutes somewhere to do a review and that's it. | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | I suggest you do plan in advance at least as general topics so you have some roadmap but up to you otherwise. | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | and happy birthday whaack ! | [09:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think my writing ability is improving, but maybe not and at a snails pace anyways. The timed articles every morning seems like a good strategy, I will put it in for next week. | [09:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thank you! | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | it probably IS improving but snail's pace indeed. | [09:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The short daily articles seem fun, I'm looking forward to writing them. | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | good then. | [09:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am working on my review for the week right now. Following this http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012246 I am writing my review in the following format (1) I am putting each day's plan next to the corresponding EOD report, and I am writing a footnote that contains [http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012249][an analysis of why the report was what it was and how to improve in the futur | [10:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 09:47:05 diana_coman: whaack: at some point you'll have to review those plans too overall, in one of the weekly reviews, it's not *all* just "how I changed". | [10:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 09:55:02 whaack: diana_coman: Yes. Simplfying: the report is the 'what' and the review is the 'why.' The review needs to include an analysis of why the report was what it was and how to improve in the future. | [10:01] |
| whaack: | e.] | [10:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Does that work or would you rather I write my review differently? | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, the point is the review not the plan so doesn't it make more sense the other way around ie you are writing the analysis while the eod+plan are the supporting info hence in there only as needed and in principle out of the way (so in footnotes or just linked or cited as/when needed) | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | the way you describe it, it sounds like the point is plan+eod with the actual analysis tucked away out of sight or something. | [10:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: You're right the analysis is the meat of the article so it should not in footnotes. | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | yes; and moreover, the plan+eod are already written/available so it's not a copy/paste job to do there; write it as a proper analysis & review, not a collage of plan&eod. | [10:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well it's done for the convenience of having the plan/eod in one spot next to each other. But I will this 'the plan&eod collage' as just a footnote to my otherwise 'proper analysis & review' | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | sure, that's fine. | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I went through your keksum proggy and it's been quite a pleasure really; a few nitpicks on top of those: 1. why default/fallthrough on "bad option" instead of the more useful help option? 2. you have nicely everywhere except in usage_err in main.c where it's s 3. just out of curiosity really since … | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | … otherwise it's of course not a problem at all: since you unrolled various bits basically + made the table for rho, how/why did you choose where to stop with the unrolling anyway? and why not use the constants for iota instead of calc each time (ie lfsr)? 4. why oh why only self-gen test? not like there weren't values and/or ways to obtain them, lolz! | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, once you regrind perhaps to fix the test at least, I'll gladly sign and mirror it. | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ahem. | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I want to talk to you this evening. | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl. | [10:51] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman okay, thanks. 7pm UTC as normal ? | [11:02] |
| jfw: | hits publish on 1849-word, 141-photo article finishing the Uruguay photolog. | [12:24] |
| jfw: | With due note that I didn't get anything out yesterday. | [12:24] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: thanks for that window, fire away on yours as you like. | [12:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-09 23:01:44 BingoBoingo: jfw: I'll also give you a healthy window to get your photoblog out first. | [12:27] |
| jfw: | my net connection did return yesterday ftr. | [12:33] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013020 – thanks diana_coman! | [12:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 10:25:32 diana_coman: jfw: I went through your keksum proggy and it's been quite a pleasure really; a few nitpicks on top of those: 1. why default/fallthrough on "bad option" instead of the more useful help option? 2. you have nicely everywhere except in usage_err in main.c where it's s 3. just out of curiosity really since … | [12:45] |
| jfw: | 1. usage_err does show the help, but returns a failure status whereas explicit help returns success. | [12:48] |
| jfw: | 2. mixed spaces and tab too, good catch! | [12:49] |
| jfw: | 3. iirc I unrolled where it would allow precomputing arithmetic and especially mod-5 ops in inner loops. Iota does relatively little work, just touching one lane per round, so I preferred to keep it in 'source' form rather than magic numbers which you'd then have to verify against someone else's. | [12:54] |
| jfw: | The table in rho I cribbed straight from the pdf. | [12:55] |
| jfw: | 4. just to clarify, I did use the provided tests for the permutation, but don't recall seeing any for the sponge, perhaps I should look harder. | [12:57] |
| jfw: | "It seems you forgot to update the expected test hash in test-sponge.sh so now the test will fail." – yep, that's what I meant in http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012925 | [12:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 17:32:13 jfw: gah, one test broken anyway by the default capacity change, but otherwise working for me, let me check on those errors. | [12:58] |
| jfw: | "why the -Woverlength-strings in main.c, isn't that included in -pedantic" – the way the pragma works is to *disable* that warning as it's tripped by the help text. The 'wat' expands to roughly: 'why does c89 allow compilers to limit strings to something as low as 509 characters? wtf am I supposed to do about this? I have no intention of supporting such broken compilers, next they'll be limiting | [13:05] |
| jfw: | source file length too.' | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: 7pm works best, yes. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahhh, for some reason I was under the impression that -pedantic enables it, not disables it; but yes, it's at any rate a total wtf; the comment re "wat" is that it's…cryptic for a comment, you know? | [13:27] |
| diana_coman: | more like "notes to self" than comment; there's a bit of that at times in other places too, a sort of "if you know this already, here's a reminder to think of it" rather than "in short it's this and otherwise here's ref (if applicable"; but anyways, it'll probably get better as you publish code rather than just use it yourself alone. | [13:29] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: -pedantic does enable it among others, hence then disabling the specific one as a sort of false positive. | [13:42] |
| jfw: | makes sense on comments vs notes to self. Writing code for the human reader first and only incidentally to be executed by machine. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: uhm, wait; you have in there -Woverlength-strings – isn't that the enable? ie the disable is -Wno-overlength-strings isn't it? | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | ah, diagnostic ignored, gah. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | nm, now I see. | [13:50] |
| jfw: | The thinking behind the #pragma is to make it a harder suppression at least for that file, so you can tweak compiler options as desired without this non-problem resurfacing. | [13:54] |
| jfw: | In "'static linking considered harmful' considered harmful" news from OpenBSD: "ld.so may fail to remove the LD_LIBRARY_PATH environment variable for set-user-ID and set-group-ID executables in low memory conditions." | [14:28] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm standing by. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: http://younghands.club/2019/12/14/rmd-plan-dec-14th-20th-2019/?b=best&e=anticipated#select – this is btw true; it also includes the unstated *faster* and that comes with its own set of + and -. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | I get it that you are fully-focused on tmsr-os and it's huge and overwhelming and you want the initial burst and to make it good and all that, fine' | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | but a. it still has to be sustainable b. it's still not the only thing that matters because it's not in isolation c. by the looks of it you are working more in "emergency" mode than by any sort of planning | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | and it's not even clear how good a use you are making of all those hours that I am ready to believe you are indeed pouring into it. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing saying 20/40 hours on tmsr os is not by itself all that much planning and for the other, does the output match all that? | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | there's also a limit to how much "more time" poured like that indiscrimately into one single task really does | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | all the above aside for a moment, there's also the glaring http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012900 | [15:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 15:56:14 dorion_road: diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: do you see the big trouble with the above? | [15:13] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yes. the weaker habits and emergency mode are exposed further by being in vermont mode. I don't come here often and when I do I try to learn about the roots of the bad habits. that's what got away from me this week and caused the missed deadlines. I'm not sure how much of that is avoidance of the immensity of tmsr os. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: there's one thing to miss a deadline; another thing to miss it *silently*; an alltogether different level of mess to postpone something by means of a proposed deadline and then miss *that* silently. | [15:16] |
| dorion_road: | right. and it's not the first time I've let that pass or you pointing it out. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: the holiday/home-mode is understandable and part of why I actually kept trying to hold you back from overplanning even more than usual; either you accept it as such and therefore stop the pretense that you'll do it ALL and NOW or otherwise something somewhere will give. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: for that matter, there were supposedly 4 hours gained out of dropping that spurious December plan; where did those go? | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and furthermore, weren't you supposed to *ask for help* instead of avoiding the immensity or whatever else? | [15:20] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman at this point the marginal gain of the holiday/home-mode has diminished substantially. | [15:21] |
| dorion_road: | combined with moving faster and less perfectionism this week, I'm excited to see how much I improve. | [15:22] |
| dorion_road: | and yes, asking for help is point #1. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013065 – it's the first time you did however the "sales man" on me -whether you realise it or not- and that's just about the surest way to shoot yourself in the head as far as I'm concerned. | [15:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:17:28 dorion_road: right. and it's not the first time I've let that pass or you pointing it out. | [15:23] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I didn't realize it. | [15:24] |
| dorion_road: | can you please clarify how it's a "sales man" ? I said it in acknowledgement of the loop because I know I have to fix it. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013064 – that is what I mean there by a different level of mess. | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:16:39 diana_coman: dorion_road: there's one thing to miss a deadline; another thing to miss it *silently*; an alltogether different level of mess to postpone something by means of a proposed deadline and then miss *that* silently. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ah, not the ack line but this: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012900 | [15:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 15:56:14 dorion_road: diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [15:26] |
| dorion_road: | oh, I see. huh. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | ie you said the right thing to get something out of it and went and did something entirely else. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | besides the fact that I find it in general despicable as such, realise that if you keep fucking up your own word like that, the result will be that your word will be worth in the negatives. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know if that is crystal clear enough so you fully get it; is it? | [15:29] |
| dorion_road: | I should've done what I said. I've moved my plan/review day a bit, and do like the idea of the friday review better. but I have to act it out. | [15:29] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yes, very much so. and apologise for evoking the disgust. the only thing I see I can do now is not do it anymore. | [15:30] |
| dorion_road: | i.e. deliver on my word. | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I should very much hope so; and to increase the chances of this: do you get above why & how it's not *just* a missed deadline? | [15:32] |
| dorion_road: | yes, it's also a discussion on saturday costing your time, my time and all the log readers that would be available for whatever other productive thing if my act was together. | [15:34] |
| dorion_road: | and more costs on top of that. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | and the simple fact that it's a double miss and one worse than the other: one is the deadline itself; the other is the additional promise there "this is handled in the review and you'll see it tomorrow" | [15:36] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: did you notice you missed that self-proposed deadline before it was pointed out? | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter note that you could have said there "on Sunday" or whatevers if you knew – and by the timings you should have – that you still had a lot of work to do to finish that AAC article that was due on Sat morning. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | that grates additionally precisely because it projects the pretense – will say that should be and that's enough, ain't it. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | I'm quite sure he noticed although he hates so much noticing this sort of things that he'll bury himself in work instead of dealing with it. | [15:39] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: fwiw I don't think you were *trying* to bait-and-switch anyone but ended up fooling yourself foremost – saying you'll do it as an attempt to build your enthusiasm perhaps? | [15:39] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly. | [15:40] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman right. I'm going to have to reconcile this convo with the review and see what key points I missed. | [15:40] |
| dorion_road: | jfw I noticed last night and pointed it out as notes in both the review and the plan I publlished this morning. | [15:40] |
| jfw: | ah ok I'm behind there then. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I took jfw's question to mean *before* the deadline actually passed. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | when it's the time to notice anyway. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: now tell me, did I get anything incorrectly above? | [15:43] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I reckon you're correct. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: any questions/unclear parts ? | [15:45] |
| dorion_road: | deal with what has to be dealt with, ask for help, deliver on the word. | [15:46] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm going to give it a couple reads this weekend and will ask if anything's unclear. thank you. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: what do you consider that "ask for help" to mean in the context of the tmsr-os task immensity ? | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw I don't think he set out on purpose for this, hence my whether you realise it or not – because he possibly didn't even realise the full extent of it; that's also why we can move forwards anyway. | [15:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:23:25 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013065 – it's the first time you did however the "sales man" on me -whether you realise it or not- and that's just about the surest way to shoot yourself in the head as far as I'm concerned. | [15:49] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman well, there's help with the various parts, from technical decisions to, as mp pointed out, understanding what an os even is. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and there's asking for help with http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-14-Dec-2019#1013056 | [15:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:10:46 diana_coman: but a. it still has to be sustainable b. it's still not the only thing that matters because it's not in isolation c. by the looks of it you are working more in "emergency" mode than by any sort of planning | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: understand that you do NOT have to do it ALL NOW; not sure how to get this through to you better. | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | I big part of how I've asked for help so far is to write articles, expecting questions, feedback, etc. | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | that is not asking, do you realise? | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | A big* | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | perhaps I didn't, holy shit. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: asking means exactly that: question *asked* of someone | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | yes, around here I tend to make allowances to some extent and help at times before the explicit ask – mainly because there's relatively little time; but if you don't ask a question, it's not asking. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | and not a question somewhere in the article either, ok? | [15:54] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman makes sense. and yes a question of someone directly. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | hmm, an example of the sorta-kinda-not-really asking for help in my own work, compared to more direct asking but still in article only | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: so back to your newest plan that you packed again with 3 AAC since yeah, that's right, only last week I was saying that two AAC for one week are quite enough | [15:58] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I chose 3 based on the estimated time, not total tasks. | [15:59] |
| dorion_road: | that's where I confused your advice, if I now understand you. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: at least there's one not on tmsr-os, there is that; thing is, I rather doubt the 4hours is a good estimate for the +ev | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: both the total duration and the number matter for this sort of thing | [16:01] |
| jfw: | 3h for "Review everything that's fallen by the wayside these past 2 months and write about how I prioritize." sounds pretty optimisitc too but maybe that's just me… | [16:02] |
| dorion_road: | I should probably double to +ev then. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | because changing context also costs and moreover it can even be more tiresome to give it all on 3 separate tasks than on a bigger single one; but at any rate, perhaps even more clear: look there than other than the usual weekly tasks (keeping up with logs and so on), basically ALL of the rest are AAC | [16:02] |
| dorion_road: | now that you've pointed it out as such, the emergency mode is underlined. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: the further nudge that I'll spell out now is to plan each and every week at least one non-tmsr-os item too; it's not even all that productive to lock yourself into such narrow focus, not even for the first month; and moreover, it's precisely this sort of too-focused-on-just-this that increases the pressure of "immense task" rather than putting it in perspective: it might be immense, sure, but it's still to be taken one … | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | … step at a time and it's still just one out of all the rest. | [16:05] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman will do. and thanks for really spelling it out. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: part of the faster is that as you might have noticed in the rather recent discussions in #t, there's all sort of questions for which you'd have had the link ready except overdue | [16:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 15:08:35 diana_coman: dorion_road: http://younghands.club/2019/12/14/rmd-plan-dec-14th-20th-2019/?b=best&e=anticipated#select – this is btw true; it also includes the unstated *faster* and that comes with its own set of + and -. | [16:09] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-14 dorion_road: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-12-13#1955315 << I shared a bit in #o a couple months back, and have some overdue articles to publish detailing, but the short is I worked 2 years for euro pacific bank, a start up at the time. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | it's not just a coincidence really. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | So focus on one big thing at a time, since changing context costs ('loading into head'), but not to an excess that it blocks out everything else – is that the balance to aim for, diana_coman? | [16:11] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman right you are, not a coincidence. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: so now, tmsr-os may be huge but it still is to be taken one step at a time, prioritizing (and re-evaluating priorities if needed) at every step; there is help to be had on all aspects, not only technical, but you just need to ask for it rather than try to deal with all of it on your own, it's not like there isn't enough work for you otherwise, seriously now. | [16:13] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'll focus on what's mine to do, do it well, and what's mine to ask, ask it well. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the exact number (whether just one) might be at times not entirely his decision because well, if it burns, it has to get done; but otherwise yes, that sounds towards the right direction. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: and before the deadline too :P | [16:16] |
| dorion_road: | takes the point | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: funny that although it started with jfw almost getting daily chat in his plan, by the looks of it, it's you risking to end up with it formalised as such, do you realise? | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-25 16:12:23 diana_coman: is seriously considering making 15 minutes daily chat part of jfw's weekly plan otherwise | [16:18] |
| jfw: | indeed I don't think he has the "just one" option right now… and speaking of which, dorion_road you gonna have time to hang out next weekend if I make the drive over? Would certainly be good for us getting back in sync | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | I didn't realize, but I do now. | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | jfw yeah I'll make time, come on over. | [16:20] |
| jfw: | great. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you'll have to tell me how black-and-blue you find him, ok? lolz | [16:21] |
| jfw: | haha, and I'll try to add to that no more than strictly necessary. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: I gather you'll have quite the log to process but do take heart from it too – it wouldn't be there if I didn't think you can make best use of it. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahaha, before-and-after photos/ | [16:26] |
| jfw: | on my own priorities, the first draft of working online wallet component was done by moved-deadline yesterday, perhaps I blog it tomorrow. (Open to naming suggestions for the proggy…) Now to dig back into the offline side. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, are you asking-but-not-asking? | [16:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: An early EOD report, since surfpals are coming over for birthday fiesta soon: I did my review/plan for the week and did 30 mins of Spanish studying. I had a 1h block of reading scheduled for today that I am not sure I will get to do because I plan to drink a bit tn. | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | ahaaha, jfw careful not to let that birthday payback leak in before it's due, there may be counterpunch to come :) | [16:31] |
| jfw: | …it would appear so. Currently it's a rather uninspired 'gbw-node' (as in Gales Bitcoin Wallet, node-like part). Suggestions anyone? | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman quite the log indeed. and thank you. heart taken. | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | jfw what would you call the offline part ? gbw-keys ? | [16:33] |
| jfw: | gbwallet perhaps | [16:34] |
| jfw: | previously was just wallet.scm | [16:34] |
| dorion_road: | jfw I don't know if so uninspired, you've put a lot into the Gales name. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw I don't see any problem/trouble with gales wallet although gbw doesn't exactly roll off the tongue or anything. | [16:36] |
| dorion_road: | could do gales-node, gales-wallet | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eh, go and enjoy the party, don't mix it with reading (unless you do party-loud-reading or something) | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: have fun (and great presents!) | [16:37] |
| jfw: | gbnode not bad actually since the database is presently 1-2GB | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: thank you :) | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: may I suggest also eoihgwouthnode? | [16:39] |
| jfw: | felices fiestas whaack | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | other combinations equally readable :D | [16:39] |
| jfw: | lol, though not equally typeable perhaps | [16:39] |
| jfw: | tab complete!! | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you want /aim to rename, you'd need to think a bit as to what are you after really | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-14#1012999 << Kk. I'm going to add this into my week 0 workplan then (to start researching) | [19:27] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2019-12-14 09:17:57 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012977 – worth trying really; esp the full remote since it would give you both your time back and way more flexibility on all directions really. | [19:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 21:10:53 lobbes: diana_coman: to switch to full remote would require switching to another employer, the Hong Kong jobs could be done via current employer | [19:27] |
#ossasepia Logs for 13 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds all right; try jfw's keksum, good idea + you should read that too anyway; bot investigation sounds ok so continue from there and do take notes so you have them at write-up time. | [03:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I can try and use keksum this weekend and then try to digest the source next week. Before reading jfw's implementation I assume I should read the keccak reference, which looks like a sizeable task by itself. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: oh huh, you don't quite know what Keccak is? | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | but yes, you will have to read and digest Keccak, ofc, otherwise uhm, what sense exactly can you possibly make of any implementation of it, whether it's jfw's or mine or anyone else's really. | [10:58] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, Keccak is a black box for me. "s/I assume I should/I need to." | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: look perhaps through the eucrypt series, as I think I go in some detail over the Keccak mechanics as such too; iirc jfw also links some tutorials from his article introducing the genesis of his keksum. | [11:07] |
| dorion_road: | enjoyed the lobbes / diana_coman conversation, congrats to both! | [13:19] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012741 << is this a mandatory on premise saltmine ? or do you have room there to negotiate a contractor basis wrapped in a corporation, say deleware llc, and deliver the excel jockey work and administer the corporation from abroad ? | [13:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 16:50:27 lobbes: I stayed in that line of work for about 6 years until I got my current gig as an "excel jocky" (which I've been doing for about 3 yrs) | [13:20] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012755 << how much have you looked into selling the house and renting ? that'd at least provide you more liquidity. | [13:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:04:09 lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill) | [13:22] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012811 << glad to hear it. do you have any questions/comments about | [13:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:56:12 lobbes: diana_coman: The tmsr os work interests me because I think it could help me improve my overall computer literacy. Plus I think the dorion/jfw combo has some chance of bringing in money (the republic is indeed lacking profit centers). I would like to help out in that aim in some capacity | [13:25] |
| dorion_road: | the business plan ? | [13:25] |
| jfw: | hi all, my net connection's been down about an hour for reasons unknown. Mobile tethering right now and unsure if that'll be up to the task of finishing this photo-heavy article. For now I think I'll focus on investigating the net problem. | [14:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: As much as I don't like the additional suspense, it is a joy seeing these come out in pieces. Prolongs the time I get to see where I live through other people's eyes and lenses | [14:22] |
| jfw: | whaack: I'm curious at least from an academic standpoint whether keksum will build on Mac. We'll see if it's true what I heard that they killed static linking even more than Drepper did. Simple Makefile change if so. | [14:23] |
| jfw: | io.c and main.c won't require Keccak knowledge so there's all sorts of parallel approaches here. | [14:24] |
| jfw: | I certainly found diana_coman's articles helpful to whet the appetite for the full reference; I linked the first in the series. | [14:24] |
| jfw: | Digesting Keccak was pretty fun too I thought, rubik's bit cubes and sponges and all. | [14:26] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: I doubt I can do justice to all the sights at least without spending another week on it but will try! | [14:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Well, kinda how these things work. Eventually you'll tire of the men on horse statues as you did when they were in front of you | [14:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Change of plans. My keyboard is going to arrive in Santa Cruz (the nearby town I always refer to) tomorrow, so it would be a waste of time for me to go today and only be able to pick up the bank card. I am going to move the trip to town to Tuesday. I'm going to use the extra time today to keep working on studying / setting up trinque's bot. | [14:42] |
| whaack: | jfw: I'm running OSX 10.9 and I have some problems in general with installing various items, since my 'brew' (the os's package manager) is broken. So whether or not I can get keksum setup probably says little as to whether your 'average' mac user will be able to. I will report my success/failure regardless. | [14:45] |
| jfw: | 'average mac user' doesn't even have compiler or bash these days; long as you have those (which can be got right from Apple) you should be fine. | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012881 – the unexpected blows to all plans; did you sort it out meanwhile? | [15:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 14:19:39 jfw: hi all, my net connection's been down about an hour for reasons unknown. Mobile tethering right now and unsure if that'll be up to the task of finishing this photo-heavy article. For now I think I'll focus on investigating the net problem. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012885 – glad to hear it! | [15:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 14:24:56 jfw: I certainly found diana_coman's articles helpful to whet the appetite for the full reference; I linked the first in the series. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012889 – at least that makes for a better reason to spend those 5-6 hours on town-visit, certainly | [15:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 14:42:03 whaack: diana_coman: Change of plans. My keyboard is going to arrive in Santa Cruz (the nearby town I always refer to) tomorrow, so it would be a waste of time for me to go today and only be able to pick up the bank card. I am going to move the trip to town to Tuesday. I'm going to use the extra time today to keep working on studying / setting up trinque's bot. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is that town so far away or is it that poorly connected or why does it take anyway the best part of a day ? | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: where are you with the plan & changes this week? | [15:36] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I'm planning to cover it in my review to be published later today, is that okay ? | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: ok. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I determined the outage is not just me, cable provider reported ~200 endpoints down in the neighborhood and has people working on it but no ETA. I've been focusing on offline work (wallet dev) for now, no shortage of that heh. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, sounds even good for your wallet work which was highest priority anyway iirc. | [16:00] |
| jfw: | yep. Looks like I'm on track for deadline of online / node part today, minus the sendrawtransaction TRB patch. Had some technical debt to pay – schema and code refactoring, but through that and back to the top-level commands. | [16:04] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: ^ | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | not bad. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | The change I made based on MP's comments was to add address tags (many-to-many) so you can define arbitrary address sets and query them independently. Thus one node can serve many wallets or have decoy sets | [16:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is a ~1hr drive each way. The roads are 1 lane though and so problems can add 30mins+ to this. The bank takes about 30min-1hr depending on the line. Then I go grocery shopping which takes about another 40min. I also run around picking up miscellaneous items on every trip which takes another 30mins-1hr. | [16:24] |
| whaack: | jfw: Upon running make I get http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=PZLN . I ran gcc –version and got http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=33tu I learned that some version of Xcode swept gcc away and replaced it with Clang. So do you know if it is possible to compile keksum with Clang? If not I will try to get gcc installed, but it looks like I will run into the same headache I had with gnat. | [17:19] |
| jfw: | whaack: yes they switched to llvm to stick it to RMS or something; lots of effort went into making it as gcc-compatible as possible donw to the CLI options. | [17:21] |
| jfw: | Your problem there looks like the static linking thing. | [17:21] |
| jfw: | ("ld: library not found for -lcrt0.o" for the log.) | [17:22] |
| whaack: | jfw: ok so then do you know a "Simple Makefile change" I should try? Sorry if this should be self evident. | [17:24] |
| jfw: | see where it says -static in the makefile? ;) | [17:24] |
| whaack: | ahaha yeah i changed that to -dynamic | [17:24] |
| jfw: | nah just remove it. | [17:25] |
| whaack: | cool, works | [17:25] |
| jfw: | nice, runs too? | [17:25] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes, wonderful. now I can finally have a modern V on this comp. | [17:26] |
| jfw: | oh and I should mention, I updated my keksum and yrc articles with new genesis for patch renaming and changing the capacity default, last night. | [17:27] |
| jfw: | might want to make sure you have the latest, in case you want to build on it. | [17:28] |
| jfw: | whaack: does your box also have python 2? if so you can run the tests via 'make check' | [17:29] |
| whaack: | jfw: I get various errors. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=yJdp | [17:30] |
| whaack: | (the first line is missing the first c character, copy paste error) | [17:31] |
| jfw: | gah, one test broken anyway by the default capacity change, but otherwise working for me, let me check on those errors. | [17:32] |
| jfw: | that TEST_STEPS should be defined in testvectors.h which is generated by the python script. Does it look sane? | [17:33] |
| whaack: | ah testvectors.h is completely empty. maybe the python script failed silently | [17:34] |
| jfw: | did you miss copying more 'make check' output before that 'c'? | [17:35] |
| jfw: | I don't see it running at all. | [17:35] |
| whaack: | jfw: No the c was the only missing thing from the output of 'make check' (the full output here: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=ucSE ) | [17:38] |
| jfw: | try again after 'make clean' please | [17:39] |
| jfw: | that empty testvectors.h is preventing it from re-running so we don't see why it's run wrong | [17:40] |
| whaack: | jfw: I ran "python munge-testvecs.py testvectorszero.txt testvectorsnonzero.txt > testvectors.h" manually and then "make check" and got back http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=pPCn | [17:41] |
| whaack: | jfw: Now I will make clean and try again. | [17:41] |
| jfw: | interesting, you get different hash than me for the 'smoke test'. Wonder if 'yes' and 'dd' work different on mac, lol | [17:44] |
| jfw: | meanwhile you could "./keksum *" and see if hashes match what's in the vpatch. | [17:45] |
| whaack: | jfw: I found my problem. I had to switch "python2" to "python" in the Makefile. Then make clean make check gave me the same error as above ^ http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=Hc40 | [17:45] |
| jfw: | aha, always something dumb like that. python2.7 might work too, I thought major-version-only was supposed to 'always exist' but whatevs. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | plain 'python' will sometimes turn out to be python3 though, /me glares at Gentoo | [17:47] |
| whaack: | jfw: soon to be python4 no doubt | [17:47] |
| jfw: | not in my vtree :) | [17:48] |
| jfw: | any of those hashed sources pass a manual check against the vpatch at least to the first copule digits? | [17:54] |
| whaack: | jfw: yes one source file passed a full check (using grep) | [17:55] |
| whaack: | jfw: i've updated my v to use keccak and now i'm going to try to properly press trinque's bot source without getting dumped a bunch of errors for unmatched hashes | [17:56] |
| whaack: | to use keksum* | [17:56] |
| jfw: | hokay good, it's probably just that hacky pipeline to generate test data that comes out different on mac. Think I'll remove that in favor of one of the sources. | [17:56] |
| jfw: | thanks for the testing! | [17:57] |
| whaack: | jfw: thanks for the tool! | [17:57] |
| jfw: | glad it's of use. | [17:58] |
| jfw: | arguably there's a 'user error' of make on my part here too; if you create files by redirection, make won't know that the command failed because an empty file is created. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | jfw: hm a small detail I noticed about keksum. the output contains 1 space between the hash and the filename, whereas my shasum on my mac and sha512sum on ubuntu contains 2 spaces between them. Afaik there's nothing wrong with your choice, and i don't know why those other hash functions put 2 spaces instead of 1, but I have to tweak my v.pl a little more to make it be compatible with this. | [18:47] |
| jfw: | the reason those utils use 2 spaces is the second is a 'format' char that could be * for systems that distinguish text from binary. I threw that out because such systems = Windows and there's no such distinction worth making imho. Not sure what phf's "ksum" does here, that might be the precedent worth following if any. | [18:51] |
| whaack: | jfw: okay cool. | [18:55] |
| jfw: | "worth making" here I mean strictly in the sense of "a file is a series of octets and the system has no business 'helpfully' mangling newlines or whatever", obviously text vs. binary is important for human habitation. | [18:55] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012821 << btw I grok this point now in that there is a big difference between ~knowing~ what to do and actually doing it. ty for the context | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 18:04:56 diana_coman: lobbes: here, to help you re that rational point; note the apparently in there too. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012873 << ty for the congrats! | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:19:38 dorion_road: enjoyed the lobbes / diana_coman conversation, congrats to both! | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012874 << unfortunately no real room to negotiate; I'm just a wage slave for a large bank. Though they do have jobs elsewhere in the world (Hong Kong, for example), so there is a potential path there. | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:20:28 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012741 << is this a mandatory on premise saltmine ? or do you have room there to negotiate a contractor basis wrapped in a corporation, say deleware llc, and deliver the excel jockey work and administer the corporation from abroad ? | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | In addition, I know some other folks that I used to work with at my current job that were able to snag 100\% remote work doing similar things, so that is another path in the back of my mind. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012876 << this is definitely my ultimate goal (I certainly don't want to sit on this house forever). I figure I sharpen my mind a bit first while getting the house in a more sellable shape (I got to clear out from it the useless shit I've accumulated over the years, and do some minor repairs, etc.). If the Charlotte bubble doesn't pop in the meanwhile I ought to come out the other side with some | [19:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:22:29 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012755 << how much have you looked into selling the house and renting ? that'd at least provide you more liquidity. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | quidity. | [19:15] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012878 << tbh you both have real-world experience in running a business, whereas I do not. So I'm mostly just following along and learning from both the two of you and others that have offered advice/perspective. | [19:16] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 13:25:28 dorion_road: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Dec-2019#1012811 << glad to hear it. do you have any questions/comments about | [19:16] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-12-11 mp_en_viaje: "soo… well done on the 50mn exit. now, why are you at walmart with a credit card, in the same outfit as the single mother over there with her govt-issued scrip ? you know the same social worker can cut your access that gives her the electronic meal ticket, yes ?" | [19:16] |
| lobbes: | As such, I have no real questions/comments as of yet (but will definitely chime in if I do) | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012908 – ugh, a sort of commute; I guess it's the price of living on the beach otherwise. | [19:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 16:24:02 whaack: diana_coman: It is a ~1hr drive each way. The roads are 1 lane though and so problems can add 30mins+ to this. The bank takes about 30min-1hr depending on the line. Then I go grocery shopping which takes about another 40min. I also run around picking up miscellaneous items on every trip which takes another 30mins-1hr. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | interesting stuff out of testing jfw's keksum on mac at any rate; fwiw I tested it on centos 6 and didn't have any trouble at all (tests were fine too). | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Dec-2019#1012961 – this or even the Hong Kong version would still be an improvement over current situation really. | [19:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-13 19:15:43 lobbes: In addition, I know some other folks that I used to work with at my current job that were able to snag 100\% remote work doing similar things, so that is another path in the back of my mind. | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what does it take to switch to remote work? | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: since you had some interest in labels | [19:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 18:16:08 diana_coman: well, the label is either a burden or a recognition, depending on where you actually are. | [19:33] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: to switch to full remote would require switching to another employer, the Hong Kong jobs could be done via current employer | [21:10] |
| lobbes: | as for what it would take beyond that, I'd need to do some further research | [21:11] |
#ossasepia Logs for 12 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4hr of saltmines and did a trip to town where I got a multimeter, a mosquito net, groceries for the week, and opened a local bank account (I have to return to town on Friday though to pick up the debit card, I will adjust my schedule tomorrow morning.) I did 1hr 45mins of Spanish study tonight as well. | [00:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for next week's plan, list separately all those things that end up eating your days; it's getting rather tedious to keep searching in there for something other than saltmines, running around and various others really. | [03:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: any more spinning? | [08:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes a bit, but significantly less than the previous day i believe. | [08:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012261 <– My understanding now is that Mateiu is the 'narcissist' and he is butthurt about 'discovering hypocrisy' of his father. He imagines it hypocritical for his father to write he was awed by his friend's "despising social discipline" years ago while today reprimanding his son for the ~same behavior. But I am still unclear as to why 'narcissist' is in quotes. My | [12:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 12:50:21 diana_coman: as to the last sentence, think of who in there would "discover hypocrisy" and then be all butthurt about it. | [12:32] |
| whaack: | guess (influenced from tlp dabbling) is some would characterize the 'despising social discipline' behavior as narcissism, but narcissism is something deeper/different. | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: just pay more attention to word-changes, that's all; it's …surprising and in this context boring is better really; (you did once before too). | [13:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, how is he a narcissist if he cares that much about… his father's opinion of him rather than, you know, about himself? | [13:30] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks, will pay more attention. | [13:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Let me see if I get this straight. The larger point is that those who act as though they don't care what others think are going to be angry when they see what they consider to be hypocrisy of their idols. Since despite their pretense they are actually trying to live to be [what they imagine / is a convenient interpretation of] the person their idols would like to have a beer with. Their 'discovering hypocrisy' is them | [13:49] |
| whaack: | realizing they are not living up to be that person. | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well yes, it's the telltale sign of the whole pretense. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | and the "inevitable", "who could have predicted" result of it, too. | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you have all the computer components now? | [15:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No I am still waiting for the parts to ship. The delay is because the RAM needed to be ordered from pcgamingcr's supplier. Their rep gave me the excuse that the order from the supplier is taking extra time since I ordered around black friday. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | sucks; ok. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what exactly are you going to read though for 4 hours on this?? | [15:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was going to look for articles of people explaining their process of having put together a computer. And then I was going to figure out what I need to do to get my os (centos 6) installed with my hardware. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | tbh if it's worth spending 4 hours reading, then it's by the same logic worth spending another half hour summarizing and publishing it; but I have a rather hard time imagining what you get out of just-theory-reading, it's a practical skill after all. | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | isn't that best done when you can already …do it though? I mean what, you look at them now and then by the time you finally get the parts you forgot anyway most of it? | [15:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes it makes sense to move that until the parts are in my possession. I can update my schedule and replace today's task with going over trinque's published sources. (Tomorrow's will be replaced with going to town again to pick up my debit card.) | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | for that matter in general, why so carefully-theoretic-only about all of it really; sure, theory is fine and useful but only if put to practice too. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yes and moreover *standing up* trinque's bot too; read the code, annotate it, but ALSO stand it up after that, what | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | it's not some artefact to worship-but-not-touch, what. | [15:25] |
| whaack: | aha | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | so update those tasks and do something with that bot too; it'll make for more interesting review too, anyway. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay will do. | [15:26] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I am ready when you are | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: cool; do you have something more concrete/detailed in mind re http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012295 ? | [16:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 20:01:05 lobbes: diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | you've been around for a lot of time but most of it you've been so elusive that overall there's surprisingly little all that clear from you, you know? | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | hm, yeah I know what you mean on the surprisingly little | [16:15] |
| lobbes: | well, I think I'd benefit from some kind of structure, but I am not exactly clear on how much. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | heh, 3.5m wide and 5.95 recurring tall; that's not something to know exactly clear upfront, lolz. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: to start from somewhere though – what do you want from here? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | as overall result I mean. | [16:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I think I could benefit from a sort of sounding board; the issue I keep having is thinking I'm on the right track when I'm not | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | how/when do you find out you "are not" though? | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | when I communicate what I'm doing I suppose | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | and others with experience weigh in | [16:19] |
| lobbes: | perhaps I just need some plan that I stick to that keeps me from ceasing this communication like I tend to do | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | hm, that you were supposedly addressing (and that's how this here took a break iirc) simply by publishing/talking more though; it doesn't seem to have worked/been enough; so how about you leave off for a minute the focus on "what do I need" and tell me where you want to get too. | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | to*. | [16:22] |
| lobbes: | okay. /me takes a second to think | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | take your time. | [16:23] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I think where I ultimately want to get to is a situation where I have greater ownership over my own life. Right now, I really don't. I've made some steps, but still, I am a slave to the saltmines, I have epsilon working capital, and I also cannot code really | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | that sounds more useful already. | [16:28] |
| lobbes: | tmsr has given me many tools with which to help me towards that, but I am still fumbling on how to use many of the tools effectually it seems | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: so how did this come about really? ~all the context I have on you is along the lines of "he's been stuck for years on the comfy path to boiled-frog, snapped out of it at close-to-last-moment, didn't have much support/advice/something to lean on to extricate self" | [16:31] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: that context summary is pretty accurate. I have snapped out of it, but now am in a state of "wut do next?" | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | re fumbling, it's quite possibly because of the actual depth of those tools – there's much more to them than it seems and if you have no idea, it's not quite working, yes; it reminds me of my rather-interesting-learning-to-ski moment but sadly it's Romanian only lol. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | tldr: I had no idea but went willingly with friends who promised to "teach me"; they taught me how to put the equipment on and then pretty much shoved me down the slope, lolz; at the end of the day, down a black slope too; I…survived. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, back to you lobbes, mind if I ask you a whole bunch of questions? | [16:36] |
| lobbes: | lol, now I wish I could read Romanian. Sounds like a good tale | [16:37] |
| lobbes: | (well I wished I could read it before, but you know what I mean) | [16:37] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: fire away | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what did you study for all-that-debt anyway? | [16:38] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I started in computer science, but switched after about a semester to business management. While I did (and do) have an interest in business, I wagered it was a quicker/easier path to many Inca-salary-pellets | [16:40] |
| lobbes: | It was, too. I exam-took my way through the whole thing | [16:40] |
| lobbes: | much like I did for public school before | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | well, that clarifies the "can't code" and possibly a whole lot of the "can't quite use those tools properly", you know? | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: absolutely. | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | I was just smart enough to be very stupid | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | so you piled some learning-debt on top of the money-debt, after which you went ahead and found someone to also eat up those inca-salary-pellets? | [16:41] |
| lobbes: | yes, that is correct. Which I let happen for about 8 years; did not save any money during this time (save for my ~1.7 btc) | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | shakes head. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: now I wonder just where are you exactly otherwise, hm. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | what did you learn from that business management? | [16:44] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: a lot of useless nonsense for the most part, though I enjoyed statistics and a few others | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what work did you do? | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | and what "few others"? be more precise please, it's quite hard to pin anything down as it is. | [16:46] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I also liked calculus, accounting, and my economics classes. There were so many mandatory pantsuit ones though ("environmental responsibility" etc) that I checked out a bit | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw you do seem to like very-neatly-and-clearly-defined-sorted-categorised-stuff, yes. | [16:48] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: for work, I started out doing ETL work, migrating business data into the backend of SAP ERP. It was a consulting firm | [16:48] |
| lobbes: | I cut my teeth on SQL at that job, but that's really the only language I was exposed to | [16:49] |
| lobbes: | I stayed in that line of work for about 6 years until I got my current gig as an "excel jocky" (which I've been doing for about 3 yrs) | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | does that pay better or why the switch? | [16:50] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: pay is better, yes (even though I'm doing much easier work; that's charlotte for you though) | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | tbh from my (very limited, granted) experience with "jobs", the more mind-numbing it is, the better paid, at least up to some ceiling ie within a certain context, yes. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: thing is, it still seems like it's eating the best part of your time&energy; how much time do you actually have left anyway? | [16:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: time left each week after saltmines? probably about 20-30 hours depending on errands and such | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | hm, they don't… show for real so far, something's weird there. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | 20-30 hours per week is quite a lot really so either it's not really that or you don't make very good use of them. | [16:56] |
| lobbes: | it may be a bit of both of those.. I also am noticing I have a poor grasp on the time I spend each day into each activity | [16:57] |
| lobbes: | and a poor recollection on what I spent in time in the past | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | well, usually that works well only if actually measured; if you rely solely on memory, it will always lie to you, there's no way around that. | [16:58] |
| lobbes: | it is true that I have not been measuring my time spent | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you had on your blog all sorts of plans, for escape and some re selling that house and so on; there's a. no follow up on those so – where are they? b. unclear if you made them because "gotta make a plan" / "wtf to do???" or because "I actually want to do this" | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | so at b: which of those is it? | [17:01] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill) | [17:04] |
| lobbes: | it seems I ought to resolve those things first before I make any jumps | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | hm; did you study in your home town? I gathered you did move a bit about the US but not exactly when/why/how far; mind going through that? (there's a point to it). | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | if anything though, understand that there isn't really every any "ready" for anything as in ticking a list of stuff off upfront and that list being also actually useful; it's just not how it works | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | ever* not every, ffs. | [17:08] |
| lobbes: | I started out in a small town in the Cod; went to a community college there for first two years of school. Then moved to the western half of the state to go to a 'state school' for last two years. | [17:10] |
| lobbes: | After graduation I couldn't find any work around the area, but I had a buddy out in northern Ohio who was able to get my foot in the door at that consulting firm doing the ETL work. | [17:10] |
| lobbes: | moved out there and stayed for 6 years; kinda hit the ceiling in that area and heard the salaries were higher in Charlotte NC, so I picked up and moved there | [17:11] |
| lobbes: | but each time I moved, I had something 'lined up' first | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did you live any time outside the US? | [17:12] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: no not at all. I did visit the Dominican Republic for a week (got to see the 'real' bit because I was with Dominicans, so it was a good experience), but that is the only time I've even left the US | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | has brushed up on US map. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: of all the things going on around tmsr, what appeals to you the most anyway? and really appeals, not the "oh, it would be so NICE if I did this" | [17:18] |
| lobbes: | hm, I'ma think a second on this one too | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: add to the thinking: how would you define/quantify "I want" ? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | so there's at least some more to think of, lol; take your time. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: thank you btw for all that info; I can certainly see why/how you make an excellent guide to a place, seriously. | [17:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: what appeals most, I think that what keeps me coming back is the fact that I have never in my life been able to articulate/work through my own thoughts as well as I can after spending these years interacting with actual humans. I don't know of any other place on the planet that helps me do this to same magnitude | [17:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It is a pleasure. Lots of little nuggests piled up in the collection while evaluating how much of the place we just might be able to capture. | [17:29] |
| lobbes: | It is the process itself that appeals to me most, I think. There's this trilema I can't find right now that has that Newman quote "It is the education which gives a man a clear, conscious view of their own opinions and judgements… It teaches him to see things as they are, to go right to the point, to disentangle a skein of thought to detect what is sophistical and to discard what is irrelevant." | [17:30] |
| lobbes: | My actual schooling did not do this for me, but tmsr does and has | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: I think that's quite it – you pay a lot of attention to a lot of things, basically documentation at its best, or I don't even know how to better put it; I'd guess it has to do with the journalism side but since I'm not all that knowledgeable on that, I can't fully tell. | [17:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: quantifying wants: can you do that? Wants are always changing | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you are looking for john henry newman | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: yes, you can and no, fundamental ones do not change that easily really. | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | but look above, you said you wanted to sell the house and to travel | [17:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:04:09 lobbes: diana_coman: well I do want to sell my house, and I do want to travel. However, I realized that even if I hop the fence I'm still faced with the "wut do now?" question, and the problem of my being poor (both in capital and skill) | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | I doubt you actually want it atm though; you'd certainly like to, yes; but not want to. | [17:35] |
| diana_coman: | poor English even gives a clue there I suppose, in that a "want" is essentially a deficiency/lack/state of need, isn't it? | [17:37] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I see what you mean re: fundamental wants not changing easily | [17:39] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I literally just looked up etymology of "want" and that is exactly what I saw "deficiency, insufficiency" | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, the way to quantify a want is simply by what you are *truly willing to lose/give up* in order to fulfil that "want"; it's always like that, defined by the negatives. | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | well, *you* are the native speaker, what. | [17:41] |
| lobbes: | ah that negative space again | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | all sorts of negatives but yes. | [17:41] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: do you know how much English I've learned from Trilema though? :P | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; no, I don't; how much? (and anyway, trilema's not mine :P ) | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I know not yours, but I mean, non-native speakers are always schooling me in English | [17:42] |
| jfw: | re 'want', I recall learning this heavier meaning only later, as in early school I was taught about 'wants vs. needs' with 'wants' being more the 'would like to haves' | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | poor US schooling, you know | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: eh, stop blaming others/the environment/the year/the phases of the moon, will you? you are not 15 anymore. | [17:43] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: you are right. I will cease that behavior | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, and how did you learn that heavier meaning anyway? | [17:43] |
| lobbes: | it is on me | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: out of the work/tasks/directions around here though, what interests you? I get it that conversation and general interaction with actual people is (naturally!) what you want and like most, sure; anything other though that speaks to your interest(s) more seriously? | [17:45] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: not sure specifically, I had heard the usage perhaps in older sounding text, looked it up at some point | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, older sounding text; I can see what you mean; and gah, I'll feel 83 again. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | if speaking well makes you feel old, I can't help there :P | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahahah; and I thought you had some wrecked schedule to set back on track :P | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | (but no, it wasn't a request for help at all; simply a statement of a fact.) | [17:48] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I do, though keeping up was part of it. | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh; you're always welcome of course. | [17:52] |
| jfw: | :) | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: did I lose you somewhere? | [17:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: nah I'm here. processing | [17:55] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: The tmsr os work interests me because I think it could help me improve my overall computer literacy. Plus I think the dorion/jfw combo has some chance of bringing in money (the republic is indeed lacking profit centers). I would like to help out in that aim in some capacity | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | so always-very-rational-apparently, you know? | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | plus, I am interested in continuing improving my current things (the auctionbot, mp-wp bot) | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: what do you mean? Isn't being rational a good thing? | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, I suppose dorion_road would be rather happy to hear there's one man more rather than less; and the project certainly has both a huge need for people and a lot of potential, yes. | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: heh, it's … not the only thing, it never can be, that's all. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what do you make in the end of the lordship and castle thing anyway? | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | (if you prefer re rational, there's always that "too much of a good thing".) | [18:02] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: hm, idk if I fully grok your rational point yet (but I will ponder it in parallel) | [18:03] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: re: lordship castle thing, can you expound a bit? | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: here, to help you re that rational point; note the apparently in there too. | [18:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-18 14:06:12 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Sep-2019#1002885 – because you were going at it on *one leg only*; in short, you knew what you needed to do but you didn't care to do it and both those things matter, you can't just cut one out and pretend that the other takes over both functions. | [18:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-12 17:57:02 diana_coman: so always-very-rational-apparently, you know? | [18:04] |
| lobbes: | reading thread | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: you went this year back and forth through "I'd rather give up lordship"/ "no, I wouldn't"; "I'm better off as a knight" / "ugh, I like being a lord"; "I have/will make a castle since I'm a lord"/"wouldn't quite ask for a deed for it, hmmm"; what do you reckon now exactly, regardless of labels? | [18:07] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: ah now I gotcha. Yes, I was quite concerned about all that until MP underlined the turns concept for me and I re-read his article | [18:14] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-09-25 mircea_popescu: it'll benefit the nooblets immensely if they seriously spend some time groking the "turn" thing. there's a time for everything ; and for most things that time isn't NOW. | [18:14] |
| lobbes: | so now I'm just focusing on improving; not trying to care about labels | [18:14] |
| lobbes: | because the label is just a pointer to someone who does things anyway | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | well, the label is either a burden or a recognition, depending on where you actually are. | [18:16] |
| lobbes: | makes sense | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | has literally told a uni prof "your saying that I'm a professor now does NOT make me a professor!!" | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | he was shocked, lol. | [18:16] |
| lobbes: | lol, I bet | [18:17] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: brb need to answer a saltmine call | [18:18] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: all right, ping when you're back. | [18:18] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: okay, I'm back | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: wb; anyways, I think I got at least a better picture of you after all this, so here's to some clarity. | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: listen, there's also that old promised series – whatever happened to that? | [18:27] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-14 05:05:52 diana_coman: lobbes: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2019/09/the-next-phases-of-escape/?b=wasting&e=#select – fwiw, it's very aptly put but also very sinful; one of those things for which you'll really have to do penance if you haven't done it already. | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | 3 months, look at that. | [18:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: you got me on that one | [18:27] |
| lobbes: | ahem :P | [18:27] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I was trying to focus 100\% on getting the mpwpbot out, but now I have time so I'll make a plan to get that article written | [18:29] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: there's no such thing, no. | [18:29] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: listen, if you want on, I'm willing to try and help you; I gather you are fine with that pledge because you will need it, yes; and it will take some closer reporting & follow up by the looks of it. | [18:32] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: yeah, this is a point on the putting off the article. There really isn't such a thing as '100\% focus' on anything | [18:33] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: I would be honored, and if you are willing to help then I am willing to learn (also willing to take pledge) | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: well, for starters the 100\% on ONE thing is more of a luxury rather than anything and a. it's not all that productive really b. rather rare in practice. | [18:35] |
| lobbes: | this is true | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: all right; then start by writing out your plan for next week on yh by this Sunday; feel free to write some review of your time in tmsr so far too, it will be rather instructive I'd think; for next week you certainly have at the very least 1. a penance article of those long-ago-promised 2. concrete plan re figuring out the ebuilds; with time & deadline too, please; and start actually measuring your time at least for starters, … | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | … to figure out what is going on for real as opposed to what seems to be going on. | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: moving forwards, it would seem to me that atm you are rather staying where you are; and as such, you should then at least give some thought to actually making the most of that; so I'd expect some of that to show in your plans – if not for next week, then for the week after. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | as to remedial/learning-debt-paying, that should get some place at some point too, | [18:39] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: any questions there? or anything else? | [18:40] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: understood, and I will do so. I'll probably spend time re-reading our convo and linked threads/etc. If I have further questions I will let you know | [18:41] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: and thank you again for this help, I do appreciate it | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: cool; and you're welcome. | [18:41] |
| jfw: | I think I'm hearing a decision there among the "I will if you will"s so congrats both & welcome aboard lobbes! | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, is it not clear? hm, lobbes, is there something unclear? | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | ty jfw! | [18:51] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: all clear on my end | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: cool then. | [18:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did ~2hrs of Spanish study, did an unexpected bit of saltmines (~30min), finished a rough draft of the rereading article ~4h, and got trinque's irc ping-pong bot connected ~4h. There was a chunk of time I burned trying to set up keccak on my local machine so that I could press the vpatches correctly. I got stuck on setting up gprbuild. I think I may try to use jfw's keksum, but if that doesn't work I don' | [23:36] |
| whaack: | t know it's worth figuring out what's wrong on my osx 10.9 as I should have my new computer anyways soon. Reading through trinque's code and playing around with it, I see there are a few topics I need to go over: CLOS, threading with CL and slime, and CL's exception handling tool/restarts. | [23:36] |
| whaack: | I believe I was more focused today. I had some time where I wasn't working though: an interruption for ~40 mins when a surfpal stopped by, and I played guitar for another ~20 mins at sunset. | [23:47] |
#ossasepia Logs for 11 Dec 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: and…why? | [03:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is painful to type the reason out. Essentially I let the worries of whether or not I will continue to see my lady from Sunday occupy my headspace. | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why worries to start with? ie want to see her, call her/go, wtf. | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | and good that it's painful because seriously, worrying about, gah. | [10:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't want to start filling the channel with the specifics of this, lol. but i'll say she ended her relationship with someone a few days prior to meeting and seems beat up about it. I find it best to give it some time before calling her and trying to go see her. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | if only stupidity was more painful while indulging in it than when admitting it after the fact. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you "find it best" then you don't "worry"; and no, I'd rather not fill the channel with any of this either but that starts with not wasting time "worrying". | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | every time you start worrying about anything, do me a favour and tell yourself you're being an idiot. | [10:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I knew immediately as I started worrying I was being an idiot. I did not have a good method to stop it. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the best method to stop it is to DO something and preferably something difficult enough to not leave much space for idles worries. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: in fairness, an even better solution is to have something more serious to be worried about at least, if you must, there is that too. | [10:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay. I did try to keep myself busy, with saltmines work, which i guess is not important/difficult enough to take away my distracting thoughts. | [10:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: One concern is i wouldn't want to do anything I find important while I am distracted. I guess I need to find something difficult that is not too important. Like some manual labor house repair. | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | the point is to do something where you can't *afford* to be distracted. | [10:33] |
| diana_coman: | but myeah, you always leave for yourself pleeeenty of slack because why not, all the time in the world and pura vida and all that. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | dunno, set yourself some idiocy tax : one satoshi per minute of "worry" and see for how long you can afford it, lolz. | [10:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol send an address | [10:39] |
| whaack: | one satoshi a minute though.. that allows for a lot of worrying | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, this sort of thing has to be punishment rather than tax. | [10:42] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Nov-2019#1009447 << did so when suggested. I've read this one before. did not rem the author then. Depressing and instructive come to mind abt the story. | [13:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 13:49:23 diana_coman: shrysr: possibly for you too ^ | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | how's it going, shrysr ? | [13:10] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012520 << I read the logs. buncha things going on atm. | [13:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 20:36:33 jfw: shrysr: you still tuned in here? How's that learning and search for new job going? You still on track to resurface after Christmas? | [13:10] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: hallo. lol. well.. its going on | [13:12] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: mind giving an update as to where you are with the job hunt/change? or would you rather wait until after Christmas? | [13:16] |
| RubenSomsen: | whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe. | [13:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 10:22:55 whaack: RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there. | [13:21] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: I was gonna wait. but the short of it is that – got laid off with strong reccomendations fwiw, lmao. secured a remote DS project and did some ML :) .. just delivered it. Hopefully there is more from that. shifted to vancouver | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: so you vouch for something based, essentially, on "the majority agrees (for now) it's so" ? | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: oh hey, not bad at all; and why wait, anyway? | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: even "what I perceive as majority" really. | [13:25] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012405 <<These were very helpful. One thing that caught my attention was the idea of a new world order where the poor won't receive a free handout and will have to find a way to be useful to the rich. Is that an idea with a lot of support here? | [13:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 12:09:45 diana_coman: RubenSomsen: here, let me help you just a bit: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/ http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/ http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/ … | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: for sure; I suppose you might want to read the take on universal franchise + consensus too, speaking of "majority consensus" | [13:28] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: No UTXO is secure if the majority does not agree. Tomorrow the majority can decide you can no longer spend your coins. Unlikely of course, but this is part of Bitcoin, like it or not. | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: the point is: there's no "secure" based on "majority agrees"; fuck "majority" with a sharp stick. | [13:29] |
| RubenSomsen: | Your coins are only worth something if others value it. So the opinion of others matters. Bitcoin can be whatever you want it to be, but if nobody else agrees with you, your coins will not have value. | [13:30] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: From my experience 'the majority' that use segwit have their bitcoin client on auto-update to whatever the mods on /r/bitcoin or the owners of some github repo push out. From my experience if you probe a 'segwit user' with questions about segwit you'll quickly find they have absolutely no idea what segwit is about. | [13:30] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: no, not generally like that; people are not just numbers, you know? ie my bitcoins are worth something if *those I care to trade with* value them; not if "others" in general value it, fuck them. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | I care exactly 0 if the general "other" values my bitcoin (or my looks for that matter or my anything). | [13:31] |
| RubenSomsen: | whaack: I agree with you that that is not a good thing. People should not follow blindly, they should make informed decisions. | [13:31] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012551 << are all nodes equal ? or do certain nodes owned by certain people carry more importance ? | [13:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:21:25 RubenSomsen: whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | the important divide there is really that – people are not just interchangeable, equal, the same, how you want to call it. | [13:32] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: you are free to value whatever you want, but the utility of a coin that nobody wants is lower. To many people, me included, utility matters. | [13:33] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012555 << diana_coman: yea. I guess it is what it is and was not unpleasant, and funny in hindsight – but turning out to be good so far. job hunt is obv on. I might have another gig shaping up. gotta see. | [13:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:24:23 diana_coman: shrysr: oh hey, not bad at all; and why wait, anyway? | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: note I did not say "nobody", that's your addition; do you see the difference ? | [13:34] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: I was merely drawing an extreme to make a point. Replace "nobody" by "a subset" and the argument still holds. | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: I don't know much about your background to put this in a way that speaks more easily to you but no, the argument does not hold like that, ever; there is no power in just numbers (hey, they are MANY and therefore IMPORTANT). | [13:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: The big lesson I took from the altcoin dramas 2012-present is that it takes folk that already have money to decide what gets value for their wanting it. | [13:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: Fellow who wrote this piece has since disappeared into the not tracked wastes it seems, but relevant http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ | [13:38] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: Perhaps you mean to say that many people can value something unimportant? I would agree with that. Over time these people will go broke and become unimportant themselves. | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: so how's Vancouver? | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: I mean to say that what many people and moreover what generic, undistinguishable (ie yes, unimportant) people hallucinate that they value does *not matter* really. | [13:41] |
| RubenSomsen: | OK, yes, I guess what I said sounded like something has value because many people value it. That would definitely be incorrect circular reasoning. | [13:43] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: yes but do you see the link with your earlier statement re vouching for segwit ? | [13:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:21:25 RubenSomsen: whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012399 <<Soft forks are not safe when they are only enforced by miners. You need the vast majority of nodes to enforce them as well. I would not have vouched for segwit if that wasn't the case. I do take the general point that old UTXOs are more safe. | [13:45] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: lmao again. its like a breath of actual air. Seeing a McDonalds after 1+ years had me grinning like an idiot for some inexplicable reason. Walking distance to a library.. mass fuckinnn transit! I drove down here from my retirement village in alberta. Through the freakin mountains in the winter… in a car i severely underestimated as it turned out.. that was both terrifying and beautiful. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Dec-2019#1012578 – money does flow a certain way, yes; but this doesn't mean that those people were really important to start with, they were just as inconsequential in the beginning really; think of it this way: if you give tomorrow a fortune to a pig, does that make the pig's values important all of a sudden, you reckon? | [13:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-11 13:40:45 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: Perhaps you mean to say that many people can value something unimportant? I would agree with that. Over time these people will go broke and become unimportant themselves. | [13:48] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: I'm not entirely sure what your view on segwit is. Do you want to hold non-segwit UTXOs only? Do you only want coins that don't have a history that involves a segwit output? Do you only follow a hard fork that does not contain segwit such as BCH? | [13:49] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: in a nutshell, I fully ignore segwit. | [13:49] |
| RubenSomsen: | OK, so the first then I guess. You can't fully ignore it because coins you receive may have a history with segwit. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | and I can't say I see any downside to this either, only positives really. | [13:50] |
| RubenSomsen: | There are some downsides such as higher fees and less fungibility, but I take your point that non-segwit outputs are more widely recognized by both old and new nodes. | [13:51] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: uhm, how do you reckon I can't ignore it? you know, I also ignore a WHOLE lot of other equally "majority use" stuff and with the same sort of happy benefits (eg https! javascript! windows!) | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: heh, so why not pics and blog about it? | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: but honestly, do yourself a favour and don't eat that pressed cardboard they sell as food at mcdonalds, ffs. | [13:53] |
| RubenSomsen: | You can of course ignore it, but what I meant is some of your coin history will be "tainted" by segwit, which is theoretically less secure if you think those are anyone-can-spend outputs. | [13:53] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: From my understanding to someone that ignores segwit that question translates to: would you be okay with receiving coins from an anyone-can-spend address? The coins should be safe in their new home, so why not? Maybe you will want more confirmations since anyone could replace the txn sent to you with a txn w/ a higher free for the miners. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: for one thing I don't tend to receive btc just from anyone so there is that double layer of ignoring (ie I ignore also people-on-segwit really, not just segwit, I suppose). | [13:54] |
| RubenSomsen: | whaack: Yes, I agree with that | [13:54] |
| RubenSomsen: | I'd say the fact that you can ignore segwit is even an integral part of it | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: how do you mean? | [13:56] |
| diana_coman: | but at any rate: if something can be fully ignored -> it does *not* do anything so ….what exactly is there to even talk about? | [13:56] |
| RubenSomsen: | It's opt-in, nobody has to use it, nobody gets hurt by those who do use it. This is how segwit and non-segwit users can coexist. | [13:57] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: I doubt that part with "nobody gets hurt" really; they do, namely the naive and the noobs and so on; just like they have been doing with in all other scams etc; there's plenty history of this "nobody gets hurt" except… | [13:58] |
| diana_coman: | but it's true, it's not on my back as it were, sure. | [13:58] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: lmao exactly. the deceitful authors needed to create a scam while making sure they didn't poke the lions | [13:59] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well, people are free to make bad decisions. But personally I don't think segwit is a bad decision (assuming people did their homework and know what they're signing up for, blind faith is not good) | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | but no, the fact that it can't take over (that's what you are saying there with "can coexist") is not "part of segwit", no. | [13:59] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: why not make yourself your own blog and write there why exactly you think segwit is a good decision, anyway? | [14:00] |
| BingoBoingo: | remembers Gavin proposing segwit as a "this is how the protocol works now, sigs will be cleaved off of all transactions" but very quickly that proposal was buried and replaced with the current thing where it only damages those opting in to it. | [14:01] |
| diana_coman: | if you followed the links in those articles you read around here, you might have noticed that there are plenty of *relevant* comments AND links to pretty much all the articles around; it's neither by chance this, nor something to discard, quite the opposite. | [14:01] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well I did do a video on the subject of consensus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk2MTzSkQ5E | [14:02] |
| RubenSomsen: | It would probably clarify a lot of my views and I'd be curious if there are any parts you strongly disagree with | [14:03] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: people around here can read and that's more than 10 times faster than watching videos so ..uhm, thank you but no; do you have a transcript? | [14:03] |
| diana_coman: | seriously now, writing is the superior format from ~all points of view. | [14:04] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: Sorry, no. I absorb information better by audio myself (2x speed of course), but I understand that IRC self selects for people who prefer reading. | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: would you mind terribly if I ask you how old you are? | [14:05] |
| RubenSomsen: | 34 | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, not even that big gap, I'm 38. | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: it's not really that irc self-selects, it's the other way around ie we are on irc because text is better. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | I get the absorb (if you mean with those readers that double/triple the speed) but you lose on interaction and linking with others. | [14:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | lives in a place where the accents mean I can lose up to 60\% of what the local derps are saying in the worst case (poor folk who rarely leave their barrio, self-study English speakers, etc). | [14:08] |
| RubenSomsen: | I think both formats are valuable. Anyway, the video is only 12 min if you go at 2x speed. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: both formats have *their uses*, sure, nobody denies that. | [14:08] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well this is anecdotal, but Bryan Bishop writes up all the Bitcoin conference talks, and I always find it interesting how between my friends and colleagues some people strongly prefer the video over the transcript or vice versa | [14:09] |
| asciilifeform: | bishop << lol, kanzure ?! confessed enemy agent | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: just for a tiny thing: say I want to reference one specific sentence (or even just a part of it!) from your audio there; how exactly do I reference it precisely? while with text, look here: http://trilema.com/2016/the-v-manual-genesis/?b=absolutely&e=#select | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | so yes, it might be "only 24 minutes" but what I get for spending those 24 minutes that way is significantly less than what I get for spending 24 minutes reading a properly written text, that's the rub (and what you get out of it is similary less, too). | [14:11] |
| RubenSomsen: | I don't think people are wired in the same way. My recollection and memorization is much better from audio, and I can stay more focused. Others seem to be the opposite. | [14:13] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: eh, go easy on him, he's in the thick of it there. | [14:13] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: right, but prolly oughta link : | [14:13] |
| asciilifeform: | !q seen-anywhere kanzure | [14:13] |
| snsabot: | kanzure last seen in #trilema on 2018-06-16 18:41:55: oh, i don't believe in particle acceleration | [14:13] |
| RubenSomsen: | You guys know him? | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: brain is quite a malleable thing, much more than most imagine; ie habits can easily mean you are currently better with one form than with another but that doesn't mean it is to your advantage overall to keep with it, nor that you "can't the other because differently wired" . | [14:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: Kanzure hung around here a bit. You'll find many member of the "core" and other crowds have had encounters with the crowd here. | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, you can always simply have a software read the text to you, no? | [14:16] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well I do a lot of reading as well, but perhaps you are right that given equal time on both, reading is superior | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: ie why produce video if you need to *listen*, it doesn't quite follow anyway. | [14:16] |
| RubenSomsen: | Robotic text to speech doesn't keep my brain engaged. Primitive perhaps, but true. | [14:17] |
| asciilifeform: | RubenSomsen: fella was friend of an old meatspace friend of mine. was a kind of esr-style lottery winner, as teenager; developed severe delusions of grandeur 'oh hey lemme make a nanotech cad despite knowing 0' and just as the money ran dry, was offered job as a professional bamboozler / bitcoin disinfo artist, by the reich. and afaik is what he does to this day. | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | and you'd be surprised how many are known around here though possibly not quite in the way you expect, lol. | [14:17] |
| diana_coman: | ah, it's the abstract part that is less practiced, I see. | [14:18] |
| RubenSomsen: | If I had to self-diagnose, I think school made me hate reading and the default reaction is that my brain starts to wander. I do well with skimming, but if I have to read sentence-by-sentence, I need to be really motivated and interested in the content first in order to stay focused. | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | you do realise though that what this "audio but NOT text to speech" means is precisely *not* differently wired. | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: what did the school do so horribly re reading? | [14:21] |
| RubenSomsen: | Nothing special, I was just a difficult kid who passively resented the fact that he had to learn stuff for which he did not understand the purpose. | [14:22] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: I was too tensed overall and abt driving down to stop to take in the sights. first 12 hr drive in winter. Prolly felt good to conquer it head on. I intend to see some of those places again tho. | [14:24] |
| diana_coman: | well, now as an adult it might be worth perhaps revisiting the various acquired habits and deciding to keep/not keep and develop if needed what works best rather than what you happened to end up with; just saying here, not like I stand to gain anything by it either way. | [14:26] |
| RubenSomsen: | Of course, I'm always looking to self-improve. | [14:27] |
| RubenSomsen: | Specific to this I'm doing meditation to better control/notice when my mind wanders. | [14:28] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: well, writing and reading more would possibly be more straightforward really, especially if you do it around people who actively and routinely give feedback, as it happens here. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: btw re school, what they did wrong from what you say is precisely that they let you get away with that "passively resented"; here something for ref: http://trilema.com/2014/pro-idiotas-which-obviously-means-people-who-have-ideas-ie-idiots/ | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: why not write anything on your blog about all those things that went on, anyway? even "hey, I'm in Vancouver, hoooray!" or something ("I'm alive" works too, lol) | [15:09] |
| jfw: | I emerge (beholding the wreckage of my schedule). Got 257 photos winnowed down to 187, of which 31 out so far. I should be able to push the remainder out faster with that prep done | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | hah, I was just admiring your photos (and how the bar overlaps some of them, too). | [16:39] |
| jfw: | From yesterday's revised deadlines I missed my genesis regrinds and only finished the rest by cutting into sleep. | [16:40] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the sidebar? could zoom or resize window I guess, the theme has it absolute-positioned sadly | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | poor sleep. | [16:41] |
| jfw: | any magic number I pick for photo size will get cut off at some window size afaik | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, right you are, I had it on some zoom, right. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | yes, you are right. | [16:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: You may want to do something to your footer to kill the "Powered by WordPress" link to heathens | [16:49] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: right you are, and I suppose a vpatch would be ideal but can just fix locally for now; I've been more or less doing your core vs. theme maintenance split | [16:54] |
#ossasepia Logs for 10 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I logged 11h of saltmines today. As of now I plan to get in a few extra hours of saltmines this week, and then use those hours to work fewer hours next week. | [00:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: on the bright side, good for looking ahead; on the murky side, if saltmines are indeed the single most important thing to you, then you are screwed already. | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: good to hear all went well; looking forward to the article too! | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: get yourself all the sources that trinque published and make a plan to chew through them; they are mainly lisp too and you wanted that so hopefully you won't take ages on it either. | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | oh hey, welcome RubenSomsen | [06:21] |
| RubenSomsen: | Looks like my patience has proven fruitful, hello | [06:22] |
| diana_coman: | has it? how's that? | [06:22] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: ^ | [06:24] |
| RubenSomsen: | The rabbit hole I dove in has reacted to my presence | [06:24] |
| diana_coman: | lolz; do you take *me* for a rabbit hole? | [06:25] |
| RubenSomsen: | Trilema was the rabbit hole, and yes, in a sense you are part of it, I believe | [06:26] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: the point is that holes don't ever react, no; it's always and only people that might *act*; if you just wait until someone taps you on the shoulder, you might end up waiting for ever, you know? | [06:26] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I do this thing on occasion, inviting people to talk but I might be rather …rare in this. | [06:27] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: anyways; so what did those friends say that got you to have a look in the first place? | [06:28] |
| RubenSomsen: | They were cryptic, it was not entirely clear to me, which is perhaps why I got curious | [06:28] |
| diana_coman: | btw, TMSR is the thing I'm part of; it does/did start with Trilema but it's not quite ~same thing. | [06:29] |
| RubenSomsen: | They're Bitcoin developers, cypherpunks | [06:29] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: oh huh, where do those cypherpunks hang around those days anyway? | [06:29] |
| diana_coman: | (and do they run away if I go and say hi?) | [06:29] |
| RubenSomsen: | I suppose you can find them in #bitcoin-wizards | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | searches for some old photo where she had blue fingernails and all that. | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: are you a cypherpunk too? | [06:30] |
| RubenSomsen: | I try not to carry too many labels, but I suppose it fits | [06:30] |
| diana_coman: | eh, labels are stuck by others, what are they to you otherwise. | [06:31] |
| RubenSomsen: | Well, they become part of your ego, and that leads to attachment | [06:32] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: what are you working on those days? do you publish anything somewhere I can have a look at? (if you don't mind me looking at it…) | [06:32] |
| diana_coman: | not by default, no; the way I see it, labels are simply …offered as potential clues; you have a look at them and may choose /decide if you care at all, anyway | [06:33] |
| RubenSomsen: | https://twitter.com/SomsenRuben/status/1145738783192600576 | [06:33] |
| diana_coman: | how would that even work if *all* labels were necessarily part of your ego, good god, it'd be all contradictions in there, lolz. | [06:33] |
| RubenSomsen: | and more recently this, I suppose: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017287.html | [06:33] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [06:34] |
| RubenSomsen: | I think the ego easily adopts labels. And I suppose that's fine, but it becomes really hard to let go when the label no longer serves you. | [06:35] |
| RubenSomsen: | It manifests in tribalism, and you become willing to forego logic for the sake of it. I guess that's the part that bothers me. | [06:36] |
| diana_coman: | that might fit you, if you say so, but it's not a universal nor a mandatory way-it-works. | [06:36] |
| diana_coman: | hm, RubenSomsen did you stumble on trilema.com on any of the several articles touching on identity and how it works? | [06:38] |
| RubenSomsen: | I did not, do you have any recommended reading? | [06:39] |
| RubenSomsen: | One thing I'm curious about, is there a history between trilema and the early days of Bitcoin? | [06:41] |
| diana_coman: | hm, where to start you from since it's not exactly a small topic; I'd say for basics and at least useful in more ways than one: personal sovereignty, the WoT, the V manual genesis | [06:42] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: ahahah | [06:42] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: mind giving me a brief summary as to what you made of trilema so far? | [06:43] |
| RubenSomsen: | Thank you, I will read those | [06:43] |
| diana_coman: | so that I get some idea where you are at. | [06:43] |
| RubenSomsen: | I have no idea. Perhaps developers who talk about more than just coding. It feels like its glory days are in the past, and I am left looking at the remains. This is mostly my imagination filling in many blanks, I am probably wrong. | [06:45] |
| diana_coman: | you are …how to put this, not even close enough to be …wrong, lolz. | [06:45] |
| diana_coman: | do you know this thing that being wrong about something means that you are talking at least close enough to the topic as it were. | [06:46] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: from those links you gave, I get the impression that you are very much in with the popular crowd, segwit and all that; correct? | [06:47] |
| diana_coman: | re timing, you know you can for starters perhaps look at the keys of people around and where were they created, might give some hint, lol. | [06:48] |
| RubenSomsen: | I would say that is fair to say, but I am generally very open to differing opinions. I would not say I came to those views because they were popular. | [06:48] |
| RubenSomsen: | And I am looking forward to being corrected on the origin of trilema. | [06:49] |
| diana_coman: | well, for as long as you are still able to actually evaluate and re-evaluate things as you find them out, everything is still open; it's just when you are done re-evaluating anything that there's nothing left really. | [06:50] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-10-08 mp_en_viaje: "no time to read" implicitly includes "i'm done re-evaluatin ganything" | [06:50] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: do you know what this chan here is for/about? | [06:51] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012374 – meant "when the keys were created", no idea what/how I messed that up. | [06:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 06:48:38 diana_coman: re timing, you know you can for starters perhaps look at the keys of people around and where were they created, might give some hint, lol. | [06:51] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: btw, you should register a key with deedbot if you want that there is at all any "you" around here. | [06:52] |
| diana_coman: | the WoT article I linked earlier should help explain "why" on this. | [06:52] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: re keys and exploring the wot, see wot.deedbot.org eg. this is me | [06:54] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, now I snowed you in with links and all that, I'll let you chew through them; I'll bbl. | [06:55] |
| RubenSomsen: | yes, I am chewing, thanks for the links and for the chat, diana | [06:58] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: yw | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: have you been organising this ? | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | oh huh, "Prof. Ruben Somsen" too; this will be fun. | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: why not give the links above when I asked about you? | [09:32] |
| RubenSomsen: | diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha | [09:54] |
| RubenSomsen: | I went through all your links, but I'm still puzzled. I see the WoT as a recurring theme, and this particular web seems to center around mircea_popescu | [09:55] |
| RubenSomsen: | that individual seems to be an early bitcoin trader who did quite well for themselves | [09:56] |
| RubenSomsen: | and your comment regarding segwit made me wonder whether there's some dissatisfaction with the direction that Bitcoin took | [09:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012331 << Ack. For Thursday and Friday I reduced reading The Odyssey to 1h from 2h, and I added 2h for both of those days of reading/drafting an article of annotations of trinque's irc bot. I also assigned my Sunday 4h slot to doing a final draft of said annotations article. | [10:17] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 04:05:56 diana_coman: whaack: get yourself all the sources that trinque published and make a plan to chew through them; they are mainly lisp too and you wanted that so hopefully you won't take ages on it either. | [10:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | RubenSomsen: It is less of a dissatisfaction with what the core and other devteams did, and more of a rejection. | [10:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | Bitcoin today works fine without segwit. It works very well on clients that don't use levelDB, etc | [10:20] |
| whaack: | RubenSomsen: I would not sleep well at night if my bitcoins were in an 'anyone-can-spend' address and I was relying on the mercy of the miner's enforcing some soft rule to keep them there. | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012391 – without any haha really, you should make your own website and own everything you did/do, yes; it's quite basic personhood at that. | [12:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 09:54:00 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012393 – ahaha, now this is quite something; a bit like saying "oh, that sun seems to be a little glowworm that got a lucky break. | [12:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 09:56:21 RubenSomsen: that individual seems to be an early bitcoin trader who did quite well for themselves | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: it's all there and here and in the logs – it just needs reading really; and maybe realising that "x years in bitcoin" might mean quite a different thing from what you thought it did. | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: here, let me help you just a bit: http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/ http://trilema.com/2016/to-the-dao-and-the-ethereum-community-fuck-you/ http://trilema.com/2015/the-news-in-brief-hearn-is-a-shitstain-mp-is-right-fuck-reddit-love-satoshi/ http://trilema.com/2014/usgavin-the-lolcow/ … | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | … http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/ | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | if after all that you can't find the rest on your own steam, it's unlikely anyone can help really so I'll leave it at that. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | RubenSomsen: http://trilema.com/2015/curriculum-vitae/ | [12:37] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012333 << welcome. | [12:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 06:22:04 RubenSomsen: Looks like my patience has proven fruitful, hello | [12:51] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012391 << setting up a blog with mp-wp is a standard starting point, lobbes wrote a set-up guide and he links to a few others. the exercise will provide a useful intro to V. | [13:01] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 09:54:00 RubenSomsen: diana_coman: yup that's all me, maybe I should make a website that lists it all haha | [13:01] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-10-Dec-2019#1012398 << works fine without the 'multisig' softfork likewise. | [13:03] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 10:20:59 BingoBoingo: Bitcoin today works fine without segwit. It works very well on clients that don't use levelDB, etc | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | spyked: can you add the younghands.club feed to feedbot in here? | [13:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: look though at your plan as well as a whole and figure out what \% you are where. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | see if you're happy with it. | [15:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Do you mean for this week, or for all things planned since I started in younghands? | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I mean for any week; look at \% of time you spend and on what sort of things. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | take this week's plan for instance. | [15:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah I see, I misunderstood the request to be what \% I have completed so far, not how am I allocating my time. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | so good you asked then, at least it got clarified. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why no pics! | [15:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: they're coming, they're coming! I'm expecting it'll take some time to sort through them though so I wanted to make sure the text wasn't taking a back seat from the start | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | well, next time I'll have a go then "why no text!!!" :D | [15:56] |
| BingoBoingo: | The nice thing about photoblogging is once the pictures are organized, they make nice signposts for the text. | [15:57] |
| jfw: | any tool suggestions for photo culling btw? I'm quite sure my current setup is sub-optimal. | [15:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: And do feel free to ask if you get your bronze men on horseback mixed up | [15:57] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: if in doubt I can always guess Artigas right? | [15:58] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012166 – I reckon this advice is valid for me too. | [15:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 12:27:14 diana_coman: whaack: it's certainly a reflection of the fact that you find it important, yes; and so indeed you should certainly write about it; note that this doesn't mean that every tiny detail is just as important ie you aim for truthful (if, inevitably, subjective since it's your own lens) not some "objectively complete" nonsense. | [15:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Right! Darktable doesn't suck too much for batch processing a folder full of images. Ristretto is good for flipping through a bunch of pictures and hitting the delete key as needed to get a folder ready for darktable. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it is, yes. | [15:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: With your camera I imagine you should be able to read names, but Artigas is a good default guess. | [16:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | Lavalleja another | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | re photo tools, I'm probably not the best person to advise; I used all sorts, gimp, ristretto, feh, imagemagick; I think it's more a matter of figuring out the process that works best for you and then fitting the tools into it. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | ie I can't spend too much time on photos or I'll throw all of them to the bin, so… | [16:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | The workflow where I dump the photos from the camera into a folder, prune the folder with ristretto, and batch export them to blog size with darktable came about with the pizarro dismantling. Probably not the best work flow, but it keeps me from having to devote much attentive time to the task. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: darktable is looking more advanced than anything I need now compared to existing imagemagick recipe, but good to know; on ristretto, I was an XFCE fan back in the late '00s but it's now sadly blocked by DBus ban | [16:07] |
| jfw: | either cleaning that from a current release or reviving an old release that didn't mandate DBus would make a strong candidate for tmsr-os desktop imo. | [16:08] |
| jfw: | I think I can stick with 'feh' for now and focus on the process as diana_coman says. | [16:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | The particular tools involved probably aren't important as the look, cull, resize (if needed), and order workflow | [16:10] |
| jfw: | I'll say – it's pretty neat to read BingoBoingo in his real voice now; my imagined one was pretty far off, as such things tend to be. Not Middle Western enough probably. | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | hah; so… are you going to publish a recording too? | [16:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | Writing too much about the photos before you've got them ordered seems like a recipe for leaving a lot of text on the discard pile | [16:14] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: didn't get one I'm afraid. | [16:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Nice to hear. It's always interesting to encounter in the irlspace folks from the IRC. | [16:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay without spending the time to create categories and come up with specific percentages, I see a problem and the reason for your message about saltmines being the most important thing for me. The issue is that I have this big chunk of saltmines to start the week, and then i'm scattered throughout 'a little/(a lot of) writing here, a little reading there, a dash of home improvement.' I would like to have a long multid | [16:17] |
| whaack: | ay block of time allocated where I am working on a tmsr related project. How about for next week and going forward I adjust by doing (1) 16 hours of saltmines a week split on Monday and Tuesday (2) 2h timed-and-capped writing sessions (ideally I can squeeze these into my saltmines days, but otherwise on Wed/Thursday) (3) allocate the rest of the time (about ~28 hours) to a tmsr related project you assign me. For next week the proje | [16:17] |
| whaack: | ct that makes the most sense imo is building my computer and installing one of cuntoo/gales linux. | [16:17] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: It also didn't occur to us that a photograph of the servers rolling down the rambla is something that we should have taken until the servers were done rolling. Will try to get one when asciilifeform's servers are moving. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: aha, servers rollin' for sure. | [16:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not a single person asked us what we were moving or why. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's also simply overall; also, reading is not work ffs, it's meant to be enjoyable; the way you plan the reading it's like a chore; is it that horrid for you or what? | [16:19] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: makes sense re photos as guideposts. | [16:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No reading is not horrid at all lol. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then why so planned and eating out of the time for work, I don't get it. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, I just realised that there are even some old voice recordings from old [fain.polimedia.us][fain] days, ha. | [16:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Because it is enjoyable but needs focus, I don't see it as something to do while tired before going to sleep. (Nothing wrong with reading before going to sleep, but I have to assume I didn't digest the text as well as I could have.) | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well yes, but what, after 8 hours of saltmines you are so tired that you can't read for 2 hours?? | [16:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Here's a sample from my blogging output that does the narrative/photo mix. You probably recognize a lotta these places now. http://bingology.net/2019/notes-from-the-second-meeting-with-counsel-or-what-i-have-come-to-expect-from-urugauyos-in-offices/ | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, 8 hours of saltmines by itself does not incapacitate me for reading. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re installation attempts, give Gales a spin at least; at any rate, if you want graphics though, you'll still need something else. | [16:31] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: is the fain link supposed to be alive? looks like 'domain parking' from here | [16:32] |
| jfw: | whaack: at your service for any questions on the Gales front. | [16:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman and jfw: Thanks. The only reason I need graphics afaik is for reading my own/others' blogs. If this is a 'self-perceived need' that i don't actually need, lmk. | [16:36] |
| jfw: | whaack, I do think you need at least one machine capable of that. ANd you were interested in Eulora client work too right? | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ah, no, sadly it's not alive anymore; I linked it for reference as to what it was, though probably I should have linked some trilema articles on it (eg http://trilema.com/2011/sa-desenam-cu-fain/); but the recordings are on blogs, there was some poem reading/translating, hm | [16:37] |
| whaack: | jfw: ah yes, that as well. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for reading blogs you wouldn't need graphics absolutely, no; that being said though, you DO need ONE station with graphics, lol | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | yes, for eulora if not for anything else. | [16:37] |
| jfw: | photo blogs?? | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: are you *reading* photos now? | [16:39] |
| jfw: | ahaha, no, indeed. But it'd be harder to make sense of the text in them. | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | yes, if no graphics then no pics, obv; if all the article is nonsense without seeing the pics, then shame on the author really :P | [16:40] |
| jfw: | true too and I had a feeling you'd say that. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | yes, well, what's "harder" going to do though? ie all sorts of reasons for "harder" otherwise anyway; but yes, pics should not be mandatory for making sense of text, really now. | [16:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: So I think I mentioned before, i have a lenovo laptop with a hello-world gentoo install. I could replace the gentoo with gales, and then use my new computer for an os with graphics. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | perhaps not as much "harder" as missing one part, ie less content than the author provided, which is indeed precisely what it is: cut something out and you'll have less than it was (that being said and pushing this to the absolute ideal, even pics ca have textual descriptions to convey precisely what they are there for but let's not get too carried away). | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | can* | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: makes sense; but maybe first build that computer and get it running. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | for the logs since I brought up fain, this is the end announcement, when it was auctioned but nobody wanted to take it on and keep it alive. | [16:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay that will come before installing anything on the lenovo. I still need to choose an os that has graphics between now and ~Monday. Cuntoo afaik would be the best choice in terms of having something working where I can also be of use testing. | [16:55] |
| jfw: | I stand corrected on "harder", and wouldn't disagree that the text should stand on its own. So, just missing out on some of the provided content. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you mean? cuntoo does not have the x stack, no. | [16:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah for some reason I thought it did. Well then nevermind. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no but it's based on gentoo so in principle if you can get it to bring in the whole x stack you'll end up with…gentoo, I suppose. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, jfw for your ro-practice, here's from fain days: http://ossasepia.com/2010/07/20/versuri-si-traduceri/ answering the request from http://trilema.com/2010/cateva-versuri/ (and in turn the PS + some comments answer mine, as it happens). | [17:00] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012198 – thanks whaack, small changes went a long way on the css, mostly one color pick and deleting some web designer silliness. The stylesheet should make an easy diff against the one from stock 'classic' theme | [17:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 13:50:36 whaack: jfw: have fun in Uruguay, btw I never mentioned – the css on your blog is lookin sharp indeed! it's a nice touch for the great content that's being produced (although I admit I haven't found much time to fully read your articles.) | [17:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Is starting by installing cuntoo and then setting myself up with x11 a worthy exercise? | [17:46] |
| whaack: | jfw: your welcome | [17:46] |
| whaack: | you're* | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | behind the scenes, people ask for the recordings so here are the 2 rather poor recordings – first 2 links as the rest (other people reading same text) meanwhile vanished, gah. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, it's a … workout, lolz; how much did you use gentoo so far? | [17:48] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i didn't use it at all. | [17:49] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012243 – muahaha, chips whose time has come had best fear my pliers. 120 VAC smoke testing is fun too though we didn't go for that here. | [17:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 09:01:39 diana_coman: heh, jfw finds out he likes destroying things too, not only making them? | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm, in that case it's not all that clear if it's worth it really; tbh on my eulora-client-has-to-have-everything I ended up setting centos 6 because no idea wtf else is even remotely sufferable currently otherwise | [17:50] |
| jfw: | "Click si ascultati:" – this much I understand! | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | the first is a text with all words starting with f – you can read it too as it's the previous article there | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ | [17:51] |
| jfw: | haha nice. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: last time I had a gentoo all graphics and bells and whistles and all that, it was horribly stinky (though I didn't bother to try and clean it, it was going to be stinky and that was that) | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well then centos 6 sounds like the practical option. I can use my side laptop for masochistic exercises with experimental operating systems. | [18:00] |
| jfw: | whaack: manual X11 build even on dynamic-linked musl and as someone who knows what most of the necessary pieces are was a workout indeed; wouldn't recommend as beginner exercise. OTOH, a 'normal' gentoo (if there's even such a thing) could be good experience and can indeed run full graphics after the requisite driver futzing. But yeah, centos 6 probably easiest. | [18:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Centos6 is probably the safer option. Playing with Devuan "Jessie" it seemed fine, but who knows how long the mirrors supporting it will remain before it gets depreciated for the next "oldstable" release. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: aha; note that centos 6 is a. last one without systemd b. set to vanish next March iirc ie get everything you need for it offline. | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | and sure, plenty of masochistic exercises available, don't worry of any lack there. | [18:04] |
| jfw: | there is however http://vault.centos.org/ , they preserve better than many. | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | yeah; still better on own shelf :P | [18:06] |
| jfw: | aye, and iirc it's not all that big of a thing to mirror at least if you restrict architectures | [18:07] |
| whaack: | the council appears to be in agreement. Okay I will go with centos 6 and make backups of drivers and such. | [18:07] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012284 – I totally just got what 'shannonizing' means, long after having seen the term in logs and read partway through his paper. | [18:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 13:25:00 diana_coman: whaack: words are NOT chosen at random around those parts! if you want random-words, go to the shannonizing crowd. | [18:38] |
| jfw: | RubenSomsen: welcome. "this is by no means a replacement for running a full node" – heh, well at least you say it! | [19:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-10 06:33:39 RubenSomsen: and more recently this, I suppose: https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/bitcoin-dev/2019-September/017287.html | [19:29] |
| jfw: | I wonder though, why the interest in exploring the space of how "owning btc" could be made easier for leechers who don't actually care to own their node? | [19:33] |
| jfw: | "It is our hope that gaining a deeper understanding of Bitcoin will lead to a deeply motivated community." – nice; deeper understanding can certainly be had from hanging around here though "community" might be too squishy a term. | [19:45] |
| jfw: | shrysr: you still tuned in here? How's that learning and search for new job going? You still on track to resurface after Christmas? | [20:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Comment in you mod hopper | [23:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | *your | [23:10] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: ty, approved | [23:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report : Today was not that successful. I got 9.5 hours of saltmines done, but almost nothing else. | [23:52] |
#ossasepia Logs for 09 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Nothing to add other than the progress on the re-reading article this morning. | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012295 – sure; does 7pm UTC work for you on some day of the week? | [09:29] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 20:01:05 lobbes: diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school. | [09:29] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012298 – ha! looking forward to jfw's article then! | [09:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-08 20:18:45 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Tourism with jfw today seems to have been a success. The lower bound for distance put on the feet while tourisming together is 10 miles/16 kilometers. He took lots of pictures. | [09:30] |
| dorion_road: | good morning/afternoon #o | [11:41] |
| dorion_road: | if someone is available to grant me !!up in #t, I'd appreciate it. | [11:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion_road: done | [11:48] |
| lobbes: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-09-Dec-2019#1012301 << I could do Thursday at 8pm UTC if that works. I can also do Friday at 7pm UTC proper. Whichever works for you best I will carve out | [18:45] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-09 09:29:39 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-08-Dec-2019#1012295 – sure; does 7pm UTC work for you on some day of the week? | [18:45] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: Thursday 8pm can work, yes; Friday is really not much of an option (ie it tends to not work, on most weeks) | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: what hours are you on irc otherwise anyway? | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: roger that. Sounds like Thursday at 8pm then | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | well I have the saltmines mon-friday each week. So I'm usually able to irc weekends and weeknights | [18:47] |
| lobbes: | some days I can weasel a work-from-home day (going to do that Thursday) however | [18:48] |
| lobbes: | is on Eastern Standard Time btw | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | ah, meant to ask if it's utc-5 so yes, est; that seems to leave indeed only that sort of odd weekday evening or otherwise some weekend time, hm. | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, all right, we'll talk this Thursday at 8pm utc then. | [18:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: sounds good. ty again for the opportunity | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | yw | [18:55] |
| jfw: | Hello world! My cargo and person have made it home safe. | [20:35] |
| jfw: | The servers did attract some curiosity at customs, but no trouble once clarified they were my own, used, relevant to occupation, or whatever other checksums the agent was looking for. | [20:41] |
| jfw: | They appear undamaged on first inspection. Can't quite say the same for myself, with one blister on finger to complement BingoBoingo's metal cut. | [20:44] |
| jfw: | I know I've got logs/responses to catch up on; will tackle that tonight through tomorrow. | [20:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Good to hear. The finger's healing up nicely, the torn aluminum made a rather clean cut. | [21:13] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: Glad to hear that then. | [21:16] |
| dorion_road: | hey jfw good to hear! | [21:22] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: I'll also give you a healthy window to get your photoblog out first. | [23:01] |
#ossasepia Logs for 08 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: Completed the TODO list: I did 2 hours of reading the Odyssey (I got through just over 60 pages in that time,) finished my article for my meetup with Adam, and wrote the review + plan for next week. | [00:02] |
| diana_coman: | heh, jfw finds out he likes destroying things too, not only making them? | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: does that mean all the tasks for this week got done? | [09:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Not yet, but hopefully by noon today. The last task I have is a rough draft of the rereading article on trilema. | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at some point you'll have to review those plans too overall, in one of the weekly reviews, it's not *all* just "how I changed". | [09:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. I will go back to something closer to my original format for next week. I thought I was getting the review of the plans in with the EOD reports, but I could dive into more detail in the review about for example the accuracy of my projections on how long different tasks took. | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the EOD reports are fine and good but they are just that: reports; do you get the difference between report and review? | [09:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes. Simplfying: the report is the 'what' and the review is the 'why.' The review needs to include an analysis of why the report was what it was and how to improve in the future. | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | works as a very simplified version, yes. | [09:56] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For the re-reading article my understanding of the structure is that (1) MP mentions briefly the importance of re-reading and then (2) shows an example of something he picked up on upon rereading. My plan for my current article will be to focus on point (1). I am not sure I even fully understand what he picked up on from reading the Caragiale excerpt + hi | [12:36] |
| whaack: | s son Mateiu's excerpt. | [12:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: MP ends with the line, "Now go forth and wonder why "discovering hypocrisy" is such a big deal for "narcissists"." From the article I would have to say the reason why discovering hypocrisy is important for Mateiu is because he wants what daddy says in his letters (which are assumed to be ~ "dude, get your shit together, you suck. Look how I am a man and my life is completed because i did x, y, z.") to be hypocritical s | [12:41] |
| whaack: | o he can (a) pretend daddy loves him (b) excuse his own laziness for not doing x,y,z | [12:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ I am quite unsure about my above statement. | [12:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: http://trilema.com/2017/re-reading-is-the-most-powerful-tool/?b=successive&e=#select + "in this vein" -> it's the whole process there, not just a pedestrian "example = here's what I found". | [12:45] |
| diana_coman: | ie at first (and even several subsequent) read(s) of Caragiale's description of meeting Eminescu, you might get all sorts, there's plenty just in that alone. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | arguably you could get some things from Mateiu's letter too (though I admit I can barely stand reading his whining but anyways). | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | at some point though and *only upon re-reading* as in layer upon layer of peelings of meaning and of making connections and of integrating and you-name-it-what-else, something alltogether new may come to light for you | [12:47] |
| diana_coman: | as in this case that sharp contrast between what Caragiale himself wanted in a friend vs what he obviously wanted in a son (some years later too!) | [12:48] |
| diana_coman: | as to the last sentence, think of who in there would "discover hypocrisy" and then be all butthurt about it. | [12:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, the selected bit you just linked was informative to me and *that* was what I want to focus on. I guess the problem is that I am not (yet) able to fully understand how what Caragiale wanted in a friend vs. what he wanted in a son comes to light after a few rereads. | [12:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's the contrast between those 2 and the consequences of it that comes to light. | [12:53] |
| diana_coman: | ie that require re-reads because you can't possibly quite get it at first read since at first read you barely get what is said in just that text really eg you might perhaps piece together just what it was exactly this "what I want in a friend", if even that. | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | it takes several passes to make links and the more passes for the more far-reaching links really. | [12:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: re the "discover hypocrisy" point you make, I think I am looking at that from the wrong angle. My intuition was that the 'narcissist' _wants_ to discover hypocrisy: he combs through the writings of his betters searching for something hypocritical so he can say, 'alas, this guy is b.s.' and feel good about himself. | [12:56] |
| whaack: | ^ That is possibly just a projection of a personal problem I (used to) have. | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: btw, is this meant to be the review of An Outpost of Progress? | [12:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: yeah, it does sound a lot like a projection first of all; for one thing, note the "" in the text on both hypocrisy and narcissist; and for the other, read the damned text, not your own inner script unless you really want to avoid at all costs actually learning something. | [13:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. When I wrote the first article I saw it as being too much of a paraphrasing / rewriting An Outpost of Progress in my own words. I thought to take a message from what I read and write something based off that instead. | [13:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that's fine and nice but it's not a review :P | [13:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, I can write a review as well. You did suggest that I should write multiple articles on An Outpost of Progress when I said I felt I had to lot to say from reading it. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | it's always fine to write more / + something else, sure; it's NEVER fine to SILENTLY switch something for something else, wtf. | [13:03] |
| diana_coman: | what is this, the soviet shop, we'll give you what-we-have-no-matter-what-you-asked-for? and be happy too. | [13:04] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, I doubt you said all you can get out of reading it. | [13:05] |
| diana_coman: | and esp out of re-reading it :P | [13:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I read back my plans, and you are right the assignment was a "REVIEW of An Outpost of Progress" through the weeks I changed the wording to an "An Outpost of Progress article" | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | myeah. | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for that matter, it's not even the first time you do this stupid morphing to the more convenient – see the very first delivery vs the actual requirement and even stated (by you!) work that was supposed to be done. | [13:12] |
| whaack: | is taking a look | [13:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes from rereading the logs I remember now. I was supposed to research into the potential different branches of work within tmsr and instead I just listed what I already knew about. | [13:19] |
| diana_coman: | yes. | [13:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: One problem is my mind treating words and wording of instructions as something interchangeable. "review of An Outpost of Progress" becoming "an article on An Outpost of Progress" completely changes the task. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: words are NOT chosen at random around those parts! if you want random-words, go to the shannonizing crowd. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | and for that matter, you should not choose words at random either; that would be piling even more idiocy on top of the stupidity, indeed. | [13:25] |
| whaack: | I know that words are not chose randomly here. My mind may just be swapping words around until it finds a 'path of least resitance' | [13:27] |
| whaack: | And I do my best to carefully choose every word I use. | [13:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I should note this morning I made plans to meet at 1pm with someone and I have a birthday party to attend to afterwards. As of now I am not on track to have the rough draft of my rereading article finished by then. | [13:31] |
| diana_coman: | not exactly a surprise by now, is it. | [14:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, I can't say it is much of a surprise. I ask for permission as the meeting is a date and not something I know that I can easily reschedule | [14:37] |
| whaack: | just experienced his first earthquake. all good. | [14:41] |
| diana_coman: | all right, go to it. | [15:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Thank you. I apologize for having 'asked permission' just now. I know this is not actually asking permission. I thought it was acceptable to make plans for this afternoon since it is Sunday and at the start of the morning I was on schedule to complete a rough draft of my article. I do have a good start to the draft, although I would put some more time on it today if I didn't have these upcoming plans. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | myeah. | [15:08] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: so now that the mp-wp bot project has more or less panned out I've had a chance to pinpoint more of my own weaknesses and things I'd like to improve about myself. I was wondering if we could sit down sometime this week to discuss my entering into a more formalized training in your school. | [20:01] |
| lobbes: | I'm not sure how it'd be structured but I'm willing to submit. I just know that I'm still not quite a person yet, and am growing tired of these same bugaboos cropping up in my life at all turns. I know I'll need some help in avoiding them in the future | [20:01] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-12-04 mircea_popescu: it's this sorta thing that gets you bloody. | [20:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Tourism with jfw today seems to have been a success. The lower bound for distance put on the feet while tourisming together is 10 miles/16 kilometers. He took lots of pictures. | [20:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw's distance traveled on foot still greater as he consistently took the initiative to come to my address. | [20:20] |
#ossasepia Logs for 07 Dec 2019
| whaack: | Another side task that I have not forgotten is fixing the pingbacks appearing in my recent comments. I was tempted today to apply your fix without going through the V overhead, but I figured that was the wrong way to go about it. The problem I have is I have made a few edits to my mpwp without changing up my V tree. So if my understanding is correct there will be a problem with my manifest file when I try to apply the new patch. Wh | [00:02] |
| whaack: | at's more, I built my mp-wp folder with V locally and then scp'd it over to my server. If I update mp-wp locally and try to scp it over again, i'm going to lose the few edits I've made + my photos. There is a work around for these problems, but it will require an a bit of an investigation and that is why I have not yet applied the fix. | [00:02] |
| jfw: | and bags arrived safe and sound. | [03:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: glad to hear it and enjoy your time there! | [04:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: applying code manually would not be a problem in itself (it's code and you are supposed to read & get it therefore be able to deploy it yourself!); the problem there though is from your changes: if they are useful fixes, why didn't you v-pack and publish them? | [04:37] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The change is a snippet of code that prevents the selection tool from mangling html tags. I wasn't sure if I should v-pack it because MP commented that the problem came from user error, not from anything wrong with the tool. I kept it running on my personal blog because I still believe it has some utility and I had already made the change anyways. | [09:31] |
| whaack: | s/ that the problem/that the problem it fixes/ | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | well, you are then quite stuck on either porting all vpatches to some local vtree branch or otherwise making all further changes manually | [09:35] |
| diana_coman: | useful pain on both options there. | [09:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: i think the right way to go about addressing the problem is to create a vpatch, even if i only use it personally | [09:42] |
| whaack: | (I applied the pingbacks-in-recent-comments fix manually for now) | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note that if you go the route of own local v-branch, you'll need to keep regrinding all future vpatches; if that's worth it, sure. | [10:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah right, I forgot there is this (drawback?) to having a manifest file. (Without the manifest file I would only have to regrind for patches that made changes to files affected by my private vpatch) | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: no, it's not a drawback to having a manifest file, ugh. | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you know, by now you can probably append there a whole list of stuff that fell by the wayside. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | it's unclear to me how do you pick out of the list and/or whether you have any defined way to pick really. | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what that is, is the pain that signals to you that either you are doing something stupid or otherwise the rest of people around are doing something stupid. | [10:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok. | [10:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Dec-2019#1012213 << The balance I've hit is mp-wp patches touching the theme still need read and applied manually so I don't nuke the changes I made to the theme. Just have to make sure the theme folder has a name other than one included in the v-tree | [10:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-07 04:37:12 diana_coman: whaack: applying code manually would not be a problem in itself (it's code and you are supposed to read & get it therefore be able to deploy it yourself!); the problem there though is from your changes: if they are useful fixes, why didn't you v-pack and publish them? | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | in truth, themes should rather be branches on the mp-wp common trunk, the way I see it but this is again not entirely possible without friction atm and so the tension there + getting them mixed in, ugh. | [10:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | Right. Just the way mp-wp and its predecessor is organized, the themes contain moving parts that aren't entirely restricted to a theme's functions.php file | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, it's a mess for sure. | [10:33] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Dec-2019#1012211 << glad to hear you made it and met BingoBoingo. | [19:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-07 03:31:59 jfw: and bags arrived safe and sound. | [19:52] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-07-Dec-2019#1012223 << ok, I will append the wayside tasks. | [19:54] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-07 10:12:00 diana_coman: dorion_road: you know, by now you can probably append there a whole list of stuff that fell by the wayside. | [19:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion_road: jfw contributed admirably to the day's disk destruction session. | [21:02] |
| dorion_road: | BingoBoingo hah, nice! sounds fun. pics to come ? | [21:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | dorion_road: Pics to come | [21:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | It turns out NAND chips flake, sorta like slate when you break them up | [21:18] |
| BingoBoingo: | Since the two rusty spinners ended up having metallic platters, they are cooking in a mild acid bath after having been sanded. | [21:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Despite Samsung SSD's using pentalobe screws, a pentalobe screwdriver was found to be unecessary for shucking them to get the good stuff out of the aluminum shells. | [21:21] |
#ossasepia Logs for 06 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4.5 hours of saltmines, and ~6hrs of writing about meeting with Adam. Despite the time put in, I have a yet to complete a rough draft of our encounter. I figure now that I will need a minimum of 4hr+ extra time to write this article. Even that may be an underestimate. I assigned the final draft to my open 4h slot on Saturday. | [00:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012113 – ha! not a moment too soon to have sorted those out, is it; for beeping elucidation -> rtfm? | [03:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 17:51:34 whaack: huzzah two days after arriving and my UPS is paying dividends. I am connected via backup internet running on power from my ups. Looks like Costa Rica is having an extended rainy season. Now to figure out how to make it stop beeping… | [03:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012117 – you know, it depends on what you have running and for how long the UPS can keep it running, in principle; if you don't care, you are better off just turning everything off anyway for the night and there's no problem at all. | [03:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 18:15:19 whaack: asciilifeform: I may have to do that if I can't figure out how to turn it off completely. I don't need to be woken up at night to be told my power is out. | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012127 – now this should better end up as some chronicles of tico adventures since I can't quite figure out what else can take 10hours+. | [03:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 00:23:34 whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: I did 4.5 hours of saltmines, and ~6hrs of writing about meeting with Adam. Despite the time put in, I have a yet to complete a rough draft of our encounter. I figure now that I will need a minimum of 4hr+ extra time to write this article. Even that may be an underestimate. I assigned the final draft to my open 4h slot on Saturday. | [03:43] |
| jfw: | Morning all. My holiday is set for Dec 19 – Jan 5, which is 5 days later than the previous cvasi-plan. | [08:45] |
| jfw: | I plan to use the extra December workdays to continue wallet work on a more reasonable schedule with more slack for reading and such. | [08:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sounds good; how's the work on the wallet going otherwise? | [08:56] |
| jfw: | Behind the optimistic schedule but going well otherwise, no major obstacles as yet. | [08:57] |
| jfw: | The online component is able to import address lists and scan the chain to import relevant transactions; this scan took ~13 hours for a test set of ~1k addresses scraped from some arbitrary blocks. | [08:59] |
| diana_coman: | not that bad. | [08:59] |
| jfw: | I did hit a major performance problem, which through the python profiler I soon tracked down to a simple missing db index. | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | indices can make quite a difference indeed; so according to the not-so-optimistic schedule, when do you plan to be done with the wallet? | [09:01] |
| jfw: | I don't have a ready answer. Would like to say by the 19th but… possibly still optimistic. | [09:02] |
| diana_coman: | I see, ok. | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you end up looking for a dehumidifier make sure you calculate the cost too, esp if you run it in a sieve-house that you end up trying to dehumidify the jungle or something. | [09:10] |
| diana_coman: | the cost of running it* | [09:11] |
| whaack: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012128 << I have been now reading the manual on all products I've received, including the manual on a quite self-explanatory rice cooker. The APC came with a list of safety tips + installation diagram, but the 'manual' comes in a cd format which I don't have the means to play. I should have searched for an online manual, I will put that on the TODO list. | [11:05] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 03:40:18 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012113 – ha! not a moment too soon to have sorted those out, is it; for beeping elucidation -> rtfm? | [11:05] |
| whaack: | As for the dehumidifier, getting that device is towards the bottom of the todo list. First I need to seal the entryways, as you imply, and get a hygrometer. I have not had that many skin issues since arriving here, at least not like I did the first time I came to Tamarindo (I got an infection that mostly hits babies – impetigo – for 1.5 weeks on my right eyelid, quite awful.) That said I will find a good skin powder on my next trip | [11:18] |
| whaack: | to town. | [11:18] |
| whaack: | And my writing is not taking 10hr+ because it is an epic saga. It is taking that time because I flip flopped on how I want to structure it / what I want it to contain (do I write about what we talked about, do I write about what we did, do I do some mixture?) I will commit to something today and write with more pace. | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so it's your spinning taking 10hrs+, not the writing; make a decision and stick by it, what; if you can't decide, then you get to write ALL variants (and if that doesn't make you decide next time faster, it's at least some writing practice for all that spent time). | [11:30] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay yes it is spinning, and I thought to myself last night something similar to your instructions above: 'I should just write more and chisel it down at the end.' | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what do you over-think there anyway? | [11:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I guess what causes spinning is I over-think what the effect of the article will be depending on how I write it. | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | certainly; for starters: why are you concerned with the effect? | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | as if you could anyway figure out the effect upfront; how are you going exactly to know the effect it will have and on whom, pray tell? | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: as your latest plan was made only up to today, does this mean you are publishing the next plan today or are you keeping the weekends out of the plan or what? | [11:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well shouldn't I be concerned with the effect of every article I write? For this one specifically it is because it describing an interaction gives a window of sight into me and Adam personally, and I do care what others think of me + how I describe someone else I like. I agree though that it is laughable to think I could predict what the actual effect of the article will be. | [11:44] |
| whaack: | s/an interaction gives/an interaction that gives/ | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why exactly should you be concerned "with the effect"? it's anyway a quite impossible "concern" and yes, it will inevitably send you spinning precisely because it is…impossible to fix. | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | when you write something, you *should* be concerned with reflecting as truthfully as you can whatever it is you are writing about but that's where it stops really; the "effect" is entirely out of your control and it will always be so. | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | understand this: if you take the time to write something, it's because *that something* is worth writing about; that's it. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and for that matter, in general, stop trying to control other people's reactions, it's silly bordering on stupid really because there's no real benefit from it but it comes with a very real cost. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [11:55] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay ack re the above points. I will write the most truthful reflection I can and not burn time pondering the potential ways it will be received. And if anything the draw to spinning may be used as an indicator that what i'm writing is worth it. | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's certainly a reflection of the fact that you find it important, yes; and so indeed you should certainly write about it; note that this doesn't mean that every tiny detail is just as important ie you aim for truthful (if, inevitably, subjective since it's your own lens) not some "objectively complete" nonsense. | [12:27] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012157 << it means I am publishing the my review and next plan today. saturday and sunday will be included in the plan. | [12:28] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 11:43:18 diana_coman: dorion_road: as your latest plan was made only up to today, does this mean you are publishing the next plan today or are you keeping the weekends out of the plan or what? | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: works. | [12:28] |
| diana_coman: | will go to admire more closely how English attempts at winter failed yet again; will bbl. | [12:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Frequently when I am stuck on the structure of what I want to write, I have to push myself to write out the trocitos, the little pieces that are going through my head whether or not I am sure I want to include them in the finished piece. | [12:47] |
| whaack: | learned a new Spanish word. | [12:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | Once I've settled on a structure most of these may need to be rewritten, and many of them won't make the final cut. Especially on Qntra… | [12:48] |
| BingoBoingo: | What writing them out before I have the final structure does is it gives me the simpler task of re-writing when I put together the final piece instead of writing out the whole piece from nothing. | [12:49] |
| whaack: | I do have a small junkyard of trocitos from yesterday. I didn't just stare at the screen the whole time. I think the problem is that I could have made a larger collection of trocitos to choose from. | [12:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, part of the challenge is putting together the process and making the electrically conductive chunk of flesh in the headcase adapt to the process. | [12:50] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I didn't fully grok that last point. Are you saying that I need to put together a _writing_ process and then find a way to make myself follow that writing process? | [12:52] |
| dorion_road: | BingoBoingo an !!up in #t would be appreciated. | [12:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Not necessarily, but that's a point. As you get experience writing, you'll stumble into habits that may be brought together into a process that works for you in terms of leveraging your time well. Your brain may actively resist your intentions to bring the productive habits together into a solid workflow. | [12:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | When you find something that helps your output in volume/quality or simplifies your workflow, you may have to force yourself to repeat the process a few times or it won't stick. | [12:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | Or you may find parts of the process you stumbled into have other costs somewhere in either quality of output or volume of output. | [12:59] |
| BingoBoingo: | Some thing that need to be written will demand a different process than others. With the basement evacuation narrative I did the first draft with events as they happened, in order, and simply revised the thing for typos and clarity. | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | With Yesterday's VPN bug writeup I instead had to read the initial report, load up what the thing was describing, and hammer that down into a summary of what I understood of the thing and its background. | [13:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Sorry for the delayed response, I received a phone call from an old friend. I know / am learning that there are a few categories of writing topics and each of them require their own set of procedures. Is there a reason for the brain's active resistance of productive writing habits? Are there specific actions that you need to take to fight the resistance? | [13:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | I don't know any reason the brain resists other than it seems to be biased towards the familiar. Despite active recognition the familiar doesn't work as well as it should, on a deep level the brain seems to want to enforce the familiar. the reason may be something like "No lions or lizards have ate me yet, If I stick to these habits the lions and lizards will continue to not eat me" | [13:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | As far as overcoming the resistance, what works best for me is actively making myself do the thing I want to see become a habit for at least a couple weeks. After the third week or so I may still need the occasional reminder, but the mushy stuff up in the skull will lose its resistance to the new habit. | [13:31] |
| BingoBoingo: | Because despite doing the thing outside the routine, no lions nor lizards ate. | [13:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | After a few times the primitive alarm sorta resistance in the brain will be muted, but… killing it takes more time. | [13:33] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Okay so that sounds like the normal bad-habits-die-hard bug that applies to almost everything one does, not something specific to writing. | [13:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I'm more along the lines of "new habits scare the brain" | [13:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | And it may not be very specific to writing at all. | [13:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | In this case it isn't so much bad habits that have to go. It's getting settled into new habits while against an increasingly resistant brain evermore confident that preserving the status quo is the safest thing it can do. | [13:38] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: hmm okay I'll try looking at the general problem w/ sticking to something new from the 'new habits scare the brain' perspective. I'm surprised I haven't considered it that way before. | [13:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | The basics of this point have been on Trilema since forever, but it has taken me quite some time to digest it into this. | [13:40] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: got a feeling my review's a bit too skimpy, and I've failed to get next week's plan in at all. I'll plan to do one on the road and publish as soon as I'm able. | [13:43] |
| jfw: | Off to catch my flight now. I might drop in if network cooperates, otherwise, till Tuesday! | [13:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | Safe travels! | [13:46] |
| whaack: | jfw: have fun in Uruguay, btw I never mentioned – the css on your blog is lookin sharp indeed! it's a nice touch for the great content that's being produced (although I admit I haven't found much time to fully read your articles.) | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012185 – or simply the fact that any change is by definition more costly than no change; resistance of the medium applies when yourself are the medium too. | [15:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 13:29:43 BingoBoingo: I don't know any reason the brain resists other than it seems to be biased towards the familiar. Despite active recognition the familiar doesn't work as well as it should, on a deep level the brain seems to want to enforce the familiar. the reason may be something like "No lions or lizards have ate me yet, If I stick to these habits the lions and lizards will continue to not eat me" | [15:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: ty for the simple cut | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | most welcome :) | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-06-Dec-2019#1012195 – heh, your feelings are out to save you this time! | [15:12] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-06 13:43:15 jfw: diana_coman: got a feeling my review's a bit too skimpy, and I've failed to get next week's plan in at all. I'll plan to do one on the road and publish as soon as I'm able. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | safe travels and have fun in Uruguay jfw ! | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | on standyby awaiting news jfw has arrived in the oriental republic | [22:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I spent just about the entire day finishing the rough draft of my meeting with Adam. I know this is quite a problem. There may have been more spinning, although I can't say I was too hung up on what to include/not to include today. Part of the issue may have been I made the article too long, right now it is at 1,600 words. I moved my rough draft of my article on rereading to Sunday, and my Odyssey reading b | [23:55] |
| whaack: | lock to tomorrow. I am going to leave the revision of the article as the last task i do tomorrow. I am worried it will drag on and _again_ eat up my other tasks. | [23:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 05 Dec 2019
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Dec-2019#1011900 – thanks diana_coman. re "how secure", sure – expected number of clock cycles required to break (collision, preimage etc.) | [00:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-04 15:27:38 diana_coman: jfw: hah, certainly makes for less tense reading! can confirm too that it builds and matches expected hashes; further than that, the code will require some pen-and-paper reading though; re "as secure as SHA3", do you have some sort of "how secure" measurement at all? | [00:42] |
| jfw: | granted there's no proof on lower bounds there, but upper bounds can be found. | [00:43] |
| jfw: | In thinking about the sponge construction, I had convinced myself that 2^capacity was such an upper bound. I'm struggling to precisely recall why, perhaps I should try to have it out as a proof | [00:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I did roughly 9hrs of saltmines and 30 mins of journaling. I practiced the guitar for 1hr as well. An expected-unexpected task was I had to exchange the gas cylinder for my stove, which took a little bit over 45mins. | [00:51] |
| jfw: | but if so, smaller capacity is less secure in that sense. However I have no idea whether larger capacity might make it less secure in some other way (more frequent iteration of the permutation 'leaking bits' or something) | [00:53] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-04-Dec-2019#1011901 – interesting, it was deliberate (e.g I ended up with same for yrc genesis); I'd been thinking of each V 'project' as its own namespace for patches just as with the files in its tree | [00:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-04 15:27:54 diana_coman: jfw: that "genesis.vpatch" is a horribly-chosen name. | [00:57] |
| jfw: | or are main.c or Makefile also horrible names? | [00:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: eh, re genesis vs main/makefile – don't mix stuff there really; the idea with V overall is of building yggdrasil not just having tree-stumps all over the place (and all of them starting at genesis because ofc!) | [03:36] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2018-10-15 mircea_popescu: kinda the fucking point, building yggdrasil over here. | [03:36] |
| diana_coman: | how do you reason anyway re similarity genesis-main/makefile? because "genesis" is whatever vpatch is the root of a tree but not really substantially different in any way from another vpatch otherwise. | [03:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a normal saltmines working day,huh. | [03:43] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012033 – this is pretty much the core trouble – there is no clear proof of "this is indeed more secure than that"; you can pick and choose various criteria, sure, but what they mean exactly is not that clearcut. | [03:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 00:53:58 jfw: but if so, smaller capacity is less secure in that sense. However I have no idea whether larger capacity might make it less secure in some other way (more frequent iteration of the permutation 'leaking bits' or something) | [03:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it was normal indeed. no ocean waves or ladies over for coffee to interrupt the grind at least. | [10:36] |
| dorion_road: | awoke to a thin, sticky blanket of wet snow to shovel. good for snowballs, not sledding. | [11:38] |
| dorion_road: | I'd appreciate an !!up in #t when someone's available. | [11:39] |
| whaack: | misses skiing. | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha, can't have it all? | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: !!up done. | [11:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha well not all at once. I would love to go skiing on a trip to Europe | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | quoth Eulora: can't have it all – where would you put it? | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so …plan that trip? you do have quite a lot of stuff to sort out first though, iirc. | [11:43] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Aha that reminds me also of some George Carlin skit MP linked to once about how life can be seen as a game of figuring out where to put your stuff. The eulora servers are back up, correct? I need to get in there if not just to read the MOTD's | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the game server is up ; the webpage is not up though; do you have the client? | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | eulora is more of "figure out how to hold on long enough & make the most of it" | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I do have one installed on this computer…but I believe it is out of date / I didn't wind up getting it working. The last working client I had is on a desktop that didn't make it to Costa Rica. | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | iirc there is no incompatibility problem as such ie at most you need to update the server IP. | [11:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Towards the end of January I will plan a trip to Europe. I have a more immediate need to plan a border run by ~January 18th. Which prompts the question: jfw and dorion_road: are either of you available to meet for dinner/coffee/etc somewhere in Panama City between now and Jan 18th? My mother is visiting Costa Rica between Jan 5th – Jan 12th I believe, so those dates will not work. | [11:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay, ls -l tells me that I set up Eulora in 2015…I remember having trouble getting the client to run and ./euclient gives me 'cannot execute binary file'. If I find some extra time I will try to get the game installed on this machine, otherwise I'll wait until I have my new comp built. | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that sounds like some mismatch there ie you have it compiled with something other than you have running on the machine currently. | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you have a eulora account already? | [12:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | so then possibly a recompile + change of server IP is all it takes. | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, not a priority atm. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: this para is not very clear at all if one doesn't import already quite a lot; just re-phrase it really. | [14:03] |
| jfw: | hmm ok, as an update? | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: just change it in there to make it clearer, not an issue. | [14:05] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012039 – I recall discussion of using the hash of a genesis patch to identify the trees it creates, suggesting to me that the genesis should contain some unique context | [14:08] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 03:37:56 diana_coman: how do you reason anyway re similarity genesis-main/makefile? because "genesis" is whatever vpatch is the root of a tree but not really substantially different in any way from another vpatch otherwise. | [14:08] |
| diana_coman: | I can't figure out which discussion you are referencing there, hm; but even as you state it there, that would be something done from outside *with* a patch considered "genesis"; basically any vpatch has a hash anyway, could equally well use that to identify the (sub-)trees that start from it, no? | [14:10] |
| jfw: | also probable I don't quite grasp the overall vision. ATM what I see does look more like a forest of separate projects than one big tree | [14:10] |
| jfw: | let me see if I can find it. | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it is; partly because parts are still missing (most glaringly moving files) | [14:12] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-06 diana_coman: mircea_popescu: not as far as I know; it was always *not done* but always popping up in people's memory as "working"; except every time I wanted to *move* a file rather than have it del/add, it turned out that …no. | [14:12] |
| jfw: | the discussion I recalled is hereabouts | [14:16] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-06-13 mircea_popescu: mod6 the part where each press should end up collected in the /genesis-hash/ dir is settled, i thought ? | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the way I read that is that a v-press from a leaf that has several possible roots should end up in as many dirs as you have roots – ie as many presses effectively – with each dir named based on the hash of the corresponding root (admiteddly I didn't go back fully to see maybe there's more I don't recall on that older convo) | [14:21] |
| diana_coman: | ie not literally "genesis-hash" but "root1Name-its-hash" of sorts. | [14:21] |
| jfw: | I'm still finding the linked convo pretty confusing fwiw, a couple different aspects being discussed possibly. | [14:25] |
| jfw: | I think the "several possible roots" scenario is ruled out by the manifest | [14:25] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it is not very clear and moreover it's also a bit old by now so some things have changed, most notably – yes – the manifest part. | [14:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: anyways, now you basically give people a lot of work to do to catch up with your code that's finally published; I suppose that balances at least the writing-pain of sorts but I still feel like poking you in the eye for keeping silent for so long. | [14:29] |
| jfw: | More directly to the main.c/Makefile question, if patches are all existing in some unified tree (though I'm as yet unsure quite how that would work), top-level names like that could come in conflict and perhaps each 'project' needs its own subdir, as seen for example in trb and mp-wp | [14:30] |
| jfw: | winces, rubs eye | [14:31] |
| diana_coman: | I think that and similars will get clarified only as the thing finally gets moving towards that yggdrasil; so yes, not clear yet and it's been stuck for ages too. | [14:32] |
| jfw: | alright, small steps then. Think I should regrind that 'keksum' genesis to include name? Could just rename the file too but the name is also in the manifest. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | please do, yes; it's anyway less pain now before anyone else signed it. | [14:36] |
| jfw: | aite. | [14:36] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: Better? And hey the select link still works. | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | better indeed. | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you have your dates for the Dec/Jan holidays? | [15:00] |
| jfw: | sadly not certain yet | [15:01] |
| jfw: | (whaack: ^) | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | kind of weird the sort of uncertainties you choose to live with :P | [15:02] |
| jfw: | I think I need to figure it out today really. | [15:02] |
| jfw: | get it booked, rather. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | sounds sensible indeed. | [15:04] |
| jfw: | I hear the 'weird' too, heh. | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | :P | [15:04] |
| whaack: | jfw: alright, I will likely go to Nicaragua and save my trip to Panama for late March / early April. If I do a Panama trip for this visa's border run, the most realistic dates are cerca January 15th. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | vaguely hopes whaack does border runs on some proper motorbike at least. | [15:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that sounds like my mode of travel i'd be using if i wanted to avoid the men in uniform with stamps | [15:11] |
| jfw: | whaack: pretty sure both dorion_road and I will be back by the 15th fwiw. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: otherwise why… run, yes. | [15:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: If you fly anywhere, since you'll probably hub through panama that'll probably be an opportunity to take a couple days there too. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I suppose you can equally visit BingoBoingo while he is still in Uruguay. | [15:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | For however long I'm still here… | [15:15] |
| jfw: | hey, a bitcoin foundation server is still for sale iirc… | [15:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | It is. Tengo un Dell PowerEdge 610 con 2x 2.67 Ghz Intel E5640 CPUs, 48 GB RAM, 2 fuentes de alimentación y 2 fuentes de alimentación adicionales. | [15:16] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: well, I like the excuse to quickly plan a Panama+Uruguay trip. I'll consider this seriously the next few days. | [15:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | Well, jfw will be able to offer some thoughts on Uruguay in the very near future. | [15:20] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-05-Dec-2019#1012094 << the week of the 16th is still good for visiting vt. | [17:48] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-05 15:02:59 jfw: I think I need to figure it out today really. | [17:48] |
| whaack: | huzzah two days after arriving and my UPS is paying dividends. I am connected via backup internet running on power from my ups. Looks like Costa Rica is having an extended rainy season. Now to figure out how to make it stop beeping… | [17:51] |
| dorion_road: | whaack nice, good for you. good luck repressing the beeps. | [18:00] |
| whaack: | dorion_road: All I had to do was click any button on my APC. I read online though that some apc's don't come with an off button for the beeps and I got pretty worried. | [18:01] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i used to have a series of those. desolder wick cures. | [18:12] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: I may have to do that if I can't figure out how to turn it off completely. I don't need to be woken up at night to be told my power is out. | [18:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Since it runs lead-acid batteries, there are situations where your health might benefit from some beeping. | [18:17] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: ~those~ ( overheat, short, etc ) tend to silent.. | [18:19] |
| BingoBoingo: | I was thinking more along the lines of pre-mature failing battery gas, but probably silent too. Should however smell. | [18:20] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Hm okay, I will take action if the battery starts to smell. Are there other best practices / safety tips I should know about for this brick? | [18:22] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: (unless yer a miser) — 1x/2y battery swap. | [18:24] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Just if you smell sewer gas or the battery starts bulging remove either it or yourself from the residence as fast as you can. Like out the window fast. But yes, usually yearly battery changes will take the risk of this to almost zero. | [18:25] |
| asciilifeform: | if miser — 1x/3y. beyond that, box becomes 'decorative' | [18:25] |
| whaack: | hm okay. I would not put a bomb in my house to save ~50 yearly | [18:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | 1 year is the sorta interval that should give you a wide margin of safety. | [18:41] |
#ossasepia Logs for 04 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: This message comes later than it should, because I met people on the beach that I had over for a couple of hours after my surf session. I know as I type this I should not have had them over since it was during the prime morning hours and I wouldn't just dip out of a normal job. With that said, I finished 8hr of saltmining and 30 mins of journalin | [01:34] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-18 21:20:36 diana_coman: after all, if you were working somewhere, you wouldn't just nip out because they want you to go to the mechanic, would you? | [01:34] |
| whaack: | g. I also received the monitor+ups and set them up. The UPS is giving me a 'Site Wiring' warning so I need to investigate what may be wrong with my outlets here. To do this I need to first pay a debt and learn about home circuitry in the general. | [01:34] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I rather expect the wiring is a mess there and that's what's wrong but yes, you'll need to look at it, certainly. | [09:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The clues of the faulty wiring have been here all along. There's two lights I have here where light 1 needs to be switched on for it to be possible to switch on light 2. | [09:47] |
| diana_coman: | lmao | [09:49] |
| diana_coman: | you clearly get nudged to pay your basic electronics debts :P | [09:50] |
| whaack: | I was confused at first and thought the bulbs must be dead so I came back from the hardware store with a few extras in addition to the spares I had already gotten. | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did you get yourself a multimeter too? | [09:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | There are some horror stories here too. Met a fellow staying in an AirBNB apartment that… ran on a single 5 amp breaker | [09:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No, I will add one to the list. | [09:57] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: lol. My understanding is that would just be annoying and always breaking, is it unsafe as well? | [10:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well, depends on how much stuff runs on electricity in the place. It isn't inherently unsafe, but it is a tempation do unsafe things. | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | by the time all problems are actually addressed, whaack will build his own house in CR :D | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | (which is not as surprising as it might seem to the naive) | [10:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | The only firm conclusion of the real estate exploration here was that to own property the only things worth considering are new construction apartments priced to move or… have new construction built to your own spec. | [10:17] |
| jfw: | dammit, another monster article. Well I hope it's enjoyed. | [13:57] |
| jfw: | I'll need to focus elsewhere for now. | [13:59] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: very interesting massaged keccaktron. will confirm that it builds and matches output of diana_coman's when set to -c256 . | [14:01] |
| asciilifeform: | err, -s256 | [14:01] |
| jfw: | ty asciilifeform. The thinking on that naming is "s" for "sponge capacity", saving "c" for ye olde -c "check". | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: hah, certainly makes for less tense reading! can confirm too that it builds and matches expected hashes; further than that, the code will require some pen-and-paper reading though; re "as secure as SHA3", do you have some sort of "how secure" measurement at all? | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that "genesis.vpatch" is a horribly-chosen name. | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you have some unclose footnotes /other tags in your review and so half of it ends up as a footnote; will you fix it so I can have a proper look at it? | [15:29] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman fixed, thank you. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | looks | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: to what extent did the "specify deadline" approach work to improve anything there? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | to be precise, deadlines were supposed to help structure the work and make communications more reliable | [15:50] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman it caused me to create a better schedule, not good enough, but prevented the task dragging on longer. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | if you mean it would have been otherwise even worse, I can see it, yes. | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | otherwise though, those deadlines were clearly not enough/not well chosen; which of those? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: with those days previews/reviews, it sounded like you actually already had some experience with planning but now it's not that clear – was it only since coming here that you did this sort of thing? | [15:53] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I think they were not enough because there wasn't enough detail on the subtasks. And then I spent on unplanned actions. | [15:55] |
| dorion_road: | the inexperience in writing and the complexity of articles I tackled also contributed to the deadlines not being well chosen. | [15:57] |
| dorion_road: | we touched on this when you gave the rule of thumb of doubling the time you think it'll take. | [15:58] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 16:54:26 diana_coman: dorion: hm, ok; as a basic thing though, esp if it's something new /you have no experience with, the hard rule is pretty much "estimate the time and then DOUBLE it", lol | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | yes. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: did you ever plan similarly your time before? | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | (similarly aka to same level of detail) | [16:00] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman on the experience making plans. I have some experience, but not with a good guide. | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | mind giving me a summary as to what you've got/learn from that experience? there are quite a few things I see there but it helps to know where you're coming from on this. | [16:01] |
| dorion_road: | a lot of the plans I've written for myself have been detailed, but they have largely been private these past couple years. | [16:02] |
| diana_coman: | private wouldn't be a problem in itself; the question is to what extent the events fit the plans. | [16:03] |
| diana_coman: | or hm, did you ever check that? lol. | [16:05] |
| dorion_road: | I did check, and I've made adjustments over time, but have a lot of strengthening yet. | [16:07] |
| dorion_road: | on what I've learned, do you mean what I learned writing the latest article or what I've learned through my experience making plans ? | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: through your experience making plans. | [16:08] |
| dorion_road: | well, the first would be how much more meaningful life is when one plans and reflects on his plans. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | I'd rather think that has more to do with reflection than with plans :P but good for you anyway. | [16:10] |
| dorion_road: | when your plans are more ambitious, every minutes and everything you have to do has to be considered, like when and for how long you spend time eating. | [16:11] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman hah. perhaps. but my plans have always been born during some reflection time :) | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: hm; and do you enjoy that "everything you have to do has to be considered, like when and for how long you spend time eating" ? | [16:15] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman to continue: when you're approaching a new problem or skill, try to find a guide who can help keep your plans in check with reality. | [16:15] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I enjoy it in the sense that it seems to me I'm making my best effort at getting the things done I want to see done. | [16:17] |
| dorion_road: | I also enjoy to relax, it seems responsible plans have relaxing time baked in too. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | that for sure but there's more to it there. | [16:18] |
| dorion_road: | my 97yo grandmother made the comment this weekend, "Boy, you really know how to relax. Every bone in your body looks calm." | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | "I want to see done" is incomplete as such; there's "I want to see done at ANY COST" and "I want to see done within this/that cost" | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that's a good point. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; was she correct at least? | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | she was at that time, yes. :) | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear it :) | [16:19] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman then the planning should always try to score cost/benefit ? | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | getting back to your review of the planning, on Thursday there's the "I had originally planned to have the JWRD article drafted and ready for Jacob to review here. I didn't manage that" – what happened there? ie was it just not enough time or did you get sidetracked or what exactly? | [16:22] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman letting the Panama article get away from me pushed the JWRD article start time. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: not necessarily; it's simply that there's planning and planning; ie "at all costs" means one thing and that thing is mainly: ~everything else gets cut to the bone, until the main thing is done; the "within this/that" means that the plan will be itself more leniently made. | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | not everything is really worth (and even effective) planning at the same level of detail either; | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman when I sat down to write it, I didn't find myself sidetracked, especially less than the Panama article. It did take longer than the 8h I had allocated, so not enough buffer to begin with either. | [16:25] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman makes sense on the modes of planning given the stakes. | [16:26] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you know, part of the reason why I asked you re past experience with planning is that otherwise you don't strike me as very… how to even say it, easily planned/plan-fitted; you clearly are/can be disciplined, yes but that's a different thing. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, back to your plan and review there: first thing is that unplanned stuff is a given really but you failed to make any provision for it, to start with. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know if this is because until joining here you found reality way more ..predictable or something (hah, did you?) | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | but even if you did, that was just luck :P | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | so, good plans are *not* extremely rigid and to-the-second-known-upfront | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | because that's just planning to fail really | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | how was it, failing to plan is planning to fail; but – adds diana – so is too-rigidly planning the unknown future. | [16:31] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman for sure my life has consisted of many unplanned turns, but yes provisioning for the unplanned is something I need to strengthen. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | btw, this was mentioned before (if perhaps not all that clearly in this respect): http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-13-Nov-2019#1010216 | [16:33] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-13 16:56:39 diana_coman: cool; nothing stops you otherwise from having a lengthy list to chew through in that happy case when you finally finish faster than you thought you would; but way better to do that then to constantly end up late. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | ie do NOT plan every hour of your day; because if you plan it ALL, you will inevitably end up snowballing stuff at the first unplanned event. | [16:33] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman as for the detailed, yet not rigid approach, I think I can improve in thinking through the details prior and building in explicit buffer for both learning what I don't know and the unplanned that's sure to manifest. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | sure, have "time permitting" stuff in the queue to fill those buffers should the world turn incredibly tame that day, but that's an unexpected piece of good fortune, not the expected turn of events. | [16:34] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that's for sure a helpful shift in perspective. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | the learning/new part simply means that you double/triple/whatever your estimate because you clearly can't possibly estimate it correctly when you are not even sure wtf that thing is; then there is the above and the expecting-the-unexpected that comes on top and yes, it's more of a perspective shift indeed. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | basically this lack of space for the unplanned is what threw off your week starting with Monday there. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | btw you have a broken link on "update" in #o on Wed in there. | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: the other significant part is that you really seem to plan more on the "I'd love to do this" than "it'll take this much", lol | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | which makes you extremely pleasant to work with in first instance, granted, but doesn't help you otherwise a lot. | [16:40] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman fixed the link, ty. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: overall, the plan (and especially the initial plan) is really meant to be a roadmap, not a straightjacket (and I seriously think it would hinder rather than help you if you make it all that rigid); so plan it as a flexible thing to start with: a guide to make sure you don't waste time, but not something so fixed that it can't/shouldn't adapt to significant changes as they happen. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | and honestly, if anyone started planning my time on meals, I'd go nuts. | [16:43] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman yea, I'm starting to see with the writing generally the benefit of the it'll take this much approach. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you also clearly need and benefit from time to process things; don't just discard/ignore that. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | it might seem "not productive" but that's not true. | [16:45] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman that makes sense on the adaptable guide method. that and more humility on the time it'll take me will pay off. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | you don't really do humble all that well, do you. | [16:47] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman you know sometimes other people want a time from you for the meals. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | fuck them? | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:48] |
| dorion_road: | well that's before the meal. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, a 24 old me avoided French for lunch because with them it would take 1 hour ffs. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | and then the coffee break! | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, the point is not that it should take 4 hours or something but simply that whatever you do gets its proper time and attention, that's all. | [16:49] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman on the processing: yes time helps me with that and no I don't see how I could discard it. if you can believe it the processing I've done has helped humble me from where I was.. | [16:49] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman "A place for everything and every thing in it's place" | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | I can quite more-than-believe it, yes :) | [16:50] |
| dorion_road: | knew she could :) | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | ha! now to next week planning: how are you going to go about it | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | you do know more than you think and then at the same time you think you know more than you do :P | [16:52] |
| dorion_road: | I'd tend to agree. On this week's approach, start with splitting into "at all costs" and "within this/that". | [16:54] |
| dorion_road: | then get most detailed on the requirements for the all costs and lay them on the schedule first. | [16:56] |
| dorion_road: | whatever buffer/unplanned time I make on the first pass, double it, since that itself is a weakness. | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | plan for the unplanned; double the unknowns; DO adjust it if/when/as needed rather than keeping quiet like a mouse yes? | [16:57] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, updates on the progress for sure. seems like the EOD reports are helping whaack. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | that doesn't mean they'd help you; figure out what/if it helps you, don't just reach for whatever is around; if you say it helps you, then go ahead but do think it through, ok? | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | and now: what part of your plan did I mess up with this long discussion today? :p | [17:00] |
| dorion_road: | ok, I will think it through. | [17:00] |
| dorion_road: | I had follow through planned. but haven't yet exercised today. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | heh, ruining your fitness then, I see. | [17:01] |
| dorion_road: | though there may be snow to shovel today, but alas, only cold. | [17:02] |
| dorion_road: | thought* | [17:02] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman if there's one thing I have to lean on it's my fitness ;) | [17:02] |
| dorion_road: | I'm going to run basketball practice with local high school tomorrow, we'll see how it goes, but that muscle memory takes a long time to die. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | hah; /me had school kill all basketball enjoyment, lol. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: any further questions re planning? does it all make sense/fit somewhere? | [17:05] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman no further questions, it makes sense, thanks for the feedback and I'll work it in. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | re think it through, know that it's not just that/here; it struck me that you have quite the trouble processing the not-so-sunny side of things really and that's most likely the actual cause of your long deep-freeze too; but that can perhaps wait. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | cool then; (hopefully with some snow soon too :P ). | [17:08] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, the not-so-sunny side of things had my attention for a several years of my 20s. I made a lot of changes and have thawed, but for sure was part of the deep-freeze. sneak peak in the fabled outlines to be filled. | [17:09] |
| dorion_road: | there's been snow on the ground since I've been here, just no new blanket to today. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | was seriously looking around for places-with-snow-to-go-to-already-ffs | [17:11] |
| dorion_road: | has been enjoying the cold and snow, believe it or not. | [17:11] |
| dorion_road: | heh. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | why not; extreme heat is way more…festering, anyway. | [17:12] |
| dorion_road: | yeah, at least you can dress for the cold and light a fire. | [17:17] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman I left a comment that's in moderation http://ossasepia.com/2019/12/01/the-success-of-romanian-moft/#comment-7145 | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | published. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | and it does look like the one I was searching for there, indeed, thank you; will see if it's the one MP had in mind too. | [17:46] |
| dorion_road: | cool, my pleasure. | [17:53] |
| whaack: | lobbes: erm following the #t thread… at least in mp's example that is a string i.e. alphabetical comparison. you can't use < or > to sort dates unless you have YYYY-MM-DD format or are converting the date string into some sort of date type. | [22:07] |
| whaack: | s/to sort dates/to sort strings representing dates/ | [22:10] |
| lobbes: | whaack: technically I was converting a unix timestamp (e.g.1459468727) via e.g. line_time = time.gmtime(float(1459468727)) | [22:12] |
| lobbes: | then I was running that through time.strftime(\%d \%b \%Y, line_time) | [22:13] |
| lobbes: | which, you're right, converts it to string huh | [22:14] |
| whaack: | lobbes: okay but if you do the comparison on the string returned from time.strftime you are going to have the same problem. | [22:14] |
| whaack: | mhm | [22:14] |
| lobbes: | whaack ty, this makes sense to me now at least haha. Was indeed an implementation issue on my end | [22:15] |
| whaack: | lobbes: np. | [22:16] |
#ossasepia Logs for 03 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report : I fixed the crontab issue and setup apache/php on my toliet box + wrote a script that takes the the backup data and recreates my blog locally. I can confirm now with much more confidence that my blog is being backed up safely. I spent the rest of the day editing/finishing my Conrad post. That took much longer than the predicted 3hr – I spent closer to 6.5 hours. I will use extra time during my saltmine day | [00:02] |
| whaack: | s to tackle the 2h journaling block I had scheduled for today. | [00:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the backup sounds finally fine; re writing heh, keep that in mind at next "estimate" of timing, you know? | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do apply that mp-wp fix to keep trackbacks out of comments | [05:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack dorion_road you might want to increase the number of comments and posts shown in the sidebar, as 5 is rather little when there's quite the discussion going on; it's an easy change too. | [05:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mhm I thought 3h was generous because I thought my article was already completed – but on reread I saw it needed major restructuring. I will apply the mp-wp fix within the next two days, for now I increased the number of comments/posts (btw dorion_road that's just a setting on the dashboard under appearances->widgets) | [10:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I'm going to go surf for a bit, not an escape I swear, the waves look great and I hardly left the house once yesterday / could use some exercise. | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: enjoy! | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is this keccak background the result of 1.5 hours + 0.5hrs planning? | [15:25] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: closer to 4 hours :( | [15:29] |
| jfw: | in part I ended up doing some digging despite having initially wanted to keep scope to what I could do right then without it | [15:32] |
| jfw: | …so I guess I can't really be said to have decided on scope after all | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: aha; it even read a bit like "he's not FULLY decided on which way to go and which way to not go"; hence my question; hmm. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | what was that digging for/in/about? | [15:35] |
| jfw: | footnotes i-iv mainly | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | ah, do you mean it was time consuming finding the exact references there? (ie you knew what you wanted /that they existed but just had to spend time to find them?) | [15:37] |
| jfw: | yes, though I didn't know exactly what I was looking for | [15:38] |
| jfw: | had vague recollections. | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | were the recollections enough to write the text though? ie could have written it first and then time the reference-digging separately; and yes, it's an ever growing pain to find refs around here though I expect in your cases here you had it even harder as it wasn't all that fresh in memory, hm. | [15:41] |
| jfw: | I didn't remember the year or the context so couldn't have written that second sentence at least | [15:43] |
| jfw: | I could have left it a 'todo' and then timed the rest separately | [15:45] |
| jfw: | Which would have given me the choice of whether to then do it on this pass | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes; other than that, the added trouble you are having there is the silence-gap that you are effectively trying to bridge while writing but inevitably retro-actively and so you get both the split and the resulting tension between "I'm talking of my work that I did alone" vs "but I *was* reading the logs and informed by it" | [15:48] |
| jfw: | I felt such tension indeed. | [15:50] |
| jfw: | That and the lack of freshness of refs would be among the debts of not writing mentioned in yesterday's | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | eh, the debt there has also the lack of your own writings to rely on otherwise; but more to the point, why not simply write it as what it was aka "I worked on this on my own (but reading the logs/this/that)"? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | you don't *have to* write it as if it was already part of the forum or anything; you are bringing it forwards now and people want to see it, yes, but the history is what it is, what. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | gah sorry, phone call distraction. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | k. | [15:54] |
| jfw: | back. | [16:05] |
| jfw: | Re debt also meaning lack of ready context – yep. | [16:06] |
| jfw: | hm, I wanted to include the context from the forum since it was to some degree informing my actions, though I was not a part of it | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, include it but precisely as what it was – a reference only. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | ie focus on your actions ie tell it from your perspective since that's how it was developed anyway + simply add footnotes/references when/where you used the logs/blogs/whatevers since that's how they played in anyway, isn't it? | [16:09] |
| jfw: | as in stating that more explicitly? yeah I guess that's what you said. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | as in keeping to the one perspective that matches anyway; for one thing it helps by reducing (or getting rid of) that tension anyway. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | the freshness problem would come up again in that I'm not certain when/where/how I read what things; I have some notes and chat but that'd be a dig as well | [16:11] |
| jfw: | but I think I get it as far as keeping to the one perspective. | [16:11] |
| diana_coman: | heh, you are there your own historian so you get the double pleasure of cursing those imbecilles who didn't document properly + being cursed :D | [16:12] |
| jfw: | aha. | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | alternatively, you can of course just… admit and live with that, as "not worth recovering" or something, I suppose; your call, either way. | [16:14] |
| jfw: | I'm rather prefering to recover what I reasonably can, as I go, but yes. | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | well then, if it helps, I'd rather read the recovered history than no history too, certainly. | [16:18] |
| jfw: | thanks. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Dec-2019#1011822 – ahem, did you do the re-read properly before this stage that was supposed to be just final review? | [16:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-03 10:36:59 whaack: diana_coman: mhm I thought 3h was generous because I thought my article was already completed – but on reread I saw it needed major restructuring. I will apply the mp-wp fix within the next two days, for now I increased the number of comments/posts (btw dorion_road that's just a setting on the dashboard under appearances->widgets) | [16:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes on Sunday I finished the rough draft, and then without having a time gap I reread and revised it. Then the next day I went for the final review. For this final review I had planned to make only word choice revisions / small edits. But I believed that the article needed a structural revision. So I did some major edits, and then I took a break and did another final revision. | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for starters, it needs a time gap because otherwise you won't see as much as you could after a break. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | for the other, if you end up with major revision, then yes, it will need another pass, it's a sort of back-to-step-2 indeed. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | basically your "final review" was more like first revision really. | [16:34] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I knew that it needed another "take break then revise" yesterday since I started with a major revision and not just some edits. My rough draft on Saturday was a completion of the steps up to '…obvious mistakes, mispellings, etc' http://ztkfg.com/2019/10/v-study-part-1-vpatches-and-vdiff/comment-page-1/#comment-47 (point 2) . | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: For now it may be best to assume I need to do two break + revisions as I build up my writing muscles. This was also not my first rough draft I first tossed out some completely different articles as well. | [16:42] |
| whaack: | s/some completely different articles/a draft of a different article <— sorry there was only one and it was not complete. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: plan it like that then, with 2 passes and see how it goes, sure. | [16:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ Updated my plan for the week to take this into account for my next article. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [16:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Dec-2019#1011821 << thanks, I made articles 10 and comments 15. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-03 05:44:48 diana_coman: whaack dorion_road you might want to increase the number of comments and posts shown in the sidebar, as 5 is rather little when there's quite the discussion going on; it's an easy change too. | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | works. | [17:24] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks for the nudge and also the trackback fix. | [17:57] |
| dorion_road: | I'd appreciate an !!up in #t | [17:57] |
#ossasepia Logs for 02 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: I finished the review from last week + published the plan for next week, completed a rough draft of An Outpost of Progress article, and did a 1 hour session reading The Odyssey. I also did a short review of my backup scripts and found that they are not working – my most recent blog article is not backed up. The issue is that my ssh key is being rejected when rsync tries to connect to my account solely made | [01:02] |
| whaack: | for storing backups of the blog. I believe the first time crontab fired the script that syncs from digitalocean it worked and then the script failed every subsequent time. | [01:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, you should always run the crontab manually too as a basic test before letting it be; pfft. | [04:08] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, fix it, obviously. | [04:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well yes I ran the scripts manually before I put them on a crontab timer. I believe I also scheduled the crontab to fire a few minutes after the point in time I set them up, to make sure the crontab itself was running. | [10:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: In any case I will look into it the problem and fix it right now. | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then what changed and moreover did it actually do what was expected that crontab-test run or didn't you check the result or what happened there? | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [10:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Either I threw a pebble and did not thoroughly verify that the script worked, which truthfully is the most likely case, or after I set it up the first day I tweaked some setting on digitalocean / digitalocean tweaked some setting for me. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, did sound like a pebble really. | [10:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The problem is that crontab runs in a separate environment that by default is not set to used the ssh key my terminal has access to. So my script works manually but not when it is run via crontab. Since there were no changes to the files on my blog since i tested it manually, I didn't notice that rsync wasn't working. If i had checked my terminal mail and looked at the crontabs output, or checked the timestamps of file | [10:17] |
| whaack: | s, I would have caught this bug. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | eh, whaack, being beaten *by someone who knows what they are doing*; otherwise it's just broken bones, not growth, lolz. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: "a bit" there might be the understatement of the day; but if that was indeed apres apres-ski, I'm rather positively impressed with the result anyway. | [10:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Probably not something too important to address but so you're aware the graph of insanity in your article http://ossasepia.com/2017/02/18/the-open-sores-of-monkey-code/ goes all over the sidebar and can't be clicked / doesn't have a readable resolution. | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: myeah, I noticed there are now quite a few of the old images that got messed up by the switch to the mp-wp theme, ugh; it's somewhere down at the bottom of the list but thanks anyway. | [11:17] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Dec-2019#1011762 << right, I understand there's many bytes of settling yet to do. with that being said, I'll take satisfaction in generating positively impressive results. | [11:31] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-02 10:52:01 diana_coman: dorion_road: "a bit" there might be the understatement of the day; but if that was indeed apres apres-ski, I'm rather positively impressed with the result anyway. | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why not just sign the archive anyway? | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | for gales initial release I mean. | [15:16] |
| dorion_road: | jfw mind answering spyked's question about your build by hand X11 recipe. does it produce a statically linked X11 ? or dynamic linked musl ? | [15:24] |
| dorion_road: | (when you have the chance.) | [15:24] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hm, no strong reason I suppose. Large things are slow to get to my signing machine, but this isn't quite in that territory, I'm not typing base64 by hand or anything. | [15:53] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: will have a look, but in a word, that was dynamic, on gentoo | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw I enjoyed reading the gales files; esp after a CS dig, it makes for a refreshing crisp & don't-mess-my-shit read. | [15:58] |
| jfw: | glad to hear it | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | I certainly want to get to give it a try but it might be a while until I dig up some proper chunk of time for it. | [15:59] |
| jfw: | sure, and perhaps some further wrinkles will be ironed by then | [16:01] |
| diana_coman: | that would be great. | [16:01] |
| jfw: | The bootstrap process takes me (including compile times) around an hour, with a fair amount of the copy-pasting I caution against ;) | [16:02] |
| jfw: | I'm sure it would be scriptable with a bit more thinking through. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh; not bad to know it though; for starters it will surely take me longer because of poking-it-everywhere and anyway, it's your one hour after the few years on it. | [16:07] |
| jfw: | right. some of those gcc configure options are a devil, miss one and something breaks 10 steps down the line | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ahaha, that monitor & ups will be coming forever "tomorrow" ? | [16:20] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: heh yes. i called cococo to check on the order, and they said the delivery company they were using wanted to charge an extra 00 or so to take the road to my exact location, so they told the delivery company to leave the packages in a nearby city with one of their partners. The partner will deliver it either 'Tuesday or Wednesday' so it'll probably get here about Friday, really. | [16:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it was amazing how the guy was well informed about my order and knew the whole change of plans that had happened but never thought he should ping me and let me know. | [16:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Welcome to Latin America | [16:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thinking about the what do you mean here now, might be easier discussed here. How to put it… there was a kind of shift in framing of my thought process | [16:43] |
| jfw: | The tasks themselves consist mostly of thinking, and the planning of the tasks likewise … | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you mean the coding tasks? | [16:45] |
| jfw: | right. so, how was I to come up with a solid plan for what to code, before thinking further about what the code itself needs | [16:45] |
| jfw: | the two need to feed back into each other as I see it | [16:46] |
| jfw: | (spec and implementation) | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | sure, that's fine and just like with any other piece of writing: at times you need to do more thinking before being able to write | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | there's no interdiction on thinking about code, quite on the contrary, the writing of spec is after all a form of "thinking about code" too | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | the potentially iffy part is at "what the code itself needs" | [16:47] |
| jfw: | yeah should be more like, what the code needs to do to solve the problem, what inputs it therefore needs and so on | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | because code is not exactly having much to say about needs of its own; but to the extent that you mean "what is still needed for this to be useful", sure. | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | there, precisely :) | [16:49] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: and re "this does read more like a report than a review" – do you recall my past reviews being better in this regard – being more for myself? I'll go back over them and see if I can spot the difference. | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, they were certainly more actively reviewing, you know? it might be that you simply left this one so late + rushed it so much that there was no time & inclination to review anything but that's the effect already, not the root cause. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | whether you did them more for yourself or not, only you can tell really; my suggestion here was simply to point out to you that ultimately they are meant to be of most use to you really. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, I quite think you are not very fond of reporting otherwise :P | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: or are you? | [17:17] |
| jfw: | hm. I'm tending to think it's more the reviewing I'm not fond of and so got displaced by reporting when I had to grab at something | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | well, it is easier for sure so that part I can see, yes. | [17:18] |
| jfw: | so yeah, will do that rereading and bear in mind that they're for me. | [17:19] |
| jfw: | thx | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | cool, np. | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | btw jfw dorion_road (when you get back to your key, obv) you should at least rate one another really. | [17:32] |
| jfw: | yeah I need to get all my ratings in really | [17:32] |
| dorion_road: | BingoBoingo are you around to grant me an !!up in #t ? it'd be appreciated. | [18:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Sorry, can in a bit late on it. | [18:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | *came | [18:34] |
| dorion_road: | ty for the try BingoBoingo | [18:55] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-02-Dec-2019#1011772 << thanks for the follow up there. | [18:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-02 15:55:24 jfw: dorion_road: will have a look, but in a word, that was dynamic, on gentoo | [18:55] |
#ossasepia Logs for 01 Dec 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: missing EOD report from yesterday: I began my week review (but did not finish it), had my discussion with you in pms, and then met with Adam for the evening. | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds like a lot to still do today then. | [15:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | work well. | [15:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will do my best. I spent time this morning meditating on yesterday's conversation and journaling my thoughts. It was difficult and there was a good bit of spinning. Now I am putting my emotions aside and just buckling down for the rest of the day. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that could have waited for evening/tomorrow morning since the priority of the day is to get all that work done; anyways, it is what it is now. | [15:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ^ ack. | [15:41] |
#ossasepia Logs for 30 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: Today was a regression in terms of discipline. I did chores slowly and was overall distracted throughout the day. I also sinned and played guitar for 45 mins without having deserved it. What I got done was an article on the ordered computer parts + following up with cococo to make sure they were delivering my items. (The UPS and monitor should be here by Monday.) I also read the two trilema articles on [htt | [00:26] |
| whaack: | p://trilema.com/2017/re-reading-is-the-most-powerful-tool/][rereading] and the bicameral world at least twice each. Unsurprisingly I still need to spend more time to digest them. The main task that I flopped on was completing a rough draft of An Outpost of Progress. I sta | [00:26] |
| whaack: | rted editing something that I had already written, but it was clear looking at my output that my writing was school-like in that it didn't add a unique insight/perspective. The article in its current state is not too much more than me paraphrasing/plot summarizing Conrad. The other incomplete assignment I was supposed to do today was to read 30 pages of The Odyssey, I will make a small dent into that now before I go to bed. | [00:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011661 – if you mean the blog's own list in there, not really; onth I personally prefer that feedbot tells me about pingbacks too so I'd filter them for blog-publishing but not entirely out of the feed as such. | [04:36] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 20:49:54 jfw: diana_coman: the widget filtering part of http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/29/comments-filtering-for-mp-wp/ works for me, ty. Do you know if pingbacks are still supposed to be in the comments RSS? I recall some mention of this but can't seem to find it. | [04:36] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-01 mircea_popescu: anyways — i dun think a blog should list pingbacks either in the comment rss or in the "new comments" navbar. | [04:36] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011662 – I like it better too! | [04:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 21:16:32 jfw: ahh my blog looks so much nicer now. Main thing still missing afaik is titles-only archive. | [04:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011671 – this. | [04:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 21:42:16 BingoBoingo: jfw: I read that is he sees a lot of open questions that can prevent an OS from fitting in just one meg | [04:37] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011679 – why? | [04:38] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 00:26:55 whaack: diana_coman: EOD report: Today was a regression in terms of discipline. I did chores slowly and was overall distracted throughout the day. I also sinned and played guitar for 45 mins without having deserved it. What I got done was an article on the ordered computer parts + following up with cococo to make sure they were delivering my items. (The UPS and monitor should be here by Monday.) I also read the two trilema articles on [htt | [04:38] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: admitting is fine but not enough; why did you let it happen and what are you going to do so it doesn't continue? | [04:39] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: enjoy the festivities, it's weekend anyway. | [04:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not quite sure why I let myself lose focus. It's not as clear cut as the problem ~2 weeks ago where I had avoidance activities that were massive time sinks. That said, there is a bad habit I have ongoing that I nipped. The bad habit is listening to music with headphones while I do chores such as cooking. It's a bad habit because it prevents thinking during valuable free minutes. Another problem was that I started | [09:50] |
| whaack: | the day late. If you index my awake hours from hour 0 to hour 15 then my peak brain activity is during hour 1 to hour 7. Yesterday I didn't take full advantage of those morning hours and did most of my work in the evening. | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there's music and music really – some more helpful for thinking and some less so really but at any rate… even cooking requires thinking, lolz. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: note also that if you give in to old patterns, you'll just get back to them, it's how it works. | [10:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the music was of the less thinking variety, also listening to music via headphones rather than speakers is much more mind-numbing. | [10:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I know that giving in to old patterns means I'll get back to them. But I don't know of a concrete 'old pattern' I am getting back into in this case other than a very general 'not-focused' pattern. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, for starters the "work in the evening"; for the other, the mind-numbing really. | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | what does it tell you so terrible that you'd rather shut it down, anyway? | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: maybe meditate on that some more and filter out the answer in essay/article form at some point; meanwhile it's the question to ask whenever drawn towards "shut down, mind". | [10:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I haven't though about participating in my mind-numbing activities from the perspective of that question. But the question made me think of something I will pgp you. | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right. | [10:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=diZ8 | [10:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: got that & I'll look at it later today. | [10:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok ty. | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: there is very little one can be totally sure to rely on; but the contrast does raise some questions. | [12:27] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011685 – good to hear. | [16:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 04:37:16 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011662 – I like it better too! | [16:21] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011687 – then thanks both for clearing that up. So he was quite serious but I misinterpreted. /me adds to his MP reading luby codex | [16:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 04:37:58 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011671 – this. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, it takes some time to adjust, yes. | [16:22] |
| diana_coman: | possibly raleigh might help :P | [16:23] |
| jfw: | if only he were on irc! | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ahaha; you know, his deeds record doesn't sound all that helpful but feel free to… invite? lolz | [16:26] |
| jfw: | oh, http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-30-Nov-2019#1011682 – I meant the comments rss feed as opposed to the sidebar, and that was the ref I was remembering, yes. It does look to me like MP was talking about both though. | [16:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-30 04:36:50 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011661 – if you mean the blog's own list in there, not really; onth I personally prefer that feedbot tells me about pingbacks too so I'd filter them for blog-publishing but not entirely out of the feed as such. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I think he means both (ie he thinks trackbacks should not be in the comments rss feed either). | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | hm, might as well clarify this, why not; let's see. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | no disagreement with your points there, ftr. It does make for a bit of pressure when referencing – "I might be broadcasting to everyone who follows this blog" – but I suppose that's proper | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why pressure though? | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | ie yes, it might get broadcasted to all those that follow the blog you reference but…why is that adding pressure? | [16:56] |
| jfw: | hm, not sure 'why' really | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | :) | [16:58] |
| jfw: | worst that happens is you find out you were being dumb, and what's so bad about that, right? | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, even before that really; once you publish it, it's public; what difference does it make how many you specifically broadcast to? | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | ie you seem to latch there on to a false shade of sorts or dunno | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | other than that sure, the *best* that can happen is you find out *how* and *where* you were being dumb. | [17:03] |
| jfw: | right. | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, the first time I ever wrote an academic article to actually publish, I did as best I knew how and then sent it – as one is supposed to – to my supervisor for a revision; he came back with "it's very good"; I was too stunned to swear on the spot (hence, I still got to finish my PhD degree in the end I suppose but still). | [17:05] |
| jfw: | you were expecting more criticism? | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I was expecting some help which yes, had to be criticism; and no, it was simply not possible that it was "good" like that, there is no such thing in the given circumstances. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | sure, it could have sucked even more, absolutely. | [17:08] |
| jfw: | ahh I see, an empty thumbsup treatment. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | yes; the easiest and least helpful thing ever; see also the mandatory reading re feedback in general because it's the same thing really. | [17:10] |
| jfw: | as was just in the other log too, heh | [17:11] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-30 mircea_popescu: dunning kruger, rite. | [17:11] |
| jfw: | Gotta run shortly but will add recursing to d-k recursion to re-reading queue. | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | as it happens, yes. | [17:12] |
#ossasepia Logs for 29 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [03:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: looks good; is the fundamental approach in that thread clear now? | [03:21] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you have a broken link/messed up tags on "previous mention of rolling back " | [14:05] |
| diana_coman: | such a pleasant read otherwise. | [14:12] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thank you, glad to hear it was pleasant, I fixed the link. | [18:12] |
| dorion_road: | I'm pretty tied down with festivities here, which will be cooling off sunday, and have also yielded renewing old connections that could be resourceful. I will catch up further tomorrow morning. | [18:17] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-29-Nov-2019#1011654 – will answer in #t since MP asked as well. | [19:10] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-29 03:21:00 diana_coman: jfw: looks good; is the fundamental approach in that thread clear now? | [19:10] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the widget filtering part of http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/29/comments-filtering-for-mp-wp/ works for me, ty. Do you know if pingbacks are still supposed to be in the comments RSS? I recall some mention of this but can't seem to find it. | [20:49] |
| jfw: | ahh my blog looks so much nicer now. Main thing still missing afaik is titles-only archive. | [21:16] |
| jfw: | dorion_mode, gimme a shout if you want a hand with the comment filtration or otherwise. | [21:18] |
| jfw: | pretty easy tho. | [21:18] |
| jfw: | dorion_mode: also any thoughts re http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953896 . | [21:20] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-29 jfw: mircea_popescu: nifty, thanks. Will see if I can accomodate on this pass; otherwise what I'd be working toward is a wallet that's still "declared" but with keys not accessible to node. | [21:20] |
| jfw: | The q = a + b thing he mentions could, in the most literal interpretation, be done with but a minor schema change in the current plan, though I do suspect the full index is necessary to fully generalize as I think he has in mind. | [21:24] |
| jfw: | ooh, perhaps I digest the Luby paper on the plane. | [21:25] |
| jfw: | also lol, wondering how serious http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-29#1953855 is. MS-DOS v2.0 source doesn't fit in 1MB :D | [21:37] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-29 mircea_popescu: aaaanyways. my chief takeaways from spyked 's article are that 1) a multi-gb os is a joke, no matter how you turn this. it is deeply unclear to me 1mb is a defensible amt of space for the os to occupy, | [21:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: I read that is he sees a lot of open questions that can prevent an OS from fitting in just one meg | [21:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | And as a critique of chasing absolute minimalism for minimalism's sake | [21:42] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: ohh so 1mb as unjustifiably *small*? that'd make a lot more sense | [21:44] |
| BingoBoingo: | Multi gigs, too big. 1 MB probably too small. | [21:52] |
| jfw: | thimbronion: maybe try normal internet rather than ipv6, say by putting freenode in your hosts file? | [22:04] |
| thimbronion: | Ok, since it happened again after they said the problem was resolved, I'm parting. I will try your suggestion jfw. | [22:17] |
| thimbronion: | In the meantime I can be found in #exusia should anyone wish to contact me via irc. | [22:18] |
| thimbronion: | #exusiae, rather | [22:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 28 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | jfw: it seems it's probably best to ask any questions re wallet/transactions/trb in #t really; though atm the chances of getting a lot of help there aren't all that clear. | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: any chance you answer jfw's question ? | [04:05] |
| ossabot: | (trinque) 2019-11-25 jfw: trinque: do you know of an existing solution for pushing raw transactions with TRB, patched or otherwise? | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok; for btc though I do hope you are otherwise planning to look & find also some people other-than-surf-pal-who-moves-to-nicaragua or wherever, right? | [04:18] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo_: in fedex-lolz, their tracking page now says it's in the US and "no scheduled delivery date available at this time". | [04:22] |
| diana_coman: | perhaps meanwhile they found out that the UK is on the other side of the ocean or something. | [04:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Well, they've done it to Huawei before | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, we shall see. | [10:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I'll keep networking/searching for people who trade btc/cash in either direction. | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: In last-minute updates, pcgamingcr told me that actually the graphics card they have available are ~00 Radeon RX 550 4GB or ~80 Radeon RX 580 4GB or ~00 Asus GTX 1660 6GB. My question is there a noticeable benefit I will see | [12:46] |
| whaack: | from shelling out for one of the ore pricier VC options for, say, hacking on the Eulora client. | [12:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not really, eulora is very undemanding re graphics + for hacking you'd anyway focus on non-graphics really | [12:47] |
| diana_coman: | iirc someone even managed to run the client on a virtual machine (though that was extreme & slow ofc) so it will run pretty much on ~anything | [12:48] |
| diana_coman: | sure, it will always look better, shinier etc on latest & greatest (+ the fitting drivers because those make the difference even more than card per se). | [12:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but overall it's really more about how much you care about the graphics card otherwise really | [12:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: When you say 'care about the graphics card otherwise' what does otherwise refer to? I have ~0 experience working with the GPU, making animations, etc. I played a little bit with bagger's CEPL and got little past the hello world stage, but it seemed like something I may be interested in doing later. My thinking is 'maybe some day i would like to be able to produce shiny eulora cli | [13:00] |
| whaack: | ents, but i don't care about having a shiny eulora client today' | [13:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I mean mainly if you need/want/are interested in latest graphics for something other than eulora | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if it's "some day", leave it for then, it's not like you can't change a graphics card either | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | and/or build another machine specifically for that if you really get that interested in graphics. | [13:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | The sub 200 USD easy to find sorta graphics card is probably the sweet spot for anyone who isn't animating, rendering, or trying to make their games look like film. | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | but anyway, I expect even with your first option of graphics card there that you can still do decent graphics/animations really | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | basically if you don't know for sure what and why you need X or Y or Z graphics card, you'll likely find totally fine any decent option even if older or something. | [13:14] |
| diana_coman: | if later you figure out you want X or Y graphics card for good reason, you can just change it (if it works with the rest of configuration), what; not a big issue. | [13:15] |
| BingoBoingo: | under the impression the gfx card is the easiest thing to swap out later | [13:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: okay ty. I will go with the rx 550 then and make a proper investment in a graphics card if/when I actually need one. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: np; and sounds sensible, yes. | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: depending on OS and all that, there can be all sorts of drivers-induced nightmares but otherwise and in principle myeah. | [13:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Another question. The [https://www.corsair.com/us/en/Categories/Products/Cases/SPEC-06-RGB/p/CC-9011146-WW#tab-tech-specs]][Corsair Spec 06 case] I am getting comes with 2 included 120mm fans with 6 potential spots for fans. Should I get additional fans? | [13:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: On that case the extra spots look like they are for folks doing weird with watercooling and such | [13:35] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it looks like the 2 included should be enough for as long as you keep it in a sensible place really; at any rate, you can monitor the temp and figure out later if you really need to add fans, it depends in the end on your environment too. | [13:44] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Yes the case also supports watercooling. Is that an issue? I did not do too much of an investigation on cases. I know only that they need to have the right size / form factor, and bigger is better for cooling. | [13:45] |
| diana_coman: | also, if you have in there 8 running fans, it might end up rather noisy, so maybe not ideal if it can be helped. | [13:45] |
| whaack: | Yes I really don't want to replace my background audio of ocean waves with the noise of fans spinning. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re size, the less crowded stuff is, the more space for air to move about so yes. | [13:46] |
| diana_coman: | so then, let it be as it is and otherwise monitor it and see, that's how things are figured out anyway. | [13:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: cool. Looks like the major pieces are all decided then. I am going with the 00 1500VA UPS My thought process was if they are both so overpriced then the investment aspect is out the window and I should cut my losses by getting the cheaper option that addresses my immediate needs. I read a review on amazon that seemed thoughtful that de | [13:50] |
| whaack: | tailed how to attach a better off brand battery and added it to my notes. | [13:50] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [13:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Shouldn't be an issue | [13:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | Cases like that one they try to make versatile | [13:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's the smaller cases that try to force you into particular flavors of weird | [13:52] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Cool. | [13:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | On the big cases they have to offer the possibility of water cooling, or there's a subset of customers that'll give the case a hard pass. | [14:02] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: If my case offers vertical GPU mounting, should I get a mount / Pcie Riser Cable to do so? Or is it unnecessary. | [14:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: depends on the height of the GPU. If you don't have to, I don't see why you would. If space demands you mount vertically, it forces you to get one. | [14:37] |
| BingoBoingo: | If you can find your desired gfx card in a "low profile" version, that can also work and helps to keep the clutter down. | [14:37] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Alright ty. Looks like my GPU should fit just fine. | [14:52] |
| whaack: | asking though if they have the low profile version. | [14:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | Cool | [14:53] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I went to town and ordered the following items for my computer/work station: A cpu, motherboard, graphics card, psu, backup internal drive, a case, an internal ssd card reader, a mouse/keyboard, a monitor, and a UPS. I will write an article with the exact items ordered soon. I tried to open a bank account and learned that I need a letter from a local describing my job/living location/etc. My landlord will w | [21:19] |
| whaack: | rite one for me. The bank told me that I can deposit k/month at first, but that limit can be increased over time. I also spent time in town getting various items to improve the state of my apartment. I am pretty exhausted after today's trip and will have to push back my planned 4hours of reviewing backup strategy + testing my blog recovery. Instead I will do some item unboxing tonight and try to get some good rest for tomorrow. | [21:19] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-28-Nov-2019#1011597 – belated ack. | [23:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-28 04:05:33 diana_coman: jfw: it seems it's probably best to ask any questions re wallet/transactions/trb in #t really; though atm the chances of getting a lot of help there aren't all that clear. | [23:20] |
| jfw: | Got a comment thread going with MP on how to do the node-wallet split more generally which I'm trying to make the most of. | [23:24] |
#ossasepia Logs for 27 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: 6.5hr done of saltmines, I wound up spending closer to 3h today on researching/ordering parts. I used an extra 1hr 15min to read/study Spanish. I investigated the 0000 gmt datetime bug. The problem I am almost certain arose after I revived my dead sql process. mpwp uses the 0000 to signify a null date, and my new sql process has a setting that makes the date invalid and rejects the insert. The new time cons | [00:29] |
| whaack: | uming item I have is I must make trips to the atm (1h by taxi each way) to acquire cash to pay rent and have enough cash to be able to make bank deposits to order the computer parts. I am trying to speed the cash acquiring process up by doing a btc-buy in the us and a btc-sell locally. | [00:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: mpwp has 0000 set as default for dates indeed; does the insert rely on default values though? it sounds rather surprising because you'd end up with those 0000 everywhere then, hm; what happened to the "sql process" that it had to be revived anyway? | [04:16] |
| diana_coman: | the btc-buy/sell locally will be useful anyway. | [04:17] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: atm whaack doesn't really have the luxury of figuring out how to build an UPS from scratch too, on top of everything else; yes, a working APC UPS is not ideal nor best nor anything else; it still is a working UPS. | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's this: http://ossasepia.com/2010/05/11/mica-fabula-de-kafka/#comment-7096 | [07:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I am not sure what killed the mysql process. 9 days ago digitalocean sent out an email saying they, "rolled out mitigation efforts across our entire fleet" to address Intel's statement regarding a vulnerability, "Machine Check Error Avoidance On Page Size Change." It may be that they restarted my machine and my mysql process is not set to run on startup. | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: eurgh; such "service". | [08:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well recall digitalocean was the lifeboat from the TMSR fire. I think that I should find a new provider and use them as a test for recovering my backups. | [08:27] |
| diana_coman: | sounds like a plan. | [08:31] |
| whaack: | I found a solution to Incorrect datetime value bug. I edited the /etc/mysql/mysql.conf.d/mysqld.cnf file and added the line sql-mode = 'ONLY_FULL_GROUP_BY,STRICT_TRANS_TABLES,ERROR_FOR_DIVISION_BY_ZERO,NO_AUTO_CREATE_USER,NO_ENGINE_SUBSTITUTION,ALLOW_INVALID_DATE' . The change from my original sql_mode was I removed NO_ZERO_IN_DATE,NO_ZERO_DATE and added ALLOW_INVALID_DA | [09:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-26 00:12:53 whaack: For tomorrow's unexpected task list: I have a strange error that prevents me from saving drafts of articles on ztkfg. The error is some datetime value is getting set to 0000-00-00 00:00:00. My servers clock / date function seem to be working, and in the error log it shows some fields with the date/time set correctly. | [09:41] |
| whaack: | TES. Note that although in the client the variable is SQL_MODE in the cnf file you must assign the variable sql-mode with a hyphen. If you need to see your current sql mode you can run "SHOW VARIABLES LIKE 'sql_mode' ;" in the mysql client. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do the dates end up now invalid in db though? | [09:44] |
| whaack: | goes to check | [09:46] |
| whaack: | The dates end up as 0000-00-00 00:00:00 as I understand is intended. But I am going to see if I can remove the ALLOW_INVALID_DATES flag since that may not be necessary having already removed "NO_ZERO_DATE" and "NO_ZERO_IN_DATE". | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: uhm, dunno if intended; afaik in my db the dates are properly set really, for both post_date and post_date_gmt | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | the default values are 000 but I don't think it's meant to insert without setting it | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | hence my q yesterday and hint to go and look at the insert because it's not as much that it should allow bogus dates but rather WHY does it try to enter bogus dates to start with? | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | the trouble with unexpected resets and "updates" is that they might have fucked whatever versions of anything and therefore who knows how long it takes to track this down | [09:59] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The post_date is set correctly, but the post_date_gmt gets set to 0000. I will take a look as to why. | [10:00] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, can probably leave it at whatever non-breaking thing for now if it's not obvious, but should find a less time-consuming place for your blog indeed, by the looks of it | [10:00] |
| whaack: | Also I did not need to set the flag ALLOW_INVALID_DATES, and I removed it. I also can keep the NO_ZERO_IN_DATE flag. I just needed to remove the NO_ZERO_DATE flag. | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | gotta love the 3 flags for same thing approach, myeah. | [10:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay I did a small investigation. The sql schema has the 0000 date as the defaults. The post_date_gmt gets left at the default, 0000, to represent that the article has not been posted yet (because one is saving a draft). That said, the other date variable "post_date" is being set when one saves a draft. | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ah, so it's set fine when you publish it, then? | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | (I don't really keep drafts so yeah, I wouldn't notice that case) | [10:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | ok then. | [10:16] |
| whaack: | bootstraps | [10:16] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: It's just about a week until you hop on the plane. Any loose ends outstanding for your Montevideo trip? | [11:40] |
| dorion_road: | hiya #o, good afternoon/evening. any one around willing and able to !!up me in #t ? | [14:19] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: done. | [14:43] |
| jfw: | Well it looks like I got two days of writing in there in the effort to not leave that series hanging. | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, so you need… more pressure? :D | [14:44] |
| jfw: | heh, idk, still need mein laufrichtung andern perhaps | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | vielleicht. | [14:55] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Nov-2019#1011517 – nice, reads better to me. | [15:07] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-27 07:32:17 diana_coman: jfw: how's this: http://ossasepia.com/2010/05/11/mica-fabula-de-kafka/#comment-7096 | [15:07] |
| jfw: | can't comment as to the mouse's gender, afaik it's ambiguous in the German. There's a Clemens quote here, if I can find… | [15:08] |
| jfw: | yay! In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | eh, that's because she's no lady, just a madchen | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | but it's die Maus, isn't it? | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | das Madchen | [15:11] |
| jfw: | yes, so unclear if the 'sie' is because of the mouse or just the word, is what I mean. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | ah, well, it's a generic mouse, lol. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: nice to see your action in #t but mind actually updating me on your obviously-but-rather-left-unspecified new plans for the week as well? | [15:31] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman shall I leave a comment on my plan for the week with the updated plan for the remaining days ? sorry for the weak communication there. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: works, yes. | [15:52] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Nov-2019#1011542 – thanks for asking. I've asked around about old blankets and such for padding material but nothing's turned up yet; I'm assuming worst case I can buy a bunch of bubble wrap and pillows down there. | [15:52] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-27 11:40:53 BingoBoingo: jfw: It's just about a week until you hop on the plane. Any loose ends outstanding for your Montevideo trip? | [15:52] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Well, got any clean beach towels? | [15:53] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: sure, just not many. | [15:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | I have some bubble wrap after preparing diana_coman's server, but the place to get more bubble wrap is a trip. | [15:54] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman another !!up in #t would be appreciated. | [15:55] |
| BingoBoingo: | Anyways, I don't see how having a variety of things padding machines could hurt | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: done. | [15:55] |
| jfw: | BingoBoingo: good to know, then I'll bring the bubble wrap along if needed. | [15:57] |
| BingoBoingo: | jfw: Well, It's just a ride to the local Home Depot equivalent. Probably best to avoid too much bubble wrap if other things are available | [15:58] |
| asciilifeform: | will cross-post here for FG owners : http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-27#1002772 | [16:05] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-27 asciilifeform: attn all FG owners : the legacy documentation, incl. all sources/sigs, is henceforth preserved here. | [16:05] |
| dorion_road: | ty asciilifeform | [16:06] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: the link to your fg page no longer resolves. lemme know plz if that article still on your www and you'd like it fixed. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: mind running a replace of dianacoman.com with ossasepia.com? | [16:08] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ty, worx. will fix in 1s. | [16:08] |
| diana_coman: | that's the trouble there; when I get a break I'll set up again the redirect for dianacoman.com > ossasepia.com too but atm it's not done. | [16:09] |
| asciilifeform: | fixed. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | thanks | [16:09] |
| asciilifeform: | verified, all links to FG user www's presently result. even that of esthlos, who sank into sea. | [16:10] |
| asciilifeform: | *resolve | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, I rather wish esthlos made it back. | [16:11] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-27-Nov-2019#1011570 – sorry, missed ack'ing this. Def still on the lookout for other things, just that time is tight. | [16:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-27 15:58:08 BingoBoingo: jfw: Well, It's just a ride to the local Home Depot equivalent. Probably best to avoid too much bubble wrap if other things are available | [16:18] |
| jfw: | to grab a bite then write up some updates on wallet. | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: mind setting a znc somewhere? it's getting rather annoying. | [17:00] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: apologies. I am actually connected via a znc via a machine at a colo. I can /part until I figure out why my colo's connection is so bad. | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | huh, that's a weird connection at colo then; what colo is that? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: and btw, how's it going? it's been quite a while. | [17:03] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: datanoc.com is ther colo. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | well, now datanoc.com is in the logs for poor connection, lolz. | [17:07] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: In terms of getting to figuring out what's next, my blog is in much better shape – backups working, weird redirect bug fixed, text selection linking working. Also I wrote an image upload script that works well. I updated the pics in the hawaii post with it. Now I just need to do the hard part … which is to start writing an article about how to move on and be useful. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | thimbronion: sounds good; looking forward to that article then. | [17:11] |
| thimbronion: | diana_coman: I have contacted my colo about the disconnections. If I don't get a satisfactory answer from them today, I will leave this channel until I can get a better connection somewhere. | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | all right. | [17:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mid/EOD report : Today's saltmine grind got interrupted because surfpal sold the car and wanted to buy some btc. I took the opportunity to go meet him and got a wad of cash so I can order my computer parts tomorrow. I have 3.5hrs left of saltmines for today/the week, I am going to spend the rest of the day finishing those hours and revising my orders so I can make all the necessary deposits when I go to town tomorrow. | [19:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 26 Nov 2019
| whaack: | For tomorrow's unexpected task list: I have a strange error that prevents me from saving drafts of articles on ztkfg. The error is some datetime value is getting set to 0000-00-00 00:00:00. My servers clock / date function seem to be working, and in the error log it shows some fields with the date/time set correctly. | [00:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: oh, so you'll be able to get them from cr after all? not ba | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | not bad* | [03:38] |
| diana_coman: | hm, haven't seen that wp error before but look at the part doing the insert and figure out why it ends up pushing 0000 ; is there some conversion to gmt that fails or what? | [03:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, looks like I'll be able to get everything I need here. (minus the hard drive + thermal paste thimbronion is bringing.) | [08:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ok I will investigate the blog bug later today after my TODOs are done. | [08:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: sounds ok. | [08:45] |
| asciilifeform: | ty diana_coman for writing your review. | [14:14] |
| diana_coman: | np | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | I keep my promises. | [14:15] |
| asciilifeform: | a+++ diana_coman . ( plz see also comment. ) | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | answered. | [14:53] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: is it possible to put links in the comments on your www ? standard syntax ? | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes | [15:00] |
| asciilifeform: | ty | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | it will go to modqueue so have a bit of patience until I get to publish it, that's all. | [15:00] |
| dorion_road: | hi diana_coman , good evening. mind giving me an !!up in #t ? | [15:02] |
| dorion_road: | (or anyone else who's willing and able.) | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | heh, BingoBoingo was faster. | [15:05] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: answr'd | [15:16] |
| dorion_road: | I'd appreciate another !!up in #t, por favor. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: you are up, lol | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-26#1953609 <- dorion_road | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-26 diana_coman: !!up dorion_road | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha dorion_road ; fine, let him off the hook there. | [15:47] |
| dorion_road: | ah, scrolled past and this road terminal isn't scrolling up. haven't yet dug into why. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | so use a logs window if you are otherwise likely to miss stuff. | [15:51] |
| dorion_road: | ok | [15:55] |
| whaack: | The only decent PCU I could find in stock in a CR store was Seasonic Focus PLUS 850 Gold . Is this one alright? I can pay a little more and wait for an order for my original Corsair RM850x | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so compare them and figure it out | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | can't even open that page on this machine really. | [17:44] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It is an awful website..maybe a red flag in and of itself. | [17:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: And yes I am doing my own research on these parts in addition to asking in chan. If you'd rather I wait and write another blog article with an updated list instead of posting each item in chan individually I can do that as well. | [17:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: As far as I know Seasonic doesn't make bad power supplies. I put a Seasonic in the Qntrabox. The important thing is making sure you have enough plugs coming out of the supply to deliver power to the things you want in the machine. | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not necessarily article but say directly what the issue is that you can't decide yourself | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | eg I looked and they have same characteristics but it's only brand different or that has more power but the other one has … | [17:51] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay will do. BingoBoingo answered the question I should have made explicit "The specs on this Seasonic Focus Plus 850 Gold look fine, but I have not heard of Seasonic, has anyone had a good/bad experience with one of their PSUs?" | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what does it mean "look fine" ? are they the same /how different from the one you were looking at, previously? | [17:54] |
| BingoBoingo: | The nice to have upgrade is a "modular" supply where you can disconnect cables you don't use to keep them from cluttering your case, but whether that's worth it depends on availability. | [17:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The criteria of 'the specs look fine' were: it has the same wattage, it meets the 80 Plus standard, it has the right size. | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: should be all right ; is that same shop you buy the rest of components? | [18:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes, from pcgamingcr. Took me a while to hear from them but now I am messaging a responsive sales person. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ftr you should normally look in more detail beyond the total wattage but anyway, both of those PSUs are quite all right from what I se.e | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | ok. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Right now I am ordering from pcgamingcr and cococo.co.cr. I am trying to cut out bestcomputersa if possible because their point person has been hard to work with and I want to reduce the number of deliveries I may have to pick up. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: makes sense. | [18:07] |
| jfw: | whaack: I have used a Seasonic too without trouble. | [18:08] |
| whaack: | jfw: great to hear! | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: since the tech work got pushed full speed in front, it makes sense to get it all published and be done with that part iirc there's more still waiting, isn't there? | [18:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: there is, and makes sense | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | the likelihood being ofc that once that's done there will be yet another pile of tech pushed happily on but anyways. | [18:16] |
| jfw: | I hear the concern. | [18:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Another question is what is the best investment to make regarding a UPS. Taking what I learned from attempting to buy a car, I figure I want a UPS that has easy-to-find battery replacements. cococo.co.cr carries ~only APC's, a brand which you've used a unit from successfully for 6 years, but asciilifeform said he 'had many headaches' with. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you certainly DO want to be able to find battery replacements, yes; (though it should be quite a few years until you need to replace the battery). | [18:20] |
| jfw: | whaack, fwiw I've been fine with APC BackUPS units. My current failed one is a cheapo Forza. | [18:21] |
| diana_coman: | I still have APCs, too. | [18:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | I've only heard bad things about Forza UPS systems | [18:39] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack et al : my observation is that it is less important which vendor, but that you get a ~rack~-type unit (regardless of whether for rack or desk.) these tend to be made solidly (i.e. w/ actual forced air cooling, and 24/7 inverter sinusoid rather than 'on demand' crapola) and use arrays of ~standard~ 12v gel cells that you can buy ~anywhere on planet | [18:45] |
| asciilifeform: | konsoomer ups tends to use proprietary (or at least hard-to-find) 'cartridge' rather than standard lead-acid thing w/ simple iron '+'/'-' contacts | [18:45] |
| asciilifeform: | e.g. my particular historic favourite takes 4 x 12v 9A/hr cells, sold around world (for e.g. alarm systems) . | [18:48] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-11-20 19:47:08 asciilifeform: diana_coman: for ~decade nao i use several 'liebert' GXT2-1000RT120 (on diff comps), they work a++ (so long as you remember to buy new cells erry 2-3y) ; formerly apc (of simil. size) , w/ apc had many headaches. | [18:48] |
| asciilifeform: | the other thing you get from 'industrial' ups is ability to expand (has lugs on the back for 48v) , on konsoomer units is absent, given as normally they do not in fact have proper cooling and so not rated to run for >15m or whatever the internal cell permits | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: do note that he is building his *first* computere there | [18:50] |
| asciilifeform: | lastly — may be obv. to thinking folx, but do not use automobile battery indoors, no matter how cheap & tempting. vents h2. | [18:50] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: right. but asked re ups, so i'd like to put on record. | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | sure, thanks. | [18:51] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: apc co. is sometimes derisively called among dc folx 'american potato company' — but may be a cruel libel, my dislike for'em is entirely from having used the cheapo konsoomer line in '90s. for all i know, their high end items are reasonably solid. | [18:56] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/asciilifeform/2019-11-26#1002767 in case missed . | [18:58] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-26 asciilifeform: jfw: your crate has been sent. tracking # in pgpgram. | [18:58] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: uhm, he even acknowledged, no/ | [18:59] |
| ossabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-26 jfw: asciilifeform: will do. | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [18:59] |
| jfw: | ^ :) | [18:59] |
| asciilifeform: | aa damn. | [19:00] |
| asciilifeform: | nm then. | [19:00] |
| asciilifeform: | too many terminals, not enuff eyes. | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | even eyes don't scale | [19:00] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform and diana_coman: Alright. Just got off the phone with cococo.co.cr to confirm what UPS's they ~actually~ have. I am choosing between the 50 APC-Smart-UPS-1500VA-LCD and the ,000 rac kAPC Smart-UPS 3000VA LCD RM 2U 120V | [19:18] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: these prices seem imho to have an extra 0 in'em. but tbf i've never once bought such a thing 'new in box'. | [19:19] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack et al : is there no such thing as 2ndhand iron market in all of cr ?? | [19:21] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: hanbot said she's had little success apart from craigslist | [19:22] |
| ossabot: | (trilema-hanbot) 2019-11-10 hanbot: i never had much luck with the whole mercadolibre/online marketplace side of things there, with the exception of craigslist of all things, which has occasionally been useful for trading with gringos. | [19:22] |
| asciilifeform: | naturally you ~will~ want fresh 12v cells in yours. but e.g. my 'liebert' was built in 1990s and still runs (swapped 3 fans in last 10y, admittedly, and of course cells erry 3y. but aside from this, ~eternal) | [19:22] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i would not pay 1000 for item that can be bought in usa for 100 and mailed for 300. but if you need it ~quickly~ (as it seems from thread) you will have to go with what is available. | [19:24] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: I need it soon, but I think I can wait an extra week to save ~00 | [19:25] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: are you able/willing to use dirty heathen payment processors (e.g. 'paypal') ? then can 'ebay' or similar. | [19:26] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Yes I am although it is something that doesn't sit well with me | [19:28] |
| asciilifeform: | if lived in an orcistan where cannot get civilized ups, would do differently : buy atx ps that runs from 12v input, and wire it in parallel w/ a bank of 12v gel cels. entirely as good as ups, w/ the exception of lacking automatic gauge / shutdown trigger. | [19:29] |
| asciilifeform: | if you think about it — it's rather barbaric that folx burn watts on sinusoid inverter to get 120/220v only to then turn it back to 12v dc yer pc ultimately eats | [19:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | Rackmount DC power supplies that feed servers 12v direct are a thing I discovered exist back in 2017 when shopping for proto-pizarro. The "how to feed a computer power" rabbit hole can go deep if you let it. | [19:33] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: i had a chance to see close-up various heavy infrastructural irons in dc. many in fact eat 48v straight from the battery banks. | [19:34] |
| asciilifeform: | this as i understand was also common in the old telephonic world. | [19:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | May have been inherited from telephonics | [19:35] |
| asciilifeform: | it was. and in the old times there was not even such at thing available as a cheap/efficient (i.e. semiconductor) inverter. | [19:36] |
| asciilifeform: | edison's dc grid may not have made sense for new york city, but makes eminent sense inside 1 machine hall. | [19:37] |
#ossasepia Logs for 25 Nov 2019
| jfw: | Well that might be my record on weekly review length, if not timeliness. Now if I can work that ratchet in the other direction… | [01:58] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo_: got it, will have a look later today, thank you. | [03:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: here's for you to change direction then, courtesy of Kafka himself. | [03:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw and dorion_road you should both have quite a few passes of tech and governance ; not in a hurry nor all of the passes crammed "this week" but gradually until it sticks. | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: see in #t. | [09:15] |
| dorion_road: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-25-Nov-2019#1011334 << Thank you, I'll add it to my weekly reading and make the French passages part of my French practice until it sticks. | [13:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-25 03:56:27 diana_coman: jfw and dorion_road you should both have quite a few passes of tech and governance ; not in a hurry nor all of the passes crammed "this week" but gradually until it sticks. | [13:06] |
| diana_coman: | dorion_road: heh, that's from Pascal there. | [13:07] |
| diana_coman: | can't go wrong using Pascal for French practice, for sure. | [13:07] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman nice. I'm getting caught up in #t. | [13:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Your server is in Fedex's hands. Will GPGgram you the tracking number in a bit. With a bit more than 12 feet of bubblewrap the package came to an even 15kg on the scale. | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: thank you. | [14:36] |
| diana_coman: | that will be interesting to ferry from the not-so-royal post office if it ends up in that middle of nowhere, huh. | [14:39] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: invoice me at your earliest convenience please. | [14:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I rolled it a bit more than 1 km to the fedex office on a hand truck. It was a bit sweaty, but with the padding I'm not concerned about it getting any bumps | [14:40] |
| diana_coman: | ah, no worries re that; I was simply picturing myself having to handle the thing, lol; I'll have to draft in a helper. | [14:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Will do. Going to get part of jurov's into the mail and should fire all invoices this evening. | [14:41] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: The dimensions make it a bit awkward, but if you can still lift the child, a couple maneuvers to put the server somewhere are probably doable. The box and bubble wrap make it much easier to grip. | [14:43] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, child is more like 22kg and still fine, lolz. | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | no worries really. | [14:45] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: didja buy rails ? if not , vendor's 'CSE-PT52L' kit — fits. i've found that e.g. 'dell' rails do not fit 'supermicro' boxen. | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: first I'll have to study this inside out with a cat's curiosity because yes. | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | but there will be rails at some point too, so thank you for the pointer. | [14:46] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform diana_coman: I managed to break down the rails and make them fit. | [14:46] |
| asciilifeform: | aa, so nm. | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | oh, thank you BingoBoingo | [14:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: I can't recommend Dell rails for anything. The spring loaded locking mechanism they use is way too finicky to choose with any other options at all available. | [14:47] |
| asciilifeform: | BingoBoingo: like complete idiot, i bought, coupla months ago, 100kg of rails. then only later found, they were 'dell' garbage, fits only ~their~ machines. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | pictures asciilifeform-on-rails | [14:49] |
| asciilifeform: | put this here cuz iirc diana_coman & students making racks, so perhaps can learn from asciilifeform's mistake. apol. for spam if uninteresting . | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: ah, don't take it that way please; no spam at all and thank you. | [14:50] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, it is interesting. | [14:51] |
| BingoBoingo: | asciilifeform: How they fit the Dell Machines is also a pain. It took some reps to get the knack for taking supermicro railed machines in and out of the rack, but once the thumbwork for that clicks in the muscle memory it's a reliable system. | [14:51] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: if you end up wanting own rk cluster, may also find this helpful. (i did promise photos/recipe.) | [14:52] |
| snsabot: | (asciilifeform) 2019-11-17 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: you may find interesting the new rk system , mounted last night. | [14:52] |
| asciilifeform: | the shelf in photo is a 'Rising Electronics Fixed Rack Server Shelf 1U', the rails — aluminum standard DIN rails; rivets & screws — M3 . | [14:53] |
| diana_coman: | I saw the shiny new RK photo too, looked very cool; tbh my reserve re RK is re ARM ie why do I need ARM given that it's also not exactly free (eg GNAT still no-worky) | [14:53] |
| asciilifeform: | this is entirely tru, diana_coman , afaik no one yet found a pill for that gnat bug on arm64. | [14:54] |
| asciilifeform: | until found, they're only good for 'lamp' & similar. | [14:54] |
| asciilifeform: | ( for thread-completeness — the dc power supply is this chinese item, 'Mixilin 2019 60 port'. ~100 $. there are many vendors making similar. ) | [14:57] |
| asciilifeform: | ^ ps of course dun come w/ a din clamp, but it does come apart and then bottom drilled & riveted to clamp. sits as if glued, and good thermal conduct. | [15:03] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: attempting a rough translation of the kafka: | [16:40] |
| jfw: | "Ach", said the mouse, "the world narrows with every day. First it was so wide that I was afraid; I ran further and was lucky to finally see right and left to the far walls; but these long walls are rushing so fast to join together, that I'm already in the last room, and there in the corner stands the trap I'm running into." / "You need only alter your direction of running", said the cat, and ate | [16:41] |
| jfw: | her. | [16:41] |
| dorion_road: | thanks for the update in #t jfw. My 21:30 meeting was moved up, headed afk for a couple hours now. | [16:41] |
| jfw: | alright good luck. Working on reply to wallet comments too. | [16:42] |
| dorion_road: | cool. | [16:42] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: want to tackle the French for me? :) | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: translation works! | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | "and was lucky" -> "and was happy" | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | glucklich is a false cognate there, not lucky. | [17:29] |
| jfw: | huh. I left it as a proper comment too btw. | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | comment published | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | ach would be oh maybe? or if you go for full feeling there perhaps alas! | [17:32] |
| jfw: | could work. With glucklich I wasn't going entirely by cognate, looks like it can be 'fortunate', and there's 'frohlich' for happy; I do see 'happy' fitting better in the sentence though. | [17:35] |
| jfw: | Using dict.cc , don't have a proper all-DE dictionary handy. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | do you speak German? | [17:37] |
| jfw: | Nicht sehr gut aber ich studierte in der Schule. | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | pas mal. | [17:38] |
| jfw: | aber le francais nein. | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | any other languages? | [17:40] |
| jfw: | besides the spanish nothing serious | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | eh, doesn't need to be "serious", what. | [17:44] |
| jfw: | heh, well then, there was some Esperanto (lolz) a while back; then I did some basic level audio courses in a couple: Cantonese (before I decided on Panama), Hungarian (part of the family came from there), an' Romanian (because Trilema) | [17:49] |
| jfw: | Also studied Greek and Cyrillic script / pronunciation. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | so can you read those? | [17:51] |
| jfw: | sound out, kinda; not understand. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, after the first 10 languages or so, it gets very easy :)) | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | but I gather it's you I should throw the Ro-blocks of text at, notes. | [17:53] |
| jfw: | heh, I'd give 'em a shot. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | now looks wtf is wrong with that old comment that is out of place in there. | [17:54] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, you should publish that Gales & docs too (I heard you have very good docs, yay!). | [18:32] |
| jfw: | Will do diana_coman, and we'll see how the docs measure up. | [18:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD / midday report. 6.5 hour of saltmines complete, i have to go drop off the car right now which is going to take me a little over 2 hours, when I get back I will do 2 hours of work related to ordering parts. | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [19:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Of course 5 seconds after I send that message surfpal messages saying he will meet me much closer. I now have 1 hour before I have to leave for about 1 hour. I will get started on ordering parts. | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | that surfpal of yours is expert at wasting your time really. | [19:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I don't deny that but I was still grateful to have this change of plans. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | at least so far it seems it might work for the best, yes. | [19:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Is the Dell P2419H [https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/accessories/apd/210-aqdx?mkwid=sQNLKHVIV&pcrid=396949429362&pkw=\%2Bp2419h&pmt=b&pdv=c&slid=&product=&pgrid=81127580801&pgrid=81127580801&ptaid=kwd-506909789223&ptaid=kwd-506909789223&VEN1=sQNLKHVIV,396949429362,901q5c14135,c,,,81127580801,kwd-506909789223&VEN1=sQNLKHVIV,39694942936 | [19:32] |
| whaack: | 2,901q5c14135,c,,,81127580801,kwd-506909789223&VEN2=b,\%2Bp2419h&VEN2=b,\%2Bp2419h&cid=312883082&cid=312883082&lid=59900160328&lid=59900160328&dgc=st&dgc=st&dgseg=bsd&dgseg=so&acd=12309152537461010&st=\%2Bp2419h&gclid=CjwKCAiAlO7uBRANEiwA_vXQ-846ZpjYhQcC3XpMyOHUF5Uq1dxYr8QQaVynMJ-PnyH5_yW6Docr-RoC4cUQAvD_BwE&VEN3=810105206369641399][specs: 24', 1980×1080 at 60hz, 8ms response, swivel to portrait available] an acceptable monitor to ord | [19:32] |
| whaack: | er? | [19:32] |
| whaack: | sorry for that atrocious link. | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | lolz. | [19:35] |
| diana_coman: | sounds ok re usual basic characteristics but monitors are a matter of personal preference & use really. | [19:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have some good news. I heard back from pcgamingcr. They have the fx-8350 + a GA-970A-UD3P rev 2 mother board + Gigabyte GTX 770 4GB video card. The mother board and video card seem to acceptable replacements to the ones I had chosen, I will give them a second review tomorrow morning. | [23:19] |
#ossasepia Logs for 24 Nov 2019
| diana_coman: | whaack: you may go, yes. | [04:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you're welcome; glad to see you got the deedbot wallet issue sorted too. | [04:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: why was your review post with "no comments allowed"? did you set that up or did something get cut/messed up at publishing time or what happened? (I fixed the comments part meanwhile.) | [04:28] |
| diana_coman: | and glad to see the reading of An Outpost of Progress was not lost on you. | [04:29] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: weird, not sure how that happened. Only thing I can think of is I tabbed out of the focus of the editor at one point by accident, so I may have tabbed into the checkbox and toggled it. I don't think this is the case though. | [07:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: MP had once this trouble when the connection cut so not all the article got published/something was messed up; anyways, not a big issue now but keep an eye on it/check after publishing. | [07:34] |
| diana_coman: | and well done for this week, enjoy your surfing! | [07:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: That sounds much more likely. At one point only half my post got saved, I would have lost the other half if I didn't have a local copy. | [07:36] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and tyvm! | [07:38] |
| dorion_road: | good afternoon/evening #o. I'm back from the wilderness with a stable net; to start processing the responses I owe. | [13:37] |
| diana_coman: | wb to civilisation dorion_road | [13:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do I gather the half-hour evening planning worked well? | [13:45] |
| dorion_road: | thank you diana_coman, it was refreshing and it's good to be back. | [13:46] |
| jfw: | welcome back dorion_road, did you bring home any prizes? | [15:13] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: indeed it was a relief to have deedbot sorted. | [15:14] |
| jfw: | re evening planning working – not so well as regards saving time | [15:15] |
| jfw: | I think I wasn't focused or active enough with it; should have written down thoughts or questions or plans | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ofc writing them down, huh; did you just …what exactly? | [15:18] |
| jfw: | re-read the previous articles and outlined points, thought about it | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | but nothing for next day or what was the problem? | [15:20] |
| jfw: | nothing that I could just pick up and start the flow at any rate | [15:20] |
| jfw: | I found myself enjoying it once it did get started | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | did it take that long to get started? | [15:22] |
| jfw: | about half an hour. | [15:22] |
| dorion_road: | <jfw> welcome back dorion_road, did you bring home any prizes? << if you count material for an article a prize then yes; other than that, I filled no tags nor fired my rifle. | [15:23] |
| jfw: | dorion_road: you got what I meant but I'd say material counts too! | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | hm; do prepare better in the evening, that's what that half hour is for + it gives you some time to think it through really; but also, if you really need for now half hour to get started, factor it in and write 1.5hours or something; just don't end up making this "get started" longer and longer because there is more time or something. | [15:24] |
| jfw: | indeed that's a trap I have to be careful of. | [15:25] |
| jfw: | and will keep at the evening prep. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [15:26] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I believe I solved the problem of how to pad your server to build a box around. Will GPGtarball you photos and attempt to get it to Fedex tomorrow, weather permitting. | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: works, thank you; at any rate, there's no hurry or anything. | [18:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: http://aaronrogier.net/dcboxprep.tar.gz.gpg << Only two good pics. Feel free to publish at your leisure or keep for your private comparison with what arrives. | [19:34] |
#ossasepia Logs for 23 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report: I was focused today in the sense that my ass was on the chair & again I did not indulge in nonsense (although I admit I took 30 mins on the guitar to watch the sunset.) That said I think I am 'spinning' throughout the day at various points since I still did not get much done. I knocked out four hours of saltmines, and had a conversation with bestcomputersa that turned out less than ideal. I tried to follow | [00:10] |
| whaack: | up with them about what other parts they have / could they send me some list since their website is out of date. They said yes they would but never got back to me. I have another lead pcgamingcr.com that I emailed and will call tomorrow. The best thing I walk away with today was probably having read hanbot's translation of mp's article. | [00:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I see. What's the situation there with your computer parts ie now you have some that go with a processor you can't find or what exactly? | [05:02] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Bestcomputersa does not have the video card, motherboard, nor graphics card I picked. So essentially the components that depend most on each other are all missing. | [08:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I went through the motherboards on pcgamingcr, none of them as far as I can tell support the fx 8350 so I would not be surprised if they also do not have the processor despite listing it on their website (i tried calling but their "24/7" support is a meaningless sticker they place on their site) | [08:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: So looks like I will have to either switch to the ryzen series (my understanding is that decision means paying a little more to be a beta tester on less 'pure' hardware) or go back to plan A of ordering from the states. | [09:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will speak with the three companies (pcgamingcr.com, cococo.co.cr, and bestcomputersa.com) on the phone today to get a better idea of my options. Bestcomputersa did say they had an fx-8000 so I might see if I can find a compatible motherboard/video card and go with that option. | [09:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ok. | [09:33] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: this not-quite-morning's article was late because I ran over time. I realized I wasn't clear on where the overall thing was going, so took some time to work on that. It seems I'm not at a point where the background thinking gets much done while in the background. | [16:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, that part takes time too esp since it sounds otherwise like you have a lot of practice in making sure it doesn't happen that way, lol. | [16:07] |
| diana_coman: | if you keep going over 1 hour though, try maybe half hour in the evening to plan *something* and then 1 hour in the morning to write on that. | [16:08] |
| jfw: | Otherwise: dorion is stuck on a fondleslate because the supposed campsite power supply didn't deliver. I'd let him be except that I have to clarify what wallet expectations actually are in light of http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/next-steps-in-wallet-planning/#comment-42 | [16:08] |
| jfw: | sounds good, I'll try that. | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so can you get hold of him to clarify on the wallet or not? | [16:11] |
| jfw: | Yes but unreliably. I'm planning to email the clients, though they're traveling as well | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | tbh I'd much rather incline at this stage to *not* change the plans now but you do need to talk to him and agree if that's the best way forward atm or not. | [16:14] |
| jfw: | aha, was my inclination too | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | is it perhaps a problem to have next year some "version 2" ? | [16:16] |
| jfw: | no; though I think his concern is trying to get the plan right the first time so as not to have to redo things | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | eh, that he won't ~ever get, lol. | [16:18] |
| jfw: | heh, and the v1 would be instructive in further planning I expect | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | quite. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | it's more important to not get it catastrophically/fundamentally wrong, that's about it. | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | that said, there IS a cost to having clients change versions though | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | hence my question above whether this is a potential problem or to what extent | [16:20] |
| jfw: | I'll add that to the list to clarify with them. | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that is more to clarify with dorion really; they won't *know* to tell you exactly, how could they? | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you'll get an answer if you ask but … | [16:21] |
| jfw: | On reviewing the trilema wallet articles he linked, it looks like I've covered most of the points, except for things like better accounting functions and programmable input selection, which I'd think can be added later once better specified | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | so then it sounds like best to get v1 working really. | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: also, there is that thing: fewer questions to the clients, it's enough that they pay for it!! | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [16:24] |
| jfw: | "they won't *know* to tell you exactly" – indeed, I'll keep the pressure on him then :D | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | heh, have fun. | [16:25] |
| jfw: | Do you have any thoughts on plain-text representation of structured data – S-expressions vs JSON and so on? (I wouldn't touch XML if I don't have to, lol) | [16:26] |
| jfw: | Know if there's a preferred standard in Ada-land? | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I am not aware of an Ada standard as such; thinking of it now, I would expect it's not a huge headache to implement either really but I haven't spent the time to consider/compare why one or the other. | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose it depends on what you want you want to interface with further really | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | I'll be awk for a while. | [16:45] |
| jfw: | ah sorry. Indeed, depends on what you want to connect it to. They can be easier to implement too if you pick a subset, of course that has its downsides too. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | calls to mind the discussions of whether there can be one all-purpose OS, or all-purpose libraries for that matter, or every app has to be its own special thing | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: thing is, you are not really either aiming to or in a position to enforce a standard through this wallet implementation. | [17:34] |
| diana_coman: | sure, do NOT go for xml! lolz | [17:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what would that imply here – that I should at least be picking an existing standard? | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it implies that whatever you choose now may still need to change later if it turns out that the preferred/final standard is a different one | [17:37] |
| jfw: | was I a pain again with the not acknowledging back there btw? perhaps still need to remind myself of the basic etiquette. | [17:37] |
| jfw: | mm ok | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I simply had no idea if you got/read that or not; it does make for a bit of funny stuff as it is a matter of basic feedback, yeah. | [17:39] |
| jfw: | noted then. | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but as far as I understood the situation now, the focus was on getting a *working* version that keeps to republican fundamentals and that hopefully you can further iterate upon as you gain experience with your biz. | [17:41] |
| jfw: | that's right | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, I'm also not that sure that dorion's point was re getting it perfect now or something, eg "sufficiently extensive talks upfront and relatively less time coding than a brief terse exachange and longer than expected coding time." – this reads to me more like making sure it's clear what is to implement and how long it will take ie clarifying not perfecting. | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | then again, you talked to him, not me. | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: put it also the other way: if you had this one extra month, what do you think would be delivered additionally? | [17:45] |
| diana_coman: | give him the options: this month like this or in January like that. | [17:46] |
| jfw: | I answered the "sufficiently extensive" point but he didn't quite clarify that I saw; perhaps I'm indeed over-interpreting. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | sigh; /me goes to read your talk there. | [17:48] |
| jfw: | what would be delivered additionally is something that's perhaps received more input from the wider republic – although it's possible that such feedback can't be accomodated by January, e.g. if it's to rewrite in Ada or something | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that's not something feasible on that scale by end of January, no; and do NOT even think of re-writing it now because you can get an extension, GAH. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: he said correctly " What gaps remain ? What questions arise now in reading these articles ? Let's go ahead and leave our questions as comments on those articles." – that's about as much additional feedback you can get and then see if it squeezes through in this implementation; so: any questions there? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: tbh I think he stated there quite clearly for each point what next so not sure what is left other than the above ie if there are further gaps and/or questions on the fundamentals there | [17:54] |
| jfw: | fair enough; I didn't see any big questions on the fundamentals, more on the details. Can check if there's anything that can be asked in the context of the articles. | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | and this "evaluate the usage within the context of the skills they either already had or are building through working with us" – so how well does this v1 fit what your clients learnt to use? to what extent would pushing the deadline to January increase this fit? | [17:55] |
| jfw: | I don't see it increasing the fit, they'd be learning something new building on existing skills either way. | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I thought you two were better at talking to one another, huh. | [17:56] |
| jfw: | we or at least I might be struggling a bit with the more async form | [17:58] |
| diana_coman: | so then tell him all that ie 1. fundamentally it's aligned and fine, will check details today/tomorrow and see if there are further clarifications to ask for at those articles 2. not much to gain in extending the deadline as v1 of the wallet as it is would be a reasonable fit and either way they would still be learning something new (though ahem, do note that there are *degrees* there ie how much of a leap) | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | 3. can iterate in principle more usefully once this version is out and in use (if that's the idea). | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: I think I covered there main points but see if there's anything else you had in mind. | [18:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I spoke with bestcomputersa and they informed me actually they do have ~one~ fx-8350 left. But they have no motherboard that supports it. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: not much use by itself, hm. | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so none of the local shops actually have all the components you wanted? | [18:03] |
| jfw: | thank you diana_coman; I will review the points. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: cococo did not and I have not heard back from pcgamingcr | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you have something more concrete re Jan delivery, add that eg if we push the deadline to January, we can also have this and that that might/might not make it slightly/not at all/a lot easier for clients to learn/use/whatever. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so at this point your options are either order parts from the US or otherwise change plans and build a ryzhen system, correct? | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and you know, reply to his points there eg will do etc. | [18:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Now that I know bestcompuersa has one fx-8350, i am checking to see if i can find any compatible motherboard in the other shops | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's risky because this sort of "have one" is dubious at best | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | what if in the end they..don't have it? or it's defective? or whatevers? | [18:07] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what was the main problem with ordering from the US? the customs? | [18:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: The experience for my test package was very smooth. The worry with ordering from US was extra trouble with customs for a bunch of electric parts + the lithium batteries on the motherboard. | [18:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The lithium battery on the montherboard is usually just a 2032 coin cell. It's the rechargables that usually cause trouble | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then look at most for the motherboard locally but other than that, it would seem that you'll need to find out the hard way how it works with the customs; aren't there any agents doing this service? also: can't any of those shops *order* the stuff for you? | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | did you ask them? | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | ie fine, they don't have them; can they order for you the list you give them? | [18:11] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: will review & ack *all* the points then, right. | [18:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I asked bestcomputersa and they said their provider does not supply them anymore | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | (though I have to admit that they sound infuriating already) | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: as I was saying: infuriating; lolz; I'd say look into ordering from the US, it is what it is. | [18:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes it is one guy I have spoken with and it is a pain to communicate with him. Apparently he found this extra fx-8350, but he did not tell me until I called. I think I err'd early in the conversation by letting out a sigh and saying that the out of date website cost me a bunch of time. | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I don't recall: did you look for/were there any forwarding agents? | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | or was it through one of those that you ordered that test delivery? | [18:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was investigating them, but then when hanbot gave me the list of stores I dropped it and just sent one test package through boxcorreos – the one recommended by locals here. Everything went A+ smooth | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | so then try them further, why not | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do investigate if there are others and/or which ones though, not like you can't use a backup option if at all possible. | [18:17] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Heh okay I will send a test package through another service as well. That said if I get 00 worth of equipment jammed in customs through boxcorreos I'm going to be pretty hesitant to try again with another one. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: but anyway, the investigation of other agents is task on the list for the future, not like you won't have *other* stuff to order, I'm sure. | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | well, if you get it jammed, you unjam it, no? | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | and that doesn't quite parse/make sense there: so if those fail, you won't try ….others? why/how? | [18:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have a bad experience of going to Guatemala for a local artist to pick up four bags of Flor De Madera, a wood that is distorted through fungal growth. The customs agents took all four bags and torched the wood because we didn't have a paper saying that it was treated. | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you know, those test packages might also not test all that much because different stuff, significantly different value from what I understand so …it's a very basic test, more along the lines of "do they actually do this thing *at all*"? I can see why even that needs testing, sure, but I wouldn't then take it to mean too much if they passed that. | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: from what I understood, Guatemala is shitty beyond definition ; I can hardly picture ticos torching anything really,lol | [18:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: that is so re Guatemala being complete shit | [18:24] |
| diana_coman: | not to mention that computer parts are hopefully not distorted through fungal growth so maybe there's a bit less to treated or not treated papers, lolz. | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: if you must, I suppose you can simply order them in batches but not really sure it's worth it really | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | up to you that part | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mk. I think I would do it in one go. I am only ordering three parts (video card / motherboard / processor) | [18:27] |
| whaack: | at least for now | [18:28] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: all right. | [18:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: BioGoop(TM)(R) tends to be what really puts customs agents on alert | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what was the mk for, anyway? | [18:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | It's the stuff that they get hit hard on when it passes through. Stuff like mysteryexoticwood in the world of border guards is how supertermites and crop blights spread | [18:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Ah it was to acknowledge the suggestion of ordering them in batches. Maybe I am using mk incorrectly | [18:32] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: mk!=ok ; mk ~= I don't quite agree but I won't argue/explain now. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | do not copy without knowing what you're copying, ugh. | [18:34] |
| whaack: | I guess I had a notion of that, because that is tangent with what I was trying to say. I.e. I acknowledge the suggestion..but I also don't think it's worth it | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | except if it's "I also", there's no mk, lolz. | [18:35] |
| diana_coman: | it's just plain ok ie you agree there, what | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, not a huge thing now. | [18:36] |
| whaack: | lol okay I am not completely unaware of the "mk" I just understand it means different things in different contexts and also based on tonality if it is actually said out loud. | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | all right, next time link the sound file :P | [18:39] |
| whaack: | :) | [18:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I have been asked to go surfing together by a different surfpal who I have consistently been turning down. May I go surf with him tomorrow morning? | [19:08] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-23-Nov-2019#1011237 << well that was a piece of excuse-making huh. I quite expect there is room for us to improve our communications so thank you diana_coman for exposing some instances on my side. | [20:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-23 17:58:58 jfw: we or at least I might be struggling a bit with the more async form | [20:39] |
#ossasepia Logs for 22 Nov 2019
| whaack: | EOD report: Completed all missions during my trip to town: went grocery shopping, got a CR phone so I can tether for backup internet (i am sending this message while connected via the backup phone), picked up my test package from boxcorreos (a 5 uv light inside of a cage that attracts bugs + electrocutes them), and got various household tools / other items from the hardware store. The total time for that process was roughly 6 hou | [01:31] |
| whaack: | rs. I then spent the evening unpacking the items + doing home improvements. | [01:31] |
| whaack: | I've been making some stupid mistakes throughout the day that cost time, for example I put the sim card for the phone in the wrong slot and had to spend 20 minutes fiddling with a toothpick to get it out. However I have not been burning time via activities that I use as escapes while avoiding ongoing problems. | [01:37] |
| jfw: | whaack: nice, how's it feel to have those items unpacked and put to use? | [01:56] |
| whaack: | jfw: quite good. | [02:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well done! | [03:35] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you are quite spot-on with that comment! | [03:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Thank you. I wore a proper pair of sneakers for the day's activities instead of my usual flip-flops. | [10:55] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ha! seriously, flip-flops are fine *for the beach* and only there, lolz. | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: are you getting the computer parts today? | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ha yes and even that is only for the short walk before you get to the sand where they come off. | [11:03] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to decide asap whether I should make a trip to SJ. If I am not making a trip I can start ordering parts today. | [11:04] |
| diana_coman: | what does that SJ/no SJ depend on? | [11:05] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I need to see if I can do a one day trip, come early in the morning, shop, come back same day, for a reasonable price. | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | tbh I thought it was more about whether you can get otherwise everything you need or not, lol; but other than that, I suspect that sooner or later you'll want to at least get once to SJ but perhaps it's easier later on when you get to the point where you can get a car, that might be. | [11:08] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I've been to SJ before | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | and had enough of it? lol | [11:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: aha well I never really explored it, just stayed at a friend's apartment for a night before going on a flight to Guatemala | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: but from my understanding it is not the nicest area | [11:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I just found out that I can drive Surfpal's car _to_ SJ since it would be convenient for him if I dropped it off there. | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you still need to get somehow back too though. | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | and sleeping in a town != been to town, lol. | [11:13] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: We did a little bit of exploring. I went to the top of some mountains with windmills that had absolutely gorgeous clouds at eye level | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: right, I don't think that having a one way ride there helps me at all. It would be more expensive for me to find a cab back | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | is there any bus maybe? | [11:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: That's something I'd normally pay to avoid, but since I can avoid the bus in one direction it is much more worth it. | [11:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Not that i'm too excited to have my first long drive be from dirt "road" Junquillal to San Jose | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | my sample of CR buses was very small but even so, there was one perfectly fine (long distance though to the Pacific from SJ) and one perfectly horrible, so I can see the pay-to-avoid, certainly; but in that case, if bus is not an option, then you pretty much have no other choice than not to go to SJ, not sure why consider it in the first place. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | there is that too. | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | do let me figure this out again: *why* are you even looking into getting to SJ? | [11:20] |
| BingoBoingo: | Down here the long distance busses are a different, nice contrast to the local ones | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that was my take on CR too; though after that I saw some "long distance" nightmares-on-wheels too so apparently it's not enough for it to be long distance, lol. | [11:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I suspect there are a variety of operators. Latinas tend to be *very* price sensitive | [11:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My thought was should there be a way to go to SJ it would be nice to avoid having to deal with the delivery and be able to see all the parts before I get them. Getting my chair was a small hassle, I had to be ~at the ready~ for 3 hours to drive to meet the delivery guy on the road on a nearby town. | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, I know how that works; the sort of price-sensitivity that whaack needs to get rid of too. | [11:23] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: while that sounds lousy, I suspect you'll find you do not really have to be at the ready all that much, if you handle the delivery guys properly; what, are they going to head back if you are not at the ready whenever they happen to drop by anywhere/everywhere ? | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | and dunno but going to SJ for the whole day + time on trip to avoid delivery hassle… uhm. | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | make the delivery more of a hassle for them if they are being idiotic about it than for you, what. | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | also, iirc it was a different company than the one with the chair, no/ | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [11:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: That happened with the chair on the first trip. They came on a Saturday (although they had told me it would be arriving the following Monday) and called with one hour notice, I missed it and thus they took it back lol. | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | well, they can go back and forth with it as much as they like, no? | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | you tell them and agree with them on some specific time window and you don't care about the rest, let them learn or something. | [11:27] |
| diana_coman: | I know time is not a Latina concept but still. | [11:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: You're right, the trip to SJ is a lot of work for no reason. I will just get the parts delivered. | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | sensible; and problem sorted too. | [11:28] |
| BingoBoingo: | Not like the thermal paste is going to cross the Caribean any faster | [11:29] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: thimbronion is helping with that specific item. | [11:29] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Nice. Still, there's only so much you can do getting some parts locally while others wait on transit. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for that matter, usually this sort of "delivery on an unexpected schedule" tends to rely on "if I don't answer, talk to the neighbours/friends/extended village" and so on so maybe consider that sort of help too; it's among the hassles/benefits of that sort of environment, what can I say. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | has never liked it but not for lack of experience with how it works. | [11:31] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I tried that. The chair company had both my number and my landlord's, and we had a friend who works in a nearby town who they could drop it off with should we not be able to meet them. Unfortunately, all 3 points failed – they couldn't contact me/my landlord and the person who works in the shop in the town was not there that day. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | aha, it happens. | [11:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: But it was not such a big deal. They just came again the next Tuesday. Overall the delivery experience with them + boxcorreos has been better than I had hoped for. | [11:33] |
| BingoBoingo_: | One way Latin thrift manifests is they'll walk around with their cellphone/fondleslab turned on, but habitually turn off the data "para no gastar" | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | aha, so don't avoid it and don't worry about their self-inflicted waste of time, just don't let it infect you too, it's on them. | [11:35] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Cool. I'll go ahead and try and make a connection with someone working there and start ordering the parts. | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | good. | [11:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Misc questions: (1) The big item left that I have not decided on is a monitor. From my understanding the most important aspect is that it has a high refresh rate and has an adjustable height + a swivel to switch to document (portrait) view. Are there other traits I should look for? Is there any point to dual monitor? | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the most important part is that you can fully adjust it to fit your setup ie so as to have a healthy position really; most current monitors now will probably be quite all right re refresh rate tbh; maybe anti-glare can help too; re dual monitor it all depends on your working style and if you don't yet know if you need that, then you ..don't need it yet. | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I never really got along with multiple monitors, it's enough I have to stare at ONE screen; but a reasonably big screen is useful. | [11:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I use to use two monitors… but then I read a thread in #t a while back that talked about how you can't focus on two documents at once anyways so dual monitors really just give another hotkey to alt-tab by moving your eyes. | [11:47] |
| diana_coman: | that's pretty much it, yes; that being said, it is true that I do have another monitor in the room but …not on the same desk, not for the same machines and not meant to be used at the same time; given as you are just building your first computer there, I really don't see why you'd need more than 1 monitor | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | (fwiw I even have several computers connected to *same* monitor in one setup). | [11:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: (2) Question two is should I get an anti-static kit or should I just find a strategy / household item solution to keep myself grounded while working on the machine? | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | hm, is that a problem there? | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | I never bothered really for everyday work as such. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | that being said, it's not a big deal to ground yourself either way. | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | so get one if you want one, what. | [11:55] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman, whaack : modern irons have fairly good static discharge protection internally. unless your hygrometer's usually below ~30\%, you don't need 1990s-style antistatics . | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform put it more plainly above, yes. | [11:56] |
| whaack: | I didn't think it'd be a problem in CR, but I wanted to double check my basic understanding of static electricity was not off by a negative sign | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: talking of which, you should at least know a bit about your indoors environment esp re humidity for sure. | [12:00] |
| whaack: | brb | [12:01] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I will add tools used to obtain awareness of my surroundings to the list of items for the next hardware store trip. Hygrometer (learned about that device today from asciilifeform's msg) and barometer are the first that come to mind. I will also try to get a wind-direction device (for surfing, i admit). Are there some others I should add? | [12:16] |
| whaack: | and thermometer, of course :D | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | heh; works. | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | won't suggest an astrolabe, lol. | [12:18] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: been struggling with getting thoughts together for the writing this morning. Word count isn't quite there but I'll publish. | [13:11] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: all right. | [13:25] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i have a cheapo min/max-tracking thermo/hygrometer in erry room which i inhabit or in which store valuable equip. rec to erryone. | [13:26] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: re: >1 display — must agree w/ diana_coman , folx who don't have a pre-existing serious reason for >1 display, oughta stick w/ buying 1 high quality screen | [13:33] |
| jfw: | Recursive loop analogies… you know how I think! | [14:48] |
| jfw: | gah, paste fail. | [14:48] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Nov-2019#1011078 – was glad to hear it. | [14:49] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-22 03:49:10 diana_coman: jfw: you are quite spot-on with that comment! | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you're welcome. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the work on the wallet going? | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: so… I come in shame to admit a fuckup. After contacting bestcomputersa I learned that what they list on their website has nothing to do with what they have in stock. If I were to categorize this fuckup I would say it is an example of throwing a pebble. Because their site said they had the product available I pretended I could move forward with that assumption. I will be slow to respond for a bit, I am stating this no | [15:40] |
| whaack: | w so as to confess my sins immediately upon realizing them. | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: gah, mk; listen, they are not amazon and the like so *call* them. | [15:42] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: going alright I think; though in working on time estimates, reviewing the code, and thinking further through the data structures and flow, I identified some details that weren't in the plan | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | heh; who could have predicted!!11 | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | all right; do shout if it gets out of hand/in trouble though, ok? | [16:17] |
| jfw: | I believe I predicted it myself! and will do. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | cool. | [16:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: certainly. The the correct course of action should have been seen then, and it is very easy to see now. They faltan the processor, motherboard, and video card. For processors they said they only carry the ryzen series now, but they do have an fx-8000. | [16:30] |
| hanbot: | whaack ugh, what a pain. i can't help but feel a little culpable by way of steering you there –i've always bought from them in person, and didn't realize they were doing the whole "stock list –in theory" thing. when you call, you might ask 'em if they'll order parts *for* you. | [19:34] |
| whaack: | hanbot: yes it's a pain but I should have shot them a quick email confirming they had the processor before picking the rest of the components around it. I have already spoken with them and they said they checked and their provider no longer has fx – 8350's | [23:15] |
#ossasepia Logs for 21 Nov 2019
| jfw: | diana_coman, your blog front page renders but articles all seem to be 404, e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/14/amito-data-centre-in-reading-uk/ | [00:25] |
| jfw: | mod_rewrite config I'd guess. | [00:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD report – Writing the backup scripts took a bit of time because I had to pay a lot of unix debt along the way. I have the basic design you laid out here with steps a,b,c. done. I still have some questions about how the file's permissions + group + owner are copied over that I will investigate later. I need to make projections as t | [02:00] |
| whaack: | o how long before my hard drive fills up, and also exactly what it is on my local computer I want to save. Lastly, I need to do a dry run of recovering my blog to make sure everything is in order. | [02:00] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: As for the '2h of planning for the hardware store / listing comp parts' i didn't get to do that w/ a specific block of time. But I did make progress on that front earlier in the day w/ speaking to the carpenter + the figuring out the ssd for my comp. Continuing work on this is my first priority for tomorrow morning before I head to town. | [02:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Nov-2019#1010996 – should be fixed now, thanks! | [03:39] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-21 00:25:15 jfw: diana_coman, your blog front page renders but articles all seem to be 404, e.g. http://ossasepia.com/2019/11/14/amito-data-centre-in-reading-uk/ | [03:39] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Nov-2019#1010999 – good idea | [03:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-21 02:00:08 whaack: o how long before my hard drive fills up, and also exactly what it is on my local computer I want to save. Lastly, I need to do a dry run of recovering my blog to make sure everything is in order. | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | hello Jeff78 | [03:41] |
| diana_coman: | ask in here Jeff78 | [03:43] |
| Jeff78: | Sure | [03:43] |
| Jeff78: | Can you tell me about to goal of ossasepia. and the platform on ossasepia.com? | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: this chan is basically the forum/discussion place/direct interaction for my YH (http://younghands.club/) project | [03:45] |
| diana_coman: | you can read the story on YH starting with http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/03/growing-young-hands/ (do note that you might need the IP directly for my blog 85.25.134.66 ) | [03:46] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: as to platform, what do you mean? ossasepia.com simply runs a customised version of wordpress really | [03:47] |
| diana_coman: | (as does younghands.club for that matter) | [03:47] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: how did you find this place? | [03:47] |
| Jeff78: | I've indeed read the part on younghandsclub. It difficult for me to understand though. | [03:47] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: there is a lot to it; but just ask further then; what are you stuck on? | [03:48] |
| Jeff78: | I will start of with reading the article here | [03:49] |
| Jeff78: | http://ossasepia.com/2019/07/03/growing-young-hands/ | [03:49] |
| Jeff78: | The reason I'm interested in your project is because I saw the domain eventix.de is directed to your project. I've started my own business recently after I graduated. To take it of the ground in germany I would be in need of the domain that is now pointing to your website. Would you be open to an offer from my side? | [03:50] |
| Jeff78: | If you actually using it thats fine too. I'll have to find another name haha ;) | [03:50] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: you might want to have a look at what others figured out too and/or the road they took to here, eg on their blogs | [03:51] |
| diana_coman: | eventix.de ? no idea | [03:51] |
| diana_coman: | lolz; what is this project about? | [03:52] |
| Jeff78: | Hahaha, did you see the redirect? | [03:52] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: I just switched IPs recently so it's possibly an old record somewhere | [03:52] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: I tend to ignore DNS and simply set the IPs in hosts file so not exactly bothered with all that | [03:53] |
| Jeff78: | Hmm that could be it. I was amazed because it didn't ooint anywhere a few weeks ago | [03:53] |
| Jeff78: | If people know where to find you IPs are fine haha :) | [03:53] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: so what's the project you are working on ? | [03:53] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, the people around here know and do; they are quite…knowing, like that. It's a bit the whole point around here, you know | [03:54] |
| Jeff78: | We're developing a ticket solution for cultural organisations to be able to sell their tickets without having to deal with high fees from companies such as ticketmaster. | [03:54] |
| Jeff78: | So I've had an interest in tracking the domain owner, but the whois records are set to anonymous | [03:55] |
| Jeff78: | So you're my only lead lol | [03:55] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: heh, the technical solution exists already really; there's a bot around those parts that does invoicing and payments and all that | [03:55] |
| Jeff78: | I know we're not the only one, but we aim to be the only free one :p | [03:55] |
| diana_coman: | to not have to pay high fees to ticketmaster and other similar slave-masters (because that's what they are), it's the people in those organisations you need to develop, not technical solutions | [03:56] |
| diana_coman: | they are in that poor situation because they don't know better, not because they don't have more tools really | [03:56] |
| Jeff78: | Oh definetely the technical solution is never the only part. You need to educate people. | [03:57] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: the bot here is free, you know? but yes, it's free *not for anyone* and if you don't mind me saying it, the "free for everyone" approach is an extremely poor choice. | [03:58] |
| Jeff78: | Do you have any idea of what was hosted on the ip before? Maybe that will give me a lead to the owner of the domain. | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: trouble is: what do you plan to educate them about/on? | [03:58] |
| diana_coman: | Jeff78: I have no idea but apparently that eventix thing was hosted there before,no? | [03:59] |
| Jeff78: | uhm, probably just pointed here. | [03:59] |
| Jeff78: | There was never really a website | [03:59] |
| Jeff78: | Its just some domain squatter. | [03:59] |
| diana_coman: | well, I don't mind it,lolz. | [04:00] |
| Jeff78: | But the ip probably hosted more websites by the same owner | [04:00] |
| Jeff78: | Thanks for your help anyway | [04:00] |
| Jeff78: | And for your interest in what im working on. | [04:00] |
| diana_coman: | no problem; maybe find some time and read around a bit, you might find more than you came asking for :D | [04:01] |
| diana_coman: | that's what I do around here: taking an interest in who people are and what they are working on; it reportedly… helps them. | [04:01] |
| dorion_road: | waves from vermont. | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | that's a long wave! good to see you made it though. | [11:06] |
| dorion_road: | diana_coman thanks. fog cancelled the afternoon flight from boston, ended up renting a driver to make the ~4 hour drive instead. got in later, but had had a nice conversation on the drive with a fellow traveler and made a connection so it worked out. | [11:11] |
| dorion_road: | to get caught up on log/blog reading. | [11:13] |
| dorion_road: | also, there's snow on the ground here, so that was nice to arrive to :) | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | enjoy! | [11:14] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. Is there a specific type of thermal paste I should buy? Is the arctic mx4 an acceptable option? I am planning to get 2 4gram tubes of these. | [12:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: That's probably a fine choice. Artic silver also probably a fine choice, but it is electrically conductive so gotta be very careful where it goes. When I do laptop heatsinks I usually use one of the artic ceramic pastes. | [12:35] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Cool, I will use the mx-4 then and be very careful where it goes regardless. | [12:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | More tubes of smaller size is better. You'll be using very little of it infrequently, so the next time you want to apply thermal grease it may be better to open the second tube instead of using the first again. I base this around the assumption thermal grease is a sort of glue and "bottle open time" is the enemy of shelf life. | [12:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's fine,yes; but buy small tubes, you won't need a ton for one single computer. | [12:40] |
| diana_coman: | ah, BingoBoingo already said it, huh; thank you BingoBoingo ! | [12:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | The most important thing is following the instructions. They vary by thermal grease. | [12:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: You're welcome. | [12:41] |
| whaack: | alright, I will get 4x 2g tubes. | [12:45] |
| whaack: | (the smallest size I see available on amazon) | [12:46] |
| jfw: | waves but will be pretty well tied up today. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | no worries. | [15:04] |
| jfw: | I look forward to your feedback on today's article and any direction for tomorrow's; a similar treatment of the WoT series would be my assumption. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for tomorrow pick better something from your original plan http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/planned-articles-as-of-october-2019/?b=something&e=#select | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | and do write it in the morning please. | [18:51] |
#ossasepia Logs for 20 Nov 2019
| whaack: | diana_coman: I believe I should also keep backups of my younghands posts. I am considering writing a script that just saves the html outputs because I imagine you have backups of younghands in its source form, and my use of the backups should younghands explode would be to review my weekly progress. I.e. it is not ideal but not the end of the world if I can't easily reconstruct a portion of the wp site. If I should go about backing | [02:13] |
| whaack: | up younghands in another way, please let me know. | [02:13] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you can always aim wget and mirror any site for that matter, not much of a script to write as such; but yes, do backup your yh posts for sure; and as a rule, you *always* do your own backups, no matter what others might or might not be doing. | [03:44] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you get that deedbot/invoice problem sorted? | [04:09] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: good morning. Boxcorreos has informed me that they need me to send me my passport # via email to be able to receive the test package i sent through them. Normally I would just go ahead and do so, but my attempt at a do-as-diana_coman-would-do mentality is giving me pause. The reason I am okay with sending plaintext passport #'s through email is "eh it's such an insecure system anyways, why bother putting an effort to | [13:02] |
| whaack: | protect the #?" | [13:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | They won't let you give them the number over the phone? | [13:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I can try calling them. | [13:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I thought of this but also I am not sure if its foolish thinking the phone is more secure. | [13:08] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Well to be especially paranoid, if it gets harvested over a voice channel whoever intercepts it has to burn more CPU turning it into a db entry. | [13:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | And its just a magic string. | [13:10] |
| BingoBoingo: | A magic string that's got most of its utility tied to an arbitrary artifact. | [13:11] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Well that last point I understand, but I don't see how it's an argument for or against giving them the number through the phone. | [13:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: I ran into this quite a bit after landing. Latino systems don't tend to be fucked the way US systems are. The local ID numbers aren't magic attractive ID theft targets like US Social Security numbers are. There's all sorts of rituals here where folks gotta check off having a number in their checklist. | [13:16] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I am aware of them constantly needing the passport number in LATAM. From my understanding police can do checks on hotels and ask for the passport numbers of all their clients, and if the hotel doesn't have them available they have to pay a fine. | [13:22] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: It is usually something I give out without second thought. I gave it recently through email to get my fancy chair delivered. | [13:23] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: The hotels thing is retarded pantsuit "anti-human" trafficking bs. | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it's not going to make any difference; call them since it's good for your Spanish practice but other than that, it doesn't matter. | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ha alright | [13:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: On a separate topic (jfw and dorion your advice is appreciated as well) for my possible parts list I would appreciate feedback on the motherboard and videocard. (of course feedback on all parts is welcome, but those were the two parts I feel most uncertain about) https://pcpartpicker.com/ warned me that the motherboard will not be compatible with | [13:32] |
| whaack: | the Fx8350 if it has an older bios version. On a forum I found a post saying that the incompatible bios version is from back in 2013, and thus the motherboard will most likely be compatible. | [13:32] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Your input is always very appreciated as well :) | [13:34] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: All I have to really say about the parts that hasn't been said is that the speed boost of a solid state disk is hard to pass up. | [13:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | One big advantage of desktop builds is getting multiple drive bays. | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is your cpu in the list of supported cpus for that motherboard or not? it should be in the specs there, no? | [14:03] |
| diana_coman: | also, I think you got confused re drives or it reads like that atm on your blog: you seem to have swapped a Kingston SDD for a SATA (mine is SATA, not SDD) | [14:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: /me sighs. Practicing 'unflinching honesty' I must admit that I managed to list the Seagate with "7200 RPM" thinking it was an SSD in my head. | [14:04] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | while I fully agree that using SDD gives a speed boost, tbh I never bothered with them on my desktops really, not like I ever *needed* that boost. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I use them in servers, sure. | [14:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: at any rate, there's nothing wrong with either option sdd or sata really, just know what you choose and why | [14:05] |
| BingoBoingo: | It seems to make a differnece if the computer is running a Bitcoin node, but a benefit of multiple bays is a small SSD large HDD combination can work | [14:06] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the yes was to having confused the drives btw, i will double check the list of supported cpus for the motherboard. I found the motherboard by checking the cpu's list of supported motherboards on a third party website. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: for btc node certainly. | [14:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: the SPEC! that is the reference, not whatever someone you don't know wrote on a website, gah. | [14:07] |
| diana_coman: | SSD* ofc, no idea why I keep writing it as SDD. | [14:08] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: fwiw i switched (incl. workstations) to 100\% ssd in '15, and it was the most subjectively pleasant upgrade ever had occasion to buy — much more palpable effect on e.g. compile times, etc than any cpu swap ever was | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and you know, that gigabyte website actually has categories, supported sockets etc; it's made to be useful, just use it and stop just looking around maybe someone else did all the thinking for you already. | [14:11] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: yes the cpu is supported as per the spec on gigabyte's website. | [14:11] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: I can believe. I guess at some point I'll finally move on with the times on this too or something, lol. | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then what was your question again? | [14:12] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There are different bios versions for the motherboard, and the pcpartpicker site warned the motherboard needed to have a more recent version. But at first pass from the spec website there are only two bios versions and the older bios is also compatible with the FX-8350 | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so it should work; and if it doesn't you certainly have something interesting to write about if the actual spec is false. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: re hdd atm go with ssd, you are probably better off getting used to them anyway; for that matter, why exactly did you not want that Kingston ssd? | [14:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: it seemed a good way to save ~00. as I said I brainfarted and thought the seagate was an SSD | [14:20] |
| diana_coman: | those "savings" of yours belong in that pile of stupid to burn. | [14:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: on second pass of the spec website, there are 2 revisions of the motherboard and bestcomputersa has the second revision. The second revision version of the motherboard appears to only have one bios version so I should be good to go. | [14:22] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman et al : re ssd/saving — i've found that 'samsung' is the only 1 that reliably serves for the 3-4yrs / 300-400 total overwrites given in the theoretical spec. i.e. you pay for the 'savings' of chinesium w/ sudden death of disks / total loss of contents. | [14:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I would like to understand the major price differences between SSD's that connect via SATA. For example there is the Maxtor 480 GB SSD that is ~100,000 colones cheaper than the Kingston | [14:24] |
| whaack: | well looks like asciilifeform has the answer lol | [14:25] |
| BingoBoingo: | Only a very small number of fabs make NAND flash. Right now Samsung is winning that race and they keep the best chips for end products with their own branding. | [14:27] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: yes, meant to add that if ssd then Samsung. | [14:42] |
| whaack: | alright i will double check again later but i can't seem to find a samsung ssd on hanbot's recommended sites. | [14:47] |
| BingoBoingo: | entered serious bids on the things I wanted, including the lots of SSDs, in the Pizarro auctions for reasons. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | what, are samsung ssds not found in cr ?? | [14:49] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: ftr: afaik best 'for the $' samsung item currently in print is the 860 series. | [14:51] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack et al : 'the miser pays twice'. last thing i'd miser on is hdd (esp. if you dun have a raid5.) but maybe that's just me, 'defending empty islands'(tm)(r)(mp). (will add, tho, that not 1 piz customer using full-width sata (vs usb rk) ssd's which i specced, had a disk failure, in the 2y of piz.) | [14:54] |
| asciilifeform: | another 'seekrit' — if you're installing ssd in a 'human' (vs racked, where massive air pressure already) machine — get a ribbed heatsink for it and place in direct flow from front fan. | [14:56] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Thank you. I will invest in a good ssd, look into the ribbed heatsink, and place the ssd accordingly. | [15:01] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: it could even be economical to mail order from usa, if must. worth a look at least. i had spare rk & drives shipped to BingoBoingostan from usa, it 'merely' ~doubled their cost. | [15:03] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: I may need to take you up on your offer here. Do you think you could gpg me an address where that I can send an SSD to? | [15:04] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-08 11:35:29 thimbronion: whaack: I'll be arriving in Liberia on Nov. 26th. If you want me to bring in some smaller items let me know. | [15:04] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Alright I will go with the 860 that connects via sata and use a courier service to get the drive to CR if i can't find it here otherwise / thimbronion is unable to help out. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if I read the latest article correctly, you looked in more detail at those tasks and mainly found that some are actually done, some should not take too long and a few more are not all that clear but have to be done; is this it? | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you should add the log discussion of yest as comment to yesterday's post. | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the status re cables and other needed small parts? | [15:15] |
| jfw: | hi diana_coman, that's correct about tasks | [15:16] |
| jfw: | I thought to add the discussion of the footnotes to yesterday's, but sure, can do the whole thing. | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's up to you really but don't you think it belongs there | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [15:17] |
| jfw: | I'll be reading the log closer shortly but I saw the invoice question, that is not resolved | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: did you check again? | [15:18] |
| jfw: | Can't hurt to save it, yeah, will be good to keep handy for re-reading. | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | that's the idea, yes. | [15:18] |
| jfw: | I didn't check again. | [15:18] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: i had your crate weighed & priced etc. at post office, it will go within 1d of when you're able to pay | [15:18] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: There has been very minimal progress there. I have only a list of tools I may want for building that I got from a website (screw driver set, forceps, anti-static kit, zip ties, and canned air) and two misc parts (ethernet cable, sd card reader) | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so check again first. | [15:19] |
| asciilifeform: | jfw: postage is 0.002 btc. | [15:19] |
| whaack: | (+ extra thermal paste in that list as well) | [15:21] |
| jfw: | roger asciilifeform. | [15:21] |
| jfw: | checked, still encrypted to wrong key, will ping in #trinque. | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you need to figure out a full list preferably before you go to the hardware store, no? and also, there are some basic things (such as a good set of screwdrivers, yes!) that you should have in the house ANYWAY. | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, do that. | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so based on this revised plan for the wallet, what's your estimated time required? | [15:23] |
| jfw: | afraid I haven't determined a number yet. | [15:24] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Yes I have making a list of items from the hardware store in my TODO list for tomorrow before I make the trip. I can also add that to today's tasks and push the backup scripts to Friday. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you will not push the backup scripts anywhere. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | well, you can push them to the front of the queue if you prefer, that much is fine. | [15:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I think the smartest move is to push saltmines down the list. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: works. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do say what you plan to do next, preferably without me asking for each and every step, all right? | [15:27] |
| jfw: | Alright. | [15:28] |
| jfw: | so, next step here is to figure out the time estimates, to make it entirely explicit. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | heh, and an estimate for the estimates :D | [15:29] |
| jfw: | lolz! 20:30 UTC. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | works, thanks. | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | I gather that the rest of the week's articles will not be still-wallet though, correct? | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ^ | [15:33] |
| jfw: | hey I'm back, power blipped and the net needed some fiddling to get back. (I had a UPS on that router, but battery died…) | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | lolz; had the battery-beeps-at-2am only the other day, ugh. | [15:47] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I do think I need to get back to other topics. I don't have any lined up atm besides the technical list. Anything you'd like to assign? | [15:48] |
| jfw: | (re blogging.) | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: iirc you still had some unfinished, didn't you? | [15:50] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: outta curiosity, what do you use for a ups ? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: look here: http://younghands.club/2019/11/04/jfw-plan-week-of-nov-4-2019/ | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: APC | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | well,atm it's.. more than 1 UPS but anyways | [15:52] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: for ~decade nao i use several 'liebert' GXT2-1000RT120 (on diff comps), they work a++ (so long as you remember to buy new cells erry 2-3y) ; formerly apc (of simil. size) , w/ apc had many headaches. | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: it worked fine for me for 6 years already, honestly | [15:54] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I had finished the joining yhc and wot series, or at least so I thought | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: now that's interesting; would you kindly link me to last article of each series, maybe I missed it somehow? | [15:57] |
| jfw: | I have a feeling you didn't miss and rather I've missed including something but: http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/the-road-to-ossasepia-part-6/ , http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/my-present-understanding-of-the-wot-part-2/ | [16:00] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2019/the-road-to-ossasepia-part-6/ you say there yourself that there was more you should be saying, don't you> | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | and lolz @ uncategorized; that does say something too. | [16:04] |
| diana_coman: | re WoT series, it doesn't quite come together and I suspect you didn't really have a very clear idea as to what you wanted to say overall either; or did you? | [16:07] |
| jfw: | more I should have been saying – I did; if there's more, it hasn't "loaded" yet, though perhaps for lack of trying | [16:09] |
| diana_coman: | if you considered it done anyway, what was there to load, ofc. | [16:10] |
| jfw: | on WoT, I did say the things I wanted to, but perhaps those weren't clear / coherent enough | [16:10] |
| diana_coman: | carrying over from #t : http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-11-20#1951634 | [16:13] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2019-11-20 diana_coman: I've moved ossasepia.com to 85.25.134.66 where I hope it will stay for longer really; please update hosts files accordingly and sorry for the repeated moves; I've updated DNS records too but those might take a while, as they do. | [16:13] |
| jfw: | new IP works. I'm not seeing 20:30 happening for that estimate | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: there would be quite a few things to say even when reading both parts of the WoT articles together but at the very least, you can't just plonk at the end something like if this works and then leave it at that. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | thanks for testing the IP. | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | the more appropriate title there would also be "my present thinking on the potential-maybe-perhaps? role the WoT might (one-day-if-it-aint-borked-really) play (but I won't stake my word on it either way!!)" | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, I'm messing up your deadline :D | [16:21] |
| jfw: | hmm. my thinking there was, MP's claim if I recall was that the WoT does the things it does far cheaper than any possible alternative – something I'm not sure I have the knowledge to claim on my own. I'd imagine then that I should have handled this by stating it as such | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes and with reference(s), ofc; the point is not about claiming something you don't know; the point is about giving a round account of whatever issue you choose to talk about; reader can't read your mind, what. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how do you plan/choose what should go in an article? | [16:28] |
| jfw: | Can't say I have a well understood process there. Something like: I list points I can think of about the topic; consider what overall points I want to make; see what fits and in what sequence, and what else comes to mind as I go | [16:31] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do you see any problem there? | [16:33] |
| jfw: | lack of coherence, or understanding of the proposed path to take the reader from one point to another as I recall you've put it | [16:35] |
| jfw: | also it doesn't seem to give a good structure to support the process; more intuition than clear reasoning | [16:38] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: coherence you might even get in principle (you say you do look for the sequence so probably with enough iterations you can get there) but what you can't get at all with that approach are those pesky parts that you might not yet know about the topic to start with; and this can easily feed into your "sweat blood to write" really because if you don't yet know enough, you are quite stuck. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | basically your process there – whether knowingly or not – focuses on your thoughts, not on the topic. | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | you need to actually look at the topic and start cutting out the scope as it were; cutting it out as neatly as possible out of the whole world with which it is connected, of course. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | if you try to write solely from within your head, no wonder you find it hard on non-tech: you probably don't have the same depth that you simply get by direct practice on the tech. | [16:44] |
| jfw: | huh. how does one go about looking at a topic if it's not already in head? Or would that be the wrong thing to try and rather read more until it is? | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it might not be *all* in head yet and then yes, you find you'll need to read more before you can write about it. | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | you start ofc with what you have but that's a starting point | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | and whether you have enough or not depends on how well it covers all the aspects or how many it basically leaves hanging/not even spotted. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | sure, by the end of it, you'll have it (hopefully) all in head but ..not always at the start too. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | so in that case you'd be trying to write on a topic, realize there's something missing, go back to digging, then pick it back up? | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: say I ask you to write next week an article on Aspasia of Miletus; are you going to just write what you already know? (how much do you know?) | [16:51] |
| jfw: | ~0 | [16:52] |
| jfw: | I would research it. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | eh, so I chose it well; precisely. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | how do you research a topic and when do you decide you researched it enough? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | if you realise at writing stage that something is missing then yes, you have no choice than to go back and dig, what can you do; but that is rather poor initial plan & research there. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what research did you do for the WoT? | [16:55] |
| jfw: | I search the web for references, or ask people who know about it for theirs; and I'm not sure how I'd decide when is enough. The old negative space / unknown unknowns | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: negative space is not the very same as unknown or even unknown unknowns (so better & rather than /), see the discussion there. | [16:57] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-03 12:39:20 diana_coman: dorion: what's the difference between negative space and blind spots? | [16:57] |
| diana_coman: | unknown unknowns may be uncovered by considering the negative space, sure; but one term is not shortcut for the other. | [16:58] |
| BingoBoingo: | every year sends an increasing portio of my queries to google with the "site:address.tld" operator than without | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that is true for me too, | [16:59] |
| jfw: | for the WoT, I re-read http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/ ; I knew there was http://trilema.com/2014/advanced-wot-course-how-the-wot-is-attacked-and-how-it-defends-itself/ as well, which I'd read at one point but didn't reread on this pass | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: tsk; and why didn't you re-read it? | [17:00] |
| jfw: | I had taken the assignment to be efficiently expressing my own present understanding of the topic, There'd be even more to read in logs too I'm sure, but I wouldn't know where to look or when to stop | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but then why did you re-read the first one? :D | [17:02] |
| jfw: | haha, thought you might ask as I wrote that. As I recall I had re-read it recently, after you'd first asked me about the topic. Sooo, I suppose because it was fresh in memory; I had an idea of what to look for when consulting it | [17:06] |
| jfw: | and yeah I better revisit the negative space discussion too, heh. Thought I'd got the distinction but probably not quite. | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: mind there that you seem to be quite good at talking yourself into anything you choose really, lol. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how about you re-read those 2 mini-series of your own writing and do a proper analysis there ie extract the theme, structure and scope + look at the result and how good it is? | [17:11] |
| jfw: | does that mean getting to the bottom of the WoT topic as well or can this be done just based on the articles themselves? | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | (this should not plunge you into a lot of research this week since you still have to focus on the wallet really) | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for now you focus on what you wrote already, so no, not getting to the bottom of the WoT topic just yet. | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | basically a vivisection of what you've got, to see if there are perhaps even obvious missing limbs for instance. | [17:15] |
| jfw: | I worry that if I was blind to them at the time I'd still be blind now, but will give it a try | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: 1. why worry ? 2. do you have/know now the exact structure & scope ie would you be able to just give it now in 1 para for each? | [17:17] |
| jfw: | ah, at least after re-reading I surely would | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | eh, after re-reading, yes. | [17:18] |
| jfw: | *right* now, I'm not sure I could | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, it's easy then: do a re-reading tomorrow and extract theme, structure and scope for the road to ossasepia series, write them analytically bullet-point style and then see what you can say about them | [17:19] |
| jfw: | cool | [17:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Updated our plan per discussion http://younghands.club/2019/11/18/wh-plan-for-week-6-nov-18th-nov-24th/#comment-153 . The past 1.5hours I was eating lunch + coordinating with the desk carpenter. I also went over with him a set of home improvements I need. Now i'm going to tackle the rsync man page. | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: works. | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Should I read the details of rsync via rsync daemon? | [18:22] |
| whaack: | nvm, i will read it even though you said to use ssh, the section on rsync daemon is not long. | [18:31] |
| jfw: | sounds proper, whaack; daemon mode (or at least knowing the syntax for connecting to one) does come in handy sometimes, it's popular with mirror sites | [18:39] |
| whaack: | jfw: mm makes sense | [18:39] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: I will send you a gpggram later tonight. | [19:11] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: tyvm! | [19:11] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: np | [19:12] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Can I confirm with you that this is an acceptable choice of SSD from Samsung? | [20:04] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: good thing you asked : this one is their shit-unit (4 bits per cell), is fit to stoke furnace. i'ma guess you found it by 'lowest price to the penny' lol. | [20:05] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Lol good thing indeed, yes I choose the cheapest option under the '860' series | [20:06] |
| asciilifeform: | you want 'evo' or (if you're launching into orbit, as i did in 1 box in uy) the costlier (and ~10-20\% longer-lived) 'pro' . | [20:06] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: i oughta have said specifically. apol. to whaack et al & diana_coman for the added log kilometrage from this. | [20:07] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: imho 'pro' cannot be justified in a box that you can easily physically get to & swap disk in. | [20:09] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Yes. I was just typing that it seems wisest to get evo and just make sure I back it up (as I plan / am assigned to do anyways) | [20:10] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack: back up to a traditional mechanical hd. | [20:12] |
| whaack: | asciilifeform: Will do and I'll post the hard drive I pick for the purpose. Right now I am using an external Seagate Backup Plus Slim – I picked it off the shelf as I was stuffing bag for CR. | [20:19] |
| whaack: | thimbronion: msg securely received. That said I plan to put your addy through the heathen pipes on samsung's website on an order tied to my card. If there's another way you would like me to order the ssd to you, please let me know. For example I can reimburse you with cash here if you'd prefer to order it yourself. | [20:26] |
| thimbronion: | whaack: it's fine to use my info | [21:53] |
| whaack: | cool | [21:54] |
| jfw: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Nov-2019#1010606 << he made a valiant effort but didn't quite manage the 30. Beverage was delivered too. | [23:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-18 14:26:39 dorion: looking forward to delivering the 30 punches and a pinch to grow an inch. | [23:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-11-19 17:57:26 diana_coman: you clearly owe him a cerveza for that at least, lol. | [23:13] |