| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/22/wh-review-of-week-10-dec-16th-dec-21st/ << Young Hands Club -- WH Review of Week 10 (Dec 16th - Dec 21st) | [01:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: EOD Report: I finished the daily article + wrote my review + plan for next week. I was quite tired and even took a 30 minute nap after the birthday party and drank coffee at 4pm to get the article+review+plan done. I am waiting until tomorrow to do my 30 minutes of planning for my next article. Tomorrow I will be building my computer. | [01:36] |
| feedbot: | http://younghands.club/2019/12/22/wh-plan-for-week-11-dec-23rd-dec-30th/ << Young Hands Club -- WH Plan For Week 11 (Dec 23rd - Dec 30th) | [01:37] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013506 << I agree. I'm going to pick up that point in trilema right now. | [13:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 07:03:00 diana_coman: trinque: after reading the latest OS related thread in #t, it does seem to me that there's still a lot that should be discussed in #t though; tbh thinking on this, I'm not sure there's a single place for it *all* ie I can easily see different threads (all related in some way or another to "tmsr os") belonging to each of the chans really (#trilema, #o, #trinque). | [13:06] |
| trinque: | also diana_coman, I would benefit from your view on whether a business around tmsr os is viable, premature, what. | [13:08] |
| trinque: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-19-Dec-2019#1013556 << did you write this? runit already exists, and is exceptionally small | [13:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-19 16:19:07 whaack: diana_coman: Tackling the two headed beast, I am going to be splitting my time between reading the books recommended by trinque and moving forward with the irc project. I am starting to read The Art of the Metaobject Protocol right now. Later today will work on setting up a process monitor. The process monitor will run on a separate machine, and check every ~2 seconds to see if TheFleet is running. If it detects the process is dead | [13:09] |
| trinque: | I have intended to have runit as process 1. | [13:10] |
| trinque: | as it happens, a stripped-down runit lives in busybox already. | [13:10] |
| trinque: | has process supervision, etc. | [13:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: great news! /s the helpful ticos already assembled the computer for me. They kept the packaging light+compact, leaving out the boxes for the various parts (w/ their instruction manuals). Oh and they left out the sd card reader entirely, which they informed me after I asked to confirm I had everything while picking up the package from the mail. | [13:20] |
| whaack: | I'm going to post pictures of how they assembled it, find all the manuals online, start disassembling the computer, and then put it back together. | [13:26] |
| trinque: | heh, turn it on first eh? save yourself some "did this ever work?" later | [13:27] |
| whaack: | trinque: well it's 90\% assembled, except the hard drives i ordered separately so they are missing. | [13:36] |
| trinque: | just saying not to mess with a system in all manner of ways prior to taking some measurements of initial conditions. | [13:36] |
| whaack: | trinque: alright i'll examine it + turn it on before I change anything. | [13:38] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: When you do get to disassembly, see how they handled the thermal interface between the CPU and heatsink. | [13:42] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: I was curious about that since I have my thermal paste out on the desk. I'll take note. Is there anything I need to be particularly careful about / watch out for while disassembling? | [13:46] |
| whaack: | The photos: http://ztkfg.com/2019/12/the-preassembled-machine/ | [14:32] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack just if the heatsink and CPU take a LOT of force... they may have used epoxy. When you apply the new thermal paste make sure all of what they used is removed. | [15:01] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: thx | [15:05] |
| trinque: | dude this "ever helpful ticos" thing is real. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Dec-2019#1013681 - indeed, I'll fix it, thank you. | [15:40] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-21 17:03:29 bvt: diana_coman: link to http://ossasepia.com/vpatches/ffa_w_borrow_expr.vpatch.diana_coman.sig is broken on the reference code shelf, (it has .kv. in the href) | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-21-Dec-2019#1013686 - well, talk to him since it's anyway better for you to talk to intelligent people; and don't worry either way, let him figure out (or not) stuff, what. | [15:42] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-21 22:08:35 whaack: English. Although unfortunately for him I worry that he bites into the US politics fast food too much. I have another close friend from Stuy, but same things with the politics + he has gone down the dark path of California and SV monopoly money like most of my MIT buddies. | [15:42] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: we keep in touch and him + the doctor friend recently planned to visit me in the beginning of March | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | do return the visits some time too though, at the very least. | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013694 - hm, what do you have in mind as "business around tmsr os"? I get the impression you mean something quite clearly defined but I don't really know what. | [15:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:08:34 trinque: also diana_coman, I would benefit from your view on whether a business around tmsr os is viable, premature, what. | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013700 - ahaha; this is...unexpected. | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:20:47 whaack: diana_coman: great news! /s the helpful ticos already assembled the computer for me. They kept the packaging light+compact, leaving out the boxes for the various parts (w/ their instruction manuals). Oh and they left out the sd card reader entirely, which they informed me after I asked to confirm I had everything while picking up the package from the mail. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: lol, I think they did it to save money on shipping | [15:47] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Dec-2019#1013704 - second this! | [15:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 13:36:37 trinque: just saying not to mess with a system in all manner of ways prior to taking some measurements of initial conditions. | [15:47] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: and yes I will return the visits. From one perspective, they are now the ones returning my visits. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: thing is, this sort of "helpful ticos" is precisely how they make the worst messes, the "helpful clueless" so ugh. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [15:50] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: mhm. I am even concerned about turning on the machine. | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: didn't you talk to them when you picked it up? ie you expected to pick up a pile of components and ...it wasn't that so ? | [16:23] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I sent them a picture of the box (unopened) and I asked "have I picked up everything?" having been surprised because it just looked like the box for the case, I expected there to be a few other little boxes. They responded, "yes, everything is in there, except we couldn't get the sd card reader." So I took the box home, but I did not open it until today when I realized it was preassembled. | [16:25] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, did you even get all the docs at least? | [16:27] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: No the box is missing a few manuals most noteably the one from the motherboard. | [16:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Or did you mean mounting docs? There was nothing other than what was inside the Case other than the extra cables from the modular PSU and two sata cables. (Also you might have meant did I find the manuals online - I am searching right now.) | [16:30] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: I meant the manuals for each component, yes. | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | so ugh indeed, what a mess; I'd say turn it on and see what happens - if anything! (or possibly they even installed Windows!) | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | and then you'll probably have to call them anyway, at the very least to give them a piece of wtf, have them send the manuals and explain just how does "those components" end up as "this 2nd hand machine you sent me" because seriously now, how do you even know it's new? | [16:34] |
| trinque: | http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2016-08-06#1515840 << reminds me of | [16:35] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2016-08-06 trinque: https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=20015 << if the world ever rights "helpful" is going to be a euphemism for "tries to slip dick in when you turn your back" | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: lol, if only they even had what to slip at all. | [16:38] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Didn't even occur to me think about the 'not new' scam. Turning on the machine did nothing. | [16:39] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: knowing a bit re ticos, I would even be inclined to say they probably didn't think of it either, lol; but it's still the sort of very, very unhelpful help; the "good intentions" that make that road to hell basically. | [16:41] |
| whaack: | is worried that the power cables may have been plugged into the motherboard but not the psu itself (hidden from view) and thus I may have fried the PSU for flipping the switch. | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, that's on *them* | [16:42] |
| trinque: | how'd not being plugged in fry something? | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: now I realise I can't quite parse that frying-sentence; what is it, again? | [16:46] |
| whaack: | I was warned in the guides I read about PSUs that turning on a PSU without having it connected to the motherboard would fry the PSU because it would have some complete circuit without a load. | [16:47] |
| whaack: | "Attach the power cables now. If you forget about them and later fire up your computer while the ATX connector is not connected to anything, then you will fry your computer's power supply. Computer power supplies need a load attached to the main power connector or else they will burn out when you plug them in." From https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble3.php | [16:48] |
| whaack: | (Of course that would be on them, but I don't want to have to pay for their mistakes if I can avoid it.) | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so you mean a shortcircuit? not sure why worry specifically about that though because from what you say, it might be that *nothing* is connected. | [16:51] |
| whaack: | yes I mean a short circuit | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | and no, if it's on them, it means specifically that *they pay* for it, not you. | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | what sort of "on them" is it otherwise, lol. | [16:52] |
| whaack: | well i'm going to have to pay with my time regardless | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: that you already have to pay anyway because you got something other than what you ordered and so there's more work to do, clearly. | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: anyway, I think first step is to have a good look at what's in there + decide what are you going to do about it ; second step is anyway to call them. | [16:54] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: already called them, but they're closed on Sundays | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | right, lolz. | [16:55] |
| trinque: | mmmm, pretty sure PSUs are turned on by a closed circuit being formed by the motherboard. | [16:57] |
| trinque: | there are some pins that get connected by pressing the power button, which in turn tells the PSU to fire up power on the other pins. | [16:58] |
| whaack: | trinque: that's what makes the most sense to me, i don't see how the PSU is going to have a short circuit that gets broken by being plugged into the motherboard. That's why I spelled out short circuit as 'it would have some complete circuit without a load' | [17:01] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: It's hard to see what might be the pin headers on this motherboard. | [17:02] |
| BingoBoingo: | At least from the given pictures | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: did they actually assemble the computer or just stuff everything in the case ? those pictures are pretty terrible btw, can't see much. | [17:03] |
| whaack: | sorry, I will upload better pictures. It looks like it is assembled but the power switch not doing anything makes me question. I am perhaps derping and missing some switch I need to flip on the motherboard. | [17:03] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: There should be a block of pins on the board where various cables from the case including the power button get attached | [17:04] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: Pretty sure those are the cables in the top right of the motherboard in the picture | [17:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Is the other side cover of the case readily removable? | [17:07] |
| whaack: | BingoBoingo: yes...just a few screws. I'll include a view from the other side for the new pics as wel. | [17:09] |
| BingoBoingo: | whaack: Aite. In addition to taking pictures, follow which wires are connecting what things. | [17:10] |
| whaack: | i'm goign to try to remove the PSU cover rom the case as well | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hopefully you know that even cases have some docs to help you figure out what/where/how if it's not obvious (I've seen some cases that can be rather puzzling indeed) | [17:32] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the case manual is one of the few i have, it is a thick little booklet | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: well, you don't need to do a full detailed read right now, just to figure out what/where/how really so you can even know how to get to stuff /if it's in the right place anyway. | [17:36] |
| whaack: | kk. (I'm holding off on posting new pictures because they will not be that useful as the important stuff is hidden.) | [17:37] |
| whaack: | oh man I derp'd pretty badly. There was another on switch I missed on the other side of the case. | [17:40] |
| whaack: | an on button* I only flipped the on switch | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: listen, set the new toy aside for a bit and decide first wtf are you going to do exactly. | [17:41] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: My plan is to (1) test it can turn on (2) read all the instructions of putting it back together + the various manuals I find online. (3) dissemble/reassemble it and then use it. I fucked up step (1) embarrassingly, but my plan is the same. | [17:47] |
| asciilifeform: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-12-22#1013747 << 1990s ps needed min. load. current-day ones, generally not. | [17:48] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-12-22 20:40:06 whaack: "Attach the power cables now. If you forget about them and later fire up your computer while the ATX connector is not connected to anything, then you will fry your computer's power supply. Computer power supplies need a load attached to the main power connector or else they will burn out when you plug them in." From https://www.kitchentablecomputers.com/assemble3.php | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: fine but before pushing buttons, inspect that all parts are in place and connected, you know? visual inspection is part 1 of assessing the darned thing esp when it's not what was expected. | [17:48] |
| lobbes: | I will say this helpful-ticos thread has been educational for me. I wager I'd be in a similar boat as whaack if this had happened to me | [17:49] |
| whaack: | lobbes: what boat am I in? lol | [17:50] |
| lobbes: | whaack: from you article you said you had zilch experience for computer assembly. I too have this zilch | [17:52] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I was/am doing that. I just saw your instructions 'turn it on and see what happens' and so i flipped the power switch and raised my fist 'goddamn nothin!' and then during my inspection realized 'oh right, power button in addition to power switch' | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | ah, I see; lol. | [17:53] |
| whaack: | i even pulled out the damn multimeter on the power cable lol | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: how's that ebuilds write-up coming along? | [17:53] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: it is coming along (and hint taken; will get back to work) | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: good; review+plan are also due today, right? | [17:57] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: this is correct. I will get those out too. | [17:59] |
| whaack: | on the bright side i get extra practice, computer disassembly + assembly. The preassembly is only a real problem because of the could-be-used-parts issue. I found the motherboard manual and I'm sure i'll find all the other missing ones online. | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: do you know the difference between intimated/intimidated, compromise/comprise? | [18:02] |
| whaack: | is thinking | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: for some context1 and context2 because it's getting painful to read this sort of mistakes. | [18:03] |
| whaack: | yes, i know the difference enough to know those are awful errors. | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: how come you keep making this sort of mistake though? | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: is this some sort of "if spellchecker did not complain then it's the right word" or what? | [18:07] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I proofread everything by reading out loud softly at the end, but yes I may be getting a false sense of confidence from the lack of a red squiggly. | [18:10] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: should I not have a spellchecker at all? | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: since you seem to be dependent on it rather than merely using it, yes, ditch it until you stop this nonsense. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: when you proofread - what are you looking for? | [18:15] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Loosely in the order of importance: ~ Unclear meaning, awkward wording, repetition, overuse of adverbs, misplaced modifiers, unclear antecedents | [18:19] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: I don't have a ready enumerable list, which is itself a problem. I also don't have 'spellchecking' in there because it's true I use spellchecker to spellcheck, and I guess my hope is that errors such as the above would be caught under the 'awkward wording' scan | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: heh, when you look at some code, do you have a ready enumerable list of "problems I am looking to find"? | [18:22] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: no | [18:22] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: it goes the other way around (as it usually does): you are not to look for "a list of problems" because you can't possibly list them all anyway (sure, with experience, you can make a reasonable list of most-usual and that will be better than nothing but it won't be great reviewing, no) | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | what you are looking for is the opposite: is this sentence/para/text-so-far clear, relevant, any good (here the def is fuzzier, obv)? | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | you can much more easily and usefully enumerate what the text should be than all the possible ways in which it can fail to be | [18:26] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay that makes sense. I need a list of do's rather a list of dont's. | [18:27] |
| whaack: | rather than* | [18:27] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: and more to the point, it gets again back to your pebble - even at review time, do NOT throw your pebble! you need to read it with a. fresh mind precisely so you can stand a chance at evaluating if it's any good (not if it's bad-this-way-or-that-way) and b. unsympathetic mind (aka it's your enemy's text rather than your own) | [18:28] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Okay. Part of the issue may be related to time management. I'm always pushing over a little over 1.5 hours for the article itself so I'm rushing the proofread process (the first one, at least.) I talk about this in my review, and I believe the problem is further upstream and my articles take longer because I have a mediocre outline from the previous day. | [18:33] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so take whatever steps you need to take to fix that, sure; also, ftr, if you find you need to adjust something, just say it + argue it, what's the trouble? | [18:33] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: What are you referring to when you say 'if i find i need to adjust something?' I am comfortable saying/arguing adjustments to your instructions if I think I have a good reason to. | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so then why exactly "rushing the proofread process"? | [18:38] |
| diana_coman: | that IS snowballing too, it doesn't magically become something else just because it got sort-of-done. | [18:40] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Well I am already going overtime with the rushed proofread process. And to be clear I am still proofreading for a decent amount of time and then taking a break and doing another proofread. I was okay with make 1.5 hour writing assignments 2-2.5 hours, but I believe if I spend more time than that then i'd be repeating the problem I had from the previous week. | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: so what exactly are you spending on what ? because now it's confusing what exactly is taking that much time. | [18:45] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: the bulk of wasted time comes from restructuring the outline of my article halfway through writing it. | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: hm; does the first review do much? | [18:49] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: well i think i measured before, i often do a major restructuring of part of the article or the entire thing during my first review. But if I do that, then I also do another proofread at the end of the restructuring. | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: something is off there because by the sounds of it you end up with 2 major restructurings and so yes, you are again pushing towards the original overkill; I'll see tomorrow your review and hopefully it's clearly stated in there just what you are doing. | [18:57] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: Alright thank you, but no my review does not clearly state an explanation of what i'm doing - it only mentions quickly what I think is the problem + a solution. | [19:01] |
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