Day changed to 2026-09-01
[02:57] Vivian Sporepress: my zigging results on rare item patches continue to be a grind these days; few smalls, few items per tiny and low quality. enum reading bounds float around 19-31 lbn. however, I did finally start getting some bonus skill items - so far just AMR and SMS q1. the luckiest tiny gave 108 LH q1.
[03:51] Wolfgang Middlesit: Vivian Sporepress, I don't have enough change to match that currently, sorry.
[04:14] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/08/03/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Aug-2026/#6316 - did I miss an announcement here? because I see Rainer Tracksnarl indeed has a bunch more bundles stocked, even compared to when I traded with him just a few days prior.
[04:14] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-08-19 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, took advantage of Rainer Tracksnarl's fresh supplies after his cleanup. Otherwise though the SM bundle is actually doable currently at least in principle as it takes tlc, lh, dm - but for my char at least it would take these in huge quantities so not quite sure how long it would take me to get hundreds of molluscs, lolz
[21:57] Raphael Nethersmell: testing unodostres
[21:57] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on the pacamenia and the skills.
Day changed to 2026-09-02
[03:56] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, I suspect the bundles emerged when Diana Coman had the sm ord to build.
[06:56] Raphael Nethersmell: i clicked a cdg ord for 640k q1. it's a couple maps away, so going to tinker away at it because the most I can carry is 484 at a time, which would require like 1.3k round trips. I've chewed through the first 40k of it, and popped out 10.4k cft q32 in a click as well as a couple of mini pops.
[16:20] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on finding the pacademia nut! That lh tiny sounds like a mini pop by itself. Is it a surprise otherwise though that tinies of rares yield few and low q?
[16:21] Diana Coman: Rainer Tracksnarl didn't advertise his latest cleanup and shipment indeed. It was though a few weeks back.
[16:22] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, congrats on the cdg ord pop, that's quite the stack of grass to tinker through. As a single-pile sort of thing it might be still the same to carry back the cdg or the resulting cft, I suppose it depends on how much cdg your char packs per resulting cft.
[16:22] Diana Coman: 10.4k cft q32 should keep one in ziggurating for a while too, nice
[16:24] Diana Coman: ftr and the log: a quick reset of the chat clientside can easily be done anytime by simply closing the client, deleting the local chat log in data/chat/Eulora\ 2.txt and then restarting the client
[16:39] Diana Coman: possibly renaming that chat log file rather than deleting it, at least if one wants to still have the full log of the corresponding chat room
[17:37] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/08/03/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Aug-2026/#6347 -- when I train exploring, I run : `bot explore drunkmove` which is dangerous because if you "set it and forget it" for too long you'll kill your char. I set a timer for 30 mins to remind me to stop the bot. the idea is it gets the most reps in during the training session (compared to a normal `bot explore pickall drunkmove stackall rest` i'd run when afk.
[17:37] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-08-24 (Eulora 2) Felicia Solecrimp: how can i train and make it more effective ?
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: for training zigging and crafting, I find the bot to be a bit slow. for zigurating, I'd preload the claims before your start the session, during the session you just need to click use & take all on the claim. also, building smalls & ords during training results in xk leaps.
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: for training crafting, i find using the console to load the table and use it while clicking takeall when the click is through to be most efficient. for crafting, training while making bct has been the most time efficient, though the limiting factor there is having the cft with which to make the bct.
[18:37] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6367 -- cft is 16% the weight of cdg and 17% the bulk. and at my current level it's demanding 90-132 cdg per click. at these rates it'll cost ~40 ct to craft it all, lolz. my plan for now is to make some delivery & training runs as my xp fills up.
[18:37] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-02 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, congrats on the cdg ord pop, that's quite the stack of grass to tinker through. As a single-pile sort of thing it might be still the same to carry back the cdg or the resulting cft, I suppose it depends on how much cdg your char packs per resulting cft.
Day changed to 2026-09-03
[01:11] Monroe Quarterslit: Raphael Nethersmell has achieved first rank among Best at Tinkering (PCs). Congratulations!
[08:44] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, tinkering work clearly showing, congratulations on the new rank!
[08:48] Diana Coman: quite the detailed observations on bot use, it's useful to see
[08:50] Diana Coman: ziggurating is more complex hence more steps hence the bot ends up slower overall for sure
[14:56] Wolfgang Middlesit: Nestor Nethercross, that's worth about 2.2k shells more than what you're offering.
[14:57] Wolfgang Middlesit: Nestor Nethercross, that's worth about 2.0k shells more than what you're offering.
[16:37] Raphael Nethersmell: Rainer Tracksnarl where are you?
[16:37] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, I am currently at -30.45 96.95 25.35 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
Day changed to 2026-09-04
[18:45] Felicia Solecrimp: Rainer Tracksnarl where are you?
[18:45] Rainer Tracksnarl: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -30.45 96.95 25.35 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[18:46] Felicia Solecrimp: Wolfgang Middlesit where are you?
[18:46] Wolfgang Middlesit: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -7.19 99.62 -29.06 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[18:49] Wolfgang Middlesit: Felicia Solecrimp, that's worth about 72 shells more than what you're offering.
Day changed to 2026-09-05
[16:17] Felicia Solecrimp: so I made an exchange it somehow finish but the coins got stuck there i dont know what i did wrong
[20:17] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, what happened exactly? what does it mean "the coins got stuck there"?
[20:21] Diana Coman: most likely it was only clientside getting laggy/out of sync and thus not showing in inventory. Fwiw there are no errors serverside.
Day changed to 2026-09-06
[06:45] Percival Platepress: Relocate x=0 z=-30
[06:50] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, i'm trying to give Percival Platepress a life line, we're wondering if he's in the underworld though because we're not seeing eachother when we go to the same location.
[09:43] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, he's not in the underworld, merely in a different sector. Deaths are still announced by the npc and otherwise he would be able to tell by the looks at least, not to mention the name shown in the Console's title. From what I can see, Percival Platepress seems to be currently in the Secluded Course of Verve.
[15:54] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, thanks !
[21:30] Ulrich Logfetch: PC Diana Coman has got 2.4m shells worth of Solid Branch and assorted loot while gathering. Congratulations!
Day changed to 2026-09-07
[17:37] Diana Coman: another remarkable that I can't build, sheesh
[17:40] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6365 - thanks. in offline convos with Raphael Nethersmell there was the idea that working the rare item patches would be the most time effective way to get cash or train up, thus my noting that it's not necessarily so. It might still be after all, as for instance I can't seem to build tiny cdg without a loss now, if I'm bundling the lbn myself
[17:40] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-02 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on finding the pacademia nut! That lh tiny sounds like a mini pop by itself. Is it a surprise otherwise though that tinies of rares yield few and low q?
[17:42] Diana Coman: perhaps it takes a different combination of skills
[17:43] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp's q9 bundles may be helpful in that regard, if she can get around to making them in quantity: most of my bundled cdg builds came out completely empty, but the few that worked averaged out to more than double the cost of the bundles.
[17:43] Diana Coman: what was the reasoning as to why more time effective on rares?
[17:43] Diana Coman: the bot has a command to bundle...
[17:43] Diana Coman: are you trying to build with ~no value?
[17:45] Vivian Sporepress: comparing builds with my own bundles in the 200-300 quality range with those purchased at q9, so indeed low value
[17:46] Vivian Sporepress: I believe we did notice that the PSS patch tended to give decent returns per click
[17:47] Diana Coman: dunno if it's obvious that 100q being the standard quality, anything with q below 100 is basically less than normally required, anything above is more and the player can in principle adjust whichever way they want but at the end of the day if one puts in ~nothing, it's more a marvel when one still obtains something than otherwise
[17:49] Diana Coman: at any rate, each player to their own, certainly
[17:51] Vivian Sporepress: hm. what makes it a standard quality? I thought it was a conventional base quality for measuring bv but hadn't noticed further significance...
[17:51] Diana Coman: fwiw in e1 it was in fact foxybot that got everyone to actually build their tinies because pre-bot people just threw them away as not worth the trouble (and only when noting with my data and other concrete incidents that in fact tinies may not add to much individually but overall can make quite the difference)
[17:52] Diana Coman: this being said, atm it seems that there is quite little other than tinies, lolz
[17:52] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, "standard" exactly as in "base quality" aka measuring bv aka significant exactly in this sense
[17:54] Diana Coman: specifically all the bv *fit* at that point, hence one can rely on it to do some calculations, no?
[17:54] Diana Coman: possibly the tinkering is clearer in this sense if you actually look at the ingredients, bundle and output values
[18:02] Vivian Sporepress: I've been meaning to do some plots of just the input vs. bundle values since that seems one of the more stable relations - in ziggurating sometimes the bundle value is just the lbn quantity * quality, but it comes out less at least on smaller numbers
[18:05] Vivian Sporepress: on tinkering so far I tend to get low bundle quality because the inputs aren't high quality and my recipe readings don't call for many
[18:06] Vivian Sporepress: I've also plateaued at q3 enums from gathering
[18:08] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, uhm, that sounds confused indeed if you are going from quantity*quality to ...value
[18:08] Diana Coman: lbn is bv 11 iirc, so probably that's why it works since at q10 it would be 1 so yeah, unit value, lolz
[18:09] Diana Coman: my enums are atm q4, had some q5, it keeps going slightly up and down like that
[18:09] Vivian Sporepress: sorry, I mean the bundle quality. which is proportional to qabv.
[18:10] Diana Coman: yes, but to the qabv of the bundle
[18:11] Diana Coman: it's really less confusing to work with actual value each time since that is in the end what goes on anyhow
[18:11] Diana Coman: quality is also an integer so there might be some small differences due to rounding, too
[18:15] Vivian Sporepress: ok, I can keep that in mind; I've been looking at value more on the inputs and outputs than on the intermediate bundles
[18:16] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6371 - how far have you pushed testing this suicide theory? not that the clientside safety check isn't a good idea but I found it's not so easy to die because below a certain hp/bp I simply can't explore
[18:16] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-02 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/08/03/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Aug-2026/#6347 -- when I train exploring, I run : `bot explore drunkmove` which is dangerous because if you "set it and forget it" for too long you'll kill your char. I set a timer for 30 mins to remind me to stop the bot. the idea is it gets the most reps in during the training session (compared to a normal `bot explore pickall drunkmove stackall rest` i'd run when afk.
[18:17] Diana Coman: well, the bundle is an item just like any other, since you can make them and trade them, only kind of more straightforward in that they literally pack together what ingredients go in
[18:20] Vivian Sporepress: did you still need cftr, Raphael Nethersmell? what's the appeal, the lower quality works better than your own "change" recipes?
[18:23] Vivian Sporepress: besides those in storage I still have 50 q2 and 50 q4
Day changed to 2026-09-09
[02:53] Ulrich Logfetch: PC Raphael Nethersmell has got 1.24m shells worth of Coarse Frangible Thread and assorted loot while tinkering. Congratulations!
[08:31] Diana Coman: now that's a useful pop for sure, congrats Raphael Nethersmell!
[18:16] Monroe Quarterslit: Raphael Nethersmell has achieved first rank among Best at Sortage (PCs). Congratulations!
[22:34] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6427 -- i've not pushed it too close, iirc as low as the 30s on bp/hp.
[22:34] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-07 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6371 - how far have you pushed testing this suicide theory? not that the clientside safety check isn't a good idea but I found it's not so easy to die because below a certain hp/bp I simply can't explore
[22:39] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6430 -- i'll take'em. so far i've noticed with the lower q that i consistently get cft on each run, though also lower q, but i'm not opposed to lower q cft either. right now, my lowerst q cftr is 53 and i'm yielding cft in the q200 range. less than a dozen clicks per craft table are yielding any cft at all, though there are a few with > 1k cft in a click and more with > 100 cft.
[22:39] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-07 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: did you still need cftr, Raphael Nethersmell? what's the appeal, the lower quality works better than your own "change" recipes?
[22:41] Raphael Nethersmell: i traded in over an ECu of cftr recently. 500 @ q185.
[22:43] Raphael Nethersmell: my recent clicks on bct have yielded > q1k. and I jump an entire level of tinkering training in one click.
[22:44] Raphael Nethersmell: i didn't take the greatest notes at the start of this cft run, but have improved that in the past 10 ct spends.
[22:49] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6432 -- this was 2928 cft q236
[22:49] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-09 (Eulora 2) Ulrich Logfetch: PC Raphael Nethersmell has got 1.24m shells worth of Coarse Frangible Thread and assorted loot while tinkering. Congratulations!
[22:54] Raphael Nethersmell: i tried clicking a ppb, though my ppbc q100 turned into 1 ppbc q301. i think i need someone with lower skill to make me bundles of it or lower q ppbc.
Day changed to 2026-09-10
[08:58] Diana Coman: basically lower skilled people *are* needed, heh
[23:13] Felicia Solecrimp: Where are you Raphael Nethersmell ?
[23:23] Felicia Solecrimp: hey percival
[23:30] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, I locked the offer of 210 cdg q1 + 140 cftr q68, lock an empty offer and accept it.
[23:31] Felicia Solecrimp: i did but
[23:31] Felicia Solecrimp: it says that you havent accepted yet
[23:32] Felicia Solecrimp: why it says that im overbulk?
[23:32] Felicia Solecrimp: is it because of the dry grass?
[23:33] Raphael Nethersmell: ok. now take your craft table out of inventory and put it on the ground. right click on the cftr to see how many cdg it calls for. equip the cftr in the 10th slot (same as when you ziggurate) and load the quantity called for in the cftr into the craft table.
[23:33] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, probbaly. how many cdg does the cftr call for ?
[23:35] Raphael Nethersmell: to manually craft you click "use" when you have the ct open & equipped. to use the bot the simplest is `bot craft`
[23:36] Felicia Solecrimp: there is a bot craft ?
[23:36] Felicia Solecrimp: do i have to put the crafting table outside ?
[23:38] Raphael Nethersmell: yes to both.
[23:39] Raphael Nethersmell: put the ct on the ground, examine it and load in the cdg.
[23:40] Raphael Nethersmell: do a few runs manually before you use the bot.
[23:52] Felicia Solecrimp: i run the bot but do i have to merge it with cross tangible thread ?
[23:52] Felicia Solecrimp: im not sure what to do
[23:56] Raphael Nethersmell: forget the bot for now. how many cdg does the cftr call for ?
[23:58] Felicia Solecrimp: the crafting table or the course trangible thread?
[23:58] Felicia Solecrimp: i put on her 50
[23:59] Raphael Nethersmell: probably too much.
Day changed to 2026-09-11
[00:01] Raphael Nethersmell: you have to right click on cftr to see how much based on your skill level.
[00:02] Raphael Nethersmell: like when you have to read the ziggurating enums.
[00:11] Felicia Solecrimp: okay ill see that
[00:15] Raphael Nethersmell: how much does it call for for you ?
[00:16] Felicia Solecrimp: only one
[00:16] Felicia Solecrimp: but is not really working
[00:16] Felicia Solecrimp: i already took the fifty and nothing
[00:18] Raphael Nethersmell: you have to load in the one. and put the cftr in the 10th slot. then click use.
[00:34] Felicia Solecrimp: i tried did not work
[00:36] Raphael Nethersmell: it works though, if it's not working for you, you're not working it right. what did you try exactly ? step by step.
[00:36] Felicia Solecrimp: i took only one dry grass
[00:36] Felicia Solecrimp: put it in sloth10
[00:36] Felicia Solecrimp: and then put use
[00:37] Raphael Nethersmell: you need to put the cft recipe in slot 10 in your inventory. and put the cdg in the table. then click use in the table.
[00:37] Raphael Nethersmell: it doesn't matter what slot in the table you put the cdg. as lon as it's in there.
[00:43] Felicia Solecrimp: as lon ?
[00:46] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, i don't know what that means.
[00:46] Raphael Nethersmell: long*
[00:46] Raphael Nethersmell: lolz.
[05:40] Waldo Lipshine: Percival Platepress died with hitpoints to spare, possessed of own blood to some extent, with mana unused, still spirited, with some strength left to call upon, not yet entirely lethargic, if not present-minded, at least minded of sorts, of too effective ineffectualness, if not outraged, nor inraged then enraged at least, with some degree of comprehension gained, possibly more animated than decorous, only partially here, only partially there, too.
[08:32] Diana Coman: r.i.p Percival Platepress
[08:35] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, there is some sense to actions in e2, e.g. instructions (whether for tinkering or for ziggurating or for anything else) are used in the same manner (equipping them in the same slot since it's the slot for such things, reading the content of that recipe/blueprint/whatever-the-name) etc
Day changed to 2026-09-12
[14:43] Nestor Nethercross: Rainer Tracksnarl where are you?
[14:43] Rainer Tracksnarl: Nestor Nethercross, I am currently at -38.16 96.22 21.94 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
Day changed to 2026-09-13
[17:05] Monroe Quarterslit: Diana Coman has achieved first rank among Best at Sortage (PCs). Congratulations!
Day changed to 2026-09-14
[17:31] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6444 - can do
[17:31] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-09 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: i tried clicking a ppb, though my ppbc q100 turned into 1 ppbc q301. i think i need someone with lower skill to make me bundles of it or lower q ppbc.
[18:19] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6437 - had a little inadvertent mixing accident but ready at my tree to sell 100 q3 + 142 q2 cftr at 110%.
[18:19] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-09 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6430 -- i'll take'em. so far i've noticed with the lower q that i consistently get cft on each run, though also lower q, but i'm not opposed to lower q cft either. right now, my lowerst q cftr is 53 and i'm yielding cft in the q200 range. less than a dozen clicks per craft table are yielding any cft at all, though there are a few with > 1k cft in a click and more with > 100 cft.
[20:18] Vivian Sporepress: Raphael Nethersmell: can sell 7 ppbc q3 + 20 ppbc q5 for 752 shell. that's 39% over qabv but only 10% over cost as there were losses on each step. let's see how that works out for you, then we can optimize if you want more.
[20:21] Vivian Sporepress: the process seems rather sb-hungry; 121 sb q1 gave only bundle q1 and I never got any ppb items out.
[20:24] Vivian Sporepress: huh, misread the little white-on-white numbers again - it's 28 not 20 q5, for 948 shell total.
[21:05] Felicia Solecrimp: I havent move because im overbulk
[21:06] Felicia Solecrimp: i always get overweight but dont know what to do with overbulk
[22:15] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp: what would you do if your hands were too full irl?
[22:39] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, why don't you craft all that cdg already into cftr and maybe cft too ?
[22:42] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, ok, i'll go for it all. my ppbc calls for... 4.1k sb, lolz.
[22:49] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, i'm at your tree. holla.
[23:06] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, while we're here, i'll buy 50k sb too.
[23:07] Raphael Nethersmell: do you want straight cash or something else in barter ?
[23:36] Vivian Sporepress: Raphael Nethersmell: unstocked blueprints are all that come to mind atm
[23:38] Raphael Nethersmell: anything in particular ? i dunno what's unstocked atm. i have a bunch of bctm.
[23:40] Vivian Sporepress: bctm, all the slags and dg are still available
[23:40] Vivian Sporepress: I'm here at -25,-30
[23:41] Raphael Nethersmell: me too, now. so what's not available that you want ?
[23:42] Vivian Sporepress: no specific need, just to buy for safekeeping, so depends on what you have.
[23:43] Raphael Nethersmell: let just do cash for now, how much do I owe you ?
[23:46] Raphael Nethersmell: is it 100% on the cftr ? or how much ?
[23:46] Vivian Sporepress: 18*(100*.03+142*.02)*1.1 = 116 for cftr + 948 for ppbm comes to 1064.
[23:48] Raphael Nethersmell: thanks, let's see how this ppbc goes then.
[23:49] Vivian Sporepress: sounds good
[23:51] Vivian Sporepress: if you still need the 4.1k sb, I don't mind selling that much q1.
[23:53] Raphael Nethersmell: i still habe some in stock from the last time i bought. and once I get my lbn up will try my hand and/or tools in the wild, after that, may need to buy.
Day changed to 2026-09-15
[00:09] Raphael Nethersmell: yahtzee ! got one. note craft 4050 sb q1 + 96 sb q29 + ppbc q3 -> 1 ppb q78 + 1 ppbc q78 + lvl 23 sortage 69 xk -> 75 xk + lvl 47 tinkering 0 xk -> 18 xk
[00:38] Raphael Nethersmell: which works out to : 2349 + 1559 + 13 + 10 (ct) = 3931 shell for the inputs and 3483 + 347 = 3830 shell for the outputs, plus whatever the xk is worth.
[08:43] Diana Coman: the interesting issue of finding out/wishing to stock on... what is *not* available (anymore)
[08:47] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, interesting data, the ppb seems to be basically too expensive for what is currently available to feed it as input. So if one is after quantity, possibly a beginner-click would yield more?
[16:54] Raphael Nethersmell: myeah, you mean the beginer makes me a bundle ? next times for my own trial, i'll see what i get with higher proportion of q1 sb.
[17:17] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, I mean the opposite, aka you make a bundle since you can pack in it way more than the beginner can and they click it with the low q bp as well - at least one gets to see what the difference in skill does, if anything (and if high enough, indeed)
[17:18] Diana Coman: the reasoning being that from the numbers you gave, you got one ppb and that was almost topping the value anyhow at its q78 but a beginner with lower skill might hopefully stand a chance of getting more than 1 ppb, if at lower q
[17:21] Diana Coman: meanwhile in clientside deployments, latest introduces a bit of discrimination + monitoring when requesting objects/the world - possibly of interest to people who struggle with large lag/repeated delays in stuff turning out where it's expected.
[17:23] Diana Coman: specifically, the added changes reduce the requests at actions done without a specific target item (most notably explore currently) and otherwise monitor requested objects to ensure that they are ultimately obtained and that subsequent requests are cumulated so that they don't increase the traffic without much benefit
[17:25] Diana Coman: note that the reduction in requests about the whole world works pretty much reality-style aka your char will notice more quickly what *moves/is new* but will take longer to notice other changes in stuff around/in the world. For now at least the rest (eg own char, target item etc) remain the same
[17:27] Diana Coman: if you try it out, I'd be curious to know what seems changed to you wrt play experience, if anything
[17:28] Diana Coman: (while the direct traffic impact can be measured at any time, it's the player experience that I'm really more interested in, on this)
[17:33] Diana Coman: if anyone is interested in clientside tweaks and upgrades, this is likely the most promising part currently - improving the client's discrimination capability so that it serves the player faster with what and when they require, while reducing otherwise the overall number of requests to the server. While the server has no problem to answer as many requests as a client wants to make, it's really in the client's own interest to make as few as they can work well with - for one thing it means less sync/traffic issues and for another, as traffic *will* be charged one way or another, it's less costly too.
[17:35] Diana Coman: in other words, how to make the client ask smartly and make most of the answers it gets, heh
Day changed to 2026-09-16
[20:14] Raphael Nethersmell: i've updated my client. initially i experienced an issue w/ the gui freezing upon attempting to open the chat window. the client continued to operate under the hood, but couldn't do anythign with the gui and the when switching focus to another window manager pane and back to e2, i'd get a blank screen. consulted with Diana Coman in sidebar and upon her suggestion renamed the chatlogs files. upon restart the chat works now, though the freshly generated log files only cover the past couple of weeks, which is in line w/ prior statements on log redownload expectation.
[20:22] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, I understand your point about the ppb bundling. Vivian Sporepress, I've made a few bundles over at x=-388 z=150 if you want to do some testing.
[21:12] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, glad it's sorted and thanks for the report on it.
Day changed to 2026-09-18
[09:48] Ulrich Logfetch: PC Diana Coman has got 1.18m shells worth of Coarse Frangible Thread and assorted loot while tinkering. Congratulations!
[15:04] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, nice pop !
[16:35] Diana Coman: yeee! That must be the 18k cft q47 - so that I can finally say there is something to keep the small zig going, seeing how my smalls can take 3-400 cft each
Day changed to 2026-09-19
[15:13] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6530 -- in my experience, it's less responsive compared to the prior version. it's the first time i've felt like rolling back an update. for example, prior versions allowed me to drag pretty efficiently with 4 comands per move, with the primary constraint being the space I could move and still pick up the bag. in this version, the commands to move the bag to ground and from ground to inventory take several attempts, with no clear pattern on why they're failing.
[15:13] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-15 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: if you try it out, I'd be curious to know what seems changed to you wrt play experience, if anything
[15:15] Raphael Nethersmell: another example is taking 5-10 mins to get into my storage. with obstacles including it not being available to me for a while after clicking it to not even being visible at all. this included a client restart or two failing to resolve it. it eventually was resolved, but it's not clear to me how.
[15:16] Raphael Nethersmell: stackall also appears to be less efficient. i've seen a few attempts requiring over a dozen reps for an item, whereas prior version would rarely need more than 1 or at most 2.
[15:17] Raphael Nethersmell: maybe part of the issue is my hardware ? i'm running on an x200. though the idea was this latest version was to improve efficiency.
[15:20] Raphael Nethersmell: on the dragging, it appears the item get stuck in limbo, e.g. it says i'm overbulk, but it doesn't visibly apear in my inventory, negating even my ability to click & drag as an alternative to cli.
[15:34] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6542 -- for clarity, i'm not sure if I can reproduce this as a a subsequent attempt was efficient, but that's also part of the problem, as the behaviour, good or bad, isn't very consistent.
[15:34] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-19 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: another example is taking 5-10 mins to get into my storage. with obstacles including it not being available to me for a while after clicking it to not even being visible at all. this included a client restart or two failing to resolve it. it eventually was resolved, but it's not clear to me how.
[16:56] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, I guess this goes to show the trouble with efficiency - it's good as long as everything aligns perfectly fine but entirely horrible as soon as anything is not quite aligned. Fwiw it sounds like the usual trouble of something not making it and thus requiring another request, with the larger delays noted simply because of the larger intervals between repeated requests. And given that I haven't quite noticed such extreme troubles here while I've been running it for a couple of weeks at least, I guess it's even more dependent on the connection/hops/similar, most likely.
[16:56] Diana Coman: at any rate, it sounds quite annoying so I'll roll it back for now and will let you know
[17:04] Diana Coman: ftr for this sort of situation, what helps is simply a manual request on the node(s) in question (i.e. via reqobj or even reqtree)
[17:23] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, redeployed client, rolling back for now the part which is likely causing most of the trouble (hence, switching it back to drilling again through the full subtree on each receipt) while attempting to still keep at least the monitoring + re-request. Let me know if you give it a try and sorry for the trouble.
[17:25] Diana Coman: it should notice things promptly enough again now, with the likely downside that crowded areas/inventories will likely result in a lot of requests again and thus potential clientside stammering and/or re-syncs
Day changed to 2026-09-21
[13:54] Diana Coman: on reflection, it occurs that a sort of more gradual perception of things in the world still makes sense and is of benefit to players, only it belongs in fact serverside directly.
[13:59] Diana Coman: so there is now a change so that there will be less info available on objects that are visible in the distance but not close enough to interact with. This has been already deployed and running fine for the past 12 hours or so, with no errors or issues seen either serverside or on my client, so I'll let it in. Fwiw for my char currently there has been a reduction of more than 10% of objects with this so I'd say it's really worth it, too. And it should reduce the load in crowded areas (at least as they are not very densely packed, too), without any real loss to play experience otherwise since the still available info for far away objects is enough for the client to make them graphically visible.
[13:59] Diana Coman: anyways, let me know how it works for you, if you notice any difference either way and/or what you think of it
[18:21] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: I'll give the update a try. What's some of the info removed for distant objects?
[18:26] Vivian Sporepress: for comms efficiency I'd conjecture that the key is in guessing the player's current focus and setting request priority and/or frequency around that. e.g. delve on characters before inanimate objects, and if I'm exchanging with someone amid a big cluster of claims, refresh mostly the exchange tree, then self and counterparty, and only then the surroundings
[18:27] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, yeah, clientside it would really need to prioritise subtrees of objects of interest but accurately (and dynamically) identifying those is an interesting problem
[18:28] Vivian Sporepress: of course irl, peripheral vision is a thing and a fast one; that might mean refreshing just positions or something, that "motion detection"
[18:28] Diana Coman: especially if one wants to have an approach that is still robust enough, as well
[18:29] Diana Coman: myeah, that was my initial idea there and most likely it would yield something better with a few more iterations
[18:29] Diana Coman: only well, for now at least there's more gain obtained experience wise and specifically with the improvement serverside
[18:30] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, for objects visible in the distance, but not close enough to interact with, the server now provides only the position and the mesh/model
[18:31] Diana Coman: hence the client can show them as they are meant to look and where they are meant to be + can notice movement at the very least
[18:33] Vivian Sporepress: that actually makes it more closely follow the restriction in the GUI where you can't click to examine distant things even if you can see them. sounds like it's also the end of that long-distance resource knowledge mapping from hearing others' distant claims
[18:36] Diana Coman: well, you can still see them, only with way less detail - but if interested, can certainly get closer for a full inspection!
[18:36] Diana Coman: but yeah, less of a perfect scanner-vision
[18:38] Vivian Sporepress: in other interesting problems, it's looking like keeping rsync out of Gales has still been [https://rsync.samba.org/security.html#s3_5_0][a good call] and I'm starting to see a big part of its smell as coming fundamentally from exactly that server-push approach which was thought necessary for efficiency
[18:42] Vivian Sporepress: while sftp, both the protocol spec and openssh implementation, looks like a strong starting point for a secure and efficient pull-based mirroring/backup tool; it's just the included client that's stuck with no more goals in life than to emulate the interactive linemode ftp client
[19:54] Vivian Sporepress: Irene Dancecove: your character is looking unwell
[19:57] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: new client's working ok so far, some things are slow to respond but hard to say it's anything different.
[20:26] Vivian Sporepress: now I don't see characters' name labels until I get close, even if the client still remembers who they are when I inspect.
[20:46] Vivian Sporepress: the client seems to be having more trouble cleaning out deleted objects. for instance even if I do a full-world reqtree, expired markers are staying in view and showing "Unknown name", until I do a reqobj on each specific one.
[21:21] Vivian Sporepress: so I'm here in a field of 30 mostly-expired markers playing roulette to guess which might still be buildable.
[21:42] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6570 -- same with Felicia Solecrimp. yet to be seen if she'll figure out crafting and lighten her load before her vitals are drained.
[21:42] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-21 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: Irene Dancecove: your character is looking unwell
[22:10] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, I see how that might happen, will fix it tomorrow, thanks. At the same time, you don't need any roulette really, since they'll get their names (and more) as you get closer. And the keys in inv help too, since they will become lbn when the claims expire.
[22:11] Diana Coman: the reqtree trouble will get fixed though
[22:15] Diana Coman: on the name labels, it's more a matter of which info the client shows - the gui by default shows current view as it has it from the server at that moment i.e. no memory, hence the Nameless (though for names specifically the client has its own memory indeed esp since it needs it for chat to work fine at any distance)
[22:15] Diana Coman: but yeah, at a distance one can't quite tell who exactly they see !
[22:16] Diana Coman: on the expired claims, I should add that e1 did not even mark expired claims *at all* - only it gladly ate your bundle if/when you tried to build it again
[22:17] Diana Coman: so dunno, possibly e2 got too accommodating :D
[22:23] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, the rsync comment sounds reasonable to me and yes, problems of principle (as is the push approach) are fundamental for a reason
Day changed to 2026-09-22
[09:17] Diana Coman: freshly deployed client with fixed reqtree so that it does exactly what is expected and requests the full subtree from the given t parameter (including t itself)
[09:21] Diana Coman: should add that currently the client follows up on any node received with a request for its children so the reqtree is more of a burst request to get any existing changes even faster (with the potential downside that the burst may be too heavy and thus ending up with a re-sync which overall is...slower, so yeah, better used sparringly)
[09:22] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, the above clientside update should fix the issue you noticed yesterday & sorry about it.
[23:19] Vivian Sporepress: I tend to use reqtree specifically targetted such as on a claim marker, or at top-level only sparingly when I really want that "rsync --delete" cleanup of expired clutter.
[23:27] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6577 - what happened was that when I got close, the claims would neither get a name nor disappear, so I couldn't distinguish slow comms from deleted claim until I tried to act on it. because still-valid claims also show as nameless for some interval on approach now since the name is only visible now close-up and the client doesn't recall it.
[23:27] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-21 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, I see how that might happen, will fix it tomorrow, thanks. At the same time, you don't need any roulette really, since they'll get their names (and more) as you get closer. And the keys in inv help too, since they will become lbn when the claims expire.
[23:39] Vivian Sporepress: since the prior update I've also been getting freezes on first load of the chat window, but it loads eventually. perhaps not so much a failure to join up with the saved log entirely as a slow procedure for doing it?
[23:44] Vivian Sporepress: the claim keys can help to find things too, but there's a lot of switching between visual and text modalities: click in inventory to get coordinates; relocate, wait & forcepos in console; click to examine. doing it all from console takes a few extra "ls" hops to find & dereference the refid
Day changed to 2026-09-23
[00:02] Vivian Sporepress: the tree cleanup seems working again now, thanks.
[05:44] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6581 -- looks like i learned the hard way that e2 eats bundles in q4 craft tables. used markers can be used to make crafting bundles, but apparently used craft tables cannot.. kinda sucks to have learned when attempting to build my highest q ppbb so far, with 43914 shell of inputs. i suppose that might vault me to the top of the leaderboard of biggest losses ? lulz.
[05:44] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-21 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: on the expired claims, I should add that e1 did not even mark expired claims *at all* - only it gladly ate your bundle if/when you tried to build it again
[08:32] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, because vanished claims don't directly appear in the tree at a normal traversal so the client will take a little longer to figure out that they are gone (as they end up marked as ghosts and so it requests them specifically). Under normal comms conditions, it should be precisely that still-existing claims gain a name (and the rest of details) on approach, while ghost ones remain unnamed even closer up and eventually vanish. I guess there would still be a bit of wait for this difference to show - not sure though, was it really not happening at all or just not fast enough for the play?
[08:36] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, awww, if it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure those older vanished remarkable claims of mine were worth at least that if not more! On the more practical side though, it's *not* the used aspect of a claim that allows bundle making - it's really the mismatch aka the fact that the 2nd step of the transformation process can't proceed. Meaning: you can make a tiny grass bundle in a 100q tiny flotsam claim (or anything other than tiny grass). And in general, using worn out/defective stuff is more likely to backfire one way or another so probably something to test with caution, if testing is even wanted...
[08:37] Diana Coman: so yeah, sort of the lenience of claims *not* eating bundles led to wrong conclusions and ultimately larger loss, huh
[17:01] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, touche. i realize now i was thinking in terms of action that resulted in a loss more than loss of potential gain because couldn't take the action because hadn't yet found the materials which the action required. positive v negative space points of view, i suppose.
[17:03] Raphael Nethersmell: makes sense that the worn out defective capital backfires, like afk how the odds are rising that more petrol refineries blow up in coming months as less maintanence is being done on them because the crack spread blow out is inducing the refinery owners to... overly opportunistic.
[17:10] Raphael Nethersmell: odds rising a lulzy because one the one hand it means increased probability, but on the other hand rising betting odds means higher payout which implies less probable outcome.
[17:10] Raphael Nethersmell: is* lulzy
Day changed to 2026-09-24
[08:31] Diana Coman: eh, odds like everything else need some very specific context or they can be ...at odds! Lolz. Specifically, there is at all times at the very least the actual probability of something happening (which is generally unknown and unreachable directly, unless one really controls the underlying generating process), the estimated probability (which is what goes more commonly by "probability"), the perceived probability etc
[08:36] Diana Coman: as for petrol specifically, it does seem to be quite set for more troubles for at least a good while and sure, lack of maintenance in some parts works just as well for this
Day changed to 2026-09-25
[02:54] Felicia Solecrimp: Ulrich Logfetch where are you?
[02:54] Ulrich Logfetch: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -7.42 99.77 16.90 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[02:57] Vivian Sporepress: my zigging results on rare item patches continue to be a grind these days; few smalls, few items per tiny and low quality. enum reading bounds float around 19-31 lbn. however, I did finally start getting some bonus skill items - so far just AMR and SMS q1. the luckiest tiny gave 108 LH q1.
[03:51] Wolfgang Middlesit: Vivian Sporepress, I don't have enough change to match that currently, sorry.
[04:14] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/08/03/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Aug-2026/#6316 - did I miss an announcement here? because I see Rainer Tracksnarl indeed has a bunch more bundles stocked, even compared to when I traded with him just a few days prior.
[04:14] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-08-19 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, took advantage of Rainer Tracksnarl's fresh supplies after his cleanup. Otherwise though the SM bundle is actually doable currently at least in principle as it takes tlc, lh, dm - but for my char at least it would take these in huge quantities so not quite sure how long it would take me to get hundreds of molluscs, lolz
[21:57] Raphael Nethersmell: testing unodostres
[21:57] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on the pacamenia and the skills.
Day changed to 2026-09-02
[03:56] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, I suspect the bundles emerged when Diana Coman had the sm ord to build.
[06:56] Raphael Nethersmell: i clicked a cdg ord for 640k q1. it's a couple maps away, so going to tinker away at it because the most I can carry is 484 at a time, which would require like 1.3k round trips. I've chewed through the first 40k of it, and popped out 10.4k cft q32 in a click as well as a couple of mini pops.
[16:20] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on finding the pacademia nut! That lh tiny sounds like a mini pop by itself. Is it a surprise otherwise though that tinies of rares yield few and low q?
[16:21] Diana Coman: Rainer Tracksnarl didn't advertise his latest cleanup and shipment indeed. It was though a few weeks back.
[16:22] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, congrats on the cdg ord pop, that's quite the stack of grass to tinker through. As a single-pile sort of thing it might be still the same to carry back the cdg or the resulting cft, I suppose it depends on how much cdg your char packs per resulting cft.
[16:22] Diana Coman: 10.4k cft q32 should keep one in ziggurating for a while too, nice
[16:24] Diana Coman: ftr and the log: a quick reset of the chat clientside can easily be done anytime by simply closing the client, deleting the local chat log in data/chat/Eulora\ 2.txt and then restarting the client
[16:39] Diana Coman: possibly renaming that chat log file rather than deleting it, at least if one wants to still have the full log of the corresponding chat room
[17:37] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/08/03/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Aug-2026/#6347 -- when I train exploring, I run : `bot explore drunkmove` which is dangerous because if you "set it and forget it" for too long you'll kill your char. I set a timer for 30 mins to remind me to stop the bot. the idea is it gets the most reps in during the training session (compared to a normal `bot explore pickall drunkmove stackall rest` i'd run when afk.
[17:37] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-08-24 (Eulora 2) Felicia Solecrimp: how can i train and make it more effective ?
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: for training zigging and crafting, I find the bot to be a bit slow. for zigurating, I'd preload the claims before your start the session, during the session you just need to click use & take all on the claim. also, building smalls & ords during training results in xk leaps.
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: for training crafting, i find using the console to load the table and use it while clicking takeall when the click is through to be most efficient. for crafting, training while making bct has been the most time efficient, though the limiting factor there is having the cft with which to make the bct.
[18:37] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6367 -- cft is 16% the weight of cdg and 17% the bulk. and at my current level it's demanding 90-132 cdg per click. at these rates it'll cost ~40 ct to craft it all, lolz. my plan for now is to make some delivery & training runs as my xp fills up.
[18:37] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-02 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, congrats on the cdg ord pop, that's quite the stack of grass to tinker through. As a single-pile sort of thing it might be still the same to carry back the cdg or the resulting cft, I suppose it depends on how much cdg your char packs per resulting cft.
Day changed to 2026-09-03
[01:11] Monroe Quarterslit: Raphael Nethersmell has achieved first rank among Best at Tinkering (PCs). Congratulations!
[08:44] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, tinkering work clearly showing, congratulations on the new rank!
[08:48] Diana Coman: quite the detailed observations on bot use, it's useful to see
[08:50] Diana Coman: ziggurating is more complex hence more steps hence the bot ends up slower overall for sure
[14:56] Wolfgang Middlesit: Nestor Nethercross, that's worth about 2.2k shells more than what you're offering.
[14:57] Wolfgang Middlesit: Nestor Nethercross, that's worth about 2.0k shells more than what you're offering.
[16:37] Raphael Nethersmell: Rainer Tracksnarl where are you?
[16:37] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, I am currently at -30.45 96.95 25.35 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
Day changed to 2026-09-04
[18:45] Felicia Solecrimp: Rainer Tracksnarl where are you?
[18:45] Rainer Tracksnarl: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -30.45 96.95 25.35 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[18:46] Felicia Solecrimp: Wolfgang Middlesit where are you?
[18:46] Wolfgang Middlesit: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -7.19 99.62 -29.06 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[18:49] Wolfgang Middlesit: Felicia Solecrimp, that's worth about 72 shells more than what you're offering.
Day changed to 2026-09-05
[16:17] Felicia Solecrimp: so I made an exchange it somehow finish but the coins got stuck there i dont know what i did wrong
[20:17] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, what happened exactly? what does it mean "the coins got stuck there"?
[20:21] Diana Coman: most likely it was only clientside getting laggy/out of sync and thus not showing in inventory. Fwiw there are no errors serverside.
Day changed to 2026-09-06
[06:45] Percival Platepress: Relocate x=0 z=-30
[06:50] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, i'm trying to give Percival Platepress a life line, we're wondering if he's in the underworld though because we're not seeing eachother when we go to the same location.
[09:43] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, he's not in the underworld, merely in a different sector. Deaths are still announced by the npc and otherwise he would be able to tell by the looks at least, not to mention the name shown in the Console's title. From what I can see, Percival Platepress seems to be currently in the Secluded Course of Verve.
[15:54] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, thanks !
[21:30] Ulrich Logfetch: PC Diana Coman has got 2.4m shells worth of Solid Branch and assorted loot while gathering. Congratulations!
Day changed to 2026-09-07
[17:37] Diana Coman: another remarkable that I can't build, sheesh
[17:40] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6365 - thanks. in offline convos with Raphael Nethersmell there was the idea that working the rare item patches would be the most time effective way to get cash or train up, thus my noting that it's not necessarily so. It might still be after all, as for instance I can't seem to build tiny cdg without a loss now, if I'm bundling the lbn myself
[17:40] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-02 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on finding the pacademia nut! That lh tiny sounds like a mini pop by itself. Is it a surprise otherwise though that tinies of rares yield few and low q?
[17:42] Diana Coman: perhaps it takes a different combination of skills
[17:43] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp's q9 bundles may be helpful in that regard, if she can get around to making them in quantity: most of my bundled cdg builds came out completely empty, but the few that worked averaged out to more than double the cost of the bundles.
[17:43] Diana Coman: what was the reasoning as to why more time effective on rares?
[17:43] Diana Coman: the bot has a command to bundle...
[17:43] Diana Coman: are you trying to build with ~no value?
[17:45] Vivian Sporepress: comparing builds with my own bundles in the 200-300 quality range with those purchased at q9, so indeed low value
[17:46] Vivian Sporepress: I believe we did notice that the PSS patch tended to give decent returns per click
[17:47] Diana Coman: dunno if it's obvious that 100q being the standard quality, anything with q below 100 is basically less than normally required, anything above is more and the player can in principle adjust whichever way they want but at the end of the day if one puts in ~nothing, it's more a marvel when one still obtains something than otherwise
[17:49] Diana Coman: at any rate, each player to their own, certainly
[17:51] Vivian Sporepress: hm. what makes it a standard quality? I thought it was a conventional base quality for measuring bv but hadn't noticed further significance...
[17:51] Diana Coman: fwiw in e1 it was in fact foxybot that got everyone to actually build their tinies because pre-bot people just threw them away as not worth the trouble (and only when noting with my data and other concrete incidents that in fact tinies may not add to much individually but overall can make quite the difference)
[17:52] Diana Coman: this being said, atm it seems that there is quite little other than tinies, lolz
[17:52] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, "standard" exactly as in "base quality" aka measuring bv aka significant exactly in this sense
[17:54] Diana Coman: specifically all the bv *fit* at that point, hence one can rely on it to do some calculations, no?
[17:54] Diana Coman: possibly the tinkering is clearer in this sense if you actually look at the ingredients, bundle and output values
[18:02] Vivian Sporepress: I've been meaning to do some plots of just the input vs. bundle values since that seems one of the more stable relations - in ziggurating sometimes the bundle value is just the lbn quantity * quality, but it comes out less at least on smaller numbers
[18:05] Vivian Sporepress: on tinkering so far I tend to get low bundle quality because the inputs aren't high quality and my recipe readings don't call for many
[18:06] Vivian Sporepress: I've also plateaued at q3 enums from gathering
[18:08] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, uhm, that sounds confused indeed if you are going from quantity*quality to ...value
[18:08] Diana Coman: lbn is bv 11 iirc, so probably that's why it works since at q10 it would be 1 so yeah, unit value, lolz
[18:09] Diana Coman: my enums are atm q4, had some q5, it keeps going slightly up and down like that
[18:09] Vivian Sporepress: sorry, I mean the bundle quality. which is proportional to qabv.
[18:10] Diana Coman: yes, but to the qabv of the bundle
[18:11] Diana Coman: it's really less confusing to work with actual value each time since that is in the end what goes on anyhow
[18:11] Diana Coman: quality is also an integer so there might be some small differences due to rounding, too
[18:15] Vivian Sporepress: ok, I can keep that in mind; I've been looking at value more on the inputs and outputs than on the intermediate bundles
[18:16] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6371 - how far have you pushed testing this suicide theory? not that the clientside safety check isn't a good idea but I found it's not so easy to die because below a certain hp/bp I simply can't explore
[18:16] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-02 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/08/03/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Aug-2026/#6347 -- when I train exploring, I run : `bot explore drunkmove` which is dangerous because if you "set it and forget it" for too long you'll kill your char. I set a timer for 30 mins to remind me to stop the bot. the idea is it gets the most reps in during the training session (compared to a normal `bot explore pickall drunkmove stackall rest` i'd run when afk.
[18:17] Diana Coman: well, the bundle is an item just like any other, since you can make them and trade them, only kind of more straightforward in that they literally pack together what ingredients go in
[18:20] Vivian Sporepress: did you still need cftr, Raphael Nethersmell? what's the appeal, the lower quality works better than your own "change" recipes?
[18:23] Vivian Sporepress: besides those in storage I still have 50 q2 and 50 q4
Day changed to 2026-09-09
[02:53] Ulrich Logfetch: PC Raphael Nethersmell has got 1.24m shells worth of Coarse Frangible Thread and assorted loot while tinkering. Congratulations!
[08:31] Diana Coman: now that's a useful pop for sure, congrats Raphael Nethersmell!
[18:16] Monroe Quarterslit: Raphael Nethersmell has achieved first rank among Best at Sortage (PCs). Congratulations!
[22:34] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6427 -- i've not pushed it too close, iirc as low as the 30s on bp/hp.
[22:34] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-07 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6371 - how far have you pushed testing this suicide theory? not that the clientside safety check isn't a good idea but I found it's not so easy to die because below a certain hp/bp I simply can't explore
[22:39] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6430 -- i'll take'em. so far i've noticed with the lower q that i consistently get cft on each run, though also lower q, but i'm not opposed to lower q cft either. right now, my lowerst q cftr is 53 and i'm yielding cft in the q200 range. less than a dozen clicks per craft table are yielding any cft at all, though there are a few with > 1k cft in a click and more with > 100 cft.
[22:39] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-07 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: did you still need cftr, Raphael Nethersmell? what's the appeal, the lower quality works better than your own "change" recipes?
[22:41] Raphael Nethersmell: i traded in over an ECu of cftr recently. 500 @ q185.
[22:43] Raphael Nethersmell: my recent clicks on bct have yielded > q1k. and I jump an entire level of tinkering training in one click.
[22:44] Raphael Nethersmell: i didn't take the greatest notes at the start of this cft run, but have improved that in the past 10 ct spends.
[22:49] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6432 -- this was 2928 cft q236
[22:49] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-09 (Eulora 2) Ulrich Logfetch: PC Raphael Nethersmell has got 1.24m shells worth of Coarse Frangible Thread and assorted loot while tinkering. Congratulations!
[22:54] Raphael Nethersmell: i tried clicking a ppb, though my ppbc q100 turned into 1 ppbc q301. i think i need someone with lower skill to make me bundles of it or lower q ppbc.
Day changed to 2026-09-10
[08:58] Diana Coman: basically lower skilled people *are* needed, heh
[23:13] Felicia Solecrimp: Where are you Raphael Nethersmell ?
[23:23] Felicia Solecrimp: hey percival
[23:30] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, I locked the offer of 210 cdg q1 + 140 cftr q68, lock an empty offer and accept it.
[23:31] Felicia Solecrimp: i did but
[23:31] Felicia Solecrimp: it says that you havent accepted yet
[23:32] Felicia Solecrimp: why it says that im overbulk?
[23:32] Felicia Solecrimp: is it because of the dry grass?
[23:33] Raphael Nethersmell: ok. now take your craft table out of inventory and put it on the ground. right click on the cftr to see how many cdg it calls for. equip the cftr in the 10th slot (same as when you ziggurate) and load the quantity called for in the cftr into the craft table.
[23:33] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, probbaly. how many cdg does the cftr call for ?
[23:35] Raphael Nethersmell: to manually craft you click "use" when you have the ct open & equipped. to use the bot the simplest is `bot craft`
[23:36] Felicia Solecrimp: there is a bot craft ?
[23:36] Felicia Solecrimp: do i have to put the crafting table outside ?
[23:38] Raphael Nethersmell: yes to both.
[23:39] Raphael Nethersmell: put the ct on the ground, examine it and load in the cdg.
[23:40] Raphael Nethersmell: do a few runs manually before you use the bot.
[23:52] Felicia Solecrimp: i run the bot but do i have to merge it with cross tangible thread ?
[23:52] Felicia Solecrimp: im not sure what to do
[23:56] Raphael Nethersmell: forget the bot for now. how many cdg does the cftr call for ?
[23:58] Felicia Solecrimp: the crafting table or the course trangible thread?
[23:58] Felicia Solecrimp: i put on her 50
[23:59] Raphael Nethersmell: probably too much.
Day changed to 2026-09-11
[00:01] Raphael Nethersmell: you have to right click on cftr to see how much based on your skill level.
[00:02] Raphael Nethersmell: like when you have to read the ziggurating enums.
[00:11] Felicia Solecrimp: okay ill see that
[00:15] Raphael Nethersmell: how much does it call for for you ?
[00:16] Felicia Solecrimp: only one
[00:16] Felicia Solecrimp: but is not really working
[00:16] Felicia Solecrimp: i already took the fifty and nothing
[00:18] Raphael Nethersmell: you have to load in the one. and put the cftr in the 10th slot. then click use.
[00:34] Felicia Solecrimp: i tried did not work
[00:36] Raphael Nethersmell: it works though, if it's not working for you, you're not working it right. what did you try exactly ? step by step.
[00:36] Felicia Solecrimp: i took only one dry grass
[00:36] Felicia Solecrimp: put it in sloth10
[00:36] Felicia Solecrimp: and then put use
[00:37] Raphael Nethersmell: you need to put the cft recipe in slot 10 in your inventory. and put the cdg in the table. then click use in the table.
[00:37] Raphael Nethersmell: it doesn't matter what slot in the table you put the cdg. as lon as it's in there.
[00:43] Felicia Solecrimp: as lon ?
[00:46] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, i don't know what that means.
[00:46] Raphael Nethersmell: long*
[00:46] Raphael Nethersmell: lolz.
[05:40] Waldo Lipshine: Percival Platepress died with hitpoints to spare, possessed of own blood to some extent, with mana unused, still spirited, with some strength left to call upon, not yet entirely lethargic, if not present-minded, at least minded of sorts, of too effective ineffectualness, if not outraged, nor inraged then enraged at least, with some degree of comprehension gained, possibly more animated than decorous, only partially here, only partially there, too.
[08:32] Diana Coman: r.i.p Percival Platepress
[08:35] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, there is some sense to actions in e2, e.g. instructions (whether for tinkering or for ziggurating or for anything else) are used in the same manner (equipping them in the same slot since it's the slot for such things, reading the content of that recipe/blueprint/whatever-the-name) etc
Day changed to 2026-09-12
[14:43] Nestor Nethercross: Rainer Tracksnarl where are you?
[14:43] Rainer Tracksnarl: Nestor Nethercross, I am currently at -38.16 96.22 21.94 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
Day changed to 2026-09-13
[17:05] Monroe Quarterslit: Diana Coman has achieved first rank among Best at Sortage (PCs). Congratulations!
Day changed to 2026-09-14
[17:31] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6444 - can do
[17:31] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-09 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: i tried clicking a ppb, though my ppbc q100 turned into 1 ppbc q301. i think i need someone with lower skill to make me bundles of it or lower q ppbc.
[18:19] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6437 - had a little inadvertent mixing accident but ready at my tree to sell 100 q3 + 142 q2 cftr at 110%.
[18:19] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-09 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6430 -- i'll take'em. so far i've noticed with the lower q that i consistently get cft on each run, though also lower q, but i'm not opposed to lower q cft either. right now, my lowerst q cftr is 53 and i'm yielding cft in the q200 range. less than a dozen clicks per craft table are yielding any cft at all, though there are a few with > 1k cft in a click and more with > 100 cft.
[20:18] Vivian Sporepress: Raphael Nethersmell: can sell 7 ppbc q3 + 20 ppbc q5 for 752 shell. that's 39% over qabv but only 10% over cost as there were losses on each step. let's see how that works out for you, then we can optimize if you want more.
[20:21] Vivian Sporepress: the process seems rather sb-hungry; 121 sb q1 gave only bundle q1 and I never got any ppb items out.
[20:24] Vivian Sporepress: huh, misread the little white-on-white numbers again - it's 28 not 20 q5, for 948 shell total.
[21:05] Felicia Solecrimp: I havent move because im overbulk
[21:06] Felicia Solecrimp: i always get overweight but dont know what to do with overbulk
[22:15] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp: what would you do if your hands were too full irl?
[22:39] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, why don't you craft all that cdg already into cftr and maybe cft too ?
[22:42] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, ok, i'll go for it all. my ppbc calls for... 4.1k sb, lolz.
[22:49] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, i'm at your tree. holla.
[23:06] Raphael Nethersmell: Vivian Sporepress, while we're here, i'll buy 50k sb too.
[23:07] Raphael Nethersmell: do you want straight cash or something else in barter ?
[23:36] Vivian Sporepress: Raphael Nethersmell: unstocked blueprints are all that come to mind atm
[23:38] Raphael Nethersmell: anything in particular ? i dunno what's unstocked atm. i have a bunch of bctm.
[23:40] Vivian Sporepress: bctm, all the slags and dg are still available
[23:40] Vivian Sporepress: I'm here at -25,-30
[23:41] Raphael Nethersmell: me too, now. so what's not available that you want ?
[23:42] Vivian Sporepress: no specific need, just to buy for safekeeping, so depends on what you have.
[23:43] Raphael Nethersmell: let just do cash for now, how much do I owe you ?
[23:46] Raphael Nethersmell: is it 100% on the cftr ? or how much ?
[23:46] Vivian Sporepress: 18*(100*.03+142*.02)*1.1 = 116 for cftr + 948 for ppbm comes to 1064.
[23:48] Raphael Nethersmell: thanks, let's see how this ppbc goes then.
[23:49] Vivian Sporepress: sounds good
[23:51] Vivian Sporepress: if you still need the 4.1k sb, I don't mind selling that much q1.
[23:53] Raphael Nethersmell: i still habe some in stock from the last time i bought. and once I get my lbn up will try my hand and/or tools in the wild, after that, may need to buy.
Day changed to 2026-09-15
[00:09] Raphael Nethersmell: yahtzee ! got one. note craft 4050 sb q1 + 96 sb q29 + ppbc q3 -> 1 ppb q78 + 1 ppbc q78 + lvl 23 sortage 69 xk -> 75 xk + lvl 47 tinkering 0 xk -> 18 xk
[00:38] Raphael Nethersmell: which works out to : 2349 + 1559 + 13 + 10 (ct) = 3931 shell for the inputs and 3483 + 347 = 3830 shell for the outputs, plus whatever the xk is worth.
[08:43] Diana Coman: the interesting issue of finding out/wishing to stock on... what is *not* available (anymore)
[08:47] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, interesting data, the ppb seems to be basically too expensive for what is currently available to feed it as input. So if one is after quantity, possibly a beginner-click would yield more?
[16:54] Raphael Nethersmell: myeah, you mean the beginer makes me a bundle ? next times for my own trial, i'll see what i get with higher proportion of q1 sb.
[17:17] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, I mean the opposite, aka you make a bundle since you can pack in it way more than the beginner can and they click it with the low q bp as well - at least one gets to see what the difference in skill does, if anything (and if high enough, indeed)
[17:18] Diana Coman: the reasoning being that from the numbers you gave, you got one ppb and that was almost topping the value anyhow at its q78 but a beginner with lower skill might hopefully stand a chance of getting more than 1 ppb, if at lower q
[17:21] Diana Coman: meanwhile in clientside deployments, latest introduces a bit of discrimination + monitoring when requesting objects/the world - possibly of interest to people who struggle with large lag/repeated delays in stuff turning out where it's expected.
[17:23] Diana Coman: specifically, the added changes reduce the requests at actions done without a specific target item (most notably explore currently) and otherwise monitor requested objects to ensure that they are ultimately obtained and that subsequent requests are cumulated so that they don't increase the traffic without much benefit
[17:25] Diana Coman: note that the reduction in requests about the whole world works pretty much reality-style aka your char will notice more quickly what *moves/is new* but will take longer to notice other changes in stuff around/in the world. For now at least the rest (eg own char, target item etc) remain the same
[17:27] Diana Coman: if you try it out, I'd be curious to know what seems changed to you wrt play experience, if anything
[17:28] Diana Coman: (while the direct traffic impact can be measured at any time, it's the player experience that I'm really more interested in, on this)
[17:33] Diana Coman: if anyone is interested in clientside tweaks and upgrades, this is likely the most promising part currently - improving the client's discrimination capability so that it serves the player faster with what and when they require, while reducing otherwise the overall number of requests to the server. While the server has no problem to answer as many requests as a client wants to make, it's really in the client's own interest to make as few as they can work well with - for one thing it means less sync/traffic issues and for another, as traffic *will* be charged one way or another, it's less costly too.
[17:35] Diana Coman: in other words, how to make the client ask smartly and make most of the answers it gets, heh
Day changed to 2026-09-16
[20:14] Raphael Nethersmell: i've updated my client. initially i experienced an issue w/ the gui freezing upon attempting to open the chat window. the client continued to operate under the hood, but couldn't do anythign with the gui and the when switching focus to another window manager pane and back to e2, i'd get a blank screen. consulted with Diana Coman in sidebar and upon her suggestion renamed the chatlogs files. upon restart the chat works now, though the freshly generated log files only cover the past couple of weeks, which is in line w/ prior statements on log redownload expectation.
[20:22] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, I understand your point about the ppb bundling. Vivian Sporepress, I've made a few bundles over at x=-388 z=150 if you want to do some testing.
[21:12] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, glad it's sorted and thanks for the report on it.
Day changed to 2026-09-18
[09:48] Ulrich Logfetch: PC Diana Coman has got 1.18m shells worth of Coarse Frangible Thread and assorted loot while tinkering. Congratulations!
[15:04] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, nice pop !
[16:35] Diana Coman: yeee! That must be the 18k cft q47 - so that I can finally say there is something to keep the small zig going, seeing how my smalls can take 3-400 cft each
Day changed to 2026-09-19
[15:13] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6530 -- in my experience, it's less responsive compared to the prior version. it's the first time i've felt like rolling back an update. for example, prior versions allowed me to drag pretty efficiently with 4 comands per move, with the primary constraint being the space I could move and still pick up the bag. in this version, the commands to move the bag to ground and from ground to inventory take several attempts, with no clear pattern on why they're failing.
[15:13] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-15 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: if you try it out, I'd be curious to know what seems changed to you wrt play experience, if anything
[15:15] Raphael Nethersmell: another example is taking 5-10 mins to get into my storage. with obstacles including it not being available to me for a while after clicking it to not even being visible at all. this included a client restart or two failing to resolve it. it eventually was resolved, but it's not clear to me how.
[15:16] Raphael Nethersmell: stackall also appears to be less efficient. i've seen a few attempts requiring over a dozen reps for an item, whereas prior version would rarely need more than 1 or at most 2.
[15:17] Raphael Nethersmell: maybe part of the issue is my hardware ? i'm running on an x200. though the idea was this latest version was to improve efficiency.
[15:20] Raphael Nethersmell: on the dragging, it appears the item get stuck in limbo, e.g. it says i'm overbulk, but it doesn't visibly apear in my inventory, negating even my ability to click & drag as an alternative to cli.
[15:34] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6542 -- for clarity, i'm not sure if I can reproduce this as a a subsequent attempt was efficient, but that's also part of the problem, as the behaviour, good or bad, isn't very consistent.
[15:34] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-19 (Eulora 2) Raphael Nethersmell: another example is taking 5-10 mins to get into my storage. with obstacles including it not being available to me for a while after clicking it to not even being visible at all. this included a client restart or two failing to resolve it. it eventually was resolved, but it's not clear to me how.
[16:56] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, I guess this goes to show the trouble with efficiency - it's good as long as everything aligns perfectly fine but entirely horrible as soon as anything is not quite aligned. Fwiw it sounds like the usual trouble of something not making it and thus requiring another request, with the larger delays noted simply because of the larger intervals between repeated requests. And given that I haven't quite noticed such extreme troubles here while I've been running it for a couple of weeks at least, I guess it's even more dependent on the connection/hops/similar, most likely.
[16:56] Diana Coman: at any rate, it sounds quite annoying so I'll roll it back for now and will let you know
[17:04] Diana Coman: ftr for this sort of situation, what helps is simply a manual request on the node(s) in question (i.e. via reqobj or even reqtree)
[17:23] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, redeployed client, rolling back for now the part which is likely causing most of the trouble (hence, switching it back to drilling again through the full subtree on each receipt) while attempting to still keep at least the monitoring + re-request. Let me know if you give it a try and sorry for the trouble.
[17:25] Diana Coman: it should notice things promptly enough again now, with the likely downside that crowded areas/inventories will likely result in a lot of requests again and thus potential clientside stammering and/or re-syncs
Day changed to 2026-09-21
[13:54] Diana Coman: on reflection, it occurs that a sort of more gradual perception of things in the world still makes sense and is of benefit to players, only it belongs in fact serverside directly.
[13:59] Diana Coman: so there is now a change so that there will be less info available on objects that are visible in the distance but not close enough to interact with. This has been already deployed and running fine for the past 12 hours or so, with no errors or issues seen either serverside or on my client, so I'll let it in. Fwiw for my char currently there has been a reduction of more than 10% of objects with this so I'd say it's really worth it, too. And it should reduce the load in crowded areas (at least as they are not very densely packed, too), without any real loss to play experience otherwise since the still available info for far away objects is enough for the client to make them graphically visible.
[13:59] Diana Coman: anyways, let me know how it works for you, if you notice any difference either way and/or what you think of it
[18:21] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: I'll give the update a try. What's some of the info removed for distant objects?
[18:26] Vivian Sporepress: for comms efficiency I'd conjecture that the key is in guessing the player's current focus and setting request priority and/or frequency around that. e.g. delve on characters before inanimate objects, and if I'm exchanging with someone amid a big cluster of claims, refresh mostly the exchange tree, then self and counterparty, and only then the surroundings
[18:27] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, yeah, clientside it would really need to prioritise subtrees of objects of interest but accurately (and dynamically) identifying those is an interesting problem
[18:28] Vivian Sporepress: of course irl, peripheral vision is a thing and a fast one; that might mean refreshing just positions or something, that "motion detection"
[18:28] Diana Coman: especially if one wants to have an approach that is still robust enough, as well
[18:29] Diana Coman: myeah, that was my initial idea there and most likely it would yield something better with a few more iterations
[18:29] Diana Coman: only well, for now at least there's more gain obtained experience wise and specifically with the improvement serverside
[18:30] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, for objects visible in the distance, but not close enough to interact with, the server now provides only the position and the mesh/model
[18:31] Diana Coman: hence the client can show them as they are meant to look and where they are meant to be + can notice movement at the very least
[18:33] Vivian Sporepress: that actually makes it more closely follow the restriction in the GUI where you can't click to examine distant things even if you can see them. sounds like it's also the end of that long-distance resource knowledge mapping from hearing others' distant claims
[18:36] Diana Coman: well, you can still see them, only with way less detail - but if interested, can certainly get closer for a full inspection!
[18:36] Diana Coman: but yeah, less of a perfect scanner-vision
[18:38] Vivian Sporepress: in other interesting problems, it's looking like keeping rsync out of Gales has still been [https://rsync.samba.org/security.html#s3_5_0][a good call] and I'm starting to see a big part of its smell as coming fundamentally from exactly that server-push approach which was thought necessary for efficiency
[18:42] Vivian Sporepress: while sftp, both the protocol spec and openssh implementation, looks like a strong starting point for a secure and efficient pull-based mirroring/backup tool; it's just the included client that's stuck with no more goals in life than to emulate the interactive linemode ftp client
[19:54] Vivian Sporepress: Irene Dancecove: your character is looking unwell
[19:57] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: new client's working ok so far, some things are slow to respond but hard to say it's anything different.
[20:26] Vivian Sporepress: now I don't see characters' name labels until I get close, even if the client still remembers who they are when I inspect.
[20:46] Vivian Sporepress: the client seems to be having more trouble cleaning out deleted objects. for instance even if I do a full-world reqtree, expired markers are staying in view and showing "Unknown name", until I do a reqobj on each specific one.
[21:21] Vivian Sporepress: so I'm here in a field of 30 mostly-expired markers playing roulette to guess which might still be buildable.
[21:42] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6570 -- same with Felicia Solecrimp. yet to be seen if she'll figure out crafting and lighten her load before her vitals are drained.
[21:42] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-21 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: Irene Dancecove: your character is looking unwell
[22:10] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, I see how that might happen, will fix it tomorrow, thanks. At the same time, you don't need any roulette really, since they'll get their names (and more) as you get closer. And the keys in inv help too, since they will become lbn when the claims expire.
[22:11] Diana Coman: the reqtree trouble will get fixed though
[22:15] Diana Coman: on the name labels, it's more a matter of which info the client shows - the gui by default shows current view as it has it from the server at that moment i.e. no memory, hence the Nameless (though for names specifically the client has its own memory indeed esp since it needs it for chat to work fine at any distance)
[22:15] Diana Coman: but yeah, at a distance one can't quite tell who exactly they see !
[22:16] Diana Coman: on the expired claims, I should add that e1 did not even mark expired claims *at all* - only it gladly ate your bundle if/when you tried to build it again
[22:17] Diana Coman: so dunno, possibly e2 got too accommodating :D
[22:23] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, the rsync comment sounds reasonable to me and yes, problems of principle (as is the push approach) are fundamental for a reason
Day changed to 2026-09-22
[09:17] Diana Coman: freshly deployed client with fixed reqtree so that it does exactly what is expected and requests the full subtree from the given t parameter (including t itself)
[09:21] Diana Coman: should add that currently the client follows up on any node received with a request for its children so the reqtree is more of a burst request to get any existing changes even faster (with the potential downside that the burst may be too heavy and thus ending up with a re-sync which overall is...slower, so yeah, better used sparringly)
[09:22] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, the above clientside update should fix the issue you noticed yesterday & sorry about it.
[23:19] Vivian Sporepress: I tend to use reqtree specifically targetted such as on a claim marker, or at top-level only sparingly when I really want that "rsync --delete" cleanup of expired clutter.
[23:27] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6577 - what happened was that when I got close, the claims would neither get a name nor disappear, so I couldn't distinguish slow comms from deleted claim until I tried to act on it. because still-valid claims also show as nameless for some interval on approach now since the name is only visible now close-up and the client doesn't recall it.
[23:27] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-21 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, I see how that might happen, will fix it tomorrow, thanks. At the same time, you don't need any roulette really, since they'll get their names (and more) as you get closer. And the keys in inv help too, since they will become lbn when the claims expire.
[23:39] Vivian Sporepress: since the prior update I've also been getting freezes on first load of the chat window, but it loads eventually. perhaps not so much a failure to join up with the saved log entirely as a slow procedure for doing it?
[23:44] Vivian Sporepress: the claim keys can help to find things too, but there's a lot of switching between visual and text modalities: click in inventory to get coordinates; relocate, wait & forcepos in console; click to examine. doing it all from console takes a few extra "ls" hops to find & dereference the refid
Day changed to 2026-09-23
[00:02] Vivian Sporepress: the tree cleanup seems working again now, thanks.
[05:44] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/09/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Sep-2026/#6581 -- looks like i learned the hard way that e2 eats bundles in q4 craft tables. used markers can be used to make crafting bundles, but apparently used craft tables cannot.. kinda sucks to have learned when attempting to build my highest q ppbb so far, with 43914 shell of inputs. i suppose that might vault me to the top of the leaderboard of biggest losses ? lulz.
[05:44] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-09-21 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: on the expired claims, I should add that e1 did not even mark expired claims *at all* - only it gladly ate your bundle if/when you tried to build it again
[08:32] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, because vanished claims don't directly appear in the tree at a normal traversal so the client will take a little longer to figure out that they are gone (as they end up marked as ghosts and so it requests them specifically). Under normal comms conditions, it should be precisely that still-existing claims gain a name (and the rest of details) on approach, while ghost ones remain unnamed even closer up and eventually vanish. I guess there would still be a bit of wait for this difference to show - not sure though, was it really not happening at all or just not fast enough for the play?
[08:36] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, awww, if it's any consolation, I'm pretty sure those older vanished remarkable claims of mine were worth at least that if not more! On the more practical side though, it's *not* the used aspect of a claim that allows bundle making - it's really the mismatch aka the fact that the 2nd step of the transformation process can't proceed. Meaning: you can make a tiny grass bundle in a 100q tiny flotsam claim (or anything other than tiny grass). And in general, using worn out/defective stuff is more likely to backfire one way or another so probably something to test with caution, if testing is even wanted...
[08:37] Diana Coman: so yeah, sort of the lenience of claims *not* eating bundles led to wrong conclusions and ultimately larger loss, huh
[17:01] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, touche. i realize now i was thinking in terms of action that resulted in a loss more than loss of potential gain because couldn't take the action because hadn't yet found the materials which the action required. positive v negative space points of view, i suppose.
[17:03] Raphael Nethersmell: makes sense that the worn out defective capital backfires, like afk how the odds are rising that more petrol refineries blow up in coming months as less maintanence is being done on them because the crack spread blow out is inducing the refinery owners to... overly opportunistic.
[17:10] Raphael Nethersmell: odds rising a lulzy because one the one hand it means increased probability, but on the other hand rising betting odds means higher payout which implies less probable outcome.
[17:10] Raphael Nethersmell: is* lulzy
Day changed to 2026-09-24
[08:31] Diana Coman: eh, odds like everything else need some very specific context or they can be ...at odds! Lolz. Specifically, there is at all times at the very least the actual probability of something happening (which is generally unknown and unreachable directly, unless one really controls the underlying generating process), the estimated probability (which is what goes more commonly by "probability"), the perceived probability etc
[08:36] Diana Coman: as for petrol specifically, it does seem to be quite set for more troubles for at least a good while and sure, lack of maintenance in some parts works just as well for this
Day changed to 2026-09-25
[02:54] Felicia Solecrimp: Ulrich Logfetch where are you?
[02:54] Ulrich Logfetch: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -7.42 99.77 16.90 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
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