| dorion: | just gave the latest article a second read. seems like he's saying, "you all could be men, but for whatever reason you're not and I've had enough of the retardation to interact with it further. perhaps me walking away is what's needed to wake you up." | [03:03] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-03-12 feedbot: http://trilema.com/2020/closure/ << Trilema -- Closure. | [03:03] |
| jfw: | To echo what I said in private: my read is further that it's not even our own failing : we're the hermit crabs that don't stand a chance because the environment is too poisoned; the vines after phyloxera; the sex after syphilis | [03:16] |
| dorion: | the deepest part of me doesn't want to accept that. | [03:18] |
| jfw: | dorion: sounds healthy to me. I'm not sure what to make of it as yet, gonna take time. | [03:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion jfw the situation is what it is; what you make of it though, going further is your choice entirely | [05:14] |
| diana_coman: | and in that, there is no "don't stand a chance" that matters really | [05:15] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks. though it sucks, there's a lot to learn and I'm not giving up nor going away. | [05:18] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw and for as long as there is a use to it that I can see, I'll still be here. | [05:20] |
| diana_coman: | perhaps one way to see this is that here's a mighty wall, after all. | [05:20] |
| diana_coman: | will bbl | [05:28] |
| dorion: | diana_coman thanks, it's worth a lot and I'll endeavor to make it useful for you. I know it's been useful for me to date and it's my responsibility to outgrow the retardation that I let make it less useful then it could've been. | [05:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: is it clear what I'm saying there re test-run? | [14:09] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-03-12 diana_coman: jfw: listen, you do a full test-run of everything so that you can properly guide someone step by step and you know 200\% what is required and at what point. | [14:09] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: hmm I thought so: going through the exact process, ideally in a fresh environment, to make sure it works | [14:10] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: certainly in a fresh environment, taking note of what is required and what the concrete steps are; obv, you are talking to a literate (and computer literate too) person so you will adjust your *guidance* accordingly, but that comes *after* having done the test run fully so that you can *pick* any level of detail needed (and even adjust higher/lower on the fly, as/if needed) | [14:12] |
| diana_coman: | it's not just about "make sure it works" but also having in detail the *explicit* knowledge of what the process is *in practice*. | [14:15] |
| diana_coman: | there's a big gap between implicit ("I know I'm able to do it and it will work") and explicit ("here are the steps and I can tell you at which why and how and what are prerequisites + results & where to look if something goes wrong) | [14:16] |
| diana_coman: | at each* | [14:17] |
| jfw: | I see. | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | but you see, stuff like this comes out of interactions only; and the fact that it was lacking betrays precisely "been working only alone and/or with close/same-mind friends"... | [14:18] |
| diana_coman: | I kind of have an inkling that if I attended one of those events in Panama, I'd be laughing a *lot*. | [14:19] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, I'll be back at 7pm as usual. | [14:20] |
| jfw: | here I thought it betrayed only v-sloppiness | [14:20] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I may be thinking myself into knots here so I'll try to express. With the "explicit knowledge" point in mind, it occurs to me there's more trouble waiting than just V or even GNAT: | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: not only v-sloppiness, no; because it's obviously not limited to that (it's not even all that clear that it *can* be limited that narrowly, ever) | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: go ahead | [16:20] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: what's your plan re Qntra now? | [16:21] |
| jfw: | suppose MP says "how do I use this v.pl of yours, what is perl ?" Onto the previously assumed dependencies list it goes, and then, "what version / how do I get it"? To which I'd say, "idk, it was just the one on my machine, here's a link but no idea if/how it'll build in your environment" | [16:22] |
| jfw: | and I begin to see (more clearly) how S.MG ended up trying to capture ubuntu... | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you *can* have a list of pre-requisites, you know? just like you said e.g. http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959149 | [16:23] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-03-07 jfw: Can I assume you have an x86_64 unixlike with gcc for the install? | [16:23] |
| diana_coman: | but yes, that's basically the missing complete republican computer | [16:24] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-03-12 mp_en_viaje: jfw, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959149 << was this more a "can i assume you have a complete republican computer, as per the [not yet written, let alone become part of common culutre] recipe" ? | [16:24] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: fwiw, CS itself pretty much ends up an OS and for similar reasons, yes | [16:24] |
| jfw: | aha. I realize though that I have no idea what versions of perl v.pl works with (kinda doubt anyone else does either but maybe I should ask around?) so as to specify the prereq | [16:25] |
| jfw: | oh hey, it says in the v_quick_start.txt, how about that. | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the first step is to gather the list of what is needed, anyway; hm, I think for starters there was a list of pre-requisites (from trb perhaps?) and re v.pl I don't recall it having a problem on any perl version; you can say "tested on this and that", it's not the absurd "I can now point to the full list of versions of the software (and combinations since environment!!) and say on which it works and on which it doesn't" | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, see? | [16:27] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: for that matter mod6 documented v.pl extremely well and it's *that* the reason I stuck with it (even though I am no fan of perl, at all) | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: any further questions re that test-run/preparing? | [16:29] |
| jfw: | well, re gnat: I could tweak v.pl as whaack did to use keksum and avoid that whole dependency - except there's reasons it was used, the vdiff works better and such. Still vacillating on that. | [16:31] |
| jfw: | in question form: do you see a downside to my using keksum to bypass gnat for this application? | [16:32] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: heh, the trouble is really in how you use it ie ...I can't answer that as stated really; on one hand, being able to drop gnat entirely can be a huge plus; otoh you are moving at the last minute from a known-to-work solution to an ad-hoc put-together so ... | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sanely, you should talk to MP and agree on a deadline for next attempt really; then plan your way accordingly. | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | and for that matter, if it were me, I'd probably have *both* options on the table. | [16:34] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: yeah that sounds much better than how I'm going about it. | [16:35] |
| diana_coman: | obv, you should have at least some idea as to what you can have ready by when | [16:35] |
| jfw: | also ack on the v.pl docs point and thanks mod6 for that. | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | thanks are one thing, learning from it is even better :P | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | moving on to the end of tmsr - hopefully it is clear that moving forwards is possible but not without significant changes, since it can't be "the same thing" by any definition | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020643 - it makes sense it will take time indeed; it'll probably take less if there is some conversation | [16:43] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 03:31:32 jfw: dorion: sounds healthy to me. I'm not sure what to make of it as yet, gonna take time. | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | and atm the silence on this is rather ...loud. | [16:43] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it's not clear to me yet what the forwards or changes might be, though perhaps this is so for everyone | [16:44] |
| jfw: | certainly clear it doesn't go forward as before. | [16:44] |
| diana_coman: | ave1, billymg, BingoBoingo, bvt, dorion, lobbes, spyked, trinque, whaack - do you care to say your mind on this, at all? | [16:45] |
| dorion: | hi diana_coman | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | hi there | [16:45] |
| dorion: | I don't know if this is being overly hard on myself, but I can help but think that the tmsr os article from yest and subsequent conversation with trinque was the straw that broke the camels' back resulting in the closure. | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I can set your mind at rest on that score - no, it was not. | [16:46] |
| dorion: | perhaps if it was published in december or januaury or even february in that state it'd have been a different story. | [16:46] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: what does going further refer to - simply the meaning I was taking from the text or what to do about it or what? | [16:46] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 05:14:56 diana_coman: dorion jfw the situation is what it is; what you make of it though, going further is your choice entirely | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: and for starters, it's unclear if you are being too hard on yourself or too full of yourself to really think *you broke* the whole thing; but even beyond this, I'll tell you: no, it's not your doing as such. | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: what's the meaning you took from the text? | [16:47] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I said straw because I've inferred from what I've read that the chances of this happening have been increasing as time has passed. | [16:48] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: that MP was saying we don't stand a chance at (his definition of) being men because the toxic environment prevents it. | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: the collection of evidence accumulates as time passes; what's that to do with it though? | [16:49] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I'm in on moving forward, and working the Qntra plan. I have today a very picky crawler that goes from a starting url to a targets list. Still have to work on the filters to catch more good commentable targets, but it is going. http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=6LPR | [16:50] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: right; so for starters, what's your understanding of the "closure" anyway? | [16:50] |
| jfw: | That he's reached closure (except for the "maybe we'll see"s at the end) on the question of whether his envisioned republic is possible to build now | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: that's not answering at all what's your plan for qntra; for one thing, may I remind you that you have a board for qntra and I'm not even on it, right? for the other, may I also remind you that Qntra is even now branded as ~"tmsr herald"- which is hardly a fit *after tmsr*, yes? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: ok, what was his envisioned republic? | [16:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: that, I don't have a good definition for. | [16:54] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I'm not sure what it has to do with it. my instinct is to look at what I could've done first and I know I could've done better even before registering with deedbot and talking and that's where I'm at now. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, what *do* you have for it? you know, you can't set reality on hold until you come up with definitions for it, it's not how things work in practice ever. | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes, you could have certainly done better; not only you for that matter; and yes, it's worth learning from it ALL you can and fast, esp since it sucks that much that possibly you really don't want similar suck in the future; there is *also* the important fact that what you failed to do NEVER invalidates what you DID do well, despite a very common tendency to think/feel that way | [16:58] |
| dorion: | diana_coman my concept of the envisioned republic was independent agents that could/would implement the culture he's exhaustively made the case for being superior. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yours? | [16:58] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: indeed. well, it focused on elitism, or rather, focused explicitly and honestly on that, rejecting socialist notions of human equality; it involved building relationships between capable people and strengthening them, based on strong cryptographic tools, and maintaining the tools to keep it working | [16:59] |
| dorion: | jfw what's your concept of elitism ? | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: do those include any of the horrific bits you mentioned? | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what is that culture to be implemented? | [17:02] |
| jfw: | the phrase "the lord can get away with bloody murder, though that doesn't mean it's not bloody or not murder" comes to mind | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: why does that come to mind or how? | [17:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman a blend of scholarship, trade where it makes sense, war when necessary (or desired), patriachy and harem. | [17:06] |
| dorion: | patriarchy* | [17:06] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Alright. At some point I'm going to have to talk to mircea_popescu to see what he wants to do with Qntra. Post-TMSR, I'm inclined to rebrand around an anti-socialist/anti-USG line. I want to keep working the plan for growth and continue using Qntra as a vehicle for WoT growth, and as a vehicle for myself to mature and break my dependence on ad-hoc'ing everything. | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: well vehicle and all that, the question though is whether it's going to be a business or a hobby or what exactly? | [17:09] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it relates to the earlier question if not quite answering it in that, if the lord may do as he pleases, then that includes rape, murder, torture or whatever else; I also see his point as being there are necessarily such people in the world whether called lords or not so what of it. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020716 - btw, this footnote possibly sheds more light on this. | [17:11] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 16:58:11 diana_coman: dorion: yes, you could have certainly done better; not only you for that matter; and yes, it's worth learning from it ALL you can and fast, esp since it sucks that much that possibly you really don't want similar suck in the future; there is *also* the important fact that what you failed to do NEVER invalidates what you DID do well, despite a very common tendency to think/feel that way | [17:11] |
| jfw: | dorion: elitism means orienting toward / focusing resources on the most capable few in a group | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: one important bit in there is that nobody just "implements" a culture like that; it's never the case that anything works by means of applying a set of recipes to whatever is out there. | [17:13] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I am inclined to pursue it as a business, if possible. I want to make this thing live and make the changes to myself and my tools necessary for that to happen. | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | the trouble with that enforce this and make the problems go away is that the very core aka the approach itself is nonsense, not that one set of rules/recipes are worse than another. | [17:15] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-10-16 17:15:07 dorion: he doesn't exactly live in reality. he lives in a fantasy, in part, that if the US consitution were enforced usia's problems would in large part be resolved. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | (well, some can be argued to be worse than others too, sure, but that's not all that significant compared to the deeper and bigger problem) | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: it's not a matter of inclination but one of decisive action (to say perhaps more than decision+action); and one that requires a certain approach + resources; at any rate, if you want to make it a business, you are certainly best off retaining MP as manager if at all possible; and so perhaps start from making sure *that* is possible, I have no idea. | [17:17] |
| lobbes: | http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/ossasepia/2020-03-12#1020680 << I mean, if the Republic is to actually stand the test of time then it will need to be able to stand sans-MP. I wish he weren't closing up shop of course, but that's his call. The man sure gave a lot of himself and his experience (for free, I might add) for almost a decade and not too much came of it. I can understand his decision. | [17:17] |
| ericbot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 19:35:19 diana_coman: ave1, billymg, BingoBoingo, bvt, dorion, lobbes, spyked, trinque, whaack - do you care to say your mind on this, at all? | [17:17] |
| lobbes: | Only thing to do now is the same thing we did yesterday: keep trying to do meaningful work so that actual humans can continue to find and work with other actual humans. Maybe we do good and he returns, but in any case our path is the same | [17:17] |
| lobbes: | anyways, I've been glued to the logs/blogs most of today. I need a break. I'll be back later tonight most likely to get that final historical dump ready for MP | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: do you mean the republic without mp? | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: at the grass roots life goes on the same, sure. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | at any rate, laters, no worries. | [17:19] |
| lobbes: | diana_coman: well, we'd need single authority yeah. Definitely can't end up like the cat-v channels of the world sure | [17:20] |
| lobbes: | or whatever that chan was called | [17:20] |
| lobbes: | I just meant more like http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936229 | [17:20] |
| ericbot: | (trilema) 2019-09-14 lobbes: http://logs.ericbenevides.com/log/trilema/2019-09-14#1936160 << verily. Furthermore, the inescapable truth is that one day mircea_popescu will shuffle off this mortal coil. Why anyone would not want to eat as much of his brain while he is around is completely unfathomable to me, especially since he is willingly offering it to eat! The Republic will one day need to stand on its own feet and produce | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: it's deeper than that even. | [17:20] |
| lobbes: | well, I'll continue to follow diana_coman at any rate | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | well, the republic did not stand on its own feet, it withered rather; this is the situation that is and while I see ways forwards, none of them are "we are still tmsr". | [17:22] |
| lobbes: | yeah, I see what you mean. If we couldn't stand with MP how are we to stand without | [17:22] |
| jfw: | it would be like saying "well MP concluded it didn't work, and we thought he knew things, but this time we're sure he's wrong so we'll try anyway" right? | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020729 - jfw , quite a significant part of the closure is precisely the conclusion that ...no, there aren't really anymore such people in the world, nor likely there will be as such. | [17:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 17:10:06 jfw: diana_coman: it relates to the earlier question if not quite answering it in that, if the lord may do as he pleases, then that includes rape, murder, torture or whatever else; I also see his point as being there are necessarily such people in the world whether called lords or not so what of it. | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's not even about saying that though I can see how/why you could package it that way. | [17:24] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the raep and pillage is authorized by committee exclusively now? | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: lolz, no | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: but you touch on the point in that you got in there the "authorized"already | [17:25] |
| jfw: | ah, "nobody meant it, it just sorta happened"? | [17:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: does it seem to you happening as in focused/aimed/meaningful somewhere? | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | you do realise that there's a difference between that madman ringing at your door and your earlier lord who can get away with bloody murder | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | right? | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | nobody said that madness is extinct or something, sure | [17:27] |
| dorion: | ttp://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020733 - how does culture come to be ? is that even the right question ? | [17:29] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: the madman is a figurative device isn't he? to illustrate the silliness of certain worries. | [17:30] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020733 | [17:30] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 17:13:21 diana_coman: dorion: one important bit in there is that nobody just "implements" a culture like that; it's never the case that anything works by means of applying a set of recipes to whatever is out there. | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, there are also mad people in the world and at times you can literally meet them, right? not like it didn't or can't happen. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | whereas, GW Bush and friends got away with war crimes no problem, probably believed their own narratives too | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: it's certainly a better question indeed. | [17:31] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: sure, and I'd agree a raving madman is not a lord irrespective of whether he happens to carry bloody axe | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: in short, culture is essentially a sum-result; sure, it can be transmitted but within the environment that grew it basically, not transplanted (and the transplating approach has been tried over and over again with the same fail each and every time) | [17:36] |
| diana_coman: | transplanting* (though trans-splatting might give some idea as to how it works in practice, lolz) | [17:38] |
| diana_coman: | ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020729a - note also that what it includes is anyway indicative of the lord's *limitations* rather than of "what he can get away with" | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | not sure what do you get exactly out of that because the way you say it, it doesn't seem to be something you are all that clear on. | [17:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I will pursue Qntra as a business, if mircea_popescu will let me. Qntra is listed on MPEx and mircea_popescu does have more of the reserved block and likely more of the total equity than I. What happens depends on what he want to do: whether he wants to wait and see if my working the plan makes Qntra live, or if he wants to close out s.qntr in which case... what happens depends on what he wants and it sounds at present | [17:45] |
| BingoBoingo: | what he want is out. | [17:45] |
| dorion: | diana_coman does it then follow that mp was running an experiment to test the environment and understand to whom his culture / mode of being could be transmitted to ? any the closure is, "as far as I can tell, there's no one out there. and to those I'd been attempting to transmit to I've realized they came from an environment which retards them such that they'll die prior to having a chance to | [17:46] |
| dorion: | grow the culture I'm transmitting." | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020706 - tying this back in (because it does tie back in and we only took the detour to have it all in sight precisely to be able finally to put it together): jfw, do you understand MP's definition of man and do you actually want to fully fit that? | [17:47] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 16:49:57 jfw: diana_coman: that MP was saying we don't stand a chance at (his definition of) being men because the toxic environment prevents it. | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I guess it would help you to have a think at the question above ^ too | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | key words in the question above being *fully fit* | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | and note that the point is to look exactly at what is; there's no "should be/should not be" answer there. | [17:50] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: you're right that I'm not all that clear on http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020729 , and I'm pretty sure I don't understand his definition and so do not know whether I want to fully fit it. | [17:51] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 17:10:06 jfw: diana_coman: it relates to the earlier question if not quite answering it in that, if the lord may do as he pleases, then that includes rape, murder, torture or whatever else; I also see his point as being there are necessarily such people in the world whether called lords or not so what of it. | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | if the answer given there matches *reality*, regardless of which of the two possible answers it is, you can go ahead and build on it and you stand a chance to succeed at the direction thus chosen precisely because it fits reality; if however the answer given does not match, you'll go the way that is ~guaranteed to result in failure as it's hallucinated rather than real. | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: well, the full definition might not even be needed, since the "fully fit" hard test comes with the convenience of being very easy to reject at least; so take some of the most uneasy/horrifying parts and check first on those. | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020778 - that may very well be; understand that as long as you can't find *any* sort of drive of your own and no focus on what you *can* control as opposed to what you can't, you won't be able to run a business because how and on what is it exactly supposed to run? on its own power and drive, are you aiming to prove yet again that perpetuum mobile can somehow be made or what? | [18:02] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 17:45:27 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I will pursue Qntra as a business, if mircea_popescu will let me. Qntra is listed on MPEx and mircea_popescu does have more of the reserved block and likely more of the total equity than I. What happens depends on what he want to do: whether he wants to wait and see if my working the plan makes Qntra live, or if he wants to close out s.qntr in which case... what happens depends on what he wants and it sounds at present | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: it's not about "mp will let me" ffs; for that matter, do you have the impression that he's either a toddler who just wants to throw toys out of the pram or an idiot who makes decisions randomly and therefore can't be convinced of anything, or what? | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | jfw, dorion did I block you there? | [18:05] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: dorion just called to say his power went out, and he acks the question & is thinking on it. | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | ah, ok | [18:05] |
| jfw: | I seem a bit blocked though, heh. | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | well, the tough questions that need to be asked & answered though; such is the very meaning of significant changes, after all. | [18:07] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: do you know his definition of man or have references on it? I have a notion it's something I know but part of me doesn't want to see. Then again, half the stuff I said in this thread came back "that's not it" so... not feeling too confident. | [18:11] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I do not have that impression of him. He is very clearly taking a reasoned approach to his withdrawal. I have to admit, what has gotten me into trouble is trying to predict where reason will lead him when I am so far behind. | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: why the fuck would you focus on *prediction* of other peoples' reasoning instead of focusing on what you are trying to *do*, ffs | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | ofc it will backfire and not even because of "so far behind" but precisely because of being an idiotic approach to start with; it IS the very essence of exam-taking after all. | [18:14] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: I've learned that and now find myself unfamiliar with the alternative. | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: so take him as best example (and well documented, at that) of his definition, what's wrong with that? | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and take some of the more "outrageous" acts, whichever seem that way to you. | [18:16] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the reason I'm not providing you with "the definition" is that I doubt it will be any help if the detailed, documented and interacted-with live example can't help. | [18:17] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: dunno, beating women? | [18:19] |
| diana_coman: | BingoBoingo: are you telling me that 30+ years you practiced ~exclusively the...prediction mode? | [18:20] |
| diana_coman: | is ready to believe that, if stated. | [18:21] |
| BingoBoingo: | diana_coman: Nearly exclusively. | [18:21] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: It's a lot to digest upon return to my terminal, especially while standing on thin ice. I am not fully caught up on the logs that lead to MP's decision. Anyways, here are my first thoughts: My understanding is that evidence MP has collected over the years has led him to conclude that the potential of tmsr is too low to be worth his time. This means that everyone who interacted in #t | [18:21] |
| whaack: | has lost a valuable resource, and whatever is built in the ruins of tmsr will only be a fraction of what-could-have-been. As far as I can tell, building that fraction of tmsr is still worth doing. I plan to continue to work under you as before, provided I am able to make that worth your time. | [18:21] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: if beating's consensual I don't see a problem, but it doesn't really appeal to me. Then again it also seems used metaphorically as giving appropriate correction, which I would wish to emulate. | [18:21] |
| jfw: | Also I like & respect the living interacted example, or I wouldn't have taken him up on the veuve cliquot invite. But then there's http://trilema.com/2017/how-to-be-a-pimp-the-simple-comprehensible-and-exhaustive-guide/?b=So\%20then.&e=:#select for example (and he sez all the stories are true!) | [18:23] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: the question is not that; the question is quite simple though admiteddly difficult to answer without actual practice: can you do X? (and note that no, can do does not mean one will always do it but it does mean that one has the option to do it and *exercises a choice* each time when does/doesn't do it) | [18:24] |
| diana_coman: | a consensual beating as in what, a signed statement/recorded message/what exactly? | [18:25] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: what's the "thin ice"? | [18:25] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-03-Mar-2020#1019854 | [18:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-03 04:34:08 diana_coman: whaack: if I end up asking you a question about the point of the previous question that was on why an even earlier question was needed, I'll just as soon go get my key and negrate, save some time; seriously now, do you want to *do* something or do you enjoy my conversation only? | [18:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: and appeal has nothing to do with it really; again, not like being able to do something means you have to do it all the time or even frequently or whatever. | [18:26] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: now I wonder if you even glimpsed anywhere near *how much* there is to the example in terms of "can & did", huh. | [18:28] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: consensual as in, i dunno, free to go as he indeed says his women are, not trying to be the state of california here lol | [18:29] |
| jfw: | I think I start to see what you're getting at though | [18:31] |
| dorion: | is plugged in at friends office and catching up | [18:31] |
| jfw: | (that's confident-jfw right there huh!) | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: but what, literally blackouts in panama now? | [18:32] |
| jfw: | transformers seem to blow from time to time indeed. | [18:32] |
| jfw: | they get fixed, like my stuff apparently, once on fire | [18:33] |
| dorion: | diana_coman not sure exactly. there was a truck on my block, but I didn't stop to ask. | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | ah, it's not the old-ro-commie version of industry-first but the more modern version of maintenance-what-maintenance? | [18:34] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: no worries, I just didn't have any idea those happened there, that's all. | [18:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: I don't know what the industry-first was like but that sounds about right. | [18:35] |
| jfw: | oh I see waht you mean, factories taking priority over residences and such. | [18:36] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: yes, that's exactly what it was; my hometown is/was an industrial town (petrol refineries, plural as in 4+) so lots of experience with residences being disconnected because unimportant. | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: getting back to the "fully fit", how about this? | [18:43] |
| dorion: | diana_coman re fully fit to his definition of man, while I'm not ready to given what the definition is, the "horrifying" parts don't scare me and in fact seem to resonate with the younger version of me that was poisoned by usia. | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: each picks their own "horrifying" - are there any horrifying for you? | [18:48] |
| dorion: | diana_coman not that come to mind now and to the extent there were, confronting them made me stronger. | [18:50] |
| BingoBoingo: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020808 << Upon reflection I can't recall any clear exceptions in 30+ years. Growing up it seemed to work, and when it stopped working, I never managed to replace it. I'd just been trying to tweak the prediction approach without ever actually trying anything else. | [18:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 18:20:45 diana_coman: BingoBoingo: are you telling me that 30+ years you practiced ~exclusively the...prediction mode? | [18:50] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: still working on le cercle rouge, but - this kind of can & did are you talking about? | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: that's surely one sort of can&did, yes; not the only sort, but works as one example, certainly. | [18:54] |
| jfw: | or - apparently I'm starting to have fun with the horrors - there's the HLP still afaik in the "can" category; or http://trilema.com/2016/how-i-convinced-some-jailbirds-im-more-demented-than-they-could-ever-hope-to-be/ reportedly in the "did" | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: well, resonate is one thing, esp when with past version of self; the question is -and can only be- re current & future. | [18:57] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: there's fun in everything! | [18:57] |
| dorion: | diana_coman before it gets too late today, jfw and I haven't talked about it yet, but I would prefer to continue with "tmsr os" rather than pile on what he's done with gales. what are your thoughts ? | [18:57] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: what does it mean "to continue with tmsr os"? | [18:58] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Mikado/There_is_beauty_in_the_bellow_of_the_blast | [19:00] |
| dorion: | it means to continue to find people to commit to owning the parts under V to support the implicit clients established on schedules. | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: to the extent that you want to do that, it can be, why not; but do realise that there's as always a whole context to it and as such, it will still need some re-think and some discussion and some wider planning. | [19:01] |
| dorion: | diana_coman right and won't be a continuation of what was with mp. | [19:02] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: indeed, not quite the same thing, since the tmsr- part of it is no more as such. | [19:03] |
| dorion: | diana_coman will s.mg be continuing eulora ? | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | but this is part of what I was saying at the very start today, that what you make of it moving forwards is entirely your choice. | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: yes, s.mg is a business on mpex, so why wouldn't it? | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | and eulora is the flagship game, not a tmsr-something anyway | [19:05] |
| dorion: | diana_coman I expected it would, but would rather ask plainly. | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: sure; and as you very well know, questions are better asked, yes. | [19:06] |
| dorion: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020844 - I think so, but I accept I have to prove it to myself to understand it can. | [19:06] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 18:57:17 diana_coman: dorion: well, resonate is one thing, esp when with past version of self; the question is -and can only be- re current & future. | [19:06] |
| dorion: | diana_coman, do you think that's ^^^ an unneccessary hedge in my speech that's holding me back ? | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: I can't quite tell as such; it can be either that or exactly true as stated; it will take some time to tell. | [19:15] |
| diana_coman: | dorion: one thing to get fully at this point though is that *nothing good will happen in a hurry* | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | despite what it might seem, it's *not* an emergency. | [19:16] |
| dorion: | diana_coman ok, thank you. I think I can patient. | [19:17] |
| dorion: | be patient | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | it's way past that point in a sense so there is now at least the obligation (and luxury, all in one) of taking the time to figure out what is and moreover what lasts past the initial rush. | [19:18] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: so with http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Mar-2020#1020835 does the fitting mean: to be the sort who's willing to hunt or be hunted down to the death? | [19:22] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-12 18:43:16 diana_coman: jfw: getting back to the "fully fit", how about this? | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: among other things, yes; for starters even to be one even not all that concerned about dieing; not in the suicidal sense but in the very simple sense that "if it gets there, so be it" | [19:24] |
| jfw: | aha, http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2020-03-07#1959141 I was just recounting over dinner last night. | [19:25] |
| ossabot: | (trilema) 2020-03-07 mp_en_viaje: for as long as you live, your death does not exist, and therefore is no concern of yours; once your death exists or whatever actualizes itself there's necessarily nobody any longer there to fret about it. | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: it's a very...practical thing, let's say; because how/whether you are concerned or not does decide in the end what you do and esp what you don't do. | [19:30] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: if you want, it's yet another version of that "get over yourself" - funnily enough getting over yourself is actually ...helping precisely yourself. | [19:30] |
| BingoBoingo: | eating this food for the thinking. | [19:35] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: it sure does decide. | [19:38] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: thanks much for the conversation today. My brain is about cooked and needs a proper break for now. | [19:41] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: sure; and as previously said - there is time that *has to* be taken properly, none of this will get sorted in a day. | [19:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | to put some news on Qntra, get back into regex to make the crawler less picky, and look for the defensible lines | [19:47] |
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