| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002112 - the article describes a hierarchy of activities, not a "project"; ie you can do 1001 activities of type 1 (figuring out how stuff works) or not, it's not like a recipe of sorts | [03:13] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 19:10:47 shrysr: stacked chairs...crude .. some holes...some dependent on user permissions in windows by admin. even this was deemed 'wont work'... worked for 3+ years. 1 year in my absence after i left mine... which is when they finally bought a fucking computing cluster for simulations iirc. the point is - the whole project and thought process --- very aligned to the layers described. | [03:13] |
| diana_coman: | in other words, it's a descriptive piece, useful to understand a part of human activities, not a prescriptive thing "you should follow those steps" | [03:14] |
| diana_coman: | but yes re alignment, that's why I've sent you to read it: because it fits and therefore you can use it as structure to start actually knowing yourself | [03:15] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002126 - ahahha; certifications, verifications, checks and all that - as long as there is nobody publicly and meaningfully taking responsibility, it'll be only empty labels, of course, what (and how) else. | [03:18] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 22:08:18 whaack: my recent job has me working with shithub. i uploaded code that i never signed that has a green sticker "verified" by me | [03:18] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002140 - it's not; the fact that you had the luck to find your way to just about the ~only place where yes, it is fundamental, doesn't mean that it's because "everyone knows it" or something. | [03:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 22:20:19 shrysr: well..even brief look at the ads is enough to confirm google does i guess? its prolly like treasure trove for em. ... same for shithub.. how cd they not peek? i guess if i had chance - i def would... but isnt - private key / encryption or atleast fundamentals kindda 101 for atleast comp sci ppl ? | [03:20] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002157 - inb8 shrysr wants to unleash machine learning on such data to extract precious knowledge out of the fudge :D | [03:21] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 22:35:59 lobbes: I've lost count of how many times the 'reports' are changed/fudged before release, or how completely constructed ALL of the data is, or how many times I've heard that the various audit agents of the 'OCC' (office of comptrollers of the currency) literally just look for some \% of issues boxes to tick on their sheet. It is all pretend, to make it *look like something* is happening. To justify the printing | [03:21] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose if could be some fun to extract the patterns of fudging but I can't say I see much point/would be arsed. | [03:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002116 - mk but this is not at all the thing explicitly requested in http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1001997 | [03:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 21:09:59 whaack: diana_coman: so my previous work is a just few qntra articles http://qntra.net/author/whaack/ . I started to do research on how many coins are in the segwit ecosystem but did not finish. http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-21#1741793 Stan mentioned from that thread that a sha256 in CL was needed, perhaps that is still an open task? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-23#1742513 | [03:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 13:28:55 diana_coman: whaack: maybe make a summary with any tmsr-related things that you did so far and otherwise any tmsr parts/items you find interesting | [03:26] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: you have a blog, right? Summarise there "I did x with y results; and z with t results etc"; link everything relevant, sure, but summarise the main points so that reader doesn't HAVE TO follow your links to figure out wtf you did | [03:27] |
| diana_coman: | and part 2: take the time to go through all tmsr-things that you can find/figure out where to find and SUMMARISE that too: I looked in X and in Y and here's the list of things I found: t,p, r, etc. each of them with brief summary "this is my understanding re wtf this thing is" | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | and part 3: based on 1 and 2 above, I'm very much interested in a,b,c,d etc , in *this order* | [03:29] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: ack the above and ask for help if you need it | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | understand though that you have to ask *for help*; you are not yet in a position to "how can I help" , at all. | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw I wish you were, sure; still, you are not. | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: do you have any specific further questions re your draft? do you need anything else to revise it? there isn't all that much until Sunday, yes? | [03:32] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you know, if I still have to pull out stuff of you like a fucking dentist, I'll get a drill at least. | [03:33] |
| diana_coman: | welcome bvt | [05:25] |
| bvt: | hello, diana_coman! you have very interesting discussion here | [06:28] |
| diana_coman: | bvt: cheers! and feel free to join in. | [06:42] |
| diana_coman: | by way of introduction to readers, bvt is Lord Verschlimmbessert as per http://trilema.com/2019/antiqua-sanctorum-patrum-or-the-lordship-list-sixth-year/?b=bvt&e=#select | [06:46] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: ack, I will list my previous work with their results/failures, do research on open tmsr-tasks and list them along with a summary of my understanding of them, and produce an ordered list of the ones i'm interested in | [08:11] |
| auctionbot: | B#1057 O=100mn LB=100mn E=2019-09-12 20:26:41.479316 (20h26) >>> item as described in http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/trilema/2019-09-07#1934605 and following. | [08:48] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-07 04:57:27 mircea_popescu: so : who would like to do a spot of work for hire for me ? the ideea is to write and publish as a vpatch a stan logbot extension which a) processes search, through talking to a [presumably present] mysql server, and spitting out the results (formatted as in http://trilema.com/2019/ | [08:48] |
| auctionbot: | --- end of auction list, 100mn total bids --- | [08:48] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: good; what's your deadline for that? | [08:54] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: also, don't limit yourself to "open tasks", that's not the point; try to figure out directions/branches/parts rather; once that is clear, tasks can be found easily | [08:55] |
| diana_coman: | I'd even say forget about "open tasks"; your goal is to map (even broadly) what is going on, so that you can then choose what matches you best | [08:56] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: alternatively, if you want me to help you with matching, you'll have to say a lot more about yourself. | [08:57] |
| trinque: | points out that a vpatch-viewer is in ??? hands atm and ironically has no vpatches of itself!x01 | [10:10] |
| trinque: | possibly one can be built nicely atop esthlos' lispy V (which itself lacks a lispy vdiff) | [10:10] |
| trinque: | just two datapoints, not a hard sell. bbl | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | trinque: not a bad option for the lisp-interested, sure. | [10:16] |
| whaack: | diana_coman: This one seems tricky to estimate because it depends how in depth I need to go, but I believe a good deadline would be Sunday 22/8/19. I hope to get it done much before then, but I am going to CR on Saturday for 1 wk to get my lease settled and during that time I have salt mine obligations. | [11:01] |
| whaack: | my intuition is that I will want to be doing something working with V, perhaps on the direction of creating/maintaing a vpatch viewer as trinque suggests. V seems to be a natural starting point, since it is used in publishing/receiving all code by the republic | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | whaack: when it's tricky to estimate, the rule is this: set some not-too-distant deadline and then *publish* whatever you have by that deadline; it might be a draft rather than final, sure; the point is that you have something by a clear date. | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | so sure, Sun 22/8/19 works. | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | ahem, Sun 22/9/19. | [11:53] |
| shrysr: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002189 << yes i understand. project was an example... article seemed a reflection of the way i 'end up thinking/doing' in general, not that i ever defined the layers.. it was more by intuition + logic + even trial and error. Yes i see how it is related to understanding myself and it helps. i'm not sure all of that be fun though... fwiw it certainly was | [12:00] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 02:58:55 diana_coman: in other words, it's a descriptive piece, useful to understand a part of human activities, not a prescriptive thing "you should follow those steps" | [12:00] |
| shrysr: | in the beginning. | [12:00] |
| shrysr: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002071 << well i'd like to know.. more. Breaking teeth ... is not a pleasant thing to look fwd to obv... esp at current stage (despite willingness to embrace pain for improvement). i am curious whether break from salt mine *can* be planned 'eventually', or not. What abt 'actual amt of earning' via eulora, and okay - at some point - assuming there is no | [12:15] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 16:56:13 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002065 << shrysr -- make sure to get realistic picture of the actual amt of 'earning inside tmsr' happing atm. right nao there's diana_coman , who worx for mp; and BingoBoingo , who worx for piz ( currently powered by savings of asciilifeform and mod6 ) . errybody else toils in the saeculum . | [12:15] |
| shrysr: | more fiat--- how do you, well convert bitcoin to fiat till then? Yes, perhaps the point is to Not rely on fiat - but till the day they all fall, bread has to be bought? | [12:15] |
| whaack: | shrysr: well the best way is to network with local cash dealers. albeit this is somewhat hard if you're not in a major city, and still hard then | [12:21] |
| whaack: | iirc even localbitcoins got rid of their interface for doing cash deals | [12:21] |
| shrysr: | hmm. in these cash deals - i presume like currency conversions - you lose a \% ? | [12:23] |
| shrysr: | whaack: what abt translation to tax? say you convert a bunch of bitcoin somehow - are you supposed to sleep with the cash under mattress ? If you put it in the bank - becomes 'taxable income' ? Would the laws be different for each country for this? | [12:30] |
| whaack: | in my experience you gain a \%. people pay a premium for getting more anonymized coins then going through the gatekeepers (i.e. Coinbase) | [12:31] |
| shrysr: | ha! that is interesting. | [12:41] |
| whaack: | shrysr: well yeah... if you put it in the bank then there is a chance your local gov will take its slice of your cheese. no way around this afaik. | [12:42] |
| whaack: | (and even if you keep it in cash overtime your cheese will be taken via inflation) | [12:43] |
| shrysr: | right | [12:43] |
| asciilifeform: | whaack, shrysr : this is where it comes in handy to live in places where can pay for flat, food, etc. with paper money. ( i do not, though would like to ) | [12:44] |
| whaack: | right, this is a major reason why I will be in CR shortly | [12:45] |
| shrysr: | CR is ? | [12:45] |
| whaack: | Costa Rica | [12:45] |
| shrysr: | isnt that supposed to be holiday destination kindda ? pardon my geography etc - i suck at it. | [12:46] |
| whaack: | that is the perspective of many. when I tell people i am moving there "oh CR!! I went there once for x vacation. everyone is so happy and friendly there, and everything is beautiful, but why would u want to live there?!" | [12:48] |
| whaack: | but to be fair, the electricy/water goes MIA every once in a while, and generally it is hard to buy items compared to in the reich | [12:49] |
| shrysr: | ah! well - i dint mean that .. never been/seen, only read in snatches from wherever, and the first connection was 'holiday'. but everything beautiful and friendly - then obvious retort might be why the fuck not i guess... | [12:52] |
| shrysr: | Wikipedia >> "By 2016, 98.1\% of its electricity was generated from green sources[29] particularly hydro, solar, geothermal and biomass." for 4.3++ million population - this i think is quite impressive. afaik - this is rare. | [12:57] |
| whaack: | a few things. (1) wikipedia is not a source, mainly because of the lack-of-identity problem (2) i have my doubts re this. http://trilema.com/2016/heres-where-you-forget-about-wind-power-as-an-alternative-source-of-power/ (there's another one on detailing how solar power doesnt make up its cost, i cant recall the name of article) | [13:13] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002232 - strictly speaking the "actual amount of earning via eulora" is unlimited; practically speaking the actual amount depends on *you* so nobody can answer such a question for you; the related part you need to answer first is http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002064 | [13:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:15:48 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002071 << well i'd like to know.. more. Breaking teeth ... is not a pleasant thing to look fwd to obv... esp at current stage (despite willingness to embrace pain for improvement). i am curious whether break from salt mine *can* be planned 'eventually', or not. What abt 'actual amt of earning' via eulora, and okay - at some point - assuming there is no | [13:20] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 17:05:10 diana_coman: shrysr: you keep thinking everywhere in terms of "earn from"; are you aware of the implication of this? and for that matter, of the alternative to it? | [13:20] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 16:56:13 asciilifeform: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002065 << shrysr -- make sure to get realistic picture of the actual amt of 'earning inside tmsr' happing atm. right nao there's diana_coman , who worx for mp; and BingoBoingo , who worx for piz ( currently powered by savings of asciilifeform and mod6 ) . errybody else toils in the saeculum . | [13:20] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw, "breaking your teeth" was asciilifeform's warning re ditching job now to live from ?? | [13:21] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002234 - sure, you might need to convert some from time to time, by finding someone who wants to buy bitcoins, as simple as that | [13:23] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:15:49 shrysr: more fiat--- how do you, well convert bitcoin to fiat till then? Yes, perhaps the point is to Not rely on fiat - but till the day they all fall, bread has to be bought? | [13:23] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002238 - it depends on where you live exactly; but why would you want to "put them in a bank" ? if you do, obv you'll have to pay a share of it for this dubious pleasure. | [13:24] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:30:21 shrysr: whaack: what abt translation to tax? say you convert a bunch of bitcoin somehow - are you supposed to sleep with the cash under mattress ? If you put it in the bank - becomes 'taxable income' ? Would the laws be different for each country for this? | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002238 - wikipedia is not a source to rely on for anything. | [13:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:30:21 shrysr: whaack: what abt translation to tax? say you convert a bunch of bitcoin somehow - are you supposed to sleep with the cash under mattress ? If you put it in the bank - becomes 'taxable income' ? Would the laws be different for each country for this? | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, link for the above should have been http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002252 | [13:26] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:57:51 shrysr: Wikipedia >> "By 2016, 98.1\% of its electricity was generated from green sources[29] particularly hydro, solar, geothermal and biomass." for 4.3++ million population - this i think is quite impressive. afaik - this is rare. | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | right, as whaack says right in the next line | [13:26] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: not to mention that 98.1\% of electricity from x can *also* be achieved by having very little electricity :D | [13:28] |
| diana_coman: | learn to read stuff as it is, not as you'd like it to be and be very much aware of what is *not* said although it should be. | [13:29] |
| bvt: | achieving such percentage with hydro plants and ~zero electricity consuming industry is quite easy -- i.e. paraguay does exactly that. | [13:33] |
| BingoBoingo: | Much of South America runs on hydro power | [13:35] |
| BingoBoingo: | bvt: Paraguay has the wonderful position of sharing a number of hydrodams 50/50 with Brasil. The end up selling much of their share to Brasil | [13:36] |
| BingoBoingo: | But if it was all on Paraguay to build, probably there'd be far fewer dam shares in Paraguay's portfolio. | [13:37] |
| bvt: | yup, and the same with argentina. the saying goes that the one with argentina was designed in such a way that slums in Stroessner's home town became permanently under water. | [13:39] |
| bvt: | iirc it's 70/30, with 30 to py | [13:39] |
| BingoBoingo: | bvt: Argentina's a bit different in that Argentina imports electricity. | [13:40] |
| BingoBoingo: | bvt: I don't recall the exact split, but its enough that Paraguay gets their electricity and sells the rest. | [13:40] |
| bvt: | well, not like they need a lot of it. soy grows without electricity | [13:42] |
| BingoBoingo: | Paraguay grows a bunch of stuff. It's one of the world's top 3 cannabis producers and exporters. But yes, that grows just fine without electricity too. | [13:43] |
| BingoBoingo: | They also have the Yerba Mate, etc. | [13:43] |
| shrysr: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002254 << not treating wikipedia as gospel, but as a 'weak' indicator in the least and the comment was more along the lines 'if true', which i should have specified. i know it is a lot more complex when cost is brought into the picture, or even analysing entire carbon cycle of process w.r.t ghg emission i.e whether it *is* 'green' or not. what \% of | [13:43] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:58:19 whaack: a few things. (1) wikipedia is not a source, mainly because of the lack-of-identity problem (2) i have my doubts re this. http://trilema.com/2016/heres-where-you-forget-about-wind-power-as-an-alternative-source-of-power/ (there's another one on detailing how solar power doesnt make up its cost, i cant recall the name of article) | [13:43] |
| shrysr: | 4.3mil actually get power, resources available and what they can generate eg: wind power in a place with no wind - there are obv many holes that can be poked fwiw. I recall prof's story wherein some town in UK was deemed perfect for wind energy - and local residents vetoed saying no ugly windmill in our park or something. | [13:43] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you do realise that a. industry is generally the main consumer b. "get power" says precisely nothing by itself; how much power do they actually consume is the relevant bit overall. | [13:53] |
| diana_coman: | and given what wonderful cardboard constructions I saw right around the capital of Costa Rica, I doubt there's all that much electricity consumed. | [13:53] |
| BingoBoingo: | Here there's a special rate plan for the under 100kw/h a month crowd | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | not that I have anything against CR as destination otherwise, no. | [13:54] |
| shrysr: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002064 was meaning to address this. i dont understand the question. 'earn from' work done - implication of that thinking? alternative how? | [14:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 17:05:10 diana_coman: shrysr: you keep thinking everywhere in terms of "earn from"; are you aware of the implication of this? and for that matter, of the alternative to it? | [14:00] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: do you mean - instead of 'earn from' (i.e employee) vs employer ? | [14:03] |
| PeterL: | http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-12#1002239 << I have never had a bank collect tax when I deposited money, do they do that where you live? | [14:43] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 12:14:44 shrysr: whaack: what abt translation to tax? say you convert a bunch of bitcoin somehow - are you supposed to sleep with the cash under mattress ? If you put it in the bank - becomes 'taxable income' ? Would the laws be different for each country for this? | [14:43] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: it aint the bank that collects. bank simply rats out erry deposit to usg . | [14:43] |
| asciilifeform: | ( can't speak for elsewhere in reich, but prolly worx similarly ) | [14:44] |
| asciilifeform: | shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002185 << i live in east usa now, but orig from su, family moved when i was 9yo | [15:16] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 23:32:19 shrysr: http://logs.nosuchlabs.com/log/ossasepia/2019-09-11#1002179 < may i ask why? where did you grow up? my presumed impression was you are in/from the USA.. | [15:16] |
| shrysr: | PeterL: am no expert but believe asciilifeform is correct... it is tallied by others or atleast looked into when there are large discrepancies. My understanding is - any incoming money has to be 'declared'.. then you go into the littleeee 'loopholes' (for lack of better word) like gifts/insurance etc to bring down tax bracket. unaware as such how it worx in canada. | [15:18] |
| shrysr: | asciilifeform: sorry > what is 'su' ? | [15:24] |
| shrysr: | soviet union? | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002290 - superficially that but it goes deeper; first along the lines of extracting wealth vs creating a source of wealth and second along the lines of aiming to have a master or to be a master; note that *both* options are equally valid and perfectly fine but you have to choose. | [15:25] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 14:03:08 shrysr: diana_coman: do you mean - instead of 'earn from' (i.e employee) vs employer ? | [15:25] |
| PeterL: | shrysr: SU is soviet union, he left just before it broke up | [15:28] |
| PeterL: | asciilifeform: do I remember right that you came from Crimea? In 2014 I had a co-worker who was from Crimea, he said all his family members were very happy Putin "invaded" | [15:29] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: odessa. ( still under ukrs ) | [15:30] |
| asciilifeform: | mother -- from crimea | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | hello PeterL, what brings you here? | [15:30] |
| PeterL: | I have been reading the logs, seems like interesting conversation | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | PeterL: sure, but if it's just for conversation you can keep reading; there are a few more lurkers around | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | see the topic, it starts with "work". | [15:31] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: seems like PeterL is back in the saddle as of late. | [15:31] |
| snsabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 11:59:16 PeterL: asciilifeform: I posted some sigs of ffa vpatches on my blog: http://peterl.xyz/2019/09/signatures-for-ffa/ | [15:31] |
| asciilifeform: | PeterL: btw do post your nitpicks/notes re ^ | [15:32] |
| PeterL: | I had put some comments on your pages as I was reading | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | asciilifeform: presumably he can talk for himself though? and ask for the help he needs re work, if he's here? | [15:32] |
| asciilifeform: | diana_coman: fair'nuff | [15:33] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: ideally - creating source + being master. well, i am aware that theoretically, and to some practical extent that it is a lot pain. Thought atm is that - need master to teach so that can become master 'later'.... also time to understand this properly. Perhaps I am not totally clear about the distinction between extracting wealth and creating wealth in terms of real life / business. Planting | [15:42] |
| shrysr: | tree is creating wealth, and chopping it down is extracting perhaps in simplistic sense? I'm not exactly averse to extracting... but think that power lies in creating (if successful). Thinking : growth shd lead to becoming master and creating wealth, no matter where it starts ? | [15:42] |
| shrysr: | diana_coman: i presume if 'money' is the only goal - nothing substantial can be attained from not being master - and this can be done via creating / extracting. | [15:45] |
| shrysr: | from the point of view of time + energy - aiming to have a master is conducive to freedom to look at 'other things' i guess. | [16:06] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: growth depends on the person too, it's not like anyone can grow into anything at all. | [16:33] |
| diana_coman: | so in this sense, you don't have all possible choices, nobody does | [16:34] |
| shrysr: | hmm.. i was gonna ask abt this in the morning and got side tracked, w.r.t to http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002084 | [16:41] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-11 17:21:31 diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-11-Sep-2019#1002075 - ?? the whole point is to become the best he can be, not to become fucking me or bingo or someone else, ffs. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: so ask. | [16:41] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002317 - more like making an orchard vs foraging the land for fruit to sell (or even just planting trees) | [16:50] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 15:42:20 shrysr: tree is creating wealth, and chopping it down is extracting perhaps in simplistic sense? I'm not exactly averse to extracting... but think that power lies in creating (if successful). Thinking : growth shd lead to becoming master and creating wealth, no matter where it starts ? | [16:50] |
| shrysr: | well ask as in > related to what you just said re all possible choices. I used to think -- i can 'learn' anything..maybe even to the point of getting 'good' (esp with decent teacher)... but later realised there is a difference between good and becoming 'great' or awesome or whatever, and that cannot happen in all that you pick up. But how do you know for sure? I say - i wanna be master. maybe achieve it - | [16:51] |
| shrysr: | to some degree of success and even sustain that out of sheer will or desire, but what if then i realise I am suited to be under a master? Or what if I choose to master --- Fail. and then switch to being under a master for subsistence? From what i gather - most businesses fail.. we just don't hear abt em? | [16:51] |
| shrysr: | the original question was.... best i can be > does it also translate to being born with brain quantity X and that you cannot ... well.. become more? become other? | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | most startups fail, certainly; it's not a choice in the sense that you know already the outcome | [16:54] |
| shrysr: | well not only brain quantity X... whatever 'X' | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: the best *version of yourself*, that's the "best you can be"; it's not that much about quantity of something but rather about... substance in the sense of what you are made (as in from nature if you want) to be, if that makes sense to you. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, the advantage of striving to fulfill exactly what you are made for is that you'll be better at that than at anything else; but *all* of this is really by comparison to yourself (potential versions, let's say), not to someone else. | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | this is why I was saying that it's not about becoming me or someone else - I'll never try to make someone else some version of me because they will be way better as their true selves | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | it is true however that it's not all that easy or clear or straightforward to figure out what one really is. | [17:00] |
| shrysr: | guess was hoping massa had working crystal ball..seeing stone to lend. lol. | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | re being a master though, I'd say it's one of those things - when/if you are one, you'll know; before that you can of course bang your head on "I want to be one" and shout loudly as to why it doesn't work, plenty do precisely that. | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: lol; the more you understand, the better you see, that's about as much as can be said about it; everyone has "crystal ball" - just some got to clear it more and some got to make it even foggier than the thikest fog. | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: my pointing out to you the "make money from" was a bit of mirror-holding and pointing out what you didn't seem to have noticed. | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: re eulora and making money from it: on one hand there is the game itself in which you are effectively making money to the extent that you understand the game better than the other players | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | btw, atm eulora is basically waiting for a whole load of stuff to be done before things really get moving again. | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: at any rate, in game as a character, you are competing at all times with the other players | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: that however is just one approach (and not that easy either) | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | the open options in middle/long term are building up useful things for the player base | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes has built for example the auction bot precisely for and from eulora needs; that it found afterwards further use is not unusual,either. | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: the big current opening and the one that I thought might be interesting to you is re graphics: not necessarily making the art yourself but rather building up and running the needed infrastructure for the art market | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it's not something that earns you bread *today*, sure. | [17:15] |
| shrysr: | well tbh, i've thought of it before, but not while writing the post. I believe I had concluded that 'moving fwd' wd just.. clarify master/under-a-master and that there are many presssing issues to solve first. I viewed it anyway as a process of 'becoming'. A few years ago - i wd have probably said Master hands down. Source v/s extraction i think is still.. well easier to figure and perhaps could possible | [17:19] |
| shrysr: | even co-exist? As i've grown i've seen .... being master also means....well sacrifices of as minimum energy+time.. no time to stand and watch and just 'feel'.... need to take far more 'ugly' decisions... you run the business, but are unlikely to become an expert, and may have to pretend being so. i guess being master has become less appealing over time, but there is a yearning to be free of cruel masters | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: for that matter, the stock warrants are something you need to understand in order to understand a big part of how money-from-eulora (other than directly as char in the game) tends to work | [17:19] |
| shrysr: | as well, and not even attempting to become master seems ... like giving something up, or taking the easier path. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: you are confusing master with ...employers | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: perhaps it's clearer put whether you can stand to be fully free or not; links back to the causes and purposes, remember? | [17:21] |
| shrysr: | remember but not really linking. Why is a master different from an employer? You have to essentially follow commands given? | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | eh, that's the superficial, not the essential, lol | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing, the commitment on both sides is way bigger; for the other, you can't really have two masters at the same time, ever (if you "do" then it's more likely you are just working 2 jobs) | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | to an employer you obey within a single context | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | and even there, well.."obey" ; as in you sort of maybe do what they asked IF you think it's ok | [17:29] |
| shrysr: | okay ! Ha. So you mean master as in... what you are to me. and employer is the... well, not master.... not even close. | [17:29] |
| shrysr: | ok | [17:29] |
| shrysr: | right. | [17:30] |
| shrysr: | ok | [17:30] |
| shrysr: | i see. | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | well, I suppose you are more my knight rather than my slave | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | as in feudal relationships if you want | [17:30] |
| shrysr: | lol thanks | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: what? lol | [17:30] |
| shrysr: | well lol i'll take knight over slave any day... i guess. | [17:31] |
| shrysr: | if i could. | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | dunno, some prefer to be slaves, you know? | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | as you said earlier: it frees up some resources | [17:31] |
| shrysr: | has to bbl or will get fucked.x01 | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | shrysr: are you even familiar with what the feudal code was about? | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | go then | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/20/ossasepia-logs-for-12-Sep-2019#1002314 - apparently he can't though. | [17:37] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2019-09-12 15:32:40 diana_coman: asciilifeform: presumably he can talk for himself though? and ask for the help he needs re work, if he's here? | [17:37] |
| lobbes: | he's not even in here anymore I see | [17:42] |
| lobbes: | incidentally, it is been harder to keep up with #o logs lately than #t logs ! | [17:43] |
| diana_coman: | lobbes: metoo! | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [17:44] |
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