| mp_en_viaje: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/09/eulora-logs-for-09-Mar-2020#1002514 << word. | [11:55] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-09 11:21:13 diana_coman: mp_en_viaje: re the easy question, meanwhile I got at least some idea as to what might be involved/the general steps; and as a result, I have this niggling thought that it's possible that either I don't quite get what you have in mind or you don't quite get what cs/cal3d can actually do (and esp what they can't /don't do); so I'd rather discuss this to make sure we are in sync ... | [11:55] |
| mp_en_viaje: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/09/eulora-logs-for-09-Mar-2020#1002522 << so basically there's a missing part, there's no straightforward manner of going from "now take your clothes off" to "nude.jpg", and certainly not one that gimp can use. | [11:56] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-09 11:36:10 diana_coman: ... approximate the desired surface); for both steps, there are various constraints wrt to what makes for a "good mesh" - and good there means that rendering systems ala cs/cal3d will not choke on it, not that "it looks great" or anything of the sort. | [11:56] |
| mp_en_viaje: | gimp can display nude.jpg, if it exists already ; eulora can display a ~pre-rasterized~ model, if it was pre-rasterized already. | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: on the bright side, *meanwhile*, I might have found something that might just about...work! | [11:57] |
| mp_en_viaje: | aha! | [11:57] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i was about to say, this space is long but narrow, there's just not that many possible approaches | [11:57] |
| diana_coman: | having looked at a mountain of ~everything (and most of it not at all appealing), in the end it seems I have unearthed what I'd call just about the simplest thing possible (some ~1990 vintage if I got that straight, possibly earlier) and I have just tested this morning a polygonization of an implicit surface | [11:59] |
| mp_en_viaje: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/09/eulora-logs-for-09-Mar-2020#1002523 <, right! here's on sheer display my general idea of useful contribution : cutting through all that pile of alf-like crap to make a working summary of a field. | [11:59] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-09 11:37:40 diana_coman: on the bright side, the real options there seem relatively limited in that despite a huge pile of papers and algorithms, there are only a few core things that seem to work in practice; on the less bright side, it's precisely this "meshing" that is considered/acknowledge as "the hardest part". | [11:59] |
| mp_en_viaje: | diana_coman, and did it yield ? | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | with a bit of help from, ahem, awk to spit the cal3d mesh format, I can at least say that I got the resulting thing at least visible in cs+cal3d so I am hopeful that ...yes, it can be made to work, hopefully! | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | so far I don't have the texture for it and this might be a bit of further trouble in that I have to produce the full texture possibly (or otherwise CS will tile it stupidly) | [12:01] |
| mp_en_viaje: | lol | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | the texture part is not yet fully clear, I'd still need to dig into it | [12:01] |
| mp_en_viaje: | diana_coman, alrighty, am i looking forward to an illustrated article ? | [12:01] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i find those easiest to read | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | but I was quite relieved to have actually something working that goes from an implicit surface (so we can bloody well send an equation as all "here's graphics" ffs) to the rasterized list of vertices + triangles and moreover cs+cal3d eats it up without complaint | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | basically so far it's better than cs's own "generators" huh | [12:02] |
| mp_en_viaje: | this indeed is a first. | [12:02] |
| mp_en_viaje: | it's rather like moving ancient dragon bones in their articulations, the sort of thing computers rarely see. | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | part and parcel of this latest round of exploration of the domain, I think I have figured out as well WHY do they have that many bones and whatnots and no, it's nothing to do with rope models or whatever | [12:03] |
| mp_en_viaje: | oh ? | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, it's most likely because all the "modeling tools" ala blender/studio max/whatevers use some algorithms to extract those and yeah, there aren't that many | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | marching cubes (+variations) generally and that has exactly such known effect | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | now, even my tiny ancient dragon bones (because yes, it feels exactly like that) produce quite a list of vertices + triangles but still ...fewer! | [12:05] |
| diana_coman: | re article with illustrations, I was hoping to get some sort of texture on it too at first and/or to put some meshes on a "skeleton" - so far since it's literally this morning I got this going, it was just one torus and then (to make sure I'm not dreaming here), a sort of blob | [12:07] |
| mp_en_viaje: | this is the sort of thing that makes one's effort in lifting the lid justifiable. | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | but yeah, I took already some screenshots :D | [12:07] |
| mp_en_viaje: | that's fine, put a texture on. not everything's gotta be nude now | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | btw, the code is < 1k loc including some alternative that I'm not even using (because it has some trouble and I haven't sorted it out + it's unclear we even need to sort it out really) | [12:08] |
| mp_en_viaje: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/03/09/eulora-logs-for-09-Mar-2020#1002530 << this is absolutely so. | [12:09] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-03-09 16:20:11 diana_coman: on further reflection, it seems to me that the meshing+tesselation is pretty much the only real option; because building it out of existing primitives doesn't really deliver much benefit - the little that might be won on no-need-to-mesh-or-tesselate is lost anyway on trouble at joints/connecting points for the most obvious bit (likely not even the only one). | [12:09] |
| mp_en_viaje: | diana_coman, ha! perfect. | [12:09] |
| diana_coman: | I guess if I keep reading papers at this rate, I'll be able to tell the year of a paper by its content - there are some differences that start popping out already. | [12:09] |
| mp_en_viaje: | it's usually how this goes. in archeology we call it "cultures", but basically when idiots come up with religious nonsense it goes like empress' hairdues, by fashion. | [12:10] |
| diana_coman: | apparently in science-fashion like in cloths-fashion I stick to my fashion until the world comes back to it (or not, for all the difference it makes otherwise) | [12:11] |
| mp_en_viaje: | lol | [12:12] |
| mp_en_viaje: | vintage ftw. anyways, good. | [12:12] |
| diana_coman: | so I gather we are in sync here and it's ok to proceed with this aka work to put it for test/example on a skeleton + a texture and then we see further | [12:14] |
| diana_coman: | in principle I should probably write up the whole pile of papers too but I admit I'm so meh on them that I can't even say I'll do it in more detail than "here's the one working thing out of ~everything", hm. | [12:15] |
| mp_en_viaje: | yep. | [12:16] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i don't expect you have to by-name review the celenterates. | [12:16] |
| mp_en_viaje: | if they were worthy of a name we'd know it like we know each other's. | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | all right; I shall therefore play with a few more implicit surfaces, heh. | [12:17] |
| mp_en_viaje: | cool | [12:47] |
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