| diana_coman: | foxy also sees quite often this sort of phantom-tables that don't go boo; kind of vanish at some point/relogin though | [03:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm | [03:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | soo, the results of my 1k tool run : | [08:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | inputs : bundle at q 146, bv100 9352, bp q 14. | [08:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 58 * 1.46 * 1.6 + 470 * 1.46 * 1.88 + 8824 * 1.46 * 2.09 + 9352 * .14 | [08:27] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 58 * 1.46 * 1.6 + 470 * 1.46 * 1.88 + 8824 * 1.46 * 2.09 + 9352 * .14 = 29660.377599999993 | [08:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's a mpqa price of 29660 per click, of which 1309.28 for the bp, and a qabv of 13784.82 per click. | [08:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | out came tools d 5264, which means every click carried 8520.82 overcraft (no decay, table craft). | [08:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | notwithstanding i did 1k clicks, i got no pops :( | [08:29] |
| shinohai: | :/ | [08:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | i obtained in total 1191 tools (so that's +19.1\% over base), for a bv of 6269424 ; plus 3060 tink sentiments, q 57, qabv 1744200 and 407382 feelings(es) q 57, qabv 2322077.4. | [08:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | so overall that's 2322077.4+1744200+ 6269424 = 10335701.4 bv returns from the craft, and as per above 13784820 costs, resulting in a net loss of 3449118.6 ECu or 25\%. | [08:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | in market terms, the cost was however 29660000 ; the income : if i count the tools at 250\% (because they're really very low d) that's 15673560 ; if i count the sentiments also at 250\% that's another 4360500 ; and if i count the feelings at 1.5 that's yet another 3483116.1 | [08:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | so in total 15673560+4360500+3483116.1 = 23517176.1 meaning a 6142823.9 ECu loss in priced-to-market terms, or 20.7\%. | [08:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | fiddles with the variables a little | [08:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 6269424 * 2.7 + 1744200 * 3 + 407382 * 1.5 | [08:36] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 6269424 * 2.7 + 1744200 * 3 + 407382 * 1.5 = 2.27711178E7 | [08:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | meh! | [08:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 6269424 * 2.85 + 1744200 * 3.5 + 407382 * 1.5 | [08:36] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 6269424 * 2.85 + 1744200 * 3.5 + 407382 * 1.5 = 2.4583631400000002E7 | [08:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 6269424 * 2.85 + 1744200 * 5 + 407382 * 2 | [08:36] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 6269424 * 2.85 + 1744200 * 5 + 407382 * 2 = 2.7403622400000002E7 | [08:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | crazy shit. | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 6269424 * 2.9 + 1744200 * 5 + 407382 * 2 | [08:37] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 6269424 * 2.9 + 1744200 * 5 + 407382 * 2 = 2.7717093599999998E7 | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 6269424 * 2.9 + 1744200 * 6 + 407382 * 2 | [08:37] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 6269424 * 2.9 + 1744200 * 6 + 407382 * 2 = 2.9461293599999998E7 | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | so diana_coman : i think going forward the ~base~ premium of 1k bv numina will hafta be 600\% ; and of 10bv numina 200. | [08:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think this craft is a good datapoint because a) many clicks b) high oc and c) came so close to breakeven in qabv terms ; more typical is a 60\% loss than a 25\% loss. | [08:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | lemme know what you think. | [08:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | is totally loving this, like 1800s high diplomacy, memoranda and shit being passed back an' forth between the capitals of the great powers. | [08:39] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, trouble is that sentiments at q57 are kind of meh to start with (and why I have trouble getting enough sentiments - as I need not only high oc but also relatively high output) | [08:51] |
| diana_coman: | I can see your calculations there and I do get it that 600\% makes sense for you to sell the sentiments at but at this stage and with the output I got from all those cons runs even with sentiments above 120q it just doesn't make sense for me to pay that | [08:53] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I should run the numbers to see what markup they would carry when made via lapidary - the issue there atm being of course that ...no woa whatsoever | [08:54] |
| diana_coman: | (I would MUCH rather make them via lapidary anyway) | [08:54] |
| diana_coman: | as for feelings - I could pay 200\% but only for q above 200 I'd say | [08:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | i know right! | [09:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | but hey, it's data, so that's a basis. | [09:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman the problem with high q output sentiments is that they're hard to get - in order for q 200 sentiments i must get BOTH output q 200 AND overcraft. | [09:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | easiest way to get overcraft is to use low q bp, like here. | [09:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | i used q 14 bp. especially in the case of tools this seems to me an exceedingly wise strategy, because a) the bp is the constraint ; b) tools are desperately needed to get materials and c) this produces i think the maximal tool d per bp point, which i think should be the criteria. | [09:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | however, obviously if you use low q bp, you fuck the output quality. | [09:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | now in order to get q 200+ numina out of this run, i'd have had to BOTH a) use high q bps - which is wasteful (because each q point in ONE q100 bp could have been ONE WHOLE bp q 1, and it still makes a tool, which isn't 1\% of the d of the tool made with q 100 bp) AND use EVEN HIGHER q bundles. like i dunno, if i used say q 100 bps i'd have needed... q 300+ bundles i guess ? | [09:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh wait... hm! i... i COULD use mega-high q grass, which goes in by itself, and which i can get, in cft oc runs. which will result in uber high q sentiments etc. | [09:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman im mining grass now ; will do a large attempt of this and let you know how it comes out k ? | [09:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | preliminary guessing shows i should be over q400. | [09:14] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu> diana_coman the problem with high q output sentiments is that they're hard to get - in order for q 200 sentiments i must get BOTH output q 200 AND overcraft. <- yeah, I totally know this | [09:14] |
| diana_coman: | reason why I've been getting so few basically: kind of hard to do huge runs with output >q200 AND overcraft large enough | [09:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | myeah. | [09:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | interesting how we keep resolving issues only to run into more issues. | [09:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | but anyway - all this did result into a working theory, so standby for next week ima have data on the alternative approach for you. | [09:16] |
| diana_coman: | trouble with the grass I can tell you upfront: you'll get feelings, but no sentiments | [09:16] |
| diana_coman: | there is that also | [09:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | i did sell you some q 400+ sentiments right ? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | or at least I NEVER got sentiments from making cft no matter how high the oc | [09:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | there's no other way i got those i realise now | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | what, you got them from cft? | [09:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | i mean how the fuck would i have. | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | some *other* oc thing? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | such as goop? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | or dunno what else | [09:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | i didn't run oc goop in a year now. | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | shards? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | slag? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | shaped slag? | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | shaped slag is great for that from what I saw | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | high enough bv to start with | [09:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | shards, if that's how i got it, i can also do, same principle. shaped slag i made q 150. | [09:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | HARD to make ss > 200, because io. | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, funnily enough it's precisely at io that my line breaks too: I can make relatively high q ibs, I can use that to increase q on ltf but then for io ugh | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | well, one can get sentiments from io too I suppose | [09:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah, and high q wm shouldn't be too hard for us. just get smalls with sticks and whack them with high q cft x7 | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | speaking of which: do you have any ppb for sale? | [09:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think so, remind me to check when in town | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | will do ; just checking now: I have ~1k wm at 267q - not huge, but decent | [09:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | nah listen - get a stick small of wm. add q200 cft x7, that'll spit out wm AT LEAST 500, if not 600. | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, ONE | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | that extra 300 points means another 2.5k bv added | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | ONE wm | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | so one, what. | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | well, need 1k sticks to get 1k shrooms, that's all | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | and actually might be two. | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | let me tell you that I actually have a few wm at 700+ q, sure | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | but like really: 2-3 | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman yes, but the value stays there. each click is a sentiment. | [09:22] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, IF we don't run out of cs before that | [09:22] |
| diana_coman: | haven't heard of any new cs bps in ages | [09:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | srsly. we gotta do some mcguyver looting | [09:22] |
| diana_coman: | toothpaste at least I got a few, but cs none | [09:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | i did a bunch but only got flagons. | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | and flagons, yeah | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | even q700+ flagon bps | [09:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | those aren't bad... i got some very high leather... | [09:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | btw you gonna update your bp thing with the qs ? | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | not bad but ...still not cs, lol | [09:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | qf* | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | qf? | [09:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | flagon | [09:24] |
| diana_coman: | ah, it's still not in there, is it; and no homunculus and bits and bobs, ugh | [09:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [09:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh i see what you mean, the cft bv being 180 and the slag bv being 677, much better chances to ge tsentiments the latter than the former huh. | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | yeah | [09:27] |
| diana_coman: | especially as you go up in quality | [09:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, we'll see i guess. i now have two things to try - cft and slag. | [09:27] |
| diana_coman: | because think of it this way: to get 1 sentiment at 100q you need to have hit some loot of 10k but to get 1 sentiment at 200q you need to have hit loot of 20k | [09:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | and i got 5mn in tools to try it with and enough cft, so we'll get something here. | [09:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman people have got sizables and remarkables with a ~200 ecu tool hit. if i loot 10mn with a 400 qpoints oc, none of this applies. | [09:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | the whole point is minis and pops. | [09:28] |
| diana_coman: | oh, sure; I just forgot that ahem, sizableS was actually sizable and people was actually only one not for lack of trying otherwise, but yeah, it IS possible | [09:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | fair is fair : my 1k tool run earlier is not so far behind a 1k cs run, is it ? | [09:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | now, in an 1k cs run would you be shocked if you got a remark ? | [09:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | every time i click a cft craft with a 400 qpoc i am doing the equivalent of say 4 tool hits, or who knows how many bh hits. | [09:31] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I can see some point there | [09:31] |
| diana_coman: | and no, I would rather expect at least 1 remark out of 1k cs run, true | [09:32] |
| diana_coman: | so not shocked, no | [09:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | by now the vocabulary is getting pretty endless lol, qpoc and mpqa and stuff. hanbot were you maintaining the lingo thing on wiki ? | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman now if this remark is 1mn, then that could be i dunno, 500 sentiments q 200 ? | [09:33] |
| diana_coman: | which is not even enough for 1 single cons click at full oc ... | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | but it is a lot more than what we currently have lol. | [09:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think perhaps the one issue that unearths itself from all this discussion is the following human error : | [09:34] |
| diana_coman: | well, I ALREADY did 5 app tink with full oc sentiments above 100q | [09:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | we spent a long, long time with "trash bps", which is to say on the old loot model where yo ugot tons of bps from oc, so an expectation built in heads that the relative contribution of bp in the total bundle value should be high, as high as i dunno, 10\% or thereabouts. | [09:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | however, the situation changed : instead of straight bps from oc, now you loot numina, which get turned into bps through a complicated and expensive process | [09:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i'm not sure the player mind adjusted to this, and so we don't correctly mix the bps into the crafts. we should maybe aim for 1\%, or maybe even less. | [09:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm realising all this because of the good results of a craft i'd have never before done - q 14 bp and q 146 bundle. | [09:36] |
| diana_coman: | hm, good results being that 20\% loss or what was it? | [09:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | point in case : i used a 15mn run to produce 1.5mn worth of sentiments. | [09:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | thatr's some pretty masive downregulation right there. | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | I thought a skilled crafter with carefully adjusted bp and bundle q basically operates at a gain by increasing value and I think that was mainly the focus | [09:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman well apparently they don't because bps are MORE expensive than the increase. | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | + the issue that there is no market for all the shitty 1st level numina floating around and blocking everyone's storage | [09:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | let me model this : | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | is taking notes | [09:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | bp q x, and bu q y results in product qz. | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | whereas bp q 2x, and bu q y results in product qz'. | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | now let bp premium be 1000\% and product premium be 200\%. | [09:38] |
| diana_coman: | right; what's the link between z and z', is that known? | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman it is known it is dampened, ie, that z'/z < 2 in this example. | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | now : that extra x adds a 1000\% of premium to the input ; that z' ads a dz of 200\% premium to the output. | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | it can be that you spend 10 ecu more bp bv, ie 100 ecu total | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | and get 15 ecu more product bv, ie 30 ecu total. | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | so you made a loss! | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | not in absolute terms, but in relative terms, as compared to what you could have made if you used lower q bps | [09:40] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I think that z'/z is a very interesting part really because there is in there actually the crafter's skill too and so there might be a point after which z'/z >2 | [09:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | i've never seen this. | [09:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | a doubling of bp q never in my experience resulted in a doubling of the output quality, ever. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | well, you are the highest q crafter so I guess that means that at least for now there is no such thing available, ok | [09:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i mean, with rough numbers : q 50 bp and q 150 bundle gives me about q 200 output. | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | q 100 bp and q 150 bundle gives 250ish. | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's 100\% to 25\% you realise. | [09:42] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, I'm digesting a bit the thing | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | now maybe rounding is at issue cuz it's really say 180 and 270 or w/e. but doubling ? from 180 to 360 ? never in carnation. | [09:43] |
| diana_coman: | basically the current markup on bps makes them such a significant part of input that it drowns very quickly their contribution to increasing quality of output making it instead more profitable to use them to oc | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | and in turn to make numina that would theoretically at least help make more bps and (again theoretically) perhaps bring the markup down on bps | [09:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | something like that. | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | kind of self-adjusting thing ? | [09:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | it would seem it is ; and it would seem it's adjusting us right in the ass | [09:49] |
| diana_coman: | aha, eulora-style | [09:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | because we use too much bp bv as compared to the numina bv we extract | [09:49] |
| diana_coman: | still has piles and piles of LOW Q bps | [09:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | see we gotta balance this new lever or else we'll extinguish bps ALTOGETHER | [09:49] |
| diana_coman: | sounds quite likely really, what with the lack of wos and lack of woa too and all this shit on top | [09:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha! | [09:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | see, obviously at time t there's a total bv of bps, 1mn, 100mn, whatever it is. | [09:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | where does it come from ? some from bod, some from books. but some from numina. if we don't produce at least 1 ecu of numina for each ecu of burned bps, we are sure to lose | [09:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | because yes bod/books provide some help, but some bps are not used | [09:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | and moreover, not all crafts are oc, so there's lossage constantly. | [09:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | suddenly oc is like a patriotic duty or some shit. | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | in principle there is some in-built oc in cons too iirc, but myeah, that's clearly not the main stuff | [09:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | no, actually, there's some built-in... LOSS! think . you make your bundle, out of bod and book and numina, yes ? and a portion of this comes out as maculature. that won't be bps. | [09:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | well technically it is bps but you won't be crafting anything with them | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | I guess it's a pity that there are also quite a lot of bps that are not used, but not even sure that there is enough crafting/inputs going around for what bps are used anyway | [09:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | now suppose your bod was q 200 and your book q 200 and your numina q 400. the maculature you get actually bites a litte out of the numina. | [09:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | actually lemme do the math here. | [09:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | so take a neophyte. 1 bod 1 book and 45 maculature out iirc ? | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | yeah | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 29170 * 2 + 88462 * 2 + 9999*10*4 | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | 1 token and 9999 feelings | [09:56] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 29170 * 2 + 88462 * 2 + 9999*10*4 = 635224 | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 29170 * 2 + 88462 * 2 | [09:56] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 29170 * 2 + 88462 * 2 = 235264 | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 45 * 1727 | [09:56] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 45 * 1727 = 77715 | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok so the numina is 400k out of 635k ; and the maculature is 77.7k q 100, so if it comes out q 330 ? guess what! | [09:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 235264 - 77715*3.3 | [09:57] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 235264 - 77715*3.3 = -21195.5 | [09:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | ate 20k of numina. | [09:57] |
| diana_coman: | myeah | [09:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | obviously these values float, for a q330 maculature output with that bundle you'd need high q cons. but we kinda have high q cons. | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | well, they ARE bps themselves though | [09:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes. | [09:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh that even more ocmplicates things huh | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | and funnily enough I just realise I've been asking for low q cons for pretty much all the time, lol | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | but there have been mainly high q ones going around | [09:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | i thought last i sold you wanted high. | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | no? | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | I wanted APPRENTICE | [09:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | but now high q | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | not high q | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | apprentice or whatever is next level | [09:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | of course a large factor in all this being that since we're running out of wos, we're running out of maculature processing capacity, which prolly colors the whole approach. | [10:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, those 45 maculature of high q produce lbn like half a stack. | [10:00] |
| diana_coman: | I have loads of maculature that I am NOT USING because saving my poor wos | [10:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | me too. | [10:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman i did do a couple noob clicks which is how i got the q 100ish cons. however the problem is noobs seem to only loot the shitty ones. | [10:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, no gumbo. | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | hm, next total noob I see I get to do some cons clicks, maybe they loot the "shitty cft bp" | [10:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | for oc ? yeah. | [10:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | esp cft is very tolerant of low q, who cares there, you can adjust in claim. | [10:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, maybe that guy that recently got my grass shows up again you can have him do a click | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, trouble is that so far as I said: on average 2 cft bps/ click,it's madness | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | even shinohai's clicks | [10:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm. | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, maybe total noob will make a difference, no idea | [10:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | try a total total noob though. or have you ? | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | no, not yet, for lack of noobs; will do if the guy gets back | [10:03] |
| shinohai: | I tried! >.> | [10:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai hey, we're mostly figuring this shit out, it's pretty confusing. | [10:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | counts the discussion, 3.6k words. eulora economy - the novel. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | well, confusions are always quite...lengthy :p | [10:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | there is that. | [10:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | so now i'm leaving the bot to mine, and i'm going to go and ... play eulora, remotely. by... thinking. | [10:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | this i must confess is a lot more enjoyable gameplay than sitting and clicking like a fucking chicken. moba psssshhh. | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | that might be why it's so hard to get people in game - no clicking? thinking? even when AWAY from game? | [10:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh. | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman of course the other angle here is, if indeed bod/books go for 200 and numina for 400, then isn't it better business to run cons without numina at all ? | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | obviously, it's bad for the environment - but great for you! | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | and therefore... is there a disaster of commons baked in here ? | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | wait, what is that bod/books go for 200? | [10:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | i dunno random numbers i pulled out of ass for example | [10:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | what do you sell them for ? | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | 443\% | [10:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | o you are ? and books ? | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, as I said earlier: currently numina at 400\% doesn't quite make sense for cons clicking at least not for me | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | dunno if it would make sense for some total noob, perhaps we will see | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | that is for the books | [10:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | and bod ? | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | bod I have listed at 372\% but tbh I'm not much of a cook | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | it was mainly because nobody else was selling them at that time | [10:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | tbh t2 numina around 4-500 seems logical on this basis. | [10:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | im curious what the grass craft shows now. | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | and slightly updated cookbook: http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/Questionable-Flagon.html | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | as well as http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/Homunculus.html | [10:58] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: Homunculus(h) (at www.dianacoman.com) | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | meanwhile foxy's killing about 90 ltf in bundles 195q out of which she is getting q60 io; so far 10 io -> 10 sentiments + 2.7k feelings | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | not much data to go on but clearly if one is after many sentiments they are not *that* hard to get as long as we still have low q bps; obv quality is a different beast | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | !~calc 89*5439*(1.95+0.1*0.13) | [11:03] |
| jhvh1: | diana_coman: 89*5439*(1.95+0.1*0.13) = 950231.3729999999 | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | kind of half a stick each click, lol | [11:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah q 60 not so much better than my 56 | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | 57* | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman one thing that jumps out is that your split is 10 / 2.7k whereas my split was 3060 / 407k | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 10*100/2700 | [11:20] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 10*100/2700 = 0.37037037037037035 | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 3060 * 100 / 407386 | [11:20] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 3060 * 100 / 407386 = 0.7511303775780219 | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | 370 period lmao | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman so it'd seem i get a much sentiment-heavier mix than you do. | [11:21] |
| hanbot: | mircea_popescu> by now the vocabulary is getting pretty endless lol, qpoc and mpqa and stuff. hanbot were you maintaining the lingo thing on wiki ? << thanks for the reminder. section has been meatily updated. | [11:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | o nice. | [11:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | ahh there's little better than going out with a pile of 1k tools and watching the bot slowly grind them down | [12:44] |
| diana_coman: | !~calc 82*100/23700 | [14:34] |
| jhvh1: | diana_coman: 82*100/23700 = 0.3459915611814346 | [14:34] |
| diana_coman: | so lol, indeed better mircea_popescu , apparently for the whole run it went as "high" as 0.346 | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | so now I even get a data-reason to keep away from oc, lmao | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | or rather: another reason | [14:35] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, run is done, got absolutely NO additional io and otherwise 82 sentiments, 23700 feelings | [14:36] |
| diana_coman: | at q60 so quite worthless | [14:36] |
| diana_coman: | !~calc 84*5439*(1.95+0.1*0.13) - 84*5439*0.6 - 82*1000*0.6 - 23700*0.6*10 | [14:38] |
| jhvh1: | diana_coman: 84*5439*(1.95+0.1*0.13) - 84*5439*0.6 - 82*1000*0.6 - 23700*0.6*10 = 431321.988 | [14:38] |
| diana_coman: | or how Foxy blew almost half a million base-value, not even considering markups and the like | [14:38] |
| diana_coman: | it would seem that sentiments might well be worth the hefty markup after all - at least untill woa perhaps unlocks a maybe-cheaper way of getting them - but I would still say I need q200 as a minimum at this time | [14:40] |
| danielpbarron: | loves how woa "doesn't exist" | [14:43] |
| danielpbarron: | perhaps that's actually true at the moment since my eulora comp finally died | [14:44] |
| shinohai: | D: | [14:45] |
| danielpbarron: | rip iscah | [14:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman im not even sure woa would be cheaper. i mean just the woa itself is fucking expensive. | [14:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron do you have a pile of bps ? | [14:47] |
| danielpbarron: | yeah | [14:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | selling ? | [14:47] |
| danielpbarron: | i'm selling the waters yeah | [14:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah how much ? | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | danielpbarron, you did not seem to be playing anymore, so yeah, did not count your character at all | [14:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | though he was one of the richer players, who knows what he has in his warehouses | [14:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 215393 / 2.6 / 12255 | [14:48] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 215393 / 2.6 / 12255 = 6.759972381759407 | [14:48] |
| shinohai: | danielpbarron: I *do* want your magikal bag (or whatever it's called) but have no idea what such an item would sell for. | [14:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | 676\% he says diana_coman :D | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, I know | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | initially I bought a few and ran some numbers and it wasn't worth it | [14:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'd say t2 numina are definitely getting riveted in place ~500 | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | but I'll run the numbers again now as my lapidary skill has increased, let's see | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | not holding my breath though | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | danielpbarron, what would you sell a wos (screens) for? | [14:50] |
| danielpbarron: | [14:51] | |
| danielpbarron: | http://danielpbarron.com/eulora-shop/#woa | [14:51] |
| diana_coman: | aha, so doesn't exist either, lol | [14:52] |
| danielpbarron: | i can't make wos so yeah, doesn't exist | [14:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think we're flat out of bps for it ya | [14:53] |
| diana_coman: | nobody can, yes | [14:53] |
| danielpbarron: | shinohai, the bag is yours for 1337 btc | [14:53] |
| diana_coman: | well, I'm quite sure Birdman has a stash of wos too , but he doesn't exist either, lol | [14:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | o ya danielpbarron did birdman quit ? | [14:54] |
| shinohai: | lolz | [14:54] |
| danielpbarron: | hm, i'll give him a txt | [14:54] |
| shinohai: | looks like no bag4me | [14:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai costs a lot to be holding the bag! | [14:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | also has one but dun wanna sell it. | [14:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc 1337 * 770 | [14:55] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: 1337 * 770 = 1029490 | [14:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | a million dollah! | [14:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai mod6 prolly also has one. | [14:56] |
| danielpbarron: | i think birdman also suffers from the broken computer problem. should be solving this soon. i'm planning on building a bunch of eulora-capable machines | [14:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | makes sense. | [14:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman a large part of the problem being that without wos no bouq numina no cons clicking | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | yes; hence my asking about wos | [15:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | total ord drought also | [15:28] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, with 676\% on woa the t2 numina out of lapidary seem to be just as expensive really; it's a bit tricky to price them exactly without a proper run again, but basically on what very limited data I have it would end up pretty much as 480\% | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | with the woa at 676\% I mean | [15:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh\ | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | on the bright side this would suggest that lower markup on woa might actually make numina from lapidary cheaper than from oc though | [15:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | what sort of q would that be ? | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | well, it depends on what l1 numina I feed it too really | [15:31] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and of course on q of toils (of which I have rather high q) | [15:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron i'll take your woa, how many you got ? | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | so I guess that's the thing really: with lapidary at same markup I can actually get higher q | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | so possibly oc for low q, but lapidary for high q | [15:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman i dun think so ; oc i estimate around 400 | [15:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think rather, lapidary for mites ; oc for everything else | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | I thought you pushed it earlier ~500 | [15:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm ? | [15:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | i say : if i oc grass i expect numina q ~400 | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | i dun imagine you can get that from the wheel ? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | did I read this wrongly -> http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html#t19:49:24 | [15:35] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: #Eulora log for Sunday, 2016-12-04 (at logs.minigame.bz) | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | oh, you meant it 500q ? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | hmmm lemme see what toils I have and what I could get with his 260q woa | [15:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | nope, that was about \% | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | so then: 500\%? | [15:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm confused. | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | actually I think I would get 350q without a lot of trouble (at least where I have toils + l1 numina ) | [15:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | on what q numina ? | [15:38] |
| diana_coman: | 200q numina | [15:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is pretty cool then | [15:40] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: would you pay 480\% on l2 numina at 350q? | [15:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | for mites ? yes. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | only for mites? | [15:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty much, yeah. | [15:41] |
| diana_coman: | hm; do you have dusts 200q or higher? | [15:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think so. i'll check it when i ntown. | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | getting back to that point that got both of us confused on the 500/400: you say the l2 numina from oc seem to be available for about 500\% markup, right>? | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | and you expect to get them at about 400q | [15:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah | [15:43] |
| diana_coman: | so then logically speaking the alternatives I have for l2 numina seem to be 500\% directly from you or otherwise 484\% with daniel's woa from my lapidary | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | 480\% | [15:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | no cuz i'll buy his so you can't do that | [15:44] |
| diana_coman: | lol, then I'm off mining/programming whatever | [15:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | well mites have no alternative pathway | [15:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | everything else does, via oc. | [15:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | it'd be pretty silly to burn the woa on other stuff neh ? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | so are you going to lapidary or what? | [15:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm just making the point! | [15:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you burn woa to make ladels wtf do we do for mites ? run out of cons ? | [15:45] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, sometimes I hate being even slightly rational, myeah | [15:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol! | [15:46] |
| diana_coman: | and I kept reading wos instead of woa for some reason so I was getting totally confused there, lol | [15:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | we're already short cooking consen | [15:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | alternatively if we do loot some woa bps then this can slacken a little. | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | fat chance of that atm | [15:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | why ? | [15:48] |
| diana_coman: | NO GUMBO APP CONS | [15:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | well yes but if i get to click some bouq cons we might get some | [15:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | and once that happens maybe the woa line relaxes. | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | so what's holding it back now? lack of mites? | [15:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | yup | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | hm looking in my storage I have dusts for , ugh, 9 lapidary clicks aka 9*21 = 189 mites, lol! | [15:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | 20\% of what's needed. | [15:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | im pretty sure i also have some odds and ends | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | well, I DO have another 500 mites all ready and well trained to jump high and all that | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | but that's the end of it ; and dusts are from killing wos so not exactly getting more in a hurry now | [15:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol you have mites ? what q ? | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | about 300q | [15:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | nb. | [15:54] |
| diana_coman: | but honestly atm the whole bp thing seems to me to be a bit mad with the oc and all that, so maybe it's worth sorting out the cons clicks first if at all possible and see what that brings; so I think I'll just take a break otherwise, maybe only if some total noob appears I can get them to do a few clicks | [15:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | well ok, but a) are you selling those mites and b) who's gonna do the toil clicks, me ? | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | I'll sell the mites, together with what I get from lapidary - if I get any woa that is, lol | [15:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | aite once danielpbarron shows up ima go to town and see what dusts i got | [15:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | what else did you want me to check ? | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | since you are happy with the 480\% and you want all the mites, I'm fine to buy the stuff , do the lapidary run and sell you the mites | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | ppb | [15:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | aite. | [15:59] |
Comments feed: RSS 2.0