#ossasepia Logs for 18 Feb 2020

April 21st, 2020 by Diana Coman
whaack: diana_coman: EOD Report: G: I produced my article for today in a timely manner. WTI: Continue to focus on creating well structured outlines + not spinning while writing. B: I failed to make any progress connecting with people who trade btc here. I searched for meetups but all I saw was blockchain events in San Jose. WTI: I can go to the various bitcoin related meetup pages and message everyone who [01:06]
whaack: is actively attending events, asking if they know anyone willing to sell some btc for cash near where I live. [01:06]
diana_coman: http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/who-said-that-or-the-importance-of-v/#comment-208 - whaack , you'll have to sing your vpatch nao! [04:38]
jfw: Now we know why music has all those key signatures! [11:18]
jfw: diana_coman: could you have a look at my draft musl missive at your convenience (after 7pm is fine)? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=gp4K [11:46]
jfw: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-17-Feb-2020#1018607 - thanks for clarifying bvt; the joys of beholding this will await me. [11:53]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-17 18:13:33 bvt: jfw: phf has fully done the job of vpatch parsing in ada, so not all string processing tasks in ada are hard; only if you go outside of the "string model" of the language this is the case; but specifically with ada, in some tasks you end up with 100x code for no clear benefit. [11:53]
dorion: whaack there may be people buying/selling btc at britneychain events. pretense, aside btc is > 90\% of actual trade and otc morseo, so shitcoiners still need the cash/btc trade. then they can sell their btc for alts on their decentralized exchanges or w/e. [11:57]
feedbot: http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/18/strutting-waving-and-skin-sharing-euloras-defaults/ << Ossa Sepia -- Strutting, Waving and Skin Sharing (Eulora's Defaults) [12:49]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If it's not too late, I would like to pledge as a page. This weekend as I turned 34, I was struck by terror as I pondered what exactly is inside my veins. Dread left me paralyzed. For years I've been trying to conquer my shortcomings as an independent, and I have failed. [13:55]
ossabot: (trilema) 2020-02-15 mp_en_viaje: i seriously do not wish to hear anymore from you. if all you've got inside is in that vein, do me the favour and make that your last word. [13:55]
BingoBoingo: I have to surrender, unguided I don't have the stuff. If you will have me, I'm ready. Please help me take the steps to stop being a lemon. [13:55]
jfw: tips his hat to BingoBoingo. [14:05]
BingoBoingo: I find myself powerless over my stupid and my life, to the extent I might still have one, has become unmanageable. [14:13]
BingoBoingo: to the grocery store [14:14]
whaack: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018610 bahaha, just waiting for billymg's vpatch viewer to include the necessary audio upload feature [14:23]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 04:38:34 diana_coman: http://ztkfg.com/2020/02/who-said-that-or-the-importance-of-v/#comment-208 - whaack , you'll have to sing your vpatch nao! [14:23]
whaack: dorion: Alright, I will include the more politically correct words that signal a chance of bitcoin activity as keywords in my search [14:27]
dorion: whaack I said that to you, but wouldn't say that to the uninitiated. I was more saying don't give up on talking to them so fast. It's worth finding out if there are potential trade sources there because the reality is even if they're talking block chain, there is still probably a good percentage doing btc on the trade side. [14:46]
dorion: in my experience, many block chain/shitcoin people are open that they're only talking about/trading the alts to get more btc. [14:47]
whaack: dorion: do you think btc is where it stops, or are they in turn only interested in getting more btc to get more fiat? [14:58]
dorion: whaack hard to say generally outside of people have interest in making relationships to source liquidity in both directions. [15:11]
diana_coman: hello MrMeseekx ; what brings you here? [15:14]
MrMeseekx: Hello Diana. I heard about bingo's need for assistance to make a crawler for qntra outreach. [15:15]
MrMeseekx: So I am trying to contact him. Last thing I know is he went for groceries. [15:16]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: so how/where did you hear of that ? [15:17]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: well done on registering your key with deedbot; do you know someone around here or how did you find your way in here now? [15:18]
MrMeseekx: I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic. [15:19]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: oh, huh; but why just..watch? are we...entertaining? lolz. [15:19]
MrMeseekx: I went into #trilema once and introduced myself, unfortunately lost my previous key. [15:20]
MrMeseekx: I'd say entertaining and interesting to observe. [15:20]
MrMeseekx: And also admirable. [15:20]
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018612 - jfw, it looks at your most reasonable self; the only bit that I think it's perhaps better set differently would be that "urge" - seriously, I have yet to see anyone do or even seriously consider something because of being urged by someone they didn't know; so maybe just set that as as a question and/or state that there is no reason for the added complexity? [15:23]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 11:46:18 jfw: diana_coman: could you have a look at my draft musl missive at your convenience (after 7pm is fine)? http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=gp4K [15:23]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: eh, dunno if we are that much in the showbusiness, lolz; what came of that previous introduction before losing your key, anyway? [15:24]
diana_coman: whaack: did you talk to Hannah at all ? [15:25]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-18#1604613 [15:26]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: hey, first of all - happy birthday! [15:26]
MrMeseekx: MP made some fun of me as an ancap and had some discussion over my plans for marriage and stuff. But I think I didn't end up that bad :D [15:27]
MrMeseekx: It is BingoBoingo's birthday? haha, what a coincidence. May I script something for him as a bday present :P [15:28]
diana_coman: reads the ancient history of 2017, lmao; have a bit of patience. [15:29]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: the best bday present is where he learns how to script, really; that doesn't mean necessarily you can't do anything, but you know, helping people is a tricky thing to get right. [15:30]
MrMeseekx: As far as I know he said he will study the code once he gets it. [15:31]
whaack: diana_coman: http://paste.deedbot.org/?id=HjM0 (no urgency) [15:32]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: I'm sure he will but that's separate anyway; so did you do that ancapia-nation-thing? lolz [15:33]
whaack: diana_coman: No I did not. I'll go ahead and ask for advice in her castle. [15:34]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: I didn't, got too busy getting married. Still in my plans tho. [15:34]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: and....why? [15:35]
diana_coman: I mean why still in the plans, lol? [15:35]
diana_coman: for the getting married I can imagine why a bit more easily. [15:35]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: You mean why is there any need for it if Trilema and the WoT already exist? I ask myself the same. [15:35]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: I think I still want to make an implementation of my own plan in my own way. [15:36]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: not even that far, way closer - I mean first of all why do you think you "make" a... nation; well, as a side hobby, too, by the sounds of it; nothing wrong with your own plan and your own way but exactly what is this your own way? [15:37]
BingoBoingo: MrMeseekx: My birthday was actually Sunday, but thank you. I apologize but I've made a habit of not responding to private messages from strangers. [15:38]
MrMeseekx: BingoBoingo: Understandable. [15:39]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: you know, re scripts and that, nobody can stop you making and publishing it anyway. [15:39]
BingoBoingo: MrMeseekx: Really it's been made clear to me that I've got to wrestle with it myself. Playing with tools that last few days has helped ease things a bit, but I'm still bumping into things and wrestling with how to shape the thing. [15:40]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: My own way is basically creating the tools and environment that I believe would make the thing progress and thrive. Originally I thought it could start as social media, but then I thught a better idea is to make a to-do-list application... then turning them into contracts. [15:41]
BingoBoingo: MrMeseekx: I don't know hw many channel logs you've been following, but here's where I was as of last night http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema-hanbot/2020-02-17#1001392 [15:41]
ossabot: (trilema-hanbot) 2020-02-17 BingoBoingo: hanbot_abroad diana_coman: The problem of identifying an article url on a blog url without importing python or something else heavy has me stumped, so I've been reconsidering the possibility of blasting out a crawl over serveral degrees. The flow filewise would be something like 'churn' to 'churndomains' to 'churn2' to 'churndomains2' and so on out to the ending on a list of all the urls scraped in the third or fourth iteration [15:41]
jfw: diana_coman: yeah the urging doesn't add much; better to do than talk about doing. Tweaked the wording and will launch momentarily. [15:42]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: do you think it's tools that make anything progress and thrive? [15:42]
diana_coman: is that the nation of shiny tools you are planning there? [15:42]
MrMeseekx: BingoBoingo: So if I understand correctly the problem is identifying the links to blog articles? [15:45]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: understand that I'm not against help but help is what is actually needed, not what one finds convenient to give at one time or another, that's the rub; and if I get correctly that "voluntaryism" to mean the sort of "tourism where you volunteer aka get to feel virtuous while seeing others that have it worse than you", there is some serious mismatch. [15:45]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Thank you [15:45]
BingoBoingo: MrMeseekx: It's one potential problem. There is also the meta problem of whether that's actually the problem I should be attacking. [15:45]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: what does this admirable mean concretely from your point of view? that you want to be part of this admirable thing? or that you'd rather not be part of it? [15:49]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 15:20:47 MrMeseekx: And also admirable. [15:49]
MrMeseekx: BingoBoingo: To resolve the meta problem I think the goal must be very clearly stated. I can say that from what I read in your bingology post crawler specs, you are kind of mixing *what* you want to get with *how* you are trying to get it. From step 3 I can get that the goal seems to be to find targets. But it specifies that targets will be identified by finding comment boxes. [15:49]
BingoBoingo: MrMeseekx: In my attempts to do mass commenting by hand, discovery of functioning comment boxes is indeed the biggest time sink. Bigger than actually spinning comments relevant to the articles attached to the boxes. [15:51]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: we'll talk for sure some more but at a time when it's a bit more...peaceful. [15:51]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Thank you. [15:52]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: It is admirable that a community based on gpg contracts wot was built. Do I want to be part of it? I think so. [15:52]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: dunno, I thought you'd rather made your own thing than be part of anything, admirable or not, as it might be. [15:55]
diana_coman: for the logs, the voluntaryism, actual virtual nation and other projects [15:58]
ossabot: (trilema) 2017-01-17 Ingolfr_Arnarson: asciilifeform: I do not have a www created. Just owning www.ancapia.com, trying to design the best plan to make it a guide for people into voluntaryism or to turn it into an actual virtual nation conforming instructions. If possible. If I decide it is not, then I'll drop it and dedicate onto other projects I have. [15:58]
MrMeseekx: BingoBoingo: Do you have any urls of pages that have been difficult to process that way? [16:00]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: Do both things have to be mutually exclusive? [16:01]
BingoBoingo: MrMeseekx: Right now I'm still working on finessign an step earlier than that. [16:02]
dorion: diana_coman for my article series in progress, I took a step back to clarify the subject, scope and structure. here's what I have for that. I've started on converting the content I have in .tex to html , but not done yet. [16:03]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: what's your idea of "being part of tmsr"? [16:03]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: and yes, tools is what makes things progress. If you disagree I'd like to know why. [16:03]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: because no pile of tools is ever worth anything by itself; it's always people that make things progress (or regress) and you can give/have the most amazing of tools and you'll still not get anywhere without the people capable and willing to get somewhere; is this news? [16:05]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: I see being part of tmsr as being part of the conversation, joining the WoT, earning your rates fulfilling your contracts. [16:05]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: Of course you need the people, but once you find the people, they will need the right tools. Actually, if the tools you have help you in finding the right people, even better. [16:07]
diana_coman: dorion: now that sounds like a History of TMSR from its pre-history to the present but I can't quite tell yet if you are aiming style-wise for Xenophon, Herodotus, Gibbon or who else! [16:08]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: so you followed the logs since 2017 and you got this idea that tmsr is like a corporation that you might fulfill some contracts for and therefore become "part of it"? [16:10]
diana_coman: with added bonus that there are some amazing tools (that you'll make because since it's tools you are used to make then and therefore it follows that it's exactly *tools* that happen - how conveniently! - to be the actual core and crux and *everything* most needed and most important otherwise, right? [16:11]
dorion: diana_coman yeah, that's essentially what my presentations were on. The history of Bitcoin and TMSR that's there, waiting to be read, that many people haven't found their way to. [16:12]
dorion: The idea is for the series to be a coherent entry point for the context. [16:13]
dorion: AMAZING COMPANY !!! [16:13]
diana_coman: dorion: yes but it's one thing to set out to document and it's another thing to set out to "Discuss the deeds of the major actors in Bitcoin on technological, financial and political fronts." [16:15]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: well, tmsr is the last place where humans can prove being worth of surviving after everything else goes to zero. But basically yeah, it is built on identity and getting things done. [16:15]
diana_coman: dorion: you know, for one thing one might correctly ask you what and how exactly qualifies you for that sort of discussion; what are you going to answer exactly? [16:15]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: that being built on identity doesn't strike you at all at odds with your proposed approach to be "part of it" by ...fulfilling contracts on the side in between "making own nation", marriage and building those amazing tools? [16:18]
diana_coman: (those that will bring people out of ...hm, out of what, even?) [16:18]
dorion: diana_coman good question. a correct shift then to align the task with what my qualifications may be could be, "this is the important history as I understand it" [16:21]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: hahaa, no because I am not meaning it in a way of being 'part of it' as becoming a refugee under welfare in a progressive nation, but to be literally a part. [16:21]
diana_coman: dorion: if you are aiming to provide that "coherent entry point", your goal is to collect & structure, not to discuss; does this distinction make sense to you? [16:22]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: it's not even possible to be part of it as a "refugee under welfare", what nonsense is that [16:23]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: exactly. But you know how 'a nation' is defined nowadays, everybody can be part of it, you can do anything. [16:23]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: trouble is that it's *also* not "being part of it" through the act of ..coding as such, that is also pure nonsense. [16:25]
diana_coman: dorion: the choice/selection is of course entirely yours and personal and as such inevitably "the important history" as *you* understand it, of course. [16:26]
diana_coman: to the extent you want/have comments, you can of course also add those comments in there, it's your article and all that; but that doesn't quite amount to "discussing the deeds etc" [16:27]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: tmsr is anyway a republic so not exactly much to do with "how a nation is defined nowadays" [16:27]
MrMeseekx: so how is one part of it. [16:28]
dorion: diana_coman ok. collect and structure was the meat of what I did in the presentation. the comments I made were summaries of various articles/events, e.g. the politics of bitcoin delineates, among other things, fiat businessness attempting to exploit bitcoin for fiat gains and Bitcoin businesses insulated from fiat. [16:31]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: is that a question? apparently outside tmsr it's even question marks that are difficult to ...find? at any rate, for one quick and clear answer, here: http://logs.ossasepia.com/log/trilema/2019-03-04#1900385 [16:32]
ossabot: (trilema) 2019-03-04 mircea_popescu: empire does not in any factual sense exist. man who works 70\% of the time for idiots is === the remaining 30\% of that man. [16:32]
diana_coman: dorion: all right; so do you /were you planning to do something in addition to that? (if yes, what?) or just more of that ie more details/events/articles? [16:33]
diana_coman: dorion: understand that I'm not trying to hold you back from enjoyable work there; I'm only trying to hold you back from overshooting without even quite realising it. [16:34]
dorion: more of the details/events/articles since I restricted the content of the presentations to the 2hrs speaking I had. and to turn the deck as prompts for speaking to coherent articles. [16:35]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: another way of putting this is that whether you are part of tmsr or not starts from *who you are* in everything you do and as such, when you are coming from a long history of purposefully staying *outside* of it, it usually involves/requires a lot of self-change aka learning at its most...radical, let's say. [16:37]
diana_coman: dorion: all right, so by the sounds of it you are aiming for something reasonable, except your statement of it got out of hand entirely ie you do need to either pay more attention to what words like "discuss the deeds of" really mean or otherwise generally to tone down the *description* of what you plan to do. [16:40]
diana_coman: possibly both really, it's essentially just another facet of that tendency to jump abruptly [16:42]
ossabot: (trilema) 2020-02-17 dorion: spyked is rebuilding trb shortly, so if mod6 leads the way, followed by jfw and spyked that's at least 3 people scrutinizing the clearsigning scheme, tools and likely many of the same patches within the same timeframe. [16:42]
diana_coman: dorion: anyways, then do the outline for that 2009-2010 so you can get started sooner rather than later, all right? [16:43]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: so to be (as in to exist) in tmsr one must be 100\% in tmsr, meaning the cost of opportunity of not being is 100\%. [16:45]
dorion: diana_coman yeah, probably both. goes back to the point you made a while ago about the opportunity I have to get more depth. [16:45]
dorion: diana_coman ok, will move on 2009-2010 outline. [16:45]
dorion: ty diana_coman [16:46]
diana_coman: dorion: more depth indeed; and yw, do come with whatever version of that outline you have, sooner rather than later, ok? [16:46]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: well, tell me something, are you part of your marriage 30\%? 50\%? what \%? [16:47]
dorion: diana_coman aok. [16:47]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: as you might have noticed, that doesn't mean people don't live in the real world or something; it simply means that it's all about who you are and that's always 100\% indeed, in all places and at all times, how can it be less that that. [16:51]
diana_coman: (not to mention why on Earth would you *want* it to be less than that - it's like wanting to chop off a leg) [16:53]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: I see your point. [16:54]
MrMeseekx: But how to know who somebody is? [16:55]
MrMeseekx: Or how do you do to find out who somebody is. [16:55]
MrMeseekx: But clearly with \% I meant to not waste time in doing things what won't help you achieve the goals you have. [16:57]
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018737 - traditionally that is most obviously found out in crisis situations really; did you read modernism and traditionalism? [17:03]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 16:55:28 MrMeseekx: Or how do you do to find out who somebody is. [17:03]
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018738 - what if your goals are wrong to start with? [17:04]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 16:57:01 MrMeseekx: But clearly with \% I meant to not waste time in doing things what won't help you achieve the goals you have. [17:04]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: and no, that "clearly" is not at all clearly to me; I don't follow so maybe you explain to me what you mean there. [17:05]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: you know, as an analogy - how do you find out if something shiny is gold or not? you ...test it, right? [17:06]
MrMeseekx: You have resources, at any point, time, money, credibility, etc. You have to decide which \% of each use for what, depending of which goal you pick. If your goal is wrong, then that \% used in it got wasted. [17:07]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: eh, do read that modernism and traditionalism because you are sidestepping there entirely any being as such. [17:08]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: Yes, you test it. Using the best tools you have to test it at the moment.Yes, you can be wrong about the right tools too, as you can be wrong about a goal. But finding out when one is wrong is how you get your knowledge. [17:08]
diana_coman: ahaha, that focus on tools. [17:09]
diana_coman: sure, finding out when you are wrong *and changing as a result* is exactly how one learns, certainly. [17:09]
diana_coman: do mind that troublesome second part. [17:10]
MrMeseekx: I agree. [17:12]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: glad to hear the words; curious to see how the actions will match that too, heh. [17:16]
diana_coman: whaack: got it, thanks; is there something you wanted to discuss ? [17:20]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: you around? [17:41]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I am [17:41]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: mind telling me (or perhaps writing it up if that's easier/clearer) in more detail what you figured out to be in your veins as you put it? [17:43]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 13:55:24 BingoBoingo: diana_coman: If it's not too late, I would like to pledge as a page. This weekend as I turned 34, I was struck by terror as I pondered what exactly is inside my veins. Dread left me paralyzed. For years I've been trying to conquer my shortcomings as an independent, and I have failed. [17:43]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I found a lot of uncertainty. I found that in my disorganization, I let a skills gape, culture gap, and all sorts of other small gaps grow in my blindspots. [17:47]
BingoBoingo: I found that if I keep trying to maintain the pretense of independence, these gaps can only grow. [17:48]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: why can they only grow? [17:49]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I lack practice and experience productively directing my attention and activity [17:49]
BingoBoingo: I see the examination and confrontation of flaws in this castle, and I've stubbornly been thinking I'm special. I'm not, and this honestly seems like the sort of help I need. [17:52]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: there is this striking disconnect in that when it comes to writing-for-qntra (and *strictly*, only that), you seem to be both productive and quite self-directed without any trouble; on other sides (like pizarro), it seemed more fitful/hit and miss (and with wide discrepancy too); on yet other parts it's like a huge block and/or going round about it. [17:52]
BingoBoingo: It strikes me that it is as though I have some sort of blinders like a horse. [17:54]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: well, each and every person is themselves for sure; what is this "special" supposed to be more than that? [17:55]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I suspect finding myself on a certain list year after year has been feeding a pernicious, self-protecting/defeating part of the ego. [17:56]
diana_coman: that list starts sounding more and more like the list-of-doom, huh. [17:57]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It does. [17:58]
BingoBoingo: I would like to start confronting my flaws in an organized way, becoming productive and escaping my worn schtick as a one-trick pony [18:02]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: while you've been around and active (very visibly active, even!) for a long time really, I still can't quite put together a very clear picture of where you really are and why - in part possibly because of my relative lack of fit re journalism, in part because of the jumps/fits, not sure if there aren't any other parts too. [18:03]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: why is qntra such a great fit for you and why is ~nothing else able to fit the same? [18:05]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I came in early but shy, maybe I ought to do something on the biography. [18:05]
BingoBoingo: As to why Qntra seems so much easier than everything else... [18:06]
BingoBoingo: There's a lot of overlap in who/what I don't like in the world and who/what the republic doesn't like. Still as experience, recent and otherwise has shown... that's not a very strong tie on its own despite being an oft repeated trope. [18:07]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: you know, that's actually an interesting bit - I can almost say more about what you do NOT like than I can say about what you DO like; and the trouble with not-likes is that they are indeed not productive by nature; they can work as a sort of productive only once-removed (aka destroy/clear up/make space/maybe even motivate others to rebuild but not directly). [18:10]
BingoBoingo: Despite being loud and appearing in the occasional photograph, I don't know that I've ever been challenged enough on the shyness. [18:12]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: how does this shyness apply here? [18:15]
diana_coman: (and good god, what's with you and shyness people??) [18:15]
BingoBoingo: It seems to be part of the Anglotarded problem pushed by the environment. My ancestors were the rustic sort of Northern Europeans and Germans that were brough over to fill in the middle west when it wasn't quite such a new world. [18:17]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: eh, for starters do stop finding excuses for whatever it is; that has never ever helped anyone - and not for lack of being thoroughly tried, lol. [18:19]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Alright [18:19]
whaack: diana_coman: There is nothing additional I wish to discuss regarding that msg other than what to do with my additional ~20 hours per week that will become available once my contract is done. [18:20]
diana_coman: fwiw, it's not like I don't know what being shy means/how it works; but it's a rather...younger age thing, hm. [18:20]
diana_coman: whaack: how do you define opportunity cost? [18:21]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: back to the issue at hand - how/why do you say shyness applies there/in what way? as I don't quite get it. [18:21]
diana_coman: I mean: you talk & have been talking in the chans, relatively all right, kept that blog more or less; didn't seem to visibly shy away from conversation etc. [18:22]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I guess it comes in with not knowing how to talk about myself. [18:22]
BingoBoingo: Or at least with not knowing how to talk about myself in a civilized, adult manner. [18:23]
diana_coman: that sounds more likely and for that matter less to do with shyness, more to do with lack of ...practice with civilized, adult conversations, quite a different thing. [18:23]
BingoBoingo: That's the sort of connection I'm having trouble making for myself. [18:24]
whaack: diana_coman: The difference between what one has gained for some decision and what would would have gained for the best possible decision. [18:26]
diana_coman: what I don't quite see (or not yet) is where and why it breaks in those places for you, hm. [18:26]
diana_coman: whaack: how do you figure out what you'd have gained "for the best possible decision"? [18:27]
diana_coman: and anyway, since you can figure out what that best possible decision is, why the hell wouldn't you ...go for it? lolz [18:28]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: looking at your blog archive, it does strike as very btc-oriented with only occasional excursions in any you-territory [18:29]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: That would be a fair assessment, maybe even understating it a bit. [18:31]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: when you say you want to get out of this one-trick pony thing - do you mean generally or do you mean it Qntra-specific? [18:31]
whaack: diana_coman: Well the definition can still hold up even if you only learn what was the best possible decision retroactively. But I think the problem with using the concept of opportunity cost in the way I did is that opportunity cost doesn't have meaning unless one's comparing like things. [18:32]
diana_coman: whaack: the opportunity cost is the loss of *not choosing the other available options*; nothing to do with hypothetical (since it can't be anything other than hypothetical) "best" [18:33]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I mean I want to work on growing into a person who can do more than produce and edit stories for Qntra. [18:33]
diana_coman: whaack: putting it the simplest possible, if I ask you to choose between an apple and a pear, your opportunity cost if you choose the apple is that pear, not some "best fruit" [18:34]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: sounds sensible as in wanting to grow into a full, healthy person, sure. [18:35]
whaack: diana_coman: Right, but if you offer me an apple, a pear, or two pears, and I pick the apple, then my opportunity cost is a pair of pears, right? I think I see your point though. [18:36]
diana_coman: whaack: the opportunity cost is everything you didn't get so technically speaking, it's 3 pears really. [18:38]
diana_coman: by choosing an apple, you gave up 3 pears; regardless of the fact that "oh, but I couldn't have gotten both the single pear and the pair of pears"; no matter. [18:38]
whaack: diana_coman: ok, the definition is more clear now. [18:42]
diana_coman: I suppose the attraction to consider "the best choice" is that yes, it makes it neat; but my trouble with it is the implicit assumption that you actually can evaluate *upfront* the actual benefit. [18:42]
diana_coman: whaack: the above being said, I should mention that I ~always quarelled with economists-with-diploma (despite even helping at some point my father write his MBA thesis, huh). [18:43]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: And with respect to Qntra and learning to script and navigate the command line, I could use help targeting which part of the problem tree I should be attacking and how to not let trying to eat the whole tree at once monopolize my attention.. [18:44]
diana_coman: so it might well be that my definition for opportunity cost is not entirely fitting the classics or something. [18:44]
diana_coman: whaack: at any rate, the thing that started this - do you see that remote job as the thing you lose ie your opportunity cost? [18:45]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: hm, re qntra at this stage the trouble seems to be deeper in that it's unclear to me to what extent you have made some plans - not as definitive "recipes" - but as "I know what I'm going to *do* and therefore it it turns out it's not working, what I'll change" [18:47]
whaack: heh I concentrated in economics at MIT. I *really* checked out of those classes and I do not think that was a mistake. (One history of finance class professor gave a timeline of bitcoin that included "satoshi discovered" (as hoaxtoshi)) [18:49]
diana_coman: whaack: I have to admit that the economics teacher entirely lost my attention the moment they re-arranged some formula and insisted that it was *a different formula*; but that aside, my quarrels there go deeper, lolz. [18:52]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: are you specifically looking atm for fine-grained direction on those scripts? [18:55]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: I'm not sure if the problems I'm hitting are of fine or coarse grain. [18:57]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: You do have a point on the deeper problem. In the early days of Qntra, cazalla and I would egg each other on and push each other to do all sorts of things to see that sticks, but we did it through the now unseemly channel of private irc messages. [18:57]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: I meant more re the direction aka micro-management if you prefer. [18:57]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: what sorts of things did you try at that time, anyway? (I wasn't even quite aware of specific attempts, huh) [18:58]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Having played with awk and pipes for a few days, I don't suspect I'll require particularly micro-scale management. [18:59]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Back them we could reliably bait traffic from reddit, and other social media venues. [18:59]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: did that ever translate in any contributors or at least enquiries in that vein? [19:00]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: It's hard to say that far back. It might have brought in whaack and some other folks at the periphery. [19:02]
MrMeseekx: BingoBoingo: I have been playing with pipes and sed all day trying to make the crawler as specified. :D [19:02]
whaack: diana_coman: No, I don't see it as the opportunity cost. I very much want to be doing something else with my time. I see saltmines as a drag that I *must do* but it is possible that is not the case and I can stop for a while or forever once I'm done with this contract. [19:03]
jfw: "No one user matters more than another" - first response from musl list :D [19:04]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: but you see, you do what you do what you'd have done anyway essentially and otherwise expect/hope it willl somehow be also what is needed/useful; that's a terribly poor strategy and one with documented horrible outcomes. [19:04]
diana_coman: jfw: aahhaha, do cite it in #t too, for the record if for nothing else. [19:04]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: The intial push to build QNtra by attacking the GAW miners scam did draw leaks http://qntra.net/2015/04/garza-friends-additional-emails-detailed/ [19:05]
BingoBoingo: The attack on GAW built momentum that kept Qntra relevant through the hardfork wars. [19:06]
diana_coman: whaack: there is no must in that sense, no; what you *must* do is to make sure your effort and time works for *you* and esp for you in the long term; the exact form of that however can never be a must in that way, no. [19:06]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: I enjoy doing it tho. [19:08]
diana_coman: BingoBoingo: so listen, do yourself a favour for starters, trawl those pms or whatever and write up a summary with what you 2 tried and what worked and what didn't, in what way, etc; write up somewhere in clear also what your current script does and what/where you're stuck + why; I honestly couldn't quite follow at that level of detail from the chans only. [19:09]
BingoBoingo: diana_coman: Thank you. I'll get to work. [19:09]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: that I'm sure you do; did you notice the topic in #trilema? maybe figure out what it means, as it's basically speaking straight to you there. [19:09]
diana_coman: http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/21/ossasepia-logs-for-18-Feb-2020#1018635 - btw, MrMeseekx why won't that friend come in, register a key and say hi? and all the others for that matter, as you can see, you survived unharmed. [19:13]
ossabot: Logged on 2020-02-18 15:19:07 MrMeseekx: I have a chat group with some friends, and one of them introduced us about trilema long time ago and is always talking about itand sending links and the logs when something happens. So we are kind of always watching the affairs of the republic. [19:13]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: Yeah, time is gone. I just feel the need to solve the problem as it is stated there, it is there, i wanna solve it. [19:16]
diana_coman: jfw: you know, this musl adventure of yours turned out quite instructive since there you go, that "no user matters more than another" thrown back at reflex-speed (and just as obviously ignoring all your carefully crafted message) is quite what seasoned engineers means by now. [19:18]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: oh, my friend did that and didn't survive. :p [19:19]
MrMeseekx: But insists all the time in all of us should come and registrer a key and try to prove if we are human. [19:20]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: so you are utterly vulnerable to a ddos-by-stated-problems attack? lolz; the unreflecting wanna-solve-it can turn out very sour. [19:20]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: ahaha, is that the code-solver-from-under-the-bed? [19:20]
diana_coman: I was rather surprised at the recent canada-based popularity, lolz. [19:21]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: he didn't *want* to survive, what can one do. [19:21]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: yeah.... i bit the bait. [19:22]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: did he put it as ... a problem to solve? [19:22]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: Bingo call for a script? Well, it looked like a problem to solve. [19:23]
diana_coman: but you know, even better than learning from when *you* are wrong, is when you learn from when someone *else* was wrong so that you don't ...repeat the same mistakes at least; just saying here. [19:23]
diana_coman: MrMeseekx: neah, the bait to come here (where horrible things happen!!!!1!!) [19:24]
MrMeseekx: diana_coman: LOL, I'll try to die not. [19:25]
whaack: BingoBoingo: iirc http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ hooked me into reading trilema [21:14]
dorion: as well. [21:26]
jfw: oh hey, fixpoint gets its first spam. for ...amoxicillin online! [21:38]

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