Ossasepia

May 24, 2018

A Tiny Stab at a Little Pricing Problem

Filed under: Eulora — DianaComan @ 10:57 p.m.

To start off, here's Foxy making disgusting goop in large quantities1:

Why is she making that? Well, for profit, what else. With each click, she's transforming 2852 ECu worth of rock-and-what-not into 4324 ECu worth of Disgusting Goop. That might not sound like much, except for the fact that it is effectively a 50% added value just like that in a few minutes (and while I sleep, yes, how else).

The above concrete numbers give me added ECu but also a way of approaching the ever-thorny euloran issue of pricing stuff. Only yesterday it would seem I failed at pricing some WPL correctly since the market (that had ASKED for WPL specifically) decided that... it was too expensive to bother buying it! So no sale made and a fee to pay instead2 but also a very clear and concrete thing to point to next time when anyone asks for WPL or complains that they don't have it.

Regardless of the market being there apparently completely lost in terms of what is how much and why would WPL cost more than dirt-cheap, lowest quality basic stuff, it's still worth to look again at some fresh data and see what prices make sense at all. Taking the Disgusting Goop above, let's calculate precisely what went in and what came out:

input: bundle of quality 595 + blueprint of quality 120 = 5.95*470 + 1.2*47 = 2852 ECu (quality adjusted base value3 )

output: 8 DG of quality 115 = 8*1.15*470 = 4324 ECu (quality adjusted base value)

Output / input = 4324/2852 = 1.51 (i.e. 151% or 51% gain).

Considering that the DG bundle is made only from harvestables4 it follows that Foxy simply can NOT sell those harvestables (rf, cr and sm) at anything less than 150% because at anything less than that she'd be better off using them as input to craft!  Notice also that the basic resources there (rf+cr) make only 2 thirds of the bundle, with sm the other third. For this little exercise I ignored the distinction between basic and non-basic harvestable but mining experience screams loud and clear that non-basic resources ARE harder to get in same quantities and same qualities. Which is not at all surprising given that they have higher value, doh.

As usual, in practice things are indeed a bit murkier, as all sorts of considerations quickly come stomping in: this 50% increase might be obtainable only at this specific sweet spot or only for this specific combination etc. Nevertheless, it IS some concrete data point in a sea of unknowns, so I'll stick to it for now. I'll add also that Foxy is a very skilled crafter (possibly even the top crafter at the moment) and it is for this reason that she *has this option* to make a significant profit just by crafting. Other players might find that the highest profit they can make out of harvestables really is by selling them at less than 150%, why not?

As Foxy's rather busy earning about 1500 ECu every couple of minutes for now, let's leave her aside for a moment and ask simply: what are *you* earning every couple of minutes and what are *your* options really?


  1. Yes, the red messages are all there one on top of the other because the bot is firing requests at the server without pause for clicking, eating, thinking or any of the other human-vices. 

  2. There is a fee for auctions without sale to discourage spam of useless auctions. 

  3. Also known as qabv and in any case the de facto *minimum* value of something in Eulora since that's what you can always get if you sell the item to the merchant NPC (i.e. to S.MG directly). 

  4. harvestables are obtained directly from euloran soil as a result of "mining" activity aka /explore + build; by contrast, craftables are items crafted as above, possibly from harvestables or other craftables 

6 Comments »

  1. What about considering blueprints sell for 1000% ? Still profit?

    Comment by Daniel P. Barron — May 24, 2018 @ 11:04 p.m.

  2. The principal problem is of course the blueprint. It's not straightforward how to value the bp value in that 2852 ECu in 4324 ECu out equation.

    Comment by Mircea Popescu — May 24, 2018 @ 11:27 p.m.

  3. @Daniel Not only bps: harvestables as well as the resulting goop certainly sell for more than just bv anyway, what of it? Either everything is considered at base value or everything is considered at market value. And to consider at market value, there has to *be* first a market value. Anyway, in chan I gave the numbers for some reasonable estimate of "market values" including indeed the bp at 1000%:
    8*1.15*470*1.5/(5.95*470*2+1.2*470) = 1.0534351145

    In other words: considering bps at 1000% and harvestables at 200% (which is rich for basics, doubt anyone pays that for rf) it's still a slight profit to sell the resulting dg at 150%. If one considers inputs at 150% instead, it works out even better really:
    8*1.15*470*1.25÷(5.95*470*1.5+1.2*470) = 1.13

    So yes, still profit.

    @Mircea Honestly I'm not that convinced there has to be some special case in there. It is valued as it contributes when everything is taken either at base value or at market value (everything, not only the oh-so-special-bp). See the numbers above. Other than that its special contribution is reflected in the fact that foxy makes 8 items for each bp but that's part of how she adds value - foxy's contribution as it were, not the bp's.

    Based on the noobs experience I also think that the prices on bps and tokens for that matter would go down if there was a better match between the clicker and the thing clicked. Pretty much like above: one can argue that Foxy doing exploring simply pushes up the prices of harvestables without any good reason. A noob building with Foxy's bundles can sell results at lower markup but since nobody can be bothered to do it, there we are stuck with wpl at 200% and basics at 150% or more, what can I say.

    Comment by Diana Coman — May 25, 2018 @ 8:55 a.m.

  4. Yeah, can't say all the 2nd order effects are well digested yet. It may be that you have a solid point, and in fact there is a lot of economic inefficiency (such as the example you give, where noobs not using your bundles forces you to mine at higher marginal cost). Tis complicated.

    Comment by Mircea Popescu — May 26, 2018 @ 5:32 a.m.

  5. To top it all, just a few days after this was done and published, Eulora whirled its skirts again and everything changed: crafting is much faster now but the above outputs are not exactly...reliable anymore, to say the least.

    So much for the tiny stab, good while it lasted, back to the drawing board for now.

    Comment by Diana Coman — June 4, 2018 @ 2:29 p.m.

  6. Loller.

    Comment by Mircea Popescu — July 10, 2018 @ 10:46 p.m.

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