Day changed to 2026-07-01
[08:35] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, I'm making more cft even now but in any case, I have 200cft in storage at q19 currently, so ping me when you get back to PPP and we see
[21:14] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: I'm here at your storage
[23:14] Vivian Sporepress: I think there's really something funny going on vis-a-vis that peculiar lbn column at left edge ppp, http://ossasepia.com/2026/04/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Apr-2026/#5396 - I've seen similar effects in other near-deserted sectors now too
[23:14] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-04-20 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: I've seen that too on occasion, even among the cr in ppp from my old data. the newer client knowledge based map also shows a whole column of them at 40 unit spacing, all on their own near the left edge in ppp; especially odd since I don't recall it being me finding them, yet how would I have gotten close enough to see them all but not any actual claims nearby...
[23:16] Vivian Sporepress: I've certainly done 40-unit grid exploring runs so it seems possibly some kind of looking at the reflection of my own retina, as it were
[23:32] Vivian Sporepress: two smoking guns from knowledge/res_sect_kw.txt: in the first, there are some true lbn-spots within my 40-unit grid which covers x=-240..280 by z=-240..280. two jump out as unaligned with the grid, perhaps they were manual explores. then there's one at 0,0,0 - a suspicious y-value by itself but then there's a flotsam found in same sector at same x-z origin but y=12. then a column of 10 at left edge, way outside the grid and outside the normal sight horizon of anywhere I'd been, and exactly the same values as those previously noted in PPP.
[23:39] Vivian Sporepress: in the second I'd covered a larger grid and the ones at z=-320 and -360 appear legit, but again there's the suspicious all-zeros, this time shadowing a CDG at 0,91,0; I recall it and the -440,12,-79 popping up on the plot early in my exploration before I'd got anywhere near x=-440.
[23:45] Vivian Sporepress: doing a text search on that most peculiar -440.00;12.00;-79.00 hits LBN (and only LBN) in 8 sectors including PPP.
[23:46] Vivian Sporepress: that's out of 19 total sectors for which I have LBN knowledge entries.
[23:52] Vivian Sporepress: a similar but less popular one found by visual means: -400.00;0.00;40.00 LBN in 4 sectors including PPP
Day changed to 2026-07-02
[00:02] Vivian Sporepress: another somewhat more complex: -280.00;100.00;-320.00 shows as LBN in 3 sectors including PPP but CDG in sector (-1;0), yet -280.00;67.00;-320.00 is CDG in PPP. Apologies to bystanders for the log-dump, I wasn't expecting to turn up the further clues.
[00:07] Felicia Solecrimp: Diana Coman okay
[00:07] Felicia Solecrimp: Ive been reading thats what satisfied me at most to stop thinking about it
[08:02] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, it seems we didn't quite sync for the cft. Today I'll likely be around in the evening for a couple of hours, from 7pm utc, hopefully that works. Otherwise I guess the fallback time remains the usual on Monday since it's fixed
[08:08] Diana Coman: thanks for the lbn/resource data feedback, I noticed that there are indeed some wrong-sector placements, from what I can tell mostly happening at a sector switch (always the more troublesome point). Not quite sure yet as to what would be a cure for it that is not worse than the problem though. In principle at least I could look to enforce more strictly a clean slate clientside whenever the sector changes, perhaps.
[17:58] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: 7pm works. sector switch seems a plausible explanation, except isn't there a sector ID -> item ID parent-child relationship that would keep it clear even if some no-longer-visible items linger in the object cache?
[20:06] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, there is the hierarchical relationship, I guess an atomic check on that would be the most straightforward thing to add in order to address this. Seemed rather overkill for resource knowledge but most likely unavoidable longer-term anyhow
[21:06] Vivian Sporepress: ready when you are, Diana Coman
[21:08] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, I have 200 cft q19, q23 or q24, which one?
[21:08] Vivian Sporepress: ah, I'll stick with the q19
[21:10] Vivian Sporepress: tyvm
[21:10] Diana Coman: enjoy!
[21:11] Diana Coman: meanwhile my cft seems to keep pushing upwards quality wise, dunno if I should keep some lower q separate
[21:13] Diana Coman: the mixing storage is most useful but since they end up all sorts of quality, it's either a pain to keep them separate or everything ends up around the same quality point, mostly pushed up or down by the crafting outputs
[21:25] Vivian Sporepress: it's a sort of entropy for quality levels.
[21:25] Vivian Sporepress: I just got 130 nt q1 from a small followed by 1505 nt q1 from a tiny, go figure.
[21:26] Vivian Sporepress: the small cost more but at least returned more experience
Day changed to 2026-07-04
[07:53] Diana Coman: heh, that 1505 nt q1 must have been quite the tiny!
[08:07] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, talking of AI, there is actually a more promising direction than the most visible hype that you get "following" all the usual (aka most visible/pushed) channels - quite ditching in fact the focus on blind "prediction" by means of "what came before in a lot of data" and aiming instead to extract abstractions on which to base some form of inferrence of outcome. It's only just getting the usual ton of funding so it remains to be seen how it's actually done, as always, but it's certainly a more promising direction and it seems to be getting a ton of funding currently too so it's quite likely to be heard of some more in the not so distant future.
[08:17] Diana Coman: for completeness if we are at it, there were earlier attempts for some form of machine learning aimed at extracting essential features to generate rather than merely predict, e.g. Ha and Schmidhuber's "World Models" from 2018 (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1803.10122) but most likely it's a more complex problem than the blind prediction and so it was the prediction that got pushed instead. Possibly the generative comes next, finally.
Day changed to 2026-07-05
[20:41] Vivian Sporepress: offering a transportation job of 1257 sb q1 from a small claim at x=-385 z=166 in PPP. sell 40% of them for me and do as you please with the rest. should take 5-10 trips for someone with higher capacities than me.
[20:49] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: for added confusion of course, anything that produces lots of output has been called "generative" and the process of predicting the next token based on model parameters + context tokens has been called "inference". and I've heard claims that LLMs have in fact learned essential features, under the right conditions (in particular, lower parameter counts so that overfitting just isn't possible).
[22:23] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5927 - but in other super-tinies, yesterday from a total of 24 tinies I pulled out 183 RF q5 and later 8167 RF q1 in single shots each using 20 LBN q11. again it started with a less than impressive small. dragged them all the way back home.
[22:23] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-04 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: heh, that 1505 nt q1 must have been quite the tiny!
Day changed to 2026-07-06
[01:32] Felicia Solecrimp: there is anew open source model from portugal called amalia
[01:34] Felicia Solecrimp: I heard that they are using with healthcare and also i was talking with the central america headquarteers of microsoft and they are using quantum computers and a lot of copilot in their industries i dont know why but she was curious on me she stop me on my way to the bathroom
[01:37] Felicia Solecrimp: is there like any other linux programs that are handy to learn to use ?
[02:21] Felicia Solecrimp: happy 5 of july spam day
[08:35] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, there is *always* something new like that. The time when there was value in merely finding out what new things are around is long passed, it was something like my parent's generation at best. Nowadays the only real value is exactly in a useful, reliable and known *filtering* of new, which really works best if one does it based on what they are actually, provably and consistently *working on/with*. So yes, of course "AI" is used and will be increasingly used everywhere, for various definitions of AI. Fwiw recommendation and expert systems (esp in healthcare) have been used even before they were called AI
[08:35] Diana Coman: similarly, given that microsoft has been pushing its own research on quantum computing, ofc they "are using it"
[08:36] Diana Coman: and finally, do realise that those in the job of exactly creating hype will forever "be interested" in pushing whatever they are pushing at that time on you wherever they can catch you
[08:37] Diana Coman: unless you really mean to go and work in that department/company/whatever, it really is still noise for you
[08:38] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on the not-so-tiny tinies, then! For my part, I finally got some 1.1k cft q100+ from my long-ish tinkering run so I am back to gathering more cdg
[08:44] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, on programs that are handy to learn to use - what are you going to use them *for*? Generally like that, I'd say getting used to command line utilities and combining them. And if you need something narrower, possibly awk esp via its original manual since it is exactly made to get one started quickly and with rather useful principles, at that. But again, the important thing is what you are trying to actually do and keep doing.
[08:49] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, note perhaps that this sort of "oh, I found there is x and there is y and also z" without any real deeper engagement or use of x,y,z is really just gossip fundamentally and otherwise the mental equivalent of exactly that distraction/interrupt me every two seconds to talk to me that you were noticing as not helpful
[08:50] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-06-20 (Eulora 2) Felicia Solecrimp: sorry for writing again by clumps i forgot to write together also i can actually learn but there is no motivation at home just distraction my mom likes to interrupt me every two seconds to talk to me in order to concentrate i need silence what im lacking from vivians home making a workable place will be the challenge
[08:52] Diana Coman: I get it, you want to interact and find things interesting and all that, which is very good, yes, only it still only ever really gets anywhere if you focus on doing something first and only then talking about that/from that
[13:06] Diana Coman: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/06/Notices-and-Announcements-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#270 - confirming this.
[13:06] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Notices and Announcements) Monroe Quarterslit: New items spotted in the wild, with varying descriptions and unknown properties! Anyone finding, crafting or otherwise obtaining one that reads close enough to a harvestable's name may have it exchanged with Diana Coman for that exact harvestable - at least during this current euloran month 5 of year 8.
[13:11] Diana Coman: so that there is now as well something to just find and play around with, a more lighthearted activity alongside the rest, for balance perhaps
[16:44] Felicia Solecrimp: I dont understand did I interrupt you ? Diana Coman
[16:45] Felicia Solecrimp: Yes I need to know what i want it for in order to what im going to do with linux
[16:45] Felicia Solecrimp: just finished my relational databases course just missing the workshops having trouble with github
[17:12] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, it's first your own thinking that you keep interrupting when jumping like that always in search of ...something new, something else, to pass on just as you found it and more linked by association than by something contributed as such. I wonder how do you see it serving you first of all anyhow? E.g. having heard now superficially of some new AI model, its name and country of provenance - what does this do for you? Merely keeping up with what people talk about may be a social activity but it doesn't really work that well on its own for technical topics.
[17:14] Diana Coman: and dunno, isn't it of more interest even to you to interact with people based on what you do rather than what is currently public talk?
[17:20] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp, as far as what to do with new knowledge, linux commands + databases make a good foundation for owning & operating a blog or other web infrastructure, rather than just typing into the box provided by someone you don't know on their terms
[17:24] Felicia Solecrimp: well i was just replying to the ai topic i havent talk about ai in a while actually but ive been more focused on learning how to program and using ai for answering search questions instead not really much thinking about it
[17:25] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5932 -- i'm up to needing ~85 min lbn for tiny basics and ~25 min lbn for non-basics. thus, i'm only really inclined to build smalls and ords of the basics these days.
[17:25] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-05 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5927 - but in other super-tinies, yesterday from a total of 24 tinies I pulled out 183 RF q5 and later 8167 RF q1 in single shots each using 20 LBN q11. again it started with a less than impressive small. dragged them all the way back home.
[17:26] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5942 -- congrats ! i've sat down for my own cft run, following a yield of 176k cfg q1 on an ord q2.
[17:26] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on the not-so-tiny tinies, then! For my part, I finally got some 1.1k cft q100+ from my long-ish tinkering run so I am back to gathering more cdg
[17:27] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, what's the lowest quality cftr you have for sale ?
[17:27] Raphael Nethersmell: s/cfg/cdg/
[17:29] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, q23 is currently lowest q cft I can sell. Interesting though on the different claim types, mind detailing what's the reasoning there?
[17:30] Raphael Nethersmell: q23 cft or cftr ?
[17:31] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, then possibly there is some disconnect as to what makes a meaningful reply, huh
[17:32] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, ah, that was cft but...it turns out that I have some cftr I can sell at q23 as well
[17:32] Felicia Solecrimp: ah i notice now what happen i skip some of the conversation
[17:32] Felicia Solecrimp: i found the pdf i would read it
[17:34] Raphael Nethersmell: i'd rather spend 25 lbn and get 1 tlc q5 for 54 shell than 85 lbn and get 1 cdg q80 for 48 shell. since I have some cft in stock, if I want cdg for cft, i'd rather use that or buy an ord bundle and gamble with that for the cdg.
[17:35] Diana Coman: well yes, skipping bits of a conversation is likely to break it for sure. On the pdf it certainly doesn't hurt to read it and especially its introductory part is general enough to give one some idea of the approach even without having to fully grasp the underlying models, hence why I linked it too.
[17:37] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, that makes sense on rare(r) resources vs basic but esp given the growing record of basic tinies giving back quite the bounty, I'm not sure I see why wouldn't one want to build them
[17:37] Raphael Nethersmell: the example above is just based on the latest attempt on a tiny cdg. I've not built a tiny basics with any regularity in the long long time. even so, the times I've used high q cdg, i wasn't ever getting cft .
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: I'm open to persuasion !
[17:38] Diana Coman: ah, basically like in crafting you are saying that too high q on the bundle ends up with very little output even if quite high q, sort of too concentrated?
[17:38] Diana Coman: and possibly/seemingly losing more because of the higher value per unit, I can see that
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: right now I need to do like 24h of exploring to build < 10 basics.
[17:38] Diana Coman: otoh lbn is sort of for free, heh
[17:39] Diana Coman: well yes, lack of lbn certainly means one won't build tinies but tbh when using a tool I'd rather build them all
[17:40] Diana Coman: you could ask a noob to make the bundles in principle, to use less lbn and build more but yeah, it's not that clear which is actually better
[17:40] Diana Coman: more likely a matter of what each player is aiming for specifically
[17:41] Raphael Nethersmell: my sample size is definitely small on the high q crafting, but another constraint there is losing out on some of the quality when needing to mix to fit in storage.
[17:41] Diana Coman: how do you mean losing out on some of the quality to fix in storage?
[17:41] Raphael Nethersmell: what does the tool have to do with it ? my thought is a q3 tiny is the same whether found barehanded or with a tool.
[17:42] Diana Coman: is it?
[17:42] Diana Coman: or rather: what is a q3 tiny?
[17:42] Raphael Nethersmell: q3 tiny enum.
[17:43] Raphael Nethersmell: my storage slots seem limited, so if I want to fit q[15-30] items, I'm gonna have to mix them.
[17:43] Diana Coman: the enum is certainly the same, as observed by...stacking, lol. But the claim, I'm not so sure. And more directly on point, the issue is that if I'm using a tool then I already paid that decay for that tiny so ditching it means a net loss quite clearly. If barehanded, whatever, the loss is time-wise though less clearly measured
[17:44] Diana Coman: yes, number of slots are limited but one can certainly keep (with a bit of moving stuff about, sure) at least one group high q and one group low q, if wanted (or whatever number of such groups, obviously)
[17:44] Raphael Nethersmell: well, that's a factor i'd not considered, so will now pay more attention and try it out.
[17:45] Diana Coman: this is how I still have q23 cft and cftr, lolz. Moved it out of the mixing storage and into a non-mixing one, while I mixed the higher q coming out of the latest run
[17:46] Diana Coman: and all the mixing in there is actually value-preserving overall, no loss
[17:46] Raphael Nethersmell: i'm chewing through a few hundy cftr q23, might buy from you after that's spent.
[17:46] Diana Coman: sure, no rush at all
[17:47] Raphael Nethersmell: in my experience only the 3rd carvern, eoj iii does the mixing automatically, the other 2 you'd have to mix in your own inventory.
[17:48] Diana Coman: in the new wild-growing items, I found a "micro" and a "clover" if anyone aims perhaps for two leaf clover or micro goat I suppose
[17:48] Diana Coman: though they seem to be decaying relatively quickly so not sure how long they last
[17:49] Diana Coman: ended up with a "mollusc of scones" too, in less than useful combinations
[17:50] Raphael Nethersmell: are these laying ont he ground or found via exploring ?
[17:50] Felicia Solecrimp: do according to the pdf means that the models have good memory ? because im not sure if they got senses to perceived the information and somehow i still dont understand neural networks so well
[17:51] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, they are lying on the ground, found some in secluded course of verve
[17:59] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5930 - this pile has grown to 1955 sb q1 and I'll raise the pay to 70%; in other words the job is now worth 631 shell.
[17:59] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-05 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: offering a transportation job of 1257 sb q1 from a small claim at x=-385 z=166 in PPP. sell 40% of them for me and do as you please with the rest. should take 5-10 trips for someone with higher capacities than me.
[18:00] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, when talking of "senses" and "memory" in the context of programming, note that these are not actual biological things as you have them, they are simply the equivalents in that context. Basically for a computer, all interfaces through which it receives new data are "senses", so any inputs qualify as "sensed"
[18:02] Diana Coman: neural networks are a type of algorithms for processing data in a manner that is exactly a very simplified abstraction of how the human brain is known to work (and by very simplified I mean *extremely* simplified, to the point that a medical professional wouldn't think much of real similarity remaining, lolz)
[18:03] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, I don't quite get why x trips rather than just drop-move it in one go or what's the issue there exactly?
[18:03] Felicia Solecrimp: yeah because i cant really think there is a way to create a biological output to machines yet i know there are computers who create cells and print them but they are really expensive like thousands of dollars
[18:04] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, see, this is where it goes haywire. Yes, there are such machines but no, they have just about ~nothing to do in this conversation yet, since they are an entirely different thing from what we were talking about...
[18:07] Diana Coman: more to the point is to consider what are memory/senses/thinking for you and what are they in a computer context, since these are the basic abstractions you need to get reasonably clear on if you are to make sense of anything using them
[18:08] Felicia Solecrimp: so how could i use a computer with a good memory ?
[18:09] Diana Coman: no, what is a computer's memory first of all? what makes it "good" (or not good)? How is it different and how is it similar to a human's memory?
[18:09] Diana Coman: and moreover: a computer's vs a program's?
[18:10] Felicia Solecrimp: i use my memory to learn new things even thou i might forget some in the process but thats how human memory works to keep some space and yes i think a program solves a individual problem right ?
[18:11] Diana Coman: for the log, the point of that paper is not really about memory but about abstracting useful models of "reality" as encountered and then using these models to inform effective action (or whether there even *is* such action possible at a given time) in that reality
[18:12] Felicia Solecrimp: can a computer have a lazy memory or is that attribute only for human memory ?
[18:13] Diana Coman: well, "individual problem" in a very wide sense, consider that any implementation of AI is a program and it certainly aims to be rather more generic than "an individual problem"
[18:13] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: for the required distance it'd be about 50 cycles of pickup-drop-move dragging (plus however many repeats for when the commands didn't actually succeed as they first appeared). since we don't yet have automated dragging, it may still be faster/easier to just make more round trips.
[18:14] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, that's the sort of question (on whether a computer's memory can be lazy) that is actually very useful when you explore what *could* be done. But you haven't yet figured out what the memory *is*, all you said was how you use it
[18:14] Diana Coman: you really need to get your notions way clearer and to stick to some actual definitions if you are to get anywhere
[18:15] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, I see. Possibly Felicia Solecrimp would help?
[18:15] Felicia Solecrimp: yes i still think there are some concepts i still dont grasp
[18:16] Diana Coman: so write these concepts down as you run into them and then go and read about each, further writing down as you find unknowns and keep at it, this is actually exactly how solid learning happens in the end. And yes, it can take initially quite a while and a lot of effort before you finally get to what you were trying to tackle in the first place directly
[18:17] Felicia Solecrimp: nice
[18:17] Felicia Solecrimp: thank you
[18:23] Vivian Sporepress: I've been out in the SB field actually looking for TPT which has been coming up in some small proportion. built 6 so far, all at a loss, but at least I can get the branches & training. no luck on finding more ordinaries lately.
[19:05] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#6002 - oops, mistyped the quantity 1555 as 1955 but the value math was right. now it's up to 2153 q1 so the job's worth 874 shell.
[19:05] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5930 - this pile has grown to 1955 sb q1 and I'll raise the pay to 70%; in other words the job is now worth 631 shell.
[19:06] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp is welcome to it but might be a bit spoiled from the last lucky transport run, and thought I'd open it to the other newbies if they're still active.
[22:59] Felicia Solecrimp: Vivian Sporepress doesnt like how much i charge haha
[23:38] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, how might the mechanics work for collaborating w/ n00bs on building me bundles ? afaiu, enums aren't spent when a bundle is made and bundles are made on claims that are already used, e.g. q0. thus, my thought is the straight forward way is to offer a premium for bundles, which the n00bs invest their own lbn into, I buy a stack at a time and then go ziggurating on claims I have active.
Day changed to 2026-07-07
[02:41] Felicia Solecrimp: Diana ComanI got a question based on your work with fractals have you ever heard of modular fractal dynamics on a lattice i got curious
[02:43] Felicia Solecrimp: Diana Coman is there any other favorite math topic for you involved in the game for further persue to evolve ? I know i dont know so much about the game but i want to learn more
[04:01] Felicia Solecrimp: making fractals seems really complicated
[08:45] Diana Coman: yeah, kind of more than heard of various topics indeed, one could probably tell quite easily simply from the related write-ups over several years, you know?
[08:47] Diana Coman: complex concepts are just that, complex concepts. The making though can be quite straightforward but as everywhere else, what makes sense for you depends on what you already know hence where you start from.
[08:52] Diana Coman: as to Maths topics, I never pursued anything "to evolve", huh. I always learnt things simply because I was interested in them, even in school, so no idea about evolving. Quite obviously, if you actually increase your active, productive knowledge in *any* direction, you are therefore by definition evolving, no need to worry more about it
[08:55] Diana Coman: sure, there are topics I really liked more than others but generally because they enabled something, whether doing or thinking. The hamiltonian algebra comes to mind but it's not something I'd suggest one to start with for sure.
[09:04] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, once again, what is it you actually want to *do*? As in are interested enough so you stick to it when it gets difficult and mean to evaluate and adjust if/when needed to keep going. Pick that and then simply focus on doing the next small step for it, learning what you need for it as you need it, it will anyway go deeper for the practice if nothing else.
[15:55] Felicia Solecrimp: okay ill try to stick to things that help me out it is just that some times i got curious about things i see and want to understand them more than the novelty itself
[15:55] Felicia Solecrimp: im focused on learning how to play the violin along Vivian Sporepress
[15:56] Felicia Solecrimp: and hopefully i sit down and learn what could do with programs on the computer that could also help my education and purposes
[16:04] Felicia Solecrimp: i will +
[16:13] Felicia Solecrimp: Have you learn deal with distractions ? Diana Coman
[16:40] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, being aware and using strategy, really. A combination of protecting one's time + attention (meaning: not allowing external distractions to intrude in the first place, so you don't even have to deal with them) and otherwise, when the damage of interruption is already done, negotiating as to what/if/how far/how soon/to what concrete stopping point to pursue it. In a sense it's like with little children when they see a toy in the shop and suddenly "want it" - if you get them to wait at least a couple of days rather than giving in on the spot, they'll be much better able to tell whether they actually want it.
[16:41] Diana Coman: only in this sort of instance, it's some part of your own self/mind that is the little child, that's all
[16:47] Felicia Solecrimp: interesting thank you awareness you know i was talking to Vivian Sporepress how come you can think what we are thinking ? like you got even a lot more awareness ? like the levels of how can someone upgrade their level of consioucness ?
[16:51] Diana Coman: oh, that's just modelling really. No idea on the part with levels of consciousness and the like, I never really got what people mean within that sort of paradigm really, for all that I read of it, it seems way too fuzzy to me to actually be meaningfully talked about.
[16:54] Diana Coman: basically when I understand well enough where you are coming from with something and how you reason about it in general, I have a good enough chance to model that same process so I can obtain the next step same as you do
[16:55] Diana Coman: anyone can do it just as well, within the exact same constraints: when they understand well enough to model it
[16:59] Felicia Solecrimp: modelling how can you define modelling ?
[17:09] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, modelling something means creating a simplified representation of it that captures what is relevant for the intended context/investigation/use and discards what is superfluous. Think perhaps of how architects make quite detailed models of things they mean to build, to see it, illustrate it, work out how the various parts make a whole when put together.
[17:39] Felicia Solecrimp: thats nice to see things from above i would like to be an observer
[20:33] Vivian Sporepress: found an Almost Readable Scribbled Elucubrations, might that be an... unstable chicken scribblings? decaying fast indeed
Day changed to 2026-07-08
[05:32] Vivian Sporepress: that one, which mentioned "of tinkering", had decayed from q45 down to 17 so I didn't wait for a trade but tried using it. it disappeared, and the only other effect I've noticed was an immediate -10 to -11 drop in sp, co, and gn (now recovering).
[05:37] Vivian Sporepress: however I also found another, of same name but description mentioning "of sifters". can I trade that one for a real sifter at 13 UTC today or shortly after, Diana Coman?
[07:53] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, they are all scribbled, it's indeed the description that matters. And you would need not just "of sifters" but "great sifter", eh?
[07:54] Diana Coman: otherwise it would be rather way too silly
[07:54] Diana Coman: apparently scribbles are not that that safe to eat!
[08:07] Diana Coman: tbf, the offer was for harvestables rather than skill items or indeed just any item whatsoever but I guess I can give to the first player to make an actual item name whatever that is, even a skill item. Only really the name, possibly missing "the" but not more than that, hence "great sifter" is fine but e.g. "great of sifters" is not.
[08:07] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Notices and Announcements) Monroe Quarterslit: New items spotted in the wild, with varying descriptions and unknown properties! Anyone finding, crafting or otherwise obtaining one that reads close enough to a harvestable's name may have it exchanged with Diana Coman for that exact harvestable - at least during this current euloran month 5 of year 8.
[08:59] Diana Coman: to help along, the decay slowed down some
[15:10] Vivian Sporepress: I see, 'twas too good to be true. and it already decayed to nothing anyway.
[15:13] Vivian Sporepress: even botted, my rate of finding these doesn't seem enough to cobble together anything especially if even singular/plural must match
[15:58] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, it's not as much about singular/plural, no, "great sifters" would be fine (though highly unlikely really, hence not bothered with it earlier)
[16:01] Diana Coman: anyways, something has to go into obtaining something else, so if it's not ECu, it will be at least some player time. Arguably players who want the thrill of finding stuff easily have now what to find and it eventually pays as well, simply a different route than the others.
[08:35] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, I'm making more cft even now but in any case, I have 200cft in storage at q19 currently, so ping me when you get back to PPP and we see
[21:14] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: I'm here at your storage
[23:14] Vivian Sporepress: I think there's really something funny going on vis-a-vis that peculiar lbn column at left edge ppp, http://ossasepia.com/2026/04/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Apr-2026/#5396 - I've seen similar effects in other near-deserted sectors now too
[23:14] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-04-20 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: I've seen that too on occasion, even among the cr in ppp from my old data. the newer client knowledge based map also shows a whole column of them at 40 unit spacing, all on their own near the left edge in ppp; especially odd since I don't recall it being me finding them, yet how would I have gotten close enough to see them all but not any actual claims nearby...
[23:16] Vivian Sporepress: I've certainly done 40-unit grid exploring runs so it seems possibly some kind of looking at the reflection of my own retina, as it were
[23:32] Vivian Sporepress: two smoking guns from knowledge/res_sect_kw.txt: in the first, there are some true lbn-spots within my 40-unit grid which covers x=-240..280 by z=-240..280. two jump out as unaligned with the grid, perhaps they were manual explores. then there's one at 0,0,0 - a suspicious y-value by itself but then there's a flotsam found in same sector at same x-z origin but y=12. then a column of 10 at left edge, way outside the grid and outside the normal sight horizon of anywhere I'd been, and exactly the same values as those previously noted in PPP.
[23:39] Vivian Sporepress: in the second I'd covered a larger grid and the ones at z=-320 and -360 appear legit, but again there's the suspicious all-zeros, this time shadowing a CDG at 0,91,0; I recall it and the -440,12,-79 popping up on the plot early in my exploration before I'd got anywhere near x=-440.
[23:45] Vivian Sporepress: doing a text search on that most peculiar -440.00;12.00;-79.00 hits LBN (and only LBN) in 8 sectors including PPP.
[23:46] Vivian Sporepress: that's out of 19 total sectors for which I have LBN knowledge entries.
[23:52] Vivian Sporepress: a similar but less popular one found by visual means: -400.00;0.00;40.00 LBN in 4 sectors including PPP
Day changed to 2026-07-02
[00:02] Vivian Sporepress: another somewhat more complex: -280.00;100.00;-320.00 shows as LBN in 3 sectors including PPP but CDG in sector (-1;0), yet -280.00;67.00;-320.00 is CDG in PPP. Apologies to bystanders for the log-dump, I wasn't expecting to turn up the further clues.
[00:07] Felicia Solecrimp: Diana Coman okay
[00:07] Felicia Solecrimp: Ive been reading thats what satisfied me at most to stop thinking about it
[08:02] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, it seems we didn't quite sync for the cft. Today I'll likely be around in the evening for a couple of hours, from 7pm utc, hopefully that works. Otherwise I guess the fallback time remains the usual on Monday since it's fixed
[08:08] Diana Coman: thanks for the lbn/resource data feedback, I noticed that there are indeed some wrong-sector placements, from what I can tell mostly happening at a sector switch (always the more troublesome point). Not quite sure yet as to what would be a cure for it that is not worse than the problem though. In principle at least I could look to enforce more strictly a clean slate clientside whenever the sector changes, perhaps.
[17:58] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: 7pm works. sector switch seems a plausible explanation, except isn't there a sector ID -> item ID parent-child relationship that would keep it clear even if some no-longer-visible items linger in the object cache?
[20:06] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, there is the hierarchical relationship, I guess an atomic check on that would be the most straightforward thing to add in order to address this. Seemed rather overkill for resource knowledge but most likely unavoidable longer-term anyhow
[21:06] Vivian Sporepress: ready when you are, Diana Coman
[21:08] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, I have 200 cft q19, q23 or q24, which one?
[21:08] Vivian Sporepress: ah, I'll stick with the q19
[21:10] Vivian Sporepress: tyvm
[21:10] Diana Coman: enjoy!
[21:11] Diana Coman: meanwhile my cft seems to keep pushing upwards quality wise, dunno if I should keep some lower q separate
[21:13] Diana Coman: the mixing storage is most useful but since they end up all sorts of quality, it's either a pain to keep them separate or everything ends up around the same quality point, mostly pushed up or down by the crafting outputs
[21:25] Vivian Sporepress: it's a sort of entropy for quality levels.
[21:25] Vivian Sporepress: I just got 130 nt q1 from a small followed by 1505 nt q1 from a tiny, go figure.
[21:26] Vivian Sporepress: the small cost more but at least returned more experience
Day changed to 2026-07-04
[07:53] Diana Coman: heh, that 1505 nt q1 must have been quite the tiny!
[08:07] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, talking of AI, there is actually a more promising direction than the most visible hype that you get "following" all the usual (aka most visible/pushed) channels - quite ditching in fact the focus on blind "prediction" by means of "what came before in a lot of data" and aiming instead to extract abstractions on which to base some form of inferrence of outcome. It's only just getting the usual ton of funding so it remains to be seen how it's actually done, as always, but it's certainly a more promising direction and it seems to be getting a ton of funding currently too so it's quite likely to be heard of some more in the not so distant future.
[08:17] Diana Coman: for completeness if we are at it, there were earlier attempts for some form of machine learning aimed at extracting essential features to generate rather than merely predict, e.g. Ha and Schmidhuber's "World Models" from 2018 (https://arxiv.org/pdf/1803.10122) but most likely it's a more complex problem than the blind prediction and so it was the prediction that got pushed instead. Possibly the generative comes next, finally.
Day changed to 2026-07-05
[20:41] Vivian Sporepress: offering a transportation job of 1257 sb q1 from a small claim at x=-385 z=166 in PPP. sell 40% of them for me and do as you please with the rest. should take 5-10 trips for someone with higher capacities than me.
[20:49] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: for added confusion of course, anything that produces lots of output has been called "generative" and the process of predicting the next token based on model parameters + context tokens has been called "inference". and I've heard claims that LLMs have in fact learned essential features, under the right conditions (in particular, lower parameter counts so that overfitting just isn't possible).
[22:23] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5927 - but in other super-tinies, yesterday from a total of 24 tinies I pulled out 183 RF q5 and later 8167 RF q1 in single shots each using 20 LBN q11. again it started with a less than impressive small. dragged them all the way back home.
[22:23] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-04 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: heh, that 1505 nt q1 must have been quite the tiny!
Day changed to 2026-07-06
[01:32] Felicia Solecrimp: there is anew open source model from portugal called amalia
[01:34] Felicia Solecrimp: I heard that they are using with healthcare and also i was talking with the central america headquarteers of microsoft and they are using quantum computers and a lot of copilot in their industries i dont know why but she was curious on me she stop me on my way to the bathroom
[01:37] Felicia Solecrimp: is there like any other linux programs that are handy to learn to use ?
[02:21] Felicia Solecrimp: happy 5 of july spam day
[08:35] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, there is *always* something new like that. The time when there was value in merely finding out what new things are around is long passed, it was something like my parent's generation at best. Nowadays the only real value is exactly in a useful, reliable and known *filtering* of new, which really works best if one does it based on what they are actually, provably and consistently *working on/with*. So yes, of course "AI" is used and will be increasingly used everywhere, for various definitions of AI. Fwiw recommendation and expert systems (esp in healthcare) have been used even before they were called AI
[08:35] Diana Coman: similarly, given that microsoft has been pushing its own research on quantum computing, ofc they "are using it"
[08:36] Diana Coman: and finally, do realise that those in the job of exactly creating hype will forever "be interested" in pushing whatever they are pushing at that time on you wherever they can catch you
[08:37] Diana Coman: unless you really mean to go and work in that department/company/whatever, it really is still noise for you
[08:38] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on the not-so-tiny tinies, then! For my part, I finally got some 1.1k cft q100+ from my long-ish tinkering run so I am back to gathering more cdg
[08:44] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, on programs that are handy to learn to use - what are you going to use them *for*? Generally like that, I'd say getting used to command line utilities and combining them. And if you need something narrower, possibly awk esp via its original manual since it is exactly made to get one started quickly and with rather useful principles, at that. But again, the important thing is what you are trying to actually do and keep doing.
[08:49] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, note perhaps that this sort of "oh, I found there is x and there is y and also z" without any real deeper engagement or use of x,y,z is really just gossip fundamentally and otherwise the mental equivalent of exactly that distraction/interrupt me every two seconds to talk to me that you were noticing as not helpful
[08:50] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-06-20 (Eulora 2) Felicia Solecrimp: sorry for writing again by clumps i forgot to write together also i can actually learn but there is no motivation at home just distraction my mom likes to interrupt me every two seconds to talk to me in order to concentrate i need silence what im lacking from vivians home making a workable place will be the challenge
[08:52] Diana Coman: I get it, you want to interact and find things interesting and all that, which is very good, yes, only it still only ever really gets anywhere if you focus on doing something first and only then talking about that/from that
[13:06] Diana Coman: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/06/Notices-and-Announcements-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#270 - confirming this.
[13:06] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Notices and Announcements) Monroe Quarterslit: New items spotted in the wild, with varying descriptions and unknown properties! Anyone finding, crafting or otherwise obtaining one that reads close enough to a harvestable's name may have it exchanged with Diana Coman for that exact harvestable - at least during this current euloran month 5 of year 8.
[13:11] Diana Coman: so that there is now as well something to just find and play around with, a more lighthearted activity alongside the rest, for balance perhaps
[16:44] Felicia Solecrimp: I dont understand did I interrupt you ? Diana Coman
[16:45] Felicia Solecrimp: Yes I need to know what i want it for in order to what im going to do with linux
[16:45] Felicia Solecrimp: just finished my relational databases course just missing the workshops having trouble with github
[17:12] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, it's first your own thinking that you keep interrupting when jumping like that always in search of ...something new, something else, to pass on just as you found it and more linked by association than by something contributed as such. I wonder how do you see it serving you first of all anyhow? E.g. having heard now superficially of some new AI model, its name and country of provenance - what does this do for you? Merely keeping up with what people talk about may be a social activity but it doesn't really work that well on its own for technical topics.
[17:14] Diana Coman: and dunno, isn't it of more interest even to you to interact with people based on what you do rather than what is currently public talk?
[17:20] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp, as far as what to do with new knowledge, linux commands + databases make a good foundation for owning & operating a blog or other web infrastructure, rather than just typing into the box provided by someone you don't know on their terms
[17:24] Felicia Solecrimp: well i was just replying to the ai topic i havent talk about ai in a while actually but ive been more focused on learning how to program and using ai for answering search questions instead not really much thinking about it
[17:25] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5932 -- i'm up to needing ~85 min lbn for tiny basics and ~25 min lbn for non-basics. thus, i'm only really inclined to build smalls and ords of the basics these days.
[17:25] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-05 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5927 - but in other super-tinies, yesterday from a total of 24 tinies I pulled out 183 RF q5 and later 8167 RF q1 in single shots each using 20 LBN q11. again it started with a less than impressive small. dragged them all the way back home.
[17:26] Raphael Nethersmell: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5942 -- congrats ! i've sat down for my own cft run, following a yield of 176k cfg q1 on an ord q2.
[17:26] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, congrats on the not-so-tiny tinies, then! For my part, I finally got some 1.1k cft q100+ from my long-ish tinkering run so I am back to gathering more cdg
[17:27] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, what's the lowest quality cftr you have for sale ?
[17:27] Raphael Nethersmell: s/cfg/cdg/
[17:29] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, q23 is currently lowest q cft I can sell. Interesting though on the different claim types, mind detailing what's the reasoning there?
[17:30] Raphael Nethersmell: q23 cft or cftr ?
[17:31] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, then possibly there is some disconnect as to what makes a meaningful reply, huh
[17:32] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, ah, that was cft but...it turns out that I have some cftr I can sell at q23 as well
[17:32] Felicia Solecrimp: ah i notice now what happen i skip some of the conversation
[17:32] Felicia Solecrimp: i found the pdf i would read it
[17:34] Raphael Nethersmell: i'd rather spend 25 lbn and get 1 tlc q5 for 54 shell than 85 lbn and get 1 cdg q80 for 48 shell. since I have some cft in stock, if I want cdg for cft, i'd rather use that or buy an ord bundle and gamble with that for the cdg.
[17:35] Diana Coman: well yes, skipping bits of a conversation is likely to break it for sure. On the pdf it certainly doesn't hurt to read it and especially its introductory part is general enough to give one some idea of the approach even without having to fully grasp the underlying models, hence why I linked it too.
[17:37] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, that makes sense on rare(r) resources vs basic but esp given the growing record of basic tinies giving back quite the bounty, I'm not sure I see why wouldn't one want to build them
[17:37] Raphael Nethersmell: the example above is just based on the latest attempt on a tiny cdg. I've not built a tiny basics with any regularity in the long long time. even so, the times I've used high q cdg, i wasn't ever getting cft .
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: I'm open to persuasion !
[17:38] Diana Coman: ah, basically like in crafting you are saying that too high q on the bundle ends up with very little output even if quite high q, sort of too concentrated?
[17:38] Diana Coman: and possibly/seemingly losing more because of the higher value per unit, I can see that
[17:38] Raphael Nethersmell: right now I need to do like 24h of exploring to build < 10 basics.
[17:38] Diana Coman: otoh lbn is sort of for free, heh
[17:39] Diana Coman: well yes, lack of lbn certainly means one won't build tinies but tbh when using a tool I'd rather build them all
[17:40] Diana Coman: you could ask a noob to make the bundles in principle, to use less lbn and build more but yeah, it's not that clear which is actually better
[17:40] Diana Coman: more likely a matter of what each player is aiming for specifically
[17:41] Raphael Nethersmell: my sample size is definitely small on the high q crafting, but another constraint there is losing out on some of the quality when needing to mix to fit in storage.
[17:41] Diana Coman: how do you mean losing out on some of the quality to fix in storage?
[17:41] Raphael Nethersmell: what does the tool have to do with it ? my thought is a q3 tiny is the same whether found barehanded or with a tool.
[17:42] Diana Coman: is it?
[17:42] Diana Coman: or rather: what is a q3 tiny?
[17:42] Raphael Nethersmell: q3 tiny enum.
[17:43] Raphael Nethersmell: my storage slots seem limited, so if I want to fit q[15-30] items, I'm gonna have to mix them.
[17:43] Diana Coman: the enum is certainly the same, as observed by...stacking, lol. But the claim, I'm not so sure. And more directly on point, the issue is that if I'm using a tool then I already paid that decay for that tiny so ditching it means a net loss quite clearly. If barehanded, whatever, the loss is time-wise though less clearly measured
[17:44] Diana Coman: yes, number of slots are limited but one can certainly keep (with a bit of moving stuff about, sure) at least one group high q and one group low q, if wanted (or whatever number of such groups, obviously)
[17:44] Raphael Nethersmell: well, that's a factor i'd not considered, so will now pay more attention and try it out.
[17:45] Diana Coman: this is how I still have q23 cft and cftr, lolz. Moved it out of the mixing storage and into a non-mixing one, while I mixed the higher q coming out of the latest run
[17:46] Diana Coman: and all the mixing in there is actually value-preserving overall, no loss
[17:46] Raphael Nethersmell: i'm chewing through a few hundy cftr q23, might buy from you after that's spent.
[17:46] Diana Coman: sure, no rush at all
[17:47] Raphael Nethersmell: in my experience only the 3rd carvern, eoj iii does the mixing automatically, the other 2 you'd have to mix in your own inventory.
[17:48] Diana Coman: in the new wild-growing items, I found a "micro" and a "clover" if anyone aims perhaps for two leaf clover or micro goat I suppose
[17:48] Diana Coman: though they seem to be decaying relatively quickly so not sure how long they last
[17:49] Diana Coman: ended up with a "mollusc of scones" too, in less than useful combinations
[17:50] Raphael Nethersmell: are these laying ont he ground or found via exploring ?
[17:50] Felicia Solecrimp: do according to the pdf means that the models have good memory ? because im not sure if they got senses to perceived the information and somehow i still dont understand neural networks so well
[17:51] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, they are lying on the ground, found some in secluded course of verve
[17:59] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5930 - this pile has grown to 1955 sb q1 and I'll raise the pay to 70%; in other words the job is now worth 631 shell.
[17:59] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-05 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: offering a transportation job of 1257 sb q1 from a small claim at x=-385 z=166 in PPP. sell 40% of them for me and do as you please with the rest. should take 5-10 trips for someone with higher capacities than me.
[18:00] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, when talking of "senses" and "memory" in the context of programming, note that these are not actual biological things as you have them, they are simply the equivalents in that context. Basically for a computer, all interfaces through which it receives new data are "senses", so any inputs qualify as "sensed"
[18:02] Diana Coman: neural networks are a type of algorithms for processing data in a manner that is exactly a very simplified abstraction of how the human brain is known to work (and by very simplified I mean *extremely* simplified, to the point that a medical professional wouldn't think much of real similarity remaining, lolz)
[18:03] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, I don't quite get why x trips rather than just drop-move it in one go or what's the issue there exactly?
[18:03] Felicia Solecrimp: yeah because i cant really think there is a way to create a biological output to machines yet i know there are computers who create cells and print them but they are really expensive like thousands of dollars
[18:04] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, see, this is where it goes haywire. Yes, there are such machines but no, they have just about ~nothing to do in this conversation yet, since they are an entirely different thing from what we were talking about...
[18:07] Diana Coman: more to the point is to consider what are memory/senses/thinking for you and what are they in a computer context, since these are the basic abstractions you need to get reasonably clear on if you are to make sense of anything using them
[18:08] Felicia Solecrimp: so how could i use a computer with a good memory ?
[18:09] Diana Coman: no, what is a computer's memory first of all? what makes it "good" (or not good)? How is it different and how is it similar to a human's memory?
[18:09] Diana Coman: and moreover: a computer's vs a program's?
[18:10] Felicia Solecrimp: i use my memory to learn new things even thou i might forget some in the process but thats how human memory works to keep some space and yes i think a program solves a individual problem right ?
[18:11] Diana Coman: for the log, the point of that paper is not really about memory but about abstracting useful models of "reality" as encountered and then using these models to inform effective action (or whether there even *is* such action possible at a given time) in that reality
[18:12] Felicia Solecrimp: can a computer have a lazy memory or is that attribute only for human memory ?
[18:13] Diana Coman: well, "individual problem" in a very wide sense, consider that any implementation of AI is a program and it certainly aims to be rather more generic than "an individual problem"
[18:13] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: for the required distance it'd be about 50 cycles of pickup-drop-move dragging (plus however many repeats for when the commands didn't actually succeed as they first appeared). since we don't yet have automated dragging, it may still be faster/easier to just make more round trips.
[18:14] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, that's the sort of question (on whether a computer's memory can be lazy) that is actually very useful when you explore what *could* be done. But you haven't yet figured out what the memory *is*, all you said was how you use it
[18:14] Diana Coman: you really need to get your notions way clearer and to stick to some actual definitions if you are to get anywhere
[18:15] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, I see. Possibly Felicia Solecrimp would help?
[18:15] Felicia Solecrimp: yes i still think there are some concepts i still dont grasp
[18:16] Diana Coman: so write these concepts down as you run into them and then go and read about each, further writing down as you find unknowns and keep at it, this is actually exactly how solid learning happens in the end. And yes, it can take initially quite a while and a lot of effort before you finally get to what you were trying to tackle in the first place directly
[18:17] Felicia Solecrimp: nice
[18:17] Felicia Solecrimp: thank you
[18:23] Vivian Sporepress: I've been out in the SB field actually looking for TPT which has been coming up in some small proportion. built 6 so far, all at a loss, but at least I can get the branches & training. no luck on finding more ordinaries lately.
[19:05] Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#6002 - oops, mistyped the quantity 1555 as 1955 but the value math was right. now it's up to 2153 q1 so the job's worth 874 shell.
[19:05] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Eulora 2) Vivian Sporepress: http://ossasepia.com/2026/07/01/Eulora-2-Logs-for-Jul-2026/#5930 - this pile has grown to 1955 sb q1 and I'll raise the pay to 70%; in other words the job is now worth 631 shell.
[19:06] Vivian Sporepress: Felicia Solecrimp is welcome to it but might be a bit spoiled from the last lucky transport run, and thought I'd open it to the other newbies if they're still active.
[22:59] Felicia Solecrimp: Vivian Sporepress doesnt like how much i charge haha
[23:38] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, how might the mechanics work for collaborating w/ n00bs on building me bundles ? afaiu, enums aren't spent when a bundle is made and bundles are made on claims that are already used, e.g. q0. thus, my thought is the straight forward way is to offer a premium for bundles, which the n00bs invest their own lbn into, I buy a stack at a time and then go ziggurating on claims I have active.
Day changed to 2026-07-07
[02:41] Felicia Solecrimp: Diana ComanI got a question based on your work with fractals have you ever heard of modular fractal dynamics on a lattice i got curious
[02:43] Felicia Solecrimp: Diana Coman is there any other favorite math topic for you involved in the game for further persue to evolve ? I know i dont know so much about the game but i want to learn more
[04:01] Felicia Solecrimp: making fractals seems really complicated
[08:45] Diana Coman: yeah, kind of more than heard of various topics indeed, one could probably tell quite easily simply from the related write-ups over several years, you know?
[08:47] Diana Coman: complex concepts are just that, complex concepts. The making though can be quite straightforward but as everywhere else, what makes sense for you depends on what you already know hence where you start from.
[08:52] Diana Coman: as to Maths topics, I never pursued anything "to evolve", huh. I always learnt things simply because I was interested in them, even in school, so no idea about evolving. Quite obviously, if you actually increase your active, productive knowledge in *any* direction, you are therefore by definition evolving, no need to worry more about it
[08:55] Diana Coman: sure, there are topics I really liked more than others but generally because they enabled something, whether doing or thinking. The hamiltonian algebra comes to mind but it's not something I'd suggest one to start with for sure.
[09:04] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, once again, what is it you actually want to *do*? As in are interested enough so you stick to it when it gets difficult and mean to evaluate and adjust if/when needed to keep going. Pick that and then simply focus on doing the next small step for it, learning what you need for it as you need it, it will anyway go deeper for the practice if nothing else.
[15:55] Felicia Solecrimp: okay ill try to stick to things that help me out it is just that some times i got curious about things i see and want to understand them more than the novelty itself
[15:55] Felicia Solecrimp: im focused on learning how to play the violin along Vivian Sporepress
[15:56] Felicia Solecrimp: and hopefully i sit down and learn what could do with programs on the computer that could also help my education and purposes
[16:04] Felicia Solecrimp: i will +
[16:13] Felicia Solecrimp: Have you learn deal with distractions ? Diana Coman
[16:40] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, being aware and using strategy, really. A combination of protecting one's time + attention (meaning: not allowing external distractions to intrude in the first place, so you don't even have to deal with them) and otherwise, when the damage of interruption is already done, negotiating as to what/if/how far/how soon/to what concrete stopping point to pursue it. In a sense it's like with little children when they see a toy in the shop and suddenly "want it" - if you get them to wait at least a couple of days rather than giving in on the spot, they'll be much better able to tell whether they actually want it.
[16:41] Diana Coman: only in this sort of instance, it's some part of your own self/mind that is the little child, that's all
[16:47] Felicia Solecrimp: interesting thank you awareness you know i was talking to Vivian Sporepress how come you can think what we are thinking ? like you got even a lot more awareness ? like the levels of how can someone upgrade their level of consioucness ?
[16:51] Diana Coman: oh, that's just modelling really. No idea on the part with levels of consciousness and the like, I never really got what people mean within that sort of paradigm really, for all that I read of it, it seems way too fuzzy to me to actually be meaningfully talked about.
[16:54] Diana Coman: basically when I understand well enough where you are coming from with something and how you reason about it in general, I have a good enough chance to model that same process so I can obtain the next step same as you do
[16:55] Diana Coman: anyone can do it just as well, within the exact same constraints: when they understand well enough to model it
[16:59] Felicia Solecrimp: modelling how can you define modelling ?
[17:09] Diana Coman: Felicia Solecrimp, modelling something means creating a simplified representation of it that captures what is relevant for the intended context/investigation/use and discards what is superfluous. Think perhaps of how architects make quite detailed models of things they mean to build, to see it, illustrate it, work out how the various parts make a whole when put together.
[17:39] Felicia Solecrimp: thats nice to see things from above i would like to be an observer
[20:33] Vivian Sporepress: found an Almost Readable Scribbled Elucubrations, might that be an... unstable chicken scribblings? decaying fast indeed
Day changed to 2026-07-08
[05:32] Vivian Sporepress: that one, which mentioned "of tinkering", had decayed from q45 down to 17 so I didn't wait for a trade but tried using it. it disappeared, and the only other effect I've noticed was an immediate -10 to -11 drop in sp, co, and gn (now recovering).
[05:37] Vivian Sporepress: however I also found another, of same name but description mentioning "of sifters". can I trade that one for a real sifter at 13 UTC today or shortly after, Diana Coman?
[07:53] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, they are all scribbled, it's indeed the description that matters. And you would need not just "of sifters" but "great sifter", eh?
[07:54] Diana Coman: otherwise it would be rather way too silly
[07:54] Diana Coman: apparently scribbles are not that that safe to eat!
[08:07] Diana Coman: tbf, the offer was for harvestables rather than skill items or indeed just any item whatsoever but I guess I can give to the first player to make an actual item name whatever that is, even a skill item. Only really the name, possibly missing "the" but not more than that, hence "great sifter" is fine but e.g. "great of sifters" is not.
[08:07] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-07-06 (Notices and Announcements) Monroe Quarterslit: New items spotted in the wild, with varying descriptions and unknown properties! Anyone finding, crafting or otherwise obtaining one that reads close enough to a harvestable's name may have it exchanged with Diana Coman for that exact harvestable - at least during this current euloran month 5 of year 8.
[08:59] Diana Coman: to help along, the decay slowed down some
[15:10] Vivian Sporepress: I see, 'twas too good to be true. and it already decayed to nothing anyway.
[15:13] Vivian Sporepress: even botted, my rate of finding these doesn't seem enough to cobble together anything especially if even singular/plural must match
[15:58] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, it's not as much about singular/plural, no, "great sifters" would be fine (though highly unlikely really, hence not bothered with it earlier)
[16:01] Diana Coman: anyways, something has to go into obtaining something else, so if it's not ECu, it will be at least some player time. Arguably players who want the thrill of finding stuff easily have now what to find and it eventually pays as well, simply a different route than the others.