| feedbot: | http://trilema.com/2020/the-peaks-of-the-day/ << Trilema -- The peaks of the day | [10:41] |
| feedbot: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/22/silvery-flesh-on-twisting-bones-2nd-parade-of-hopefuls/ << Ossa Sepia -- Silvery Flesh on Twisting Bones: 2nd Parade of Hopefuls | [13:37] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: don't use that old selection mechanism with # as it's not working properly - what gets selected (if anything) depends on the browser (+it requires javascript anyway...); there's a better way, as described here: http://trilema.com/2019/proper-html-linking-the-crisis-the-solution-the-resolution-conclusion/ | [16:33] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, will do, thanks | [16:34] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, average people tend to be bad at ~everything,not only poker, lol | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | so if you only ever do the "run to be better than them", it's not much effort probably, no | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | nor much running, whatever the running might be about. | [16:37] |
| diana_coman: | as eulora's motd insists: your worst enemy always slept in the same bed as you. | [16:38] |
| jfw: | the JS selector reminds me, billymg: I signed the two patches that seemed settled, in http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/mp-wp/ ; are they suitable for you as is? | [16:39] |
| jfw: | (for further context, that means the first two from http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/2020/selection-and-other-sundries-for-mp-wp/ ) | [16:40] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, kinda crazy that half of people are even worse than average! And yea, poker very much allowed me to just be good-enough; not have to grow | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: well, that's if you credit a gauss curve to start with; can get even worse otherwise, heh | [16:47] |
| cruciform: | reckon competence is pareto? | [16:47] |
| diana_coman: | I'd be rather hard pressed to find evident it isn't; but I admit I haven't really bothered much to fit a curve to anything | [16:48] |
| cruciform: | it certainly holds for poker winnings: a few players make almost all the money | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | sure, in school grades at any exam will follow gauss (unless cheating) but competence is a different thing | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | evidence* not evident | [16:48] |
| diana_coman: | rather as expected re the few players, indeed. | [16:49] |
| cruciform: | yea, I was trying to find a term other than "IQ", since I gather that's bullshit | [16:49] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: you know, MP is right re that article being for sure the better ref (and possibly of more interest to you too). | [16:51] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: how's the health insurance quest going? | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: what's next on your list now that the 2 articles are done and published? | [16:53] |
| jfw: | diana_coman: you know just what to ask about that wouldn't have been started yet! | [16:53] |
| diana_coman: | true, I do :P | [16:54] |
| jfw: | so no, not started yet. | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | needs a new battery to start ? | [16:55] |
| diana_coman: | jfw: you know, it's...Wednesday, lolz. | [16:55] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, I've mostly got my head round mathematical induction today - I never got the "assume n=k is true" bit (the... induction, lol): "can't just assume things in maths!"; didn't get that it's about proving that IF n=k holds, k+1 does, too | [16:56] |
| jfw: | so it is. Maybe just some corrosion to clean off the contacts. | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: aha, that's the point, proving the first step and then basically the fact that it's a chain | [16:57] |
| cruciform: | I've had enough Knuth for a bit, so gonna work on reading the logs; writing an article on "What is YH?" | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | "2 letters!" | [16:58] |
| cruciform: | lol | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, sounds like a reasonably balanced...diet; can even add the cheese twists then! | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | (and no, nothing bad with cheese twists in general, except ahem, taste one day some freshly made ones with sourdough too and then see if those M&S ones are all that great anymore, that was all) | [16:59] |
| cruciform: | inb8 Google Translate http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/23/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Apr-2020#1025016 | [17:00] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-04-22 16:51:02 diana_coman: cruciform: you know, MP is right re that article being for sure the better ref (and possibly of more interest to you too). | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | well, can always add "learn a language" to the list, why not | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | maybe I should do the Romanian Thursdays, huh | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | one different language every day and that will surely take care of all and any conversation, too! | [17:01] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, in other unfinished derping, I did... TWO Greek lessons with my dad before giving up | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | well, as I don't know your dad, I can't evaluate in any way what two lessons mean in that context | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: why did you do them to start with? | [17:03] |
| cruciform: | I wanted to cure my ESL-ness, decided I could spend time with my dad too by learning Latin/Greek; chose Greek coz it's harder :p | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | eh, with languages it gets easier after the 10th or so (as I've been helpfully told when I was a kid - but it's true!) | [17:05] |
| cruciform: | got to conjugating my first verb (λυο τας πεδασ), and... that was a wrap | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | according to MP though it's women you want to spend time with to learn languages not own dad; maybe that's why it lasted for only 2 lessons, lol | [17:06] |
| cruciform: | Aha, I can recall reading that in the logs! | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | there I can't advise, but otherwise from practical experience the way to learn a language is to need it as in not have any other choice of being understood/understanding anything; works wonders! | [17:08] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, guess I should move to Ancient Greece! | [17:08] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: wouldn't that be good, too! | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | but could have just asked dad to not reply in/to anything other than that; and then see how it goes, lol. | [17:10] |
| cruciform: | provided it's not Athens, I guess http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/ | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | well, choose your year carefully; and everything else you get to choose, for that matter, I suppose. | [17:11] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, still wouldn't solve the him-not-being-a-cute-female-tutor problem | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | can't solve it all, indeed | [17:11] |
| cruciform: | I'm a little hesitant to pop http://trilema.com/2012/cum-devii-un-jucator-de-poker-bun/ into Google Translate | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, unlikely to help much | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | so let it itch, what | [17:13] |
| cruciform: | Not sure how helpful it'd be to find a Romanian to translate it; would probably produce some lolz equity, at any rate | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | it's one of the most straightforward articles on trilema actually ; so it might work but provided you find not-an-idiot, what can I say. | [17:19] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, that's the problem - I know quite a few Romanian gamblers; not-idiot is the tricky part | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | heh, as always | [17:21] |
| cruciform: | Hang on, I've read this before! http://trilema.com/2015/how-to-be-good-at-poker/ | [17:26] |
| cruciform: | I meant to annotate it ages ago, but never got round to it | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, so it is actually translated already, cool | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | might as well reply then to the comment and add the link | [17:29] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, on it! also glad that I don't have to talk to any Romanian gamblers! | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, are they any worse than generic not-good-gamblers? | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | (genuinely curious, not a loaded question) | [17:30] |
| cruciform: | they're renowned for being particularly miserable, ornery and nitty | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | sounds quite believable | [17:31] |
| cruciform: | In fact, I've only EVER seen them smile when someone they don't like is losing (not when they're winning, even) | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | it has a name!!! it's called "sa moara capra vecinului" (may the neighbour's goat die!) | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | there is a whole set of layers to that, it's not by accident | [17:32] |
| cruciform: | would you mind explaining the idiom? | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: sure; but where to start from so it makes sense to you, hm; do you know how rural communities work esp re figuring out one's own worth ? | [17:36] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, how much livestock one owns? | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | no, not at all | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | huh, look, for the short version I did already even say it on...trilema, lolz, here: http://trilema.com/2019/derpy-sluttyev-or-how-shall-i-call-this/#comment-130373 | [17:38] |
| cruciform: | ah, so it's "no one else is doing better than I, so I'm great"? | [17:39] |
| diana_coman: | re rural community though - it's basically through direct and continuous comparison of visible assets; in Ro the main part used to be land (because agriculture) but otherwise everything about the others' house, so yeah, nobody has taller/bigger house than mine/happier and bigger goat than mine, hence I'm ...the greatest | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | not even "great", it doesn't exist as such, it's about the greatest | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | and sure, easier to kill the neighbour's goat than to get your own (at least from some perspective) | [17:40] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: but you can link it back to "being better than the average player", see? | [17:41] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, still here; chewing through it | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | basically in a proper rural community, there is a very visible and easily measured hierarchy anyway; and the least capable ones that get bitter will tend to go this way - since they can't (or internalised that they can't) get ahead, then focus on keeping the others behind (so that they can get ahead, sort of thing) | [17:45] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, sounds very socialist | [17:46] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, how is that? | [17:46] |
| cruciform: | well, given that humans are guassian AT LEAST, those that *can't* want to lower the bar; bring those that *can* down to their level/pretend equality | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: how do you link that to socialism though? | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | no, it's not pretend to equality | [17:47] |
| diana_coman: | it's very much hierarchy and getting ahead, nothing to do with equality; they are not aiming to be equal to the neighbour, not at all | [17:48] |
| cruciform: | I can't have a goat like my neighbour does; I'll kill his and we can be equal | [17:48] |
| diana_coman: | neah; they want the neighbour to fail and the more he fails, the better, it's about being *better than* the neighbour, not equal | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | and even more/deeper in the end - about the fact that if the neighbour fails, then own fail is vindicated aka "see, I told you you'd fail" | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | it's the lazy/incompetent's form of "cut-throat competition" really: he'll win by holding everyone back. | [17:51] |
| cruciform: | isn't that similar to the socialist mindset? lowering the bar so everyone can "compete"? | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | or whatever, insecure I suppose, in a more generous light | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: you are mixing there bits and pieces; this whole rural stuff comes from way before socialism/communism | [17:52] |
| cruciform: | diana_coman, yea; it's been a long day - induction has worn out my powers of deduction | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | sure, there is easily an added strata there because in socialism/communism the "getting ahead" in the party hierachy tends to work more on those lines than on competence, but it's another thing | [17:53] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha; it's also not the sort of proof-by-induction problem ! | [17:54] |
| cruciform: | well, unless one ties all his neighbour's goats together and pushes the first one off the mountain | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | funnily enough, despite the idiom, it's more often cows and sheep rather than goats that people used to have, but anyways | [17:55] |
| diana_coman: | also, you see, the whole satisfaction is in the neighbour's fail, preferably without a (visible) helping hand | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | eh, the intricacies of petty bitterness | [17:56] |
| diana_coman: | not worth all that much thinking of it really | [17:56] |
| cruciform: | it's been very instructive, thanks! | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | np | [17:57] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: out of curiosity, what age group are those goat-haters you know? | [17:57] |
| cruciform: | I've never asked 'em, and their dour countenance might make 'em look older, but I'd guess 31-45 | [17:58] |
| cruciform: | no very young or very old | [17:59] |
| cruciform: | (there are loads of young Romanian staff at casinos, though) | [17:59] |
| diana_coman: | huh, I expected even younger (not very old because they wouldn't be there, yeah); possibly they had to take the time to accumulate that bitterness and get convinced enough they can't do anything other than the goat-hating, perhaps. | [18:00] |
| cruciform: | I'd imagine young Romanians wouldn't have had time to build up capital to gamble with? | [18:00] |
| diana_coman: | I have sudden trouble imagining "Romanians" and "building capital" in the same sentence, lol | [18:01] |
| cruciform: | though, I'm not sure Romania is particularly poorer than anywhere else in Europe | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | perhaps; I don't really know about the gambling world. | [18:01] |
| diana_coman: | well, those you find here are certainly not the poorest, not even by far | [18:02] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, they gloriously keep alive the goat-hating tradition, what can I say. | [18:03] |
| cruciform: | well, given that the two I'm most familiar with are MP and yourself, that's true! | [18:03] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha, you just said you knew loads of Romanians around the casinos, what | [18:03] |
| cruciform: | I know their faces; not much more - they tend to hang out exclusively with each other | [18:04] |
| diana_coman: | but no, seriously - no idea if you know for reals what dirt-poor means, but ...it exists; it's true that it's not the sort of sordid inner-city-poverty (mainly because of no city) but still. | [18:05] |
| diana_coman: | sure, it exists in other parts of Europe too, there is that | [18:06] |
| cruciform: | I saw something like it in Serbia - people living in an abondoned... hospital, I think it was? | [18:06] |
| diana_coman: | (and probably it'll grow, too) | [18:06] |
| cruciform: | I'm really curious to see just how fucked the economy is over the next year or so | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | the thing is - getting on a plane already requires *some* resources ; even if they may be borrowed - having who to borrow them from is a resource too and so on. | [18:08] |
| diana_coman: | cruciform: ahaha; your curiosity shall be fully satisfied, I'm quite sure; but do mind what you wish for! | [18:08] |
| cruciform: | lol, true! | [18:09] |
| cruciform: | I'd imagine things like gambling will take quite a hit? | [18:09] |
| diana_coman: | re gambling I have no idea really (as I said, it's a world I don't know much about so can't really comment on it either) | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | and I'd say it's not gambling per se that will take any hit - it's possibly though what you know as gambling aka those specific casinos | [18:10] |
| diana_coman: | like with everything else | [18:11] |
| cruciform: | Poker buddies are worried about their uninsured deposits at said casinos, right now | [18:11] |
| diana_coman: | usually the times of trouble simply show what was just pretense (which falls) and what not (which stands, though it might not be in the open, sure) | [18:13] |
| diana_coman: | eh, and the insurance will do what? lol | [18:13] |
| cruciform: | well, here's to standing! | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | cheers! | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, I'll call it a day too, good night | [18:14] |
| cruciform: | and wrt insurance, methinks this is a big can o' worms | [18:14] |
| cruciform: | aha, gn! | [18:14] |
| feedbot: | http://trilema.com/2020/afacerea-protar/ << Trilema -- Afacerea Protar | [21:02] |
| billymg: | http://ossasepia.com/2020/04/23/ossasepia-logs-for-22-Apr-2020#1025005 << jfw, yup, looks good. one minor thing for the patch removing js selection: the wrapper <span> tags in page.php and single.php can be removed as well | [21:32] |
| ossabot: | Logged on 2020-04-22 16:39:07 jfw: the JS selector reminds me, billymg: I signed the two patches that seemed settled, in http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/mp-wp/ ; are they suitable for you as is? | [21:32] |
| billymg: | in http://fixpoint.welshcomputing.com/v/mp-wp/mp-wp_add-footnotes-and-textselectionjs.vpatch | [21:33] |
| billymg: | jfw: i also wasn't able to press locally with a keccak v.pl, the patches/seals looked fine to me so i couldn't figure out what the issue was. any ideas? | [21:37] |
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