| diana_coman: | hanbot, the .cmf format is binary for cal3d | [07:54] |
| diana_coman: | if you want to figure that one out, you'll need to look at cal3d's manual thing | [07:54] |
| diana_coman: | this is not a terrible start for cal3d : http://download.gna.org/cal3d/documentation/guide/ | [07:55] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: The Cal3D User's Guide (at download.gna.org) | [07:55] |
| diana_coman: | basically the models are made in blender but then they need to be exported and that is currently a rather iffy part | [07:56] |
| diana_coman: | existing exporters "work" only partially, only in certain cases, only when there's a full moon and the stars are aligned | [07:56] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, hanbot re format in any case the reference is .blend really, not the exported stuff | [07:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman so basically we just want .blend delivered huh | [08:02] |
| diana_coman: | well, that is the main thing anyway; basically the "source code" not the binary what is this | [08:03] |
| diana_coman: | we do have some minimal specs for .blend though, at a very minimum those from cs in any case | [08:04] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I should fish them out and put on the wiki or something | [08:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah that's a good idea, just throw them in there we'll make sense of it later. | [08:08] |
| shinohai: | lol just passed mircea_popescu still snail searching | [08:17] |
| diana_coman: | was he chasing after the snails? :d | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | as a starting point re .blend for crystal space & some (not all..) of the existing exporters: http://www.crystalspace3d.org/docs/online/manual/Blender.html | [08:21] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: Crystal Space 2.1.0: 5.8 Making Levels and Models in Blender (at www.crystalspace3d.org) | [08:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai oya. got 160 | [08:24] |
| shinohai: | aha nice | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | also hanbot or who else is interested http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/Tutorials#Tutorials_for_Artists | [08:26] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: Tutorials - Crystal Space 3D (at www.crystalspace3d.org) | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | http://www.crystalspace3d.org/main/ArtistBestPractices_Tutorial <- these are all worth a read as a minimum | [08:41] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: ArtistBestPractices Tutorial - Crystal Space 3D (at www.crystalspace3d.org) | [08:41] |
| shinohai: | I managed to get 229 q116 grass this morning before cft ran out :D | [08:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh that guy never showed up huh | [08:45] |
| shinohai: | nope hasn't yet, I gave him the ords and bundles last night | [08:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | aww, manage it = give him 1 at a time lol | [08:48] |
| shinohai: | >.< | [08:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTwUhKgoSew << official snail hunting poem | [08:48] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: DupÄ\u0083 melci - Ion Barbu - YouTube (at www.youtube.com) | [08:48] |
| hanbot: | diana_coman thanks for the reading materials etc. fwiw, i'm using blender v2.67 (released may 2013). current is 2.78a, released last month. any reason i oughta noodle with upgrades? | [08:53] |
| diana_coman: | I would have to look into 2.78a to see what they claim to do there and whether any of it might help with the cal3d export part; basically from a strictly blender point of view I worked with a whole set of versions from 2.4 to 2.7 and I would say 2.67 is fine in there; what you might want to test first however before choosing one version is how the different exporters behave if you want to try use/adapt an existing exporter | [08:58] |
| diana_coman: | basically different exporters work to different degrees with different versions - making it all a huge headache; cutting this short I would rather just stick to 2.71 and develop an exporter for that (it has a baking API which I'm not sure is in 2.67 as well) | [08:59] |
| diana_coman: | (we'll need texture baking at least as an option) | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | ffs they list "Python APIs changes" as FEATURE, arrgh | [09:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh | [09:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | are they on 3.x yet ? | [09:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman don't we want to do runtime textures ? | [09:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | imo texture baking is a stupid idea. | [09:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | o nm, i misunderstand. texture baking = turning procedural texture into raster texture. i thought it meant "attaching specified texture to model permanently" | [09:12] |
| diana_coman: | aha; not attaching permanently, no | [09:16] |
| diana_coman: | they are "focusing" on 2.8 | [09:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | one of the things i think most (all ?) other games get wrong is the fucking art semantics. very VERY flimsy attempts of "scale-and-retexture", usually resulting in red/green/black/gold/etc dragons. | [09:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | fuck that stupid shit. it's an entire language, scale and retexture. | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot, from what I can see at a quick look, 2.78 seems to claim mainly bits and bobs for making the actual drawing/rigging easier so that's perhaps for you to have a look at if it's any help, mainly the new bendy bones stuff perhaps for rigging | [09:18] |
| diana_coman: | changing the *colour* omg what an accomplishment of the accomplished accomplishitters | [09:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | you know ? | [09:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | whereas the correct approach is to 1. make master mesh 2. make set of animations for it. SET! 3. make set of textures for it ; and then 4. make SET of (A,T) mappings, allowing you to have numerous ~meaningfully different yet similar~ mobs of the same "species". ie exactly how nature works. | [09:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | your upper bound becomes a.count*t.count not fucking min(a,t) as thye do it. | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: poor cal3d actually aims to allow one to do exactly as much or as little puzzle-building/changes as you want really | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | you can event have bits of mesh and combine those too really so sets of part-meshes to put together | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | i recall unspecifically it was very well fitted for my specs. years ago this. | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie (late ?) 2013 when we did the original survey work | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, cal3d hasn't changed much or at least not in this core idea (and I hope it doesn't "change" either, lol) | [09:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | :p | [09:22] |
| hanbot: | i'll see about getting 2.71 going for the sake of being on the same page then. i'm not too trusting of "easier!!1" stuff for its own sake | [09:23] |
| diana_coman: | cool stuff; from my point of view we can freeze at 2.71 esp when we get to make a proper exporter for it | [09:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman version 3.x i meant re python | [09:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | hanbot basically whatever you pick has good chances to end up baked in permanently, so pick something good. | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | ^^^^^ | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu, I think latest blender shouts for python 3 ONLY, yeah | [09:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh. | [09:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm not terribly sure python 3 has any sort of future. it seems altogether unable to muster specific support in tmsr, and the open sores movement is running out of steam. | [09:27] |
| shinohai: | I still prefer 2.7 tbh | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | actually their statement is so lulzy worth quoting. | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | "Short version: Python 2.x is legacy, Python 3.x is the present and future of the language | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | Python 3.0 was released in 2008. The final 2.x version 2.7 release came out in mid-2010, with a statement of extended support for this end-of-life release. The 2.x branch will see no new major releases after that. 3.x is under active development and has already seen over five years of stable releases, including version 3.3 in 2012, 3.4 in 2014, and 3.5 in 2015. This means that all recent standard library improvements, for exam | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | ple, are only available by default in Python 3.x. | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | Guido van Rossum (the original creator of the Python language) decided to clean up Python 2.x properly, with less regard for backwards compatibility than is the case for new releases in the 2.x range. The most drastic improvement is the better Unicode support (with all text strings being Unicode by default) as well as saner bytes/Unicode separation. | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | Besides, several aspects of the core language (such as print and exec being statements, integers using floor division) have been adjusted to be easier for newcomers to learn " | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | so basically, "it is the present (delusionally) and future (hopefully) of the language because it has more unicode crap and it's easier for noobies." | [09:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | glhf, if your focus is new people that means you're an altcoin and get lost. | [09:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile 2 branch is FINALLY stable. | [09:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | i have nfi what they must be drinking to imagine "more releases" is a selling point, but whatever it is, they're guzzling it down. | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | " several aspects of the core language (such as print and exec being statements, integers using floor division) have been adjusted to be easier for newcomers to learn " <- eurgh, so now core aspects are decided based on what is "easy" for newcomers, way to go | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | guess that might be a cutting point re blender versions then | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | basically whatever blender version is the last to work on python 2.x | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | and we'll make it work with that - it's anyway more reasonable than to import whatever new python mess | [09:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty much. | [09:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | i can't imagine better news than "we finally took the creative gnats away, branch is finally stable". hallelujah. | [09:53] |
| hanbot: | so diana_coman sadly the repairing saga seems to continue. in the past ~20 hrs i've done five repair clicks, all of which with "/repair". first two decayed repairer and repaired the altar. i checked qualities between these to see how it was going. then i did three more, without checking until the end of the third click. repairer decayed, but altar is exact same quality as after my 2/5 click, ie three clicks without repairing. i saw system say i've got | [12:56] |
| hanbot: | ten points in mcguyver, repairing finished, etc. i've tried closing/opening inv, and relogging. | [12:56] |
| shinohai: | is now sorry he wasn't around here in 2015 to get one of those "Magic Bags" he is reading about. | [14:48] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot, anything at all different done after those 2 initial repairs ? did you train after them? | [15:04] |
| shinohai: | btw how does one "repair" things ... is there a section on this in wiki I overlooked perhaps? | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | the thing is: I can see the repair amount for all 5 attempts, but apparently the last ones did not make it to the right place, hmm | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | shinohai, it's a relatively recent thing - check out hanbot's post on it http://thewhet.net/2016/the-best-things-in-eulora-are-grimy/ | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | and maybe add a page for it on the wiki, not a bad idea at all | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot, do you know what quality was your altar to start with? (so before those 5 repairs) | [15:06] |
| shinohai: | Oh wow nice article diana_coman ... missed that for some reason, will have to add hanbot 's blog to my feed | [15:42] |
| DontCryRebuy: | so i thought my character was a swarthy latino, but now running on another pc it seems to be a female... now named Cristoval hehe | [16:13] |
| diana_coman: | welcome DontCryRebuy | [16:14] |
| DontCryRebuy: | hi | [16:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | a wb | [16:14] |
| diana_coman: | did you find your way around DontCryRebuy ? | [16:17] |
| DontCryRebuy: | there was a task waiting for me, i got a bunch of items from shinohai | [16:17] |
| DontCryRebuy: | not yet | [16:17] |
| DontCryRebuy: | is the camera always fixed vertically btw? | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | no, you can change it | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | have a look at the controls - in help iirc (the question mark icon at top of screen) | [16:18] |
| shinohai: | oh hiya DontCryRebuy | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | I think "M" goes through the different camera modes | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | and Page Up/Down to move it vertically iirc | [16:19] |
| DontCryRebuy: | hi shinohai, you can let me know what to do whenever you have time | [16:22] |
| shinohai: | Sure lemme log back in and ill find ya | [16:23] |
| danielpbarron: | shinohai, it's not too late to get a magic bag. make me an offer :p | [16:24] |
| shinohai: | DontCryRebuy: click on the backback thingy in your menu then right click one of the keys | [16:26] |
| shinohai: | haha danielpbarron ... i haz no idea what such necromancy costs | [16:26] |
| DontCryRebuy: | ok | [16:26] |
| DontCryRebuy: | key to small worthless putrid leather claimr | [16:27] |
| shinohai: | it should show you coordinates to where a claim is, type /pilot <the coordinates> then enter | [16:27] |
| shinohai: | and it will point you in the directionn | [16:27] |
| shinohai: | DontCryRebuy: do one of the ordinary grass claims first | [16:27] |
| DontCryRebuy: | it says autopilot done | [16:28] |
| diana_coman: | autopilot only POINTS you in the right direction DontCryRebuy | [16:28] |
| shinohai: | ok now start walking ..... | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | you still need to move, lol | [16:29] |
| DontCryRebuy: | ah ok | [16:29] |
| shinohai: | remember you can check you position with /pos | [16:29] |
| DontCryRebuy: | im pretty close | [16:34] |
| DontCryRebuy: | think im there, i use the key? | [16:36] |
| diana_coman: | unlock the claim DontCryRebuy | [16:37] |
| DontCryRebuy: | damn i think i dropped the key is that possible | [16:40] |
| DontCryRebuy: | tried to drag it on the claim thing | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | yes, it is possible | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | pick it up, lol | [16:40] |
| diana_coman: | http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/08/30/euloras-first-grade-how-to-get-a-skill-build-a-claim-make-your-own-grass-etc/ <- look there for how to unlock+build the claim DontCryRebuy | [16:41] |
| DontCryRebuy: | seems i have to get skills first then | [16:45] |
| DontCryRebuy: | back i go | [16:45] |
| diana_coman: | oh, no | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | no DontCryRebuy , you don't need skills | [16:46] |
| DontCryRebuy: | oh | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | that part is obsolete meanwhile | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's a post from ..hm, 2015, look at that | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | just follow the part describing how to unlock and build the claim | [16:46] |
| diana_coman: | there, updated post | [16:50] |
| DontCryRebuy: | :) | [16:51] |
| DontCryRebuy: | ok i have thousands of pieces of grass, these i give back to shinohai? | [16:58] |
| DontCryRebuy: | or leave them at the claim? | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | take them with you back to shinohai, yes | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | and leave the claim unlocked as it's useless now | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | can you carry all that grass? | [16:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | DontCryRebuy i'm in town, you can bring 'em to me here. | [16:59] |
| DontCryRebuy: | ok | [16:59] |
| shinohai: | Should I take him my table or let him suffer noob penance? | [17:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol give the guy a table | [17:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | DontCryRebuy dig all three first, then shinohai will explain how to botwalk over here | [17:00] |
| DontCryRebuy: | well, i got a message about carrying too much load or something | [17:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [17:01] |
| shinohai: | DontCryRebuy: where are you at? | [17:01] |
| DontCryRebuy: | -168.21 36.65 -143.54 | [17:02] |
| DontCryRebuy: | cant move also | [17:05] |
| shinohai: | you are overweight, see top right corner of you inventory | [17:06] |
| shinohai: | anyone have 4 cft and a craft table bp they can sell me? Imma make one | [17:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai aha. trade me. | [17:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol what are you doing, skating | [17:16] |
| shinohai: | trying to get the craft table over to you | [17:17] |
| DontCryRebuy: | i left the rest of the grass | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | where did you leave it ? | [17:17] |
| shinohai: | it just leaves it behind | [17:17] |
| shinohai: | mircea_popescu: I have the grass he couldnt get it in the table | [17:17] |
| DontCryRebuy: | in front of you | [17:17] |
| DontCryRebuy: | is that ok | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | yep. | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | soo... i'm confused. you got how much grass out of the three claims and where is it. | [17:18] |
| shinohai: | anywho .... there it is | [17:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | 1405 ? | [17:18] |
| shinohai: | I have 8k of it he dropped mircea_popescu | [17:19] |
| DontCryRebuy: | no i have 2 keys left | [17:19] |
| DontCryRebuy: | i did 1 claim | [17:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah go do all of 'em | [17:20] |
| DontCryRebuy: | 3 keys left even | [17:20] |
| shinohai: | I can't get close too many other tables | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | so wait he got like 9k from 1 claim ? | [17:20] |
| shinohai: | yup | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | DontCryRebuy step back a bit you're guarding it | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok so 9405 this one ; go do the other two | [17:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | just do them together, put the grass in table then botwalk back here | [17:21] |
| DontCryRebuy: | so can i just grab a table here or do i have to make one | [17:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai will make you one i think as soon as he accepts my trade | [17:22] |
| shinohai: | sure | [17:22] |
| hanbot: | http://logs.minigame.bz/latest.log.html#t20:06:54 << iirc was 25310, if that's at all useful. anyway, thanks for looking into it diana_coman | [17:39] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: #Eulora log for Monday, 2016-11-28 (at logs.minigame.bz) | [17:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | shinohai it's pretty relaxing yea | [17:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | how goes DontCryRebuy ? | [17:39] |
| shinohai: | got any cft bp's? may as well turn my grass into some | [17:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | nope | [17:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | also not terribly good move for you to make cft as it'll aggravate the shortage | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | aha, thanks hanbot, it helps track what happened there | [17:42] |
| DontCryRebuy: | was afk for a bit mircea_popescu, traveling now | [17:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | cool. | [17:48] |
| shinohai: | relegates grass to storage until later date | [17:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | hanbot so you found a bona fide bug. will be fixed wed. plox don't do more repairs till then ; thanks for teh reporting, i'll add 100k to your tool. | [17:49] |
| hanbot: | cool, glad something positive can come out of the hassle. | [17:51] |
| hanbot: | i suppose i'll try some mowing 'til then :) | [17:51] |
| DontCryRebuy: | its weird but i dont see this claim while im at the coords | [17:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm. | [17:52] |
| DontCryRebuy: | if there is a key, there should be a claim? | [17:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | in principle. except if it's the same key you used before the claim may have disappeared as it was dug up | [17:53] |
| DontCryRebuy: | ill check another one | [17:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | did it work ? | [18:07] |
| DontCryRebuy: | yeah im watching a meter fill up | [18:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | nice. | [18:08] |
| DontCryRebuy: | ive got the grass on the table at the town, one claim left but i have to go soon | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | why not do both symultaneous ? | [18:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway gotta take a step back so i can pick it up | [18:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | moar | [18:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is pretty good harvest DontCryRebuy | [18:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, you doing the third now or tomorro ? | [18:33] |
| DontCryRebuy: | tomorrow | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | alrighty. once that's done ima pay you for your trouble. | [18:33] |
| DontCryRebuy: | cool | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | stuff here so far lessee | [18:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | !~calc (6000+8508+9405) * 60 * .09 *.1 | [18:34] |
| jhvh1: | mircea_popescu: (6000+8508+9405) * 60 * .09 *.1 = 12913.02 | [18:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | almost 13k + whatever you get tomorrow prolly another 6k or so | [18:34] |
| DontCryRebuy: | what can you use them for | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | 1 ecu = 1 satoshi | [18:36] |
| DontCryRebuy: | i mean the grass | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | otherwise you can buy mining gear or whatever, craft materials/recipes | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah they're used to make threads | [18:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | saw http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/ ? | [18:37] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: Euloran Cookbook Version 1.3 (at www.dianacoman.com) | [18:37] |
| DontCryRebuy: | not yet but ill take a look | [18:37] |
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