| diana_coman: | <mircea_popescu> not a bad idea actually. <- uhm, earlier this year you said it was purposefully not sending this info | [01:29] |
| diana_coman: | basically so that "people don't gang up on the owner" iirc | [01:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | but to THE OWNER | [01:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | doesn't have to broascast it to everyone | [01:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | currently it doesn't even tell the owner that it's his own stick | [01:39] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, sure, but kind of redundant really | [01:39] |
| diana_coman: | unless people start now really being at same location at same time or something | [01:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | tis conceivable, depending on the maps you know, everyone wants X resource | [01:40] |
| diana_coman: | and that means that one has to send DIFFERENT messages to owner and rest | [01:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | not trivial huh | [01:40] |
| diana_coman: | which somehow not sure it's worth the hassle really | [01:40] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu> tis conceivable, depending on the maps you know, everyone wants X resource <- by same place I mean same coords! | [01:41] |
| diana_coman: | not like within 3 coords of each other | [01:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | you know how people get. | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | nope, how do they get? | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | the bot doesn't mess up really | [01:42] |
| diana_coman: | closest claim is yours | [01:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | if they're within 3 coords of each other will all be in same exact spot. | [01:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway. not a huge priority. | [01:43] |
| diana_coman: | mk | [01:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | in fairness the whole message structure will prolly end up redone | [01:44] |
| diana_coman: | that certainly, but not really related as such | [01:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | toi bed | [01:47] |
| alikim: | diana: closest claim is yours << even now when you have like 3 people exploring across the island, try to go into somebody's stick forest where they pop a few per unit and pop your own, not gonna be the closest. so unreliable. | [02:34] |
| alikim: | didn't expect you, a dev, to support "closest stick" layman aproach over the owner id. so frustrated right now. gonna rage quit | [02:37] |
| alikim: | besides I'm hungry so laters | [02:38] |
| diana_coman: | alikim> diana: closest claim is yours << even now when you have like 3 people exploring across the island, try to go into somebody's stick forest where they pop a few per unit and pop your own, not gonna be the closest. so unreliable. <- I did that and no, no problem. To be fair, there *would* be problem indeed if someone came *really* close to my character *and* get a claim roughly at same time, yes | [02:51] |
| diana_coman: | <alikim> didn't expect you, a dev, to support "closest stick" layman aproach over the owner id. so frustrated right now. gonna rage quit <- and no, it's not that I *support* that over owner id - it's just that there are other issues there too as pointed above | [02:52] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, tell me about frustrated with the client, ahem; the bot that is in use now is the 3rd version basically (and that means 3rd time written from scratch pretty much), due to having to work around all sorts of issues that shouldn't be there in an ideal setup; for that matter I still think the first design *was* the best (relying on messages only, ids and the like so yeah, in theory fully reliable) but working ideal works t | [02:58] |
| diana_coman: | heoretical ideal from my point of view | [02:58] |
| diana_coman: | meant working ideal comes first from my point of view | [03:04] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman, 3 doubtful tomes available: 2 at 320q and 1 at 56q | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu> if they're within 3 coords of each other will all be in same exact spot. <- that's false btw | [04:31] |
| alikim: | what I'm writing right now is based on messages, not sure what kind of problems I can run into, will see | [05:33] |
| alikim: | I mean the logic, not the movement part | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | yes, the logic was initially based on messages only | [05:54] |
| diana_coman: | to be fair, meanwhile the server got improved a lot so hopefully you'll have less trouble anyway | [05:55] |
| diana_coman: | but I'm not sure it is 100\% trouble-free | [05:55] |
| diana_coman: | troubles I used to have: 1. getting stuck due to lost messages | [05:55] |
| diana_coman: | 2. wearing-down containers / interrupting explore due to unexpected messages | [05:56] |
| diana_coman: | meanwhile there has been quite substantial work put in on the server side to correct those issues, so it's way better, but I don't know whether it is 100\% guaranteed | [05:56] |
| diana_coman: | also laggy connections would basically throw it off entirely | [05:57] |
| diana_coman: | overall relying on messages only was simply not robust enough to be truly useful | [05:58] |
| diana_coman: | hopefully all the work on server side paid off and made the same approach reliable now | [05:59] |
| diana_coman: | oh, add to the list of potential troubles: being *too fast* - practically the world did not update as fast as the bot worked | [06:03] |
| alikim: | ok will see | [06:05] |
| jurov: | my bot is now so fast that it crashes the client on some assertion related to drawing polygons in cs :( | [07:58] |
| jurov: | changing camera mode to dynamic follow help, but it's not 100\% | [07:59] |
| jurov: | the other causes of failure are: server says "You started to explore" but nothing really happens, overweight and trying to explore while falling | [08:03] |
| jurov: | and mismatched PERSIST_ITEM messages, but they happen less often than above | [08:04] |
| diana_coman: | ouch jurov but yeah, that's pretty much the kind of thing that made me switch to the current bot design | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | jurov> and mismatched PERSIST_ITEM messages, but they happen less often than above <- what do you mean here? | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | maybe it's something more concrete that we can look into | [08:20] |
| jurov: | what you discussed above, that some other player drops claim in vicinity | [08:20] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, but why would that be a trouble | [08:20] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [08:20] |
| diana_coman: | I really can't see how would the claim be closer to your character | [08:21] |
| diana_coman: | your client needs to get those messages too so that it can draw the new claims basically | [08:21] |
| jurov: | i did not yet implement check which one is closest | [08:22] |
| jurov: | just cross-checking with the "You got" message was sufficient to weed out most cases | [08:24] |
| jurov: | er "You placed" | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | ah, ok | [08:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman\x08>\x08\x0F mircea_popescu> if they're within 3 coords of each other will all be in same exact spot. <- that's false btw <<< it's a matter of people [by which i mean monkey] behaviour. they cluster. | [10:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim> so frustrated right now. gonna rage quit << you gotta relax, man. why so wound up ? bad history or something ? | [10:50] |
| diana_coman: | I meant the fact that the claims will be in the exact same spot is false | [11:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | sure, that. but what do players know, you know ? | [11:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | playerbase behaviour is always and everywhere fashion driven not rational. | [11:42] |
| jurov: | is it even possible to place marker to exact same spot as another player? no known bot has that precision anyway | [11:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | it is because long runs of bot mining result in markers superimposed almost. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | jurov, technically speaking it should be possible I'd say, why not? | [11:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | i've had sticks which i had to targer from opposite idrections to be able to touch | [11:50] |
| jurov: | oh, but the discussion was about persist messages = new claims, not already existing | [11:50] |
| diana_coman: | jurov, the situation would be: 2 people at *same* coords basically | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | synchronised | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | euloran exploring dance, bwahahaha | [11:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [11:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov think about it, if two things can be put in the same place, any two things can be put in the same place. | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | I don't think there is any restriction re 2 people in same place at same time, that'd be the only trouble as such | [11:54] |
| jurov: | yes i saw claims glued to each other, too | [11:54] |
| jurov: | but they are already persisted and don't cause problems | [11:55] |
| jurov: | the restriction about mining on the same place twice applies only to the same player? | [11:56] |
| jurov: | nevermind, that would not possibly work | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | anybody wants 4 stacks of q58 tinkerer's feelings? | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov> and mismatched PERSIST_ITEM messages, but they happen less often than above << all this stuff really has to go on wiki. | [11:59] |
| jurov: | diana_coman: did anyone found an use for them? | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | there is an use for them jurov: they can be made into sentiments and so on up the scale | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | through one of the new lines, auctioned recently | [12:00] |
| jurov: | imo that's what belongs to the wiki more than message innards | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | good point | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | certainly belongs there, yes | [12:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov> just cross-checking with the "You got" message was sufficient to weed out most cases << it works unless they both get same thing i guess ? | [12:02] |
| jurov: | if same thing, same place, same time, etc. well then just try to build all of them | [12:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. but more generally - i think the idea should be that bots should be flexible rather than friable, by design. | [12:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, treat the game as the enemy not as one's parents. | [12:05] |
| jurov: | that is flexible. if server does not allow building other dude's claim, problem solved. if it allows, problem solved too - players better avoid each other | [12:06] |
| jurov: | checking zillions of preconditions is much more friable | [12:06] |
| diana_coman: | jurov> that is flexible. if server does not allow building other dude's claim, problem solved. if it allows, problem solved too - players better avoid each othe <- sounds perfect to me, I don't see any problem with that | [12:07] |
| diana_coman: | though as bot-runner I'd prefer NOT losing time to try to build 10 claims, but arguably that's not necessarily a big loss due to likelihood of such a situation | [12:07] |
| jurov: | lol imagine 10 players shadow you and try to explore at same time/place as you | [12:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | i can see his point hehe | [12:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | just as long as bot doesn't end up hung after failing some test. | [12:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's 100\% what flexible is, imo : test, but recover. | [12:10] |
| danielpbarron: | hi Guest99394 | [14:23] |
| Birdman: | diana_coman ill take the two high q tomes | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | ok, you in town? | [15:15] |
| Birdman: | ya 1 sec | [15:18] |
| Birdman: | anyone have mcguyver numina for sale? | [15:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | i do yea. | [15:20] |
| Birdman: | ill buy a stack of the 10 bv ones | [15:21] |
| Birdman: | nosehairs? | [15:21] |
| Birdman: | trade when ready diana_coman | [15:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | qi Birdman ? | [15:23] |
| Birdman: | higher the better | [15:23] |
| Birdman: | nothing under like q150 | [15:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | ima look | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | 1358774 Birdman | [15:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman 1 stack q 163 ? | [15:24] |
| Birdman: | oof i guess i cant even afford that, ill buy one though diana_coman | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | 679387 | [15:25] |
| Birdman: | thanks | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | enjoy | [15:26] |
| Birdman: | and yeah sure mircea_popescu whats it cost | [15:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | 212k. | [15:26] |
| Birdman: | deal | [15:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | hit me | [15:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | ty hanbot | [15:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | rdy Birdman ? | [15:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | cheerios! | [15:28] |
| Birdman: | thank ya | [15:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | this lousy grass, 12k and no tink lvl. | [15:29] |
| diana_coman: | friendly reminder: server coming down in ~30 min for planned maintenance | [15:34] |
| Birdman: | ah, hopefully the consid takes less than that | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | not in my experience. | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | they're ~1hr neh ? | [15:35] |
| Birdman: | i havent kept track | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | server back on | [16:14] |
| jurov: | any major changes? | [16:29] |
| diana_coman: | no jurov | [16:29] |
| Birdman: | got over 500 skullcap bps from that one | [17:06] |
| Birdman: | bout 400k in bv | [17:06] |
| Birdman: | so yeh profitable if i sell it all for 250\% like i'm paying | [17:07] |
| Birdman: | hanbot can i buy a token for 100k? | [17:07] |
| Birdman: | interestingly, using a q89 bit gets me q86 resource, even with my higher quality enumerations | [17:15] |
| hanbot: | Birdman sure | [18:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman what q are the bps ? | [18:39] |
| Birdman: | 255 | [20:29] |
| Birdman: | mircea_popescu ^ | [20:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | so 1mn for the 500 ? | [20:35] |
| Birdman: | what you wanna buy em all for 1mn? | [20:39] |
| Birdman: | their bv alone isnt 400k, i meant all the bps i looted and maculature | [20:40] |
| Birdman: | 562 @q255 making them worth 275 each so if you'd want the lot i'd sell for 400k | [20:42] |
| Birdman: | diana_coman if you wanna sell me that low q tome for 15\% over bv im game | [20:43] |
| Birdman: | idk what you want for it, but i cant see paying any big mark up on something so low q | [20:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman aite, 400k it is then. | [20:48] |
| Birdman: | meet in town now? | [20:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | hit me Birdman | [21:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | ty | [21:13] |
| Birdman: | pleasure doing business | [21:13] |
| Birdman: | so diana_coman if you wanna sell me that other high q tome, i can buy it | [21:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | in other news, dg bundle 107 product 155 | [21:14] |
| Birdman: | bp q? | [21:15] |
| Birdman: | over 600k bv in boulders from this ord o.O | [21:25] |
| Birdman: | 7329 boulders q144 | [21:25] |
| Birdman: | mircea_popescu you wanna buy these 120\% over bv before i put em into storage? | [21:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | niice. | [21:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | aite i will. | [21:33] |
| Birdman: | 760k | [21:33] |
| Birdman: | i need to get my hands on a sortage book too | [21:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | trade me | [21:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | eenjoy. | [21:36] |
| Birdman: | thanks you too | [21:36] |
| Birdman: | also, are boulders 60 or 59 bv, i did the math at 60 | [21:36] |
| Birdman: | yeh they're 59, so i think i owe you ~ 12.5k | [21:38] |
| Birdman: | diana_coman, tomes? | [23:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | next time | [23:32] |
| Birdman: | yeah no big deal | [23:35] |
Comments feed: RSS 2.0