#eulora Logs for 14 Dec 2015



December 14th, 2015 by Diana Coman
jurov: interesting, normally all craft tables can be examined, but the one next to danielpbarron can't (won't react to clicks) [02:54]
jurov: derp, i was just too far , just had weird cam angle [02:56]
lobbesbot: News from dianacoman: Foxybots v1.3 <http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/12/14/foxybots-v1-3/> [05:01]
Birdman: well i just fucked myself [06:50]
Birdman: apparently taking something from a table stacks indefinitely, so i have 61 useless cs :) [06:51]
diana_coman: .... [06:54]
Birdman: didnt know :/ [06:54]
diana_coman: I'll buy them back at whatever q they have [06:54]
diana_coman: so if you have a stick at 19k, I'll give you 19k for it [06:54]
Birdman: might be more cost effective to just buy a shit load from mp and make them all useable [06:55]
Birdman: its a matter of time really [06:55]
diana_coman: if he sells them high enough for that, as I'd guess he mixes them to get them as close to 20203 as he can too [06:55]
diana_coman: anyway, that's my standing offer, I'll put it on the updated shop too I guess [06:56]
Birdman: cool cool [06:56]
Birdman: is trilema down? [07:05]
mircea_popescu: heh somehow ended up with 999 io [07:30]
mircea_popescu: Birdman not reachable atm. [07:37]
Birdman: you're buying ppb right? [07:45]
mircea_popescu: sure. [07:49]
Birdman: cool ill have a few hundred [07:50]
Birdman: got any high q rr or sb? [07:50]
Birdman: dont need much, like 100 of each [07:50]
mircea_popescu: sur.e [07:51]
Birdman: when would you like to meet up? [07:52]
mircea_popescu: im in town [07:53]
Birdman: ok, give me 5 or so [07:53]
danielpbarron: wait what [08:06]
danielpbarron: Birdman, you're making ppb out of your own sb? [08:06]
Birdman: maybe [08:12]
Birdman: who wants to know [08:12]
danielpbarron: well that's a waste [08:13]
Birdman: why's that [08:14]
danielpbarron: tinkering low quality into low quality [08:14]
diana_coman: why don't you sell the sb directly Birdman ? I'm buying it, MP buys it, it's not as if there isn't a market for it [08:15]
Birdman: selling the ppb is more profitable [08:15]
mircea_popescu: o.O [08:15]
diana_coman: oh, is it? [08:15]
Birdman: crazy, i know [08:15]
mircea_popescu: is too lazy to ssh into trilema and locally curl the page. [08:16]
mircea_popescu: anyone archived it ? [08:16]
diana_coman: uhm, I have it here [08:16]
mircea_popescu: quote the numbers plox [08:16]
Birdman: think its 56 per sb, and ~4500 for ppb [08:16]
diana_coman: and 54 per sb [08:16]
diana_coman: I pay 55 per sb and it still gets to 4235 vs your 4241 on ppb [08:17]
Birdman: plus teh loots i get, plus the possibility of an auction bumping price up? i figure you cs makers would bid lots on the ppb [08:17]
diana_coman: nope Birdman , I wouldn't [08:17]
Birdman: i see [08:17]
diana_coman: I'd rather get my own high q sb which gets me loot on ppb rather than paying some insane price on ppb [08:17]
Birdman: mircea_popescu trade me for some rr and sb? [08:18]
diana_coman: I can bump the price on low q sb a bit higher to 56 though [08:18]
Birdman: well, im gonna see the loot over 100 ppb runs, if its pretty crappy for the extra work then ill outright sell the sb [08:18]
Birdman: now is hitting ords with basics :) [08:19]
diana_coman: lol, maybe something is broken there :D [08:19]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, what q do you get on lumber nowadays? [08:20]
Birdman: whatcha mean [08:20]
danielpbarron: how do you get loot? [08:20]
mircea_popescu: ... [08:20]
mircea_popescu: seriously, that 2\% ? cool. [08:20]
danielpbarron: your building quality is 23 and tinkering is 45 [08:20]
mircea_popescu: well, i buy at those prices, so fine. [08:21]
diana_coman: if you get ords consistently with basic tools at whatever gathering level you have, it's really either some super-ultra-talent you have there, or the biggest weirdness seen so far around lol [08:21]
Birdman: <Birdman>well, im gonna see the loot over 100 ppb runs, if its pretty crappy for the extra work then ill outright sell the sb << danielpbarron [08:21]
Birdman: do you have all the answers? i sure dont. [08:21]
diana_coman: is curious on that too, how does Birdman get loot on tinkering lower q inputs into higher q outputs [08:21]
danielpbarron: that doesn't answer my question [08:21]
Birdman: maybe i dont, ive never tried [08:22]
Birdman: im not hitting ords that frequently [08:22]
danielpbarron: oh you haven't done this yet? good. sell me the sb [08:22]
Birdman: doesnt read minds [08:22]
mircea_popescu: likes this outlook. a) gotta try things, that's how you win ; b) finding and responding to price disparities no one else notices. also how you win. [08:25]
Birdman: what *is* rng based in this game? do two people with identical stats under identical circumstances get the same results? [08:29]
mircea_popescu: this hasn't so far been verified. [08:30]
mircea_popescu: also what's your idea of same results ? same quality ? same quantity ? [08:30]
diana_coman: curious how *would* that be verified esp re ensuring "identical circumstances" [08:31]
Birdman: i guess value in coppers by base value, how else could the game work that out [08:31]
mircea_popescu: i can tell you that almost no run is identical to no other, for myself. [08:31]
Birdman: well, same stats, same in put [08:31]
mircea_popescu: i've never went out with 10 hoes came out witgh the same pile of grass, ever. [08:31]
diana_coman: ^^ [08:32]
Birdman: same, and thats over hundreds [08:32]
mircea_popescu: same here. [08:32]
Birdman: i would prefer it to be rng sort of thing [08:32]
mircea_popescu: rng would normally average out. [08:32]
Birdman: anyways, could i get some rr and sb quick?? [08:32]
mircea_popescu: yes trade me [08:32]
Birdman: wow, can i buy more of this? [08:33]
Birdman: i didnt realise the q was so hihg [08:33]
mircea_popescu: no, buyt you get the hundred. 100 * 1.3 * (3.21 * 67 + 2.85 * 58 ) = [08:33]
mircea_popescu: 50k. [08:33]
Birdman: heh alright thanks [08:34]
mircea_popescu: use them well for claims and stuff, they're not atm replaceable. [08:34]
Birdman: goin straight into ords for best results [08:34]
Birdman: and thats enough for 100 of em [08:34]
mircea_popescu: heh got 2 lvls tinkering and 3 lvls sortage in this run [08:35]
diana_coman: ftr the mapping work is basically stopped and not sure how long it would take to do it now after the nerfing on gathering thing as basically it's not at all sustainable in any form atm [08:37]
diana_coman: I'm still considering what options I might have on finishing it but not sure [08:37]
Birdman: id chip in somethin to a map fund [08:42]
mircea_popescu: well, not so much has changed no ? where tools don't work, cs. [08:42]
Birdman: hit rates did nearly get cut in half for me [08:43]
diana_coman: lol mircea_popescu really [08:43]
diana_coman: ALL the map with cs? on which then I get like 30 boulders/claim? [08:44]
diana_coman: and no, a LOT has changed [08:44]
mircea_popescu: got about the same grass, strangely. [08:44]
diana_coman: tools used to work in 90\% of cases at least for basics [08:44]
Birdman: shit, totally forgot i need sharp slags for this [08:44]
diana_coman: and in about 40\% min for the rest [08:45]
diana_coman: now it's nowhere near that esp for the rest [08:45]
Birdman: danielpbarron make me 3 sharp slags 150\% [08:45]
mircea_popescu: i've not tried sr since the update, it's where i had problems, maybe a 93\% or so hit rate [08:45]
mircea_popescu: but grass is the same "always, practically" fwis. [08:46]
diana_coman: well goody, I'll map the grass area at 0.1 precision - any help ? [08:46]
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm not talking about your final point, im just trying to follow along at home the logic you propose you know ? [08:47]
diana_coman: how is that as I don't see it? [08:47]
mircea_popescu: <diana_coman> tools used to work in 90\% of cases at least for basics < [08:47]
Birdman: i had 75\% on grass now 42\% [08:47]
mircea_popescu: i haven't verified sr, where i got indeed about 93\% ish, but in the case of grass i get the same 99.9x\% as b4 [08:47]
diana_coman: ok and the following part which is on non-basics? [08:48]
mircea_popescu: i've not tried that at all. [08:48]
Birdman: and ive always had bad hit rates with non basics, i suspect hoes just arent the tool for the job. [08:48]
diana_coman: last time I did SR a few days ago it wasn't even 90\% hit [08:48]
mircea_popescu: do you suppose sortage has anything to do with this ? [08:48]
diana_coman: mk, will make a test on each tool I suppose [08:48]
mircea_popescu: as i still get 200+ q on basics. [08:48]
diana_coman: the q hasn't changed as far as I know [08:49]
diana_coman: on building [08:49]
mircea_popescu: also, do you see a dif between groceries and say mining items ? [08:49]
diana_coman: has it? [08:49]
mircea_popescu: not afaik. wasn't it tinkering gathering and farming ? [08:49]
diana_coman: mhm, I did get a feeling I was getting better hits on grocery but I have yet to run the numbers on that [08:49]
diana_coman: oh, you mean you still get 99\% on grass because of higher sortage? [08:50]
diana_coman: possibly [08:50]
mircea_popescu: i dunno, but i tell you i couldn't measure a difference. [08:50]
Birdman: i always thought the groceries were easier, i hit wpl the most out of any rares indefinitely [08:50]
diana_coman: weird that I could although I get some 165 on basics due to sorage [08:50]
diana_coman: maybe it's not high enough to *not* notice the diff [08:50]
diana_coman: Birdman, wpl is not the only grocery, lol [08:51]
Birdman: yes, but of the groceries i hit wpl the most [08:51]
diana_coman: there is one wpl spot at least which always seemed to be very easy indeed but that's not the point exactly [08:51]
diana_coman: ok [08:51]
mircea_popescu: wpl is kinda entry-level, like say 3x more than basics by value [08:51]
Birdman: yeah [08:51]
diana_coman: so with the new info from mircea_popescu I get a hypothesis that maybe additional skills (sortage/lj/mining/farming) affect not only q of items produced but also hit rates [08:54]
mircea_popescu: this has been kicking around for a year by now neh ? [08:54]
diana_coman: yes, but never really tested, was it? [08:54]
mircea_popescu: no real way to either. [08:55]
diana_coman: mhm, there'd be in principle get the hit rates now on basics; increase sortage by some 40 points thing min and then go again [08:55]
diana_coman: assuming in that interval there isn't some other jerking ofc [08:55]
mircea_popescu: it's also possible that there was a doubling of failure rate, but i just can't measure it myself. [08:56]
mircea_popescu: say i went from 99.96 to 99.92. that's not something i can see [08:56]
diana_coman: you could use your logs you know [08:56]
mircea_popescu: but the guy going from 70 to 40 will prolly see it. [08:56]
diana_coman: the bot logs all attempts [08:56]
diana_coman: so you can calc the hit rates precisely [08:56]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yes, now tell me how many attempts does it need to log for me to exclude noise to the 4th digit. [08:56]
Birdman: sighs [08:57]
diana_coman: lol, thought you did TONS of mining [08:57]
mircea_popescu: so i did. [08:57]
Birdman: apparently if you have an item in a container, and the container in your inventory, then pick up more of that item, it stacks in the container [08:57]
mircea_popescu: lol birdman sciencing out eulora. [08:57]
mircea_popescu: in other news, diana_coman did you want some tm q146 ? [08:57]
mircea_popescu: or i dun recall ? [08:58]
diana_coman: yes, the funnier there Birdman is when you forgot you had that item in the container and then looking where the heck did the new item vanish [08:58]
mircea_popescu: ^ happened to me. [08:58]
Birdman: im just glad i only brought 3 of the sb and not the whole stack [08:58]
mircea_popescu: heh. [08:58]
diana_coman: mhm mircea_popescu what's the price on that tm? [09:01]
mircea_popescu: 130 [09:01]
mircea_popescu: it'd be 125 but then im stuck dropping my own product 4 q points so... [09:03]
mircea_popescu: there's also a ~8\% that's samovar decay, not even sure what to count it as, prolly 11-12\% or s o should be [09:04]
Birdman: danielpbarron text me when they are done [09:04]
diana_coman: thing is: I can use them for only 2 thing as far as I can see now - either the remarkable which however would also require then bernet francos and dulce de leche [09:04]
diana_coman: and not even sure it's the right moment to build it [09:05]
diana_coman: or for the suspect ointments [09:05]
diana_coman: I don't even know atm what's the base value on so, would need to calc it [09:06]
mircea_popescu: i can make both of these, no big deal. [09:07]
mircea_popescu: from experience it's not a bad idea to stock materials you will need down the road. [09:07]
mircea_popescu: quality moves lol. [09:07]
diana_coman: I know, that's why I'm considering it anyway, question is more of "when " to make the stocks [09:07]
diana_coman: from experience right after a recent drop is not the best moment; on the other hand who knows [09:08]
mircea_popescu: myeah [09:08]
mircea_popescu: that's why i kinda moved off mining. originally was going to you know, put all into lumberjack get it as high as possible. because i had crafting as high as practicable and dimihishing returns - 200 was ogod enough [09:09]
mircea_popescu: but now without that... suddenly the fire's somewhere else lol. [09:09]
mircea_popescu: hopefully the 6 months my 25mn bought will be enough to fit everything. [09:09]
diana_coman: I think I'd rather take now 3 so that I'll make into 1 us that I'll give you to make me another wheel [09:10]
mircea_popescu: that still needs cheez, [09:10]
diana_coman: I'll make three cheesesses [09:11]
mircea_popescu: sure then. [09:11]
mircea_popescu: but if you make the cheese you should also make the milk and the ddl... [09:11]
mircea_popescu: except i make you milk to make ddl from. [09:11]
mircea_popescu: then i make so you make us i make tool ? [09:11]
diana_coman: yes, that's the plan [09:12]
mircea_popescu: alright. [09:12]
mircea_popescu: ok ima bbl. [09:12]
diana_coman: ok, I'll start cooking three cheese to start with [09:12]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, you selling any of that oil? [09:21]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu 3xcheese ready [09:30]
Birdman: trade when ready [12:10]
Birdman: what are slags bv 825? [12:10]
Birdman: anyone have cs?> [12:13]
danielpbarron: Birdman, http://www.eulorum.org/User_talk:Danielpbarron [12:15]
lobbesbot: Title: User talk:Danielpbarron - Eulorum (at www.eulorum.org) [12:15]
Birdman: you wanted the sb i make dan? [12:16]
danielpbarron: i'm thinking you shouldn't be making sb at all if it's low quality ppb that's needed [12:19]
Birdman: idk what is needed [12:20]
danielpbarron: high quality sb [12:20]
Birdman: but people say they will buy it [12:20]
Birdman: so i will get it [12:20]
danielpbarron: you should sell your ordinaries to someone who builds high quality sb [12:20]
Birdman: nnnope [12:20]
Birdman: this is probably going to be alot more profitable [12:20]
danielpbarron: i'm telling you it isn't [12:20]
Birdman: and im telling you you're wrong [12:21]
Birdman: i think they want low q sb to craft and make higher q ppb w/ tinker skill [12:21]
danielpbarron: high quality sb can be used to overcraft ppb [12:21]
danielpbarron: no [12:21]
danielpbarron: if the end goal is making chetty sticks, then low quality ppb is what they want [12:21]
Birdman: but anyways, its not my concern why they want it really [12:21]
Birdman: if you can find me a buyer of ord sb claims for 50k or more then we'll talk [12:22]
danielpbarron: you should gather up some sb ordinaries, sell it to me or Mircea, buy the resulting high quality sb, tinker it into low quality ppb, and sell that to Foxy or whoever is making sticks [12:23]
Birdman: all depends on how much sb i get from these right now [12:23]
danielpbarron: or i guess Foxy builds high quality basics too [12:23]
Birdman: it is an interesting mechanic how low q items appreciate over time [12:30]
Birdman: but as mp said it is easy to be a noob [12:30]
Birdman: thankfully you can target items that are in the holes in the map [12:51]
Birdman: Anyone have high q tubers for sale? [13:05]
danielpbarron: how many you want? [13:20]
Birdman: 500 [13:20]
Birdman: in fact i need high q everything [13:31]
mircea_popescu: sooo... you wanted this tm diana_coman ? [18:19]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, do you have any almost wine for sale? [18:20]
diana_coman: thought you wanted the cheese, lol [18:20]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ah ok, gimme the cheese. [18:20]
mircea_popescu: you gotta also make the ddl and tm tho. [18:20]
mircea_popescu: and to make ddl you need tm from me. [18:20]
diana_coman: dulce de leche? [18:20]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron lemme look. [18:21]
mircea_popescu: yes [18:21]
diana_coman: I can try to make it - hopefully I get more bps as I have only one [18:21]
diana_coman: do you need more tm you mean? [18:21]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron i don't, but i could make some. [18:21]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, how many, what quality? [18:21]
mircea_popescu: provided i get some sr/boulders to make srs [18:21]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman no, dulce de leche yes i mean. [18:21]
diana_coman: mhm, I have some 200 srs at 110q if that helps [18:22]
diana_coman: aha [18:22]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ok so i get you 3 tm made and ingredients for you to make 3 tm ? [18:23]
diana_coman: do you need 3tm made by me? I gather that I need 3 tm to make into 3 dulce de leche, right? the rest I don't know [18:24]
danielpbarron: what does srs have to do with almost wine? [18:24]
danielpbarron: to make the wineskins? [18:24]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman the so which im making takes 1 ddl, 1tm, 1 mc. [18:25]
mircea_popescu: you gave me 3 mc, so i will need 3ddl and 3tm you also make. [18:25]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron exactly. [18:25]
diana_coman: aha, so I need then indeed the io at least; have to check for the wineskins as I might still have them [18:25]
mircea_popescu: you need 1 wineskin, 5 tubers, 4 ios to make tm [18:26]
mircea_popescu: and i dun have csw, but again could make if sr/b [18:26]
diana_coman: yes, tubers I have for sure [18:26]
diana_coman: csw I might still have [18:26]
diana_coman: srs I have as said previously [18:26]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, so then i should get some wineskins for you then? [18:26]
mircea_popescu: no, some sr and boulders. [18:27]
mircea_popescu: there is negligible benefit in trying to undercraft low value stuff thart comes from decay tools. unless it's A LOT of points. [18:28]
mircea_popescu: so i'm not going to be putting say q 105 srs in my q150 csw craft [18:28]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I have the csw already, so I need only the IO for the tm, so 3 tm means 12 IO [18:29]
mircea_popescu: trade me. [18:29]
mircea_popescu: so let's see here. [18:29]
diana_coman: ugh, keep the goop, have better :p [18:29]
mircea_popescu: 12 * 5439 * 1.49 * 1.25 + 3 * 35690 * 1.49 * 1.3 - 3 * 100 * 15706 * 1.3 = 267702.84 [18:31]
mircea_popescu: that's 267k you owe so far here. [18:31]
diana_coman: lol, I'm better off selling you the cheese separately [18:32]
diana_coman: your shop says 27464 per cheese [18:32]
mircea_popescu: is that post update or pre update ? [18:33]
diana_coman: you mean pre or post q drop? [18:33]
mircea_popescu: well yeah i made a new shop [18:33]
diana_coman: I have it the version from yest [18:34]
diana_coman: assumed that's post q drop, right? with sb at 54 and threshold at 155 q [18:34]
diana_coman: (rather than 200) [18:34]
diana_coman: but whatever [18:34]
mircea_popescu: yes. well, so you selling me the cheese then ? [18:34]
mircea_popescu: 3k carryover. [18:36]
diana_coman: I'll make more and seel; I want to make 1 wheel though too [18:36]
diana_coman: k [18:36]
mircea_popescu: alright, so i'll pay you the 27.4 etc for the rest. [18:36]
mircea_popescu: this you get at 1.3 like the whole rest of the craftline. [18:36]
diana_coman: k [18:36]
mircea_popescu: you needed recipes ? [18:36]
diana_coman: I started with the one I had, hopefully I'll loot some [18:38]
diana_coman: if not... I'll need, yes [18:38]
mircea_popescu: mk [18:38]
mircea_popescu: anyone got flotsams for me ? or boulders ? hm ? hm ? [18:43]
danielpbarron: i have some boulders [18:45]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu yes, I need bps for dulce de leche [18:50]
mircea_popescu: well now i started a craft, be ~10 mins [18:50]
diana_coman: k [18:50]
diana_coman: I'll make some cheese meanwhile, no problem [18:53]
diana_coman: ftr data points: 1q points in cooking from level 70 to 77; judging on this solely, cooking would be better than mcguyvering, as I basically have 110q in mcguyver for 262lvl [19:01]
diana_coman: obv, more likely it's just non-linearity and it will die out [19:02]
mircea_popescu: this is a broken comparison. [19:05]
mircea_popescu: 1q point from where to where ? [19:05]
diana_coman: lol, the data for mcguyver I already gave earlier, here's the full set: same tink level, 100q in gung-ho, 110q in mcguyver, gung at 70, mc at 262 [19:06]
diana_coman: increase of 7 levels in gung (to 77) no increase in tink -> 1 q point [19:08]
diana_coman: and it was "new 100q" at 70, that's why I took it as reference really, as otherwise I can't know the fraction really [19:08]
diana_coman: anyway, can I get those dulce de leche bps mircea_popescu? [19:09]
mircea_popescu: so basically 192 extra levels gave 10 extra points of q from cooking to toolmaking [19:10]
mircea_popescu: whereas 7 extra levels gave 1 extra point in cooking [19:10]
mircea_popescu: making it seemingly 3x better [19:10]
diana_coman: yes [19:10]
mircea_popescu: maybe you shoulod be a cook. [19:10]
diana_coman: yeah, *maybe* [19:11]
mircea_popescu: ftr my gungho is 362 and my q 146 [19:11]
diana_coman: I suspect it will just slow down significantly [19:11]
diana_coman: trouble is that you have high tink too [19:11]
diana_coman: so kind of impossible to compare really [19:11]
mircea_popescu: that i do. [19:12]
mircea_popescu: myeah [19:12]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron what q the boulders and how many ? [19:12]
diana_coman: do I get the bps or do I start another cheese? [19:12]
mircea_popescu: trade me diana_coman [19:13]
diana_coman: how much are those? [19:14]
mircea_popescu: say 15k both [19:14]
mircea_popescu: and 3k from before... i guess a coin will do. [19:14]
diana_coman: ok [19:15]
diana_coman: thanks [19:15]
mircea_popescu: sure. [19:15]
diana_coman: the limit on the cheese is...st basically [19:15]
mircea_popescu: used to be md but i guess no longer. [19:16]
diana_coman: dm maybe [19:16]
diana_coman: well, I found dm [19:16]
diana_coman: and ss and wm and basically everything except the bloody st + canines [19:17]
diana_coman: which are of course like 4x dm [19:18]
diana_coman: more like 3 actually [19:18]
mircea_popescu: yeah [19:18]
mircea_popescu: no ww2 recipe ;/ [19:33]
Birdman: diana_coman do you want to buy my sb? [19:56]

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