| chetty: | morning | [04:22] |
| diana_coman: | morning chetty | [05:13] |
| jurov: | morning | [07:16] |
| jurov: | server down (was not me) | [08:02] |
| chetty: | yeah, just a sec | [08:02] |
| chetty: | we are hiccupping the database a bit, srry | [08:04] |
| jurov: | no mollusc, dead nor alive | [08:14] |
| diana_coman: | I saw some Worn Old Screens dropped/picked up by MP... | [08:15] |
| chetty: | hmm I havent found those either, I have found various stuffs wandering at random, even got a cute purple snail :) | [08:16] |
| diana_coman: | purple snails are cute indeed :) | [08:17] |
| jurov: | "flying isnt nice" is public announcement? | [08:25] |
| jurov: | i was getting some shrooms and it flashed | [08:27] |
| jurov: | i was just standing by merchant | [08:27] |
| chetty: | yeah server admin, but not so timely | [08:27] |
| chetty: | restart in 3 | [08:28] |
| jurov: | haha looks like i got my wings clipped | [08:30] |
| chetty: | done | [08:31] |
| chetty: | there are likely to be a lot of quick restarts this morning folks, I may not give warning everytime | [08:37] |
| jurov: | as per my continuing economics rambling - where will little bits o' nothing come from when merchant dies? | [08:44] |
| chetty: | good question | [08:46] |
| chetty: | hmm mp says its in todays update ... | [08:47] |
| jurov: | hmm, pu ingredients for bandar toolkit into the public table, "Combine" caused the adze and hoe to vanish ?! | [09:35] |
| jurov: | and trying again it says they aren't there | [09:35] |
| jurov: | chetty, there? | [09:37] |
| chetty: | hmm | [09:43] |
| chetty: | and it didnt make any bundle? | [09:44] |
| chetty: | any chance those items had a negative quality? | [09:45] |
| jurov: | it just took them and did not make anything | [09:45] |
| jurov: | i checked, even if they had negative before, they should be averaged out | [09:46] |
| chetty: | hmm well I'll poke around, this sure is first time anythng even similar happens, pretty strange .. | [09:47] |
| chetty: | so a toolkit takes a few more things than that, what happened to the other items? | [09:48] |
| jurov: | they were left there | [09:49] |
| chetty: | well for now I am betting on negative items | [09:50] |
| jurov: | so they stay negative even if mixed with positive result? | [09:50] |
| chetty: | well in fact you shouldnt have negative items, but I am still working on various places that can happen and deleting them when they show up. | [09:52] |
| jurov: | perhaps, if you used a database that allows setting such constraints.... | [09:52] |
| chetty: | ones I see show up in the db all seem to yours ... | [09:53] |
| jurov: | yes, i did some adze with q -14 today by keyboard-fu exploring | [09:54] |
| jurov: | i stacked it woth another one and thought i will be okay | [09:54] |
| jurov: | dunno what you gonna do if diana_coman succeeds doing her mining bot. this is reliably reproducible. | [09:55] |
| chetty: | well I live to server people that want to break it seems | [09:55] |
| chetty: | would you care to explain exactly what you mean by keyboard-fu? | [09:57] |
| jurov: | lol we clearly have different approach, db constraints like this are among first things I am thinking about | [09:58] |
| jurov: | move, Enter, arrow up, enter, Enter, move.... | [09:58] |
| jurov: | (arrow up recalls /explore) | [09:59] |
| chetty: | ok, but this is not about the db | [10:00] |
| jurov: | server does not track quality of the items? | [10:01] |
| jurov: | of course that check should not be left to the db, but having it there is very useful safety net | [10:03] |
| chetty: | I find having the negatives there rather helpful in tracking down and eliminating them | [10:22] |
| jurov: | wouldn't be better not having them in first palce? | [10:23] |
| jurov: | it sounds to me like "we must track down and eliminate bugs faster than the hax0rs do" shitty vendors do | [10:24] |
| chetty: | wanna take over? | [10:24] |
| jurov: | maybe. | [10:25] |
| jurov: | sorry, i do hunt bugs after the fact, too. just prefer to nip them in the bud if possible (when someone tries to insert obviously invalid value) | [10:30] |
| jurov: | did not intend to dememan your work :( | [10:30] |
| jurov: | *demean | [10:31] |
| lobbesbot: | New post: http://trilema.com/category/smg/feed/ Eulora mini update, July 1st <http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-mini-update-july-1st/> | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | ^ worth a read. | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | and then a play, since it seems quite criptic to me | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | does it ? | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | seems perfectly clear to me! | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | well, lots of things that I have no idea about essentially | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | I'm sure it does, lol | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | overloading a craft? shredding recipe? | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | managed to make your book yet ? | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | just to name the two things popping out | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh, have you noticed what happens when you put high quality items in the craft ? | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | I wasn't in game, lol, just came back | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, something I noticed,but I wouldn't say I truly understood it, lol | [11:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, that's overloading the craft. | [11:09] |
| diana_coman: | good to kno | [11:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | generally anything that results in a bundle with q > 100 is overloading hte craft. | [11:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | some processes allow you to do it with the items ("add 1 to 10 of X"). if you add 10 you're overloading it. | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | REALLY glad to know, since I was actually doing it but I had no idea what it was I was doing :))) | [11:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | and overloaded crafts loot, which is why you get a ton of recipes when you make rope out of q 150 grass, but not so many if using q 99 grass | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, that I noticed but all I could grasp was essentially that well, you put more into it than what you get as an item,hence it adds the loot | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty much | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | i guess all these mechanics should be on wiki huh | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | trouble is that basically I am not really sure of many things and therefore I'm not going to add to the wiki "I'm grasping at straws here, but it seems to me that ..." | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | maybe I should, who knows | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | what are you sure of, quantum mechanics ? | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | lol, "sure" as in above a personal threshold for that | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | "tested the hypothesis to my satisfaction" | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | o you have :D | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | knowledge proceeds from the efforts of the unsure, and is lost through the bloviations of the certain. | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, the mechanics is as follows : you need some ingredients, which make a bundle, which yields a fixed product. | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | all this is specified in nominal terms, which is to say taking q 100 items. | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you use higher q ingredients, your bundle will end up q > 100. | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you use more ingredients than the minimum, bundle idem. | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you have a bundle nominally worth 10000 making a product nominally worht 10000, but the bundle is q 115 and the product is q 105, then that 1000 goes somewhere. | [11:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | and it returns in the shape of something. maybe. | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | perfect, thank you | [11:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile if the reverse is true, and your bundle is merely q 95, the 1k you're straight out extracting out of the game. | [11:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | so in a certain sense, it is advantageous to be a noob : take 3 grass q 30 so worth 20 each, make one thread q 105 so worth 200. you turned 60 into 200 | [11:23] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I tested that too, certainly :p | [11:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | so it's just not so simply cut, "noob bad, vet good" or anything. cheaper is not necessarily better. more expensive is not necessarily better. | [11:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | and so on | [11:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | obviously if one was going to do away with the boring liniarity which leads necessarily to the rpg grind, one also has to do with the inequalities that underpin it. | [11:25] |
| jurov: | yes, i thought something like that but it was hard to pat down, and i was like, "oh that is going to change several times anyway" | [11:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | so instead of inequalities there's now ambiguities. | [11:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov amusingly, that's not changing. | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | I think jurov summed up very well the main trouble - the changing, as I see no reason for this to change | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | inequality of knowledge, the most painful inequality ever, lol | [11:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | I'll add it to the wiki then | [11:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway. there's still going to be a lot of clicking, but the "i'm level 50, should be hitting lvl 50 rats" thing doesn't exist. | [11:27] |
| jurov: | diana add there that if you get negative quality items, don't even think to craft with them | [11:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | also the "A noob could never kill a dragon" thing won't exist. and so on. | [11:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov how do you keep getting those anyway ? | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | ok jurov, will add that | [11:28] |
| jurov: | we had amusing convo about this with chetty just before you joined | [11:28] |
| jurov: | i was bewildered why she accepts them into the db in first place | [11:29] |
| jurov: | and reply was | [11:29] |
| jurov: | <chetty> I find having the negatives there rather helpful in tracking down and eliminating them | [11:29] |
| jurov: | i'm afraid i caused quite a foul mood to her | [11:30] |
| jurov: | and as for exactly how, by very quick keyboard mining i was able to overdraw the tools | [11:30] |
| jurov: | (quite reliably) | [11:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | very quick keyboard mining ? | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | interesting | [11:31] |
| jurov: | move, Enter, arrow up, enter, Enter, move.... | [11:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | oic. | [11:31] |
| chetty: | server restart in 5 | [11:31] |
| mod6: | the shortcut for that helps a lot, instead of: mouse to command window, *click*, move hands to keyboard, enter /explore, move mouse outside of command window, *click*, move hands back to keyboard for arrow keys to move. | [11:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | way i've been doing it was just move and hit enter twice | [11:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i guess i always was kind-of lazy about it myself. | [11:38] |
| mod6: | ooo, [Enter] 2x does the trick 'eh. lol i never realized this. | [11:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [11:41] |
| chetty: | up | [11:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | so i'd set it on autorun and just hit double enter sometimes | [11:41] |
| mod6: | i gotta try this lol. | [11:46] |
| jurov: | oh that. then it says "exploring failed cuz you moved" occassionally | [11:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | yea it does. | [11:51] |
| jurov: | chetty can you please look if i have any neg quality stuff on me? | [14:39] |
| jurov: | i have checked every item but that i did last time, too | [14:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | looks | [14:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | nope. | [14:41] |
| jurov: | thanks | [14:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | aand putting finishing touches on one monster of a s.mg report. | [15:27] |
| jurov: | dividends!!! | [15:36] |
| jurov: | ? | [15:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | lobbes what was your logger at again ? | [16:43] |
| lobbes: | mircea_popescu, you can find it here: http://192.121.170.137/eulora/latest.log.html | [16:44] |
| lobbes: | soon to have an actual domain name | [16:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | ty | [16:49] |
| jurov: | got Improved Cruddy Hoe Plans | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | wow, well done jurov | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | I've found a book of lists | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | which however seems to be VERY mysterious, as I can't see any effect of it, lol | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | ha, it hadn't updated, lol | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | so I got the bouquinism bug | [17:13] |
| chetty: | cool | [17:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | wd! | [17:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | both of ya. | [17:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | o hey so you can make your book now diana ? | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | well, if I find the recipes and ingredients for everything I need, yes | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | cool. | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | overload the shit out of it so you don't end up with a dead line. | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | will try | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | as you're atm the only one with a recipe which means the only one able to start that entire craftline | [17:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | (and yes, this will be a recurring thing) | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | I see | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | wow, I should try to get going on it then | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | though I think it will take some time | [17:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | hey, it's your game. | [17:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | enjoy it. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | I still found some murky somethings - I thought they were gone? | [17:30] |
| jurov: | noone picked them up | [17:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | they stopped spawning | [17:33] |
| lobbesbot: | New post: http://trilema.com/category/smg/feed/ MiniGame (S.MG), June 2015 Statement <http://trilema.com/2015/minigame-smg-june-2015-statement/> | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | ah, ok, I picked them up and will store them; if they are still useful, maybe some noobs will ask for them | [17:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | certainly still useful. | [17:35] |
| jurov: | haha sale of food and drink | [17:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | wut. | [17:37] |
| diana_coman: | I am curious if a player gets sufficiently lucky to actually significantly drain any of the poolsix and another time <<--- there's a footnote gone silly there | [17:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | fixed | [17:40] |
| jurov: | i meant the last footnote, Eulora will finance itself through the sale of food and drin | [17:43] |
| jurov: | k | [17:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | no i know. is this bad ? | [17:43] |
| jurov: | no only funny | [17:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | especially seeing the sort of mollusc cheeses we have in store... | [17:44] |
| chetty: | server reset in 5 | [17:44] |
| chetty: | done,up | [17:49] |
| diana_coman: | it says that the server isn't ready? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | chetty, is that just my client? | [17:57] |
| jurov: | not ready from here, too | [18:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | lookin | [19:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov still ? | [19:07] |
| jurov: | no, it works now | [19:14] |
| jurov: | haha janitor got overzealous, claims freshly mined just before shutdown all gone | [19:15] |
| jurov: | musta lock everythign | [19:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | well it's a timer. | [19:16] |
| jurov: | and looks like i must wait still for a second after /explore? | [19:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. | [19:21] |
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