| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: http://ossasepia.com/2020/02/18/strutting-waving-and-skin-sharing-euloras-defaults/#comment-7624 | [09:25] |
| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: re bones, there's actually more to it; I had ~same idea initially on a naive pass but that's precisely why I played around with Cally, namely to figure out how those "bones" work for graphics because it's not all as straightforward as it seems; anyway, it's a bit too early to set already number of bones just out of "how it seems it should be", tbh. | [09:35] |
| diana_coman: | those past days I've been reading and looking and figuring out what I need so I can start on the sort of generator you want; it's not that I'm stuck or anything - and if I do get stuck, I'll shout promptly. | [09:36] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw re unexpecteds - there's a bone for instance in that ...pony tail! | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | heh | [09:37] |
| mp_en_viaje: | aha | [10:16] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i know there is ; i'm saying there's no real need to. i can live w/o pony tails. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: on a basic level, the more bones there are, the more fine-tuned the movements; so I suspect the "minimum number of bones" is going to be found with a bit of trial and error really, more along the lines of what's the minimum we can live with, sort of thing; fwiw cally actually has 37 bones. | [10:26] |
| mp_en_viaje: | aha | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | the above being said, it's worth noting that the "final result" or "how it looks" is not all that simply related to just bones or not even fundamentally to bones in the end | [10:28] |
| mp_en_viaje: | im sure. complexity is rather driven by bone count i expect | [10:28] |
| mp_en_viaje: | or w/e, size | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | because there's a lot to where in the meshes the bones are placed (as in the volume of a mesh) + the part that I think matters even *more*, to the exact influences defined for each bone on connected meshes | [10:28] |
| mp_en_viaje: | as well as specific differences. the more bones there are, as a count, the more inter-species difference (if we define, as we should, species by bone structure) | [10:29] |
| diana_coman: | I suspect it's more on those influences than on bones as such | [10:29] |
| diana_coman: | yes, species certainly by bone structure, I don't quite see anything else that makes sense otherwise | [10:29] |
| mp_en_viaje: | aha. yet another thing set in stone! | [10:29] |
| mp_en_viaje: | ultimately i expect a model may be composed out of species (ie, skeleton) and mesh pile (ie, individual characteristics) | [10:30] |
| mp_en_viaje: | with relatively few skeletons and relatively numerous mesh groupings. | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | heh; honestly, I did read a lot of yuck those days but I needed to read even this sort of yuck because it gives me a better grasp of the whole, yuck included. | [10:30] |
| mp_en_viaje: | aha | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: the way I see it, individual characteristics are likely to be even more easily defined by tweaks to those influences really; the way I see it, think of how each person has a posture and way of moving - those make to the eye a lot of difference really, even if the mesh at rest is identical (it won't seem identical because the influences deform it differently) | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | essentially I'd aim to go first for the *smallest* changes that matter rather than radical stuff, because radical stuff is more likely to just break the working and not even deliver; that being said, once I get something concrete going, I can always *try* whatever and try I will. | [10:33] |
| diana_coman: | after all, what's the point of making it if not to try and break it too, sure. | [10:33] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i do not think taking it as far as posture and way of moving is worth our money. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | the currently annoying part though is the nonsense of reading the stuff from cal3d format, either binary or xml - while I could in principle plan to make the generator spit that format, it makes way more sense to be able to just plug the values in the code really | [10:34] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i'll be perfectly happy with identical postures and ways of moving, and all difference consisting of mesh parameters and bone length / angles. | [10:35] |
| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: that's not a part you can wave as such ie whether you plan to experiment with it or not, you still *have* to decide on one "posture" | [10:35] |
| diana_coman: | and there's no way to decide so it's *anyway* experimenting | [10:35] |
| mp_en_viaje: | yes, but one for all pcs. one for all goblins. one per skeleton basically. | [10:35] |
| mp_en_viaje: | i suppose there is that yes | [10:35] |
| diana_coman: | mp_en_viaje: I don't see why or how do you think it's eating up more resources/different than the reast tbh | [10:36] |
| mp_en_viaje: | now that's a good point. | [10:36] |
| mp_en_viaje: | what the hell's the difference, huh. | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | I agree that it might turn out upon experimentation that no, it doesn't work/do well; but it might as well turn out it...does; and it's anyway in there like the rest so might as well try it too, what. | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | aha. | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | other than that, I have to admit I'm still rather fuming at those segfaults in cal3d when I tried to just plug in a mesh from a different char, grrr | [10:37] |
| mp_en_viaje: | yeah, that'll have to be drained | [10:39] |
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