| Birdman: | switched barehanding spots and im hitting ords more frequently | [00:29] |
| Birdman: | i did level up once, but i doubt that would make the difference | [00:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | well more are nice fo sho | [00:32] |
| alikim: | diana: http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/Little-Bit-O-Nothings.html tell me pls are any of these crafted items or are they all recipes? | [05:23] |
| alikim: | mircea: the problem with your thinking (and you may not see it as such) is that you can not accept a system that has a genaral absolute rule w/o exceptions. I'm telling you no slave can be rich and you change the premise by adding a backdoor and saying, well if you knee at the rigt place at the right time you can. | [05:23] |
| alikim: | So if you can not find that back door and stay poor it's you who fuck it up and that's your fault, so you are too "dumb" to get rich. And you are absolutly right. But the premise is, slaves do not get rich, no exeptions. | [05:23] |
| alikim: | You do not believe that ther is a situation where all people of certain class/kind are prohibited from achieveing something (from birth), you believe there is always a back door for some, "the smart" ones. | [05:24] |
| alikim: | Which is essentially very like new thought premise: no matter where you are now and what the situation is, you can get anywhere you want from there if you know how (to find a backdoor). | [05:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim lbn is crafted by shredding maculature. | [05:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | they are also produced by key decay. | [05:28] |
| alikim: | I'm asking about that long list of "ingredients" on that page, are those blueprints or crafted items? | [05:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | on the other point : the canonical term for what you describe is the no true scotsman fallacy, but obviously i don't agree it's in play. | [05:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim the 1-99 items list ? those are all recipes, they are the ingredients for the bundle (called maculature i) | [05:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | the -9999 stuff i have nfi what it is, looks like a bug on diana_coman 's site. | [05:30] |
| diana_coman: | jeez, I explained several times | [05:30] |
| diana_coman: | it's for unknown items | [05:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | o sorry, i musta missed it ? | [05:30] |
| diana_coman: | when it doesn't know the item, it has to put something there | [05:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | slag recipe is unknown ?! | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | could put "N/A" | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | what? | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | as recipe yes | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | it doesn't know it bv | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | I don't have any bv for recipes taken by the bot | [05:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh i c. | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | it calculates all bv | [05:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | first time i saw this, nm me. | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | and it does it for crafted items, not for recipes | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | alikim, those there are recipes; the bits of nothing are made out of shredding recipes basically or otherwise using an existing maculature bundle | [05:32] |
| alikim: | so if I put all recipes on this list into a screen I will craft maculature, which I then shred to bits? | [05:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim more generally, yes i reject the premise of embodied absolutes. this has no more to do with "new thought" than with plain catolicism. moreover, the notion of imanent transcedence is ridiculous on its face, and readily taken apart. | [05:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes. | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | alikim, all crafting is a two-step process basically: ingredients get mixed into a bundle which then gets further processed into the final item | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | maculature is the bundle for bits | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | so yes | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | in interesting data facts: I am making bundles 204 q for io using wm q1 | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | ha | [05:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | ltf is most of it neh ? | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | long live the 724q boulders and 222 q ltf | [05:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | and some 261q moss but yeah | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: I have a load of q1 wm and not that many high q ones | [05:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty cool. | [05:37] |
| alikim: | diana: do I need a kind of enumeration/blueprint in mind for processing bundle into the final item? | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | yes | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | and for making the bundle in the first place | [05:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | remember the old days of weaker balance when you'd actually bow out of making that shaped slags into tools so i could extract more durability in the finished product ? :D | [05:38] |
| diana_coman: | the enum gets destroyed when you make the final item (only then, not at bundle time, but you still need it in your mind) | [05:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | in this case it's called a shredding instruction | [05:38] |
| diana_coman: | myeah, I still remember *all* the imbalances :p | [05:38] |
| alikim: | kk thanks | [05:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | ah, mircea_popescu I gather I got the bits and some cons from the auction? | [05:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | so you did. | [05:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | come pick 'em up | [05:41] |
| alikim: | mircea: ok I'm just curious about what you thinking is based on | [05:41] |
| diana_coman: | I'm in town | [05:41] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, says you busy | [05:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | enjoy | [05:44] |
| diana_coman: | thanks! | [05:44] |
| diana_coman: | I already ate a quarter of the previous pile of bits, lol | [05:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | 10mnish off a private auction, not too terribru | [05:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm guessing i should prolly offer moar bits huh. | [05:45] |
| diana_coman: | my bot is hungry, yes :)) | [05:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | AUCTION : 1 stack lbn q 259 + 1 stack lbn q 232 + 7897 lbn q 203. opening 3mn | [05:48] |
| diana_coman: | 3mn | [05:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | AUCTION : 1 stack lbn q 259 + 1 stack lbn q 232 + 7897 lbn q 203. 3mn heard diana_coman | [05:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | AUCTION : 1 stack lbn q 259 + 1 stack lbn q 232 + 7897 lbn q 203. 3mn heard diana_coman ETA 17:00 ART | [05:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim what do you mean ? | [05:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, we'll continue this later, im off to bed. | [05:54] |
| danielpbarron: | mircea_popescu> you trading them for product ? << sure | [06:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron mk so give me 5k bps and ima give you 2k of the resulting coals ? | [07:13] |
| danielpbarron: | no wai | [07:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | well... i gotta pay for all the toolkits / ingredients somehow... | [07:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | you get the whole batch at 150\% bv ? | [07:22] |
| danielpbarron: | 4.5x | [07:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm ? | [07:24] |
| alikim: | mircea: things like that i reject the premise of embodied absolutes | [07:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, this is a fairly obvious point, but i don't really know enough about your background to pick a good or even decent statement for it. | [07:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | suppose you came up with a way to make a perpetuum mobile ; or with a notation that'll allow you to write ALL numbers in a finite space, or such wonders. | [07:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'd laugh at you, for the same reason i laugh at you when you think there can be such a thing as an absolute caste system. | [07:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | or for that matter an absolute conspiracy, or what have you. | [07:33] |
| alikim: | I mean I saw this rejection behind you rlogic and you confirmed it, so it explains what you are saying to me | [07:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [07:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway. even the absolute caste system does nothing much to support your argument. yes it's possible that on some island somewhere there live some inexplicable retards who believe they are coconuts, and nothing that may occur can change their notions. notwithstanding that their perpetuation is imporbable - so what ? you're not one of them, nor am i, nor do we have any reason to care about this improbable, remote and certainly | [07:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | irrelevant construct. | [07:40] |
| alikim: | well, we were talking about slaves, the point was to accept the premise that if you are born slave you can not be rich by the fact of your birth | [07:43] |
| alikim: | absolute rule | [07:43] |
| alikim: | &item homunculus | [07:44] |
| euporium: | I know nothing of homunculus | [07:44] |
| danielpbarron: | alikim, you're the one who came up with this "absolute rule" | [07:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | the twist here being, of course, that i actually keep slaves. | [07:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | but obviously, of a different kind. | [07:46] |
| alikim: | yes, the whole argument happened because I came up with that rule to explain how being poor might not be your fault and mircea doesn't not believe in absolute rules | [07:46] |
| alikim: | diana: what is homunculus? I only see it as an ingredient but there is no recipe for crafting it? | [07:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | in any case : there doesn't exist a society in recorded history that kept slaves and their offspring didn't end up rulers at some point or another. | [07:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | one of the better illustrations is perhaps the ottoman empire. the rulers of which never entertained intimatelly anything BUT slaves. | [07:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | well... until roxana, at any rate. | [07:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | more generally speaking, all men are born slaves, no matter what they'd like to pretend. if there isn't a way to get out of it, then civilisation simply ends, as there isn't a way to populate the next tier. | [07:50] |
| alikim: | mircea: again it's all been put into a system in new thought, namely everything that happens to you in your life is your doing, choices you made or rather didn't made anyway you put it, as I said before that validates your logic and makes you right, there is nothing to argue about here ofr me | [07:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | not your doing ; your responsibility. rather different concepts. | [07:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | your doing is this mildly offensive mystic thing, a la power of seduction or what's it called. | [07:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron what did you mean 4.5 ? | [07:53] |
| alikim: | well, you can not be responsible for things you can not do anything about | [07:54] |
| danielpbarron: | mircea_popescu, 450\% | [07:55] |
| danielpbarron: | alikim, sure you can | [07:55] |
| alikim: | like what? | [07:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | like anything you're responsible for lol. | [07:56] |
| danielpbarron: | for example, you are held responsible for not believing in God even though it is the same God who caused you to not believe | [07:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | the notion that "can" is a bar to responsibility is entirely unsuportable. | [07:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | "oh i shouldn't be responsible for shitting in the street, i couldn't keep myself" | [07:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | hurr. | [07:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron you want to pay me 450\% on coals ?! | [07:56] |
| alikim: | no it's not what I meant | [07:57] |
| danielpbarron: | i'm fine with making them myself; I have lots of surplus reeds and thorns to burn through | [07:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah ok. | [07:57] |
| danielpbarron: | gotta re-jigger the bot to swap out chairs for head | [07:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | o hey, put all those btks to good use | [07:58] |
| alikim: | what is homunculus? an item or a blueprint/recipe? | [07:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | prolly a resource. | [08:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway : every living thing is responsible to feed and breathe. failure to do so is rewarded by death. whether it can or it can't is entirely immaterial. the notion of responsibility you apparently employ is a degenerate substitute, of a conventional rather than ontological nature. it comes from taxation, as the common sense observation that the wise ruler doesn't load the camels or the people above what they may carry. | [08:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | the camels so loaded refuse to raise, and the people so loaded whine about how "they shouldn't be responsible about things they can't do anything about" | [08:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | whatevers, ruler also has the ability to provide them the simple choice of lift the load or be cut down where you stand. | [08:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | tis a camel's notion of responsibility | [08:05] |
| alikim: | mircea: can you be responsible for the fact that your eye are blue? | [08:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | if it ever comes to it, you will be, yes. | [08:07] |
| alikim: | I see | [08:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | who's to provide you immunity ? if i tomorrow announce all with non-blue eyes get a widget, who's going to give you a widget ? | [08:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | obviously, socialism proposes "sharing", mostly as an attempt to subvert the obvious power of anyone giving widgets. it works for as long as it does. | [08:09] |
| alikim: | I understand how your logic works, I do not share it, but I understand it | [08:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | "we're going to make a law against such discrimination!!! it's unfair!" "and who's going to enforce it ?" "we are!!1" "you might discover you have better things to do." | [08:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | aite! | [08:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | care to share how your logic works, so i can not share it myself ? | [08:11] |
| alikim: | haha | [08:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [08:11] |
| alikim: | I believe in the mix of things you can change and be held responsible for and things that are cast upon you by the environment that you can not change and can not be responsible for. | [08:13] |
| alikim: | so "all poor people are too dumb to get rich" doesn't stand for me | [08:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | and how do you draw the line ? as feels convenient that day ? | [08:14] |
| alikim: | if I don't see how someone could change something I consider it unchangable, so yeah, the line is drawn at my level of intellect | [08:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | and doesn't it worry you, to be one in possession of such ego, as to think yourself the grand arbiter of everything ? | [08:15] |
| alikim: | how els you personally ever judge things? | [08:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | especially on the shaky basis of being captive this side of the combinatorial explosion cone. da fuck do you know who did what to whom causing which etc. | [08:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, i don't judge things. i always blame the victim and that's good enough for me. it is, you see, impersonal. | [08:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | once you make it personal you take a pretty serious bite. | [08:17] |
| alikim: | to blame the victim you need to judge it first and find guilty | [08:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | nope. you need just observe it's the victim, and apply the simple rule "victim's always at fault" | [08:17] |
| alikim: | and to be the victim | [08:17] |
| alikim: | "victim" is already judgement | [08:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | used here for shorthand. object, if you prefer, in the agent-object relation. | [08:18] |
| alikim: | well, you need to decide which object to blame | [08:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | (incidentally this neatly ties into the feminine-masculine debate. it'd be a world made by mediocre women that'd attempt to move things around.) | [08:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim every verb takes an agent and an object. for each verb, you blame the object. | [08:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | [who] did [to whom]. | [08:19] |
| alikim: | you don't know who did to whom and what, from your level of understanding you make this personal assumption that someone did something to someone else. keyword personal | [08:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, if the whom complains, then i have basis. and otherwise if all's silent i am unlikely to care. | [08:22] |
| alikim: | nothing you personally do is impersonal | [08:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | that happens to neatly translate to EXACTLY my view of responsibility :) | [08:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, there is no such thing as "being poor", an impersonal. poverty is a very personal deed by the poor in question. | [08:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | takes as much maintenance as anything else. | [08:23] |
| alikim: | well, we started with me explaining my point of view and ended up with you explaining yours again | [08:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | did we. hm. | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | alikim, homunculus is not yet found/known, but given that electron has bundles for it, I'd say it was a resource | [08:24] |
| alikim: | diana: you have it as an ingredient so I asked | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | how does that make sense? | [08:24] |
| diana_coman: | it is on a recipe, so...? | [08:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | which recipe is it ? | [08:25] |
| alikim: | I thought you have crafted the item | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | I remember it is on one, but I have no idea which | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | ?? | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | alikim, items crafted are what you get following the recipe | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | the ingredients however can be resources or crafted items or even recipes themselves | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | so if it's in there, it's because I saw a recipe that listed it as ingredient, but that's all | [08:26] |
| alikim: | yes, I thought since you have the recipe you might have used it | [08:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | which recipe is it ?! | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | alikim, can you tell which recipe it is? | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | or uhm, let me grep I suppose | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | atrocius stinkbomb | [08:27] |
| alikim: | Atrocious Stinkbomb | [08:27] |
| diana_coman: | long live grep | [08:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | check that shit out. | [08:27] |
| alikim: | &item Atrocious Stinkbomb | [08:27] |
| euporium: | Atrocious Stinkbomb Sketch cat: Blueprints base value: 9973 | [08:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | xpensive too | [08:27] |
| diana_coman: | ha, I could *infer* the bv of that homunculus, lol | [08:28] |
| alikim: | &item Old Apron Lint | [09:18] |
| euporium: | I know nothing of Old Apron Lint | [09:18] |
| alikim: | this is also some inknown item I guess | [09:18] |
| alikim: | used in Various Ladle Handless | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | neah, that's numina | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | relatively new , hence euporium has no idea | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | numina is a category and includes bits of nothing, as well as feelings, sentiments shards, etc | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | the gemstone shards I mean | [09:19] |
| alikim: | oh ok | [09:20] |
| diana_coman: | aspirations too | [09:20] |
| alikim: | these are all numina? Indescript Gemstone Dust, Brave Mans Petrified Feelings, Collected Library Dusts | [09:26] |
| diana_coman: | yes | [09:28] |
| alikim: | ok I have these 3 left to make it work Questionable Flagon, Assorted Library Mites, Petrified Bubble | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | the first two are numina | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | the last one is a mining resource | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | I think it's in the cookbook too for that matter | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/Petrified-Bubble.html | [09:48] |
| alikim: | interesting, I think it's not listed anywhere else on the list of mining resources | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | like where else? | [09:51] |
| diana_coman: | oh, you mean the wiki? | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | it's newly found basically | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, I update my pages more than the wiki I suppose | [09:52] |
| alikim: | yeah the wiki | [09:52] |
| diana_coman: | update the wiki if you are on it anyway | [09:53] |
| alikim: | 43136 coppers? I think canine is the most expensive at 5411 | [09:54] |
| alikim: | that's monstrous | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | it's gigantic! | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | lol, but yes, it is more expensive | [09:56] |
| alikim: | one bubble and you set for life | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | and fwiw I'm sure those things that are not yet found are even MORE expensive | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | bwahahah, neah | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [10:03] |
| alikim: | in your table | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | link? | [10:03] |
| alikim: | http://www.dianacoman.com/Eulora/Tinkerers-Petrified-Aspirationss.html | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | hm, something went bad there, will check, thanks | [10:04] |
| alikim: | kk thanks let me know | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | hm, I think the bp is not really standard and it got the bot confused, hence it did not read it properly | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | afraid I can't do much about it as I don't have that bp - I just had a look at it at the auction | [10:07] |
| alikim: | ok I'll skip it | [10:24] |
| alikim: | I just realised since you only bid on existing offers you market sell and buy price is the same | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | there are unfilfilled bids for sure if that's what you don't see | [10:28] |
| alikim: | yeah but you can't bid below starting value right? | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | I don't quite follow | [10:31] |
| alikim: | can you post bids here on w/e you want to buy? | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | of course you can, why not? | [10:32] |
| alikim: | ah ok | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | and people have in their shops basically precisely that | [10:32] |
| alikim: | ok, after tons of cleanup it finally works. doesn't have prices yet except basic ones but they can easily be added later as well as decay on tools: http://i.imgur.com/Qg1kiN7.jpg | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | do you have it online somewhere? | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | so: a link rather than a picture for it? | [10:36] |
| alikim: | no it's a desktop software | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | mk | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | guess I'll just modify the tiny script to spit out the tree when it is a tree | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | shouldn't be a big thing | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | why are there negative values? | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | as in: -85.1 for tuber bread? | [10:39] |
| alikim: | no real market prices | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [10:39] |
| alikim: | that's profit btw | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: flatbread yeah, nobody needs it now, but pointy clump of slag and all sorts.. | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, how do you calculate profit? | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | so you say that tools (stone adze and the like) have a negative profit of ~611 coppers? when just a day ago a batch sold at more than 140\% base value? | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | bwahahahah | [10:41] |
| alikim: | normally it would download current market prices, then decide which ingredients are cheaper to craft and which cheaper to buy and then after adding auction fees to the equation, it tells you the profit if you sell it back to market | [10:41] |
| alikim: | right now as I said before there are no prices so basically it's just crafting trees | [10:42] |
| alikim: | I can port it so it's online but w/o automatic market it won't make much sense | [10:44] |
| alikim: | I just wanted to roughtly wrap my head around the crafting structure so I'm happy with that for now | [10:45] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, the problem to solve is at that end: getting market values in | [10:45] |
| diana_coman: | aha, k | [10:45] |
| diana_coman: | so are you going to play now? | [10:46] |
| alikim: | also I can see quickly what I can craft from what I have | [10:46] |
| alikim: | now I'm gonna eat ;) | [10:47] |
| alikim: | next step is zer bot | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | oh, I thought you did that already | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | heh, enjoy your meal then | [10:47] |
| alikim: | zer bot for finding zer stone bubbles | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | ahahahahah | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | curious if you find that, lol | [10:47] |
| alikim: | I'm impressed by tt value | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | and it is currently useful too, yes | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | how can you see what you can craft with what you have from your thing? | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | it seems to go the other way around, no? | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | as in: what you need to craft X not what you can craft with Y | [10:49] |
| diana_coman: | (that's precisely why I added that "used in: " thing at the bottom of each page) | [10:49] |
| alikim: | well it's db so I can see what ever I want, takes one line of code with select | [10:49] |
| diana_coman: | oh, in that sense, lol | [10:50] |
| diana_coman: | one line of select *each* time you want to see ...the same thing | [10:50] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, wonders of db | [10:50] |
| alikim: | I'm gonna add a button that outputs my possesions from ingame storage and then this software will eat it and tell me my options | [10:50] |
| diana_coman: | that would be more useful | [10:50] |
| alikim: | the biggest advantage of db is that there are no lost or missing items or w/e inconsistencies, as well as threeleaf clover, three-leaf clover, three leaf clover, leaf clover etc. | [10:52] |
| alikim: | all is clean | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | that's not *due* to db | [10:52] |
| alikim: | it's all revealed when you try to make tables out of text files | [10:53] |
| alikim: | you just get error or w/e | [10:53] |
| diana_coman: | no alikim , it's all revealed in that sense when you try to automate some process using those files | [10:53] |
| diana_coman: | it's the "automated" part that can't cope with inconsistencies hence it flags them up | [10:53] |
| diana_coman: | but it's an interesting kind of reason for "needing" a db, will grant that | [10:54] |
| alikim: | I can give you the db and php scripts that build trees if you like | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | I suppose it's also indeed what the relational-model community has kept selling as one of the main "benefits" of the model to start with, yeah | [10:59] |
| alikim: | you just need something to run them together | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | wait, what, are you saying now that a database is "something to run" things together? | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | a database stores stuff and yes, it can be central to something but it hardly runs things together, ugh | [11:01] |
| alikim: | well I use this to "run things together" you will need something like https://github.com/cztomczak/phpdesktop | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | that's NOT a db ffs | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | by the looks of it, it's an IDE the likes of visual studio | [11:04] |
| alikim: | ofc not I didn't say it is | [11:04] |
| alikim: | you just need something to run them together << SQLite + webserver with PHP | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | build trees are static basically do wtf would I need a db for them? really? | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | to just build them every time ? | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | why? | [11:05] |
| alikim: | you don't | [11:07] |
| alikim: | I can give you the db and php scripts that build trees if you like, that's it | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | maybe put them on the wiki then if you want to share them? | [11:07] |
| diana_coman: | I personally don't see the need for them, but others might want to use them, who knows | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | or on your own website or on github | [11:08] |
| danielpbarron: | diana_coman> hm, something went bad there, will check, thanks << that was the one that bugged out and let me make a 600+ quality aspiration | [12:25] |
| diana_coman: | aha, so it was probably truly empty at the time the bot read it | [12:26] |
| diana_coman: | poor bot | [12:26] |
| danielpbarron: | alikim> ok, after tons of cleanup it finally works. << your image showing supplication of mysterious rocks is not correct, in that there is no longer a way to directly create any of the supplications | [12:27] |
| diana_coman: | loot is rather difficult to represent, huh | [12:27] |
| danielpbarron: | yes but his thing shows the old way to make supplications using brews and vellums | [12:30] |
| diana_coman: | ah, apparently I still have it on the site as such, I kept adding stuff, not deleting it | [12:32] |
| diana_coman: | good point, will mark those as obsolete I suppose | [12:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | damn, eulora logs larger than trilema logs by nao | [12:41] |
| diana_coman: | lol, I was thinking of pinging phf on the database discussion to move some of it there | [12:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | ima get through it in an hour or so. atm going to memorialize the free will / predetermination discussion, i like it. | [12:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://trilema.com/2016/but-what-about-the-slave/ < alikim would you like your site linked off your name ? | [13:54] |
| diana_coman: | "Poverty is a very personal deed by the poor in question" - given the rest, it sounds more like a very personal characteristic than a deed; as it stands however it makes me curious: who/what is the object here then mircea_popescu ? | [14:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | where tho ? | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | it's a deed by the poor in question so the poor is the subject doing this deed; or not? | [15:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | there is such a thing as a reflexive verb. | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | heh | [15:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you piss yourself in the mouth you're the pisser and the pissee. | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | and your own master :D | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | the very definition of a free man or what | [15:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | sure, why not. | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | just having fun, don't mind me | [15:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_gadfly! | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | lol! | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | the only thing here though is that it opens up the fact that ...either the subject is *also* to blame (being the same as the object) or otherwise one person can at the same time be held responsible for being poor (being the victim aka the object) and NOT responsible for it (being the subject) | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | and I suspect that this is in fact the difference that is made in the alternative, non-ontological approach | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | or perhaps I should say being at the same time at fault and not at fault, to use the terms in your post | [15:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | in reflexive cases the person of the subject is to blame through the circumstantial happenstance that it happens to be the object. much like in the case where a policeman is a rapist, the policeman in bob the rapist is blamed for the deeds of the rapist in bob the policeman. | [15:13] |
| diana_coman: | heh, so now there is an exception for reflexive cases basically? | [15:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | in any case, the duality is exactly how it works : yes the poor-as-object-of-their-own-stupidity ARE responsible for it, and hence are properly poor. | [15:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile, the poor-as-authors-of-their-own-poverty are NOT responsible for it, and hence more than welcome to continue with the idiocy qs. | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | the hence part is separate though , they are welcome to whatever | [15:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | which is also why this has to happen internally : once the idiot acquiesces to moving the lever in their head, AND THEN ONLY, can things change. | [15:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | but for as long as they're happy to continue, they're welcome to continue, and have no grounds of complaint. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | the point is that same person is both responsible and not responsible - usually people prefer (of course!) to focus on the non-responsible part basically, even without being able to define it | [15:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | more power to 'em! | [15:16] |
| Birdman: | vividly dreaming about clicking considerations last night o.O | [16:42] |
| diana_coman: | did you get any cool dream-loot at least? | [16:42] |
| Birdman: | oddly enough it was about the clicking of them, less about their product | [16:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | hahaha | [16:52] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman, are you selling any sb > 200q? and for how much? | [16:54] |
| Birdman: | i probably dont have more than 1k at that quality | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | sigh | [16:54] |
| diana_coman: | what q do you have? | [16:54] |
| Birdman: | ill go look now | [16:54] |
| Birdman: | i guess all i have is 543 at q178 and 140 q50 | [16:56] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, that won't do much seeing how they go 77 to one ppb and it's 3 ppbs for one single cs | [16:58] |
| Birdman: | yep | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | well, actually for 2 if high q, but still | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | oh well, guess I need to get sb now too | [16:58] |
| Birdman: | i think the sb is my least found basic | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | won't be ready to make more dt any time soon (need cs to get canines) | [16:58] |
| diana_coman: | oh, weird | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | or: where are you looking for it? | [16:59] |
| diana_coman: | rather, lol | [16:59] |
| Birdman: | at the wpl spot next to town, and where i am now over thousands of gathers i've found not a single sb enum | [17:00] |
| diana_coman: | ah, well, not surprising I suppose | [17:01] |
| danielpbarron: | you can also get canines if you loot supplications of stones | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | but that's quite interesting if not a single one as in not at all | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | well, I don't have altar and the like, so ...no canines from there | [17:02] |
| danielpbarron: | i found a spot that won't hit any basics but fruit and reeds | [17:02] |
| danielpbarron: | well i can click the supplication for you duh.. | [17:02] |
| Birdman: | how much are you willing to pay for canines diana_coman ? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | if I pay you more than it takes me to dig? | [17:03] |
| danielpbarron: | how do you know that will be the case? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | wasn't it 1mn you wanted for that danielpbarron ? | [17:03] |
| danielpbarron: | yeah so? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | so that's how many cs? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | 30? | [17:03] |
| danielpbarron: | 16? | [17:03] |
| diana_coman: | at what, 60k the cs? mk, let's say 16 | [17:04] |
| diana_coman: | I would expect at least one ord out of 16 tries, not to mention all the xp etc + at least 16 high q canines | [17:04] |
| Birdman: | what would you pay anyways though for a high q canine? | [17:05] |
| danielpbarron: | yeah but my click also comes with a token | [17:06] |
| Birdman: | i may be interested in having you click the consideration keeping the token, and ill keep the loot | [17:08] |
| Birdman: | just would only want to have to put up the supplication, no ingreds | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | hmm, I suppose Mircea's pricing works for me for buying purpose too, for grc q>=200; so 15k each + 150\% base value | [17:10] |
| danielpbarron: | i'm not offering that deal yet, Birdman | [17:12] |
| danielpbarron: | i need to know the token actually sells for what i want the clicks to be worth | [17:12] |
| Birdman: | well with this huge influx of consids i imagine its a name your price thing | [17:12] |
| Birdman: | assuming hanbot has or will eventually get her own in the meantime, if you stick to your 1mn/click price you might just end up being the loser | [17:13] |
| danielpbarron: | i think you might be able to get 15 canines out of a supplication, if you start with high enough quality wine | [17:15] |
| danielpbarron: | i haven't clicked one since the change though | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot, what are you charging for tokens now? | [17:17] |
| Birdman: | so probably some mega quality loots | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | and I got an sb ord, lol! | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | wd | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | well, let me see first what I get out of it | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | 180 at 269q | [17:28] |
| diana_coman: | not really overwhelming | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | interestingly enough I actually find mainly sb here, with occasional grass and very, very rare wpl | [17:35] |
| Birdman: | one more level till 400 gathering! | [20:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | omfg | [23:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | i looted 326 samovars | [23:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | THREE HUNDRED | [23:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | sixty million. | [23:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | 326 * 160k ea. | [23:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | AUCTION : 1 stack lbn q 259 + 1 stack lbn q 232 + 7897 lbn q 203. 3mn heard diana_coman ETA 17:00 ART <<< and sold, plox to meet me | [23:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim ok I have these 3 left to make it work Questionable Flagon << this is a crafted product, used to make memory something or the other. iirc mcguyver. | [23:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | alikim> I'm impressed by tt value << they're not really all that easy to find. | [23:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | but yes, find a tiny put in a lbn q 500, costs you a few hundred ECu, get out a stone, q 300, worth 100k ECu | [23:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman\x08>\x08\x0F I suppose it's also indeed what the relational-model community has kept selling << do i detect some chill ? | [23:32] |
| Birdman: | holy shit well done..! | [23:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | dude it's fucking epic... i set it to make samovars, go to bdsm event, come back im fulla bumstoves. | [23:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | it even stacked them for me, which is like the best part. | [23:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | i weigh like 1500 worth of samovars nao | [23:34] |
| Birdman: | bravo | [23:34] |
| Birdman: | guess the 3 i've been holding onto are pretty devalued | [23:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | ironically only got like 12k nosehairs | [23:35] |
| Birdman: | you live a pretty interesting life | [23:39] |
| Birdman: | bdsm parties aside, you just looted hundreds of dollars in a video game! | [23:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | ikr! | [23:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | one hell of a thursday. | [23:41] |
| Birdman: | what'd you do for oc? | [23:43] |
| Birdman: | low q bps? | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | well i only have kinda lowish (92) bps | [23:44] |
| Birdman: | bundle q? | [23:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | 200 | [23:45] |
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