| mircea_popescu: | aaand 500 pss already gone. | [00:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | my digestion capacities be a thing of wonder! | [00:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | in other news, turning wm 1 and sm 7 into io q 171, which is da feat of wonder. for sure highest io i made this year, and even the stuff before the previous q fix was only 200ish | [09:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | bodes well for a tool run, and some btk. more importantly : it turns out rare minerals (like the wm) should be still noob mined in low q ; and then rectified in a bundle with easier to high-q stuff (like ltf). | [09:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | what does it matter that 800 coppers of the 5.7k io bundle come in as only 10. that differential between q 100 wm and q 1 wm is readily rectified by a differential of only 20 q points in the 4k bv ltf. | [09:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | by the looks of it io takes me about 1'36 which means the 1k run will be just a shade over a full day. | [09:54] |
| diana_coman: | what q is the bp there? | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | 200something | [09:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's from those golden days | [09:59] |
| diana_coman: | aha, that's why you get so high q | [10:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | the bundle is 90 | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | I did a few runs of toolkit to get an idea | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | well, yeah, but still | [10:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | so: putting everything quite low (i.e. spent tools, cc q8 etc) | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | ends up with a bundle of 1q even so it's basically tools all the way and the rest for show pretty much | [10:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | the btk bundle iirc is like 60k bv | [10:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | 63 mebbe | [10:02] |
| diana_coman: | alternatively spent tools but high q ingredients make the bundle some 15q | [10:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | so it's mostly tool by value | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: same 200+ bp on the 15q bundle ends up as some 46k which yes it's still under 100 | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | but same bp on the 1q bundle ends up as...12k | [10:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | so 1 q point = 12k ; 15 q points = 3k each ? | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, toolkit bundle is 63k | [10:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | and 100 q points = 630 copper each | [10:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | seems very diminishing returns huh | [10:04] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, on the other hand, a very low q toolkit is a pain and moreover, the price of spent tools is kind of same anyway | [10:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | complicated. | [10:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | cuz yeah, the bp is burned anyway ; the tools idem. | [10:05] |
| diana_coman: | I'm not sure I see exactly much benefit to low q bps basically as they seem to mess up everything quite considerably and on the other hand if everything - or maybe as a way of getting high overcraft in crafting I suppose | [10:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | well that\s one | [10:06] |
| diana_coman: | (though stuck afterwards with the low q output AND getting the loot at low q too) | [10:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | maculature is another | [10:06] |
| diana_coman: | maculature? | [10:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah but maybe loot can be rectified via toil. | [10:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | i know my current high q numina bits for abc clicking started as quite lowly q 120ish | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | well, that part is something I really don't have the faintest idea about so what can I say | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | nothing , lol | [10:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | see cause at first the mites were missing, so i had to make some clicks on vellum to get it started | [10:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | that loot came out q 124 iirc. | [10:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | then put that through toil of bouq, got i dun recall, q 180 mites ? | [10:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | then put that through cons, got low 200s results | [10:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | retoil, etc, by now im at what, 270 ? | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | I somehow don't get how it is you were missing all sorts of numina that I know were around quite all right, maybe the timing was not right or something | [10:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | who had dusts > 120 last month ? not like i didn't ask! | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | ok, but what does that have to do with tinkering at large? | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | as I said: maybe timing was not right, as I know I have them now, lol | [10:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm ? | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | so: take ltf or whatever | [10:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | what's the highest level petrified feelings yo ugot ? | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | you can feed it high q input as much as you like | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | if you have a q8 bp | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | you'll obtain some q50 shit | [10:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | idem if at next stage you have some q8 bp again | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | more shit | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | lemme check | [10:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes, but if your bundle is q150 and you use q 8 bp you get A LOT of numina q 50 | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | which do you ...nothing | [10:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | which then you can make into quite respectable numina via toil of X | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | I have loads of those | [10:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | nanana. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | yaddayadda | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | what toil what respectable | [10:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | every time i make 21 mites, i burn 999 dusts. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | and still: wtf do you do with that shit of output? | [10:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | i had no problem using lower q numina in the toil process. | [10:12] |
| diana_coman: | look above, you asked what's the highest q numina I got, not lowest | [10:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | only because you were proposing to substitute toil-made numina to straight-looted. | [10:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you do that, you have to loot them high | [10:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you don't loot them high, you can always toil-rectify them | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | I don't see any market whatsoever for low q numina for one thing | [10:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'd buy dusts. | [10:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | that being atm the only cons process i run | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | I wasn't really proposing any numina stuf - you steered towards this ; as I said , it's an area I don't know | [10:13] |
| diana_coman: | I'm talking of what I know, namely that shitty bps are the doom of crafting lol | [10:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman> I don't see any market whatsoever for low q numina for one thing < ? | [10:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, they let you oc. | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | that's after mircea_popescu> only because you were proposing to substitute toil-made numina to straight-looted. | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | so ? | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [10:14] |
| diana_coman: | yes, oc low q numina for which etc | [10:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | so that's it lol. you have no use for it atm, ok, but what can i say ? | [10:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | lemme put it this way : whoever wins today's auction will want 5 * 50 * 1k = 250k numina. | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | is still going through ALL the bloody stores of feelings to see "high q" | [10:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is a factual matter. he might decide to wait or whatever, but still to use those bps he pretty much needs that much | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | I guess it would be some 446q | [10:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | how many stacks ya got ? | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | highest (I got bored of clicking through all) | [10:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | 446 is quite good! | [10:15] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, I know, but that's like 1 stack in what..20 minimum | [10:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | how the heck did you manage that one lol, q 700 bundle ? | [10:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | 250k is 25 stacks neh ? | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | can't quite recall specifically | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, let me count them ffs | [10:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol! | [10:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | ima talk to the devs about making the stacking work for higher numbers. | [10:16] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, counted 90 and there are more stacks! | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, whoever wins today's auction will want some 25 out of the 90+ stacks | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | kind of a quarter and I did not even try specifically to get all those numina | [10:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is a very odd complaint. strangely reminiscent of the "we have too many bps" complaint. | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | they are useless | [10:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | curious what it'll look like for xmas. | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | I'm not complaining that there are many | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | I'm complaining (if that's the right word anyway) that they are useless | [10:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | "they are useless" "actually they're used in droves for this" "i don't know nothing about that!" | [10:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | ooook ? | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | and moreover that low q bps are such a pain | [10:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, one can turn a low q and a high q bp into a pair of mid q bps. IF the diminishing returns thing is true, then this is a good move. | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | my remark that I don't know anything about that meant: hey, sure, there is some tiny thing inaccessible moreover which apparently uses them but you know, doesn't manage to make use of what there is even by far | [10:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | but one will have to balance the independent value of low q bps as generators of oc. | [10:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | basically, if (oc low q bp value) + (craft highq bp value) > 2 * (craft mid q bp value) then it's best to keep, else it's best to mix | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | I am sure that in the grand scheme of things and in the full model that you have in your head they are meant to be useful | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | sure | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | just that...that's in your head, you know | [10:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, how much tink numina are you selling ? | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | of the low q variety I'll sell 60 stacks no problem | [10:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | what q are those ? | [10:23] |
| diana_coman: | possibly even more, but I am being conservative to make sure I can dump them, lol | [10:23] |
| diana_coman: | 36q seems to be a good number around there (can't guarantee all 60 stacks at precisely this, but I see there are quite a few stacks at that) | [10:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | take 110\% ? | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and I did not even mention that I have yet to see a case (even considering the pops) when tinkering oc actually broke even | [10:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | that'll obviously depend on the numina pricez. | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | so it's like yes, oc to get low q numina and lose value surely and then you can sell that to kind of get some back; question is: why go through the trouble? | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | well, take that 110\% (qadjusted I suppose) | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | seeing how there seem to be too many numina low q esp and it's moreover so easy to get them | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | not sure why would anyone pay more than that | [10:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | well who knows these things! | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, accordingly, the danielpbarron strategy: hold everything and don't say a word; ha | [10:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [10:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | here's the other thing : low q bps are in stock, but not replenishable. | [10:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't know who will ever attempt to uc a cons, or how that'd work. | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I hope they are not replenishable | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | :p | [10:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | i have nfi how they'd replenish | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | use a noob | [10:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | to what ? | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | to click the cons, no? | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | get shit all over, but lots of shit | [10:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | for one thing, yoru cons will be high q, cuz i make them high q | [10:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | for the other, your bundle will be high q, right ? | [10:28] |
| diana_coman: | I can make it any q pretty much | [10:29] |
| diana_coman: | large range | [10:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | so if you make it low q, then you loot bupkiss and the cons still cost you 500k to 1mn | [10:29] |
| diana_coman: | I clearly can make higher q bundle than your cons so far | [10:29] |
| diana_coman: | nope, that's not the issue | [10:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, q 250+ bp, q 250+ bundle... oopsy. | [10:29] |
| diana_coman: | what bullshit, lol | [10:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm ? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | q250+bp, q350 bundle, noob -> loot | [10:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | really ? what does it get ? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | I mean ffs, I looted myself stuff, so how do you tell me a noob will loot less? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | or what? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | so he gets lower q but loots less? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | how does that work exactly? | [10:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | i just mean, if you make the bundle like q 20 or something. | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | I don't | [10:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | well if you make both bundle and bp high q seems the output will be high q | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | I said I have a large range, not that it makes sense to make it all q in it | [10:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | noob or no noob | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, no | [10:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm. | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | I already said several times I tried that and no | [10:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | well specifically ? | [10:31] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, probably specifically we should make those coordinated bundles and you'll see | [10:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | i dunno what i'll see, i have a pile of single-digit q bps here | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [10:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | and from what i've seen grenadine craft an' mine, you ain't never getting q < 50 or so, noob or no noob | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, since when is grenadine a noob now? | [10:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | well since when are you! " make those coordinated bundles and you'll see" << what!11 | [10:33] |
| diana_coman: | you'll see the difference given by character/skill | [10:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | since there is that difference clearly, I don't get it why you consider that no, it can't be that high q bp + high q bundle will result in low q output | [10:34] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, want to get that experiment done? | [10:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | yea. | [10:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | im in town. | [10:35] |
| diana_coman: | ok, let me get out what was it, high q beans and low q eps | [10:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suppose the problem is our understanding of "low". i was discussing very low, not middling-low | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | and I somehow can't quite get why you are so adamant that a total noob who doesn't even have the skill will somehow miraculously still get some q46 just on bp and bundle alone | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, *maybe* he won't get q1 | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | but you know, if grenadine by your own admission gets q50 | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | ... | [10:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, what's the lowest we've seen from noob miners ? | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | no noob miners around | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | since the change | [10:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | i didn't say "grenadine gets 50". i said "on what i've seen, i'd be surprised if anyone does" | [10:37] |
| diana_coman: | so we haven't seen anything | [10:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol everyone's scarpered ? | [10:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | aww. | [10:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | so what shall be low q bb ? q 58 suffice ? | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | sure, why not | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok how many im giving you ? 34 ? | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | so it was 1 lq bundle+lq bp, 1 lq bundle+hq bp, 1 hg bundle+hq bp, 1hq bundle+lq bp each, right? | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | so yes, I suppose that's for 2 low q bundles, yes | [10:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | and you need 66 low q eps, and 34 high q beans, right? | [10:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok so trade me for 34 bb low and 66 eps high | [10:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [10:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | good ? plox to not mix, i don't have more eps and they're a pain. | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | yes, I have stuff in the container separate | [10:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | now, i want 64 low eps! and 36 high bb. | [10:41] |
| diana_coman: | 64? lol | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | probably 66 | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | and 34 | [10:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | see cuz 32/33 | [10:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | and 17/18 | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | 31-33 | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | if that's what you are on | [10:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | then 62 o.O | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | 46q the eps and 222 the beans | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | that right? | [10:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | cool! | [10:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok we're ready to proceed! | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | will give you back the 2 extra eps at the end | [10:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | how are they extra ? | [10:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | 2*33 = 66! | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | ah,right | [10:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | let's do this | [10:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | announce what we craft for the other to approve before clicking | [10:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | so as not to accidentaly this. | [10:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | so i'm doing : q 50 bod bp, with 31 q 46 eps ; 17 q 58 bb and 1 q 122 ma. | [10:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | confirmed diana_coman ? | [10:46] |
| diana_coman: | confirmed | [10:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaand they're off! | [10:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | bundle is q 82 | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | will do same then: 1 bod bp at 50q, 17 beans at 58q, 31 eps at 46q, 1 ma 122q | [10:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | confirmt! | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | it will surely take me longer too, lol | [10:48] |
| diana_coman: | bundle q82? | [10:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | yup | [10:49] |
| diana_coman: | cool | [10:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is pretty exciting huh. | [10:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | certain xmas morning air about it. | [10:49] |
| diana_coman: | curious whether you get to raise the q basically even with the bp at half | [10:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm. | [10:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | in a sane world this would create a betting pool lol | [10:50] |
| diana_coman: | bwaahahah, that's what I wanted to say at first: any bets on what you get? :))) | [10:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [10:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | another confounding factor : you're not about to level are you ? | [10:51] |
| diana_coman: | no, safely away from any such hideous idea | [10:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | i paniced for a moment, but it's the mcguyver not the mcapron | [10:52] |
| diana_coman: | aha, bod is cooking | [10:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaand we have bod q 79! | [10:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | + 179 oal. also 79 | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | and mine is...72 | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and 198 oal at 72 | [10:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | 2nd step : q 50 bod recipe ; 17 bb q 222 ; 33 eps q 208 ; 1 ma q 245 | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | so unsurprisingly yes, I get lower q, lol | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | confirm't ? | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | guess I should put those to storage | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | hm, wait | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | darn no | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | 18 not 17. | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | isn't it 18? | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | such disgusting bod | [11:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | youll have to give me 2 more. you got q 222 ? | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | oh, yes | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | 1 min | [11:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | ty | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | np | [11:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok restated : q 50 bod recipe ; 18 bb q 222 ; 33 eps q 208 ; 1 ma q 245 | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | yep | [11:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | and trhey're off | [11:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | bundle, q 233 | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | q50 bod bp, 1ma 245q, 33 eps 208q, 18 bb 222q | [11:02] |
| diana_coman: | yep, q233 bundle | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | still no danger of ranking up, lol | [11:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | q 132 bod, and 780 lints | [11:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok, proceeding with q 200 bod recipe ; 18 bb q 222 ; 33 eps q 208 ; 1 ma q 245 | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | confirm't diana_coman ? | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | confirmed high-high | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | 120 bod, 721 lints, lol | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | and trhey're off. bundle still 233 | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | so I got lower q bod AND less loot | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | wonderfull | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh! | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | as I was saying above: oc is a fool's game unless you know yourself to be lucky | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | (or you have no choice anyway) | [11:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | what's the nominal valuye of bod, like hm where was it | [11:14] |
| diana_coman: | check the cookbook | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | so the q100 bod is 29170 | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | now, 780 lint at 132 is 10296c or 35.29 q points | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | whereas my oc was 101 q points. so like 1/3 i got back! check that shit out! | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | that is my usual xp | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | whereas 721 lint q 120 = 8652 ie 29.66 points | [11:16] |
| diana_coman: | in principle some pop would redeem the whole thing | [11:16] |
| diana_coman: | but I don't believe in pops, lol | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | and your drop was 111, so you got 26.7\% | [11:16] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [11:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | funny tho : you had more oc, got fewer items of lower q. ALL THE THINGS | [11:17] |
| diana_coman: | maybe | [11:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | NOW i'm curious if i over or under this one. | [11:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | 264!!!1 | [11:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaaahahahahaha yay! | [11:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | final run : q 200 bod bp, with 31 q 46 eps ; 17 q 58 bb and 1 q 122 ma. | [11:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | bundle q 82 | [11:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | so bundle really has nothing to do with bp huh. | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | how would it have? | [11:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | i dunno, jus' sayin'. | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | the above is the illustration of what I was saying re shitty bps: use one and you'll screw your output (q wise) for sure | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | for 1.5 difference in bp q you got from 132 bod to 264 bod | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | hm | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | kind of really double there? | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | a bit weird to be so exactly double | [11:33] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, my highq-highq ended up as 241 bod, no loot, but...it decided it was enough and ranked up my gung-ho on this one, ugh | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | so there would be the 241 kind of not the expected 240 but possibly due to this ranking up | [11:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | 157 | [12:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah exactly double huh. | [12:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | now i got a collection of bod like no other ;/ | [12:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | interestingly : the 4 together came to... 157! | [12:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | which is what the last one was, also. | [12:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | all sorts of weird numeric properties come to light. | [12:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman so basically you ALSO doubled yours ? 120/240 ? | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | and 143 the last run | [12:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | so i got, bp first, bundle 2nd, ll 79 ; lh 132 ; hl 157 ; hh 263 | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | and you got ll 72 ; lh 120 ; hl 143 ; hh 240 ; | [12:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | (79 + 132 + 157 + 263) / 4 = 157 ; (72 + 120 + 143 + 240) / 4 = 143 | [12:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | HOW ABOUT THAT! | [12:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | 157 / 79 = 1.987341772 ; 143 / 72 = 1.986111111 | [12:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | and ftr : bp l = 50 ; bp h = 200 ; b l = 82 ; b h = 233 | [12:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | so what function is supposed to fit these points ? | [12:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaaand looted another nlc. | [13:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaand also got a nbc! | [13:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | so apparently i'm guaranteed at least 1 cons per click here. | [13:52] |
| diana_coman: | what's "here" mircea_popescu ? | [14:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie every single abc i clicked to date yielded at least 1 other cons | [14:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaand another nbc | [14:49] |
| diana_coman: | I meant: were those with some higher q bundles or something? | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | or really each and every abc since start? | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | it would make it kind of weird on the face of it | [14:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | each and every one. but they result in diff q cons of course. | [14:52] |
| diana_coman: | did you ever undercraft any of them though? | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | or by any value? | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | kind of weird if yes | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | nope. | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | always oc as much as possible, because well... | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | aha, so not that surprising after all | [14:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | guess not. | [14:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, as a status update on the whole bp craft thing : i so far clicked 12 of the 100 ; sold most of the resulting cons, afaik so far 1 yielded 74 bct bps + 49 slag bps, 182q both | [15:00] |
| diana_coman: | well yeah, my click, lol | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | btw are you selling any of those new cons? | [15:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | i also clicked one, got got 101 psc layout, 70 it sketches q 228 | [15:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | the rest, no idea if ever clicked or what happened to them. | [15:01] |
| diana_coman: | it is toupe? | [15:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | ya. | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | urgh | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | of all things, lol | [15:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | i did do a large run of dt ; and mostly have the ampoules built. i intend to dig up some high eps and make high bod to click the rest | [15:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | so far the 12 happened over ~6 weeks, seems about the pace that can be sustained here. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | well, when canines are finished.... | [15:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | there;s also that. | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | btw re that idea of yours that 10x50q = 1x500q resources: I've been manually building the 20+ eps smalls I got over a run and so far it was only ONE that gave more than 1 snail (2) | [15:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman so far waiting for birdman to show up and collect his prev auction win. | [15:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | too much to administer otherwise. | [15:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman ok ? | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | so you know, after a certain q, smalls are basically same as tiny in this respect and for this reason, no it's not true that 10x50q same as 1x500q; the idea that they are equivalent holds only up to a certain q | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | aha, will wait, ok | [15:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | no it's not true that 10x50q same as 1x500q << i don't follow. | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | iirc birdman was buying also all bods and the like, never actually turned up to get them | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | so: the rate at which one gets the claims is the same, right? | [15:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | the same as what ? | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | constant | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | well, constant enough, lol | [15:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | same rate if you're going to use high or low bundle in the claims yes | [15:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | how would it know future events. | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | yeah | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | exactly | [15:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | so let's say one gets 1 claim per minute | [15:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | and 1 small for every 20 tinies, right? | [15:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | aite. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | so in 1 hour we get 60 claims in total and out of those, 3 are smalls | [15:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok. | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | if one builds at 50q | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | one would get 60 items | [15:08] |
| diana_coman: | at least | [15:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | as a minimum, ok. | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | yes, basically that's a minimum regardless of q | [15:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | well sure. | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | now the tinies really give 1 in most cases | [15:09] |
| diana_coman: | smalls might give more though, more often | [15:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | i never saw smalls give 1s before the high q thing. | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | essentially smalls are overall higher value than tinies, right? | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | aha, exactly my point | [15:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | so you can either get 10 eps q 50 in a small, if you make q 50s | [15:10] |
| diana_coman: | so if one builds the smalls at high value, they will give only 1 most likely, right? | [15:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | or else 1 high quality eps. same small. | [15:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | well depending of the value etc, but yeah. | [15:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | small is whatever, 500c worth of snail. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | so then how is the speed really 5x10? the same number of claims means speed is fixed already, that is the speed | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | if I build the small and get 10 eps out of it | [15:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | the speed ? iirc the discussion was re value. | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | mnop | [15:11] |
| diana_coman: | ugh | [15:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | the higher the q you get, the slower you reach a certain count, if you prefer this. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | that was exactly the point! | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [15:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | "get me 120 eps" is 2 hours if you gotta get q 500 ; or else 1 stick if q 5 is ok. sorta thing. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | of course re value it holds, but it doesn't hold re speed and that's where it started from | [15:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | musta been some misunderstanding. | [15:12] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.minigame.bz/2016-03-26.log.html#t20:05:17 | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | and I say speed and then you say why not, lol | [15:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | so it IS translated directly : 3x slower. | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | only if you really talk of same type of claim or something, gotta fix something | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | otherwise I can get you 60 eps in the example above in 1 hour at q up to say 190 | [15:16] |
| diana_coman: | but I can't really get you 120 of them at q 95 | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | or please do tell me how you'd do that exactly | [15:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | something is fixed : how long it takes you to explore. it's 5 minutes for a 20k stick or w/e. that 1/4mn / hour or whatever it is, comes back at whatever q you choose. | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | if you talk of sticks only, yes | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | sure | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | so if it's basic tools, idem. still 200k/hour or w/e | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, really | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't recall right off what it was, but something like 1-2mn worth of hoes i burned / night | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | so 60 claims, 3 smalls, you say I can get 60 q800 or 120 q400 or etc | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | like? | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | back when grassing | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman well yeah ? | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | how exactly? | [15:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | how what ? | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | it's only the smalls that would arguably translate like that | [15:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | i guess since electron only sells q250 bundles | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | basically if you are anyway extracting more than the claim itself because of huge q input | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | then no, you can't do that | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | 58 tiny claims mean exactly 58 resources | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | at least above some very low q | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | you can't get 116 of them just by slashing in half the q at ANY arbitrary level | [15:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | well that's true | [15:20] |
| diana_coman: | that is my point: what you say is true ONLY on some intervals basically or for some specific types of claims (and even there I suspect it is still related to the value and therefore again on some interval, just that we are well within it hence not that visible) | [15:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | possibru yea | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | moreover then basically tinies you are best off by using highest q possible input since that means anyway purely extracting more value out of them | [15:22] |
| diana_coman: | unless there is some diminishing returns thing possibly | [15:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | a really ? so my q200+ lbn is kinda more valuable than q11 ? | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | yep | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | it certainly is, I did report the diff in q somewhere in here | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | in fact: I got those low q eps with q11 lbn | [15:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah i see what you mean, because if the lbn is q 200, say you get q 200 wm ; whereas if the lbn is 11, you get q 11 wm. | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | what were they, 46q? | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | yep | [15:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, that drop is worth 780c * which makes it very significant | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | so kind of my minimum lj build is 46q | [15:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | i c! | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [15:23] |
| diana_coman: | obv, the more expensive the resource, the more significant this is | [15:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | so really must have high lbn. well that makes me happy :D | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | heh | [15:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | but of course... if one's noob enough maybe he gets multiple hits | [15:24] |
| diana_coman: | if I go for grass, I don't care that much I'd say | [15:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah yeah | [15:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | interesting subleties | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, if MY minimum is basically 46q, I'm quite relaxed that noobs will likely still get very very low q, no problem | [15:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | should prolly try this | [15:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | i wonder where they all went. | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | as I said: last update wiped all nooooooobs | [15:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | weird. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | well, wyrd was clearly put off by the change | [15:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | i hadn't seen that guy in months. | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | he did as much as enquire if I thought it was well-thought this change basically | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | and after that, he never logged in again as far as I can tell | [15:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | what about the guy that actually did work | [15:26] |
| diana_coman: | to be fair he seemed to get busy irl otherwise too, but well, one makes time or one doesn't make it | [15:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | what was his name, some random string. but he got a few hundred k basics iirc | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | fghj? | [15:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | don't know, but he vanished even before wyrd | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | from what I gathered it was danielpbarron who mentored him so maybe he knows more | [15:27] |
| diana_coman: | oh, what did you get out of that remark cr? | [15:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | if the history of bitcoin as well as every game to date as well as everything ever is any guide, there's phase a) where "oh i'd play this if X" and phase b) where "oh i'd play this if it were phase a". | [15:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | so... makes exactly 0 difference, in the end. | [15:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | didn't get around to digging it up, all sorts of other shit to do | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | I think this was more a case of: I played this but when X, it kind of lost its appeal | [15:30] |
| diana_coman: | not saying that it makes a difference necessarily | [15:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. | [15:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, i sitll have a little cr, and not so much use for it without tons of bottles, cuz it principally goes into acg. | [15:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | i originally thought there's gonna be a lot of demand for that to make distillates, but it failed to manifest, so i reallocated the bottles to making io, | [15:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | so ima make some ss and tools / toolkits instead. | [15:32] |
| diana_coman: | ss? are you making snakeskins now | [15:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | use up all this lbn | [15:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | shaped slag | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | oh | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | much better, lol | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | and you mean ltf | [15:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | bottles ? yeah. | [15:33] |
| diana_coman: | I am finally going through ALL the keys to build all old claims | [15:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah no what i mean is - if people don't need gin/distillates, that's fine with me, ima use the bottles to make io, shaped slag, tools, and then use them to use up my large piles of high q lbn | [15:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | which i got from cons work | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | aha, anyway tools sound good to me at any time basically | [15:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't have that many old claims left, just a coupla remarks and a coupla wwb ords. | [15:34] |
| diana_coman: | as long as you have bps I suppose | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, something's gotta give. | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | I still have all sorts of weird shit like bn and the like | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | what's bn again ? | [15:35] |
| diana_coman: | bird's nest | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | and some of the old enums are some 350+ q o.o | [15:36] |
| diana_coman: | I'll probably get again 1 single item of the whole claim :)) | [15:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | at that q... :D | [15:37] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and btw in case anyone is interested: the discussion above re speed of getting various qualities of resources is the reason why I quote my prices as I do on the shop page: I can certainly get a wide range of q, but not at same speed | [15:42] |
| diana_coman: | 82 bn at 350 from 1 ord | [15:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty good. | [15:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok, auction starting everyone. | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | on my way | [15:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron how much for the bouq ones ? :D | [16:12] |
| diana_coman: | hm, so I got 80, 80 on 2 bn ord and then..340 | [16:16] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [16:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | 340 * 71 * 3.5 = 85k from an ord ? | [16:17] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [16:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | there are worse fates :p | [16:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | so you willing to pay me 100k for these 3 wwb q 176 claims ? | [16:18] |
| diana_coman: | hm, 80*71*3.5 = 20k | [16:19] |
| diana_coman: | "you are not in range to see telerock"! | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | omg | [16:43] |
| diana_coman: | have you ever seen that? | [16:43] |
| jurov: | i did, long ago | [17:01] |
| jurov: | don't remember what i did | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | I kind of frantically clicked to "see" some bn on the table which was too far away; couldn't quite replicate that | [17:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | :D | [19:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | soo... in 150 clicks of maculature, got exactly 0 mites ;/ | [21:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty miserable run, this. | [21:09] |
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