| diana_coman: | hanbot what categories are you interested in then? basics? lumber? | [04:23] |
| diana_coman: | <mircea_popescu> mz diana conman <- what's funny is that he consistently wants to actually ping me with this particular misspelled version | [04:28] |
| diana_coman: | english-speaking (english-only speaking rather, I suspect) seem to find my surname terribly difficult for some reason, so I had tons of: colman/coleman (main change for some reason), conan (raaaa, me barbarian), conman, comman, common... | [04:30] |
| Birdman2: | heh im glad you pointed that out my bad | [04:46] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2 want to mine those claims? | [04:57] |
| Birdman2: | yes | [04:58] |
| diana_coman: | kk, on my way to town | [04:59] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2 trade | [05:01] |
| diana_coman: | .... lost in action | [05:05] |
| Birdman2: | sorry | [05:06] |
| Birdman2: | just woke up and nature called | [05:06] |
| Birdman2: | 1222 gross | [05:17] |
| diana_coman: | you mean 1222 shiny rocks? | [05:22] |
| diana_coman: | what q? | [05:22] |
| Birdman2: | 23 | [05:23] |
| Birdman2: | trade when ready | [05:24] |
| diana_coman: | input: 70Ã\u00971.54Ã\u0097180+187Ã\u009710 = 21274 | [05:25] |
| Birdman2: | tyty | [05:25] |
| Birdman2: | mircea_popescu, is there any limit to the grass and rickety reeds you'll buy? or should i just go nuts | [05:27] |
| diana_coman: | strictly speaking in base value terms, it's barely profitable as output is 1222Ã\u009778Ã\u00970.23 = 21922 | [05:31] |
| diana_coman: | taking away your 10\% it's even a loss so Birdman2 that doesn't work | [05:32] |
| Birdman2: | the reason to use a noob is to get more of something, where a decrease in quality doesnt matter | [05:32] |
| Birdman2: | so figure out something that works on those lines, and then we both profit :) | [05:33] |
| Birdman2: | its not for everything for sure | [05:33] |
| diana_coman: | well, that's why I did it on shiny rock | [05:33] |
| diana_coman: | as yes, I need lots of low q shiny rock | [05:33] |
| diana_coman: | and flotsam for that matter | [05:33] |
| Birdman2: | right, so you got alot more than if you were to do it yourself right? | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | + I can get those claims easily so that the cost is minimal | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | more items, yes; overall less value though | [05:34] |
| Birdman2: | subjective | [05:34] |
| diana_coman: | lol, now numbers are subjective | [05:34] |
| Birdman2: | no no, just the value of something, you cant run numbers for this with base value if quality is irrelevant | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | anyways: how about the fairer approach in which we split output based on input | [05:35] |
| Birdman2: | im listening | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | so you put the threads, we calculate how much is that out of the input and therefore you get from the overall output the same percentage | [05:35] |
| diana_coman: | with this approach I'm willing to use sticks too | [05:36] |
| Birdman2: | i can get the claims fairly easy as well | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | well, not on wm and the like, not my quality of sticks | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | btw, is this what you usually get on your own sticks? | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | care to make a test? | [05:36] |
| Birdman2: | ive proved the q on claims is irrelevant in the output | [05:36] |
| Birdman2: | for smalls at least | [05:36] |
| diana_coman: | really? where/how? | [05:36] |
| Birdman2: | well, mining for people like you | [05:36] |
| Birdman2: | with same q threads the output is the same | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | you mean you get around 1222 shiny rocks on your own claims? | [05:37] |
| Birdman2: | if i use 152q threads or whatever yeah | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | got data for that? | [05:37] |
| Birdman2: | i havent recorded any, no | [05:37] |
| Birdman2: | if you want i have some grass claims we can test it out on | [05:37] |
| diana_coman: | I find that rather surprising, because I'm quite sure if I go and build your claims I'll get less than if I build my own (same threads etc) | [05:38] |
| Birdman2: | or anything really, ill go get 10 claims or sr | [05:38] |
| diana_coman: | mind going and getting 10 sr claims? | [05:38] |
| Birdman2: | mhm | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: if it's really the same then I don't get why do you want to build for someone else really? | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: you are better off just building your own if there really is no difference, aren't you? | [05:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman course there is tab autocomplete... | [05:39] |
| Birdman2: | like you said the more valueable things that i cant get a good hit \% on, or ordinaries | [05:39] |
| diana_coman: | well, with your 10\% approach I'll never give those, lol | [05:39] |
| Birdman2: | id probably want more on ordinaries | [05:40] |
| Birdman2: | its insane how much they produce | [05:40] |
| Birdman2: | ill need the same q threads though to run these numbers on the sr | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | eh, mircea_popescu there are also other languages than english in the world, but hey | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | thing is: you want NO risk and ALL the gain | [05:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | wait wut | [05:40] |
| diana_coman: | I don't know, but I don't see the point to that | [05:41] |
| Birdman2: | im providing a service lol thats all. and the point to what? same q threads? | [05:41] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu I meant yes, there is autocomplete but apparently some people are not aware of it | [05:41] |
| Birdman2: | this irc client doesnt autocomplete with tab, it just cycles through a menu of names and can only be used if i hit enter right there | [05:42] |
| Birdman2: | so if i want to say something and ping i'd either have to manual type in the beginning or do it at the end | [05:42] |
| diana_coman: | the point to losing the xp + 10\% of whatever output there is (which sometimes might still be at a loss anyway) + all the fuff about | [05:42] |
| diana_coman: | anyways, got the 10 smalls on sr Birdman2? | [05:43] |
| Birdman2: | it depends on your personal needs, there wont be a concrete answer | [05:43] |
| Birdman2: | should soon | [05:43] |
| diana_coman: | mk | [05:44] |
| diana_coman: | you know what, if it's so insane output etc, then you put in the ingredients and get proportionally from the output, what's wrong with that? | [05:45] |
| Birdman2: | ill buy any and all ordinaries | [05:46] |
| Birdman2: | so how do we go about this thread business? | [05:47] |
| diana_coman: | <mircea_popescu> wait wut <- ha ha, now I realise you probably got the convos mixed up; the no risk and all gain was for Birdman2 | [05:47] |
| diana_coman: | I'll give you the thread for those 10 too and we split again the loot same as before, does that work? | [05:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | i got that, was wutting the not-all-languages-are-english thing | [05:47] |
| diana_coman: | or you buy the thread | [05:47] |
| diana_coman: | and all loot is yours | [05:47] |
| Birdman2: | eh yeah sure thats fine | [05:47] |
| Birdman2: | good hit \% anyways | [05:47] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu some people seem to be aware of english only, typing (no autocomplete) only etc; possibly my mind jumped around | [05:48] |
| diana_coman: | so ping me when in town Birdman2 | [05:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't get the complaint tho. so to get your name in i gotta type di and hit tab. ok ? | [05:49] |
| diana_coman: | what complaint? | [05:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | no way i'm touching fucking shift to produce underscores | [05:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | his. | [05:49] |
| diana_coman: | ?? | [05:49] |
| Birdman2: | i had no complaint lol | [05:49] |
| Birdman2: | i was just glad someone pointed out ive been spelling her name wrong | [05:49] |
| diana_coman: | he says he doesn't have autocomplete.... | [05:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | aanyways. | [05:51] |
| Birdman2: | be in town in a sec | [05:53] |
| diana_coman: | well, now come to -186 -308 then | [05:54] |
| Birdman2: | kk | [05:54] |
| Birdman2: | im there | [05:56] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2> good hit \% anyways <- what is that exactly? | [05:58] |
| Birdman2: | not sure id need to find a few hundred claims to find out | [05:59] |
| Birdman2: | took a few tries for one though | [05:59] |
| diana_coman: | and small:tiny? | [05:59] |
| Birdman2: | i think you were right | [06:00] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [06:00] |
| Birdman2: | 1057 on my run | [06:00] |
| diana_coman: | .... | [06:00] |
| Birdman2: | i guess the difference was just very minute on the grass that i didnt notice, or i havent done enough to show the true numbers | [06:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | in other news, 230 / 6858 aka 0.033537474 | [06:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | check out the fucking variance on that diana_coman ! | [06:01] |
| diana_coman: | you know mircea_popescu I keep thinking I should go through all that exploring data | [06:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [06:02] |
| diana_coman: | you started with what, more like 0.3? | [06:02] |
| Birdman2: | put em on a claim next to you | [06:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | but where have you seen this ever, so it varies from 330 to 288 to 333 within 7-8k assays. | [06:02] |
| diana_coman: | kk Birdman2 | [06:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | was ~0.0328 or so. then dropped under 29. now back over | [06:02] |
| diana_coman: | oh | [06:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | and the difference in "fair" pricing based on data from 10, 100, 1000 or 10000 assays is as marked as 50\% on the outside. | [06:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | (ftr, this is tinies out of total tries in wm) | [06:04] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, that's why I kind of gave up trying to price based on assays really | [06:04] |
| diana_coman: | well, you get at least high q given lj talent or whatever | [06:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | dja know of any natural process (outside of medical diagnosis in humans, perhaps) that exhibits this sort of behaviour ? | [06:06] |
| Birdman2: | so the quality of the claim effects the output huh, do you mind telling me your gathering level? | [06:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | is kinda stoked that eulora is better than life as he knows it. | [06:06] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [06:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | hey, no small feat. | [06:07] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2 for all one knows it's the qual of the enum too/or | [06:07] |
| Birdman2: | im really not convinced | [06:07] |
| diana_coman: | you can check that too | [06:07] |
| Birdman2: | ive done runs of grass where one batch of 100 would show big differences between another | [06:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's kinda the point. | [06:08] |
| diana_coman: | 433 gathering anyway | [06:08] |
| Birdman2: | right, but the same variance showed between me and foxy's claims just now | [06:08] |
| diana_coman: | "same" ? | [06:08] |
| Birdman2: | \% wise | [06:08] |
| Birdman2: | ~ 10\% | [06:08] |
| diana_coman: | what's your gathering anyway? | [06:09] |
| Birdman2: | wow you have 433 | [06:09] |
| Birdman2: | mine's 75 about to be 76 | [06:09] |
| Birdman2: | which kind of reaffirms my guess that it doesnt matter | [06:09] |
| diana_coman: | ..... | [06:09] |
| chetty: | I really enjoy watching you guys reverse engineer all my maths | [06:10] |
| diana_coman: | so it matter but then it doesn't matter? ... | [06:10] |
| diana_coman: | hey chetty how are you? | [06:10] |
| Birdman2: | i dont think the q of enumeration or claim goes into its output | [06:10] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2 I don't follow your jumping around on this | [06:11] |
| chetty: | maybe a little better but not yet ready to code | [06:11] |
| diana_coman: | glad to hear you are getting better really, that's the more important part | [06:12] |
| Birdman2: | what do you mean? The difference of output between your claims and my claims is nothing but ordinary, meaning its not any crazy difference that i havent seen between my own claims. at such a small sample size on an rng based game can you get a definitive answer? for you to have such a higher gathering level than me i'd assume the difference in output would be much greater but it didnt show numbers outside the | [06:15] |
| Birdman2: | normal variance that i get doing any other mining | [06:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman2 do you have any training in statistics or such ? | [06:16] |
| Birdman2: | Nope | [06:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | alright, well, variance is a term of art and also there's other problems. | [06:17] |
| diana_coman: | ^^ | [06:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | (should curiosity strike, variance, in both the theoretical and observational sense, exists strictly in reference to ONE data set. you can't have inter-dataset variance, unless you're doing some sort of meta study and the studies themselves are your datapoints, in which case the isntrumentation is more complex.) | [06:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman im realising that the general public problems with statistics are actually more or less reducible to a fundamental issue. statistics data is actually TAGGED data, like in lisp. layman intuits that socialism prevails, all numbers are numbers, and so therefore [any of the typical errors]. | [06:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | thinking back, in most cases where someone did something horrifying, the basic response always was "YOU CANT MIX THOSE!" | [06:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | "why not" | [06:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | "o gods!" | [06:23] |
| Birdman2: | So i cant refer to the difference in outputs between my own mining results with itself and the differences between my mining results and those with diana's claims as variance, because variance is the change in one data point or whatever, alright that makes sense | [06:25] |
| Birdman2: | one data point relative to itself | [06:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | just bear in mind that statistics are the principal means politicians use to lie, because it's so easy. | [06:25] |
| Birdman2: | what is it again danielpbarron | [06:26] |
| Birdman2: | some quote about the best liars being statisticians | [06:26] |
| Birdman2: | man someone's gotta mine those grass claims | [06:32] |
| Birdman2: | i offered to buy them, i might even pay a ridiculous price just to clear them up | [06:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | wut claims | [06:36] |
| Birdman2: | there's a row of like 10-20 claims in the grass field around -170 , -163 | [06:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | so good, they mark the spot | [06:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | appreciates some unmined wm claims down ehre. | [06:41] |
| Birdman2: | i suppose so | [06:42] |
| Birdman2: | though they get in my way, so whoever owns em should know ill buy | [06:43] |
| diana_coman: | that's a good observation mircea_popescu, can't dispute it for sure | [06:55] |
| diana_coman: | in any case, ftr I am *not* a statistician myself either | [06:55] |
| diana_coman: | I am aware of statistics, used statistics, needed statistics | [06:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | me either lol. | [06:56] |
| diana_coman: | but hey, I *know* statisticians and no, I'm not one of them | [06:56] |
| Birdman2: | so mircea_popescu | [07:09] |
| Birdman2: | how much grass will you be buying? | [07:09] |
| Birdman2: | rickety reeds i thought i got the same hit \% as grass but its considerably less | [07:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://trilema.com/eulora-shop/#footnote_1_62578 | [07:12] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: Eulora Shop on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at trilema.com) | [07:12] |
| Birdman2: | :) | [07:13] |
| Birdman2: | my hit rates for ordinaries seems to have gotten worse | [07:18] |
| Birdman2: | cool item idea > keyring | [07:45] |
| Birdman2: | higher q maybe higher capacity? | [07:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [07:45] |
| Birdman2: | note that if you need to find a claim you missed, simply clicking the use button will say if it is used or not | [08:27] |
| Birdman2: | no need to move materials in and out of claims | [08:27] |
| diana_coman: | hmm, so 1 level up in building seems to give me quite unfailingly 1q point in everything; on the other hand, 2 levels up in farming gave me nothing | [08:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | cwazy | [08:40] |
| diana_coman: | the only kind of hypothesis I have so far is that I'm kind of way top on building while farming is unimpressive, though that doesn't sound like much of a theory | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | I think you are next in building mircea_popescu, aren't you? | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | what's your building level? | [08:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | possibly. 371 | [08:41] |
| diana_coman: | hm, doesn't sound like a huge diff to my 404 | [08:42] |
| diana_coman: | although the levels around 400 were huge | [08:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah they vary | [08:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman what q farming do yo uget yet ? | [09:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | and mining or lumberjack and basics ? | [09:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | closing this run, 265 / 8000 | [09:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie 0.033125 | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | 135 on farming now | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | need to check the rest | [09:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | please do | [09:17] |
| diana_coman: | 116 mining | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | so 58 farming gives me...21 q points lolz | [09:19] |
| diana_coman: | 162 basics | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | 102 sortage gives me 48 | [09:21] |
| diana_coman: | still thinks the most likely thing is that Foxy is simply an idiot | [09:22] |
| Birdman2: | you keep saying that foxy, do you think your int. effects some of this? | [09:22] |
| chetty: | :P | [09:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | im at 105 non-lj, about 200 basics and 200 lj. | [09:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | so 37 lj gives me ~95, 282 sortage gives me... ~100 say. | [09:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | clearly i'm talented at lj and you're talented at basics. | [09:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | im certainly doing worse in basics than you are. | [09:25] |
| Birdman2: | that would be cool game mechanics if your stats effected skills and all that | [09:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | ofcoursetheydo. | [09:25] |
| Birdman2: | well then, eulora may just have potential to be the greatest rpg | [09:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think so. | [09:26] |
| Birdman2: | mmm, ive always wanted to have a game that uses real money for the currency | [09:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | ayup | [09:27] |
| Birdman2: | just wish i had started at the same time as you guys | [09:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | why do you think it makes a difference ? | [09:27] |
| Birdman2: | i could have done some things differently for sure | [09:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | like what ? | [09:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | in fact, going with a simple linear model for a second here, 58/21 = 2.761904762 ; 102/48 = 2.125 ; 37 / 95 = 0.389473684 ; 282 / 100 = 2.82 | [09:31] |
| Birdman2: | well i spent a week or two gathering at level one, and failed to realise i needed to train to progress, which led me to think the game sucked and stopped playing it for a month or so. so in that time I just feel i might have missed opportunity or a full understanding of the game | [09:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | so you're ever so slightly better at sortage than me, much better at farming, but i totally MURDER it with lj. | [09:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman2 well ok, but unlike every other mmorpg out there, the limiting factor in eulora isn't time. | [09:31] |
| Birdman2: | right, to a degree | [09:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's money. if you do things dumbly and waste a lot of ecus, they're gone. if you don't... you can keep playing | [09:32] |
| Birdman2: | yeah i like that | [09:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | so in this sense, it's never really "oh if i started earlier". like diana says, lemme get that quote | [09:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | was a great quote. | [09:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | By the way, don\u0092t let me spoil those problems for you. Or the headaches for that matter. By all means, go ahead, dive straight in, bang your head, don\u0092t read a single word further. No, seriously, I mean it, don\u0092t read before play, who ever heard of that anyway? Especially if you have some BTC (or coppers) to burn, go ahead and burn them. I\u0092ll wait until you\u0092re done with that (it won\u0092t be long). | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | Done? Good, now that you have no money and therefore nothing other to do than to start paying attention finally, here\u0092s what is kind of clear1 at the moment: | [09:33] |
| Birdman2: | which i did at first, i blew 10mil really fast, then dpb paid me for a days work and now have well over 10mil | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's like... | [09:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | pretty cool Birdman2 | [09:33] |
| diana_coman: | <Birdman2> you keep saying that foxy, do you think your int. effects some of this? <- yes Birdman2 | [09:34] |
| diana_coman: | talented at basics? | [09:34] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [09:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | lower is better. | [09:34] |
| Birdman2: | next question: is there a mechanic that gives you an edge or disadvantage in certain things? So a mix of 'high intellegence lets you do this better' but also an unrelated 'this rng determined you have this much of an edge for this'? | [09:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, that's what statistics is for, neh ? to answer that type of q. | [09:36] |
| Birdman2: | heh, i guess so, not sure why i thought you guys would know | [09:36] |
| Birdman2: | i seem to think im fairly talented in gathering | [09:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | possibru | [09:37] |
| Birdman2: | oh, how can i see my stats now? | [09:37] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2 what we "know" is what we inferred through all previous playing + working at figuring it out basically | [09:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, now that mining skills exist, mining makes a particularly informative comparison spot | [09:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | im curious if any of the other miners be willing to share their ratios. mod6 danielpbarron whoever else got some | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov | [09:38] |
| diana_coman: | and in some sense you are better off starting later as you don't *have to* (you have the choice to, of course) make the same mistakes that have been already made to learn something | [09:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | granting, of course, the learning is actually correct. | [09:38] |
| diana_coman: | I didn't say anything about learning, lol; I just said about mistakes | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | contrariwise, coming in earlier you're not enslaved by persuasive if erroneous "knowledge" | [09:39] |
| diana_coman: | there is there I did this and got that; now what you infer from it ... | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | well yeah but what's a mistake. | [09:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | actually this is very like how knowledge works irl huh. | [09:39] |
| diana_coman: | of course | [09:40] |
| diana_coman: | and btw ftr since I'm currently reading taleb, I think he'd love the game | [09:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | me2. | [09:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman2 you can't see them. | [09:40] |
| Birdman2: | but you used to right? | [09:41] |
| diana_coman: | they used to show in the first tab but the mysteriously vanished | [09:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | at some point yeah. | [09:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | is curious as to how many people had the foresight to take screenshots | [09:41] |
| Birdman2: | ah i see, so there are some game mechanics you want to keep hidden | [09:42] |
| hanbot: | < | [09:42] |
| diana_coman: | ahahah, ALL of them Birdman2 | [09:42] |
| Birdman2: | :p | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | haha, smart play hanbot | [09:42] |
| Birdman2: | hanbot sell me your grass claim keys | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | they'll get exposed through mediated game things later Birdman2 | [09:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | something to do with oracles and calendars. | [09:42] |
| hanbot: | Birdman2 it's not rly worth the time to me to sort out the keys. if i go through em someday i'll ping you | [09:43] |
| Birdman2: | can i make it worth the time? | [09:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | btw diana_coman you ever published the scripts i need to make maps out of my logs ? | [09:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | is kind-of lazy | [09:44] |
| diana_coman: | ?? I published them, didn't I? | [09:45] |
| diana_coman: | the maps post http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/10/13/hic-sunt-flotsams-on-eulora-or-the-brand-new-foxymaps/ | [09:45] |
| diana_coman: | <mircea_popescu> in fact, going with a simple linear model for a second here, 58/21 = 2.761904762 ; 102/48 = 2.125 ; 37 / 95 = 0.389473684 ; 282 / 100 = 2.82 <- I think this shows you are talented in lj | [09:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | o bless your heart! | [09:46] |
| diana_coman: | other than that though... | [09:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | awk too, no less. mwahahah this is epic. | [09:46] |
| diana_coman: | I was fed up with gnuplot and so I hacked it, lol | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | I mean the "make a map" problem | [09:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman x11 i figure ? | [09:48] |
| diana_coman: | yes, do you have trouble with it? | [09:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | nah just picking which one to install. | [09:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | apparently x11 installs nox anyway | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | gnuplot is quite powerfull really, but I couldn't find some well-written book/guide something to it | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | that's why I did not mention it in the list, maybe I should add it anyway | [09:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh. tried gnuplotorium.org ? | [09:50] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, doesn't load anything for me? | [09:50] |
| Birdman2: | hanbot is there an amount i can pay you to just forget about the claims and then ask mircea to get rid of them sometime? | [09:53] |
| diana_coman: | is thinking of spot-littering ransom business - sounds like it will pay more than bots or anything helpful for that matter | [09:54] |
| Birdman2: | heh the thought crossed my mind too, cover someone's remarkables or ordinaries in smalls and tinies, or just make a spot un mineable | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | you can't really | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | I can do it for your spots, but you can't do it for mine | [09:55] |
| diana_coman: | my bot doesn't care about your claims /density of claims | [09:55] |
| Birdman2: | hm, if i clicked a wrong claim it wouldnt jam up or something? | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | do you know how to makew it plot larger than the viewport ? | [09:56] |
| Birdman2: | it* | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | can't you make the window larger? | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | than the viewport ? not trivially. | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | and then hit replot (button in upper menu) | [09:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is after all dumbass x11 | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | ah | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | you can zoom | [09:56] |
| diana_coman: | no, I don't know | [09:57] |
| diana_coman: | right-click will give you coordinates and select a starting point for the area to zoom | [09:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | spiffy script tho | [09:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | ima be publishing in a sec | [09:58] |
| diana_coman: | :) | [09:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | any way to toggle the legend off ? | [10:00] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, you could do it from the script but you'd need to take out the last part of each line basically | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | maybe from options? | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | let me have a quick look | [10:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | wipe what, everything after pt ? | [10:01] |
| diana_coman: | plot "< awk -F, '/Bitterbean/ {print ,}' testall.csv" using 1:2 | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | like that | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | so everything after that | [10:03] |
| diana_coman: | using 1:2 is the last thing on each line | [10:03] |
| Birdman2: | seems my last level tipped some scale, and now my ratio of tinies:smalls is worse | [10:06] |
| diana_coman: | strictly speaking, the best is to delete just the t + name as that's the legend itself | [10:07] |
| diana_coman: | the rest is for setting the type of points used | [10:07] |
| Birdman2: | off to rr to see changes, i regard rr as slightly harder or a claim to get, so if this last level really did make a slight difference, i should see nice results there | [10:17] |
| Birdman2: | shit, apparently withdrawing from storage can switch around items | [10:20] |
| Birdman2: | there goes some hoe q | [10:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman yes it does show lj as a major outlier. | [10:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | 18/406 in the new set. | [10:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | which is .... 0.044! | [10:34] |
| hanbot: | Birdman2 leaving aside the dubious outcome of such a proposition, no. | [10:38] |
| Birdman2: | hm, alright then | [10:39] |
| lobbesbot: | News from eulora: Eulora as seen by Mircescu <http://trilema.com/2015/eulora-as-seen-by-mircescu/> | [10:47] |
| Birdman2: | I had a feeling this would happen. I was in a sweet spot in the gathering level, far as grass goes i was between 73-80\% to hit, and it was 100\% smalls | [11:01] |
| Birdman2: | besides one tiny and one ordinary over the thousands of claims i had gotten | [11:02] |
| Birdman2: | now that i hit this level, tinies are prevelant | [11:02] |
| Birdman2: | which are just a loss through and through considering my q output, and they mess with my lines of smalls and add extra effort | [11:02] |
| Birdman2: | so the question is do i not level for awhile until i fall back into that spot, or do i try to level as much as possible to get to whatever point i get the better ratio + chances at ordinaries and up | [11:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman2 100\% smalls sounds pretty wild. | [11:10] |
| Birdman2: | it was pretty wild for a min there man | [11:11] |
| Birdman2: | think now its ~ 2.5:1 small to tiny | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | thousands of smalls ?! | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | ahaha what! | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | i get like... 10 tinies to the small ? or thereabouts. | [11:11] |
| Birdman2: | i must have mined over a q mil grass yeah | [11:11] |
| Birdman2: | heh | [11:11] |
| Birdman2: | i didnt wanna let the cat out of the bag, but now that my ratio is all fucked whats it matter | [11:12] |
| Birdman2: | i would only get tinies with regular tools | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | o so this was with sticks ? | [11:12] |
| Birdman2: | imp tools | [11:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | soooo... it pleases me to announce that pursuant to studying the very strange matter of my outlier lj quality impact, i've found and fixed a few errors in how the quality and skill impact is calculated. one affected gathering. another affected tinkering. the third affected lumberjack. expect wildly different q outputs once the server comes back up. | [11:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | going down in anbout half hour, will be down maybe 5 minutes. | [11:25] |
| Birdman2: | nice | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | scrambles to find in the logs the instances of mircea_popescu going "no, no, no there's NOTHING wrong with lumberjack " | [11:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha ? | [11:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | i said there's nothing wrong with grocery. amusingly, there isn't :D | [11:26] |
| diana_coman: | I said "or lumberjack" and you said no | [11:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | i... guess. | [11:28] |
| diana_coman: | http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-11-30.log.html#t08:31:21 | [11:30] |
| lobbesbot: | Title: #Eulora log for Monday, 2015-11-30 (at logs.minigame.bz) | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | found it :p | [11:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | seems pretty weak eh ? :D | [11:30] |
| diana_coman: | Birdman2> i would only get tinies with regular tools <- uhm, I got those smalls for you with regular tools | [11:31] |
| diana_coman: | so even broken, gathering certainly still mattered | [11:32] |
| Birdman2: | broken? | [11:32] |
| Birdman2: | also, you =/ me lol i personally couldnt get tinies from regular tools whilist mining grass, rf, or rr | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | see above MP's statement re error | [11:32] |
| diana_coman: | don't you think that has to do with gathering level diff? | [11:33] |
| Birdman2: | i think thats almost entirely what it was | [11:33] |
| Birdman2: | which is why i think i will stop leveling until i fall back into that sweet spot | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | oh, sweet spot theory, ok | [11:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | alrighty, tests passed. we're going down! | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | ready | [11:34] |
| Birdman2: | im all set | [11:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | and we're back | [11:38] |
| Birdman2: | now to run concrete numbers against my old grass numbers and see how much worse they are | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | maybe they are better Birdman2 | [11:40] |
| Birdman2: | whats worse is that it was already a congested area with those claims there, but now with added tinies in the mix its gonna be even worse | [11:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | claims go away in an hourish | [11:40] |
| Birdman2: | i mean if this yield per claim is high enough to make it more profitable somehow yeah diana_coman | [11:40] |
| Birdman2: | but i doubt that | [11:40] |
| Birdman2: | the locked grass claims i mean | [11:41] |
| diana_coman: | ahahahahah, I get 109 on tinkering now | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | at least it is somewhere not in the fucking middle anymore no matter what, lolz | [11:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaand my shrooms are now... q124 | [11:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | god damn it. | [11:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is by far the wrost part abouyt playing your own game : when you gotta nerf yourself. | [11:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | doesn't even dare look what his tinkering's at. | [11:44] |
| Birdman2: | heh | [11:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | prolly... 130 ? | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | well, I'd say you got at least quite a bunch of high q tpt, wm and the like, not that bad altogether | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | mhm, so then you need to update the shop? or not? | [11:46] |
| Birdman2: | there a command you can use to teleport to that orb? | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | no Birdman2, it does it automatically when you touch the map's edges basically | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | well, SOME edges | [11:51] |
| Birdman2: | hmm | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | it's a kind of slap on the wrists for going in forbidden places kind of, lol | [11:52] |
| Birdman2: | right, im just trying to scheme ways to transport things | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | still 116 on mining here | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | easiest in my xp is to load them on a table and then drop /move/pickup/repeat it all the way to the village | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | (if they are on a table, you have less chances of having them go underground or something ) | [11:53] |
| Birdman2: | yeah same | [11:53] |
| Birdman2: | though ive memorized all the pit falls between the grass and village | [11:53] |
| diana_coman: | ahaha | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | works I guess | [11:54] |
| Birdman2: | mostly need to watch out for steep hills and trees is what i gather from it | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | that for sure, or otherwise put them on your head basically | [11:54] |
| Birdman2: | but it gives you a little preview of where itll land so its not that sketchy | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | but I find it easier with a big table, lol | [11:54] |
| Birdman2: | yeah table helps to move more than one stack | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | + that | [11:54] |
| Birdman2: | and its taller so things can be redeemed if they fall in a hole | [11:54] |
| Birdman2: | most holes that is, found a few that will swallow the hole thing | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | that was my main point; and heh, see my solid branches adventure re "swallow" | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | still 135 on farming here | [11:57] |
| jurov: | Birdman2: imp hoes q 29768 are available for 70k here | [11:58] |
| jurov: | (and anyone else) | [11:58] |
| Birdman2: | i may wait until someone else makes it unless you can offer a better price, thats more than double the price i paid for the last batch for like 40\% more uses | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | and 163q on basics after 1 level up in sortage, so kind of...same? lol | [11:59] |
| jurov: | but these are proclaimed splendiferous by none other than mircea mircescu | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha jurov | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | what q are you tinkering now? | [12:00] |
| jurov: | lol 75 | [12:01] |
| jurov: | was 105 for awhile, what did you do? | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | so you lost about 30 points? it's not that bad | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | I went from 167 to 109 | [12:02] |
| diana_coman: | so more like 60 points down, lol | [12:02] |
| jurov: | or someone ate the clever beans or whatsitscalled | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | oh, no jurov, it was a correction, see mp's line above | [12:03] |
| diana_coman: | on the bright side, I can actually overcraft now with my *own* basics, joy of joys | [12:04] |
| jurov: | ah ise | [12:04] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, mircea_popescu now I leveled farming up from 60\% with 1 ordinary while earlier it did not even budge (same level) with such pitiful offering; so if there was nothing wrong with farming is this an effect of gathering or what? | [12:13] |
| diana_coman: | farming and sortage in the gathering tab now, yaaay | [12:14] |
| jurov: | sortage was always there | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | farming was in tinkering by mistake | [12:17] |
| jurov: | does farming anything interesting? can you /harvest? | [12:18] |
| diana_coman: | farming seems to improve my q on groceries | [12:19] |
| jurov: | aok, i don't do groceries, not have hygienic clearance | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | and furthermore mircea_popescu now mcguyver output is ...the very same as tinker output despite a level of 200 in mcguyver?? | [12:25] |
| danielpbarron: | why are the threads that were in my inventory at quality 107 ? | [13:27] |
| danielpbarron: | i understand that anything i tinker after this reset should come out to a lower quality, but those threads were made pre-reset | [13:27] |
| danielpbarron: | the threads that were in my storage are still 142 | [13:27] |
| danielpbarron: | for the record, 1335 threads | [13:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron possibly you added to the pile in your inv ? | [15:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | in other sad news, 27/1347 = 0.020044543 | [15:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol this pile of keys on the ground looks like an anthill | [15:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | ironically, my sm comes out 109. | [15:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | aaaand i tinker q149 now. | [15:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | meh. | [15:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | is at least happy he has some of diana's very good q160 cft. | [15:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | HA! grass at q207 | [15:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | MWAHAHAHAHA! HAHA! | [15:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | soooo... i will be overcrafting mine owne grass nao! | [15:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | and get more sortage therefore ans so on! | [15:49] |
| diana_coman: | yes, that's the good part | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | it seems strange though the mcguyver, had a chance to look at it? | [15:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | ima have to see what it all did for the other craftlines. | [15:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | mno, what happened ? | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | my mcguyver output is precisely the same as that of pure tinkering, while my mcguyver skill is 200 | [15:50] |
| diana_coman: | somehow it doesn't seem right, unless truly otherwise one gets some dismal stuff on mcguyver | [15:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | mmm | [15:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | you mean the same as it used to be, or the same as it is now ? | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | no, no, the same now | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | I get 109 on tinkering | [15:51] |
| diana_coman: | and 109 on mcguyver | [15:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'll be looking into this yeah. | [15:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | what;s your tinkering skill ? | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | 470 | [15:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | could also be coincidence. | [15:52] |
| diana_coman: | has no idea, hence asking | [15:53] |
| diana_coman: | oh, and as mentioned earlier: farming now seems actually *easier* to level up | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | the reset/update was in the middle of a 20-wwb ordinaries build run of mine | [15:56] |
| diana_coman: | and the difference was quite clear (previously I'd need about 3 ordinaries to at least notice the difference in the bar while now each ordinary would increase the skill quite clearly (3-4 ordinaries got me 1 level up) | [15:57] |
| diana_coman: | ingredients were the same btw | [15:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman farming wasn't touched tho. | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | then something of what was touched touches upon it | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | the only conclusion I can get to, really | [15:59] |
| diana_coman: | possibly gathering I suppose | [15:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | not sure how that'd work. | [16:02] |
| danielpbarron: | mircea_popescu> danielpbarron possibly you added to the pile in your inv ? << i had not crafted anything since the restart | [16:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | then i have nfi, other than "this isn't possibru". items aren't involved / weren't touched | [16:26] |
| danielpbarron: | did the quality change happen before the restart? | [16:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is possible tho shouldn't be the case. | [16:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | in any case danielpbarron : log off, say when you're logged off an' i'll fix 'em for ya. | [16:38] |
| jurov: | foxybot won't train tinkering, despite it says it will , and not overweight after moving materials into crafttable | [17:36] |
| jurov: | is it possible to search in system messages? | [17:41] |
| diana_coman: | jurov check in the log if you log all the stuff in the main window | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | if it says it tries to train, then it sends the message | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | but something might go wrong | [17:44] |
| diana_coman: | most probably you are too far away from heina? | [17:44] |
| jurov: | when i move stuff to table and train by hand it goes fine | [17:45] |
| jurov: | without moving | [17:45] |
| jurov: | where it should be logged? it isn't in chat log | [17:50] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, what's in the chat log depends on your settings | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | but if it's not there, then I don't know of any other place to find it | [17:51] |
| diana_coman: | the bot doesn't log errors (as "error" is not easily defined really) | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | scrolling up in your chat window? | [17:52] |
| diana_coman: | did it train tinkering before and now all of a sudden it fails? | [17:52] |
| jurov: | it did train before, except when i was overweight | [18:10] |
| jurov: | after putting materials to table | [18:10] |
| jurov: | fuu and now i have made 19 slag bundles? | [18:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | fortunately table has no decay so no big deal | [18:12] |
| diana_coman: | jurov that sounds like a mix-up/connection thing | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | ftr I just had an awful time connecting to eulora | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | delayed messages and the like | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | got out of the game and then I had problems getting back in | [18:14] |
| diana_coman: | that annoying thing when it says the server is up but then it fails to connect | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | repeatedly | [18:15] |
| diana_coman: | jurov fuu and now i have made 19 slag bundles? <- this esp is something you'd get if messages start coming totally out of order | [18:16] |
| danielpbarron: | my macro also got jammed up in whatever caused jurov's problems | [20:10] |
| danielpbarron: | i have 43 thread bundles | [20:11] |
| danielpbarron: | mircea_popescu, i'm ready to log out now. I can't tell if it was already fixed while i was disconnected from an internet hicup | [20:13] |
| danielpbarron: | but i have 1335 threads in my inventory | [20:13] |
| danielpbarron: | the ones that should be 142 but are 107 instead | [20:13] |
| danielpbarron: | i logged out for now | [20:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | kk | [21:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | fixing it | [21:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron enjoy. | [21:04] |
| danielpbarron: | thank you | [21:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | (and yeah it turns out it did cache-refresh just as you were crafting. complex systems eh.) | [21:10] |
Comments feed: RSS 2.0