#eulora Logs for 21 Oct 2015


October 21st, 2015 by Diana Coman
diana_coman: danielpbarron I can sell you the sticks, yeah [02:09]
diana_coman: just ping me when you are around [02:10]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu I still have more ft than ppb, so it's mainly ppb I'm after [02:10]
mircea_popescu: aha [02:17]
danielpbarron: diana_coman, ping [06:14]
diana_coman: aha [06:24]
diana_coman: still three danielpbarron? [06:24]
diana_coman: how many sticks you want? [06:24]
danielpbarron: how many you got? [06:25]
diana_coman: I should still have about 15 for now I think [06:25]
danielpbarron: i'll take em [06:27]
diana_coman: ok, I'm in the village, come over [06:27]
diana_coman: oh wow, did you hit anything large mircea_popescu? the quality seems to have gone down by 5 points at least since 10 hours ago, lol [06:57]
diana_coman: coupled with the fact that I ranked up one level in gathering and STILL not even 1 level in farming (while actually doing *only* farming stuff), I guess getting above 200q in groceries is not going to happen [06:59]
diana_coman: or not this year :)) [06:59]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman yeah 30k grass [10:35]
mircea_popescu: o motherfucker. i left it overnight to craft, it LOST INTERNET [10:36]
mircea_popescu: god damned [10:36]
mircea_popescu: i am going to end up having someone to guard this damned thing [10:36]
mircea_popescu: it lost connection 5 minute4s after i went to bed [10:36]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman hey you're guarding ma table :D [10:36]
chetty: aawww [10:37]
mircea_popescu: ;/ [10:38]
mircea_popescu: gah im gonna have to make another table huh [10:42]
diana_coman: oh wow, congrats on the grass [11:25]
diana_coman: too bad for q though :p [11:25]
diana_coman: sorry for the table thing, I actually used it since it was lying around, lol [11:26]
mircea_popescu: sokay you can keep it, i made another one [11:26]
diana_coman: will collect tables :D [11:27]
mircea_popescu: lol [11:27]
diana_coman: will you sell cft? [11:27]
mircea_popescu: 450ea [11:27]
diana_coman: what q? [11:27]
mircea_popescu: 200 [11:28]
diana_coman: I'll buy [11:28]
mircea_popescu: how much ? [11:28]
diana_coman: 10k would be SOO nice, lol [11:28]
diana_coman: as much as you sell really [11:29]
mircea_popescu: o.O [11:29]
mircea_popescu: should sell it for MOAR. [11:29]
diana_coman: well, I don't have lots of MOARs [11:29]
diana_coman: :p [11:29]
mircea_popescu: but anyway, i figure i pass off 3k ea to you and danielpbarron if he wants any, and 1k chunks for mod jurov if they want it, [11:29]
mircea_popescu: once it's done [11:29]
mircea_popescu: then go dig up... more grass.\ [11:29]
diana_coman: funny enough, mod6 had yesterday better cft than me because he had it from some time ago, lol [11:30]
mircea_popescu: sucks that im stuck here crafting it now instead of it being done overnight but whatcha gonna do. if it's not one thing it's another. [11:30]
mircea_popescu: well yeah he used to buy it from me. but i doubt over 200 ? [11:30]
diana_coman: close to 200 [11:30]
mircea_popescu: yeah strangely enough, my quality has been very stable at 200ish for a long time now. [11:31]
diana_coman: oh, btw, I ended up with another sb ord, are you buying sb? [11:31]
diana_coman: I guess I'll give it to mod to build [11:31]
mircea_popescu: yep [11:31]
mircea_popescu: i would buy 1mn sb in cash right now. [11:31]
diana_coman: ok, will do then, he sells you the sb, you make it ppb [11:32]
mircea_popescu: aite. [11:32]
diana_coman: I'm stuck because of no sortage, as otherwise I'd gladly let it run around and explore ALL THE FUCKING TIME [11:32]
diana_coman: but gah [11:32]
mircea_popescu: i wish someone found a cooking skill because i could use some low ft ffs. [11:32]
diana_coman: or that, sure [11:32]
diana_coman: though atm I am stuk with mining as my best alternative quite clearly [11:33]
mircea_popescu: i think it's settled, sunday gonna be, another altar auction day. [11:33]
mircea_popescu: goes off to announce [11:33]
diana_coman: thinks it will be an ever-more-interesting auction despite the "same" item [11:34]
diana_coman: lol [11:34]
mircea_popescu: lol [11:34]
diana_coman: or rather: because of it being the same item :)) [11:34]
diana_coman: danielpbarron is Birdman still alive? [11:34]
diana_coman: iirc he was "going to get some BTC" and start crafting the hell out of whatever screens he still has [11:35]
diana_coman: or something like that [11:35]
jurov: mircea_popescu: can get the tools pls? [11:49]
mircea_popescu: can get! onesec [11:49]
lobbes: @seen Birdman [12:20]
lobbesbot: lobbes: Birdman was last seen in #eulora 4 weeks, 1 day, 17 hours, 42 minutes, and 8 seconds ago: <Birdman> jurov: id like to deposit some money into eulora [12:20]
jurov: he never tried again [12:21]
mircea_popescu: o hey nice functionality [12:23]
mod6: Hi diana_coman, im in-game. Hit me up for a trade and I'll get you settled. [12:37]
diana_coman: yay [12:37]
mircea_popescu: mod6 did you need thread btw ? [12:53]
mod6: ive got a serious pile. [12:57]
mod6: but i always need more. [12:57]
mircea_popescu: a cool [12:57]
mircea_popescu: hm. well which is it lol. want like 1k ? [12:57]
mod6: yeah. def. im building this ord right now. i'll come by and swap you for SBs. [12:58]
mod6: just got 1267 of 'em. [12:58]
mircea_popescu: be an hour or so, only got like 300 cooked yet [12:58]
mod6: and i can't carry them. lol. [12:58]
mircea_popescu: o hey that's pretty good. [12:58]
mod6: i'll just put 'em in the mine and lock it i guess. have to make some trips. [12:59]
mod6: only 77 qual tho :/ [13:00]
mircea_popescu: this is good. [13:02]
mod6: you wanna sell me those threads quick? [13:03]
mircea_popescu: be an hour or so, only got like 300 cooked yet < [13:04]
mod6: oh good actually. i gotta run out and grab a taco quick. [13:04]
mod6: :] brb [13:04]
mircea_popescu: lobbes is the rss broken ? been ~ 1 hour [13:30]
diana_coman: awww both altar and pb [13:35]
diana_coman: wow [13:35]
mircea_popescu: should be interesting [13:36]
diana_coman: indeed [13:36]
diana_coman: This will also be the last Sacrifice auction this year, so if you're looking to keep the rest of the players in the darkness of ignorance, now's your chance! [13:41]
diana_coman: ahahah, pretty much [13:41]
diana_coman: good description there, lol [13:41]
diana_coman: the past three months of horrible ignorance [13:41]
diana_coman: brought on by...Faith [13:41]
diana_coman: not surprisingly or what [13:41]
mircea_popescu: sacrifice! [13:42]
diana_coman: neah, basically a tight and small group of priests of the Altar [13:42]
diana_coman: lol [13:42]
mircea_popescu: so i take it you're bidding eh ? :D [13:42]
diana_coman: guess so [13:43]
diana_coman: quite sure danielpbarron will bid too, lol [13:55]
mircea_popescu: i'm tempted to bid myself ;/ [13:55]
chetty: apparently religion works in eulora just like it does in meatspace [14:01]
jurov: what's this sacrifice thing about? [14:03]
mircea_popescu: jurov it's a new craft line, introduced a few months ago [14:08]
jurov: and if i understand it right, it never produced any skill items since? [14:09]
jurov: or what is it supposed to do [14:09]
mircea_popescu: it produced a tons of various stuff, as far as we know. just... prolly no skills. danielpbarron been kinda quiet about it. [14:10]
lobbes: <mircea_popescu> lobbes is the rss broken ? been ~ 1 hour << yeah, this lag thing is starting to become a problem. It does *eventually* retrieve the feeds but something is wrong somewhere [14:16]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman so bot stopped crafting for no apparent reason i could discern and that was that. [14:17]
mircea_popescu: 13876 left to do, fuck me, what does it care. [14:17]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman just did it again, 80 clicks in [14:31]
mircea_popescu: it PICKS UP the crafted item,. then pretends it didn't and keeps waiting for it to finish, forever. [14:31]
diana_coman: ugh, that's the first time I hear [14:35]
mircea_popescu: did it twice in 400 clicks. [14:35]
diana_coman: I can't really see how would that happen [14:35]
mircea_popescu: i moved the table closer see if that does anything [14:35]
mircea_popescu: skilling failures not involved as i didn't level any. [14:35]
diana_coman: picking up the craft item is a different stage [14:35]
diana_coman: so if it did that I can't see how would it be that it keeps waiting for it, uhm [14:36]
diana_coman: I'll have another look in the code, this is something new [14:36]
mircea_popescu: im running it now keeping an eye on it. [14:37]
diana_coman: has it ever ended up like this with an empty container basically while still waiting for stuff? [14:38]
diana_coman: sounds really weird [14:38]
mircea_popescu: haven't noticed it happen before. [14:38]
mircea_popescu: things that are exceptional : im making 14k cft and i have four staks of multi k's in inv [14:38]
diana_coman: from the bot's point of view, it shouldn't matter in the slightest [14:39]
diana_coman: only if something else in the client makes things go weird in such case [14:40]
diana_coman: it's also weird that it is about the table really [14:40]
diana_coman: otherwise I'd say it might get stuck if the container is worn-out [14:40]
mircea_popescu: yea. i dunno [14:40]
diana_coman: as I didn't know at the time about this new "feature" [14:40]
mircea_popescu: ya but nothing like that. [14:40]
diana_coman: so it doesn't wait for it [14:40]
diana_coman: let me know if you notice anything else/again [14:41]
diana_coman: I'll have a look in the code too [14:41]
mircea_popescu: ya. [14:41]
diana_coman: will be back a bit later [14:41]
mircea_popescu: aand now it failed to train. [15:29]
diana_coman: listen, do you have any lag? [15:30]
mircea_popescu: none\ [15:30]
diana_coman: as my client is playing up like crazy [15:30]
diana_coman: I move things and they are not there and all that stuff, not sure why [15:30]
mircea_popescu: /ping says 238 [15:31]
diana_coman: well, 165 here [15:31]
diana_coman: so what [15:31]
mircea_popescu: aha. [15:31]
diana_coman: it's still behaving weirdly [15:31]
diana_coman: for instance now I shred some stuff [15:31]
diana_coman: and it's done [15:31]
diana_coman: BUT [15:31]
diana_coman: my table shows most of the recipes still there [15:31]
mircea_popescu: now it failed. [15:31]
mircea_popescu: with the product AND 3 grass in table [15:32]
diana_coman: it seems to me this is more likely to be related [15:32]
diana_coman: aha [15:32]
diana_coman: as I said [15:32]
mircea_popescu: and the bitch is, it's waiting for the crafdt it never started to finish [15:32]
diana_coman: it's this shit I'm seeing here too [15:32]
mircea_popescu: well, this is yet different from the earlier issue [15:32]
diana_coman: and btw I am NOT using the bot [15:32]
diana_coman: is that grass there for real or just an artefact? [15:32]
diana_coman: I think some messages get discarded [15:32]
diana_coman: which is something the bot cannot do anything about really [15:33]
mircea_popescu: was for real [15:33]
mircea_popescu: woot 202 now! [15:33]
mircea_popescu: ahahah! [15:33]
diana_coman: 202 what? [15:34]
diana_coman: ping? [15:34]
mircea_popescu: no, cft q [15:35]
diana_coman: lol, better [15:35]
mircea_popescu: o ya. been working to get it for ~10 datys now [15:35]
diana_coman: so let me see if I got the sequence right at least as to what is going on there [15:36]
diana_coman: it starts a craft fine [15:36]
diana_coman: then the craft finishes fine [15:36]
diana_coman: it actually takes the thing? [15:36]
diana_coman: or no if you said it was still there? [15:36]
mircea_popescu: two types. earlier type, took the thing, but still waited to take the thing. [15:36]
mircea_popescu: rightnow type, didn't take the thing, put next craft in, clicked begin [15:37]
diana_coman: that really sounds like a message that got lost/discarde [15:37]
diana_coman: discarded [15:37]
mircea_popescu: possible. [15:37]
diana_coman: it's pretty much the only option [15:37]
diana_coman: those messages are a mess really [15:37]
mircea_popescu: the problem here is this : bot lacks the concept of a hard reset. [15:38]
diana_coman: trouble is that ...what the hell can the bot do really, short of actually checking that the stupid item truly is there [15:38]
diana_coman: which I would have done [15:38]
mircea_popescu: if it finds itself in a situation it doesn't understand/shouldn't see, [15:38]
mircea_popescu: RESET [15:38]
diana_coman: if it weren't SO idiotic [15:38]
diana_coman: but it doesn't know!!! [15:38]
diana_coman: that's the trouble [15:38]
mircea_popescu: at some point the craft took too long. reset. [15:38]
diana_coman: making it aware of it is a huge problem [15:38]
mircea_popescu: at some point it waited too much for X thing. [15:39]
diana_coman: well, I guess the "too long for the craft" thing is the easiest blanket approach, sure [15:39]
diana_coman: pretty much the only one really [15:39]
mircea_popescu: ya [15:39]
diana_coman: if the craft takes longer than x times what you said, reset [15:39]
mircea_popescu: "i dunno wtf happened there, but : i want this 3 grass into a thread please" [15:39]
diana_coman: trouble is that I can see it resetting 10 times and the thing repeating lol [15:39]
mircea_popescu: sorta ai [15:40]
mircea_popescu: well, yes, but at least then it won't look bad :) [15:40]
diana_coman: you get into layers and layers of that [15:40]
mircea_popescu: "dude, i've been trying, whadda ya want from me" [15:40]
diana_coman: sure, that's not a problem [15:40]
jurov: i have problems with heaps of overcraft. can't train even if bot moves source material to the container [15:40]
jurov: especially bct recipe cumulation tends to be disastrous [15:41]
diana_coman: that's a different story jurov and well, loot can be quite anything so.... [15:41]
jurov: i've though about bot noticing "You've got..." messages and moving these out for training, too. but complicated. [15:42]
diana_coman: it can certainly be done too but it's a ton of work and I did not really find it the most important thing [15:43]
diana_coman: well, the approach I'd have taken would basically be the sane one of going through the inventory and moving all the big stashes or something, but due to client's current org, that's not as easy as it should be [15:43]
diana_coman: quite on the contrary [15:43]
diana_coman: so I think I'd probably end up restructuring the client if I start on that, so ..ugh, no :))) [15:44]
diana_coman: I settled there for the relatively "simple" compromise of moving ingredients only [15:44]
jurov: anyway, not sure i'll keep crafting in that way. i suspect at least tens of millions coppers are sunk into this overcraft [15:45]
jurov: with very unclear perspective of it ever recouped [15:45]
diana_coman: see the discussion earlier in the logs [15:45]
diana_coman: re value of bps esp for cft [15:46]
jurov: where pls? it's too much to follow everything [15:47]
mircea_popescu: oh that's why it fails to train : recipe stak in mind is 9k [15:47]
diana_coman: ha [15:47]
diana_coman: so it actually IS overweight ? [15:47]
mircea_popescu: ya. so that's explained [15:48]
mircea_popescu: jurov http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-10-20.log.html#t23:07:21 and ulterior. [15:48]
lobbesbot: Title: #Eulora log for Tuesday, 2015-10-20 (at logs.minigame.bz) [15:48]
diana_coman: I think I even pinged you there jurov, esp as I thought it would be of interest to you [15:49]
jurov: yes, but despite mircea's prices i'm far in the red [15:51]
jurov: it all goes into experience and recipes [15:53]
jurov: imma prolly should find a noob to embezzle, too [15:54]
diana_coman: jurov, that's how it goes while doing apprenticeship as it were [15:55]
diana_coman: that's why I suggested you might prefer to balance it with my ingredients [15:55]
diana_coman: as in buy ingredients for me as they still give you a decent overcraft [15:55]
diana_coman: but you pay less and sell output to mircea [15:55]
diana_coman: or anyway, someone in between as it were [15:56]
diana_coman: if there are enough people basically you can balance it anywhere you want [15:56]
diana_coman: for all budgets and all speeds kind of thing [15:56]
jurov: not sure changing input from 200 to 160 would make meaningful difference [15:58]
diana_coman: well, price is calculated base_value*quality*1.25 [15:59]
jurov: is there a list of base values? electron shows zeroes everywhere [15:59]
diana_coman: so it depends what you are talking about, but in any case, if it doesn't make a difference when you buy it, how come it makes a difference when you sell, lol [15:59]
diana_coman: your storage [15:59]
jurov: there too [15:59]
diana_coman: ugh, really? [15:59]
jurov: try it [16:00]
diana_coman: I made mine for those I used most, but uhm [16:00]
diana_coman: I'll have a look [16:00]
jurov: looks like it improved. but for example, for mircea's pickaxe it shows 18704 [16:02]
jurov: for q 18756 [16:02]
diana_coman: well, tools are quite different anyway [16:02]
jurov: now i am supposed to multiply it by all used materials, ammortization, recipes to get some price? [16:02]
diana_coman: for tools base value is kind of at least directly the quality [16:02]
diana_coman: uhm? [16:03]
diana_coman: it's up to you really [16:03]
diana_coman: I don't know what items you are checking exactly, as I can see values for things I am looking at, in the store tab [16:04]
jurov: yes, i'll figure it out slowly. and exactly then the rules will change randomly. [16:04]
jurov: or i forget it halfway :( [16:05]
diana_coman: uhm, my understanding was that the rules precisely do not change [16:06]
diana_coman: otherwise indeed, it is a hidden but steep learning curve for sure [16:06]
jurov: consider i have there one cdg with q 465, storage shows 240 [16:07]
jurov: now value normalized to 100 is 240/4.65=51.6? [16:07]
diana_coman: yes [16:07]
jurov: but the same for q 1000 i bought from electron yields 60... [16:09]
diana_coman: that does sound weird and on my list I do have it as 60 [16:10]
diana_coman: I'll prolly just put the list online too fwiw [16:10]
diana_coman: I'm kind of eulora's librarian or something anyway, lolz [16:11]
jurov: and my own grass of q 81 has 0 value [16:11]
jurov: acc to storage [16:11]
diana_coman: I think under 100 or below some thresholds it just lists it as 0 [16:11]
jurov: that's helpful [16:12]
diana_coman: uhm, it's a bit weird as I actually get the 60 (base value) for cdg? [16:14]
jurov: the q 465 was created by mixing, so maybe it ignores the value of "worthless" part of the stack [16:14]
jurov: gotta try experiment [16:14]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu got any cft ready? [16:15]
jurov: mixed 81+100 together, got 2 cdg of q 540, storage says value = 300 [16:16]
jurov: so, obv only the one 1000 cft went in [16:16]
jurov: into the computation [16:17]
diana_coman: sounds like that [16:17]
jurov: now, is it the same value as goes into the craft? [16:18]
jurov: then i should never ever try to dilute raw materials with sub-100 stuff to decrease overcraft [16:19]
diana_coman: how am I to know, lol [16:19]
diana_coman: you can try and calculate [16:19]
diana_coman: calculate the bundle value and check with what the bundle is [16:19]
jurov: first, i threw in another 81 cdg into above bundle, now it says value is 180 [16:22]
jurov: but 600/3 would be 200 [16:22]
jurov: another, it stays at 180 (but now it's 4 cdg in stack) [16:25]
jurov: another, 120 for 5 cdg (happens to be 600/5) [16:26]
jurov: 120 for 6 [16:27]
jurov: 120 for 7 and...only 60 for 8 [16:28]
jurov: won't go on here [16:31]
jurov: quality was averaged as you would expect [16:33]
jurov: in the 8 case quality was 194 and it did produce some overcraft (result cft q 83) [16:36]
jurov: so the value storage shows is clearly not used in crafting , quality is [16:36]
jurov: and what then the numbers mean? [16:37]
jurov: i would definitely not send a noob to go look there :D [16:39]
diana_coman: it seems that the storage is still quite messed up indeed [16:39]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> but anyway, i figure i pass off 3k ea to you and danielpbarron if he wants any << I do [17:19]
danielpbarron: diana_coman> danielpbarron is Birdman still alive? << haven't heard from him in a while [17:20]
danielpbarron: diana_coman> the past three months of horrible ignorance << not for lack of trying; I burned through one and a half altars, sacrificed almost everything there is to sacrifice [17:21]
diana_coman: uhm, you mean you always had huge overcraft on them and ...nothing at all? and in any case: what are you keeping the rest of the altar for? [17:23]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> it produced a tons of various stuff, as far as we know. just... prolly no skills. << I have managed to get a bunch of loot from the uncommon sacrifices (berries, leather, etc..) but nothing from the uber-rares (murky somethings, small sparkles, etc..) [17:23]
danielpbarron: jurov, I guess I need to buy some more coppers [17:25]
danielpbarron: jurov> there too << if your quality is under 100, the "base value" is 0 [17:27]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron how many clicks did you do ? [17:27]
jurov: danielpbarron: how do you explain the mixing, then? [17:28]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman ima feed mod6 his 1k first. got it done almost. [17:29]
diana_coman: ok [17:29]
diana_coman: danielpbarron out of curiosity and since I gather you want this altar too - what do you plan to do with it exactly if you get it? [17:30]
diana_coman: keep it until January? [17:30]
danielpbarron: jurov> then i should never ever try to dilute raw materials with sub-100 stuff to decrease overcraft << I noticed this too. there seems to be a 'memory' of what went into a mixed stack [17:30]
diana_coman: and anyway: then what? [17:30]
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu> danielpbarron how many clicks did you do ? << however many from the first altar plus half of the second [17:31]
danielpbarron: i have a plan for how to get loot from the uber rares [17:32]
mircea_popescu: all on the expensive stuff ? [17:32]
danielpbarron: no, mostly the cheaper stuff [17:32]
diana_coman: lol [17:33]
danielpbarron: if someone wants to supply me with 3 skill items and the supplication, and some copper for my altar wear, I'll give whatever pops out [17:33]
danielpbarron: probably will be just a grotesque token [17:33]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron so how many clicks of tyhe actual skill producing stuff did you do ? 10 ? 100 ? 1000 ? 2 ? [17:34]
diana_coman: it kind of makes more sense for a noob to use the altar now as the overcraft will be higher, won't it [17:34]
danielpbarron: probably around 10 [17:34]
diana_coman: lolz [17:35]
danielpbarron: costs more than 3 million per click at your guys' prices [17:35]
diana_coman: you mean at the q that goes in [17:35]
danielpbarron: i mean it uses 3 skill items [17:35]
danielpbarron: for example, 3 small sparkles [17:36]
mircea_popescu: yeah, they ARE very expensive. [17:36]
diana_coman: I suppose skills ARE very expensive anyway, indeed [17:37]
mircea_popescu: yeah. part of the problem is, if he makes things q 400 say, and a skill like the glowing pin is 1mn [17:37]
mircea_popescu: then he needs 4mn in loot to get one. [17:37]
diana_coman: that's why I was saying earlier about a noob making more sense [17:37]
diana_coman: and that's why I am not so keen on his offer to do a run on the altar with my stuff [17:38]
diana_coman: because ugh, doesn't sound like a good use of the skill items [17:38]
diana_coman: danielpbarron is that plan of yours along the lines find noob to be apprentice? [17:39]
danielpbarron: yes [17:39]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman but how are you not a noob ? [17:39]
diana_coman: I am mircea_popescu but he won't let me do it [17:40]
danielpbarron: :D [17:40]
diana_coman: if I were to do it then yes [17:40]
diana_coman: I'd be happy to pay him the coppers for the altar wear even [17:40]
diana_coman: but it wasn't that his proposition [17:40]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-10-21.log.html#t19:51:51 << how do you value the recipes ? [17:40]
lobbesbot: Title: #Eulora log for Wednesday, 2015-10-21 (at logs.minigame.bz) [17:40]
diana_coman: so danielpbarron that "plan" basically ensures that the age of darkness will be around for another few months if not more [17:41]
diana_coman: lol [17:41]
diana_coman: unless you just pick one of the people who actually ARE around and get on with it [17:41]
danielpbarron: doesn't the game need more n00bs anyway [17:42]
mircea_popescu: it does. [17:42]
diana_coman: sure, it does [17:42]
danielpbarron: i just haven't advertised it enough in the main chan [17:42]
diana_coman: really? :))) [17:42]
danielpbarron: i have to go for now; will be on later tonight [17:43]
mircea_popescu: http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-10-21.log.html#t20:05:50 << or you quit for a few months :D [17:43]
lobbesbot: Title: #Eulora log for Wednesday, 2015-10-21 (at logs.minigame.bz) [17:43]
mircea_popescu: lobbes could it say the line instead of the title ? [17:43]
mircea_popescu: jurov mixed 81+100 together, got 2 cdg of q 540, storage says value = 300 << cdg of 540 should be ~300 yes. q100 is 60. [17:48]
jurov: yes but then i tried to add more 81 cdg and numbers went obtuse [17:50]
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's strictly a temporary display / merchant issue. the game knows and uses the right values. [17:50]
mircea_popescu: the thing got fucked up on the last update, and it's on the lisrt to be fixed asap. [17:50]
diana_coman: mircea_popescu I guess the issue was mainly that it's kind of really hard for a noob now to figure out anything, due to that problem; I am working on publishing what list I have of base values though as a quick help [17:56]
diana_coman: hopefully that would be enough for now until the display issue is solved [17:56]
mircea_popescu: yes. [17:56]
mircea_popescu: anyway, turns out the altar has really two professions in it : one is to make high q rares. the other is to make skills. you apparently can't do both at the same time and danielpbarron chose/ended up in the former. [17:59]
mircea_popescu: amusingly they're complimentary : the more expensive clicks for skills made by a low xp guy, the higher q the high q gets for the rares. [17:59]
mircea_popescu: they just can't be the same person is all. [17:59]
diana_coman: ahahahaha [18:00]
mircea_popescu: see the logic ? [18:00]
mircea_popescu: im kinda proud of myself, seeing the economy of means with which the conundrum was implemented. [18:00]
diana_coman: oh, I see it all right, I'm just amused that here as in real life, religion instantly sends all my alarms ringing [18:01]
diana_coman: lol [18:01]
mircea_popescu: lol [18:01]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman what was the recipe for the lapidary table ? [18:18]
diana_coman: lolz [18:18]
diana_coman: let me have a look [18:18]
diana_coman: bubble, unsteady scaffolding, 1-2 toolkits [18:23]
diana_coman: that's all [18:23]
mircea_popescu: so the us is like 200k base and i can make it q 200 [18:23]
diana_coman: it's a mcguyvered thing [18:23]
mircea_popescu: toolkits whatever, 60k ea, also 200ish [18:23]
mircea_popescu: so the bubble is say 45k out of 370k so like 12\% ? thus you get a pretty significant guaranteed overcraft there, be like q 300 bundle [18:24]
mircea_popescu: if you manage to win / buy from winner [18:24]
diana_coman: yeah, lol [18:24]
mircea_popescu: you gonna click it yourself or have noob do it ? [18:25]
diana_coman: I'll have to decide, as I might do one myself (I have 2 bps) [18:26]
mircea_popescu: o you got 2 ? that's nice. [18:26]
mircea_popescu: course the other thing is, a 3-400k cvlick is prolly overskill even for me [18:27]
diana_coman: can't help that really [18:28]
diana_coman: but that's why I am thinking of doing one myself first [18:28]
diana_coman: and hopefully getting more [18:28]
mircea_popescu: yeah. i think it's about 200k at level 300 [18:28]
mircea_popescu: course the idea is... click it with high skill and get a high q table NOW and lesser bps/lower bp chance [18:28]
mircea_popescu: or get noob to do it, lower q but maybe more bps. [18:29]
diana_coman: aside that: is there now a way to craft/get the basic skill items (murky somethings, rocks etc) ? [18:29]
mircea_popescu: total fucking psychological experiment. [18:29]
diana_coman: yes, lol [18:29]
mircea_popescu: iirc that was mostly a table thing. see, originally bouq did that. [18:29]
mircea_popescu: which is kinda why i would think it's unfair to compare bouq tables from back then to them now. [18:29]
diana_coman: uhm, not the rocks themselves, rather supp of rocks iirc [18:30]
mircea_popescu: i would totally pay 10mn for a table if it dropped sparkles etc [18:30]
diana_coman: those were just spawned initially [18:30]
mircea_popescu: nono, it dropped the items themselve.s [18:30]
mircea_popescu: i got a pile of sparkles etc [18:30]
diana_coman: oh yes, but NOT the mysterious rock fo rinstance [18:30]
diana_coman: or the chicken scribblings [18:30]
diana_coman: did it? [18:30]
mircea_popescu: i think those too [18:30]
diana_coman: uhm [18:30]
mircea_popescu: i certainly never collected them and have a pile also. [18:31]
mircea_popescu: besides they say i crafted them [18:31]
diana_coman: that's totally weird then [18:31]
diana_coman: but then it gets even more interesting if now they are not looted/crafted from anywhere else otherwise [18:31]
mircea_popescu: aha. [18:31]
diana_coman: do you sell them? [18:31]
mircea_popescu: they ARE lootable, just, apparently, not often looted. [18:32]
mircea_popescu: i could sell some, sure. [18:32]
diana_coman: so they ARE still lootable from somewhere, now? [18:32]
mircea_popescu: there's 11 skills. 6 are lootable, 5 are uniquely through sacrifice. says in that post! [18:32]
diana_coman: I thought they were meant to be *new* skills, lol [18:33]
mircea_popescu: or was it the other way, 5 and 6. [18:33]
diana_coman: 5 through sacrifice it says [18:33]
mircea_popescu: the only thing new in this world is the skills you don't have. [18:33]
mircea_popescu: aha ok. [18:33]
diana_coman: so 6 lootable so ok [18:33]
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many people got large piles of the spawns [18:34]
mircea_popescu: jurov maybe ? [18:34]
danielpbarron: has some [18:34]
danielpbarron: about 20 of each [18:34]
jurov: of what? [18:34]
mircea_popescu: funny how this goes lol. who knew then, they had to be camped! [18:34]
danielpbarron: also, it should be said that initially I sacrificed a bunch of them [18:34]
jurov: i got nothing unusual so far [18:34]
mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, who knew when bouq table came out that the thing to do is grind it down RIGHT NOW [18:35]
danielpbarron: were the first things i sacrificed, and no loot [18:35]
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron sucks huh. [18:35]
danielpbarron: er, not quite first; i first used up the (10 i think?) berries supplications, and then I did one of each of the skill items [18:35]
danielpbarron: but i guess that's because nobody was a higher rank than me in sacrifice [18:36]
mircea_popescu: jurov of stuff like murky something [18:37]
mircea_popescu: so all i fucking did today was thread, and i'm nowhere NEAR done omfg. [18:38]
mircea_popescu: this grass will take a week or what. [18:38]
diana_coman: well, you knew mircea_popescu, lol [18:38]
mircea_popescu: i mean getting a tinker rank and all is nice, but... [18:38]
mircea_popescu: i wanna mine damnit. [18:38]
jurov: no, not even one [18:39]
mircea_popescu: i guess in fairness, 10mn worth of crafting taking a whole day isn't the end of the world. [18:39]
jurov: i'd have noticed [18:39]
mircea_popescu: jurov noticed ?! [18:39]
jurov: cuz i don't have any [18:39]
mircea_popescu: no i mean stashed, from before. [18:39]
mircea_popescu: a ok [18:39]
diana_coman: I think nobody but you mircea_popescu has truly large piles of spawns [18:40]
mircea_popescu: ha! [18:40]
jurov: only this damp pulp [18:40]
diana_coman: mainly as result of added lack of knowledge at every step as it unfolded [18:41]
jurov: would make nice big pyre [18:41]
jurov: er.. since it's damp... [18:41]
diana_coman: that's why I was saying a bit earlier that it "makes it even more interesting" [18:42]
mircea_popescu: i only wore down ~half my table. but i guess higher overcraft ? [18:42]
jurov: helluval lots of smoke then [18:42]
diana_coman: as basically whoever wins that altar [18:42]
mircea_popescu: jurov what pulp ? reeds ? [18:42]
diana_coman: still needs probably to buy some of those skill items from you [18:42]
jurov: no all the blueprints from overcraft [18:42]
mircea_popescu: ah. [18:42]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman hmmmm. [18:42]
diana_coman: and yes, probably higher overcraft combined with...dunno [18:42]
diana_coman: I mean yeah, I got sparkles [18:43]
diana_coman: lol [18:43]
diana_coman: and 1 single mcguyver thing [18:43]
diana_coman: and that was IT [18:43]
jurov: what are sparkles? [18:43]
diana_coman: lolz [18:43]
mircea_popescu: i think sparkles were by far the most common [18:43]
diana_coman: the skill item for lapidary [18:43]
diana_coman: jurov ^ [18:43]
diana_coman: well, so I burnt a ton back when the shredding recipes were way heftier than now [18:43]
diana_coman: so 999 instead of 99 [18:43]
diana_coman: and I got..the most common [18:44]
diana_coman: lolz [18:44]
diana_coman: yeah, unsurprising [18:44]
mircea_popescu: ima go in the inv in a bit see what exactly i got in there [18:44]
mircea_popescu: the cool thing about this slight overcraft with ltf (bundles are 291) is that i loot a little extra. [18:45]
mircea_popescu: the PROBLEM is that the item i craft is 202, but the extra i loot is 201. [18:45]
mircea_popescu: so now... i made 281 cft and actually have in inventory 292 [18:45]
mircea_popescu: so 11 extra [18:45]
mircea_popescu: BUT because of the god damned 11 extra, my cft is not 202 but 201q. [18:45]
mircea_popescu: so really i... lost ;/ [18:45]
danielpbarron: craft bot should auto move all loot to inventory as it goes [18:46]
danielpbarron: otherwise xmacro is better probably [18:46]
mircea_popescu: to bank ? [18:46]
danielpbarron: yeah storage i mean [18:46]
mircea_popescu: aha. [18:46]
danielpbarron: i only say "better probably" because I never have the issues you've been having with the bot [18:47]
mircea_popescu: in any case, 281 * 202 = 56762 ; 292 * 201 = 58692 [18:47]
mircea_popescu: so it ate some of the value. not all of it i guess. [18:47]
jurov: danielpbarron: then you would exhaust the slots quickly [18:47]
diana_coman: weird how somehow I never looted items while crafting [18:47]
mircea_popescu: nah it stacks same qual [18:47]
diana_coman: like never ever [18:47]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman not even ibs back in the day ? [18:48]
diana_coman: don't think so [18:48]
mircea_popescu: (ibs for a while looted no bps, only ibs) [18:48]
danielpbarron: it's a sortage thing [18:48]
mircea_popescu: no wai ?! [18:48]
diana_coman: aha, lol [18:48]
jurov: dunno why i have multiple stacks of pupl in inventory [18:48]
danielpbarron: and also happens with toolkit [18:48]
danielpbarron: so also a mcguyver thing [18:48]
danielpbarron: and i bet it also happens with gung-ho and all the others [18:49]
mircea_popescu: jurov remember the ibs ? lol [18:49]
jurov: heh [18:50]
diana_coman: what happens danielpbarron? [18:50]
mircea_popescu: is fucking sorry he didn't make more. ah how i'd like 1mn ibs right about now... [18:50]
mircea_popescu: anyway, ftr : i started this with 9k recipes, and 2k threads later i still have 9k recipes. so the bp replenish overcraft for cft seems to be 290ish / 200 [18:51]
jurov: depends on quality [18:52]
jurov: with the electron's grass, i got about 1000 recipes for 50 cft :D [18:53]
jurov: but even with such overcraft, never ever any skills :-/ [18:54]
mircea_popescu: that's what i say [18:54]
diana_coman: jurov I think the skill items are more valuable than that anyway [18:55]
jurov: more than 3k? any idea how much? [18:56]
jurov: i hope it's not like you can only ever overcraft lapidary whily lapidarizing [18:58]
jurov: (but i am not putting it past this crazy game design) [18:58]
mircea_popescu: from a few tens of k's to about 1mn [18:59]
mircea_popescu: base value. [18:59]
diana_coman: jurov, some base values: http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/10/22/the-unbearably-unknown-value-of-things-in-eulora/ [19:13]
lobbesbot: News from dianacoman: The Unbearably Unknown Value of Things in Eulora <http://www.dianacoman.com/2015/10/22/the-unbearably-unknown-value-of-things-in-eulora/> [19:13]
diana_coman: anyone else: kindly add to the list if you have more [19:14]
mircea_popescu: should prolly be in wiki hm ? [19:16]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman left a comment, but with link so moderation [19:22]
mircea_popescu: ahahaha skint [19:22]
mircea_popescu: anwyay, inspired by diana_coman's post, ima say that the thing with bps is - on high ticket items, say the worn screens, or even chetty sticks, the limiting effect of bp consumption is evident - we keep having to find noobs to click stuff to generate them. but on staples / low value items this is not so visible, mostly be [19:28]
mircea_popescu: because an immense glut of bps - which, at least in the case of the cft line, was sustained by electron's european imports. [19:28]
mircea_popescu: once that glut dissolves however, the economic balance will change. [19:28]
mircea_popescu: this is already evident in spots like say the congressional pulp. the fact is - this item per se has relatively little utility atm, but the recipe is a crucial ingredient in making maculature bundles, which are nowadays a crucial precursor of mining. [19:29]
mircea_popescu: consequently, as this drives an oversupply of the finished product - its price might even fall very close to base value. [19:30]
mircea_popescu: in other news, i got ppb bp from cft craft. pretty cool! [19:51]
mircea_popescu: diana_coman now if i tryt to comment it says "Not Acceptable! [21:01]
mircea_popescu: An appropriate representation of the requested resource could not be found on this server. This error was generated by Mod_Security." [21:01]
mircea_popescu: my comment was gonna be : [21:01]
mircea_popescu: Incidentally I have some slightly different values on some (and some significantly different values for a few, marked with *) : BN 71 ; RR 67 ; SR 79 ; AE 384 ; MD 1088* ; SM 157* ; WM 780 ; CP 1207 ; BMS 1589* ; SRS 454 (was 237 at some point but recipe changed along with FT) ; BBB 5355 ; AW 3850* (looks like a typo ?) ; OSC / TT - I never made one o.O ; ACG 7254* ; CWR/TNB also never made one. [21:01]
mircea_popescu: I can also add : BNG 11395 ; FT 5624 ; TM 23407 ; DL 23877 ; MC 15707 ; SO 62991 ; GT 16394 ; US 216655 ; WD 51417. [21:01]
danielpbarron: jurov> with the electron's grass, i got about 1000 recipes for 50 cft :D << you smile now because your storage is not yet full.. [21:51]
lobbesbot: derp, manual announce from Eulora: http://trilema.com/2015/the-sad-story-of-sacrifice/ [23:30]
lobbes: according to the folks at #limnoria, I guess wordpress cache can cause delays on RSS announce (I don't quite grok why yet)) [23:31]
lobbes: the perils of running things I don't understand. One of these days I ought to go the trinque route and just build a bot from the ground up. [23:32]
mircea_popescu: lobbes trilema rss is specifically set up to delay rss announcement by ~15 minutes [23:34]
mircea_popescu: but this is after that expired. [23:34]
mircea_popescu: if you manually look at the feed, it's there ; it was picked up in #b-a within a short timeframe [23:35]
lobbes: indeed, ~12 hour delay nowadays O_o [23:35]
mircea_popescu: you have it set to check hourly ? [23:35]
lobbes: I have it set to check every minute [23:35]
lobbes: my test blog announces in that timeframe [23:36]
mircea_popescu: well so it failed to see it like 50 times ? [23:36]
lobbes: diana_coman's blog seems to lag slightly, but not as much (at least today it seemed to announce quickly). bah I hate intermittent issues [23:37]
mircea_popescu: well anyway. [23:38]

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