| jurov: | wooo i found an sr ordinary...first since current exploring update | [09:44] |
| jurov: | and server stopped sending any "you were not successful" replies | [09:45] |
| jurov: | otherwise evertyhing works | [09:45] |
| jurov: | ..sometime during the botting, it started again | [09:50] |
| chetty: | thats odd, first report i have seen of that | [09:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | wd. | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | axes all worn jurov ? | [11:20] |
| jurov: | 3 left | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | a splendid | [11:21] |
| jurov: | mircea_popescu: all worn | [13:03] |
| jurov: | result: over 3k sr | [13:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | will be in town in 5. | [13:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | splendid! | [13:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | imhere | [13:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov ^ | [13:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov : almost done with slag, you around ? | [14:33] |
| jurov: | yes | [14:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | cool, be like 2 minutes. | [14:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | also, ill be wanting more flootsam. like 4k of it. | [14:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | trade me whenever. | [14:46] |
| jurov: | for what? i don't have more flotsam | [15:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | no i mean, if you wanna mine, get flotsam | [15:14] |
| jurov: | heh i misunderstood this again, seems grundin's char description is apt. | [15:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [15:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana : is it possible the bot sometimes forgets to turn or some shit ? | [15:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | i constantly find it out of permieter. | [15:58] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu i constantly find it out of permieter. <- it's not really possible it forgets to turn, but as I said, back steps != forward steps in eulora for some reason | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | hence it will gradually creep to one side basically | [17:09] |
| diana_coman: | if that's what you mean by "out of perimeter" | [17:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | turns out i had it do 220 steps where i thought it was 22. | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | well, that's a different story altogether :D | [17:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | :p | [17:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | didja get anything with those sticks ? | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | you mean as loot? | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | nothing interesting | [17:10] |
| diana_coman: | otherwise atm I am trying to finish the 6 lines in some vain hope that I'll find the st at least, but no luck so far | [17:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | i've been digging some more sb | [17:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | 6 lines ? | [17:11] |
| diana_coman: | the lines at x=6 and, respectively, y=6 | [17:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh | [17:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | you're doing the full map as it were ? | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | on those lines yes | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | well, as much as it is land that is | [17:12] |
| diana_coman: | or more precisely land on which I can stand, lol | [17:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah some stuff is underwater | [17:13] |
| diana_coman: | the thing is that the rarer resources such as dcg or sm are kind of hard to rule out for "it's only that there" | [17:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. | [17:14] |
| diana_coman: | as there will be some misses anyway | [17:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | im pretty sure there's a hole in the sb spot for instance with something rare in it. | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, the md | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | that is on the map already | [17:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | by the golf trhere ? ya ? | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | if it's not a different spot you mean | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | yeah | [17:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah ok | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | down there, on one side | [17:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | ya k | [17:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | btw mod6 you need anything ? selling anything ? | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | if you check on the map, there is a black little patch in the blue thing on the left | [17:15] |
| diana_coman: | mod6 you around? | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | I have some claims for you to build | [17:16] |
| diana_coman: | everything provided, lol | [17:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, working down 3k hoes is more work than anticipated. | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | what's annoying with this mapping thing is that I end up with a ton of shitty stuff (bird's nest, I HATE bird's nests!!!) | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | need help/ | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | ? | [17:17] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [17:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | you want noxious something or the other btw ? oh nm, i asked you before. | [17:18] |
| diana_coman: | finds lots of (ob)noxious somethings and others around, thank you :D | [17:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | i finally got 200 building. | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | ooo, sa cresti mare :D | [17:19] |
| diana_coman: | and gathering? | [17:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | less, 180, something. | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | tis hard. you got 200 farmin' yet ? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | oh, that's a lot of work there at gathering for sure | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | ha ha, you know what's harder than gathering? | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | bloody farming, lol | [17:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol. maybe i get 200 sortage this year. MAYBE | [17:20] |
| jurov: | lol and i wonder why both my output and luck slowly slide down despite running in full gear | [17:20] |
| diana_coman: | there doesn't seem to be any tinkering thing that increases it | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | unlike sortage | [17:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman course not. try cooking. | [17:21] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, but why would cooking increase it and bouq with WPL (which IS GROCERY) not? | [17:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm... actually come to think of it cooking gives tinkering...\ | [17:22] |
| diana_coman: | jurov I hear you there, I noticed the quality going down a bit too, it's prolly the quick mp rise in building | [17:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | i noticed it too. down to q 279 basics | [17:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | used to be 340 a coupla months ago | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | bwahahaha | [17:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | dropping like 2-3 points a day or some shit | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | but mircea_popescu re cooking and stuff | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | indeed from what I noticed all things under crafting | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | basically give you exp in maximum 2 things | [17:23] |
| diana_coman: | so it's practically on crafting with the craft-table | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | that has any chances of increasing some other skill such as sortage or farming | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | the thing is that I haven't really seen ANY craft-table bp involving farming stuff, lol | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | so ... | [17:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [17:24] |
| diana_coman: | most craft-table things use basic resources, so yeah, sortage is not only very useful for overcrafting otherwise, but also easy actually to increase | [17:25] |
| mod6: | < diana_coman> mod6 you around? << yeah was just admiring Mr. P.'s breakfast of champions and eulora notes. | [17:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | so how much you got it at so far ? | [17:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | or for that matter, got groceries over q200 yet ? | [17:26] |
| mod6: | < diana_coman> I have some claims for you to build << how many ya need me to build? | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | lolz, giving that the quality is going down, it's kind of racing to keep it the same really | [17:26] |
| diana_coman: | I get above 190 and then it goes down and here I go again | [17:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | also, psa for all new miners : i definitely want some cdg. | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | mod6 I have now with me 2 dungbeetles things that should be rich | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | and then I can go and dig some cdg and you just follow and build them | [17:27] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I would prefer by far sortage atm of all the skills :)))) | [17:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [17:28] |
| mod6: | i've got about an hour. | [17:28] |
| mod6: | i'll join in here in a sec. | [17:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | we gotta get this sacrifice thing unhinged this is ridoinculous | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | I agree; any suggestions? | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | cool mod6! | [17:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | i guess im auctioning another set | [17:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | what else ? | [17:29] |
| mod6: | if you could just make me a bridle for my character, then you can just tow him around lol | [17:29] |
| diana_coman: | ha, that really sounds more like a new feature for the bot than the trading thing | [17:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [17:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | "follow x" ? | [17:30] |
| diana_coman: | probably more like "follow x and build his/her claims" | [17:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | interesting idea. | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | meanwhile I basically had to update the mining bot with some resilience to shitty connection/lags | [17:31] |
| diana_coman: | not sure why but it seems to be some issue only with the eulora connection and apparently only on this side of the pond | [17:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | i never had a problem | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | sometimes it goes nuts and basically the claim/enum etc come in only after 1 minute or so | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | well yes, you are not in Europe, lol | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | are you? | [17:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | nope | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | as I said: only on this side of the pond | [17:32] |
| diana_coman: | so maybe jurov might have it at some point too | [17:33] |
| mod6: | ok where you at? old town, or new town? :] | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | the same with that thing when I connect, it reports the server up and then it fails to connect | [17:33] |
| diana_coman: | mod6 come to the dungbeetle spot and I'll come in a minute too | [17:33] |
| mod6: | coo | [17:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 you got any stuff in storage you're selling ? | [17:37] |
| mod6: | ah, maybe? I've got some stuff stashed in there. | [17:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, i guess we do a trade once you're back from sucking down diana's grass sticks. | [17:41] |
| mod6: | haha, ok. | [17:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | o look at that, 6 people on hehe | [17:42] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, and I *really* need to add to the bot a check for claim position/ownership | [17:43] |
| mod6: | mircea_popescu: you wanna trade quick? otherwise, can be on a bit later. | [18:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | later | [18:29] |
| mod6: | ok cool. sounds good. i'll check back later tonight. salud! | [18:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman i think i just ran into the issue you describe. symptoms : invetory full of keys, stuff not picked up from claims. | [18:30] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, it might be because I was around there and it probably got the claims messed up | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | it clearly needs to check for ownership/guarding of the claim ideally | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | or at least for proximity I suppose | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | I'll have to look into that as it's quite a pain (the reason I did not do it earlier) | [18:31] |
| diana_coman: | if it fails to pick up the stuff, it will not be able to get rid of the keys either, so the thing with full inventory kind of follows | [18:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | but what's arouind ? you weren't next to me were you | [18:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | as a matter of principle, it should drop ALL tiny keys it has not just the one it just got | [18:37] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | you don't seem to know how it works, do you | [18:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | i have nfi | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | it's not about "next to you" | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | it's enough that I am basically in sight | [18:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | is it ? | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | because as I mine | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | I drop sticks | [18:40] |
| diana_coman: | and your client gets the same message for those too | [18:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | o shit | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | so if the bot doesn't check that they are your sticks rather than mine | [18:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah, but it gets them prefixed with your name | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | where? | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | oh, you mean the system messages | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | no, I can't use those | [18:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. you meant not those ? | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | they are useless | [18:41] |
| diana_coman: | because I need some id | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | to be able to open them afterwards | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | otherwise.... | [18:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | ya | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | if I start randomly opening some closest stick or whatever, can you imagine? | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | so no, I use the persistent object messages or some such | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | which however don't care that it's my stick or yours | [18:42] |
| diana_coman: | the only way I can think of to tell is to check ideally who is guarding it | [18:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | and those have no ownership iirc because i didn't want peoiple to be able to tell who owns a stick lest they gang on him | [18:43] |
| diana_coman: | or otherwise at least the position/proximity | [18:43] |
| diana_coman: | aha | [18:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | but guarding might work. | [18:43] |
| diana_coman: | well, I don't yet know the details of how I can do that exactly | [18:43] |
| diana_coman: | unless it's in some field of that message though not sure, I'll have to dig into it again | [18:44] |
| diana_coman: | re "the matter of principle" - I think a saner principle is that the bot takes care of the things it started as it were | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | so no, it won't do some random cleaning for you at least unless you specifically asked it to do that | [18:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | well sure, but then it gotta keep a list of keys it got and still holds on to ? | [18:46] |
| diana_coman: | no, why? | [18:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | "why do you have this tiny key." "because i didn't take care of a thing i started" | [18:47] |
| jurov: | shaped slags ready | [18:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | will be in town in 1 minute jurov | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | trouble is there that I was (kind of still am) reluctant to brute force its way out of failures basically | [18:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | why ? | [18:47] |
| diana_coman: | because the reasons for failure can be so diverse.... | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | I mean: it could just drop the key if something failed, sure | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | well sure. but no need to play with the system. play against the system. | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | the bot's not here to represent "the government". i hired it, i want it to fucking represent ME. | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, what do you mean? | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | fuck the system. | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | true | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | but that was my point | [18:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | how so ? | [18:48] |
| diana_coman: | are you sure you want it to drop any key it got as part of a cycle that failed somewhere? | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | I wasn't exactly keen on that idea, lol | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | if it has a key that's a key of a type it's not supposed to have, it prolly should drop it | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | if it has a key that locked nothing, idem. | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | etc | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [18:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | when i say 500 25 1 7, that 1 should mean something. | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | there you are adding to it about 5 layers of complexity | [18:49] |
| diana_coman: | just for the sake of this error | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | or failure | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | i am famous for this. but it's an in principle discussion. | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | well, it's not really | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | in principle, yeah, sure | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | in practice here it's not clear it's worth it | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's all im sayin'. | [18:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | so don't do it. | [18:50] |
| diana_coman: | it does: it means leave the key in the claim | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | as it says it will do | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | now if the claim is not there/not found... | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | well i got some extra keys :D | [18:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha... | [18:51] |
| diana_coman: | should it change all of a sudden into "leave the key in the field"? | [18:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov trading ? | [18:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | nah | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | fwiw it did not say it meant "no keys in my inventory" | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | just "will leave keys in claim" | [18:52] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [18:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | well yeah | [18:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | the failure mode was strange tho, as the inv was full but it wasn't picking up the grass from claims | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | that aside, I will probably end up adding to it on the side of resilience | [18:53] |
| diana_coman: | but don't expect it to be absolutely foolproof basically | [18:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | well surely not. | [18:54] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, it looks strange though to me it makes perfect sense | [18:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | how did it find the claims to build them, if it didn't then find the claims to dump in them ? | [18:55] |
| diana_coman: | btw, the inventory full trouble will also happen if it runs out of bits of nothing/threads | [18:55] |
| diana_coman: | there is the funny thing | [18:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov you left your table | [18:55] |
| diana_coman: | and one possible way to patch this, but a kind of special case way only | [18:56] |
| jurov: | a | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | it found the claim correctly at start, but then meanwhile another message came and overwrote that for the last stage | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | it could lock the messages out, sure | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | and then you'll get it failing when some messages are delayed | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | basically | [18:56] |
| diana_coman: | basically (that was the first approach I took) | [18:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah | [18:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | could try both... | [18:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | if one fails | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | well, it would need to try...1000 | [18:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | it could lock it out ONLY during when it's working | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | it can be more than 2 | [18:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, "i don't care about new claims while i work a claim" | [18:59] |
| diana_coman: | in principle that was what it was doing initially | [19:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | too stateful ? | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | there were some cases (annoyingly frequent for some reason) in which it basically ended up losing the messages it needed | [19:00] |
| diana_coman: | that's why I'm not so keen on ignoring messages - more of a reasonable filter on them I think is likely to be useful | [19:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [19:02] |
| diana_coman: | btw as a side thing and re the no-training issue with the craft bot: there is one case in which it will not train even if not overweight | [19:03] |
| diana_coman: | if you rank in two or more skills at the same time | [19:03] |
| diana_coman: | it will train at most one | [19:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | there's a weird issue with the training where it doesn't train cooking period, but im still chasing it. | [19:04] |
| diana_coman: | you mean just cooking? you hadn't ranked up in tinkering too ? | [19:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | do you have any idea what it takes for me to rank tink ? | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | one thing to check I guess would be whether it tried at least as otherwise it would be that it just somehow missed the message altogether (there it uses the system message indeed) | [19:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | nothing short of latoya jackson flapping her tits around | [19:05] |
| diana_coman: | lol, true, it could still happen though :p | [19:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | and it DIDNT because it moved the stuff in and back out | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | oh | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | so then, available options: | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | 1. too fast | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | (I seriously incline towards that) | [19:06] |
| diana_coman: | as I think on occasion I had that problem, although it's hard to notice, of course | [19:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | in unrelated news, the jurov-mp bilateral trade is a thing of wonder. just gave me 60 shaped slags q 80, i paid them at 1.4, ie 175\% - take that diana!!1 - and so on and so forth. | [19:07] |
| diana_coman: | 2. too far away from the trainer | [19:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | most favoured trading partner clause! | [19:07] |
| diana_coman: | what's there to take? lol | [19:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman this is what i was studying, could be too far from trainer just a shade | [19:07] |
| diana_coman: | re jurov I guess it's a matter of whether he wants to make money or exp or more precisely what balance between the two | [19:08] |
| diana_coman: | as basically it's great for him to sell to you | [19:08] |
| diana_coman: | but not that great to also buy the ingredients from you | [19:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | why not ? | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | he could probably get both decent xp AND some more money | [19:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | how ? | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | if he bought the ingredients from me and then sold the output to you | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | or whatever someone else in between I meant | [19:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | well, what do you charge ? 25\% ? | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | yeah | [19:09] |
| diana_coman: | what, you charge him less? | [19:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | so he'd make exactly the same xp | [19:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, 1.250 mn spent gets him the same xp worth either way. | [19:10] |
| diana_coman: | yes, but how much of that does he get back? | [19:10] |
| diana_coman: | this is what I meant | [19:10] |
| diana_coman: | how much of that money I mean, lol | [19:10] |
| diana_coman: | when he sells whatever it is he makes | [19:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | well depends. with me he has higher overcraft, with you he'd have larger item count | [19:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | so he can adjust the bp/item crafdted output ratio in this way | [19:11] |
| diana_coman: | true, I guess it depends on how much one hedges on the loot | [19:11] |
| diana_coman: | yes, that | [19:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | but we don't have a good pricing handl;e on bps. | [19:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | if given the choice, would you rather have 100k worth of shaped slag or 100k worth of looted bps ? | [19:11] |
| diana_coman: | well, and higher overcraft doesn't directly /necessarily translate into more loot as it were, that's not that clear either | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | it depends on what, of course | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | plus after some point.... | [19:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol. | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | I still have tons of cft bps | [19:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | bout as clear as mud. | [19:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | i burned so many... | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | so defo 100k worth of shaped slag, lol | [19:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | because i need the lft now | [19:12] |
| diana_coman: | lft? | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | or you mean lbn, lol | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | or ltf | [19:13] |
| diana_coman: | :))) | [19:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | ya | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | lbn | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | aha, makes sense | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | and you know, if ima do a cliock on table, i wanna do at least q 4k bundles, because otherwise somehow feels like a waste\ | [19:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | dunno exactly why | [19:14] |
| diana_coman: | that's a bit my problem with lbn - I feel there are a bit too many bps in the "scarce" category | [19:15] |
| diana_coman: | mainly because I don't do cooking I suppose | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | but a big thing is : when i loot bps, i loot them q 200. when he loots bps, he loots them q 80. | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | so he gets 2.5 more than me, by count | [19:15] |
| diana_coman: | so the flour and toothpaste ones etc | [19:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | are bps valuable by count or by bp (base price) | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | so I'd say he gets quickly swamped by them, lol | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | well, same as with resources really | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | why would it be different? | [19:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | is it ? | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | when you want them for overcrafting, it's the q that counts | [19:16] |
| diana_coman: | when you want them for undercrafting, it's the number | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | well for instance : it looks like soon enough nobody will be able to make grass high q enough for me to loot bps when making cft\ | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is a change of IMMENSE importance | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'll run out of bps. | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | tehn what ? | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | then you buy them | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | once the cft engine runs at -bp count, things change. | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | from whom. | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | I have tons, jurov has tons | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | noobs will have tons | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | and same will be true of slag, and of other such staples | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | right. | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | so they are worth BY COUNT\ | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | (if they do anything that is) | [19:17] |
| diana_coman: | for you | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | i don't care what the q is on them, gimme 1 | [19:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | well im the one buyer so far, in this modelling | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | well, a modelling with only one buyer .... | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | so what are we modelling here? | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | your buying decisions? | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | sure, for you they are worth by count | [19:18] |
| diana_coman: | and nothing more | [19:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i am the one with an incentive to buy, because people wanna get the best thread possible because buildsing is so hard to level | [19:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | you dispute this is the sane model ? | [19:19] |
| diana_coman: | mhm | [19:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | but why ? who else runs a cft shop with net negative bp count and why ? | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | I dispute that it is much of a model in that the situation is very specific to this huge lack of people atm | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | how did that enter into it ? | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | what? | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | there's going to be someone (even if a group of people) at the top q of cft | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | THOSE PEOPLE will likely run negative bp count | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | they will buy | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | by count. | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, but they are not 1 person | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | makes no difference, | [19:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | they still buy by couint, not by bv | [19:20] |
| diana_coman: | so as I said earlier: when you undercraft, you value them by count | [19:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | right | [19:21] |
| diana_coman: | when you overcraft you value them by q | [19:21] |
| diana_coman: | what's different ? | [19:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | but this is not evenly distributed | [19:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | some fields are mostly undercrafted. | [19:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | like cft. | [19:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | some fields mostly overcrafted. | [19:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | these considerations are why im kinda amazed electron had any grass leftover whatsoever. | [19:21] |
| diana_coman: | well, it kind of replenished it anyway, lol | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | same with hoes really, after I specifically bought ALL of them | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | all of a sudden, some time later, he got some more from somewher | [19:22] |
| diana_coman: | somewhere | [19:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah buit a few | [19:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | whereas when i wiped him, electron had ~24 stacks of the original 30 | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | I guess it was just perceived as kind of ..ahem, expensive still? | [19:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | mebbe. | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | and yes, it's not evenly distributed | [19:23] |
| diana_coman: | I am not sure though that this remains the same if you have enough people | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | that's what I was on about earlier | [19:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, moral being that i got a few more sb here which ima craft for you, after which i think ima do all grass till it goes under 250 or something | [19:24] |
| diana_coman: | cft is mostly undercrafted now you say | [19:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman obviously it will ebb and flow with player population as well. | [19:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | the pricing is anything but straightforward | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | that for sure, lol | [19:25] |
| diana_coman: | I'll buy all ppb you have, sure | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | I guess it's also a matter of what bps are there | [19:26] |
| diana_coman: | as in: if they require cft and are used in undercraft | [19:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | if who requires cft | [19:27] |
| diana_coman: | there might be a surge of overcrafting cft by noobs producing the low q cft for that undercrafting etc | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah, well for instance cft is used to make all the rope | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | ya | [19:27] |
| diana_coman: | apparently not enough rope | [19:27] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, I'd say atm there is way more mining going on, at least in part due to bot in any case | [19:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | o yes, bot increased mining like 3x ? | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | well, you did hardly any mining before, did you? | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | I have been bot-mining for quite a while anyway | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | but absolutely more after I got the bot to work | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | that's why I made it! | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [19:28] |
| diana_coman: | so overall I still think the issue is basically that low quality stuff gets valued by number | [19:29] |
| diana_coman: | high quality stuff gets to actually be counted by value as it were | [19:30] |
| diana_coman: | now, where's the cut in that is a different story | [19:30] |
| diana_coman: | after all, I think it's not that new a thing anyway, is it? | [19:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah no, i did a lot of mining, originally | [19:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | but then went into a crafting spell, and whoops you all ran past me. | [19:30] |
| diana_coman: | well, before the point when I got fed up with it, yeah, sure, but still less than I do now | [19:31] |
| diana_coman: | because I was sleeping! | [19:31] |
| diana_coman: | now I leave the bot on anyway, lolz | [19:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | you think you mine more than me atm ? | [19:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | i guess it's possibru... you got all the sticks huh | [19:31] |
| diana_coman: | I kind of leave it on all the time, though it might be that you use higher q tools, don't know | [19:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | i am mostly wearing down basic hoes atm. | [19:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | what do you do, like 2-3k cft a day ? | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | pretty much, yeah, but I left it on some nights bare-handed | [19:32] |
| diana_coman: | so I guess it's there you get ahead | [19:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah i guess it's about same. i might even be under 2k on days when i do a lot of crafting | [19:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | also, i often leave it overnight doing imp crafts. so there is that. | [19:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | but in the end... it's still for mining. so who knows. | [19:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | actually... looking through notes, yeah, mostly i do 70-80-100 cruddy hoes/day, then leave it to make 20-30 imp hoes overnight. | [19:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | that's the structure. | [19:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | won't last tho, only got fuel for a coupla months of this. | [19:34] |
| diana_coman: | I certainly destroyed more than 100 hoes today, lol | [19:34] |
| diana_coman: | well, one might also get other things to do in one month, one might hope, lolz | [19:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | :p | [19:40] |
| mod6: | Hi, if you're auto-crafting, let's just trade tomorrow. | [22:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | im here | [22:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | be done crafting in ~1 minute. | [22:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | mod6 ? | [22:05] |
| mod6: | sorry, my lappy was tapped out of ram, had to hard power it off. | [22:16] |
| mod6: | in eulora now. | [22:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | and now ? | [22:33] |
| mod6: | im still suprised the Crumbly Rocks haven't been found yet? or have they?? | [22:48] |
| mod6: | diana_coman: I'll meet you in game tomorrow, will pay up. | [22:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | not afail | [22:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | so should i cook a further batch of ft ? anyone want it ? diana_coman ? danielpbarron ? | [22:58] |
| mod6: | what's ft? | [22:59] |
| danielpbarron: | no chef | [22:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | flinty toothpaste. | [23:02] |
| mod6: | ahh | [23:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | but apparently no demand so it can wait a little. | [23:02] |
| danielpbarron: | ah i just realized that's used to make chetty sticks isn't it? | [23:02] |
| danielpbarron: | i would buy | [23:03] |
| danielpbarron: | actually i should try to make a stick first and see if it's even usable | [23:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | if your mcguyver q is over 100 the stick is usable. | [23:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | and if you make a large enough batch, you can actually extract the whole q, just keep mixing them. | [23:04] |
| danielpbarron: | ah, mine is | [23:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, a batch is 60, good for 60 sticks, needs 180 ppb = 14k SB to use. | [23:05] |
| danielpbarron: | that's not a problem; the toolkits are | [23:06] |
| danielpbarron: | and to a lesser extent, the polished stones | [23:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | pps you'll prolly have to mine, but i can sell ya a coupla toolkits. | [23:07] |
| danielpbarron: | probably too much work for me; i'd really rather buy the finished sticks from whoever | [23:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman is making some afaik | [23:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | but prolly no ppb. | [23:11] |
| danielpbarron: | right now is the busiest time of year for me | [23:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | so do you mostly botmine or what ? | [23:12] |
| danielpbarron: | mostly my own barehanded gathering macro | [23:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah | [23:12] |
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