| diana_coman: | morning | [02:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | heya. | [02:08] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu do you have something for me? | [02:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. lemme get in. | [02:16] |
| diana_coman: | another data point, on grass: 70\% success rate (any claim found), 1:14 ratio small:tiny, cost 72/cdg at 159q (2*10000/275) ; based on a run of 2 tools (cruddy hoe) meaning 138 /explore, 275CDG total output from 10 small claims and 88 tiny | [02:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | 72/cdg at 159 sounds like a net profit. | [02:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think it should be ~95 ea at merchant. | [02:32] |
| diana_coman: | I am sure that basic ones are profitable to mine | [02:32] |
| diana_coman: | it's just the rare ones that are not atm or possibly some of them (bbb from what I see seems for instance ok though I have yet to properly run the numbers) | [02:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | tbh my grass success rate was 99-100\% | [02:33] |
| diana_coman: | that rate is a bit weird tbh as it might just be caused by a small blind spot that needs investigation | [02:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | seems likeliest. | [02:34] |
| diana_coman: | but well, that's what I got so far, I reported it as it is | [02:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | and yeah, blind spots like that are often a rare. | [02:34] |
| diana_coman: | I am still collecting blind spots as it were, haven't gotten around to investigate all of them properly | [02:34] |
| diana_coman: | but will certainly do | [02:34] |
| diana_coman: | it's actually cool how they stand out in the logs | [02:37] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu the new package for auction does not contain the relevant equipment from what I see - any specific reason for that? | [03:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | that... there isn't one ? | [03:04] |
| diana_coman: | oh, in the first auction "equipment" referred to the altart? | [03:05] |
| diana_coman: | altar | [03:05] |
| diana_coman: | One instance of the relevant equipment, normal quality (base value, >374k). | [03:05] |
| diana_coman: | I guess so, nvm | [03:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [03:06] |
| diana_coman: | I can confirm for the previous data point on grass: the adjusted success ratio is actually 99-100\% since it was indeed a blind spot, namely TPT | [03:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [03:09] |
| diana_coman: | and this morning got already 650 grass basically because of 1 small that gave about 600 | [03:30] |
| diana_coman: | I would personally consider this an outlier though, since that's not the norm, though one could calculate how often "outlier" ie more serious loot actually happen, maybe | [03:31] |
| chetty: | morning | [03:32] |
| diana_coman: | morning chetty | [03:34] |
| chetty: | wow you guys been busy | [03:35] |
| diana_coman: | actually swamped with work really, so yeah, really busy :) | [03:35] |
| diana_coman: | and for all those interested: I've found lotus harlots, so the price on those goes down | [04:04] |
| diana_coman: | will have a larger pack for Sunday | [04:05] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu I have 1k of grass and 2 spent adzes, do you have thread? | [04:07] |
| diana_coman: | ouch, I was using a stick, lol | [04:14] |
| diana_coman: | chetty or mircea_popescu? down | [04:16] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, there is something wrong with small lotus harlot markers | [04:39] |
| diana_coman: | for one thing the scroll says only the part from the bundle | [04:39] |
| diana_coman: | and for the other thing I've put 7 threads in the marker and the scroll on the brain | [04:40] |
| diana_coman: | and when I tried to combine | [04:40] |
| diana_coman: | I got...another scroll | [04:40] |
| diana_coman: | and an error that "you don't know what to do with small lotus harlots enum" | [04:40] |
| diana_coman: | chetty or mircea_popescu ^ | [04:41] |
| chetty: | oi | [04:48] |
| chetty: | thats definitely a database issue, best leave off mining those for a while | [04:49] |
| Birdman: | http://pastebin.com/rpgAMj2F | [09:39] |
| lobbesbot: | Supplication of Leather: 17 Tiny WPL enumerations; 3 Small WPL enumerations Sup - Pastebin.com (at pastebin.com) | [09:39] |
| Birdman: | improved tools give more exp per use right? | [10:08] |
| danielpbarron: | ya | [10:26] |
| danielpbarron: | crashed | [12:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | back. | [12:54] |
| diana_coman: | is the db problem on lotus harlots fixed? | [13:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | i just fixed it. try again with only 1 thread see if you actually get a bundle. | [13:01] |
| diana_coman: | no, I have 3 small enums now... | [13:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol. | [13:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok, it'll be fixed after next crash. | [13:05] |
| danielpbarron: | down again | [13:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol there we go. wtf already!11 | [13:06] |
| jurov: | maybe some probm with my mining | [13:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | like what ? | [13:07] |
| jurov: | crashed right as it sent /use command | [13:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, back up | [13:08] |
| jurov: | server seems to handle it diferently, getting messages in different order, had to fix my code | [13:09] |
| jurov: | as cmpared to yesterday | [13:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | by "just when" do you mean the dialog popped ? | [13:10] |
| jurov: | me? alli know last msg from server was "you started working" | [13:11] |
| jurov: | then it was suposed to send MSG_IDLE for progressbar, did not | [13:11] |
| jurov: | after restart it mines ok | [13:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | <jurov> crashed right as it sent < | [13:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman harlots work nao ? | [13:13] |
| jurov: | o i mean as the bot sent /use | [13:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | but the "JUST AS" is formed by looking at when the dialogue box pops ? | [13:15] |
| jurov: | what dialogue box? | [13:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | what two events are you reporting to be simultaneous ? | [13:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | one is you sending the /use command. what is the other. | [13:15] |
| jurov: | the crash | [13:15] |
| jurov: | let me redo it: | [13:15] |
| jurov: | 1. client sent /use | [13:16] |
| jurov: | 2. server replied "you started working" | [13:16] |
| jurov: | 3. nothing more (crash) | [13:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | it also has a dialogue box it pops sayin "couldn't connect ot server" and you get to press Ok | [13:16] |
| jurov: | oh that was later after 5 seconds | [13:16] |
| jurov: | when 5 pings fail | [13:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | what were you expecting at 3, "peace" ? | [13:17] |
| jurov: | no i have messages logging , so i expected more of them. like, MSG_IDLE | [13:17] |
| jurov: | (server asks client to draw the progressbar) | [13:17] |
| jurov: | none came | [13:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha cool | [13:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | nice instrumentation. | [13:18] |
| jurov: | it's just matter of adding to config file | [13:19] |
| jurov: | PlaneShift.Log.Messages = true | [13:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, if im to venture a guess in fields unknown, the problem's the original code's equally bad throughout, mining's as bad as crafting in the same way for the same reasons. hopefully chetty'll be able to smash it fast now that we have the experience of debugging crafting. | [13:19] |
| jurov: | anyone knows where bitterbeans are? i have noted around 30,20 but nothing comes up there | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | seems to work, but essentially it made me lose tons, wonderful | [13:24] |
| diana_coman: | (it ignored my taking the bundle out as a way of interrupting it | [13:25] |
| danielpbarron: | down | [13:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | ouch. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | hence it built it with 1 thread only | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | awwww, nooo | [13:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | mk well, i'll let chetty bring it back up. this obviously requires patching. | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | jurov, there are plenty of bbb | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | look on the map | [13:25] |
| diana_coman: | mod's maps | [13:25] |
| jurov: | now i see | [13:26] |
| danielpbarron: | why are you gathering beans? | [13:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | cuz he doesn';t like to interoperate with others and so he doesn't know he could make a killing as a noob miner on pretty much anything but. | [13:27] |
| danielpbarron: | gather grass for me | [13:27] |
| mircea_popescu: | or sb or moss or wm or fruit or etc. | [13:27] |
| danielpbarron: | i'm beginning to suspect that mining smalls with 7 threads is not sustainable for all players | [13:28] |
| jurov: | wanted a few for a experiment | [13:28] |
| mircea_popescu: | it does give xp... | [13:28] |
| danielpbarron: | yes it is for the exp | [13:28] |
| danielpbarron: | i think that most smalls must be mined with 1 thread, and players who are trying to rank up building will have to pay a premium to be able to spend up to 7 threads per small | [13:29] |
| danielpbarron: | not necessarily 1 | [13:29] |
| danielpbarron: | it's nice that it's a spectrum | [13:29] |
| danielpbarron: | that's until remarkables become a regular thing | [13:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | interesting theory, but needs datas. | [13:29] |
| jurov: | danielpbarron: you think output from the small does not depend on input? | [13:30] |
| danielpbarron: | nope | [13:30] |
| danielpbarron: | maybe the loot | [13:30] |
| danielpbarron: | and by that i mean items that show up in the inventory directly, and not first in the container | [13:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | what'd it mean for remarkables to be regular ? seems to me they're pretty expensive. maybe someone would be willing to spend the millions one takes, but not sure how regular that'd be. | [13:32] |
| danielpbarron: | in the future when Eulorian economy is thousands of bitcoin | [13:32] |
| diana_coman: | danielpbarron have data for that? | [13:32] |
| diana_coman: | jurov I'm selling bbb if you need them | [13:33] |
| danielpbarron: | i don't keep track, but i know that i'm almost out of threads that i made from my own grass gathering | [13:33] |
| danielpbarron: | and i gather mostly grass | [13:33] |
| diana_coman: | otherwise you are probably better off buying claims if you really want to mine them yourself though not sure about the point to it | [13:33] |
| danielpbarron: | yes i want to buy claims | [13:33] |
| diana_coman: | so what, danielpbarron? | [13:33] |
| danielpbarron: | sell me your claims | [13:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron oh, that part is because you make high q grass. | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | the ordinaries for basic resources will go on auction | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | is it those you want or others? | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | so basically, you take say 100 value of thread, get out say 110 value of grass, of which 80 is plain part of grass and 30 is overcraft part of grass. | [13:34] |
| danielpbarron: | i want all of them | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | you turn around and make the 80 into 80 value of thread, and the 30 into 30 value of recipes. | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | unless you trade the 30 to someone to replenish your thread | [13:34] |
| diana_coman: | lol, are you aiming for 200 building first? | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | you're now running a net deficit ON THAT LINE | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | even if not overall. | [13:35] |
| danielpbarron: | should i not? | [13:35] |
| danielpbarron: | is one of you that close? | [13:35] |
| danielpbarron: | although i'd probably still want to beat you to 400 | [13:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | 200 building is a long way away | [13:36] |
| diana_coman: | danielpbarron why not? I did not mean you "shouldn't" | [13:38] |
| diana_coman: | there is no "shouldn't" anyway | [13:39] |
| diana_coman: | I was just curious as to why the sudden interest in *all* claims, that's all | [13:39] |
| diana_coman: | I guess the other thing is that you got something from the altar and you are trying to get it now ahead, fine too | [13:40] |
| danielpbarron: | because building rank yes | [13:40] |
| danielpbarron: | ordinary is a lot of exp in a short time period | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | sure, no problem with me | [13:41] |
| diana_coman: | brb | [13:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah it feels like maybe 2x the smalls, on a per/time basis | [13:41] |
| danielpbarron: | jurov, gather grass for me in exchange for higher quality threads. I'll give you 5 threads for every 24 grass that you bring to me | [14:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | you don't even know his mining q ? | [14:01] |
| danielpbarron: | i assume it's less than 100 | [14:02] |
| danielpbarron: | if higher then don't take that deal | [14:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | lemme see if i can write this function | [14:03] |
| danielpbarron: | i don't know what grass or threads should be worth, but regardless it should be profitable for someone who gets less than 100 quality results from building | [14:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | jurov : i will give you (count * (qual + (203-qual)/2)/100)/456.75 threads of q 203 for grass :D | [14:05] |
| chetty: | ok, its back up, I guess I am gonna watch and see if I can figure out what you guys are up to | [14:05] |
| danielpbarron: | i would prefer all grass go to mp and then i just buy the 200+ thread | [14:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | wait no | [14:05] |
| danielpbarron: | but there needs to be a lot of grass gathering for him to have a surplus he can sell | [14:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | (count * (qual + (203-qual)/2)/100)/7.6125 threads of q 203 for grass :D | [14:06] |
| danielpbarron: | and even then i'll have to make some of it because there's a lot of other stuff to craft and limited time to do it | [14:06] |
| chetty: | well if you guys quit crashing it so much I'll log on and gather grass :P | [14:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | so at q 50 that comes to 0.166174056 per grass and at q 100 that comes to 0.199014778 per grass | [14:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [14:07] |
| danielpbarron: | copper? | [14:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | no, threads q 203 | [14:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | check it out, i have a formula! | [14:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | at grass q3 it's 0.135303777 per grass. | [14:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | win | [14:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | yay! | [14:08] |
| jurov: | uh oh | [14:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | expects negotiations on eulora crafting will end up in discussing that 7.6125 factor, because hey, eulora's too special to use simple \% calculations like all the games that are too special to use straight values. | [14:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | no siree bob, we need parametrized functions over here. | [14:11] |
| jurov: | my mining q oscillates around 100 | [14:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | so then you'd get one high thread for 5 grasses. | [14:11] |
| jurov: | i put 100 and 100 to your formula and 0.3316913 came out :) | [14:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | uh ? | [14:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | <mircea_popescu> ;;calc ((100 + (203-100)/2)/100)/7.6125 | [14:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | <gribble> 0.199014778325 | [14:14] |
| jurov: | o you fixed it | [14:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | like how ? | [14:16] |
| jurov: | s/456.75/7.6125 | [14:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh right, that was broken above yes. | [14:17] |
| jurov: | nm i'm a complete derp recently... due to the heatwave, and anti allergy pill on top if it | [14:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm very excited because this is actually a phenomenal help / step forward in making sense of this economy. | [14:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | finally i know how to price shit in relative terms. | [14:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | "what's your mpfactor for grass to thread ?" "7.72" "shit man, can't you do 7.5 ?!" | [14:19] |
| danielpbarron: | down | [14:40] |
| danielpbarron: | jurov, do that deal with mp and i'll buy the resulting threads | [14:42] |
| jurov: | danielpbarron: it would not be so many, my bot still requires manual moving | [14:42] |
| jurov: | and i play mostly recreationally | [14:43] |
| jurov: | hi foxy | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, is it still down? | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | hi jurov | [14:44] |
| jurov: | i crashed it | [14:44] |
| jurov: | and yes i buy these beans.. 20 or so | [14:44] |
| diana_coman: | sure, do you want high q (around 150+) or is 100 fine? | [14:45] |
| jurov: | 100 i sfine | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | (I need to get in game and see exactly what q) | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | ok, np | [14:45] |
| jurov: | actually, would try using highest q | [14:45] |
| diana_coman: | fine with me too | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | but well, I still need to get back in game, lol | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | I might even still find my lotus harlots there, sigh | [14:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | back | [14:46] |
| jurov: | and how comes your mining bot has no such adverse effects? | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | I didn't get to grab them before the crash | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's a lazy bot | [14:46] |
| jurov: | any idea? | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | does something and then wait | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | it's basically delayed on purpose | [14:46] |
| jurov: | as in, clock time? | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | a kind of idiot-on-purpose-bot | [14:46] |
| diana_coman: | a timer, yes | [14:46] |
| phf: | for those interested in the progress of eulora on mac, i had it working on my machine for a while now, but spent the last two weeks trying to get it to build on other people's (thanks, ben_vulpes, gernika!). since i couldn't figure out how to pack a cs application into a single, mac-friendly folder, the process instead relies on homebrew. eventually a user should be able to execute . right now the comman | [14:47] |
| phf: | ds work, but only result in a consistent build on a 10.9 version of mac os x. since i don't have a 10.10 i rely on external help to figure out what's going on. so far it's been a push/pull between identifying an issue, getting ben_vulpes or gernika to do another cs build, new issue comes up, fix it, repeat. i will try for a few more iterations of that, and then bite a bullet and install 10.10 on a my machine. so far the exercise has convinced me that i | [14:47] |
| phf: | should move to linux. | [14:47] |
| danielpbarron: | are those harlots for sale yet? | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | it just schedules itself to be called after x milliseconds | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | and then it checks what it can do (if anything) | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | and so on | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | danielpbarron they will be if only I actually get to get them, since earlier I couldn't build the claims... | [14:47] |
| diana_coman: | my current price for bbb at 158q is 360 each | [14:54] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu I have another 1.3k grass, do you have thread? | [14:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | phf well that's a win. | [14:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman no, because i couldn't get a nice smooth run yet. | [14:56] |
| diana_coman: | oh, sucks | [14:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | but suppose you just sell me the grass for convenience, and i'll keep you a bunch of threads once done ? | [14:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | or are you plainly out ? | [14:57] |
| diana_coman: | sure, I don't mind selling that grass | [14:57] |
| diana_coman: | I am quite out (45 threads, lol) | [14:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | i have some q144 thread which is not prime for crafting with, you want that ? | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | mhm, neah, I can make that myself now and I still have some higher q grass for that | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | if needs must | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | sorta midway, not great for mining (too low) not great for crafting (too high, or too low) | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | kk | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | im doing a run of 500 tacks now, after which i;ll do the grass. | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | oh, I have 1 samovar too if you want it | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | but I will want toothpaste | [14:58] |
| diana_coman: | ok? | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | sure. but make the lot. | [14:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | i much prefer dealing lots. | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | I will, but I need more toolkits for that too | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | well, 10 samovars, not more, lol | [14:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | i can sell you a 100k one, so. enxt we're in game. | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | don't have the ingredients for more | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | ok, sounds good | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | I have a few other things to rank up a bit more and then will do the samovar full run | [14:59] |
| diana_coman: | oh my | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | anyone selling high q bits of nothing? | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [15:02] |
| jurov: | q 143 is ok? | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | well, it's ok | [15:02] |
| diana_coman: | need to shread moar I suppose | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | this mining gig is eating up everything | [15:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | i got 200s | [15:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | meet you in game we settle all this stuff diana_coman | [15:03] |
| diana_coman: | oh wow, down again? | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, yes mircea_popescu, would love to, lol | [15:04] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, would prefer higher q | [15:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | omfg already | [15:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | back | [15:05] |
| diana_coman: | yay, I'm in | [15:06] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [15:06] |
| danielpbarron: | i also want bits of nothing | [15:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | meh | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | common | [15:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | sorry folks | [15:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | until chetty has a chance to look at this it stays down. | [15:07] |
| diana_coman: | that gives me time to get that code sorted already, lol | [15:08] |
| chetty: | ok, so who is doing what differently? it was up all day yesterday, today crash after crash, and I didnt do any patches | [15:12] |
| danielpbarron: | mircea_popescu, would you be willing to do 3:1 grass to thread with my quality 280 grass? | [15:12] |
| jurov: | chetty i updated my code to mine smalls | [15:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron definitely. | [15:13] |
| danielpbarron: | aight i got at least 1k, maybe 2 | [15:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | once server's back on ima be in | [15:14] |
| diana_coman: | I didn't really change anything, chetty and moreover, when I mined today it worked perfectly fine, no crashes | [15:15] |
| diana_coman: | so I don't think it has anything to do with it | [15:16] |
| danielpbarron: | oh my macro mines tinies now | [15:16] |
| chetty: | yeah :( | [15:16] |
| danielpbarron: | i was an idiot before, thinking that the claims were always in a random position | [15:16] |
| danielpbarron: | i was mining in circles; that's why the claim sticks were never in the same spot | [15:17] |
| danielpbarron: | mine in lines and problem solved | [15:17] |
| diana_coman: | be moar robot :D | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | so there suggestion: place the claims in random positions :D | [15:18] |
| danielpbarron: | the client decides that | [15:18] |
| diana_coman: | I'm sure that the server can send not only item but also position | [15:19] |
| danielpbarron: | if you mean the coordinates then that would be something different | [15:19] |
| diana_coman: | yes, coordinates | [15:20] |
| danielpbarron: | i just mean the rotation of the 3d object | [15:21] |
| diana_coman: | oh, that is surely the same, of course | [15:21] |
| chetty: | ik its back up, someone may have lost a bandard toolkit, and I am taking a big stick to next person that crashes it | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | :D | [15:25] |
| diana_coman: | someone's making craft-tables... | [15:25] |
| hanbot: | hey jurov, i'd like to buy a btc's worth o' coppers please. | [21:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | started work on a batch of 144 (O.O) imp hoes | [23:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | projected to take... 30 hours or so. | [23:45] |
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