| diana_coman: | hello | [03:01] |
| chetty: | morning | [07:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman see log for comments! | [08:14] |
| diana_coman: | well mircea_popescu that was the kind of calculation I was doing pretty much at the very beginning | [08:18] |
| diana_coman: | having no idea about the value of things, I could at least calculate their cost for me based on what it cost me to make them | [08:19] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah, it turned out that the cost was actually quite higher than the so-called value (base value + quality consideration) | [08:20] |
| diana_coman: | still I'm gonna read that again | [08:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh definitely. notice the merchant / market value duality. | [08:21] |
| diana_coman: | I guess the weakest point that I see at the moment (still digesting it really) is the assumption that you really break even on that | [08:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | well it's a convenient assumption | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | (I just wore out 11 hoes and I haven't got so far even 11 mushrooms for it) | [08:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | just trying for some basic analysis of the process, dunno how else to go about it | [08:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | ouch. | [08:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | the problem is : i used up 17 sticks, never got ONE SINGLE ordinary. | [08:25] |
| diana_coman: | well, for one thing they are hoes from the merchant, so not that great | [08:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | then accidentally mixed up some tools, went to draw down the ~30k worth of tool thus created | [08:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | TWO ordinaries. | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | what can I say: I got 2 ordinaries with same hoes yest. but NOT ON MUSHROOMS geez | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | ahahha, yes | [08:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | heh. | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | and of course I can't build the bloody ordinaries | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | as they all require now two leaf clovers ffs | [08:26] |
| diana_coman: | anyway | [08:27] |
| diana_coman: | I think yes, you can certainly calculate at least the cost of your experience in something based on what you lose practically making+selling the stuff | [08:28] |
| diana_coman: | I guess it would be even interesting to compare various cases (such as overcraft or not or how much etc) | [08:28] |
| diana_coman: | as I suspect it's really not that stable as value | [08:28] |
| diana_coman: | but well, I don't have any concrete data for that | [08:29] |
| diana_coman: | (as an aside: I'll have loads of used hoes, as I have a big stash of them and I plan to wear all of them out - it doesn't take too long) | [08:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | the drastic problem with variance is this : | [08:34] |
| diana_coman: | yes? | [08:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | suppose you trade 10 dollar bills for either a) bags in which there is one strawberry (value 1) and a ticket of lottery A, or b) bags in which there is one peach (value 2) and a ticket of lottery B | [08:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | what is the fair market value of strawberries and peaches ? | [08:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | suppose lottery A pays once in a million tries, fifteen million dollars. this makes each ticket worth statistically 15, in which case the fair market value of a strawberry is -4 | [08:36] |
| diana_coman: | well, what's the difference between the two lotteries? | [08:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, negative. | [08:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | suppose lottery B pays twice your money every third try, so the fair market value of the peach is thus 3.333 or 166\% its "official" value | [08:36] |
| diana_coman: | well, put it fully: the value of a strawberry bought WITH a ticket for lottery A is negative, yes | [08:36] |
| diana_coman: | don't buy strawberries with lottery tickets!! | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | nevertheless : suppose THROUGH VARIANCE you get wins on the first 100 tries of B. | [08:37] |
| diana_coman: | so essentially there you are buying the lottery ticket with some strawberries mixed up in there for no good reason | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | now it appears the peach is really negative | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | and the strawberry like 500\% | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman very good reason :) makes it a game! | [08:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | so yeah : the reason i want 40\% on the imp hoes is that well, it's kinda what it seems to cost me to make them. but this is no sort of economiuc argument. | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, if you want to calculate the value of strawberries and peaches, you either a) buy them separately, not with lottery tickets or b) ignore the lottery tickets (possibly after you adjust if they are different) | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | not sure if those in eulora are different though | [08:38] |
| diana_coman: | and that's one catch from my point of vie | [08:39] |
| diana_coman: | view | [08:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | you obviously can't buy them separately, by design | [08:39] |
| diana_coman: | if basically indeed whatever you do is a lottery ticket pretty much for the same lottery | [08:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | you can only buy them separately if someone separates them for you, which is in the end the same thing | [08:39] |
| diana_coman: | then heck, what's the difference between everywhere and nowhere? | [08:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha | [08:40] |
| mircea_popescu: | it's not even a spurious question, eulora as-is becomes a very powerful inquiry tool into fucking fundaments of thought. | [08:40] |
| diana_coman: | I meant it, yes | [08:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman in particular for the case of imps, the problem is like this : | [08:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | willy-nilly to make tools you decay the toolkit. for like 2.2k iirc ? + the chair. for like 500 or so ? | [08:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | leaving aside the problems with actually getting these, for now. and the \% mkt value issues etc. let's just call it 3k for a moment, and leave it there. | [08:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | now - i looked, and both the q100 bundle and the q100 imp tool actually go for ~15k at the merchant. | [08:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | 5 tacks are like 7500 ; 12 slags are like 7500. the blueprint itself is like 5k at q 100. | [08:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | so this means that thsoi particular craft can never be undecrafted. | [08:43] |
| diana_coman: | ok, so it is with a lottery ticket at all times, right? | [08:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, even with fully drawn down tools, you get a q 100 bundle from q 100 tacks + slag + zero value tools | [08:44] |
| diana_coman: | ok | [08:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i have noticed that the merchant value of the item always exceeds its quality. | [08:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | like q 27k merchant wantds tyo pay 30k | [08:45] |
| diana_coman: | well, 1 quality point = 1 copper doesn't really seem a sane way of pricing things | [08:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | (imp only this) | [08:45] |
| diana_coman: | at least not for more complex stuff such as imps | [08:46] |
| diana_coman: | is the price for the bundle the same as for the tool? | [08:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | in the end the problem of pricing in eulora is not unlike the problem of "meaning in natural languages". whence does it come ? | [08:47] |
| diana_coman: | at the same quality I mean | [08:47] |
| diana_coman: | and at the merchant | [08:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | no. | [08:47] |
| diana_coman: | essentially the difference between them would be the value attached to time (labour) + tool decay | [08:47] |
| diana_coman: | logically speaking I guess | [08:47] |
| diana_coman: | though I am not even sure if that verifies in practice with anything | [08:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | if you do time value of items, then they are LESS valuable than the plain tools. | [08:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | look how i reason : | [08:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | the imp takes used tools, which can then be called 0. and tacks which take one process to make from slag, andslag which is a first generation crafted item | [08:48] |
| diana_coman: | well, for one thing as it goes now, the imps are certainly in some sense less valuable: for one thing they can't be reused basically | [08:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhile plain tools take the sam,e slag + OIL. which comes from bottles which come from shavings which are the first precursor. | [08:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | so, much more time involved. | [08:49] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, not necessarily really | [08:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | very much so ? | [08:49] |
| diana_coman: | it depends on how much each thing really takes, as uhm, slag and shavings are quite fast, don't remember the imps though | [08:49] |
| diana_coman: | I think basic tools were quite fast to make too? | [08:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | "quite fast" what's that mean ? | [08:50] |
| diana_coman: | or is the time directly linked to quality of the stuff in? | [08:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | you use 12 shavings per bottle. | [08:50] |
| diana_coman: | yes, and you make 12 shavings in what, 1 minute max? | [08:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | if we suppose for convenience the unverified theory that cost = linear function of time, then look how i reason : | [08:50] |
| diana_coman: | I should prolly add already a decent logging to the bot | [08:50] |
| diana_coman: | ok, listening | [08:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | 5 tacks 7500, 12 slag 7500, thus imp costs 15k "worth of time" | [08:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | meanwhilke for basic : | [08:51] |
| diana_coman: | ok | [08:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | 12 shavings, 3k + lft 4k + io 5k + 5 slag 7500 + shaped slag 9k | [08:51] |
| mircea_popescu: | 30k. twice as much. | [08:51] |
| diana_coman: | sounds reasonable as calculation | [08:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | so if the "time to make" is the approach to valuation, plain tools should be 2x as expensive as imps | [08:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | or, perhaps, their markin should be 2x ? tho this makes little sense, more of a hack than anything. | [08:53] |
| diana_coman: | yes, certainly a hack, lol | [08:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | in any case, "the part of the final value that comes from time" should be double for basic tools. | [08:53] |
| diana_coman: | but it makes sense that they cost more to make | [08:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | tho i suspect atm that value is 0 anyway | [08:53] |
| diana_coman: | the thing is that the tools have some value left in them when they are at 0 q | [08:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | " the imps are certainly in some sense less valuable: for one thing they can't be reused basically" << this i read to say "it's a game, the value of time is negative here" | [08:54] |
| diana_coman: | which is not true atm for the imps | [08:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah, that's another problem. they do chiefly because i pay 2k fgor each to make toolkits. except atm i mostly need... non-ch | [08:54] |
| diana_coman: | I guess for one thing these approaches are really focusing on cost rather than value, hence part of the trouble | [08:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. | [08:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | well i nfairness we did start with value, above, with the peaches. | [08:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | kinda went nowhere. | [08:55] |
| diana_coman: | looking at what they are useful for (and ignoring the lottery stuff since for one thing it is everywhere and for the other it is not really quantifiable this way) | [08:56] |
| diana_coman: | so what are the basic tools good for? you can make imps, you can mine, you can make toolkits | [08:56] |
| diana_coman: | what are the imps good for? you can...mine | [08:56] |
| diana_coman: | that's it | [08:56] |
| diana_coman: | so yeah, no wonder which ones are more valuable really | [08:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | well in this sense the currently failed us bomber is better than the f16 | [08:57] |
| diana_coman: | sure, you mine "with better chances" | [08:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | what can you use the f16 for ? one thing. what can you use the f-whatever for ? well, nothing really, except on paper. | [08:57] |
| diana_coman: | uhm | [08:57] |
| diana_coman: | I don't get the reference entirely as I don't have enough background on it | [08:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok, from robotzi : "si, face ce ?" "Si face bec, glouieste, lumineaza, deja-s 5 chestii." | [08:58] |
| diana_coman: | it's not about "number of uses" as such | [08:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | a simple count of "what things it does" is meaningless, really. something's not better because "it does more things" | [08:58] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, thought that's what you got it to mean | [08:59] |
| diana_coman: | no, surely not | [08:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | if the imps are any better at mining than the basic tools, then they're really the only right way to mine | [08:59] |
| diana_coman: | what I meant is: do you get more out of imps or out of basics? (same q etc) | [08:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | well i dunno | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | and ignoring the lottery winnings | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | since they are lottery, you could get more out of bare hands that way | [09:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | afaik the only time same q items even existed in game is when people were working for that fixed quality contest thing | [09:00] |
| diana_coman: | well no, the merchant sells a ton of same q items, lol | [09:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suppose the only way to answer this is to do sustained mining with both types and see. | [09:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | but the problem is that levels change. | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | and the averaging also helps with the"same quality" | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | yes | [09:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | you can't average unlike tools tho. | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | true | [09:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | but in point of fact! | [09:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | hey, here's a theory : | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | this thing with better at mining.. | [09:01] |
| diana_coman: | that's a bit weird | [09:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | suppose you run two functions, f and f'. where f is mining with a basic tool, and f' is mining with its imp equivalent. | [09:02] |
| diana_coman: | it's like: if the oven is better at cooking, then the oven is the only way to cook ! | [09:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | now, if we presume they both operate in the same space (ie, same lottery to use earlier convention) then the divergence between f and f' results actually indicate how close to statistical relevancy you are. | [09:02] |
| diana_coman: | not sure if that truly makes sense (though I did test the oven-approach quite a lot, lol) | [09:02] |
| mircea_popescu: | once they converge, you can actually use the data (within the limit of that convergence) to score the two relatively. | [09:03] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, sounds ok to me | [09:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | and the "only way to cook" is that basically people exhibit price preference, and if your tool is 3\% more effective, then you can sell 1.5\% cheaper and everyone will buy from you | [09:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | fuck. | [09:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | incidentally, i just figured out an entirely new way to price my wares! | [09:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | omfg. | [09:04] |
| diana_coman: | lol, glad to have helped | [09:04] |
| mircea_popescu: | check this out : i'm going to pay anyone selling me anything HALF of the difference between my qual and his. | [09:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | because, logically... that's what i make. | [09:05] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha, that was my initial approach to some things | [09:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | so you know, if you got q 39 items, that means you should get 199-39/2 + 39 = 119 | [09:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | whereas if you got q 179 items, you get 189 | [09:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | hm | [09:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | no this is perfectly reasonable isn't it. | [09:06] |
| diana_coman: | as in: my input is the difference between your quality and mine, so if you sell me a bundle to make a tool for you, I'll charge you the difference of quality | [09:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | 100\% for you is too much tho. | [09:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | 50-50 split seems more logical to me | [09:07] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, that was the very first go and well, it seemed too much | [09:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | goes to update his page. | [09:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | ftr, ima https://archive.is/6Cwhn when i change that page, if anyone cares about history. | [09:10] |
| lobbesbot: | Eulora Shop on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at archive.is) | [09:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | should be followable on https://archive.is/http://trilema.com/eulora-shop/ | [09:10] |
| lobbesbot: | http://trilema.com/eulora-shop/: Eulora Shop on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at archive.is) | [09:10] |
| diana_coman: | starts thinking of a pay wall for the recipe index | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | in any case I will surely *not* update the public version anymore | [10:08] |
| diana_coman: | since eulora's public seems to be extremely secretive otherwise | [10:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol | [10:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | eulora experimental result #548650 : foss is doomed, srsly. | [10:10] |
| diana_coman: | for sure | [10:11] |
| jurov: | too soon to draw conclusions | [10:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | true true | [10:11] |
| jurov: | some day you may realize you need someone to mine | [10:11] |
| jurov: | and these someone need some information, too | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, and then I'll share the info with those people | [10:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | i need someone to mine today lol | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | not with everyone | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | (my bot is mining as we speak) | [10:11] |
| diana_coman: | the foss is doomed thing makes it interesting as to the fate of eulora's client in any case | [10:17] |
| jurov: | when i remember how you balked at me asking certain price for my stuff | [10:17] |
| diana_coman: | but I guess we will see | [10:17] |
| jurov: | must laugh | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | jurov, I still think it is a wrong thing to do right now | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | go ahead and laugh, I don't mind | [10:18] |
| diana_coman: | what thing do you mean exactly? | [10:18] |
| jurov: | oh you forgot :) nm | [10:19] |
| diana_coman: | the location of TPT? I didn't think it worth what you wanted and I didn't pay | [10:19] |
| jurov: | am curious how are you ging to price your info then | [10:20] |
| jurov: | if the paywall development is to pay for itself at all | [10:20] |
| diana_coman: | oh, what is done is done, lol, it's not about that | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | as far as that is concerned, a paywall wouldn't be for the info (unless I update it) since the info is already out there | [10:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'm very curious how to price things myself! | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | it would be for the service (all in one place, easily accessible and grouped etc.) | [10:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman so then for... what ? | [10:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | a | [10:21] |
| diana_coman: | what, doesn't that make sense? | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | as I said I am just *starting* to think about it - I certainly still need to think it through properly | [10:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | it might make sense, i dunno | [10:22] |
| diana_coman: | we will see I guess | [10:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | superficially it seems it just creates the incentive for someone to copy it from you and sell it half price, and you have not much recourse as you dont actually own it anyway. | [10:23] |
| diana_coman: | the info yes | [10:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | well the whole thing. | [10:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | which then turns it into the perversity of drm on some level, which etc. | [10:23] |
| diana_coman: | that's why for the moment I said I will not update it | [10:23] |
| diana_coman: | precisely because of that | [10:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | ie, the meta-game retraces ontogenesis | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | if I don't solve that, there is no point to it | [10:24] |
| diana_coman: | given that there seem to be atm more people with a free-riding ideal than otherwise, it doesn't make any sense for me to make any updates public | [10:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | atm ? | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | I can update it locally as much as I wish and why would I make it public? no reason | [10:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | what sense does that make lol. | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, what part? | [10:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | there seem to be atm more people with a free-riding ideal than otherwise << when or where was this not the case | [10:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | "it seems atm there's an atmospheric pressure" | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | I meant : in game | [10:25] |
| diana_coman: | as percentage | [10:26] |
| mircea_popescu: | everywhere. all the time. | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | or if you prefer not enough not-free-riding people | [10:26] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [10:27] |
| diana_coman: | <mircea_popescu> everywhere. all the time. <-- as a total, sure, but that's not necessarily very relevant to a specific concrete case/situation | [10:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | is that specific concrete you being butthurt cuz daniel won't share where he found what, nt was it ? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | if I'm in a group with few free-riders (or at least as long as not enough free riders have joined), I find it more beneficial to share | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | no | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [10:30] |
| mircea_popescu: | well then what ewlse ?! that'd be the only secret i know of ? | [10:30] |
| diana_coman: | the concrete case/situation here is "eulora world" - it's in there that now the balance has tipped (from my perspective at least) too much towards free-riders, hence offering anything is a losing proposition for sure | [10:32] |
| diana_coman: | and lol, that's why they are secrets so that one doesn't know about them, aren't they? | [10:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah true | [10:33] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i mean how do you define free riding ? | [10:33] |
| diana_coman: | the tubers thing is at most a manifestation of the situation but not a situation in itself, how would that even be, lol | [10:33] |
| diana_coman: | basically "I don't have to pay in any form for what others made available" - here "pay" does not equal money | [10:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | then how can you verify it ? | [10:36] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, probably should have added "pay to those who made it available" , lol | [10:36] |
| mircea_popescu: | but how would you verify ? | [10:37] |
| mircea_popescu: | maybe you've been paid in pataphysical coins. | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | oh, sure, there will of course still be lots of things offered in pataphysical coins | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | of course | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | what you offer is what you get in return | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | "any form" sinks any attempt to reason. for all you knwo they donated a billion dollars in your name | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | let's put it this way | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | to isis, lol | [10:38] |
| diana_coman: | that'd be to someone else though | [10:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | any form! | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | so you say that "any form" makes it meaningless to specify to whom | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | since all of a sudden anything can be attributed to anyone by a change of...form | [10:39] |
| diana_coman: | lolz | [10:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | it certainly makes it impossible for you to claim you've not been paid. | [10:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | which is why the legal extant infrastructure specifies form. | [10:40] |
| diana_coman: | ok then, form would have to be "in kind" so info for info etc | [10:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | so what'd be the in kind equivalent for "i've made a website with recipes linked" ? | [10:42] |
| diana_coman: | anyway, I'm actually more curious than anything else as how this will fare especially now in the beginning as I think it is just making things more difficult in fact | [10:43] |
| diana_coman: | it depends what people find it useful for: if they don't find it useful for anything, than 0; if they go there for the info (as in what does X recipe want or what can I build with x ingredient as daniel asked at some point iirc), then info | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | etc | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | at the very basic: usefulness | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | so: do they pay back with something useful? | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | if yes, ok | [10:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah but how would they know, and how do you evaluate. | [10:44] |
| diana_coman: | if no, then no incentive to provide usefulness | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | these are not trivial problems. | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | for instance : i'm the only one to date to have shared some statistical results as to activity runs. i suspect many people keep this data, in some sort of format. | [10:45] |
| diana_coman: | of course they are not, hence there wasn't any discussion even on "how much" as that is certainly very difficult to evaluate | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | would it be easier to research the game if it were all somehow accessible ? sure. | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | does that matter ? | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | makes a much better comparison point, as this is trivially atomizable. "i give you 1mn records you give me 1mn records" | [10:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | in any case : the online system is very deeply one-to-many, which means to say it has free riding as an economic prerequisite outright. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | "does that matter?" <-- I think that will be answered by whether someone will pay (in some form) for it, simply; that's pretty much what I started this with in the first place: since apparently now eulorans consider that what is offered does not matter | [10:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | eulora very innovatively (in fact - internet-breaking level of innovative, but anyway) provides an actual one-to-one background too, which merans that it ALSO allows information trade | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | it follows that there is no point in offering anything anymore | [10:47] |
| mircea_popescu: | because there's no real way to fight the variance otherwise. | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | one can auction stuff | [10:47] |
| diana_coman: | can sell stuff | [10:47] |
| danielpbarron: | http://danielpbarron.com/eulora/bouquinism.txt http://danielpbarron.com/eulora/building.txt http://danielpbarron.com/eulora/gathering.txt http://danielpbarron.com/eulora/mcguyver.txt http://danielpbarron.com/eulora/tinkering.txt | [10:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://trilema.com/eulora-shop/ << updated shop | [10:52] |
| lobbesbot: | Eulora Shop on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. (at trilema.com) | [10:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | o shit! nice danielpbarron | [10:53] |
| danielpbarron: | i don't keep track of that stuff anymore | [10:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | and you are actually right - you had shared a bunch of stat data on crafts much before i did. | [10:53] |
| danielpbarron: | no you shared first i think | [10:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | oh ? how come no more ? not useful ? | [10:53] |
| danielpbarron: | it was too much trouble | [10:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | it is a lot of trouble. | [10:54] |
| diana_coman: | I think that will be sorted once some proper logging is in place | [10:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | one of the major problems here is evaluating whjat trouble's worth taking. | [10:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | kinda the actual driver of my "any form" point from before. | [10:54] |
| danielpbarron: | i get more useful info by just taking it in subconsciously or something like that | [10:54] |
| diana_coman: | (which of course makes it now interesting as to how much would logging be valued for, lol) | [10:54] |
| danielpbarron: | for example, i suspect improved tools are more likely to hit smalls | [10:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | i suspect so too. | [10:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | how much more likely tho. | [10:55] |
| diana_coman: | smalls as opposed to tiny you mean, danielpbarron? | [10:55] |
| danielpbarron: | yea | [10:55] |
| danielpbarron: | more likely to hit ordinary too | [10:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | that i've never seen | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | mhm, are chetty sticks more likely to hit ordinary then? | [10:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | to me best finder of ordinary is the basic tool o.O | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, same exp here too | [10:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman they certainly never hit a tiny, in say 28 or so tries | [10:56] |
| danielpbarron: | well i found 3 ordinary last night bare-handed | [10:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | holy shit | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | but I suspect it really is skewed by how much I used each type in a single run | [10:56] |
| danielpbarron: | wasted because my macro doesn't lock them | [10:56] |
| mircea_popescu: | omfg. | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha danielpbarron | [10:56] |
| danielpbarron: | so i just have the enumerations, not the keys | [10:56] |
| diana_coman: | you made my day | [10:56] |
| danielpbarron: | shrugs | [10:57] |
| danielpbarron: | i have a bunch of ordinaries, i'm pretty good at finding those now | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | but yes, it goes with what I was saying a bit earlier | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | I suspect it's less the tool | [10:57] |
| danielpbarron: | i'd be pretty pissed to find i had wasted a remarkable | [10:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | so why dont you mine them ? | [10:57] |
| diana_coman: | and more for how long you keep banging at it, lol | [10:57] |
| danielpbarron: | i need some lotus harlots | [10:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | darn those have to be found. | [10:57] |
| danielpbarron: | but i can wait | [10:57] |
| danielpbarron: | it's no rush | [10:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | yea | [10:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | i been sitting on a few remarkables since many days now | [10:58] |
| danielpbarron: | don't hold your breath on those | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | once I'm done with those wm needed to finish the oil order | [10:58] |
| danielpbarron: | i have a remarkable, the ingredients make it sound like a big commercial dig | [10:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | any of you read my new page yet btw ? | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | I'll just leave the bot to mine on a systematic pattern | [10:58] |
| diana_coman: | splitting the map into areas of increasingly smaller size | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | sooner or later it should find interesting stuff I guess | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman fractal ? :D | [10:59] |
| danielpbarron: | i found shrooms down by the beach somehow | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | ahahahah | [10:59] |
| danielpbarron: | don't know where, but i had shroom enumerations this morning | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | there are shrooms a bit upper high in the sandy area | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron whatcha think of my new pricing system ? | [10:59] |
| danielpbarron: | didn't look yet | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | hops up and down | [10:59] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu it's what we discussed earlier, isn't it? | [10:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | basically. | [11:00] |
| diana_coman: | my trouble now is that it wears down tools too fast, lol | [11:00] |
| mircea_popescu: | this is a major advantage of imps | [11:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | like 50\% more dur | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, that's more of an advantage indeed than anything else I heard so far | [11:01] |
| diana_coman: | oh, do you want dead molluscs? | [11:03] |
| diana_coman: | I guess I'll auction some of those then | [11:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [11:03] |
| danielpbarron: | locked claims seem to last at least a month | [11:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | nah, i have remarkables still in place since may. | [11:04] |
| danielpbarron: | so there you go | [11:04] |
| diana_coman: | they last longer danielpbarron from what I can tell | [11:04] |
| danielpbarron: | i get the principle of your new pricing but i don't grok it | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | oh, imps you sell only ch, mircea_popescu? | [11:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah. | [11:05] |
| diana_coman: | danielpbarron see the logs for some background discussion, as it might help | [11:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | and do me a favour don't make the others into imps, we'll be shit out of toolkits. | [11:05] |
| danielpbarron: | read the log already | [11:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron which part isn't makin sense ? | [11:05] |
| danielpbarron: | it makes sense | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | for that very reason I haven't made imps in quite a while | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | like at all | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [11:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. i only started making some once electron stocked tools. | [11:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | but the thing is... i am not convinced atm it's an economically productive activity. | [11:06] |
| mircea_popescu: | kinda why i opened the price discussion on them earlier. | [11:06] |
| diana_coman: | (lol, about 5 shrooms per hour so far, I'll need 8 hours for the lot, sigh) | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | the thing is - for a few weeks it was very easy for me to make determinations and eulora ran reasonably as a centrally planend economy | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | but by now it diverged too much from starting point and i have nfi. | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | i specifically can't establish if making imp hoes increases our wealth or diminishes it. | [11:07] |
| mircea_popescu: | which is the last bastion of sense, really. once not even that can be answered, planned economy ends. | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | notably it took a dozen people nine weeks. which... | [11:08] |
| danielpbarron: | didn't you set all the numbers behind the scenes? | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | so ? | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | hmmmm, as a very haphazard thing, what I can do now is to buy at least 10 of them and let the bot run + compare the results with what I got so far this half-day on about 20 ch | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | quite curious really if I see any distinguishable differences | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman wouldn't you rather wait for sun auction ? | [11:08] |
| diana_coman: | (as actual significance, no chance) | [11:08] |
| mircea_popescu: | i got ~18 of em | [11:08] |
| danielpbarron: | i'm gonna go out on a limb and say improved tools are worth it | [11:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | so it is roughly speaking 2-3k trials, better than nothing. | [11:09] |
| danielpbarron: | for their increased chance of finding better claims | [11:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron well sure but i mean, saying is one thing. | [11:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | one major problem is, we haven't yet even mined remarkables, but found them | [11:09] |
| danielpbarron: | if you think of it in terms of your typical yield, it seems like a losing venture | [11:09] |
| mircea_popescu: | we can't even evaluate what THAT means for the ecosystem | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | mhm, I guess it makes sense to wait | [11:10] |
| danielpbarron: | but every once in a while you hit that claim that gives you 3k or whatever | [11:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron grenadine is like... 10mn ahead on her 10mn, strictly trhrough this lol | [11:10] |
| diana_coman: | as anyway if I am truly impatient I still have some stashes of studs, I can get together some slag and make imps out of those hoes I have | [11:10] |
| mircea_popescu: | she apparently only gets THOSE claims | [11:10] |
| danielpbarron: | part of the equation is other players | [11:10] |
| danielpbarron: | i started getting better claims when that new guy joined | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman here is a different, less globally relevant but just as pointed question. can you establish if it is better to use worn down hoes or electron hoes in making imp hoes ? | [11:11] |
| diana_coman: | grenadine seems to have quite a knack for getting stuff (those+ recipes) - quite amazed really :) | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron sure, that happens. | [11:11] |
| danielpbarron: | depends if you're trying to get blueprints | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman she's incredible with the recipes, 8 sticks she made, 30 recipes produced. | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | last batch idem | [11:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | danielpbarron well doh. but the question still stands you know. | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | and she makes the sticks at like 75 eq qualk or something | [11:12] |
| danielpbarron: | if you need blueprints it's better to use full quaity | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | but it's not clear you want the recipes that much o.O | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | that's what I mean: short of some "sweet spot" kind of thing (which I don't really believe to be true), it's then what: personal luck | [11:12] |
| danielpbarron: | unelss someone is selling cheap blueprints | [11:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | for instance you said the imp recipes i got aren't worth 200\% | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | or otherwise some character traits if those come in equation | [11:12] |
| diana_coman: | diana_coman here is a different, less globally relevant but just as pointed question. can you establish if it is better to use worn down hoes or electron hoes in making imp hoes ? <--- wouldn't this depend on your level? | [11:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | i have nfi. | [11:13] |
| diana_coman: | as in whether you get any overcraft at all | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | i like it because it is a simple question, not because i understand what it means. | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman you can't really undercraft imp crafts. | [11:14] |
| danielpbarron: | and yet i do | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | how ? | [11:14] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [11:14] |
| diana_coman: | so then you *can* | [11:14] |
| diana_coman: | that's what I wanted to say | [11:14] |
| danielpbarron: | if i use worn tools, i don't get loot | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | i think he thinks he does. | [11:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | NEVER ? | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | (and meanwhile I got a tiny shroom claim precisely atm when mining bare-handed because of used tool, lol) | [11:15] |
| danielpbarron: | i don't know about never | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | see, it happened to me with cooking thids - got no loot on making gins | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | (what does that make?) | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | in like 20 | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | then the 21st i got > 800 recipes in one boom | [11:15] |
| danielpbarron: | enough for me to not want to keep doing it | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | so i had THOUGHT i was undercrafting it | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | but turns out i wasn't. | [11:15] |
| danielpbarron: | well i'd love to get 800 imp blueprints | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | these were bng bps | [11:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | but anyway | [11:15] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot heard you are the best blueprint maker in town - any blueprints for sale? | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | the way i figure it : since (my) recipes are 10k, and the decay on the toolkit etc is 3k, in order to truly undercraft an imp i need the BUNDLE to be like 100 q points under my output. so the bundle needs to be like 92. | [11:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | even with 0 qual tools this means slag/tacks under q 90 | [11:16] |
| danielpbarron: | alright so i'm not under crafting | [11:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | now, if one has low q imp recipes, maybe it works easier. | [11:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | but the thing is, i noticed - imp bps are very expensive | [11:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | like 4-5k at q 100 at merchant | [11:17] |
| danielpbarron: | i think that it's because my tinkering rank is so high that i can't get blueprints | [11:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | but meanwhile - since the bp is so expensive, say my overcraft is 100. well... itwon't give me a 10k recipe, unless i hit a 100x multiplier | [11:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | in which case i'd actually get loot for my still present overcraft rather rarely, once in however many tries a 100x pops | [11:19] |
| mircea_popescu: | so i could think it's not there, but... it is. | [11:19] |
| diana_coman: | if I have enough studs and slag, I might do a test run out of curiosity along the lines of making 100 imps out of spiron's hoes and 100 out of 0q hoes | [11:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | 2400 slag ? | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | but of course the level changes | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | anyway | [11:20] |
| diana_coman: | as I'm bound to level in such runs | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | i am just making 1800 slag right now, if you want it... but man it's fucking expensive. | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman admire the design brilliance of "many small levels" hm ? :D | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | totally closes the hatch. | [11:21] |
| danielpbarron: | oh it turns out it is possible to train while overloaded as long as you opened the training window while you weren't overloaded and didn't close it | [11:21] |
| diana_coman: | yeah, I know, and as long as I still have high q flotsam and shiny rock it anyway makes more sense to leave the bot to make slag | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | aha. | [11:21] |
| mircea_popescu: | o you got sr stashed ? | [11:22] |
| mircea_popescu: | so do i lol. | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | oh, that's a good find danielpbarron | [11:22] |
| danielpbarron: | birdman found it | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | I guess it works for a while though it will eventually lose target/focus and go to shit | [11:22] |
| danielpbarron: | he told me and i was like "no way, i tried that and it doesn't work" ... go and try it.. it works.. | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | (I know as I experienced that before - had the window open and then at some point it just lost it) | [11:22] |
| diana_coman: | I use that kind of approach when I buy stuff I want to put in inventory , but I hadn't thought to try it with training | [11:23] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu still have some stash, yes, though probably smaller than what you have | [11:23] |
| mircea_popescu: | im half thinking i'll slag the lot. | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | what's holding you? | [11:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | sick of looking at it sitting there and not so sure there's anything else to do with sr | [11:24] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman 135\% on flotsam, that's what. | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | or are you selling sr and/or high q flotsam? | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | shiny rock shards if you don't have enough of those (I certainly do for now) | [11:24] |
| diana_coman: | (srs was what I burnt a lot of sr on, lol) | [11:25] |
| mircea_popescu: | i gota few ks | [11:25] |
| diana_coman: | ks? | [11:29] |
| mircea_popescu: | k's. of srs. | [11:29] |
| diana_coman: | oh, I see | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | so then: selling any flotsam ? | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | or shiny rock? | [11:34] |
| diana_coman: | I can always use more, lol | [11:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | selling flotsam ?! i'm buying it o.O | [11:36] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha | [11:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | didn't you ask me earlier what's keeping me ? | [11:38] |
| mircea_popescu: | and i said paying electron 135\% ? | [11:39] |
| diana_coman: | indeed | [11:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | so what, want to pay me 136\% on it ? | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | that was basically my question, yes | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | but since you are actually buying flotsam whatever quality, it probably makes more sense to do a run on that | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | (since flotsam is NOT like bloody shitty mushrooms to hit once in a blue moon) | [11:40] |
| diana_coman: | so nm | [11:41] |
| mircea_popescu: | lol by the new formula i suppose i should pay you a negative for flotsam :D | [11:42] |
| diana_coman: | ahahaha no, as I don't have storage and therefore I get shitty flotsam, lol | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | that's exactly why I would rather sell you my flotsam and buy yours ,lol | [11:43] |
| diana_coman: | and quite, any interest in that? like I pay you the difference in quality or something? | [11:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | but mine is from electron ?! | [11:44] |
| mircea_popescu: | im confused. | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | lol | [11:44] |
| diana_coman: | and oh, you are actually right, my flotsam is still too good to sell | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | sigh | [11:45] |
| mircea_popescu: | lolwut ? | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | well, by your formula, you'd give me less than its quality | [11:45] |
| diana_coman: | ugh, geez, no, got mixed up with the example, ugh | [11:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | i was joking lol | [11:46] |
| mircea_popescu: | what q is your flotsam anyway ? | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | still some imp I guess | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | 155 probably, since no sortage | [11:46] |
| diana_coman: | basically your formula is ok for buying stuff with lower quality than your tinkering though? | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | is that correct? | [11:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeh it is | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | since anything higher than that would get a penalty | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | not sure if you actually want it that way | [11:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | the only problem is, my slag's currently overcrafted. if i move from 333 to 155 flotsam, i lose that much overcraft. so i'd have to also switch to low sr | [11:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | which i do not have | [11:48] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman the idea being that nobody mines stuff higher than my craft skill anyway. which is kinda tenous | [11:48] |
| diana_coman: | so then I guess the only proposition to make sense would be a bundle? | [11:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | but i guess i make an ad hoc deal in that special case. | [11:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | diana_coman tell you waht, i'll sue your flotsam to make ibs | [11:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | because that way i can give you high q lft bundles. i have the goop and the thread. | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | sue my flotsam, lol? | [11:49] |
| mircea_popescu: | use lol | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | oh, sure | [11:49] |
| diana_coman: | that sounds simple enough as an arrangement for sure | [11:50] |
| diana_coman: | arghhhh one tiny claim not used, have no idea which | [11:50] |
| mircea_popescu: | ok so, once you're done with the oil flasks, go dig up flotsam, ill make it ibs. | [11:50] |
| diana_coman: | deal | [11:51] |
| diana_coman: | at least I kind of level up in gathering with all this dreadful wm thing | [11:52] |
| diana_coman: | sigh | [11:52] |
| mircea_popescu: | incidentally... why do you want to move from moss and wm to flotsam which is basic ? | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | it's more efficient with the bot really | [11:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | i'd have thought it optimal for danielpbarron to dig that. or me. | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | since it gets a claim each time | [11:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | ah. | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | and it mines the tinies | [11:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | i guess you really need sortage huh. | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | so if I leave it on like for half an hour I probably already can't move anymore | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | and yeah | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | I need it for sure | [11:54] |
| diana_coman: | it is optimal for you two to dig that for sure | [11:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | more than cooking ? | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | quite possibly yes | [11:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | yeah except i fucking hate mining now after the rape the sticks gave me | [11:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | and i need a shitton of sb too ;/ | [11:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | actually... hey! | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | yes? | [11:55] |
| mircea_popescu: | you got any ppb ? | [11:55] |
| diana_coman: | still only a few since I just sold the sb to korgan | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | maybe he has more ppb, don't know | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | in any case, sb is the same as flotsam for me | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | (meaning: easy to get some hundreds of them, though low quality because no sortage) | [11:56] |
| diana_coman: | oh, as a matter of fact: what would you charge for mining an ordinary ? or what would you pay for an ordinary (flotsam esp)? | [11:57] |
| mircea_popescu: | you got the bundle ? | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | uhm, that's a good point, I need to check | [11:58] |
| diana_coman: | (not sure if it needed some 2 leaf clovers or not, lol) | [11:58] |
| mircea_popescu: | the reason im not digging for flotsam myself is that i can't afford the ordinaries. | [11:59] |
| mircea_popescu: | same goes for grass etc. | [11:59] |
| diana_coman: | that's my trouble with sm for sure :( | [12:00] |
| diana_coman: | I didn't really check the ordinaries for basic resources since it didn't make sense for me to build them now | [12:01] |
| mircea_popescu: | it still doesn't lol. | [12:01] |
| diana_coman: | precisely, lol, hence my question on building service or buying them | [12:05] |
| mircea_popescu: | i would build them if you have the bundle somehow. | [12:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | but not otherwise cuz well, i don't have the stuff. | [12:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | incidentally - i'm down to 2k flotsam from the almost 10k i started with. this has given me like 6 tinkering levels | [12:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | and 3 sortage | [12:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | but more notably - finally pushed my tinker qual to 200. | [12:12] |
| mircea_popescu: | now... how the fuck much is the value of that extra qual point / | [12:13] |
| mircea_popescu: | how do i evaluate this ? was it worth it doing the craft ? how much off the cost of this slag i should offset for that point ? | [12:13] |
| diana_coman: | nfi on those, lol | [12:14] |
| mircea_popescu: | neway, i was feeling kinda down and depressed on the whole thing... but now that i've seen that point... | [12:15] |
| mircea_popescu: | i;m very tempted to just buy out the flotsam and slag the lot. | [12:15] |
| diana_coman: | buy out? | [12:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | from merchant | [12:16] |
| diana_coman: | oh, how come I did not see that earlier? | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | geez, lol | [12:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | mebbe not reading the logs ? | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | I did read and I did check | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | but prolly too early or something? | [12:17] |
| diana_coman: | weird | [12:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | http://logs.minigame.bz/2015-08-10.log.html#t20:22:40 < ? | [12:19] |
| lobbesbot: | #Eulora log for Monday, 2015-08-10 (at logs.minigame.bz) | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | yes, you can even see a bit lower there my lol@tubers | [12:19] |
| diana_coman: | when I checked after that, there were no tubers and no flotsam either | [12:20] |
| diana_coman: | hence: weird | [12:20] |
| mircea_popescu: | ye | [12:21] |
| diana_coman: | got bot to spit out all attempts, something like this: 77.41,37.02,237.25, | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | 73.16,37.33,237.09, | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | 69.43,37.59,236.95,Tiny Wooly Mushroom Exploration Marker | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | 72.20,37.39,237.05,Tiny Spicy Moss Exploration Marker | [13:15] |
| diana_coman: | where the lines without any "marker" at the end means it did not find anything | [13:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | nb | [13:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | this would actually be very useful for a programatically coloured mining map | [13:16] |
| mircea_popescu: | because the random view ones we currently have are only useful to humans | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | since apparently some data at least is being shared around, will prolly upload some logs too as soon as they are a bit more consistent | [13:16] |
| diana_coman: | yes, of course, this logging is basically what I needed anyway for any sort of mining strategy for the bot | [13:17] |
| diana_coman: | but well, tiny steps more than remarkable ones | [13:17] |
| mircea_popescu: | would like to see a whole island colormap | [13:18] |
| mircea_popescu: | anyway, it would seem my crafter could maximally process ~ 5mn / day worth of materials at q 100 | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | currently doing a shade over 15mn a day on bundles q 315 | [13:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | which i suppose is above the poverty line o.O | [13:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | how goes phf | [13:38] |
| phf: | alright, got back home from dc, another hot philadelphia day | [13:39] |
| mircea_popescu: | hates heat. | [13:40] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu would like to see a whole island colormap <--- that would be a very nice thing to see,wouldn't it? | [13:42] |
| mircea_popescu: | yes. | [13:43] |
| phf: | i'm contemplating getting another AC, because kitchen feels like a scene out of a movie about Taxes, all heat haze and lizards | [13:43] |
| mircea_popescu: | it would for one thing validate whether mining works as intended or not | [13:43] |
| diana_coman: | drat, I guess the data really *needs* tool info too | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | as otherwise it will be skewed when tool worn | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | shit | [13:55] |
| diana_coman: | crash? | [14:39] |
| diana_coman: | chetty or mircea_popescu ^ | [14:42] |
| hanbot: | <diana_coman> hanbot heard you are the best blueprint maker in town - any blueprints for sale? << atm i have a buncha pennance clogs bps, otherwise bps go to whoever gave me ingredients for crafts since that's pretty much the loot. next i'm in game i'll do that for ya if you like. | [15:14] |
| chetty: | up | [15:35] |
| danielpbarron: | up | [15:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | Birdman yo, want some sb ? | [15:48] |
| Birdman: | whats sb? | [15:48] |
| Birdman: | if you still have those tiny enumerations, ill take those | [15:53] |
| mircea_popescu: | branch | [15:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | to make ppb | [15:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | and yueah i still have them, they've been molding in my store | [15:54] |
| mircea_popescu: | going in | [15:54] |
| Birdman: | sweet ill meet you at the npcs | [15:55] |
| Birdman: | many used tools too | [15:55] |
| Birdman: | ~11 | [15:55] |
| diana_coman: | mircea_popescu want the ordinary sb thing? | [16:21] |
| diana_coman: | jurov fwiw: I think I know why your code gets mixed up on markers sometimes | [17:01] |
| diana_coman: | you are simply catching messages for new markers from what I saw | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | and the thing is that you get that message whenever some new item gets within your view as it were | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | hence, for instance if someone else is exploring close enough to you | [17:02] |
| diana_coman: | you might get their marker message as it were | [17:02] |
| jurov: | haven't i said that myself? | [17:05] |
| diana_coman: | oh, I must have missed that then, sorry | [17:05] |
| jurov: | maybe not.. anyway, i have no idea how to easily fix it | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | well, I guess you'd need to check its properties | [17:06] |
| diana_coman: | as in: whether you guard it or something | [17:06] |
| jurov: | hah\ | [17:07] |
| jurov: | aha | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | prolly doesn't qualify for "easily" though, lol | [17:07] |
| jurov: | thanks anyway | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | np | [17:07] |
| diana_coman: | hanbot that sounds good to me; I'll try to put together some things to do and will ping you when I have all the stuff ready, thanks | [17:11] |
| mircea_popescu: | so if anyone's curious, my slag run discussed earlier resulted in 346123 base worth of blueprints and 1882 slag at q 199 | [18:31] |
| mircea_popescu: | "im gonna make 1871 slag q 199 for a cost of 5399706, or 2886 per." turns out i actually made 11 extra (like 0.5\%!) | [18:32] |
| mircea_popescu: | with the bps at base value and the slag idem, i made 2535486 + 346123 = 2881609 base returns or 53\% of my original cost. | [18:34] |
| mircea_popescu: | (of course it'd be fairer to compare base value to base value, even if i did actually pay the premium on that stuff - in which case it's 2881609/4173658 or 69\% returns) | [18:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | in any case, i bought more flotsam and started a 10k click run now, so im curious. | [18:35] |
| mircea_popescu: | but the "cost to make" price of slag would seem somewhere around 2685 each, at q 199, or roughly 200 fucking percent. | [18:37] |
| danielpbarron: | mircea_popescu, got any threads for sale? | [22:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | i do. how many'd you like ? | [22:03] |
| danielpbarron: | 1k | [22:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | i might have that many, lemme check. | [22:03] |
| mircea_popescu: | p | [22:12] |
Comments feed: RSS 2.0