Day changed to 2026-02-02
[02:41] Wolfgang Middlesit: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 18.6k shells more than what you’re offering.
[02:43] Wolfgang Middlesit: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 2.5k shells more than what you’re offering.
[02:46] Wolfgang Middlesit: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 61 shells more than what you’re offering.
[03:05] Raphael Nethersmell: pro tip I shared with Vivian Sporepress and might as well share w/ the log : if you’re building multiple claims of the same resource, you can load up the 10th slot in your inventory with however many enums you want*, as you ziggurate each claim, it’ll decrement the count by one. this saves you from having to click & cluck enums over to the 10th slot each run, which apart from saving you time & effort, saves server traffic.
[03:05] Raphael Nethersmell: *if there’s an upper limit, i’ve not found it yet.
[08:13] Diana Coman: well noted, Raphael Nethersmell and it works for any action that needs something in that slot, whether use or explore on whatever it is. The limit is likely only the maxint upper limit of what can go in a single stack.
[08:14] Diana Coman: meanwhile it turns out that my char ends up overbulk faster than overweight and with …grass of all things, huh.
[08:14] Diana Coman: apparently the trouble with keeping keys is that they are way bulkier than the corresponding lbn
[10:38] Diana Coman: talking on ziggurating claims, there is now available the bot zig job that goes through the keys in one’s inventory, picks one with a claim that is currently visible, with quality above given threshold and for which there is also the corresponding enum + bundle/ingredients, proceeds to the claim’s location, equips enum, moves ingredients to claim (using % as given), requests use on it, takes results from claim as it finds them.
[10:38] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-02-02 (Notices and Announcements) Monroe Quarterslit: ** Euloran news: newly deployed client adds bot zig and bot bundle jobs, as well as a visible warning when one’s own char in game is overweight or overbulk (as the client knows it at the time). While the new zig job is known to handle successfuly all the intricacies of ziggurating claims, perfection does not exist and how effective and/or efficient it may prove to be for one player or another depends as well on how well the player understands what they are doing and thus how well they put it to use. So now that there is at least one automation available for each of the more intricate in-game activities, the question is: what will PCs do with it all?**
[10:42] Diana Coman: obviously, given the number and intricacies of steps in there, it’s quite the job and there are plenty of things that can go wrong – on occasion they do go wrong, too! Generally from the relatively short-time (couple of days) testing I got to put it through, it recovers by itself just fine, only it can take a while/end up repeatedly moving stuff back and forth – so if you do mean to use it, it’s probably best to see how it works in your specific setup and then figure out what parameter values and even what sequence of jobs works best for what you want from it (e.g. since ziggurating needs a lot of info on a claim to be able to work with it, it might not be able to start on a freshly explored new claim straight away)
[10:45] Diana Coman: making better (best?) use of things as they are though is quite the nature of the game and where the difference can be made by any player without needing to start or know programming, so let me know if you give it a try.
[10:46] Diana Coman: for the record, the bundle job does exactly what you’d expect, namely aims to make bundles only, in whatever container is set as target when you start the job. Both bundle and zig actually read the blueprint/method so they’ll keep working even if/when the counts change on it.
[12:53] Diana Coman: a note to mind perhaps the location of claims when zig+explore, esp when relatively close to sector border (coming to you from my rather unintended trip to the faraway Barmy Crossing of Madness (some 16 sectors south of PPP according to the handy clientside map, way past that Fertile Knoll of Friskiness)
[15:14] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, sounds great re zigg’d botting, I’ve updated my client and will try it out later tonight.
[15:24] Diana Coman: cheers.
[16:10] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: spiffy economic reporting from Monroe Quarterslit. just that seeing the deltas now makes me wonder about the opening positions. poor environment… at least it’s big, or so it appears so far
[16:14] Vivian Sporepress: hearing of the NPC’s cash decreasing and so forth makes me wonder, do they have some limited initial pile of it? or can they just go arbitrarily negative if people keep selling stuff to the merchants?
[16:15] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, good to know, thanks. The deltas are literally the result as noticed at that monthly measurement. Why exactly wondering about the opening positions as such? Kind of iffy from a privacy pov to make these public.
[16:17] Diana Coman: well, in the widest sense, keeping all euloran economy meaningful and ticking is part of my job as world-maintainer so I do keep an eye on all these things. In the immediate, you noticed perhaps that an NPC out of cash will say so and refuse the trade since he can’t match it, there is no magicking anything out of thin air.
[16:18] Diana Coman: in general terms, value may get perhaps recycled when/if/as needed but not just created out of nothing.
[16:19] Vivian Sporepress: I suppose one can look at how long the game’s been going and extrapolate to get some rough idea of the totals based on the unreported months. yeah, I don’t know if it’s wisest to publish the totals, it just came to mind to give more context to the changes, or more meaning to the monetary amounts, like knowing the total btc supply limit
[16:20] Diana Coman: heh, more knowledge is always wanted but rarely available just for that reason, certainly
[16:20] Diana Coman: I’m pondering whether a total of amount traded might be added to these reports at some point but it’s not yet top of the list anyhow
[16:21] Vivian Sporepress: I saw some having trouble making change at least with Wolfgang Middlesit, but no such with Rainer Tracksnarl
[16:22] Diana Coman: for the record, one case in which I can see a reason to make the total btc supply limit known and public would be perhaps if there is a public pooling of such btc i.e. literally public subscription
[16:23] Diana Coman: every NPC has his/her limits, even if some may be larger than others!
[16:25] Vivian Sporepress: what do you mean about a public pooling/subscription? I mentioned btc as an example, knowing it’s not directly involved here
[16:26] Vivian Sporepress: and makes sense about limits; iirc Rainer Tracksnarl had at most 9999 of any given item
[16:26] Vivian Sporepress: (or maybe 10k even)
[16:30] Vivian Sporepress: anyway, over here in the Cruel Mound of Pluck I was attempting a full grid explore of the sector, my first such with the public bot. I even packed a lunch so I didn’t have to return home for that; but now it looks like the bot’s overall rep count simply ran out, and I don’t know how to resume the same grid rather than starting a new spiral from here
[16:31] Diana Coman: by public pooling/subscription I meant the case where the in-game value would have a corresponding pot of btc made public and publicly tradeable. Came to mind since it’s just about the only scenario I can currently see where there would be good reason and even required to make the overall sums clearly known and accountable publicly.
[16:33] Vivian Sporepress: on that worthless putrid leather supply, anyone can perhaps find similar now through my previous published map (the moony precipice being in the immediate outer ring from PPP)
[16:33] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-01-29 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, that change from one offs to patch of wpl sounds interesting, any hypothesis as to why/how come? I’ve found some more ords but they keep requiring rare resources that nobody found yet and then on top, quite a lot of them as my char reads that enum, too. So not much to do about it atm other than hope either someone finds those rare resources or Rainer Tracksnarl gets a shipment of ord bundles perhaps…
[16:33] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, that is indeed not implemented as such since it would require setting a whole set of new parameters to start a grid from some arbitrary point in it rather than the beginning. Fwiw I simply pick another point in the middle of some empty area and start a new grid there, I didn’t find it yet annoying enough to warrant the trouble of more parameters
[16:36] Vivian Sporepress: I could continue to fill the space at same interval by calculating new spiral centers.
[16:36] Diana Coman: exactly
[16:37] Vivian Sporepress: first I might need to get some visualization pipeline for the new knowledge format, to get something from the raw data.
[16:39] Diana Coman: fwiw I tend to give it quite large step sizes too at least in new places, since it has the double advantage of filling reasonably well the grid and keeping the total number of claims reasonable (given that owned items including claims will not vanish while the owner is nearby, the drunkmove or a gridmove with small step can easily end up with a ton of claims and thus getting bogged down by all that data)
[16:40] Vivian Sporepress: are there some existing tools that consume the res_sect_kw.txt format or are you further awking it or something?
[16:41] Vivian Sporepress: ah, yes you noted sh+awk, http://ossasepia.com/2026/01/11/euloran-exploration-2-0/#footnote_2_7056
[16:42] Vivian Sporepress: bogged down with data or even just keys, as you noted recently.
[16:42] Diana Coman: I have a single sh script that goes through all the data, produces the inputs for graphviz (one per sector) and then runs graphviz to get the .png files too
[16:42] Vivian Sporepress: gnuplot?
[16:43] Diana Coman: gnuplot indeed
[16:44] Diana Coman: at least out of this most recent unplanned trip I ended up with a bunch of data points in all those sectors on the way back to PPP and so the script got a better testing too, it produced the 16 pictures just fine, lolz
[16:46] Diana Coman: correction there: the sh script runs an awk script because there is one such and apparently I even forgot it was enough in there to warrant a separate file
[16:48] Diana Coman: basically the awk does the conversion from kw data to the format wanted by gnuplot, while sh handles the multi-sector, multi-file part
[16:50] Vivian Sporepress: right
[16:53] Vivian Sporepress: I started out in awk but ended up in python, plus a minimal .sh to run the gnuplot for the resulting data file for a given sector; but then, that was before the support of the client knowledge maps and required correlating a lot of data from distinct data change log messages.
[16:59] Diana Coman: this reminds me that I found the original awk textbook and it’s quite striking how it reads precisely like what python supposedly is meant to be for only it rarely is – a simple and very effective tool for scripting, prototyping and data conversion especially. Possibly the environment of each is in the end more the deciding factor as to how they (awk and python) ended up being what they are.
[17:02] Vivian Sporepress: perhaps python’s from a decade where “data conversion” meant accurately parsing email messages and csvs and jsons and whatnot, hence much more “batteries included”; but also clearly going for large-scale with the modula/ada style module system
[17:04] Diana Coman: for the record, the textbook I am talking about is “The AWK Programming Language” by Alfred V. Aho, Brian W. Kernighan and Peter J. Weinberger (my edition is 1988)
[17:05] Diana Coman: and to quote from its very preface, a description which I found to be absolutely and entirely true in practice even today: “The same brevity of expression and convenience of operations make awk valuable for prototyping larger programs. One starts with a few lines, then refines the program until it does the desired job, experimenting with designs by trying alternatives quickly. Since programs are short, it’s easy to get started, and easy to start over when experience suggests a different direction. And it’s straightforward to translate an awk program into another language once the design is right.”
[17:07] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, python got sucked into handling “everything” without any filter or restriction or even definition as to what that everything might be – and yes, exactly as the everything kind of exploded into all-possible-kitchen-sinks (and some impossible ones, too, for good measure).
[17:33] Raphael Nethersmell: basically, python had the unicode derpage baked in even before python3.
[17:37] Diana Coman: pretty much, yeah.
Day changed to 2026-02-03
[14:59] Felicia Solecrimp: omg the npcs are talking !
[14:59] Felicia Solecrimp: they can think !
[15:08] Diana Coman: it’s…possible, though not sure how would it go exactly, “I talk, therefore I think?”
[16:05] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, your linked resource map reminded me that there is one bit of info missing from the current kw resource data, namely the lbn q1 i.e. ‘nothing here’ (since the data collection looks for claims only)
Day changed to 2026-02-04
[15:58] Rainer Tracksnarl: Diana Coman, that’s worth about 8.6k shells more than what you’re offering.
[16:02] Rainer Tracksnarl: Ordinary bundles now available, freshly shipped in though in limited and uncertain supply – get them while they last!
[22:55] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 34.5k shells more than what you’re offering.
[22:58] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 8.6k shells more than what you’re offering.
[23:22] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 226 shells more than what you’re offering.
[23:45] Raphael Nethersmell: I’ve yet to find any ordinaries, but looks like the fomo is gonna cause me to invest. it’ll be hard to know of which resource I’ll find an ordinary, so gotta buy one of each just in case ? hm.
Day changed to 2026-02-05
[08:23] Diana Coman: possibly it depends on how one goes about it – if you go from what you are likely to find, that depends on where you go exploring so if you really want to find just x, the approach would be to explore where there is only x; if you go from what you might need/where the demand for resources might be, you’d look at their use and then basics kind of go into everything anyhow so yeah, possibly one-or-more-of-each is the conclusion anyway.
[16:47] Raphael Nethersmell: makse sense.
[16:50] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, another refinement on the economic reporting that occured to me this morning was adding mean & median per capita data for PCs and NPCs. I’m curious how I stack up compared to the average NPC. and reporting the mean & median will show the skewness of the populations.
[16:58] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, that is an interesting idea. How do you see though the different NPCs i.e. the service providers vs non-service providers? And in the longer-term the potential mob/wild npcs aka those attacking on sight rather than exploring?
[16:59] Diana Coman: a note on that increase for the NPCs from this latest economics report: part of it is a recycling of previous environmental damage into the new ord bundles.
[16:59] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-02-05 (Notices and Announcements) Ulrich Logfetch: ** Euloran economic activity during one month to day 00 of month 05, year 6 (era 1): PCs’ held value in items increased by 8`720 and their cash decreased by 2`793; NPCs’ held value in items increased by 1`394`023 and their cash increased by 2`793; environment value decreased by 418`476. All amounts are shown in Euloran Shell (10`000 Shells to 1 Copper). **
[17:05] Diana Coman: possibly of interest as a measure, the decrease in environment value is generally what PCs and NPCs together carved out of it one way or another at some point. On the other hand, what said PCs and NPCs managed to hold/make out of it would be the reported increase, so a sort of efficiency measure there, even if quite a rough one.
[18:33] Felicia Solecrimp: Wolfgang Middlesit where are you?
[18:33] Wolfgang Middlesit: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -22.86 99.87 -18.81 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[18:37] Felicia Solecrimp: my first awesome bought i have been working hard and i got my first own bought spicy mousaka
[18:37] Felicia Solecrimp: and I got 800 crumbly rock in one claim
[18:48] Diana Coman: oh hey, that 800 cr in one claim souns like a mini-pop, congrats Felicia Solecrimp!
[18:48] Diana Coman: enjoy the moussaka, it should get you a few euloran months respite iirc
[19:36] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, interesting re efficiency. wrt distinguishing npcs, the difference matter in terms of pcs interactions with them, but bottom line is the all need to eat. I expect some wil be more active than others. the first question when looking at the reported data that prompted the suggestion was, I have a good idea how many pcs there are, but well, how many NPCs are there actually ? i’m pretty sure there are some I’ve never glimpsed, especially the relatively little time i’ve spent in ppp.
[19:36] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, buen provecho !
[19:57] Raphael Nethersmell: like, approximately how much are V pcs getting ass kicked by npcs.
[02:41] Wolfgang Middlesit: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 18.6k shells more than what you’re offering.
[02:43] Wolfgang Middlesit: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 2.5k shells more than what you’re offering.
[02:46] Wolfgang Middlesit: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 61 shells more than what you’re offering.
[03:05] Raphael Nethersmell: pro tip I shared with Vivian Sporepress and might as well share w/ the log : if you’re building multiple claims of the same resource, you can load up the 10th slot in your inventory with however many enums you want*, as you ziggurate each claim, it’ll decrement the count by one. this saves you from having to click & cluck enums over to the 10th slot each run, which apart from saving you time & effort, saves server traffic.
[03:05] Raphael Nethersmell: *if there’s an upper limit, i’ve not found it yet.
[08:13] Diana Coman: well noted, Raphael Nethersmell and it works for any action that needs something in that slot, whether use or explore on whatever it is. The limit is likely only the maxint upper limit of what can go in a single stack.
[08:14] Diana Coman: meanwhile it turns out that my char ends up overbulk faster than overweight and with …grass of all things, huh.
[08:14] Diana Coman: apparently the trouble with keeping keys is that they are way bulkier than the corresponding lbn
[10:38] Diana Coman: talking on ziggurating claims, there is now available the bot zig job that goes through the keys in one’s inventory, picks one with a claim that is currently visible, with quality above given threshold and for which there is also the corresponding enum + bundle/ingredients, proceeds to the claim’s location, equips enum, moves ingredients to claim (using % as given), requests use on it, takes results from claim as it finds them.
[10:38] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-02-02 (Notices and Announcements) Monroe Quarterslit: ** Euloran news: newly deployed client adds bot zig and bot bundle jobs, as well as a visible warning when one’s own char in game is overweight or overbulk (as the client knows it at the time). While the new zig job is known to handle successfuly all the intricacies of ziggurating claims, perfection does not exist and how effective and/or efficient it may prove to be for one player or another depends as well on how well the player understands what they are doing and thus how well they put it to use. So now that there is at least one automation available for each of the more intricate in-game activities, the question is: what will PCs do with it all?**
[10:42] Diana Coman: obviously, given the number and intricacies of steps in there, it’s quite the job and there are plenty of things that can go wrong – on occasion they do go wrong, too! Generally from the relatively short-time (couple of days) testing I got to put it through, it recovers by itself just fine, only it can take a while/end up repeatedly moving stuff back and forth – so if you do mean to use it, it’s probably best to see how it works in your specific setup and then figure out what parameter values and even what sequence of jobs works best for what you want from it (e.g. since ziggurating needs a lot of info on a claim to be able to work with it, it might not be able to start on a freshly explored new claim straight away)
[10:45] Diana Coman: making better (best?) use of things as they are though is quite the nature of the game and where the difference can be made by any player without needing to start or know programming, so let me know if you give it a try.
[10:46] Diana Coman: for the record, the bundle job does exactly what you’d expect, namely aims to make bundles only, in whatever container is set as target when you start the job. Both bundle and zig actually read the blueprint/method so they’ll keep working even if/when the counts change on it.
[12:53] Diana Coman: a note to mind perhaps the location of claims when zig+explore, esp when relatively close to sector border (coming to you from my rather unintended trip to the faraway Barmy Crossing of Madness (some 16 sectors south of PPP according to the handy clientside map, way past that Fertile Knoll of Friskiness)
[15:14] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, sounds great re zigg’d botting, I’ve updated my client and will try it out later tonight.
[15:24] Diana Coman: cheers.
[16:10] Vivian Sporepress: Diana Coman: spiffy economic reporting from Monroe Quarterslit. just that seeing the deltas now makes me wonder about the opening positions. poor environment… at least it’s big, or so it appears so far
[16:14] Vivian Sporepress: hearing of the NPC’s cash decreasing and so forth makes me wonder, do they have some limited initial pile of it? or can they just go arbitrarily negative if people keep selling stuff to the merchants?
[16:15] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, good to know, thanks. The deltas are literally the result as noticed at that monthly measurement. Why exactly wondering about the opening positions as such? Kind of iffy from a privacy pov to make these public.
[16:17] Diana Coman: well, in the widest sense, keeping all euloran economy meaningful and ticking is part of my job as world-maintainer so I do keep an eye on all these things. In the immediate, you noticed perhaps that an NPC out of cash will say so and refuse the trade since he can’t match it, there is no magicking anything out of thin air.
[16:18] Diana Coman: in general terms, value may get perhaps recycled when/if/as needed but not just created out of nothing.
[16:19] Vivian Sporepress: I suppose one can look at how long the game’s been going and extrapolate to get some rough idea of the totals based on the unreported months. yeah, I don’t know if it’s wisest to publish the totals, it just came to mind to give more context to the changes, or more meaning to the monetary amounts, like knowing the total btc supply limit
[16:20] Diana Coman: heh, more knowledge is always wanted but rarely available just for that reason, certainly
[16:20] Diana Coman: I’m pondering whether a total of amount traded might be added to these reports at some point but it’s not yet top of the list anyhow
[16:21] Vivian Sporepress: I saw some having trouble making change at least with Wolfgang Middlesit, but no such with Rainer Tracksnarl
[16:22] Diana Coman: for the record, one case in which I can see a reason to make the total btc supply limit known and public would be perhaps if there is a public pooling of such btc i.e. literally public subscription
[16:23] Diana Coman: every NPC has his/her limits, even if some may be larger than others!
[16:25] Vivian Sporepress: what do you mean about a public pooling/subscription? I mentioned btc as an example, knowing it’s not directly involved here
[16:26] Vivian Sporepress: and makes sense about limits; iirc Rainer Tracksnarl had at most 9999 of any given item
[16:26] Vivian Sporepress: (or maybe 10k even)
[16:30] Vivian Sporepress: anyway, over here in the Cruel Mound of Pluck I was attempting a full grid explore of the sector, my first such with the public bot. I even packed a lunch so I didn’t have to return home for that; but now it looks like the bot’s overall rep count simply ran out, and I don’t know how to resume the same grid rather than starting a new spiral from here
[16:31] Diana Coman: by public pooling/subscription I meant the case where the in-game value would have a corresponding pot of btc made public and publicly tradeable. Came to mind since it’s just about the only scenario I can currently see where there would be good reason and even required to make the overall sums clearly known and accountable publicly.
[16:33] Vivian Sporepress: on that worthless putrid leather supply, anyone can perhaps find similar now through my previous published map (the moony precipice being in the immediate outer ring from PPP)
[16:33] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-01-29 (Eulora 2) Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, that change from one offs to patch of wpl sounds interesting, any hypothesis as to why/how come? I’ve found some more ords but they keep requiring rare resources that nobody found yet and then on top, quite a lot of them as my char reads that enum, too. So not much to do about it atm other than hope either someone finds those rare resources or Rainer Tracksnarl gets a shipment of ord bundles perhaps…
[16:33] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, ah, that is indeed not implemented as such since it would require setting a whole set of new parameters to start a grid from some arbitrary point in it rather than the beginning. Fwiw I simply pick another point in the middle of some empty area and start a new grid there, I didn’t find it yet annoying enough to warrant the trouble of more parameters
[16:36] Vivian Sporepress: I could continue to fill the space at same interval by calculating new spiral centers.
[16:36] Diana Coman: exactly
[16:37] Vivian Sporepress: first I might need to get some visualization pipeline for the new knowledge format, to get something from the raw data.
[16:39] Diana Coman: fwiw I tend to give it quite large step sizes too at least in new places, since it has the double advantage of filling reasonably well the grid and keeping the total number of claims reasonable (given that owned items including claims will not vanish while the owner is nearby, the drunkmove or a gridmove with small step can easily end up with a ton of claims and thus getting bogged down by all that data)
[16:40] Vivian Sporepress: are there some existing tools that consume the res_sect_kw.txt format or are you further awking it or something?
[16:41] Vivian Sporepress: ah, yes you noted sh+awk, http://ossasepia.com/2026/01/11/euloran-exploration-2-0/#footnote_2_7056
[16:42] Vivian Sporepress: bogged down with data or even just keys, as you noted recently.
[16:42] Diana Coman: I have a single sh script that goes through all the data, produces the inputs for graphviz (one per sector) and then runs graphviz to get the .png files too
[16:42] Vivian Sporepress: gnuplot?
[16:43] Diana Coman: gnuplot indeed
[16:44] Diana Coman: at least out of this most recent unplanned trip I ended up with a bunch of data points in all those sectors on the way back to PPP and so the script got a better testing too, it produced the 16 pictures just fine, lolz
[16:46] Diana Coman: correction there: the sh script runs an awk script because there is one such and apparently I even forgot it was enough in there to warrant a separate file
[16:48] Diana Coman: basically the awk does the conversion from kw data to the format wanted by gnuplot, while sh handles the multi-sector, multi-file part
[16:50] Vivian Sporepress: right
[16:53] Vivian Sporepress: I started out in awk but ended up in python, plus a minimal .sh to run the gnuplot for the resulting data file for a given sector; but then, that was before the support of the client knowledge maps and required correlating a lot of data from distinct data change log messages.
[16:59] Diana Coman: this reminds me that I found the original awk textbook and it’s quite striking how it reads precisely like what python supposedly is meant to be for only it rarely is – a simple and very effective tool for scripting, prototyping and data conversion especially. Possibly the environment of each is in the end more the deciding factor as to how they (awk and python) ended up being what they are.
[17:02] Vivian Sporepress: perhaps python’s from a decade where “data conversion” meant accurately parsing email messages and csvs and jsons and whatnot, hence much more “batteries included”; but also clearly going for large-scale with the modula/ada style module system
[17:04] Diana Coman: for the record, the textbook I am talking about is “The AWK Programming Language” by Alfred V. Aho, Brian W. Kernighan and Peter J. Weinberger (my edition is 1988)
[17:05] Diana Coman: and to quote from its very preface, a description which I found to be absolutely and entirely true in practice even today: “The same brevity of expression and convenience of operations make awk valuable for prototyping larger programs. One starts with a few lines, then refines the program until it does the desired job, experimenting with designs by trying alternatives quickly. Since programs are short, it’s easy to get started, and easy to start over when experience suggests a different direction. And it’s straightforward to translate an awk program into another language once the design is right.”
[17:07] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, python got sucked into handling “everything” without any filter or restriction or even definition as to what that everything might be – and yes, exactly as the everything kind of exploded into all-possible-kitchen-sinks (and some impossible ones, too, for good measure).
[17:33] Raphael Nethersmell: basically, python had the unicode derpage baked in even before python3.
[17:37] Diana Coman: pretty much, yeah.
Day changed to 2026-02-03
[14:59] Felicia Solecrimp: omg the npcs are talking !
[14:59] Felicia Solecrimp: they can think !
[15:08] Diana Coman: it’s…possible, though not sure how would it go exactly, “I talk, therefore I think?”
[16:05] Diana Coman: Vivian Sporepress, your linked resource map reminded me that there is one bit of info missing from the current kw resource data, namely the lbn q1 i.e. ‘nothing here’ (since the data collection looks for claims only)
Day changed to 2026-02-04
[15:58] Rainer Tracksnarl: Diana Coman, that’s worth about 8.6k shells more than what you’re offering.
[16:02] Rainer Tracksnarl: Ordinary bundles now available, freshly shipped in though in limited and uncertain supply – get them while they last!
[22:55] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 34.5k shells more than what you’re offering.
[22:58] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 8.6k shells more than what you’re offering.
[23:22] Rainer Tracksnarl: Raphael Nethersmell, that’s worth about 226 shells more than what you’re offering.
[23:45] Raphael Nethersmell: I’ve yet to find any ordinaries, but looks like the fomo is gonna cause me to invest. it’ll be hard to know of which resource I’ll find an ordinary, so gotta buy one of each just in case ? hm.
Day changed to 2026-02-05
[08:23] Diana Coman: possibly it depends on how one goes about it – if you go from what you are likely to find, that depends on where you go exploring so if you really want to find just x, the approach would be to explore where there is only x; if you go from what you might need/where the demand for resources might be, you’d look at their use and then basics kind of go into everything anyhow so yeah, possibly one-or-more-of-each is the conclusion anyway.
[16:47] Raphael Nethersmell: makse sense.
[16:50] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, another refinement on the economic reporting that occured to me this morning was adding mean & median per capita data for PCs and NPCs. I’m curious how I stack up compared to the average NPC. and reporting the mean & median will show the skewness of the populations.
[16:58] Diana Coman: Raphael Nethersmell, that is an interesting idea. How do you see though the different NPCs i.e. the service providers vs non-service providers? And in the longer-term the potential mob/wild npcs aka those attacking on sight rather than exploring?
[16:59] Diana Coman: a note on that increase for the NPCs from this latest economics report: part of it is a recycling of previous environmental damage into the new ord bundles.
[16:59] Ulrich Logfetch: Quoting 2026-02-05 (Notices and Announcements) Ulrich Logfetch: ** Euloran economic activity during one month to day 00 of month 05, year 6 (era 1): PCs’ held value in items increased by 8`720 and their cash decreased by 2`793; NPCs’ held value in items increased by 1`394`023 and their cash increased by 2`793; environment value decreased by 418`476. All amounts are shown in Euloran Shell (10`000 Shells to 1 Copper). **
[17:05] Diana Coman: possibly of interest as a measure, the decrease in environment value is generally what PCs and NPCs together carved out of it one way or another at some point. On the other hand, what said PCs and NPCs managed to hold/make out of it would be the reported increase, so a sort of efficiency measure there, even if quite a rough one.
[18:33] Felicia Solecrimp: Wolfgang Middlesit where are you?
[18:33] Wolfgang Middlesit: Felicia Solecrimp, I am currently at -22.86 99.87 -18.81 in Preposterously Prosperous Place
[18:37] Felicia Solecrimp: my first awesome bought i have been working hard and i got my first own bought spicy mousaka
[18:37] Felicia Solecrimp: and I got 800 crumbly rock in one claim
[18:48] Diana Coman: oh hey, that 800 cr in one claim souns like a mini-pop, congrats Felicia Solecrimp!
[18:48] Diana Coman: enjoy the moussaka, it should get you a few euloran months respite iirc
[19:36] Raphael Nethersmell: Diana Coman, interesting re efficiency. wrt distinguishing npcs, the difference matter in terms of pcs interactions with them, but bottom line is the all need to eat. I expect some wil be more active than others. the first question when looking at the reported data that prompted the suggestion was, I have a good idea how many pcs there are, but well, how many NPCs are there actually ? i’m pretty sure there are some I’ve never glimpsed, especially the relatively little time i’ve spent in ppp.
[19:36] Raphael Nethersmell: Felicia Solecrimp, buen provecho !
[19:57] Raphael Nethersmell: like, approximately how much are V pcs getting ass kicked by npcs.